Bradford Bulls: Kopczak wrangle leaves Cummins’ hands tied (From Bradford Telegraph and Argus)

No surprise that Sod Hall is taking its Time over this contracts wrangle, but however they decide it, they will still be wrong and still upset all parties concerned, The sounds of incompetence seems to be resonating round the RFL as usual

Yet with the legal wrangle far from resolved, Cummins can only wait to discover whether he can offer new deals to a number of other out-of-contract players such as Shaun Ainscough, Jarrod Sammut and James Donaldson

I don't see the relevance of the above - Kopout is no longer under contrtact to the Bulls, so no longer in any budget???
so why is the future of others reliant on the ruling?

Agree Steampig - Koppy's wages would have been accounted for anyway as he was contracted for 2013. So in my opinion I can't see what relevence this would have on resigning Samut, Donno, Addy, Nas etc???

If Koppy goes to Hudds, which I suuspect will be the outcome, why does this stop FC resigning these guys, or bringing in at least one new prop til decision is finalized.

Clearly Koppy don't want to be Bulls. Would be nice if we got a bit of compo though.

The 'Kopout Craig' situation makes me angry. The kid screwed us at the end of last season and now looks to be screwing our recruitment plans going forward. Well, my thoughts are screw him, he's gone, resigned, not longer wanted to be a Bull! Don't let this individual get in the way of signing players who WANT to be with the Bulls.Use his salary to bring in new props who wants to play for the Club - we'll be better off that way in my opinion.

Sheffieldbull wrote:
The 'Kopout Craig' situation makes me angry. The kid screwed us at the end of last season and now looks to be screwing our recruitment plans going forward. Well, my thoughts are screw him, he's gone, resigned, not longer wanted to be a Bull! Don't let this individual get in the way of signing players who WANT to be with the Bulls.Use his salary to bring in new props who wants to play for the Club - we'll be better off that way in my opinion.

Suprised at your views? The lads that are awaiting new contracts are already existing players so how can this issue be holding up anything. Surely we are now lighter on the wage structure after Burgess, hargreaves, Sykes, BJ etc left and we have only so far signed a loanee. Dont tell me we are still short on our feet for some cash.

Short on news again and money???
Agree Kopczak situation got nothing to do with other signings as he was not a big earner.Add up all the money paid to the players who have left!! It is time to put this to bed and move on, the player does not want to play for Bulls .Week by Week it is becomming obvious we are not being told the truth by the new regime, Casley and Hood still involved??

Yet with the legal wrangle far from resolved, Cummins can only wait to discover whether he can offer new deals to a number of other out-of-contract players such as Shaun Ainscough, Jarrod Sammut and James Donaldson
It`s mystifying, does Kopout`s salary amount cover those three players total salaries!!!! If so get rid quick he`s on too much.
He obviously don`t want to be at the Bulls so let go even if the RL say he is still registered with us.
I for one if it was a choice between those three and him would sooner have those three than him even if he had not done the dirty, he`s not that good IMHO.

Of course it makes a difference to his recruitment. Which planet are you on? If sod hall decide he is still a Bradford player then his wage will be in next year's budget. That would make a big difference to who he can sign. All the players you have mentioned are all out of contract and if Kopjack isnt judged to be out player then a prop would be the priority. So it does make a big difference. As for the Hood-Caisley comments: what planet are you on?

bbibby wrote:
Short on news again and money???
Agree Kopczak situation got nothing to do with other signings as he was not a big earner.Add up all the money paid to the players who have left!! It is time to put this to bed and move on, the player does not want to play for Bulls .Week by Week it is becomming obvious we are not being told the truth by the new regime, Casley and Hood still involved??

You are right, if those who are in the know!!!!! are to be believed the likes of Elima, Hargreaves and Sykes were on good money add Jeffries into the equation even without Burgess and Pryce we should have money to spare if we are spending up to the cap as promised.

Was Koppy contracted until the end of 2013? Did he break his contract by not playing?Would not want him back now if he doesnot want to play for us
I agree RFL dragging their feet.
.

bbibby wrote:
Short on news again and money???
Agree Kopczak situation got nothing to do with other signings as he was not a big earner.Add up all the money paid to the players who have left!! It is time to put this to bed and move on, the player does not want to play for Bulls .Week by Week it is becomming obvious we are not being told the truth by the new regime, Casley and Hood still involved??

Get a grip of yourself !

Koppy has shown his true colours imo jumped ship with a weak excuse to earn better money at Huddersfield.

We want compo not his services Franny is having to play the victim to give us better chances of this. The case is stronger & pay potenial greater if we can show how this has hampered us.

Koppy was still under contract to the Bulls & he should have had no right to sign for another club also Huddersfield were asked by the RFL like all other clubs not to approach Bradfurd players during the admin process they agreed & then approached Koppy.

Huddersfield have a poor fan base & are a poor club they do little for the game just another case of big money backer. Their season tickets are £110 they sell around 2000 yet they can sign who they like with big money offers, it stinks.

o dear you have your rose tinted glasses on again. Kopczak contract was nor with OK Bulls got it.
OK Bulls did not want to take on the old Debts but want compo for a player who decided under Employment Law not to have his contract transferred. Sound like double standards myself . He must have good reason to leave more to this than we will ever be told.

I hope Kopczak signs for us. He is only a young lad who was badly advised by his agent. If he goes elsewhere then we need to sign another prop INSTEAD of wingers etc.Thats why its having a knock on effect on recruitment.

Once agian we're waiting for the RFL to make a decision.... Dont hold your breath though

bbibby wrote:
o dear you have your rose tinted glasses on again. Kopczak contract was nor with OK Bulls got it.
OK Bulls did not want to take on the old Debts but want compo for a player who decided under Employment Law not to have his contract transferred. Sound like double standards myself . He must have good reason to leave more to this than we will ever be told.

You have no idea what you are talking about, simple as that. Complete knackers.

Reading Bullette wrote:
Of course it makes a difference to his recruitment. Which planet are you on? If sod hall decide he is still a Bradford player then his wage will be in next year's budget. That would make a big difference to who he can sign. All the players you have mentioned are all out of contract and if Kopjack isnt judged to be out player then a prop would be the priority. So it does make a big difference. As for the Hood-Caisley comments: what planet are you on?

Kopout refused to have his CONTRACT tupe'd over, thus now he has NO CONTRACT, not with Bulls, Giants - ANYONE
Even if the RFL deny him terminating his contract, he is in breach for refusing to play at Cats

This was known to OK & FC prior to them taking over....

How does that effect the budget????? WE DO NO HAVE TO PAY HIM IF we do not want him...... whatever the RFL rule

Reading Bullette wrote:
Of course it makes a difference to his recruitment. Which planet are you on? If sod hall decide he is still a Bradford player then his wage will be in next year's budget. That would make a big difference to who he can sign. All the players you have mentioned are all out of contract and if Kopjack isnt judged to be out player then a prop would be the priority. So it does make a big difference. As for the Hood-Caisley comments: what planet are you on?

Couldn't have put it better.

Logic outweighs emotion.

He (CK) has given us an unwanted extra dimension to the saga, at the wrong time in the re building plans.

It would be doubtful our current players would want him back after the disloyal way the affair was conducted. And it would be the worst scenario if we had to continue with his registration and contract whilst he wasn't playing for the club.

Therefore you can see the ultimate dilemma of paying an extra wage on a budget that is pretty tight?

If the situation is resolved & Craig remains a Bradford player & we can offer him a better salary with the others leaving then we should do it. He is a good player & if he can reslove any dressing room differences then we will have another decent prop in the squad .I thinck FC wants hime too that is one of the reasons I believe why we are "hanging on" re finalisation of other contracts

raisemeup wrote:

Reading Bullette wrote:
Of course it makes a difference to his recruitment. Which planet are you on? If sod hall decide he is still a Bradford player then his wage will be in next year's budget. That would make a big difference to who he can sign. All the players you have mentioned are all out of contract and if Kopjack isnt judged to be out player then a prop would be the priority. So it does make a big difference. As for the Hood-Caisley comments: what planet are you on?

Couldn't have put it better.

Logic outweighs emotion.

He (CK) has given us an unwanted extra dimension to the saga, at the wrong time in the re building plans.

It would be doubtful our current players would want him back after the disloyal way the affair was conducted. And it would be the worst scenario if we had to continue with his registration and contract whilst he wasn't playing for the club.

Therefore you can see the ultimate dilemma of paying an extra wage on a budget that is pretty tight?

raise, I don't see it the way you do. I understand that CK chose not to have his contract transferred under TUPE rules and as a result refused continued employment with OK Bulls - resulting in his refusal to play against the Cats'. That was his prerogative as I understand. He effectively resigned whether on the advise of his agent (spits) coupled with any 'tapping up' by Club or Clubs unnamed. From what i've read on the RFL site, there was a 'Gentleman's' agreement between the Clubs not to 'court' Bradford's contracted players until the Bulls future was clarified. Therefore the RFL has to decide what, if any, sanction, to impose on any Club that has been found to have flown in the face of that agreement. It maybe be that Franny wants this kid back - thats his call but I cannot see that the Bulls would need to 'hold' his registration and pay him without playing him, if you get my point. I understand there was a substantial falling out with CK and his fellow team mates about the way he (CK) handled the situation and it would risk team spirit if he returned without 'building bridges' with his team mates, the Club and the Fans, in my opinion.

First Koppy appears to have been informed by his agent what he can do in regard to signing for another club

May be the agent as got it wrong big style and he is trying to resolve the situation amicabley but what ever it does not help the club

Koppy appears not wanting to play for the club anymore so let him go dont let this be another harris saga

Let FC put this money to good use asap so come on RFL once again you have had all the information provided and you still can not make a clear call perhapse it time there was a clear out at the RFL and bring some new blood in there

Is mr khan skint already! With only 19 players on the books he has no money to find another 6! Pathetic.
Koppy wasn't on a big wage, and with Sykes, bj, elima, Hargreaves, pryce, burgess, sibbit...oh and ainscoigh
all leaving mr cummins is moaning that they can't budget for a new player because of Kopczak's wage
Me smells BIG problems at Bradford bulls next season. Think cummins has embarassed himself with this statement.

Bullbreath wrote:
Is mr khan skint already! With only 19 players on the books he has no money to find another 6! Pathetic.
Koppy wasn't on a big wage, and with Sykes, bj, elima, Hargreaves, pryce, burgess, sibbit...oh and ainscoigh
all leaving mr cummins is moaning that they can't budget for a new player because of Kopczak's wage
Me smells BIG problems at Bradford bulls next season. Think cummins has embarassed himself with this statement.

Oh and not to forget crookes, alex ball and all the others that have left odsal. Christ bulls must be in serious financial difficulty. Cummins has made himself look like a right tool!!!

Can not see why it matters what the RFL decide. He moved under TUPE regulations, very straight forward contract law. If RFL go against him he will go to court and win. They can try withhold his registration and then he would put a claim against them and OK Bulls for restraint of trade and would get a pay out, might take years but it would happen. It all depends on whether he is willing to sit out the two or three seasons that it would take to go through the courts and to the EU courts, eg Bosman ruling in football, it took him years to do it but he got all his lost wages back from his club and his FA.

They will be looking for a compromise where there is some give from Giants to get him for next year.

The signing last week took two weeks to go through. Can anyone say for certainty that we don't also have a bunch of other contracts on the table with other players waiting for them to go through?
Just because there isn't a signing every day doesn't mean we are skint. It takes time and a lot of talking to get things done. Just wait and see would be my advice.
Nobody on here really knows the truth of what is going on behind the scenes - and that goes for me too!

Prycey wrote:
The signing last week took two weeks to go through. Can anyone say for certainty that we don't also have a bunch of other contracts on the table with other players waiting for them to go through?
Just because there isn't a signing every day doesn't mean we are skint. It takes time and a lot of talking to get things done. Just wait and see would be my advice.
Nobody on here really knows the truth of what is going on behind the scenes - and that goes for me too!

I agree with you Pricey, but I would not want Kopout back now as far as I am concerned he has burnt his bridges, just let him go.

This don’t ring right at all –

1.) Its either poor journalism (not unheard of at the T&A)
2.) The Bulls are woefully skint – possible, however a reduction in spending has already occurred with numerous departures. The reduction in RFL monies must be offset with lack of loan/credit/back (re)payments we now don’t have to make since BBH ltd disappeared with THEIR debt
3.) The Bulls are trying to hurry up the RFL to make a decision, bit of pressure in the media never hurt.........
4.) If it is true, then we are ion big poo poo regards to recruitment and next season

Storck wrote:
Can not see why it matters what the RFL decide. He moved under TUPE regulations, very straight forward contract law. If RFL go against him he will go to court and win. They can try withhold his registration and then he would put a claim against them and OK Bulls for restraint of trade and would get a pay out, might take years but it would happen. It all depends on whether he is willing to sit out the two or three seasons that it would take to go through the courts and to the EU courts, eg Bosman ruling in football, it took him years to do it but he got all his lost wages back from his club and his FA.

They will be looking for a compromise where there is some give from Giants to get him for next year.

totally agree!!

whatever the RFL decide they do not take precedence over Employment Law in the UK

Who is his agent? It isn't Caisely is it? That would explain a lot.

Prycey wrote:
The signing last week took two weeks to go through. Can anyone say for certainty that we don't also have a bunch of other contracts on the table with other players waiting for them to go through?
Just because there isn't a signing every day doesn't mean we are skint. It takes time and a lot of talking to get things done. Just wait and see would be my advice.
Nobody on here really knows the truth of what is going on behind the scenes - and that goes for me too!

Agreed. There's probably offers all sat there just waiting to be signed...and I reckon a replacement Prop is already lined up. Personally, I hope he doesn't come back and we get a transfer fee. He's burnt his bridges and, yeah we need front rowers, but we need players that wanna be here too!

No point wasting time and effort on a player who does not want to be here, remember Hanley and Newlove, they mucked the club about before departing, I say the sooner it`s resolved the better.

At forum they said as far as they are aware he is a Bulls player so he must still be under contract cos i have heard may not be true but you can only cancel contract if there is going to be big changes for example we move to malta in 2 weeks, this was not true, and all things kept the same. So he can not terminate his contract

Should Bulls not confim what the playing budget is and who are his top earners.Just read that he likes to be honest hummmm.i think he is stretching it a bit only signed one loan player.Got a few injury prone players left on the squad, will be thin on ground.He needs to recruit and fast,. the clock is ticking.Get the begging bowel out chaps.

I read somewhere that RFL were to release decision this week now they have interviewed all parties.
As I commented under Feilden post,believe KC has law on side and can resign, however OK bought assets which included KC registration. As such 1/ Bulls should be able to recover some fee which RFL may set to allow KC to register elsewhere, or 2/ With SF signing Giants or KC may have change of mind in which case he stays a Bull, has to apologise eat humble pie etc but should be welcomed back
As Pricey said will have to wait and see.
With players that have left plus only 1 replacement, although some improved contracts, FC should have room to manoeuvre without waiting for RFL report.
In view of previous management false statements FC will have to be more careful or precise in what he says. Maybe trying to keep in limelight trying to sell more season tickets as that's where all clubs keep cash flow moving until season starts.

Bone_idle18 wrote:
Who is his agent? It isn't Caisely is it? That would explain a lot.

His agent is Martin Shuttleworth.
Chris Caisley is not the Player's agent. So let's not go there again.
I personally get sick and tired of these constant rantings from people who have probably done nothing for the club.But are willing to blame someone who actually did a lot for the club and for the future of Super League in this country.

Stick to the plot, will you

I just wish people would stop spouting when they haven't a clue about the facts. Also the 'children' using derogatory names like 'kopout' need to grow up. This young man is a fine prospect with a big future in the game and he (and his agent) saw the debacle at the Bulls and opted out. Sensible thing to do in most peoples eyes. If he can't find work at a more stable club (one that is not on probation), the Bulls would be crazy to not want him back.

Sheffieldbull wrote:

raisemeup wrote:

Reading Bullette wrote:
Of course it makes a difference to his recruitment. Which planet are you on? If sod hall decide he is still a Bradford player then his wage will be in next year's budget. That would make a big difference to who he can sign. All the players you have mentioned are all out of contract and if Kopjack isnt judged to be out player then a prop would be the priority. So it does make a big difference. As for the Hood-Caisley comments: what planet are you on?

Couldn't have put it better.

Logic outweighs emotion.

He (CK) has given us an unwanted extra dimension to the saga, at the wrong time in the re building plans.

It would be doubtful our current players would want him back after the disloyal way the affair was conducted. And it would be the worst scenario if we had to continue with his registration and contract whilst he wasn't playing for the club.

Therefore you can see the ultimate dilemma of paying an extra wage on a budget that is pretty tight?

raise, I don't see it the way you do. I understand that CK chose not to have his contract transferred under TUPE rules and as a result refused continued employment with OK Bulls - resulting in his refusal to play against the Cats'. That was his prerogative as I understand. He effectively resigned whether on the advise of his agent (spits) coupled with any 'tapping up' by Club or Clubs unnamed. From what i've read on the RFL site, there was a 'Gentleman's' agreement between the Clubs not to 'court' Bradford's contracted players until the Bulls future was clarified. Therefore the RFL has to decide what, if any, sanction, to impose on any Club that has been found to have flown in the face of that agreement. It maybe be that Franny wants this kid back - thats his call but I cannot see that the Bulls would need to 'hold' his registration and pay him without playing him, if you get my point. I understand there was a substantial falling out with CK and his fellow team mates about the way he (CK) handled the situation and it would risk team spirit if he returned without 'building bridges' with his team mates, the Club and the Fans, in my opinion.

Well Shef. not sure we do disagree, you have said pretty much in terms of how I see it anyway..one or two variants only but not likely to effect the outcome.

The gentlemans agreement if made with all others present is in fact a contract in law(it used to be anyway) validated by those witnesses.

I understand that if the RFL refuse to register CK with Huddersfield (and everything points that way) the Player is still registered with the Bulls, until the Bulls, I assume, release him from his contract, which again seems to be a sticking point in the Contract of employment regulations, which do offer the choice when a Transfer of Undertaking is in force. However it may be argued that a Player contract is taken out after the normal accepted Contract of employment, which would therefore represent a tacit and binding agreement between a club and a Player and therefore subject to some additional regulations.

We can only site the Harris affair where employment law didn't enter into the Contractual agreement normally found betwixt employer and employee. The high court judge under normal employment terms would have ruled that the contract made by Harris at the time of his transfer was in fact a restriction of trade, and in normal employment law void.

So we are therefore to assume that a Player contract is a different beast. And protracted legal wrangling is once again the name of the game.

In essence the Bulls should be offered a transfer compensation fee from Huddersfield, if their name is on any paper work, and we should be able to sign a different Prop, CK may be ruing the day he did what he did, as Wales can't call him up to captain them in the World Cup.

I therefore can understand what FC is saying, and the budgetary stance is made far worse by the RFL not telling us what punitive financial penalty, we should suffer in 2013, besides the blight of a prop shortage caused by a contracted Player leaving, incidently the only contracted Player to have taken this decision.

murphyslaw wrote:
I just wish people would stop spouting when they haven't a clue about the facts. Also the 'children' using derogatory names like 'kopout' need to grow up. This young man is a fine prospect with a big future in the game and he (and his agent) saw the debacle at the Bulls and opted out. Sensible thing to do in most peoples eyes. If he can't find work at a more stable club (one that is not on probation), the Bulls would be crazy to not want him back.

All I can say is its a good job all the other contracted players did not do the sensible thing and jump ship.

Well said, lets stick to the facts. Some of the rubbish posted on here.There was no big fall out with the other players"fact" He does not need to apoloised to anyone as he was employed by the old debt ridden company.As most of you just want OK Bulls to get a fee, from whoever signs him . I say JOG ON.They as a new company and he never played for them.Remember he was the player of the year, a year ago ,memories are short as Franny Cummings will find out.

raisemeup wrote:

Bone_idle18 wrote:
Who is his agent? It isn't Caisely is it? That would explain a lot.

His agent is Martin Shuttleworth.
Chris Caisley is not the Player's agent. So let's not go there again.
I personally get sick and tired of these constant rantings from people who have probably done nothing for the club.But are willing to blame someone who actually did a lot for the club and for the future of Super League in this country.

Stick to the plot, will you

sieg heil mein fuhrer!

Whilst Caisey (and Hood for that matter)MAY have done a lot for this club, where it is today is partly his/their doing.

What should supporters do for the club?? support maybe?

bbibby wrote:
Well said, lets stick to the facts. Some of the rubbish posted on here.There was no big fall out with the other players"fact" He does not need to apoloised to anyone as he was employed by the old debt ridden company.As most of you just want OK Bulls to get a fee, from whoever signs him . I say JOG ON.They as a new company and he never played for them.Remember he was the player of the year, a year ago ,memories are short as Franny Cummings will find out.

Another with inside knowledge, pity he isn`t a Bulls supporter

Steam Pigs wrote:

raisemeup wrote:

Bone_idle18 wrote:
Who is his agent? It isn't Caisely is it? That would explain a lot.

His agent is Martin Shuttleworth.
Chris Caisley is not the Player's agent. So let's not go there again.
I personally get sick and tired of these constant rantings from people who have probably done nothing for the club.But are willing to blame someone who actually did a lot for the club and for the future of Super League in this country.

Stick to the plot, will you

sieg heil mein fuhrer!

Whilst Caisey (and Hood for that matter)MAY have done a lot for this club, where it is today is partly his/their doing.

What should supporters do for the club?? support maybe?

And others no doubt.
But I personally have experience of the good done mostly by CC, in his 16 years at the club.

If you think I am anything like
a fuerher then so be it?
But in the scheme of things the facts are the facts, and whilst you are right about PH, Can you actually explain what CC did that was so wrong......
If you can, and also give irrefutable proof that was quite obvious with PH, then your words may not be as empty.

Sorry to have a go at you, your thoughts and words are very often worth listening to. But not in this instance.

Apart from the last few lines anyway.

I think this is an excuse to cover up an obvious lack of cash.
I said last week I couldn't understand how you can afford virtually the same team as last season, when that team last season was paid for by suppliers and the taxman.
Looks as though you have jumped out of the fire and onto a rat trap ;)
Maybe you should have sold some of your better players, put a few quid in the bank and started to rebuild from scratch.
For once it looks like Steam Pig may be right.

Shelf giving everyone the benefit of his long and deep understanding of all things RL built up over nearly 5 years of watching the game. aka, Rhino glory supporter....
.
He quotes what he says last last week... goodness, if only we'd have listened eh?
.
some other of his better posts include....Aug 12th ."Now to matters that only concern a couple of plebs on here.
Mumby and his organ grinder pal have been making insinuations about my sexuality on this public forum ( shame on you sheffbull, what with your knowledge of the malicious communications act and all), even though my sexuality should not even raise an issue in this day and age it seem like these two flatcappers have an axe to grind, so I'll just clear a few things up for you.
I am not a gay man, I live with my Female partner, who gave birth to our first son this February, the reason I said she wouldn't have talked to any of you is that she has had health problems since.
And as for taking the **** out of my name Tim, well at least I'm not as anonymous as you two cowards.
I put my real name on here when I was wishing one of your own well after I had put my foot in my mouth,I did it to try and show genuine sympathy off a fellow RL fan, not just some nomme de plume.
Hope that clears a few things up for you,and who knows I may even not report the pair of you to the T&A mods, but I just might."
.
Who could forget the "Cheers Viking, you are gent, deluded, but still a gent.

Mumby,
How did the night owning a rent boy go, did sheffdull join in, or just watch?
At your age you want to be careful you don't blow a gasket.
As for getting at me physically, grow up you silly old f**t, you sound like that knuckle dragger steamedfig.

sheffdull,
Thanks for the words about my partner, your right, she deserves a medal as big as a dustbin lid for living with me.

As I have posted on the other thread, last night was a major bite on my part.
I shouldn't have bothered posting after a very long day at work.
I hope normal service can be resumed, and look forward to hearing your vitriolic comments for a good while yet, ( although I expect most of you will disappear when all your best players are gone and you are in the championship).

Adios tu perdedores.
.

Highly cultural eh? That and laughing about 'Tramps dying in the cold weather' .... we look forward to your next rants about your hated team and supporters.... not!.
.
blub blub blub.....

Sheffieldbull wrote:
Shelf giving everyone the benefit of his long and deep understanding of all things RL built up over nearly 5 years of watching the game. aka, Rhino glory supporter....
.
He quotes what he says last last week... goodness, if only we'd have listened eh?
.
some other of his better posts include....Aug 12th ."Now to matters that only concern a couple of plebs on here.
Mumby and his organ grinder pal have been making insinuations about my sexuality on this public forum ( shame on you sheffbull, what with your knowledge of the malicious communications act and all), even though my sexuality should not even raise an issue in this day and age it seem like these two flatcappers have an axe to grind, so I'll just clear a few things up for you.
I am not a gay man, I live with my Female partner, who gave birth to our first son this February, the reason I said she wouldn't have talked to any of you is that she has had health problems since.
And as for taking the **** out of my name Tim, well at least I'm not as anonymous as you two cowards.
I put my real name on here when I was wishing one of your own well after I had put my foot in my mouth,I did it to try and show genuine sympathy off a fellow RL fan, not just some nomme de plume.
Hope that clears a few things up for you,and who knows I may even not report the pair of you to the T&A mods, but I just might."
.
Who could forget the "Cheers Viking, you are gent, deluded, but still a gent.

Mumby,
How did the night owning a rent boy go, did sheffdull join in, or just watch?
At your age you want to be careful you don't blow a gasket.
As for getting at me physically, grow up you silly old f**t, you sound like that knuckle dragger steamedfig.

sheffdull,
Thanks for the words about my partner, your right, she deserves a medal as big as a dustbin lid for living with me.

As I have posted on the other thread, last night was a major bite on my part.
I shouldn't have bothered posting after a very long day at work.
I hope normal service can be resumed, and look forward to hearing your vitriolic comments for a good while yet, ( although I expect most of you will disappear when all your best players are gone and you are in the championship).

Adios tu perdedores.
.

Highly cultural eh? That and laughing about 'Tramps dying in the cold weather' .... we look forward to your next rants about your hated team and supporters.... not!.
.
blub blub blub.....

Why didn't you post the one about me laughing about tramps dying? Is it because you just made that up?
If you think I'm bothered about any of that lot you quoted then you are sadly mistaken.

As for my hated team and supporters... it's better to be hated then pitied.

shelfwhino, you're doing it again, commenting on something you clearly don't have a clue about. There is simply something that you are not grasping here and that is no-one gives a monkeys uncle about anything you say on here. We only comment about yours because your brain does not comprehend that you are not wanted. Why, if you are a so-called rhino supporter do you come onto a Bulls forum and comment on a team that you know nothing about, it doesn't make sense. Go onto a general forum or go to the Whino form to spout your so-called words of wisdom and leave our site to the big boys.

Shelfrhino wrote:

Sheffieldbull wrote:
Shelf giving everyone the benefit of his long and deep understanding of all things RL built up over nearly 5 years of watching the game. aka, Rhino glory supporter....
.
He quotes what he says last last week... goodness, if only we'd have listened eh?
.
some other of his better posts include....Aug 12th ."Now to matters that only concern a couple of plebs on here.
Mumby and his organ grinder pal have been making insinuations about my sexuality on this public forum ( shame on you sheffbull, what with your knowledge of the malicious communications act and all), even though my sexuality should not even raise an issue in this day and age it seem like these two flatcappers have an axe to grind, so I'll just clear a few things up for you.
I am not a gay man, I live with my Female partner, who gave birth to our first son this February, the reason I said she wouldn't have talked to any of you is that she has had health problems since.
And as for taking the **** out of my name Tim, well at least I'm not as anonymous as you two cowards.
I put my real name on here when I was wishing one of your own well after I had put my foot in my mouth,I did it to try and show genuine sympathy off a fellow RL fan, not just some nomme de plume.
Hope that clears a few things up for you,and who knows I may even not report the pair of you to the T&A mods, but I just might."
.
Who could forget the "Cheers Viking, you are gent, deluded, but still a gent.

Mumby,
How did the night owning a rent boy go, did sheffdull join in, or just watch?
At your age you want to be careful you don't blow a gasket.
As for getting at me physically, grow up you silly old f**t, you sound like that knuckle dragger steamedfig.

sheffdull,
Thanks for the words about my partner, your right, she deserves a medal as big as a dustbin lid for living with me.

As I have posted on the other thread, last night was a major bite on my part.
I shouldn't have bothered posting after a very long day at work.
I hope normal service can be resumed, and look forward to hearing your vitriolic comments for a good while yet, ( although I expect most of you will disappear when all your best players are gone and you are in the championship).

Adios tu perdedores.
.

Highly cultural eh? That and laughing about 'Tramps dying in the cold weather' .... we look forward to your next rants about your hated team and supporters.... not!.
.
blub blub blub.....

Why didn't you post the one about me laughing about tramps dying? Is it because you just made that up?
If you think I'm bothered about any of that lot you quoted then you are sadly mistaken.

As for my hated team and supporters... it's better to be hated then pitied.

To answer my young friend Shelf>
without adding a quote copy that may take up another two pages!

Pity is only something we reserve for the pitiable,, which unfortunately for all your bluster happens to be you Shelf.

You are totally wrong about the majority hating Leeds, we don't! In fact if you actually care about the game you admire and respect all the players, and decent supporters who support the sport.

For example why Kevin Sinfield isn't the Man of Steel, seems like a travesty to me!

Do you actually know who Kevin Sinfield is, Shelf?

Shelf.... A couple of points of clarification for you.....
.
"Why didn't you post the one about me laughing about tramps dying? Is it because you just made that up?"
..... ARE YOU SAYING YOU DID NOT POST COMMENTS TO THAT EFFECT? IN THAT CASE YOU ARE A LIAR!
.
"As for my hated team and supporters... it's better to be hated then pitied.”
....Your hated team old son is Bradford Bulls and hated Fans are Bulls Fans, just to be clear OK?
.
Finally, you seem to have developed an unhealthy obsession with rats. May I suggest that you visit the South Stand at LS6 on a match day where you'll find all the vermin you'll ever need. Hope that helps you 'rat-boy' (no offence intended to Mr Rob Burrow)

raisemeup wrote:

Steam Pigs wrote:

raisemeup wrote:

Bone_idle18 wrote:
Who is his agent? It isn't Caisely is it? That would explain a lot.

His agent is Martin Shuttleworth.
Chris Caisley is not the Player's agent. So let's not go there again.
I personally get sick and tired of these constant rantings from people who have probably done nothing for the club.But are willing to blame someone who actually did a lot for the club and for the future of Super League in this country.

Stick to the plot, will you

sieg heil mein fuhrer!

Whilst Caisey (and Hood for that matter)MAY have done a lot for this club, where it is today is partly his/their doing.

What should supporters do for the club?? support maybe?

And others no doubt.
But I personally have experience of the good done mostly by CC, in his 16 years at the club.

If you think I am anything like
a fuerher then so be it?
But in the scheme of things the facts are the facts, and whilst you are right about PH, Can you actually explain what CC did that was so wrong......
If you can, and also give irrefutable proof that was quite obvious with PH, then your words may not be as empty.

Sorry to have a go at you, your thoughts and words are very often worth listening to. But not in this instance.

Apart from the last few lines anyway.

I was being facetious with the Fuher jibe!

CC + Harris + Spending Odsal Settlement + PH + fickle Bradford fans = the mess seen earlier this year

we will never see irrefutable proof sadly too many shady characters.......

Steam Pigs wrote:

raisemeup wrote:

Steam Pigs wrote:

raisemeup wrote:

Bone_idle18 wrote:
Who is his agent? It isn't Caisely is it? That would explain a lot.

His agent is Martin Shuttleworth.
Chris Caisley is not the Player's agent. So let's not go there again.
I personally get sick and tired of these constant rantings from people who have probably done nothing for the club.But are willing to blame someone who actually did a lot for the club and for the future of Super League in this country.

Stick to the plot, will you

sieg heil mein fuhrer!

Whilst Caisey (and Hood for that matter)MAY have done a lot for this club, where it is today is partly his/their doing.

What should supporters do for the club?? support maybe?

And others no doubt.
But I personally have experience of the good done mostly by CC, in his 16 years at the club.

If you think I am anything like
a fuerher then so be it?
But in the scheme of things the facts are the facts, and whilst you are right about PH, Can you actually explain what CC did that was so wrong......
If you can, and also give irrefutable proof that was quite obvious with PH, then your words may not be as empty.

Sorry to have a go at you, your thoughts and words are very often worth listening to. But not in this instance.

Apart from the last few lines anyway.

I was being facetious with the Fuher jibe!

CC + Harris + Spending Odsal Settlement + PH + fickle Bradford fans = the mess seen earlier this year

we will never see irrefutable proof sadly too many shady characters.......

Accepted but let's face it most of what you say isn't actually clear proof of any wrong doing.

Firstly Harris!...Who knew of any problem until after the event, the RFL had supposedly investigated his registration details and had accepted the validity of registering him as a Bulls Player?

Two!...Spending Odsal settlement, on an up to date corporate Stand which also doubles up for a first class communication centre and conference facility. In fact that is the only tangible asset OK Bulls own at the ground.
So a good well thought out move in my opinion, but not known at the time..

Presumably PH taking over as chairman was CCs fault, but resignation is not actually an offence is it?

I assume you mean that Bradford fans are fickle in thinking all the blame lies with one person? Illogical is a word I would use..but not as a generalisation.

True enough when you imply CC had a habit of preaching to the converted,
about all the issues facing the lack of support etc.

I always maintain it's unfair to tell those who do support, that they are are the ones that are wrong for not supporting, if you see what I mean.

But again it's not a hanging offence.

My point is that to stand up against an injustice, is far better than letting it fester in the minds of our Supporters.

Without proof of wrongdoing then to attack someone is always wrong IMO.

Thanks for your comments, apology accepted...I'll get back to my copy of Mein Kamfe now???

Who knew about Harris and potential problems? Errrmmm Gary Hetherington for one, did he not warn Caisley off??????? Did Caisley continue to court Harris because it would “annoy” Gary? This was/is Caisley, a senior partner at a LAW firm by the way, why didn’t the Bulls ever claim liabilities against Caisley as they would have against AN Other law firm in terms of bad advice??

The coral stand is totally un-utilised and not fit for purpose! £2.3 million for 6 portacabins stuck together??????? You think thats value?? I can assure you it was not value, even at 50% of the price it was expensive..... Wonder how Caisley was/is linked to the contractor hired to design and build it....... The settlement money from the Council was to cover on-going maintenance etc... not to be splashed out on a folly. Ever thought why is the ground in such a state now????? Yeah we do own it ..... at least OK is looking at utilising it, that will be novel

Why did CC resign exactly?? Maybe saw the horizon and thought I’m getting out while its good, nowt to do with family as he trotted out at the time..... why did a club director not attend board meetings for 2 years!!!???

Why were the RFL so against CC getting control again earlier this year??

And if you are such a CC fan, why did he put us in admin and then sharply disappear???

Fickle bradford fans is in relation to our falling attendances etc... and just how fickle the fans can be

And what proof do you have that CC is not guilty or partly?? I have proof that the company that he & PH were directors of is about (if not already) to be dissolved..... says a lot

I never apologised

PS Mein Kampf is pants, to understand Adolf better can I suggest Hitler: A study In Tyranny, by a Brit called Alan Bullock

Steam Pigs wrote:
Who knew about Harris and potential problems? Errrmmm Gary Hetherington for one, did he not warn Caisley off??????? Did Caisley continue to court Harris because it would “annoy” Gary? This was/is Caisley, a senior partner at a LAW firm by the way, why didn’t the Bulls ever claim liabilities against Caisley as they would have against AN Other law firm in terms of bad advice??

The coral stand is totally un-utilised and not fit for purpose! £2.3 million for 6 portacabins stuck together??????? You think thats value?? I can assure you it was not value, even at 50% of the price it was expensive..... Wonder how Caisley was/is linked to the contractor hired to design and build it....... The settlement money from the Council was to cover on-going maintenance etc... not to be splashed out on a folly. Ever thought why is the ground in such a state now????? Yeah we do own it ..... at least OK is looking at utilising it, that will be novel

Why did CC resign exactly?? Maybe saw the horizon and thought I’m getting out while its good, nowt to do with family as he trotted out at the time..... why did a club director not attend board meetings for 2 years!!!???

Why were the RFL so against CC getting control again earlier this year??

And if you are such a CC fan, why did he put us in admin and then sharply disappear???

Fickle bradford fans is in relation to our falling attendances etc... and just how fickle the fans can be

And what proof do you have that CC is not guilty or partly?? I have proof that the company that he & PH were directors of is about (if not already) to be dissolved..... says a lot

I never apologised

PS Mein Kampf is pants, to understand Adolf better can I suggest Hitler: A study In Tyranny, by a Brit called Alan Bullock

You are obviously seriously deluded>
Would you care to see CCs profile?
Lets put it this way. He is far more trustworthy than you are, to turn on a friend that way,,, I'm ashamed of you?

Chris Caisley profile from Linkedin:

Sports lawyer, formerly Chairman and head of Commercial Litigation at Walker Morris. Acts for sports clubs and sports personalities on sponsorship contracts, staging agreements, image rights and contractual disputes. Litigation experience also includes complex trading contracts, disputes arising out of corporate acquisitions, professional negligence claims and defamation.

Director
CSC Consultants Ltd
May 2012 – Present (6 months) Settle, North Yorkshire
Sports consultancy services to sports clubs and sports governing bodies
Partner
Walker Morris


A senior dispute resolution partner and the head of Commercial Litigation at Walker Morris 1979 - 2012. Played a significant role in the substantial growth of the firm's Litigation Department.

Consul to the Netherlands
Kingdom of the Netherlands

1989 – 2011 (22 years) Leeds, United Kingdom

Consul to the Netherlands for 22 years and decorated for services in 2012 with the honour of Knight in the Order of Orange Nassau.
Panel Member
Sports Betting Integrity Panel

2009 – 2010 (1 year)

Appointed as a member of the Sports Betting Integrity Panel formed by the UK Minister for Sport with a remit to investigate and report on integrity in sport in relation to betting (Report published 1 February 2010)
Chairman
Bradford Bulls Holdings Ltd

June 1989 – February 2006 (16 years 9 months) Bradford, United Kingdom

Chairman of Bradford Bulls rugby league club during which time the club became the most successful rugby league club during that Super League era, winning 4 Championships, 2 Challenge Cups and 3 World Club Championships as well as appearing in 6 other major finals and winning the Rugby Union Twickenham Sevens.
Vice Chairman
The Rugby Football League

2000 – 2002 (2 years) Leeds, United Kingdom

Vice Chairman of the RFL
Chairman
Super League Europe

1997 – 2002 (5 years) Leeds

Chairman of SLE, the sports body then responsible for the administration of the rugby league Super League.

Be careful what you say about people, without proof - it's libel, and saying it about the wrong person can have repercussions.
But unlikely in this instance.

mmm! Impressive profile raise - but bulls fans will only remember two things not mentioned above.

The Harris debacle

Putting the Club into Administration and exiting stage... left!

I don`t wish to get into an argument about the above, but all you provide is CC`s C.V. which shows nothing of the true character of the man. A good example would be Jimmy Saville, his C.V. makes him a saint, his true character! well I leave it up to you.

Capabull wrote:
I don`t wish to get into an argument about the above, but all you provide is CC`s C.V. which shows nothing of the true character of the man. A good example would be Jimmy Saville, his C.V. makes him a saint, his true character! well I leave it up to you.

BINGO!!

Want to see my CV or Linked in profile?? Both make me look BRILLIANT..... Are you that gullible????? seriously are you????

As for proof - I invite CC to sue me for libel if he can - however he won't because all the info I have reported is already in the public domain.....

How does anyone know the true character of anyone?

People on this site seem to be hell bent on finding a scapegoat for all the ills of the past.

I obviously have known Chris Caisley for many years.
I know that for his tenure with the Bulls he gave a lot of his spare to the Supporters at that time who felt he was a true Bulls supporter like them.

He was also the first to support ventures that would bring success to the club.

Therefore what will you say to convince me differently, the answer of course is nothing?

SP says I am gullible, yes that may be so. As i failed to realise that many of the posters are not what they say they are. Wolves in sheeps clothing is a saying that comes to mind.

raisemeup wrote:
How does anyone know the true character of anyone?

People on this site seem to be hell bent on finding a scapegoat for all the ills of the past.

I obviously have known Chris Caisley for many years.
I know that for his tenure with the Bulls he gave a lot of his spare to the Supporters at that time who felt he was a true Bulls supporter like them.

He was also the first to support ventures that would bring success to the club.

Therefore what will you say to convince me differently, the answer of course is nothing?

SP says I am gullible, yes that may be so. As i failed to realise that many of the posters are not what they say they are. Wolves in sheeps clothing is a saying that comes to mind.

get out of his a$$ and think for yourself..... you have that ability blindly following does you or him no favours

sorry but its not scapegoats its responsibiliy and acceptance - PH & CC have led this club to where it is now, no doubt both did honourable and laudible things too

I do resent those remarks.

You do not read the detail enough to make such snap judgements.

Debate over>

raisemeup wrote:
I do resent those remarks.

You do not read the detail enough to make such snap judgements.

Debate over>

good as there is an old saying, you can't educate pork.....

please carry on thinking the sun shines out of Caisleys a$$

I await my summons on liable.....


YAWN zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
z

Steam Pigs wrote:

raisemeup wrote:
I do resent those remarks.

You do not read the detail enough to make such snap judgements.

Debate over>

good as there is an old saying, you can't educate pork.....

please carry on thinking the sun shines out of Caisleys a$$

I await my summons on liable.....


YAWN zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

z

You fail to see the irony in that statement,

With a pseudonym containing Pigs, You say you can't educate Pork?

I know who I would trust in a tight situation, give you one guess who that might be?
Is it your turn to have the last word???