Parties unite for £1 billion drive in Bradford! (From Bradford Telegraph and Argus)

what a waste of time!!

please concentrate on living in the real world ... or is there "fact finding" trips to be had!

WE WANT A SAFE CITY CENTRE THAT SAFE AND HAS A FEW SHOPS OPEN!!!

This would be fantastic for the City, but I don't think many are building their hopes up unfortunately

With over 2 weeks to go to the decision, instead of building up the hopes of the locals, please T & A just be quiet and make a big fuss if we get the Enterprise Zone; the last thing we need is everyone being hyped up, just to be let down again.
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Irrespective of this bid there is a lot of work that needs doing to fix this city and the councillors should be encouraged to get on with that rather than writing daily press releases.

i quote, "provident financial and premier inn things looking up"
a debt forming company and cheap hotel which we have plenty of and nobody visits bradford to use!
hardly going to draw the crowds in.
as already mentioned, t&a should keep it quiet till some concrete news.

Why not turn some empty shops back in to living accommodation ? that could support other nearby shops, if shops are constantly empty then we have too many shops, basic common sense, a lot of shopping is out of town, this is a fact we need to learn to live with, the city could not accommodate the car and over zealous traffic wardens have driven people away with honey trap parking bay markings, once bitten twice shy.
The answer we have a housing crisis and empty buildings in the centre, 2 birds, 1 stone, the management speak is joined up thinking...

Instead of being hyper of another pipe-dream project, maybe they should should all get together and find ways of suing Westfield or imposing fines. Westfield have just left a hole in the middle of the city which makes it less attractive to other businesses. If a company like Westfield refuse to build there then why should other companies set up business in Bradford?

I still cannot believe they just let Westfield have full reign over this project, have the council even explained why they agreed to that?! Or maybe the council if purposely making Bradford less attractive so that the value of the property decreases and they can buy it it back for less.

Are the council just going to level the entire city centre under the dreams of a better city, then realise they dont even have the funds to build a shed?

bigo93 wrote:
Instead of being hyper of another pipe-dream project, maybe they should should all get together and find ways of suing Westfield or imposing fines. Westfield have just left a hole in the middle of the city which makes it less attractive to other businesses. If a company like Westfield refuse to build there then why should other companies set up business in Bradford?

I still cannot believe they just let Westfield have full reign over this project, have the council even explained why they agreed to that?! Or maybe the council if purposely making Bradford less attractive so that the value of the property decreases and they can buy it it back for less.

Are the council just going to level the entire city centre under the dreams of a better city, then realise they dont even have the funds to build a shed?

I think the reason "why" is that another developer had the contract and then dropped out, so the council (very unwisely) allowed Westfield to go without penalties and clauses, presumably through desperation.

Albion. wrote:

bigo93 wrote:
Instead of being hyper of another pipe-dream project, maybe they should should all get together and find ways of suing Westfield or imposing fines. Westfield have just left a hole in the middle of the city which makes it less attractive to other businesses. If a company like Westfield refuse to build there then why should other companies set up business in Bradford?

I still cannot believe they just let Westfield have full reign over this project, have the council even explained why they agreed to that?! Or maybe the council if purposely making Bradford less attractive so that the value of the property decreases and they can buy it it back for less.

Are the council just going to level the entire city centre under the dreams of a better city, then realise they dont even have the funds to build a shed?

I think the reason "why" is that another developer had the contract and then dropped out, so the council (very unwisely) allowed Westfield to go without penalties and clauses, presumably through desperation.

This link explains it better!

http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/Westfield_B
radford

This link explains it even far better.
.
http://tiny.cc/03gtv

Moon on a stick wrote:
This link explains it even far better.
.
http://tiny.cc/03gtv

Nice one!

Moon on a stick wrote:
This link explains it even far better.
.
http://tiny.cc/03gtv

Oh, that is WONDERFUL! A real labour of love!
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*can't possibly think of who would write such a scurrilous piece..*
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Shouldn't someone run off a few hard copies and leave a stack of them inside the door of City Hall (and shove a few under Barra Mac's door for good measure)? Just a thought.

here we go again. bright ideas that will never get off the mark.
keep dreaming bradford council. sorry jokeford council.
they really do make me laugh.

Why bother? What'll happen to the nay-sayers and terminal whingers on here if you manage to pull it off?
Please give some consideration to these self-pitying doom-mongers. They have feelings too. Mainly inadequacy but feelings nonetheless!

Could someone please explain where the last handout of govt regeneration money reported at was it,1 or 2 Billion pounds went?Are we likely to get any more when you see the total lack of value for money in how that last expensive gift was squandered.
Where did it all go?In demolition costs?And is the reason we need more to complete the demolition?And flood the central pudding bowl so we can all swim for a living.Doubt Bradford will get anything when the record of mismanagement is analysed.Is Dave Green in cuckoo?He certainly does"nt look like he would inspire great men to invest.
Has anyone noticed what the Leeds road improvements and I use the term loosely,have had the effect of?
Eastbrook Hall standing magnificent but still economically inactive like most of the inner city residents.
The ships hull looking unfinished and economically inactive(I think bankrupt is the word)
So what this all about Mr Green?More of the same.Insane capital projects with no proper plan,no prospective tennants(cos you cant find them for your last round of capital projects)
Regeneration funding is meant to come from central funding with the aim of job creation.You live in cuckoo.

To quote Barack OB: Yes We can!

It was once opined Bradford could draw comparison with Chicago; a vastly diverse district where modernisation has elevated the status.

Besides having a team bearing the hallmark of 'Bulls', little else seems worthy of resemblance.

What does Bradford need ?, well, the removal of the hole, but how.

Building a vast mall isn't entirely practical nor economic for most retailers today. Our illustrious neighbour - and Parent Representative, being Leeds City Region - has numerous shopping quarters, however, besides the thriving few, they've created one too many, resulting in 'white elephants' that house few retailers and don't offer much back to the city.

Westfield has demoralised Bradford for too long; it should be the case they reimburse it that vice versa.

One of the key reasons for there being spars retailers wanting to sign up may well be in conjuction with many focusing solely on mail, or e-mail, order.

This project, much like Arndale did no less, could pioneer the way forward in commerce and retail should operate this country.

Many businesses could follow the M&S mould; use Bradford as the strategic trade point it is, and thrive.

It would be immense to have a company with its offices, online commerce together with a shop front in one building, or block.

The New World has seen, with the inception of the internet, a soar in sole traders and long-distance trading, and Bradford itself has many.

A project like this will enable the smaller fish to take their place in the sea, or stake their claim to a wider audience, by offering the services it has inspired.

The very fact all parties have come together in agreement shows this iniative has every chance to prosper.

Bradford is in West Yorkshire, a historical Northern City that has a catchment area transcending Leeds, and even West Riding.

If it wasn't Westfield, Yorkshire Forward or some other non-native oracle reversing the progression of development, it was the lack of a local voice, that has now found sound, becoming loud, resonating widely.

To coin the new sponsor of Bradford City: Just do it!

rugger-tyke wrote:
To quote Barack OB: Yes We can! It was once opined Bradford could draw comparison with Chicago; a vastly diverse district where modernisation has elevated the status. Besides having a team bearing the hallmark of 'Bulls', little else seems worthy of resemblance. What does Bradford need ?, well, the removal of the hole, but how. Building a vast mall isn't entirely practical nor economic for most retailers today. Our illustrious neighbour - and Parent Representative, being Leeds City Region - has numerous shopping quarters, however, besides the thriving few, they've created one too many, resulting in 'white elephants' that house few retailers and don't offer much back to the city. Westfield has demoralised Bradford for too long; it should be the case they reimburse it that vice versa. One of the key reasons for there being spars retailers wanting to sign up may well be in conjuction with many focusing solely on mail, or e-mail, order. This project, much like Arndale did no less, could pioneer the way forward in commerce and retail should operate this country. Many businesses could follow the M&S mould; use Bradford as the strategic trade point it is, and thrive. It would be immense to have a company with its offices, online commerce together with a shop front in one building, or block. The New World has seen, with the inception of the internet, a soar in sole traders and long-distance trading, and Bradford itself has many. A project like this will enable the smaller fish to take their place in the sea, or stake their claim to a wider audience, by offering the services it has inspired. The very fact all parties have come together in agreement shows this iniative has every chance to prosper. Bradford is in West Yorkshire, a historical Northern City that has a catchment area transcending Leeds, and even West Riding. If it wasn't Westfield, Yorkshire Forward or some other non-native oracle reversing the progression of development, it was the lack of a local voice, that has now found sound, becoming loud, resonating widely. To coin the new sponsor of Bradford City: Just do it!

Yes I quite agree Westfield is not needed in the planned form.The future of retail is online.bradford used to have strength in the old maanner of shopping with empire and grattan.That is the future and regretabbly so are the white roses,trafford and meadowhalls.The tennants earmarked for westfield are all now tied in to probably pretty serious leases in FS retail park.
crossrail,independen
ts and one big company as you suggest been encouraged to take up residence.
No more squandering of regen money on ridiculous public sector projects.
That do nothing to create wealth.
The cross rail link if it had ever been implemented when it should have been ma well have stemmed the city decline.
But as for modernisation,i remain sceptical.Having seen the city destroyed in the 60"s and again through the last 15 years.
bland rubbish that probably won design awards when built.Some (such as National Provincial building,central police station etc)that failed to survive even 30 years.
The Huddersfield and Bradford BS building next to John Street Market stands proud as a boil but was probably deemed iconic back in 1970.
They do not stand the test of time.
So why cover Little Germany up again for more of the some when the whole future of the high street is under threat through modern means provided to get things to people direct from home.
All children today will be shopping that way.they are brought up with the understanding at early age of the computer and the digi revolution.
We are dinasours and should be planning for our childrens future not trying to create models of the old way.
And it is those technologies and companies that we should be targeting

Moon on a stick wrote:
This link explains it even far better.
.
http://tiny.cc/03gtv

Lol!! - that is brilliant :D

Moon on a stick wrote:
This link explains it even far better.
.
http://tiny.cc/03gtv

BTW, Chris Morris would be proud :D

I think you're right about the future of some retail sectors being online though I'll never buy dresses or shoes over the internet because I want to try them on to see if they fit properly and can't be bothered ordering them, only to have to send them back.
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I disagree though that the future is also at Meadowhall and White Rose etc - I think as we move through the second decade of the 21st century, these huge American-style monoliths will fall from favour as fuel becomes more expensive, and as people reclaim their city centres.
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I want a reason to come into town - I want more food shops in the centre; a proper delicatessen, a wholefood shop, an organic weigh n' save like they have in Bristol. I want a proper veg market like we used to have before Rawson shut and I want a fish market. I want to be able to do my shopping in town again - and while I'm there, I'll be browsing shops for presents and gifts, buying birthday cards rather than having to select one from the limited range at the supermarket, having a cuppa in a cafe - and probably lunch too.
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Town centres should be cheap, cheerful, bustling places. The downfall of Bradford started when they killed the markets and was compounded by destroying Broadway. I'd say that heads should roll, but the ones responsible have already left.
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Incidentally, Margaret 'photo-opportunity' Eaton should show more wisdom when talking to the national media. Blaming the expense that local councils charged to credit cards on the Labour government...? Very unwise, Meg. Shall we look at your record and the awful legacy of your Tory-led council before you start throwing stones...?
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Please can we have our city back, someone?

arhmen aleg wrote:

rugger-tyke wrote:
To quote Barack OB: Yes We can! It was once opined Bradford could draw comparison with Chicago; a vastly diverse district where modernisation has elevated the status. Besides having a team bearing the hallmark of 'Bulls', little else seems worthy of resemblance. What does Bradford need ?, well, the removal of the hole, but how. Building a vast mall isn't entirely practical nor economic for most retailers today. Our illustrious neighbour - and Parent Representative, being Leeds City Region - has numerous shopping quarters, however, besides the thriving few, they've created one too many, resulting in 'white elephants' that house few retailers and don't offer much back to the city. Westfield has demoralised Bradford for too long; it should be the case they reimburse it that vice versa. One of the key reasons for there being spars retailers wanting to sign up may well be in conjuction with many focusing solely on mail, or e-mail, order. This project, much like Arndale did no less, could pioneer the way forward in commerce and retail should operate this country. Many businesses could follow the M&S mould; use Bradford as the strategic trade point it is, and thrive. It would be immense to have a company with its offices, online commerce together with a shop front in one building, or block. The New World has seen, with the inception of the internet, a soar in sole traders and long-distance trading, and Bradford itself has many. A project like this will enable the smaller fish to take their place in the sea, or stake their claim to a wider audience, by offering the services it has inspired. The very fact all parties have come together in agreement shows this iniative has every chance to prosper. Bradford is in West Yorkshire, a historical Northern City that has a catchment area transcending Leeds, and even West Riding. If it wasn't Westfield, Yorkshire Forward or some other non-native oracle reversing the progression of development, it was the lack of a local voice, that has now found sound, becoming loud, resonating widely. To coin the new sponsor of Bradford City: Just do it!

Yes I quite agree Westfield is not needed in the planned form.The future of retail is online.bradford used to have strength in the old maanner of shopping with empire and grattan.That is the future and regretabbly so are the white roses,trafford and meadowhalls.The tennants earmarked for westfield are all now tied in to probably pretty serious leases in FS retail park.
crossrail,independen

ts and one big company as you suggest been encouraged to take up residence.
No more squandering of regen money on ridiculous public sector projects.
That do nothing to create wealth.
The cross rail link if it had ever been implemented when it should have been ma well have stemmed the city decline.
But as for modernisation,i remain sceptical.Having seen the city destroyed in the 60"s and again through the last 15 years.
bland rubbish that probably won design awards when built.Some (such as National Provincial building,central police station etc)that failed to survive even 30 years.
The Huddersfield and Bradford BS building next to John Street Market stands proud as a boil but was probably deemed iconic back in 1970.
They do not stand the test of time.
So why cover Little Germany up again for more of the some when the whole future of the high street is under threat through modern means provided to get things to people direct from home.
All children today will be shopping that way.they are brought up with the understanding at early age of the computer and the digi revolution.
We are dinasours and should be planning for our childrens future not trying to create models of the old way.
And it is those technologies and companies that we should be targeting

Sorry, my last comment was directed at arhmen aleg..

Indeed, Mrs Walker.

Rawson Market is still there, just been left dormant; perhaps that should be where the regeneration starts - Leeds Market gathers accolades even in the age we live in, only because it was maintained and encouraged.

Oastler Market just seems redundant in today's climate, especially in Bradford, Where Kirkgate/Arndale has had sufficient space for the sole-traders, that's footwear and independent and larger retailers.
Maybe Morrisons, given they're the current tenant, should consider making it a proper supermarket and expand from the format it currently has.
There's been new fascias applied but the builiding is still an eyesore and the interior of Morrisons itself has been refurbished, but the market is seriously outdated.

We don't even need the hyper malls such as White-Rose et al, as they're simply Arndales with their own Moorish Alhambra architecture on the outskirts of the centre, there to simply create a 'tourist destination'.

Again, you're suggestion of properly linked transport systems would propel the recovery of this City hugely.

Sheffield is where the future of local transport-links already exists. The Steel City has an outrageously efficient Tram System, and in the era where electricity has the technology to be created from water, wind and solar, seems like the obvious solution to an archaic and sluggish Bus service - though again, Transdev would certainly shake up the status quo here.

Newquest: please integrate an edit system!.

Indeed, Mrs Walker.

Rawson Market is still there, just been left dormant; perhaps that should be where the regeneration starts - Leeds Market gathers accolades even in the age we live in, only because it was maintained and encouraged.

Oastler Market just seems redundant in today's climate, especially in Bradford, Where Kirkgate/Arndale has had sufficient space for the sole-traders, that's footwear and independent plus the larger retailers.
Maybe Morrisons, given they're the current tenant, should consider making it a proper supermarket and expand from the format it currently has.
There's been new fascias applied but the builiding is still an eyesore and the interior of Morrisons itself has been refurbished, but the market is seriously outdated.

We don't even need the hyper malls such as White-Rose et al, as they're simply Arndales with their own Moorish Alhambra architecture on the outskirts of the centre, there to simply create a 'tourist destination'.

Again, your suggestion of properly linked transport systems would propel the recovery of this City hugely.

Sheffield is where the future of local transport-links already exists. The Steel City has an outrageously efficient Tram System, and in the era where electricity has the technology to be created from water, wind and solar, seems like the obvious solution to an archaic and sluggish Bus service - though again, Transdev would certainly shake up the status quo here.

mrs walker wrote:
I think you're right about the future of some retail sectors being online though I'll never buy dresses or shoes over the internet because I want to try them on to see if they fit properly and can't be bothered ordering them, only to have to send them back. . I disagree though that the future is also at Meadowhall and White Rose etc - I think as we move through the second decade of the 21st century, these huge American-style monoliths will fall from favour as fuel becomes more expensive, and as people reclaim their city centres. . I want a reason to come into town - I want more food shops in the centre; a proper delicatessen, a wholefood shop, an organic weigh n' save like they have in Bristol. I want a proper veg market like we used to have before Rawson shut and I want a fish market. I want to be able to do my shopping in town again - and while I'm there, I'll be browsing shops for presents and gifts, buying birthday cards rather than having to select one from the limited range at the supermarket, having a cuppa in a cafe - and probably lunch too. . Town centres should be cheap, cheerful, bustling places. The downfall of Bradford started when they killed the markets and was compounded by destroying Broadway. I'd say that heads should roll, but the ones responsible have already left. . Incidentally, Margaret 'photo-opportunity' Eaton should show more wisdom when talking to the national media. Blaming the expense that local councils charged to credit cards on the Labour government...? Very unwise, Meg. Shall we look at your record and the awful legacy of your Tory-led council before you start throwing stones...? . Please can we have our city back, someone?

I mourn the popularity of the super shop malls.
i forgot The westfield hole is not the first promised improvement.
Rawson Market closed never redeveloped as promised a temp market built at significant cost now lying empty and decaying.
A wonderful Rawson structure destroyed.A bland mechanno building rotting.
A few fish stalls and butchers that mix uncomfortably in John Street Market where the sewer system consistently blocks probably as a consequence.
Where will the mismanagement of the peoples assets end.
I quite agree that the City needs more but I doubt the footfall will ever to return.
Why can the council not set up a cleaner Bradford partnership.
probably because they know they do not have the capability to manage such a scheme.
whats wrong with Ala New York style taking prisoners,offenders,
beggars and the economically inactive but capable of work,into such a scheme to actually present a clean city.
Just how low it has got,yesterday I ventured to the Arndale with my daughter.Bradford was filth everywhere.
Picking up on another threads post about the cleansiness of WH smith I paid it a visit from the Kirgate side.
In a no smoke building I observed 16 discarded tab ends on the carpet which in itself did not look as if it had been cleaned in a decade.
I commented to the sole member of staff that never had I seen such a filfthy store and to think this was WH Smith.
The place is disgracefull.
So just why cannot all these who take so much from our benefit system be made to do a month or at least weeks work cleaning this filfthy hole.Unemployed people are meant to have to do work trials afer a certain time on the dole.
So why does the council not engage them through a proper scheme and get this disgusting S*** hole thouroughly cleaned and disinfected.
Before we return to the cholera infested Bradford of 170 years ago.
I am truly ashamed and if any deputation of sort after investors were taken on a walk tour of this once proud city,they would run a hundred miles,convinced the place had no pride,no future and no idea.
People were poor in the past but would never stoop to allow personal cleansiness to plummet.Steps were always scrubbed and whitewashed.
Anyway this is stating to rant but it makes me very angry to be paying £24 million for a waterpark when 99 percent of the city is covered and occupied by S***e

rugger-tyke wrote:
Indeed, Mrs Walker. Rawson Market is still there, just been left dormant; perhaps that should be where the regeneration starts - Leeds Market gathers accolades even in the age we live in, only because it was maintained and encouraged. Oastler Market just seems redundant in today's climate, especially in Bradford, Where Kirkgate/Arndale has had sufficient space for the sole-traders, that's footwear and independent and larger retailers. Maybe Morrisons, given they're the current tenant, should consider making it a proper supermarket and expand from the format it currently has. There's been new fascias applied but the builiding is still an eyesore and the interior of Morrisons itself has been refurbished, but the market is seriously outdated. We don't even need the hyper malls such as White-Rose et al, as they're simply Arndales with their own Moorish Alhambra architecture on the outskirts of the centre, there to simply create a 'tourist destination'. Again, you're suggestion of properly linked transport systems would propel the recovery of this City hugely. Sheffield is where the future of local transport-links already exists. The Steel City has an outrageously efficient Tram System, and in the era where electricity has the technology to be created from water, wind and solar, seems like the obvious solution to an archaic and sluggish Bus service - though again, Transdev would certainly shake up the status quo here.

Whist observing your comment we do not need the hyper malls(and I am no fan)in any capitalist society we are driven to supply based on demand.
On the occasions I have been forced(by my young retail therapy inspired daughter)to venture to WR or Meadowhall I became dizzy at the sheer volumne of people.I felt claustrophobic but truly amazed at the sheer numbers.
I walked round New Look in arndale yeasterday and counted about 20 browsers and in the short 20 mins there hardly any queing to pay.
Sadly the people speak with their brass and the big developers are simply not going to put brass where they know there will be no or little return.The supermalls are the future sadly for now as witnessed by there popularity.It is demand that governs supply and the people in majority seem to prefer this way to shop.
They can park get all there shopping to a near car.Have big trollys to assist.
Its not for me but it appears to be what the people or large masses of them want now.
You cannot make people alter lifestyle and choice.
I see little point in a Westfield.All High Streets are suffering so what hope has Bradford,where it has in reality dissapeared.
All the left and existing business are unable to profit which is neccessary to stay open.
Bankruptcy and closing business that have been there for generations is the evidence of that.Close or be ruined.
A new cafe in John Street Market that serves excellent fayre is already experiencing financial difficulties and is likely to close.Where will it all end?

The out of town malls you mention were built when oil was less than $30 a barrel. It's nearly quadrupled since then. The impact of fuel prices on people's willingness to travel should not be underestimated.
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While Bradford has its problems - and yes there are many - salvaging the city centre is not impossible. However, in order to achieve it, we need to bring shops back into use by cutting rent and rates for key services and products - and subsidising them if necessary for a fixed period so that it doesn't cost the shopkeeper to operate here; overhaul the markets and cut rent and rates for stall-holders there too. Other services that aren't deemed necessary (bookies and crossbow sellers come to mind) should pay double.. ;-)
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Most people wouldn't usually come into town regularly to go to one shop - it needs to be a whole experience, and Bradford can create that experience. However, our leaders need to be brave and offer shops incentives to set up here. They also need to stop granting planning permission for the huge supermarkets that are springing up around the ring road. We've got enough Asdas and Tescos thank you very much.
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Other towns and cities that are smaller and poorer than Bradford have managed to thrive. We should be able to as well.

In my heart I want to agree with you,that the town is recoverable.
I was talking to the journalist Jim greenhalf.We pointed to saltaire.
One man Johnathan Silver took that dump as it was under council control 22 years ago.It was held by the council under some regen title like Bradford Economic Enterprise Units.
It had been dixided up in the cheapest nasty way with bits of plywood partition everywhere.
You only have to visit today to see that if one man can acheive that what could be done.
But not with a council in the lead of such a process because they are incompetent.
they would never have listened to johnathan with their patronising attitude that they know best and he was just some jew boy trying to make a few bob.That is the mentality of these idiots who find power goes to their head.
They are incompetent themselves and do not even have the brains to stop a city been demolished without proper redress against the developer for failure to complete within a timescale.
how much footfall and business has been lost these last 8 years from all those former occupied properties and their employees now gone forever.
central House housed the IRevenue,Arndale House Legal General,I could go on and on.
It has been a complete and utter balls up.
And now we seek 1 billion from the govt to put these failures right.
Well i suppose we should not be suprised if they turn to our council and said,you"ve messed it up once we wont trust you with a fiver to go get your granny some milk from the shops.
They are financially incompetent,impotent and would be totally clueless to take the city any further.
Of course party politics also interfere with development and it interesting to see your comments about M.eaton.quick as they all are to pass the blame for this or that to labour or anyone as long as its not them.
What is really needed are stocks outside the Town Hall.Then we can drag them kicking and screaming from their ivory towers to await their fate with the baying masses.
They are a joke with a capital J,but for us suffering Bradfordians the jole aint funny no more.
Youve no chance of getting realistic kickstart rates deals out of this lot.
They spent millions on john street market just 8 years ago.You would hardly notice a difference.
I believe that business leaders in the mould of johnathan and who exist such as John Pennington and newmason property owner should be put in charge and the council should stay well out of the way in the decision making.They should assist with planning and clearing the way.
I am convinced the hastye with which demolition took place corruption must have played a part.Whichever way you look at it someone should hang.Bring back Albert Pierrpoint and he can do the b***** lot of them