Hit for six but we can beat the drop says Bradford Bulls coach Francis Cummins, who takes swipe at RFL

Beleaguered Bulls boss Francis Cummins is scathing of the RFL, saying:

Beleaguered Bulls boss Francis Cummins is scathing of the RFL, saying: "We’ve had our hands tied behind our back anyway but maybe this is one punch in the stomach too many"

First published in Sport Bradford Telegraph and Argus: Photograph of the Author by , Bradford Bulls Reporter

Francis Cummins has spoken of his belief that the Bulls can avoid relegation after they were docked six points and the board of directors withdrew their bid to buy the club.

The Bulls’ worst fears were realised on a tumultuous day which saw their survival hopes dealt a savage blow and prospective buyers Bradford Bulls 2014 Ltd walk out.

The company, led by directors Mark Moore, Andrew Calvert, Ian Watt and Robbie Hunter-Paul, were told by the RFL that the Bulls would be placed in special measures had their bid to buy the club from administrator David Wilson been completed.

Special measures apply when the governing body does not have sufficient confidence in a club to pay wages and fulfil its fixtures.

In short, it means a club cannot do anything without RFL approval, including making permanent player signings, and Cummins was left bitterly disappointed with the RFL’s stance.

The Bulls head coach said: “Losing the points is a body blow but I wasn’t too concerned about that because I believe in the group we’ve got.

“I’d be confident to recoup the points provided we can strengthen the squad and look to add in some loans.

“While we’re not going to be signing Sonny Bill Williams, we need some cavalry coming somewhere along the line. But if you’re not being allowed to compete then it gets tougher and tougher because we’ve got a small enough squad as it is.

“It’s ludicrous and has been like this for a long, long time. I just hope that finally something happens now because it’s a really poor situation.

“But like I say, I’m totally confident in those boys we’ve got.

“We weren’t that far away against Castleford and their attitude at Wakefield was superb, so we’re getting better and better.

“Half our money has been taken away and even some of our players have been taken away but things are still happening here.

“We’ve had our hands tied behind our back anyway but maybe this is one punch in the stomach too many. It’s just a very difficult time.”

Cummins and his players had yesterday off but will be back at their training base at Tong in preparation for Sunday’s game with London Broncos.

The Bulls boss admitted he was unsure what state of mind his players would be in, adding: “The one thing that has kept us going through all this is how well the boys have been training. If they decide that they want to keep that going then great.

“If they don’t, then who can blame them?”

Cummins said he had never contemplated the prospect of quitting despite the constant obstacles which have barred his way since taking the job 17 months ago.

But he vowed that him and his staff would not work without pay again as they had done during the Bulls’ previous spell in administration in 2012.

Cummins said: “I’ve never once thought about walking away, I would never do it.

“But those days of volunteering from the staff are gone.

“That will never happen again because the staff have gone further than their job description and have done so much for this club.

“They have worked for free and done all the extras hours but there will be none of that now because people feel there is a massive sense of injustice.”

The club’s players and staff are due to be paid imminently and the RFL’s director of licensing and standards Blake Solly said: “That’s a discussion we are having with the administrator at the moment.

“The wages are not guaranteed but history would suggest we’ve done everything possible to ensure they are met.”

* Wakefield Trinity Wildcats centre Dean Collis received a two-match ban last night after submitting an early-guilty plea to a dangerous tackle on Bulls stand-off Lee Gaskell during his side’s home defeat last Thursday.

But London Broncos’ hooker Scott Moore was cleared to play in Sunday’s game at the Bulls after being found not guilty of a dangerous tackle on prop Darrell Griffin during his side’s 44-18 defeat by Salford City Red Devils last Saturday.

Comments (26)

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7:51am Wed 26 Feb 14

Thee Voice of Reason says...

The people to blame for this whole shambles are Khan and Sutcliffe. They were given a clean slate and ran up £1.2m of debt. This is the debt that can't be repaid hence the 6 point deduction.
They failed to pay the players on time which is why the RFL want to put special sanctions on the club as they see it happening again.
They made the only way for anyone to take the club off them was through Admin.
If you want to point the finger of blame it should be at Khan and Sutcliffe, not the RFL.
The people to blame for this whole shambles are Khan and Sutcliffe. They were given a clean slate and ran up £1.2m of debt. This is the debt that can't be repaid hence the 6 point deduction. They failed to pay the players on time which is why the RFL want to put special sanctions on the club as they see it happening again. They made the only way for anyone to take the club off them was through Admin. If you want to point the finger of blame it should be at Khan and Sutcliffe, not the RFL. Thee Voice of Reason
  • Score: 5

8:00am Wed 26 Feb 14

taurusthebull says...

All we can do as fans at the moment is get behind Franny and the boys! If this group can take the fight forward and say " whatever you throw at us , we will meet it and beat you !!" adversity can have a galvanising effect again .
SO BULLS FANS NOMATTER NOW WHERE THE BLAME LIES IT ISN'T WITH THE PLAYERS AND COACH SO LETS STICK TOGETHER AND CLIMB OUT OF THIS MESS.

COME ON YOU BULLS !
All we can do as fans at the moment is get behind Franny and the boys! If this group can take the fight forward and say " whatever you throw at us , we will meet it and beat you !!" adversity can have a galvanising effect again . SO BULLS FANS NOMATTER NOW WHERE THE BLAME LIES IT ISN'T WITH THE PLAYERS AND COACH SO LETS STICK TOGETHER AND CLIMB OUT OF THIS MESS. COME ON YOU BULLS ! taurusthebull
  • Score: 27

8:02am Wed 26 Feb 14

Archie's Ghost says...

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
The people to blame for this whole shambles are Khan and Sutcliffe. They were given a clean slate and ran up £1.2m of debt. This is the debt that can't be repaid hence the 6 point deduction.
They failed to pay the players on time which is why the RFL want to put special sanctions on the club as they see it happening again.
They made the only way for anyone to take the club off them was through Admin.
If you want to point the finger of blame it should be at Khan and Sutcliffe, not the RFL.
Utter nonsense. The withholding of the Sky money when the club was at it's most vulnerable has sank the boat. No other club has ever had such a sanction.
[quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: The people to blame for this whole shambles are Khan and Sutcliffe. They were given a clean slate and ran up £1.2m of debt. This is the debt that can't be repaid hence the 6 point deduction. They failed to pay the players on time which is why the RFL want to put special sanctions on the club as they see it happening again. They made the only way for anyone to take the club off them was through Admin. If you want to point the finger of blame it should be at Khan and Sutcliffe, not the RFL.[/p][/quote]Utter nonsense. The withholding of the Sky money when the club was at it's most vulnerable has sank the boat. No other club has ever had such a sanction. Archie's Ghost
  • Score: 3

8:09am Wed 26 Feb 14

Thee Voice of Reason says...

Archie's Ghost wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
The people to blame for this whole shambles are Khan and Sutcliffe. They were given a clean slate and ran up £1.2m of debt. This is the debt that can't be repaid hence the 6 point deduction.
They failed to pay the players on time which is why the RFL want to put special sanctions on the club as they see it happening again.
They made the only way for anyone to take the club off them was through Admin.
If you want to point the finger of blame it should be at Khan and Sutcliffe, not the RFL.
Utter nonsense. The withholding of the Sky money when the club was at it's most vulnerable has sank the boat. No other club has ever had such a sanction.
Listen to yourself.
£600k withheld let to a £1.2m debt? Khan put the offer of a reduction on the table in order to secure Super League status and make his bid the No1. When agreed all was known well in advance of the season and cloth could have been cut accordingly but wasn't.
[quote][p][bold]Archie's Ghost[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: The people to blame for this whole shambles are Khan and Sutcliffe. They were given a clean slate and ran up £1.2m of debt. This is the debt that can't be repaid hence the 6 point deduction. They failed to pay the players on time which is why the RFL want to put special sanctions on the club as they see it happening again. They made the only way for anyone to take the club off them was through Admin. If you want to point the finger of blame it should be at Khan and Sutcliffe, not the RFL.[/p][/quote]Utter nonsense. The withholding of the Sky money when the club was at it's most vulnerable has sank the boat. No other club has ever had such a sanction.[/p][/quote]Listen to yourself. £600k withheld let to a £1.2m debt? Khan put the offer of a reduction on the table in order to secure Super League status and make his bid the No1. When agreed all was known well in advance of the season and cloth could have been cut accordingly but wasn't. Thee Voice of Reason
  • Score: 9

8:17am Wed 26 Feb 14

rogerthat! says...

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
The people to blame for this whole shambles are Khan and Sutcliffe. They were given a clean slate and ran up £1.2m of debt. This is the debt that can't be repaid hence the 6 point deduction.
They failed to pay the players on time which is why the RFL want to put special sanctions on the club as they see it happening again.
They made the only way for anyone to take the club off them was through Admin.
If you want to point the finger of blame it should be at Khan and Sutcliffe, not the RFL.
Spot on . Khan,Suitcliffe and Puppy Whitcut all had big mouths but No Brass.
Moore and Co again No Brass expecting the RFL to pay the debts.
Will the Players be paid? Who is running the Club? Robbie was a Director of Bulls2014, has he walked like the other ? I fear more revelations to come, what a mess, FACT.
[quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: The people to blame for this whole shambles are Khan and Sutcliffe. They were given a clean slate and ran up £1.2m of debt. This is the debt that can't be repaid hence the 6 point deduction. They failed to pay the players on time which is why the RFL want to put special sanctions on the club as they see it happening again. They made the only way for anyone to take the club off them was through Admin. If you want to point the finger of blame it should be at Khan and Sutcliffe, not the RFL.[/p][/quote]Spot on . Khan,Suitcliffe and Puppy Whitcut all had big mouths but No Brass. Moore and Co again No Brass expecting the RFL to pay the debts. Will the Players be paid? Who is running the Club? Robbie was a Director of Bulls2014, has he walked like the other ? I fear more revelations to come, what a mess, FACT. rogerthat!
  • Score: 17

8:22am Wed 26 Feb 14

Lythambull says...

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
The people to blame for this whole shambles are Khan and Sutcliffe. They were given a clean slate and ran up £1.2m of debt. This is the debt that can't be repaid hence the 6 point deduction. They failed to pay the players on time which is why the RFL want to put special sanctions on the club as they see it happening again. They made the only way for anyone to take the club off them was through Admin. If you want to point the finger of blame it should be at Khan and Sutcliffe, not the RFL.
Couldn't agree more. There was an opportunity to live within our means and grow sustainably despite the money being withheld and Khan and Sutcliffe ruined it. We might not have been in the grand final but we would have a competitive, solvent club to follow. Instead we were fed a pack of lies and lapped it up (or some of us, including me, did), because we wanted to see our club back where we felt it belongs.
In no longer sure where we belong. Hopefully we can get behind the lads and have someone come in to steady the ship, but this may not happen. The RFL will probably keep us is special measures WHOEVER the potential new owner is.
If we go down it's going to be very hard to come back up as the new structure, whilst keeping matches competitive across the whole season, does not leave much scope for Championship sides to earn a promotion.
Even more hard times ahead, let's hope the ayers aren't too down trodden by this and give us something to shout about on Sunday. COME ON YOU BULLS!!
[quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: The people to blame for this whole shambles are Khan and Sutcliffe. They were given a clean slate and ran up £1.2m of debt. This is the debt that can't be repaid hence the 6 point deduction. They failed to pay the players on time which is why the RFL want to put special sanctions on the club as they see it happening again. They made the only way for anyone to take the club off them was through Admin. If you want to point the finger of blame it should be at Khan and Sutcliffe, not the RFL.[/p][/quote]Couldn't agree more. There was an opportunity to live within our means and grow sustainably despite the money being withheld and Khan and Sutcliffe ruined it. We might not have been in the grand final but we would have a competitive, solvent club to follow. Instead we were fed a pack of lies and lapped it up (or some of us, including me, did), because we wanted to see our club back where we felt it belongs. In no longer sure where we belong. Hopefully we can get behind the lads and have someone come in to steady the ship, but this may not happen. The RFL will probably keep us is special measures WHOEVER the potential new owner is. If we go down it's going to be very hard to come back up as the new structure, whilst keeping matches competitive across the whole season, does not leave much scope for Championship sides to earn a promotion. Even more hard times ahead, let's hope the ayers aren't too down trodden by this and give us something to shout about on Sunday. COME ON YOU BULLS!! Lythambull
  • Score: 10

8:27am Wed 26 Feb 14

danger mouse says...

rogerthat! wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
The people to blame for this whole shambles are Khan and Sutcliffe. They were given a clean slate and ran up £1.2m of debt. This is the debt that can't be repaid hence the 6 point deduction.
They failed to pay the players on time which is why the RFL want to put special sanctions on the club as they see it happening again.
They made the only way for anyone to take the club off them was through Admin.
If you want to point the finger of blame it should be at Khan and Sutcliffe, not the RFL.
Spot on . Khan,Suitcliffe and Puppy Whitcut all had big mouths but No Brass.
Moore and Co again No Brass expecting the RFL to pay the debts.
Will the Players be paid? Who is running the Club? Robbie was a Director of Bulls2014, has he walked like the other ? I fear more revelations to come, what a mess, FACT.
The administrator is now running the club and is in talks with the RFL to pay the staff. Mr Lamb has offered to send staff to ensure sure Sundays game goes ahead. Really hope the mess gets sorted soon and somebody with a bit of something upstairs can buy the club and take it forward. COYB
[quote][p][bold]rogerthat![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: The people to blame for this whole shambles are Khan and Sutcliffe. They were given a clean slate and ran up £1.2m of debt. This is the debt that can't be repaid hence the 6 point deduction. They failed to pay the players on time which is why the RFL want to put special sanctions on the club as they see it happening again. They made the only way for anyone to take the club off them was through Admin. If you want to point the finger of blame it should be at Khan and Sutcliffe, not the RFL.[/p][/quote]Spot on . Khan,Suitcliffe and Puppy Whitcut all had big mouths but No Brass. Moore and Co again No Brass expecting the RFL to pay the debts. Will the Players be paid? Who is running the Club? Robbie was a Director of Bulls2014, has he walked like the other ? I fear more revelations to come, what a mess, FACT.[/p][/quote]The administrator is now running the club and is in talks with the RFL to pay the staff. Mr Lamb has offered to send staff to ensure sure Sundays game goes ahead. Really hope the mess gets sorted soon and somebody with a bit of something upstairs can buy the club and take it forward. COYB danger mouse
  • Score: 4

8:52am Wed 26 Feb 14

Van Bellen's Baby says...

All parties are to blame and all are victims it would seem. Khan must have put some of his own money in and therefore his agreement with Moore to buy him out is not unreasonable. Moore apparently seems to have renaiged on that agreement and has, according to Rimmer, attempted to use club funds to try to buy out Khan's stake. Rimmer also points out that 'The club’s directors were unable to provide any evidence of new capital investment into Bradford', so why then did they ratify the takeover? I agreed with the points penalty if creditors were being left high and dry (probably local businesses) but if Moore had stated a commitement to honouring the creditor's debts why the punishment? It sounds as if the RFL has decided that it thinks the creditors will not be honoured and that the club is in the hands of unreliable or even untrustworthy owners.
All parties are to blame and all are victims it would seem. Khan must have put some of his own money in and therefore his agreement with Moore to buy him out is not unreasonable. Moore apparently seems to have renaiged on that agreement and has, according to Rimmer, attempted to use club funds to try to buy out Khan's stake. Rimmer also points out that 'The club’s directors were unable to provide any evidence of new capital investment into Bradford', so why then did they ratify the takeover? I agreed with the points penalty if creditors were being left high and dry (probably local businesses) but if Moore had stated a commitement to honouring the creditor's debts why the punishment? It sounds as if the RFL has decided that it thinks the creditors will not be honoured and that the club is in the hands of unreliable or even untrustworthy owners. Van Bellen's Baby
  • Score: 4

8:56am Wed 26 Feb 14

fedupwiththeBS says...

This is not what we need as a Club, we are on the verge of Liquidation and we have fans and now the Coach taking a pop at the RFL.

Whatever their failings they are the Governing body and are now in charge of our Club. We need to give them a reason to want to keep us in Superleague.

OK's Clowns rode the club into the ground and then MM and his fools tried to buy the Club with Club money and it has blown up in their faces.

Yet again players and fans suffer, I hope all those that were conned into buying a season ticket brought it on a credit card.
This is not what we need as a Club, we are on the verge of Liquidation and we have fans and now the Coach taking a pop at the RFL. Whatever their failings they are the Governing body and are now in charge of our Club. We need to give them a reason to want to keep us in Superleague. OK's Clowns rode the club into the ground and then MM and his fools tried to buy the Club with Club money and it has blown up in their faces. Yet again players and fans suffer, I hope all those that were conned into buying a season ticket brought it on a credit card. fedupwiththeBS
  • Score: 6

9:10am Wed 26 Feb 14

Thee Voice of Reason says...

Van Bellen's Baby wrote:
All parties are to blame and all are victims it would seem. Khan must have put some of his own money in and therefore his agreement with Moore to buy him out is not unreasonable. Moore apparently seems to have renaiged on that agreement and has, according to Rimmer, attempted to use club funds to try to buy out Khan's stake. Rimmer also points out that 'The club’s directors were unable to provide any evidence of new capital investment into Bradford', so why then did they ratify the takeover? I agreed with the points penalty if creditors were being left high and dry (probably local businesses) but if Moore had stated a commitement to honouring the creditor's debts why the punishment? It sounds as if the RFL has decided that it thinks the creditors will not be honoured and that the club is in the hands of unreliable or even untrustworthy owners.
I'm guessing the takeover was ratified on the basis of the points deduction and special conditions. This looks like Moore and Co trying to get the RFL to back down by throwing rattles and teddies out the pram.
That statement yesterday wasn't written in 5 min, they have known this for a while but decided to oppose it once it was made public for maximum effect.
[quote][p][bold]Van Bellen's Baby[/bold] wrote: All parties are to blame and all are victims it would seem. Khan must have put some of his own money in and therefore his agreement with Moore to buy him out is not unreasonable. Moore apparently seems to have renaiged on that agreement and has, according to Rimmer, attempted to use club funds to try to buy out Khan's stake. Rimmer also points out that 'The club’s directors were unable to provide any evidence of new capital investment into Bradford', so why then did they ratify the takeover? I agreed with the points penalty if creditors were being left high and dry (probably local businesses) but if Moore had stated a commitement to honouring the creditor's debts why the punishment? It sounds as if the RFL has decided that it thinks the creditors will not be honoured and that the club is in the hands of unreliable or even untrustworthy owners.[/p][/quote]I'm guessing the takeover was ratified on the basis of the points deduction and special conditions. This looks like Moore and Co trying to get the RFL to back down by throwing rattles and teddies out the pram. That statement yesterday wasn't written in 5 min, they have known this for a while but decided to oppose it once it was made public for maximum effect. Thee Voice of Reason
  • Score: 0

9:12am Wed 26 Feb 14

Eddie Tees says...

IMO the RFL will do whatever they can to help London stay in SL. Even at the expense of our club
IMO the RFL will do whatever they can to help London stay in SL. Even at the expense of our club Eddie Tees
  • Score: 4

9:15am Wed 26 Feb 14

Eddie Tees says...

I have a feeling the RFL are doing all they can to help London stay in SL. We are victims of this. Putting us in a possision to go down.
I am not saying we are blameless but it does feel as though we are being punished over and over again.
Anyway "the game needs a team in the capital" Yeah right!!
I have a feeling the RFL are doing all they can to help London stay in SL. We are victims of this. Putting us in a possision to go down. I am not saying we are blameless but it does feel as though we are being punished over and over again. Anyway "the game needs a team in the capital" Yeah right!! Eddie Tees
  • Score: 3

9:18am Wed 26 Feb 14

gordon ramsay says...

At board level we have been run by a succession of inept fools. All love the publicity and all throw their teddies out of the cot.

Points deduction was obvious and Moore bottled it. Surprise surprise.
At board level we have been run by a succession of inept fools. All love the publicity and all throw their teddies out of the cot. Points deduction was obvious and Moore bottled it. Surprise surprise. gordon ramsay
  • Score: 4

9:24am Wed 26 Feb 14

Van Bellen's Baby says...

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
Van Bellen's Baby wrote:
All parties are to blame and all are victims it would seem. Khan must have put some of his own money in and therefore his agreement with Moore to buy him out is not unreasonable. Moore apparently seems to have renaiged on that agreement and has, according to Rimmer, attempted to use club funds to try to buy out Khan's stake. Rimmer also points out that 'The club’s directors were unable to provide any evidence of new capital investment into Bradford', so why then did they ratify the takeover? I agreed with the points penalty if creditors were being left high and dry (probably local businesses) but if Moore had stated a commitement to honouring the creditor's debts why the punishment? It sounds as if the RFL has decided that it thinks the creditors will not be honoured and that the club is in the hands of unreliable or even untrustworthy owners.
I'm guessing the takeover was ratified on the basis of the points deduction and special conditions. This looks like Moore and Co trying to get the RFL to back down by throwing rattles and teddies out the pram.
That statement yesterday wasn't written in 5 min, they have known this for a while but decided to oppose it once it was made public for maximum effect.
Yes I think that's probably right but this time there are other 'buyers' in the frame and so a risky bluff to call. I also didn't like Moore's assertion in that statement that the 6 pt deduction guarantees relegation, which smacks of a rat leaving a sinking ship and is by no means necessarily the case; a win on Sunday makes reduces the deficit to 2 pts and it is very early in the season still.
[quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Van Bellen's Baby[/bold] wrote: All parties are to blame and all are victims it would seem. Khan must have put some of his own money in and therefore his agreement with Moore to buy him out is not unreasonable. Moore apparently seems to have renaiged on that agreement and has, according to Rimmer, attempted to use club funds to try to buy out Khan's stake. Rimmer also points out that 'The club’s directors were unable to provide any evidence of new capital investment into Bradford', so why then did they ratify the takeover? I agreed with the points penalty if creditors were being left high and dry (probably local businesses) but if Moore had stated a commitement to honouring the creditor's debts why the punishment? It sounds as if the RFL has decided that it thinks the creditors will not be honoured and that the club is in the hands of unreliable or even untrustworthy owners.[/p][/quote]I'm guessing the takeover was ratified on the basis of the points deduction and special conditions. This looks like Moore and Co trying to get the RFL to back down by throwing rattles and teddies out the pram. That statement yesterday wasn't written in 5 min, they have known this for a while but decided to oppose it once it was made public for maximum effect.[/p][/quote]Yes I think that's probably right but this time there are other 'buyers' in the frame and so a risky bluff to call. I also didn't like Moore's assertion in that statement that the 6 pt deduction guarantees relegation, which smacks of a rat leaving a sinking ship and is by no means necessarily the case; a win on Sunday makes reduces the deficit to 2 pts and it is very early in the season still. Van Bellen's Baby
  • Score: 5

9:32am Wed 26 Feb 14

raisemeup says...

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
The people to blame for this whole shambles are Khan and Sutcliffe. They were given a clean slate and ran up £1.2m of debt. This is the debt that can't be repaid hence the 6 point deduction.
They failed to pay the players on time which is why the RFL want to put special sanctions on the club as they see it happening again.
They made the only way for anyone to take the club off them was through Admin.
If you want to point the finger of blame it should be at Khan and Sutcliffe, not the RFL.
Bull s... you know nothing, so keep your ill judged opinions to your self.
Circumstances alter places, just like features alter faces.
Which category do you fit into. more than likely the faces, you certainly have as many as the town hall clock.. You'll be blaming Genghi's Khan next and his mongolian hordes...
[quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: The people to blame for this whole shambles are Khan and Sutcliffe. They were given a clean slate and ran up £1.2m of debt. This is the debt that can't be repaid hence the 6 point deduction. They failed to pay the players on time which is why the RFL want to put special sanctions on the club as they see it happening again. They made the only way for anyone to take the club off them was through Admin. If you want to point the finger of blame it should be at Khan and Sutcliffe, not the RFL.[/p][/quote]Bull s... you know nothing, so keep your ill judged opinions to your self. Circumstances alter places, just like features alter faces. Which category do you fit into. more than likely the faces, you certainly have as many as the town hall clock.. You'll be blaming Genghi's Khan next and his mongolian hordes... raisemeup
  • Score: -9

9:33am Wed 26 Feb 14

JOHNJOHNNY says...

I have never commented on this situation before however one question I keep asking is how Mark Moore can put something together to convince the rfl he is the right man to take the Bulls forward , he requested a £500k advance from the rfl to tide them over however how much money can Mark really generate from selling beds online ? I doubt it would ever come close enough to be able to fund being the chairman of the bulls and indeed at the time he took over I said to myself how is he able to do so with seemingly little or no money.

Ultimately the people who come forward with some money ie the bloke from London should be considered to enable him to find further like minded people with some money behind them.

Moore and Co need to stop pretending they can ever hope to pull this off and if they can why is Moore having non of his own money down ?
I have never commented on this situation before however one question I keep asking is how Mark Moore can put something together to convince the rfl he is the right man to take the Bulls forward , he requested a £500k advance from the rfl to tide them over however how much money can Mark really generate from selling beds online ? I doubt it would ever come close enough to be able to fund being the chairman of the bulls and indeed at the time he took over I said to myself how is he able to do so with seemingly little or no money. Ultimately the people who come forward with some money ie the bloke from London should be considered to enable him to find further like minded people with some money behind them. Moore and Co need to stop pretending they can ever hope to pull this off and if they can why is Moore having non of his own money down ? JOHNJOHNNY
  • Score: 3

9:45am Wed 26 Feb 14

raisemeup says...

Van Bellen's Baby wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
Van Bellen's Baby wrote:
All parties are to blame and all are victims it would seem. Khan must have put some of his own money in and therefore his agreement with Moore to buy him out is not unreasonable. Moore apparently seems to have renaiged on that agreement and has, according to Rimmer, attempted to use club funds to try to buy out Khan's stake. Rimmer also points out that 'The club’s directors were unable to provide any evidence of new capital investment into Bradford', so why then did they ratify the takeover? I agreed with the points penalty if creditors were being left high and dry (probably local businesses) but if Moore had stated a commitement to honouring the creditor's debts why the punishment? It sounds as if the RFL has decided that it thinks the creditors will not be honoured and that the club is in the hands of unreliable or even untrustworthy owners.
I'm guessing the takeover was ratified on the basis of the points deduction and special conditions. This looks like Moore and Co trying to get the RFL to back down by throwing rattles and teddies out the pram.
That statement yesterday wasn't written in 5 min, they have known this for a while but decided to oppose it once it was made public for maximum effect.
Yes I think that's probably right but this time there are other 'buyers' in the frame and so a risky bluff to call. I also didn't like Moore's assertion in that statement that the 6 pt deduction guarantees relegation, which smacks of a rat leaving a sinking ship and is by no means necessarily the case; a win on Sunday makes reduces the deficit to 2 pts and it is very early in the season still.
You don't get it do you?
The 6 points are more than likely not the problem , and if you had read Frannies article you would have seen the guarantee of relegation comes from the "special Measures" which will not allow us to strengthen our squad, and if another 2 or 3 injuries happen like the cynical one to LG, then how will we avoid relegation.
Plus the shameful way the RFL have portrayed the team of Directors at the Bulls, how would they continue running their own business with the stigma of the RFLS not a fit and proper person by implication hanging over their heads.

So my friend use your grey matter, and get real by getting behind your club, no matter who is at the helm, although after seeing the performance of those at the rulling body, I may have reservations about that statement.
[quote][p][bold]Van Bellen's Baby[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Van Bellen's Baby[/bold] wrote: All parties are to blame and all are victims it would seem. Khan must have put some of his own money in and therefore his agreement with Moore to buy him out is not unreasonable. Moore apparently seems to have renaiged on that agreement and has, according to Rimmer, attempted to use club funds to try to buy out Khan's stake. Rimmer also points out that 'The club’s directors were unable to provide any evidence of new capital investment into Bradford', so why then did they ratify the takeover? I agreed with the points penalty if creditors were being left high and dry (probably local businesses) but if Moore had stated a commitement to honouring the creditor's debts why the punishment? It sounds as if the RFL has decided that it thinks the creditors will not be honoured and that the club is in the hands of unreliable or even untrustworthy owners.[/p][/quote]I'm guessing the takeover was ratified on the basis of the points deduction and special conditions. This looks like Moore and Co trying to get the RFL to back down by throwing rattles and teddies out the pram. That statement yesterday wasn't written in 5 min, they have known this for a while but decided to oppose it once it was made public for maximum effect.[/p][/quote]Yes I think that's probably right but this time there are other 'buyers' in the frame and so a risky bluff to call. I also didn't like Moore's assertion in that statement that the 6 pt deduction guarantees relegation, which smacks of a rat leaving a sinking ship and is by no means necessarily the case; a win on Sunday makes reduces the deficit to 2 pts and it is very early in the season still.[/p][/quote]You don't get it do you? The 6 points are more than likely not the problem , and if you had read Frannies article you would have seen the guarantee of relegation comes from the "special Measures" which will not allow us to strengthen our squad, and if another 2 or 3 injuries happen like the cynical one to LG, then how will we avoid relegation. Plus the shameful way the RFL have portrayed the team of Directors at the Bulls, how would they continue running their own business with the stigma of the RFLS not a fit and proper person by implication hanging over their heads. So my friend use your grey matter, and get real by getting behind your club, no matter who is at the helm, although after seeing the performance of those at the rulling body, I may have reservations about that statement. raisemeup
  • Score: -1

9:59am Wed 26 Feb 14

handoff says...

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
The people to blame for this whole shambles are Khan and Sutcliffe. They were given a clean slate and ran up £1.2m of debt. This is the debt that can't be repaid hence the 6 point deduction.
They failed to pay the players on time which is why the RFL want to put special sanctions on the club as they see it happening again.
They made the only way for anyone to take the club off them was through Admin.
If you want to point the finger of blame it should be at Khan and Sutcliffe, not the RFL.
A few points if I may ...

1. The first part of the assertion is completely correct and clear, and I would welcome an investigation by the fraud office into Khan and Whitcut.

2. Posts on this site calling the board inept are so far from the mark as to be risible, it is so easy to be an armchair critic when people are working all hours to keep this club alive.

3. The RFL are stewards of our game, however their track record of the last couple of decades is poor - the Eddie Stobbart sponsorship fiasco and the proposed nonsensical restructuring of the leagues are two cases in point. The points deduction is to prevent a side gaining financial advantage by use of administration to clear debts, however, given the halving and redistribution of Sky monies, there can be no possible case to suggest Bulls are gaining a meaningful advantage.

4. Ask yourself this. Would the RFL treat Wigan in a similar way? Do you remember the issues they had a few years back and the dubious way they were allowed to avoid relegation? The rest of the clubs should be very worried as their gates are about to fall substantially when there are no Bulls fans coming.

5. Let us spare a thought for the coaching, playing and administration staff at this time. They are the ones whose livelihoods are in jeopardy. Let us thank them for all the hard work they are doing in stressful times and turn up on Saturday to applaud them

6. On a broader point, in my opinion there is a strong case for Superleague to again run its own competition and decide its own fate. The remit of the governing body is too wide with too many conflicting interests to allow administration of the 'jewel in the crown' of rugby league.

7. The international game is the key to the sport's success in this century. To this end I believe a 10 team competition would best provide for the intensity of games needed to achieve this success. Let me make that point again: four teams would need to be relegated to a lower tier, and I would not be in favour of annual promotion/relegation as it would weaken growth. Only a sustained, improved and Superleague run licencing system can deliver this (not the RFL). Currently this would mean several sets of fans would be bitterly disappointed but that is the sort of restructuring that is required, even if it means mergers. Adapt or die.

I am very angry about this and there are a few people I would like to have a quiet close up chat with.
[quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: The people to blame for this whole shambles are Khan and Sutcliffe. They were given a clean slate and ran up £1.2m of debt. This is the debt that can't be repaid hence the 6 point deduction. They failed to pay the players on time which is why the RFL want to put special sanctions on the club as they see it happening again. They made the only way for anyone to take the club off them was through Admin. If you want to point the finger of blame it should be at Khan and Sutcliffe, not the RFL.[/p][/quote]A few points if I may ... 1. The first part of the assertion is completely correct and clear, and I would welcome an investigation by the fraud office into Khan and Whitcut. 2. Posts on this site calling the board inept are so far from the mark as to be risible, it is so easy to be an armchair critic when people are working all hours to keep this club alive. 3. The RFL are stewards of our game, however their track record of the last couple of decades is poor - the Eddie Stobbart sponsorship fiasco and the proposed nonsensical restructuring of the leagues are two cases in point. The points deduction is to prevent a side gaining financial advantage by use of administration to clear debts, however, given the halving and redistribution of Sky monies, there can be no possible case to suggest Bulls are gaining a meaningful advantage. 4. Ask yourself this. Would the RFL treat Wigan in a similar way? Do you remember the issues they had a few years back and the dubious way they were allowed to avoid relegation? The rest of the clubs should be very worried as their gates are about to fall substantially when there are no Bulls fans coming. 5. Let us spare a thought for the coaching, playing and administration staff at this time. They are the ones whose livelihoods are in jeopardy. Let us thank them for all the hard work they are doing in stressful times and turn up on Saturday to applaud them 6. On a broader point, in my opinion there is a strong case for Superleague to again run its own competition and decide its own fate. The remit of the governing body is too wide with too many conflicting interests to allow administration of the 'jewel in the crown' of rugby league. 7. The international game is the key to the sport's success in this century. To this end I believe a 10 team competition would best provide for the intensity of games needed to achieve this success. Let me make that point again: four teams would need to be relegated to a lower tier, and I would not be in favour of annual promotion/relegation as it would weaken growth. Only a sustained, improved and Superleague run licencing system can deliver this (not the RFL). Currently this would mean several sets of fans would be bitterly disappointed but that is the sort of restructuring that is required, even if it means mergers. Adapt or die. I am very angry about this and there are a few people I would like to have a quiet close up chat with. handoff
  • Score: 0

10:48am Wed 26 Feb 14

graz smith says...

Well we the BRADFORD BULLS SUPPORTERS have been let down by all concerned, it’s time to stop the blame game and direct all our energy in to doing what WE do best.
WE all and I mean all whatever the reasons you stopped going to Odsal pale into insignificance now, the BULLS need us ALL to be there on Sunday and let the lads know we are there with them.
WE are the BRADFORD BULLS WE have been slapped down but we will not stay down.
COM’ON YOU BULLS
Well we the BRADFORD BULLS SUPPORTERS have been let down by all concerned, it’s time to stop the blame game and direct all our energy in to doing what WE do best. WE all and I mean all whatever the reasons you stopped going to Odsal pale into insignificance now, the BULLS need us ALL to be there on Sunday and let the lads know we are there with them. WE are the BRADFORD BULLS WE have been slapped down but we will not stay down. COM’ON YOU BULLS graz smith
  • Score: 5

10:50am Wed 26 Feb 14

pww of idle says...

I see Dean Collis of Wakie gets a 2 match ban while we have a player out for 12 matches ! Typical of the RFL , but confirms (Yet again) that the Bulls are not wanted in Super League , especially if our relegation saves LONDON from being demoted - now that just won't be accepted by Red Hall - London not in SL.
I see Dean Collis of Wakie gets a 2 match ban while we have a player out for 12 matches ! Typical of the RFL , but confirms (Yet again) that the Bulls are not wanted in Super League , especially if our relegation saves LONDON from being demoted - now that just won't be accepted by Red Hall - London not in SL. pww of idle
  • Score: 2

10:51am Wed 26 Feb 14

oddshapedballs says...

Great confidence in your pottential employees Mark Moore. Yes 6pts is a big blow but to state that certain relegation now faces the club shows no respect to the players or coach.
Perhaps your ill timed report stating that the Bulls would not be deducted points had a bearing on the severity.
Just a thought but had we lost to wakey would the points deduction be reduced to 4? The rfl have left themselves open to ridicule once again
Great confidence in your pottential employees Mark Moore. Yes 6pts is a big blow but to state that certain relegation now faces the club shows no respect to the players or coach. Perhaps your ill timed report stating that the Bulls would not be deducted points had a bearing on the severity. Just a thought but had we lost to wakey would the points deduction be reduced to 4? The rfl have left themselves open to ridicule once again oddshapedballs
  • Score: 2

2:13pm Wed 26 Feb 14

davidworthmore says...

I was walking past the Provident Stadium this morning and saw a 2014
season ticket nailed to a gate post near the main gate. I thought to myself
I'm having that..... Well you can't have too many nails !!!
I was walking past the Provident Stadium this morning and saw a 2014 season ticket nailed to a gate post near the main gate. I thought to myself I'm having that..... Well you can't have too many nails !!! davidworthmore
  • Score: 5

3:11pm Wed 26 Feb 14

bullybullman says...

Archie's Ghost wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
The people to blame for this whole shambles are Khan and Sutcliffe. They were given a clean slate and ran up £1.2m of debt. This is the debt that can't be repaid hence the 6 point deduction.
They failed to pay the players on time which is why the RFL want to put special sanctions on the club as they see it happening again.
They made the only way for anyone to take the club off them was through Admin.
If you want to point the finger of blame it should be at Khan and Sutcliffe, not the RFL.
Utter nonsense. The withholding of the Sky money when the club was at it's most vulnerable has sank the boat. No other club has ever had such a sanction.
It was Omar who offered this condition to get approval not an RFL condition fact ! so Omar is to blame I dont think he was ever in it for the Bulls & Rugby.
[quote][p][bold]Archie's Ghost[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: The people to blame for this whole shambles are Khan and Sutcliffe. They were given a clean slate and ran up £1.2m of debt. This is the debt that can't be repaid hence the 6 point deduction. They failed to pay the players on time which is why the RFL want to put special sanctions on the club as they see it happening again. They made the only way for anyone to take the club off them was through Admin. If you want to point the finger of blame it should be at Khan and Sutcliffe, not the RFL.[/p][/quote]Utter nonsense. The withholding of the Sky money when the club was at it's most vulnerable has sank the boat. No other club has ever had such a sanction.[/p][/quote]It was Omar who offered this condition to get approval not an RFL condition fact ! so Omar is to blame I dont think he was ever in it for the Bulls & Rugby. bullybullman
  • Score: 4

3:20pm Wed 26 Feb 14

bullybullman says...

JOHNJOHNNY wrote:
I have never commented on this situation before however one question I keep asking is how Mark Moore can put something together to convince the rfl he is the right man to take the Bulls forward , he requested a £500k advance from the rfl to tide them over however how much money can Mark really generate from selling beds online ? I doubt it would ever come close enough to be able to fund being the chairman of the bulls and indeed at the time he took over I said to myself how is he able to do so with seemingly little or no money.

Ultimately the people who come forward with some money ie the bloke from London should be considered to enable him to find further like minded people with some money behind them.

Moore and Co need to stop pretending they can ever hope to pull this off and if they can why is Moore having non of his own money down ?
Look at Mr Lamb`s accounts he is also a ten Bob Millionare a turn over of £420000 per year does not make him a cash rich investor. He needs to clarify & confirm if he will invest & not just use projected ticket sales & sponsership as a guide to his plan.
[quote][p][bold]JOHNJOHNNY[/bold] wrote: I have never commented on this situation before however one question I keep asking is how Mark Moore can put something together to convince the rfl he is the right man to take the Bulls forward , he requested a £500k advance from the rfl to tide them over however how much money can Mark really generate from selling beds online ? I doubt it would ever come close enough to be able to fund being the chairman of the bulls and indeed at the time he took over I said to myself how is he able to do so with seemingly little or no money. Ultimately the people who come forward with some money ie the bloke from London should be considered to enable him to find further like minded people with some money behind them. Moore and Co need to stop pretending they can ever hope to pull this off and if they can why is Moore having non of his own money down ?[/p][/quote]Look at Mr Lamb`s accounts he is also a ten Bob Millionare a turn over of £420000 per year does not make him a cash rich investor. He needs to clarify & confirm if he will invest & not just use projected ticket sales & sponsership as a guide to his plan. bullybullman
  • Score: 2

4:42pm Wed 26 Feb 14

AUGUST1964 says...

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
The people to blame for this whole shambles are Khan and Sutcliffe. They were given a clean slate and ran up £1.2m of debt. This is the debt that can't be repaid hence the 6 point deduction. They failed to pay the players on time which is why the RFL want to put special sanctions on the club as they see it happening again. They made the only way for anyone to take the club off them was through Admin. If you want to point the finger of blame it should be at Khan and Sutcliffe, not the RFL.
Make your mind up who is at fault,yesterday it was all Moores fault now its Khan and Sutcliffe.
You know as much as I do about all of this,only what you read on here,my friend we know nothing of what happens behind closed doors and much of what has happened during all of this we will probably never know,with this in mind I would suggest that many of the bullets you fire may be blank.
[quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: The people to blame for this whole shambles are Khan and Sutcliffe. They were given a clean slate and ran up £1.2m of debt. This is the debt that can't be repaid hence the 6 point deduction. They failed to pay the players on time which is why the RFL want to put special sanctions on the club as they see it happening again. They made the only way for anyone to take the club off them was through Admin. If you want to point the finger of blame it should be at Khan and Sutcliffe, not the RFL.[/p][/quote]Make your mind up who is at fault,yesterday it was all Moores fault now its Khan and Sutcliffe. You know as much as I do about all of this,only what you read on here,my friend we know nothing of what happens behind closed doors and much of what has happened during all of this we will probably never know,with this in mind I would suggest that many of the bullets you fire may be blank. AUGUST1964
  • Score: 1

4:58pm Wed 26 Feb 14

tinytoonster says...

handoff wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
The people to blame for this whole shambles are Khan and Sutcliffe. They were given a clean slate and ran up £1.2m of debt. This is the debt that can't be repaid hence the 6 point deduction.
They failed to pay the players on time which is why the RFL want to put special sanctions on the club as they see it happening again.
They made the only way for anyone to take the club off them was through Admin.
If you want to point the finger of blame it should be at Khan and Sutcliffe, not the RFL.
A few points if I may ...

1. The first part of the assertion is completely correct and clear, and I would welcome an investigation by the fraud office into Khan and Whitcut.

2. Posts on this site calling the board inept are so far from the mark as to be risible, it is so easy to be an armchair critic when people are working all hours to keep this club alive.

3. The RFL are stewards of our game, however their track record of the last couple of decades is poor - the Eddie Stobbart sponsorship fiasco and the proposed nonsensical restructuring of the leagues are two cases in point. The points deduction is to prevent a side gaining financial advantage by use of administration to clear debts, however, given the halving and redistribution of Sky monies, there can be no possible case to suggest Bulls are gaining a meaningful advantage.

4. Ask yourself this. Would the RFL treat Wigan in a similar way? Do you remember the issues they had a few years back and the dubious way they were allowed to avoid relegation? The rest of the clubs should be very worried as their gates are about to fall substantially when there are no Bulls fans coming.

5. Let us spare a thought for the coaching, playing and administration staff at this time. They are the ones whose livelihoods are in jeopardy. Let us thank them for all the hard work they are doing in stressful times and turn up on Saturday to applaud them

6. On a broader point, in my opinion there is a strong case for Superleague to again run its own competition and decide its own fate. The remit of the governing body is too wide with too many conflicting interests to allow administration of the 'jewel in the crown' of rugby league.

7. The international game is the key to the sport's success in this century. To this end I believe a 10 team competition would best provide for the intensity of games needed to achieve this success. Let me make that point again: four teams would need to be relegated to a lower tier, and I would not be in favour of annual promotion/relegation as it would weaken growth. Only a sustained, improved and Superleague run licencing system can deliver this (not the RFL). Currently this would mean several sets of fans would be bitterly disappointed but that is the sort of restructuring that is required, even if it means mergers. Adapt or die.

I am very angry about this and there are a few people I would like to have a quiet close up chat with.
yeah great idea, lets drop to ten teams.
bulls would be one of them relegated!
too much hassle for rfl to not do so.
[quote][p][bold]handoff[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: The people to blame for this whole shambles are Khan and Sutcliffe. They were given a clean slate and ran up £1.2m of debt. This is the debt that can't be repaid hence the 6 point deduction. They failed to pay the players on time which is why the RFL want to put special sanctions on the club as they see it happening again. They made the only way for anyone to take the club off them was through Admin. If you want to point the finger of blame it should be at Khan and Sutcliffe, not the RFL.[/p][/quote]A few points if I may ... 1. The first part of the assertion is completely correct and clear, and I would welcome an investigation by the fraud office into Khan and Whitcut. 2. Posts on this site calling the board inept are so far from the mark as to be risible, it is so easy to be an armchair critic when people are working all hours to keep this club alive. 3. The RFL are stewards of our game, however their track record of the last couple of decades is poor - the Eddie Stobbart sponsorship fiasco and the proposed nonsensical restructuring of the leagues are two cases in point. The points deduction is to prevent a side gaining financial advantage by use of administration to clear debts, however, given the halving and redistribution of Sky monies, there can be no possible case to suggest Bulls are gaining a meaningful advantage. 4. Ask yourself this. Would the RFL treat Wigan in a similar way? Do you remember the issues they had a few years back and the dubious way they were allowed to avoid relegation? The rest of the clubs should be very worried as their gates are about to fall substantially when there are no Bulls fans coming. 5. Let us spare a thought for the coaching, playing and administration staff at this time. They are the ones whose livelihoods are in jeopardy. Let us thank them for all the hard work they are doing in stressful times and turn up on Saturday to applaud them 6. On a broader point, in my opinion there is a strong case for Superleague to again run its own competition and decide its own fate. The remit of the governing body is too wide with too many conflicting interests to allow administration of the 'jewel in the crown' of rugby league. 7. The international game is the key to the sport's success in this century. To this end I believe a 10 team competition would best provide for the intensity of games needed to achieve this success. Let me make that point again: four teams would need to be relegated to a lower tier, and I would not be in favour of annual promotion/relegation as it would weaken growth. Only a sustained, improved and Superleague run licencing system can deliver this (not the RFL). Currently this would mean several sets of fans would be bitterly disappointed but that is the sort of restructuring that is required, even if it means mergers. Adapt or die. I am very angry about this and there are a few people I would like to have a quiet close up chat with.[/p][/quote]yeah great idea, lets drop to ten teams. bulls would be one of them relegated! too much hassle for rfl to not do so. tinytoonster
  • Score: 1

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