MPs' shock as gamblers put £400m a year in high stakes slot machines (From Bradford Telegraph and Argus)

I may be wrong but if almost £400 million is spent by gamblers and only £12 million profit made, either I have read it wrong or sombodies accountant is very lucky! That is a huge difference in money! Where is the rest?

£400 million put into the machines
97% paid out to punters
£12 million left.
I think this is a simplification. I expect the amount wagered was a lot less because the gamblers would put a lot of their winnings back into the machines.

These figures are either extremely shocking or highly dubious. Assuming there are 400,000 people in Bradford who are old enough to enter a betting shop, they'd have to be spending £1,000 each a year. As I don't know anyone who ever goes in these shops there must be people spending thousands a year if the numbers are right.

If the MPs are so disgusted about it why aren't they trying to raise some legislation about it? Perhaps Galloway should attend parliament a bit more rather than his other priorities!

Meanwhile someone who presided over a glut of these opening has been 'honoured'. Woe.

Philip Davies received benefits worth more than £10,000 and backed betting industry as MPs proposed changes to law.
The parliamentarian has also been given an annual "subscription" worth £4,680 from Peninsula Business Services, run by Peter Done – one of two brothers who founded BetFred, a bookmaker with 1,000 betting shops in Britain and which took over the Tote. Done remains a shareholder in BetFred's holding company.

http://www.guardian.
co.uk/uk/2012/dec/25
/tory-mp-benefits-ga
mbling-industry?INTC
MP=SRCH

"Keighley Conservative MP Kris Hopkins said it was up to individuals how they spend their own money but added: “They should take responsibility for making sure basics are put on their families’ tables first before feeding gaming machines.”
Exactly! And that is what the vast majority of people do, these machines are only of any use to those who actively look to throw away their money.

"Bradford East MP David Ward (Lib Dem) said figures from his constituency were “staggering” and he was concerned that it seemed to be the people who can least afford to lose money who are gambling it."
So the fault obviously is with the people who use the machines.

"Trade secretary Val Summerscales said there were already more than enough betting shops in the city centre, which were detracting from Bradford’s shopping experience.

She added: “Money being spent in betting shops on those machines is money that could be spent in other shops. Once a retail store closes and becomes a betting shop then it’s gone forever.”

More likely that they would just find other means of wasting it.

Why don't the council install these machines to subsidise the council tax payers?

Albion. wrote:
"Keighley Conservative MP Kris Hopkins said it was up to individuals how they spend their own money but added: “They should take responsibility for making sure basics are put on their families’ tables first before feeding gaming machines.”
Exactly! And that is what the vast majority of people do, these machines are only of any use to those who actively look to throw away their money.

"Bradford East MP David Ward (Lib Dem) said figures from his constituency were “staggering” and he was concerned that it seemed to be the people who can least afford to lose money who are gambling it."
So the fault obviously is with the people who use the machines.

"Trade secretary Val Summerscales said there were already more than enough betting shops in the city centre, which were detracting from Bradford’s shopping experience.

She added: “Money being spent in betting shops on those machines is money that could be spent in other shops. Once a retail store closes and becomes a betting shop then it’s gone forever.”

More likely that they would just find other means of wasting it.

Why don't the council install these machines to subsidise the council tax payers?

I can't understand why the MPs & Chamber of Commerce are so disgusted by this. They are completely legal operations that are operating within the law and are employing people and generating tax.

The photo with the article just highlights the fact that the Betfred shop was empty for years before they moved in.
If they weren't there how would Bradford's 'shopping experience' be any better? It would just be another shop to fill with local artwork.

Having bookies on the same streets as other businesses, retail and so on, drives them away. The Acropolis complained about betting shops surrounding it earlier in the year and itself closed due to lack of passing trade. I wouldn't be surprised if HMV & Jessops just see out their leases then move on.

Actually, when you think of it, if a punter puts £100 into one of these FOBTs, spends 2 hours on the machine and gets £97 back, that means he has had two hours entertainment for just £3. Seems better value than propping up the bar at City Vaults where 2 hours might cost you the price of 4 or 5 pints or £10-12. The problem comes when unskilled punters start chasing their losses and inadvertently make other punters rich. But, that's always been a feature of gambling. As long as the house gets its cut, they don't really care who wins or loses. Maybe they should start using account cards, like a credit card, which can keep tabs on punters losses and shut the door before they get too out of hand?

MP Philip Davies said: “It’s up to people to do with their money as they see fit and the rate of return from these machines is higher than any other form of gambling. No one wants to see people getting addicted but people can sit in front of their computer 24 hours seven days a week and gamble. I’d say it’s better for them to be in a betting shop in a controlled environment where staff are trained to keep an eye for tell-tale signs

I've seen young men under 20 who I know not to have employment put anything up to £50 a time in these machines on a Saturday lunch time when I'm doing my football accumulators and still be in there, or have returned when I get back from football to collect my winnings( not that often an occurence) but they are still there pumping the money in.

I'd say the tell tale signs are either theft or 'dealing' and as such maybe the users need monitoring. In much the same way a 20 year old driving round in a £30k car does.

Clowny wrote:
Having bookies on the same streets as other businesses, retail and so on, drives them away. The Acropolis complained about betting shops surrounding it earlier in the year and itself closed due to lack of passing trade. I wouldn't be surprised if HMV & Jessops just see out their leases then move on.

As both the shops you mention have been involved in liquidation in the last two years, it would be no surprise if they moved, whether or not there were Bookmakers shops all around them.
Market forces tend to dictate what you get.

Well Philip Davies would say that, is it pay back time then?

'so when betfair paid all expenses for your overnight in Paris for rugby wld cup, they expect nothing back? '

Retweeted by Alastair Campbell

Credit, Gambling, Pay-day loans fit in to the capitalist model nicely.

I'm no socialist but this city is on its last breaths with such companies vulturing it.

Albion. wrote:

Clowny wrote:
Having bookies on the same streets as other businesses, retail and so on, drives them away. The Acropolis complained about betting shops surrounding it earlier in the year and itself closed due to lack of passing trade. I wouldn't be surprised if HMV & Jessops just see out their leases then move on.

As both the shops you mention have been involved in liquidation in the last two years, it would be no surprise if they moved, whether or not there were Bookmakers shops all around them.
Market forces tend to dictate what you get.

That's just trying to make excuses ahead of the likely consequences. As it happens with Jessops the restructuring took place almost 3 years ago and is 47% owned by HSBC so as a group it'll now be relatively stable.

It's also worth noting many of the high street retailers that have gone into liquidation then have been saved, have closed Bradford stores yet kept open stores in other cities. The less choice the city offers the more it will decline. Betting shops do not add to the desirability of the area to shop in and actually make it less desirable.

Clowny wrote:
Having bookies on the same streets as other businesses, retail and so on, drives them away. The Acropolis complained about betting shops surrounding it earlier in the year and itself closed due to lack of passing trade. I wouldn't be surprised if HMV & Jessops just see out their leases then move on.

I would not be surprised if all retail shops at that side of Market Street closed. IE All in Market Street and between the Westfield site. This due to the non existent Westfield shopping centre.
Bradford centre shopping is around the Arndale centre and then a second one at the Valley Road retail parks.

I hope these betting shops are paying the full payments in tax to the Council and also to the Government and not like Starbucks etc.

Clowny wrote:

Albion. wrote:

Clowny wrote:
Having bookies on the same streets as other businesses, retail and so on, drives them away. The Acropolis complained about betting shops surrounding it earlier in the year and itself closed due to lack of passing trade. I wouldn't be surprised if HMV & Jessops just see out their leases then move on.

As both the shops you mention have been involved in liquidation in the last two years, it would be no surprise if they moved, whether or not there were Bookmakers shops all around them.
Market forces tend to dictate what you get.

That's just trying to make excuses ahead of the likely consequences. As it happens with Jessops the restructuring took place almost 3 years ago and is 47% owned by HSBC so as a group it'll now be relatively stable.

It's also worth noting many of the high street retailers that have gone into liquidation then have been saved, have closed Bradford stores yet kept open stores in other cities. The less choice the city offers the more it will decline. Betting shops do not add to the desirability of the area to shop in and actually make it less desirable.

As I said "market forces".

Joedavid wrote:
I hope these betting shops are paying the full payments in tax to the Council and also to the Government and not like Starbucks etc.

They can't be as William Hill, Betfred and Ladbrokes according to their websites are registered in Gibraltar.

Albion. wrote:

Clowny wrote:

Albion. wrote:

Clowny wrote:
Having bookies on the same streets as other businesses, retail and so on, drives them away. The Acropolis complained about betting shops surrounding it earlier in the year and itself closed due to lack of passing trade. I wouldn't be surprised if HMV & Jessops just see out their leases then move on.

As both the shops you mention have been involved in liquidation in the last two years, it would be no surprise if they moved, whether or not there were Bookmakers shops all around them.
Market forces tend to dictate what you get.

That's just trying to make excuses ahead of the likely consequences. As it happens with Jessops the restructuring took place almost 3 years ago and is 47% owned by HSBC so as a group it'll now be relatively stable.

It's also worth noting many of the high street retailers that have gone into liquidation then have been saved, have closed Bradford stores yet kept open stores in other cities. The less choice the city offers the more it will decline. Betting shops do not add to the desirability of the area to shop in and actually make it less desirable.

As I said "market forces".

The state of Bradford centre isn't down to market forces alone, far from it. It's been bad decision making, like the compulsory purchase of a large area of successfully trading retail to make way for Westfield.

People in Bradford do shop (the success of the Forster Square retailers proves that) and would buy in Bradford centre if it had the shops, it is a chicken and egg situation, further removing retail units to make them bookies only exacerbates the situation for any future efforts to reverse the decline.

Joedavid wrote:
I hope these betting shops are paying the full payments in tax to the Council and also to the Government and not like Starbucks etc.

http://www.huffingto
npost.co.uk/2012/08/
17/bookmakers-high-s
treets-recession-bet
ting-on-britain_n_17
95090.html

They are certainly paying more than some, it would seem.

Surely that's an industry sponsored report. On that story 78.49% have said they do not want to see an increase in Bookmakers on the high street.

Clowny wrote:

Albion. wrote:

Clowny wrote:

Albion. wrote:

Clowny wrote:
Having bookies on the same streets as other businesses, retail and so on, drives them away. The Acropolis complained about betting shops surrounding it earlier in the year and itself closed due to lack of passing trade. I wouldn't be surprised if HMV & Jessops just see out their leases then move on.

As both the shops you mention have been involved in liquidation in the last two years, it would be no surprise if they moved, whether or not there were Bookmakers shops all around them.
Market forces tend to dictate what you get.

That's just trying to make excuses ahead of the likely consequences. As it happens with Jessops the restructuring took place almost 3 years ago and is 47% owned by HSBC so as a group it'll now be relatively stable.

It's also worth noting many of the high street retailers that have gone into liquidation then have been saved, have closed Bradford stores yet kept open stores in other cities. The less choice the city offers the more it will decline. Betting shops do not add to the desirability of the area to shop in and actually make it less desirable.

As I said "market forces".

The state of Bradford centre isn't down to market forces alone, far from it. It's been bad decision making, like the compulsory purchase of a large area of successfully trading retail to make way for Westfield.

People in Bradford do shop (the success of the Forster Square retailers proves that) and would buy in Bradford centre if it had the shops, it is a chicken and egg situation, further removing retail units to make them bookies only exacerbates the situation for any future efforts to reverse the decline.

The state of Bradford's city centre is not going to significantly improve, as it gradually becomes a third world city of Bazaars and bookies and anything that sells tat.
There is little point in having anything half decent, as there aren't the required number of half decent customers.
Hence my "market forces" comment.
Sorry but that's how I see it and that's how it is (so far).

Clowny wrote:
Surely that's an industry sponsored report. On that story 78.49% have said they do not want to see an increase in Bookmakers on the high street.

I don't particularly want them myself, neither do I ever go inside them but I can understand why they have taken over.

There's plenty of half decent customers but they are shopping in surrounding towns and cities due to a lack of choice. The shoppers that once flocked into Bradford haven't simply vanished off the face of the Earth.

One things for sure you're not going to attract your wealthy shoppers with a down market proposition of bookies, pay day loan shops, pawn brokers and so on.

In 10 years time, the authorities will look back and say 'we should of done something back then' ......
Bookmakers open new shops solely for FOBTs as they are only are allowed 4 per shop, and bookmakers will justify doing so by saying it gives people jobs, so saying giving 4 new jobs for a new shop offset the amount of people blowing a whole weekly/monthly income??? I don't think so, bookmakers are sneaky devious vermin rats!! Rats who couldn't care less how they rake in money, or where people have got it from as long as it ends up in their back pockets!!

Could it possibly be the same people who were reported earlier this month as living in poverty? Needs some consultants to investigate!

The government and local authorities don't mind if kids live in poverty because of gambling. TV is littered with ads and sponsorship, whilst the powers that be try to prevent hard working people having a drink in a pub. It will not end well.

So the MP's are outraged that ordinary people should want to gamble their cash. What will they do about it - pass a law to make it illegal? Ordinary punters are no problem
The MP's should focus their attention on the number of criminals who use this system to gamble large amounts of cash obtained in drug trafficking in a difficult to detect money laundering method.

Typical sensationalism from the T and A. The article could be highly misleading for those who don't understand how these machines work.

Let's look at the facts...
1) £392 million is deposited in the machines
2) The betting shops make £12m profit
3) £12m is around 3% of £392 million. 3% profit is consistent with the house edge for games such as roulette which are played on these machines so these figures appear to stack up.
4) This means £380 million of the £390 million deposited has been paid back to the punters.
5) If you take the £12 million the punters have lost and divide this by the total population of Bradford which is 293,000 you get a figure of just under £41 per person
6) Divide this by 12 months and you can conclude that the average person in Bradford loses around £3.41 per month playing Fixed Odds Betting Terminals

Now I'm not saying that these machines cannot cause serious problems for some people and I accept that the majority of people will not play these machines at all. However this sensationalist journalism needs to be put into perspective.

"Keighley Conservative MP Kris Hopkins said it was up to individuals how they spend their own money but added: “They should take responsibility for making sure basics are put on their families’ tables first before feeding gaming machines.”


How can this %$"£ of a man say this but then support the introduction of 'welfare cards' for the unemployed which restrict what they can spend their money on? I expect quite a considerable amount of this cash is coming from people on benefits, but the betting industry has always been a big supporter of the Tories, hasn't it!
HYPOCRISY IS THE GREATEST LUXURY, RAISE THE DOUBLE STANDARDS!

I do not see how anybody is surprised the very same people allowed the businesses to open with all the gambling machines do they think they are some sort of charity.

Well for once Bradford council was right, Bradford is thriving with new shops opening in the city.
But as we know these are all betting shops as this article states, there are 102 betting shops in Bradford and the surrounding area! I bet that's more than the number of pound shops!

The council let these stores open without the foresight that something like this would happen, they probably thought it would create more jobs; instead it's made the financial situations of thousands of families even worse! Well done Bradford council, we can always count on you to make the district worse!

I blame Blair and Brown. Wasn't it them that wanted all day opening for boozers and super casinos? Trouble is it's all gone pear-shaped hasn't it? The boozers are shutting in droves for lack of punters because the punters are getting cheap booze from the supermarkets and the gambling industry has gone on line and off-shore paying very little tax to the government and leaving the health service to pick up the cost of treating broken-down alcoholic gamblers strewn everywhere. It's a right blooming mess.

Cannot believe how naive our MPs appear to be. How much of this money is illegally obtained or benefit money being squandered ? Was it Mr. Davies who previously worked in a betting shop and has recently been linked to
'questionable' activity related to betting industry ? I used to think that he spoke a lot of sense, buy am losing confidence in him.

My Father was a gambler it wrecks and ruins life , I Dont even put money on the lottery . waste of money. My exe is a gambler as well though. I didn't know it when I married him I never would have had I known

So thats £392M purely on High-stake gaming machines? Not on the roulette tables, Poker, blackjack, small stakes or other more traditional booky activities.

Not sure what safeguards these places have to ensure that they are not helping to launder money, but would be interested to hear from the industry how they ensure that "business" takings aren't just put through these machines to pay 3% tax rather than 20% tax.

Would be interesting to see what the total spend is in Bradford per capita, or any other City for that matter.

Is that BetFred on the corner of the Wool Exchange? What a shame and sad indictment of the state of Bradford if that is on a "prime site".

Viva Bradford Vegas....where the poor live to gamble. Where the council, with it's obvious policy of encouraging gambling has ruined the lovely city of Bradford.

Pound shops galore.
Beggars and homeless numbers increasing.
Unemployment increasing.
Infrastructure investment decreasing.
Rudest youngsters in Yorkshire.
Drug dealing gangs running the show.
Where a £100000 terrace in the Bronx has a £250000 motor parked outside it and the local authority or Police thinks this is fine and an example of progress.
Massive hole in the city centre which begs investment.
Millions lost in revenue because the smart businessmen/councill
ors believe that leaving a shop empty rather then giving the city a boost is smart economics.
A city where the job centre ques run round the block.
A city where insurance prices are going through the roof due to the obvious frauds of a handful of claims companies.
A city with a newspaper which don't have a clue about investigative journalism.

This is Bradford. This is a shame.

Viva Bradford Vegas; a joke of a city run by circus clowns, voted in by the sheeple of the city. Well done people of Bradford; you all deserve a big pat on the back.

Ps last week i walked past a bookies opposite the Brittannia house near the franchised sandwich shop; just take a look at some of the drunks and clearly drugged people hanging around these type of gambling shops. Of course the shop keepers and customers will beg to differ.

Further proof that benefit payments are far too high.

angry bradfordian wrote:
These figures are either extremely shocking or highly dubious. Assuming there are 400,000 people in Bradford who are old enough to enter a betting shop, they'd have to be spending £1,000 each a year. As I don't know anyone who ever goes in these shops there must be people spending thousands a year if the numbers are right. If the MPs are so disgusted about it why aren't they trying to raise some legislation about it? Perhaps Galloway should attend parliament a bit more rather than his other priorities!

Think you may have misinterpreted.

The 400 million 97 per cent of it is people refeeding these machines with their winnings.

Only 12 million actually "lost"

if 400000 gambled (which they dont)it would be about £30 each annually.

Not to take away from a dreadfull situation though

RuggerTyke wrote:
Meanwhile someone who presided over a glut of these opening has been 'honoured'. Woe.

Absolutely.

presided over the fall of the city and on £50000 a year for the priviledge to be given a gong.

and pops up with his best mate sutcliffe as a director at the Bulls now the public have ousted him from power.

No end to the torture and madness of this once proud city.

Reward for failure.A MBE.

Lets stop council money being directed towards any more lost causes in Odsal Stadium.

No doubt the pair of them will be attempting to extract as much as they can from the local taxpayer coffers.

And if that comment re Davies is right just shows Mp"s are still taking money to act as lobbyists for influence in legislation helpfull to their paymasters.
The bet industry in this case.

Took William Wilberforce 38 years to push through his slavery act.

as MP"s paid supported such a disgusting practice.
Half of Liverpool was built on the profits of such despicable behaviour.

Greed still everywhere in the worst times anyone can recall

Prisoner Cell Block A wrote:
MP Philip Davies said: “It’s up to people to do with their money as they see fit and the rate of return from these machines is higher than any other form of gambling. No one wants to see people getting addicted but people can sit in front of their computer 24 hours seven days a week and gamble. I’d say it’s better for them to be in a betting shop in a controlled environment where staff are trained to keep an eye for tell-tale signs I've seen young men under 20 who I know not to have employment put anything up to £50 a time in these machines on a Saturday lunch time when I'm doing my football accumulators and still be in there, or have returned when I get back from football to collect my winnings( not that often an occurence) but they are still there pumping the money in. I'd say the tell tale signs are either theft or 'dealing' and as such maybe the users need monitoring. In much the same way a 20 year old driving round in a £30k car does.

Well said.
Theft must be behind such young people being able to find that much.
Now what are the figures for scrap metal and good metal theft that has filled these youths pockets.
And when you see 20 year olds driving Bentleys and Audis and Porches why on earth are they not seized until they can prove they own them through legitimate earnings.

The city has stacks of them driving round and I notice then every day on the roads.Are the police blind.Or powerless.or frightened to start another paper trail.

Albion. wrote:

Clowny wrote: Having bookies on the same streets as other businesses, retail and so on, drives them away. The Acropolis complained about betting shops surrounding it earlier in the year and itself closed due to lack of passing trade. I wouldn't be surprised if HMV & Jessops just see out their leases then move on.

As both the shops you mention have been involved in liquidation in the last two years, it would be no surprise if they moved, whether or not there were Bookmakers shops all around them. Market forces tend to dictate what you get.

There will be many more like that this coming year.

shopkeepers at the trad area of town for shopping say the effect of City Park and lots enjoying the small amount of decent weather this summer has not reflected in increase turnover for them.

Whatever the council spin masters would have you believe.

Bull as usual from them.

Just visited my parents to see rubbish spilling everywhere as the bins out since saturday for an apparent collection are blown everywhere.

the council line today was emergency only and the poor guy has fielded hundreds of complaint.
The highway authority (refuse section)
have told him that all bins due for collection last sat were collected.
Nonsense as usual.
Right not knowing what the left doing.

madness,wait for all the compensation claims as people seize on the opportunity to claim hit by flying wheelie bins in these winds.

How much must the letters that went out stating saturday collection have cost.

May as well get all the gripes out now as 2013 will see things turn a whole lot worse.

Happy New Year everybody.
Dig in.

Anyone got any old Anderson Shelters for all the homeless.

cockadoodledo wrote:
Well Philip Davies would say that, is it pay back time then? 'so when betfair paid all expenses for your overnight in Paris for rugby wld cup, they expect nothing back? ' Retweeted by Alastair Campbell

Corrupt eh.
report to parliamentary standards commitee someone PLEASE.

Get him behind bars

Joedavid wrote:

Clowny wrote: Having bookies on the same streets as other businesses, retail and so on, drives them away. The Acropolis complained about betting shops surrounding it earlier in the year and itself closed due to lack of passing trade. I wouldn't be surprised if HMV & Jessops just see out their leases then move on.

I would not be surprised if all retail shops at that side of Market Street closed. IE All in Market Street and between the Westfield site. This due to the non existent Westfield shopping centre. Bradford centre shopping is around the Arndale centre and then a second one at the Valley Road retail parks.

Your right and the rest is doomed.

No point in Westfield.

even in the post mid sixties development noone much ventured around to Petergate and the bottom of Leeds road.
to shop.Twilight zone then.

Anyone watch Blade Runner last night.

Bradford in 10 years and its already nearly like it now

Clowny wrote:

Joedavid wrote: I hope these betting shops are paying the full payments in tax to the Council and also to the Government and not like Starbucks etc.

They can't be as William Hill, Betfred and Ladbrokes according to their websites are registered in Gibraltar.

yes all the tax is falling on the people.

and blame for the worlds collapse caused by new labour in cohoot with the banks

this lot are no better.clueless.

osborne said 2 and a half years ago all the lost government jobs would be taken up by the private sector.Laughed then at that sweeping nonsense.
Trillions of company debt,personal debts ,bank debt,goverment debt,international debt (remember Iceland)and he dreamed that statement up.

Clueless,sackless.

The world is in a mess but here in Bradford were sunk.

The Ontario pension Fund has just had a nice little report from me.

Dont touch Westfield and Bradford with a barge pole unless you want to see some very poor pensioners in Ontario in a few years time.

Clowny wrote:

Albion. wrote:

Clowny wrote:

Albion. wrote:

Clowny wrote: Having bookies on the same streets as other businesses, retail and so on, drives them away. The Acropolis complained about betting shops surrounding it earlier in the year and itself closed due to lack of passing trade. I wouldn't be surprised if HMV & Jessops just see out their leases then move on.

As both the shops you mention have been involved in liquidation in the last two years, it would be no surprise if they moved, whether or not there were Bookmakers shops all around them. Market forces tend to dictate what you get.

That's just trying to make excuses ahead of the likely consequences. As it happens with Jessops the restructuring took place almost 3 years ago and is 47% owned by HSBC so as a group it'll now be relatively stable. It's also worth noting many of the high street retailers that have gone into liquidation then have been saved, have closed Bradford stores yet kept open stores in other cities. The less choice the city offers the more it will decline. Betting shops do not add to the desirability of the area to shop in and actually make it less desirable.

As I said "market forces".

The state of Bradford centre isn't down to market forces alone, far from it. It's been bad decision making, like the compulsory purchase of a large area of successfully trading retail to make way for Westfield. People in Bradford do shop (the success of the Forster Square retailers proves that) and would buy in Bradford centre if it had the shops, it is a chicken and egg situation, further removing retail units to make them bookies only exacerbates the situation for any future efforts to reverse the decline.

But I think its gone too far now Clowny.
i usually agree with most of what you say.

people are not coming back whatever happens to the hole is the message i am getting.

The start of the very sharp decline of an already lost confidence by the big retailers in the city was the demolition.

The void filled with scum everywhere that rob cadge beg steal shoplift snatch bags

Plenty of parking wardens
Not many police tackiling this scum

MontyLeMar wrote:
I blame Blair and Brown. Wasn't it them that wanted all day opening for boozers and super casinos? Trouble is it's all gone pear-shaped hasn't it? The boozers are shutting in droves for lack of punters because the punters are getting cheap booze from the supermarkets and the gambling industry has gone on line and off-shore paying very little tax to the government and leaving the health service to pick up the cost of treating broken-down alcoholic gamblers strewn everywhere. It's a right blooming mess.

And dont forget their complete faith and trust in the banking industry with their light touch regulation that led to doomesday.

yes that Neo Liberal bulls**t model really has come back to bite us
Together with the let everyone from the world in to live then they will vote for us and we will never be out of power.

600000 at the stroke of Harriet Harmans pen when the Sheffield whistleblower (who lost his job in consequence)let us in on it.
Because files were piled up in a Sheffield back office with no progress and she was frightened they would have claims under the Human Rights Act for failure to progress within a reasonable time scale these applications.

Were certainly paying for owning threequaters of the worlds land mass in the days when we could say "British Empire" now ar"nt we.

We are now owned by the rest of the world.

Yorkshire Water by 4 foreign banks (ours all went pop)

Electric and gas firms by germans and french

Just what Maggie anticipated I am sure.

your right albion.free market forces

And the collapse of sound economic policy which incorporated a fundamental accounting principle prudence.

Yes Blair and Brown gambled alright

What was said by Hitler.
We may win the war but Germany would win the peace.

economically correct.

The obvious wrote:
Viva Bradford Vegas....where the poor live to gamble. Where the council, with it's obvious policy of encouraging gambling has ruined the lovely city of Bradford. Pound shops galore. Beggars and homeless numbers increasing. Unemployment increasing. Infrastructure investment decreasing. Rudest youngsters in Yorkshire. Drug dealing gangs running the show. Where a £100000 terrace in the Bronx has a £250000 motor parked outside it and the local authority or Police thinks this is fine and an example of progress. Massive hole in the city centre which begs investment. Millions lost in revenue because the smart businessmen/councill ors believe that leaving a shop empty rather then giving the city a boost is smart economics. A city where the job centre ques run round the block. A city where insurance prices are going through the roof due to the obvious frauds of a handful of claims companies. A city with a newspaper which don't have a clue about investigative journalism. This is Bradford. This is a shame. Viva Bradford Vegas; a joke of a city run by circus clowns, voted in by the sheeple of the city. Well done people of Bradford; you all deserve a big pat on the back.

well said

you hit most of it

And serving local politicians at the nerve centre control of a lot of it.

You heard it here.

Corruption
Extortion
Gun Running
Protection racket
Stage managed accident claims(even down to a planned coach full of them that had an itineary planned to crash at the perfect moment so 45 at a time got three grand whiplash comp{with 50 percent going to the organisers after expenses})
Murder
Heroin import by the container full many in the packaging of cloth goods from Pakistan
Colleges run as a front for drug money

You could not make up how far the corrupt of this city have taken it down.

You too have seen the Bentley Continental eh

Progress my ars*

where so far down the pan its unrecoverable

By the way if anyone would like to know how I know all this.

I have friends who are decent asians who have turned their back on new labour too because the party had become full of the corrupt

But dont think the tories are any better if Davies is behaving like that

I've just read that Bradford,Birmingham and London are being set up for the first Sharia Law Zones in UK!...So that would be good news for David Ward MP...No more Gambling here then soon... and i dread to think what the punishment will be to Gamblers?...

GlobalSingh wrote:
I've just read that Bradford,Birmingham and London are being set up for the first Sharia Law Zones in UK!...So that would be good news for David Ward MP...No more Gambling here then soon... and i dread to think what the punishment will be to Gamblers?...

God please spare us

please

alfucham wrote:

The obvious wrote:
Viva Bradford Vegas....where the poor live to gamble. Where the council, with it's obvious policy of encouraging gambling has ruined the lovely city of Bradford. Pound shops galore. Beggars and homeless numbers increasing. Unemployment increasing. Infrastructure investment decreasing. Rudest youngsters in Yorkshire. Drug dealing gangs running the show. Where a £100000 terrace in the Bronx has a £250000 motor parked outside it and the local authority or Police thinks this is fine and an example of progress. Massive hole in the city centre which begs investment. Millions lost in revenue because the smart businessmen/councill ors believe that leaving a shop empty rather then giving the city a boost is smart economics. A city where the job centre ques run round the block. A city where insurance prices are going through the roof due to the obvious frauds of a handful of claims companies. A city with a newspaper which don't have a clue about investigative journalism. This is Bradford. This is a shame. Viva Bradford Vegas; a joke of a city run by circus clowns, voted in by the sheeple of the city. Well done people of Bradford; you all deserve a big pat on the back.

well said

you hit most of it

And serving local politicians at the nerve centre control of a lot of it.

You heard it here.

Corruption
Extortion
Gun Running
Protection racket
Stage managed accident claims(even down to a planned coach full of them that had an itineary planned to crash at the perfect moment so 45 at a time got three grand whiplash comp{with 50 percent going to the organisers after expenses})
Murder
Heroin import by the container full many in the packaging of cloth goods from Pakistan
Colleges run as a front for drug money

You could not make up how far the corrupt of this city have taken it down.

You too have seen the Bentley Continental eh

Progress my ars*

where so far down the pan its unrecoverable

Too right.

And I must point out that it's not just one particular race or area that's involved.

Take a drive through holmewood,Thorpe edge, ravenscliffe, allerton, scholemoor, odsal, Canterbury, Manchester road, manningham plus many many more areas and you will see councils so called poor driving around in new audis/ vw/ Porsches yes...these are the poor ones.
Then just follow em to the job centres where they park round the corner and pretend to be looking for jobs.

I've worked on the front line of benefits, council, housing etc and can advise you that many people dodge the system and many people of all creeds and colours are involved in various crimes.

The authorities are not fit for purpose. Thankfully I do not have to deal with these leeches anymore and if all goes well and I win the lotto I'll be jetting out of here ASAP.

Forgot to mention the part time police stations in Bradford! What a feckin joke.

Ps happy new year! Please can the authorities turn the city around.

after the last bin collection there were notes left on the bins. if people can't read them its not the councils fault, bins were not due to be collected last saturday but next saturday.

johnhem wrote:
after the last bin collection there were notes left on the bins. if people can't read them its not the councils fault, bins were not due to be collected last saturday but next saturday.

Now we know who works for this council.
you are right on this.

The whole street have misinterpreted


So whats one collection in two weeks all about at a time when more rubbish is generated than at any other time of year.

You work on the bins?

get up here on wednesday and clean the entire street please.

And tell your bin men to pick up the bits every week that they let blow everywhere on a weekly basis.

Were sick of doing the job for you.
Its hardly taxing these days wheeling a bin to the back of a truck that picks it up for you.

we even do most of the job for you in prepreperation and wheeling it to the pavement.

Not the bin men's fault...it's the smart morons that are called their management.

Health and safety has gone stupid... Bins have to have wheels on so tat it's easier to place on the machine that grabs them and empties.

The wheelie bins are rubbish, high winds mean they blow into the road and their flimsy lids fly off.

The council and the associated depts are a joke and waste of space. Love to kick em all out.

GlobalSingh wrote:
I've just read that Bradford,Birmingham and London are being set up for the first Sharia Law Zones in UK!...So that would be good news for David Ward MP...No more Gambling here then soon... and i dread to think what the punishment will be to Gamblers?...

Where you read that...the Daily mail?

GlobalSingh wrote:
I've just read that Bradford,Birmingham and London are being set up for the first Sharia Law Zones in UK!...So that would be good news for David Ward MP...No more Gambling here then soon... and i dread to think what the punishment will be to Gamblers?...

Globalsingh you need to lay off the drugs!
Either you're making this bull pooh up to create hatred which is not good as singhs are proud and honourable people...you clearly do not fit within ten miles of that criteria.
Or you've been day dreaming and need to loosen the your head wrap to ensure sufficient airing is given to your head as your comment is designed to create racial tension and I do not believe you are a real globalsingh as no Asian regardless of creed would create annonomisty towards his fellows Asians. You are a disgrace mr Singh.

alfucham wrote:

johnhem wrote:
after the last bin collection there were notes left on the bins. if people can't read them its not the councils fault, bins were not due to be collected last saturday but next saturday.

Now we know who works for this council.
you are right on this.

The whole street have misinterpreted


So whats one collection in two weeks all about at a time when more rubbish is generated than at any other time of year.

You work on the bins?

get up here on wednesday and clean the entire street please.

And tell your bin men to pick up the bits every week that they let blow everywhere on a weekly basis.

Were sick of doing the job for you.
Its hardly taxing these days wheeling a bin to the back of a truck that picks it up for you.

we even do most of the job for you in prepreperation and wheeling it to the pavement.

i take it from your load of bull you can't read then.
no, i don't work for the council, but i can read the notes they leave on my bin. if others can't maybe they should try night school.
i have no doubt half of those bins have gone out because someone elses has gone out, rather than miss they put their own out too, just in case.

alfucham wrote:

Albion. wrote:

Clowny wrote: Having bookies on the same streets as other businesses, retail and so on, drives them away. The Acropolis complained about betting shops surrounding it earlier in the year and itself closed due to lack of passing trade. I wouldn't be surprised if HMV & Jessops just see out their leases then move on.

As both the shops you mention have been involved in liquidation in the last two years, it would be no surprise if they moved, whether or not there were Bookmakers shops all around them. Market forces tend to dictate what you get.

There will be many more like that this coming year.

shopkeepers at the trad area of town for shopping say the effect of City Park and lots enjoying the small amount of decent weather this summer has not reflected in increase turnover for them.

Whatever the council spin masters would have you believe.

Bull as usual from them.

Just visited my parents to see rubbish spilling everywhere as the bins out since saturday for an apparent collection are blown everywhere.

the council line today was emergency only and the poor guy has fielded hundreds of complaint.
The highway authority (refuse section)
have told him that all bins due for collection last sat were collected.
Nonsense as usual.
Right not knowing what the left doing.

madness,wait for all the compensation claims as people seize on the opportunity to claim hit by flying wheelie bins in these winds.

How much must the letters that went out stating saturday collection have cost.

May as well get all the gripes out now as 2013 will see things turn a whole lot worse.

Happy New Year everybody.
Dig in.

Anyone got any old Anderson Shelters for all the homeless.

@alfucham
"Happy New Year everybody. Dig in. Anyone got any old Anderson Shelters for all the homeless."

Happy New Year mate! By the way you can find details on how to construct an Anderson Shelter at the link below. It works, my dad built one, but as you may know, Bradford was never hit by a falling Gerry bomb. Could help protect against this council though.

http://www.google.co
.uk/imgres?imgurl=ht
tp://www.west-dunbar
ton.gov.uk/mww/image
s/Anderson%2520Shelt
er%25202.jpg&imgrefu
rl=http://www.west-d
unbarton.gov.uk/mww/
html/andersonshelter
.html&h=679&w=400&sz
=61&tbnid=vUumj0T64Q
a_OM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=5
3&zoom=1&usg=__rBXqo
iKljYIVKjfgsTlV_4lby
lI=&docid=MsFor_eyRU
zpkM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=8
qTiUIGKE6Wa1AWJhIHoB
Q&sqi=2&ved=0CEIQ9QE
wBA&dur=18248

Would be interesting to know just how much of the £400Million is !!!!BENEFITS MONEY!!!!.

10steve wrote:
Would be interesting to know just how much of the £400Million is !!!!BENEFITS MONEY!!!!.

Or how much is criminal activity funded gambling money.

High stakes is the key phase here guys,ban all hign stakes and have a max £2 stake as in Amusement centres.
This country became a nation of gamblers with the National lottery all those years ago,once a week for a worry back then now we have countless massive lotteries everyday,no shock its got outta hand and unstoppable !!!

It is great to think we still have a freedom of information to know these facts...And what are the Bradford MP's going to do about this ? ... Is it a VOTE WINNER ? Do they really care ? ... Nothing much is said about REAL ISSUES facing Bradford, once the richest and most important Towns in the United Kingdom and possibly the world, because of the Wool.

The obvious wrote:

GlobalSingh wrote:
I've just read that Bradford,Birmingham and London are being set up for the first Sharia Law Zones in UK!...So that would be good news for David Ward MP...No more Gambling here then soon... and i dread to think what the punishment will be to Gamblers?...

Globalsingh you need to lay off the drugs!
Either you're making this bull pooh up to create hatred which is not good as singhs are proud and honourable people...you clearly do not fit within ten miles of that criteria.
Or you've been day dreaming and need to loosen the your head wrap to ensure sufficient airing is given to your head as your comment is designed to create racial tension and I do not believe you are a real globalsingh as no Asian regardless of creed would create annonomisty towards his fellows Asians. You are a disgrace mr Singh.

Fellow Asians? Hahahaha. The Muslims have created animosity towards ALL Asians because of their inability to integrate and accept the culture and laws of this country. Hindus and Sikhs have integrated and accepted - why do the Muslims want everything their own way?

SinnerSaint wrote:

The obvious wrote:

GlobalSingh wrote:
I've just read that Bradford,Birmingham and London are being set up for the first Sharia Law Zones in UK!...So that would be good news for David Ward MP...No more Gambling here then soon... and i dread to think what the punishment will be to Gamblers?...

Globalsingh you need to lay off the drugs!
Either you're making this bull pooh up to create hatred which is not good as singhs are proud and honourable people...you clearly do not fit within ten miles of that criteria.
Or you've been day dreaming and need to loosen the your head wrap to ensure sufficient airing is given to your head as your comment is designed to create racial tension and I do not believe you are a real globalsingh as no Asian regardless of creed would create annonomisty towards his fellows Asians. You are a disgrace mr Singh.

Fellow Asians? Hahahaha. The Muslims have created animosity towards ALL Asians because of their inability to integrate and accept the culture and laws of this country. Hindus and Sikhs have integrated and accepted - why do the Muslims want everything their own way?

100% correct.

SinnerSaint wrote:

The obvious wrote:

GlobalSingh wrote:
I've just read that Bradford,Birmingham and London are being set up for the first Sharia Law Zones in UK!...So that would be good news for David Ward MP...No more Gambling here then soon... and i dread to think what the punishment will be to Gamblers?...

Globalsingh you need to lay off the drugs!
Either you're making this bull pooh up to create hatred which is not good as singhs are proud and honourable people...you clearly do not fit within ten miles of that criteria.
Or you've been day dreaming and need to loosen the your head wrap to ensure sufficient airing is given to your head as your comment is designed to create racial tension and I do not believe you are a real globalsingh as no Asian regardless of creed would create annonomisty towards his fellows Asians. You are a disgrace mr Singh.

Fellow Asians? Hahahaha. The Muslims have created animosity towards ALL Asians because of their inability to integrate and accept the culture and laws of this country. Hindus and Sikhs have integrated and accepted - why do the Muslims want everything their own way?

Wakey wakey Singh.

Good and bad is a race less and creed less quality.

A girl got raped in India, sorry gang raped by six Indian men of non Muslim origin.
This will be integration for you?...the Indians wanna be like the westerners?

Jimmy Saville and co been abusing kids for decades and the white majority in places of power ignored it?
Who the heck in their right mind would wanna integrate with a bunch of paedophiles ....I for one am trying to disengage myself from any further integration with the dumb folk of this country.

Remember your history Singh....when your men folk as Hindus and Sikhs phased away in India; the women folk were also killed to accompany their husband! No thanks I don't wanna integrate with a bunch of morons.

Rememeber how your women in India used to dress modestly?....now your bollywood movies and dance music is full of what would be considered **** and nudity by your older generations! But hey this is progress.

Remeber the Indian Hindu and British forces who buggered the Sikhs into leaving and losing a portion of Punjab district? ....oh yeah welcome to the western way of doing politics where you are promised one thing and two are taken away from you.

Also Singh, check out your brutal history...you guys carry knives and swords/daggers to protect yourself? No you guys are a violent people but I won't stigmatise an entire race like you are doing. Check your history singh.

Talking about terrorists and extremists...how many political leaders have been assassinated by Sikhs in India? Many more then you count to recall.

Sikh means to learn or pursue learning....try it out sometime as it'll improve your understanding of yourself!

Sickness is in your hearts and stop blaming specific communities.

The obvious wrote:

SinnerSaint wrote:

The obvious wrote:

GlobalSingh wrote:
I've just read that Bradford,Birmingham and London are being set up for the first Sharia Law Zones in UK!...So that would be good news for David Ward MP...No more Gambling here then soon... and i dread to think what the punishment will be to Gamblers?...

Globalsingh you need to lay off the drugs!
Either you're making this bull pooh up to create hatred which is not good as singhs are proud and honourable people...you clearly do not fit within ten miles of that criteria.
Or you've been day dreaming and need to loosen the your head wrap to ensure sufficient airing is given to your head as your comment is designed to create racial tension and I do not believe you are a real globalsingh as no Asian regardless of creed would create annonomisty towards his fellows Asians. You are a disgrace mr Singh.

Fellow Asians? Hahahaha. The Muslims have created animosity towards ALL Asians because of their inability to integrate and accept the culture and laws of this country. Hindus and Sikhs have integrated and accepted - why do the Muslims want everything their own way?

Wakey wakey Singh.

Good and bad is a race less and creed less quality.

A girl got raped in India, sorry gang raped by six Indian men of non Muslim origin.
This will be integration for you?...the Indians wanna be like the westerners?

Jimmy Saville and co been abusing kids for decades and the white majority in places of power ignored it?
Who the heck in their right mind would wanna integrate with a bunch of paedophiles ....I for one am trying to disengage myself from any further integration with the dumb folk of this country.

Remember your history Singh....when your men folk as Hindus and Sikhs phased away in India; the women folk were also killed to accompany their husband! No thanks I don't wanna integrate with a bunch of morons.

Rememeber how your women in India used to dress modestly?....now your bollywood movies and dance music is full of what would be considered **** and nudity by your older generations! But hey this is progress.

Remeber the Indian Hindu and British forces who buggered the Sikhs into leaving and losing a portion of Punjab district? ....oh yeah welcome to the western way of doing politics where you are promised one thing and two are taken away from you.

Also Singh, check out your brutal history...you guys carry knives and swords/daggers to protect yourself? No you guys are a violent people but I won't stigmatise an entire race like you are doing. Check your history singh.

Talking about terrorists and extremists...how many political leaders have been assassinated by Sikhs in India? Many more then you count to recall.

Sikh means to learn or pursue learning....try it out sometime as it'll improve your understanding of yourself!

Sickness is in your hearts and stop blaming specific communities.

Ps singh and co I ain't no immigrant....I'm more English then any of you two could ever be!

Stop blaming minorities or races as that's what the apartheid regime of South Africa did and that's exactly what the Jews in Israel are doing and that's exactly what's happening to Sikhs in India.

Blooming heedless sheep the lot of you

so what your saying is this is the establishments new hunting ground that will solve there child supplies funny how they appear to care when social services, government enquires and all concerned are all behind it myself i think its mrs browns boys ffs pmfsl when the establishment is gone the once great britain may have a chance just saying im going back to biting my nails.

The obvious wrote:

SinnerSaint wrote:

The obvious wrote:

GlobalSingh wrote: I've just read that Bradford,Birmingham and London are being set up for the first Sharia Law Zones in UK!...So that would be good news for David Ward MP...No more Gambling here then soon... and i dread to think what the punishment will be to Gamblers?...

Globalsingh you need to lay off the drugs! Either you're making this bull pooh up to create hatred which is not good as singhs are proud and honourable people...you clearly do not fit within ten miles of that criteria. Or you've been day dreaming and need to loosen the your head wrap to ensure sufficient airing is given to your head as your comment is designed to create racial tension and I do not believe you are a real globalsingh as no Asian regardless of creed would create annonomisty towards his fellows Asians. You are a disgrace mr Singh.

Fellow Asians? Hahahaha. The Muslims have created animosity towards ALL Asians because of their inability to integrate and accept the culture and laws of this country. Hindus and Sikhs have integrated and accepted - why do the Muslims want everything their own way?

Wakey wakey Singh. Good and bad is a race less and creed less quality. A girl got raped in India, sorry gang raped by six Indian men of non Muslim origin. This will be integration for you?...the Indians wanna be like the westerners? Jimmy Saville and co been abusing kids for decades and the white majority in places of power ignored it? Who the heck in their right mind would wanna integrate with a bunch of paedophiles ....I for one am trying to disengage myself from any further integration with the dumb folk of this country. Remember your history Singh....when your men folk as Hindus and Sikhs phased away in India; the women folk were also killed to accompany their husband! No thanks I don't wanna integrate with a bunch of morons. Rememeber how your women in India used to dress modestly?....now your bollywood movies and dance music is full of what would be considered **** and nudity by your older generations! But hey this is progress. Remeber the Indian Hindu and British forces who buggered the Sikhs into leaving and losing a portion of Punjab district? ....oh yeah welcome to the western way of doing politics where you are promised one thing and two are taken away from you. Also Singh, check out your brutal history...you guys carry knives and swords/daggers to protect yourself? No you guys are a violent people but I won't stigmatise an entire race like you are doing. Check your history singh. Talking about terrorists and extremists...how many political leaders have been assassinated by Sikhs in India? Many more then you count to recall. Sikh means to learn or pursue learning....try it out sometime as it'll improve your understanding of yourself! Sickness is in your hearts and stop blaming specific communities.

You won't stigmatise a while race but you refuse to intergrate with the "dumb folk of this country" because of the actions of one paedophile and his ring. Surely you're stigmatising all of us based on you're opinion of that one small group then? I must say I've never seen anyone shoot thier own argument in the foot so quickly. Well done Sir/Madam!

The obvious wrote:

SinnerSaint wrote:

The obvious wrote:

GlobalSingh wrote:
I've just read that Bradford,Birmingham and London are being set up for the first Sharia Law Zones in UK!...So that would be good news for David Ward MP...No more Gambling here then soon... and i dread to think what the punishment will be to Gamblers?...

Globalsingh you need to lay off the drugs!
Either you're making this bull pooh up to create hatred which is not good as singhs are proud and honourable people...you clearly do not fit within ten miles of that criteria.
Or you've been day dreaming and need to loosen the your head wrap to ensure sufficient airing is given to your head as your comment is designed to create racial tension and I do not believe you are a real globalsingh as no Asian regardless of creed would create annonomisty towards his fellows Asians. You are a disgrace mr Singh.

Fellow Asians? Hahahaha. The Muslims have created animosity towards ALL Asians because of their inability to integrate and accept the culture and laws of this country. Hindus and Sikhs have integrated and accepted - why do the Muslims want everything their own way?

Wakey wakey Singh.

Good and bad is a race less and creed less quality.

A girl got raped in India, sorry gang raped by six Indian men of non Muslim origin.
This will be integration for you?...the Indians wanna be like the westerners?

Jimmy Saville and co been abusing kids for decades and the white majority in places of power ignored it?
Who the heck in their right mind would wanna integrate with a bunch of paedophiles ....I for one am trying to disengage myself from any further integration with the dumb folk of this country.

Remember your history Singh....when your men folk as Hindus and Sikhs phased away in India; the women folk were also killed to accompany their husband! No thanks I don't wanna integrate with a bunch of morons.

Rememeber how your women in India used to dress modestly?....now your bollywood movies and dance music is full of what would be considered **** and nudity by your older generations! But hey this is progress.

Remeber the Indian Hindu and British forces who buggered the Sikhs into leaving and losing a portion of Punjab district? ....oh yeah welcome to the western way of doing politics where you are promised one thing and two are taken away from you.

Also Singh, check out your brutal history...you guys carry knives and swords/daggers to protect yourself? No you guys are a violent people but I won't stigmatise an entire race like you are doing. Check your history singh.

Talking about terrorists and extremists...how many political leaders have been assassinated by Sikhs in India? Many more then you count to recall.

Sikh means to learn or pursue learning....try it out sometime as it'll improve your understanding of yourself!

Sickness is in your hearts and stop blaming specific communities.

No offence Mr T1t, but we're talking about Bradford here.

Tell me Muslims integrate in Bradford.
Tell me that Muslims aren't running all the drugs in Bradford.
Tell me that Muslims aren't burning each others cars and houses in Bradford.
Tell me that Muslims aren't shooting each other every five minutes in Bradford.

You can't! But I can show you articles from this very paper proving they do.

Show me articles where groups of feral Hindus and Sikhs are running drugs, shooting each other, burning each other's houses and cars, gang fighting in the streets.

You can't!

Now get back in your box d1ckhead.

Lets not even go into what's been happening in Pakistan lately. Killing female charity workers? Nice.

You tell me what would happen to a woman if she was out on her own in Pakistan? I know but I'd like you to tell me.

And killing politicians? Hahaha. Do you REALLY think you've got any leg to stand on there? Bhutto is just the tip of that tawdry iceberg.

If you really want to get into this you're going to lose badly.

Mukhtaran Bibi
Mukhtar Mai
Kainat Somroo
Uzma Ayub
Mehreen from Degwal

All Pakistani gang rape victims. In court, the victims were actually blamed for the actions of their attackers.

Let's also not forget the gang raping of underage girls in this country by groups of Pakistani men.

Let's debate Mr Obvious.

David Ward MP needs to understand that it is ALL to do with MONEY ! and FALSE HOPES nothing else...No Religion or Ethics are going to stop Gamblers!...So why more Betting shops in Bradford ? why not Harrogate ? ...He should engage with the companies because the Gamblers pop into them because they are conveniently there! and robbers are targetting them too,because they know they will have plenty of MONEY!..so NO BETTING SHOPS = NO BETTING!

Money laundering machines , simple as, seen it over and over again. Dealers walking in with £3k-£4k banging it in the machines backing all numbers on roulette bar one and collecting a different £3k from behind the counter with there receipt from the machine, easy clean.

GlobalSingh wrote:
David Ward MP needs to understand that it is ALL to do with MONEY ! and FALSE HOPES nothing else...No Religion or Ethics are going to stop Gamblers!...So why more Betting shops in Bradford ? why not Harrogate ? ...He should engage with the companies because the Gamblers pop into them because they are conveniently there! and robbers are targetting them too,because they know they will have plenty of MONEY!..so NO BETTING SHOPS = NO BETTING!

That was never the case, I still remember the bookies runner, before the shops opened

We should have pride in Bradford and look for ways to make Bradford great again, like it was just over 60 years ago...The image and reputation is universally BAD for only two or three reasons!...yet they are enough for so many people around the world to know just how bad this is, let alone the people you meet in the UK...Bradford MP's need to look beyond their cushy Jobs and vote winning rhetoric and tackle all issues with urgency and conviction...THE CONCERNS OF DECENT BRADFORD CITIZENS NEED TO BE ADDRESSED not just for Gambling but all the other highly toxic issues that are not even mentioned for fear of 'offending' and losing votes and thus making citizens mere 'voting fodder' rather than Humans with feelings and passions.

GlobalSingh wrote:
We should have pride in Bradford and look for ways to make Bradford great again, like it was just over 60 years ago...The image and reputation is universally BAD for only two or three reasons!...yet they are enough for so many people around the world to know just how bad this is, let alone the people you meet in the UK...Bradford MP's need to look beyond their cushy Jobs and vote winning rhetoric and tackle all issues with urgency and conviction...THE CONCERNS OF DECENT BRADFORD CITIZENS NEED TO BE ADDRESSED not just for Gambling but all the other highly toxic issues that are not even mentioned for fear of 'offending' and losing votes and thus making citizens mere 'voting fodder' rather than Humans with feelings and passions.

Well stop blaming the ethnic minorities for all your troubles!

Grow up, chin up and identify yourself as a functioning member of Bradford's DIVERSE community.

The obvious wrote:

GlobalSingh wrote:
We should have pride in Bradford and look for ways to make Bradford great again, like it was just over 60 years ago...The image and reputation is universally BAD for only two or three reasons!...yet they are enough for so many people around the world to know just how bad this is, let alone the people you meet in the UK...Bradford MP's need to look beyond their cushy Jobs and vote winning rhetoric and tackle all issues with urgency and conviction...THE CONCERNS OF DECENT BRADFORD CITIZENS NEED TO BE ADDRESSED not just for Gambling but all the other highly toxic issues that are not even mentioned for fear of 'offending' and losing votes and thus making citizens mere 'voting fodder' rather than Humans with feelings and passions.

Well stop blaming the ethnic minorities for all your troubles!

Grow up, chin up and identify yourself as a functioning member of Bradford's DIVERSE community.

There are two communities in Bradford: everybody else and.....

SinnerSaint wrote:
Mukhtaran Bibi
Mukhtar Mai
Kainat Somroo
Uzma Ayub
Mehreen from Degwal

All Pakistani gang rape victims. In court, the victims were actually blamed for the actions of their attackers.

Let's also not forget the gang raping of underage girls in this country by groups of Pakistani men.

Let's debate Mr Obvious.

Sinner saint, you just don't get it. The crimes happening in Bradford are not all from one particular ethnic minority. You sound like a certain Hitler stereotyping a race/culture to get ticks in your own mental box.

1st of all you keep referring Pakistan....well let me explain summat as frank as I can to a deaf diplomat who needs his eyes opening.

Pakistan is an ally on the war on terror. Bhutto was murdered by the enemies of Pakistan because 99% of the people of Pakistan are moderate and think and act like Bhutto.

The ones doing the killings, rapes, slaughter of charity workers and police officers are UK and US funded terrorist organisations. Yes the UK and US have funded these so called Al Qaeda terrorists and Taliban to be extreme and kill people.

Get this simple fact in to your thick head mr debater...you sound more like a masterdebater!

Currently we, yes we in the UK are allowing our govt to aid Syrian rebels who are killing kids, killing women, destroying the infrastructure, these so called rebels are now in control of a chemical plant in Aleppo. These terrorists backed by the EU are now stating clearly they wish to use these weapons...weapons of mass destruction against the enemy.

Israel is currently undergoing security tests etc to ensure that just in case these rebels or terrosist elements within these rebels decide to fire a missile at the poor Israelis; that Israel is prepared to deal with such incidents quickly and with minimum damage.

Now who is trying to cause war in the middle east...it's us guys in the UK and Europe allowing our govt to arm terrorists that will sooner or later attack Israel.

You keep talking about peace loving Hindus and Sikhs? How many sikhs and hindus have been responsible for assassinating Indian prime ministers...loads of Sikh groups and extremist Hindu groups are banned as they want independence from India...the India that was created by the British for the Hindus at the expense of the Sikhs and Muslims.

Little historical fact for you...during this time of separation the British, the US supplied weapons to the Hindus so they could oppress the the peace loving Sikhs in Punjab, oppress the peace loving Muslims of Kashmir, oppress the peace loving people of Bengal.

During this separation and creation of Pakistan and India; all sides killed each other as they were encouraged to do so by the civilised powers of the US and UK.

Look at the recent gang rape on India...some of the rapists were young and from wealthy families.

Look at the 90% of Indians, who live in poverty in India. Look at the slums in India and you will see them full of Muslims? Look at the Punjab district and you will see Sikhs fighting bitter battles with Hindus and other cultures to make their land pure.

Finally, have a look in London, yes in England,you will see many Sikh and Hindu families who bring over illegal immigrants and hide them in their converted garages...yes twenty to fifty people per garage.

Sir, you need to stop stigmatising and acting like a mr Powell/Griffin/Hitle
r....stick your head out of your anus and get your facts balanced. Do not just select the stats which benefit your bull pooh, but look at all the facts rather then trying to rationalise your racist thoughts by using poorly selected facts.

Also you racists whine and moan about Asians and foreigners in Bradford...for your information the vast majority are law abiding, tax paying citizens who hold decent core values that keep their communities together. Take a look at our white communities, yes some are getting along fine but you will see that vast majority do not know who their daddy is!

You talk about drug dealers being Asians....well they are also white, black and and from every socio economic "class" and from every race.

The biggest drug dealer, historically proven is white Britain....do you recall the opiate wars with China, he brutal take over of Hong Kong...nah you guys only research google and utube via edl bull pooh sights.

Wake up, chin up and stop blaming each other as the more you blame with blind and misleading facts the more you seem like a SS or Stalin inspired corrupt individual who wishes to blame minorities for the problems you cannot deal with.

Also look at the police force, tons of Asians working hard to maintain law and order.

Look at the social workers, many Asians trying o maintain good working families.

Now take a look at your racist self...you may not know it but you have racist and I would say fascist tendencies in your thoughts and the way you speile your bull sh1t.

@sinnersaint and globalsingh. Stop being utter udders and get your facts and perspectives correct. May help if you removed your heads from each others buttocks.

You guys call yourself humans...I call you helpers of the Antichrist causing trouble amongst peace loving humans. Go crawl back under each others anus's and kindly stay there till you learn to see sense and understand history.

End of story you idiots and sad excuses for humans. Nothing but fodder

Gambling is a scourge...it destroys people and families, like alcohol but the Government wants to make money from both!.. So either they should act and do something about this or not make statements to gain popularity for votes...Bradford needs a good image but unless drastic policies are taken by a political party to curb or stop all this madness it will get worse because the UK is SOFT ON CRIME & PUNISHMENT when all that is needed are DETERENTS and RIGID BORDER CONTROLS...UKIP is the only hope now, otherwise we lose the UK to anarchy,exactly as the great British Statesman Enoch Powell warned us over 40 years ago.

The obvious wrote:

SinnerSaint wrote:
Mukhtaran Bibi
Mukhtar Mai
Kainat Somroo
Uzma Ayub
Mehreen from Degwal

All Pakistani gang rape victims. In court, the victims were actually blamed for the actions of their attackers.

Let's also not forget the gang raping of underage girls in this country by groups of Pakistani men.

Let's debate Mr Obvious.

Sinner saint, you just don't get it. The crimes happening in Bradford are not all from one particular ethnic minority. You sound like a certain Hitler stereotyping a race/culture to get ticks in your own mental box.

1st of all you keep referring Pakistan....well let me explain summat as frank as I can to a deaf diplomat who needs his eyes opening.

Pakistan is an ally on the war on terror. Bhutto was murdered by the enemies of Pakistan because 99% of the people of Pakistan are moderate and think and act like Bhutto.

The ones doing the killings, rapes, slaughter of charity workers and police officers are UK and US funded terrorist organisations. Yes the UK and US have funded these so called Al Qaeda terrorists and Taliban to be extreme and kill people.

Get this simple fact in to your thick head mr debater...you sound more like a masterdebater!

Currently we, yes we in the UK are allowing our govt to aid Syrian rebels who are killing kids, killing women, destroying the infrastructure, these so called rebels are now in control of a chemical plant in Aleppo. These terrorists backed by the EU are now stating clearly they wish to use these weapons...weapons of mass destruction against the enemy.

Israel is currently undergoing security tests etc to ensure that just in case these rebels or terrosist elements within these rebels decide to fire a missile at the poor Israelis; that Israel is prepared to deal with such incidents quickly and with minimum damage.

Now who is trying to cause war in the middle east...it's us guys in the UK and Europe allowing our govt to arm terrorists that will sooner or later attack Israel.

You keep talking about peace loving Hindus and Sikhs? How many sikhs and hindus have been responsible for assassinating Indian prime ministers...loads of Sikh groups and extremist Hindu groups are banned as they want independence from India...the India that was created by the British for the Hindus at the expense of the Sikhs and Muslims.

Little historical fact for you...during this time of separation the British, the US supplied weapons to the Hindus so they could oppress the the peace loving Sikhs in Punjab, oppress the peace loving Muslims of Kashmir, oppress the peace loving people of Bengal.

During this separation and creation of Pakistan and India; all sides killed each other as they were encouraged to do so by the civilised powers of the US and UK.

Look at the recent gang rape on India...some of the rapists were young and from wealthy families.

Look at the 90% of Indians, who live in poverty in India. Look at the slums in India and you will see them full of Muslims? Look at the Punjab district and you will see Sikhs fighting bitter battles with Hindus and other cultures to make their land pure.

Finally, have a look in London, yes in England,you will see many Sikh and Hindu families who bring over illegal immigrants and hide them in their converted garages...yes twenty to fifty people per garage.

Sir, you need to stop stigmatising and acting like a mr Powell/Griffin/Hitle

r....stick your head out of your anus and get your facts balanced. Do not just select the stats which benefit your bull pooh, but look at all the facts rather then trying to rationalise your racist thoughts by using poorly selected facts.

Also you racists whine and moan about Asians and foreigners in Bradford...for your information the vast majority are law abiding, tax paying citizens who hold decent core values that keep their communities together. Take a look at our white communities, yes some are getting along fine but you will see that vast majority do not know who their daddy is!

You talk about drug dealers being Asians....well they are also white, black and and from every socio economic "class" and from every race.

The biggest drug dealer, historically proven is white Britain....do you recall the opiate wars with China, he brutal take over of Hong Kong...nah you guys only research google and utube via edl bull pooh sights.

Wake up, chin up and stop blaming each other as the more you blame with blind and misleading facts the more you seem like a SS or Stalin inspired corrupt individual who wishes to blame minorities for the problems you cannot deal with.

Also look at the police force, tons of Asians working hard to maintain law and order.

Look at the social workers, many Asians trying o maintain good working families.

Now take a look at your racist self...you may not know it but you have racist and I would say fascist tendencies in your thoughts and the way you speile your bull sh1t.

Idiot

SinnerSaint wrote:
Mukhtaran Bibi
Mukhtar Mai
Kainat Somroo
Uzma Ayub
Mehreen from Degwal

All Pakistani gang rape victims. In court, the victims were actually blamed for the actions of their attackers.

Let's also not forget the gang raping of underage girls in this country by groups of Pakistani men.

Let's debate Mr Obvious.

Don't confuse them with facts, they much prefer their own multicultural garbage.

Shelfrhino wrote:

SinnerSaint wrote:
Mukhtaran Bibi
Mukhtar Mai
Kainat Somroo
Uzma Ayub
Mehreen from Degwal

All Pakistani gang rape victims. In court, the victims were actually blamed for the actions of their attackers.

Let's also not forget the gang raping of underage girls in this country by groups of Pakistani men.

Let's debate Mr Obvious.

Don't confuse them with facts, they much prefer their own multicultural garbage.

One little fact for shelfrhino aka waste of an egg and sperm.

I sir am English. Man born on the land to parents born on this land. I have served my country loyally and proud to be English.

You sir fall under a Caucasion. The legal definition of Caucasion goes like this; someone who immigrated from the Caucasus mountains of the eastern Europe.

Now eff off back you illegal immigrant and stop blaming ethnics you dumb excuse for a human.

Wakey wakey rhino...stick your horn out and see that you too are an ethnic but try to blend in by attacking other ethnics. Hitler was a tw@t and would you Adam and eve it that he had Jewishness in his blood? Yes he did and do you know what he did to blend in and blame the Jews? He killed millions of them because hitler was dumb and blind to history. You are a disgrace and no different to hitler. Get out of my country you fascist pig. Many good men and women died to keep these islands free from the likes of your types of nazi ideals. Now hop it and learn your history.

Hiding behind a desk and being racist was the job of the SS and gestapo...you are doing exactly the same.

You have no idea how many Asians,Muslims,Sikhs
,Hindus died for our freedoms during world war one and world war two. All died to keep England and the empire free from racist nazi ideals.

You pathetic little men make me sick. Shame on you all

The obvious wrote:

Shelfrhino wrote:

SinnerSaint wrote:
Mukhtaran Bibi
Mukhtar Mai
Kainat Somroo
Uzma Ayub
Mehreen from Degwal

All Pakistani gang rape victims. In court, the victims were actually blamed for the actions of their attackers.

Let's also not forget the gang raping of underage girls in this country by groups of Pakistani men.

Let's debate Mr Obvious.

Don't confuse them with facts, they much prefer their own multicultural garbage.

One little fact for shelfrhino aka waste of an egg and sperm.

I sir am English. Man born on the land to parents born on this land. I have served my country loyally and proud to be English.

You sir fall under a Caucasion. The legal definition of Caucasion goes like this; someone who immigrated from the Caucasus mountains of the eastern Europe.

Now eff off back you illegal immigrant and stop blaming ethnics you dumb excuse for a human.

Wakey wakey rhino...stick your horn out and see that you too are an ethnic but try to blend in by attacking other ethnics. Hitler was a tw@t and would you Adam and eve it that he had Jewishness in his blood? Yes he did and do you know what he did to blend in and blame the Jews? He killed millions of them because hitler was dumb and blind to history. You are a disgrace and no different to hitler. Get out of my country you fascist pig. Many good men and women died to keep these islands free from the likes of your types of nazi ideals. Now hop it and learn your history.

Hiding behind a desk and being racist was the job of the SS and gestapo...you are doing exactly the same.

You have no idea how many Asians,Muslims,Sikhs

,Hindus died for our freedoms during world war one and world war two. All died to keep England and the empire free from racist nazi ideals.

You pathetic little men make me sick. Shame on you all

Wow.
I would like you more as soap.

The obvious wrote:

SinnerSaint wrote:
Mukhtaran Bibi
Mukhtar Mai
Kainat Somroo
Uzma Ayub
Mehreen from Degwal

All Pakistani gang rape victims. In court, the victims were actually blamed for the actions of their attackers.

Let's also not forget the gang raping of underage girls in this country by groups of Pakistani men.

Let's debate Mr Obvious.

Sinner saint, you just don't get it. The crimes happening in Bradford are not all from one particular ethnic minority. You sound like a certain Hitler stereotyping a race/culture to get ticks in your own mental box.

1st of all you keep referring Pakistan....well let me explain summat as frank as I can to a deaf diplomat who needs his eyes opening.

Pakistan is an ally on the war on terror. Bhutto was murdered by the enemies of Pakistan because 99% of the people of Pakistan are moderate and think and act like Bhutto.

The ones doing the killings, rapes, slaughter of charity workers and police officers are UK and US funded terrorist organisations. Yes the UK and US have funded these so called Al Qaeda terrorists and Taliban to be extreme and kill people.

Get this simple fact in to your thick head mr debater...you sound more like a masterdebater!

Currently we, yes we in the UK are allowing our govt to aid Syrian rebels who are killing kids, killing women, destroying the infrastructure, these so called rebels are now in control of a chemical plant in Aleppo. These terrorists backed by the EU are now stating clearly they wish to use these weapons...weapons of mass destruction against the enemy.

Israel is currently undergoing security tests etc to ensure that just in case these rebels or terrosist elements within these rebels decide to fire a missile at the poor Israelis; that Israel is prepared to deal with such incidents quickly and with minimum damage.

Now who is trying to cause war in the middle east...it's us guys in the UK and Europe allowing our govt to arm terrorists that will sooner or later attack Israel.

You keep talking about peace loving Hindus and Sikhs? How many sikhs and hindus have been responsible for assassinating Indian prime ministers...loads of Sikh groups and extremist Hindu groups are banned as they want independence from India...the India that was created by the British for the Hindus at the expense of the Sikhs and Muslims.

Little historical fact for you...during this time of separation the British, the US supplied weapons to the Hindus so they could oppress the the peace loving Sikhs in Punjab, oppress the peace loving Muslims of Kashmir, oppress the peace loving people of Bengal.

During this separation and creation of Pakistan and India; all sides killed each other as they were encouraged to do so by the civilised powers of the US and UK.

Look at the recent gang rape on India...some of the rapists were young and from wealthy families.

Look at the 90% of Indians, who live in poverty in India. Look at the slums in India and you will see them full of Muslims? Look at the Punjab district and you will see Sikhs fighting bitter battles with Hindus and other cultures to make their land pure.

Finally, have a look in London, yes in England,you will see many Sikh and Hindu families who bring over illegal immigrants and hide them in their converted garages...yes twenty to fifty people per garage.

Sir, you need to stop stigmatising and acting like a mr Powell/Griffin/Hitle

r....stick your head out of your anus and get your facts balanced. Do not just select the stats which benefit your bull pooh, but look at all the facts rather then trying to rationalise your racist thoughts by using poorly selected facts.

Also you racists whine and moan about Asians and foreigners in Bradford...for your information the vast majority are law abiding, tax paying citizens who hold decent core values that keep their communities together. Take a look at our white communities, yes some are getting along fine but you will see that vast majority do not know who their daddy is!

You talk about drug dealers being Asians....well they are also white, black and and from every socio economic "class" and from every race.

The biggest drug dealer, historically proven is white Britain....do you recall the opiate wars with China, he brutal take over of Hong Kong...nah you guys only research google and utube via edl bull pooh sights.

Wake up, chin up and stop blaming each other as the more you blame with blind and misleading facts the more you seem like a SS or Stalin inspired corrupt individual who wishes to blame minorities for the problems you cannot deal with.

Also look at the police force, tons of Asians working hard to maintain law and order.

Look at the social workers, many Asians trying o maintain good working families.

Now take a look at your racist self...you may not know it but you have racist and I would say fascist tendencies in your thoughts and the way you speile your bull sh1t.

Hilarious! I wouldn't have expected any less from you - really I wouldn't. It's the typical completely skewed outlook that says certain people can do absolutely no wrong.

And yes, you have educated me now - I understand that Pakistan is Utopia, it's the greatest country in the world, 99% moderate LOL!! Of course stories like the shooting of female charity workers, teachers and the young Malala Yousafzai are just propaganda created by the anti-Islam media to add fuel to the fire of "ignorant racists" like myself.

You're taking my comment completely out of context and disregarding your own earlier comments to which I was replying. That's what people do who know they don't have any chance of winning a debate. I'm still waiting for the details I asked you for at the start of this because I can back up my comments with fact, you on the other hand can't.

Google "drug dealer Bradford" and look at the names. Look at the images LOL!!

Google "gun crime jail Bradford".

You're in total denial, you delusional pr1ck.

I rest my case.

You blithering dumb excuse for a life. I am saying that crime and criminal behaviour is evident in all communities and cultures.

In your eyes the "white" man doesn't do any crime in Bradford or anywhere....you just blame Asians for all the problems.

You are nothing but a hitler loving griffin suckling tw@t and as such need to leave this land which belongs to those who love freedom and equality.

Your stats are stupid and selective....you selected to leave out your white twisted mate the crossbow killer, the Yorkshire ripper, the fools who robbed and gunned down that Asian who pursued white armed robbers on lumb lane. You leave out your admiration for sicko Saville,glitter and co.

You are not fit to be called a human. You are the definition of a sheeple....but your one with sh!t for brains and your head is up hitlers anus as you love the stench of realism bull pooh.

SinnerSaint wrote:
Google "drug dealer Bradford" and look at the names. Look at the images LOL!!

Google "gun crime jail Bradford".

You're in total denial, you delusional pr1ck.

I rest my case.

We won the war against fascists but some dogs like you managed to survive...I would love to see what Churchill would do to you....he would have you shot at dawn or walk the plank for treason.

Wake or die with your head up jimmy savilles anus. Twisted people like you are not fit to be called human ....you are still evolving form a turd to a maggot

I can see that being presented with irrefutable evidence that the large majority of drug and gun crime in Bradford is perpetrated by Muslims of Pakistani origin is very upsetting for you.

Obviously being of the opinion that Muslims can do no wrong all these years, it has come as a bit of a shock to you petal. It's best if you try to accept the facts as best you can and try to move on with your life.

I'm glad that I was able to help you overcome your delusions and enable you to see the wood from the trees.

Just googled "drug dealer Bradford" again. LOL LOL absolutely howling LOL at the images!

Sinnersaint; grow up...oh you never will as bums like you are mentally retarded enough to join the ranks of the fascists. Google fascist...infact save electricity and just look in the mirror.

Opinions only hurt if you value the others opinion. You're opinions are those of fascists...chow

My dear intellectually challenged ars e wipe, these are not my opinions. If you google Bradford drug dealer and it returns loads of hits of stories of Pakistani people who have been convicted of dealing or importing drugs as well as some pretty impressive mugshots LOL how is that anything to do with me?

The obvious wrote:
Sinnersaint; grow up...oh you never will as bums like you are mentally retarded enough to join the ranks of the fascists. Google fascist...infact save electricity and just look in the mirror.

Opinions only hurt if you value the others opinion. You're opinions are those of fascists...chow

Shouldn't you be grooming somewhere Matey?

True Bradfordians know whats happened to our once peacefull and happy city.

What annoys me Al is their community's complete whitewashing of the fact that drugs and gun crime are a problem within it. A simple Google demonstrates where the majority of the perpetrators originate from yet the so called community leaders just deny it rather than face the issue and try to do something about it.

If the community leaders refuse to tackle the problems, they can only get worse.... and we're already seeing this. But can we really expect the community leaders to take any action when one of them (a Bradford Councillor) has several sons in jail at the moment for various firearms and violence offences and has himself recently been arrested?

alfucham wrote:
True Bradfordians know whats happened to our once peacefull and happy city.

Amen to that.

Yet another shooting in Girlington last night Mr Obvious.

I've just realised for someone who uses the moniker "Obvious" you've absolutely no idea what it means!! LOL.

You should change it to Ostrich as you seem to have your head buried deep in the sand most of the time.

Ostrich, check out the article "Bradford Drugs Gang gets 24 years in jail". I think it would be educational for you.

#intotaldenialyoupri
ck