"Shame" of funding shake-up which could take millions of pounds from Bradford

Bradford Telegraph and Argus: Gerry Sutcliffe, MP Gerry Sutcliffe, MP

Health chiefs have been urged to reject a shake-up that threatens to swipe millions of pounds from Bradford – and hand it to richer areas in the South.

NHS England will decide today on a new funding formula that would shift NHS resources from deprived areas to those with more pensioners.

The most extreme proposal would snatch £10.4 million a year – or £23-per-head – from Bradford, according to the organisation’s own analysis.

And the losses would be much higher in Calderdale (£25.2m) and North Kirklees (£25.3m), with Airedale, Wharfedale and Craven (£2.3m) also a loser. Across the district, almost £90m would be taken every year from the budgets of the GP-led ‘clinical commissioning groups’ (CCGs), which buy treatments for patients.

But there would be huge funding leaps in David Cameron’s own area of Oxfordshire (£39.5m), and the Tory heartlands of Dorset (£67.8m), West Sussex (£56.1m) and West Kent (£39.8m).

Following a fierce backlash, NHS England suggested it was rethinking the draconian proposal and will continue to protect poorer areas to some degree. However, the Telegraph & Argus understands that only two of the four options to be discussed by its board today will award any funds on grounds of deprivation.

Gerry Sutcliffe, Labour MP for Bradford South, said anyone bringing in such a funding shift should “hang their heads in shame”.

He said: “The unfairness of moving this money takes healthcare back to the bad old days and means that those that can least afford to lose are set to do so.” Health professionals have described the proposed changes as “very worrying” – warning of “significant cuts in services for patients” if it goes ahead.

But Mr Cameron has sidestepped the row, insisting any new formula is the responsibility of NHS England, an independent body.

The “fair shares formula” – first proposed a year ago, but dropped after protests – was forward by the independent Advisory Committee on Resource Allocation’s (ACRA).

It is designed to better reflect the higher costs of caring for an ageing population, say experts, and any changes are likely to be phased over several years. But, embarrassingly for the Prime Minister, only months before the 2010 general election, he promised to introduce a “health premium”, to target spending at poorer areas.

And he said, in 2010: “Health inequalities in 21st century Britain are as wide as they were in Victorian times.”

Comments (35)

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7:51am Tue 17 Dec 13

Thee Voice of Reason says...

Gerry, where is the £200k of council money that went to the Bulls?
Gerry, where is the £200k of council money that went to the Bulls? Thee Voice of Reason

9:16am Tue 17 Dec 13

Bacon Bantam says...

Agreed, notice Sutcliffe is willing to speak about anything at the moment as long as it's not in connection to his time at the Bulls, when this time last year you couldn't keep him out of the paper.

Strange that.
Agreed, notice Sutcliffe is willing to speak about anything at the moment as long as it's not in connection to his time at the Bulls, when this time last year you couldn't keep him out of the paper. Strange that. Bacon Bantam

9:45am Tue 17 Dec 13

MontyLeMar says...

Hmm. People seem more interested in the Bulls than preserving decent healthcare in the district. So be it.
Hmm. People seem more interested in the Bulls than preserving decent healthcare in the district. So be it. MontyLeMar

9:49am Tue 17 Dec 13

collos25 says...

To think people voted for this lump of lard.
To think people voted for this lump of lard. collos25

11:30am Tue 17 Dec 13

Thee Voice of Reason says...

MontyLeMar wrote:
Hmm. People seem more interested in the Bulls than preserving decent healthcare in the district. So be it.
More interested in where £200k of taxpayers money has disappeared via a loan secured from the labour council by a labour MP.
[quote][p][bold]MontyLeMar[/bold] wrote: Hmm. People seem more interested in the Bulls than preserving decent healthcare in the district. So be it.[/p][/quote]More interested in where £200k of taxpayers money has disappeared via a loan secured from the labour council by a labour MP. Thee Voice of Reason

12:21pm Tue 17 Dec 13

TirNaNog says...

As usual, the Usual Suspects can't debate the topic at hand sensibly. Not one comment on the fact that funds will be directed to more affluent areas purely because pensioners retire there. Reading the comments on here I can see why the public are so easy to dupe. If you want to debate the Bulls woes I suggest you contribute your infinite wisdom on the correct thread.
As usual, the Usual Suspects can't debate the topic at hand sensibly. Not one comment on the fact that funds will be directed to more affluent areas purely because pensioners retire there. Reading the comments on here I can see why the public are so easy to dupe. If you want to debate the Bulls woes I suggest you contribute your infinite wisdom on the correct thread. TirNaNog

12:56pm Tue 17 Dec 13

scottie dog says...

There are no votes for the Tories in the north so have to keep their southern seats cosy. No good Cameron saying it is nothing to do with him it is his government which is responsible for the reorganisation of the N H S after promising in his manifesto no more shake ups of the N H S, the N H S is safe in our hands.
There are no votes for the Tories in the north so have to keep their southern seats cosy. No good Cameron saying it is nothing to do with him it is his government which is responsible for the reorganisation of the N H S after promising in his manifesto no more shake ups of the N H S, the N H S is safe in our hands. scottie dog

1:26pm Tue 17 Dec 13

alive and awake says...

Why can't the T&A get all the facts before they start scare mongering.

I am amazed Sutcliffe as anything to comment on regarding any finances, given his Bulls debacle. Was he advised by that financial genious the Rev. Flowers?
Why can't the T&A get all the facts before they start scare mongering. I am amazed Sutcliffe as anything to comment on regarding any finances, given his Bulls debacle. Was he advised by that financial genious the Rev. Flowers? alive and awake

2:04pm Tue 17 Dec 13

linebacker2 says...

Fact of the matter is that elderly people do use up a very large percentage of the NHS budget so there is some logic in what the government is doing....
Fact of the matter is that elderly people do use up a very large percentage of the NHS budget so there is some logic in what the government is doing.... linebacker2

2:53pm Tue 17 Dec 13

thatsnotmyname says...

linebacker2 wrote:
Fact of the matter is that elderly people do use up a very large percentage of the NHS budget so there is some logic in what the government is doing....
What so every pensioner retires to the south of England?
This is a vote pleaser and nothing else.
[quote][p][bold]linebacker2[/bold] wrote: Fact of the matter is that elderly people do use up a very large percentage of the NHS budget so there is some logic in what the government is doing....[/p][/quote]What so every pensioner retires to the south of England? This is a vote pleaser and nothing else. thatsnotmyname

2:54pm Tue 17 Dec 13

alive and awake says...

linebacker2 wrote:
Fact of the matter is that elderly people do use up a very large percentage of the NHS budget so there is some logic in what the government is doing....
A massive amount of NHS budget is taken up with immigrants, "holiday" visitors, self abusers etc.
[quote][p][bold]linebacker2[/bold] wrote: Fact of the matter is that elderly people do use up a very large percentage of the NHS budget so there is some logic in what the government is doing....[/p][/quote]A massive amount of NHS budget is taken up with immigrants, "holiday" visitors, self abusers etc. alive and awake

3:30pm Tue 17 Dec 13

RollandSmoke says...

Can't we just line the Tories up against the wall and shoot them? There were indeed pre election promises made re the NHS but unfortunately the Tories Winston Smith has been working overtime and all pre election speeches and pledges have been flushed down the memory hole. This is how politics is done in a banana republic. They can do what they want though can't they? The population is under mass hypnosis and think odd shaped ball games are all that really matters. They could abuse your children in front of you and you'd accept it. Hell you'd probably ask if they were warm enough and offer them a cup of tea. Our apathy is costing lives. We are Yorkshire men, we don't just roll over and play dead.
Can't we just line the Tories up against the wall and shoot them? There were indeed pre election promises made re the NHS but unfortunately the Tories Winston Smith has been working overtime and all pre election speeches and pledges have been flushed down the memory hole. This is how politics is done in a banana republic. They can do what they want though can't they? The population is under mass hypnosis and think odd shaped ball games are all that really matters. They could abuse your children in front of you and you'd accept it. Hell you'd probably ask if they were warm enough and offer them a cup of tea. Our apathy is costing lives. We are Yorkshire men, we don't just roll over and play dead. RollandSmoke

3:47pm Tue 17 Dec 13

alive and awake says...

RollandSmoke wrote:
Can't we just line the Tories up against the wall and shoot them? There were indeed pre election promises made re the NHS but unfortunately the Tories Winston Smith has been working overtime and all pre election speeches and pledges have been flushed down the memory hole. This is how politics is done in a banana republic. They can do what they want though can't they? The population is under mass hypnosis and think odd shaped ball games are all that really matters. They could abuse your children in front of you and you'd accept it. Hell you'd probably ask if they were warm enough and offer them a cup of tea. Our apathy is costing lives. We are Yorkshire men, we don't just roll over and play dead.
I think you have over stepped the mark, asking if you can line the Tories up against the wall and shooting them. very naughty but typical of a socialist.
[quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: Can't we just line the Tories up against the wall and shoot them? There were indeed pre election promises made re the NHS but unfortunately the Tories Winston Smith has been working overtime and all pre election speeches and pledges have been flushed down the memory hole. This is how politics is done in a banana republic. They can do what they want though can't they? The population is under mass hypnosis and think odd shaped ball games are all that really matters. They could abuse your children in front of you and you'd accept it. Hell you'd probably ask if they were warm enough and offer them a cup of tea. Our apathy is costing lives. We are Yorkshire men, we don't just roll over and play dead.[/p][/quote]I think you have over stepped the mark, asking if you can line the Tories up against the wall and shooting them. very naughty but typical of a socialist. alive and awake

4:02pm Tue 17 Dec 13

RollandSmoke says...

alive and awake wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote:
Can't we just line the Tories up against the wall and shoot them? There were indeed pre election promises made re the NHS but unfortunately the Tories Winston Smith has been working overtime and all pre election speeches and pledges have been flushed down the memory hole. This is how politics is done in a banana republic. They can do what they want though can't they? The population is under mass hypnosis and think odd shaped ball games are all that really matters. They could abuse your children in front of you and you'd accept it. Hell you'd probably ask if they were warm enough and offer them a cup of tea. Our apathy is costing lives. We are Yorkshire men, we don't just roll over and play dead.
I think you have over stepped the mark, asking if you can line the Tories up against the wall and shooting them. very naughty but typical of a socialist.
I'd consider other options for putting them out of our misery. Now may be a good time for the Tories to emigrate to the Falklands that our soldiers died to keep.
[quote][p][bold]alive and awake[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: Can't we just line the Tories up against the wall and shoot them? There were indeed pre election promises made re the NHS but unfortunately the Tories Winston Smith has been working overtime and all pre election speeches and pledges have been flushed down the memory hole. This is how politics is done in a banana republic. They can do what they want though can't they? The population is under mass hypnosis and think odd shaped ball games are all that really matters. They could abuse your children in front of you and you'd accept it. Hell you'd probably ask if they were warm enough and offer them a cup of tea. Our apathy is costing lives. We are Yorkshire men, we don't just roll over and play dead.[/p][/quote]I think you have over stepped the mark, asking if you can line the Tories up against the wall and shooting them. very naughty but typical of a socialist.[/p][/quote]I'd consider other options for putting them out of our misery. Now may be a good time for the Tories to emigrate to the Falklands that our soldiers died to keep. RollandSmoke

4:24pm Tue 17 Dec 13

allinittogether says...

scottie dog wrote:
There are no votes for the Tories in the north so have to keep their southern seats cosy. No good Cameron saying it is nothing to do with him it is his government which is responsible for the reorganisation of the N H S after promising in his manifesto no more shake ups of the N H S, the N H S is safe in our hands.
In a nutshell! That's exactly what it's all about. Roll on 2015 and we can get these charlatans out.
[quote][p][bold]scottie dog[/bold] wrote: There are no votes for the Tories in the north so have to keep their southern seats cosy. No good Cameron saying it is nothing to do with him it is his government which is responsible for the reorganisation of the N H S after promising in his manifesto no more shake ups of the N H S, the N H S is safe in our hands.[/p][/quote]In a nutshell! That's exactly what it's all about. Roll on 2015 and we can get these charlatans out. allinittogether

4:41pm Tue 17 Dec 13

alive and awake says...

allinittogether wrote:
scottie dog wrote:
There are no votes for the Tories in the north so have to keep their southern seats cosy. No good Cameron saying it is nothing to do with him it is his government which is responsible for the reorganisation of the N H S after promising in his manifesto no more shake ups of the N H S, the N H S is safe in our hands.
In a nutshell! That's exactly what it's all about. Roll on 2015 and we can get these charlatans out.
Have you heard yourself. do you really want Rev Flower's mates You know Balls et al running this Country.
[quote][p][bold]allinittogether[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]scottie dog[/bold] wrote: There are no votes for the Tories in the north so have to keep their southern seats cosy. No good Cameron saying it is nothing to do with him it is his government which is responsible for the reorganisation of the N H S after promising in his manifesto no more shake ups of the N H S, the N H S is safe in our hands.[/p][/quote]In a nutshell! That's exactly what it's all about. Roll on 2015 and we can get these charlatans out.[/p][/quote]Have you heard yourself. do you really want Rev Flower's mates You know Balls et al running this Country. alive and awake

5:32pm Tue 17 Dec 13

RollandSmoke says...

Here's one for the numerous Tory shills on here. When a politician takes their seat in the House of Commons they swear an Oath of Allegiance to the Queen. David Cameron has said he is "Proud to be a Zionist", but what does that mean? Is he saying he has allegiance to the State of Israel (a foreign country) or is he saying his allegiance is to the Rothschilds who's name appears on the Balfour declaration as the beneficiary of the State of Israel (still a foreign country)? Either way how is this not treason? What is the sentence for treason nowadays?
Here's one for the numerous Tory shills on here. When a politician takes their seat in the House of Commons they swear an Oath of Allegiance to the Queen. David Cameron has said he is "Proud to be a Zionist", but what does that mean? Is he saying he has allegiance to the State of Israel (a foreign country) or is he saying his allegiance is to the Rothschilds who's name appears on the Balfour declaration as the beneficiary of the State of Israel (still a foreign country)? Either way how is this not treason? What is the sentence for treason nowadays? RollandSmoke

5:34pm Tue 17 Dec 13

alive and awake says...

RollandSmoke wrote:
Here's one for the numerous Tory shills on here. When a politician takes their seat in the House of Commons they swear an Oath of Allegiance to the Queen. David Cameron has said he is "Proud to be a Zionist", but what does that mean? Is he saying he has allegiance to the State of Israel (a foreign country) or is he saying his allegiance is to the Rothschilds who's name appears on the Balfour declaration as the beneficiary of the State of Israel (still a foreign country)? Either way how is this not treason? What is the sentence for treason nowadays?
Why do you ask, you are one's who don't believe in the death penalty.
[quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: Here's one for the numerous Tory shills on here. When a politician takes their seat in the House of Commons they swear an Oath of Allegiance to the Queen. David Cameron has said he is "Proud to be a Zionist", but what does that mean? Is he saying he has allegiance to the State of Israel (a foreign country) or is he saying his allegiance is to the Rothschilds who's name appears on the Balfour declaration as the beneficiary of the State of Israel (still a foreign country)? Either way how is this not treason? What is the sentence for treason nowadays?[/p][/quote]Why do you ask, you are one's who don't believe in the death penalty. alive and awake

5:37pm Tue 17 Dec 13

RollandSmoke says...

alive and awake wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote:
Here's one for the numerous Tory shills on here. When a politician takes their seat in the House of Commons they swear an Oath of Allegiance to the Queen. David Cameron has said he is "Proud to be a Zionist", but what does that mean? Is he saying he has allegiance to the State of Israel (a foreign country) or is he saying his allegiance is to the Rothschilds who's name appears on the Balfour declaration as the beneficiary of the State of Israel (still a foreign country)? Either way how is this not treason? What is the sentence for treason nowadays?
Why do you ask, you are one's who don't believe in the death penalty.
I could make an exception. Would you like to answer the question?
[quote][p][bold]alive and awake[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: Here's one for the numerous Tory shills on here. When a politician takes their seat in the House of Commons they swear an Oath of Allegiance to the Queen. David Cameron has said he is "Proud to be a Zionist", but what does that mean? Is he saying he has allegiance to the State of Israel (a foreign country) or is he saying his allegiance is to the Rothschilds who's name appears on the Balfour declaration as the beneficiary of the State of Israel (still a foreign country)? Either way how is this not treason? What is the sentence for treason nowadays?[/p][/quote]Why do you ask, you are one's who don't believe in the death penalty.[/p][/quote]I could make an exception. Would you like to answer the question? RollandSmoke

5:41pm Tue 17 Dec 13

linebacker2 says...

RollandSmoke wrote:
Can't we just line the Tories up against the wall and shoot them? There were indeed pre election promises made re the NHS but unfortunately the Tories Winston Smith has been working overtime and all pre election speeches and pledges have been flushed down the memory hole. This is how politics is done in a banana republic. They can do what they want though can't they? The population is under mass hypnosis and think odd shaped ball games are all that really matters. They could abuse your children in front of you and you'd accept it. Hell you'd probably ask if they were warm enough and offer them a cup of tea. Our apathy is costing lives. We are Yorkshire men, we don't just roll over and play dead.
Vast majority of surgeons are Tories, how are you going to run the NHS after you've shot the surgeons?
[quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: Can't we just line the Tories up against the wall and shoot them? There were indeed pre election promises made re the NHS but unfortunately the Tories Winston Smith has been working overtime and all pre election speeches and pledges have been flushed down the memory hole. This is how politics is done in a banana republic. They can do what they want though can't they? The population is under mass hypnosis and think odd shaped ball games are all that really matters. They could abuse your children in front of you and you'd accept it. Hell you'd probably ask if they were warm enough and offer them a cup of tea. Our apathy is costing lives. We are Yorkshire men, we don't just roll over and play dead.[/p][/quote]Vast majority of surgeons are Tories, how are you going to run the NHS after you've shot the surgeons? linebacker2

5:49pm Tue 17 Dec 13

RollandSmoke says...

linebacker2 wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote:
Can't we just line the Tories up against the wall and shoot them? There were indeed pre election promises made re the NHS but unfortunately the Tories Winston Smith has been working overtime and all pre election speeches and pledges have been flushed down the memory hole. This is how politics is done in a banana republic. They can do what they want though can't they? The population is under mass hypnosis and think odd shaped ball games are all that really matters. They could abuse your children in front of you and you'd accept it. Hell you'd probably ask if they were warm enough and offer them a cup of tea. Our apathy is costing lives. We are Yorkshire men, we don't just roll over and play dead.
Vast majority of surgeons are Tories, how are you going to run the NHS after you've shot the surgeons?
You make statements yet offer no proof. As we cast our votes in secret how do you know the voting tendencies of this or any other group of people based on their occupation?. I could make the claim that most bankers vote Tory and therefore the Tories are responsible for the mess we are currently in. Can you tell me why I'd be wrong to do so?
[quote][p][bold]linebacker2[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: Can't we just line the Tories up against the wall and shoot them? There were indeed pre election promises made re the NHS but unfortunately the Tories Winston Smith has been working overtime and all pre election speeches and pledges have been flushed down the memory hole. This is how politics is done in a banana republic. They can do what they want though can't they? The population is under mass hypnosis and think odd shaped ball games are all that really matters. They could abuse your children in front of you and you'd accept it. Hell you'd probably ask if they were warm enough and offer them a cup of tea. Our apathy is costing lives. We are Yorkshire men, we don't just roll over and play dead.[/p][/quote]Vast majority of surgeons are Tories, how are you going to run the NHS after you've shot the surgeons?[/p][/quote]You make statements yet offer no proof. As we cast our votes in secret how do you know the voting tendencies of this or any other group of people based on their occupation?. I could make the claim that most bankers vote Tory and therefore the Tories are responsible for the mess we are currently in. Can you tell me why I'd be wrong to do so? RollandSmoke

5:56pm Tue 17 Dec 13

alive and awake says...

RollandSmoke wrote:
alive and awake wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote:
Here's one for the numerous Tory shills on here. When a politician takes their seat in the House of Commons they swear an Oath of Allegiance to the Queen. David Cameron has said he is "Proud to be a Zionist", but what does that mean? Is he saying he has allegiance to the State of Israel (a foreign country) or is he saying his allegiance is to the Rothschilds who's name appears on the Balfour declaration as the beneficiary of the State of Israel (still a foreign country)? Either way how is this not treason? What is the sentence for treason nowadays?
Why do you ask, you are one's who don't believe in the death penalty.
I could make an exception. Would you like to answer the question?
All he is saying is he believes Jews should have their own Homeland and he is proud to believe that. They have got it whats the problem?
[quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]alive and awake[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: Here's one for the numerous Tory shills on here. When a politician takes their seat in the House of Commons they swear an Oath of Allegiance to the Queen. David Cameron has said he is "Proud to be a Zionist", but what does that mean? Is he saying he has allegiance to the State of Israel (a foreign country) or is he saying his allegiance is to the Rothschilds who's name appears on the Balfour declaration as the beneficiary of the State of Israel (still a foreign country)? Either way how is this not treason? What is the sentence for treason nowadays?[/p][/quote]Why do you ask, you are one's who don't believe in the death penalty.[/p][/quote]I could make an exception. Would you like to answer the question?[/p][/quote]All he is saying is he believes Jews should have their own Homeland and he is proud to believe that. They have got it whats the problem? alive and awake

5:58pm Tue 17 Dec 13

RollandSmoke says...

alive and awake wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote:
alive and awake wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote:
Here's one for the numerous Tory shills on here. When a politician takes their seat in the House of Commons they swear an Oath of Allegiance to the Queen. David Cameron has said he is "Proud to be a Zionist", but what does that mean? Is he saying he has allegiance to the State of Israel (a foreign country) or is he saying his allegiance is to the Rothschilds who's name appears on the Balfour declaration as the beneficiary of the State of Israel (still a foreign country)? Either way how is this not treason? What is the sentence for treason nowadays?
Why do you ask, you are one's who don't believe in the death penalty.
I could make an exception. Would you like to answer the question?
All he is saying is he believes Jews should have their own Homeland and he is proud to believe that. They have got it whats the problem?
They've had it since long before Cameron was born so why the need to make such a declaration? Are we a Zionist country?
[quote][p][bold]alive and awake[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]alive and awake[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: Here's one for the numerous Tory shills on here. When a politician takes their seat in the House of Commons they swear an Oath of Allegiance to the Queen. David Cameron has said he is "Proud to be a Zionist", but what does that mean? Is he saying he has allegiance to the State of Israel (a foreign country) or is he saying his allegiance is to the Rothschilds who's name appears on the Balfour declaration as the beneficiary of the State of Israel (still a foreign country)? Either way how is this not treason? What is the sentence for treason nowadays?[/p][/quote]Why do you ask, you are one's who don't believe in the death penalty.[/p][/quote]I could make an exception. Would you like to answer the question?[/p][/quote]All he is saying is he believes Jews should have their own Homeland and he is proud to believe that. They have got it whats the problem?[/p][/quote]They've had it since long before Cameron was born so why the need to make such a declaration? Are we a Zionist country? RollandSmoke

6:00pm Tue 17 Dec 13

alive and awake says...

RollandSmoke wrote:
alive and awake wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote:
alive and awake wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote:
Here's one for the numerous Tory shills on here. When a politician takes their seat in the House of Commons they swear an Oath of Allegiance to the Queen. David Cameron has said he is "Proud to be a Zionist", but what does that mean? Is he saying he has allegiance to the State of Israel (a foreign country) or is he saying his allegiance is to the Rothschilds who's name appears on the Balfour declaration as the beneficiary of the State of Israel (still a foreign country)? Either way how is this not treason? What is the sentence for treason nowadays?
Why do you ask, you are one's who don't believe in the death penalty.
I could make an exception. Would you like to answer the question?
All he is saying is he believes Jews should have their own Homeland and he is proud to believe that. They have got it whats the problem?
They've had it since long before Cameron was born so why the need to make such a declaration? Are we a Zionist country?
I am happy to think we are.
[quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]alive and awake[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]alive and awake[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: Here's one for the numerous Tory shills on here. When a politician takes their seat in the House of Commons they swear an Oath of Allegiance to the Queen. David Cameron has said he is "Proud to be a Zionist", but what does that mean? Is he saying he has allegiance to the State of Israel (a foreign country) or is he saying his allegiance is to the Rothschilds who's name appears on the Balfour declaration as the beneficiary of the State of Israel (still a foreign country)? Either way how is this not treason? What is the sentence for treason nowadays?[/p][/quote]Why do you ask, you are one's who don't believe in the death penalty.[/p][/quote]I could make an exception. Would you like to answer the question?[/p][/quote]All he is saying is he believes Jews should have their own Homeland and he is proud to believe that. They have got it whats the problem?[/p][/quote]They've had it since long before Cameron was born so why the need to make such a declaration? Are we a Zionist country?[/p][/quote]I am happy to think we are. alive and awake

6:06pm Tue 17 Dec 13

RollandSmoke says...

alive and awake wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote:
alive and awake wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote:
alive and awake wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote:
Here's one for the numerous Tory shills on here. When a politician takes their seat in the House of Commons they swear an Oath of Allegiance to the Queen. David Cameron has said he is "Proud to be a Zionist", but what does that mean? Is he saying he has allegiance to the State of Israel (a foreign country) or is he saying his allegiance is to the Rothschilds who's name appears on the Balfour declaration as the beneficiary of the State of Israel (still a foreign country)? Either way how is this not treason? What is the sentence for treason nowadays?
Why do you ask, you are one's who don't believe in the death penalty.
I could make an exception. Would you like to answer the question?
All he is saying is he believes Jews should have their own Homeland and he is proud to believe that. They have got it whats the problem?
They've had it since long before Cameron was born so why the need to make such a declaration? Are we a Zionist country?
I am happy to think we are.
Why? In what way is it beneficial to us to have a government that is working toward the goals of another country? An apartheid country at that.
[quote][p][bold]alive and awake[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]alive and awake[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]alive and awake[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: Here's one for the numerous Tory shills on here. When a politician takes their seat in the House of Commons they swear an Oath of Allegiance to the Queen. David Cameron has said he is "Proud to be a Zionist", but what does that mean? Is he saying he has allegiance to the State of Israel (a foreign country) or is he saying his allegiance is to the Rothschilds who's name appears on the Balfour declaration as the beneficiary of the State of Israel (still a foreign country)? Either way how is this not treason? What is the sentence for treason nowadays?[/p][/quote]Why do you ask, you are one's who don't believe in the death penalty.[/p][/quote]I could make an exception. Would you like to answer the question?[/p][/quote]All he is saying is he believes Jews should have their own Homeland and he is proud to believe that. They have got it whats the problem?[/p][/quote]They've had it since long before Cameron was born so why the need to make such a declaration? Are we a Zionist country?[/p][/quote]I am happy to think we are.[/p][/quote]Why? In what way is it beneficial to us to have a government that is working toward the goals of another country? An apartheid country at that. RollandSmoke

6:29pm Tue 17 Dec 13

alive and awake says...

RollandSmoke wrote:
alive and awake wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote:
alive and awake wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote:
alive and awake wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote:
Here's one for the numerous Tory shills on here. When a politician takes their seat in the House of Commons they swear an Oath of Allegiance to the Queen. David Cameron has said he is "Proud to be a Zionist", but what does that mean? Is he saying he has allegiance to the State of Israel (a foreign country) or is he saying his allegiance is to the Rothschilds who's name appears on the Balfour declaration as the beneficiary of the State of Israel (still a foreign country)? Either way how is this not treason? What is the sentence for treason nowadays?
Why do you ask, you are one's who don't believe in the death penalty.
I could make an exception. Would you like to answer the question?
All he is saying is he believes Jews should have their own Homeland and he is proud to believe that. They have got it whats the problem?
They've had it since long before Cameron was born so why the need to make such a declaration? Are we a Zionist country?
I am happy to think we are.
Why? In what way is it beneficial to us to have a government that is working toward the goals of another country? An apartheid country at that.
If you do not know the answer to that, then you are more stupid than you normally portray yourself. I have suspected that for a while now.
[quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]alive and awake[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]alive and awake[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]alive and awake[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: Here's one for the numerous Tory shills on here. When a politician takes their seat in the House of Commons they swear an Oath of Allegiance to the Queen. David Cameron has said he is "Proud to be a Zionist", but what does that mean? Is he saying he has allegiance to the State of Israel (a foreign country) or is he saying his allegiance is to the Rothschilds who's name appears on the Balfour declaration as the beneficiary of the State of Israel (still a foreign country)? Either way how is this not treason? What is the sentence for treason nowadays?[/p][/quote]Why do you ask, you are one's who don't believe in the death penalty.[/p][/quote]I could make an exception. Would you like to answer the question?[/p][/quote]All he is saying is he believes Jews should have their own Homeland and he is proud to believe that. They have got it whats the problem?[/p][/quote]They've had it since long before Cameron was born so why the need to make such a declaration? Are we a Zionist country?[/p][/quote]I am happy to think we are.[/p][/quote]Why? In what way is it beneficial to us to have a government that is working toward the goals of another country? An apartheid country at that.[/p][/quote]If you do not know the answer to that, then you are more stupid than you normally portray yourself. I have suspected that for a while now. alive and awake

6:33pm Tue 17 Dec 13

RollandSmoke says...

alive and awake wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote:
alive and awake wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote:
alive and awake wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote:
alive and awake wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote:
Here's one for the numerous Tory shills on here. When a politician takes their seat in the House of Commons they swear an Oath of Allegiance to the Queen. David Cameron has said he is "Proud to be a Zionist", but what does that mean? Is he saying he has allegiance to the State of Israel (a foreign country) or is he saying his allegiance is to the Rothschilds who's name appears on the Balfour declaration as the beneficiary of the State of Israel (still a foreign country)? Either way how is this not treason? What is the sentence for treason nowadays?
Why do you ask, you are one's who don't believe in the death penalty.
I could make an exception. Would you like to answer the question?
All he is saying is he believes Jews should have their own Homeland and he is proud to believe that. They have got it whats the problem?
They've had it since long before Cameron was born so why the need to make such a declaration? Are we a Zionist country?
I am happy to think we are.
Why? In what way is it beneficial to us to have a government that is working toward the goals of another country? An apartheid country at that.
If you do not know the answer to that, then you are more stupid than you normally portray yourself. I have suspected that for a while now.
Oh I know why we are doing it, I just wondered if any of the Tory scum would admit to it. Is our Queen a Zionist? After all the Royals have been inter marrying into the Rothschild family for centuries.
[quote][p][bold]alive and awake[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]alive and awake[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]alive and awake[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]alive and awake[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: Here's one for the numerous Tory shills on here. When a politician takes their seat in the House of Commons they swear an Oath of Allegiance to the Queen. David Cameron has said he is "Proud to be a Zionist", but what does that mean? Is he saying he has allegiance to the State of Israel (a foreign country) or is he saying his allegiance is to the Rothschilds who's name appears on the Balfour declaration as the beneficiary of the State of Israel (still a foreign country)? Either way how is this not treason? What is the sentence for treason nowadays?[/p][/quote]Why do you ask, you are one's who don't believe in the death penalty.[/p][/quote]I could make an exception. Would you like to answer the question?[/p][/quote]All he is saying is he believes Jews should have their own Homeland and he is proud to believe that. They have got it whats the problem?[/p][/quote]They've had it since long before Cameron was born so why the need to make such a declaration? Are we a Zionist country?[/p][/quote]I am happy to think we are.[/p][/quote]Why? In what way is it beneficial to us to have a government that is working toward the goals of another country? An apartheid country at that.[/p][/quote]If you do not know the answer to that, then you are more stupid than you normally portray yourself. I have suspected that for a while now.[/p][/quote]Oh I know why we are doing it, I just wondered if any of the Tory scum would admit to it. Is our Queen a Zionist? After all the Royals have been inter marrying into the Rothschild family for centuries. RollandSmoke

9:13pm Tue 17 Dec 13

allinittogether says...

alive and awake wrote:
allinittogether wrote:
scottie dog wrote:
There are no votes for the Tories in the north so have to keep their southern seats cosy. No good Cameron saying it is nothing to do with him it is his government which is responsible for the reorganisation of the N H S after promising in his manifesto no more shake ups of the N H S, the N H S is safe in our hands.
In a nutshell! That's exactly what it's all about. Roll on 2015 and we can get these charlatans out.
Have you heard yourself. do you really want Rev Flower's mates You know Balls et al running this Country.
I'll have anyone running the country other than the vicious mean spirited bunch we have now. Spivs the lot of 'em.
[quote][p][bold]alive and awake[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]allinittogether[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]scottie dog[/bold] wrote: There are no votes for the Tories in the north so have to keep their southern seats cosy. No good Cameron saying it is nothing to do with him it is his government which is responsible for the reorganisation of the N H S after promising in his manifesto no more shake ups of the N H S, the N H S is safe in our hands.[/p][/quote]In a nutshell! That's exactly what it's all about. Roll on 2015 and we can get these charlatans out.[/p][/quote]Have you heard yourself. do you really want Rev Flower's mates You know Balls et al running this Country.[/p][/quote]I'll have anyone running the country other than the vicious mean spirited bunch we have now. Spivs the lot of 'em. allinittogether

9:13pm Tue 17 Dec 13

RollandSmoke says...

Come on someone back old Queenie up here and tell us that she has no choice but to be a Zionist due to the Coronation oath in which she swore to uphold the Covenant on the Stone of Destiny as she is from the royal line of king David of Israel and the British Throne is the Throne of David that is to be inherited by Christ, during the Second-Coming. The word British is Hebrew and it means "Covenant Man" or the "People of The Covenant", as it does also in the Welsh language. I will say that I don't believe any of this religious stuff but then I never swore an oath on it.
"And we will build Jerusalem (Zion) in England's green and pleasant land" Sing along now!
Come on someone back old Queenie up here and tell us that she has no choice but to be a Zionist due to the Coronation oath in which she swore to uphold the Covenant on the Stone of Destiny as she is from the royal line of king David of Israel and the British Throne is the Throne of David that is to be inherited by Christ, during the Second-Coming. The word British is Hebrew and it means "Covenant Man" or the "People of The Covenant", as it does also in the Welsh language. I will say that I don't believe any of this religious stuff but then I never swore an oath on it. "And we will build Jerusalem (Zion) in England's green and pleasant land" Sing along now! RollandSmoke

10:15pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Victor Clayton says...

RollandSmoke wrote:
alive and awake wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote:
Here's one for the numerous Tory shills on here. When a politician takes their seat in the House of Commons they swear an Oath of Allegiance to the Queen. David Cameron has said he is "Proud to be a Zionist", but what does that mean? Is he saying he has allegiance to the State of Israel (a foreign country) or is he saying his allegiance is to the Rothschilds who's name appears on the Balfour declaration as the beneficiary of the State of Israel (still a foreign country)? Either way how is this not treason? What is the sentence for treason nowadays?
Why do you ask, you are one's who don't believe in the death penalty.
I could make an exception. Would you like to answer the question?
You are the UK s answers to Robert Mugabe.
[quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]alive and awake[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: Here's one for the numerous Tory shills on here. When a politician takes their seat in the House of Commons they swear an Oath of Allegiance to the Queen. David Cameron has said he is "Proud to be a Zionist", but what does that mean? Is he saying he has allegiance to the State of Israel (a foreign country) or is he saying his allegiance is to the Rothschilds who's name appears on the Balfour declaration as the beneficiary of the State of Israel (still a foreign country)? Either way how is this not treason? What is the sentence for treason nowadays?[/p][/quote]Why do you ask, you are one's who don't believe in the death penalty.[/p][/quote]I could make an exception. Would you like to answer the question?[/p][/quote]You are the UK s answers to Robert Mugabe. Victor Clayton

10:30pm Tue 17 Dec 13

RollandSmoke says...

Victor Clayton wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote:
alive and awake wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote:
Here's one for the numerous Tory shills on here. When a politician takes their seat in the House of Commons they swear an Oath of Allegiance to the Queen. David Cameron has said he is "Proud to be a Zionist", but what does that mean? Is he saying he has allegiance to the State of Israel (a foreign country) or is he saying his allegiance is to the Rothschilds who's name appears on the Balfour declaration as the beneficiary of the State of Israel (still a foreign country)? Either way how is this not treason? What is the sentence for treason nowadays?
Why do you ask, you are one's who don't believe in the death penalty.
I could make an exception. Would you like to answer the question?
You are the UK s answers to Robert Mugabe.
Must admit I don't know much about Mugabe so I'm not quite sure what you're saying and can't be bothered reading his life story just at the moment in order to work it out. I very much doubt I'm the answer to anything.
[quote][p][bold]Victor Clayton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]alive and awake[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: Here's one for the numerous Tory shills on here. When a politician takes their seat in the House of Commons they swear an Oath of Allegiance to the Queen. David Cameron has said he is "Proud to be a Zionist", but what does that mean? Is he saying he has allegiance to the State of Israel (a foreign country) or is he saying his allegiance is to the Rothschilds who's name appears on the Balfour declaration as the beneficiary of the State of Israel (still a foreign country)? Either way how is this not treason? What is the sentence for treason nowadays?[/p][/quote]Why do you ask, you are one's who don't believe in the death penalty.[/p][/quote]I could make an exception. Would you like to answer the question?[/p][/quote]You are the UK s answers to Robert Mugabe.[/p][/quote]Must admit I don't know much about Mugabe so I'm not quite sure what you're saying and can't be bothered reading his life story just at the moment in order to work it out. I very much doubt I'm the answer to anything. RollandSmoke

10:32am Fri 20 Dec 13

Prisoner Cell Block A says...

linebacker2 wrote:
Fact of the matter is that elderly people do use up a very large percentage of the NHS budget so there is some logic in what the government is doing....
Fact is they have also made multi millions of pounds contributions over their working life to fund the NHS and their care when elderly.

The FACT that this and previous governments have squandered, wasted and stolen these funds to use elsewhere is of no importance?

Our society is being ripped apart by these people nazis and we are standing by and allowing it.

If we can't afford to fund our NHS and local services then stop foreign aid, foreign wars and concentrate on the good people of this isle.
[quote][p][bold]linebacker2[/bold] wrote: Fact of the matter is that elderly people do use up a very large percentage of the NHS budget so there is some logic in what the government is doing....[/p][/quote]Fact is they have also made multi millions of pounds contributions over their working life to fund the NHS and their care when elderly. The FACT that this and previous governments have squandered, wasted and stolen these funds to use elsewhere is of no importance? Our society is being ripped apart by these people nazis and we are standing by and allowing it. If we can't afford to fund our NHS and local services then stop foreign aid, foreign wars and concentrate on the good people of this isle. Prisoner Cell Block A

10:33am Fri 20 Dec 13

Prisoner Cell Block A says...

RollandSmoke wrote:
Can't we just line the Tories up against the wall and shoot them? There were indeed pre election promises made re the NHS but unfortunately the Tories Winston Smith has been working overtime and all pre election speeches and pledges have been flushed down the memory hole. This is how politics is done in a banana republic. They can do what they want though can't they? The population is under mass hypnosis and think odd shaped ball games are all that really matters. They could abuse your children in front of you and you'd accept it. Hell you'd probably ask if they were warm enough and offer them a cup of tea. Our apathy is costing lives. We are Yorkshire men, we don't just roll over and play dead.
Not just Tories, politicians. They are of one ilk and one ilk only.
[quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: Can't we just line the Tories up against the wall and shoot them? There were indeed pre election promises made re the NHS but unfortunately the Tories Winston Smith has been working overtime and all pre election speeches and pledges have been flushed down the memory hole. This is how politics is done in a banana republic. They can do what they want though can't they? The population is under mass hypnosis and think odd shaped ball games are all that really matters. They could abuse your children in front of you and you'd accept it. Hell you'd probably ask if they were warm enough and offer them a cup of tea. Our apathy is costing lives. We are Yorkshire men, we don't just roll over and play dead.[/p][/quote]Not just Tories, politicians. They are of one ilk and one ilk only. Prisoner Cell Block A

12:34pm Fri 20 Dec 13

scottie dog says...

Prisoner Cell Block A wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote:
Can't we just line the Tories up against the wall and shoot them? There were indeed pre election promises made re the NHS but unfortunately the Tories Winston Smith has been working overtime and all pre election speeches and pledges have been flushed down the memory hole. This is how politics is done in a banana republic. They can do what they want though can't they? The population is under mass hypnosis and think odd shaped ball games are all that really matters. They could abuse your children in front of you and you'd accept it. Hell you'd probably ask if they were warm enough and offer them a cup of tea. Our apathy is costing lives. We are Yorkshire men, we don't just roll over and play dead.
Not just Tories, politicians. They are of one ilk and one ilk only.
No wonder people are turned off politicians, when you look at the three main parties there is not a leader who inspires any confidence that they will govern for the many not just the few. We have an unelected second chamber where they get £300 just for turning up one peer has already been caught leaving after less than an hour and states he knows 50 more on the fiddle , whether this is true has yet to be established but it still leaves a bitter taste in the mouth. Duncan Smith showed his contempt for the people who had signed a 140,000 signature petition on food banks caused by poverty by walking out and leaving his underling to speak on behalf of the government, a speech which Gerald Kaufman later said was the worst he had ever heard in 40 odd years in the commons. What we need but are unlikely to get is a root and branch overhaul of the commons and the upper house replacing them with people who actually live in the real world and not behave like children in a kindergarten when debates are taking place.
[quote][p][bold]Prisoner Cell Block A[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: Can't we just line the Tories up against the wall and shoot them? There were indeed pre election promises made re the NHS but unfortunately the Tories Winston Smith has been working overtime and all pre election speeches and pledges have been flushed down the memory hole. This is how politics is done in a banana republic. They can do what they want though can't they? The population is under mass hypnosis and think odd shaped ball games are all that really matters. They could abuse your children in front of you and you'd accept it. Hell you'd probably ask if they were warm enough and offer them a cup of tea. Our apathy is costing lives. We are Yorkshire men, we don't just roll over and play dead.[/p][/quote]Not just Tories, politicians. They are of one ilk and one ilk only.[/p][/quote]No wonder people are turned off politicians, when you look at the three main parties there is not a leader who inspires any confidence that they will govern for the many not just the few. We have an unelected second chamber where they get £300 just for turning up one peer has already been caught leaving after less than an hour and states he knows 50 more on the fiddle , whether this is true has yet to be established but it still leaves a bitter taste in the mouth. Duncan Smith showed his contempt for the people who had signed a 140,000 signature petition on food banks caused by poverty by walking out and leaving his underling to speak on behalf of the government, a speech which Gerald Kaufman later said was the worst he had ever heard in 40 odd years in the commons. What we need but are unlikely to get is a root and branch overhaul of the commons and the upper house replacing them with people who actually live in the real world and not behave like children in a kindergarten when debates are taking place. scottie dog

1:48pm Fri 20 Dec 13

Andy2010 says...

RollandSmoke wrote:
Come on someone back old Queenie up here and tell us that she has no choice but to be a Zionist due to the Coronation oath in which she swore to uphold the Covenant on the Stone of Destiny as she is from the royal line of king David of Israel and the British Throne is the Throne of David that is to be inherited by Christ, during the Second-Coming. The word British is Hebrew and it means "Covenant Man" or the "People of The Covenant", as it does also in the Welsh language. I will say that I don't believe any of this religious stuff but then I never swore an oath on it.
"And we will build Jerusalem (Zion) in England's green and pleasant land" Sing along now!
lol...been reading those conspiracy internet sites again Rollie?

Or was it Dan Browns latest blockbuster?

Keep it coming though as most of us on here find your paranoia hilarious
[quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: Come on someone back old Queenie up here and tell us that she has no choice but to be a Zionist due to the Coronation oath in which she swore to uphold the Covenant on the Stone of Destiny as she is from the royal line of king David of Israel and the British Throne is the Throne of David that is to be inherited by Christ, during the Second-Coming. The word British is Hebrew and it means "Covenant Man" or the "People of The Covenant", as it does also in the Welsh language. I will say that I don't believe any of this religious stuff but then I never swore an oath on it. "And we will build Jerusalem (Zion) in England's green and pleasant land" Sing along now![/p][/quote]lol...been reading those conspiracy internet sites again Rollie? Or was it Dan Browns latest blockbuster? Keep it coming though as most of us on here find your paranoia hilarious Andy2010

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