Road to Bradford Bulls recovery starts now

Bradford Telegraph and Argus: Robbie Hunter-Paul is not expecting a raft of staff departures as the Bulls look to cut costs Robbie Hunter-Paul is not expecting a raft of staff departures as the Bulls look to cut costs

Robbie Hunter-Paul believes this week’s fans’ forum was the first step towards rebuilding the Bulls as he announced that no players or staff had yet departed.

Supporters were told of the club’s dire financial position at Wednesday’s forum as it was revealed that savings of £400,000 must be made during the next 12 months.

It was announced that a number of Francis Cummins’ players could possibly leave to ease the financial burden and that administration and backroom staff would also go.

While Hunter-Paul admitted that jobs would be lost in the coming days, he said none had occurred as yet in any department.

Brett Kearney confirmed he would be returning in January after heading back to Australia for Christmas early due to an injury which has sidelined him.

Chief executive Hunter-Paul explained: “Nobody has made any contact with me regarding players as yet but I don’t expect there to be big departures anyway.

“It will probably be one or two players at the most – even if it is one or two.

“A lot of Super League clubs are at their full quota of players anyway and it wouldn’t be possible for them to bring in new players.”

Hunter-Paul admitted the year ahead would be tough as the club look to make huge savings.

But he insisted significant progress had been made with regards to relationships with existing sponsors and potential new ones, giving the club vital cash injections.

“I think Wednesday night was the first step in taking the club back where it belongs,” said Hunter-Paul.

“For a lot of people it would have felt like rock-bottom – but it’s not because during the untangling over the past six weeks, we’ve also been working towards bringing in new income and building everything back up.

“I can confidently say that next season we will have a brand new portfolio of
sponsors on the playing shirts, which is going to deliver probably the biggest cash value the Bulls has ever seen.

“This is a big club and a big city with a lot of brilliant opportunities here.

“A lot of fans said to me at the forum ‘I bet you wish you hadn’t come back to the club?’
“But I’m the opposite. The past four months have been tough, don’t get me wrong, and they have tested me.

“But I’ve learnt so much from the experience and I’ve grown as a person.

“I’m a competitor and I proved that when I was a player. I’m up for the
challenge.”

Meanwhile, the club’s previous regime are understood to be considering a response to the claims made by the current board of directors.

Mark Moore, Ian Watt and Andrew Calvert claimed in a statement that “as each day goes by the board continues to receive more information detrimental to the stability of the business”.

* Sponsors Provident Personal Credit are standing by the Bulls ahead of the 2014 Super League
campaign.

A spokesperson for the Bradford-based firm said: “Everyone at Provident has enjoyed the first year of our partnership with Bulls enormously.

“We are pleased to see the new board of directors, Robbie and his staff working hard behind the scenes to give the club the solid foundations it needs to secure its long-term future.”

Comments (64)

Please log in to enable comment sorting

8:24am Fri 6 Dec 13

Thee Voice of Reason says...

Missing Person : Viking. If seen feed with a large portion of Humble pie.
Missing Person : Viking. If seen feed with a large portion of Humble pie. Thee Voice of Reason

8:56am Fri 6 Dec 13

Pablo says...

Haven't we heard this story before?!? You're whistling in the dark, Robbie. Remember, you were here under the last regime...that failed. You're here now...and it's still failing.
Haven't we heard this story before?!? You're whistling in the dark, Robbie. Remember, you were here under the last regime...that failed. You're here now...and it's still failing. Pablo

9:11am Fri 6 Dec 13

Lythambull says...

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
Missing Person : Viking. If seen feed with a large portion of Humble pie.
I think it's important to remember that whilst you wriggle with glee that you were proven right and taunt your online " nemesis" that people who work day to day at the bulls; in admin roles, in the shop, cleaning, and depend on those jobs to pay their mortgages etc are more than likely going to be made redundant just before or just after Christmas.
Maybe you should think less about your small personal victory and more about the people who are going to suffer as a result of what's going in at the Bulls?
E
[quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: Missing Person : Viking. If seen feed with a large portion of Humble pie.[/p][/quote]I think it's important to remember that whilst you wriggle with glee that you were proven right and taunt your online " nemesis" that people who work day to day at the bulls; in admin roles, in the shop, cleaning, and depend on those jobs to pay their mortgages etc are more than likely going to be made redundant just before or just after Christmas. Maybe you should think less about your small personal victory and more about the people who are going to suffer as a result of what's going in at the Bulls? E Lythambull

9:19am Fri 6 Dec 13

expatbull says...

Lythambull wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
Missing Person : Viking. If seen feed with a large portion of Humble pie.
I think it's important to remember that whilst you wriggle with glee that you were proven right and taunt your online " nemesis" that people who work day to day at the bulls; in admin roles, in the shop, cleaning, and depend on those jobs to pay their mortgages etc are more than likely going to be made redundant just before or just after Christmas.
Maybe you should think less about your small personal victory and more about the people who are going to suffer as a result of what's going in at the Bulls?
E
Dont worry Vikings reading all you usual rubbish VOR but hes otherwise engaged, strange you find time to "gloat" when you get a small personal victory but how many times has Viking rubbished your comments and you have "TAKEN " a few days off to lick your wounds.
He will be back soon and torment you , after all he likes feeding trolls its his hobby.
Off to meet up with him now for a few beers,sure hes p*****g himself laughing at you.
[quote][p][bold]Lythambull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: Missing Person : Viking. If seen feed with a large portion of Humble pie.[/p][/quote]I think it's important to remember that whilst you wriggle with glee that you were proven right and taunt your online " nemesis" that people who work day to day at the bulls; in admin roles, in the shop, cleaning, and depend on those jobs to pay their mortgages etc are more than likely going to be made redundant just before or just after Christmas. Maybe you should think less about your small personal victory and more about the people who are going to suffer as a result of what's going in at the Bulls? E[/p][/quote]Dont worry Vikings reading all you usual rubbish VOR but hes otherwise engaged, strange you find time to "gloat" when you get a small personal victory but how many times has Viking rubbished your comments and you have "TAKEN " a few days off to lick your wounds. He will be back soon and torment you , after all he likes feeding trolls its his hobby. Off to meet up with him now for a few beers,sure hes p*****g himself laughing at you. expatbull

9:22am Fri 6 Dec 13

expatbull says...

Pablo wrote:
Haven't we heard this story before?!? You're whistling in the dark, Robbie. Remember, you were here under the last regime...that failed. You're here now...and it's still failing.
shame you and your troll friends cant be put where RW hides all the crap.
[quote][p][bold]Pablo[/bold] wrote: Haven't we heard this story before?!? You're whistling in the dark, Robbie. Remember, you were here under the last regime...that failed. You're here now...and it's still failing.[/p][/quote]shame you and your troll friends cant be put where RW hides all the crap. expatbull

9:24am Fri 6 Dec 13

BCFC1234 says...

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
Missing Person : Viking. If seen feed with a large portion of Humble pie.
your a joke of a person
[quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: Missing Person : Viking. If seen feed with a large portion of Humble pie.[/p][/quote]your a joke of a person BCFC1234

9:24am Fri 6 Dec 13

Thee Voice of Reason says...

expatbull wrote:
Lythambull wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
Missing Person : Viking. If seen feed with a large portion of Humble pie.
I think it's important to remember that whilst you wriggle with glee that you were proven right and taunt your online " nemesis" that people who work day to day at the bulls; in admin roles, in the shop, cleaning, and depend on those jobs to pay their mortgages etc are more than likely going to be made redundant just before or just after Christmas.
Maybe you should think less about your small personal victory and more about the people who are going to suffer as a result of what's going in at the Bulls?
E
Dont worry Vikings reading all you usual rubbish VOR but hes otherwise engaged, strange you find time to "gloat" when you get a small personal victory but how many times has Viking rubbished your comments and you have "TAKEN " a few days off to lick your wounds.
He will be back soon and torment you , after all he likes feeding trolls its his hobby.
Off to meet up with him now for a few beers,sure hes p*****g himself laughing at you.
That would be never.
Look at yesterday. Lots of people saying they were attacked by him for not sharing the same opinion to the extent they left the forum.
I know people who are involved so don't come across all high and mighty and these are the people who kept me in the know but others didn't want to believe it.
The biggest tragedy in all this is how Sutcliffe, Whitcut and Khan can walk away without a second thought and no financial consequences.
[quote][p][bold]expatbull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lythambull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: Missing Person : Viking. If seen feed with a large portion of Humble pie.[/p][/quote]I think it's important to remember that whilst you wriggle with glee that you were proven right and taunt your online " nemesis" that people who work day to day at the bulls; in admin roles, in the shop, cleaning, and depend on those jobs to pay their mortgages etc are more than likely going to be made redundant just before or just after Christmas. Maybe you should think less about your small personal victory and more about the people who are going to suffer as a result of what's going in at the Bulls? E[/p][/quote]Dont worry Vikings reading all you usual rubbish VOR but hes otherwise engaged, strange you find time to "gloat" when you get a small personal victory but how many times has Viking rubbished your comments and you have "TAKEN " a few days off to lick your wounds. He will be back soon and torment you , after all he likes feeding trolls its his hobby. Off to meet up with him now for a few beers,sure hes p*****g himself laughing at you.[/p][/quote]That would be never. Look at yesterday. Lots of people saying they were attacked by him for not sharing the same opinion to the extent they left the forum. I know people who are involved so don't come across all high and mighty and these are the people who kept me in the know but others didn't want to believe it. The biggest tragedy in all this is how Sutcliffe, Whitcut and Khan can walk away without a second thought and no financial consequences. Thee Voice of Reason

9:54am Fri 6 Dec 13

Apollo says...

What - another re-birth? How many can we expect?
What - another re-birth? How many can we expect? Apollo

10:05am Fri 6 Dec 13

MeccaBingo1 says...

I told you Robbie, distance yourself from this circus, just waiting now sadly for administration some time soon. All Directors will not be here for long as I've stated before they don’t have a pot to p*** in between them and resemble a pub dart team!
I told you Robbie, distance yourself from this circus, just waiting now sadly for administration some time soon. All Directors will not be here for long as I've stated before they don’t have a pot to p*** in between them and resemble a pub dart team! MeccaBingo1

10:08am Fri 6 Dec 13

Thee Voice of Reason says...

Lythambull wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
Missing Person : Viking. If seen feed with a large portion of Humble pie.
I think it's important to remember that whilst you wriggle with glee that you were proven right and taunt your online " nemesis" that people who work day to day at the bulls; in admin roles, in the shop, cleaning, and depend on those jobs to pay their mortgages etc are more than likely going to be made redundant just before or just after Christmas.
Maybe you should think less about your small personal victory and more about the people who are going to suffer as a result of what's going in at the Bulls?
E
As I have said I know some of these people and these are the same people who raised concerns.
Meanwhile Khan, Sutcliffe and Whitcut disappear into the sunset. No financial worries still proclaiming themselves as the saviours.
[quote][p][bold]Lythambull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: Missing Person : Viking. If seen feed with a large portion of Humble pie.[/p][/quote]I think it's important to remember that whilst you wriggle with glee that you were proven right and taunt your online " nemesis" that people who work day to day at the bulls; in admin roles, in the shop, cleaning, and depend on those jobs to pay their mortgages etc are more than likely going to be made redundant just before or just after Christmas. Maybe you should think less about your small personal victory and more about the people who are going to suffer as a result of what's going in at the Bulls? E[/p][/quote]As I have said I know some of these people and these are the same people who raised concerns. Meanwhile Khan, Sutcliffe and Whitcut disappear into the sunset. No financial worries still proclaiming themselves as the saviours. Thee Voice of Reason

10:15am Fri 6 Dec 13

mines a pint says...

What is troubling in this latest debacle at Odsal is the statement

"Directors Mark Moore, Ian Watt and Andrew Calvert claimed in a statement that “as each day goes by the board continues to receive more information detrimental to the stability of the business”."

Having been involved in the take over of a business & been part of the management team of a business that was being acquired by another business I have some understanding of the processes involved

Once a tacit agreement has been reached between two organisations there follows a period referred to as due diligence before any formal contract of sale / acquisition is finalised

This period is used to confirm that the net worth of the business to be acquired as declared by its current directors & financial accounts is actually accurate

It goes without saying that there is a legal responsibility on registered directors of a company to ensure that the accounts of a business truly reflect its standing at the time they were produced and any information material to the longevity of the business is declared both within the numbers & the narrative which forms the directors reports.

A fundamental part of this is the declaration of all its creditors and this would certainly include information on creditors / loans who would be "detrimental to the stability of the business"

As I understand it failure to declare ANY information which could materially affect the performance of a business is a criminal offence

The normal process of acquiring a company would involve a thorough investigation of the published account moreover the due diligence process should seek to confirm that the trading position of the business is as stated in the accounts it is also not uncommon where the last published accounts are some months old for a company to re state its accounts based on the current position as part of the documents presented to potential buyers

The current board does stop some way short of accusing the previous administration of deliberately covering up the full extent of the businesses debts but I can't help feeling that that is what they are trying to imply

“The last administrative team struggled to understand the full impact of running this club and stepped away from the business with large outstanding debts which the club now needs to recover from.”

But here too there is cause for concern

At what point did the present board know the club had "large outstanding debts" are these debts the same as the "information detrimental to the stability of the business" we must assume not as the need to save £400k is being reported in such away that we are made to think the new board were not aware of this until recently and had budgeted accordingly for the "large debts" left by the previous administration but not this £400k

An interesting point that seems to be overlooked in this report is that as well as there being a responsibility on the outgoing administration to ensure financial & trading statements accurately reflect the position of the business there is equal responsibility on the acquiring organisation to conduct the process of due diligence with due care and attention

In my experience this usually involves the appointment of a team of experts drawn from the senior executives of the acquiring business and more importantly supported & guided by independent financial & legal advisor's

I am really struggling to see how "information detrimental to the stability of the business" would not have been uncovered if the process of due diligence had been undertaken correctly

Now of course the level of due diligence undertaken is often a factor of who the acquiring board are accountable to. In my case the business had a net worth of £50 million was listed on the UK stock exchange & was being acquired by a substantially larger organisation list on NASDAQ

In this situation both boards were accountable to the share holders and the process of due diligence took around 3 months to complete before the takeover was finally ratified

So that leaves me with the following questions:

1) What level of due diligence was undertaken if any (remember one of the original share holders failed the RFL's fit and proper persons test wouldn't this have been know if the correct due diligence had taken place.)?

2) Did the new board appoint appropriate independent advisor's to assist them in this process & if so who?

3) If independent advisor's were appointed & failed to uncover facts material to the future existence of the business what action are the board proposing to take against these advisor's to seek redress?

4) Has the process of due diligence actually been completed yet & if it has not are we likely to see the current board walk away from the takeover? I suspect the deal has been done with the previous regime given that OK has nothing further to do with the club & the RFL has sanctioned the takeover however it does not stop them walking away & leaving us with nothing!!

I sincerely hope that over the coming months we do not see a return to the public bickering & mud slinging that we witnessed recently between Messrs Hood & Caisley et al.

The board should not be detracted from the task at hand by publicly trying to apportion blame on someone else. If they had undertaken a comprehensive process of due diligence prior to their acquisition they would have been fully aware of the position of the club they therefore must assume a certain degree of responsibility

If on the other hand there is clear evidence to suggest material information was deliberately hidden from them to secure the sale of the club then they should pursue this through the correct legal channels

We are already the laughing stock of the RFL / Superleague & do not require any more of our dirty laundry washing so publicly

As a life long supporter of Northern & the Bulls I have already purchased my season ticket & to be honest I would have done so regardless of what division we play in that is what real supporter do!!

Many in Bradford do not have a great deal to be proud of. For to long the City has been the butt of comedians jokes. Over the years the condition of our once proud city has fallen further & further behind its neighbours. Leeds is clearly the 1st city of West Yorkshire but it is alarming that smaller towns such as Halifax & Wakefield have the ability to re generate re brand themselves & attract significant sums of investment in shopping centres housing & the arts whilst all we have to show are abandoned projects derelict buildings & a puddle outside the town hall

At least for 28 weeks of the year we could put all this to one side for 80 minutes & get behind the team I only hope that mismanagement does not take that away from us also!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What is troubling in this latest debacle at Odsal is the statement "Directors Mark Moore, Ian Watt and Andrew Calvert claimed in a statement that “as each day goes by the board continues to receive more information detrimental to the stability of the business”." Having been involved in the take over of a business & been part of the management team of a business that was being acquired by another business I have some understanding of the processes involved Once a tacit agreement has been reached between two organisations there follows a period referred to as due diligence before any formal contract of sale / acquisition is finalised This period is used to confirm that the net worth of the business to be acquired as declared by its current directors & financial accounts is actually accurate It goes without saying that there is a legal responsibility on registered directors of a company to ensure that the accounts of a business truly reflect its standing at the time they were produced and any information material to the longevity of the business is declared both within the numbers & the narrative which forms the directors reports. A fundamental part of this is the declaration of all its creditors and this would certainly include information on creditors / loans who would be "detrimental to the stability of the business" As I understand it failure to declare ANY information which could materially affect the performance of a business is a criminal offence The normal process of acquiring a company would involve a thorough investigation of the published account moreover the due diligence process should seek to confirm that the trading position of the business is as stated in the accounts it is also not uncommon where the last published accounts are some months old for a company to re state its accounts based on the current position as part of the documents presented to potential buyers The current board does stop some way short of accusing the previous administration of deliberately covering up the full extent of the businesses debts but I can't help feeling that that is what they are trying to imply “The last administrative team struggled to understand the full impact of running this club and stepped away from the business with large outstanding debts which the club now needs to recover from.” But here too there is cause for concern At what point did the present board know the club had "large outstanding debts" are these debts the same as the "information detrimental to the stability of the business" we must assume not as the need to save £400k is being reported in such away that we are made to think the new board were not aware of this until recently and had budgeted accordingly for the "large debts" left by the previous administration but not this £400k An interesting point that seems to be overlooked in this report is that as well as there being a responsibility on the outgoing administration to ensure financial & trading statements accurately reflect the position of the business there is equal responsibility on the acquiring organisation to conduct the process of due diligence with due care and attention In my experience this usually involves the appointment of a team of experts drawn from the senior executives of the acquiring business and more importantly supported & guided by independent financial & legal advisor's I am really struggling to see how "information detrimental to the stability of the business" would not have been uncovered if the process of due diligence had been undertaken correctly Now of course the level of due diligence undertaken is often a factor of who the acquiring board are accountable to. In my case the business had a net worth of £50 million was listed on the UK stock exchange & was being acquired by a substantially larger organisation list on NASDAQ In this situation both boards were accountable to the share holders and the process of due diligence took around 3 months to complete before the takeover was finally ratified So that leaves me with the following questions: 1) What level of due diligence was undertaken if any (remember one of the original share holders failed the RFL's fit and proper persons test wouldn't this have been know if the correct due diligence had taken place.)? 2) Did the new board appoint appropriate independent advisor's to assist them in this process & if so who? 3) If independent advisor's were appointed & failed to uncover facts material to the future existence of the business what action are the board proposing to take against these advisor's to seek redress? 4) Has the process of due diligence actually been completed yet & if it has not are we likely to see the current board walk away from the takeover? I suspect the deal has been done with the previous regime given that OK has nothing further to do with the club & the RFL has sanctioned the takeover however it does not stop them walking away & leaving us with nothing!! I sincerely hope that over the coming months we do not see a return to the public bickering & mud slinging that we witnessed recently between Messrs Hood & Caisley et al. The board should not be detracted from the task at hand by publicly trying to apportion blame on someone else. If they had undertaken a comprehensive process of due diligence prior to their acquisition they would have been fully aware of the position of the club they therefore must assume a certain degree of responsibility If on the other hand there is clear evidence to suggest material information was deliberately hidden from them to secure the sale of the club then they should pursue this through the correct legal channels We are already the laughing stock of the RFL / Superleague & do not require any more of our dirty laundry washing so publicly As a life long supporter of Northern & the Bulls I have already purchased my season ticket & to be honest I would have done so regardless of what division we play in that is what real supporter do!! Many in Bradford do not have a great deal to be proud of. For to long the City has been the butt of comedians jokes. Over the years the condition of our once proud city has fallen further & further behind its neighbours. Leeds is clearly the 1st city of West Yorkshire but it is alarming that smaller towns such as Halifax & Wakefield have the ability to re generate re brand themselves & attract significant sums of investment in shopping centres housing & the arts whilst all we have to show are abandoned projects derelict buildings & a puddle outside the town hall At least for 28 weeks of the year we could put all this to one side for 80 minutes & get behind the team I only hope that mismanagement does not take that away from us also!!!!!!!!!!!!! mines a pint

10:27am Fri 6 Dec 13

stiflers mom says...

mines a pint wrote:
What is troubling in this latest debacle at Odsal is the statement

"Directors Mark Moore, Ian Watt and Andrew Calvert claimed in a statement that “as each day goes by the board continues to receive more information detrimental to the stability of the business”."

Having been involved in the take over of a business & been part of the management team of a business that was being acquired by another business I have some understanding of the processes involved

Once a tacit agreement has been reached between two organisations there follows a period referred to as due diligence before any formal contract of sale / acquisition is finalised

This period is used to confirm that the net worth of the business to be acquired as declared by its current directors & financial accounts is actually accurate

It goes without saying that there is a legal responsibility on registered directors of a company to ensure that the accounts of a business truly reflect its standing at the time they were produced and any information material to the longevity of the business is declared both within the numbers & the narrative which forms the directors reports.

A fundamental part of this is the declaration of all its creditors and this would certainly include information on creditors / loans who would be "detrimental to the stability of the business"

As I understand it failure to declare ANY information which could materially affect the performance of a business is a criminal offence

The normal process of acquiring a company would involve a thorough investigation of the published account moreover the due diligence process should seek to confirm that the trading position of the business is as stated in the accounts it is also not uncommon where the last published accounts are some months old for a company to re state its accounts based on the current position as part of the documents presented to potential buyers

The current board does stop some way short of accusing the previous administration of deliberately covering up the full extent of the businesses debts but I can't help feeling that that is what they are trying to imply

“The last administrative team struggled to understand the full impact of running this club and stepped away from the business with large outstanding debts which the club now needs to recover from.”

But here too there is cause for concern

At what point did the present board know the club had "large outstanding debts" are these debts the same as the "information detrimental to the stability of the business" we must assume not as the need to save £400k is being reported in such away that we are made to think the new board were not aware of this until recently and had budgeted accordingly for the "large debts" left by the previous administration but not this £400k

An interesting point that seems to be overlooked in this report is that as well as there being a responsibility on the outgoing administration to ensure financial & trading statements accurately reflect the position of the business there is equal responsibility on the acquiring organisation to conduct the process of due diligence with due care and attention

In my experience this usually involves the appointment of a team of experts drawn from the senior executives of the acquiring business and more importantly supported & guided by independent financial & legal advisor's

I am really struggling to see how "information detrimental to the stability of the business" would not have been uncovered if the process of due diligence had been undertaken correctly

Now of course the level of due diligence undertaken is often a factor of who the acquiring board are accountable to. In my case the business had a net worth of £50 million was listed on the UK stock exchange & was being acquired by a substantially larger organisation list on NASDAQ

In this situation both boards were accountable to the share holders and the process of due diligence took around 3 months to complete before the takeover was finally ratified

So that leaves me with the following questions:

1) What level of due diligence was undertaken if any (remember one of the original share holders failed the RFL's fit and proper persons test wouldn't this have been know if the correct due diligence had taken place.)?

2) Did the new board appoint appropriate independent advisor's to assist them in this process & if so who?

3) If independent advisor's were appointed & failed to uncover facts material to the future existence of the business what action are the board proposing to take against these advisor's to seek redress?

4) Has the process of due diligence actually been completed yet & if it has not are we likely to see the current board walk away from the takeover? I suspect the deal has been done with the previous regime given that OK has nothing further to do with the club & the RFL has sanctioned the takeover however it does not stop them walking away & leaving us with nothing!!

I sincerely hope that over the coming months we do not see a return to the public bickering & mud slinging that we witnessed recently between Messrs Hood & Caisley et al.

The board should not be detracted from the task at hand by publicly trying to apportion blame on someone else. If they had undertaken a comprehensive process of due diligence prior to their acquisition they would have been fully aware of the position of the club they therefore must assume a certain degree of responsibility

If on the other hand there is clear evidence to suggest material information was deliberately hidden from them to secure the sale of the club then they should pursue this through the correct legal channels

We are already the laughing stock of the RFL / Superleague & do not require any more of our dirty laundry washing so publicly

As a life long supporter of Northern & the Bulls I have already purchased my season ticket & to be honest I would have done so regardless of what division we play in that is what real supporter do!!

Many in Bradford do not have a great deal to be proud of. For to long the City has been the butt of comedians jokes. Over the years the condition of our once proud city has fallen further & further behind its neighbours. Leeds is clearly the 1st city of West Yorkshire but it is alarming that smaller towns such as Halifax & Wakefield have the ability to re generate re brand themselves & attract significant sums of investment in shopping centres housing & the arts whilst all we have to show are abandoned projects derelict buildings & a puddle outside the town hall

At least for 28 weeks of the year we could put all this to one side for 80 minutes & get behind the team I only hope that mismanagement does not take that away from us also!!!!!!!!!!!!!
easy for you to say !!!
[quote][p][bold]mines a pint[/bold] wrote: What is troubling in this latest debacle at Odsal is the statement "Directors Mark Moore, Ian Watt and Andrew Calvert claimed in a statement that “as each day goes by the board continues to receive more information detrimental to the stability of the business”." Having been involved in the take over of a business & been part of the management team of a business that was being acquired by another business I have some understanding of the processes involved Once a tacit agreement has been reached between two organisations there follows a period referred to as due diligence before any formal contract of sale / acquisition is finalised This period is used to confirm that the net worth of the business to be acquired as declared by its current directors & financial accounts is actually accurate It goes without saying that there is a legal responsibility on registered directors of a company to ensure that the accounts of a business truly reflect its standing at the time they were produced and any information material to the longevity of the business is declared both within the numbers & the narrative which forms the directors reports. A fundamental part of this is the declaration of all its creditors and this would certainly include information on creditors / loans who would be "detrimental to the stability of the business" As I understand it failure to declare ANY information which could materially affect the performance of a business is a criminal offence The normal process of acquiring a company would involve a thorough investigation of the published account moreover the due diligence process should seek to confirm that the trading position of the business is as stated in the accounts it is also not uncommon where the last published accounts are some months old for a company to re state its accounts based on the current position as part of the documents presented to potential buyers The current board does stop some way short of accusing the previous administration of deliberately covering up the full extent of the businesses debts but I can't help feeling that that is what they are trying to imply “The last administrative team struggled to understand the full impact of running this club and stepped away from the business with large outstanding debts which the club now needs to recover from.” But here too there is cause for concern At what point did the present board know the club had "large outstanding debts" are these debts the same as the "information detrimental to the stability of the business" we must assume not as the need to save £400k is being reported in such away that we are made to think the new board were not aware of this until recently and had budgeted accordingly for the "large debts" left by the previous administration but not this £400k An interesting point that seems to be overlooked in this report is that as well as there being a responsibility on the outgoing administration to ensure financial & trading statements accurately reflect the position of the business there is equal responsibility on the acquiring organisation to conduct the process of due diligence with due care and attention In my experience this usually involves the appointment of a team of experts drawn from the senior executives of the acquiring business and more importantly supported & guided by independent financial & legal advisor's I am really struggling to see how "information detrimental to the stability of the business" would not have been uncovered if the process of due diligence had been undertaken correctly Now of course the level of due diligence undertaken is often a factor of who the acquiring board are accountable to. In my case the business had a net worth of £50 million was listed on the UK stock exchange & was being acquired by a substantially larger organisation list on NASDAQ In this situation both boards were accountable to the share holders and the process of due diligence took around 3 months to complete before the takeover was finally ratified So that leaves me with the following questions: 1) What level of due diligence was undertaken if any (remember one of the original share holders failed the RFL's fit and proper persons test wouldn't this have been know if the correct due diligence had taken place.)? 2) Did the new board appoint appropriate independent advisor's to assist them in this process & if so who? 3) If independent advisor's were appointed & failed to uncover facts material to the future existence of the business what action are the board proposing to take against these advisor's to seek redress? 4) Has the process of due diligence actually been completed yet & if it has not are we likely to see the current board walk away from the takeover? I suspect the deal has been done with the previous regime given that OK has nothing further to do with the club & the RFL has sanctioned the takeover however it does not stop them walking away & leaving us with nothing!! I sincerely hope that over the coming months we do not see a return to the public bickering & mud slinging that we witnessed recently between Messrs Hood & Caisley et al. The board should not be detracted from the task at hand by publicly trying to apportion blame on someone else. If they had undertaken a comprehensive process of due diligence prior to their acquisition they would have been fully aware of the position of the club they therefore must assume a certain degree of responsibility If on the other hand there is clear evidence to suggest material information was deliberately hidden from them to secure the sale of the club then they should pursue this through the correct legal channels We are already the laughing stock of the RFL / Superleague & do not require any more of our dirty laundry washing so publicly As a life long supporter of Northern & the Bulls I have already purchased my season ticket & to be honest I would have done so regardless of what division we play in that is what real supporter do!! Many in Bradford do not have a great deal to be proud of. For to long the City has been the butt of comedians jokes. Over the years the condition of our once proud city has fallen further & further behind its neighbours. Leeds is clearly the 1st city of West Yorkshire but it is alarming that smaller towns such as Halifax & Wakefield have the ability to re generate re brand themselves & attract significant sums of investment in shopping centres housing & the arts whilst all we have to show are abandoned projects derelict buildings & a puddle outside the town hall At least for 28 weeks of the year we could put all this to one side for 80 minutes & get behind the team I only hope that mismanagement does not take that away from us also!!!!!!!!!!!!![/p][/quote]easy for you to say !!! stiflers mom

10:48am Fri 6 Dec 13

mines a pint says...

stiflers mom wrote:
mines a pint wrote:
What is troubling in this latest debacle at Odsal is the statement

"Directors Mark Moore, Ian Watt and Andrew Calvert claimed in a statement that “as each day goes by the board continues to receive more information detrimental to the stability of the business”."

Having been involved in the take over of a business & been part of the management team of a business that was being acquired by another business I have some understanding of the processes involved

Once a tacit agreement has been reached between two organisations there follows a period referred to as due diligence before any formal contract of sale / acquisition is finalised

This period is used to confirm that the net worth of the business to be acquired as declared by its current directors & financial accounts is actually accurate

It goes without saying that there is a legal responsibility on registered directors of a company to ensure that the accounts of a business truly reflect its standing at the time they were produced and any information material to the longevity of the business is declared both within the numbers & the narrative which forms the directors reports.

A fundamental part of this is the declaration of all its creditors and this would certainly include information on creditors / loans who would be "detrimental to the stability of the business"

As I understand it failure to declare ANY information which could materially affect the performance of a business is a criminal offence

The normal process of acquiring a company would involve a thorough investigation of the published account moreover the due diligence process should seek to confirm that the trading position of the business is as stated in the accounts it is also not uncommon where the last published accounts are some months old for a company to re state its accounts based on the current position as part of the documents presented to potential buyers

The current board does stop some way short of accusing the previous administration of deliberately covering up the full extent of the businesses debts but I can't help feeling that that is what they are trying to imply

“The last administrative team struggled to understand the full impact of running this club and stepped away from the business with large outstanding debts which the club now needs to recover from.”

But here too there is cause for concern

At what point did the present board know the club had "large outstanding debts" are these debts the same as the "information detrimental to the stability of the business" we must assume not as the need to save £400k is being reported in such away that we are made to think the new board were not aware of this until recently and had budgeted accordingly for the "large debts" left by the previous administration but not this £400k

An interesting point that seems to be overlooked in this report is that as well as there being a responsibility on the outgoing administration to ensure financial & trading statements accurately reflect the position of the business there is equal responsibility on the acquiring organisation to conduct the process of due diligence with due care and attention

In my experience this usually involves the appointment of a team of experts drawn from the senior executives of the acquiring business and more importantly supported & guided by independent financial & legal advisor's

I am really struggling to see how "information detrimental to the stability of the business" would not have been uncovered if the process of due diligence had been undertaken correctly

Now of course the level of due diligence undertaken is often a factor of who the acquiring board are accountable to. In my case the business had a net worth of £50 million was listed on the UK stock exchange & was being acquired by a substantially larger organisation list on NASDAQ

In this situation both boards were accountable to the share holders and the process of due diligence took around 3 months to complete before the takeover was finally ratified

So that leaves me with the following questions:

1) What level of due diligence was undertaken if any (remember one of the original share holders failed the RFL's fit and proper persons test wouldn't this have been know if the correct due diligence had taken place.)?

2) Did the new board appoint appropriate independent advisor's to assist them in this process & if so who?

3) If independent advisor's were appointed & failed to uncover facts material to the future existence of the business what action are the board proposing to take against these advisor's to seek redress?

4) Has the process of due diligence actually been completed yet & if it has not are we likely to see the current board walk away from the takeover? I suspect the deal has been done with the previous regime given that OK has nothing further to do with the club & the RFL has sanctioned the takeover however it does not stop them walking away & leaving us with nothing!!

I sincerely hope that over the coming months we do not see a return to the public bickering & mud slinging that we witnessed recently between Messrs Hood & Caisley et al.

The board should not be detracted from the task at hand by publicly trying to apportion blame on someone else. If they had undertaken a comprehensive process of due diligence prior to their acquisition they would have been fully aware of the position of the club they therefore must assume a certain degree of responsibility

If on the other hand there is clear evidence to suggest material information was deliberately hidden from them to secure the sale of the club then they should pursue this through the correct legal channels

We are already the laughing stock of the RFL / Superleague & do not require any more of our dirty laundry washing so publicly

As a life long supporter of Northern & the Bulls I have already purchased my season ticket & to be honest I would have done so regardless of what division we play in that is what real supporter do!!

Many in Bradford do not have a great deal to be proud of. For to long the City has been the butt of comedians jokes. Over the years the condition of our once proud city has fallen further & further behind its neighbours. Leeds is clearly the 1st city of West Yorkshire but it is alarming that smaller towns such as Halifax & Wakefield have the ability to re generate re brand themselves & attract significant sums of investment in shopping centres housing & the arts whilst all we have to show are abandoned projects derelict buildings & a puddle outside the town hall

At least for 28 weeks of the year we could put all this to one side for 80 minutes & get behind the team I only hope that mismanagement does not take that away from us also!!!!!!!!!!!!!
easy for you to say !!!
Sorry thought I would try & bring some objectivity to the forum rather than engage with the usual mud slingers :o)
[quote][p][bold]stiflers mom[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mines a pint[/bold] wrote: What is troubling in this latest debacle at Odsal is the statement "Directors Mark Moore, Ian Watt and Andrew Calvert claimed in a statement that “as each day goes by the board continues to receive more information detrimental to the stability of the business”." Having been involved in the take over of a business & been part of the management team of a business that was being acquired by another business I have some understanding of the processes involved Once a tacit agreement has been reached between two organisations there follows a period referred to as due diligence before any formal contract of sale / acquisition is finalised This period is used to confirm that the net worth of the business to be acquired as declared by its current directors & financial accounts is actually accurate It goes without saying that there is a legal responsibility on registered directors of a company to ensure that the accounts of a business truly reflect its standing at the time they were produced and any information material to the longevity of the business is declared both within the numbers & the narrative which forms the directors reports. A fundamental part of this is the declaration of all its creditors and this would certainly include information on creditors / loans who would be "detrimental to the stability of the business" As I understand it failure to declare ANY information which could materially affect the performance of a business is a criminal offence The normal process of acquiring a company would involve a thorough investigation of the published account moreover the due diligence process should seek to confirm that the trading position of the business is as stated in the accounts it is also not uncommon where the last published accounts are some months old for a company to re state its accounts based on the current position as part of the documents presented to potential buyers The current board does stop some way short of accusing the previous administration of deliberately covering up the full extent of the businesses debts but I can't help feeling that that is what they are trying to imply “The last administrative team struggled to understand the full impact of running this club and stepped away from the business with large outstanding debts which the club now needs to recover from.” But here too there is cause for concern At what point did the present board know the club had "large outstanding debts" are these debts the same as the "information detrimental to the stability of the business" we must assume not as the need to save £400k is being reported in such away that we are made to think the new board were not aware of this until recently and had budgeted accordingly for the "large debts" left by the previous administration but not this £400k An interesting point that seems to be overlooked in this report is that as well as there being a responsibility on the outgoing administration to ensure financial & trading statements accurately reflect the position of the business there is equal responsibility on the acquiring organisation to conduct the process of due diligence with due care and attention In my experience this usually involves the appointment of a team of experts drawn from the senior executives of the acquiring business and more importantly supported & guided by independent financial & legal advisor's I am really struggling to see how "information detrimental to the stability of the business" would not have been uncovered if the process of due diligence had been undertaken correctly Now of course the level of due diligence undertaken is often a factor of who the acquiring board are accountable to. In my case the business had a net worth of £50 million was listed on the UK stock exchange & was being acquired by a substantially larger organisation list on NASDAQ In this situation both boards were accountable to the share holders and the process of due diligence took around 3 months to complete before the takeover was finally ratified So that leaves me with the following questions: 1) What level of due diligence was undertaken if any (remember one of the original share holders failed the RFL's fit and proper persons test wouldn't this have been know if the correct due diligence had taken place.)? 2) Did the new board appoint appropriate independent advisor's to assist them in this process & if so who? 3) If independent advisor's were appointed & failed to uncover facts material to the future existence of the business what action are the board proposing to take against these advisor's to seek redress? 4) Has the process of due diligence actually been completed yet & if it has not are we likely to see the current board walk away from the takeover? I suspect the deal has been done with the previous regime given that OK has nothing further to do with the club & the RFL has sanctioned the takeover however it does not stop them walking away & leaving us with nothing!! I sincerely hope that over the coming months we do not see a return to the public bickering & mud slinging that we witnessed recently between Messrs Hood & Caisley et al. The board should not be detracted from the task at hand by publicly trying to apportion blame on someone else. If they had undertaken a comprehensive process of due diligence prior to their acquisition they would have been fully aware of the position of the club they therefore must assume a certain degree of responsibility If on the other hand there is clear evidence to suggest material information was deliberately hidden from them to secure the sale of the club then they should pursue this through the correct legal channels We are already the laughing stock of the RFL / Superleague & do not require any more of our dirty laundry washing so publicly As a life long supporter of Northern & the Bulls I have already purchased my season ticket & to be honest I would have done so regardless of what division we play in that is what real supporter do!! Many in Bradford do not have a great deal to be proud of. For to long the City has been the butt of comedians jokes. Over the years the condition of our once proud city has fallen further & further behind its neighbours. Leeds is clearly the 1st city of West Yorkshire but it is alarming that smaller towns such as Halifax & Wakefield have the ability to re generate re brand themselves & attract significant sums of investment in shopping centres housing & the arts whilst all we have to show are abandoned projects derelict buildings & a puddle outside the town hall At least for 28 weeks of the year we could put all this to one side for 80 minutes & get behind the team I only hope that mismanagement does not take that away from us also!!!!!!!!!!!!![/p][/quote]easy for you to say !!![/p][/quote]Sorry thought I would try & bring some objectivity to the forum rather than engage with the usual mud slingers :o) mines a pint

10:55am Fri 6 Dec 13

expatbull says...

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
expatbull wrote:
Lythambull wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
Missing Person : Viking. If seen feed with a large portion of Humble pie.
I think it's important to remember that whilst you wriggle with glee that you were proven right and taunt your online " nemesis" that people who work day to day at the bulls; in admin roles, in the shop, cleaning, and depend on those jobs to pay their mortgages etc are more than likely going to be made redundant just before or just after Christmas.
Maybe you should think less about your small personal victory and more about the people who are going to suffer as a result of what's going in at the Bulls?
E
Dont worry Vikings reading all you usual rubbish VOR but hes otherwise engaged, strange you find time to "gloat" when you get a small personal victory but how many times has Viking rubbished your comments and you have "TAKEN " a few days off to lick your wounds.
He will be back soon and torment you , after all he likes feeding trolls its his hobby.
Off to meet up with him now for a few beers,sure hes p*****g himself laughing at you.
That would be never.
Look at yesterday. Lots of people saying they were attacked by him for not sharing the same opinion to the extent they left the forum.
I know people who are involved so don't come across all high and mighty and these are the people who kept me in the know but others didn't want to believe it.
The biggest tragedy in all this is how Sutcliffe, Whitcut and Khan can walk away without a second thought and no financial consequences.
think the problem my mate Viking has with these on here including yourself is, most only post when negative stories come out of odsal when a positive report comes out the usual suspect p**s off back to Bantam land and pretend to be knowledgeable about football.
By the way Viking asked for your mums recipe for humble pie, never tried it never felt the urge,but reckons some on here will be eating it soon enough.
[quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]expatbull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lythambull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: Missing Person : Viking. If seen feed with a large portion of Humble pie.[/p][/quote]I think it's important to remember that whilst you wriggle with glee that you were proven right and taunt your online " nemesis" that people who work day to day at the bulls; in admin roles, in the shop, cleaning, and depend on those jobs to pay their mortgages etc are more than likely going to be made redundant just before or just after Christmas. Maybe you should think less about your small personal victory and more about the people who are going to suffer as a result of what's going in at the Bulls? E[/p][/quote]Dont worry Vikings reading all you usual rubbish VOR but hes otherwise engaged, strange you find time to "gloat" when you get a small personal victory but how many times has Viking rubbished your comments and you have "TAKEN " a few days off to lick your wounds. He will be back soon and torment you , after all he likes feeding trolls its his hobby. Off to meet up with him now for a few beers,sure hes p*****g himself laughing at you.[/p][/quote]That would be never. Look at yesterday. Lots of people saying they were attacked by him for not sharing the same opinion to the extent they left the forum. I know people who are involved so don't come across all high and mighty and these are the people who kept me in the know but others didn't want to believe it. The biggest tragedy in all this is how Sutcliffe, Whitcut and Khan can walk away without a second thought and no financial consequences.[/p][/quote]think the problem my mate Viking has with these on here including yourself is, most only post when negative stories come out of odsal when a positive report comes out the usual suspect p**s off back to Bantam land and pretend to be knowledgeable about football. By the way Viking asked for your mums recipe for humble pie, never tried it never felt the urge,but reckons some on here will be eating it soon enough. expatbull

10:58am Fri 6 Dec 13

expatbull says...

mines a pint wrote:
stiflers mom wrote:
mines a pint wrote:
What is troubling in this latest debacle at Odsal is the statement

"Directors Mark Moore, Ian Watt and Andrew Calvert claimed in a statement that “as each day goes by the board continues to receive more information detrimental to the stability of the business”."

Having been involved in the take over of a business & been part of the management team of a business that was being acquired by another business I have some understanding of the processes involved

Once a tacit agreement has been reached between two organisations there follows a period referred to as due diligence before any formal contract of sale / acquisition is finalised

This period is used to confirm that the net worth of the business to be acquired as declared by its current directors & financial accounts is actually accurate

It goes without saying that there is a legal responsibility on registered directors of a company to ensure that the accounts of a business truly reflect its standing at the time they were produced and any information material to the longevity of the business is declared both within the numbers & the narrative which forms the directors reports.

A fundamental part of this is the declaration of all its creditors and this would certainly include information on creditors / loans who would be "detrimental to the stability of the business"

As I understand it failure to declare ANY information which could materially affect the performance of a business is a criminal offence

The normal process of acquiring a company would involve a thorough investigation of the published account moreover the due diligence process should seek to confirm that the trading position of the business is as stated in the accounts it is also not uncommon where the last published accounts are some months old for a company to re state its accounts based on the current position as part of the documents presented to potential buyers

The current board does stop some way short of accusing the previous administration of deliberately covering up the full extent of the businesses debts but I can't help feeling that that is what they are trying to imply

“The last administrative team struggled to understand the full impact of running this club and stepped away from the business with large outstanding debts which the club now needs to recover from.”

But here too there is cause for concern

At what point did the present board know the club had "large outstanding debts" are these debts the same as the "information detrimental to the stability of the business" we must assume not as the need to save £400k is being reported in such away that we are made to think the new board were not aware of this until recently and had budgeted accordingly for the "large debts" left by the previous administration but not this £400k

An interesting point that seems to be overlooked in this report is that as well as there being a responsibility on the outgoing administration to ensure financial & trading statements accurately reflect the position of the business there is equal responsibility on the acquiring organisation to conduct the process of due diligence with due care and attention

In my experience this usually involves the appointment of a team of experts drawn from the senior executives of the acquiring business and more importantly supported & guided by independent financial & legal advisor's

I am really struggling to see how "information detrimental to the stability of the business" would not have been uncovered if the process of due diligence had been undertaken correctly

Now of course the level of due diligence undertaken is often a factor of who the acquiring board are accountable to. In my case the business had a net worth of £50 million was listed on the UK stock exchange & was being acquired by a substantially larger organisation list on NASDAQ

In this situation both boards were accountable to the share holders and the process of due diligence took around 3 months to complete before the takeover was finally ratified

So that leaves me with the following questions:

1) What level of due diligence was undertaken if any (remember one of the original share holders failed the RFL's fit and proper persons test wouldn't this have been know if the correct due diligence had taken place.)?

2) Did the new board appoint appropriate independent advisor's to assist them in this process & if so who?

3) If independent advisor's were appointed & failed to uncover facts material to the future existence of the business what action are the board proposing to take against these advisor's to seek redress?

4) Has the process of due diligence actually been completed yet & if it has not are we likely to see the current board walk away from the takeover? I suspect the deal has been done with the previous regime given that OK has nothing further to do with the club & the RFL has sanctioned the takeover however it does not stop them walking away & leaving us with nothing!!

I sincerely hope that over the coming months we do not see a return to the public bickering & mud slinging that we witnessed recently between Messrs Hood & Caisley et al.

The board should not be detracted from the task at hand by publicly trying to apportion blame on someone else. If they had undertaken a comprehensive process of due diligence prior to their acquisition they would have been fully aware of the position of the club they therefore must assume a certain degree of responsibility

If on the other hand there is clear evidence to suggest material information was deliberately hidden from them to secure the sale of the club then they should pursue this through the correct legal channels

We are already the laughing stock of the RFL / Superleague & do not require any more of our dirty laundry washing so publicly

As a life long supporter of Northern & the Bulls I have already purchased my season ticket & to be honest I would have done so regardless of what division we play in that is what real supporter do!!

Many in Bradford do not have a great deal to be proud of. For to long the City has been the butt of comedians jokes. Over the years the condition of our once proud city has fallen further & further behind its neighbours. Leeds is clearly the 1st city of West Yorkshire but it is alarming that smaller towns such as Halifax & Wakefield have the ability to re generate re brand themselves & attract significant sums of investment in shopping centres housing & the arts whilst all we have to show are abandoned projects derelict buildings & a puddle outside the town hall

At least for 28 weeks of the year we could put all this to one side for 80 minutes & get behind the team I only hope that mismanagement does not take that away from us also!!!!!!!!!!!!!
easy for you to say !!!
Sorry thought I would try & bring some objectivity to the forum rather than engage with the usual mud slingers :o)
talking about true fans this guy talks sense, so he will probably end up a target.
[quote][p][bold]mines a pint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]stiflers mom[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mines a pint[/bold] wrote: What is troubling in this latest debacle at Odsal is the statement "Directors Mark Moore, Ian Watt and Andrew Calvert claimed in a statement that “as each day goes by the board continues to receive more information detrimental to the stability of the business”." Having been involved in the take over of a business & been part of the management team of a business that was being acquired by another business I have some understanding of the processes involved Once a tacit agreement has been reached between two organisations there follows a period referred to as due diligence before any formal contract of sale / acquisition is finalised This period is used to confirm that the net worth of the business to be acquired as declared by its current directors & financial accounts is actually accurate It goes without saying that there is a legal responsibility on registered directors of a company to ensure that the accounts of a business truly reflect its standing at the time they were produced and any information material to the longevity of the business is declared both within the numbers & the narrative which forms the directors reports. A fundamental part of this is the declaration of all its creditors and this would certainly include information on creditors / loans who would be "detrimental to the stability of the business" As I understand it failure to declare ANY information which could materially affect the performance of a business is a criminal offence The normal process of acquiring a company would involve a thorough investigation of the published account moreover the due diligence process should seek to confirm that the trading position of the business is as stated in the accounts it is also not uncommon where the last published accounts are some months old for a company to re state its accounts based on the current position as part of the documents presented to potential buyers The current board does stop some way short of accusing the previous administration of deliberately covering up the full extent of the businesses debts but I can't help feeling that that is what they are trying to imply “The last administrative team struggled to understand the full impact of running this club and stepped away from the business with large outstanding debts which the club now needs to recover from.” But here too there is cause for concern At what point did the present board know the club had "large outstanding debts" are these debts the same as the "information detrimental to the stability of the business" we must assume not as the need to save £400k is being reported in such away that we are made to think the new board were not aware of this until recently and had budgeted accordingly for the "large debts" left by the previous administration but not this £400k An interesting point that seems to be overlooked in this report is that as well as there being a responsibility on the outgoing administration to ensure financial & trading statements accurately reflect the position of the business there is equal responsibility on the acquiring organisation to conduct the process of due diligence with due care and attention In my experience this usually involves the appointment of a team of experts drawn from the senior executives of the acquiring business and more importantly supported & guided by independent financial & legal advisor's I am really struggling to see how "information detrimental to the stability of the business" would not have been uncovered if the process of due diligence had been undertaken correctly Now of course the level of due diligence undertaken is often a factor of who the acquiring board are accountable to. In my case the business had a net worth of £50 million was listed on the UK stock exchange & was being acquired by a substantially larger organisation list on NASDAQ In this situation both boards were accountable to the share holders and the process of due diligence took around 3 months to complete before the takeover was finally ratified So that leaves me with the following questions: 1) What level of due diligence was undertaken if any (remember one of the original share holders failed the RFL's fit and proper persons test wouldn't this have been know if the correct due diligence had taken place.)? 2) Did the new board appoint appropriate independent advisor's to assist them in this process & if so who? 3) If independent advisor's were appointed & failed to uncover facts material to the future existence of the business what action are the board proposing to take against these advisor's to seek redress? 4) Has the process of due diligence actually been completed yet & if it has not are we likely to see the current board walk away from the takeover? I suspect the deal has been done with the previous regime given that OK has nothing further to do with the club & the RFL has sanctioned the takeover however it does not stop them walking away & leaving us with nothing!! I sincerely hope that over the coming months we do not see a return to the public bickering & mud slinging that we witnessed recently between Messrs Hood & Caisley et al. The board should not be detracted from the task at hand by publicly trying to apportion blame on someone else. If they had undertaken a comprehensive process of due diligence prior to their acquisition they would have been fully aware of the position of the club they therefore must assume a certain degree of responsibility If on the other hand there is clear evidence to suggest material information was deliberately hidden from them to secure the sale of the club then they should pursue this through the correct legal channels We are already the laughing stock of the RFL / Superleague & do not require any more of our dirty laundry washing so publicly As a life long supporter of Northern & the Bulls I have already purchased my season ticket & to be honest I would have done so regardless of what division we play in that is what real supporter do!! Many in Bradford do not have a great deal to be proud of. For to long the City has been the butt of comedians jokes. Over the years the condition of our once proud city has fallen further & further behind its neighbours. Leeds is clearly the 1st city of West Yorkshire but it is alarming that smaller towns such as Halifax & Wakefield have the ability to re generate re brand themselves & attract significant sums of investment in shopping centres housing & the arts whilst all we have to show are abandoned projects derelict buildings & a puddle outside the town hall At least for 28 weeks of the year we could put all this to one side for 80 minutes & get behind the team I only hope that mismanagement does not take that away from us also!!!!!!!!!!!!![/p][/quote]easy for you to say !!![/p][/quote]Sorry thought I would try & bring some objectivity to the forum rather than engage with the usual mud slingers :o)[/p][/quote]talking about true fans this guy talks sense, so he will probably end up a target. expatbull

11:04am Fri 6 Dec 13

Andy2010 says...

See the usual suspects are back today following yesterdays news to attack anyone that was RIGHT.

Please carry on as the likes of Mumby, Viking and Expat are simply hilarious with their optimism.
See the usual suspects are back today following yesterdays news to attack anyone that was RIGHT. Please carry on as the likes of Mumby, Viking and Expat are simply hilarious with their optimism. Andy2010

11:10am Fri 6 Dec 13

Bacon Bantam says...

expatbull wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
expatbull wrote:
Lythambull wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote: Missing Person : Viking. If seen feed with a large portion of Humble pie.
I think it's important to remember that whilst you wriggle with glee that you were proven right and taunt your online " nemesis" that people who work day to day at the bulls; in admin roles, in the shop, cleaning, and depend on those jobs to pay their mortgages etc are more than likely going to be made redundant just before or just after Christmas. Maybe you should think less about your small personal victory and more about the people who are going to suffer as a result of what's going in at the Bulls? E
Dont worry Vikings reading all you usual rubbish VOR but hes otherwise engaged, strange you find time to "gloat" when you get a small personal victory but how many times has Viking rubbished your comments and you have "TAKEN " a few days off to lick your wounds. He will be back soon and torment you , after all he likes feeding trolls its his hobby. Off to meet up with him now for a few beers,sure hes p*****g himself laughing at you.
That would be never. Look at yesterday. Lots of people saying they were attacked by him for not sharing the same opinion to the extent they left the forum. I know people who are involved so don't come across all high and mighty and these are the people who kept me in the know but others didn't want to believe it. The biggest tragedy in all this is how Sutcliffe, Whitcut and Khan can walk away without a second thought and no financial consequences.
think the problem my mate Viking has with these on here including yourself is, most only post when negative stories come out of odsal when a positive report comes out the usual suspect p**s off back to Bantam land and pretend to be knowledgeable about football. By the way Viking asked for your mums recipe for humble pie, never tried it never felt the urge,but reckons some on here will be eating it soon enough.
Are you vikings spokes person for the day?

Why will TVOR be eating humble pie, he told you all this Saturday and was shot down for it.

The people caused the job loses and christmas redundancies are Khan, Whitcut and Sutcliffe. There also seem to be a crazy idea that if the club had it's fully sky monies it would be ok. Last I checked £600k was withheld but debts in excess of £1.2m have been quoted by the new board. Can someone check the maths on that but I'm still getting a massive shortfall even if withheld monies had of been paid.

Lets also not forget, these withhold monies were not only known prior to take over, they were accepted by Khan and Sutcliffe so they know what the situation was before they took over. They could have spent what they could have afforded but didn't they chose to borrow and spend, therefore they are only to blame for the mess the club is in now. You would think from admin mistakes would have been learn't but no, like BCFC they went on to make the same mistakes again.
[quote][p][bold]expatbull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]expatbull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lythambull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: Missing Person : Viking. If seen feed with a large portion of Humble pie.[/p][/quote]I think it's important to remember that whilst you wriggle with glee that you were proven right and taunt your online " nemesis" that people who work day to day at the bulls; in admin roles, in the shop, cleaning, and depend on those jobs to pay their mortgages etc are more than likely going to be made redundant just before or just after Christmas. Maybe you should think less about your small personal victory and more about the people who are going to suffer as a result of what's going in at the Bulls? E[/p][/quote]Dont worry Vikings reading all you usual rubbish VOR but hes otherwise engaged, strange you find time to "gloat" when you get a small personal victory but how many times has Viking rubbished your comments and you have "TAKEN " a few days off to lick your wounds. He will be back soon and torment you , after all he likes feeding trolls its his hobby. Off to meet up with him now for a few beers,sure hes p*****g himself laughing at you.[/p][/quote]That would be never. Look at yesterday. Lots of people saying they were attacked by him for not sharing the same opinion to the extent they left the forum. I know people who are involved so don't come across all high and mighty and these are the people who kept me in the know but others didn't want to believe it. The biggest tragedy in all this is how Sutcliffe, Whitcut and Khan can walk away without a second thought and no financial consequences.[/p][/quote]think the problem my mate Viking has with these on here including yourself is, most only post when negative stories come out of odsal when a positive report comes out the usual suspect p**s off back to Bantam land and pretend to be knowledgeable about football. By the way Viking asked for your mums recipe for humble pie, never tried it never felt the urge,but reckons some on here will be eating it soon enough.[/p][/quote]Are you vikings spokes person for the day? Why will TVOR be eating humble pie, he told you all this Saturday and was shot down for it. The people caused the job loses and christmas redundancies are Khan, Whitcut and Sutcliffe. There also seem to be a crazy idea that if the club had it's fully sky monies it would be ok. Last I checked £600k was withheld but debts in excess of £1.2m have been quoted by the new board. Can someone check the maths on that but I'm still getting a massive shortfall even if withheld monies had of been paid. Lets also not forget, these withhold monies were not only known prior to take over, they were accepted by Khan and Sutcliffe so they know what the situation was before they took over. They could have spent what they could have afforded but didn't they chose to borrow and spend, therefore they are only to blame for the mess the club is in now. You would think from admin mistakes would have been learn't but no, like BCFC they went on to make the same mistakes again. Bacon Bantam

11:24am Fri 6 Dec 13

Parz says...

Well the brutal honesty at the latest forum was a nice change. The news wasn't good, but to actually be told was, it's what we've been missing and what's been so incredibly frustrating. Here's to hoping that Moore, Watt and Calvert turn out to be better than OK, GS, and RW. They've got my support anyway, good luck to them.
Well the brutal honesty at the latest forum was a nice change. The news wasn't good, but to actually be told was, it's what we've been missing and what's been so incredibly frustrating. Here's to hoping that Moore, Watt and Calvert turn out to be better than OK, GS, and RW. They've got my support anyway, good luck to them. Parz

11:31am Fri 6 Dec 13

Andy2010 says...

Parz wrote:
Well the brutal honesty at the latest forum was a nice change. The news wasn't good, but to actually be told was, it's what we've been missing and what's been so incredibly frustrating. Here's to hoping that Moore, Watt and Calvert turn out to be better than OK, GS, and RW. They've got my support anyway, good luck to them.
They still aren't telling you or others the FULL story

Await further developments in the next couple of weeks
[quote][p][bold]Parz[/bold] wrote: Well the brutal honesty at the latest forum was a nice change. The news wasn't good, but to actually be told was, it's what we've been missing and what's been so incredibly frustrating. Here's to hoping that Moore, Watt and Calvert turn out to be better than OK, GS, and RW. They've got my support anyway, good luck to them.[/p][/quote]They still aren't telling you or others the FULL story Await further developments in the next couple of weeks Andy2010

11:39am Fri 6 Dec 13

Parz says...

Andy2010 wrote:
Parz wrote: Well the brutal honesty at the latest forum was a nice change. The news wasn't good, but to actually be told was, it's what we've been missing and what's been so incredibly frustrating. Here's to hoping that Moore, Watt and Calvert turn out to be better than OK, GS, and RW. They've got my support anyway, good luck to them.
They still aren't telling you or others the FULL story Await further developments in the next couple of weeks
Maybe they are, maybe they're not. Far as I know they are, and I've nothing to say otherwise, so I remain optimistic. With all due respect, your statement of "await further developments in the next couple of weeks" is that vague and broad reaching that, providing ANYTHING happens in the next couple of weeks you could link it back to here and claim you're right. Unless you've something a bit more concrete or specific, I'm not inclined to believe you know any more than anyone else.
[quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parz[/bold] wrote: Well the brutal honesty at the latest forum was a nice change. The news wasn't good, but to actually be told was, it's what we've been missing and what's been so incredibly frustrating. Here's to hoping that Moore, Watt and Calvert turn out to be better than OK, GS, and RW. They've got my support anyway, good luck to them.[/p][/quote]They still aren't telling you or others the FULL story Await further developments in the next couple of weeks[/p][/quote]Maybe they are, maybe they're not. Far as I know they are, and I've nothing to say otherwise, so I remain optimistic. With all due respect, your statement of "await further developments in the next couple of weeks" is that vague and broad reaching that, providing ANYTHING happens in the next couple of weeks you could link it back to here and claim you're right. Unless you've something a bit more concrete or specific, I'm not inclined to believe you know any more than anyone else. Parz

11:46am Fri 6 Dec 13

Andy2010 says...

Parz wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
Parz wrote: Well the brutal honesty at the latest forum was a nice change. The news wasn't good, but to actually be told was, it's what we've been missing and what's been so incredibly frustrating. Here's to hoping that Moore, Watt and Calvert turn out to be better than OK, GS, and RW. They've got my support anyway, good luck to them.
They still aren't telling you or others the FULL story Await further developments in the next couple of weeks
Maybe they are, maybe they're not. Far as I know they are, and I've nothing to say otherwise, so I remain optimistic. With all due respect, your statement of "await further developments in the next couple of weeks" is that vague and broad reaching that, providing ANYTHING happens in the next couple of weeks you could link it back to here and claim you're right. Unless you've something a bit more concrete or specific, I'm not inclined to believe you know any more than anyone else.
Thats very true. Obviously I cannot go into details so please disregard my earlier comment.
[quote][p][bold]Parz[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parz[/bold] wrote: Well the brutal honesty at the latest forum was a nice change. The news wasn't good, but to actually be told was, it's what we've been missing and what's been so incredibly frustrating. Here's to hoping that Moore, Watt and Calvert turn out to be better than OK, GS, and RW. They've got my support anyway, good luck to them.[/p][/quote]They still aren't telling you or others the FULL story Await further developments in the next couple of weeks[/p][/quote]Maybe they are, maybe they're not. Far as I know they are, and I've nothing to say otherwise, so I remain optimistic. With all due respect, your statement of "await further developments in the next couple of weeks" is that vague and broad reaching that, providing ANYTHING happens in the next couple of weeks you could link it back to here and claim you're right. Unless you've something a bit more concrete or specific, I'm not inclined to believe you know any more than anyone else.[/p][/quote]Thats very true. Obviously I cannot go into details so please disregard my earlier comment. Andy2010

11:48am Fri 6 Dec 13

Lythambull says...

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
Lythambull wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote: Missing Person : Viking. If seen feed with a large portion of Humble pie.
I think it's important to remember that whilst you wriggle with glee that you were proven right and taunt your online " nemesis" that people who work day to day at the bulls; in admin roles, in the shop, cleaning, and depend on those jobs to pay their mortgages etc are more than likely going to be made redundant just before or just after Christmas. Maybe you should think less about your small personal victory and more about the people who are going to suffer as a result of what's going in at the Bulls? E
As I have said I know some of these people and these are the same people who raised concerns. Meanwhile Khan, Sutcliffe and Whitcut disappear into the sunset. No financial worries still proclaiming themselves as the saviours.
So aim your contempt at Khan et al. If you know people who will be effected by this directly I'm sure that they aren't sat around blaming a poster on the T&A site, are they??
Plus you did on more than one occasion yesterday take the chance to gloat about being proven right so I think people have the right to point out the realities of the situation to you in an effort to make a balanced point. Although I'm not sure it improves your position that you know people who will likely be made redundant and STILL chose to use their situation as ammo against someone who frequently has a view different from yours.
I'm sure you feel it's only fair given the stick you sometimes get on here but you have to know that people feel passionately about their sports teams and will often react quickly in the face of provocation. Provocation, your tone would suggest, you take some enjoyment from dishing out.
I can see why you're at it with viking, but is doesn't mean that you're in the right either.
[quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lythambull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: Missing Person : Viking. If seen feed with a large portion of Humble pie.[/p][/quote]I think it's important to remember that whilst you wriggle with glee that you were proven right and taunt your online " nemesis" that people who work day to day at the bulls; in admin roles, in the shop, cleaning, and depend on those jobs to pay their mortgages etc are more than likely going to be made redundant just before or just after Christmas. Maybe you should think less about your small personal victory and more about the people who are going to suffer as a result of what's going in at the Bulls? E[/p][/quote]As I have said I know some of these people and these are the same people who raised concerns. Meanwhile Khan, Sutcliffe and Whitcut disappear into the sunset. No financial worries still proclaiming themselves as the saviours.[/p][/quote]So aim your contempt at Khan et al. If you know people who will be effected by this directly I'm sure that they aren't sat around blaming a poster on the T&A site, are they?? Plus you did on more than one occasion yesterday take the chance to gloat about being proven right so I think people have the right to point out the realities of the situation to you in an effort to make a balanced point. Although I'm not sure it improves your position that you know people who will likely be made redundant and STILL chose to use their situation as ammo against someone who frequently has a view different from yours. I'm sure you feel it's only fair given the stick you sometimes get on here but you have to know that people feel passionately about their sports teams and will often react quickly in the face of provocation. Provocation, your tone would suggest, you take some enjoyment from dishing out. I can see why you're at it with viking, but is doesn't mean that you're in the right either. Lythambull

11:48am Fri 6 Dec 13

MeccaBingo1 says...

Andy2010 wrote:
Parz wrote:
Well the brutal honesty at the latest forum was a nice change. The news wasn't good, but to actually be told was, it's what we've been missing and what's been so incredibly frustrating. Here's to hoping that Moore, Watt and Calvert turn out to be better than OK, GS, and RW. They've got my support anyway, good luck to them.
They still aren't telling you or others the FULL story

Await further developments in the next couple of weeks
Exactly, simply cannot believe some people on here. Please tattoo the word MUG on your heads.

It’s the tip of the iceberg.

Listen to what the clowns tell you and multiply it by about 5 and that’s how much trouble the club is in AGAIN!

No confidence in Club or RFL

Only solution to enter admin and drop into championship

End of story

Or die from a thousand cuts, as we are currently hell bent on
[quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parz[/bold] wrote: Well the brutal honesty at the latest forum was a nice change. The news wasn't good, but to actually be told was, it's what we've been missing and what's been so incredibly frustrating. Here's to hoping that Moore, Watt and Calvert turn out to be better than OK, GS, and RW. They've got my support anyway, good luck to them.[/p][/quote]They still aren't telling you or others the FULL story Await further developments in the next couple of weeks[/p][/quote]Exactly, simply cannot believe some people on here. Please tattoo the word MUG on your heads. It’s the tip of the iceberg. Listen to what the clowns tell you and multiply it by about 5 and that’s how much trouble the club is in AGAIN! No confidence in Club or RFL Only solution to enter admin and drop into championship End of story Or die from a thousand cuts, as we are currently hell bent on MeccaBingo1

11:51am Fri 6 Dec 13

Videoref says...

mines a pint wrote:
What is troubling in this latest debacle at Odsal is the statement

"Directors Mark Moore, Ian Watt and Andrew Calvert claimed in a statement that “as each day goes by the board continues to receive more information detrimental to the stability of the business”."

Having been involved in the take over of a business & been part of the management team of a business that was being acquired by another business I have some understanding of the processes involved

Once a tacit agreement has been reached between two organisations there follows a period referred to as due diligence before any formal contract of sale / acquisition is finalised

This period is used to confirm that the net worth of the business to be acquired as declared by its current directors & financial accounts is actually accurate

It goes without saying that there is a legal responsibility on registered directors of a company to ensure that the accounts of a business truly reflect its standing at the time they were produced and any information material to the longevity of the business is declared both within the numbers & the narrative which forms the directors reports.

A fundamental part of this is the declaration of all its creditors and this would certainly include information on creditors / loans who would be "detrimental to the stability of the business"

As I understand it failure to declare ANY information which could materially affect the performance of a business is a criminal offence

The normal process of acquiring a company would involve a thorough investigation of the published account moreover the due diligence process should seek to confirm that the trading position of the business is as stated in the accounts it is also not uncommon where the last published accounts are some months old for a company to re state its accounts based on the current position as part of the documents presented to potential buyers

The current board does stop some way short of accusing the previous administration of deliberately covering up the full extent of the businesses debts but I can't help feeling that that is what they are trying to imply

“The last administrative team struggled to understand the full impact of running this club and stepped away from the business with large outstanding debts which the club now needs to recover from.”

But here too there is cause for concern

At what point did the present board know the club had "large outstanding debts" are these debts the same as the "information detrimental to the stability of the business" we must assume not as the need to save £400k is being reported in such away that we are made to think the new board were not aware of this until recently and had budgeted accordingly for the "large debts" left by the previous administration but not this £400k

An interesting point that seems to be overlooked in this report is that as well as there being a responsibility on the outgoing administration to ensure financial & trading statements accurately reflect the position of the business there is equal responsibility on the acquiring organisation to conduct the process of due diligence with due care and attention

In my experience this usually involves the appointment of a team of experts drawn from the senior executives of the acquiring business and more importantly supported & guided by independent financial & legal advisor's

I am really struggling to see how "information detrimental to the stability of the business" would not have been uncovered if the process of due diligence had been undertaken correctly

Now of course the level of due diligence undertaken is often a factor of who the acquiring board are accountable to. In my case the business had a net worth of £50 million was listed on the UK stock exchange & was being acquired by a substantially larger organisation list on NASDAQ

In this situation both boards were accountable to the share holders and the process of due diligence took around 3 months to complete before the takeover was finally ratified

So that leaves me with the following questions:

1) What level of due diligence was undertaken if any (remember one of the original share holders failed the RFL's fit and proper persons test wouldn't this have been know if the correct due diligence had taken place.)?

2) Did the new board appoint appropriate independent advisor's to assist them in this process & if so who?

3) If independent advisor's were appointed & failed to uncover facts material to the future existence of the business what action are the board proposing to take against these advisor's to seek redress?

4) Has the process of due diligence actually been completed yet & if it has not are we likely to see the current board walk away from the takeover? I suspect the deal has been done with the previous regime given that OK has nothing further to do with the club & the RFL has sanctioned the takeover however it does not stop them walking away & leaving us with nothing!!

I sincerely hope that over the coming months we do not see a return to the public bickering & mud slinging that we witnessed recently between Messrs Hood & Caisley et al.

The board should not be detracted from the task at hand by publicly trying to apportion blame on someone else. If they had undertaken a comprehensive process of due diligence prior to their acquisition they would have been fully aware of the position of the club they therefore must assume a certain degree of responsibility

If on the other hand there is clear evidence to suggest material information was deliberately hidden from them to secure the sale of the club then they should pursue this through the correct legal channels

We are already the laughing stock of the RFL / Superleague & do not require any more of our dirty laundry washing so publicly

As a life long supporter of Northern & the Bulls I have already purchased my season ticket & to be honest I would have done so regardless of what division we play in that is what real supporter do!!

Many in Bradford do not have a great deal to be proud of. For to long the City has been the butt of comedians jokes. Over the years the condition of our once proud city has fallen further & further behind its neighbours. Leeds is clearly the 1st city of West Yorkshire but it is alarming that smaller towns such as Halifax & Wakefield have the ability to re generate re brand themselves & attract significant sums of investment in shopping centres housing & the arts whilst all we have to show are abandoned projects derelict buildings & a puddle outside the town hall

At least for 28 weeks of the year we could put all this to one side for 80 minutes & get behind the team I only hope that mismanagement does not take that away from us also!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Totally agree with all you say and in addition, they must have drawn up, up to date Management Accounts prior to the 'sale' of the club. Surely these would have had to show ALL outstanding debts on that date?
This sounds a bit like Peter Hood's announcement of 'We need £500,000 in a month to survive' only to find out that he meant survive a month and we were bankrupt. What further revelations are we to expect?
[quote][p][bold]mines a pint[/bold] wrote: What is troubling in this latest debacle at Odsal is the statement "Directors Mark Moore, Ian Watt and Andrew Calvert claimed in a statement that “as each day goes by the board continues to receive more information detrimental to the stability of the business”." Having been involved in the take over of a business & been part of the management team of a business that was being acquired by another business I have some understanding of the processes involved Once a tacit agreement has been reached between two organisations there follows a period referred to as due diligence before any formal contract of sale / acquisition is finalised This period is used to confirm that the net worth of the business to be acquired as declared by its current directors & financial accounts is actually accurate It goes without saying that there is a legal responsibility on registered directors of a company to ensure that the accounts of a business truly reflect its standing at the time they were produced and any information material to the longevity of the business is declared both within the numbers & the narrative which forms the directors reports. A fundamental part of this is the declaration of all its creditors and this would certainly include information on creditors / loans who would be "detrimental to the stability of the business" As I understand it failure to declare ANY information which could materially affect the performance of a business is a criminal offence The normal process of acquiring a company would involve a thorough investigation of the published account moreover the due diligence process should seek to confirm that the trading position of the business is as stated in the accounts it is also not uncommon where the last published accounts are some months old for a company to re state its accounts based on the current position as part of the documents presented to potential buyers The current board does stop some way short of accusing the previous administration of deliberately covering up the full extent of the businesses debts but I can't help feeling that that is what they are trying to imply “The last administrative team struggled to understand the full impact of running this club and stepped away from the business with large outstanding debts which the club now needs to recover from.” But here too there is cause for concern At what point did the present board know the club had "large outstanding debts" are these debts the same as the "information detrimental to the stability of the business" we must assume not as the need to save £400k is being reported in such away that we are made to think the new board were not aware of this until recently and had budgeted accordingly for the "large debts" left by the previous administration but not this £400k An interesting point that seems to be overlooked in this report is that as well as there being a responsibility on the outgoing administration to ensure financial & trading statements accurately reflect the position of the business there is equal responsibility on the acquiring organisation to conduct the process of due diligence with due care and attention In my experience this usually involves the appointment of a team of experts drawn from the senior executives of the acquiring business and more importantly supported & guided by independent financial & legal advisor's I am really struggling to see how "information detrimental to the stability of the business" would not have been uncovered if the process of due diligence had been undertaken correctly Now of course the level of due diligence undertaken is often a factor of who the acquiring board are accountable to. In my case the business had a net worth of £50 million was listed on the UK stock exchange & was being acquired by a substantially larger organisation list on NASDAQ In this situation both boards were accountable to the share holders and the process of due diligence took around 3 months to complete before the takeover was finally ratified So that leaves me with the following questions: 1) What level of due diligence was undertaken if any (remember one of the original share holders failed the RFL's fit and proper persons test wouldn't this have been know if the correct due diligence had taken place.)? 2) Did the new board appoint appropriate independent advisor's to assist them in this process & if so who? 3) If independent advisor's were appointed & failed to uncover facts material to the future existence of the business what action are the board proposing to take against these advisor's to seek redress? 4) Has the process of due diligence actually been completed yet & if it has not are we likely to see the current board walk away from the takeover? I suspect the deal has been done with the previous regime given that OK has nothing further to do with the club & the RFL has sanctioned the takeover however it does not stop them walking away & leaving us with nothing!! I sincerely hope that over the coming months we do not see a return to the public bickering & mud slinging that we witnessed recently between Messrs Hood & Caisley et al. The board should not be detracted from the task at hand by publicly trying to apportion blame on someone else. If they had undertaken a comprehensive process of due diligence prior to their acquisition they would have been fully aware of the position of the club they therefore must assume a certain degree of responsibility If on the other hand there is clear evidence to suggest material information was deliberately hidden from them to secure the sale of the club then they should pursue this through the correct legal channels We are already the laughing stock of the RFL / Superleague & do not require any more of our dirty laundry washing so publicly As a life long supporter of Northern & the Bulls I have already purchased my season ticket & to be honest I would have done so regardless of what division we play in that is what real supporter do!! Many in Bradford do not have a great deal to be proud of. For to long the City has been the butt of comedians jokes. Over the years the condition of our once proud city has fallen further & further behind its neighbours. Leeds is clearly the 1st city of West Yorkshire but it is alarming that smaller towns such as Halifax & Wakefield have the ability to re generate re brand themselves & attract significant sums of investment in shopping centres housing & the arts whilst all we have to show are abandoned projects derelict buildings & a puddle outside the town hall At least for 28 weeks of the year we could put all this to one side for 80 minutes & get behind the team I only hope that mismanagement does not take that away from us also!!!!!!!!!!!!![/p][/quote]Totally agree with all you say and in addition, they must have drawn up, up to date Management Accounts prior to the 'sale' of the club. Surely these would have had to show ALL outstanding debts on that date? This sounds a bit like Peter Hood's announcement of 'We need £500,000 in a month to survive' only to find out that he meant survive a month and we were bankrupt. What further revelations are we to expect? Videoref

11:55am Fri 6 Dec 13

Parz says...

Andy2010 wrote:
Parz wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
Parz wrote: Well the brutal honesty at the latest forum was a nice change. The news wasn't good, but to actually be told was, it's what we've been missing and what's been so incredibly frustrating. Here's to hoping that Moore, Watt and Calvert turn out to be better than OK, GS, and RW. They've got my support anyway, good luck to them.
They still aren't telling you or others the FULL story Await further developments in the next couple of weeks
Maybe they are, maybe they're not. Far as I know they are, and I've nothing to say otherwise, so I remain optimistic. With all due respect, your statement of "await further developments in the next couple of weeks" is that vague and broad reaching that, providing ANYTHING happens in the next couple of weeks you could link it back to here and claim you're right. Unless you've something a bit more concrete or specific, I'm not inclined to believe you know any more than anyone else.
Thats very true. Obviously I cannot go into details so please disregard my earlier comment.
I think this is part of the problem people have. There are far too many people who do the whole "I know something, but I'm not going to tell you what, I'm just going to make some vague comment and link it back later and claim I was right", which waters down the argument of anyone who does know things and frustrates the people who have a genuine interest in what's going on.
[quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parz[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parz[/bold] wrote: Well the brutal honesty at the latest forum was a nice change. The news wasn't good, but to actually be told was, it's what we've been missing and what's been so incredibly frustrating. Here's to hoping that Moore, Watt and Calvert turn out to be better than OK, GS, and RW. They've got my support anyway, good luck to them.[/p][/quote]They still aren't telling you or others the FULL story Await further developments in the next couple of weeks[/p][/quote]Maybe they are, maybe they're not. Far as I know they are, and I've nothing to say otherwise, so I remain optimistic. With all due respect, your statement of "await further developments in the next couple of weeks" is that vague and broad reaching that, providing ANYTHING happens in the next couple of weeks you could link it back to here and claim you're right. Unless you've something a bit more concrete or specific, I'm not inclined to believe you know any more than anyone else.[/p][/quote]Thats very true. Obviously I cannot go into details so please disregard my earlier comment.[/p][/quote]I think this is part of the problem people have. There are far too many people who do the whole "I know something, but I'm not going to tell you what, I'm just going to make some vague comment and link it back later and claim I was right", which waters down the argument of anyone who does know things and frustrates the people who have a genuine interest in what's going on. Parz

12:21pm Fri 6 Dec 13

Loyalbull1981 says...

Parz wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
Parz wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
Parz wrote: Well the brutal honesty at the latest forum was a nice change. The news wasn't good, but to actually be told was, it's what we've been missing and what's been so incredibly frustrating. Here's to hoping that Moore, Watt and Calvert turn out to be better than OK, GS, and RW. They've got my support anyway, good luck to them.
They still aren't telling you or others the FULL story Await further developments in the next couple of weeks
Maybe they are, maybe they're not. Far as I know they are, and I've nothing to say otherwise, so I remain optimistic. With all due respect, your statement of "await further developments in the next couple of weeks" is that vague and broad reaching that, providing ANYTHING happens in the next couple of weeks you could link it back to here and claim you're right. Unless you've something a bit more concrete or specific, I'm not inclined to believe you know any more than anyone else.
Thats very true. Obviously I cannot go into details so please disregard my earlier comment.
I think this is part of the problem people have. There are far too many people who do the whole "I know something, but I'm not going to tell you what, I'm just going to make some vague comment and link it back later and claim I was right", which waters down the argument of anyone who does know things and frustrates the people who have a genuine interest in what's going on.
couldnt agree more and the most sensible statement yet. hate the ''i know this but only gunna tell you a snippet of it so you keep begging me for more info so i can boost my ego about being in the know'' people. Sick to death of it. People should just either say it how it is or not bother. Hate riddlers sooooo boring
[quote][p][bold]Parz[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parz[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parz[/bold] wrote: Well the brutal honesty at the latest forum was a nice change. The news wasn't good, but to actually be told was, it's what we've been missing and what's been so incredibly frustrating. Here's to hoping that Moore, Watt and Calvert turn out to be better than OK, GS, and RW. They've got my support anyway, good luck to them.[/p][/quote]They still aren't telling you or others the FULL story Await further developments in the next couple of weeks[/p][/quote]Maybe they are, maybe they're not. Far as I know they are, and I've nothing to say otherwise, so I remain optimistic. With all due respect, your statement of "await further developments in the next couple of weeks" is that vague and broad reaching that, providing ANYTHING happens in the next couple of weeks you could link it back to here and claim you're right. Unless you've something a bit more concrete or specific, I'm not inclined to believe you know any more than anyone else.[/p][/quote]Thats very true. Obviously I cannot go into details so please disregard my earlier comment.[/p][/quote]I think this is part of the problem people have. There are far too many people who do the whole "I know something, but I'm not going to tell you what, I'm just going to make some vague comment and link it back later and claim I was right", which waters down the argument of anyone who does know things and frustrates the people who have a genuine interest in what's going on.[/p][/quote]couldnt agree more and the most sensible statement yet. hate the ''i know this but only gunna tell you a snippet of it so you keep begging me for more info so i can boost my ego about being in the know'' people. Sick to death of it. People should just either say it how it is or not bother. Hate riddlers sooooo boring Loyalbull1981

12:25pm Fri 6 Dec 13

Thee Voice of Reason says...

Lythambull wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
Lythambull wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote: Missing Person : Viking. If seen feed with a large portion of Humble pie.
I think it's important to remember that whilst you wriggle with glee that you were proven right and taunt your online " nemesis" that people who work day to day at the bulls; in admin roles, in the shop, cleaning, and depend on those jobs to pay their mortgages etc are more than likely going to be made redundant just before or just after Christmas. Maybe you should think less about your small personal victory and more about the people who are going to suffer as a result of what's going in at the Bulls? E
As I have said I know some of these people and these are the same people who raised concerns. Meanwhile Khan, Sutcliffe and Whitcut disappear into the sunset. No financial worries still proclaiming themselves as the saviours.
So aim your contempt at Khan et al. If you know people who will be effected by this directly I'm sure that they aren't sat around blaming a poster on the T&A site, are they?? Plus you did on more than one occasion yesterday take the chance to gloat about being proven right so I think people have the right to point out the realities of the situation to you in an effort to make a balanced point. Although I'm not sure it improves your position that you know people who will likely be made redundant and STILL chose to use their situation as ammo against someone who frequently has a view different from yours. I'm sure you feel it's only fair given the stick you sometimes get on here but you have to know that people feel passionately about their sports teams and will often react quickly in the face of provocation. Provocation, your tone would suggest, you take some enjoyment from dishing out. I can see why you're at it with viking, but is doesn't mean that you're in the right either.
I have hit out at Khan et all. Thats what been the major cause of people slagging me off on here as they saw him as the saviour.

Look at his last twitter post. I leave the bulls in a better position that when I took them over, then lapping up thanks and praise from all and sundry. Wonder if he will face the people who will be getting bad news shortly to explain why he did what he did, along with Whitcut, Sutcliffe and all the other directors who came and went at the same time.
[quote][p][bold]Lythambull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lythambull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: Missing Person : Viking. If seen feed with a large portion of Humble pie.[/p][/quote]I think it's important to remember that whilst you wriggle with glee that you were proven right and taunt your online " nemesis" that people who work day to day at the bulls; in admin roles, in the shop, cleaning, and depend on those jobs to pay their mortgages etc are more than likely going to be made redundant just before or just after Christmas. Maybe you should think less about your small personal victory and more about the people who are going to suffer as a result of what's going in at the Bulls? E[/p][/quote]As I have said I know some of these people and these are the same people who raised concerns. Meanwhile Khan, Sutcliffe and Whitcut disappear into the sunset. No financial worries still proclaiming themselves as the saviours.[/p][/quote]So aim your contempt at Khan et al. If you know people who will be effected by this directly I'm sure that they aren't sat around blaming a poster on the T&A site, are they?? Plus you did on more than one occasion yesterday take the chance to gloat about being proven right so I think people have the right to point out the realities of the situation to you in an effort to make a balanced point. Although I'm not sure it improves your position that you know people who will likely be made redundant and STILL chose to use their situation as ammo against someone who frequently has a view different from yours. I'm sure you feel it's only fair given the stick you sometimes get on here but you have to know that people feel passionately about their sports teams and will often react quickly in the face of provocation. Provocation, your tone would suggest, you take some enjoyment from dishing out. I can see why you're at it with viking, but is doesn't mean that you're in the right either.[/p][/quote]I have hit out at Khan et all. Thats what been the major cause of people slagging me off on here as they saw him as the saviour. Look at his last twitter post. I leave the bulls in a better position that when I took them over, then lapping up thanks and praise from all and sundry. Wonder if he will face the people who will be getting bad news shortly to explain why he did what he did, along with Whitcut, Sutcliffe and all the other directors who came and went at the same time. Thee Voice of Reason

12:29pm Fri 6 Dec 13

Thee Voice of Reason says...

Loyalbull1981 wrote:
Parz wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
Parz wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
Parz wrote: Well the brutal honesty at the latest forum was a nice change. The news wasn't good, but to actually be told was, it's what we've been missing and what's been so incredibly frustrating. Here's to hoping that Moore, Watt and Calvert turn out to be better than OK, GS, and RW. They've got my support anyway, good luck to them.
They still aren't telling you or others the FULL story Await further developments in the next couple of weeks
Maybe they are, maybe they're not. Far as I know they are, and I've nothing to say otherwise, so I remain optimistic. With all due respect, your statement of "await further developments in the next couple of weeks" is that vague and broad reaching that, providing ANYTHING happens in the next couple of weeks you could link it back to here and claim you're right. Unless you've something a bit more concrete or specific, I'm not inclined to believe you know any more than anyone else.
Thats very true. Obviously I cannot go into details so please disregard my earlier comment.
I think this is part of the problem people have. There are far too many people who do the whole "I know something, but I'm not going to tell you what, I'm just going to make some vague comment and link it back later and claim I was right", which waters down the argument of anyone who does know things and frustrates the people who have a genuine interest in what's going on.
couldnt agree more and the most sensible statement yet. hate the ''i know this but only gunna tell you a snippet of it so you keep begging me for more info so i can boost my ego about being in the know'' people. Sick to death of it. People should just either say it how it is or not bother. Hate riddlers sooooo boring
http://www.thetelegr
aphandargus.co.uk/sp
ort/sportbulls/10846
218.Bradford_Bulls_d
eny_administration_c
laims/

Post number 1.

OK and Whitcut left the club in a right state saddled with debt when they walked out. Good luck to those who are picking up the pieces.

Even when somthing clear is posted, you still get abused by all and sundry.
[quote][p][bold]Loyalbull1981[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parz[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parz[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parz[/bold] wrote: Well the brutal honesty at the latest forum was a nice change. The news wasn't good, but to actually be told was, it's what we've been missing and what's been so incredibly frustrating. Here's to hoping that Moore, Watt and Calvert turn out to be better than OK, GS, and RW. They've got my support anyway, good luck to them.[/p][/quote]They still aren't telling you or others the FULL story Await further developments in the next couple of weeks[/p][/quote]Maybe they are, maybe they're not. Far as I know they are, and I've nothing to say otherwise, so I remain optimistic. With all due respect, your statement of "await further developments in the next couple of weeks" is that vague and broad reaching that, providing ANYTHING happens in the next couple of weeks you could link it back to here and claim you're right. Unless you've something a bit more concrete or specific, I'm not inclined to believe you know any more than anyone else.[/p][/quote]Thats very true. Obviously I cannot go into details so please disregard my earlier comment.[/p][/quote]I think this is part of the problem people have. There are far too many people who do the whole "I know something, but I'm not going to tell you what, I'm just going to make some vague comment and link it back later and claim I was right", which waters down the argument of anyone who does know things and frustrates the people who have a genuine interest in what's going on.[/p][/quote]couldnt agree more and the most sensible statement yet. hate the ''i know this but only gunna tell you a snippet of it so you keep begging me for more info so i can boost my ego about being in the know'' people. Sick to death of it. People should just either say it how it is or not bother. Hate riddlers sooooo boring[/p][/quote]http://www.thetelegr aphandargus.co.uk/sp ort/sportbulls/10846 218.Bradford_Bulls_d eny_administration_c laims/ Post number 1. OK and Whitcut left the club in a right state saddled with debt when they walked out. Good luck to those who are picking up the pieces. Even when somthing clear is posted, you still get abused by all and sundry. Thee Voice of Reason

12:40pm Fri 6 Dec 13

Prisoner Cell Block A says...

Lythambull wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
Lythambull wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote: Missing Person : Viking. If seen feed with a large portion of Humble pie.
I think it's important to remember that whilst you wriggle with glee that you were proven right and taunt your online " nemesis" that people who work day to day at the bulls; in admin roles, in the shop, cleaning, and depend on those jobs to pay their mortgages etc are more than likely going to be made redundant just before or just after Christmas. Maybe you should think less about your small personal victory and more about the people who are going to suffer as a result of what's going in at the Bulls? E
As I have said I know some of these people and these are the same people who raised concerns. Meanwhile Khan, Sutcliffe and Whitcut disappear into the sunset. No financial worries still proclaiming themselves as the saviours.
So aim your contempt at Khan et al. If you know people who will be effected by this directly I'm sure that they aren't sat around blaming a poster on the T&A site, are they??
Plus you did on more than one occasion yesterday take the chance to gloat about being proven right so I think people have the right to point out the realities of the situation to you in an effort to make a balanced point. Although I'm not sure it improves your position that you know people who will likely be made redundant and STILL chose to use their situation as ammo against someone who frequently has a view different from yours.
I'm sure you feel it's only fair given the stick you sometimes get on here but you have to know that people feel passionately about their sports teams and will often react quickly in the face of provocation. Provocation, your tone would suggest, you take some enjoyment from dishing out.
I can see why you're at it with viking, but is doesn't mean that you're in the right either.
That would be the similar sort of 'we're in the money' gloating would it?

TVOR, although commenting in what appears a negative manner has only been pointing out warnings and pitfalls. The thickness of the rose tints blinded people to these and instead they preferred to listen to and believe the proven BS which has culminated in a continuous downward spiral over the last few years. By the way, he is in the right and has been about most things. Viking has not, he's a mug. And continues to be so and prove it often.

Even the guy above who has been involved in a takeover is dubious that the guys at the helm have followed correct procedure and if they have they have either been duped or worse, stupid. Don't forget, if the due dilligence period is still in force, they can walk away.
[quote][p][bold]Lythambull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lythambull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: Missing Person : Viking. If seen feed with a large portion of Humble pie.[/p][/quote]I think it's important to remember that whilst you wriggle with glee that you were proven right and taunt your online " nemesis" that people who work day to day at the bulls; in admin roles, in the shop, cleaning, and depend on those jobs to pay their mortgages etc are more than likely going to be made redundant just before or just after Christmas. Maybe you should think less about your small personal victory and more about the people who are going to suffer as a result of what's going in at the Bulls? E[/p][/quote]As I have said I know some of these people and these are the same people who raised concerns. Meanwhile Khan, Sutcliffe and Whitcut disappear into the sunset. No financial worries still proclaiming themselves as the saviours.[/p][/quote]So aim your contempt at Khan et al. If you know people who will be effected by this directly I'm sure that they aren't sat around blaming a poster on the T&A site, are they?? Plus you did on more than one occasion yesterday take the chance to gloat about being proven right so I think people have the right to point out the realities of the situation to you in an effort to make a balanced point. Although I'm not sure it improves your position that you know people who will likely be made redundant and STILL chose to use their situation as ammo against someone who frequently has a view different from yours. I'm sure you feel it's only fair given the stick you sometimes get on here but you have to know that people feel passionately about their sports teams and will often react quickly in the face of provocation. Provocation, your tone would suggest, you take some enjoyment from dishing out. I can see why you're at it with viking, but is doesn't mean that you're in the right either.[/p][/quote]That would be the similar sort of 'we're in the money' gloating would it? TVOR, although commenting in what appears a negative manner has only been pointing out warnings and pitfalls. The thickness of the rose tints blinded people to these and instead they preferred to listen to and believe the proven BS which has culminated in a continuous downward spiral over the last few years. By the way, he is in the right and has been about most things. Viking has not, he's a mug. And continues to be so and prove it often. Even the guy above who has been involved in a takeover is dubious that the guys at the helm have followed correct procedure and if they have they have either been duped or worse, stupid. Don't forget, if the due dilligence period is still in force, they can walk away. Prisoner Cell Block A

12:42pm Fri 6 Dec 13

Andy2010 says...

Loyalbull1981 wrote:
Parz wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
Parz wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
Parz wrote: Well the brutal honesty at the latest forum was a nice change. The news wasn't good, but to actually be told was, it's what we've been missing and what's been so incredibly frustrating. Here's to hoping that Moore, Watt and Calvert turn out to be better than OK, GS, and RW. They've got my support anyway, good luck to them.
They still aren't telling you or others the FULL story Await further developments in the next couple of weeks
Maybe they are, maybe they're not. Far as I know they are, and I've nothing to say otherwise, so I remain optimistic. With all due respect, your statement of "await further developments in the next couple of weeks" is that vague and broad reaching that, providing ANYTHING happens in the next couple of weeks you could link it back to here and claim you're right. Unless you've something a bit more concrete or specific, I'm not inclined to believe you know any more than anyone else.
Thats very true. Obviously I cannot go into details so please disregard my earlier comment.
I think this is part of the problem people have. There are far too many people who do the whole "I know something, but I'm not going to tell you what, I'm just going to make some vague comment and link it back later and claim I was right", which waters down the argument of anyone who does know things and frustrates the people who have a genuine interest in what's going on.
couldnt agree more and the most sensible statement yet. hate the ''i know this but only gunna tell you a snippet of it so you keep begging me for more info so i can boost my ego about being in the know'' people. Sick to death of it. People should just either say it how it is or not bother. Hate riddlers sooooo boring
I cant go into details for business reasons but the top and bottom of this is even if they cut back to the bone they have no money and are losing money month after month. The new owners (after meeting with one of them only this week) openly admit this and I get the impression they are sick to death of the club already as without investment its a one way road.

These new owners simply do not have the funds nor the business know how to turn the Bulls around.

Lets just leave it at that and await further announcements
[quote][p][bold]Loyalbull1981[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parz[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parz[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parz[/bold] wrote: Well the brutal honesty at the latest forum was a nice change. The news wasn't good, but to actually be told was, it's what we've been missing and what's been so incredibly frustrating. Here's to hoping that Moore, Watt and Calvert turn out to be better than OK, GS, and RW. They've got my support anyway, good luck to them.[/p][/quote]They still aren't telling you or others the FULL story Await further developments in the next couple of weeks[/p][/quote]Maybe they are, maybe they're not. Far as I know they are, and I've nothing to say otherwise, so I remain optimistic. With all due respect, your statement of "await further developments in the next couple of weeks" is that vague and broad reaching that, providing ANYTHING happens in the next couple of weeks you could link it back to here and claim you're right. Unless you've something a bit more concrete or specific, I'm not inclined to believe you know any more than anyone else.[/p][/quote]Thats very true. Obviously I cannot go into details so please disregard my earlier comment.[/p][/quote]I think this is part of the problem people have. There are far too many people who do the whole "I know something, but I'm not going to tell you what, I'm just going to make some vague comment and link it back later and claim I was right", which waters down the argument of anyone who does know things and frustrates the people who have a genuine interest in what's going on.[/p][/quote]couldnt agree more and the most sensible statement yet. hate the ''i know this but only gunna tell you a snippet of it so you keep begging me for more info so i can boost my ego about being in the know'' people. Sick to death of it. People should just either say it how it is or not bother. Hate riddlers sooooo boring[/p][/quote]I cant go into details for business reasons but the top and bottom of this is even if they cut back to the bone they have no money and are losing money month after month. The new owners (after meeting with one of them only this week) openly admit this and I get the impression they are sick to death of the club already as without investment its a one way road. These new owners simply do not have the funds nor the business know how to turn the Bulls around. Lets just leave it at that and await further announcements Andy2010

12:42pm Fri 6 Dec 13

Bacon Bantam says...

Get some audited accounts done, and posted up on companies house showing what the current state of the company is. When it's from an idependant 3rd party like an accountants and fully signed off as audited will the truth be known and we can see who is telling the truth.
Get some audited accounts done, and posted up on companies house showing what the current state of the company is. When it's from an idependant 3rd party like an accountants and fully signed off as audited will the truth be known and we can see who is telling the truth. Bacon Bantam

12:57pm Fri 6 Dec 13

StevieLad says...

mines a pint wrote:
What is troubling in this latest debacle at Odsal is the statement

"Directors Mark Moore, Ian Watt and Andrew Calvert claimed in a statement that “as each day goes by the board continues to receive more information detrimental to the stability of the business”."

Having been involved in the take over of a business & been part of the management team of a business that was being acquired by another business I have some understanding of the processes involved

Once a tacit agreement has been reached between two organisations there follows a period referred to as due diligence before any formal contract of sale / acquisition is finalised

This period is used to confirm that the net worth of the business to be acquired as declared by its current directors & financial accounts is actually accurate

It goes without saying that there is a legal responsibility on registered directors of a company to ensure that the accounts of a business truly reflect its standing at the time they were produced and any information material to the longevity of the business is declared both within the numbers & the narrative which forms the directors reports.

A fundamental part of this is the declaration of all its creditors and this would certainly include information on creditors / loans who would be "detrimental to the stability of the business"

As I understand it failure to declare ANY information which could materially affect the performance of a business is a criminal offence

The normal process of acquiring a company would involve a thorough investigation of the published account moreover the due diligence process should seek to confirm that the trading position of the business is as stated in the accounts it is also not uncommon where the last published accounts are some months old for a company to re state its accounts based on the current position as part of the documents presented to potential buyers

The current board does stop some way short of accusing the previous administration of deliberately covering up the full extent of the businesses debts but I can't help feeling that that is what they are trying to imply

“The last administrative team struggled to understand the full impact of running this club and stepped away from the business with large outstanding debts which the club now needs to recover from.”

But here too there is cause for concern

At what point did the present board know the club had "large outstanding debts" are these debts the same as the "information detrimental to the stability of the business" we must assume not as the need to save £400k is being reported in such away that we are made to think the new board were not aware of this until recently and had budgeted accordingly for the "large debts" left by the previous administration but not this £400k

An interesting point that seems to be overlooked in this report is that as well as there being a responsibility on the outgoing administration to ensure financial & trading statements accurately reflect the position of the business there is equal responsibility on the acquiring organisation to conduct the process of due diligence with due care and attention

In my experience this usually involves the appointment of a team of experts drawn from the senior executives of the acquiring business and more importantly supported & guided by independent financial & legal advisor's

I am really struggling to see how "information detrimental to the stability of the business" would not have been uncovered if the process of due diligence had been undertaken correctly

Now of course the level of due diligence undertaken is often a factor of who the acquiring board are accountable to. In my case the business had a net worth of £50 million was listed on the UK stock exchange & was being acquired by a substantially larger organisation list on NASDAQ

In this situation both boards were accountable to the share holders and the process of due diligence took around 3 months to complete before the takeover was finally ratified

So that leaves me with the following questions:

1) What level of due diligence was undertaken if any (remember one of the original share holders failed the RFL's fit and proper persons test wouldn't this have been know if the correct due diligence had taken place.)?

2) Did the new board appoint appropriate independent advisor's to assist them in this process & if so who?

3) If independent advisor's were appointed & failed to uncover facts material to the future existence of the business what action are the board proposing to take against these advisor's to seek redress?

4) Has the process of due diligence actually been completed yet & if it has not are we likely to see the current board walk away from the takeover? I suspect the deal has been done with the previous regime given that OK has nothing further to do with the club & the RFL has sanctioned the takeover however it does not stop them walking away & leaving us with nothing!!

I sincerely hope that over the coming months we do not see a return to the public bickering & mud slinging that we witnessed recently between Messrs Hood & Caisley et al.

The board should not be detracted from the task at hand by publicly trying to apportion blame on someone else. If they had undertaken a comprehensive process of due diligence prior to their acquisition they would have been fully aware of the position of the club they therefore must assume a certain degree of responsibility

If on the other hand there is clear evidence to suggest material information was deliberately hidden from them to secure the sale of the club then they should pursue this through the correct legal channels

We are already the laughing stock of the RFL / Superleague & do not require any more of our dirty laundry washing so publicly

As a life long supporter of Northern & the Bulls I have already purchased my season ticket & to be honest I would have done so regardless of what division we play in that is what real supporter do!!

Many in Bradford do not have a great deal to be proud of. For to long the City has been the butt of comedians jokes. Over the years the condition of our once proud city has fallen further & further behind its neighbours. Leeds is clearly the 1st city of West Yorkshire but it is alarming that smaller towns such as Halifax & Wakefield have the ability to re generate re brand themselves & attract significant sums of investment in shopping centres housing & the arts whilst all we have to show are abandoned projects derelict buildings & a puddle outside the town hall

At least for 28 weeks of the year we could put all this to one side for 80 minutes & get behind the team I only hope that mismanagement does not take that away from us also!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You're exactly right & a great post. Based on this "new" uncovering of previously unknown info, was there any due diligence done at takeover? And it is very relevant because if someone's done such a poor job on due diligence there's a question of compensation. It'd take ages but clearly the club need that money.

There are no published accounts for OK Bulls yet, the deadline for those is some way off yet. (NOT annual return for the avoidance of doubt!). So the former directors can't really be attacked on that - but due diligence is made so much more difficult. I have actually prepared a purchase DD report myself (not £50m though more like £10m) - if there were no accounts I would say that's definitely the first job to do before starting.
[quote][p][bold]mines a pint[/bold] wrote: What is troubling in this latest debacle at Odsal is the statement "Directors Mark Moore, Ian Watt and Andrew Calvert claimed in a statement that “as each day goes by the board continues to receive more information detrimental to the stability of the business”." Having been involved in the take over of a business & been part of the management team of a business that was being acquired by another business I have some understanding of the processes involved Once a tacit agreement has been reached between two organisations there follows a period referred to as due diligence before any formal contract of sale / acquisition is finalised This period is used to confirm that the net worth of the business to be acquired as declared by its current directors & financial accounts is actually accurate It goes without saying that there is a legal responsibility on registered directors of a company to ensure that the accounts of a business truly reflect its standing at the time they were produced and any information material to the longevity of the business is declared both within the numbers & the narrative which forms the directors reports. A fundamental part of this is the declaration of all its creditors and this would certainly include information on creditors / loans who would be "detrimental to the stability of the business" As I understand it failure to declare ANY information which could materially affect the performance of a business is a criminal offence The normal process of acquiring a company would involve a thorough investigation of the published account moreover the due diligence process should seek to confirm that the trading position of the business is as stated in the accounts it is also not uncommon where the last published accounts are some months old for a company to re state its accounts based on the current position as part of the documents presented to potential buyers The current board does stop some way short of accusing the previous administration of deliberately covering up the full extent of the businesses debts but I can't help feeling that that is what they are trying to imply “The last administrative team struggled to understand the full impact of running this club and stepped away from the business with large outstanding debts which the club now needs to recover from.” But here too there is cause for concern At what point did the present board know the club had "large outstanding debts" are these debts the same as the "information detrimental to the stability of the business" we must assume not as the need to save £400k is being reported in such away that we are made to think the new board were not aware of this until recently and had budgeted accordingly for the "large debts" left by the previous administration but not this £400k An interesting point that seems to be overlooked in this report is that as well as there being a responsibility on the outgoing administration to ensure financial & trading statements accurately reflect the position of the business there is equal responsibility on the acquiring organisation to conduct the process of due diligence with due care and attention In my experience this usually involves the appointment of a team of experts drawn from the senior executives of the acquiring business and more importantly supported & guided by independent financial & legal advisor's I am really struggling to see how "information detrimental to the stability of the business" would not have been uncovered if the process of due diligence had been undertaken correctly Now of course the level of due diligence undertaken is often a factor of who the acquiring board are accountable to. In my case the business had a net worth of £50 million was listed on the UK stock exchange & was being acquired by a substantially larger organisation list on NASDAQ In this situation both boards were accountable to the share holders and the process of due diligence took around 3 months to complete before the takeover was finally ratified So that leaves me with the following questions: 1) What level of due diligence was undertaken if any (remember one of the original share holders failed the RFL's fit and proper persons test wouldn't this have been know if the correct due diligence had taken place.)? 2) Did the new board appoint appropriate independent advisor's to assist them in this process & if so who? 3) If independent advisor's were appointed & failed to uncover facts material to the future existence of the business what action are the board proposing to take against these advisor's to seek redress? 4) Has the process of due diligence actually been completed yet & if it has not are we likely to see the current board walk away from the takeover? I suspect the deal has been done with the previous regime given that OK has nothing further to do with the club & the RFL has sanctioned the takeover however it does not stop them walking away & leaving us with nothing!! I sincerely hope that over the coming months we do not see a return to the public bickering & mud slinging that we witnessed recently between Messrs Hood & Caisley et al. The board should not be detracted from the task at hand by publicly trying to apportion blame on someone else. If they had undertaken a comprehensive process of due diligence prior to their acquisition they would have been fully aware of the position of the club they therefore must assume a certain degree of responsibility If on the other hand there is clear evidence to suggest material information was deliberately hidden from them to secure the sale of the club then they should pursue this through the correct legal channels We are already the laughing stock of the RFL / Superleague & do not require any more of our dirty laundry washing so publicly As a life long supporter of Northern & the Bulls I have already purchased my season ticket & to be honest I would have done so regardless of what division we play in that is what real supporter do!! Many in Bradford do not have a great deal to be proud of. For to long the City has been the butt of comedians jokes. Over the years the condition of our once proud city has fallen further & further behind its neighbours. Leeds is clearly the 1st city of West Yorkshire but it is alarming that smaller towns such as Halifax & Wakefield have the ability to re generate re brand themselves & attract significant sums of investment in shopping centres housing & the arts whilst all we have to show are abandoned projects derelict buildings & a puddle outside the town hall At least for 28 weeks of the year we could put all this to one side for 80 minutes & get behind the team I only hope that mismanagement does not take that away from us also!!!!!!!!!!!!![/p][/quote]You're exactly right & a great post. Based on this "new" uncovering of previously unknown info, was there any due diligence done at takeover? And it is very relevant because if someone's done such a poor job on due diligence there's a question of compensation. It'd take ages but clearly the club need that money. There are no published accounts for OK Bulls yet, the deadline for those is some way off yet. (NOT annual return for the avoidance of doubt!). So the former directors can't really be attacked on that - but due diligence is made so much more difficult. I have actually prepared a purchase DD report myself (not £50m though more like £10m) - if there were no accounts I would say that's definitely the first job to do before starting. StevieLad

1:03pm Fri 6 Dec 13

Lythambull says...

Prisoner Cell Block A wrote:
Lythambull wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
Lythambull wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote: Missing Person : Viking. If seen feed with a large portion of Humble pie.
I think it's important to remember that whilst you wriggle with glee that you were proven right and taunt your online " nemesis" that people who work day to day at the bulls; in admin roles, in the shop, cleaning, and depend on those jobs to pay their mortgages etc are more than likely going to be made redundant just before or just after Christmas. Maybe you should think less about your small personal victory and more about the people who are going to suffer as a result of what's going in at the Bulls? E
As I have said I know some of these people and these are the same people who raised concerns. Meanwhile Khan, Sutcliffe and Whitcut disappear into the sunset. No financial worries still proclaiming themselves as the saviours.
So aim your contempt at Khan et al. If you know people who will be effected by this directly I'm sure that they aren't sat around blaming a poster on the T&A site, are they?? Plus you did on more than one occasion yesterday take the chance to gloat about being proven right so I think people have the right to point out the realities of the situation to you in an effort to make a balanced point. Although I'm not sure it improves your position that you know people who will likely be made redundant and STILL chose to use their situation as ammo against someone who frequently has a view different from yours. I'm sure you feel it's only fair given the stick you sometimes get on here but you have to know that people feel passionately about their sports teams and will often react quickly in the face of provocation. Provocation, your tone would suggest, you take some enjoyment from dishing out. I can see why you're at it with viking, but is doesn't mean that you're in the right either.
That would be the similar sort of 'we're in the money' gloating would it? TVOR, although commenting in what appears a negative manner has only been pointing out warnings and pitfalls. The thickness of the rose tints blinded people to these and instead they preferred to listen to and believe the proven BS which has culminated in a continuous downward spiral over the last few years. By the way, he is in the right and has been about most things. Viking has not, he's a mug. And continues to be so and prove it often. Even the guy above who has been involved in a takeover is dubious that the guys at the helm have followed correct procedure and if they have they have either been duped or worse, stupid. Don't forget, if the due dilligence period is still in force, they can walk away.
I don't recall gloating when Khan came on board, and I don't care what you think about Viking, I've never met the guy and I don't agree with everything he or TVOR say. I'm capable of forming and discussing my own opinions. One of which, if you'd care to read the thread back, was that it was wrong of TVOR to gloat about being proven right ( and he IS right, by the way) when people will be losing their jobs in and around Christmas time. Players are ring fenced. Cleaners and office staff aren't.
I will continue to think this as I'm sure TVOR would agree that he neglected the bigger picture for the moment.
He's probably a little tee'd off you feel the needs to fight some none existent battle for him given that he's nothing if not a feisty poster, to say the least.
If the new owners walk away then newer owners will eventually be found and the club will go on in one form or another. I will continue to support that club, although not blindly, and acclimate myself with the fact that we live within our means and don't sweep all before us anymore. It must be easy to support a successful, winning team.
[quote][p][bold]Prisoner Cell Block A[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lythambull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lythambull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: Missing Person : Viking. If seen feed with a large portion of Humble pie.[/p][/quote]I think it's important to remember that whilst you wriggle with glee that you were proven right and taunt your online " nemesis" that people who work day to day at the bulls; in admin roles, in the shop, cleaning, and depend on those jobs to pay their mortgages etc are more than likely going to be made redundant just before or just after Christmas. Maybe you should think less about your small personal victory and more about the people who are going to suffer as a result of what's going in at the Bulls? E[/p][/quote]As I have said I know some of these people and these are the same people who raised concerns. Meanwhile Khan, Sutcliffe and Whitcut disappear into the sunset. No financial worries still proclaiming themselves as the saviours.[/p][/quote]So aim your contempt at Khan et al. If you know people who will be effected by this directly I'm sure that they aren't sat around blaming a poster on the T&A site, are they?? Plus you did on more than one occasion yesterday take the chance to gloat about being proven right so I think people have the right to point out the realities of the situation to you in an effort to make a balanced point. Although I'm not sure it improves your position that you know people who will likely be made redundant and STILL chose to use their situation as ammo against someone who frequently has a view different from yours. I'm sure you feel it's only fair given the stick you sometimes get on here but you have to know that people feel passionately about their sports teams and will often react quickly in the face of provocation. Provocation, your tone would suggest, you take some enjoyment from dishing out. I can see why you're at it with viking, but is doesn't mean that you're in the right either.[/p][/quote]That would be the similar sort of 'we're in the money' gloating would it? TVOR, although commenting in what appears a negative manner has only been pointing out warnings and pitfalls. The thickness of the rose tints blinded people to these and instead they preferred to listen to and believe the proven BS which has culminated in a continuous downward spiral over the last few years. By the way, he is in the right and has been about most things. Viking has not, he's a mug. And continues to be so and prove it often. Even the guy above who has been involved in a takeover is dubious that the guys at the helm have followed correct procedure and if they have they have either been duped or worse, stupid. Don't forget, if the due dilligence period is still in force, they can walk away.[/p][/quote]I don't recall gloating when Khan came on board, and I don't care what you think about Viking, I've never met the guy and I don't agree with everything he or TVOR say. I'm capable of forming and discussing my own opinions. One of which, if you'd care to read the thread back, was that it was wrong of TVOR to gloat about being proven right ( and he IS right, by the way) when people will be losing their jobs in and around Christmas time. Players are ring fenced. Cleaners and office staff aren't. I will continue to think this as I'm sure TVOR would agree that he neglected the bigger picture for the moment. He's probably a little tee'd off you feel the needs to fight some none existent battle for him given that he's nothing if not a feisty poster, to say the least. If the new owners walk away then newer owners will eventually be found and the club will go on in one form or another. I will continue to support that club, although not blindly, and acclimate myself with the fact that we live within our means and don't sweep all before us anymore. It must be easy to support a successful, winning team. Lythambull

1:20pm Fri 6 Dec 13

Parz says...

Andy2010 wrote:
Loyalbull1981 wrote:
Parz wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
Parz wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
Parz wrote: Well the brutal honesty at the latest forum was a nice change. The news wasn't good, but to actually be told was, it's what we've been missing and what's been so incredibly frustrating. Here's to hoping that Moore, Watt and Calvert turn out to be better than OK, GS, and RW. They've got my support anyway, good luck to them.
They still aren't telling you or others the FULL story Await further developments in the next couple of weeks
Maybe they are, maybe they're not. Far as I know they are, and I've nothing to say otherwise, so I remain optimistic. With all due respect, your statement of "await further developments in the next couple of weeks" is that vague and broad reaching that, providing ANYTHING happens in the next couple of weeks you could link it back to here and claim you're right. Unless you've something a bit more concrete or specific, I'm not inclined to believe you know any more than anyone else.
Thats very true. Obviously I cannot go into details so please disregard my earlier comment.
I think this is part of the problem people have. There are far too many people who do the whole "I know something, but I'm not going to tell you what, I'm just going to make some vague comment and link it back later and claim I was right", which waters down the argument of anyone who does know things and frustrates the people who have a genuine interest in what's going on.
couldnt agree more and the most sensible statement yet. hate the ''i know this but only gunna tell you a snippet of it so you keep begging me for more info so i can boost my ego about being in the know'' people. Sick to death of it. People should just either say it how it is or not bother. Hate riddlers sooooo boring
I cant go into details for business reasons but the top and bottom of this is even if they cut back to the bone they have no money and are losing money month after month. The new owners (after meeting with one of them only this week) openly admit this and I get the impression they are sick to death of the club already as without investment its a one way road. These new owners simply do not have the funds nor the business know how to turn the Bulls around. Lets just leave it at that and await further announcements
I'm hoping that your spectacularly wrong, mostly because I want the Bulls back to the good old days when my trip to Old Trafford became an annual fixture, and partly (and possibly selfishly) because I've already paid for my season ticket for next year. It was good to see Provident are continuing to back us and that BK said he's definately coming back. Optimism all the way. Hopefully we can survive through to next year and get back to being paid the Sky money as well. It's not a silver bullet to solve all our problems, but it'll help.
[quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Loyalbull1981[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parz[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parz[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parz[/bold] wrote: Well the brutal honesty at the latest forum was a nice change. The news wasn't good, but to actually be told was, it's what we've been missing and what's been so incredibly frustrating. Here's to hoping that Moore, Watt and Calvert turn out to be better than OK, GS, and RW. They've got my support anyway, good luck to them.[/p][/quote]They still aren't telling you or others the FULL story Await further developments in the next couple of weeks[/p][/quote]Maybe they are, maybe they're not. Far as I know they are, and I've nothing to say otherwise, so I remain optimistic. With all due respect, your statement of "await further developments in the next couple of weeks" is that vague and broad reaching that, providing ANYTHING happens in the next couple of weeks you could link it back to here and claim you're right. Unless you've something a bit more concrete or specific, I'm not inclined to believe you know any more than anyone else.[/p][/quote]Thats very true. Obviously I cannot go into details so please disregard my earlier comment.[/p][/quote]I think this is part of the problem people have. There are far too many people who do the whole "I know something, but I'm not going to tell you what, I'm just going to make some vague comment and link it back later and claim I was right", which waters down the argument of anyone who does know things and frustrates the people who have a genuine interest in what's going on.[/p][/quote]couldnt agree more and the most sensible statement yet. hate the ''i know this but only gunna tell you a snippet of it so you keep begging me for more info so i can boost my ego about being in the know'' people. Sick to death of it. People should just either say it how it is or not bother. Hate riddlers sooooo boring[/p][/quote]I cant go into details for business reasons but the top and bottom of this is even if they cut back to the bone they have no money and are losing money month after month. The new owners (after meeting with one of them only this week) openly admit this and I get the impression they are sick to death of the club already as without investment its a one way road. These new owners simply do not have the funds nor the business know how to turn the Bulls around. Lets just leave it at that and await further announcements[/p][/quote]I'm hoping that your spectacularly wrong, mostly because I want the Bulls back to the good old days when my trip to Old Trafford became an annual fixture, and partly (and possibly selfishly) because I've already paid for my season ticket for next year. It was good to see Provident are continuing to back us and that BK said he's definately coming back. Optimism all the way. Hopefully we can survive through to next year and get back to being paid the Sky money as well. It's not a silver bullet to solve all our problems, but it'll help. Parz

2:14pm Fri 6 Dec 13

Andy2010 says...

Parz wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
Loyalbull1981 wrote:
Parz wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
Parz wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
Parz wrote: Well the brutal honesty at the latest forum was a nice change. The news wasn't good, but to actually be told was, it's what we've been missing and what's been so incredibly frustrating. Here's to hoping that Moore, Watt and Calvert turn out to be better than OK, GS, and RW. They've got my support anyway, good luck to them.
They still aren't telling you or others the FULL story Await further developments in the next couple of weeks
Maybe they are, maybe they're not. Far as I know they are, and I've nothing to say otherwise, so I remain optimistic. With all due respect, your statement of "await further developments in the next couple of weeks" is that vague and broad reaching that, providing ANYTHING happens in the next couple of weeks you could link it back to here and claim you're right. Unless you've something a bit more concrete or specific, I'm not inclined to believe you know any more than anyone else.
Thats very true. Obviously I cannot go into details so please disregard my earlier comment.
I think this is part of the problem people have. There are far too many people who do the whole "I know something, but I'm not going to tell you what, I'm just going to make some vague comment and link it back later and claim I was right", which waters down the argument of anyone who does know things and frustrates the people who have a genuine interest in what's going on.
couldnt agree more and the most sensible statement yet. hate the ''i know this but only gunna tell you a snippet of it so you keep begging me for more info so i can boost my ego about being in the know'' people. Sick to death of it. People should just either say it how it is or not bother. Hate riddlers sooooo boring
I cant go into details for business reasons but the top and bottom of this is even if they cut back to the bone they have no money and are losing money month after month. The new owners (after meeting with one of them only this week) openly admit this and I get the impression they are sick to death of the club already as without investment its a one way road. These new owners simply do not have the funds nor the business know how to turn the Bulls around. Lets just leave it at that and await further announcements
I'm hoping that your spectacularly wrong, mostly because I want the Bulls back to the good old days when my trip to Old Trafford became an annual fixture, and partly (and possibly selfishly) because I've already paid for my season ticket for next year. It was good to see Provident are continuing to back us and that BK said he's definately coming back. Optimism all the way. Hopefully we can survive through to next year and get back to being paid the Sky money as well. It's not a silver bullet to solve all our problems, but it'll help.
I hope I'm wrong as well from both a business and fan point of view.

I honestly believe though that the directors here although meaning well have been thrown in the deep end and can see no way of getting out. I have a suspicions that shortly one if not both will leave due to an irreparable situation.

Lets face facts here. Even if season ticket sales doubled and all facilities were booked up BB would still be lucky to even break even. You can only flog a dead horse for so long
[quote][p][bold]Parz[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Loyalbull1981[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parz[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parz[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parz[/bold] wrote: Well the brutal honesty at the latest forum was a nice change. The news wasn't good, but to actually be told was, it's what we've been missing and what's been so incredibly frustrating. Here's to hoping that Moore, Watt and Calvert turn out to be better than OK, GS, and RW. They've got my support anyway, good luck to them.[/p][/quote]They still aren't telling you or others the FULL story Await further developments in the next couple of weeks[/p][/quote]Maybe they are, maybe they're not. Far as I know they are, and I've nothing to say otherwise, so I remain optimistic. With all due respect, your statement of "await further developments in the next couple of weeks" is that vague and broad reaching that, providing ANYTHING happens in the next couple of weeks you could link it back to here and claim you're right. Unless you've something a bit more concrete or specific, I'm not inclined to believe you know any more than anyone else.[/p][/quote]Thats very true. Obviously I cannot go into details so please disregard my earlier comment.[/p][/quote]I think this is part of the problem people have. There are far too many people who do the whole "I know something, but I'm not going to tell you what, I'm just going to make some vague comment and link it back later and claim I was right", which waters down the argument of anyone who does know things and frustrates the people who have a genuine interest in what's going on.[/p][/quote]couldnt agree more and the most sensible statement yet. hate the ''i know this but only gunna tell you a snippet of it so you keep begging me for more info so i can boost my ego about being in the know'' people. Sick to death of it. People should just either say it how it is or not bother. Hate riddlers sooooo boring[/p][/quote]I cant go into details for business reasons but the top and bottom of this is even if they cut back to the bone they have no money and are losing money month after month. The new owners (after meeting with one of them only this week) openly admit this and I get the impression they are sick to death of the club already as without investment its a one way road. These new owners simply do not have the funds nor the business know how to turn the Bulls around. Lets just leave it at that and await further announcements[/p][/quote]I'm hoping that your spectacularly wrong, mostly because I want the Bulls back to the good old days when my trip to Old Trafford became an annual fixture, and partly (and possibly selfishly) because I've already paid for my season ticket for next year. It was good to see Provident are continuing to back us and that BK said he's definately coming back. Optimism all the way. Hopefully we can survive through to next year and get back to being paid the Sky money as well. It's not a silver bullet to solve all our problems, but it'll help.[/p][/quote]I hope I'm wrong as well from both a business and fan point of view. I honestly believe though that the directors here although meaning well have been thrown in the deep end and can see no way of getting out. I have a suspicions that shortly one if not both will leave due to an irreparable situation. Lets face facts here. Even if season ticket sales doubled and all facilities were booked up BB would still be lucky to even break even. You can only flog a dead horse for so long Andy2010

2:21pm Fri 6 Dec 13

franklyn says...

I thought the RFL were supposed to go through bulls finances with a fine toothed comb. all they found was one man deemed not a fit person to be on the board of a RL club.
does this not just show what a set of muppet's we have running the RFL.
This coming season bulls like any other club in SL have to prove their worth or be relegated.
Just can't imagine what the new signings are making of all this, and wonder if they regret ever having heard of the bulls.
we will just have to wait and see what the outcome is as we have found we can't believe a word we are told by those in charge at odsal. just glad i ain't one of those who rushed out to buy a season ticket, it could be they ain't worth the paper they are printed on.
I thought the RFL were supposed to go through bulls finances with a fine toothed comb. all they found was one man deemed not a fit person to be on the board of a RL club. does this not just show what a set of muppet's we have running the RFL. This coming season bulls like any other club in SL have to prove their worth or be relegated. Just can't imagine what the new signings are making of all this, and wonder if they regret ever having heard of the bulls. we will just have to wait and see what the outcome is as we have found we can't believe a word we are told by those in charge at odsal. just glad i ain't one of those who rushed out to buy a season ticket, it could be they ain't worth the paper they are printed on. franklyn

2:35pm Fri 6 Dec 13

axelf1963 says...

I have been holding my tongue somewhat in the last few days but here goes:

VIKING YOU KNOW NOTHING AND THAT IS WHY YOU HAVE GONE INTO HIDING WITH YOUR MINIONS LIKE SHEFF DULL , MUMBLY AND THE REST, EVEN BRIANS WIFE HAS ALLOWED HIM TO DEFEND HIMSELF.
How did the song go ?

WE'RE IN THE MONEY
WE GOT NO PLAYERS
WHAT A JOKE OF A CLUB WE REALLY ARE

Sing along VIKING use your last gasps son
I have been holding my tongue somewhat in the last few days but here goes: VIKING YOU KNOW NOTHING AND THAT IS WHY YOU HAVE GONE INTO HIDING WITH YOUR MINIONS LIKE SHEFF DULL , MUMBLY AND THE REST, EVEN BRIANS WIFE HAS ALLOWED HIM TO DEFEND HIMSELF. How did the song go ? WE'RE IN THE MONEY WE GOT NO PLAYERS WHAT A JOKE OF A CLUB WE REALLY ARE Sing along VIKING use your last gasps son axelf1963

2:57pm Fri 6 Dec 13

bbibby says...

axelf1963 wrote:
I have been holding my tongue somewhat in the last few days but here goes:

VIKING YOU KNOW NOTHING AND THAT IS WHY YOU HAVE GONE INTO HIDING WITH YOUR MINIONS LIKE SHEFF DULL , MUMBLY AND THE REST, EVEN BRIANS WIFE HAS ALLOWED HIM TO DEFEND HIMSELF.
How did the song go ?

WE'RE IN THE MONEY
WE GOT NO PLAYERS
WHAT A JOKE OF A CLUB WE REALLY ARE

Sing along VIKING use your last gasps son
All together now, sing along Viking with your followers. Wait till the Fire Sale. What will Khans next move be??? Amazing all those who sang his praises. Have gone to ground. I would not blame those left if they walked,why clean up Omar's Mess. Robbie will find it difficult to shift the Players who are big earners. The Debt will go Up and Up. Depressing!
[quote][p][bold]axelf1963[/bold] wrote: I have been holding my tongue somewhat in the last few days but here goes: VIKING YOU KNOW NOTHING AND THAT IS WHY YOU HAVE GONE INTO HIDING WITH YOUR MINIONS LIKE SHEFF DULL , MUMBLY AND THE REST, EVEN BRIANS WIFE HAS ALLOWED HIM TO DEFEND HIMSELF. How did the song go ? WE'RE IN THE MONEY WE GOT NO PLAYERS WHAT A JOKE OF A CLUB WE REALLY ARE Sing along VIKING use your last gasps son[/p][/quote]All together now, sing along Viking with your followers. Wait till the Fire Sale. What will Khans next move be??? Amazing all those who sang his praises. Have gone to ground. I would not blame those left if they walked,why clean up Omar's Mess. Robbie will find it difficult to shift the Players who are big earners. The Debt will go Up and Up. Depressing! bbibby

3:24pm Fri 6 Dec 13

LoyalBull says...

axelf1963 wrote:
I have been holding my tongue somewhat in the last few days but here goes:

VIKING YOU KNOW NOTHING AND THAT IS WHY YOU HAVE GONE INTO HIDING WITH YOUR MINIONS LIKE SHEFF DULL , MUMBLY AND THE REST, EVEN BRIANS WIFE HAS ALLOWED HIM TO DEFEND HIMSELF.
How did the song go ?

WE'RE IN THE MONEY
WE GOT NO PLAYERS
WHAT A JOKE OF A CLUB WE REALLY ARE

Sing along VIKING use your last gasps son
I always had a feeling Viking was the same person as Sheffield Bull. At times I thought they were doing Stuart Duffy's job for him or is it actually him himself and with his job being on the line he cannot be bothered coming on here to defend anymore.
[quote][p][bold]axelf1963[/bold] wrote: I have been holding my tongue somewhat in the last few days but here goes: VIKING YOU KNOW NOTHING AND THAT IS WHY YOU HAVE GONE INTO HIDING WITH YOUR MINIONS LIKE SHEFF DULL , MUMBLY AND THE REST, EVEN BRIANS WIFE HAS ALLOWED HIM TO DEFEND HIMSELF. How did the song go ? WE'RE IN THE MONEY WE GOT NO PLAYERS WHAT A JOKE OF A CLUB WE REALLY ARE Sing along VIKING use your last gasps son[/p][/quote]I always had a feeling Viking was the same person as Sheffield Bull. At times I thought they were doing Stuart Duffy's job for him or is it actually him himself and with his job being on the line he cannot be bothered coming on here to defend anymore. LoyalBull

3:40pm Fri 6 Dec 13

Ahrmen Aleg says...

mines a pint wrote:
stiflers mom wrote:
mines a pint wrote:
What is troubling in this latest debacle at Odsal is the statement

"Directors Mark Moore, Ian Watt and Andrew Calvert claimed in a statement that “as each day goes by the board continues to receive more information detrimental to the stability of the business”."

Having been involved in the take over of a business & been part of the management team of a business that was being acquired by another business I have some understanding of the processes involved

Once a tacit agreement has been reached between two organisations there follows a period referred to as due diligence before any formal contract of sale / acquisition is finalised

This period is used to confirm that the net worth of the business to be acquired as declared by its current directors & financial accounts is actually accurate

It goes without saying that there is a legal responsibility on registered directors of a company to ensure that the accounts of a business truly reflect its standing at the time they were produced and any information material to the longevity of the business is declared both within the numbers & the narrative which forms the directors reports.

A fundamental part of this is the declaration of all its creditors and this would certainly include information on creditors / loans who would be "detrimental to the stability of the business"

As I understand it failure to declare ANY information which could materially affect the performance of a business is a criminal offence

The normal process of acquiring a company would involve a thorough investigation of the published account moreover the due diligence process should seek to confirm that the trading position of the business is as stated in the accounts it is also not uncommon where the last published accounts are some months old for a company to re state its accounts based on the current position as part of the documents presented to potential buyers

The current board does stop some way short of accusing the previous administration of deliberately covering up the full extent of the businesses debts but I can't help feeling that that is what they are trying to imply

“The last administrative team struggled to understand the full impact of running this club and stepped away from the business with large outstanding debts which the club now needs to recover from.”

But here too there is cause for concern

At what point did the present board know the club had "large outstanding debts" are these debts the same as the "information detrimental to the stability of the business" we must assume not as the need to save £400k is being reported in such away that we are made to think the new board were not aware of this until recently and had budgeted accordingly for the "large debts" left by the previous administration but not this £400k

An interesting point that seems to be overlooked in this report is that as well as there being a responsibility on the outgoing administration to ensure financial & trading statements accurately reflect the position of the business there is equal responsibility on the acquiring organisation to conduct the process of due diligence with due care and attention

In my experience this usually involves the appointment of a team of experts drawn from the senior executives of the acquiring business and more importantly supported & guided by independent financial & legal advisor's

I am really struggling to see how "information detrimental to the stability of the business" would not have been uncovered if the process of due diligence had been undertaken correctly

Now of course the level of due diligence undertaken is often a factor of who the acquiring board are accountable to. In my case the business had a net worth of £50 million was listed on the UK stock exchange & was being acquired by a substantially larger organisation list on NASDAQ

In this situation both boards were accountable to the share holders and the process of due diligence took around 3 months to complete before the takeover was finally ratified

So that leaves me with the following questions:

1) What level of due diligence was undertaken if any (remember one of the original share holders failed the RFL's fit and proper persons test wouldn't this have been know if the correct due diligence had taken place.)?

2) Did the new board appoint appropriate independent advisor's to assist them in this process & if so who?

3) If independent advisor's were appointed & failed to uncover facts material to the future existence of the business what action are the board proposing to take against these advisor's to seek redress?

4) Has the process of due diligence actually been completed yet & if it has not are we likely to see the current board walk away from the takeover? I suspect the deal has been done with the previous regime given that OK has nothing further to do with the club & the RFL has sanctioned the takeover however it does not stop them walking away & leaving us with nothing!!

I sincerely hope that over the coming months we do not see a return to the public bickering & mud slinging that we witnessed recently between Messrs Hood & Caisley et al.

The board should not be detracted from the task at hand by publicly trying to apportion blame on someone else. If they had undertaken a comprehensive process of due diligence prior to their acquisition they would have been fully aware of the position of the club they therefore must assume a certain degree of responsibility

If on the other hand there is clear evidence to suggest material information was deliberately hidden from them to secure the sale of the club then they should pursue this through the correct legal channels

We are already the laughing stock of the RFL / Superleague & do not require any more of our dirty laundry washing so publicly

As a life long supporter of Northern & the Bulls I have already purchased my season ticket & to be honest I would have done so regardless of what division we play in that is what real supporter do!!

Many in Bradford do not have a great deal to be proud of. For to long the City has been the butt of comedians jokes. Over the years the condition of our once proud city has fallen further & further behind its neighbours. Leeds is clearly the 1st city of West Yorkshire but it is alarming that smaller towns such as Halifax & Wakefield have the ability to re generate re brand themselves & attract significant sums of investment in shopping centres housing & the arts whilst all we have to show are abandoned projects derelict buildings & a puddle outside the town hall

At least for 28 weeks of the year we could put all this to one side for 80 minutes & get behind the team I only hope that mismanagement does not take that away from us also!!!!!!!!!!!!!
easy for you to say !!!
Sorry thought I would try & bring some objectivity to the forum rather than engage with the usual mud slingers :o)
That's a good summary about how many feel about all things Bradford.
My guess is these 3 got further involved with the Bulls as they were fans and creditors.
The whole thing was rushed though due to the dire position.

I would doubt due diligence entered there heads as OK suddenly realising the hopelessness of his position walked away

There were warning signs as early as January when OK failed to meet on time his £25000 instalment payment for purchase.

And again in ay with HMC starting payroll recovery procedures for non payment of Income tax and NIC.

And again when players were not paid on time.Not sure if other staff were paid on time but that is a cardinal sin and good test of solvency.

The new owners are press ganged desperate owners.

Anxious to see a filing club survive.
I guess they do not seriously see their investment as hoping for return.
But want their team to survive.
Any team in RAB llke me.

Bradford Park Avenue survive now on a shoestring
And give a hard core of 500 die hards of up to 70 years following joy still once a week.
Its a pity their bid was not accepted.
The RFL backed the wrong horse.

I think OK must have briefly believed he was the Aga Khan.
[quote][p][bold]mines a pint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]stiflers mom[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mines a pint[/bold] wrote: What is troubling in this latest debacle at Odsal is the statement "Directors Mark Moore, Ian Watt and Andrew Calvert claimed in a statement that “as each day goes by the board continues to receive more information detrimental to the stability of the business”." Having been involved in the take over of a business & been part of the management team of a business that was being acquired by another business I have some understanding of the processes involved Once a tacit agreement has been reached between two organisations there follows a period referred to as due diligence before any formal contract of sale / acquisition is finalised This period is used to confirm that the net worth of the business to be acquired as declared by its current directors & financial accounts is actually accurate It goes without saying that there is a legal responsibility on registered directors of a company to ensure that the accounts of a business truly reflect its standing at the time they were produced and any information material to the longevity of the business is declared both within the numbers & the narrative which forms the directors reports. A fundamental part of this is the declaration of all its creditors and this would certainly include information on creditors / loans who would be "detrimental to the stability of the business" As I understand it failure to declare ANY information which could materially affect the performance of a business is a criminal offence The normal process of acquiring a company would involve a thorough investigation of the published account moreover the due diligence process should seek to confirm that the trading position of the business is as stated in the accounts it is also not uncommon where the last published accounts are some months old for a company to re state its accounts based on the current position as part of the documents presented to potential buyers The current board does stop some way short of accusing the previous administration of deliberately covering up the full extent of the businesses debts but I can't help feeling that that is what they are trying to imply “The last administrative team struggled to understand the full impact of running this club and stepped away from the business with large outstanding debts which the club now needs to recover from.” But here too there is cause for concern At what point did the present board know the club had "large outstanding debts" are these debts the same as the "information detrimental to the stability of the business" we must assume not as the need to save £400k is being reported in such away that we are made to think the new board were not aware of this until recently and had budgeted accordingly for the "large debts" left by the previous administration but not this £400k An interesting point that seems to be overlooked in this report is that as well as there being a responsibility on the outgoing administration to ensure financial & trading statements accurately reflect the position of the business there is equal responsibility on the acquiring organisation to conduct the process of due diligence with due care and attention In my experience this usually involves the appointment of a team of experts drawn from the senior executives of the acquiring business and more importantly supported & guided by independent financial & legal advisor's I am really struggling to see how "information detrimental to the stability of the business" would not have been uncovered if the process of due diligence had been undertaken correctly Now of course the level of due diligence undertaken is often a factor of who the acquiring board are accountable to. In my case the business had a net worth of £50 million was listed on the UK stock exchange & was being acquired by a substantially larger organisation list on NASDAQ In this situation both boards were accountable to the share holders and the process of due diligence took around 3 months to complete before the takeover was finally ratified So that leaves me with the following questions: 1) What level of due diligence was undertaken if any (remember one of the original share holders failed the RFL's fit and proper persons test wouldn't this have been know if the correct due diligence had taken place.)? 2) Did the new board appoint appropriate independent advisor's to assist them in this process & if so who? 3) If independent advisor's were appointed & failed to uncover facts material to the future existence of the business what action are the board proposing to take against these advisor's to seek redress? 4) Has the process of due diligence actually been completed yet & if it has not are we likely to see the current board walk away from the takeover? I suspect the deal has been done with the previous regime given that OK has nothing further to do with the club & the RFL has sanctioned the takeover however it does not stop them walking away & leaving us with nothing!! I sincerely hope that over the coming months we do not see a return to the public bickering & mud slinging that we witnessed recently between Messrs Hood & Caisley et al. The board should not be detracted from the task at hand by publicly trying to apportion blame on someone else. If they had undertaken a comprehensive process of due diligence prior to their acquisition they would have been fully aware of the position of the club they therefore must assume a certain degree of responsibility If on the other hand there is clear evidence to suggest material information was deliberately hidden from them to secure the sale of the club then they should pursue this through the correct legal channels We are already the laughing stock of the RFL / Superleague & do not require any more of our dirty laundry washing so publicly As a life long supporter of Northern & the Bulls I have already purchased my season ticket & to be honest I would have done so regardless of what division we play in that is what real supporter do!! Many in Bradford do not have a great deal to be proud of. For to long the City has been the butt of comedians jokes. Over the years the condition of our once proud city has fallen further & further behind its neighbours. Leeds is clearly the 1st city of West Yorkshire but it is alarming that smaller towns such as Halifax & Wakefield have the ability to re generate re brand themselves & attract significant sums of investment in shopping centres housing & the arts whilst all we have to show are abandoned projects derelict buildings & a puddle outside the town hall At least for 28 weeks of the year we could put all this to one side for 80 minutes & get behind the team I only hope that mismanagement does not take that away from us also!!!!!!!!!!!!![/p][/quote]easy for you to say !!![/p][/quote]Sorry thought I would try & bring some objectivity to the forum rather than engage with the usual mud slingers :o)[/p][/quote]That's a good summary about how many feel about all things Bradford. My guess is these 3 got further involved with the Bulls as they were fans and creditors. The whole thing was rushed though due to the dire position. I would doubt due diligence entered there heads as OK suddenly realising the hopelessness of his position walked away There were warning signs as early as January when OK failed to meet on time his £25000 instalment payment for purchase. And again in ay with HMC starting payroll recovery procedures for non payment of Income tax and NIC. And again when players were not paid on time.Not sure if other staff were paid on time but that is a cardinal sin and good test of solvency. The new owners are press ganged desperate owners. Anxious to see a filing club survive. I guess they do not seriously see their investment as hoping for return. But want their team to survive. Any team in RAB llke me. Bradford Park Avenue survive now on a shoestring And give a hard core of 500 die hards of up to 70 years following joy still once a week. Its a pity their bid was not accepted. The RFL backed the wrong horse. I think OK must have briefly believed he was the Aga Khan. Ahrmen Aleg

3:48pm Fri 6 Dec 13

Ahrmen Aleg says...

Andy2010 wrote:
Loyalbull1981 wrote:
Parz wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
Parz wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
Parz wrote: Well the brutal honesty at the latest forum was a nice change. The news wasn't good, but to actually be told was, it's what we've been missing and what's been so incredibly frustrating. Here's to hoping that Moore, Watt and Calvert turn out to be better than OK, GS, and RW. They've got my support anyway, good luck to them.
They still aren't telling you or others the FULL story Await further developments in the next couple of weeks
Maybe they are, maybe they're not. Far as I know they are, and I've nothing to say otherwise, so I remain optimistic. With all due respect, your statement of "await further developments in the next couple of weeks" is that vague and broad reaching that, providing ANYTHING happens in the next couple of weeks you could link it back to here and claim you're right. Unless you've something a bit more concrete or specific, I'm not inclined to believe you know any more than anyone else.
Thats very true. Obviously I cannot go into details so please disregard my earlier comment.
I think this is part of the problem people have. There are far too many people who do the whole "I know something, but I'm not going to tell you what, I'm just going to make some vague comment and link it back later and claim I was right", which waters down the argument of anyone who does know things and frustrates the people who have a genuine interest in what's going on.
couldnt agree more and the most sensible statement yet. hate the ''i know this but only gunna tell you a snippet of it so you keep begging me for more info so i can boost my ego about being in the know'' people. Sick to death of it. People should just either say it how it is or not bother. Hate riddlers sooooo boring
I cant go into details for business reasons but the top and bottom of this is even if they cut back to the bone they have no money and are losing money month after month. The new owners (after meeting with one of them only this week) openly admit this and I get the impression they are sick to death of the club already as without investment its a one way road.

These new owners simply do not have the funds nor the business know how to turn the Bulls around.

Lets just leave it at that and await further announcements
You are right they were ready to walk.

The RFL were ringing all those who previously expressed inters 18 months ago.

No takers there I am afraid.
[quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Loyalbull1981[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parz[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parz[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parz[/bold] wrote: Well the brutal honesty at the latest forum was a nice change. The news wasn't good, but to actually be told was, it's what we've been missing and what's been so incredibly frustrating. Here's to hoping that Moore, Watt and Calvert turn out to be better than OK, GS, and RW. They've got my support anyway, good luck to them.[/p][/quote]They still aren't telling you or others the FULL story Await further developments in the next couple of weeks[/p][/quote]Maybe they are, maybe they're not. Far as I know they are, and I've nothing to say otherwise, so I remain optimistic. With all due respect, your statement of "await further developments in the next couple of weeks" is that vague and broad reaching that, providing ANYTHING happens in the next couple of weeks you could link it back to here and claim you're right. Unless you've something a bit more concrete or specific, I'm not inclined to believe you know any more than anyone else.[/p][/quote]Thats very true. Obviously I cannot go into details so please disregard my earlier comment.[/p][/quote]I think this is part of the problem people have. There are far too many people who do the whole "I know something, but I'm not going to tell you what, I'm just going to make some vague comment and link it back later and claim I was right", which waters down the argument of anyone who does know things and frustrates the people who have a genuine interest in what's going on.[/p][/quote]couldnt agree more and the most sensible statement yet. hate the ''i know this but only gunna tell you a snippet of it so you keep begging me for more info so i can boost my ego about being in the know'' people. Sick to death of it. People should just either say it how it is or not bother. Hate riddlers sooooo boring[/p][/quote]I cant go into details for business reasons but the top and bottom of this is even if they cut back to the bone they have no money and are losing money month after month. The new owners (after meeting with one of them only this week) openly admit this and I get the impression they are sick to death of the club already as without investment its a one way road. These new owners simply do not have the funds nor the business know how to turn the Bulls around. Lets just leave it at that and await further announcements[/p][/quote]You are right they were ready to walk. The RFL were ringing all those who previously expressed inters 18 months ago. No takers there I am afraid. Ahrmen Aleg

3:49pm Fri 6 Dec 13

Ahrmen Aleg says...

Ahrmen Aleg wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
Loyalbull1981 wrote:
Parz wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
Parz wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
Parz wrote: Well the brutal honesty at the latest forum was a nice change. The news wasn't good, but to actually be told was, it's what we've been missing and what's been so incredibly frustrating. Here's to hoping that Moore, Watt and Calvert turn out to be better than OK, GS, and RW. They've got my support anyway, good luck to them.
They still aren't telling you or others the FULL story Await further developments in the next couple of weeks
Maybe they are, maybe they're not. Far as I know they are, and I've nothing to say otherwise, so I remain optimistic. With all due respect, your statement of "await further developments in the next couple of weeks" is that vague and broad reaching that, providing ANYTHING happens in the next couple of weeks you could link it back to here and claim you're right. Unless you've something a bit more concrete or specific, I'm not inclined to believe you know any more than anyone else.
Thats very true. Obviously I cannot go into details so please disregard my earlier comment.
I think this is part of the problem people have. There are far too many people who do the whole "I know something, but I'm not going to tell you what, I'm just going to make some vague comment and link it back later and claim I was right", which waters down the argument of anyone who does know things and frustrates the people who have a genuine interest in what's going on.
couldnt agree more and the most sensible statement yet. hate the ''i know this but only gunna tell you a snippet of it so you keep begging me for more info so i can boost my ego about being in the know'' people. Sick to death of it. People should just either say it how it is or not bother. Hate riddlers sooooo boring
I cant go into details for business reasons but the top and bottom of this is even if they cut back to the bone they have no money and are losing money month after month. The new owners (after meeting with one of them only this week) openly admit this and I get the impression they are sick to death of the club already as without investment its a one way road.

These new owners simply do not have the funds nor the business know how to turn the Bulls around.

Lets just leave it at that and await further announcements
You are right they were ready to walk.

The RFL were ringing all those who previously expressed inters 18 months ago.

No takers there I am afraid.
Sorry interest
All I wan for hristmas is a nw kyboard
[quote][p][bold]Ahrmen Aleg[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Loyalbull1981[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parz[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parz[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parz[/bold] wrote: Well the brutal honesty at the latest forum was a nice change. The news wasn't good, but to actually be told was, it's what we've been missing and what's been so incredibly frustrating. Here's to hoping that Moore, Watt and Calvert turn out to be better than OK, GS, and RW. They've got my support anyway, good luck to them.[/p][/quote]They still aren't telling you or others the FULL story Await further developments in the next couple of weeks[/p][/quote]Maybe they are, maybe they're not. Far as I know they are, and I've nothing to say otherwise, so I remain optimistic. With all due respect, your statement of "await further developments in the next couple of weeks" is that vague and broad reaching that, providing ANYTHING happens in the next couple of weeks you could link it back to here and claim you're right. Unless you've something a bit more concrete or specific, I'm not inclined to believe you know any more than anyone else.[/p][/quote]Thats very true. Obviously I cannot go into details so please disregard my earlier comment.[/p][/quote]I think this is part of the problem people have. There are far too many people who do the whole "I know something, but I'm not going to tell you what, I'm just going to make some vague comment and link it back later and claim I was right", which waters down the argument of anyone who does know things and frustrates the people who have a genuine interest in what's going on.[/p][/quote]couldnt agree more and the most sensible statement yet. hate the ''i know this but only gunna tell you a snippet of it so you keep begging me for more info so i can boost my ego about being in the know'' people. Sick to death of it. People should just either say it how it is or not bother. Hate riddlers sooooo boring[/p][/quote]I cant go into details for business reasons but the top and bottom of this is even if they cut back to the bone they have no money and are losing money month after month. The new owners (after meeting with one of them only this week) openly admit this and I get the impression they are sick to death of the club already as without investment its a one way road. These new owners simply do not have the funds nor the business know how to turn the Bulls around. Lets just leave it at that and await further announcements[/p][/quote]You are right they were ready to walk. The RFL were ringing all those who previously expressed inters 18 months ago. No takers there I am afraid.[/p][/quote]Sorry interest All I wan for hristmas is a nw kyboard Ahrmen Aleg

3:54pm Fri 6 Dec 13

Prisoner Cell Block A says...

Lythambull wrote:
Prisoner Cell Block A wrote:
Lythambull wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
Lythambull wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote: Missing Person : Viking. If seen feed with a large portion of Humble pie.
I think it's important to remember that whilst you wriggle with glee that you were proven right and taunt your online " nemesis" that people who work day to day at the bulls; in admin roles, in the shop, cleaning, and depend on those jobs to pay their mortgages etc are more than likely going to be made redundant just before or just after Christmas. Maybe you should think less about your small personal victory and more about the people who are going to suffer as a result of what's going in at the Bulls? E
As I have said I know some of these people and these are the same people who raised concerns. Meanwhile Khan, Sutcliffe and Whitcut disappear into the sunset. No financial worries still proclaiming themselves as the saviours.
So aim your contempt at Khan et al. If you know people who will be effected by this directly I'm sure that they aren't sat around blaming a poster on the T&A site, are they?? Plus you did on more than one occasion yesterday take the chance to gloat about being proven right so I think people have the right to point out the realities of the situation to you in an effort to make a balanced point. Although I'm not sure it improves your position that you know people who will likely be made redundant and STILL chose to use their situation as ammo against someone who frequently has a view different from yours. I'm sure you feel it's only fair given the stick you sometimes get on here but you have to know that people feel passionately about their sports teams and will often react quickly in the face of provocation. Provocation, your tone would suggest, you take some enjoyment from dishing out. I can see why you're at it with viking, but is doesn't mean that you're in the right either.
That would be the similar sort of 'we're in the money' gloating would it? TVOR, although commenting in what appears a negative manner has only been pointing out warnings and pitfalls. The thickness of the rose tints blinded people to these and instead they preferred to listen to and believe the proven BS which has culminated in a continuous downward spiral over the last few years. By the way, he is in the right and has been about most things. Viking has not, he's a mug. And continues to be so and prove it often. Even the guy above who has been involved in a takeover is dubious that the guys at the helm have followed correct procedure and if they have they have either been duped or worse, stupid. Don't forget, if the due dilligence period is still in force, they can walk away.
I don't recall gloating when Khan came on board, and I don't care what you think about Viking, I've never met the guy and I don't agree with everything he or TVOR say. I'm capable of forming and discussing my own opinions. One of which, if you'd care to read the thread back, was that it was wrong of TVOR to gloat about being proven right ( and he IS right, by the way) when people will be losing their jobs in and around Christmas time. Players are ring fenced. Cleaners and office staff aren't.
I will continue to think this as I'm sure TVOR would agree that he neglected the bigger picture for the moment.
He's probably a little tee'd off you feel the needs to fight some none existent battle for him given that he's nothing if not a feisty poster, to say the least.
If the new owners walk away then newer owners will eventually be found and the club will go on in one form or another. I will continue to support that club, although not blindly, and acclimate myself with the fact that we live within our means and don't sweep all before us anymore. It must be easy to support a successful, winning team.
The only valid points I take from that are the 'normal' people losing their jobs, Christmas or not is really irrelevant.

Plenty were 'gloating' with the exact phrase I used, viking was one of them, Mumby possibly another, anyway, both mugs as they see no further than the end of their noses.

I certainly am not in the habit of fighting TVOR's battles for him, we have disagreed many times on many things, this time he has been proven right time and again over a period of months, over various 'owners' and incumbents, to be the only one consistently able to see beyond the rhetoric and BS and has taken abuse for doing so. That would be my one and only reason for 'backing' him.
[quote][p][bold]Lythambull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Prisoner Cell Block A[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lythambull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lythambull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: Missing Person : Viking. If seen feed with a large portion of Humble pie.[/p][/quote]I think it's important to remember that whilst you wriggle with glee that you were proven right and taunt your online " nemesis" that people who work day to day at the bulls; in admin roles, in the shop, cleaning, and depend on those jobs to pay their mortgages etc are more than likely going to be made redundant just before or just after Christmas. Maybe you should think less about your small personal victory and more about the people who are going to suffer as a result of what's going in at the Bulls? E[/p][/quote]As I have said I know some of these people and these are the same people who raised concerns. Meanwhile Khan, Sutcliffe and Whitcut disappear into the sunset. No financial worries still proclaiming themselves as the saviours.[/p][/quote]So aim your contempt at Khan et al. If you know people who will be effected by this directly I'm sure that they aren't sat around blaming a poster on the T&A site, are they?? Plus you did on more than one occasion yesterday take the chance to gloat about being proven right so I think people have the right to point out the realities of the situation to you in an effort to make a balanced point. Although I'm not sure it improves your position that you know people who will likely be made redundant and STILL chose to use their situation as ammo against someone who frequently has a view different from yours. I'm sure you feel it's only fair given the stick you sometimes get on here but you have to know that people feel passionately about their sports teams and will often react quickly in the face of provocation. Provocation, your tone would suggest, you take some enjoyment from dishing out. I can see why you're at it with viking, but is doesn't mean that you're in the right either.[/p][/quote]That would be the similar sort of 'we're in the money' gloating would it? TVOR, although commenting in what appears a negative manner has only been pointing out warnings and pitfalls. The thickness of the rose tints blinded people to these and instead they preferred to listen to and believe the proven BS which has culminated in a continuous downward spiral over the last few years. By the way, he is in the right and has been about most things. Viking has not, he's a mug. And continues to be so and prove it often. Even the guy above who has been involved in a takeover is dubious that the guys at the helm have followed correct procedure and if they have they have either been duped or worse, stupid. Don't forget, if the due dilligence period is still in force, they can walk away.[/p][/quote]I don't recall gloating when Khan came on board, and I don't care what you think about Viking, I've never met the guy and I don't agree with everything he or TVOR say. I'm capable of forming and discussing my own opinions. One of which, if you'd care to read the thread back, was that it was wrong of TVOR to gloat about being proven right ( and he IS right, by the way) when people will be losing their jobs in and around Christmas time. Players are ring fenced. Cleaners and office staff aren't. I will continue to think this as I'm sure TVOR would agree that he neglected the bigger picture for the moment. He's probably a little tee'd off you feel the needs to fight some none existent battle for him given that he's nothing if not a feisty poster, to say the least. If the new owners walk away then newer owners will eventually be found and the club will go on in one form or another. I will continue to support that club, although not blindly, and acclimate myself with the fact that we live within our means and don't sweep all before us anymore. It must be easy to support a successful, winning team.[/p][/quote]The only valid points I take from that are the 'normal' people losing their jobs, Christmas or not is really irrelevant. Plenty were 'gloating' with the exact phrase I used, viking was one of them, Mumby possibly another, anyway, both mugs as they see no further than the end of their noses. I certainly am not in the habit of fighting TVOR's battles for him, we have disagreed many times on many things, this time he has been proven right time and again over a period of months, over various 'owners' and incumbents, to be the only one consistently able to see beyond the rhetoric and BS and has taken abuse for doing so. That would be my one and only reason for 'backing' him. Prisoner Cell Block A

3:59pm Fri 6 Dec 13

Ahrmen Aleg says...

I wonder where the fact that OK has so far only paid for 60 per cent of the net assets on purchase leaves him.

The Coral Stand was about the only asset.
The players inherited in insolvency were liabilities.
In business sense.
More should have been done to offload the big contract players.
Who were old.

Instead all the home produced lesser paid have been sacrificed or the too simply had enough of the circus.

OK would make a good circus ring master or a funster.

Fancy calling a kid on twitter a traitor.

For looking after his family
I wonder where the fact that OK has so far only paid for 60 per cent of the net assets on purchase leaves him. The Coral Stand was about the only asset. The players inherited in insolvency were liabilities. In business sense. More should have been done to offload the big contract players. Who were old. Instead all the home produced lesser paid have been sacrificed or the too simply had enough of the circus. OK would make a good circus ring master or a funster. Fancy calling a kid on twitter a traitor. For looking after his family Ahrmen Aleg

4:10pm Fri 6 Dec 13

raisemeup says...

mines a pint wrote:
What is troubling in this latest debacle at Odsal is the statement

"Directors Mark Moore, Ian Watt and Andrew Calvert claimed in a statement that “as each day goes by the board continues to receive more information detrimental to the stability of the business”."

Having been involved in the take over of a business & been part of the management team of a business that was being acquired by another business I have some understanding of the processes involved

Once a tacit agreement has been reached between two organisations there follows a period referred to as due diligence before any formal contract of sale / acquisition is finalised

This period is used to confirm that the net worth of the business to be acquired as declared by its current directors & financial accounts is actually accurate

It goes without saying that there is a legal responsibility on registered directors of a company to ensure that the accounts of a business truly reflect its standing at the time they were produced and any information material to the longevity of the business is declared both within the numbers & the narrative which forms the directors reports.

A fundamental part of this is the declaration of all its creditors and this would certainly include information on creditors / loans who would be "detrimental to the stability of the business"

As I understand it failure to declare ANY information which could materially affect the performance of a business is a criminal offence

The normal process of acquiring a company would involve a thorough investigation of the published account moreover the due diligence process should seek to confirm that the trading position of the business is as stated in the accounts it is also not uncommon where the last published accounts are some months old for a company to re state its accounts based on the current position as part of the documents presented to potential buyers

The current board does stop some way short of accusing the previous administration of deliberately covering up the full extent of the businesses debts but I can't help feeling that that is what they are trying to imply

“The last administrative team struggled to understand the full impact of running this club and stepped away from the business with large outstanding debts which the club now needs to recover from.”

But here too there is cause for concern

At what point did the present board know the club had "large outstanding debts" are these debts the same as the "information detrimental to the stability of the business" we must assume not as the need to save £400k is being reported in such away that we are made to think the new board were not aware of this until recently and had budgeted accordingly for the "large debts" left by the previous administration but not this £400k

An interesting point that seems to be overlooked in this report is that as well as there being a responsibility on the outgoing administration to ensure financial & trading statements accurately reflect the position of the business there is equal responsibility on the acquiring organisation to conduct the process of due diligence with due care and attention

In my experience this usually involves the appointment of a team of experts drawn from the senior executives of the acquiring business and more importantly supported & guided by independent financial & legal advisor's

I am really struggling to see how "information detrimental to the stability of the business" would not have been uncovered if the process of due diligence had been undertaken correctly

Now of course the level of due diligence undertaken is often a factor of who the acquiring board are accountable to. In my case the business had a net worth of £50 million was listed on the UK stock exchange & was being acquired by a substantially larger organisation list on NASDAQ

In this situation both boards were accountable to the share holders and the process of due diligence took around 3 months to complete before the takeover was finally ratified

So that leaves me with the following questions:

1) What level of due diligence was undertaken if any (remember one of the original share holders failed the RFL's fit and proper persons test wouldn't this have been know if the correct due diligence had taken place.)?

2) Did the new board appoint appropriate independent advisor's to assist them in this process & if so who?

3) If independent advisor's were appointed & failed to uncover facts material to the future existence of the business what action are the board proposing to take against these advisor's to seek redress?

4) Has the process of due diligence actually been completed yet & if it has not are we likely to see the current board walk away from the takeover? I suspect the deal has been done with the previous regime given that OK has nothing further to do with the club & the RFL has sanctioned the takeover however it does not stop them walking away & leaving us with nothing!!

I sincerely hope that over the coming months we do not see a return to the public bickering & mud slinging that we witnessed recently between Messrs Hood & Caisley et al.

The board should not be detracted from the task at hand by publicly trying to apportion blame on someone else. If they had undertaken a comprehensive process of due diligence prior to their acquisition they would have been fully aware of the position of the club they therefore must assume a certain degree of responsibility

If on the other hand there is clear evidence to suggest material information was deliberately hidden from them to secure the sale of the club then they should pursue this through the correct legal channels

We are already the laughing stock of the RFL / Superleague & do not require any more of our dirty laundry washing so publicly

As a life long supporter of Northern & the Bulls I have already purchased my season ticket & to be honest I would have done so regardless of what division we play in that is what real supporter do!!

Many in Bradford do not have a great deal to be proud of. For to long the City has been the butt of comedians jokes. Over the years the condition of our once proud city has fallen further & further behind its neighbours. Leeds is clearly the 1st city of West Yorkshire but it is alarming that smaller towns such as Halifax & Wakefield have the ability to re generate re brand themselves & attract significant sums of investment in shopping centres housing & the arts whilst all we have to show are abandoned projects derelict buildings & a puddle outside the town hall

At least for 28 weeks of the year we could put all this to one side for 80 minutes & get behind the team I only hope that mismanagement does not take that away from us also!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Spot on mate. The reasons for them not following , what you say are not clear.
But could relate to a PLC versus a Private Limited Company in how the approach has varied quite drastically from what was your experience.
I also have been involved in takeovers of such magnitude that involved two PLCs plus hostile takeover bids, and a few insolvent companies in my time.
Most were unpleasant, and the collateral damage to people is never a nice experience.

We shall probably never know the full extent of what transpired, but as loyal supporters we fervently hope to see our club being able to compete and entertain us for many more years to come.

Hope we all enjoy a good Xmas followed by a prosperous and healthy New Year.
[quote][p][bold]mines a pint[/bold] wrote: What is troubling in this latest debacle at Odsal is the statement "Directors Mark Moore, Ian Watt and Andrew Calvert claimed in a statement that “as each day goes by the board continues to receive more information detrimental to the stability of the business”." Having been involved in the take over of a business & been part of the management team of a business that was being acquired by another business I have some understanding of the processes involved Once a tacit agreement has been reached between two organisations there follows a period referred to as due diligence before any formal contract of sale / acquisition is finalised This period is used to confirm that the net worth of the business to be acquired as declared by its current directors & financial accounts is actually accurate It goes without saying that there is a legal responsibility on registered directors of a company to ensure that the accounts of a business truly reflect its standing at the time they were produced and any information material to the longevity of the business is declared both within the numbers & the narrative which forms the directors reports. A fundamental part of this is the declaration of all its creditors and this would certainly include information on creditors / loans who would be "detrimental to the stability of the business" As I understand it failure to declare ANY information which could materially affect the performance of a business is a criminal offence The normal process of acquiring a company would involve a thorough investigation of the published account moreover the due diligence process should seek to confirm that the trading position of the business is as stated in the accounts it is also not uncommon where the last published accounts are some months old for a company to re state its accounts based on the current position as part of the documents presented to potential buyers The current board does stop some way short of accusing the previous administration of deliberately covering up the full extent of the businesses debts but I can't help feeling that that is what they are trying to imply “The last administrative team struggled to understand the full impact of running this club and stepped away from the business with large outstanding debts which the club now needs to recover from.” But here too there is cause for concern At what point did the present board know the club had "large outstanding debts" are these debts the same as the "information detrimental to the stability of the business" we must assume not as the need to save £400k is being reported in such away that we are made to think the new board were not aware of this until recently and had budgeted accordingly for the "large debts" left by the previous administration but not this £400k An interesting point that seems to be overlooked in this report is that as well as there being a responsibility on the outgoing administration to ensure financial & trading statements accurately reflect the position of the business there is equal responsibility on the acquiring organisation to conduct the process of due diligence with due care and attention In my experience this usually involves the appointment of a team of experts drawn from the senior executives of the acquiring business and more importantly supported & guided by independent financial & legal advisor's I am really struggling to see how "information detrimental to the stability of the business" would not have been uncovered if the process of due diligence had been undertaken correctly Now of course the level of due diligence undertaken is often a factor of who the acquiring board are accountable to. In my case the business had a net worth of £50 million was listed on the UK stock exchange & was being acquired by a substantially larger organisation list on NASDAQ In this situation both boards were accountable to the share holders and the process of due diligence took around 3 months to complete before the takeover was finally ratified So that leaves me with the following questions: 1) What level of due diligence was undertaken if any (remember one of the original share holders failed the RFL's fit and proper persons test wouldn't this have been know if the correct due diligence had taken place.)? 2) Did the new board appoint appropriate independent advisor's to assist them in this process & if so who? 3) If independent advisor's were appointed & failed to uncover facts material to the future existence of the business what action are the board proposing to take against these advisor's to seek redress? 4) Has the process of due diligence actually been completed yet & if it has not are we likely to see the current board walk away from the takeover? I suspect the deal has been done with the previous regime given that OK has nothing further to do with the club & the RFL has sanctioned the takeover however it does not stop them walking away & leaving us with nothing!! I sincerely hope that over the coming months we do not see a return to the public bickering & mud slinging that we witnessed recently between Messrs Hood & Caisley et al. The board should not be detracted from the task at hand by publicly trying to apportion blame on someone else. If they had undertaken a comprehensive process of due diligence prior to their acquisition they would have been fully aware of the position of the club they therefore must assume a certain degree of responsibility If on the other hand there is clear evidence to suggest material information was deliberately hidden from them to secure the sale of the club then they should pursue this through the correct legal channels We are already the laughing stock of the RFL / Superleague & do not require any more of our dirty laundry washing so publicly As a life long supporter of Northern & the Bulls I have already purchased my season ticket & to be honest I would have done so regardless of what division we play in that is what real supporter do!! Many in Bradford do not have a great deal to be proud of. For to long the City has been the butt of comedians jokes. Over the years the condition of our once proud city has fallen further & further behind its neighbours. Leeds is clearly the 1st city of West Yorkshire but it is alarming that smaller towns such as Halifax & Wakefield have the ability to re generate re brand themselves & attract significant sums of investment in shopping centres housing & the arts whilst all we have to show are abandoned projects derelict buildings & a puddle outside the town hall At least for 28 weeks of the year we could put all this to one side for 80 minutes & get behind the team I only hope that mismanagement does not take that away from us also!!!!!!!!!!!!![/p][/quote]Spot on mate. The reasons for them not following , what you say are not clear. But could relate to a PLC versus a Private Limited Company in how the approach has varied quite drastically from what was your experience. I also have been involved in takeovers of such magnitude that involved two PLCs plus hostile takeover bids, and a few insolvent companies in my time. Most were unpleasant, and the collateral damage to people is never a nice experience. We shall probably never know the full extent of what transpired, but as loyal supporters we fervently hope to see our club being able to compete and entertain us for many more years to come. Hope we all enjoy a good Xmas followed by a prosperous and healthy New Year. raisemeup

4:12pm Fri 6 Dec 13

Ahrmen Aleg says...

Lythambull wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
Missing Person : Viking. If seen feed with a large portion of Humble pie.
I think it's important to remember that whilst you wriggle with glee that you were proven right and taunt your online " nemesis" that people who work day to day at the bulls; in admin roles, in the shop, cleaning, and depend on those jobs to pay their mortgages etc are more than likely going to be made redundant just before or just after Christmas.
Maybe you should think less about your small personal victory and more about the people who are going to suffer as a result of what's going in at the Bulls?
E
Perhaps if those n charge for 15 months had listened the employees would not e facing such worrying futures.

Its the T & A you should be having a go at.

Apparently the editorial sticks up for Khan and Sutciffe
I cannot find it though
[quote][p][bold]Lythambull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: Missing Person : Viking. If seen feed with a large portion of Humble pie.[/p][/quote]I think it's important to remember that whilst you wriggle with glee that you were proven right and taunt your online " nemesis" that people who work day to day at the bulls; in admin roles, in the shop, cleaning, and depend on those jobs to pay their mortgages etc are more than likely going to be made redundant just before or just after Christmas. Maybe you should think less about your small personal victory and more about the people who are going to suffer as a result of what's going in at the Bulls? E[/p][/quote]Perhaps if those n charge for 15 months had listened the employees would not e facing such worrying futures. Its the T & A you should be having a go at. Apparently the editorial sticks up for Khan and Sutciffe I cannot find it though Ahrmen Aleg

4:19pm Fri 6 Dec 13

bbibby says...

Ahrmen Aleg wrote:
I wonder where the fact that OK has so far only paid for 60 per cent of the net assets on purchase leaves him.

The Coral Stand was about the only asset.
The players inherited in insolvency were liabilities.
In business sense.
More should have been done to offload the big contract players.
Who were old.

Instead all the home produced lesser paid have been sacrificed or the too simply had enough of the circus.

OK would make a good circus ring master or a funster.

Fancy calling a kid on twitter a traitor.

For looking after his family
Yes, Khan is one who has Cut and Run and left our Club on the brink. NO Player was responsible for the melt down and not a badly paid one for that matter. Players are only employees and will be disposed of when it suits the Club. They are free to leave say the Bulls management so contracts are one sided !!!!!!!,
[quote][p][bold]Ahrmen Aleg[/bold] wrote: I wonder where the fact that OK has so far only paid for 60 per cent of the net assets on purchase leaves him. The Coral Stand was about the only asset. The players inherited in insolvency were liabilities. In business sense. More should have been done to offload the big contract players. Who were old. Instead all the home produced lesser paid have been sacrificed or the too simply had enough of the circus. OK would make a good circus ring master or a funster. Fancy calling a kid on twitter a traitor. For looking after his family[/p][/quote]Yes, Khan is one who has Cut and Run and left our Club on the brink. NO Player was responsible for the melt down and not a badly paid one for that matter. Players are only employees and will be disposed of when it suits the Club. They are free to leave say the Bulls management so contracts are one sided !!!!!!!, bbibby

4:19pm Fri 6 Dec 13

fedupwiththeBS says...

People have got it wrong on here; no one is gloating about being right over the situation at the Club, we are all fans and it is painful to see the state of a Club that was once the best in world.

People are feeling vindicated after being what amounts to bulling on here by the Rose tinted specs brigade.

I feel for the likes of Carvell, there he is no way he would have signed for the club if he had been told the truth or how many would have thrown their money away on a season ticket?

I know for a fact that the current board were aware of how much debt they were taking on possibly thinking they could get away with restructuring it; hence the newly registered Bulls 2014, but they were found out and left with no option but to almost come clean.

I too agree that the RFL are to blame for this, Park Avenue would have been my choice to take over the club and bring the clubs back together, at least Captain Bob has the means to keep the Club going and it would also give dual use to the stadium.

lets see what else is revealed in the coming weeks as we have still not been told the real depth that the club has sunk to.

Not a very festive time for Bulls fans or rugby fans.
People have got it wrong on here; no one is gloating about being right over the situation at the Club, we are all fans and it is painful to see the state of a Club that was once the best in world. People are feeling vindicated after being what amounts to bulling on here by the Rose tinted specs brigade. I feel for the likes of Carvell, there he is no way he would have signed for the club if he had been told the truth or how many would have thrown their money away on a season ticket? I know for a fact that the current board were aware of how much debt they were taking on possibly thinking they could get away with restructuring it; hence the newly registered Bulls 2014, but they were found out and left with no option but to almost come clean. I too agree that the RFL are to blame for this, Park Avenue would have been my choice to take over the club and bring the clubs back together, at least Captain Bob has the means to keep the Club going and it would also give dual use to the stadium. lets see what else is revealed in the coming weeks as we have still not been told the real depth that the club has sunk to. Not a very festive time for Bulls fans or rugby fans. fedupwiththeBS

4:27pm Fri 6 Dec 13

raisemeup says...

MeccaBingo1 wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
Parz wrote:
Well the brutal honesty at the latest forum was a nice change. The news wasn't good, but to actually be told was, it's what we've been missing and what's been so incredibly frustrating. Here's to hoping that Moore, Watt and Calvert turn out to be better than OK, GS, and RW. They've got my support anyway, good luck to them.
They still aren't telling you or others the FULL story

Await further developments in the next couple of weeks
Exactly, simply cannot believe some people on here. Please tattoo the word MUG on your heads.

It’s the tip of the iceberg.

Listen to what the clowns tell you and multiply it by about 5 and that’s how much trouble the club is in AGAIN!

No confidence in Club or RFL

Only solution to enter admin and drop into championship

End of story

Or die from a thousand cuts, as we are currently hell bent on
It is never going to depend on a quitter though is it?
Our deceased friend Trevor Foster always said to "Never Give In" which is a creed that many of our supporters obviously believe in!
ie A Winner never Quits, whereas A Quitter never Wins!
[quote][p][bold]MeccaBingo1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parz[/bold] wrote: Well the brutal honesty at the latest forum was a nice change. The news wasn't good, but to actually be told was, it's what we've been missing and what's been so incredibly frustrating. Here's to hoping that Moore, Watt and Calvert turn out to be better than OK, GS, and RW. They've got my support anyway, good luck to them.[/p][/quote]They still aren't telling you or others the FULL story Await further developments in the next couple of weeks[/p][/quote]Exactly, simply cannot believe some people on here. Please tattoo the word MUG on your heads. It’s the tip of the iceberg. Listen to what the clowns tell you and multiply it by about 5 and that’s how much trouble the club is in AGAIN! No confidence in Club or RFL Only solution to enter admin and drop into championship End of story Or die from a thousand cuts, as we are currently hell bent on[/p][/quote]It is never going to depend on a quitter though is it? Our deceased friend Trevor Foster always said to "Never Give In" which is a creed that many of our supporters obviously believe in! ie A Winner never Quits, whereas A Quitter never Wins! raisemeup

4:46pm Fri 6 Dec 13

Bacon Bantam says...

Ahrmen Aleg wrote:
Lythambull wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote: Missing Person : Viking. If seen feed with a large portion of Humble pie.
I think it's important to remember that whilst you wriggle with glee that you were proven right and taunt your online " nemesis" that people who work day to day at the bulls; in admin roles, in the shop, cleaning, and depend on those jobs to pay their mortgages etc are more than likely going to be made redundant just before or just after Christmas. Maybe you should think less about your small personal victory and more about the people who are going to suffer as a result of what's going in at the Bulls? E
Perhaps if those n charge for 15 months had listened the employees would not e facing such worrying futures. Its the T & A you should be having a go at. Apparently the editorial sticks up for Khan and Sutciffe I cannot find it though
It's here.

http://www.thetelegr
aphandargus.co.uk/ne
ws/news_opinion/feat
uresourview/10856951
.Bulls____new_owners
_face_huge_task/
[quote][p][bold]Ahrmen Aleg[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lythambull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: Missing Person : Viking. If seen feed with a large portion of Humble pie.[/p][/quote]I think it's important to remember that whilst you wriggle with glee that you were proven right and taunt your online " nemesis" that people who work day to day at the bulls; in admin roles, in the shop, cleaning, and depend on those jobs to pay their mortgages etc are more than likely going to be made redundant just before or just after Christmas. Maybe you should think less about your small personal victory and more about the people who are going to suffer as a result of what's going in at the Bulls? E[/p][/quote]Perhaps if those n charge for 15 months had listened the employees would not e facing such worrying futures. Its the T & A you should be having a go at. Apparently the editorial sticks up for Khan and Sutciffe I cannot find it though[/p][/quote]It's here. http://www.thetelegr aphandargus.co.uk/ne ws/news_opinion/feat uresourview/10856951 .Bulls____new_owners _face_huge_task/ Bacon Bantam

4:48pm Fri 6 Dec 13

Crusader20 says...

Andy2010 wrote:
Parz wrote:
Well the brutal honesty at the latest forum was a nice change. The news wasn't good, but to actually be told was, it's what we've been missing and what's been so incredibly frustrating. Here's to hoping that Moore, Watt and Calvert turn out to be better than OK, GS, and RW. They've got my support anyway, good luck to them.
They still aren't telling you or others the FULL story

Await further developments in the next couple of weeks
Robbie been on the blower to other clubs begging them to take some bulls players, can't see anyone being interested tbh! Average at best & grossly overpaid and bulls squad up!
[quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parz[/bold] wrote: Well the brutal honesty at the latest forum was a nice change. The news wasn't good, but to actually be told was, it's what we've been missing and what's been so incredibly frustrating. Here's to hoping that Moore, Watt and Calvert turn out to be better than OK, GS, and RW. They've got my support anyway, good luck to them.[/p][/quote]They still aren't telling you or others the FULL story Await further developments in the next couple of weeks[/p][/quote]Robbie been on the blower to other clubs begging them to take some bulls players, can't see anyone being interested tbh! Average at best & grossly overpaid and bulls squad up! Crusader20

5:09pm Fri 6 Dec 13

Andy2010 says...

raisemeup wrote:
MeccaBingo1 wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
Parz wrote:
Well the brutal honesty at the latest forum was a nice change. The news wasn't good, but to actually be told was, it's what we've been missing and what's been so incredibly frustrating. Here's to hoping that Moore, Watt and Calvert turn out to be better than OK, GS, and RW. They've got my support anyway, good luck to them.
They still aren't telling you or others the FULL story

Await further developments in the next couple of weeks
Exactly, simply cannot believe some people on here. Please tattoo the word MUG on your heads.

It’s the tip of the iceberg.

Listen to what the clowns tell you and multiply it by about 5 and that’s how much trouble the club is in AGAIN!

No confidence in Club or RFL

Only solution to enter admin and drop into championship

End of story

Or die from a thousand cuts, as we are currently hell bent on
It is never going to depend on a quitter though is it?
Our deceased friend Trevor Foster always said to "Never Give In" which is a creed that many of our supporters obviously believe in!
ie A Winner never Quits, whereas A Quitter never Wins!
Which is all well and good but a winner also expects to get paid and wouldn't be a winner without so
[quote][p][bold]raisemeup[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MeccaBingo1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parz[/bold] wrote: Well the brutal honesty at the latest forum was a nice change. The news wasn't good, but to actually be told was, it's what we've been missing and what's been so incredibly frustrating. Here's to hoping that Moore, Watt and Calvert turn out to be better than OK, GS, and RW. They've got my support anyway, good luck to them.[/p][/quote]They still aren't telling you or others the FULL story Await further developments in the next couple of weeks[/p][/quote]Exactly, simply cannot believe some people on here. Please tattoo the word MUG on your heads. It’s the tip of the iceberg. Listen to what the clowns tell you and multiply it by about 5 and that’s how much trouble the club is in AGAIN! No confidence in Club or RFL Only solution to enter admin and drop into championship End of story Or die from a thousand cuts, as we are currently hell bent on[/p][/quote]It is never going to depend on a quitter though is it? Our deceased friend Trevor Foster always said to "Never Give In" which is a creed that many of our supporters obviously believe in! ie A Winner never Quits, whereas A Quitter never Wins![/p][/quote]Which is all well and good but a winner also expects to get paid and wouldn't be a winner without so Andy2010

5:19pm Fri 6 Dec 13

Andybulls says...

Well the 3rd lot of recent owners have now admitted what most of the fans have long suspected, we are broke. What beggers belief is the fact that we are being told, yet again, that financial problems are being uncovered. These guys are supposed to have some business acumen, doesn't look like it to me and it doesn't appear proper due diligence was undertaken by this lot or indeed by the previous lot. Robbie was a great player for us but I am afraid he is devaluing his standing with the fans by constantly exaggerating how good position we are in when it is quite obviously we are not.

I have no problem with Mr Khan taking a step back when no other finance was forthcoming but why are we surprised that Sutcliffe disappeared from the ace of the earth when he was needed most. A man who looks after number 1.
The fans have been let down again and if the boys in charge think a bag full of season tickets will be sold before the new season they are sadly mistaken, plus if they think 10,000 fans will come through the gates they are also sadly mistaken.

It will be a miracle if we survive this season, if we do we might manage to start building next year if we don't get relegated and get the full Sky money so that we can compete on a level footing.

Another sad day for Bradford Bulls
Well the 3rd lot of recent owners have now admitted what most of the fans have long suspected, we are broke. What beggers belief is the fact that we are being told, yet again, that financial problems are being uncovered. These guys are supposed to have some business acumen, doesn't look like it to me and it doesn't appear proper due diligence was undertaken by this lot or indeed by the previous lot. Robbie was a great player for us but I am afraid he is devaluing his standing with the fans by constantly exaggerating how good position we are in when it is quite obviously we are not. I have no problem with Mr Khan taking a step back when no other finance was forthcoming but why are we surprised that Sutcliffe disappeared from the ace of the earth when he was needed most. A man who looks after number 1. The fans have been let down again and if the boys in charge think a bag full of season tickets will be sold before the new season they are sadly mistaken, plus if they think 10,000 fans will come through the gates they are also sadly mistaken. It will be a miracle if we survive this season, if we do we might manage to start building next year if we don't get relegated and get the full Sky money so that we can compete on a level footing. Another sad day for Bradford Bulls Andybulls

6:01pm Fri 6 Dec 13

Sheffieldbull says...

I must admit that the only thing that has lifted my mood following the stream of bad news coming from Odsal has been the baiting and assumptions on posters identity, of a few individuals posting on here. Those that are readily identifiable as the ‘I told you so brigade’ (over and over again) must be stiff with glee, however premature (as yet). Others are just sad cases.
.
I make the following points – just supposing we all listened to the ‘know it all’ sages on here – then what? It’s a genuine question. How would that have changed anything? I, like many more, some of who contribute to this comments section take this view - It’s all going to go ‘tist up’, so I will not support the Bulls anymore, I’ll stay away because I’ve been told that all is not well. Result, no team to support, no matches to attend, no mates to meet up with for a drink, no away matches (all mine are), holiday trips to France/ Northern Spain, in short no RL nothing! So, if it’s alright with you lot, I’ll continue to support my team, buy my season tickets, merchandise, and even dig deep when the Buckets are out, I can afford it and I want to, OK! Anyone got a problem with how I spend the money I work hard for?
.
So, for all those who got it ‘spot on’, congratulations!, no prize’s though. For those who predicted less accurate outcomes of doom, may I suggest the following; - To be always sure of hitting the Target, shoot first and then whatever you hit, call it the target!
.
For the record, I’ve NEVER posted under any other name, why would I need to?. My identity is known to many 'real' people, lots of whom still post on here, many that used to, and some who are employed at the Bulls. Sorry to disappoint! My glasses are not ‘rose tinted’ they are tinted in Red, Amber and Black and will be until the ship finally sails, whenever that may be. COYBs!
I must admit that the only thing that has lifted my mood following the stream of bad news coming from Odsal has been the baiting and assumptions on posters identity, of a few individuals posting on here. Those that are readily identifiable as the ‘I told you so brigade’ (over and over again) must be stiff with glee, however premature (as yet). Others are just sad cases. . I make the following points – just supposing we all listened to the ‘know it all’ sages on here – then what? It’s a genuine question. How would that have changed anything? I, like many more, some of who contribute to this comments section take this view - It’s all going to go ‘tist up’, so I will not support the Bulls anymore, I’ll stay away because I’ve been told that all is not well. Result, no team to support, no matches to attend, no mates to meet up with for a drink, no away matches (all mine are), holiday trips to France/ Northern Spain, in short no RL nothing! So, if it’s alright with you lot, I’ll continue to support my team, buy my season tickets, merchandise, and even dig deep when the Buckets are out, I can afford it and I want to, OK! Anyone got a problem with how I spend the money I work hard for? . So, for all those who got it ‘spot on’, congratulations!, no prize’s though. For those who predicted less accurate outcomes of doom, may I suggest the following; - To be always sure of hitting the Target, shoot first and then whatever you hit, call it the target! . For the record, I’ve NEVER posted under any other name, why would I need to?. My identity is known to many 'real' people, lots of whom still post on here, many that used to, and some who are employed at the Bulls. Sorry to disappoint! My glasses are not ‘rose tinted’ they are tinted in Red, Amber and Black and will be until the ship finally sails, whenever that may be. COYBs! Sheffieldbull

6:31pm Fri 6 Dec 13

bbibby says...

L'Estrange signed for Sydney Roosters!! . Could have done with transfer Fee still had a year on contract. Will Bulls ask for compensation????.
L'Estrange signed for Sydney Roosters!! . Could have done with transfer Fee still had a year on contract. Will Bulls ask for compensation????. bbibby

7:44pm Fri 6 Dec 13

axelf1963 says...

I said when he left he had something sorted and VIKING and his bummer boys shot me down.
Any new song ideas ?

Oh when the bulls
drop out the league
oh when the bulls drop out the league
I wanna be in that number
when the bulls drop out the league

SING ALONG VIKING
I said when he left he had something sorted and VIKING and his bummer boys shot me down. Any new song ideas ? Oh when the bulls drop out the league oh when the bulls drop out the league I wanna be in that number when the bulls drop out the league SING ALONG VIKING axelf1963

7:59pm Fri 6 Dec 13

Thee Voice of Reason says...

Sheffieldbull wrote:
I must admit that the only thing that has lifted my mood following the stream of bad news coming from Odsal has been the baiting and assumptions on posters identity, of a few individuals posting on here. Those that are readily identifiable as the ‘I told you so brigade’ (over and over again) must be stiff with glee, however premature (as yet). Others are just sad cases.
.
I make the following points – just supposing we all listened to the ‘know it all’ sages on here – then what? It’s a genuine question. How would that have changed anything? I, like many more, some of who contribute to this comments section take this view - It’s all going to go ‘tist up’, so I will not support the Bulls anymore, I’ll stay away because I’ve been told that all is not well. Result, no team to support, no matches to attend, no mates to meet up with for a drink, no away matches (all mine are), holiday trips to France/ Northern Spain, in short no RL nothing! So, if it’s alright with you lot, I’ll continue to support my team, buy my season tickets, merchandise, and even dig deep when the Buckets are out, I can afford it and I want to, OK! Anyone got a problem with how I spend the money I work hard for?
.
So, for all those who got it ‘spot on’, congratulations!, no prize’s though. For those who predicted less accurate outcomes of doom, may I suggest the following; - To be always sure of hitting the Target, shoot first and then whatever you hit, call it the target!
.
For the record, I’ve NEVER posted under any other name, why would I need to?. My identity is known to many 'real' people, lots of whom still post on here, many that used to, and some who are employed at the Bulls. Sorry to disappoint! My glasses are not ‘rose tinted’ they are tinted in Red, Amber and Black and will be until the ship finally sails, whenever that may be. COYBs!
The fans are the clubs biggest asset and if they don't question what the owner does the owner will do as he pleases.
The T&A has a big role in the downfall by just accepting what it is told. With the Bulls, with City when Richmond was in charge, with the council and with Westfield. It should have Bradford's interest at heart but it is fobbed off time and time again.
The club has to be transparent with the fans and the paper should do some reporting on any concerns not just be fobbed off with rubbish until the lies pile up and are unreversable before they are found out.
3 mortgage/charge notices were seen at companies house, a council loan was known and players had not been paid, the T&A instead of investigating just printed some rubbish about an admin error.
This can't happen again.
[quote][p][bold]Sheffieldbull[/bold] wrote: I must admit that the only thing that has lifted my mood following the stream of bad news coming from Odsal has been the baiting and assumptions on posters identity, of a few individuals posting on here. Those that are readily identifiable as the ‘I told you so brigade’ (over and over again) must be stiff with glee, however premature (as yet). Others are just sad cases. . I make the following points – just supposing we all listened to the ‘know it all’ sages on here – then what? It’s a genuine question. How would that have changed anything? I, like many more, some of who contribute to this comments section take this view - It’s all going to go ‘tist up’, so I will not support the Bulls anymore, I’ll stay away because I’ve been told that all is not well. Result, no team to support, no matches to attend, no mates to meet up with for a drink, no away matches (all mine are), holiday trips to France/ Northern Spain, in short no RL nothing! So, if it’s alright with you lot, I’ll continue to support my team, buy my season tickets, merchandise, and even dig deep when the Buckets are out, I can afford it and I want to, OK! Anyone got a problem with how I spend the money I work hard for? . So, for all those who got it ‘spot on’, congratulations!, no prize’s though. For those who predicted less accurate outcomes of doom, may I suggest the following; - To be always sure of hitting the Target, shoot first and then whatever you hit, call it the target! . For the record, I’ve NEVER posted under any other name, why would I need to?. My identity is known to many 'real' people, lots of whom still post on here, many that used to, and some who are employed at the Bulls. Sorry to disappoint! My glasses are not ‘rose tinted’ they are tinted in Red, Amber and Black and will be until the ship finally sails, whenever that may be. COYBs![/p][/quote]The fans are the clubs biggest asset and if they don't question what the owner does the owner will do as he pleases. The T&A has a big role in the downfall by just accepting what it is told. With the Bulls, with City when Richmond was in charge, with the council and with Westfield. It should have Bradford's interest at heart but it is fobbed off time and time again. The club has to be transparent with the fans and the paper should do some reporting on any concerns not just be fobbed off with rubbish until the lies pile up and are unreversable before they are found out. 3 mortgage/charge notices were seen at companies house, a council loan was known and players had not been paid, the T&A instead of investigating just printed some rubbish about an admin error. This can't happen again. Thee Voice of Reason

8:06pm Fri 6 Dec 13

axelf1963 says...

Come on TVOR give us a song lad
Come on TVOR give us a song lad axelf1963

9:00pm Fri 6 Dec 13

axlef1963 says...

WE LOVE YOU BRADFORD WE DO
WE LOVE YOU BRADFORD WE DO
WE LOVE YOU BRADFORD WE DO
OH BRADFORD WE LOVE
no matter what happens we will support our team ever more.You can gloat all you want ,if that's whats makes you happy carry on.But remember that if one day we don't survive there will be a lot of chairman wishing we had when there missing our away support you PLEB.No matter what happens the northern/bulls will always be burning bright in the hearts of true bulls fans,we will always be loyal COYB TILL I DIE
WE LOVE YOU BRADFORD WE DO WE LOVE YOU BRADFORD WE DO WE LOVE YOU BRADFORD WE DO OH BRADFORD WE LOVE no matter what happens we will support our team ever more.You can gloat all you want ,if that's whats makes you happy carry on.But remember that if one day we don't survive there will be a lot of chairman wishing we had when there missing our away support you PLEB.No matter what happens the northern/bulls will always be burning bright in the hearts of true bulls fans,we will always be loyal COYB TILL I DIE axlef1963

10:52pm Fri 6 Dec 13

Prisoner Cell Block A says...

No one is gloating, they are saying ;pay due dilligence' dont be fed and swallow BS, dont believe the hype.

I certainly don't want the Bulls to fail or fold but being an avid City fan I learned not to believe the party line, that includes the current board and chair(s). This is what I believe people have been trying to say inbetween the personal vendettas,

The best outcome would be a big sponsor or investor but I don't know of any in Bradford that would take that punt now.
No one is gloating, they are saying ;pay due dilligence' dont be fed and swallow BS, dont believe the hype. I certainly don't want the Bulls to fail or fold but being an avid City fan I learned not to believe the party line, that includes the current board and chair(s). This is what I believe people have been trying to say inbetween the personal vendettas, The best outcome would be a big sponsor or investor but I don't know of any in Bradford that would take that punt now. Prisoner Cell Block A

11:14pm Fri 6 Dec 13

tinytoonster says...

sheffieldbull says goes to away matches.
hardly helping bulls financially?
sheffieldbull says goes to away matches. hardly helping bulls financially? tinytoonster

1:26am Sat 7 Dec 13

axelf1963 says...

Wonder if new signing Mark Mexico may now change his mind ?...................
....................
....................
....What you did not know VIKING ?
Wonder if new signing Mark Mexico may now change his mind ?................... .................... .................... ....What you did not know VIKING ? axelf1963

6:50am Sat 7 Dec 13

fedupwiththeBS says...

So Whitcut has put the cat amongst the pigeons by saying that RHP and the rest of the board were fully aware of the debts which coupled with the fact that none of them have any money to invest shows that we are being taken for fools again and yet again have been lied to.

I feel for those that have brought season tickets as when this car crash limps into A&E those tickets will be worthless as the money for them has already been spent so any new owner will not be in a position to honour them.
So Whitcut has put the cat amongst the pigeons by saying that RHP and the rest of the board were fully aware of the debts which coupled with the fact that none of them have any money to invest shows that we are being taken for fools again and yet again have been lied to. I feel for those that have brought season tickets as when this car crash limps into A&E those tickets will be worthless as the money for them has already been spent so any new owner will not be in a position to honour them. fedupwiththeBS

8:33am Sat 7 Dec 13

Thee Voice of Reason says...

fedupwiththeBS wrote:
So Whitcut has put the cat amongst the pigeons by saying that RHP and the rest of the board were fully aware of the debts which coupled with the fact that none of them have any money to invest shows that we are being taken for fools again and yet again have been lied to.

I feel for those that have brought season tickets as when this car crash limps into A&E those tickets will be worthless as the money for them has already been spent so any new owner will not be in a position to honour them.
I notice they don't deny the debt exists. Thats the most telling part.
[quote][p][bold]fedupwiththeBS[/bold] wrote: So Whitcut has put the cat amongst the pigeons by saying that RHP and the rest of the board were fully aware of the debts which coupled with the fact that none of them have any money to invest shows that we are being taken for fools again and yet again have been lied to. I feel for those that have brought season tickets as when this car crash limps into A&E those tickets will be worthless as the money for them has already been spent so any new owner will not be in a position to honour them.[/p][/quote]I notice they don't deny the debt exists. Thats the most telling part. Thee Voice of Reason

Comments are closed on this article.

click2find

Get Adobe Flash player
About cookies

We want you to enjoy your visit to our website. That's why we use cookies to enhance your experience. By staying on our website you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more about the cookies we use.

I agree