Education cuts 'hit interpreters in Bradford schools' (From Bradford Telegraph and Argus)
Get involved: send your pictures, video, news and views by texting TANEWS to 80360, or email
Union branch secretary Ian Murch says teachers face bigger challenge from pupils with English as a second language
7:30am Monday 4th July 2011 in News By Ben Barnett
Adeeba Malik, deputy chief executive of Bradford-based development agency QED
Tighter school budgets are causing greater challenges to schools where significant numbers of pupils speak English as a second language, it is claimed.
Ian Murch, Bradford branch secretary for the National Union of Teachers, said some schools had lost interpreter services due to staff cuts.
Some 28,000 children in the Bradford district do not speak English as their first language, representing 43 per cent of primary school pupils and a third of secondary school pupils, according to new figures published by the Department for Education.
Mr Murch said recent influxes of families from European countries was making the problem more acute.
“It’s a challenge for teachers, but it’s not a new problem and it’s one that is accelerated by the number of different home languages,” he said.
“It makes it more likely that schools won’t be able to communicate with the families via an interpreter or someone who works on the school staff.
“The cuts to central services that the Government has made have made it a lot harder to keep staff that they could use in these circumstances.”
Last week, Keighley MP Kris Hopkins accused parents of failing to ensure their children spoke good English.
Adeeba Malik, deputy chief executive of Bradford-based development agency QED, said more could be done at home to promote good English-speaking so that children had better prospects.
She said: “I think there’s generally a problem about the level of spoken English everywhere across the district. Young children need to be at a certain level and I’m surprised by now that the statistics are so high."
- Read the full story Monday’s T&A
Comments(70)
BertSanders
says...
11:39am Mon 4 Jul 11
Children who use Bradford Schools must speak English and it is their parents who are responsible to ensure that they do.
If they want to speak in their native
language then they have the right to leave to go to a country that is suitable.
We should not provide interpreters and neither should they be allowed to retard other children who do speak English.
If they want to speak in their native
language then they have the right to leave to go to a country that is suitable.
We should not provide interpreters and neither should they be allowed to retard other children who do speak English.
Hitting Back!
says...
11:39am Mon 4 Jul 11
eldraco wrote:I agree that there shouldn't be any reason why children going to school in this country are unable to speak the language.
Don't know why I logged in to comment as anything I say would probably result in a back lash of being accused of being racist. That aside, I assume that the majority of school chidren that are affected by the inability to speak English were actually born here in the UK so why do we/they have this problem? I'm happy to be educated on this point...
But, wait and see the racists as you put express their narrow minded views.
I don't accuse you of any racism because you make a good point, but the usual suspects will place all the blame on one community.
However I believe these kids actually speak the english language a lot better than say five or ten years ago, without doubt!
Yes, one parent many be unable to speak english but the other is usually very good and the former has plenty of opportuntiy to improve his/her skills... and the facts suggest this to be the case.
Anyway... brace yourself for the backlash...
Albion.
says...
11:47am Mon 4 Jul 11
I should imagine that the problem has increased lately with the influx of new members of the EU, many of whom speak very little English and as a result neither do their children, There are still some people who neglect to ensure that their children attend school with a reasonable understanding of the language even though they have been here years or were born here.
eldraco
says...
11:48am Mon 4 Jul 11
not sure if I understand your post where you say "But, wait and see the racists as you put express their narrow minded views." To clarify, I am not racist. My point of view is one of astonishment that there is such a linguistic problem in the first place amongst yougsters presumably born and raised in the UK. As a point of interest, a former partner of mine was Spanish, born in the UK and it was a case of the Spanish language and culture at home and the English language at school and outside of the home. It seemed to work for her and she gained a first class honours degree from Aston University in Anceint and Modern History. Just saying; you don't need to lose who who are and where you are from purely because of where you or your parents have chosen to settle.
Patrick Bateman
says...
12:04pm Mon 4 Jul 11
"Adeeba Malik, deputy chief executive of Bradford-based development agency QED, said:
.
.
'more could be done at home to promote good English-speaking so that children had better prospects'.
.
Hear, hear.
.
.
' I think there’s generally a problem about the level of spoken English everywhere across the district'.
.
.
Where does she get that from? In some areas without doubt; but all? There's no point in being disingenuous about it, the article already makes it clear where you're likely to find the problem areas (i.e. areas of a high migrant concentration). That clearly doesn't translate to 'everywhere across the district' does it?
.
.
'more could be done at home to promote good English-speaking so that children had better prospects'.
.
Hear, hear.
.
.
' I think there’s generally a problem about the level of spoken English everywhere across the district'.
.
.
Where does she get that from? In some areas without doubt; but all? There's no point in being disingenuous about it, the article already makes it clear where you're likely to find the problem areas (i.e. areas of a high migrant concentration). That clearly doesn't translate to 'everywhere across the district' does it?
Albion.
says...
12:06pm Mon 4 Jul 11
Patrick Bateman wrote:Not yet!
"Adeeba Malik, deputy chief executive of Bradford-based development agency QED, said:
.
.
'more could be done at home to promote good English-speaking so that children had better prospects'.
.
Hear, hear.
.
.
' I think there’s generally a problem about the level of spoken English everywhere across the district'.
.
.
Where does she get that from? In some areas without doubt; but all? There's no point in being disingenuous about it, the article already makes it clear where you're likely to find the problem areas (i.e. areas of a high migrant concentration). That clearly doesn't translate to 'everywhere across the district' does it?
Mekon
says...
12:17pm Mon 4 Jul 11
Children are like sponges, in the skid my kids goes to a polish girl was speaking and writing english within 6 mths. Guess what, they don't employ an interpreter.
Patrick Bateman
says...
12:19pm Mon 4 Jul 11
Albion. wrote:Mm..you have a point: maybe we should credit her for her 'forward-thinking' on the issue. Clearly she must know 'which way the wind is blowing'..
Patrick Bateman wrote:Not yet!
"Adeeba Malik, deputy chief executive of Bradford-based development agency QED, said:
.
.
'more could be done at home to promote good English-speaking so that children had better prospects'.
.
Hear, hear.
.
.
' I think there’s generally a problem about the level of spoken English everywhere across the district'.
.
.
Where does she get that from? In some areas without doubt; but all? There's no point in being disingenuous about it, the article already makes it clear where you're likely to find the problem areas (i.e. areas of a high migrant concentration). That clearly doesn't translate to 'everywhere across the district' does it?
Thee Voice of Reason
says...
12:33pm Mon 4 Jul 11
I'm glad these costs are being cut back as the taxpayer should not fit the bill because parents haven't bothered to teach the children the language of the country which they live.
.
It's crazy that it's coming to the stage where we might need a translator for Urdu, Polish, Bulgarian, Romanian, etc, etc in just one class room.
.
I witnessed just the other day, the delay of an operation in hospital by 3 hours because the Cech translator didn't show up. A whole theatre on shutdown waiting for a translator, it's insane.
.
It's crazy that it's coming to the stage where we might need a translator for Urdu, Polish, Bulgarian, Romanian, etc, etc in just one class room.
.
I witnessed just the other day, the delay of an operation in hospital by 3 hours because the Cech translator didn't show up. A whole theatre on shutdown waiting for a translator, it's insane.
JP Morgan and Chase
says...
1:00pm Mon 4 Jul 11
My parents couldn't speak English when I was growing up; there was no help given at home; just at the schools.
.
I (like many others) have done pretty well, methinks.
.
What the hell's happened since?!
.
I (like many others) have done pretty well, methinks.
.
What the hell's happened since?!
freespeech
says...
1:12pm Mon 4 Jul 11
Language has nothing to do with being racist, its a cop out by the ignorant to further support those that refused to speak the national tongue of this great nation. We are in England, where out language is English, it is not too much to expect others to speak English in England is it? Especially on the grounds that we are an integrated society..
Thee Voice of Reason
says...
1:17pm Mon 4 Jul 11
freespeech wrote:The race card will come out all the time.
Language has nothing to do with being racist, its a cop out by the ignorant to further support those that refused to speak the national tongue of this great nation. We are in England, where out language is English, it is not too much to expect others to speak English in England is it? Especially on the grounds that we are an integrated society..
.
Some numpty is calling me a racist for questioning why we can't afford to keep Manningham Pool open but we can afford various other things in that area, including a peace garden and Mosque car park extention. We would prioritise things. Why is a garden needed, when there in Manningham park in walking distance? Why does a Mosque car park require extending when the area can cope with 10,000 football fans every two weeks? Why is the pool being overlooked for these schemes because once it's gone the grade II listed building will be another Odeon.
.
I suppose it's easier to cry racist than actually address the points.
JP Morgan and Chase
says...
1:25pm Mon 4 Jul 11
freespeech wrote:Try telling that to the British ex-pats who live in Spain.
Language has nothing to do with being racist, its a cop out by the ignorant to further support those that refused to speak the national tongue of this great nation. We are in England, where out language is English, it is not too much to expect others to speak English in England is it? Especially on the grounds that we are an integrated society..
.
Who like to have their own communities instead of integrating; who prefer to speak their own language as opposed to the (language) of the country they're living in.
.
Pretty ironic and hypocritical, don't you think? - since it's these kind of people that'll be the first to bleat on about why immigrants don't assimilate etc..
Thee Voice of Reason
says...
1:30pm Mon 4 Jul 11
JP Morgan and Chase wrote:What ex-pats do abroad may also be wrong but two wrongs don't make a right.
freespeech wrote: Language has nothing to do with being racist, its a cop out by the ignorant to further support those that refused to speak the national tongue of this great nation. We are in England, where out language is English, it is not too much to expect others to speak English in England is it? Especially on the grounds that we are an integrated society..Try telling that to the British ex-pats who live in Spain. . Who like to have their own communities instead of integrating; who prefer to speak their own language as opposed to the (language) of the country they're living in. . Pretty ironic and hypocritical, don't you think? - since it's these kind of people that'll be the first to bleat on about why immigrants don't assimilate etc..
.
So what is your point as some Brits abroad doesn't change the problem we have here.
spark9990
says...
1:40pm Mon 4 Jul 11
eldraco wrote:Your presumption is wrong. Its not the children who are born in the uk with the language issues its mainly the European immigrants (or it is in the school I work in). We need to hire a handful of translators are they all speak different languages or have different dialects. Sometimes its so bad that they sadly have to be lumped together into one or two classrooms so the other children can continue.
not sure if I understand your post where you say "But, wait and see the racists as you put express their narrow minded views." To clarify, I am not racist. My point of view is one of astonishment that there is such a linguistic problem in the first place amongst yougsters presumably born and raised in the UK. As a point of interest, a former partner of mine was Spanish, born in the UK and it was a case of the Spanish language and culture at home and the English language at school and outside of the home. It seemed to work for her and she gained a first class honours degree from Aston University in Anceint and Modern History. Just saying; you don't need to lose who who are and where you are from purely because of where you or your parents have chosen to settle.
Hitting Back!
says...
1:43pm Mon 4 Jul 11
Patrick Bateman wrote:She talks about the "level" of spoken english.
"Adeeba Malik, deputy chief executive of Bradford-based development agency QED, said: . . 'more could be done at home to promote good English-speaking so that children had better prospects'. . Hear, hear. . . ' I think there’s generally a problem about the level of spoken English everywhere across the district'. . . Where does she get that from? In some areas without doubt; but all? There's no point in being disingenuous about it, the article already makes it clear where you're likely to find the problem areas (i.e. areas of a high migrant concentration). That clearly doesn't translate to 'everywhere across the district' does it?
In areas like holmewood this is definitely a problem wouldn't you agree? And there isn't a high level of migrants in these areas!
But let's not dwell on that because all the world's problems are down to one community...
Thee Voice of Reason
says...
1:54pm Mon 4 Jul 11
Hitting Back! wrote:It's easy to play the race card then fall back on the Holmewood example but reading the story above, it talks of translators and I don't think the people of Holmewood actually require translators.
Patrick Bateman wrote: "Adeeba Malik, deputy chief executive of Bradford-based development agency QED, said: . . 'more could be done at home to promote good English-speaking so that children had better prospects'. . Hear, hear. . . ' I think there’s generally a problem about the level of spoken English everywhere across the district'. . . Where does she get that from? In some areas without doubt; but all? There's no point in being disingenuous about it, the article already makes it clear where you're likely to find the problem areas (i.e. areas of a high migrant concentration). That clearly doesn't translate to 'everywhere across the district' does it?She talks about the "level" of spoken english. In areas like holmewood this is definitely a problem wouldn't you agree? And there isn't a high level of migrants in these areas! But let's not dwell on that because all the world's problems are down to one community...
.
43% of primary school children don't speak English as a first language, as it's primary school it seems to me these people are born here, be it Indian, Pakistani, Polish, Romanian, Latvian, etc, etc.
Hitting Back!
says...
2:03pm Mon 4 Jul 11
Hmm, good point...
Hitting Back!
says...
2:17pm Mon 4 Jul 11
Thee Voice of Reason wrote:It was pointed out by the poster that the lady's comments are incorrect, but I beg to differ.
Hitting Back! wrote:It's easy to play the race card then fall back on the Holmewood example but reading the story above, it talks of translators and I don't think the people of Holmewood actually require translators. . 43% of primary school children don't speak English as a first language, as it's primary school it seems to me these people are born here, be it Indian, Pakistani, Polish, Romanian, Latvian, etc, etc.Patrick Bateman wrote: "Adeeba Malik, deputy chief executive of Bradford-based development agency QED, said: . . 'more could be done at home to promote good English-speaking so that children had better prospects'. . Hear, hear. . . ' I think there’s generally a problem about the level of spoken English everywhere across the district'. . . Where does she get that from? In some areas without doubt; but all? There's no point in being disingenuous about it, the article already makes it clear where you're likely to find the problem areas (i.e. areas of a high migrant concentration). That clearly doesn't translate to 'everywhere across the district' does it?She talks about the "level" of spoken english. In areas like holmewood this is definitely a problem wouldn't you agree? And there isn't a high level of migrants in these areas! But let's not dwell on that because all the world's problems are down to one community...
As I say the "level" of spoken english in certain areas of bradford, both english and non-english leaves a lot to be desired.
But the poster seems to suggest the problem of "level" of english only lies within migrant communities.
Thee Voice of Reason
says...
2:24pm Mon 4 Jul 11
There are areas of Bradford where the English spoken by English people leaves alot to desired, you won't hear me argue against that.
.
The story in question is about the fact school budgets are spent on translators. Money is tight in schools without spending more on translators to cater for those who's parents who really should be giving them the best start in life by teaching them English at home.
.
The story in question is about the fact school budgets are spent on translators. Money is tight in schools without spending more on translators to cater for those who's parents who really should be giving them the best start in life by teaching them English at home.
Yorkshire Lass
says...
2:36pm Mon 4 Jul 11
Hitting Back! wrote:Nothing to do with racism but this is fact. Most of the country is facing cutbacks for many different reasons. Bradford council will have chosen to cut back on interpretors. I do not think this is a bad idea in view of the very many children now in Bradford who do not speak English as their first language. Surely someone in these quite large families does speak English, mother or father or siblings, so why can't other family members speak on their behalf, saving a lot of money in the process?
eldraco wrote:I agree that there shouldn't be any reason why children going to school in this country are unable to speak the language.
Don't know why I logged in to comment as anything I say would probably result in a back lash of being accused of being racist. That aside, I assume that the majority of school chidren that are affected by the inability to speak English were actually born here in the UK so why do we/they have this problem? I'm happy to be educated on this point...
But, wait and see the racists as you put express their narrow minded views.
I don't accuse you of any racism because you make a good point, but the usual suspects will place all the blame on one community.
However I believe these kids actually speak the english language a lot better than say five or ten years ago, without doubt!
Yes, one parent many be unable to speak english but the other is usually very good and the former has plenty of opportuntiy to improve his/her skills... and the facts suggest this to be the case.
Anyway... brace yourself for the backlash...
That surely would be a win, win situation.
Hitting Back!
says...
2:42pm Mon 4 Jul 11
eldraco wrote:I did not accuse you of being racist, and apologies if you thought this to be the case.
not sure if I understand your post where you say "But, wait and see the racists as you put express their narrow minded views." To clarify, I am not racist. My point of view is one of astonishment that there is such a linguistic problem in the first place amongst yougsters presumably born and raised in the UK. As a point of interest, a former partner of mine was Spanish, born in the UK and it was a case of the Spanish language and culture at home and the English language at school and outside of the home. It seemed to work for her and she gained a first class honours degree from Aston University in Anceint and Modern History. Just saying; you don't need to lose who who are and where you are from purely because of where you or your parents have chosen to settle.
I, and many others like me, have worked our way to good degrees and subsequently reputable jobs off the back of little english langauge skills at the beginning.
However, as previously mentioned kids from migrant communities these days tend to speak a lot better english than back then and I challenge ignorant posters to perhaps visit these areas to see for themselves.
Some posters are too ignorant to acknowledge this and continously put down my community, religion, etc.
It is out of order and the irony is that when you stand up to these pathetic people they claim we are playing the race card!
Hitting Back!
says...
2:50pm Mon 4 Jul 11
Thee Voice of Reason wrote:The story is indeed about translators.
There are areas of Bradford where the English spoken by English people leaves alot to desired, you won't hear me argue against that. . The story in question is about the fact school budgets are spent on translators. Money is tight in schools without spending more on translators to cater for those who's parents who really should be giving them the best start in life by teaching them English at home.
But bateman wished to pick out the lady's comments as if to say that the problem only lies with migrant communities.
However if he had actually read the qoute in detail he would have realised exactly what she was talking about, i.e. the "level" of spoken english, but it appears he was just keen to express his usual views.
I merely wish to highlight the incorrect assumption bateman reached in his haste to post the usual stuff he does...
Hitting Back!
says...
2:53pm Mon 4 Jul 11
Yorkshire Lass wrote:I honestly believe in the asian community the language skills are nowhere near as big an issue as five or ten years ago.
Hitting Back! wrote:Nothing to do with racism but this is fact. Most of the country is facing cutbacks for many different reasons. Bradford council will have chosen to cut back on interpretors. I do not think this is a bad idea in view of the very many children now in Bradford who do not speak English as their first language. Surely someone in these quite large families does speak English, mother or father or siblings, so why can't other family members speak on their behalf, saving a lot of money in the process? That surely would be a win, win situation.eldraco wrote: Don't know why I logged in to comment as anything I say would probably result in a back lash of being accused of being racist. That aside, I assume that the majority of school chidren that are affected by the inability to speak English were actually born here in the UK so why do we/they have this problem? I'm happy to be educated on this point...I agree that there shouldn't be any reason why children going to school in this country are unable to speak the language. But, wait and see the racists as you put express their narrow minded views. I don't accuse you of any racism because you make a good point, but the usual suspects will place all the blame on one community. However I believe these kids actually speak the english language a lot better than say five or ten years ago, without doubt! Yes, one parent many be unable to speak english but the other is usually very good and the former has plenty of opportuntiy to improve his/her skills... and the facts suggest this to be the case. Anyway... brace yourself for the backlash...
I don't wish to place blame but the influx of eastern europeans is definitely a big factor in all this.
Albion.
says...
3:17pm Mon 4 Jul 11
Hitting Back! wrote:If you read the opening paragraphs of the report Ian Murch does say that the main areas are those of high immigrant influx.
Thee Voice of Reason wrote:The story is indeed about translators.
There are areas of Bradford where the English spoken by English people leaves alot to desired, you won't hear me argue against that. . The story in question is about the fact school budgets are spent on translators. Money is tight in schools without spending more on translators to cater for those who's parents who really should be giving them the best start in life by teaching them English at home.
But bateman wished to pick out the lady's comments as if to say that the problem only lies with migrant communities.
However if he had actually read the qoute in detail he would have realised exactly what she was talking about, i.e. the "level" of spoken english, but it appears he was just keen to express his usual views.
I merely wish to highlight the incorrect assumption bateman reached in his haste to post the usual stuff he does...
"But bateman wished to pick out the lady's comments as if to say that the problem only lies with migrant communities."
There might be a number of children whose parentage isn't recent immigrant (well one of them at least) but I doubt that their numbers are particularly great or that they require an interpreter (extra coaching maybe and the parents have no excuse for that other than lazyness). Areas where there are few or no immigrants such as many of the outer regions and towns and villages don't require this service.
All of which leads me to believe that you are trying to make more of this than he probably meant you to, or at least that is how it appears to me.
With reference to one of your other posts, I have the right to comment on anyone's religion and make my views known (we don't yet lynch people for criticising someone who has been dead for one and a half thousand years or two thousand come to that).
Back on topic, My own view is that if a child needs an interpreter the parents should have to pay for it (whoever they are).
Albion.
says...
3:18pm Mon 4 Jul 11
Hitting Back! wrote:Very much so, as I said in my first post.
Yorkshire Lass wrote:I honestly believe in the asian community the language skills are nowhere near as big an issue as five or ten years ago.
Hitting Back! wrote:Nothing to do with racism but this is fact. Most of the country is facing cutbacks for many different reasons. Bradford council will have chosen to cut back on interpretors. I do not think this is a bad idea in view of the very many children now in Bradford who do not speak English as their first language. Surely someone in these quite large families does speak English, mother or father or siblings, so why can't other family members speak on their behalf, saving a lot of money in the process? That surely would be a win, win situation.eldraco wrote: Don't know why I logged in to comment as anything I say would probably result in a back lash of being accused of being racist. That aside, I assume that the majority of school chidren that are affected by the inability to speak English were actually born here in the UK so why do we/they have this problem? I'm happy to be educated on this point...I agree that there shouldn't be any reason why children going to school in this country are unable to speak the language. But, wait and see the racists as you put express their narrow minded views. I don't accuse you of any racism because you make a good point, but the usual suspects will place all the blame on one community. However I believe these kids actually speak the english language a lot better than say five or ten years ago, without doubt! Yes, one parent many be unable to speak english but the other is usually very good and the former has plenty of opportuntiy to improve his/her skills... and the facts suggest this to be the case. Anyway... brace yourself for the backlash...
I don't wish to place blame but the influx of eastern europeans is definitely a big factor in all this.
bradford rose
says...
5:15pm Mon 4 Jul 11
Hitting Back! wrote:Have you been going around Holmewood observing and listening to how English is spoken there?
Patrick Bateman wrote: "Adeeba Malik, deputy chief executive of Bradford-based development agency QED, said: . . 'more could be done at home to promote good English-speaking so that children had better prospects'. . Hear, hear. . . ' I think there’s generally a problem about the level of spoken English everywhere across the district'. . . Where does she get that from? In some areas without doubt; but all? There's no point in being disingenuous about it, the article already makes it clear where you're likely to find the problem areas (i.e. areas of a high migrant concentration). That clearly doesn't translate to 'everywhere across the district' does it?She talks about the "level" of spoken english. In areas like holmewood this is definitely a problem wouldn't you agree? And there isn't a high level of migrants in these areas! But let's not dwell on that because all the world's problems are down to one community...
Just what is it with you people and your fixation with Holmewood?
Quite obviously this issue is about the children from immigrant communities where English isn't the mother tongue.
It's not about children who speak the local dialect as opposed to the Queen's English, which incidentally there is nothing wrong with.
Whenever the slightest criticism is levelled at your community why do you people always have to revert to mudslinging at those who you quite mistakenly think are inferior to you?
Colin Allcars
says...
6:05pm Mon 4 Jul 11
JP Morgan and Chase wrote:Do you mean the ex-pats who pay their own way in Spain and bring money into the country not send benefit money out via 'moneyshops' as in Bradford.
freespeech wrote: Language has nothing to do with being racist, its a cop out by the ignorant to further support those that refused to speak the national tongue of this great nation. We are in England, where out language is English, it is not too much to expect others to speak English in England is it? Especially on the grounds that we are an integrated society..Try telling that to the British ex-pats who live in Spain. . Who like to have their own communities instead of integrating; who prefer to speak their own language as opposed to the (language) of the country they're living in. . Pretty ironic and hypocritical, don't you think? - since it's these kind of people that'll be the first to bleat on about why immigrants don't assimilate etc..
Perhaps you mean the ones who haven't gone out there to retire (and be self-sufficient and not claim hand-outs after contributing nothing)? Those that work there and take their young families see it as a great advantage to learn Spanish.
You will hear Pakistanis speaking English better on news items on the BBC than you do in Bradford. But then that is the point of not learning English, it helps maintain the urdu interpretor industry that is so vital to Bradford. Who knows in a 100 years we might not need it anymore...or then again!
JP Morgan and Chase
says...
6:58pm Mon 4 Jul 11
Colin Allcars wrote:Same could be applied to the many immigrants in the UK who have paid their taxes (and continue to do so); who make an excellent contribution to the economy (via the many restaurants, takeaways etc.. they have).
JP Morgan and Chase wrote:Do you mean the ex-pats who pay their own way in Spain and bring money into the country not send benefit money out via 'moneyshops' as in Bradford.
freespeech wrote: Language has nothing to do with being racist, its a cop out by the ignorant to further support those that refused to speak the national tongue of this great nation. We are in England, where out language is English, it is not too much to expect others to speak English in England is it? Especially on the grounds that we are an integrated society..Try telling that to the British ex-pats who live in Spain. . Who like to have their own communities instead of integrating; who prefer to speak their own language as opposed to the (language) of the country they're living in. . Pretty ironic and hypocritical, don't you think? - since it's these kind of people that'll be the first to bleat on about why immigrants don't assimilate etc..
Perhaps you mean the ones who haven't gone out there to retire (and be self-sufficient and not claim hand-outs after contributing nothing)? Those that work there and take their young families see it as a great advantage to learn Spanish.
You will hear Pakistanis speaking English better on news items on the BBC than you do in Bradford. But then that is the point of not learning English, it helps maintain the urdu interpretor industry that is so vital to Bradford. Who knows in a 100 years we might not need it anymore...or then again!
.
Compare that with the majority of the indigenous population in certain areas, who are living the only life they know: that of scamming the State via benefit fraud..
mrs walker
says...
6:59pm Mon 4 Jul 11
spark9990 wrote:Spark 9990, it appears that your comment was missed by a number of contributors so I thought I'd give them the opportunity to read it again. Perhaps they'll read it this tiime. *sigh*
eldraco wrote:Your presumption is wrong. Its not the children who are born in the uk with the language issues its mainly the European immigrants (or it is in the school I work in). We need to hire a handful of translators are they all speak different languages or have different dialects. Sometimes its so bad that they sadly have to be lumped together into one or two classrooms so the other children can continue.
not sure if I understand your post where you say "But, wait and see the racists as you put express their narrow minded views." To clarify, I am not racist. My point of view is one of astonishment that there is such a linguistic problem in the first place amongst yougsters presumably born and raised in the UK. As a point of interest, a former partner of mine was Spanish, born in the UK and it was a case of the Spanish language and culture at home and the English language at school and outside of the home. It seemed to work for her and she gained a first class honours degree from Aston University in Anceint and Modern History. Just saying; you don't need to lose who who are and where you are from purely because of where you or your parents have chosen to settle.
JP Morgan and Chase
says...
7:01pm Mon 4 Jul 11
Thanks for the highlight, Mrs Walker :)
mrs walker
says...
7:56pm Mon 4 Jul 11
JP, I lived on a council estate for years, and I was on benefits. It was renowned for being a tough place to live. People who lived there couldn't get jobs because employers automatically discriminated against them just because of their address. Discrimination sucks. You know that. If you keep fighting fire with fire, we'll have no beautiful trees left. That's my analogy anyway. Make of it what you will...
dannbradfc
says...
8:29pm Mon 4 Jul 11
JP Morgan and Chase wrote:those ex-pats probably have the money and means to look after themselves and are not ECONOMIC migrants. Should they then need or want to learn Spanish they would then simply learn the language.
freespeech wrote:Try telling that to the British ex-pats who live in Spain.
Language has nothing to do with being racist, its a cop out by the ignorant to further support those that refused to speak the national tongue of this great nation. We are in England, where out language is English, it is not too much to expect others to speak English in England is it? Especially on the grounds that we are an integrated society..
.
Who like to have their own communities instead of integrating; who prefer to speak their own language as opposed to the (language) of the country they're living in.
.
Pretty ironic and hypocritical, don't you think? - since it's these kind of people that'll be the first to bleat on about why immigrants don't assimilate etc..
What we have here is entirely different. As those not/refusing to speak English mostly don't have the finnancial backing ex-pats do and have different motives for been here. What the article is saying is that Bradford's migrants will find it difficult to proper outside of their own community and are hindering their own progress by not been able to speak or pass exams etc etc.
Ex-pats sat in the sun in paid for homes (out of their own money and not the Spanish government) don't have this problem. Ultimately they have a choice in the matter. Simarlarly so do the 3rd generation communities of Brasdford. However the continued discrimination of women/females in certain communties ensure that they do not already speak English, even taken out of school early so that they are then totally reliant on the males. They can also only then only communicate in their 'native' tongue. Its a feudal patriarchal system and language is a powerful means in this process.
JP Morgan and Chase
says...
9:14pm Mon 4 Jul 11
mrs walker wrote:Apologies if I went off on a tangent, Mrs. W (it was unintentional); and again, I take on board what you've said.
JP, I lived on a council estate for years, and I was on benefits. It was renowned for being a tough place to live. People who lived there couldn't get jobs because employers automatically discriminated against them just because of their address. Discrimination sucks. You know that. If you keep fighting fire with fire, we'll have no beautiful trees left. That's my analogy anyway. Make of it what you will...
.
And *dan*, re. the ex-pats in Spain; do you really think the Spanish folk are grateful to them for their living in separate communities? - having their own mini-state within a State? - at the end of the day, Madrid will have to provide for these people in emergencies etc... - the principle is exactly the same as those immigrants coming to the UK; whether you're part of the natives or not, you will be using up resources.
.
And you talk about the women of certain communities; if you really think the majority believe you actually care for their well-being, it's time for you find some other lemmings to swallow your lies.
.
Those who go on about 'empowering' (ethnic minority) women, are only doing so, so they can just take another swipe at the males of a certain section of the community.
.
Spare us the BS about 'human rights' for females; it doesn't wash with the rest of us.
.
Funnily enough, the same nonsense was said in regards to Afghanistan (and look what's happened since); more women have been raped and sexually assaulted ever since the invasion over a decade ago.
.
How's that for spreading 'peace and democracy'?
mrs walker
says...
9:57pm Mon 4 Jul 11
dannbradfc wrote:Spare me the excuses. Motives and money are nothing to do with it. British ex-pats are resented in Spain because many won't learn the language and don't fit in with the wider community. They just buy up swathes of Spanish land, forcing up property prices and diverting water supplies to irrigate golflinks which creates problems for the farmers. If you look online you can read expat discussion forums about how unpopular we are.
JP Morgan and Chase wrote:those ex-pats probably have the money and means to look after themselves and are not ECONOMIC migrants. Should they then need or want to learn Spanish they would then simply learn the language.
freespeech wrote:Try telling that to the British ex-pats who live in Spain.
Language has nothing to do with being racist, its a cop out by the ignorant to further support those that refused to speak the national tongue of this great nation. We are in England, where out language is English, it is not too much to expect others to speak English in England is it? Especially on the grounds that we are an integrated society..
.
Who like to have their own communities instead of integrating; who prefer to speak their own language as opposed to the (language) of the country they're living in.
.
Pretty ironic and hypocritical, don't you think? - since it's these kind of people that'll be the first to bleat on about why immigrants don't assimilate etc..
What we have here is entirely different. As those not/refusing to speak English mostly don't have the finnancial backing ex-pats do and have different motives for been here. What the article is saying is that Bradford's migrants will find it difficult to proper outside of their own community and are hindering their own progress by not been able to speak or pass exams etc etc.
Ex-pats sat in the sun in paid for homes (out of their own money and not the Spanish government) don't have this problem. Ultimately they have a choice in the matter. Simarlarly so do the 3rd generation communities of Brasdford. However the continued discrimination of women/females in certain communties ensure that they do not already speak English, even taken out of school early so that they are then totally reliant on the males. They can also only then only communicate in their 'native' tongue. Its a feudal patriarchal system and language is a powerful means in this process.
.
And you obviously haven't read Spark 9990's comment which I reposted for the benefit of people, like you, who are too quick to asssume that the problem lies with the Asian community.
.
richmondbull
says...
10:32pm Mon 4 Jul 11
mrs walker wrote:Mrs Walker why dont you just go somehwere and take a dump!
dannbradfc wrote:Spare me the excuses. Motives and money are nothing to do with it. British ex-pats are resented in Spain because many won't learn the language and don't fit in with the wider community. They just buy up swathes of Spanish land, forcing up property prices and diverting water supplies to irrigate golflinks which creates problems for the farmers. If you look online you can read expat discussion forums about how unpopular we are. . And you obviously haven't read Spark 9990's comment which I reposted for the benefit of people, like you, who are too quick to asssume that the problem lies with the Asian community. .JP Morgan and Chase wrote:those ex-pats probably have the money and means to look after themselves and are not ECONOMIC migrants. Should they then need or want to learn Spanish they would then simply learn the language. What we have here is entirely different. As those not/refusing to speak English mostly don't have the finnancial backing ex-pats do and have different motives for been here. What the article is saying is that Bradford's migrants will find it difficult to proper outside of their own community and are hindering their own progress by not been able to speak or pass exams etc etc. Ex-pats sat in the sun in paid for homes (out of their own money and not the Spanish government) don't have this problem. Ultimately they have a choice in the matter. Simarlarly so do the 3rd generation communities of Brasdford. However the continued discrimination of women/females in certain communties ensure that they do not already speak English, even taken out of school early so that they are then totally reliant on the males. They can also only then only communicate in their 'native' tongue. Its a feudal patriarchal system and language is a powerful means in this process.freespeech wrote: Language has nothing to do with being racist, its a cop out by the ignorant to further support those that refused to speak the national tongue of this great nation. We are in England, where out language is English, it is not too much to expect others to speak English in England is it? Especially on the grounds that we are an integrated society..Try telling that to the British ex-pats who live in Spain. . Who like to have their own communities instead of integrating; who prefer to speak their own language as opposed to the (language) of the country they're living in. . Pretty ironic and hypocritical, don't you think? - since it's these kind of people that'll be the first to bleat on about why immigrants don't assimilate etc..
It would be to everyones benefit.
mrs walker
says...
11:17pm Mon 4 Jul 11
richmondbull wrote:Because I'm too polite to do it your doorstep.
mrs walker wrote:Mrs Walker why dont you just go somehwere and take a dump!
dannbradfc wrote:Spare me the excuses. Motives and money are nothing to do with it. British ex-pats are resented in Spain because many won't learn the language and don't fit in with the wider community. They just buy up swathes of Spanish land, forcing up property prices and diverting water supplies to irrigate golflinks which creates problems for the farmers. If you look online you can read expat discussion forums about how unpopular we are. . And you obviously haven't read Spark 9990's comment which I reposted for the benefit of people, like you, who are too quick to asssume that the problem lies with the Asian community. .JP Morgan and Chase wrote:those ex-pats probably have the money and means to look after themselves and are not ECONOMIC migrants. Should they then need or want to learn Spanish they would then simply learn the language. What we have here is entirely different. As those not/refusing to speak English mostly don't have the finnancial backing ex-pats do and have different motives for been here. What the article is saying is that Bradford's migrants will find it difficult to proper outside of their own community and are hindering their own progress by not been able to speak or pass exams etc etc. Ex-pats sat in the sun in paid for homes (out of their own money and not the Spanish government) don't have this problem. Ultimately they have a choice in the matter. Simarlarly so do the 3rd generation communities of Brasdford. However the continued discrimination of women/females in certain communties ensure that they do not already speak English, even taken out of school early so that they are then totally reliant on the males. They can also only then only communicate in their 'native' tongue. Its a feudal patriarchal system and language is a powerful means in this process.freespeech wrote: Language has nothing to do with being racist, its a cop out by the ignorant to further support those that refused to speak the national tongue of this great nation. We are in England, where out language is English, it is not too much to expect others to speak English in England is it? Especially on the grounds that we are an integrated society..Try telling that to the British ex-pats who live in Spain. . Who like to have their own communities instead of integrating; who prefer to speak their own language as opposed to the (language) of the country they're living in. . Pretty ironic and hypocritical, don't you think? - since it's these kind of people that'll be the first to bleat on about why immigrants don't assimilate etc..
It would be to everyones benefit.
mrs walker
says...
11:18pm Mon 4 Jul 11
*on* :-)
Fireman Fred
says...
12:57am Tue 5 Jul 11
Surely the answer to the problem is quite simple. If a child goes to a school and needs an interpreter then it's up to the parents to supply that interpreter, no matter what race, creed or other nationality. Perhaps if there is a few kids of the same strain, the parents can join together in supplying, or paying for someone who speaks the Queens English as well as their own language. Problem solved.
Hitting Back!
says...
9:11am Tue 5 Jul 11
Albion. wrote:I make a valid point with regards the bateman issue, and you know it. Your just crying cos I upset your BF.
Hitting Back! wrote:If you read the opening paragraphs of the report Ian Murch does say that the main areas are those of high immigrant influx. "But bateman wished to pick out the lady's comments as if to say that the problem only lies with migrant communities." There might be a number of children whose parentage isn't recent immigrant (well one of them at least) but I doubt that their numbers are particularly great or that they require an interpreter (extra coaching maybe and the parents have no excuse for that other than lazyness). Areas where there are few or no immigrants such as many of the outer regions and towns and villages don't require this service. All of which leads me to believe that you are trying to make more of this than he probably meant you to, or at least that is how it appears to me. With reference to one of your other posts, I have the right to comment on anyone's religion and make my views known (we don't yet lynch people for criticising someone who has been dead for one and a half thousand years or two thousand come to that). Back on topic, My own view is that if a child needs an interpreter the parents should have to pay for it (whoever they are).Thee Voice of Reason wrote: There are areas of Bradford where the English spoken by English people leaves alot to desired, you won't hear me argue against that. . The story in question is about the fact school budgets are spent on translators. Money is tight in schools without spending more on translators to cater for those who's parents who really should be giving them the best start in life by teaching them English at home.The story is indeed about translators. But bateman wished to pick out the lady's comments as if to say that the problem only lies with migrant communities. However if he had actually read the qoute in detail he would have realised exactly what she was talking about, i.e. the "level" of spoken english, but it appears he was just keen to express his usual views. I merely wish to highlight the incorrect assumption bateman reached in his haste to post the usual stuff he does...
I agree freedom of speech is a great thing about this country but it should not be abused and frankly your comments are both abusive and disrespectful.
Without knowing a jot about my religion please do not make such comments.
Hitting Back!
says...
9:15am Tue 5 Jul 11
bradford rose wrote:Yes, I have been around holmewood and would say that was the first and most certainly last time i'll visit.
Hitting Back! wrote:Have you been going around Holmewood observing and listening to how English is spoken there? Just what is it with you people and your fixation with Holmewood? Quite obviously this issue is about the children from immigrant communities where English isn't the mother tongue. It's not about children who speak the local dialect as opposed to the Queen's English, which incidentally there is nothing wrong with. Whenever the slightest criticism is levelled at your community why do you people always have to revert to mudslinging at those who you quite mistakenly think are inferior to you?Patrick Bateman wrote: "Adeeba Malik, deputy chief executive of Bradford-based development agency QED, said: . . 'more could be done at home to promote good English-speaking so that children had better prospects'. . Hear, hear. . . ' I think there’s generally a problem about the level of spoken English everywhere across the district'. . . Where does she get that from? In some areas without doubt; but all? There's no point in being disingenuous about it, the article already makes it clear where you're likely to find the problem areas (i.e. areas of a high migrant concentration). That clearly doesn't translate to 'everywhere across the district' does it?She talks about the "level" of spoken english. In areas like holmewood this is definitely a problem wouldn't you agree? And there isn't a high level of migrants in these areas! But let's not dwell on that because all the world's problems are down to one community...
Have you been around the areas you continously put down? I bet the level of english spoken within these communities, in general, is just as good as estates like holmewood, etc.
Mudslinging? Where is your sense of outrage when the slinging of mud is aimed at non-white communities???
Hitting Back!
says...
9:18am Tue 5 Jul 11
Colin Allcars wrote:Allcars, i have repeatedly said that the issue does not lie with the Pakistani community alone, and language skills have improved significantly over teh last few years.
JP Morgan and Chase wrote:Do you mean the ex-pats who pay their own way in Spain and bring money into the country not send benefit money out via 'moneyshops' as in Bradford. Perhaps you mean the ones who haven't gone out there to retire (and be self-sufficient and not claim hand-outs after contributing nothing)? Those that work there and take their young families see it as a great advantage to learn Spanish. You will hear Pakistanis speaking English better on news items on the BBC than you do in Bradford. But then that is the point of not learning English, it helps maintain the urdu interpretor industry that is so vital to Bradford. Who knows in a 100 years we might not need it anymore...or then again!freespeech wrote: Language has nothing to do with being racist, its a cop out by the ignorant to further support those that refused to speak the national tongue of this great nation. We are in England, where out language is English, it is not too much to expect others to speak English in England is it? Especially on the grounds that we are an integrated society..Try telling that to the British ex-pats who live in Spain. . Who like to have their own communities instead of integrating; who prefer to speak their own language as opposed to the (language) of the country they're living in. . Pretty ironic and hypocritical, don't you think? - since it's these kind of people that'll be the first to bleat on about why immigrants don't assimilate etc..
Why are you so ignorant of this???
Why will you not accept the truth???
What is your problem???
Hitting Back!
says...
9:21am Tue 5 Jul 11
richmondbull wrote:tut tut richmond...
mrs walker wrote:Mrs Walker why dont you just go somehwere and take a dump! It would be to everyones benefit.dannbradfc wrote:Spare me the excuses. Motives and money are nothing to do with it. British ex-pats are resented in Spain because many won't learn the language and don't fit in with the wider community. They just buy up swathes of Spanish land, forcing up property prices and diverting water supplies to irrigate golflinks which creates problems for the farmers. If you look online you can read expat discussion forums about how unpopular we are. . And you obviously haven't read Spark 9990's comment which I reposted for the benefit of people, like you, who are too quick to asssume that the problem lies with the Asian community. .JP Morgan and Chase wrote:those ex-pats probably have the money and means to look after themselves and are not ECONOMIC migrants. Should they then need or want to learn Spanish they would then simply learn the language. What we have here is entirely different. As those not/refusing to speak English mostly don't have the finnancial backing ex-pats do and have different motives for been here. What the article is saying is that Bradford's migrants will find it difficult to proper outside of their own community and are hindering their own progress by not been able to speak or pass exams etc etc. Ex-pats sat in the sun in paid for homes (out of their own money and not the Spanish government) don't have this problem. Ultimately they have a choice in the matter. Simarlarly so do the 3rd generation communities of Brasdford. However the continued discrimination of women/females in certain communties ensure that they do not already speak English, even taken out of school early so that they are then totally reliant on the males. They can also only then only communicate in their 'native' tongue. Its a feudal patriarchal system and language is a powerful means in this process.freespeech wrote: Language has nothing to do with being racist, its a cop out by the ignorant to further support those that refused to speak the national tongue of this great nation. We are in England, where out language is English, it is not too much to expect others to speak English in England is it? Especially on the grounds that we are an integrated society..Try telling that to the British ex-pats who live in Spain. . Who like to have their own communities instead of integrating; who prefer to speak their own language as opposed to the (language) of the country they're living in. . Pretty ironic and hypocritical, don't you think? - since it's these kind of people that'll be the first to bleat on about why immigrants don't assimilate etc..
Thee Voice of Reason
says...
9:43am Tue 5 Jul 11
What ex-pats do abroad has nothing to do with this. It doesn't matter to this topic. What you may think what they do abroad is wrong and it might well be but thats is not our problem.
.
Our problem is that in Primary schools, 43% of children in Bradford don't speak English as their first language and therefore translators are required stretching school funding even tighter.
.
Our problem is that in Primary schools, 43% of children in Bradford don't speak English as their first language and therefore translators are required stretching school funding even tighter.
Albion.
says...
11:22am Tue 5 Jul 11
Hitting Back! wrote:Don't presume to tell me what I can and can't post! I care not what your opinion is of my comments and I won't be altering them to suit you.
Albion. wrote:I make a valid point with regards the bateman issue, and you know it. Your just crying cos I upset your BF.
Hitting Back! wrote:If you read the opening paragraphs of the report Ian Murch does say that the main areas are those of high immigrant influx. "But bateman wished to pick out the lady's comments as if to say that the problem only lies with migrant communities." There might be a number of children whose parentage isn't recent immigrant (well one of them at least) but I doubt that their numbers are particularly great or that they require an interpreter (extra coaching maybe and the parents have no excuse for that other than lazyness). Areas where there are few or no immigrants such as many of the outer regions and towns and villages don't require this service. All of which leads me to believe that you are trying to make more of this than he probably meant you to, or at least that is how it appears to me. With reference to one of your other posts, I have the right to comment on anyone's religion and make my views known (we don't yet lynch people for criticising someone who has been dead for one and a half thousand years or two thousand come to that). Back on topic, My own view is that if a child needs an interpreter the parents should have to pay for it (whoever they are).Thee Voice of Reason wrote: There are areas of Bradford where the English spoken by English people leaves alot to desired, you won't hear me argue against that. . The story in question is about the fact school budgets are spent on translators. Money is tight in schools without spending more on translators to cater for those who's parents who really should be giving them the best start in life by teaching them English at home.The story is indeed about translators. But bateman wished to pick out the lady's comments as if to say that the problem only lies with migrant communities. However if he had actually read the qoute in detail he would have realised exactly what she was talking about, i.e. the "level" of spoken english, but it appears he was just keen to express his usual views. I merely wish to highlight the incorrect assumption bateman reached in his haste to post the usual stuff he does...
I agree freedom of speech is a great thing about this country but it should not be abused and frankly your comments are both abusive and disrespectful.
Without knowing a jot about my religion please do not make such comments.
Prisoner Cell Block A
says...
12:25pm Tue 5 Jul 11
Instead of wasting money on multiple interpretors why not have a single school or resource which deals with the problem of non-English. No actual lessons apart from English and this could cover multiple age groups for each section of the community. So five classrooms could be teaching 5 non-indigenous groups at the same time. Not struggling to get through a Geography lesson in pigeon-English and no-one managing to learn anything.
Whilst we are on the subject of ex-pats, anywhere in the world, would we be afforded the same luxury? The Spanish set up an English/Urdu/Polish/
German type learning situation? No,thought not.
The Saudis setting one up similar? Australia? It won't happen, only here in 'racist' Britain, which begs the question, are we actually racist or just soft touches and have been for too long?
And no-one seems to be responding when they keep throwing 'council-estate' comments about when I inform you that a large percentage of these 'council-estate' types are now of SE Asian, another large percentage is East European with the rest being long term family types who are probably stuck there for many reason, some being as you mentioned, they are low-life ne'er do wells and will always be but there are other unfortunates who have tried and failed to improve their situations. And where you live does not make the person you are.
This aimed mainly at the resident BIGOT JP, or whatever his pseudonym may be today. Do you change your name because you lose arguments and can't face being wrong so many times or because you are vile and get banned? Genuine question, either could be true.
Whilst we are on the subject of ex-pats, anywhere in the world, would we be afforded the same luxury? The Spanish set up an English/Urdu/Polish/
German type learning situation? No,thought not.
The Saudis setting one up similar? Australia? It won't happen, only here in 'racist' Britain, which begs the question, are we actually racist or just soft touches and have been for too long?
And no-one seems to be responding when they keep throwing 'council-estate' comments about when I inform you that a large percentage of these 'council-estate' types are now of SE Asian, another large percentage is East European with the rest being long term family types who are probably stuck there for many reason, some being as you mentioned, they are low-life ne'er do wells and will always be but there are other unfortunates who have tried and failed to improve their situations. And where you live does not make the person you are.
This aimed mainly at the resident BIGOT JP, or whatever his pseudonym may be today. Do you change your name because you lose arguments and can't face being wrong so many times or because you are vile and get banned? Genuine question, either could be true.
bradford rose
says...
12:32pm Tue 5 Jul 11
Hitting Back! wrote:No, I haven't been around any areas that I continuously put down as I'm not aware that I have ever "put down" any particular area, not even once, let alone "continuously"!
bradford rose wrote:Yes, I have been around holmewood and would say that was the first and most certainly last time i'll visit. Have you been around the areas you continously put down? I bet the level of english spoken within these communities, in general, is just as good as estates like holmewood, etc. Mudslinging? Where is your sense of outrage when the slinging of mud is aimed at non-white communities???Hitting Back! wrote:Have you been going around Holmewood observing and listening to how English is spoken there? Just what is it with you people and your fixation with Holmewood? Quite obviously this issue is about the children from immigrant communities where English isn't the mother tongue. It's not about children who speak the local dialect as opposed to the Queen's English, which incidentally there is nothing wrong with. Whenever the slightest criticism is levelled at your community why do you people always have to revert to mudslinging at those who you quite mistakenly think are inferior to you?Patrick Bateman wrote: "Adeeba Malik, deputy chief executive of Bradford-based development agency QED, said: . . 'more could be done at home to promote good English-speaking so that children had better prospects'. . Hear, hear. . . ' I think there’s generally a problem about the level of spoken English everywhere across the district'. . . Where does she get that from? In some areas without doubt; but all? There's no point in being disingenuous about it, the article already makes it clear where you're likely to find the problem areas (i.e. areas of a high migrant concentration). That clearly doesn't translate to 'everywhere across the district' does it?She talks about the "level" of spoken english. In areas like holmewood this is definitely a problem wouldn't you agree? And there isn't a high level of migrants in these areas! But let's not dwell on that because all the world's problems are down to one community...
Would you care to point out any posts of mine where you think I have done that?
On the contrary when people were ascribing the rat problem in BD3 to the Asian populace I defended your community, saying that it was because of it being a densely populated area not because of the ethnicity of the area.
So, as you don't seem to know what I have or haven't posted I should keep your accusations to yourself, Gobby!
Hitting Back!
says...
1:37pm Tue 5 Jul 11
Albion. wrote:I cannot tell you what to post, that much is true... but if your opinion offends me then I too have a right to express my views.
Hitting Back! wrote:Don't presume to tell me what I can and can't post! I care not what your opinion is of my comments and I won't be altering them to suit you.Albion. wrote:I make a valid point with regards the bateman issue, and you know it. Your just crying cos I upset your BF. I agree freedom of speech is a great thing about this country but it should not be abused and frankly your comments are both abusive and disrespectful. Without knowing a jot about my religion please do not make such comments.Hitting Back! wrote:If you read the opening paragraphs of the report Ian Murch does say that the main areas are those of high immigrant influx. "But bateman wished to pick out the lady's comments as if to say that the problem only lies with migrant communities." There might be a number of children whose parentage isn't recent immigrant (well one of them at least) but I doubt that their numbers are particularly great or that they require an interpreter (extra coaching maybe and the parents have no excuse for that other than lazyness). Areas where there are few or no immigrants such as many of the outer regions and towns and villages don't require this service. All of which leads me to believe that you are trying to make more of this than he probably meant you to, or at least that is how it appears to me. With reference to one of your other posts, I have the right to comment on anyone's religion and make my views known (we don't yet lynch people for criticising someone who has been dead for one and a half thousand years or two thousand come to that). Back on topic, My own view is that if a child needs an interpreter the parents should have to pay for it (whoever they are).Thee Voice of Reason wrote: There are areas of Bradford where the English spoken by English people leaves alot to desired, you won't hear me argue against that. . The story in question is about the fact school budgets are spent on translators. Money is tight in schools without spending more on translators to cater for those who's parents who really should be giving them the best start in life by teaching them English at home.The story is indeed about translators. But bateman wished to pick out the lady's comments as if to say that the problem only lies with migrant communities. However if he had actually read the qoute in detail he would have realised exactly what she was talking about, i.e. the "level" of spoken english, but it appears he was just keen to express his usual views. I merely wish to highlight the incorrect assumption bateman reached in his haste to post the usual stuff he does...
You know nothing at all about my religion other than the complete misconception bandied about by the media as a consequence of the actions of a few idiots who do not have any idea on the true principles of Islam.
But you care not!
Hitting Back!
says...
1:48pm Tue 5 Jul 11
bradford rose wrote:OK, fair comment i shouldn't have aimed the criticism directly at you.
Hitting Back! wrote:No, I haven't been around any areas that I continuously put down as I'm not aware that I have ever "put down" any particular area, not even once, let alone "continuously"! Would you care to point out any posts of mine where you think I have done that? On the contrary when people were ascribing the rat problem in BD3 to the Asian populace I defended your community, saying that it was because of it being a densely populated area not because of the ethnicity of the area. So, as you don't seem to know what I have or haven't posted I should keep your accusations to yourself, Gobby!bradford rose wrote:Yes, I have been around holmewood and would say that was the first and most certainly last time i'll visit. Have you been around the areas you continously put down? I bet the level of english spoken within these communities, in general, is just as good as estates like holmewood, etc. Mudslinging? Where is your sense of outrage when the slinging of mud is aimed at non-white communities???Hitting Back! wrote:Have you been going around Holmewood observing and listening to how English is spoken there? Just what is it with you people and your fixation with Holmewood? Quite obviously this issue is about the children from immigrant communities where English isn't the mother tongue. It's not about children who speak the local dialect as opposed to the Queen's English, which incidentally there is nothing wrong with. Whenever the slightest criticism is levelled at your community why do you people always have to revert to mudslinging at those who you quite mistakenly think are inferior to you?Patrick Bateman wrote: "Adeeba Malik, deputy chief executive of Bradford-based development agency QED, said: . . 'more could be done at home to promote good English-speaking so that children had better prospects'. . Hear, hear. . . ' I think there’s generally a problem about the level of spoken English everywhere across the district'. . . Where does she get that from? In some areas without doubt; but all? There's no point in being disingenuous about it, the article already makes it clear where you're likely to find the problem areas (i.e. areas of a high migrant concentration). That clearly doesn't translate to 'everywhere across the district' does it?She talks about the "level" of spoken english. In areas like holmewood this is definitely a problem wouldn't you agree? And there isn't a high level of migrants in these areas! But let's not dwell on that because all the world's problems are down to one community...
But there are many others on here that are jumping at every opportunity to have a go at my community... they know who they are.
I was spurred to start posting on here through sheer anger towards the continous abuse these people express and seem to get away with.
For example, the article is about schools and translators but somehow Albion manages to slip in an offending comment about my religion!
Every section of the community has problems and bad elements.. but whenever there is a story that may have some element of fault/blame attached to Muslims then the (discreetly) hate-filled posts come flooding in.
Albion.
says...
1:49pm Tue 5 Jul 11
Hitting Back! wrote:Assumptions.
Albion. wrote:I cannot tell you what to post, that much is true... but if your opinion offends me then I too have a right to express my views.
Hitting Back! wrote:Don't presume to tell me what I can and can't post! I care not what your opinion is of my comments and I won't be altering them to suit you.Albion. wrote:I make a valid point with regards the bateman issue, and you know it. Your just crying cos I upset your BF. I agree freedom of speech is a great thing about this country but it should not be abused and frankly your comments are both abusive and disrespectful. Without knowing a jot about my religion please do not make such comments.Hitting Back! wrote:If you read the opening paragraphs of the report Ian Murch does say that the main areas are those of high immigrant influx. "But bateman wished to pick out the lady's comments as if to say that the problem only lies with migrant communities." There might be a number of children whose parentage isn't recent immigrant (well one of them at least) but I doubt that their numbers are particularly great or that they require an interpreter (extra coaching maybe and the parents have no excuse for that other than lazyness). Areas where there are few or no immigrants such as many of the outer regions and towns and villages don't require this service. All of which leads me to believe that you are trying to make more of this than he probably meant you to, or at least that is how it appears to me. With reference to one of your other posts, I have the right to comment on anyone's religion and make my views known (we don't yet lynch people for criticising someone who has been dead for one and a half thousand years or two thousand come to that). Back on topic, My own view is that if a child needs an interpreter the parents should have to pay for it (whoever they are).Thee Voice of Reason wrote: There are areas of Bradford where the English spoken by English people leaves alot to desired, you won't hear me argue against that. . The story in question is about the fact school budgets are spent on translators. Money is tight in schools without spending more on translators to cater for those who's parents who really should be giving them the best start in life by teaching them English at home.The story is indeed about translators. But bateman wished to pick out the lady's comments as if to say that the problem only lies with migrant communities. However if he had actually read the qoute in detail he would have realised exactly what she was talking about, i.e. the "level" of spoken english, but it appears he was just keen to express his usual views. I merely wish to highlight the incorrect assumption bateman reached in his haste to post the usual stuff he does...
You know nothing at all about my religion other than the complete misconception bandied about by the media as a consequence of the actions of a few idiots who do not have any idea on the true principles of Islam.
But you care not!
Hitting Back!
says...
1:53pm Tue 5 Jul 11
Hitting Back! wrote:Talking of issues that are brushed under the carpet, have you read the article today about the paedophile abusing an innocent young boy?
bradford rose wrote:OK, fair comment i shouldn't have aimed the criticism directly at you. But there are many others on here that are jumping at every opportunity to have a go at my community... they know who they are. I was spurred to start posting on here through sheer anger towards the continous abuse these people express and seem to get away with. For example, the article is about schools and translators but somehow Albion manages to slip in an offending comment about my religion! Every section of the community has problems and bad elements.. but whenever there is a story that may have some element of fault/blame attached to Muslims then the (discreetly) hate-filled posts come flooding in.Hitting Back! wrote:No, I haven't been around any areas that I continuously put down as I'm not aware that I have ever "put down" any particular area, not even once, let alone "continuously"! Would you care to point out any posts of mine where you think I have done that? On the contrary when people were ascribing the rat problem in BD3 to the Asian populace I defended your community, saying that it was because of it being a densely populated area not because of the ethnicity of the area. So, as you don't seem to know what I have or haven't posted I should keep your accusations to yourself, Gobby!bradford rose wrote:Yes, I have been around holmewood and would say that was the first and most certainly last time i'll visit. Have you been around the areas you continously put down? I bet the level of english spoken within these communities, in general, is just as good as estates like holmewood, etc. Mudslinging? Where is your sense of outrage when the slinging of mud is aimed at non-white communities???Hitting Back! wrote:Have you been going around Holmewood observing and listening to how English is spoken there? Just what is it with you people and your fixation with Holmewood? Quite obviously this issue is about the children from immigrant communities where English isn't the mother tongue. It's not about children who speak the local dialect as opposed to the Queen's English, which incidentally there is nothing wrong with. Whenever the slightest criticism is levelled at your community why do you people always have to revert to mudslinging at those who you quite mistakenly think are inferior to you?Patrick Bateman wrote: "Adeeba Malik, deputy chief executive of Bradford-based development agency QED, said: . . 'more could be done at home to promote good English-speaking so that children had better prospects'. . Hear, hear. . . ' I think there’s generally a problem about the level of spoken English everywhere across the district'. . . Where does she get that from? In some areas without doubt; but all? There's no point in being disingenuous about it, the article already makes it clear where you're likely to find the problem areas (i.e. areas of a high migrant concentration). That clearly doesn't translate to 'everywhere across the district' does it?She talks about the "level" of spoken english. In areas like holmewood this is definitely a problem wouldn't you agree? And there isn't a high level of migrants in these areas! But let's not dwell on that because all the world's problems are down to one community...
I have often read on here posters venting their anger on asian men targeting young white girls, which is completely unacceptable and wrong, but today's story shows it isn't just a problem concerning asian men.
I'm sorry to have to use this as an example to illustrate my point...
Patrick Bateman
says...
1:58pm Tue 5 Jul 11
Hitting Back: you are rapidly turning into the resident clown of the site. Look back over your posts; you come across like some petulant schoolboy ('upset your BF' ?? Pathetic). If you sincerely want to dispel the misconceptions of your religion (as you claim above) I'm not sure you are going the right way about it: you seem aggressively opinionated and intolerant of other's points of view.
Albion.
says...
2:11pm Tue 5 Jul 11
Hitting Back! wrote:Don't be sorry! Although I'm not quite sure what the point is that you are trying to illustrate.
Hitting Back! wrote:Talking of issues that are brushed under the carpet, have you read the article today about the paedophile abusing an innocent young boy?
bradford rose wrote:OK, fair comment i shouldn't have aimed the criticism directly at you. But there are many others on here that are jumping at every opportunity to have a go at my community... they know who they are. I was spurred to start posting on here through sheer anger towards the continous abuse these people express and seem to get away with. For example, the article is about schools and translators but somehow Albion manages to slip in an offending comment about my religion! Every section of the community has problems and bad elements.. but whenever there is a story that may have some element of fault/blame attached to Muslims then the (discreetly) hate-filled posts come flooding in.Hitting Back! wrote:No, I haven't been around any areas that I continuously put down as I'm not aware that I have ever "put down" any particular area, not even once, let alone "continuously"! Would you care to point out any posts of mine where you think I have done that? On the contrary when people were ascribing the rat problem in BD3 to the Asian populace I defended your community, saying that it was because of it being a densely populated area not because of the ethnicity of the area. So, as you don't seem to know what I have or haven't posted I should keep your accusations to yourself, Gobby!bradford rose wrote:Yes, I have been around holmewood and would say that was the first and most certainly last time i'll visit. Have you been around the areas you continously put down? I bet the level of english spoken within these communities, in general, is just as good as estates like holmewood, etc. Mudslinging? Where is your sense of outrage when the slinging of mud is aimed at non-white communities???Hitting Back! wrote:Have you been going around Holmewood observing and listening to how English is spoken there? Just what is it with you people and your fixation with Holmewood? Quite obviously this issue is about the children from immigrant communities where English isn't the mother tongue. It's not about children who speak the local dialect as opposed to the Queen's English, which incidentally there is nothing wrong with. Whenever the slightest criticism is levelled at your community why do you people always have to revert to mudslinging at those who you quite mistakenly think are inferior to you?Patrick Bateman wrote: "Adeeba Malik, deputy chief executive of Bradford-based development agency QED, said: . . 'more could be done at home to promote good English-speaking so that children had better prospects'. . Hear, hear. . . ' I think there’s generally a problem about the level of spoken English everywhere across the district'. . . Where does she get that from? In some areas without doubt; but all? There's no point in being disingenuous about it, the article already makes it clear where you're likely to find the problem areas (i.e. areas of a high migrant concentration). That clearly doesn't translate to 'everywhere across the district' does it?She talks about the "level" of spoken english. In areas like holmewood this is definitely a problem wouldn't you agree? And there isn't a high level of migrants in these areas! But let's not dwell on that because all the world's problems are down to one community...
I have often read on here posters venting their anger on asian men targeting young white girls, which is completely unacceptable and wrong, but today's story shows it isn't just a problem concerning asian men.
I'm sorry to have to use this as an example to illustrate my point...
You can rest assured that if I was allowed to comment on that particular thread I would indeed have done so with some vigour.
I criticise all the major religious structures not just yours, however this thread isn't about that.
The "posters venting their anger" are quite right to do so (wrongdoing is wrongdoing), incidentally there was a debate here recently where reports were produced which claimed that child abuse by people of Asian origin was more wide spread than is generally known but the tendency is more towards concealing it than in some other cultures, But yet again that is for the appropriate thread as we are getting far too far off topic here which neither I or the censors particularly like.
Albion.
says...
2:17pm Tue 5 Jul 11
Patrick Bateman wrote:I will make no comment here about the content or style of HBs posts but I have to say that PB and I have never met, don't know each other and have certainly had disagreements and differing views on here from time to time.
Hitting Back: you are rapidly turning into the resident clown of the site. Look back over your posts; you come across like some petulant schoolboy ('upset your BF' ?? Pathetic). If you sincerely want to dispel the misconceptions of your religion (as you claim above) I'm not sure you are going the right way about it: you seem aggressively opinionated and intolerant of other's points of view.
Hitting Back!
says...
5:49pm Tue 5 Jul 11
Patrick Bateman wrote:I beg to differ...
Hitting Back: you are rapidly turning into the resident clown of the site. Look back over your posts; you come across like some petulant schoolboy ('upset your BF' ?? Pathetic). If you sincerely want to dispel the misconceptions of your religion (as you claim above) I'm not sure you are going the right way about it: you seem aggressively opinionated and intolerant of other's points of view.
Colin Allcars
says...
7:37pm Tue 5 Jul 11
Hitting Back! wrote:It's Mr Allcars to you!
Colin Allcars wrote:Allcars, i have repeatedly said that the issue does not lie with the Pakistani community alone, and language skills have improved significantly over teh last few years. Why are you so ignorant of this??? Why will you not accept the truth??? What is your problem???JP Morgan and Chase wrote:Do you mean the ex-pats who pay their own way in Spain and bring money into the country not send benefit money out via 'moneyshops' as in Bradford. Perhaps you mean the ones who haven't gone out there to retire (and be self-sufficient and not claim hand-outs after contributing nothing)? Those that work there and take their young families see it as a great advantage to learn Spanish. You will hear Pakistanis speaking English better on news items on the BBC than you do in Bradford. But then that is the point of not learning English, it helps maintain the urdu interpretor industry that is so vital to Bradford. Who knows in a 100 years we might not need it anymore...or then again!freespeech wrote: Language has nothing to do with being racist, its a cop out by the ignorant to further support those that refused to speak the national tongue of this great nation. We are in England, where out language is English, it is not too much to expect others to speak English in England is it? Especially on the grounds that we are an integrated society..Try telling that to the British ex-pats who live in Spain. . Who like to have their own communities instead of integrating; who prefer to speak their own language as opposed to the (language) of the country they're living in. . Pretty ironic and hypocritical, don't you think? - since it's these kind of people that'll be the first to bleat on about why immigrants don't assimilate etc..
Are you denying that despite Pakistanis being in Bradford for over 50 years now, there are more Urdu interpreters than ever before. How can this be if their 'language skills have improved significantly'?
as i said, listened to Pakistanis on the world news and they speak better English than those in Bradford.
The interpreter industry in Bradford is just jobs for the boys (but in this case mainly girls as it seems to mainly be a female thing)!
mrs walker
says...
10:56pm Tue 5 Jul 11
Colin Allcars wrote:Maybe we didn't have any Urdu interpreters 50 years ago. That would certainly mean there were more now. I don't know, because I can't find the figures, so I'm not sure where you got them from to make that assertion, but as for Pakistanis on the world news speaking better English than those in Bradford, that really does depend on who you speak to.
Hitting Back! wrote:It's Mr Allcars to you!
Colin Allcars wrote:Allcars, i have repeatedly said that the issue does not lie with the Pakistani community alone, and language skills have improved significantly over teh last few years. Why are you so ignorant of this??? Why will you not accept the truth??? What is your problem???JP Morgan and Chase wrote:Do you mean the ex-pats who pay their own way in Spain and bring money into the country not send benefit money out via 'moneyshops' as in Bradford. Perhaps you mean the ones who haven't gone out there to retire (and be self-sufficient and not claim hand-outs after contributing nothing)? Those that work there and take their young families see it as a great advantage to learn Spanish. You will hear Pakistanis speaking English better on news items on the BBC than you do in Bradford. But then that is the point of not learning English, it helps maintain the urdu interpretor industry that is so vital to Bradford. Who knows in a 100 years we might not need it anymore...or then again!freespeech wrote: Language has nothing to do with being racist, its a cop out by the ignorant to further support those that refused to speak the national tongue of this great nation. We are in England, where out language is English, it is not too much to expect others to speak English in England is it? Especially on the grounds that we are an integrated society..Try telling that to the British ex-pats who live in Spain. . Who like to have their own communities instead of integrating; who prefer to speak their own language as opposed to the (language) of the country they're living in. . Pretty ironic and hypocritical, don't you think? - since it's these kind of people that'll be the first to bleat on about why immigrants don't assimilate etc..
Are you denying that despite Pakistanis being in Bradford for over 50 years now, there are more Urdu interpreters than ever before. How can this be if their 'language skills have improved significantly'?
as i said, listened to Pakistanis on the world news and they speak better English than those in Bradford.
The interpreter industry in Bradford is just jobs for the boys (but in this case mainly girls as it seems to mainly be a female thing)!
mrs walker
says...
11:00pm Tue 5 Jul 11
Come to think of it, those Pakistanis you mention on the world news probably speak better English than some of our indigenes.
.
But then Nabokov writes better English than I do. *oh the shame!*
.
But then Nabokov writes better English than I do. *oh the shame!*
Colin Allcars
says...
8:51pm Wed 6 Jul 11
Oh look, the liberal bigot that is Mrs Walker attacking non muslims, what a shock!
mrs walker
says...
11:01pm Wed 6 Jul 11
Colin Allcars wrote:Yes, indeed. With a big stick with 'Learn your mother-tongue before you criticise anyone else, dimwit!' written on it.
Oh look, the liberal bigot that is Mrs Walker attacking non muslims, what a shock!
.
The other side says 'Mr Allcars, have the decency to tell us where you get your facts'. I'll be prodding you with it every now and again. It's a bit pointed.
Speed Merchant
says...
3:24pm Thu 7 Jul 11
you sure the stick not a part of your body ;-)
Colin Allcars
says...
5:36pm Thu 7 Jul 11
mrs walker wrote:well if you did go to the country's 71st best university (Bradford), you must be well educated!
Colin Allcars wrote: Oh look, the liberal bigot that is Mrs Walker attacking non muslims, what a shock!Yes, indeed. With a big stick with 'Learn your mother-tongue before you criticise anyone else, dimwit!' written on it. . The other side says 'Mr Allcars, have the decency to tell us where you get your facts'. I'll be prodding you with it every now and again. It's a bit pointed.
Hitting Back!
says...
2:16pm Fri 8 Jul 11
Colin Allcars wrote:What a load of tosh allcars, you truly are an ignorant old chappie!
Hitting Back! wrote:It's Mr Allcars to you! Are you denying that despite Pakistanis being in Bradford for over 50 years now, there are more Urdu interpreters than ever before. How can this be if their 'language skills have improved significantly'? as i said, listened to Pakistanis on the world news and they speak better English than those in Bradford. The interpreter industry in Bradford is just jobs for the boys (but in this case mainly girls as it seems to mainly be a female thing)!Colin Allcars wrote:Allcars, i have repeatedly said that the issue does not lie with the Pakistani community alone, and language skills have improved significantly over teh last few years. Why are you so ignorant of this??? Why will you not accept the truth??? What is your problem???JP Morgan and Chase wrote:Do you mean the ex-pats who pay their own way in Spain and bring money into the country not send benefit money out via 'moneyshops' as in Bradford. Perhaps you mean the ones who haven't gone out there to retire (and be self-sufficient and not claim hand-outs after contributing nothing)? Those that work there and take their young families see it as a great advantage to learn Spanish. You will hear Pakistanis speaking English better on news items on the BBC than you do in Bradford. But then that is the point of not learning English, it helps maintain the urdu interpretor industry that is so vital to Bradford. Who knows in a 100 years we might not need it anymore...or then again!freespeech wrote: Language has nothing to do with being racist, its a cop out by the ignorant to further support those that refused to speak the national tongue of this great nation. We are in England, where out language is English, it is not too much to expect others to speak English in England is it? Especially on the grounds that we are an integrated society..Try telling that to the British ex-pats who live in Spain. . Who like to have their own communities instead of integrating; who prefer to speak their own language as opposed to the (language) of the country they're living in. . Pretty ironic and hypocritical, don't you think? - since it's these kind of people that'll be the first to bleat on about why immigrants don't assimilate etc..
Where are your facts to prove there are more urdu interpreters?
You just sit on your a&"£ and assume these things...
I often go around these communities and hear asian kids speaking just as good english as many english children do.
mogpick4
says...
4:13pm Fri 8 Jul 11
I really don't care what nationality you are, if you already reside in the UK or intend to settle here long term then you and your family should have a duty to learn the language spoken by the majority.
I personally would not emigrate to another country without making some effort to learn the language otherwise how would I expect to gain employment and make a life for myself? But therein lies the problem, it is bad enough that taxpayers have to foot the bill for generations of the idle English without then having to cater for other nationalities that cannot be bothered to learn the English language.
If you intend to stay in this country you should demonstrate that you have the capacity to look after yourself financially and not just expect others to pay for you. If you teach your children English at home then they will find it easier to make friends, settle at school and progress at the same rate as other children without hindering their progress.
If you haven't bothered to learn English but you expect to be able to take advantage of our education and health services then pay for your own interpreter.
I personally would not emigrate to another country without making some effort to learn the language otherwise how would I expect to gain employment and make a life for myself? But therein lies the problem, it is bad enough that taxpayers have to foot the bill for generations of the idle English without then having to cater for other nationalities that cannot be bothered to learn the English language.
If you intend to stay in this country you should demonstrate that you have the capacity to look after yourself financially and not just expect others to pay for you. If you teach your children English at home then they will find it easier to make friends, settle at school and progress at the same rate as other children without hindering their progress.
If you haven't bothered to learn English but you expect to be able to take advantage of our education and health services then pay for your own interpreter.
NCC.1701A
says...
5:14pm Fri 8 Jul 11
If you live in the UK and can't speak, understand or write correctly in the english language, (I'm not even going to mention mathematic's) how the hell are you going to find any kind of employment.
NCC.1701A
says...
5:28pm Fri 8 Jul 11
Hitting Back! wrote:If you often go around these communities, you will have no doubt seen the asian women, who aren't allowed out of their houses without their husbands, aren't allowed to go to work and pay taxes, but always seem to be in the local doctors surgery, using the NHS system.
Colin Allcars wrote:What a load of tosh allcars, you truly are an ignorant old chappie!
Hitting Back! wrote:It's Mr Allcars to you! Are you denying that despite Pakistanis being in Bradford for over 50 years now, there are more Urdu interpreters than ever before. How can this be if their 'language skills have improved significantly'? as i said, listened to Pakistanis on the world news and they speak better English than those in Bradford. The interpreter industry in Bradford is just jobs for the boys (but in this case mainly girls as it seems to mainly be a female thing)!Colin Allcars wrote:Allcars, i have repeatedly said that the issue does not lie with the Pakistani community alone, and language skills have improved significantly over teh last few years. Why are you so ignorant of this??? Why will you not accept the truth??? What is your problem???JP Morgan and Chase wrote:Do you mean the ex-pats who pay their own way in Spain and bring money into the country not send benefit money out via 'moneyshops' as in Bradford. Perhaps you mean the ones who haven't gone out there to retire (and be self-sufficient and not claim hand-outs after contributing nothing)? Those that work there and take their young families see it as a great advantage to learn Spanish. You will hear Pakistanis speaking English better on news items on the BBC than you do in Bradford. But then that is the point of not learning English, it helps maintain the urdu interpretor industry that is so vital to Bradford. Who knows in a 100 years we might not need it anymore...or then again!freespeech wrote: Language has nothing to do with being racist, its a cop out by the ignorant to further support those that refused to speak the national tongue of this great nation. We are in England, where out language is English, it is not too much to expect others to speak English in England is it? Especially on the grounds that we are an integrated society..Try telling that to the British ex-pats who live in Spain. . Who like to have their own communities instead of integrating; who prefer to speak their own language as opposed to the (language) of the country they're living in. . Pretty ironic and hypocritical, don't you think? - since it's these kind of people that'll be the first to bleat on about why immigrants don't assimilate etc..
Where are your facts to prove there are more urdu interpreters?
You just sit on your a&"£ and assume these things...
I often go around these communities and hear asian kids speaking just as good english as many english children do.
.
Why hasn't the government got on to this, they are residents of the UK, why aren't these asian women being put under the spotlight, like the unemployed are ?
Hitting Back!
says...
5:38pm Fri 8 Jul 11
NCC.1701A wrote:I know of many asian women that are working in very respectable jobs.
Hitting Back! wrote:If you often go around these communities, you will have no doubt seen the asian women, who aren't allowed out of their houses without their husbands, aren't allowed to go to work and pay taxes, but always seem to be in the local doctors surgery, using the NHS system. . Why hasn't the government got on to this, they are residents of the UK, why aren't these asian women being put under the spotlight, like the unemployed are ?Colin Allcars wrote:What a load of tosh allcars, you truly are an ignorant old chappie! Where are your facts to prove there are more urdu interpreters? You just sit on your a&"£ and assume these things... I often go around these communities and hear asian kids speaking just as good english as many english children do.Hitting Back! wrote:It's Mr Allcars to you! Are you denying that despite Pakistanis being in Bradford for over 50 years now, there are more Urdu interpreters than ever before. How can this be if their 'language skills have improved significantly'? as i said, listened to Pakistanis on the world news and they speak better English than those in Bradford. The interpreter industry in Bradford is just jobs for the boys (but in this case mainly girls as it seems to mainly be a female thing)!Colin Allcars wrote:Allcars, i have repeatedly said that the issue does not lie with the Pakistani community alone, and language skills have improved significantly over teh last few years. Why are you so ignorant of this??? Why will you not accept the truth??? What is your problem???JP Morgan and Chase wrote:Do you mean the ex-pats who pay their own way in Spain and bring money into the country not send benefit money out via 'moneyshops' as in Bradford. Perhaps you mean the ones who haven't gone out there to retire (and be self-sufficient and not claim hand-outs after contributing nothing)? Those that work there and take their young families see it as a great advantage to learn Spanish. You will hear Pakistanis speaking English better on news items on the BBC than you do in Bradford. But then that is the point of not learning English, it helps maintain the urdu interpretor industry that is so vital to Bradford. Who knows in a 100 years we might not need it anymore...or then again!freespeech wrote: Language has nothing to do with being racist, its a cop out by the ignorant to further support those that refused to speak the national tongue of this great nation. We are in England, where out language is English, it is not too much to expect others to speak English in England is it? Especially on the grounds that we are an integrated society..Try telling that to the British ex-pats who live in Spain. . Who like to have their own communities instead of integrating; who prefer to speak their own language as opposed to the (language) of the country they're living in. . Pretty ironic and hypocritical, don't you think? - since it's these kind of people that'll be the first to bleat on about why immigrants don't assimilate etc..
Yes, there may be a few that do take advantage but are you telling me every single non-asian woman is working??
NCC.1701A
says...
5:49pm Fri 8 Jul 11
No - that's not what I'm saying, but you will find that the asian women your referring to went through the british school system and careers guidance, so they are registered with a national insurance number and subject to getting a job, the asian women I'm talking about are the ones who were not born in this country, can't speak a word of english and probably will never be allowed to work, due to their husbands and family restriction's. However these women are quite capable of working, and the government needs to sort this out . Let's get them into jobs and paying into the system.
Colin Allcars
says...
6:30pm Fri 8 Jul 11
NCC.1701A wrote:My belief that there are more urdu interpreters in Bradford, not only compared with 50 years ago but even 10 years ago could be from reading the jobs pages. for example the council jobs that say you have to be able to speak urdu.
Hitting Back! wrote:If you often go around these communities, you will have no doubt seen the asian women, who aren't allowed out of their houses without their husbands, aren't allowed to go to work and pay taxes, but always seem to be in the local doctors surgery, using the NHS system. . Why hasn't the government got on to this, they are residents of the UK, why aren't these asian women being put under the spotlight, like the unemployed are ?Colin Allcars wrote:What a load of tosh allcars, you truly are an ignorant old chappie! Where are your facts to prove there are more urdu interpreters? You just sit on your a&"£ and assume these things... I often go around these communities and hear asian kids speaking just as good english as many english children do.Hitting Back! wrote:It's Mr Allcars to you! Are you denying that despite Pakistanis being in Bradford for over 50 years now, there are more Urdu interpreters than ever before. How can this be if their 'language skills have improved significantly'? as i said, listened to Pakistanis on the world news and they speak better English than those in Bradford. The interpreter industry in Bradford is just jobs for the boys (but in this case mainly girls as it seems to mainly be a female thing)!Colin Allcars wrote:Allcars, i have repeatedly said that the issue does not lie with the Pakistani community alone, and language skills have improved significantly over teh last few years. Why are you so ignorant of this??? Why will you not accept the truth??? What is your problem???JP Morgan and Chase wrote:Do you mean the ex-pats who pay their own way in Spain and bring money into the country not send benefit money out via 'moneyshops' as in Bradford. Perhaps you mean the ones who haven't gone out there to retire (and be self-sufficient and not claim hand-outs after contributing nothing)? Those that work there and take their young families see it as a great advantage to learn Spanish. You will hear Pakistanis speaking English better on news items on the BBC than you do in Bradford. But then that is the point of not learning English, it helps maintain the urdu interpretor industry that is so vital to Bradford. Who knows in a 100 years we might not need it anymore...or then again!freespeech wrote: Language has nothing to do with being racist, its a cop out by the ignorant to further support those that refused to speak the national tongue of this great nation. We are in England, where out language is English, it is not too much to expect others to speak English in England is it? Especially on the grounds that we are an integrated society..Try telling that to the British ex-pats who live in Spain. . Who like to have their own communities instead of integrating; who prefer to speak their own language as opposed to the (language) of the country they're living in. . Pretty ironic and hypocritical, don't you think? - since it's these kind of people that'll be the first to bleat on about why immigrants don't assimilate etc..
get hold of the phone book for the BRI and St. lukes, there's six of them for maternity alone!
eldraco says...
11:23am Mon 4 Jul 11