You're not fit to referee! Bradford City chief Lawn blasts 'out of shape' officials (From Bradford Telegraph and Argus)

Tierney and mattherson are just 2 I can name who as bad as they come

Good to have Branston back with us,similar player to Dean Windass,he can get the dressing room fired up.

The Laws of the Game are the same whether the crowd is 2000 or 70000. The assesors monitor how the ref applies the Laws of the game. If prem league managers are complining about refs, and they get the 'elite' refs, -who. presumably keep up with play- then what is the complaint there?

Of course you very rarely hear managers complaining about molly cuddled players trying to 'influence' the ref in order to fool him into a wrong decision. It's called cheating, and its completely different to making a mistake.

Maybe it's also very difficult to keep up with play when the last line of defence regularly hoofs 60 yd 'passes' to their forwards only for the other sides defenders to repeat that action. Maybe thats why a lot of league two teams play in league two? But i still don't recall refs being 50 yds away from play, never mind on a regular? basis. They are human, they just make wrong decisions now and again that get highlighted.

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Oh Dear !! Pot calling the kettle black!!
Mr. Lawn is Obese and Diabetic. Could not officiate at any football match, at any level. Plus I suspect is not totally 'Au Fait' with the rules of the game, and does not possess one iota of the diplomacy needed, from the joint Chairman of a Football Club.
*
Does Mr. Lawn realise what he has said now for publication. This article will go straight to the Referees Association. It follows that for the remainder of this Season, the Referees and Assessors attending City Home matches will be angered; More likely to award further decisions, that will not be at all favourable, or helpful, to City.
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The Club have already officially complained about a referee, earlier in the Season. Does it occur to Mr. Lawn that since that complaint, there have been some very contentious decisions against City; Both at Home and Away.
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I fear for what is going to happen now for the remaining matches this Season. Especially as we are still in a potential relegation position.
*

own goal in my opinion by LAWN: CRITICISE REFEREES AND THEIR ASSISTANTS (EASIER TO SAY LINESMEN) may stop giving us some of the dubious decisions which have gone our way.

Lawn is clearly looking at the Bristol Rovers game: he was way behind Reid when that penalty should have been given

"Linesmen/women" are now entitled 'Assistant Referees'. Because there are officials of both sexes.
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I would still like to see more action from 'Assistant Referees' during a match. The referee should consult much more with them, they should be much more involved in decisions, and off the ball incidents.
*

Was it Don Revie that used to say...."look after the officials and they'll look after you"....well we must treat them really bad down at the Valley.
I can only assume that we leave a turd in their shoe or something....and if we don't....it's about bloody well time started!

Mark Lawn makes some very valid points here but like Freddy says, this could quite possibly go against us.

Lonnie does too about defenders hoofing to the opposition defenders haha.....

Maybe the level a ref starts his trade should go on average attendance at the ground the fixture will take place rather then the actual league the fixture belongs to.

Pot
Kettle
Black
!!!!!

Freddy wrote:
*
Oh Dear !! Pot calling the kettle black!!
Mr. Lawn is Obese and Diabetic. Could not officiate at any football match, at any level. Plus I suspect is not totally 'Au Fait' with the rules of the game, and does not possess one iota of the diplomacy needed, from the joint Chairman of a Football Club.
*
Does Mr. Lawn realise what he has said now for publication. This article will go straight to the Referees Association. It follows that for the remainder of this Season, the Referees and Assessors attending City Home matches will be angered; More likely to award further decisions, that will not be at all favourable, or helpful, to City.
*
The Club have already officially complained about a referee, earlier in the Season. Does it occur to Mr. Lawn that since that complaint, there have been some very contentious decisions against City; Both at Home and Away.
*
I fear for what is going to happen now for the remaining matches this Season. Especially as we are still in a potential relegation position.
*

So basically you are saying that because Bradford City have complained, the football league are telling referees to go against us ! lawn is right to speak up, if more clubs did the same we might get somewhere, they are human and make mistakes thats true, but if clubs and managers were more honest and speak up against wrongs even if they benefit from it something may be done, but i doubt it, its only league two, who cares !!!!

silverbantam wrote:
Pot
Kettle
Black
!!!!!

But lawns not a referee is he, what has HIS fitness to do with it ? he is right to speak up, if only more would do the same.

Freddy, you are a tool!!! That is the most stupid comparison i've ever heard. What Lawn has said is bang right, we get bummed by officials week in and week out. The 'Even itself out by the end of the season is b******s! Look at all our red cards this season (about 5). You could argue that none of them were red cards. I'm glad someone at our club has got the balls to speak up and tell what is in my mind the truth, good on you Mark!

Anyone noticed that the majority of the time the referees assistant doesnt even put their flag up to siganl who has won a throw until they see which way the ref points?? If youn haven't, then watch em its ridiculous.

Under Taylor I watched that more then the football, it was more interesting :-)

Freddy wrote:
*
Oh Dear !! Pot calling the kettle black!!
Mr. Lawn is Obese and Diabetic. Could not officiate at any football match, at any level. Plus I suspect is not totally 'Au Fait' with the rules of the game, and does not possess one iota of the diplomacy needed, from the joint Chairman of a Football Club.
*
Does Mr. Lawn realise what he has said now for publication. This article will go straight to the Referees Association. It follows that for the remainder of this Season, the Referees and Assessors attending City Home matches will be angered; More likely to award further decisions, that will not be at all favourable, or helpful, to City.
*
The Club have already officially complained about a referee, earlier in the Season. Does it occur to Mr. Lawn that since that complaint, there have been some very contentious decisions against City; Both at Home and Away.
*
I fear for what is going to happen now for the remaining matches this Season. Especially as we are still in a potential relegation position.
*

Mark says it how it is? he,s that sort of fellow.
He does have some valid points to make .

Mark Lawn is quite right. I feel there is an issue against city's former premier league status and its crowds that influences referees performances. It has often been said we are other teams 'cup final' as we are perceived to be a big club in league 2 and I think referees side with 'david' rather than goliath when making decisions. Flip it the other way in our cup games generally we have a better outcome as the roles are reversed.
I don't totally agree with going public, as the referees won't like it and i'm not confident they will improve the quality of decision making. Perhaps private dialogue has occured and failed? It does not seem to get better - maybe the fans and the T&A should also complain/highlight poor refs but also highlight good ones. We are customers of the game and simply want able, fair and objective referees.

HOLD THE BACK PAGE!!..............
.............Mark Lawn Gets it Wrong..AGAIN SHOCK!!

The dodge penalty against Bristol Rovers, The goal that never was against Rotherham last season which went a long way to keeping us up, The opportunity to grab a draw with a dodgy penalty against Rotherham this season, lets be honest we have had dodgy decisions against us but we have benefited from a fair few too.
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The standard of Refereing is poor, but we are in a poor league, we can argue that the football we see is poor also but just like the best players won't play in this league, never will the best officials be availible either.
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Well I guess we need to blame someone for another year in the basement league.

'Thee Voice of Reason' you have come up with one maybe 2 dodgy decisions this season where i could name nearly 10 against so your point doesn't hold water. As for 'Shaun from Richmond' i reckon you haven't got a job and play on your X-Box all night trying to think of who you can annoy tomorrow. You and Freddy should arrange a night out, i bet it would be a right laugh. Shame i'm re-winding some black tapes that night.

neiltherealdeal wrote:
'Thee Voice of Reason' you have come up with one maybe 2 dodgy decisions this season where i could name nearly 10 against so your point doesn't hold water. As for 'Shaun from Richmond' i reckon you haven't got a job and play on your X-Box all night trying to think of who you can annoy tomorrow. You and Freddy should arrange a night out, i bet it would be a right laugh. Shame i'm re-winding some black tapes that night.

Name your 10, I named 3 because I only 1 dodgy decision was mentione in the story above.
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What about last seasons game against Stockport, they had 2 men sent off, a perfectly good goal disallowed and we scored about 5min into injury time. If I were them I'd be a little cheesed off at those decisions.

Have I miised something here? People above seem to be suggesting that Mark Lawn is a ref whne saying pot calling kettle.
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Refs at this level are very bad....FACT. So why not highlight the fact. Straight we can think of the 2 reds given to Davies, the red given to Syers, Kozluk's red, Pen not given to Reid.....and thats not even thinking about it. I accept the 2 pens we got given on non fouls on Devitt but the reds given to Davies & Syers meant we lost 2 of our best players for 10 games in total.

I wouldn't worry about refs not up to working in front of 10,000 crowds Mr Lawn because with no reduced ticket prices next year they will only have to perform in front of 2 or 3 as your FA cup crowd proved. Mind you wish papa Smurf would try reduce prices a bit we might even fill his white elephant of an east stand.

gspot01 wrote:
Have I miised something here? People above seem to be suggesting that Mark Lawn is a ref whne saying pot calling kettle. . Refs at this level are very bad....FACT. So why not highlight the fact. Straight we can think of the 2 reds given to Davies, the red given to Syers, Kozluk's red, Pen not given to Reid.....and thats not even thinking about it. I accept the 2 pens we got given on non fouls on Devitt but the reds given to Davies & Syers meant we lost 2 of our best players for 10 games in total.

Why would slagging the refereeing off at this level help our cause though?
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If I were a league 2 referee and I had seen a league 2 club slagging me and all my collegues off I doubt I would be too pleased about it.
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Regarding the decisions, the point I was making is that there are times when the Ref's have given strange decisions, I know as I saw them like everyone else. The Shrewbury handball for their goal, Syers sending off, but in the flip side we would have to complain about the goal that never was against Rotherham last season which gained us 2 points and the 3 points off Stockport that weren't deserved due to the ref playing in claret and amber.
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We are on the end of some shocking decision but we are also on the good end of some too. As for 3 of the examples you give above they were away from home, I thought the arguement was based on refereeing infront of 10k+.

Capello resigned, Redknapp cleared, which means the heirachy must be pretty well cheesed off this week and looking for revenge. Come on down Mark Lawn revenge is sweet. Moving on may i suggest(again) that any free weekends due to internationals could benefit all if referees were to officiate in the bottom two divisions, grass roots and learning curves come to mind.

Well Mr. Lawn - I hope that you are going to tell the people who matter at the FA and not just spout off in the T&A?

For once i agree with Mark lawn. The ref's are not good enough and the decisions that are wrong are too many to name. It hasn't evened itself out either. I said the same when Stuart was in charge that i think the ref goes against the big crowd to just prove a point. If you don't speak up nobody can hear the case so i say well done Mark for championing our cause

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:

neiltherealdeal wrote: 'Thee Voice of Reason' you have come up with one maybe 2 dodgy decisions this season where i could name nearly 10 against so your point doesn't hold water. As for 'Shaun from Richmond' i reckon you haven't got a job and play on your X-Box all night trying to think of who you can annoy tomorrow. You and Freddy should arrange a night out, i bet it would be a right laugh. Shame i'm re-winding some black tapes that night.

Name your 10, I named 3 because I only 1 dodgy decision was mentione in the story above. . What about last seasons game against Stockport, they had 2 men sent off, a perfectly good goal disallowed and we scored about 5min into injury time. If I were them I'd be a little cheesed off at those decisions.

Hows your nearly 10 list coming along?
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Remember it's because of refereeing infront of 10k+ that was sited as the example by Mr Lawn so away games don't count.

He has come out with what were all thinking.

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:

gspot01 wrote: Have I miised something here? People above seem to be suggesting that Mark Lawn is a ref whne saying pot calling kettle. . Refs at this level are very bad....FACT. So why not highlight the fact. Straight we can think of the 2 reds given to Davies, the red given to Syers, Kozluk's red, Pen not given to Reid.....and thats not even thinking about it. I accept the 2 pens we got given on non fouls on Devitt but the reds given to Davies & Syers meant we lost 2 of our best players for 10 games in total.

Why would slagging the refereeing off at this level help our cause though? . If I were a league 2 referee and I had seen a league 2 club slagging me and all my collegues off I doubt I would be too pleased about it. . Regarding the decisions, the point I was making is that there are times when the Ref's have given strange decisions, I know as I saw them like everyone else. The Shrewbury handball for their goal, Syers sending off, but in the flip side we would have to complain about the goal that never was against Rotherham last season which gained us 2 points and the 3 points off Stockport that weren't deserved due to the ref playing in claret and amber. . We are on the end of some shocking decision but we are also on the good end of some too. As for 3 of the examples you give above they were away from home, I thought the arguement was based on refereeing infront of 10k+.

We don't get a 'FEW' decisions for and against.We get 'LOADS' against us and very,very 'FEW' for us.

Some games me and the rest of the crowd can see at least 10 bad decisions per game.
Mainly handballs and offsides....

Handball-not given
Handball-not given
Offside-not given
Foul-not given
Handball-not given
Offside-not given
Foul-given
Handball-not given...

^ Typical routine of decisions by referees and their assistants in our division.

Mark Lawns right to speak out!

Funny how a 'big crowd' didn't stop Leeds from getting out of the division above, did it?
Home or away they did the business by getting at teams, playing with desire and passion and making sure that they got the three points.
No way am I a Leeds fan but cannot help but notice.
Just sayin' like.

Freddy wrote:
* Oh Dear !! Pot calling the kettle black!! Mr. Lawn is Obese and Diabetic. Could not officiate at any football match, at any level. Plus I suspect is not totally 'Au Fait' with the rules of the game, and does not possess one iota of the diplomacy needed, from the joint Chairman of a Football Club. * Does Mr. Lawn realise what he has said now for publication. This article will go straight to the Referees Association. It follows that for the remainder of this Season, the Referees and Assessors attending City Home matches will be angered; More likely to award further decisions, that will not be at all favourable, or helpful, to City. * The Club have already officially complained about a referee, earlier in the Season. Does it occur to Mr. Lawn that since that complaint, there have been some very contentious decisions against City; Both at Home and Away. * I fear for what is going to happen now for the remaining matches this Season. Especially as we are still in a potential relegation position. *

What's Mark Lawn being unable to referee a match got to do with anything???

If you read the article properly, he says some officials are AS or MORE unfit than himself.Never any mention of him refereeing or doing a better job.

Danstarr69 wrote:

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:

gspot01 wrote: Have I miised something here? People above seem to be suggesting that Mark Lawn is a ref whne saying pot calling kettle. . Refs at this level are very bad....FACT. So why not highlight the fact. Straight we can think of the 2 reds given to Davies, the red given to Syers, Kozluk's red, Pen not given to Reid.....and thats not even thinking about it. I accept the 2 pens we got given on non fouls on Devitt but the reds given to Davies & Syers meant we lost 2 of our best players for 10 games in total.

Why would slagging the refereeing off at this level help our cause though? . If I were a league 2 referee and I had seen a league 2 club slagging me and all my collegues off I doubt I would be too pleased about it. . Regarding the decisions, the point I was making is that there are times when the Ref's have given strange decisions, I know as I saw them like everyone else. The Shrewbury handball for their goal, Syers sending off, but in the flip side we would have to complain about the goal that never was against Rotherham last season which gained us 2 points and the 3 points off Stockport that weren't deserved due to the ref playing in claret and amber. . We are on the end of some shocking decision but we are also on the good end of some too. As for 3 of the examples you give above they were away from home, I thought the arguement was based on refereeing infront of 10k+.

We don't get a 'FEW' decisions for and against.We get 'LOADS' against us and very,very 'FEW' for us.

Some games me and the rest of the crowd can see at least 10 bad decisions per game.
Mainly handballs and offsides....

Handball-not given
Handball-not given
Offside-not given
Foul-not given
Handball-not given
Offside-not given
Foul-given
Handball-not given...

^ Typical routine of decisions by referees and their assistants in our division.

Mark Lawns right to speak out!

Sorry but that doesn't hold any water. This season the midland road stand were mocking parts of the kop by shouting handball everytime the ball was touched such were the draft pleas for handballs by our crowd.

Bantam-in-Greece wrote:
Funny how a 'big crowd' didn't stop Leeds from getting out of the division above, did it? Home or away they did the business by getting at teams, playing with desire and passion and making sure that they got the three points. No way am I a Leeds fan but cannot help but notice. Just sayin' like.

...and you live in Greece,so how do you know what the referees AND some of their assistants decisions have been like this season?

Bantam-in-Greece wrote:
Funny how a 'big crowd' didn't stop Leeds from getting out of the division above, did it? Home or away they did the business by getting at teams, playing with desire and passion and making sure that they got the three points. No way am I a Leeds fan but cannot help but notice. Just sayin' like.

...and you live in Greece,so how do you know what the referees AND some of their assistants decisions have been like this season?

Maybe we need 2 refs 1 in each half of the pitch.

also 4 assistants 2 in each half of the pitch lol

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:

Danstarr69 wrote:

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:

gspot01 wrote: Have I miised something here? People above seem to be suggesting that Mark Lawn is a ref whne saying pot calling kettle. . Refs at this level are very bad....FACT. So why not highlight the fact. Straight we can think of the 2 reds given to Davies, the red given to Syers, Kozluk's red, Pen not given to Reid.....and thats not even thinking about it. I accept the 2 pens we got given on non fouls on Devitt but the reds given to Davies & Syers meant we lost 2 of our best players for 10 games in total.

Why would slagging the refereeing off at this level help our cause though? . If I were a league 2 referee and I had seen a league 2 club slagging me and all my collegues off I doubt I would be too pleased about it. . Regarding the decisions, the point I was making is that there are times when the Ref's have given strange decisions, I know as I saw them like everyone else. The Shrewbury handball for their goal, Syers sending off, but in the flip side we would have to complain about the goal that never was against Rotherham last season which gained us 2 points and the 3 points off Stockport that weren't deserved due to the ref playing in claret and amber. . We are on the end of some shocking decision but we are also on the good end of some too. As for 3 of the examples you give above they were away from home, I thought the arguement was based on refereeing infront of 10k+.

We don't get a 'FEW' decisions for and against.We get 'LOADS' against us and very,very 'FEW' for us. Some games me and the rest of the crowd can see at least 10 bad decisions per game. Mainly handballs and offsides.... Handball-not given Handball-not given Offside-not given Foul-not given Handball-not given Offside-not given Foul-given Handball-not given... ^ Typical routine of decisions by referees and their assistants in our division. Mark Lawns right to speak out!

Sorry but that doesn't hold any water. This season the midland road stand were mocking parts of the kop by shouting handball everytime the ball was touched such were the draft pleas for handballs by our crowd.

Why doesn't it? I can't remember every decision from every game like you lot above,but I do remember seeing at least 4 handballs being not given in the Shrewsbury match before Marvin Morgan slam-dunked the ball into the net.

Danstarr69 wrote:

Bantam-in-Greece wrote:
Funny how a 'big crowd' didn't stop Leeds from getting out of the division above, did it? Home or away they did the business by getting at teams, playing with desire and passion and making sure that they got the three points. No way am I a Leeds fan but cannot help but notice. Just sayin' like.

...and you live in Greece,so how do you know what the referees AND some of their assistants decisions have been like this season?

As my name suggests, I am a Bantam. Always have been, always will be. As such I will continue to have my say and of course, my comments that you refer to have no relevance as to whether referee's at VP are 'bad' or not.
I merely stated the obvious with how Leeds overcame their demise.
Also, how do you know that I've not been to VP this season or in seasons gone?
I can assure you that I have and it costs me a **** sight more that it does you, sir!!

"HAPPY VALLEY-EXCESS ALL AREAS"

'JOOLS & LAWNEE'

(over a mid-morning latte)

J: Well...you've REALLY DONE IT THIS TIME, Lawnee!

L: What'd'ya mean, Jools!

J: Your comments about referees!

L: Well, I was only sayin' what everyone else-the City fans' are thinkin'!! Wasn't I?

J: That's not the point...you've 'flagged yourself and City up' as anti-ref' and said some very unpleasant things..about the 'boys in black!!'

L: Well...maybe they needed sayin!!
P'raps they'll make a bigger effort ..when they come to 'VP'...p'raps they'll give US a fair crack for a change!!

J: Oh yes..perhaps they will...OR perhaps....

L: Perhaps what...?!!

J: Perhaps it'll give them a reason to be against us...and...??!!

L: You mean...more red cards...dodgy pens..offsides etc??

(J nodding his head slowly)

J: Wonder what they call a 'bunny boiler' ref?!!

'BE AFRAID...BE VERY AFRAID!!!!'

Lets look at the home games and see how many points we have been cost by bad refereeing decisions.
.
Aldershot - lost 2-1, because we played poor no major ref decision influenced the game.
.
Dagenham - lost 1-0, again we played poor no major ref decisions, Hannah dived for a pen in the last minute and it was waved away.
.
Barnet - won 4-2, played well no major ref decision influenced the game.
.
Bristol Rovers - drew 2-2, played well but couldn't score dubious penalty got us a point. 2 penalties give to BCFC in this game.
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AFC Wimbledon - lost 2-1, played average at best poor goalkeeping cost us a point. Ref gave us a pen, no major ref decisions influenced the game.
.
Torquay - won 1-0, played well considering dubious sending off, still no points dropped.
.
Northampton - won 2-1, dubious penalty awarded to us at 1-0 down got us back in the game.
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Cheltenham - lost 1-0, played off the park no major ref decisions influenced the game.
.
Rotherham - lost 3-2, played well in the first half but we asleep second half to fall 3-1 down, referee handed two genourous penalties to us but we fluffed one.
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Plymouth - drew 1-1, poor game no major ref decisions influenced the game, they had a man deservedly sent off.
.
Crewe - won 3-0, played well, they had a joke penalty awarded but missed.
.
Shrewsbury - won 3-1, played really well till Syers was sent off for nothing and they scored a handled goal.
.
Morecambe - drew 2-2, played ok, fell asleep at the end and cost us, no major refereeing decisions cost us.
.
Burton - drew 1-1, poor game again fell asleep to conceed late on, no major refereeing decisions cost us.
.
So there were go, I make it in games where major decisions went against us it cost us no points, all lost games were deserved and we drew and had the chance of a draw on the back of a few dodgy penalties.
.
I'm happy for anyone to tell me I haven't given a fair analysis in the above. Remember Mr Lawn said "“A referee used to having 2,000 or 3,000 there suddenly has to do it in front of 10,000 and they can’t cope with it. I believe that without doubt. “How can you have a Championship-size crowd and a League Two referee? You need a certain type of official to be able to deal with that."
So home games only please as that is what Mr Lawn is refering too.

Cityman23 wrote:
"HAPPY VALLEY-EXCESS ALL AREAS" 'JOOLS & LAWNEE' (over a mid-morning latte) J: Well...you've REALLY DONE IT THIS TIME, Lawnee! L: What'd'ya mean, Jools! J: Your comments about referees! L: Well, I was only sayin' what everyone else-the City fans' are thinkin'!! Wasn't I? J: That's not the point...you've 'flagged yourself and City up' as anti-ref' and said some very unpleasant things..about the 'boys in black!!' L: Well...maybe they needed sayin!! P'raps they'll make a bigger effort ..when they come to 'VP'...p'raps they'll give US a fair crack for a change!! J: Oh yes..perhaps they will...OR perhaps.... L: Perhaps what...?!! J: Perhaps it'll give them a reason to be against us...and...??!! L: You mean...more red cards...dodgy pens..offsides etc?? (J nodding his head slowly) J: Wonder what they call a 'bunny boiler' ref?!! 'BE AFRAID...BE VERY AFRAID!!!!'

P1ss poor as usual

Danstarr69 wrote:

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:

Danstarr69 wrote:

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:

gspot01 wrote: Have I miised something here? People above seem to be suggesting that Mark Lawn is a ref whne saying pot calling kettle. . Refs at this level are very bad....FACT. So why not highlight the fact. Straight we can think of the 2 reds given to Davies, the red given to Syers, Kozluk's red, Pen not given to Reid.....and thats not even thinking about it. I accept the 2 pens we got given on non fouls on Devitt but the reds given to Davies & Syers meant we lost 2 of our best players for 10 games in total.

Why would slagging the refereeing off at this level help our cause though? . If I were a league 2 referee and I had seen a league 2 club slagging me and all my collegues off I doubt I would be too pleased about it. . Regarding the decisions, the point I was making is that there are times when the Ref's have given strange decisions, I know as I saw them like everyone else. The Shrewbury handball for their goal, Syers sending off, but in the flip side we would have to complain about the goal that never was against Rotherham last season which gained us 2 points and the 3 points off Stockport that weren't deserved due to the ref playing in claret and amber. . We are on the end of some shocking decision but we are also on the good end of some too. As for 3 of the examples you give above they were away from home, I thought the arguement was based on refereeing infront of 10k+.

We don't get a 'FEW' decisions for and against.We get 'LOADS' against us and very,very 'FEW' for us. Some games me and the rest of the crowd can see at least 10 bad decisions per game. Mainly handballs and offsides.... Handball-not given Handball-not given Offside-not given Foul-not given Handball-not given Offside-not given Foul-given Handball-not given... ^ Typical routine of decisions by referees and their assistants in our division. Mark Lawns right to speak out!

Sorry but that doesn't hold any water. This season the midland road stand were mocking parts of the kop by shouting handball everytime the ball was touched such were the draft pleas for handballs by our crowd.

Why doesn't it? I can't remember every decision from every game like you lot above,but I do remember seeing at least 4 handballs being not given in the Shrewsbury match before Marvin Morgan slam-dunked the ball into the net.

See my post above for an analysis of the seasons home games and tell me what you think, you'll find that there isn't many points dropped due to Ref clangers. I'm talking about major decisions too, not if the ball had gone out on the half way line, actual match changing decisions.

Farsley Bantam wrote:

Cityman23 wrote: "HAPPY VALLEY-EXCESS ALL AREAS" 'JOOLS & LAWNEE' (over a mid-morning latte) J: Well...you've REALLY DONE IT THIS TIME, Lawnee! L: What'd'ya mean, Jools! J: Your comments about referees! L: Well, I was only sayin' what everyone else-the City fans' are thinkin'!! Wasn't I? J: That's not the point...you've 'flagged yourself and City up' as anti-ref' and said some very unpleasant things..about the 'boys in black!!' L: Well...maybe they needed sayin!! P'raps they'll make a bigger effort ..when they come to 'VP'...p'raps they'll give US a fair crack for a change!! J: Oh yes..perhaps they will...OR perhaps.... L: Perhaps what...?!! J: Perhaps it'll give them a reason to be against us...and...??!! L: You mean...more red cards...dodgy pens..offsides etc?? (J nodding his head slowly) J: Wonder what they call a 'bunny boiler' ref?!! 'BE AFRAID...BE VERY AFRAID!!!!'

P1ss poor as usual

Coming from you Mr L, I'll take that as a compliment!!

Those of you defending officials are aware this is a full time paid profession aren't you? If so I ask this, would you accept the same amount of mistakes from a different professional, pilot(split second decision making) or a surgeon? No thought not, so why is it acceptable for these morons to make so many, time and time again.

Failed footballers, last to get picked in games or just blokes with Hitler complexes, whatever the reason they now do this job it isn't to improve the sport and does have an adverse effect

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:

Danstarr69 wrote:

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:

Danstarr69 wrote:

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:

gspot01 wrote: Have I miised something here? People above seem to be suggesting that Mark Lawn is a ref whne saying pot calling kettle. . Refs at this level are very bad....FACT. So why not highlight the fact. Straight we can think of the 2 reds given to Davies, the red given to Syers, Kozluk's red, Pen not given to Reid.....and thats not even thinking about it. I accept the 2 pens we got given on non fouls on Devitt but the reds given to Davies & Syers meant we lost 2 of our best players for 10 games in total.

Why would slagging the refereeing off at this level help our cause though? . If I were a league 2 referee and I had seen a league 2 club slagging me and all my collegues off I doubt I would be too pleased about it. . Regarding the decisions, the point I was making is that there are times when the Ref's have given strange decisions, I know as I saw them like everyone else. The Shrewbury handball for their goal, Syers sending off, but in the flip side we would have to complain about the goal that never was against Rotherham last season which gained us 2 points and the 3 points off Stockport that weren't deserved due to the ref playing in claret and amber. . We are on the end of some shocking decision but we are also on the good end of some too. As for 3 of the examples you give above they were away from home, I thought the arguement was based on refereeing infront of 10k+.

We don't get a 'FEW' decisions for and against.We get 'LOADS' against us and very,very 'FEW' for us. Some games me and the rest of the crowd can see at least 10 bad decisions per game. Mainly handballs and offsides.... Handball-not given Handball-not given Offside-not given Foul-not given Handball-not given Offside-not given Foul-given Handball-not given... ^ Typical routine of decisions by referees and their assistants in our division. Mark Lawns right to speak out!

Sorry but that doesn't hold any water. This season the midland road stand were mocking parts of the kop by shouting handball everytime the ball was touched such were the draft pleas for handballs by our crowd.

Why doesn't it? I can't remember every decision from every game like you lot above,but I do remember seeing at least 4 handballs being not given in the Shrewsbury match before Marvin Morgan slam-dunked the ball into the net.

See my post above for an analysis of the seasons home games and tell me what you think, you'll find that there isn't many points dropped due to Ref clangers. I'm talking about major decisions too, not if the ball had gone out on the half way line, actual match changing decisions.

What about all the small decisions game after game?

If Hanson/Wells hadn't been called wrongly offside (which seems to happen alot at VP) we might have scored....

If we'd have been given that penalty/freekick for a legitimate handball we might have scored....

Yes we've played bad in most of our games but all them little decisions add up,and just one going right might have led to a goal.

IMO 90% of the games we get a bad referee and at least 1 dodgy assistant (eg. the one that doesnt know what offside is and flags every time,while the other assistant gets most decisions right)

Either I'm having a Dais ja vous moment or This story was printed earlier in the season. Therefore either the T&A have run out of stories or Mr. Lawn is having some sort of memory crisis in his old age. The problem with poor referees in this division is there is no incentive for them to improve because most of the Refs in the higer divisions are safe in their jobs. How often do we see refs have a bad game and some admit they have for example the Stuart MCcall incident where the ref held his hands up and said he made a mistake yet still took charge of other league games. The way to solve this is get us out of this division ASAP please Mr. Lawn.

Prisoner Cell Block A wrote:
Those of you defending officials are aware this is a full time paid profession aren't you? If so I ask this, would you accept the same amount of mistakes from a different professional, pilot(split second decision making) or a surgeon? No thought not, so why is it acceptable for these morons to make so many, time and time again. Failed footballers, last to get picked in games or just blokes with Hitler complexes, whatever the reason they now do this job it isn't to improve the sport and does have an adverse effect

The best referees are at the top of the game with the worst at the bottom.
.
Being a far way from the top we are not going to get the best referees.
.
Your not going to walk into McDonalds and expect to see Gordon Ramsey cooking in there.
.
From what I have seen recently anyhow those at the top of the game are not much better.
.
One thing to note is that analysis of home games, we wouldn't really be in a different position based on refereeing decisions. You end up where you are on merit, pointing at referees is a poor atempt to blame someone else for the teams poor showing this season.

Danstarr69 wrote:

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:

Danstarr69 wrote:

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:

Danstarr69 wrote:

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:

gspot01 wrote: Have I miised something here? People above seem to be suggesting that Mark Lawn is a ref whne saying pot calling kettle. . Refs at this level are very bad....FACT. So why not highlight the fact. Straight we can think of the 2 reds given to Davies, the red given to Syers, Kozluk's red, Pen not given to Reid.....and thats not even thinking about it. I accept the 2 pens we got given on non fouls on Devitt but the reds given to Davies & Syers meant we lost 2 of our best players for 10 games in total.

Why would slagging the refereeing off at this level help our cause though? . If I were a league 2 referee and I had seen a league 2 club slagging me and all my collegues off I doubt I would be too pleased about it. . Regarding the decisions, the point I was making is that there are times when the Ref's have given strange decisions, I know as I saw them like everyone else. The Shrewbury handball for their goal, Syers sending off, but in the flip side we would have to complain about the goal that never was against Rotherham last season which gained us 2 points and the 3 points off Stockport that weren't deserved due to the ref playing in claret and amber. . We are on the end of some shocking decision but we are also on the good end of some too. As for 3 of the examples you give above they were away from home, I thought the arguement was based on refereeing infront of 10k+.

We don't get a 'FEW' decisions for and against.We get 'LOADS' against us and very,very 'FEW' for us. Some games me and the rest of the crowd can see at least 10 bad decisions per game. Mainly handballs and offsides.... Handball-not given Handball-not given Offside-not given Foul-not given Handball-not given Offside-not given Foul-given Handball-not given... ^ Typical routine of decisions by referees and their assistants in our division. Mark Lawns right to speak out!

Sorry but that doesn't hold any water. This season the midland road stand were mocking parts of the kop by shouting handball everytime the ball was touched such were the draft pleas for handballs by our crowd.

Why doesn't it? I can't remember every decision from every game like you lot above,but I do remember seeing at least 4 handballs being not given in the Shrewsbury match before Marvin Morgan slam-dunked the ball into the net.

See my post above for an analysis of the seasons home games and tell me what you think, you'll find that there isn't many points dropped due to Ref clangers. I'm talking about major decisions too, not if the ball had gone out on the half way line, actual match changing decisions.

What about all the small decisions game after game? If Hanson/Wells hadn't been called wrongly offside (which seems to happen alot at VP) we might have scored.... If we'd have been given that penalty/freekick for a legitimate handball we might have scored.... Yes we've played bad in most of our games but all them little decisions add up,and just one going right might have led to a goal. IMO 90% of the games we get a bad referee and at least 1 dodgy assistant (eg. the one that doesnt know what offside is and flags every time,while the other assistant gets most decisions right)

Can you put a valid arguement that we would be in a better position than we are now with different referees? Or are you just going with the if's and maybe's arguement.
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Tell me how many of the games I analyised above would have resulted in a different result.

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
Lets look at the home games and see how many points we have been cost by bad refereeing decisions. . Aldershot - lost 2-1, because we played poor no major ref decision influenced the game. . Dagenham - lost 1-0, again we played poor no major ref decisions, Hannah dived for a pen in the last minute and it was waved away. . Barnet - won 4-2, played well no major ref decision influenced the game. . Bristol Rovers - drew 2-2, played well but couldn't score dubious penalty got us a point. 2 penalties give to BCFC in this game. . AFC Wimbledon - lost 2-1, played average at best poor goalkeeping cost us a point. Ref gave us a pen, no major ref decisions influenced the game. . Torquay - won 1-0, played well considering dubious sending off, still no points dropped. . Northampton - won 2-1, dubious penalty awarded to us at 1-0 down got us back in the game. . Cheltenham - lost 1-0, played off the park no major ref decisions influenced the game. . Rotherham - lost 3-2, played well in the first half but we asleep second half to fall 3-1 down, referee handed two genourous penalties to us but we fluffed one. . Plymouth - drew 1-1, poor game no major ref decisions influenced the game, they had a man deservedly sent off. . Crewe - won 3-0, played well, they had a joke penalty awarded but missed. . Shrewsbury - won 3-1, played really well till Syers was sent off for nothing and they scored a handled goal. . Morecambe - drew 2-2, played ok, fell asleep at the end and cost us, no major refereeing decisions cost us. . Burton - drew 1-1, poor game again fell asleep to conceed late on, no major refereeing decisions cost us. . So there were go, I make it in games where major decisions went against us it cost us no points, all lost games were deserved and we drew and had the chance of a draw on the back of a few dodgy penalties. . I'm happy for anyone to tell me I haven't given a fair analysis in the above. Remember Mr Lawn said "“A referee used to having 2,000 or 3,000 there suddenly has to do it in front of 10,000 and they can’t cope with it. I believe that without doubt. “How can you have a Championship-size crowd and a League Two referee? You need a certain type of official to be able to deal with that." So home games only please as that is what Mr Lawn is refering too.

Any takers to suggest we would have a hatfull more points this season due to bad refereeing decisions at home due to the referee not knowing how to handle a crowd of 10k+?
.
Or do we accept that OK the standard of refereering isn't the best but we haven't been cheated really and we are where we find ourselves on merit and this really is looking to push the blame elsewhere.

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:

Thee Voice of Reason wrote: Lets look at the home games and see how many points we have been cost by bad refereeing decisions. . Aldershot - lost 2-1, because we played poor no major ref decision influenced the game. . Dagenham - lost 1-0, again we played poor no major ref decisions, Hannah dived for a pen in the last minute and it was waved away. . Barnet - won 4-2, played well no major ref decision influenced the game. . Bristol Rovers - drew 2-2, played well but couldn't score dubious penalty got us a point. 2 penalties give to BCFC in this game. . AFC Wimbledon - lost 2-1, played average at best poor goalkeeping cost us a point. Ref gave us a pen, no major ref decisions influenced the game. . Torquay - won 1-0, played well considering dubious sending off, still no points dropped. . Northampton - won 2-1, dubious penalty awarded to us at 1-0 down got us back in the game. . Cheltenham - lost 1-0, played off the park no major ref decisions influenced the game. . Rotherham - lost 3-2, played well in the first half but we asleep second half to fall 3-1 down, referee handed two genourous penalties to us but we fluffed one. . Plymouth - drew 1-1, poor game no major ref decisions influenced the game, they had a man deservedly sent off. . Crewe - won 3-0, played well, they had a joke penalty awarded but missed. . Shrewsbury - won 3-1, played really well till Syers was sent off for nothing and they scored a handled goal. . Morecambe - drew 2-2, played ok, fell asleep at the end and cost us, no major refereeing decisions cost us. . Burton - drew 1-1, poor game again fell asleep to conceed late on, no major refereeing decisions cost us. . So there were go, I make it in games where major decisions went against us it cost us no points, all lost games were deserved and we drew and had the chance of a draw on the back of a few dodgy penalties. . I'm happy for anyone to tell me I haven't given a fair analysis in the above. Remember Mr Lawn said "“A referee used to having 2,000 or 3,000 there suddenly has to do it in front of 10,000 and they can’t cope with it. I believe that without doubt. “How can you have a Championship-size crowd and a League Two referee? You need a certain type of official to be able to deal with that." So home games only please as that is what Mr Lawn is refering too.

Any takers to suggest we would have a hatfull more points this season due to bad refereeing decisions at home due to the referee not knowing how to handle a crowd of 10k+? . Or do we accept that OK the standard of refereering isn't the best but we haven't been cheated really and we are where we find ourselves on merit and this really is looking to push the blame elsewhere.

Spot on. To suggest there is some kind of conspricacy against BCFC by referees is pure lunacy.
We have had plenty of decisions go our way this season but these tend not be as well remembered as the 'massive injustices' that we have been on the receiving end of.
The standard of refereeing is poor but its poor for everyone and bad decisions equal themselves out over the course of a season.

I think The Voice of Treason must have got his Giro and topped his leccy card up today.

He cant stop can he?

Onebrianmitchell wrote:
I think The Voice of Treason must have got his Giro and topped his leccy card up today. He cant stop can he?

I didn't really expect you put up a valid arguement and you didn't disapoint. Maybe you could go with a gay jibe as your next insult because you can't put across any reasoned arguement across.

Onebrianmitchell wrote:
I think The Voice of Treason must have got his Giro and topped his leccy card up today. He cant stop can he?

Maybe not but i agree with his comments.
We have blamed the refs, officials,pitch, weather,injuries and everything under the sun but we are where we are on merit.
Lets be positive and not only say how much we have imroved, but turn the claimed improvement into points to ensure we are not relegated please.

Prisoner Cell Block A wrote:
Those of you defending officials are aware this is a full time paid profession aren't you? If so I ask this, would you accept the same amount of mistakes from a different professional, pilot(split second decision making) or a surgeon? No thought not, so why is it acceptable for these morons to make so many, time and time again.

Failed footballers, last to get picked in games or just blokes with Hitler complexes, whatever the reason they now do this job it isn't to improve the sport and does have an adverse effect

Sorry mate, only the "Select Group" of Premier League refs are full time, that's about 15 of them. All the others have other full time jobs. Check out some of them here..http://www.foo
tball-league.co.uk/p
age/MenInBlack/0,,10
794~1840714,00.html

Really? I thought it was across the board. I stand corrected. Still, blind, ignorant fools in the main. Then again, we have players with those qualities.

watch the premier league matches this week and im sure the professional referees in those games will make plenty of mistakes,maybe referees should be talking to a fourth official for some of the big decisions,penalties red cards.

Ask Steve Baines or Dickie Bird about impartial decisions, both have different views regarding fairness.

Farsley Bantam wrote:

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:

Thee Voice of Reason wrote: Lets look at the home games and see how many points we have been cost by bad refereeing decisions. . Aldershot - lost 2-1, because we played poor no major ref decision influenced the game. . Dagenham - lost 1-0, again we played poor no major ref decisions, Hannah dived for a pen in the last minute and it was waved away. . Barnet - won 4-2, played well no major ref decision influenced the game. . Bristol Rovers - drew 2-2, played well but couldn't score dubious penalty got us a point. 2 penalties give to BCFC in this game. . AFC Wimbledon - lost 2-1, played average at best poor goalkeeping cost us a point. Ref gave us a pen, no major ref decisions influenced the game. . Torquay - won 1-0, played well considering dubious sending off, still no points dropped. . Northampton - won 2-1, dubious penalty awarded to us at 1-0 down got us back in the game. . Cheltenham - lost 1-0, played off the park no major ref decisions influenced the game. . Rotherham - lost 3-2, played well in the first half but we asleep second half to fall 3-1 down, referee handed two genourous penalties to us but we fluffed one. . Plymouth - drew 1-1, poor game no major ref decisions influenced the game, they had a man deservedly sent off. . Crewe - won 3-0, played well, they had a joke penalty awarded but missed. . Shrewsbury - won 3-1, played really well till Syers was sent off for nothing and they scored a handled goal. . Morecambe - drew 2-2, played ok, fell asleep at the end and cost us, no major refereeing decisions cost us. . Burton - drew 1-1, poor game again fell asleep to conceed late on, no major refereeing decisions cost us. . So there were go, I make it in games where major decisions went against us it cost us no points, all lost games were deserved and we drew and had the chance of a draw on the back of a few dodgy penalties. . I'm happy for anyone to tell me I haven't given a fair analysis in the above. Remember Mr Lawn said "“A referee used to having 2,000 or 3,000 there suddenly has to do it in front of 10,000 and they can’t cope with it. I believe that without doubt. “How can you have a Championship-size crowd and a League Two referee? You need a certain type of official to be able to deal with that." So home games only please as that is what Mr Lawn is refering too.

Any takers to suggest we would have a hatfull more points this season due to bad refereeing decisions at home due to the referee not knowing how to handle a crowd of 10k+? . Or do we accept that OK the standard of refereering isn't the best but we haven't been cheated really and we are where we find ourselves on merit and this really is looking to push the blame elsewhere.

Spot on. To suggest there is some kind of conspricacy against BCFC by referees is pure lunacy. We have had plenty of decisions go our way this season but these tend not be as well remembered as the 'massive injustices' that we have been on the receiving end of. The standard of refereeing is poor but its poor for everyone and bad decisions equal themselves out over the course of a season.

I also agree and some good posts and research from TVOR, this is not a problem that is just affecting BCFC it is all clubs in this league from hell.

ML is correct in his statement that refs are not up to standard,I think most clubs and fans in this league would agree with that, but to seem to suggest that there is a bias against us at home matches is a bit far fetched to me.

I go to a fair lot of away matches and can say that I go home from those matches more angry about the refs performances than home games...none more so than Macclesfield away this season which I can safely say was the worst refereeing performance I have ever seen.

I'm not saying refs have been great at home matches by any means but we have had one or two dodgy decisions go our way also this season,Devitt pens spring to mind immediately, as well as the bad ones (Syers etc).

I would also ask would a 25k capacity ground with 9k fans in creating little atmosphere, be more intimidating to a ref than a pokey little hole holding 10k with 6k fans virtually stood on the pitch?

Cant help but draw comparisons to ML's comments last season re our teams poor performances at home matches....that the players weren't able to cope with the pressure of playing in front of a crowd??......well not much has changed so far despite getting a raft of new players in.

So in summing up, although I agree with ML that refs are generally very poor standard,it is probably no worse than anyone else is having to put up with in this league whether we are at home or not, and that to overcome this problem, the players and management need to do better on and off the pitch themselves

he has said what we all are thinking but it wont change anything

Tvor what about the rotherham pen given against ob? Never a pen hit at him from one yard with his hands at his side. Also morecambe's first equalizer was started by a foul by ellinson also a morecombe player should have been sent off for a foul on Jones. Also a shrewsbury player should have seen red for breaking ramsden toe. They is too many to mention but all lawn is saying is it is poor referring he hasn't said that is why we are where we are has he

I'd always question the motives of someone who would rather referee every weekend and suffer bucket loads of abuse, as opposed to going to watch a game.

If that doesn't show someone's craving to be centre of attention and enjoy the power trip of making decisions, then I don't know what does.

Referees are quite happy to blow up for petty infringements to try and justify their existence, but when a big decision comes along they rarely have the bottle to make it.

They do appear not to give us certain decisions to show they are not influenced by big crowds, and seem to revel in antagonising the home support by making contentious decisions, as it puts then in the limelight.

I think it was Graham Poll though, that admitted he was less likely to give 50/50 decisions to a team that had criticised him in the past.

Much as I agree with what Lawn has said, I don't think he should've gone public with his concerns.