Bantams old boy Flynn warns: There's method behind Allen's madness (From Bradford Telegraph and Argus)

I still think that PP should've allowed Flynn to have a last home game send off, instead of letting him go without us being able to thank him. He may not have been the best player that we've ever had but he was 100% for us and deserved some sort of farewell.

Send off, are you joking!?
If we gave every average player who is often injured a good send off we'd never leave Valley Parade!!
Good luck to the lad but he only had 5 or 6 decent games for us in 3 or 4 years!

neiltherealdeal wrote:
Send off, are you joking!?
If we gave every average player who is often injured a good send off we'd never leave Valley Parade!!
Good luck to the lad but he only had 5 or 6 decent games for us in 3 or 4 years!

With your thoughts maybe a little harsher than how I would say it, I do agree with your comment. Why should we give a send off to players anyway? I would sooner us put our strongest team out, a better chance of winning the game or one with a couple of youngsters and give them experience if the are in our plans for the following season over a player that is leaving. If a player is that bothered to say "bye" to the fans he will stay behind and wave the fans off after the match. It shouldn't be all one way where the fans want to say bye to one of their favourite players, it works both ways.

I thought he was a good player for us, but as he has ended up in none league, I may have over rated him as I do many players that go into obscurity. Forrest, Emmanuel, Muirhead, Penford to name but a couple, all players that could have achieved more than they have. Problem with our squad over the last decade and bit is if we have a player that borders on ok to poor, he can look good in the squads we have had. I wish all the best for Flynn, but I never cheer on clubs based outside of England playing in the English league.

LuvFootball wrote:

neiltherealdeal wrote: Send off, are you joking!? If we gave every average player who is often injured a good send off we'd never leave Valley Parade!! Good luck to the lad but he only had 5 or 6 decent games for us in 3 or 4 years!

With your thoughts maybe a little harsher than how I would say it, I do agree with your comment. Why should we give a send off to players anyway? I would sooner us put our strongest team out, a better chance of winning the game or one with a couple of youngsters and give them experience if the are in our plans for the following season over a player that is leaving. If a player is that bothered to say "bye" to the fans he will stay behind and wave the fans off after the match. It shouldn't be all one way where the fans want to say bye to one of their favourite players, it works both ways. I thought he was a good player for us, but as he has ended up in none league, I may have over rated him as I do many players that go into obscurity. Forrest, Emmanuel, Muirhead, Penford to name but a couple, all players that could have achieved more than they have. Problem with our squad over the last decade and bit is if we have a player that borders on ok to poor, he can look good in the squads we have had. I wish all the best for Flynn, but I never cheer on clubs based outside of England playing in the English league.

Rather a nonsensical posting really. It doesn't stand scrutiny. It would be interesting to see your tainted views on the current crop of players in a years time.

Martin Allen is one of a type of manager, in the same ring as Warnock, Bassett and Fry. Not a good manager, not an astute manager but a niche manager.

The other types are Ferguson, Shankly, Wenger, Paisley,Stein, these are the games scientists/scholars then there is the third type, the merry-go-round men. They usually have a decent one-off success at an unfashionable club and then go on to get ten years employment on the back of this. Parkinson falls into this category.

Martin Allen and his tactical nouse shouldn't hold any fears for us, his side will be big, intimidating and put teams under pressure but so are/will we but with that bit of extra craft.

LuvFootball wrote:

neiltherealdeal wrote:
Send off, are you joking!?
If we gave every average player who is often injured a good send off we'd never leave Valley Parade!!
Good luck to the lad but he only had 5 or 6 decent games for us in 3 or 4 years!

With your thoughts maybe a little harsher than how I would say it, I do agree with your comment. Why should we give a send off to players anyway? I would sooner us put our strongest team out, a better chance of winning the game or one with a couple of youngsters and give them experience if the are in our plans for the following season over a player that is leaving. If a player is that bothered to say "bye" to the fans he will stay behind and wave the fans off after the match. It shouldn't be all one way where the fans want to say bye to one of their favourite players, it works both ways.

I thought he was a good player for us, but as he has ended up in none league, I may have over rated him as I do many players that go into obscurity. Forrest, Emmanuel, Muirhead, Penford to name but a couple, all players that could have achieved more than they have. Problem with our squad over the last decade and bit is if we have a player that borders on ok to poor, he can look good in the squads we have had. I wish all the best for Flynn, but I never cheer on clubs based outside of England playing in the English league.

Well he should've at least been allowed in the Lap Of "Honour"

Prisoner Cell Block A wrote:
Martin Allen is one of a type of manager, in the same ring as Warnock, Bassett and Fry. Not a good manager, not an astute manager but a niche manager.

The other types are Ferguson, Shankly, Wenger, Paisley,Stein, these are the games scientists/scholars then there is the third type, the merry-go-round men. They usually have a decent one-off success at an unfashionable club and then go on to get ten years employment on the back of this. Parkinson falls into this category.

Martin Allen and his tactical nouse shouldn't hold any fears for us, his side will be big, intimidating and put teams under pressure but so are/will we but with that bit of extra craft.

'Warnock' - Not a good manager, niche manager?? Are you having a laugh, do you seriously believe, Wenger, Ferguson...etc etc woud have got the promotions Warnock and Bassett have on their CV?

Prisoner Cell Block A wrote:
Martin Allen is one of a type of manager, in the same ring as Warnock, Bassett and Fry. Not a good manager, not an astute manager but a niche manager.

The other types are Ferguson, Shankly, Wenger, Paisley,Stein, these are the games scientists/scholars then there is the third type, the merry-go-round men. They usually have a decent one-off success at an unfashionable club and then go on to get ten years employment on the back of this. Parkinson falls into this category.

Martin Allen and his tactical nouse shouldn't hold any fears for us, his side will be big, intimidating and put teams under pressure but so are/will we but with that bit of extra craft.

'Warnock' - Not a good manager, niche manager?? Are you having a laugh, do you seriously believe, Wenger, Ferguson...etc etc woud have got the promotions Warnock and Bassett have on their CV?

He isn't the best proponent of the game and it's more delicate nuances, he is a great motivator and has had some great promotions, he won't this season. This is why I included him in the 'niche section' and not the merry-go round boys, he gets a job done his way. Please keep up.

I seriously believe they would have eclipsed anything he has done if they had been lower league managers as he has been. Not very successful in the top flight is he?

Prisoner Cell Block A wrote:
He isn't the best proponent of the game and it's more delicate nuances, he is a great motivator and has had some great promotions, he won't this season. This is why I included him in the 'niche section' and not the merry-go round boys, he gets a job done his way. Please keep up.

I seriously believe they would have eclipsed anything he has done if they had been lower league managers as he has been. Not very successful in the top flight is he?

"He is a great motivator and has had some great promotions"

"he gets a job done his"

Erm, doesn't this make him a good manager? Warnock could be the first manager to get 3 different clubs promoted into the Premiership. As much as I am not a fan of the guy, I actually think he looks like a woman and wouldn't look out of place from a Les Dawson sketch, he is a good manager and even by your very own admission he has some very good qualities that good managers need.

thebantammenace wrote:

LuvFootball wrote:

neiltherealdeal wrote:
Send off, are you joking!?
If we gave every average player who is often injured a good send off we'd never leave Valley Parade!!
Good luck to the lad but he only had 5 or 6 decent games for us in 3 or 4 years!

With your thoughts maybe a little harsher than how I would say it, I do agree with your comment. Why should we give a send off to players anyway? I would sooner us put our strongest team out, a better chance of winning the game or one with a couple of youngsters and give them experience if the are in our plans for the following season over a player that is leaving. If a player is that bothered to say "bye" to the fans he will stay behind and wave the fans off after the match. It shouldn't be all one way where the fans want to say bye to one of their favourite players, it works both ways.

I thought he was a good player for us, but as he has ended up in none league, I may have over rated him as I do many players that go into obscurity. Forrest, Emmanuel, Muirhead, Penford to name but a couple, all players that could have achieved more than they have. Problem with our squad over the last decade and bit is if we have a player that borders on ok to poor, he can look good in the squads we have had. I wish all the best for Flynn, but I never cheer on clubs based outside of England playing in the English league.

Well he should've at least been allowed in the Lap Of "Honour"

I don't disagree with you one bit, don't get me wrong. But in the final home game of the season, do you think any of our players are denied and not allowed from doing a lap of honour? Nothing stopped Flynn, nothing stopped any of the players from doing so. If they are not in the squad that final game, they only need tell the manager of their intentions for after the match. When I have left jobs in the past, I could have just walked out, but instead showed respect to all the colleagues I worked with and shook hands and said farewells. I agree with your sentiment, but I am sure Flynn was allowed to do a lap of honour, or even sit with the supporters, shake hands outside the ground post match, anything. He had choices there available to him. I am sorry, but he was allowed to say bye, the ones that don't always have excuses. Even if he isn't sure he is staying, he can still do the same and thank supporters for their support doing the same thing.

LuvFootball wrote:

Prisoner Cell Block A wrote:
He isn't the best proponent of the game and it's more delicate nuances, he is a great motivator and has had some great promotions, he won't this season. This is why I included him in the 'niche section' and not the merry-go round boys, he gets a job done his way. Please keep up.

I seriously believe they would have eclipsed anything he has done if they had been lower league managers as he has been. Not very successful in the top flight is he?

"He is a great motivator and has had some great promotions"

"he gets a job done his"

Erm, doesn't this make him a good manager? Warnock could be the first manager to get 3 different clubs promoted into the Premiership. As much as I am not a fan of the guy, I actually think he looks like a woman and wouldn't look out of place from a Les Dawson sketch, he is a good manager and even by your very own admission he has some very good qualities that good managers need.

Not in the league of the aforementioned it doesn't. I haven't said he is a bad manager, I said he has his own ways which very few other managers can. do or would even try to employ. He isn't a scholar of the game in the way Wenger/Stein were and he isn't exactly a failed merry-go-round man either. He is unique in his style, he is to my mind a perfect example of someone who has made a living from the management game but by following his own course.

Martin Allen has done the same but with much less success, Barry Fry was another off-the-cuff type of guy, get his players in for training then send em home to take the family out, hoping this benevolance would improve moral and performance at the weekend.

What I was trying to say at the top of all this was we have nowt to fear from M Allen and his team if we go about our business properly. He isn't a good manager and got a name for himself by being a bit of a coq

What is a 'good' manager? Can a manager be a good manager but not be 'successful'? I think so. How many managers have to overcome 'interference' from their Chairman, a limited budget, a cut in the budget, injuries to the best players or a large numbers of injuries? I think the details of what the managers have had to deal with and change around to try to implement their methods etc needs to be well understood before managers can be considered 'good' or 'bad'. From what I have read about Martin Allen's managerial record he would tick the 'good' manager box for me.

A bit more perspective from the resident analyst. ;)


Jumping ship for a better job, being sacked midway through multiple tenures but having a differing managerial style to the 'norm' he falls into my 'niche' category for me. This category includes good, Warnock, bad, Fry and bonkers, Allen. That is just my opinion.

Prisoner Cell Block A wrote:
A bit more perspective from the resident analyst. ;)


Jumping ship for a better job, being sacked midway through multiple tenures but having a differing managerial style to the 'norm' he falls into my 'niche' category for me. This category includes good, Warnock, bad, Fry and bonkers, Allen. That is just my opinion.

Yep fair enough -although being sacked for not accepting who the Chairmen wants you to sign is maybe acceptable?- I was not agreeing or disagreeing with your opinion PCBA I have a lot of time for your opinions even when mine differ. Just opening up -trying to- a deeper view of how we should judge a manager. Some are lucky, some are not (Petula Clarke!) some times they are the right person for a particular situation, sometimes they definitely are not. Timing is everything.They bring different strengths etc.

I can't think of many managers at City over recent years that I didn't really agree with bringing in. Probably Bryan Robson was the one I least wanted and I had concerns about Stuart due to him not having an experienced 'right hand man' but could fully understand the reasoning behind choosing him.

Appreciated your view on it, as I said more perspective.


Many managerial choices are lucky bag picks. I have a view that a manger gets lucky by being in the right club at the right time, mentioned above, this then allows him to dine on the one off success and hop on and off the merry go round.

Ady Boothroyd, Mick McCarthy, Steve Bruce. I am sure many supporters could do nearly as good a job with the resources the above have had at their disposal.

I will also admit to never wanting to fully manage a team, preferring to coach as you can duck the silt thrown and just work with the players. Managers have all the flack to take. We digress, we'll win tomorrow as M Allen's motivational management will not overcome Phil Parkinson's preparation and thought process.

(fingers firmly crossed)

Prisoner Cell Block A wrote:
Appreciated your view on it, as I said more perspective.


Many managerial choices are lucky bag picks. I have a view that a manger gets lucky by being in the right club at the right time, mentioned above, this then allows him to dine on the one off success and hop on and off the merry go round.

Ady Boothroyd, Mick McCarthy, Steve Bruce. I am sure many supporters could do nearly as good a job with the resources the above have had at their disposal.

I will also admit to never wanting to fully manage a team, preferring to coach as you can duck the silt thrown and just work with the players. Managers have all the flack to take. We digress, we'll win tomorrow as M Allen's motivational management will not overcome Phil Parkinson's preparation and thought process.

(fingers firmly crossed)

I've done both coaching and managing -at amateur level- and really enjoyed the 'power' and responsibility of being able to pick the players, the tactics and the 'morals' -if you like- as to how the team was to go out and perform.

No cheating allowed! I even banned one of my own players for unacceptable conduct towards another player that the referee missed (this was when I managed a youth Team and wanted to influence the players to grow to be not just good footballers but 'good' young men). I like to think he came back to play a wiser and more disciplined young man. He did play at professional level -and still is actually- so I like to think I made a positive contribution towards that.

I have been told that certain players couldn't play, would never be able to play, in certain positions etc but I -and those self same players- proved that they could for example, go from being a half decent full-back to a very effective winger.

It's all about 'conformance to requirements'. All players can improve. They don't have to 'stand out'
just be effective at what they are there to do. 'First be best then be first'. It's all a matter of context of course but I loved it. Loved seeing ALL the players gradually learning to improve themselves little by little and this having a knock-on effect leading to big improvements in the Team. Loved seeing a plan coming to fruition, loved achieving results through other people by treating people with respect, discipline, and time spent on the aim of improving the individual 'knowing'/ expecting confidently, that winning games would follow -and it did. Both at youth level and adult level. Many sleepless nights thinking about who to play who to drop the why's and wherefores and the explaining of the reasons to the players. AND, all this 'pressure' cost ME a small fortune in money and a large fortune in my precious time.

I think professional football managers have one, if not the, best job in the world -and they don't have to knock back overtime for the privilege.

Hey, you got me going there PCBA!

Surely it's about levels when you are talking about the likes of Warnock and Bassett?

They've enjoyed success in the lower league's because it is more about spirit and organisation, but to replicate this in the top division, you need a bit more craft and creativity, which their teams don't posess.

It would be interesting though to see how a Wenger team would cope with the physicality of League 2; would he do as well as someone like Yates did for Cheltenham last season? The jury's out on that one for me.

Also the likes of Wenger and Fergie have always had something that the likes of Bassett and Warnock seldom had; money.

As for Allen, then I think he has a modest managerial record, with the only club he's had any real success at being Brentford.

I was relieved when he didn't become our manager, and is someone who I think has got certain jobs because he has an infectious personality.

Type of guy you would love to have a beer with, but not be your club's manager, and that opinion won't change, irrespective of the result today.

sadly Flynn's illness left him pretty useless on the field and. as a top earner, he had to go. Simple as that.