da Vinci robot provides pioneering treatment at Bradford Royal Infirmary (From Bradford Telegraph and Argus)

I saw a TV feature on this, it's a brilliant thing and very good news that we have it.

Phew! Something good happening for Bradford.

That Swedish TV Series Almost Human has an interesting take on the future of Robots!

26 operations in 180 days...you would have expected pretty intensive use as they learn how to use it and become a centre of excellence with it...but one operation a week only?

Cooperlane2 wrote:
26 operations in 180 days...you would have expected pretty intensive use as they learn how to use it and become a centre of excellence with it...but one operation a week only?

Good question when the article says it cost £2M.
Should be in use 7 days a week and many hours in each.
£2M divided by 26 a lot of money each operation.

How many software upgrades away from making the surgeon redundant is it? As we create technologies that make humans obsolete are we giving any thought to what will become of the people they replace? The Luddites identified this problem long ago but the speed & pace of change is now hundreds of times faster. Should the profits gained from these technologies be funding society or purely benefiting shareholders?

RollandSmoke wrote:
How many software upgrades away from making the surgeon redundant is it? As we create technologies that make humans obsolete are we giving any thought to what will become of the people they replace? The Luddites identified this problem long ago but the speed & pace of change is now hundreds of times faster. Should the profits gained from these technologies be funding society or purely benefiting shareholders?

Do you think there is a reluctance of the BRI surgeons to use it then?
We are the share holders of the NHS and this lack of use not helping us.

Joedavid wrote:

RollandSmoke wrote:
How many software upgrades away from making the surgeon redundant is it? As we create technologies that make humans obsolete are we giving any thought to what will become of the people they replace? The Luddites identified this problem long ago but the speed & pace of change is now hundreds of times faster. Should the profits gained from these technologies be funding society or purely benefiting shareholders?

Do you think there is a reluctance of the BRI surgeons to use it then?
We are the share holders of the NHS and this lack of use not helping us.

It would help to know how long the waiting list for this type of operation is. The surgeons can only deal with those that need it regardless of how the operation is performed. My comment was a more general one looking at how all workers will be effected by labour saving technologies rather than a criticism of the NHS. Work is already well underway demonising the unemployed. Big business strives to reduce labour costs, If they get to the point where they employ no-one do you think they will be socially responsible and If there are no workers contributing income tax should they be making up the shortfall?

RollandSmoke wrote:
How many software upgrades away from making the surgeon redundant is it? As we create technologies that make humans obsolete are we giving any thought to what will become of the people they replace? The Luddites identified this problem long ago but the speed & pace of change is now hundreds of times faster. Should the profits gained from these technologies be funding society or purely benefiting shareholders?

Some people have made themselves obsolete.

Joedavid wrote:

Cooperlane2 wrote: 26 operations in 180 days...you would have expected pretty intensive use as they learn how to use it and become a centre of excellence with it...but one operation a week only?

Good question when the article says it cost £2M. Should be in use 7 days a week and many hours in each. £2M divided by 26 a lot of money each operation.

Having had my procedure done by Mr Addla and the team at the BRI I can assure you that it's not just a matter of sticking a surgeon in the module and doing the operation,even though Mr Addla and his team have done many " Robotic-assisted laparoscopic radical prostatectomy" procedures they have to have a "mentor" within the theatre and in my case the mentor let them down 3 days before my surgery or I would have been the first Da Vinci patient as my operation was booked in for "23rd of July", at the moment the Da Vinci Robot only does two operations as far as I know prostrate/bowel cancer and they have limited theatre time Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Fridays, my procedure took 10 hours in total so at the moment I would think it was one procedure per day and it is very demanding on the surgeon and the surgical team as a hole, with limited theatre time at the BRI I would think there will never be a situation were this machine can be used 7 days a week 52 weeks of the year,but it's very early days with this new pioneering technology be that it's the only machine outside London.

Also what needs to be remembered is these surgeons need many hours of hands on experience for this new procedure and with limited availability the surgeons have been sent to the likes of Paris to gain experience so I think before people start making comment like the above "26 operations in 180 days" we need a little more inside knowledge, I'm sure the operating time will be reduced as the surgeons gain more experience but as I stated above it will never be used 24/7 asBRI don't have the theatre capacity.

nowt fresh wrote:

Joedavid wrote:

Cooperlane2 wrote: 26 operations in 180 days...you would have expected pretty intensive use as they learn how to use it and become a centre of excellence with it...but one operation a week only?

Good question when the article says it cost £2M. Should be in use 7 days a week and many hours in each. £2M divided by 26 a lot of money each operation.

Having had my procedure done by Mr Addla and the team at the BRI I can assure you that it's not just a matter of sticking a surgeon in the module and doing the operation,even though Mr Addla and his team have done many " Robotic-assisted laparoscopic radical prostatectomy" procedures they have to have a "mentor" within the theatre and in my case the mentor let them down 3 days before my surgery or I would have been the first Da Vinci patient as my operation was booked in for "23rd of July", at the moment the Da Vinci Robot only does two operations as far as I know prostrate/bowel cancer and they have limited theatre time Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Fridays, my procedure took 10 hours in total so at the moment I would think it was one procedure per day and it is very demanding on the surgeon and the surgical team as a hole, with limited theatre time at the BRI I would think there will never be a situation were this machine can be used 7 days a week 52 weeks of the year,but it's very early days with this new pioneering technology be that it's the only machine outside London.

Also what needs to be remembered is these surgeons need many hours of hands on experience for this new procedure and with limited availability the surgeons have been sent to the likes of Paris to gain experience so I think before people start making comment like the above "26 operations in 180 days" we need a little more inside knowledge, I'm sure the operating time will be reduced as the surgeons gain more experience but as I stated above it will never be used 24/7 asBRI don't have the theatre capacity.

Put in wrong hospital then, £2m piece of equipment stood idle, no wonder the NHS costs so much.
If Industry spend on equipment it is run night and day to recover the cost and make money.

Having read negative posts to this news story. I hope the posters never have to use the services of Mr Addla and his team. At the moment my husband is waiting to be operated on by Mr Addla's team. A very close member of my family and a family friend have had surgery done by Mr Addla,and l thank god that we in Bradford have such a talented surgeon and technology. If you are a man over 50 l suggest you take a PSA blood test, and if the results are negative you may be glad of this new technology we have in Bradford.

Where would you suggest it should be located then ? Leeds, Manchester,Liverpool it will never run asyou suggest night and day, it's a situation that there aren't enough surgeons with surgical experience available at the moment nation wide this will increase as surgeons gain experience over the coming months and years so location is not relevant,this robot is no different to a MIR scanner (costing at the time over £1million) in the fact that the MIR scanner does not run 24/7 and I would suggest very little if any modern medical kit is used to it's maximum, as was said on Look North Leeds are hoping to purchase one of the Da Vinci robots in the near future but they will have to abide by the set down procedures that all hospitals have set out for them by BMA ?, as previously stated at the moment this robot only does two procedures but in the future I'm sure it will be able to do most "key hole surgery" that is performed at the moment in fact I was talking to one of the "mentors" who I said there was no reason why it could not be used for heart surgery,hysterectomi
es ETC in the future so let's just give it a little time to get established before we start knocking it, also this procedure is used mainly where the surgeon thinks the cancer is contained within the prostrate which is determined by your PSA/Glesson scores, otherwise it can be used along with different treatments on offer such as Radiotherapy,Brachyt
herapy,Hormone therapy,Chemotherapy
,Steroid tablets so the Da Vinci Robot was never the only solution.

PS don't think any medical equipment that is purchased within the NHS is purchased "to recover the cost or to make money" it is there for the benefit of NHS patients, this procedure is available in private hospitals where I'm sure I could have had the same procedure done if I'd had private medical insurance or been able to afford it as the likes of "The Yorkshire Clinic" run their business for profit ?.

Daisy lady,and,nowt fresh,you two have said it all and i applaud you.The negative people on this post evidently have not had or been involved with the dreaded cancer.Any improvement in respect of medical science is a welcome improvement.I will be on the waiting list and cant wait to have my treatment.But if i have to wait then so be it.Credit goes to
Sovereign Health Care for the money donated.

As I say rio8uk neither the BRI or any other hospital will be in a situation to run theses robots 24/7 it is not practical, I wanted the surgeon who did my procedure to be on top form to remove my cancerous prostrate not someone who had just finished a previous night shift (as in my case a 10 hour operation) as Daisy lass says we are very lucky to have a man of Mr Sanjai Addla's stature fighting our corner for a piece of kit costing £2 million and having to justify if on clinical grounds rather than a "recover the cost and make money” basis this man has been fighting to get BRADFORD this robot for at least two years, as pointed out the only one outside London !! but then again we would all expect London to have one wouldn't we, I salute Mr Addla and his surgical team and hope you and thousands more over the years will benefit from this mans skill and forward thinking, all the best for the future rio8uk if your under Mr Addla or Mr Ragavan your in very safe hands believe me.

I'm not knocking it, but query the usage rate as T&A stories miss basic facts.
One would hope it would be doing 3 operations a week now if that surgery time is available.

Cooperlane2 wrote:
I'm not knocking it, but query the usage rate as T&A stories miss basic facts. One would hope it would be doing 3 operations a week now if that surgery time is available.

I'm sure it will given time for training the medical team,I know it is a lot of money but I can assure any man when they get told they have prostrate cancer (the second biggest killer of men) they will be thankful to get this procedure if the cancer is found soon enough, that's why I would ask all men 50 and over to go to their doctors and get their PSA checked (as simple blood test) It may save your life ?, the other side of the argument is the savings to the NHS usually a 3 night stay in hospital,very little if any pain, very little blood loss, quicker rehabilitation,with the individual getting back to work sooner so less working time lost a drain on the economy and employer, so yes the initial cost is great but given my above comments it will pay for itself over the coming years.

Agree with everything nowt fresh has written. He knows he has been through it. My husband had no symptoms (still hasn't) when he had the blood test, but cancer of the prostate was diagnosed. You may think he is unlucky, but we think he is very lucky it was found so early and he will be having surgery soon. Have the test like nowt fresh says it could save your life.

Daisy lady wrote:
Agree with everything nowt fresh has written. He knows he has been through it. My husband had no symptoms (still hasn't) when he had the blood test, but cancer of the prostate was diagnosed. You may think he is unlucky, but we think he is very lucky it was found so early and he will be having surgery soon. Have the test like nowt fresh says it could save your life.

Is the diagnosis confirmed by other means prior to having the surgery?
I ask as my Doctor refuses these PSA tests as not all Doctors agree about the accuracy and the prostate removal is done more than necessary.
I am ok though as I had an examination for something else and that confirmed me as normal for my age.
I wish your husband and others well and a short wait for the operations.

After my husband had a high PSA result he had a biopsy and a MRI scan before he was given the diagnosis. Not all doctors approve of the PSA blood test, another test is in the pipeline which is said to be more accurate,but needs to go through more tests before it will be given on the NHS

Joedavid wrote:

Daisy lady wrote: Agree with everything nowt fresh has written. He knows he has been through it. My husband had no symptoms (still hasn't) when he had the blood test, but cancer of the prostate was diagnosed. You may think he is unlucky, but we think he is very lucky it was found so early and he will be having surgery soon. Have the test like nowt fresh says it could save your life.

Is the diagnosis confirmed by other means prior to having the surgery? I ask as my Doctor refuses these PSA tests as not all Doctors agree about the accuracy and the prostate removal is done more than necessary. I am ok though as I had an examination for something else and that confirmed me as normal for my age. I wish your husband and others well and a short wait for the operations.

The PSA is only a guide and there can be many reasons why the results can show a high PSA reading,in my case this was followed up with an internal examination (done in the doctors surgery) where the doctor examines your prostrate to feel for any abnormalities (in my case most of the prostrate was smooth) which it should be but part of my prostrate had ridges and this caused concern to my GP who then sent me to the BRI for an ultrasonic examination where 13 biopsies were taken (why 13 I don't know) on my follow up consultation with Mr Addla it was confirmed I had a very low Glesson score but my prostrate was cancerous, after 4 months of " active surveillance" I had another PSA test done and the reading had increased enough for my surgeon to suggest I may need to think about surgery,there was never any doubt in my mind from then on that I wanted this cancer out of my body.

Of course there were no guarantees that the cancer had been contained within the prostrate but with both my PSA/Glesson score being low there was every chance that it was, I had my surgery on 1st August and have had two back up PSA result since surgery and the readings have come back with very small PSA readings so in my case everything is looking very positive,I will need to keep returning for PSA tests basically for the rest of my life which is a small price to pay for being cancer free,even within the medical profession the PSA debate still continues but until they come up with a better diagnosis it is still the first port of call.

Good grief, all these poor men with PROSTRATE cancer, it must knock them flat on their backs.
PSA is not a diagnosis, only a marker. The only way to detect cancer with any certainty is to have the TRUS ultrasound guided biopsy where they can work out your Gleason score.There are many men with raised PSA that will not sucumb to prostate cancer.

Willard wrote:
Good grief, all these poor men with PROSTRATE cancer, it must knock them flat on their backs. PSA is not a diagnosis, only a marker. The only way to detect cancer with any certainty is to have the TRUS ultrasound guided biopsy where they can work out your Gleason score.There are many men with raised PSA that will not sucumb to prostate cancer.

"There are many men with raised PSA that will not sucumb to prostate cancer" point out where anyone said they would ?? and yes being told you have prostrate cancer DOES KNOCK YOU FLAT ON YOU BACK a rather insensitive comment !! but I would assume no more than being told you have bowel cancer or stomach cancer, did I not comment on the "TRUS ultrasound guided biopsy where they can work out your Gleason score" above ? just what's your point of a rather nasty post..!! re "Good grief, all these poor men with PROSTRATE cancer" obviously a female.

What a spiteful post Willard, yes it does knock the man diagnosed flat on his back, his wife and family as well,but with the care and help from the great Urology team we have in Bradford we dust ourselves off and start the fight back. A fight that l am pleased to say many men win.