Bradford Bulls call in legal advisers over Kopczak ‘terminating contract’ (From Bradford Telegraph and Argus)

Good luck to him. Let the players make their choice whilst the club is still breathing although on a life support machine. Any member of staff should be given the option to leave and no doubt have a legal right in view of all the problems that have been endured.

You cant blame him for going, what was he expected to do just wait and see if bulls went bust? Well done for sorting it out koppy and having the foresight, I can see MP sorting his future out today too if you know what I mean.

Aren't Huddersfield a class outfit? They were the first to pick the bones clean at Wakefield too. What goes around...etc

Unusual timing why now before the last game ? will be interesting to see how the RFL handle this, but its no use keeping a player who doesn't want to be there good luck to him wherever he goes.

Given the ridiculously long time it has taken to sort this mess, I think the bulls should leave him be! He is not to blame for all this mess and has taken steps in securing his own future, and in super league.
I think we should all prepare ourselves for more of the same over coming wks! All the best to him, hope to see him back some day!

****. Never rated him.

The best British prop in super league in my opinion. It's a real shame he's done this, the fans have really stuck by the players all year long and to refuse to play in a game that could determine our playoff status is very disappointing.

I can understand that the players have gone through a lot this year but you don't turn your back on your fellow team mates/coach and the fans like that. At least see the season through then put in a transfer request.

Whether Kopczak stays or leaves is not the issue here, it's the fact that Huddersfield have broken an agreement made by all the Super League clubs not to contact any of the Bulls contracted players.

I hope we have some legal protection here so that they will have to pay a transfer fee for him. His current reputation should make that quite a high figure... let's see if they still want him then.

I would suggest the timing is a disgrace when we are still in with a chance of getting to the play offs.
To the player himself you cannot blame for looking out for his family but what about approaches when all clubs said they would leave well alone. It is the coniving agents who do this and approach other teams and check them out to see if they are interested.
I deplore such behaviour especially before the end of the season .
The comment about Huddersfield stripping Wakefield bare is true they are having agood go at lot of our players too. Such a shame that only half the number of people turn up to watch them as they do the Bulls .
Good luck Kopczack --a quiet life for you now as there will be no one there to cheer you on .

otleybull wrote:
The best British prop in super league in my opinion. It's a real shame he's done this, the fans have really stuck by the players all year long and to refuse to play in a game that could determine our playoff status is very disappointing.

I can understand that the players have gone through a lot this year but you don't turn your back on your fellow team mates/coach and the fans like that. At least see the season through then put in a transfer request.

Well in mine, your having a laugh. He's average at best.

Not a big loss at all.

Mumby was the best wrote:
You cant blame him for going, what was he expected to do just wait and see if bulls went bust? Well done for sorting it out koppy and having the foresight, I can see MP sorting his future out today too if you know what I mean.

Don't quite agree there Mumby, all the players were in the same boat and Craig has been paid throughout the whole process. Also he is contracted until 2013 so he's technically an asset of the old company which has been bought by the new owners, I reckon he's in breach of that contract by bailing out. It's shoddy to say the least when all around him at Odsal have been working fo nowt, gave him big support throughout his dad's illness and looked after him through is injury problems. Poor show Craig, and disgusting display Huddersfield for breaking ranks. They technically weren't allowed by the RFL regs anyway to approach players before september, so how come he's got a done deal. Hope you enjoy your new club Craig and good luck, but I reckon most of the fans who contributed to the various Bulls funds over the last few months will be disappointed by this.

This appears to reflex badly on 'friends' at the John Smiths stadium. On one hand I don't blame CK for wanting to secure his future but there is a matter of a contract, a undertaking by SL clubs to take a 'Hands off' approach and indeed a steer from the RFL in the same vain. I've heard the rumours about CK and Gale (Stranger as well) being lined up to the Giants should the Bulls not gain a SL license - which is acceptable, I suppose, but the timing of this will do the Player and Giants no good at all IMO. If the players had not been paid though the Administration period then all contracts would have been rendered null and void and that would have been another story. Why has this happened now? It appears a confrontation is expected. I had a lot to say about our Aussie No7 mummies boy we imported a couple of years ago who ripped up his contract when he got his hair wet in the rain so I really can't take a different stance with CK.
.
I await our pious posters joy at this story, spouting they bitter bile about how the Bulls deserve this but I would remind them that it is morally wrong - or are morals just something that you can pick and chose to suit your argument?

I dont blame any player for looking after there interests

What i do believe is the RFL have not come out and backed the new owners of the club to enable them the chance to keep these players

The saga as gone on to long there was suposed to be announcement yesterday nothing appears to have been done

What chance as any one in making any investments in players or comitments until the take over as been agreed and what ever status we are going to play under

Huddersfield were the lone team to vote against us when the clubs took a vote. Koppy did what he felt he had to do so good luck to the lad but he has been paid in full and is still under contract.

.
Will I be going to that away game next year? What do you think?.
Should 3000 Bulls supporters be going there next year and giving them about £50k - it's up to them!

The way the players have been treated I think contracts terminated weeks ago! IF the RFL had not done something they have never seem to do for any other club there would be no players left even for today's game. The whole situation is a Farce and still continues to be! A Disgrace to the game of Rugby League.

King Michael wrote:

otleybull wrote:
The best British prop in super league in my opinion. It's a real shame he's done this, the fans have really stuck by the players all year long and to refuse to play in a game that could determine our playoff status is very disappointing.

I can understand that the players have gone through a lot this year but you don't turn your back on your fellow team mates/coach and the fans like that. At least see the season through then put in a transfer request.

Well in mine, your having a laugh. He's average at best.

Not a big loss at all.

Well we coped most of the season without him. To be honest, I think Burgess & Hargreaves are bigger losses. But it's time the RFL made a decision and if we stay in SL, then we should go after Huddersfield for a lot more than a transfer fee!

I'm guessing the timing has something to do with the exchange of assets to OK Bulls. Had CK played this last game it would probably be seen as him accepting the new club and contract. By terminating his contract at this point I guess he (rightly or wrongly) has been advised that he is now a free agent.
Although disappointing I think we need to understand it from his point of view - I would certainly be trying to look after number 1 if I was in his position.
Good luck to him, although as with other posters, I don't think this reflects well on the Giants, & I think he will be the first of many (see Bateman's not playing this afternoon!).

jaybs wrote:
The way the players have been treated I think contracts terminated weeks ago! IF the RFL had not done something they have never seem to do for any other club there would be no players left even for today's game. The whole situation is a Farce and still continues to be! A Disgrace to the game of Rugby League.

But the players contracts have NOT been terminated and thats the issue here. As Shipley Paul rightly stated "Also he is contracted until 2013 so he's technically an asset of the old company which has been bought by the new owners," - simple fact.
.
If you bought a house and found out when moving in that the fitted kitchen had been removed, how would you react?

Reading other posts I'm not sure where I stand. Can't clubs go in for players from September anyway? Whilst the clubs agreed not to go in for bulls players, if nothing is in writing, then hudds can do what they want in this respect. Loopy has terminated his own contract, that's the key here, hudds may hav offered him a deal, but they cannot terminate his contract for him.
This whole saga has become a joke. The longer this drags on, the more players will leave, which means there would be even less a chance of us being in sl nxt season as we wont end up having a squad suitable to compete in the too league. Just seems like this is being dragged out on purpose??
I'm happy the club has been saved, but I'm still gutted and angry that this charade still continues!

The last 3 posts (Shipley-Shefff-Bart
s)
are absolutely correct.
I can tell you that the transfer of undertaking maintains all contractual arrangements for all employed staff.

Which of course means that OK Bulls cannot sack those staff for a period of time, in essence all employement is continuous to the OK takeover, I assume contracts are even more relevant to this.
Therefore CK will be in breach of contract and Huddersfield if they have approached CK via the agent, will be in the similar situation to the Harris fiasco.
I again would assume, although circumstances may be different, but the legal team will sort it. And if it's Walker Morris (CC) I would say to Craig, stay where you are son, it's not gonna be worth it to you or your family.

If we go into the championship your contract will be void anyway, as you are contracted to a Super League club as a full time Player. Not championship as part time.

Timing is terrible and I wouldn't have expected this from you of all people.
To say I am dissapointed is an under statement, and under the reported circumstances I would,reluctantly, say go, but not with my blessing! You have let yourself, your sponsors, and all of us who helped support you in these trying times down. Compare the story from Manase Manuokafoa for how you should have behaved. No one denies you or anyone in the team the right to secure their futures, but there is a way to do it. Huddersfied are predatorary , but think on they may be in the same situation, if they lose their benefactor.
frying pan to fire, comes to mind. Think long and hard on this Craig.

Id let him sit on the sidelines till his contract ends next November !
He's under contract and isn't able to speak to other clubs without the bulls permission.

Mumby was the best wrote:
You cant blame him for going, what was he expected to do just wait and see if bulls went bust? Well done for sorting it out koppy and having the foresight, I can see MP sorting his future out today too if you know what I mean.

The first two posts on here are to be ignored. We know why. As to koppy, well Giants have put their rather large foot in it. I would say that, 1) if they are found guilty of speaking to a player contracted to the bulls, then they are seriously in breach of the RFL agreement. 2) Bulls should now ask for a large transfer fee. 3) the RFL, fine Giants for the approach, heavily and dock them points prior to start of season. 4) the other scenario is that we have been relegated to championship.
As to koppy in all this, his agent has totally missled him. The agent if he is wrong in this should be banned from being able to handle any players within the RFL setup.

raisemeup wrote:
The last 3 posts (Shipley-Shefff-Bart

s)
are absolutely correct.
I can tell you that the transfer of undertaking maintains all contractual arrangements for all employed staff.

Which of course means that OK Bulls cannot sack those staff for a period of time, in essence all employement is continuous to the OK takeover, I assume contracts are even more relevant to this.
Therefore CK will be in breach of contract and Huddersfield if they have approached CK via the agent, will be in the similar situation to the Harris fiasco.
I again would assume, although circumstances may be different, but the legal team will sort it. And if it's Walker Morris (CC) I would say to Craig, stay where you are son, it's not gonna be worth it to you or your family.

If we go into the championship your contract will be void anyway, as you are contracted to a Super League club as a full time Player. Not championship as part time.

Timing is terrible and I wouldn't have expected this from you of all people.
To say I am dissapointed is an under statement, and under the reported circumstances I would,reluctantly, say go, but not with my blessing! You have let yourself, your sponsors, and all of us who helped support you in these trying times down. Compare the story from Manase Manuokafoa for how you should have behaved. No one denies you or anyone in the team the right to secure their futures, but there is a way to do it. Huddersfied are predatorary , but think on they may be in the same situation, if they lose their benefactor.
frying pan to fire, comes to mind. Think long and hard on this Craig.

Agreed. What goes around comes around. If we end up in Super League in 2013, this could really come to bite him on the backside.

Read TUPE guidelines and you will realise it is legal and the solicitor Involved will no doubt make mince meat of Ross!

Under the Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations (TUPE), if a business - or a part of a business - is transferred to another business, in most cases the employees of the old employer will automatically transfer to the new employer on their existing terms and conditions.

However, an employee can't be transferred to a new employer against their will and may object to the transfer before it takes place.

In this case, if they refuse to have their contract transferred to the new employer, the employee is regarded as having resigned with effect from the transfer date.

This is why he won't be playing against Catalans.

He has shown his level.... He couldn't wait to do this for two days or a week??? He deserves to go to Huddersfield.. But I truly hope we take this vile and nasty club to court. I for one won't go their ground... Just hope the rest of us boycott too..
This is the one club who voted against us... Just shows how two faced they are.. They only exist due to a corrupt merger with Sheffield....

Bullbreath wrote:
Read TUPE guidelines and you will realise it is legal and the solicitor Involved will no doubt make mince meat of Ross!

Under the Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations (TUPE), if a business - or a part of a business - is transferred to another business, in most cases the employees of the old employer will automatically transfer to the new employer on their existing terms and conditions.

However, an employee can't be transferred to a new employer against their will and may object to the transfer before it takes place.

In this case, if they refuse to have their contract transferred to the new employer, the employee is regarded as having resigned with effect from the transfer date.

This is why he won't be playing against Catalans.

Much obliged Bull B.

Will read up on TUPE, obviously some changes that I hadn't registered as yet.

However I am still not sure that this shouldn't have been stated before the transfer. That seems to be the crux of the matter.

Who's Ross by the way?

Totally dissapointed with Koppy , for the way this has been done.

But now what are the odds on 29 coming home after last nights performance ? did he do enough for the pie muncher to offer him a new deal ??

A few months ago we were all facing losing our club. Now, we seem to have a decent business man owning us with others showing interest. We must not lose sight that the important thing has happened – survival. I am now preparing myself for a few years of re-building and stabilising the club. People will leave and new players will come. My initial hope is that we keep the 5 ausies with Purtill making a full recovery. The young forwards currently in the team need keeping. Bateman is injured and wants to stay! More importantly, we need to keep the colt’s team together as they are our future in 3-5 years’ time. If we manage to do this with Potter, Cummins and the other coaches all working at Tong I believe we have come out of all this pretty well. That is why I am not too fussed about the odd one or two going. Shame about Elima and Koppy but that’s life. The others going are no concern to me and we will replace them. Koppy and Elima are going for money. Give it a couple of years and the dust will have settled and the Bulls will start attracting players again. For now, let’s just be glad we have survived. To those saying we will be demoted I ask one question. How many supporters were at the Fax play-off game on Thursday night at Halifax when people are saying they may replace us? Answer = less than 3000 – I think! Now who do you think the RFL secretly want in SL next year – Us or Fax? Answers on a postcard.

Prycey wrote:
A few months ago we were all facing losing our club. Now, we seem to have a decent business man owning us with others showing interest. We must not lose sight that the important thing has happened – survival. I am now preparing myself for a few years of re-building and stabilising the club. People will leave and new players will come. My initial hope is that we keep the 5 ausies with Purtill making a full recovery. The young forwards currently in the team need keeping. Bateman is injured and wants to stay! More importantly, we need to keep the colt’s team together as they are our future in 3-5 years’ time. If we manage to do this with Potter, Cummins and the other coaches all working at Tong I believe we have come out of all this pretty well. That is why I am not too fussed about the odd one or two going. Shame about Elima and Koppy but that’s life. The others going are no concern to me and we will replace them. Koppy and Elima are going for money. Give it a couple of years and the dust will have settled and the Bulls will start attracting players again. For now, let’s just be glad we have survived. To those saying we will be demoted I ask one question. How many supporters were at the Fax play-off game on Thursday night at Halifax when people are saying they may replace us? Answer = less than 3000 – I think! Now who do you think the RFL secretly want in SL next year – Us or Fax? Answers on a postcard.

Maybe they want us in SL , but do not want us embarrassing them by getting into the play-offs, that was blatently obvious with the refs display last weekend. Listening to RL Extra on radio Manchester on Thursday evening , they interviewed Ganson, on several questios , one of which was the sin bin incident of Ben Jeffries, " totally wrong decision " was Gansons call , but no mention of the spear tackle!, but this morning listening on line to the NRL Playoffs, incident in Storm/ Rabbits game where Proctor spear tackles Burgess, the commentry team calling for a red card , as that should be the result for a disgusting tackle, again ref did nothing.
Re Bateman's injury, he was targetted whilst in Aus (jaw injury) but hurt his shoulder against Hudds , AND DOES NOT WANT TO LEAVE THE BULLS!

Shipley Paul wrote:

Mumby was the best wrote:
You cant blame him for going, what was he expected to do just wait and see if bulls went bust? Well done for sorting it out koppy and having the foresight, I can see MP sorting his future out today too if you know what I mean.

Don't quite agree there Mumby, all the players were in the same boat and Craig has been paid throughout the whole process. Also he is contracted until 2013 so he's technically an asset of the old company which has been bought by the new owners, I reckon he's in breach of that contract by bailing out. It's shoddy to say the least when all around him at Odsal have been working fo nowt, gave him big support throughout his dad's illness and looked after him through is injury problems. Poor show Craig, and disgusting display Huddersfield for breaking ranks. They technically weren't allowed by the RFL regs anyway to approach players before september, so how come he's got a done deal. Hope you enjoy your new club Craig and good luck, but I reckon most of the fans who contributed to the various Bulls funds over the last few months will be disappointed by this.

Bradford players were publicly given permission to talk to other clubs weeks ago. Kopczak hasn't done anything out of order. He had a contract with Bradford Bulls Holdings which was then taken over by P&A and he doesn't have to agree to that being again transferred to a new employer, i.e OK Bulls Ltd. This is yet another result of the protracted administration period. The only players that won't leave are those who aren't wanted by other clubs.

Bullbreath wrote:
Read TUPE guidelines and you will realise it is legal and the solicitor Involved will no doubt make mince meat of Ross!

Under the Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations (TUPE), if a business - or a part of a business - is transferred to another business, in most cases the employees of the old employer will automatically transfer to the new employer on their existing terms and conditions.

However, an employee can't be transferred to a new employer against their will and may object to the transfer before it takes place.

In this case, if they refuse to have their contract transferred to the new employer, the employee is regarded as having resigned with effect from the transfer date.

This is why he won't be playing against Catalans.

Well stated Bullbreath.
From experience with the Manual workers from Bfd. Council to Numerous Contractors their contracts were protected and they had the option to go with it or resign.
As you have rightly said he can choose not to play with/for OK Bulls as they were not the ones he signed his contract with and by playing today in Catalan he would be effectively accepting the new set up, i.e. transfer of contract.
Let him choose his own fate as that is what it would be with Hudds. The biggest non achievers in the League.
Every year they set off like a house on fire and fall away.
Talking of them, I think they are the ones to be pilloried over this if indeed they have broken the rules by approaching him.

This from a better source than t n a

http://full.orangewo
rld.co.uk/rugbyleagu
e/article/kopczak_se
t_for_bulls_battle?s
id=7e58a6c0a895

I advise ALL to read it, will clear a lot of things up.

What's a contract worth anyway. Let the lad go, if he doesn't want to play for us. I would have thought Bulls are hardly in a position to accuse anyone of reneging on a contract!

See sporting life RL for more info.

The lad obviously wants to play in SL next year

theviking62 wrote:

Mumby was the best wrote: You cant blame him for going, what was he expected to do just wait and see if bulls went bust? Well done for sorting it out koppy and having the foresight, I can see MP sorting his future out today too if you know what I mean.

The first two posts on here are to be ignored. We know why. As to koppy, well Giants have put their rather large foot in it. I would say that, 1) if they are found guilty of speaking to a player contracted to the bulls, then they are seriously in breach of the RFL agreement. 2) Bulls should now ask for a large transfer fee. 3) the RFL, fine Giants for the approach, heavily and dock them points prior to start of season. 4) the other scenario is that we have been relegated to championship. As to koppy in all this, his agent has totally missled him. The agent if he is wrong in this should be banned from being able to handle any players within the RFL setup.

Dont get too giddy Viking its not another Iestyn Harris saga,
Talking of saga where did you go on holiday again ?

pweibj67 wrote:
He has shown his level.... He couldn't wait to do this for two days or a week??? He deserves to go to Huddersfield.. But I truly hope we take this vile and nasty club to court. I for one won't go their ground... Just hope the rest of us boycott too.. This is the one club who voted against us... Just shows how two faced they are.. They only exist due to a corrupt merger with Sheffield....

Nothing that has owt to do with any Sheffield thing is taken seriously.

an other gone lol soon have nowt left sept pryce scrouton plat and the other shart hahahaha cheeters gone for good lol

New Hall Nev wrote:
an other gone lol soon have nowt left sept pryce scrouton plat and the other shart hahahaha cheeters gone for good lol

Like your team (allegedly) you Nev need to press on now. My advice would be to get yourself an education, nothing fancy, just walking and talking at the same time would be a sound start, don't bother with the written word, that would be going too far. I've personally enjoyed your attempted wind-ups but have needed to resort to sympathy in the main. Good luck for the future, I fear you'll need it terry.

What will be will....None of us can blame anyone for protecting their job and livelihood. Many have kids and they are priority.
In the end IF we get SL next year things will work themselves out and we WILL be successful long term. Young lads will come and go and the cream will rise.
This is Lad is ok. But not super. Not world class. He's better off in Huddersfield . Good luck to him.

Sheffieldbull wrote:

New Hall Nev wrote:
an other gone lol soon have nowt left sept pryce scrouton plat and the other shart hahahaha cheeters gone for good lol

Like your team (allegedly) you Nev need to press on now. My advice would be to get yourself an education, nothing fancy, just walking and talking at the same time would be a sound start, don't bother with the written word, that would be going too far. I've personally enjoyed your attempted wind-ups but have needed to resort to sympathy in the main. Good luck for the future, I fear you'll need it terry.

least i have a job doley and my name is Nev. idiot lol

New Hall Nev wrote:

Sheffieldbull wrote:

New Hall Nev wrote:
an other gone lol soon have nowt left sept pryce scrouton plat and the other shart hahahaha cheeters gone for good lol

Like your team (allegedly) you Nev need to press on now. My advice would be to get yourself an education, nothing fancy, just walking and talking at the same time would be a sound start, don't bother with the written word, that would be going too far. I've personally enjoyed your attempted wind-ups but have needed to resort to sympathy in the main. Good luck for the future, I fear you'll need it terry.

least i have a job doley and my name is Nev. idiot lol

(.)(.)s, Both of you!

Always liked Koppy, thought he tried hard & was starting to look SL standard. Think his agent must have told him what to do.

I don't blame any of the 17 out of contract players for looking for new deals and wish them all well. Koppy on the other hand was contracted until the end of next season. The Bulls didn't break contracts with any players & this just leaves a bad taste with me.

It might be a job but that job also means you are part of a group of individuals who need to trust each other. Its an ugly word, but the word 'scab' comes to my mind

Also hope the agent & Huddersfield are brought to book on this one.

Just checked the article on orange as Viking suggested. It seems his agent is basing the rules on what happened at Rangers. As far as i'm aware Rangers were liquidated and a complete new company formed, The new owners didn't purchase the club from anyone, therefore all contracts would have been terminated, then the new company must have offered the players new contracts which they had a right to reject

The Bulls weren't liquidated The business was sold & therefore all existing assets & contracts transferred to OK Bulls. Hope we fight this, £100,000 transfer fee will come in handy

Hudds are a disgrace..they have signed plenty of other clubs young prospects in recent years as their own development is crap....wardle, feguson, murphy, patrick, carlisle. 5000 crowds they are not worth worryin about. Kopczaks attitude is shocking after things he said earlier this year about loving the club etc. After he support the club gave him through his development and tough family times his attitude to the club and his team mates is a disgrace - very peed off by him, though always thought he w over rated....hope you rot in Hudds you X&$%£$

Thing is he (Koppy) has said he wants to leave so what do Bulls do? They can seek legal advice as they say the are doing but what is the point? They could sue Koppy for all his assets and where would that leave them with the players and their union. They could force him to stay but what good would that do? Just let the guy go and move on is best in my opinion.

murphyslaw wrote:
Thing is he (Koppy) has said he wants to leave so what do Bulls do? They can seek legal advice as they say the are doing but what is the point? They could sue Koppy for all his assets and where would that leave them with the players and their union. They could force him to stay but what good would that do? Just let the guy go and move on is best in my opinion.

I agree with you but maybe by making a noise about it they may make the RL decide a fee should be paid for his services. No point in lining solicitors pockets, wev`e been burnt before in a similar situation.

bradfordbronco wrote:
Just checked the article on orange as Viking suggested. It seems his agent is basing the rules on what happened at Rangers. As far as i'm aware Rangers were liquidated and a complete new company formed, The new owners didn't purchase the club from anyone, therefore all contracts would have been terminated, then the new company must have offered the players new contracts which they had a right to reject

The Bulls weren't liquidated The business was sold & therefore all existing assets & contracts transferred to OK Bulls. Hope we fight this, £100,000 transfer fee will come in handy

Bulls have not been liquidated YET.

OK Bulls have bought some from the administrators, but as has been stated before TUPE means that the players can leave as they do not have to accept the transfer. The position with the Bulls is identical to Rangers, in both case there has been no CVA and what has been left after the buy out will be liquidated.

If there had been a CVA then TUPE would not have been applicable as the whole company would have been bought but that would have meant OK would have had to come to agreement with the creditors which would have taken time and the SL or administrator would have probably blocked the delay.

Huddersfield have probably not done anything wrong unless they approached him before he got the legal letter notifying him of the transfer of his contract. Once he got that he is free to do what he wanted and speak to whoever he wants.

Why no commentary section on this story?

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