L’Estrange in rallying call over Bradford Bulls season tickets (From Bradford Telegraph and Argus)

Boxing Day against Castleford it is then ;-)

I agree with the fans, young and old mixing with the players at social events. In the sixties there was a Northern, childrens social club. Think it was 10's to 16's. I can remember drinking orange squash from the Yorkshire cup, in the old club house after Northern beat Hunslet to lift the trophy in 1965, the good old days lol I have been a rugby fan ever since.

nosher wrote:
I agree with the fans, young and old mixing with the players at social events. In the sixties there was a Northern, childrens social club. Think it was 10's to 16's. I can remember drinking orange squash from the Yorkshire cup, in the old club house after Northern beat Hunslet to lift the trophy in 1965, the good old days lol I have been a rugby fan ever since.

I remember that too nosher, which kinda proves the old adage about catching 'em young and keeping 'em. I think Omar's free for under 12s will pay huge dividends for the future especially if combined with a new 'Bulls mania' type marketing initiative. COYBs!

We should reform the supporters club. I have several different enamel badges that belong to myself and my dad, going back to the thirties.

theviking62 wrote:
We should reform the supporters club. I have several different enamel badges that belong to myself and my dad, going back to the thirties.

All for that Viking, who remembers Junior Winston's, where they had their own forum in every match programme?

The future of any organisation is the youth and new blood! How you describe your interaction must relate to hundreds of our supporters today, who were brought to functions by parents and bonded with the club and it's players in a positive way!

The supporters club is that link between Club and Fans alike..A scrum half in essence...(tongue in cheek with that one.).

I would think the Bullbuilder organisation can begin that reformation through the Supporters trust scene, if they have the will and the knowledge. Certainly I can see that our new owners will be 100% behind any initiative like that.

Let's watch the forward plan!

Agree to all above.
I remember when as a child you payed for the first game and then got season ticket for price of next.
Coaches and managers kept in touch with crowds by going round the ground and talking to the spectators.
Lost count of the times old Albert Fearnley used to go to the crowd and geeing them up when Northern were losing to get them cheering on the team.

I remember just after the reformation in 64 they sent free passes out to the schools for the kids. Our PE teacher was a kick and clap fan so he was loathe to give them out, never did like him sad scottish so and so.
In the late 90`s I could get season tickets for my daughters for a fiver I remember.
Get them interested when young should be a normal policy.

Can anyone tell me who the 16 players are who have already signed up. Also does anyone know if they are going to let us know how many season tickets have been sold like they did on the web site last year.

Bfd-til-i-die wrote:
Can anyone tell me who the 16 players are who have already signed up. Also does anyone know if they are going to let us know how many season tickets have been sold like they did on the web site last year.

This was copied from the RFL fans forum: Posted by Martinwildbull.

Don't know how accurate it is: But we can speculate on it's authenticity:

I am sure MartinWB won't object, nor will he claim copyright I hope.

1. Brett Kearney OVERSEAS & NON FED TRAINED 2013 -*with option for 2014
2. Adrian Purtell OVERSEAS & NON FED TRAINED 2014 Cardiac Stent surgery - no duration announced
3. Keith Lulia OVERSEAS & NON FED TRAINED 2013
4. Chev Walker 2012 2013
5. Elliot Kear 2014
6. Jarrot Sammut said to be offered a contract
7. Luke Gale 2013
8. Nick Scruton 2014
9. Heath L'Estrange (c) OVERSEAS & NON FED TRAINED 2014
10. Manase Manuokafoa NON FED TRAINED 2012said to be offered a contract
11.
12. Elliott Whitehead HOME GROWN 2016
13. Jamie Langley HOME GROWN 2013
14. Matt Diskin (c) 2013
15.
16.
17.
18. Shaun Ainscough ???
19. Thomas Olbison HOME GROWN 2014
20. James Donaldson said to be offered a contract
21.
22.
23. Danny Addy HOME GROWN 2012said to be offered a contract
24.
25. Adam O'Brien HOME GROWN 2016
26. John Bateman HOME GROWN 2013
27.
28. Paul Sykes HOME GROWN 2013 On Season Long Loan at Wakefield
29. Michael Platt 2013
30. Liam McAvoy ???
31. Jobe Murphy ???
32. Alex Ball ???
33.Karl Pryce ???
34.Phil Joseph ???

Posted by Beefy1, Scott Murrell, utility player "done deal"

Not Given Squad Numbers
Cain Southernwood ???
Jordan Aitchison 2013 released???
Jonny Payne ???
Jay Rossi 2013 ???


Promising Young SL/loan players:

Gaskell ???
Jack Murphy - WIGAN - Fullback/Winger - scored 1 try in no first team appearances according to sky website stats - grab him!!
Ryan King - WIGAN - Winger -
Dan Lloyd - WARRINGTON - Prop
Adam Swift - ST HELENS - Winger - and stated as full back/stand off on Saints site, so a good squad player
Carl Forster - ST HELENS - Prop
Joe Greenwood - ST HELENS - Prop
Jared Stewart winger
Jamel Chisholm - Leeds carnage - Winger
Rhys Williams OOC wing/centre
Foster Saints wing

Seasoned players to add experience to the mix:

Stuart Fielden ???


Last edited by martinwildbull on Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:12 pm, edited 8 times in total.


Think aitchinson was released last week. Surely only one off manuokafoa/sammut will

Dont think young Jack Murphy did himself any favours last night, uner high kicks, he was as bad as tompkinson lol. He ultimately cost wigan the game. All teams will pepper him in future. He looked OK attacking. Would give fielden a go.

Think Fielden would be a good deal-was well liked by fans before the debacle started and always gave 100%. Was world class prop before his injuries so know what he's capable of.
Would be good for him to get a couple more years of rugby after missing the last 2 through injury and the clock is ticking.
Local lad, no transfefee, no quota-get him signed

Think Fielden would be a good deal-was well liked by fans before the debacle started and always gave 100%. Was world class prop before his injuries so know what he's capable of.
Would be good for him to get a couple more years of rugby after missing the last 2 through injury and the clock is ticking.
Local lad, no transfer fee, no quota-get him signed

Cappa, didn't call your PE teacher, Dawson, did they? As to loan players, that is a sore point with me, so I won't go there. But Hull F C have released three good young players, prop, centre, stand off/ loose forward, all under 25, would be worth asking them what they want to sign. All have good SL experience as well.

theviking62 wrote:
Cappa, didn't call your PE teacher, Dawson, did they? As to loan players, that is a sore point with me, so I won't go there. But Hull F C have released three good young players, prop, centre, stand off/ loose forward, all under 25, would be worth asking them what they want to sign. All have good SL experience as well.

Yep Danny Dawson!!!!

Capabull wrote:

theviking62 wrote:
Cappa, didn't call your PE teacher, Dawson, did they? As to loan players, that is a sore point with me, so I won't go there. But Hull F C have released three good young players, prop, centre, stand off/ loose forward, all under 25, would be worth asking them what they want to sign. All have good SL experience as well.

Yep Danny Dawson!!!!

What school was that ?

Carlton

How many season tickets have you shifted for next season?

Shelfrhino wrote:
How many season tickets have you shifted for next season?

Simpleton

Wipsi wrote:

Shelfrhino wrote:
How many season tickets have you shifted for next season?

Simpleton

Strange number that.

And so it begins. The players pulling on heart strings to try get fans to buy tickets. The call of desperados, get viking to stand outside dreaming of yesteryear and selling enamel badges .

i fully expect us to sell over 6000 adult tickets. This with 3000 paying on the day will give us better home gates than most teams next year. if the team does well & we get some good weather on home days, we'll get over 5000 paying on the day.

A supporters club would be great idea, but would't wait for bullbuilder to organise it. They do a great job raising money for the junior development but they're just too serious& political to have anything to do with something that might be fun!

bradfordbronco wrote:
i fully expect us to sell over 6000 adult tickets. This with 3000 paying on the day will give us better home gates than most teams next year. if the team does well & we get some good weather on home days, we'll get over 5000 paying on the day.

A supporters club would be great idea, but would't wait for bullbuilder to organise it. They do a great job raising money for the junior development but they're just too serious& political to have anything to do with something that might be fun!

Bullbuilder is a serious organisation, yes. Which is why the club and other parties takes Bullbuilder seriously. If it was a "political" organisation, that would not be the case.

Given that a sizeable proportion of the money it raises for the junior development comes from "fun" events organised for fans by Bullbuilder, and there is likely to be very considerably more of this activity going forward, your last comment is somewhat perplexing?

I want an enamel badge its not fair.

bradfordbronco wrote:
i fully expect us to sell over 6000 adult tickets. This with 3000 paying on the day will give us better home gates than most teams next year. if the team does well & we get some good weather on home days, we'll get over 5000 paying on the day.

A supporters club would be great idea, but would't wait for bullbuilder to organise it. They do a great job raising money for the junior development but they're just too serious& political to have anything to do with something that might be fun!

It is clear that you Sir are insane.
Do you really expect those numbers through the gate when you never got it this year at half the price and a more expensive team.
Viking reckoned on up to 9,000 ST's, he must be a loon as well.
I can see Wakefield and HKR getting bigger crowds than you lot.
It looks a bit desperate already with the pleading going on.

Hi Shelfrhino. This season we sold 10,000 with a poor squad & morale down. Over 2000(mostly away fans)paid on the day as we averaged 12000. Next year i reckon we'll sell 6000 & average approx 9,500. If you think these figures are wrong what do YOU expect the figures to be & why the hell do care anyway?

Cappabull, George Dawson, was from Aberdeen, a good friend of my family. Bye the way, I was at Carlton Grammar School in the early 60s. The old one in Bradford, on Manor Row. H B Hodgson was deputy head, Harry Shapiro was Head Teacher. Bob Wickes, Languages, P Grimshaw, Chemistry.

Hi Adeybull. Prehaps political was the wrong word. what i meant was that bullbuilder usually holds several meetings & then issue some long winded statements before acting on anything. They do great job ,as i stated earlier in raising money for the juniors, but didn't think they wanted to become the supporters club. It seems i was wrong, and you have volunteered your group to run the supporters club. Have you asked the other guys yet & what events are you going to hold for the supporters. I can't wait to join!

Come on Shelf Rhino. Give me the figures that you expect. & lets see who right when the season starts.

BTW I'm still waiting for that other clown ,FAKE Mumby to give me his selection & the reasons why they would be better than the Bulls for the 14th spot next year. Dont expect a reply as it takes a bit of thought & more than 2 lines of text!

Its easy to make cheap statements but at least have some form of argument as to why our opinions are incorrect. Dont bother asking questions if you're not going to listen to the answers

theviking62 wrote:
Cappabull, George Dawson, was from Aberdeen, a good friend of my family. Bye the way, I was at Carlton Grammar School in the early 60s. The old one in Bradford, on Manor Row. H B Hodgson was deputy head, Harry Shapiro was Head Teacher. Bob Wickes, Languages, P Grimshaw, Chemistry.

I was there from 62. Harry Horsman was my first form teacher. A real rugby fan at that time was a teacher called Tristram used to take geography I think.

bradfordbronco wrote:
Hi Adeybull. Prehaps political was the wrong word. what i meant was that bullbuilder usually holds several meetings & then issue some long winded statements before acting on anything. They do great job ,as i stated earlier in raising money for the juniors, but didn't think they wanted to become the supporters club. It seems i was wrong, and you have volunteered your group to run the supporters club. Have you asked the other guys yet & what events are you going to hold for the supporters. I can't wait to join!

Maybe another way of putting it would be that we have to make sure we have given due consideration to anything we say, before we issue it? And make sure we can follow up words with deeds?

Don't forget that a supporters' trust is properly regulated and has to comply with a load of rules, and those of us on the board are legally and personally responsible for our actions. Something those involved with an informal grouping or club are not. Probably a good reason why so may people and organisations entrusted us with their donations for the Hardship Fund? So if we have to make sure we do things a bit more formally than an informal grouping, I am sure most people appreciate the reasons why?

I have volunteered no-one for anything. But keep your eyes open over the next few days. We have a lot of great ideas to explore, and some big challenges to decide about. And then we'll have a fair bit hopefully of interest to say.

In the meantime, anyone can join dead easy through the website.

Cappabull, Bob Tristram, lived down by Rigbys Wire Works, did a lot of running, long distance type. taught geography. Harry Horsman, music, was a right nutter, couldn't do with him.

I left to go on, as they say, in 1965. Have great memories of Carlton G S. Odsal Playing Fields, The Giles, cross country course at Horsfall playing fields. Were theses there in your time, Cotton, chemistry, Longbottom, history, Barrett and Tweetie Pie, (J. J Say) English, Lloyd, RE, Wright, chemistry, Bairstow, Hall, woodwork. Doc. Singer, maths. Also, Pickles, maths, got done in later years for fiddling with k****. " Sifta" West, physics.

Hi Adeybull. When did bullbuilder become the supporters trust? Thought you backed away from the idea somewhat when it was put to you that bullbuilder could become the supporters trust.

I want to join the supporters sports & social club NOT bullbilder. They are two separate organisations. Don't see why it should cost me anything to join, would rather just pay to take part in the organised events

Anyway look forward to hearing your plans. It would be great if we could have events (and the bar open)in the coral stand every night of the week.

Think we could have quiz nights. Invite local junior clubs to train on the pitch,with their parents watching from the stand, with beer in hand. We could hold other sports on different nights. Athletics, Cycling, Archery. The list is endless. We could work with one of the big fitness organisations and let them build a gym at odsal, open to the public but with the benefit of the players being able to use free of charge.

The priority is to make use of the facilities & make the supporters feel part of the club again

Shelfrhino. Have you come up with that figure yet? You also stated that Wakefield & Hull KR will get bigger crowds than us. Therefore you must have views on all three clubs to make such a statement. Please let us know what you think they will be
Bulls...?
Hull KR...?
Wakefield....?
Answers to reach us sometime on Monday please

bradfordbronco wrote:
Hi Adeybull. When did bullbuilder become the supporters trust? Thought you backed away from the idea somewhat when it was put to you that bullbuilder could become the supporters trust.

I want to join the supporters sports & social club NOT bullbilder. They are two separate organisations. Don't see why it should cost me anything to join, would rather just pay to take part in the organised events

Anyway look forward to hearing your plans. It would be great if we could have events (and the bar open)in the coral stand every night of the week.

Think we could have quiz nights. Invite local junior clubs to train on the pitch,with their parents watching from the stand, with beer in hand. We could hold other sports on different nights. Athletics, Cycling, Archery. The list is endless. We could work with one of the big fitness organisations and let them build a gym at odsal, open to the public but with the benefit of the players being able to use free of charge.

The priority is to make use of the facilities & make the supporters feel part of the club again

I think you and adey are becoming a little thrown by the "Supporters Club" v "Supporters Trust".
Bullbuider is in essence a Supporters Trust with aims and objectives not dissimilar to the concept of a supporters club.
The main difference is down to semantics. ie Bullbuilder is run,
I believe as a type of workers cooperative with a board of Trustees, I also believe that some members came on board that had the notion to create a Supporters Trust, The objectives are the same for both types of organisation, but the methodology may be different, that's all.
So I can see that given the will a Supporters Group/Association with a seperate constitution could be set up as an unincorporated charitable organisation to run the functions and the fun sessions, the profit made is specifically for ancillary items for the club.
It's a thought at this moment, but one which would involve a slightly different approach, but as the saying goes it's far better to sing from the same hymn sheet. ie one voice 100 times saying the same thing, beats just one voice!

"Bullbuilder" is the public-facing name of The Bradford Rugby League Supporters Society Limited.

It is an established supporters' trust. Always has been, since its incorporation under the Industrial and Provident Societies Acts two and a half years ago.

Supporters' Trusts, including ours, are sponsored and are effectively under the supervision of Supporters Direct, of whom our trust is a member. We have to have full and comprehensive "Rules" - equivilent to the Articles of Association of a limited company - and a detailed and highly-democratic set of policies on elections and other areas of corporate governance.

And I sure know it - I wrote or tailored a fair chunk of them! What a
pants job...would not wish that on (almost) anyone. Maybe something I could condemn most of our former major shareholders to doing for a few years...?

We HAVE to comply with all this lot, as to fail to do so would not only breach our undertakings to Supporters Direct, but where relevant would be in breach of legislation.

All the board members are directors, with similar responsibilities to directors under the Companies Act. We can be prosecuted if we fail to comply with the legislation. In fact, all sorts of nasty things can be done to us, although at least having to watch Huddersfield is not one of them...

The accounts have to be either audited or subject to independent financial examination - by an external qualified accountant or equivilent. And guess who prepares the accounts? Wrong! One of my colleagues on the board does that, and a sterling job he does too.

Supporters' trusts are co-operative type organisations, every member having a share in the trust. Co- operative organisations are registered under the same legislation.

And we are also subject to regulation by the financial services authority.

THIS is why we may be seen by some as a "serious" organisation, and why we may not always be able to react immediately to events, considering our position first instead of risking "knee-jerk" reactions that we may regret later.

The club want us to raise funds to help finance the academy. That has always been our primary remit, modelled very much on how the Warrington trust operates. That remit takes on considerably more significance in the current funding climate, and we will be reporting back on what we need to do shortly. The more people that can contribute to that activity the better, in whatever way works best for everyone. Key thing is to make sure we bring through the next generation of Batemans and Whiteheads.

Bullbuilder can also act as a conduit between the fans and the club. It is one of the primary "objects" in our constitution, as it is for all supporters' trusts. And, because of all the legal and formal stuff I outlined earlier, starts with considerable credibility - not least because the club knows we have our own rules we have to follow, and are legally responsible for what we say or do.

In that respect, you could draw some parallels between BB and a union, where you join a formal and properly-constitued organisation that can speak with a voice on behalf of its members. And, of course, you would not expect to join a union without paying a nominal subscription. In our case it is £10 per annum or less.

When I helped set up and run BISA, the last independent supporters' association, the anual membership cost £5. And, like with Bullbuilder, you got that back pretty well straight away by free entry to events.

And BB does not have to be THE coinduit. It does not set itself up to be such, nor would it be healthy for it to be such. Far from it. What we CAN do is be a relatively serious conduit, respected by the club and wider bodies and people across the game. And one that, being formally incorporated, people know will endure. And we can be a broad church - as broad as our members want it to be.

The board are all volunteers, very busy in their own lives. Some own their own businesses or manage businesses, each has some particular expertise or skillset that the trust needs. Most are elected; some - two at present, of which I am one - are "co-opted" on because of their particular skill set. Readers of my posts will fully appreciate I was not co-opted on because of my rugby knowledge and skills...!

And all can be voted out by the members. Its about as democratic an organisation as you can get - and hardly surprising given that supporters' trusts grew out of the co-operative movement.

Strangely enough, we have struggled to fill all the available places on the board. Whether it is because people realise just how much work thgere is to do, or how your freedom to do and say as you want is significantly circumscribed once you take on the repsonsibility, who knows? And anyway, "board" is an empty title. Anyone who helps out has a say in what we are doing. We just need more of them!

Anyway, that's a bit of background that might answer a few questions. And maybe provoke a few more. FWIW, my own view is that a broad church representing as many fans as possible, that enables each to use BB for the way that suits him or her best (some by engagement with the club, some purely social, some for the academy...whatever) is the way forward.

Because what ultimately matters is that we collectively do what we can to help the club survive and prosper. Each in whatever way works best for us?

bradfordbronco wrote:
Shelfrhino. Have you come up with that figure yet? You also stated that Wakefield & Hull KR will get bigger crowds than us. Therefore you must have views on all three clubs to make such a statement. Please let us know what you think they will be
Bulls...?
Hull KR...?
Wakefield....?
Answers to reach us sometime on Monday please

If you really want my opinion, and it is only an opinion, I would guess you'll sell 5,000 full price ST's, this is based on what I perceive to be your core die hard support, as far as the pay on the day lot go, it will depend on the teams performance's.
I think Wakefield are hoping to shift around 4/5 thousand, and again overall attendance will be performance related,
If the season just gone is anything to go by for Wakefield, then things could be quite rosy for them.

HKR normally sell around 6/7 thousand ST's are far as I know, and poorer recruitment for the season ahead may take it's toll.

Hope this meets with your approval, you did ask. As I say, it's only my opinion, and means nowt to nobody but me really, but I have a feeling I won't be far off with my guess work.

Shelfrhino wrote:

bradfordbronco wrote:
Shelfrhino. Have you come up with that figure yet? You also stated that Wakefield & Hull KR will get bigger crowds than us. Therefore you must have views on all three clubs to make such a statement. Please let us know what you think they will be
Bulls...?
Hull KR...?
Wakefield....?
Answers to reach us sometime on Monday please

If you really want my opinion, and it is only an opinion, I would guess you'll sell 5,000 full price ST's, this is based on what I perceive to be your core die hard support, as far as the pay on the day lot go, it will depend on the teams performance's.
I think Wakefield are hoping to shift around 4/5 thousand, and again overall attendance will be performance related,
If the season just gone is anything to go by for Wakefield, then things could be quite rosy for them.

HKR normally sell around 6/7 thousand ST's are far as I know, and poorer recruitment for the season ahead may take it's toll.

Hope this meets with your approval, you did ask. As I say, it's only my opinion, and means nowt to nobody but me really, but I have a feeling I won't be far off with my guess work.

I agree with your figures but I think Hull KR`s figures are optomistic, I think they would be over the moon to sell so many. The last time I read about them they were delaying sales while the Directors had a conflab to sort out their financial situation.

theviking62 wrote:
Cappabull, Bob Tristram, lived down by Rigbys Wire Works, did a lot of running, long distance type. taught geography. Harry Horsman, music, was a right nutter, couldn't do with him.

I left to go on, as they say, in 1965. Have great memories of Carlton G S. Odsal Playing Fields, The Giles, cross country course at Horsfall playing fields. Were theses there in your time, Cotton, chemistry, Longbottom, history, Barrett and Tweetie Pie, (J. J Say) English, Lloyd, RE, Wright, chemistry, Bairstow, Hall, woodwork. Doc. Singer, maths. Also, Pickles, maths, got done in later years for fiddling with k****. " Sifta" West, physics.

We used to go to Sedbergh playing fields and Horsfall.
Main teachers I remember as well as some of the ones listed by you (left in 67 so dementia is kicking in) Dieter Smith German, Walsh History, Jack Widdop science.A lanky one called Pete Denbigh who tried to teach Science but could not control us, Chinny Evans (a right so and so) taught Art and Kelvyn English. Pickles taught me,

My god just when you thought viking aka capabull could not get more boring he starts a conversation with himself and mentions about how one of his teachers was locked up, no wonder he is so bitter. Is this a rugby forum or this is your life viking ?

Come on you boring so &sos answer my comical posts, it`s boring sat here at the keyboard all day on my own.

Can you hear the rattling. As I keep saying " empty vessels make the most noise "

Can you hear the rattling. As I keep saying " empty vessels make the most noise "

Thanks Shelfrhino. You thought i was 'insane' for thinking we will sell 6000 season tickets, then you state you think we'll sell 5000. Don't think we're actually that far apart & only time will tell who is correct. Think your about right with the Wakefield figures & slightly over with the HullKR figures.

Adeybull. I think you do a great job . Its just the way you come across to me. Your statement only echos what i was saying. Its all so serious & long winded. Think you need someone to grab hold of your organisation & be the public face for it. Your're correct the organisation does need to run correctly within the rules & i trust your guys to do that. The thing is we dont want to hear all the lawyer/accountant drivel. We just want the information in 'fan friendley' Manner.

bradfordbronco wrote:
Thanks Shelfrhino. You thought i was 'insane' for thinking we will sell 6000 season tickets, then you state you think we'll sell 5000. Don't think we're actually that far apart & only time will tell who is correct. Think your about right with the Wakefield figures & slightly over with the HullKR figures.

Adeybull. I think you do a great job . Its just the way you come across to me. Your statement only echos what i was saying. Its all so serious & long winded. Think you need someone to grab hold of your organisation & be the public face for it. Your're correct the organisation does need to run correctly within the rules & i trust your guys to do that. The thing is we dont want to hear all the lawyer/accountant drivel. We just want the information in 'fan friendley' Manner.

One man's drivel may be another man's information though? Some people may not want to hear it, some might? Some people might think they speak for all the fans, so might some others (and neither would be right) - might they not?

So maybe let's be a bit less free with the "we" when you are expressing an opinion of yourself and your friends? What I posted may have been "long-winded" in your view, but it was factual, and certainly not "drivel". You can see plenty of examples of genuine drivel in the spoutings of the trolls on here, and I would ask you please not to toss insults like that around? I did not deserve that.

In any case, I do not hold the media/PR/communicati
on brief for Bullbuilder nor do I profess to speak for Bullbuilder unless I specifically say so. I merely respond to posts on some internet forums, from time to time and where I think I can usefully contribute to the debate, in a personal capacity.

That said, I think you make a fair point about communication needs to be tailored to include all constituencies of supporters, including even those who are not interested in what the see as "drivel". This is something we are looking at to see how we can develop, and all constructive input is welcome and appreciated.

Adeybull wrote:
"Bullbuilder" is the public-facing name of The Bradford Rugby League Supporters Society Limited.

It is an established supporters' trust. Always has been, since its incorporation under the Industrial and Provident Societies Acts two and a half years ago.

Supporters' Trusts, including ours, are sponsored and are effectively under the supervision of Supporters Direct, of whom our trust is a member. We have to have full and comprehensive "Rules" - equivilent to the Articles of Association of a limited company - and a detailed and highly-democratic set of policies on elections and other areas of corporate governance.

And I sure know it - I wrote or tailored a fair chunk of them! What a
pants job...would not wish that on (almost) anyone. Maybe something I could condemn most of our former major shareholders to doing for a few years...?

We HAVE to comply with all this lot, as to fail to do so would not only breach our undertakings to Supporters Direct, but where relevant would be in breach of legislation.

All the board members are directors, with similar responsibilities to directors under the Companies Act. We can be prosecuted if we fail to comply with the legislation. In fact, all sorts of nasty things can be done to us, although at least having to watch Huddersfield is not one of them...

The accounts have to be either audited or subject to independent financial examination - by an external qualified accountant or equivilent. And guess who prepares the accounts? Wrong! One of my colleagues on the board does that, and a sterling job he does too.

Supporters' trusts are co-operative type organisations, every member having a share in the trust. Co- operative organisations are registered under the same legislation.

And we are also subject to regulation by the financial services authority.

THIS is why we may be seen by some as a "serious" organisation, and why we may not always be able to react immediately to events, considering our position first instead of risking "knee-jerk" reactions that we may regret later.

The club want us to raise funds to help finance the academy. That has always been our primary remit, modelled very much on how the Warrington trust operates. That remit takes on considerably more significance in the current funding climate, and we will be reporting back on what we need to do shortly. The more people that can contribute to that activity the better, in whatever way works best for everyone. Key thing is to make sure we bring through the next generation of Batemans and Whiteheads.

Bullbuilder can also act as a conduit between the fans and the club. It is one of the primary "objects" in our constitution, as it is for all supporters' trusts. And, because of all the legal and formal stuff I outlined earlier, starts with considerable credibility - not least because the club knows we have our own rules we have to follow, and are legally responsible for what we say or do.

In that respect, you could draw some parallels between BB and a union, where you join a formal and properly-constitued organisation that can speak with a voice on behalf of its members. And, of course, you would not expect to join a union without paying a nominal subscription. In our case it is £10 per annum or less.

When I helped set up and run BISA, the last independent supporters' association, the anual membership cost £5. And, like with Bullbuilder, you got that back pretty well straight away by free entry to events.

And BB does not have to be THE coinduit. It does not set itself up to be such, nor would it be healthy for it to be such. Far from it. What we CAN do is be a relatively serious conduit, respected by the club and wider bodies and people across the game. And one that, being formally incorporated, people know will endure. And we can be a broad church - as broad as our members want it to be.

The board are all volunteers, very busy in their own lives. Some own their own businesses or manage businesses, each has some particular expertise or skillset that the trust needs. Most are elected; some - two at present, of which I am one - are "co-opted" on because of their particular skill set. Readers of my posts will fully appreciate I was not co-opted on because of my rugby knowledge and skills...!

And all can be voted out by the members. Its about as democratic an organisation as you can get - and hardly surprising given that supporters' trusts grew out of the co-operative movement.

Strangely enough, we have struggled to fill all the available places on the board. Whether it is because people realise just how much work thgere is to do, or how your freedom to do and say as you want is significantly circumscribed once you take on the repsonsibility, who knows? And anyway, "board" is an empty title. Anyone who helps out has a say in what we are doing. We just need more of them!

Anyway, that's a bit of background that might answer a few questions. And maybe provoke a few more. FWIW, my own view is that a broad church representing as many fans as possible, that enables each to use BB for the way that suits him or her best (some by engagement with the club, some purely social, some for the academy...whatever) is the way forward.

Because what ultimately matters is that we collectively do what we can to help the club survive and prosper. Each in whatever way works best for us?

Thanks Adey much obliged, that answers all my questions.

As far as a supporters association/club goes, it would be beneficial to begin a cross over link to Bullbuider where members are joined at the hip in a logistical sense, but without the same constraints as BB?

They would have their own constitution and committee and be a charitable organisation, but unincorporated. Which takes away all the formality that BB have to adhere to. The amount of money raised in the normal course of their activities is then for general club welfare reasons, and expenses for setting up social functions on a not for profit basis.
The problems you have with the BB board is endemic to all charitable organisations and committees..usually you have the top 4 people who organise and do a lot of the work.

So for a supporters club to be successful you need the additional people and the set up. Which needs to be sanctioned by the Club.

Hope we have managed to get the message over to everyone who may wish to go down this route.

I understand the club are going to organise a christmas party for our younger supporters? This used to be the function of the supporters club in the 90s As an example of the work a supporters club does, or can do.

Thanks Again,

Regards

Shelfrhino wrote:

bradfordbronco wrote:
Shelfrhino. Have you come up with that figure yet? You also stated that Wakefield & Hull KR will get bigger crowds than us. Therefore you must have views on all three clubs to make such a statement. Please let us know what you think they will be
Bulls...?
Hull KR...?
Wakefield....?
Answers to reach us sometime on Monday please

If you really want my opinion, and it is only an opinion, I would guess you'll sell 5,000 full price ST's, this is based on what I perceive to be your core die hard support, as far as the pay on the day lot go, it will depend on the teams performance's.
I think Wakefield are hoping to shift around 4/5 thousand, and again overall attendance will be performance related,
If the season just gone is anything to go by for Wakefield, then things could be quite rosy for them.

HKR normally sell around 6/7 thousand ST's are far as I know, and poorer recruitment for the season ahead may take it's toll.

Hope this meets with your approval, you did ask. As I say, it's only my opinion, and means nowt to nobody but me really, but I have a feeling I won't be far off with my guess work.

As far as the opinion goes, obviously I hope the 5000 is only the essential figure with probable at the 7000 mark, (Desireable is obviously 10k and above)

All clubs need to maximise the Season ticket sales, and Leeds are the yardstick in Yorkshire at the moment.

We can only hope that collectively all our teams do well.

Good to see that you do have a reasonable and debateable opinion.

Viking my new wardrobe has arrived so if you and Sheffield want come around for a cuppa to see if its good enough just tell me time and place.

Rattle, rattle, rattle, of the obscene type.

bradfordbronco wrote:
Thanks Shelfrhino. You thought i was 'insane' for thinking we will sell 6000 season tickets, then you state you think we'll sell 5000. Don't think we're actually that far apart & only time will tell who is correct. Think your about right with the Wakefield figures & slightly over with the HullKR figures. Adeybull. I think you do a great job . Its just the way you come across to me. Your statement only echos what i was saying. Its all so serious & long winded. Think you need someone to grab hold of your organisation & be the public face for it. Your're correct the organisation does need to run correctly within the rules & i trust your guys to do that. The thing is we dont want to hear all the lawyer/accountant drivel. We just want the information in 'fan friendley' Manner.

It was the 5,000 paying walk ups on top of the free kids and " over 6,000" ST's that lead to the insane comment.

I said 3,500 paying on the day, which also included away fans & if we were doing really well on the pitch & had good weather then we might get 5,000 paying on the day. Last season we shifted 10,000 tickets so the pay on the day was only an average of 2,500 over the season. Take the leeds gate out of the equation & it was prob about 1,000 per game. Next season if we only sell 6,000 season tickets then the walk up on the day will be greater.

Unless you can guarantee you can get to more than 10 games then you will just pay on the day instead of buying a season ticket. Last year you only had to go to 4- 5 games to make it wothwhile buying a season ticket.

Anyway time will tell who is nearest in their estimation