Bradford University is told it must do more to stop attacks on the vulnerable Muslim women

Bradford Telegraph and Argus: Betty Williams in Braford this evening Betty Williams in Braford this evening

Bradford University was challenged to do more to help protect vulnerable young Muslim women from angry family members.

Nobel Peace Prize winner Mrs Betty Williams was addressing an audience of 200 at the opening of the weekend’s Peace Jam International Youth Conference at the University this evening.

She said: “If you had someone on this campus these young women could go to say ‘I am frightened’ – if you are not doing that here, you are dehumanising them by not helping these young women, don’t you think?”

For more details, read Saturday's Telegraph & Argus.

Comments (37)

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9:44pm Fri 4 Mar 11

DR Hew G Rection says...

NO.
family members should do more to stop this.
"dehumanising,by not helping"? no i dont think!
how about protecting women in general from this?
NO. family members should do more to stop this. "dehumanising,by not helping"? no i dont think! how about protecting women in general from this? DR Hew G Rection
  • Score: 0

6:25am Sat 5 Mar 11

albion says...

Well done to Betty (she is right of course).
Well done to Betty (she is right of course). albion
  • Score: 0

10:44am Sat 5 Mar 11

ramsbottom says...

The University can do just so much to protect young Muslim women, but really, this is a cultural thing and is usually perpetrated by family members.
The ill treatment of women in Islam is well known and until this traditional mysogeny is stamped out, young Muslim women will continue to suffer
The University can do just so much to protect young Muslim women, but really, this is a cultural thing and is usually perpetrated by family members. The ill treatment of women in Islam is well known and until this traditional mysogeny is stamped out, young Muslim women will continue to suffer ramsbottom
  • Score: 0

11:03am Sat 5 Mar 11

ilivehereok says...

I think this is a bit of an over-reaction.
It is the duty of good muslim men from respectable families to torture, maim, kill, throw acid at, subjugate, terrorise, kidnap and oppress any woman not doing exactly as they're told.
Democracy and freedom have no place whatsoever in the sharia driven caliphate of the Bradford suburbs - except of course the democratic freedom to yell 'racist oppressor' at anyone who questions this.
I think this is a bit of an over-reaction. It is the duty of good muslim men from respectable families to torture, maim, kill, throw acid at, subjugate, terrorise, kidnap and oppress any woman not doing exactly as they're told. Democracy and freedom have no place whatsoever in the sharia driven caliphate of the Bradford suburbs - except of course the democratic freedom to yell 'racist oppressor' at anyone who questions this. ilivehereok
  • Score: 0

12:32pm Sat 5 Mar 11

sexysam says...

What a load of garbage from the usual posters here once again.Do these people have any knowledge and understanding of the culture of the Asians in Bradford other than the twaddle they read in the Sun and Daily mail. Obviously not from the comments posted here.typical ignornace ( not racists) comments as usaul as if their own society and culture is "perfect"
What a load of garbage from the usual posters here once again.Do these people have any knowledge and understanding of the culture of the Asians in Bradford other than the twaddle they read in the Sun and Daily mail. Obviously not from the comments posted here.typical ignornace ( not racists) comments as usaul as if their own society and culture is "perfect" sexysam
  • Score: 0

12:35pm Sat 5 Mar 11

albion says...

sexysam wrote:
What a load of garbage from the usual posters here once again.Do these people have any knowledge and understanding of the culture of the Asians in Bradford other than the twaddle they read in the Sun and Daily mail. Obviously not from the comments posted here.typical ignornace ( not racists) comments as usaul as if their own society and culture is "perfect"
All very well but it is undeniable that a problem exists and some very intelligent people are prepared to at least acknowledge it.
[quote][p][bold]sexysam[/bold] wrote: What a load of garbage from the usual posters here once again.Do these people have any knowledge and understanding of the culture of the Asians in Bradford other than the twaddle they read in the Sun and Daily mail. Obviously not from the comments posted here.typical ignornace ( not racists) comments as usaul as if their own society and culture is "perfect"[/p][/quote]All very well but it is undeniable that a problem exists and some very intelligent people are prepared to at least acknowledge it. albion
  • Score: 0

12:38pm Sat 5 Mar 11

John Phillips says...

"Bradford University was challenged to do more to help protect vulnerable young Muslim women from angry family members."
.
Lol!! - Grrrrr.... :D
"Bradford University was challenged to do more to help protect vulnerable young Muslim women from angry family members." . Lol!! - Grrrrr.... :D John Phillips
  • Score: 0

12:50pm Sat 5 Mar 11

ilivehereok says...

sexysam wrote:
What a load of garbage from the usual posters here once again.Do these people have any knowledge and understanding of the culture of the Asians in Bradford other than the twaddle they read in the Sun and Daily mail. Obviously not from the comments posted here.typical ignornace ( not racists) comments as usaul as if their own society and culture is "perfect"
No, things are not perfect.
However two points spring immediately to mind.
1) This story and invited comments is SPECIFICALLY about 'Bradford University is told it must do more to stop attacks on the vulnerable Muslim women'. Hence the subject matter - that you seem to find some offence in it is your own problem.
2) Whilst women in western society have indeed struggled for equality (whatever that is - another over pc'd doctrine of nonsense these days it seems, though NOT historically) I haven't read too many stories or come across a wide societal issue regarding them being actively subjugated, controlled and, indeed, killed and beaten by their own family in the repugnantly phrased 'honour'.
If you're offended by this issue on whatever level then rally against it, don't spout the oft-used trump of 'racism' in the hope of stifling debate - your refusal to acknowledge an issue does not, I'm afraid, render it moot or non-existant.
[quote][p][bold]sexysam[/bold] wrote: What a load of garbage from the usual posters here once again.Do these people have any knowledge and understanding of the culture of the Asians in Bradford other than the twaddle they read in the Sun and Daily mail. Obviously not from the comments posted here.typical ignornace ( not racists) comments as usaul as if their own society and culture is "perfect"[/p][/quote]No, things are not perfect. However two points spring immediately to mind. 1) This story and invited comments is SPECIFICALLY about 'Bradford University is told it must do more to stop attacks on the vulnerable Muslim women'. Hence the subject matter - that you seem to find some offence in it is your own problem. 2) Whilst women in western society have indeed struggled for equality (whatever that is - another over pc'd doctrine of nonsense these days it seems, though NOT historically) I haven't read too many stories or come across a wide societal issue regarding them being actively subjugated, controlled and, indeed, killed and beaten by their own family in the repugnantly phrased 'honour'. If you're offended by this issue on whatever level then rally against it, don't spout the oft-used trump of 'racism' in the hope of stifling debate - your refusal to acknowledge an issue does not, I'm afraid, render it moot or non-existant. ilivehereok
  • Score: 0

2:57pm Sat 5 Mar 11

John Phillips says...

sexysam wrote:
What a load of garbage from the usual posters here once again.Do these people have any knowledge and understanding of the culture of the Asians in Bradford other than the twaddle they read in the Sun and Daily mail. Obviously not from the comments posted here.typical ignornace ( not racists) comments as usaul as if their own society and culture is "perfect"
Very well said.
.
And I wonder what the lives of those in sink-estates look like? - battered wives/girlfriends by alcoholic and drugged up husbands/partners.
.
Yes, such a wonderful image by the non-Muslims {rolleyes}
[quote][p][bold]sexysam[/bold] wrote: What a load of garbage from the usual posters here once again.Do these people have any knowledge and understanding of the culture of the Asians in Bradford other than the twaddle they read in the Sun and Daily mail. Obviously not from the comments posted here.typical ignornace ( not racists) comments as usaul as if their own society and culture is "perfect"[/p][/quote]Very well said. . And I wonder what the lives of those in sink-estates look like? - battered wives/girlfriends by alcoholic and drugged up husbands/partners. . Yes, such a wonderful image by the non-Muslims {rolleyes} John Phillips
  • Score: 0

3:57pm Sat 5 Mar 11

John Phillips says...

ramsbottom wrote:
The University can do just so much to protect young Muslim women, but really, this is a cultural thing and is usually perpetrated by family members.
The ill treatment of women in Islam is well known and until this traditional mysogeny is stamped out, young Muslim women will continue to suffer
'Ill-treatment' of women in Islam? - can you point out to us where this is?
.
Thanks :)
[quote][p][bold]ramsbottom[/bold] wrote: The University can do just so much to protect young Muslim women, but really, this is a cultural thing and is usually perpetrated by family members. The ill treatment of women in Islam is well known and until this traditional mysogeny is stamped out, young Muslim women will continue to suffer[/p][/quote]'Ill-treatment' of women in Islam? - can you point out to us where this is? . Thanks :) John Phillips
  • Score: 0

4:34pm Sat 5 Mar 11

albion says...

John Phillips wrote:
ramsbottom wrote:
The University can do just so much to protect young Muslim women, but really, this is a cultural thing and is usually perpetrated by family members.
The ill treatment of women in Islam is well known and until this traditional mysogeny is stamped out, young Muslim women will continue to suffer
'Ill-treatment' of women in Islam? - can you point out to us where this is?
.
Thanks :)
http://www.answering
-islam.org/Silas/wif
e-beating.htm
[quote][p][bold]John Phillips[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ramsbottom[/bold] wrote: The University can do just so much to protect young Muslim women, but really, this is a cultural thing and is usually perpetrated by family members. The ill treatment of women in Islam is well known and until this traditional mysogeny is stamped out, young Muslim women will continue to suffer[/p][/quote]'Ill-treatment' of women in Islam? - can you point out to us where this is? . Thanks :)[/p][/quote]http://www.answering -islam.org/Silas/wif e-beating.htm albion
  • Score: 0

4:45pm Sat 5 Mar 11

neverthetwain says...

The women who need real protection are those who are married to drunks druggies and psychopaths.
The women who need real protection are those who are married to drunks druggies and psychopaths. neverthetwain
  • Score: 0

4:53pm Sat 5 Mar 11

albion says...

neverthetwain wrote:
The women who need real protection are those who are married to drunks druggies and psychopaths.
Anyone under threat needs "real protection" this is about one particular section.
[quote][p][bold]neverthetwain[/bold] wrote: The women who need real protection are those who are married to drunks druggies and psychopaths.[/p][/quote]Anyone under threat needs "real protection" this is about one particular section. albion
  • Score: 0

5:03pm Sat 5 Mar 11

Joedavid says...

The photo caption,
"Betty Williams in Braford this evening"
Is Braford a place in Pakistan?
The photo caption, "Betty Williams in Braford this evening" Is Braford a place in Pakistan? Joedavid
  • Score: 0

5:17pm Sat 5 Mar 11

albion says...

Joedavid wrote:
The photo caption,
"Betty Williams in Braford this evening"
Is Braford a place in Pakistan?
No it is a cross between a Hereford bull and a Brahman cow........
[quote][p][bold]Joedavid[/bold] wrote: The photo caption, "Betty Williams in Braford this evening" Is Braford a place in Pakistan?[/p][/quote]No it is a cross between a Hereford bull and a Brahman cow........ albion
  • Score: 0

5:29pm Sat 5 Mar 11

John Phillips says...

albion wrote:
John Phillips wrote:
ramsbottom wrote:
The University can do just so much to protect young Muslim women, but really, this is a cultural thing and is usually perpetrated by family members.
The ill treatment of women in Islam is well known and until this traditional mysogeny is stamped out, young Muslim women will continue to suffer
'Ill-treatment' of women in Islam? - can you point out to us where this is?
.
Thanks :)
http://www.answering

-islam.org/Silas/wif

e-beating.htm
Lol ! - another anti-Muslim link. What next? - one from the NF site? {rolleyes}
[quote][p][bold]albion[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]John Phillips[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ramsbottom[/bold] wrote: The University can do just so much to protect young Muslim women, but really, this is a cultural thing and is usually perpetrated by family members. The ill treatment of women in Islam is well known and until this traditional mysogeny is stamped out, young Muslim women will continue to suffer[/p][/quote]'Ill-treatment' of women in Islam? - can you point out to us where this is? . Thanks :)[/p][/quote]http://www.answering -islam.org/Silas/wif e-beating.htm[/p][/quote]Lol ! - another anti-Muslim link. What next? - one from the NF site? {rolleyes} John Phillips
  • Score: 0

9:07pm Sat 5 Mar 11

DR Hew G Rection says...

and brent meister is.........?
and brent meister is.........? DR Hew G Rection
  • Score: 0

9:51pm Sat 5 Mar 11

ramsbottom says...

John Phillips wrote:
ramsbottom wrote:
The University can do just so much to protect young Muslim women, but really, this is a cultural thing and is usually perpetrated by family members.
The ill treatment of women in Islam is well known and until this traditional mysogeny is stamped out, young Muslim women will continue to suffer
'Ill-treatment' of women in Islam? - can you point out to us where this is?
.
Thanks :)
Yes clever clogs I could give you ten A4 pages of examples but I will give you the most recent one I know of.
Quote...”A 14 year old girl, in Bangladesh, has died after being given 80 lashes with a bamboo cane by the local Imams!! (She should have had 100, by the way)
This barbaric punishment was carried out because she had been raped by a 40 year old man who was either her cousin or one of the villagers, and she was held responsible for allowing it to happen”!!!
That’s ill treatment of a woman for you!!!!!!!
[quote][p][bold]John Phillips[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ramsbottom[/bold] wrote: The University can do just so much to protect young Muslim women, but really, this is a cultural thing and is usually perpetrated by family members. The ill treatment of women in Islam is well known and until this traditional mysogeny is stamped out, young Muslim women will continue to suffer[/p][/quote]'Ill-treatment' of women in Islam? - can you point out to us where this is? . Thanks :)[/p][/quote]Yes clever clogs I could give you ten A4 pages of examples but I will give you the most recent one I know of. Quote...”A 14 year old girl, in Bangladesh, has died after being given 80 lashes with a bamboo cane by the local Imams!! (She should have had 100, by the way) This barbaric punishment was carried out because she had been raped by a 40 year old man who was either her cousin or one of the villagers, and she was held responsible for allowing it to happen”!!! That’s ill treatment of a woman for you!!!!!!! ramsbottom
  • Score: 0

11:00pm Sat 5 Mar 11

ilivehereok says...

John Phillips wrote:
sexysam wrote:
What a load of garbage from the usual posters here once again.Do these people have any knowledge and understanding of the culture of the Asians in Bradford other than the twaddle they read in the Sun and Daily mail. Obviously not from the comments posted here.typical ignornace ( not racists) comments as usaul as if their own society and culture is "perfect"
Very well said.
.
And I wonder what the lives of those in sink-estates look like? - battered wives/girlfriends by alcoholic and drugged up husbands/partners.
.
Yes, such a wonderful image by the non-Muslims {rolleyes}
Not the greatest of comebacks, Iowna!
2 hours after I asked for a response - AND the answer is.....rumroll......
.drugs, drink etc. making people 'beat their wife'?!
Sorry young Iowna, but research shows both these areas of 'contention' occur statistaclly more often in 'new and recently settled communities'.
Even if it was just the same, how do you try and kill a debate by stating things in common with others (violence wise) along with the EXTRA of what you really **** up over!
Cretin.
[quote][p][bold]John Phillips[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sexysam[/bold] wrote: What a load of garbage from the usual posters here once again.Do these people have any knowledge and understanding of the culture of the Asians in Bradford other than the twaddle they read in the Sun and Daily mail. Obviously not from the comments posted here.typical ignornace ( not racists) comments as usaul as if their own society and culture is "perfect"[/p][/quote]Very well said. . And I wonder what the lives of those in sink-estates look like? - battered wives/girlfriends by alcoholic and drugged up husbands/partners. . Yes, such a wonderful image by the non-Muslims {rolleyes}[/p][/quote]Not the greatest of comebacks, Iowna! 2 hours after I asked for a response - AND the answer is.....rumroll...... .drugs, drink etc. making people 'beat their wife'?! Sorry young Iowna, but research shows both these areas of 'contention' occur statistaclly more often in 'new and recently settled communities'. Even if it was just the same, how do you try and kill a debate by stating things in common with others (violence wise) along with the EXTRA of what you really **** up over! Cretin. ilivehereok
  • Score: 0

10:56am Sun 6 Mar 11

mrs walker says...

Misogyny is rife through the three Abrahamic religions; since they were all based on the same foundation, that strand runs through them all.
.
To me, the bottom line is: some men are violent and misogynistic. End of. In mitigation, some of them do not recognise that they are doing anything wrong.
.
While religion is used by some to validate their violent actions, atheist and agnostic men have a diferent reasoning that allows them to brutalise their wives and insist on conformity from their daughters. But their excuse is not 'Because God says so' but 'Because I say so'.
.
Misogyny is wider spread than many of us are prepared to recognise. Yes we can point a finger at Islam, but we should also point a finger at our friends, family members and neighbours and challenge it wherever it is found, otherwise we are hypocrites. The lack of women at top board levels throughout the top British companies speaks volumes, as does the fact that most domestic chores are still done by women - even when both parents are working fulltime. While this does not imply violence, it does imply that we are somehow lesser creatures, incapable of running a business, and that our male counterparts are too good to wield a mop.
.
If these prejudices are tackled, perhaps more men from every culture will stop treating us like chattels, eye-candy and punchbags, and start viewing us as equal people?
Misogyny is rife through the three Abrahamic religions; since they were all based on the same foundation, that strand runs through them all. . To me, the bottom line is: some men are violent and misogynistic. End of. In mitigation, some of them do not recognise that they are doing anything wrong. . While religion is used by some to validate their violent actions, atheist and agnostic men have a diferent reasoning that allows them to brutalise their wives and insist on conformity from their daughters. But their excuse is not 'Because God says so' but 'Because I say so'. . Misogyny is wider spread than many of us are prepared to recognise. Yes we can point a finger at Islam, but we should also point a finger at our friends, family members and neighbours and challenge it wherever it is found, otherwise we are hypocrites. The lack of women at top board levels throughout the top British companies speaks volumes, as does the fact that most domestic chores are still done by women - even when both parents are working fulltime. While this does not imply violence, it does imply that we are somehow lesser creatures, incapable of running a business, and that our male counterparts are too good to wield a mop. . If these prejudices are tackled, perhaps more men from every culture will stop treating us like chattels, eye-candy and punchbags, and start viewing us as equal people? mrs walker
  • Score: 0

11:34am Sun 6 Mar 11

albion says...

mrs walker wrote:
Misogyny is rife through the three Abrahamic religions; since they were all based on the same foundation, that strand runs through them all.
.
To me, the bottom line is: some men are violent and misogynistic. End of. In mitigation, some of them do not recognise that they are doing anything wrong.
.
While religion is used by some to validate their violent actions, atheist and agnostic men have a diferent reasoning that allows them to brutalise their wives and insist on conformity from their daughters. But their excuse is not 'Because God says so' but 'Because I say so'.
.
Misogyny is wider spread than many of us are prepared to recognise. Yes we can point a finger at Islam, but we should also point a finger at our friends, family members and neighbours and challenge it wherever it is found, otherwise we are hypocrites. The lack of women at top board levels throughout the top British companies speaks volumes, as does the fact that most domestic chores are still done by women - even when both parents are working fulltime. While this does not imply violence, it does imply that we are somehow lesser creatures, incapable of running a business, and that our male counterparts are too good to wield a mop.
.
If these prejudices are tackled, perhaps more men from every culture will stop treating us like chattels, eye-candy and punchbags, and start viewing us as equal people?
There is no excuse for violence full stop, men who use their strength to physically assault women are often in my view mentally inadequate, but that in itself presents a problem as society is still a long way from defeating or indeed understanding such inadequacies.
This report however is about a certain problem which undoubtedly exists in a certain section of society, so while the points that you raise are obviously of some concern they are not wholly relevant to this particular report (unless of course you were attempting to remove the emphasis on that particular section of society, You wouldn't do that now would you?).
[quote][p][bold]mrs walker[/bold] wrote: Misogyny is rife through the three Abrahamic religions; since they were all based on the same foundation, that strand runs through them all. . To me, the bottom line is: some men are violent and misogynistic. End of. In mitigation, some of them do not recognise that they are doing anything wrong. . While religion is used by some to validate their violent actions, atheist and agnostic men have a diferent reasoning that allows them to brutalise their wives and insist on conformity from their daughters. But their excuse is not 'Because God says so' but 'Because I say so'. . Misogyny is wider spread than many of us are prepared to recognise. Yes we can point a finger at Islam, but we should also point a finger at our friends, family members and neighbours and challenge it wherever it is found, otherwise we are hypocrites. The lack of women at top board levels throughout the top British companies speaks volumes, as does the fact that most domestic chores are still done by women - even when both parents are working fulltime. While this does not imply violence, it does imply that we are somehow lesser creatures, incapable of running a business, and that our male counterparts are too good to wield a mop. . If these prejudices are tackled, perhaps more men from every culture will stop treating us like chattels, eye-candy and punchbags, and start viewing us as equal people?[/p][/quote]There is no excuse for violence full stop, men who use their strength to physically assault women are often in my view mentally inadequate, but that in itself presents a problem as society is still a long way from defeating or indeed understanding such inadequacies. This report however is about a certain problem which undoubtedly exists in a certain section of society, so while the points that you raise are obviously of some concern they are not wholly relevant to this particular report (unless of course you were attempting to remove the emphasis on that particular section of society, You wouldn't do that now would you?). albion
  • Score: 0

12:44pm Sun 6 Mar 11

John Phillips says...

ramsbottom wrote:
John Phillips wrote:
ramsbottom wrote:
The University can do just so much to protect young Muslim women, but really, this is a cultural thing and is usually perpetrated by family members.
The ill treatment of women in Islam is well known and until this traditional mysogeny is stamped out, young Muslim women will continue to suffer
'Ill-treatment' of women in Islam? - can you point out to us where this is?
.
Thanks :)
Yes clever clogs I could give you ten A4 pages of examples but I will give you the most recent one I know of.
Quote...”A 14 year old girl, in Bangladesh, has died after being given 80 lashes with a bamboo cane by the local Imams!! (She should have had 100, by the way)
This barbaric punishment was carried out because she had been raped by a 40 year old man who was either her cousin or one of the villagers, and she was held responsible for allowing it to happen”!!!
That’s ill treatment of a woman for you!!!!!!!
Blame the *culture* (not the religion), otherwise you won't be taken seriously :)
[quote][p][bold]ramsbottom[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]John Phillips[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ramsbottom[/bold] wrote: The University can do just so much to protect young Muslim women, but really, this is a cultural thing and is usually perpetrated by family members. The ill treatment of women in Islam is well known and until this traditional mysogeny is stamped out, young Muslim women will continue to suffer[/p][/quote]'Ill-treatment' of women in Islam? - can you point out to us where this is? . Thanks :)[/p][/quote]Yes clever clogs I could give you ten A4 pages of examples but I will give you the most recent one I know of. Quote...”A 14 year old girl, in Bangladesh, has died after being given 80 lashes with a bamboo cane by the local Imams!! (She should have had 100, by the way) This barbaric punishment was carried out because she had been raped by a 40 year old man who was either her cousin or one of the villagers, and she was held responsible for allowing it to happen”!!! That’s ill treatment of a woman for you!!!!!!![/p][/quote]Blame the *culture* (not the religion), otherwise you won't be taken seriously :) John Phillips
  • Score: 0

4:18pm Sun 6 Mar 11

mrs walker says...

albion wrote:
mrs walker wrote:
Misogyny is rife through the three Abrahamic religions; since they were all based on the same foundation, that strand runs through them all.
.
To me, the bottom line is: some men are violent and misogynistic. End of. In mitigation, some of them do not recognise that they are doing anything wrong.
.
While religion is used by some to validate their violent actions, atheist and agnostic men have a diferent reasoning that allows them to brutalise their wives and insist on conformity from their daughters. But their excuse is not 'Because God says so' but 'Because I say so'.
.
Misogyny is wider spread than many of us are prepared to recognise. Yes we can point a finger at Islam, but we should also point a finger at our friends, family members and neighbours and challenge it wherever it is found, otherwise we are hypocrites. The lack of women at top board levels throughout the top British companies speaks volumes, as does the fact that most domestic chores are still done by women - even when both parents are working fulltime. While this does not imply violence, it does imply that we are somehow lesser creatures, incapable of running a business, and that our male counterparts are too good to wield a mop.
.
If these prejudices are tackled, perhaps more men from every culture will stop treating us like chattels, eye-candy and punchbags, and start viewing us as equal people?
There is no excuse for violence full stop, men who use their strength to physically assault women are often in my view mentally inadequate, but that in itself presents a problem as society is still a long way from defeating or indeed understanding such inadequacies.
This report however is about a certain problem which undoubtedly exists in a certain section of society, so while the points that you raise are obviously of some concern they are not wholly relevant to this particular report (unless of course you were attempting to remove the emphasis on that particular section of society, You wouldn't do that now would you?).
What I would do is highlight our own failings in this area, so that all right-thinking people abhor it for what it is, regardless of the race or religion of the person doing it.
.
I was reading an article just today - after I'd posted - that mentioned that '700,000 people will experience domestic violence in the UK, and 90% of them are white British females'.
.
Now, right though it is to offer protection and support to young muslim girls, the risk is that in singling out a 'particular section of society', we pat ourselves on the back, tell ourselves that the problem only exists in muslim families, and use it as another excuse to fuel hatred for a different way of life and worship.
.
But you wouldn't do that, would you...?
[quote][p][bold]albion[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mrs walker[/bold] wrote: Misogyny is rife through the three Abrahamic religions; since they were all based on the same foundation, that strand runs through them all. . To me, the bottom line is: some men are violent and misogynistic. End of. In mitigation, some of them do not recognise that they are doing anything wrong. . While religion is used by some to validate their violent actions, atheist and agnostic men have a diferent reasoning that allows them to brutalise their wives and insist on conformity from their daughters. But their excuse is not 'Because God says so' but 'Because I say so'. . Misogyny is wider spread than many of us are prepared to recognise. Yes we can point a finger at Islam, but we should also point a finger at our friends, family members and neighbours and challenge it wherever it is found, otherwise we are hypocrites. The lack of women at top board levels throughout the top British companies speaks volumes, as does the fact that most domestic chores are still done by women - even when both parents are working fulltime. While this does not imply violence, it does imply that we are somehow lesser creatures, incapable of running a business, and that our male counterparts are too good to wield a mop. . If these prejudices are tackled, perhaps more men from every culture will stop treating us like chattels, eye-candy and punchbags, and start viewing us as equal people?[/p][/quote]There is no excuse for violence full stop, men who use their strength to physically assault women are often in my view mentally inadequate, but that in itself presents a problem as society is still a long way from defeating or indeed understanding such inadequacies. This report however is about a certain problem which undoubtedly exists in a certain section of society, so while the points that you raise are obviously of some concern they are not wholly relevant to this particular report (unless of course you were attempting to remove the emphasis on that particular section of society, You wouldn't do that now would you?).[/p][/quote]What I would do is highlight our own failings in this area, so that all right-thinking people abhor it for what it is, regardless of the race or religion of the person doing it. . I was reading an article just today - after I'd posted - that mentioned that '700,000 people will experience domestic violence in the UK, and 90% of them are white British females'. . Now, right though it is to offer protection and support to young muslim girls, the risk is that in singling out a 'particular section of society', we pat ourselves on the back, tell ourselves that the problem only exists in muslim families, and use it as another excuse to fuel hatred for a different way of life and worship. . But you wouldn't do that, would you...? mrs walker
  • Score: 0

4:19pm Sun 6 Mar 11

Jammy says...

John Phillips wrote:
ramsbottom wrote:
John Phillips wrote:
ramsbottom wrote: The University can do just so much to protect young Muslim women, but really, this is a cultural thing and is usually perpetrated by family members. The ill treatment of women in Islam is well known and until this traditional mysogeny is stamped out, young Muslim women will continue to suffer
'Ill-treatment' of women in Islam? - can you point out to us where this is? . Thanks :)
Yes clever clogs I could give you ten A4 pages of examples but I will give you the most recent one I know of. Quote...”A 14 year old girl, in Bangladesh, has died after being given 80 lashes with a bamboo cane by the local Imams!! (She should have had 100, by the way) This barbaric punishment was carried out because she had been raped by a 40 year old man who was either her cousin or one of the villagers, and she was held responsible for allowing it to happen”!!! That’s ill treatment of a woman for you!!!!!!!
Blame the *culture* (not the religion), otherwise you won't be taken seriously :)
In this case the religion is the culture,otherwise why did the Imam carry out the punishment.....
[quote][p][bold]John Phillips[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ramsbottom[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]John Phillips[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ramsbottom[/bold] wrote: The University can do just so much to protect young Muslim women, but really, this is a cultural thing and is usually perpetrated by family members. The ill treatment of women in Islam is well known and until this traditional mysogeny is stamped out, young Muslim women will continue to suffer[/p][/quote]'Ill-treatment' of women in Islam? - can you point out to us where this is? . Thanks :)[/p][/quote]Yes clever clogs I could give you ten A4 pages of examples but I will give you the most recent one I know of. Quote...”A 14 year old girl, in Bangladesh, has died after being given 80 lashes with a bamboo cane by the local Imams!! (She should have had 100, by the way) This barbaric punishment was carried out because she had been raped by a 40 year old man who was either her cousin or one of the villagers, and she was held responsible for allowing it to happen”!!! That’s ill treatment of a woman for you!!!!!!![/p][/quote]Blame the *culture* (not the religion), otherwise you won't be taken seriously :)[/p][/quote]In this case the religion is the culture,otherwise why did the Imam carry out the punishment..... Jammy
  • Score: 0

4:31pm Sun 6 Mar 11

albion says...

mrs walker wrote:
albion wrote:
mrs walker wrote:
Misogyny is rife through the three Abrahamic religions; since they were all based on the same foundation, that strand runs through them all.
.
To me, the bottom line is: some men are violent and misogynistic. End of. In mitigation, some of them do not recognise that they are doing anything wrong.
.
While religion is used by some to validate their violent actions, atheist and agnostic men have a diferent reasoning that allows them to brutalise their wives and insist on conformity from their daughters. But their excuse is not 'Because God says so' but 'Because I say so'.
.
Misogyny is wider spread than many of us are prepared to recognise. Yes we can point a finger at Islam, but we should also point a finger at our friends, family members and neighbours and challenge it wherever it is found, otherwise we are hypocrites. The lack of women at top board levels throughout the top British companies speaks volumes, as does the fact that most domestic chores are still done by women - even when both parents are working fulltime. While this does not imply violence, it does imply that we are somehow lesser creatures, incapable of running a business, and that our male counterparts are too good to wield a mop.
.
If these prejudices are tackled, perhaps more men from every culture will stop treating us like chattels, eye-candy and punchbags, and start viewing us as equal people?
There is no excuse for violence full stop, men who use their strength to physically assault women are often in my view mentally inadequate, but that in itself presents a problem as society is still a long way from defeating or indeed understanding such inadequacies.
This report however is about a certain problem which undoubtedly exists in a certain section of society, so while the points that you raise are obviously of some concern they are not wholly relevant to this particular report (unless of course you were attempting to remove the emphasis on that particular section of society, You wouldn't do that now would you?).
What I would do is highlight our own failings in this area, so that all right-thinking people abhor it for what it is, regardless of the race or religion of the person doing it.
.
I was reading an article just today - after I'd posted - that mentioned that '700,000 people will experience domestic violence in the UK, and 90% of them are white British females'.
.
Now, right though it is to offer protection and support to young muslim girls, the risk is that in singling out a 'particular section of society', we pat ourselves on the back, tell ourselves that the problem only exists in muslim families, and use it as another excuse to fuel hatred for a different way of life and worship.
.
But you wouldn't do that, would you...?
It isn't singling out a particular section of society, Young white women are well aware of what options are open to them as regards help, whereas young Muslim women are in many cases not so aware and with things like honour killings, acid attacks and the need to have a new identity in many cases many of them might well be in two minds as to what is the least daunting option open to them.
I wouldn't dispute the figures that you quote but once again they are totally irrelevant here.
[quote][p][bold]mrs walker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]albion[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mrs walker[/bold] wrote: Misogyny is rife through the three Abrahamic religions; since they were all based on the same foundation, that strand runs through them all. . To me, the bottom line is: some men are violent and misogynistic. End of. In mitigation, some of them do not recognise that they are doing anything wrong. . While religion is used by some to validate their violent actions, atheist and agnostic men have a diferent reasoning that allows them to brutalise their wives and insist on conformity from their daughters. But their excuse is not 'Because God says so' but 'Because I say so'. . Misogyny is wider spread than many of us are prepared to recognise. Yes we can point a finger at Islam, but we should also point a finger at our friends, family members and neighbours and challenge it wherever it is found, otherwise we are hypocrites. The lack of women at top board levels throughout the top British companies speaks volumes, as does the fact that most domestic chores are still done by women - even when both parents are working fulltime. While this does not imply violence, it does imply that we are somehow lesser creatures, incapable of running a business, and that our male counterparts are too good to wield a mop. . If these prejudices are tackled, perhaps more men from every culture will stop treating us like chattels, eye-candy and punchbags, and start viewing us as equal people?[/p][/quote]There is no excuse for violence full stop, men who use their strength to physically assault women are often in my view mentally inadequate, but that in itself presents a problem as society is still a long way from defeating or indeed understanding such inadequacies. This report however is about a certain problem which undoubtedly exists in a certain section of society, so while the points that you raise are obviously of some concern they are not wholly relevant to this particular report (unless of course you were attempting to remove the emphasis on that particular section of society, You wouldn't do that now would you?).[/p][/quote]What I would do is highlight our own failings in this area, so that all right-thinking people abhor it for what it is, regardless of the race or religion of the person doing it. . I was reading an article just today - after I'd posted - that mentioned that '700,000 people will experience domestic violence in the UK, and 90% of them are white British females'. . Now, right though it is to offer protection and support to young muslim girls, the risk is that in singling out a 'particular section of society', we pat ourselves on the back, tell ourselves that the problem only exists in muslim families, and use it as another excuse to fuel hatred for a different way of life and worship. . But you wouldn't do that, would you...?[/p][/quote]It isn't singling out a particular section of society, Young white women are well aware of what options are open to them as regards help, whereas young Muslim women are in many cases not so aware and with things like honour killings, acid attacks and the need to have a new identity in many cases many of them might well be in two minds as to what is the least daunting option open to them. I wouldn't dispute the figures that you quote but once again they are totally irrelevant here. albion
  • Score: 0

5:50pm Sun 6 Mar 11

John Phillips says...

Jammy wrote:
John Phillips wrote:
ramsbottom wrote:
John Phillips wrote:
ramsbottom wrote: The University can do just so much to protect young Muslim women, but really, this is a cultural thing and is usually perpetrated by family members. The ill treatment of women in Islam is well known and until this traditional mysogeny is stamped out, young Muslim women will continue to suffer
'Ill-treatment' of women in Islam? - can you point out to us where this is? . Thanks :)
Yes clever clogs I could give you ten A4 pages of examples but I will give you the most recent one I know of. Quote...”A 14 year old girl, in Bangladesh, has died after being given 80 lashes with a bamboo cane by the local Imams!! (She should have had 100, by the way) This barbaric punishment was carried out because she had been raped by a 40 year old man who was either her cousin or one of the villagers, and she was held responsible for allowing it to happen”!!! That’s ill treatment of a woman for you!!!!!!!
Blame the *culture* (not the religion), otherwise you won't be taken seriously :)
In this case the religion is the culture,otherwise why did the Imam carry out the punishment.....
Anyone can appoint anybody as 'Imam' in a 3rd-word village. All you need is the backup of the ignorant locals and you're in a position to do anything you want (even if it goes against the Faith).
.
Sick, isn't it?
[quote][p][bold]Jammy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]John Phillips[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ramsbottom[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]John Phillips[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ramsbottom[/bold] wrote: The University can do just so much to protect young Muslim women, but really, this is a cultural thing and is usually perpetrated by family members. The ill treatment of women in Islam is well known and until this traditional mysogeny is stamped out, young Muslim women will continue to suffer[/p][/quote]'Ill-treatment' of women in Islam? - can you point out to us where this is? . Thanks :)[/p][/quote]Yes clever clogs I could give you ten A4 pages of examples but I will give you the most recent one I know of. Quote...”A 14 year old girl, in Bangladesh, has died after being given 80 lashes with a bamboo cane by the local Imams!! (She should have had 100, by the way) This barbaric punishment was carried out because she had been raped by a 40 year old man who was either her cousin or one of the villagers, and she was held responsible for allowing it to happen”!!! That’s ill treatment of a woman for you!!!!!!![/p][/quote]Blame the *culture* (not the religion), otherwise you won't be taken seriously :)[/p][/quote]In this case the religion is the culture,otherwise why did the Imam carry out the punishment.....[/p][/quote]Anyone can appoint anybody as 'Imam' in a 3rd-word village. All you need is the backup of the ignorant locals and you're in a position to do anything you want (even if it goes against the Faith). . Sick, isn't it? John Phillips
  • Score: 0

6:07pm Sun 6 Mar 11

albion says...

John Phillips wrote:
Jammy wrote:
John Phillips wrote:
ramsbottom wrote:
John Phillips wrote:
ramsbottom wrote: The University can do just so much to protect young Muslim women, but really, this is a cultural thing and is usually perpetrated by family members. The ill treatment of women in Islam is well known and until this traditional mysogeny is stamped out, young Muslim women will continue to suffer
'Ill-treatment' of women in Islam? - can you point out to us where this is? . Thanks :)
Yes clever clogs I could give you ten A4 pages of examples but I will give you the most recent one I know of. Quote...”A 14 year old girl, in Bangladesh, has died after being given 80 lashes with a bamboo cane by the local Imams!! (She should have had 100, by the way) This barbaric punishment was carried out because she had been raped by a 40 year old man who was either her cousin or one of the villagers, and she was held responsible for allowing it to happen”!!! That’s ill treatment of a woman for you!!!!!!!
Blame the *culture* (not the religion), otherwise you won't be taken seriously :)
In this case the religion is the culture,otherwise why did the Imam carry out the punishment.....
Anyone can appoint anybody as 'Imam' in a 3rd-word village. All you need is the backup of the ignorant locals and you're in a position to do anything you want (even if it goes against the Faith).
.
Sick, isn't it?
Sounds like Manningham.
[quote][p][bold]John Phillips[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Jammy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]John Phillips[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ramsbottom[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]John Phillips[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ramsbottom[/bold] wrote: The University can do just so much to protect young Muslim women, but really, this is a cultural thing and is usually perpetrated by family members. The ill treatment of women in Islam is well known and until this traditional mysogeny is stamped out, young Muslim women will continue to suffer[/p][/quote]'Ill-treatment' of women in Islam? - can you point out to us where this is? . Thanks :)[/p][/quote]Yes clever clogs I could give you ten A4 pages of examples but I will give you the most recent one I know of. Quote...”A 14 year old girl, in Bangladesh, has died after being given 80 lashes with a bamboo cane by the local Imams!! (She should have had 100, by the way) This barbaric punishment was carried out because she had been raped by a 40 year old man who was either her cousin or one of the villagers, and she was held responsible for allowing it to happen”!!! That’s ill treatment of a woman for you!!!!!!![/p][/quote]Blame the *culture* (not the religion), otherwise you won't be taken seriously :)[/p][/quote]In this case the religion is the culture,otherwise why did the Imam carry out the punishment.....[/p][/quote]Anyone can appoint anybody as 'Imam' in a 3rd-word village. All you need is the backup of the ignorant locals and you're in a position to do anything you want (even if it goes against the Faith). . Sick, isn't it?[/p][/quote]Sounds like Manningham. albion
  • Score: 0

7:15pm Sun 6 Mar 11

John Phillips says...

albion wrote:
John Phillips wrote:
Jammy wrote:
John Phillips wrote:
ramsbottom wrote:
John Phillips wrote:
ramsbottom wrote: The University can do just so much to protect young Muslim women, but really, this is a cultural thing and is usually perpetrated by family members. The ill treatment of women in Islam is well known and until this traditional mysogeny is stamped out, young Muslim women will continue to suffer
'Ill-treatment' of women in Islam? - can you point out to us where this is? . Thanks :)
Yes clever clogs I could give you ten A4 pages of examples but I will give you the most recent one I know of. Quote...”A 14 year old girl, in Bangladesh, has died after being given 80 lashes with a bamboo cane by the local Imams!! (She should have had 100, by the way) This barbaric punishment was carried out because she had been raped by a 40 year old man who was either her cousin or one of the villagers, and she was held responsible for allowing it to happen”!!! That’s ill treatment of a woman for you!!!!!!!
Blame the *culture* (not the religion), otherwise you won't be taken seriously :)
In this case the religion is the culture,otherwise why did the Imam carry out the punishment.....
Anyone can appoint anybody as 'Imam' in a 3rd-word village. All you need is the backup of the ignorant locals and you're in a position to do anything you want (even if it goes against the Faith).
.
Sick, isn't it?
Sounds like Manningham.
Who's he?
[quote][p][bold]albion[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]John Phillips[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Jammy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]John Phillips[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ramsbottom[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]John Phillips[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ramsbottom[/bold] wrote: The University can do just so much to protect young Muslim women, but really, this is a cultural thing and is usually perpetrated by family members. The ill treatment of women in Islam is well known and until this traditional mysogeny is stamped out, young Muslim women will continue to suffer[/p][/quote]'Ill-treatment' of women in Islam? - can you point out to us where this is? . Thanks :)[/p][/quote]Yes clever clogs I could give you ten A4 pages of examples but I will give you the most recent one I know of. Quote...”A 14 year old girl, in Bangladesh, has died after being given 80 lashes with a bamboo cane by the local Imams!! (She should have had 100, by the way) This barbaric punishment was carried out because she had been raped by a 40 year old man who was either her cousin or one of the villagers, and she was held responsible for allowing it to happen”!!! That’s ill treatment of a woman for you!!!!!!![/p][/quote]Blame the *culture* (not the religion), otherwise you won't be taken seriously :)[/p][/quote]In this case the religion is the culture,otherwise why did the Imam carry out the punishment.....[/p][/quote]Anyone can appoint anybody as 'Imam' in a 3rd-word village. All you need is the backup of the ignorant locals and you're in a position to do anything you want (even if it goes against the Faith). . Sick, isn't it?[/p][/quote]Sounds like Manningham.[/p][/quote]Who's he? John Phillips
  • Score: 0

10:24pm Sun 6 Mar 11

bredandbuttered says...

mrs walker wrote:
Misogyny is rife through the three Abrahamic religions; since they were all based on the same foundation, that strand runs through them all.
.
To me, the bottom line is: some men are violent and misogynistic. End of. In mitigation, some of them do not recognise that they are doing anything wrong.
.
While religion is used by some to validate their violent actions, atheist and agnostic men have a diferent reasoning that allows them to brutalise their wives and insist on conformity from their daughters. But their excuse is not 'Because God says so' but 'Because I say so'.
.
Misogyny is wider spread than many of us are prepared to recognise. Yes we can point a finger at Islam, but we should also point a finger at our friends, family members and neighbours and challenge it wherever it is found, otherwise we are hypocrites. The lack of women at top board levels throughout the top British companies speaks volumes, as does the fact that most domestic chores are still done by women - even when both parents are working fulltime. While this does not imply violence, it does imply that we are somehow lesser creatures, incapable of running a business, and that our male counterparts are too good to wield a mop.
.
If these prejudices are tackled, perhaps more men from every culture will stop treating us like chattels, eye-candy and punchbags, and start viewing us as equal people?
How can you even to begin to compare the actions of men in this country to the actions of those in Pakistan, for instance.
A country which is regarded by some to be about to implode, all due in some great part to the bastardisation of Islamic , and the greed and corruption of some of its more powerful believers, and that of the Army, Politicians and the Police.
What good can possibly come in the near future from such a state of affairs.
If I was a woman in Pakistan, I would want to leave immediately, even just not to witness the public stonings, whippings, mutilations and such by the religious authorites on the street and on the TV.
We should offer protection to ALL women who are in danger oof violence, but due to the sometimes wall of silence that some communities put up when such violence occurs, we should target those communites now before it gets out of hand.
[quote][p][bold]mrs walker[/bold] wrote: Misogyny is rife through the three Abrahamic religions; since they were all based on the same foundation, that strand runs through them all. . To me, the bottom line is: some men are violent and misogynistic. End of. In mitigation, some of them do not recognise that they are doing anything wrong. . While religion is used by some to validate their violent actions, atheist and agnostic men have a diferent reasoning that allows them to brutalise their wives and insist on conformity from their daughters. But their excuse is not 'Because God says so' but 'Because I say so'. . Misogyny is wider spread than many of us are prepared to recognise. Yes we can point a finger at Islam, but we should also point a finger at our friends, family members and neighbours and challenge it wherever it is found, otherwise we are hypocrites. The lack of women at top board levels throughout the top British companies speaks volumes, as does the fact that most domestic chores are still done by women - even when both parents are working fulltime. While this does not imply violence, it does imply that we are somehow lesser creatures, incapable of running a business, and that our male counterparts are too good to wield a mop. . If these prejudices are tackled, perhaps more men from every culture will stop treating us like chattels, eye-candy and punchbags, and start viewing us as equal people?[/p][/quote]How can you even to begin to compare the actions of men in this country to the actions of those in Pakistan, for instance. A country which is regarded by some to be about to implode, all due in some great part to the bastardisation of Islamic , and the greed and corruption of some of its more powerful believers, and that of the Army, Politicians and the Police. What good can possibly come in the near future from such a state of affairs. If I was a woman in Pakistan, I would want to leave immediately, even just not to witness the public stonings, whippings, mutilations and such by the religious authorites on the street and on the TV. We should offer protection to ALL women who are in danger oof violence, but due to the sometimes wall of silence that some communities put up when such violence occurs, we should target those communites now before it gets out of hand. bredandbuttered
  • Score: 0

2:59am Tue 8 Mar 11

peterspan says...

Once again some seriously pathetic people on here. Who because they have a problem with Asians and Muslims in particular, sit behind their computer screen and claim it is the duty of Muslim men to abuse their women.

Very simple, i suggest you look at what Islam teaches regarding the treatment of women, and how women were treated not only in the Arab world before Islam, but also in the western world... then come on here and talk about women rights!!!

As for their being a problem in Muslim communities regarding women being abused, yes there is one, is it a common practice in Muslim families? NO. Is there a problem in Christian communities regarding women being abused? Yes there is, and figures show that physical abuse of women is more common in Christian communities than it is in Muslim communities. Why is that? Is it because Christianity advocates the beating of women? NO, just as Islam does not. It has a lot more to do with alcohol and drug abuse. It's down to the individuals and their upbringing, family, etc. and nothng to do with the religion those people follow.

Paedophilia is way more common amongst Christians than it is amongst Muslims or Jews or Hindus or Sikhs... should we launch a campaign for there to be more vigilance around the 'Christian' community for signs of child abuse? Should we bring Christianity in to it?????? what do you say folks???
Once again some seriously pathetic people on here. Who because they have a problem with Asians and Muslims in particular, sit behind their computer screen and claim it is the duty of Muslim men to abuse their women. Very simple, i suggest you look at what Islam teaches regarding the treatment of women, and how women were treated not only in the Arab world before Islam, but also in the western world... then come on here and talk about women rights!!! As for their being a problem in Muslim communities regarding women being abused, yes there is one, is it a common practice in Muslim families? NO. Is there a problem in Christian communities regarding women being abused? Yes there is, and figures show that physical abuse of women is more common in Christian communities than it is in Muslim communities. Why is that? Is it because Christianity advocates the beating of women? NO, just as Islam does not. It has a lot more to do with alcohol and drug abuse. It's down to the individuals and their upbringing, family, etc. and nothng to do with the religion those people follow. Paedophilia is way more common amongst Christians than it is amongst Muslims or Jews or Hindus or Sikhs... should we launch a campaign for there to be more vigilance around the 'Christian' community for signs of child abuse? Should we bring Christianity in to it?????? what do you say folks??? peterspan
  • Score: 0

6:46am Tue 8 Mar 11

albion says...

peterspan wrote:
Once again some seriously pathetic people on here. Who because they have a problem with Asians and Muslims in particular, sit behind their computer screen and claim it is the duty of Muslim men to abuse their women.

Very simple, i suggest you look at what Islam teaches regarding the treatment of women, and how women were treated not only in the Arab world before Islam, but also in the western world... then come on here and talk about women rights!!!

As for their being a problem in Muslim communities regarding women being abused, yes there is one, is it a common practice in Muslim families? NO. Is there a problem in Christian communities regarding women being abused? Yes there is, and figures show that physical abuse of women is more common in Christian communities than it is in Muslim communities. Why is that? Is it because Christianity advocates the beating of women? NO, just as Islam does not. It has a lot more to do with alcohol and drug abuse. It's down to the individuals and their upbringing, family, etc. and nothng to do with the religion those people follow.

Paedophilia is way more common amongst Christians than it is amongst Muslims or Jews or Hindus or Sikhs... should we launch a campaign for there to be more vigilance around the 'Christian' community for signs of child abuse? Should we bring Christianity in to it?????? what do you say folks???
I am not a Christian so I don't respond on there behalf, There have infact been numerous threads over the years dealing with violence of a domestic nature and gender equality all concerning non-Muslim women or just women in general, This report is highlighting a particular problem in a particular section of society, Whatever tit for tat response you come up with is irrelevant to that.
[quote][p][bold]peterspan[/bold] wrote: Once again some seriously pathetic people on here. Who because they have a problem with Asians and Muslims in particular, sit behind their computer screen and claim it is the duty of Muslim men to abuse their women. Very simple, i suggest you look at what Islam teaches regarding the treatment of women, and how women were treated not only in the Arab world before Islam, but also in the western world... then come on here and talk about women rights!!! As for their being a problem in Muslim communities regarding women being abused, yes there is one, is it a common practice in Muslim families? NO. Is there a problem in Christian communities regarding women being abused? Yes there is, and figures show that physical abuse of women is more common in Christian communities than it is in Muslim communities. Why is that? Is it because Christianity advocates the beating of women? NO, just as Islam does not. It has a lot more to do with alcohol and drug abuse. It's down to the individuals and their upbringing, family, etc. and nothng to do with the religion those people follow. Paedophilia is way more common amongst Christians than it is amongst Muslims or Jews or Hindus or Sikhs... should we launch a campaign for there to be more vigilance around the 'Christian' community for signs of child abuse? Should we bring Christianity in to it?????? what do you say folks???[/p][/quote]I am not a Christian so I don't respond on there behalf, There have infact been numerous threads over the years dealing with violence of a domestic nature and gender equality all concerning non-Muslim women or just women in general, This report is highlighting a particular problem in a particular section of society, Whatever tit for tat response you come up with is irrelevant to that. albion
  • Score: 0

3:05pm Tue 8 Mar 11

markjoe says...

mrs walker wrote:
albion wrote:
mrs walker wrote:
Misogyny is rife through the three Abrahamic religions; since they were all based on the same foundation, that strand runs through them all.
.
To me, the bottom line is: some men are violent and misogynistic. End of. In mitigation, some of them do not recognise that they are doing anything wrong.
.
While religion is used by some to validate their violent actions, atheist and agnostic men have a diferent reasoning that allows them to brutalise their wives and insist on conformity from their daughters. But their excuse is not 'Because God says so' but 'Because I say so'.
.
Misogyny is wider spread than many of us are prepared to recognise. Yes we can point a finger at Islam, but we should also point a finger at our friends, family members and neighbours and challenge it wherever it is found, otherwise we are hypocrites. The lack of women at top board levels throughout the top British companies speaks volumes, as does the fact that most domestic chores are still done by women - even when both parents are working fulltime. While this does not imply violence, it does imply that we are somehow lesser creatures, incapable of running a business, and that our male counterparts are too good to wield a mop.
.
If these prejudices are tackled, perhaps more men from every culture will stop treating us like chattels, eye-candy and punchbags, and start viewing us as equal people?
There is no excuse for violence full stop, men who use their strength to physically assault women are often in my view mentally inadequate, but that in itself presents a problem as society is still a long way from defeating or indeed understanding such inadequacies.
This report however is about a certain problem which undoubtedly exists in a certain section of society, so while the points that you raise are obviously of some concern they are not wholly relevant to this particular report (unless of course you were attempting to remove the emphasis on that particular section of society, You wouldn't do that now would you?).
What I would do is highlight our own failings in this area, so that all right-thinking people abhor it for what it is, regardless of the race or religion of the person doing it.
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I was reading an article just today - after I'd posted - that mentioned that '700,000 people will experience domestic violence in the UK, and 90% of them are white British females'.
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Now, right though it is to offer protection and support to young muslim girls, the risk is that in singling out a 'particular section of society', we pat ourselves on the back, tell ourselves that the problem only exists in muslim families, and use it as another excuse to fuel hatred for a different way of life and worship.
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But you wouldn't do that, would you...?
Regarding comment: '90% of them are white British females'. Who says white people can't be Muslim? Also could this figure be due to those who report the abuse, I would think that the number of male being abused by their partners is quite low but the actually number a lot higher. The purpose of Betty Walkers comments is that Muslim women who feel threaten have someone to go an discuss this with it is not about who causes the domestic abuse. Surely everyone should have some where they can talk about this, the Good Samaritans have been there for a long time
[quote][p][bold]mrs walker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]albion[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mrs walker[/bold] wrote: Misogyny is rife through the three Abrahamic religions; since they were all based on the same foundation, that strand runs through them all. . To me, the bottom line is: some men are violent and misogynistic. End of. In mitigation, some of them do not recognise that they are doing anything wrong. . While religion is used by some to validate their violent actions, atheist and agnostic men have a diferent reasoning that allows them to brutalise their wives and insist on conformity from their daughters. But their excuse is not 'Because God says so' but 'Because I say so'. . Misogyny is wider spread than many of us are prepared to recognise. Yes we can point a finger at Islam, but we should also point a finger at our friends, family members and neighbours and challenge it wherever it is found, otherwise we are hypocrites. The lack of women at top board levels throughout the top British companies speaks volumes, as does the fact that most domestic chores are still done by women - even when both parents are working fulltime. While this does not imply violence, it does imply that we are somehow lesser creatures, incapable of running a business, and that our male counterparts are too good to wield a mop. . If these prejudices are tackled, perhaps more men from every culture will stop treating us like chattels, eye-candy and punchbags, and start viewing us as equal people?[/p][/quote]There is no excuse for violence full stop, men who use their strength to physically assault women are often in my view mentally inadequate, but that in itself presents a problem as society is still a long way from defeating or indeed understanding such inadequacies. This report however is about a certain problem which undoubtedly exists in a certain section of society, so while the points that you raise are obviously of some concern they are not wholly relevant to this particular report (unless of course you were attempting to remove the emphasis on that particular section of society, You wouldn't do that now would you?).[/p][/quote]What I would do is highlight our own failings in this area, so that all right-thinking people abhor it for what it is, regardless of the race or religion of the person doing it. . I was reading an article just today - after I'd posted - that mentioned that '700,000 people will experience domestic violence in the UK, and 90% of them are white British females'. . Now, right though it is to offer protection and support to young muslim girls, the risk is that in singling out a 'particular section of society', we pat ourselves on the back, tell ourselves that the problem only exists in muslim families, and use it as another excuse to fuel hatred for a different way of life and worship. . But you wouldn't do that, would you...?[/p][/quote]Regarding comment: '90% of them are white British females'. Who says white people can't be Muslim? Also could this figure be due to those who report the abuse, I would think that the number of male being abused by their partners is quite low but the actually number a lot higher. The purpose of Betty Walkers comments is that Muslim women who feel threaten have someone to go an discuss this with it is not about who causes the domestic abuse. Surely everyone should have some where they can talk about this, the Good Samaritans have been there for a long time markjoe
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4:07pm Tue 8 Mar 11

albion says...

"The purpose of Betty Walkers comments is that Muslim women who feel threaten have someone to go an discuss this with it is not about who causes the domestic abuse"
I think you mean Betty Williams (understandable confusion there).
"The purpose of Betty Walkers comments is that Muslim women who feel threaten have someone to go an discuss this with it is not about who causes the domestic abuse" I think you mean Betty Williams (understandable confusion there). albion
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12:17pm Thu 10 Mar 11

markjoe says...

Ooops, yes it was suppose to be Williams
Ooops, yes it was suppose to be Williams markjoe
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12:18pm Thu 10 Mar 11

markjoe says...

Ooops, yes it was supposed to be Williams
Ooops, yes it was supposed to be Williams markjoe
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11:15am Fri 11 Mar 11

JREWING says...

Albion it is always so interesting your remarks when it comes to this subject
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You are quick to quote religious scripture but when it is thrown back at you, your usual response is that you believe none of that stuff anyway. If you don't believe that stuff why quote it?
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All religious scripture can be quoted negatively - this has been established in many threads, so if that is the case - when does it cease to be tit for tat? When it suits you?
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Secondly - just because Betty has decided to bring up this "issue" does it make it true? Legitimate, factual?
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The only way these things can be debated by people who CHOOSE to hate Islam or CHOOSE to depict it as threatening, violent, misogynistic is to draw parallels with other religions, other societies....
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However when these parallels are demonstrated, factually and evidentially people like you see that as "tit for tat".
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All religions and all societies have their own issues. I have said it before and I will say it again, even though the bigotry that Williams was a victim of, continues from the same people, week in week out.

As far as the other poster is concerned... before I draw the parallels please qualify your post . . .
maim, kill, throw acid at, subjugate, terrorise, kidnap and oppress any woman not doing exactly as they're told. (Is this exclusively Islamic - If you think it is come back at me.)



Democracy and freedom have no place whatsoever in the sharia driven caliphate of the Bradford suburbs (Do you really believe this?)

except of course the democratic freedom to yell 'racist oppressor' at anyone who questions this. (Are there no Muslim Democracies?, is not right to call a spade a spade, and an ignorant racist like you- just that?)
Albion it is always so interesting your remarks when it comes to this subject . You are quick to quote religious scripture but when it is thrown back at you, your usual response is that you believe none of that stuff anyway. If you don't believe that stuff why quote it? . All religious scripture can be quoted negatively - this has been established in many threads, so if that is the case - when does it cease to be tit for tat? When it suits you? . Secondly - just because Betty has decided to bring up this "issue" does it make it true? Legitimate, factual? . The only way these things can be debated by people who CHOOSE to hate Islam or CHOOSE to depict it as threatening, violent, misogynistic is to draw parallels with other religions, other societies.... . However when these parallels are demonstrated, factually and evidentially people like you see that as "tit for tat". . All religions and all societies have their own issues. I have said it before and I will say it again, even though the bigotry that Williams was a victim of, continues from the same people, week in week out. As far as the other poster is concerned... before I draw the parallels please qualify your post . . . maim, kill, throw acid at, subjugate, terrorise, kidnap and oppress any woman not doing exactly as they're told. (Is this exclusively Islamic - If you think it is come back at me.) Democracy and freedom have no place whatsoever in the sharia driven caliphate of the Bradford suburbs (Do you really believe this?) except of course the democratic freedom to yell 'racist oppressor' at anyone who questions this. (Are there no Muslim Democracies?, is not right to call a spade a spade, and an ignorant racist like you- just that?) JREWING
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11:26am Fri 11 Mar 11

JREWING says...

albion wrote:
peterspan wrote:
Once again some seriously pathetic people on here. Who because they have a problem with Asians and Muslims in particular, sit behind their computer screen and claim it is the duty of Muslim men to abuse their women.

Very simple, i suggest you look at what Islam teaches regarding the treatment of women, and how women were treated not only in the Arab world before Islam, but also in the western world... then come on here and talk about women rights!!!

As for their being a problem in Muslim communities regarding women being abused, yes there is one, is it a common practice in Muslim families? NO. Is there a problem in Christian communities regarding women being abused? Yes there is, and figures show that physical abuse of women is more common in Christian communities than it is in Muslim communities. Why is that? Is it because Christianity advocates the beating of women? NO, just as Islam does not. It has a lot more to do with alcohol and drug abuse. It's down to the individuals and their upbringing, family, etc. and nothng to do with the religion those people follow.

Paedophilia is way more common amongst Christians than it is amongst Muslims or Jews or Hindus or Sikhs... should we launch a campaign for there to be more vigilance around the 'Christian' community for signs of child abuse? Should we bring Christianity in to it?????? what do you say folks???
I am not a Christian so I don't respond on there behalf, There have infact been numerous threads over the years dealing with violence of a domestic nature and gender equality all concerning non-Muslim women or just women in general, This report is highlighting a particular problem in a particular section of society, Whatever tit for tat response you come up with is irrelevant to that.
Oh no your don't Albion, in the last few weeks, there have been stories about "grooming", specifically using that word, rape, incest, murder, drug dealing - all concerning white, indigineous people.
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BUT if the same stories concerned people who had ethnic sounding names - you would take the "Muslim mantle" protecting the poor Muslim women who are suffering at the hands of the Muslim Caliphate, the Imams and the testestorone driven males who enjoy BEATING their women.
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That is racist, because you are judging one group of people with different values than another.
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It is racist because you discount the problems in other societies, and make them exclusive to one group of people.
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YOU ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE - BUT - there are a billion Muslims walking this earth - if you seriously believe they all follow one Sharia law, dress the same, beat the women the same, hate the same - and all crowd together in one room conspiring to undermine Western society - you seriously need to take a long hard look at yourselves.
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Has the last few weeks - pro democracy protests - not taught you that Muslims want the same things as most people?
[quote][p][bold]albion[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]peterspan[/bold] wrote: Once again some seriously pathetic people on here. Who because they have a problem with Asians and Muslims in particular, sit behind their computer screen and claim it is the duty of Muslim men to abuse their women. Very simple, i suggest you look at what Islam teaches regarding the treatment of women, and how women were treated not only in the Arab world before Islam, but also in the western world... then come on here and talk about women rights!!! As for their being a problem in Muslim communities regarding women being abused, yes there is one, is it a common practice in Muslim families? NO. Is there a problem in Christian communities regarding women being abused? Yes there is, and figures show that physical abuse of women is more common in Christian communities than it is in Muslim communities. Why is that? Is it because Christianity advocates the beating of women? NO, just as Islam does not. It has a lot more to do with alcohol and drug abuse. It's down to the individuals and their upbringing, family, etc. and nothng to do with the religion those people follow. Paedophilia is way more common amongst Christians than it is amongst Muslims or Jews or Hindus or Sikhs... should we launch a campaign for there to be more vigilance around the 'Christian' community for signs of child abuse? Should we bring Christianity in to it?????? what do you say folks???[/p][/quote]I am not a Christian so I don't respond on there behalf, There have infact been numerous threads over the years dealing with violence of a domestic nature and gender equality all concerning non-Muslim women or just women in general, This report is highlighting a particular problem in a particular section of society, Whatever tit for tat response you come up with is irrelevant to that.[/p][/quote]Oh no your don't Albion, in the last few weeks, there have been stories about "grooming", specifically using that word, rape, incest, murder, drug dealing - all concerning white, indigineous people. . BUT if the same stories concerned people who had ethnic sounding names - you would take the "Muslim mantle" protecting the poor Muslim women who are suffering at the hands of the Muslim Caliphate, the Imams and the testestorone driven males who enjoy BEATING their women. . That is racist, because you are judging one group of people with different values than another. . It is racist because you discount the problems in other societies, and make them exclusive to one group of people. . YOU ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE - BUT - there are a billion Muslims walking this earth - if you seriously believe they all follow one Sharia law, dress the same, beat the women the same, hate the same - and all crowd together in one room conspiring to undermine Western society - you seriously need to take a long hard look at yourselves. . Has the last few weeks - pro democracy protests - not taught you that Muslims want the same things as most people? JREWING
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