Sutcliffe expects ‘no problems’ as RFL poised to rule over Bradford Bulls’ Super League status (From Bradford Telegraph and Argus)

Freedom of Information requests have been made to the Chief Executive at Bradford Council concerning the £200k loan made to the Bulls. the law states that they have to give the information within 20 days so they have but a few days left to respond.

Why did the new director's need that money? Did the application go before the full council for discussion in open meeting or was this deal done on the fly behind closed doors?

Why was the loan needed?

Hopefully this will just be a rubber stamp and we can build for the future. Glad we now have businessmen in charge rather than interested amateurs.

JAtkinson wrote:
Hopefully this will just be a rubber stamp and we can build for the future. Glad we now have businessmen in charge rather than interested amateurs.

or council officials eh?

tyker2 wrote:
Freedom of Information requests have been made to the Chief Executive at Bradford Council concerning the £200k loan made to the Bulls. the law states that they have to give the information within 20 days so they have but a few days left to respond. Why did the new director's need that money? Did the application go before the full council for discussion in open meeting or was this deal done on the fly behind closed doors? Why was the loan needed?

The directors of any company do NOT have to divulge to the general public as to why they need a commercial loan.
By the tone of your post you are almost making accusation of some wrong doing,if you are as brave as you think you are why not bring some concrete info to this forum,if you can't do this I suggest in future you stick to commenting on the actual article and stop trying to be a rebel rouser.
Queue TVOR and Alfuchem now...........

no accusation at all:it is public knowledge that a loan of £200k was made by the council and as that is an organisation responsibly handling tax payer monies that organisation is questionable under the freedom of Information Act. and it has to fully answer such requests within 20 days of the request.

Check out the council website if you are, in any way, doubtful about the ability of the general public to obtain information under such an Act.

No requesting information of the directors/shareholde
rs but of the Council.

tyker2 wrote:
Freedom of Information requests have been made to the Chief Executive at Bradford Council concerning the £200k loan made to the Bulls. the law states that they have to give the information within 20 days so they have but a few days left to respond.

Why did the new director's need that money? Did the application go before the full council for discussion in open meeting or was this deal done on the fly behind closed doors?

Why was the loan needed?

Pathetic! Surely, if you're that bothered, a request for ALL council loans would have been more insightful?

At least then you'd be able to see it's common practice for councils to give commercial loans to businesses.

tyker2 wrote:
no accusation at all:it is public knowledge that a loan of £200k was made by the council and as that is an organisation responsibly handling tax payer monies that organisation is questionable under the freedom of Information Act. and it has to fully answer such requests within 20 days of the request.

Check out the council website if you are, in any way, doubtful about the ability of the general public to obtain information under such an Act.

No requesting information of the directors/shareholde

rs but of the Council.

What are you hoping to learn? All the council will say is they load £200k, that wont be obliged to say what the Bulls wanted it for!

Companies take loads to improve cash flow, it's common practice, especially when they're in a situation like the bulls were and are starting pretty much from scratch.

ever heard the phrase "speculate to accumulate", probably need the money to pay the shirt supplier, of cover staff costs and stewarding for the stadium, and maybe to sort of the catering and bars.

seems strange tome that they are tightening everything up general yt have 200K to lend to a new company? I, as all taxpayers, have a right to know what loans are made. If there is nothing to hide there will be a fully disclosure. Any obfuscation should be judged acordingly

in addition 500000 plus taxpayers would be interested how their money is being used/invested in these times of severe cutbacks

tyker2 wrote:
in addition 500000 plus taxpayers would be interested how their money is being used/invested in these times of severe cutbacks

So now we know who you are?

Alf....... because you are the only poster who doesn't use a comma in his figures i.e 500000 .. Well we know one thing Alf.....you wont change your mind just like you wont change the subject...give it a rest mate!

Quoting the freedom of information act will do nothing. The council only have to divulge who took out the loan, not the purpose. So whilst you already know who got the loans...what the money was used for is a private limited companys confidential record as the data protection act will come into play as primary legislation...which states that a company or organisation cannot pass on information without owners consent to a party who doesn't need the information.
Oh yeah....we all know the law!!!!

tyker2 wrote:

JAtkinson wrote:
Hopefully this will just be a rubber stamp and we can build for the future. Glad we now have businessmen in charge rather than interested amateurs.

or council officials eh?

why go on and on and on about council
they have never done anything for Bradford
YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN CHUCKED OUT OF THE LEAGUE
AFTER GOING BUST
whome is gunna save you next time you go bust
PERHAPS DYNIMO LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

The last two paragraphs of the this article are the most significant and encouraging.

Sutcliffe, meanwhile, has been in talks with government officials in Qatar about how to replicate the success of its world-class Aspire sports facility.

The former Sports Minister has twice visited Qatar for talks and added: “I’m hoping to go back out there to seal the deal.”

raisemeup wrote:

tyker2 wrote:
in addition 500000 plus taxpayers would be interested how their money is being used/invested in these times of severe cutbacks

So now we know who you are?

Alf....... because you are the only poster who doesn't use a comma in his figures i.e 500000 .. Well we know one thing Alf.....you wont change your mind just like you wont change the subject...give it a rest mate!

yes indeed but will the real Alf stand up please

Tyker2, get ye gone, this is a rugby forum. Why bring something up, that you have mentioned before. If you have nothing else to say, keep your gob shut.

PS. The loan was not mentioned in the article.

PPS. I for one have no interest in why/how the loan was given. In fact I have no interest in ANY loans made by the council.

bantam59 wrote:

tyker2 wrote:

JAtkinson wrote:
Hopefully this will just be a rubber stamp and we can build for the future. Glad we now have businessmen in charge rather than interested amateurs.

or council officials eh?

why go on and on and on about council
they have never done anything for Bradford
YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN CHUCKED OUT OF THE LEAGUE
AFTER GOING BUST
whome is gunna save you next time you go bust
PERHAPS DYNIMO LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

The ability of Bradfordians to do themselves and each other down truly amazes me. There's so much sh*tting on our own doorstep, is it any wonder people we live in a cesspool?

Is there any chance at all we could as a city and district, see this as a positive without winding each other up?

Bantam59, as should City when they went bust. TWICE. Kettle, black, spring to mind.

bantam59 wrote:

tyker2 wrote:

JAtkinson wrote:
Hopefully this will just be a rubber stamp and we can build for the future. Glad we now have businessmen in charge rather than interested amateurs.

or council officials eh?

why go on and on and on about council
they have never done anything for Bradford
YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN CHUCKED OUT OF THE LEAGUE
AFTER GOING BUST
whome is gunna save you next time you go bust
PERHAPS DYNIMO LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

Goodness me, what an articulate post...not!. Another sad, bitter Bantam who cannot put a sentence together. I guess the only reason the hysterical laughter stopped was due to the arrival of the 'white coats'.
.
The one thing that is certain, I shall not lower myself to disparage Bradford City, the way some alleged City fans love to do on the Bull's comments section - very sad!

BTW I doubt anywhere near 500,000 people in Bradford pay council tax.

Plus it's a LOAN! surely you understand the principal of a loan? It not giving money to the BULLs is it.

I bet the council have lent to 100's of companies in recent years, why not complain about them.

Whilst you're doing a freedom of information request, why not ask if they've ever load BCFC anything? You might be surprised.

bantam59 wrote:

tyker2 wrote:

JAtkinson wrote: Hopefully this will just be a rubber stamp and we can build for the future. Glad we now have businessmen in charge rather than interested amateurs.

or council officials eh?

why go on and on and on about council they have never done anything for Bradford YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN CHUCKED OUT OF THE LEAGUE AFTER GOING BUST whome is gunna save you next time you go bust PERHAPS DYNIMO LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

Very short memory eh bantam!!!!!
Own back yard springs to mind,think before you post.

City fans, do you want to know the real reason for the £200k loan?

It's to go toward preparing Odsal to be a dual use stadium, with city moving there at the start of the 2013 season. It's all a bit hush hush, so don't tell anyone please.

I for one will welcome city with open arms, such lovely fans, a credit to Bradford.

mean 2014 season

JAtkinson wrote:

bantam59 wrote:

tyker2 wrote:

JAtkinson wrote: Hopefully this will just be a rubber stamp and we can build for the future. Glad we now have businessmen in charge rather than interested amateurs.

or council officials eh?

why go on and on and on about council they have never done anything for Bradford YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN CHUCKED OUT OF THE LEAGUE AFTER GOING BUST whome is gunna save you next time you go bust PERHAPS DYNIMO LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

The ability of Bradfordians to do themselves and each other down truly amazes me. There's so much sh*tting on our own doorstep, is it any wonder people we live in a cesspool? Is there any chance at all we could as a city and district, see this as a positive without winding each other up?

Funny how bantam59 as gone quiet wen reminded of his clubs wrong doings in the past!!
I am only a bulls fan have never really taken interest in bradford city but with there latest cup run i was wishing them the best of look and wa really happy with the revenue it brought in for them and the advertisement for the city!, But still why are there city fans readin bulls articles if all there going to contribute is negativity (nowt better to do with there lives..)

Can we not start and carry on this whole pointless City v Bulls arguement. I've never understood it and I never will.

I must admit that I cannot comprehend why anyone should be so bitter and twisted against either the Bulls or City?

If it was a creditor of the previous regimes of both clubs, you might expect a certain vindictiveness, but surely not to the ones who have or had nothing to do with either of the previous situation.
But I can't think that B59 was in a situation to have lost money as a creditor, usually people who run a business can articulate better than that.

So why the bile of such an attack???

oven the previous owners & directors of the club made such a mess, what on earth are this lot playing at?

just exactly what sort of business plan did they put together to say 6,500 season tickets at minimum £180 is disappointing? For a delay in shirts arriving, which is again down to the business plan & ongoing management to create such problems? Just what sort of funding does Omar khan actually have?

He bought the club for £150k up front with a further £75k due last December to P&A Partnership. There is an outstanding mortgage charge on Odsal in respect of this unpaid money.

OK Bulls approached Bradford council in December last year for a loan.

To be seeking bail out loans so soon is a sign of incredibly poor business forecasting & management.

I simply cannot understand why Omar Khan was unable to provide cash flow by other means. He is a man of means & is shown on Companies House as being director of 6 businesses. General Manager Ryan Whitcut is shown as being in 10 companies & Gerry Sutcliffe isn't short of money. Between them they weren't willing to raise the funds?

There are no sound commercial reasons why Bradford Council should have advanced a loan that is 25% higher than the lump sum paid to buy the club.

the business plan is clearly a joke & the loan is not secured against the clubs assets. This begs the question why not? Who approved it & on what grounds?

I'm told the loan is guaranteed, but given Omar Khan is the sole director & owner, has he guaranteed a loan for money he & his colleagues weren't willing to invest?

Where has all the money taken in season tickets, sponsorship & merchandise actually gone?

More importantly people should know that Barclays Bank registered a further mortgage charge for an undisclosed amount against Odsal in February this year. More borrowing on a shot to pieces business plan.

Barclays now has first call on the 30 year Odsal sublease, the Bradford Bulls brand, all assets and all future revenues.

ounces tax payers money should not be used to subsidise wealthy businessmen making a mess.

It's extremely concerning that given there are no grounds to make a loan to such a badly run & badly funded business, the council has gone ahead anyway.

Gerry Sutcliffe is Bradford South Labour MP & co chair at Bradford Bulls. Omar Khan is the sole director & owner of the club & a long standing friend & funder of Gerry Sutcliffe.

Bradford has a Labour Council. Join the dots & see why public money is being used to prop up a business where the big players don't want to put their own money in.

The Local Government Ombudsman needs to look at this loan, it's clearly not based on sound commercial facts & figures or properly secured.

David Green has some questions to answer.

Bone_idle18 wrote:
mean 2014 season

the city will never share that hole in the ground you call odsal
NEVER EVER EVER EVER

BierleyBoy wrote:
oven the previous owners & directors of the club made such a mess, what on earth are this lot playing at?

just exactly what sort of business plan did they put together to say 6,500 season tickets at minimum £180 is disappointing? For a delay in shirts arriving, which is again down to the business plan & ongoing management to create such problems? Just what sort of funding does Omar khan actually have?

He bought the club for £150k up front with a further £75k due last December to P&A Partnership. There is an outstanding mortgage charge on Odsal in respect of this unpaid money.

OK Bulls approached Bradford council in December last year for a loan.

To be seeking bail out loans so soon is a sign of incredibly poor business forecasting & management.

I simply cannot understand why Omar Khan was unable to provide cash flow by other means. He is a man of means & is shown on Companies House as being director of 6 businesses. General Manager Ryan Whitcut is shown as being in 10 companies & Gerry Sutcliffe isn't short of money. Between them they weren't willing to raise the funds?

There are no sound commercial reasons why Bradford Council should have advanced a loan that is 25% higher than the lump sum paid to buy the club.

the business plan is clearly a joke & the loan is not secured against the clubs assets. This begs the question why not? Who approved it & on what grounds?

I'm told the loan is guaranteed, but given Omar Khan is the sole director & owner, has he guaranteed a loan for money he & his colleagues weren't willing to invest?

Where has all the money taken in season tickets, sponsorship & merchandise actually gone?

More importantly people should know that Barclays Bank registered a further mortgage charge for an undisclosed amount against Odsal in February this year. More borrowing on a shot to pieces business plan.

Barclays now has first call on the 30 year Odsal sublease, the Bradford Bulls brand, all assets and all future revenues.

ounces tax payers money should not be used to subsidise wealthy businessmen making a mess.

It's extremely concerning that given there are no grounds to make a loan to such a badly run & badly funded business, the council has gone ahead anyway.

Gerry Sutcliffe is Bradford South Labour MP & co chair at Bradford Bulls. Omar Khan is the sole director & owner of the club & a long standing friend & funder of Gerry Sutcliffe.

Bradford has a Labour Council. Join the dots & see why public money is being used to prop up a business where the big players don't want to put their own money in.

The Local Government Ombudsman needs to look at this loan, it's clearly not based on sound commercial facts & figures or properly secured.

David Green has some questions to answer.

one very accurate summary. The council have but a few days left to provide the information requested. If they fail to do so then the matter ill have to be referred to the Information Commissioner but then........ if it is all above board and kosher why not provide the information.

I find it odd that the officials who made this loan apparently did not seek formal council approval by having it debated in open council. If that is so why was that?

tyker2 wrote:

BierleyBoy wrote:
oven the previous owners & directors of the club made such a mess, what on earth are this lot playing at?

just exactly what sort of business plan did they put together to say 6,500 season tickets at minimum £180 is disappointing? For a delay in shirts arriving, which is again down to the business plan & ongoing management to create such problems? Just what sort of funding does Omar khan actually have?

He bought the club for £150k up front with a further £75k due last December to P&A Partnership. There is an outstanding mortgage charge on Odsal in respect of this unpaid money.

OK Bulls approached Bradford council in December last year for a loan.

To be seeking bail out loans so soon is a sign of incredibly poor business forecasting & management.

I simply cannot understand why Omar Khan was unable to provide cash flow by other means. He is a man of means & is shown on Companies House as being director of 6 businesses. General Manager Ryan Whitcut is shown as being in 10 companies & Gerry Sutcliffe isn't short of money. Between them they weren't willing to raise the funds?

There are no sound commercial reasons why Bradford Council should have advanced a loan that is 25% higher than the lump sum paid to buy the club.

the business plan is clearly a joke & the loan is not secured against the clubs assets. This begs the question why not? Who approved it & on what grounds?

I'm told the loan is guaranteed, but given Omar Khan is the sole director & owner, has he guaranteed a loan for money he & his colleagues weren't willing to invest?

Where has all the money taken in season tickets, sponsorship & merchandise actually gone?

More importantly people should know that Barclays Bank registered a further mortgage charge for an undisclosed amount against Odsal in February this year. More borrowing on a shot to pieces business plan.

Barclays now has first call on the 30 year Odsal sublease, the Bradford Bulls brand, all assets and all future revenues.

ounces tax payers money should not be used to subsidise wealthy businessmen making a mess.

It's extremely concerning that given there are no grounds to make a loan to such a badly run & badly funded business, the council has gone ahead anyway.

Gerry Sutcliffe is Bradford South Labour MP & co chair at Bradford Bulls. Omar Khan is the sole director & owner of the club & a long standing friend & funder of Gerry Sutcliffe.

Bradford has a Labour Council. Join the dots & see why public money is being used to prop up a business where the big players don't want to put their own money in.

The Local Government Ombudsman needs to look at this loan, it's clearly not based on sound commercial facts & figures or properly secured.

David Green has some questions to answer.

one very accurate summary. The council have but a few days left to provide the information requested. If they fail to do so then the matter ill have to be referred to the Information Commissioner but then........ if it is all above board and kosher why not provide the information.

I find it odd that the officials who made this loan apparently did not seek formal council approval by having it debated in open council. If that is so why was that?

Maybe because it was a matter for the council financial department and not one for the council?

do you think the council debate everything that council departments do?

We need to employ a part time librarian, ok, lets raise it in the chambers next week? We need to fix a pothole on ingleby road, better raise that one in the chambers!

I think you're making it out to be something it isn't. Plus it's a LOAN which means it will be repaied with interest.

BierleyBoy wrote:
oven the previous owners & directors of the club made such a mess, what on earth are this lot playing at?

just exactly what sort of business plan did they put together to say 6,500 season tickets at minimum £180 is disappointing? For a delay in shirts arriving, which is again down to the business plan & ongoing management to create such problems? Just what sort of funding does Omar khan actually have?

He bought the club for £150k up front with a further £75k due last December to P&A Partnership. There is an outstanding mortgage charge on Odsal in respect of this unpaid money.

OK Bulls approached Bradford council in December last year for a loan.

To be seeking bail out loans so soon is a sign of incredibly poor business forecasting & management.

I simply cannot understand why Omar Khan was unable to provide cash flow by other means. He is a man of means & is shown on Companies House as being director of 6 businesses. General Manager Ryan Whitcut is shown as being in 10 companies & Gerry Sutcliffe isn't short of money. Between them they weren't willing to raise the funds?

There are no sound commercial reasons why Bradford Council should have advanced a loan that is 25% higher than the lump sum paid to buy the club.

the business plan is clearly a joke & the loan is not secured against the clubs assets. This begs the question why not? Who approved it & on what grounds?

I'm told the loan is guaranteed, but given Omar Khan is the sole director & owner, has he guaranteed a loan for money he & his colleagues weren't willing to invest?

Where has all the money taken in season tickets, sponsorship & merchandise actually gone?

More importantly people should know that Barclays Bank registered a further mortgage charge for an undisclosed amount against Odsal in February this year. More borrowing on a shot to pieces business plan.

Barclays now has first call on the 30 year Odsal sublease, the Bradford Bulls brand, all assets and all future revenues.

ounces tax payers money should not be used to subsidise wealthy businessmen making a mess.

It's extremely concerning that given there are no grounds to make a loan to such a badly run & badly funded business, the council has gone ahead anyway.

Gerry Sutcliffe is Bradford South Labour MP & co chair at Bradford Bulls. Omar Khan is the sole director & owner of the club & a long standing friend & funder of Gerry Sutcliffe.

Bradford has a Labour Council. Join the dots & see why public money is being used to prop up a business where the big players don't want to put their own money in.

The Local Government Ombudsman needs to look at this loan, it's clearly not based on sound commercial facts & figures or properly secured.

David Green has some questions to answer.

Businesses take loans out all the time. It's not that easy to use money across businesses.

I don't understand why people think a £200k load at this stage of the rebuilding process is unusual.

bantam59 wrote:

Bone_idle18 wrote:
mean 2014 season

the city will never share that hole in the ground you call odsal
NEVER EVER EVER EVER

We'll see. After the money made on the cup run is eaten up on a years rent at VP and very little of it will be used to develop the playing staff.

Or, as will happen, Lawn will move to Odsal, free up a load of money each year and build towards promotion to the championship. No ambition to go further at the moment.

Bone_idle18 wrote:

tyker2 wrote:

BierleyBoy wrote:
oven the previous owners & directors of the club made such a mess, what on earth are this lot playing at?

just exactly what sort of business plan did they put together to say 6,500 season tickets at minimum £180 is disappointing? For a delay in shirts arriving, which is again down to the business plan & ongoing management to create such problems? Just what sort of funding does Omar khan actually have?

He bought the club for £150k up front with a further £75k due last December to P&A Partnership. There is an outstanding mortgage charge on Odsal in respect of this unpaid money.

OK Bulls approached Bradford council in December last year for a loan.

To be seeking bail out loans so soon is a sign of incredibly poor business forecasting & management.

I simply cannot understand why Omar Khan was unable to provide cash flow by other means. He is a man of means & is shown on Companies House as being director of 6 businesses. General Manager Ryan Whitcut is shown as being in 10 companies & Gerry Sutcliffe isn't short of money. Between them they weren't willing to raise the funds?

There are no sound commercial reasons why Bradford Council should have advanced a loan that is 25% higher than the lump sum paid to buy the club.

the business plan is clearly a joke & the loan is not secured against the clubs assets. This begs the question why not? Who approved it & on what grounds?

I'm told the loan is guaranteed, but given Omar Khan is the sole director & owner, has he guaranteed a loan for money he & his colleagues weren't willing to invest?

Where has all the money taken in season tickets, sponsorship & merchandise actually gone?

More importantly people should know that Barclays Bank registered a further mortgage charge for an undisclosed amount against Odsal in February this year. More borrowing on a shot to pieces business plan.

Barclays now has first call on the 30 year Odsal sublease, the Bradford Bulls brand, all assets and all future revenues.

ounces tax payers money should not be used to subsidise wealthy businessmen making a mess.

It's extremely concerning that given there are no grounds to make a loan to such a badly run & badly funded business, the council has gone ahead anyway.

Gerry Sutcliffe is Bradford South Labour MP & co chair at Bradford Bulls. Omar Khan is the sole director & owner of the club & a long standing friend & funder of Gerry Sutcliffe.

Bradford has a Labour Council. Join the dots & see why public money is being used to prop up a business where the big players don't want to put their own money in.

The Local Government Ombudsman needs to look at this loan, it's clearly not based on sound commercial facts & figures or properly secured.

David Green has some questions to answer.

one very accurate summary. The council have but a few days left to provide the information requested. If they fail to do so then the matter ill have to be referred to the Information Commissioner but then........ if it is all above board and kosher why not provide the information.

I find it odd that the officials who made this loan apparently did not seek formal council approval by having it debated in open council. If that is so why was that?

Maybe because it was a matter for the council financial department and not one for the council?

do you think the council debate everything that council departments do?

We need to employ a part time librarian, ok, lets raise it in the chambers next week? We need to fix a pothole on ingleby road, better raise that one in the chambers!

I think you're making it out to be something it isn't. Plus it's a LOAN which means it will be repaied with interest.

This loan was discussed between the council leader & head of finance only.

Clearly the clubs business plan is shot to pieces. The blame for this lies squarely with the club owner & his advisers. He should fund HIS business cash flow problems from his own pocket or source money privately.

Bradford Council has no solid commercial basis upon which to make this loan.

Whatever scrutiny was applied was totally flawed and calls into question the competence & integrity of those officials.

Bradford Council has no right to use public money to fund the stupidity of Labour MP's friends.

Bone_idle18 wrote:

BierleyBoy wrote:
oven the previous owners & directors of the club made such a mess, what on earth are this lot playing at?

just exactly what sort of business plan did they put together to say 6,500 season tickets at minimum £180 is disappointing? For a delay in shirts arriving, which is again down to the business plan & ongoing management to create such problems? Just what sort of funding does Omar khan actually have?

He bought the club for £150k up front with a further £75k due last December to P&A Partnership. There is an outstanding mortgage charge on Odsal in respect of this unpaid money.

OK Bulls approached Bradford council in December last year for a loan.

To be seeking bail out loans so soon is a sign of incredibly poor business forecasting & management.

I simply cannot understand why Omar Khan was unable to provide cash flow by other means. He is a man of means & is shown on Companies House as being director of 6 businesses. General Manager Ryan Whitcut is shown as being in 10 companies & Gerry Sutcliffe isn't short of money. Between them they weren't willing to raise the funds?

There are no sound commercial reasons why Bradford Council should have advanced a loan that is 25% higher than the lump sum paid to buy the club.

the business plan is clearly a joke & the loan is not secured against the clubs assets. This begs the question why not? Who approved it & on what grounds?

I'm told the loan is guaranteed, but given Omar Khan is the sole director & owner, has he guaranteed a loan for money he & his colleagues weren't willing to invest?

Where has all the money taken in season tickets, sponsorship & merchandise actually gone?

More importantly people should know that Barclays Bank registered a further mortgage charge for an undisclosed amount against Odsal in February this year. More borrowing on a shot to pieces business plan.

Barclays now has first call on the 30 year Odsal sublease, the Bradford Bulls brand, all assets and all future revenues.

ounces tax payers money should not be used to subsidise wealthy businessmen making a mess.

It's extremely concerning that given there are no grounds to make a loan to such a badly run & badly funded business, the council has gone ahead anyway.

Gerry Sutcliffe is Bradford South Labour MP & co chair at Bradford Bulls. Omar Khan is the sole director & owner of the club & a long standing friend & funder of Gerry Sutcliffe.

Bradford has a Labour Council. Join the dots & see why public money is being used to prop up a business where the big players don't want to put their own money in.

The Local Government Ombudsman needs to look at this loan, it's clearly not based on sound commercial facts & figures or properly secured.

David Green has some questions to answer.

Businesses take loans out all the time. It's not that easy to use money across businesses.

I don't understand why people think a £200k load at this stage of the rebuilding process is unusual.

It's not as if the costs of running a club weren't known is it?

The problem arose because of rank bad business planning & ridiculous forecasting.

It is for the owners to fund their business decisions, no one else.

Why hasn't this happened? Because it's easier to call in favours from Labour colleagues & get other people's money on the cheap with no security against the business assets?

tyker2 wrote:
Freedom of Information requests have been made to the Chief Executive at Bradford Council concerning the £200k loan made to the Bulls. the law states that they have to give the information within 20 days so they have but a few days left to respond.

Why did the new director's need that money? Did the application go before the full council for discussion in open meeting or was this deal done on the fly behind closed doors?

Why was the loan needed?

Congratulations on your knowledge of the freedom of information act. Whilst most of us have lives to lead, work to go to and friends/family you obviously have plentyof time on your hands.
What I dont understand is why you need to post your actions on here where no one is interested in you or what you have to say which I suspect is probably the same in your sad life. Up the Bulls

bantam59 wrote:

tyker2 wrote:

JAtkinson wrote:
Hopefully this will just be a rubber stamp and we can build for the future. Glad we now have businessmen in charge rather than interested amateurs.

or council officials eh?

why go on and on and on about council
they have never done anything for Bradford
YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN CHUCKED OUT OF THE LEAGUE
AFTER GOING BUST
whome is gunna save you next time you go bust
PERHAPS DYNIMO LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

What a sad and pathetic City fan you are.

BierleyBoy wrote:

Bone_idle18 wrote:

tyker2 wrote:

BierleyBoy wrote:
oven the previous owners & directors of the club made such a mess, what on earth are this lot playing at?

just exactly what sort of business plan did they put together to say 6,500 season tickets at minimum £180 is disappointing? For a delay in shirts arriving, which is again down to the business plan & ongoing management to create such problems? Just what sort of funding does Omar khan actually have?

He bought the club for £150k up front with a further £75k due last December to P&A Partnership. There is an outstanding mortgage charge on Odsal in respect of this unpaid money.

OK Bulls approached Bradford council in December last year for a loan.

To be seeking bail out loans so soon is a sign of incredibly poor business forecasting & management.

I simply cannot understand why Omar Khan was unable to provide cash flow by other means. He is a man of means & is shown on Companies House as being director of 6 businesses. General Manager Ryan Whitcut is shown as being in 10 companies & Gerry Sutcliffe isn't short of money. Between them they weren't willing to raise the funds?

There are no sound commercial reasons why Bradford Council should have advanced a loan that is 25% higher than the lump sum paid to buy the club.

the business plan is clearly a joke & the loan is not secured against the clubs assets. This begs the question why not? Who approved it & on what grounds?

I'm told the loan is guaranteed, but given Omar Khan is the sole director & owner, has he guaranteed a loan for money he & his colleagues weren't willing to invest?

Where has all the money taken in season tickets, sponsorship & merchandise actually gone?

More importantly people should know that Barclays Bank registered a further mortgage charge for an undisclosed amount against Odsal in February this year. More borrowing on a shot to pieces business plan.

Barclays now has first call on the 30 year Odsal sublease, the Bradford Bulls brand, all assets and all future revenues.

ounces tax payers money should not be used to subsidise wealthy businessmen making a mess.

It's extremely concerning that given there are no grounds to make a loan to such a badly run & badly funded business, the council has gone ahead anyway.

Gerry Sutcliffe is Bradford South Labour MP & co chair at Bradford Bulls. Omar Khan is the sole director & owner of the club & a long standing friend & funder of Gerry Sutcliffe.

Bradford has a Labour Council. Join the dots & see why public money is being used to prop up a business where the big players don't want to put their own money in.

The Local Government Ombudsman needs to look at this loan, it's clearly not based on sound commercial facts & figures or properly secured.

David Green has some questions to answer.

one very accurate summary. The council have but a few days left to provide the information requested. If they fail to do so then the matter ill have to be referred to the Information Commissioner but then........ if it is all above board and kosher why not provide the information.

I find it odd that the officials who made this loan apparently did not seek formal council approval by having it debated in open council. If that is so why was that?

Maybe because it was a matter for the council financial department and not one for the council?

do you think the council debate everything that council departments do?

We need to employ a part time librarian, ok, lets raise it in the chambers next week? We need to fix a pothole on ingleby road, better raise that one in the chambers!

I think you're making it out to be something it isn't. Plus it's a LOAN which means it will be repaied with interest.

This loan was discussed between the council leader & head of finance only.

Clearly the clubs business plan is shot to pieces. The blame for this lies squarely with the club owner & his advisers. He should fund HIS business cash flow problems from his own pocket or source money privately.

Bradford Council has no solid commercial basis upon which to make this loan.

Whatever scrutiny was applied was totally flawed and calls into question the competence & integrity of those officials.

Bradford Council has no right to use public money to fund the stupidity of Labour MP's friends.

this is my point about this loan. Few people knew of this loan and to compare this is repairing a pot hole is ludicrous and shows an inability to see that there is a problem with due process within the Council.

WHOKNOWS HOW MANY OTHER LOANS WERE MADE WHERE DUE DILIGENCE FAILEWAS NOTAPPLIED

BierleyBoy wrote:

Bone_idle18 wrote:

BierleyBoy wrote:
oven the previous owners & directors of the club made such a mess, what on earth are this lot playing at?

just exactly what sort of business plan did they put together to say 6,500 season tickets at minimum £180 is disappointing? For a delay in shirts arriving, which is again down to the business plan & ongoing management to create such problems? Just what sort of funding does Omar khan actually have?

He bought the club for £150k up front with a further £75k due last December to P&A Partnership. There is an outstanding mortgage charge on Odsal in respect of this unpaid money.

OK Bulls approached Bradford council in December last year for a loan.

To be seeking bail out loans so soon is a sign of incredibly poor business forecasting & management.

I simply cannot understand why Omar Khan was unable to provide cash flow by other means. He is a man of means & is shown on Companies House as being director of 6 businesses. General Manager Ryan Whitcut is shown as being in 10 companies & Gerry Sutcliffe isn't short of money. Between them they weren't willing to raise the funds?

There are no sound commercial reasons why Bradford Council should have advanced a loan that is 25% higher than the lump sum paid to buy the club.

the business plan is clearly a joke & the loan is not secured against the clubs assets. This begs the question why not? Who approved it & on what grounds?

I'm told the loan is guaranteed, but given Omar Khan is the sole director & owner, has he guaranteed a loan for money he & his colleagues weren't willing to invest?

Where has all the money taken in season tickets, sponsorship & merchandise actually gone?

More importantly people should know that Barclays Bank registered a further mortgage charge for an undisclosed amount against Odsal in February this year. More borrowing on a shot to pieces business plan.

Barclays now has first call on the 30 year Odsal sublease, the Bradford Bulls brand, all assets and all future revenues.

ounces tax payers money should not be used to subsidise wealthy businessmen making a mess.

It's extremely concerning that given there are no grounds to make a loan to such a badly run & badly funded business, the council has gone ahead anyway.

Gerry Sutcliffe is Bradford South Labour MP & co chair at Bradford Bulls. Omar Khan is the sole director & owner of the club & a long standing friend & funder of Gerry Sutcliffe.

Bradford has a Labour Council. Join the dots & see why public money is being used to prop up a business where the big players don't want to put their own money in.

The Local Government Ombudsman needs to look at this loan, it's clearly not based on sound commercial facts & figures or properly secured.

David Green has some questions to answer.

Businesses take loans out all the time. It's not that easy to use money across businesses.

I don't understand why people think a £200k load at this stage of the rebuilding process is unusual.

It's not as if the costs of running a club weren't known is it?

The problem arose because of rank bad business planning & ridiculous forecasting.

It is for the owners to fund their business decisions, no one else.

Why hasn't this happened? Because it's easier to call in favours from Labour colleagues & get other people's money on the cheap with no security against the business assets?

Your ramblings are so flawed with assumptions and gross inaccuracies that any credible points you attempt to raise can be dismissed as utter garbage. Sad, bitter and totally misinformed.Doubt thats ever stopped you before from pontificating, or will today. #sadandboring

BCFC1234 wrote:

bantam59 wrote:

tyker2 wrote:

JAtkinson wrote:
Hopefully this will just be a rubber stamp and we can build for the future. Glad we now have businessmen in charge rather than interested amateurs.

or council officials eh?

why go on and on and on about council
they have never done anything for Bradford
YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN CHUCKED OUT OF THE LEAGUE
AFTER GOING BUST
whome is gunna save you next time you go bust
PERHAPS DYNIMO LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

What a sad and pathetic City fan you are.

not as sad as you you PLASTIC

Sheffieldbull wrote:

BierleyBoy wrote:

Bone_idle18 wrote:

BierleyBoy wrote:
oven the previous owners & directors of the club made such a mess, what on earth are this lot playing at?

just exactly what sort of business plan did they put together to say 6,500 season tickets at minimum £180 is disappointing? For a delay in shirts arriving, which is again down to the business plan & ongoing management to create such problems? Just what sort of funding does Omar khan actually have?

He bought the club for £150k up front with a further £75k due last December to P&A Partnership. There is an outstanding mortgage charge on Odsal in respect of this unpaid money.

OK Bulls approached Bradford council in December last year for a loan.

To be seeking bail out loans so soon is a sign of incredibly poor business forecasting & management.

I simply cannot understand why Omar Khan was unable to provide cash flow by other means. He is a man of means & is shown on Companies House as being director of 6 businesses. General Manager Ryan Whitcut is shown as being in 10 companies & Gerry Sutcliffe isn't short of money. Between them they weren't willing to raise the funds?

There are no sound commercial reasons why Bradford Council should have advanced a loan that is 25% higher than the lump sum paid to buy the club.

the business plan is clearly a joke & the loan is not secured against the clubs assets. This begs the question why not? Who approved it & on what grounds?

I'm told the loan is guaranteed, but given Omar Khan is the sole director & owner, has he guaranteed a loan for money he & his colleagues weren't willing to invest?

Where has all the money taken in season tickets, sponsorship & merchandise actually gone?

More importantly people should know that Barclays Bank registered a further mortgage charge for an undisclosed amount against Odsal in February this year. More borrowing on a shot to pieces business plan.

Barclays now has first call on the 30 year Odsal sublease, the Bradford Bulls brand, all assets and all future revenues.

ounces tax payers money should not be used to subsidise wealthy businessmen making a mess.

It's extremely concerning that given there are no grounds to make a loan to such a badly run & badly funded business, the council has gone ahead anyway.

Gerry Sutcliffe is Bradford South Labour MP & co chair at Bradford Bulls. Omar Khan is the sole director & owner of the club & a long standing friend & funder of Gerry Sutcliffe.

Bradford has a Labour Council. Join the dots & see why public money is being used to prop up a business where the big players don't want to put their own money in.

The Local Government Ombudsman needs to look at this loan, it's clearly not based on sound commercial facts & figures or properly secured.

David Green has some questions to answer.

Businesses take loans out all the time. It's not that easy to use money across businesses.

I don't understand why people think a £200k load at this stage of the rebuilding process is unusual.

It's not as if the costs of running a club weren't known is it?

The problem arose because of rank bad business planning & ridiculous forecasting.

It is for the owners to fund their business decisions, no one else.

Why hasn't this happened? Because it's easier to call in favours from Labour colleagues & get other people's money on the cheap with no security against the business assets?

Your ramblings are so flawed with assumptions and gross inaccuracies that any credible points you attempt to raise can be dismissed as utter garbage. Sad, bitter and totally misinformed.Doubt thats ever stopped you before from pontificating, or will today. #sadandboring

Agreed, BierlryBoy's obviously never had any high up position in business, as loans to help cash flow is very common.

I bet 70% of business in the UK rely on loans, all you need to do it look at the uproar over the fact the banks won't lend to businesses.

even the most successful business will owe money and have loans, but don't let the facts get in the way of good old moan!

Maybe BB should keep quiet before he looks more of a fool?

oh look, another council offering business loans,

http://www.financebi
rmingham.com/solihul
l-business-loan-fund


between 100,000 and 200,000! sound familiar? and I bet they don't go to the council chambers to discuss it either!

Bone_idle18 wrote:

Sheffieldbull wrote:

BierleyBoy wrote:

Bone_idle18 wrote:

BierleyBoy wrote:
oven the previous owners & directors of the club made such a mess, what on earth are this lot playing at?

just exactly what sort of business plan did they put together to say 6,500 season tickets at minimum £180 is disappointing? For a delay in shirts arriving, which is again down to the business plan & ongoing management to create such problems? Just what sort of funding does Omar khan actually have?

He bought the club for £150k up front with a further £75k due last December to P&A Partnership. There is an outstanding mortgage charge on Odsal in respect of this unpaid money.

OK Bulls approached Bradford council in December last year for a loan.

To be seeking bail out loans so soon is a sign of incredibly poor business forecasting & management.

I simply cannot understand why Omar Khan was unable to provide cash flow by other means. He is a man of means & is shown on Companies House as being director of 6 businesses. General Manager Ryan Whitcut is shown as being in 10 companies & Gerry Sutcliffe isn't short of money. Between them they weren't willing to raise the funds?

There are no sound commercial reasons why Bradford Council should have advanced a loan that is 25% higher than the lump sum paid to buy the club.

the business plan is clearly a joke & the loan is not secured against the clubs assets. This begs the question why not? Who approved it & on what grounds?

I'm told the loan is guaranteed, but given Omar Khan is the sole director & owner, has he guaranteed a loan for money he & his colleagues weren't willing to invest?

Where has all the money taken in season tickets, sponsorship & merchandise actually gone?

More importantly people should know that Barclays Bank registered a further mortgage charge for an undisclosed amount against Odsal in February this year. More borrowing on a shot to pieces business plan.

Barclays now has first call on the 30 year Odsal sublease, the Bradford Bulls brand, all assets and all future revenues.

ounces tax payers money should not be used to subsidise wealthy businessmen making a mess.

It's extremely concerning that given there are no grounds to make a loan to such a badly run & badly funded business, the council has gone ahead anyway.

Gerry Sutcliffe is Bradford South Labour MP & co chair at Bradford Bulls. Omar Khan is the sole director & owner of the club & a long standing friend & funder of Gerry Sutcliffe.

Bradford has a Labour Council. Join the dots & see why public money is being used to prop up a business where the big players don't want to put their own money in.

The Local Government Ombudsman needs to look at this loan, it's clearly not based on sound commercial facts & figures or properly secured.

David Green has some questions to answer.

Businesses take loans out all the time. It's not that easy to use money across businesses.

I don't understand why people think a £200k load at this stage of the rebuilding process is unusual.

It's not as if the costs of running a club weren't known is it?

The problem arose because of rank bad business planning & ridiculous forecasting.

It is for the owners to fund their business decisions, no one else.

Why hasn't this happened? Because it's easier to call in favours from Labour colleagues & get other people's money on the cheap with no security against the business assets?

Your ramblings are so flawed with assumptions and gross inaccuracies that any credible points you attempt to raise can be dismissed as utter garbage. Sad, bitter and totally misinformed.Doubt thats ever stopped you before from pontificating, or will today. #sadandboring

Agreed, BierlryBoy's obviously never had any high up position in business, as loans to help cash flow is very common.

I bet 70% of business in the UK rely on loans, all you need to do it look at the uproar over the fact the banks won't lend to businesses.

even the most successful business will owe money and have loans, but don't let the facts get in the way of good old moan!

Maybe BB should keep quiet before he looks more of a fool?

but not many get council loans do they. if THE LOAN IS KOSHER LET THEM RELEASE THE DETAILS FOR ALL TO SEE

tyker2 wrote:

Bone_idle18 wrote:

Sheffieldbull wrote:

BierleyBoy wrote:

Bone_idle18 wrote:

BierleyBoy wrote: oven the previous owners & directors of the club made such a mess, what on earth are this lot playing at? just exactly what sort of business plan did they put together to say 6,500 season tickets at minimum £180 is disappointing? For a delay in shirts arriving, which is again down to the business plan & ongoing management to create such problems? Just what sort of funding does Omar khan actually have? He bought the club for £150k up front with a further £75k due last December to P&A Partnership. There is an outstanding mortgage charge on Odsal in respect of this unpaid money. OK Bulls approached Bradford council in December last year for a loan. To be seeking bail out loans so soon is a sign of incredibly poor business forecasting & management. I simply cannot understand why Omar Khan was unable to provide cash flow by other means. He is a man of means & is shown on Companies House as being director of 6 businesses. General Manager Ryan Whitcut is shown as being in 10 companies & Gerry Sutcliffe isn't short of money. Between them they weren't willing to raise the funds? There are no sound commercial reasons why Bradford Council should have advanced a loan that is 25% higher than the lump sum paid to buy the club. the business plan is clearly a joke & the loan is not secured against the clubs assets. This begs the question why not? Who approved it & on what grounds? I'm told the loan is guaranteed, but given Omar Khan is the sole director & owner, has he guaranteed a loan for money he & his colleagues weren't willing to invest? Where has all the money taken in season tickets, sponsorship & merchandise actually gone? More importantly people should know that Barclays Bank registered a further mortgage charge for an undisclosed amount against Odsal in February this year. More borrowing on a shot to pieces business plan. Barclays now has first call on the 30 year Odsal sublease, the Bradford Bulls brand, all assets and all future revenues. ounces tax payers money should not be used to subsidise wealthy businessmen making a mess. It's extremely concerning that given there are no grounds to make a loan to such a badly run & badly funded business, the council has gone ahead anyway. Gerry Sutcliffe is Bradford South Labour MP & co chair at Bradford Bulls. Omar Khan is the sole director & owner of the club & a long standing friend & funder of Gerry Sutcliffe. Bradford has a Labour Council. Join the dots & see why public money is being used to prop up a business where the big players don't want to put their own money in. The Local Government Ombudsman needs to look at this loan, it's clearly not based on sound commercial facts & figures or properly secured. David Green has some questions to answer.

Businesses take loans out all the time. It's not that easy to use money across businesses. I don't understand why people think a £200k load at this stage of the rebuilding process is unusual.

It's not as if the costs of running a club weren't known is it? The problem arose because of rank bad business planning & ridiculous forecasting. It is for the owners to fund their business decisions, no one else. Why hasn't this happened? Because it's easier to call in favours from Labour colleagues & get other people's money on the cheap with no security against the business assets?

Your ramblings are so flawed with assumptions and gross inaccuracies that any credible points you attempt to raise can be dismissed as utter garbage. Sad, bitter and totally misinformed.Doubt thats ever stopped you before from pontificating, or will today. #sadandboring

Agreed, BierlryBoy's obviously never had any high up position in business, as loans to help cash flow is very common. I bet 70% of business in the UK rely on loans, all you need to do it look at the uproar over the fact the banks won't lend to businesses. even the most successful business will owe money and have loans, but don't let the facts get in the way of good old moan! Maybe BB should keep quiet before he looks more of a fool?

but not many get council loans do they. if THE LOAN IS KOSHER LET THEM RELEASE THE DETAILS FOR ALL TO SEE

A serious question, what details exactly are you expecting to recieve?

Hey tyker,bantam and bierley boy in case it may have passed you by the bulls are playing the dragons in Perpignan on Saturday,care to comment on our chances or debate team selection.no you would rather comment on a subject that wasn't mentioned in the story above,so please do us all a favour and take your pathetic rankings back to the forum that spawned you.

Damned iPad should be ranting lol

Totally baffled by the few posting on here regarding the loan received by the Bulls......whats the problem ? its not the first and it certainly wont be the last granted by any past present or future council to Bradford businesses the posts just show some peoples ignorance.......it was a loan not a handout.......D'oh !

col 64 wrote:
Hey tyker,bantam and bierley boy in case it may have passed you by the bulls are playing the dragons in Perpignan on Saturday,care to comment on our chances or debate team selection.no you would rather comment on a subject that wasn't mentioned in the story above,so please do us all a favour and take your pathetic rankings back to the forum that spawned you.

Spot on mate

Ignore the fools, they are nothing but low life Trolls. Who have very little in their miserable lives. No knowledge of the loan system that ALL councils operate, or the meaning of the word LOAN. You three brainless fools, do not realise that theses loans actually make money for the citizens of Bradford. Barely a Boy, would you like to inform the GENUINE Bulls fans where you got this scurrilous information. But, I don't think you can. Just a figment of your twisted, vitriolic mind.

To all three I say get a life and stop annoying those of us who have one.

To the t n a, I say, three more for your waste bin.

bantam59 wrote:

t'old man wrote:
Totally baffled by the few posting on here regarding the loan received by the Bulls......whats the problem ? its not the first and it certainly wont be the last granted by any past present or future council to Bradford businesses the posts just show some peoples ignorance.......it was a loan not a handout.......D'oh !

a loan Bradford bull sihet cant afford you idiot

I'd be very careful about of calling anyone a idiot sunshine..

"a loan Bradford bull sihet cant afford you idiot”

You just proved that you are! ('Wot', no capital letters d'oh!)...you'd be out of your depth in a puddle..

Most of the comments on here are party political,as soon as Sutcliffes name is mentioned the political worms crawl out of the woodwork,its like watching question time on BBC,a load of drivel all politically motivated by slobering mouths,as the shop sign in Dewsbury used to say "DON'T TALK TRIPE EAT IT"

spoke too soon,i see the idiots are back.dont they have another site were they can write there dribble.never seen the link between our sport and ballet.on the subject of the loan which the bulls will be paying interest on which will go back into the council coffers whats it got to do with you.are you going to be a gurantor or what.just keep your neb out and stick to your own sport.back on the proper subject looking forwaed to the game on saturday good to see another couple of players back COYB

BierleyBoy wrote:
oven the previous owners & directors of the club made such a mess, what on earth are this lot playing at? just exactly what sort of business plan did they put together to say 6,500 season tickets at minimum £180 is disappointing? For a delay in shirts arriving, which is again down to the business plan & ongoing management to create such problems? Just what sort of funding does Omar khan actually have? He bought the club for £150k up front with a further £75k due last December to P&A Partnership. There is an outstanding mortgage charge on Odsal in respect of this unpaid money. OK Bulls approached Bradford council in December last year for a loan. To be seeking bail out loans so soon is a sign of incredibly poor business forecasting & management. I simply cannot understand why Omar Khan was unable to provide cash flow by other means. He is a man of means & is shown on Companies House as being director of 6 businesses. General Manager Ryan Whitcut is shown as being in 10 companies & Gerry Sutcliffe isn't short of money. Between them they weren't willing to raise the funds? There are no sound commercial reasons why Bradford Council should have advanced a loan that is 25% higher than the lump sum paid to buy the club. the business plan is clearly a joke & the loan is not secured against the clubs assets. This begs the question why not? Who approved it & on what grounds? I'm told the loan is guaranteed, but given Omar Khan is the sole director & owner, has he guaranteed a loan for money he & his colleagues weren't willing to invest? Where has all the money taken in season tickets, sponsorship & merchandise actually gone? More importantly people should know that Barclays Bank registered a further mortgage charge for an undisclosed amount against Odsal in February this year. More borrowing on a shot to pieces business plan. Barclays now has first call on the 30 year Odsal sublease, the Bradford Bulls brand, all assets and all future revenues. ounces tax payers money should not be used to subsidise wealthy businessmen making a mess. It's extremely concerning that given there are no grounds to make a loan to such a badly run & badly funded business, the council has gone ahead anyway. Gerry Sutcliffe is Bradford South Labour MP & co chair at Bradford Bulls. Omar Khan is the sole director & owner of the club & a long standing friend & funder of Gerry Sutcliffe. Bradford has a Labour Council. Join the dots & see why public money is being used to prop up a business where the big players don't want to put their own money in. The Local Government Ombudsman needs to look at this loan, it's clearly not based on sound commercial facts & figures or properly secured. David Green has some questions to answer.

Did you play truant to do your incorrect research on this post,if you did you maybe better off staying in school in future, try drinking from a bigger glass you won't have to fill it quite as often.

Sheffieldbull wrote:

bantam59 wrote:

t'old man wrote:
Totally baffled by the few posting on here regarding the loan received by the Bulls......whats the problem ? its not the first and it certainly wont be the last granted by any past present or future council to Bradford businesses the posts just show some peoples ignorance.......it was a loan not a handout.......D'oh !

a loan Bradford bull sihet cant afford you idiot

I'd be very careful about of calling anyone a idiot sunshine..

"a loan Bradford bull sihet cant afford you idiot”

You just proved that you are! ('Wot', no capital letters d'oh!)...you'd be out of your depth in a puddle..

oh sorry a Sheffield idiot supporting Bradford bull sihet vats even worst
GET A GRIP BOY

bantam59 wrote:

Sheffieldbull wrote:

bantam59 wrote:

t'old man wrote: Totally baffled by the few posting on here regarding the loan received by the Bulls......whats the problem ? its not the first and it certainly wont be the last granted by any past present or future council to Bradford businesses the posts just show some peoples ignorance.......it was a loan not a handout.......D'oh !

a loan Bradford bull sihet cant afford you idiot

I'd be very careful about of calling anyone a idiot sunshine.. "a loan Bradford bull sihet cant afford you idiot” You just proved that you are! ('Wot', no capital letters d'oh!)...you'd be out of your depth in a puddle..

oh sorry a Sheffield idiot supporting Bradford bull sihet vats even worst GET A GRIP BOY

You were right Sheff,come on back Haitch,it's w**si

bantam59 wrote:

tyker2 wrote:

JAtkinson wrote:
Hopefully this will just be a rubber stamp and we can build for the future. Glad we now have businessmen in charge rather than interested amateurs.

or council officials eh?

why go on and on and on about council
they have never done anything for Bradford
YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN CHUCKED OUT OF THE LEAGUE
AFTER GOING BUST
whome is gunna save you next time you go bust
PERHAPS DYNIMO LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

Well City have been bust on more than one occasion haven't they? Probably you'd have been happy with them being kicked out of the league at the time. I personally was one of the supporters who donated big style to the original cash appeal, so don't be dismssive about what the true fans have done in saving the club.

the same total and utter rubbish that this tyker2 is spurting out .. a certain @carrothead is also throwing out on twitter! demanding answers from everybody from the chairman to the leader of the catholic church!

basically HE KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT BUSINESS.. he is also REALLY upset that Omar and Mr Sutcliffe have know each other for 20 years? ... er ehhhh??

he has basically accused the council and GS of corruption .. advised him to get hold of the police ... or GET A LIFE!!!

Please check him out if you want!

Sheffieldbull wrote:

BierleyBoy wrote:

Bone_idle18 wrote:

BierleyBoy wrote:
oven the previous owners & directors of the club made such a mess, what on earth are this lot playing at?

just exactly what sort of business plan did they put together to say 6,500 season tickets at minimum £180 is disappointing? For a delay in shirts arriving, which is again down to the business plan & ongoing management to create such problems? Just what sort of funding does Omar khan actually have?

He bought the club for £150k up front with a further £75k due last December to P&A Partnership. There is an outstanding mortgage charge on Odsal in respect of this unpaid money.

OK Bulls approached Bradford council in December last year for a loan.

To be seeking bail out loans so soon is a sign of incredibly poor business forecasting & management.

I simply cannot understand why Omar Khan was unable to provide cash flow by other means. He is a man of means & is shown on Companies House as being director of 6 businesses. General Manager Ryan Whitcut is shown as being in 10 companies & Gerry Sutcliffe isn't short of money. Between them they weren't willing to raise the funds?

There are no sound commercial reasons why Bradford Council should have advanced a loan that is 25% higher than the lump sum paid to buy the club.

the business plan is clearly a joke & the loan is not secured against the clubs assets. This begs the question why not? Who approved it & on what grounds?

I'm told the loan is guaranteed, but given Omar Khan is the sole director & owner, has he guaranteed a loan for money he & his colleagues weren't willing to invest?

Where has all the money taken in season tickets, sponsorship & merchandise actually gone?

More importantly people should know that Barclays Bank registered a further mortgage charge for an undisclosed amount against Odsal in February this year. More borrowing on a shot to pieces business plan.

Barclays now has first call on the 30 year Odsal sublease, the Bradford Bulls brand, all assets and all future revenues.

ounces tax payers money should not be used to subsidise wealthy businessmen making a mess.

It's extremely concerning that given there are no grounds to make a loan to such a badly run & badly funded business, the council has gone ahead anyway.

Gerry Sutcliffe is Bradford South Labour MP & co chair at Bradford Bulls. Omar Khan is the sole director & owner of the club & a long standing friend & funder of Gerry Sutcliffe.

Bradford has a Labour Council. Join the dots & see why public money is being used to prop up a business where the big players don't want to put their own money in.

The Local Government Ombudsman needs to look at this loan, it's clearly not based on sound commercial facts & figures or properly secured.

David Green has some questions to answer.

Businesses take loans out all the time. It's not that easy to use money across businesses.

I don't understand why people think a £200k load at this stage of the rebuilding process is unusual.

It's not as if the costs of running a club weren't known is it?

The problem arose because of rank bad business planning & ridiculous forecasting.

It is for the owners to fund their business decisions, no one else.

Why hasn't this happened? Because it's easier to call in favours from Labour colleagues & get other people's money on the cheap with no security against the business assets?

Your ramblings are so flawed with assumptions and gross inaccuracies that any credible points you attempt to raise can be dismissed as utter garbage. Sad, bitter and totally misinformed.Doubt thats ever stopped you before from pontificating, or will today. #sadandboring

Please feel free to point out any gross inaccuracies.

What assumptions have been made?

In what way am I misinformed, & by who?

Bone_idle18 wrote:

Sheffieldbull wrote:

BierleyBoy wrote:

Bone_idle18 wrote:

BierleyBoy wrote:
oven the previous owners & directors of the club made such a mess, what on earth are this lot playing at?

just exactly what sort of business plan did they put together to say 6,500 season tickets at minimum £180 is disappointing? For a delay in shirts arriving, which is again down to the business plan & ongoing management to create such problems? Just what sort of funding does Omar khan actually have?

He bought the club for £150k up front with a further £75k due last December to P&A Partnership. There is an outstanding mortgage charge on Odsal in respect of this unpaid money.

OK Bulls approached Bradford council in December last year for a loan.

To be seeking bail out loans so soon is a sign of incredibly poor business forecasting & management.

I simply cannot understand why Omar Khan was unable to provide cash flow by other means. He is a man of means & is shown on Companies House as being director of 6 businesses. General Manager Ryan Whitcut is shown as being in 10 companies & Gerry Sutcliffe isn't short of money. Between them they weren't willing to raise the funds?

There are no sound commercial reasons why Bradford Council should have advanced a loan that is 25% higher than the lump sum paid to buy the club.

the business plan is clearly a joke & the loan is not secured against the clubs assets. This begs the question why not? Who approved it & on what grounds?

I'm told the loan is guaranteed, but given Omar Khan is the sole director & owner, has he guaranteed a loan for money he & his colleagues weren't willing to invest?

Where has all the money taken in season tickets, sponsorship & merchandise actually gone?

More importantly people should know that Barclays Bank registered a further mortgage charge for an undisclosed amount against Odsal in February this year. More borrowing on a shot to pieces business plan.

Barclays now has first call on the 30 year Odsal sublease, the Bradford Bulls brand, all assets and all future revenues.

ounces tax payers money should not be used to subsidise wealthy businessmen making a mess.

It's extremely concerning that given there are no grounds to make a loan to such a badly run & badly funded business, the council has gone ahead anyway.

Gerry Sutcliffe is Bradford South Labour MP & co chair at Bradford Bulls. Omar Khan is the sole director & owner of the club & a long standing friend & funder of Gerry Sutcliffe.

Bradford has a Labour Council. Join the dots & see why public money is being used to prop up a business where the big players don't want to put their own money in.

The Local Government Ombudsman needs to look at this loan, it's clearly not based on sound commercial facts & figures or properly secured.

David Green has some questions to answer.

Businesses take loans out all the time. It's not that easy to use money across businesses.

I don't understand why people think a £200k load at this stage of the rebuilding process is unusual.

It's not as if the costs of running a club weren't known is it?

The problem arose because of rank bad business planning & ridiculous forecasting.

It is for the owners to fund their business decisions, no one else.

Why hasn't this happened? Because it's easier to call in favours from Labour colleagues & get other people's money on the cheap with no security against the business assets?

Your ramblings are so flawed with assumptions and gross inaccuracies that any credible points you attempt to raise can be dismissed as utter garbage. Sad, bitter and totally misinformed.Doubt thats ever stopped you before from pontificating, or will today. #sadandboring

Agreed, BierlryBoy's obviously never had any high up position in business, as loans to help cash flow is very common.

I bet 70% of business in the UK rely on loans, all you need to do it look at the uproar over the fact the banks won't lend to businesses.

even the most successful business will owe money and have loans, but don't let the facts get in the way of good old moan!

Maybe BB should keep quiet before he looks more of a fool?

You clearly have not read or been able to comprehend what I have said.

If banks won't lend, why does Barclays Bank have a charge over every single club asset, the Odsal lease, the Bulls brand & all future club income until it's loan is repaid?

I think it is you who is coming across as the fool.

There are no commercially justifiable grounds upon which Bradford Council should have made this loan. It is an abuse of position by Labour politicians to help a Labour MP's funder & friends deal with their business incompetence rather than pay for it themselves.

FUGGLES wrote:

BierleyBoy wrote:
oven the previous owners & directors of the club made such a mess, what on earth are this lot playing at? just exactly what sort of business plan did they put together to say 6,500 season tickets at minimum £180 is disappointing? For a delay in shirts arriving, which is again down to the business plan & ongoing management to create such problems? Just what sort of funding does Omar khan actually have? He bought the club for £150k up front with a further £75k due last December to P&A Partnership. There is an outstanding mortgage charge on Odsal in respect of this unpaid money. OK Bulls approached Bradford council in December last year for a loan. To be seeking bail out loans so soon is a sign of incredibly poor business forecasting & management. I simply cannot understand why Omar Khan was unable to provide cash flow by other means. He is a man of means & is shown on Companies House as being director of 6 businesses. General Manager Ryan Whitcut is shown as being in 10 companies & Gerry Sutcliffe isn't short of money. Between them they weren't willing to raise the funds? There are no sound commercial reasons why Bradford Council should have advanced a loan that is 25% higher than the lump sum paid to buy the club. the business plan is clearly a joke & the loan is not secured against the clubs assets. This begs the question why not? Who approved it & on what grounds? I'm told the loan is guaranteed, but given Omar Khan is the sole director & owner, has he guaranteed a loan for money he & his colleagues weren't willing to invest? Where has all the money taken in season tickets, sponsorship & merchandise actually gone? More importantly people should know that Barclays Bank registered a further mortgage charge for an undisclosed amount against Odsal in February this year. More borrowing on a shot to pieces business plan. Barclays now has first call on the 30 year Odsal sublease, the Bradford Bulls brand, all assets and all future revenues. ounces tax payers money should not be used to subsidise wealthy businessmen making a mess. It's extremely concerning that given there are no grounds to make a loan to such a badly run & badly funded business, the council has gone ahead anyway. Gerry Sutcliffe is Bradford South Labour MP & co chair at Bradford Bulls. Omar Khan is the sole director & owner of the club & a long standing friend & funder of Gerry Sutcliffe. Bradford has a Labour Council. Join the dots & see why public money is being used to prop up a business where the big players don't want to put their own money in. The Local Government Ombudsman needs to look at this loan, it's clearly not based on sound commercial facts & figures or properly secured. David Green has some questions to answer.

Did you play truant to do your incorrect research on this post,if you did you maybe better off staying in school in future, try drinking from a bigger glass you won't have to fill it quite as often.

What is incorrect? All facts are verifiable & in public domain.

Now then, Bierley Boy, still blowing your anti labour rantings, I see. Fail to see why the Bulls are getting the full, broadside, your somewhat off target, politics do not come into sport, only those who have a warped mind, bent on personnel vengeance, did the Bulls hurt you sometime in the past. Why would you have a go at a Journo, who you don't know, or OK, RW et al.

Your just one bitter individual, hell bent on playing the Troll. Hey ho, FAKE, rumbled again. Try harder next time, might win one.

bantam59 wrote:

Bone_idle18 wrote:
mean 2014 season

the city will never share that hole in the ground you call odsal
NEVER EVER EVER EVER

The facts are they did at one time, and our stadium was sectioned off to accommodate football fans, whilst Valley Parade was closed in the early 80s after the tragic fire.

So perhaps you should't worry too much about the very excellent satirical comment from the poster from Bone 18.

BierleyBoy wrote:

Sheffieldbull wrote:

BierleyBoy wrote:

Bone_idle18 wrote:

BierleyBoy wrote:
oven the previous owners & directors of the club made such a mess, what on earth are this lot playing at?

just exactly what sort of business plan did they put together to say 6,500 season tickets at minimum £180 is disappointing? For a delay in shirts arriving, which is again down to the business plan & ongoing management to create such problems? Just what sort of funding does Omar khan actually have?

He bought the club for £150k up front with a further £75k due last December to P&A Partnership. There is an outstanding mortgage charge on Odsal in respect of this unpaid money.

OK Bulls approached Bradford council in December last year for a loan.

To be seeking bail out loans so soon is a sign of incredibly poor business forecasting & management.

I simply cannot understand why Omar Khan was unable to provide cash flow by other means. He is a man of means & is shown on Companies House as being director of 6 businesses. General Manager Ryan Whitcut is shown as being in 10 companies & Gerry Sutcliffe isn't short of money. Between them they weren't willing to raise the funds?

There are no sound commercial reasons why Bradford Council should have advanced a loan that is 25% higher than the lump sum paid to buy the club.

the business plan is clearly a joke & the loan is not secured against the clubs assets. This begs the question why not? Who approved it & on what grounds?

I'm told the loan is guaranteed, but given Omar Khan is the sole director & owner, has he guaranteed a loan for money he & his colleagues weren't willing to invest?

Where has all the money taken in season tickets, sponsorship & merchandise actually gone?

More importantly people should know that Barclays Bank registered a further mortgage charge for an undisclosed amount against Odsal in February this year. More borrowing on a shot to pieces business plan.

Barclays now has first call on the 30 year Odsal sublease, the Bradford Bulls brand, all assets and all future revenues.

ounces tax payers money should not be used to subsidise wealthy businessmen making a mess.

It's extremely concerning that given there are no grounds to make a loan to such a badly run & badly funded business, the council has gone ahead anyway.

Gerry Sutcliffe is Bradford South Labour MP & co chair at Bradford Bulls. Omar Khan is the sole director & owner of the club & a long standing friend & funder of Gerry Sutcliffe.

Bradford has a Labour Council. Join the dots & see why public money is being used to prop up a business where the big players don't want to put their own money in.

The Local Government Ombudsman needs to look at this loan, it's clearly not based on sound commercial facts & figures or properly secured.

David Green has some questions to answer.

Businesses take loans out all the time. It's not that easy to use money across businesses.

I don't understand why people think a £200k load at this stage of the rebuilding process is unusual.

It's not as if the costs of running a club weren't known is it?

The problem arose because of rank bad business planning & ridiculous forecasting.

It is for the owners to fund their business decisions, no one else.

Why hasn't this happened? Because it's easier to call in favours from Labour colleagues & get other people's money on the cheap with no security against the business assets?

Your ramblings are so flawed with assumptions and gross inaccuracies that any credible points you attempt to raise can be dismissed as utter garbage. Sad, bitter and totally misinformed.Doubt thats ever stopped you before from pontificating, or will today. #sadandboring

Please feel free to point out any gross inaccuracies.

What assumptions have been made?

In what way am I misinformed, & by who?

I’ll be delighted to address the core of your ' 'gross inaccuracies' and assumptions'

"It's not as if the costs of running a club weren't known is it?"..... Incorrect! How could the cost of running the Club be known when 1) it was unknown what its status would be, Super league, Championship or Championship 1 and 2) Sky monies/ central funding sanctions unknown, I'd say, the costs could not possibly be known.
.
"The problem arose because of rank bad business planning & ridiculous forecasting.".... Rubbish lad! Firstly let me ask you how you've arrived at this outrageous assumption? What professional background do you have to be privy to the details of the 'Business Plan?'
.
"It is for the owners to fund their business decisions, no one else.".... This is without doubt the biggest load of tripe out of the whole rambling post and therefore condemns all the rest as garbage - read that comment again to yourself and give your daft head a shake.
.
This comes to you totally free, from me! Hope this helps.

i wonder if anyone can verify this but i remember when we were at valley parade i spoke to a local resident and there was speculation about the planning permission for the new stand behind the goals.apparentley when it was built it was higher than the agreed plans.so while your looking for the other paper work would you mind digging this out and checking the dimensions.or did the council cover this up as well.conspiracys everywhere.or like the old saying people in glass houses shouldnt throw stones.i eagerly await your reply on this one mr know it all COYB

Bierley boy still no comment from you on the boys chances in France tomorrow,bit you still seem hell bent on high jacking this rugby league forum to bad mouth the council an mp and anybody else you can think of concerning a loan which as I've said before does not feature in the above article.hidden agendas are terrible messy affairs be careful you don't get what you wish for.oh and at the risk of repeating myself please leave our forum and go back to your party politics .

Sheffieldbull wrote:

BierleyBoy wrote:

Sheffieldbull wrote:

BierleyBoy wrote:

Bone_idle18 wrote:

BierleyBoy wrote:
oven the previous owners & directors of the club made such a mess, what on earth are this lot playing at?

just exactly what sort of business plan did they put together to say 6,500 season tickets at minimum £180 is disappointing? For a delay in shirts arriving, which is again down to the business plan & ongoing management to create such problems? Just what sort of funding does Omar khan actually have?

He bought the club for £150k up front with a further £75k due last December to P&A Partnership. There is an outstanding mortgage charge on Odsal in respect of this unpaid money.

OK Bulls approached Bradford council in December last year for a loan.

To be seeking bail out loans so soon is a sign of incredibly poor business forecasting & management.

I simply cannot understand why Omar Khan was unable to provide cash flow by other means. He is a man of means & is shown on Companies House as being director of 6 businesses. General Manager Ryan Whitcut is shown as being in 10 companies & Gerry Sutcliffe isn't short of money. Between them they weren't willing to raise the funds?

There are no sound commercial reasons why Bradford Council should have advanced a loan that is 25% higher than the lump sum paid to buy the club.

the business plan is clearly a joke & the loan is not secured against the clubs assets. This begs the question why not? Who approved it & on what grounds?

I'm told the loan is guaranteed, but given Omar Khan is the sole director & owner, has he guaranteed a loan for money he & his colleagues weren't willing to invest?

Where has all the money taken in season tickets, sponsorship & merchandise actually gone?

More importantly people should know that Barclays Bank registered a further mortgage charge for an undisclosed amount against Odsal in February this year. More borrowing on a shot to pieces business plan.

Barclays now has first call on the 30 year Odsal sublease, the Bradford Bulls brand, all assets and all future revenues.

ounces tax payers money should not be used to subsidise wealthy businessmen making a mess.

It's extremely concerning that given there are no grounds to make a loan to such a badly run & badly funded business, the council has gone ahead anyway.

Gerry Sutcliffe is Bradford South Labour MP & co chair at Bradford Bulls. Omar Khan is the sole director & owner of the club & a long standing friend & funder of Gerry Sutcliffe.

Bradford has a Labour Council. Join the dots & see why public money is being used to prop up a business where the big players don't want to put their own money in.

The Local Government Ombudsman needs to look at this loan, it's clearly not based on sound commercial facts & figures or properly secured.

David Green has some questions to answer.

Businesses take loans out all the time. It's not that easy to use money across businesses.

I don't understand why people think a £200k load at this stage of the rebuilding process is unusual.

It's not as if the costs of running a club weren't known is it?

The problem arose because of rank bad business planning & ridiculous forecasting.

It is for the owners to fund their business decisions, no one else.

Why hasn't this happened? Because it's easier to call in favours from Labour colleagues & get other people's money on the cheap with no security against the business assets?

Your ramblings are so flawed with assumptions and gross inaccuracies that any credible points you attempt to raise can be dismissed as utter garbage. Sad, bitter and totally misinformed.Doubt thats ever stopped you before from pontificating, or will today. #sadandboring

Please feel free to point out any gross inaccuracies.

What assumptions have been made?

In what way am I misinformed, & by who?

I’ll be delighted to address the core of your ' 'gross inaccuracies' and assumptions'

"It's not as if the costs of running a club weren't known is it?"..... Incorrect! How could the cost of running the Club be known when 1) it was unknown what its status would be, Super league, Championship or Championship 1 and 2) Sky monies/ central funding sanctions unknown, I'd say, the costs could not possibly be known.
.
"The problem arose because of rank bad business planning & ridiculous forecasting.".... Rubbish lad! Firstly let me ask you how you've arrived at this outrageous assumption? What professional background do you have to be privy to the details of the 'Business Plan?'
.
"It is for the owners to fund their business decisions, no one else.".... This is without doubt the biggest load of tripe out of the whole rambling post and therefore condemns all the rest as garbage - read that comment again to yourself and give your daft head a shake.
.
This comes to you totally free, from me! Hope this helps.

Of course costs were known you blithering idiot.

OK Bulls was set up to continue with Bradford Bulls in Super League.

Sanctions were imposed for the 2012 season.

Cost of lease, players contracts, staff salaries etc were all included in business plan accepted by the RFL to take the club forward

In the above article Gerry Sutcliffe states disappointment at 6,500 ST's sold. To have forecasted selling the same number at almost double the price of the previous season is rank bad business planning.

To not have had funding contingencies in place to cover any exceptional issues is rank bad business planning.

If it's not the responsibility of business owner to fund their business, whose is it?

It's certainly not the responsibility of council tax payers. Ask yourself why Gerry Sutcliffe hasn't put a penny in.

col 64 wrote:
Bierley boy still no comment from you on the boys chances in France tomorrow,bit you still seem hell bent on high jacking this rugby league forum to bad mouth the council an mp and anybody else you can think of concerning a loan which as I've said before does not feature in the above article.hidden agendas are terrible messy affairs be careful you don't get what you wish for.oh and at the risk of repeating myself please leave our forum and go back to your party politics .

The article is not about the game on the weekend It is about the club and it's place in Super League, with Gerry Sutcliffe expressing disappointment at crowds & revenue.
Entirely relevant to discuss the financial position of the club and it's liabilities.

theviking62 wrote:
Ignore the fools, they are nothing but low life Trolls. Who have very little in their miserable lives. No knowledge of the loan system that ALL councils operate, or the meaning of the word LOAN. You three brainless fools, do not realise that theses loans actually make money for the citizens of Bradford. Barely a Boy, would you like to inform the GENUINE Bulls fans where you got this scurrilous information. But, I don't think you can. Just a figment of your twisted, vitriolic mind.

To all three I say get a life and stop annoying those of us who have one.

To the t n a, I say, three more for your waste bin.

What scurrilous information?

If the club is in financial trouble, the directors should put their own money in or get it from a bank.

Bradford Council should not be acting as a bank for it's Labour friends.

TBC/SLC52 wrote:
Now then, Bierley Boy, still blowing your anti labour rantings, I see. Fail to see why the Bulls are getting the full, broadside, your somewhat off target, politics do not come into sport, only those who have a warped mind, bent on personnel vengeance, did the Bulls hurt you sometime in the past. Why would you have a go at a Journo, who you don't know, or OK, RW et al.

Your just one bitter individual, hell bent on playing the Troll. Hey ho, FAKE, rumbled again. Try harder next time, might win one.

Have you been drinking?

Bradford Council should not be in the money lending business, full stop.

The question ought to be, why hasn't Omar Khan funded his business himself?

There is a clear conflict of interest in tis case & there are no sound commercial reasons for the council to be involved.

Which journo have I had a go at in anything I've said?

Take a close look at what councils can and cannot do. The RFL, put the restrictions in place for the 2013, not actually stating what those monetary restrictions would be. The business plan, of which neither you or I know anything about, was passed by the RFL, so must have met their requirements. Other wise OK would, not now own the club. As to conflict of interest, I don't understand, OK holds NO position on Bradford Council, so where's the problem there. The council FINANCE dept, obviously disagree with you, as they LOANED the money, which they wouldn't have done if the request didn't sound commercially viable. You are just provaracating, for something to do, as your misguided life leaves you lacking in doing anything useful.

Just another point, there is a chap on Twitter, who after reading his posts, I strongly believe is your good self. That person is strongly anti Labour, hence your dig at OK and GS. I await your answer, as I need something to cheer me up, I didn't get my Daily Worker this morning, you should read it they make a good case against the Three Stooges, that run the Coalition. I use the word " run " loosely.

BierleyBoy wrote:

Sheffieldbull wrote:

BierleyBoy wrote:

Sheffieldbull wrote:

BierleyBoy wrote:

Bone_idle18 wrote:

BierleyBoy wrote:
oven the previous owners & directors of the club made such a mess, what on earth are this lot playing at?

just exactly what sort of business plan did they put together to say 6,500 season tickets at minimum £180 is disappointing? For a delay in shirts arriving, which is again down to the business plan & ongoing management to create such problems? Just what sort of funding does Omar khan actually have?

He bought the club for £150k up front with a further £75k due last December to P&A Partnership. There is an outstanding mortgage charge on Odsal in respect of this unpaid money.

OK Bulls approached Bradford council in December last year for a loan.

To be seeking bail out loans so soon is a sign of incredibly poor business forecasting & management.

I simply cannot understand why Omar Khan was unable to provide cash flow by other means. He is a man of means & is shown on Companies House as being director of 6 businesses. General Manager Ryan Whitcut is shown as being in 10 companies & Gerry Sutcliffe isn't short of money. Between them they weren't willing to raise the funds?

There are no sound commercial reasons why Bradford Council should have advanced a loan that is 25% higher than the lump sum paid to buy the club.

the business plan is clearly a joke & the loan is not secured against the clubs assets. This begs the question why not? Who approved it & on what grounds?

I'm told the loan is guaranteed, but given Omar Khan is the sole director & owner, has he guaranteed a loan for money he & his colleagues weren't willing to invest?

Where has all the money taken in season tickets, sponsorship & merchandise actually gone?

More importantly people should know that Barclays Bank registered a further mortgage charge for an undisclosed amount against Odsal in February this year. More borrowing on a shot to pieces business plan.

Barclays now has first call on the 30 year Odsal sublease, the Bradford Bulls brand, all assets and all future revenues.

ounces tax payers money should not be used to subsidise wealthy businessmen making a mess.

It's extremely concerning that given there are no grounds to make a loan to such a badly run & badly funded business, the council has gone ahead anyway.

Gerry Sutcliffe is Bradford South Labour MP & co chair at Bradford Bulls. Omar Khan is the sole director & owner of the club & a long standing friend & funder of Gerry Sutcliffe.

Bradford has a Labour Council. Join the dots & see why public money is being used to prop up a business where the big players don't want to put their own money in.

The Local Government Ombudsman needs to look at this loan, it's clearly not based on sound commercial facts & figures or properly secured.

David Green has some questions to answer.

Businesses take loans out all the time. It's not that easy to use money across businesses.

I don't understand why people think a £200k load at this stage of the rebuilding process is unusual.

It's not as if the costs of running a club weren't known is it?

The problem arose because of rank bad business planning & ridiculous forecasting.

It is for the owners to fund their business decisions, no one else.

Why hasn't this happened? Because it's easier to call in favours from Labour colleagues & get other people's money on the cheap with no security against the business assets?

Your ramblings are so flawed with assumptions and gross inaccuracies that any credible points you attempt to raise can be dismissed as utter garbage. Sad, bitter and totally misinformed.Doubt thats ever stopped you before from pontificating, or will today. #sadandboring

Please feel free to point out any gross inaccuracies.

What assumptions have been made?

In what way am I misinformed, & by who?

I’ll be delighted to address the core of your ' 'gross inaccuracies' and assumptions'

"It's not as if the costs of running a club weren't known is it?"..... Incorrect! How could the cost of running the Club be known when 1) it was unknown what its status would be, Super league, Championship or Championship 1 and 2) Sky monies/ central funding sanctions unknown, I'd say, the costs could not possibly be known.
.
"The problem arose because of rank bad business planning & ridiculous forecasting.".... Rubbish lad! Firstly let me ask you how you've arrived at this outrageous assumption? What professional background do you have to be privy to the details of the 'Business Plan?'
.
"It is for the owners to fund their business decisions, no one else.".... This is without doubt the biggest load of tripe out of the whole rambling post and therefore condemns all the rest as garbage - read that comment again to yourself and give your daft head a shake.
.
This comes to you totally free, from me! Hope this helps.

Of course costs were known you blithering idiot.

OK Bulls was set up to continue with Bradford Bulls in Super League.

Sanctions were imposed for the 2012 season.

Cost of lease, players contracts, staff salaries etc were all included in business plan accepted by the RFL to take the club forward

In the above article Gerry Sutcliffe states disappointment at 6,500 ST's sold. To have forecasted selling the same number at almost double the price of the previous season is rank bad business planning.

To not have had funding contingencies in place to cover any exceptional issues is rank bad business planning.

If it's not the responsibility of business owner to fund their business, whose is it?

It's certainly not the responsibility of council tax payers. Ask yourself why Gerry Sutcliffe hasn't put a penny in.

You really are a daft lad are you not? You don't know what you are talking about - proved with every nonsensical post that you generate.
Do yourself a favour son, shut it!
Empty vessels eh?
.
(ps. funding was availble from the Council...... chuckles!)

BierleyBoy wrote:

col 64 wrote:
Bierley boy still no comment from you on the boys chances in France tomorrow,bit you still seem hell bent on high jacking this rugby league forum to bad mouth the council an mp and anybody else you can think of concerning a loan which as I've said before does not feature in the above article.hidden agendas are terrible messy affairs be careful you don't get what you wish for.oh and at the risk of repeating myself please leave our forum and go back to your party politics .

The article is not about the game on the weekend It is about the club and it's place in Super League, with Gerry Sutcliffe expressing disappointment at crowds & revenue.
Entirely relevant to discuss the financial position of the club and it's liabilities.

At time of posting,Bulls are 20-10 down..


Wishing the BULLS all the best and cheering them on to go that bit more and win it for the FANS..

COYB

bantam59 wrote:

BCFC1234 wrote:

bantam59 wrote:

tyker2 wrote:

JAtkinson wrote:
Hopefully this will just be a rubber stamp and we can build for the future. Glad we now have businessmen in charge rather than interested amateurs.

or council officials eh?

why go on and on and on about council
they have never done anything for Bradford
YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN CHUCKED OUT OF THE LEAGUE
AFTER GOING BUST
whome is gunna save you next time you go bust
PERHAPS DYNIMO LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

What a sad and pathetic City fan you are.

not as sad as you you PLASTIC

You are just plain rude and as such are worthy of nothing but contempt.

Your posts BORE me as you never add anything constructive to the pot.You simply add insulting drivel.

BierleyBoy wrote:

TBC/SLC52 wrote:
Now then, Bierley Boy, still blowing your anti labour rantings, I see. Fail to see why the Bulls are getting the full, broadside, your somewhat off target, politics do not come into sport, only those who have a warped mind, bent on personnel vengeance, did the Bulls hurt you sometime in the past. Why would you have a go at a Journo, who you don't know, or OK, RW et al.

Your just one bitter individual, hell bent on playing the Troll. Hey ho, FAKE, rumbled again. Try harder next time, might win one.

Have you been drinking?

Bradford Council should not be in the money lending business, full stop.

The question ought to be, why hasn't Omar Khan funded his business himself?

There is a clear conflict of interest in tis case & there are no sound commercial reasons for the council to be involved.

Which journo have I had a go at in anything I've said?

You are boring me now..Actually,you were boring and repetitive a long time ago.

You have evaded the question as to whether you are cheering on the BULLS vs Catalan Dragons or not.

You are trolling. and as such I will feed you no more.

theviking62 wrote:
Take a close look at what councils can and cannot do. The RFL, put the restrictions in place for the 2013, not actually stating what those monetary restrictions would be. The business plan, of which neither you or I know anything about, was passed by the RFL, so must have met their requirements. Other wise OK would, not now own the club. As to conflict of interest, I don't understand, OK holds NO position on Bradford Council, so where's the problem there. The council FINANCE dept, obviously disagree with you, as they LOANED the money, which they wouldn't have done if the request didn't sound commercially viable. You are just provaracating, for something to do, as your misguided life leaves you lacking in doing anything useful.

Just another point, there is a chap on Twitter, who after reading his posts, I strongly believe is your good self. That person is strongly anti Labour, hence your dig at OK and GS. I await your answer, as I need something to cheer me up, I didn't get my Daily Worker this morning, you should read it they make a good case against the Three Stooges, that run the Coalition. I use the word " run " loosely.

The terms, including Sky money, of the licence for 2013 were fully agreed prior to OK Bulls buying the assets & licence transfer of Bradford Bulls Holdings.

The business plan accepted by the RFL contained what exactly? Little more than projected figures based on guesswork. The delay in the takeover was purely down to P&A squeezing every hour of paid work possible out of the mess.

There is a clear conflict of interest. Gerry Sutcliffe is Labour MP for Bradford South, where the club is located. he is chair at the club. His long standing friend & campaign funder owns the club he chairs. Bradford has a Labour council.

The council finance department CAN make loans.

Why didn't the club owners finance their business themselves? Khan is very wealthy & has many business interests, so does Whitcut, Sutcliffe is very wealthy.

Provide one good reason why public money should be used to support such wealthy people.

The loan is just £25k less than the purchase price of the club, which still hasn't been paid in full & which is secured on the stadium.

The council loan isn't secured on the stadium. Why not? What is it secured against? The interest rate isn't known, the term isn't known.

In my opinion, this loan is based on political allegiances & not on sound commercial criteria.

You are free to believe what you like. I am on twitter too, amazing what you can find out on there!!

Sheffieldbull wrote:

BierleyBoy wrote:

Sheffieldbull wrote:

BierleyBoy wrote:

Sheffieldbull wrote:

BierleyBoy wrote:

Bone_idle18 wrote:

BierleyBoy wrote:
oven the previous owners & directors of the club made such a mess, what on earth are this lot playing at?

just exactly what sort of business plan did they put together to say 6,500 season tickets at minimum £180 is disappointing? For a delay in shirts arriving, which is again down to the business plan & ongoing management to create such problems? Just what sort of funding does Omar khan actually have?

He bought the club for £150k up front with a further £75k due last December to P&A Partnership. There is an outstanding mortgage charge on Odsal in respect of this unpaid money.

OK Bulls approached Bradford council in December last year for a loan.

To be seeking bail out loans so soon is a sign of incredibly poor business forecasting & management.

I simply cannot understand why Omar Khan was unable to provide cash flow by other means. He is a man of means & is shown on Companies House as being director of 6 businesses. General Manager Ryan Whitcut is shown as being in 10 companies & Gerry Sutcliffe isn't short of money. Between them they weren't willing to raise the funds?

There are no sound commercial reasons why Bradford Council should have advanced a loan that is 25% higher than the lump sum paid to buy the club.

the business plan is clearly a joke & the loan is not secured against the clubs assets. This begs the question why not? Who approved it & on what grounds?

I'm told the loan is guaranteed, but given Omar Khan is the sole director & owner, has he guaranteed a loan for money he & his colleagues weren't willing to invest?

Where has all the money taken in season tickets, sponsorship & merchandise actually gone?

More importantly people should know that Barclays Bank registered a further mortgage charge for an undisclosed amount against Odsal in February this year. More borrowing on a shot to pieces business plan.

Barclays now has first call on the 30 year Odsal sublease, the Bradford Bulls brand, all assets and all future revenues.

ounces tax payers money should not be used to subsidise wealthy businessmen making a mess.

It's extremely concerning that given there are no grounds to make a loan to such a badly run & badly funded business, the council has gone ahead anyway.

Gerry Sutcliffe is Bradford South Labour MP & co chair at Bradford Bulls. Omar Khan is the sole director & owner of the club & a long standing friend & funder of Gerry Sutcliffe.

Bradford has a Labour Council. Join the dots & see why public money is being used to prop up a business where the big players don't want to put their own money in.

The Local Government Ombudsman needs to look at this loan, it's clearly not based on sound commercial facts & figures or properly secured.

David Green has some questions to answer.

Businesses take loans out all the time. It's not that easy to use money across businesses.

I don't understand why people think a £200k load at this stage of the rebuilding process is unusual.

It's not as if the costs of running a club weren't known is it?

The problem arose because of rank bad business planning & ridiculous forecasting.

It is for the owners to fund their business decisions, no one else.

Why hasn't this happened? Because it's easier to call in favours from Labour colleagues & get other people's money on the cheap with no security against the business assets?

Your ramblings are so flawed with assumptions and gross inaccuracies that any credible points you attempt to raise can be dismissed as utter garbage. Sad, bitter and totally misinformed.Doubt thats ever stopped you before from pontificating, or will today. #sadandboring

Please feel free to point out any gross inaccuracies.

What assumptions have been made?

In what way am I misinformed, & by who?

I’ll be delighted to address the core of your ' 'gross inaccuracies' and assumptions'

"It's not as if the costs of running a club weren't known is it?"..... Incorrect! How could the cost of running the Club be known when 1) it was unknown what its status would be, Super league, Championship or Championship 1 and 2) Sky monies/ central funding sanctions unknown, I'd say, the costs could not possibly be known.
.
"The problem arose because of rank bad business planning & ridiculous forecasting.".... Rubbish lad! Firstly let me ask you how you've arrived at this outrageous assumption? What professional background do you have to be privy to the details of the 'Business Plan?'
.
"It is for the owners to fund their business decisions, no one else.".... This is without doubt the biggest load of tripe out of the whole rambling post and therefore condemns all the rest as garbage - read that comment again to yourself and give your daft head a shake.
.
This comes to you totally free, from me! Hope this helps.

Of course costs were known you blithering idiot.

OK Bulls was set up to continue with Bradford Bulls in Super League.

Sanctions were imposed for the 2012 season.

Cost of lease, players contracts, staff salaries etc were all included in business plan accepted by the RFL to take the club forward

In the above article Gerry Sutcliffe states disappointment at 6,500 ST's sold. To have forecasted selling the same number at almost double the price of the previous season is rank bad business planning.

To not have had funding contingencies in place to cover any exceptional issues is rank bad business planning.

If it's not the responsibility of business owner to fund their business, whose is it?

It's certainly not the responsibility of council tax payers. Ask yourself why Gerry Sutcliffe hasn't put a penny in.

You really are a daft lad are you not? You don't know what you are talking about - proved with every nonsensical post that you generate.
Do yourself a favour son, shut it!
Empty vessels eh?
.
(ps. funding was availble from the Council...... chuckles!)

Thanks for that insightful, eloquent contribution.

WayneRouke wrote:

BierleyBoy wrote:

TBC/SLC52 wrote:
Now then, Bierley Boy, still blowing your anti labour rantings, I see. Fail to see why the Bulls are getting the full, broadside, your somewhat off target, politics do not come into sport, only those who have a warped mind, bent on personnel vengeance, did the Bulls hurt you sometime in the past. Why would you have a go at a Journo, who you don't know, or OK, RW et al.

Your just one bitter individual, hell bent on playing the Troll. Hey ho, FAKE, rumbled again. Try harder next time, might win one.

Have you been drinking?

Bradford Council should not be in the money lending business, full stop.

The question ought to be, why hasn't Omar Khan funded his business himself?

There is a clear conflict of interest in tis case & there are no sound commercial reasons for the council to be involved.

Which journo have I had a go at in anything I've said?

You are boring me now..Actually,you were boring and repetitive a long time ago.

You have evaded the question as to whether you are cheering on the BULLS vs Catalan Dragons or not.

You are trolling. and as such I will feed you no more.

he article isn't about the game played yesterday, there are plenty of others that are.

I don't support any sports team in Bradford or anywhere else

I am against public money being used to pay for millionaires business incompetence.

tyker2 wrote:

BierleyBoy wrote:

Bone_idle18 wrote:

tyker2 wrote:

BierleyBoy wrote:
oven the previous owners & directors of the club made such a mess, what on earth are this lot playing at?

just exactly what sort of business plan did they put together to say 6,500 season tickets at minimum £180 is disappointing? For a delay in shirts arriving, which is again down to the business plan & ongoing management to create such problems? Just what sort of funding does Omar khan actually have?

He bought the club for £150k up front with a further £75k due last December to P&A Partnership. There is an outstanding mortgage charge on Odsal in respect of this unpaid money.

OK Bulls approached Bradford council in December last year for a loan.

To be seeking bail out loans so soon is a sign of incredibly poor business forecasting & management.

I simply cannot understand why Omar Khan was unable to provide cash flow by other means. He is a man of means & is shown on Companies House as being director of 6 businesses. General Manager Ryan Whitcut is shown as being in 10 companies & Gerry Sutcliffe isn't short of money. Between them they weren't willing to raise the funds?

There are no sound commercial reasons why Bradford Council should have advanced a loan that is 25% higher than the lump sum paid to buy the club.

the business plan is clearly a joke & the loan is not secured against the clubs assets. This begs the question why not? Who approved it & on what grounds?

I'm told the loan is guaranteed, but given Omar Khan is the sole director & owner, has he guaranteed a loan for money he & his colleagues weren't willing to invest?

Where has all the money taken in season tickets, sponsorship & merchandise actually gone?

More importantly people should know that Barclays Bank registered a further mortgage charge for an undisclosed amount against Odsal in February this year. More borrowing on a shot to pieces business plan.

Barclays now has first call on the 30 year Odsal sublease, the Bradford Bulls brand, all assets and all future revenues.

ounces tax payers money should not be used to subsidise wealthy businessmen making a mess.

It's extremely concerning that given there are no grounds to make a loan to such a badly run & badly funded business, the council has gone ahead anyway.

Gerry Sutcliffe is Bradford South Labour MP & co chair at Bradford Bulls. Omar Khan is the sole director & owner of the club & a long standing friend & funder of Gerry Sutcliffe.

Bradford has a Labour Council. Join the dots & see why public money is being used to prop up a business where the big players don't want to put their own money in.

The Local Government Ombudsman needs to look at this loan, it's clearly not based on sound commercial facts & figures or properly secured.

David Green has some questions to answer.

one very accurate summary. The council have but a few days left to provide the information requested. If they fail to do so then the matter ill have to be referred to the Information Commissioner but then........ if it is all above board and kosher why not provide the information.

I find it odd that the officials who made this loan apparently did not seek formal council approval by having it debated in open council. If that is so why was that?

Maybe because it was a matter for the council financial department and not one for the council?

do you think the council debate everything that council departments do?

We need to employ a part time librarian, ok, lets raise it in the chambers next week? We need to fix a pothole on ingleby road, better raise that one in the chambers!

I think you're making it out to be something it isn't. Plus it's a LOAN which means it will be repaied with interest.

This loan was discussed between the council leader & head of finance only.

Clearly the clubs business plan is shot to pieces. The blame for this lies squarely with the club owner & his advisers. He should fund HIS business cash flow problems from his own pocket or source money privately.

Bradford Council has no solid commercial basis upon which to make this loan.

Whatever scrutiny was applied was totally flawed and calls into question the competence & integrity of those officials.

Bradford Council has no right to use public money to fund the stupidity of Labour MP's friends.

this is my point about this loan. Few people knew of this loan and to compare this is repairing a pot hole is ludicrous and shows an inability to see that there is a problem with due process within the Council.

WHOKNOWS HOW MANY OTHER LOANS WERE MADE WHERE DUE DILIGENCE FAILEWAS NOTAPPLIED

Excuse me this loan was in the public domain. It was published in the T & A that Gerry Sutcliffe had asked the Council for support in this project.

The Tories amd Lib Dems are just playing games as usual trying to make a non story run.

Bradford Council made a loan of several millions to the developer of the Provident Finance HQ, your not asking about that... millions of pounds there... no lets discuss 200,000 pounds instead.

Reality001 wrote:

tyker2 wrote:

BierleyBoy wrote:

Bone_idle18 wrote:

tyker2 wrote:

BierleyBoy wrote:
oven the previous owners & directors of the club made such a mess, what on earth are this lot playing at?

just exactly what sort of business plan did they put together to say 6,500 season tickets at minimum £180 is disappointing? For a delay in shirts arriving, which is again down to the business plan & ongoing management to create such problems? Just what sort of funding does Omar khan actually have?

He bought the club for £150k up front with a further £75k due last December to P&A Partnership. There is an outstanding mortgage charge on Odsal in respect of this unpaid money.

OK Bulls approached Bradford council in December last year for a loan.

To be seeking bail out loans so soon is a sign of incredibly poor business forecasting & management.

I simply cannot understand why Omar Khan was unable to provide cash flow by other means. He is a man of means & is shown on Companies House as being director of 6 businesses. General Manager Ryan Whitcut is shown as being in 10 companies & Gerry Sutcliffe isn't short of money. Between them they weren't willing to raise the funds?

There are no sound commercial reasons why Bradford Council should have advanced a loan that is 25% higher than the lump sum paid to buy the club.

the business plan is clearly a joke & the loan is not secured against the clubs assets. This begs the question why not? Who approved it & on what grounds?

I'm told the loan is guaranteed, but given Omar Khan is the sole director & owner, has he guaranteed a loan for money he & his colleagues weren't willing to invest?

Where has all the money taken in season tickets, sponsorship & merchandise actually gone?

More importantly people should know that Barclays Bank registered a further mortgage charge for an undisclosed amount against Odsal in February this year. More borrowing on a shot to pieces business plan.

Barclays now has first call on the 30 year Odsal sublease, the Bradford Bulls brand, all assets and all future revenues.

ounces tax payers money should not be used to subsidise wealthy businessmen making a mess.

It's extremely concerning that given there are no grounds to make a loan to such a badly run & badly funded business, the council has gone ahead anyway.

Gerry Sutcliffe is Bradford South Labour MP & co chair at Bradford Bulls. Omar Khan is the sole director & owner of the club & a long standing friend & funder of Gerry Sutcliffe.

Bradford has a Labour Council. Join the dots & see why public money is being used to prop up a business where the big players don't want to put their own money in.

The Local Government Ombudsman needs to look at this loan, it's clearly not based on sound commercial facts & figures or properly secured.

David Green has some questions to answer.

one very accurate summary. The council have but a few days left to provide the information requested. If they fail to do so then the matter ill have to be referred to the Information Commissioner but then........ if it is all above board and kosher why not provide the information.

I find it odd that the officials who made this loan apparently did not seek formal council approval by having it debated in open council. If that is so why was that?

Maybe because it was a matter for the council financial department and not one for the council?

do you think the council debate everything that council departments do?

We need to employ a part time librarian, ok, lets raise it in the chambers next week? We need to fix a pothole on ingleby road, better raise that one in the chambers!

I think you're making it out to be something it isn't. Plus it's a LOAN which means it will be repaied with interest.

This loan was discussed between the council leader & head of finance only.

Clearly the clubs business plan is shot to pieces. The blame for this lies squarely with the club owner & his advisers. He should fund HIS business cash flow problems from his own pocket or source money privately.

Bradford Council has no solid commercial basis upon which to make this loan.

Whatever scrutiny was applied was totally flawed and calls into question the competence & integrity of those officials.

Bradford Council has no right to use public money to fund the stupidity of Labour MP's friends.

this is my point about this loan. Few people knew of this loan and to compare this is repairing a pot hole is ludicrous and shows an inability to see that there is a problem with due process within the Council.

WHOKNOWS HOW MANY OTHER LOANS WERE MADE WHERE DUE DILIGENCE FAILEWAS NOTAPPLIED

Excuse me this loan was in the public domain. It was published in the T & A that Gerry Sutcliffe had asked the Council for support in this project.

The Tories amd Lib Dems are just playing games as usual trying to make a non story run.

Bradford Council made a loan of several millions to the developer of the Provident Finance HQ, your not asking about that... millions of pounds there... no lets discuss 200,000 pounds instead.

I think Bierley Boys definition of "Due Diligence" is "They didnt ask me first"..

Everything else is conjecture and hogwash with the intent of hijacking a thread about the RFL making a ruling about Bradford Bulls SuperLeague status.

COYB

Reality001 wrote:

tyker2 wrote:

BierleyBoy wrote:

Bone_idle18 wrote:

tyker2 wrote:

BierleyBoy wrote:
oven the previous owners & directors of the club made such a mess, what on earth are this lot playing at?

just exactly what sort of business plan did they put together to say 6,500 season tickets at minimum £180 is disappointing? For a delay in shirts arriving, which is again down to the business plan & ongoing management to create such problems? Just what sort of funding does Omar khan actually have?

He bought the club for £150k up front with a further £75k due last December to P&A Partnership. There is an outstanding mortgage charge on Odsal in respect of this unpaid money.

OK Bulls approached Bradford council in December last year for a loan.

To be seeking bail out loans so soon is a sign of incredibly poor business forecasting & management.

I simply cannot understand why Omar Khan was unable to provide cash flow by other means. He is a man of means & is shown on Companies House as being director of 6 businesses. General Manager Ryan Whitcut is shown as being in 10 companies & Gerry Sutcliffe isn't short of money. Between them they weren't willing to raise the funds?

There are no sound commercial reasons why Bradford Council should have advanced a loan that is 25% higher than the lump sum paid to buy the club.

the business plan is clearly a joke & the loan is not secured against the clubs assets. This begs the question why not? Who approved it & on what grounds?

I'm told the loan is guaranteed, but given Omar Khan is the sole director & owner, has he guaranteed a loan for money he & his colleagues weren't willing to invest?

Where has all the money taken in season tickets, sponsorship & merchandise actually gone?

More importantly people should know that Barclays Bank registered a further mortgage charge for an undisclosed amount against Odsal in February this year. More borrowing on a shot to pieces business plan.

Barclays now has first call on the 30 year Odsal sublease, the Bradford Bulls brand, all assets and all future revenues.

ounces tax payers money should not be used to subsidise wealthy businessmen making a mess.

It's extremely concerning that given there are no grounds to make a loan to such a badly run & badly funded business, the council has gone ahead anyway.

Gerry Sutcliffe is Bradford South Labour MP & co chair at Bradford Bulls. Omar Khan is the sole director & owner of the club & a long standing friend & funder of Gerry Sutcliffe.

Bradford has a Labour Council. Join the dots & see why public money is being used to prop up a business where the big players don't want to put their own money in.

The Local Government Ombudsman needs to look at this loan, it's clearly not based on sound commercial facts & figures or properly secured.

David Green has some questions to answer.

one very accurate summary. The council have but a few days left to provide the information requested. If they fail to do so then the matter ill have to be referred to the Information Commissioner but then........ if it is all above board and kosher why not provide the information.

I find it odd that the officials who made this loan apparently did not seek formal council approval by having it debated in open council. If that is so why was that?

Maybe because it was a matter for the council financial department and not one for the council?

do you think the council debate everything that council departments do?

We need to employ a part time librarian, ok, lets raise it in the chambers next week? We need to fix a pothole on ingleby road, better raise that one in the chambers!

I think you're making it out to be something it isn't. Plus it's a LOAN which means it will be repaied with interest.

This loan was discussed between the council leader & head of finance only.

Clearly the clubs business plan is shot to pieces. The blame for this lies squarely with the club owner & his advisers. He should fund HIS business cash flow problems from his own pocket or source money privately.

Bradford Council has no solid commercial basis upon which to make this loan.

Whatever scrutiny was applied was totally flawed and calls into question the competence & integrity of those officials.

Bradford Council has no right to use public money to fund the stupidity of Labour MP's friends.

this is my point about this loan. Few people knew of this loan and to compare this is repairing a pot hole is ludicrous and shows an inability to see that there is a problem with due process within the Council.

WHOKNOWS HOW MANY OTHER LOANS WERE MADE WHERE DUE DILIGENCE FAILEWAS NOTAPPLIED

Excuse me this loan was in the public domain. It was published in the T & A that Gerry Sutcliffe had asked the Council for support in this project.

The Tories amd Lib Dems are just playing games as usual trying to make a non story run.

Bradford Council made a loan of several millions to the developer of the Provident Finance HQ, your not asking about that... millions of pounds there... no lets discuss 200,000 pounds instead.

I hear nothing about this loan until I read the piece about the Lib Dem councillor complaining.

The £6m loan to the developer of Jury's Inn was wrong. It seems the common denominator for both is David Green.

I have no involvement with any poltical party. I pay council tax in Bradford & have every right to complain about such activity.

WayneRouke wrote:

Reality001 wrote:

tyker2 wrote:

BierleyBoy wrote:

Bone_idle18 wrote:

tyker2 wrote:

BierleyBoy wrote:
oven the previous owners & directors of the club made such a mess, what on earth are this lot playing at?

just exactly what sort of business plan did they put together to say 6,500 season tickets at minimum £180 is disappointing? For a delay in shirts arriving, which is again down to the business plan & ongoing management to create such problems? Just what sort of funding does Omar khan actually have?

He bought the club for £150k up front with a further £75k due last December to P&A Partnership. There is an outstanding mortgage charge on Odsal in respect of this unpaid money.

OK Bulls approached Bradford council in December last year for a loan.

To be seeking bail out loans so soon is a sign of incredibly poor business forecasting & management.

I simply cannot understand why Omar Khan was unable to provide cash flow by other means. He is a man of means & is shown on Companies House as being director of 6 businesses. General Manager Ryan Whitcut is shown as being in 10 companies & Gerry Sutcliffe isn't short of money. Between them they weren't willing to raise the funds?

There are no sound commercial reasons why Bradford Council should have advanced a loan that is 25% higher than the lump sum paid to buy the club.

the business plan is clearly a joke & the loan is not secured against the clubs assets. This begs the question why not? Who approved it & on what grounds?

I'm told the loan is guaranteed, but given Omar Khan is the sole director & owner, has he guaranteed a loan for money he & his colleagues weren't willing to invest?

Where has all the money taken in season tickets, sponsorship & merchandise actually gone?

More importantly people should know that Barclays Bank registered a further mortgage charge for an undisclosed amount against Odsal in February this year. More borrowing on a shot to pieces business plan.

Barclays now has first call on the 30 year Odsal sublease, the Bradford Bulls brand, all assets and all future revenues.

ounces tax payers money should not be used to subsidise wealthy businessmen making a mess.

It's extremely concerning that given there are no grounds to make a loan to such a badly run & badly funded business, the council has gone ahead anyway.

Gerry Sutcliffe is Bradford South Labour MP & co chair at Bradford Bulls. Omar Khan is the sole director & owner of the club & a long standing friend & funder of Gerry Sutcliffe.

Bradford has a Labour Council. Join the dots & see why public money is being used to prop up a business where the big players don't want to put their own money in.

The Local Government Ombudsman needs to look at this loan, it's clearly not based on sound commercial facts & figures or properly secured.

David Green has some questions to answer.

one very accurate summary. The council have but a few days left to provide the information requested. If they fail to do so then the matter ill have to be referred to the Information Commissioner but then........ if it is all above board and kosher why not provide the information.

I find it odd that the officials who made this loan apparently did not seek formal council approval by having it debated in open council. If that is so why was that?

Maybe because it was a matter for the council financial department and not one for the council?

do you think the council debate everything that council departments do?

We need to employ a part time librarian, ok, lets raise it in the chambers next week? We need to fix a pothole on ingleby road, better raise that one in the chambers!

I think you're making it out to be something it isn't. Plus it's a LOAN which means it will be repaied with interest.

This loan was discussed between the council leader & head of finance only.

Clearly the clubs business plan is shot to pieces. The blame for this lies squarely with the club owner & his advisers. He should fund HIS business cash flow problems from his own pocket or source money privately.

Bradford Council has no solid commercial basis upon which to make this loan.

Whatever scrutiny was applied was totally flawed and calls into question the competence & integrity of those officials.

Bradford Council has no right to use public money to fund the stupidity of Labour MP's friends.

this is my point about this loan. Few people knew of this loan and to compare this is repairing a pot hole is ludicrous and shows an inability to see that there is a problem with due process within the Council.

WHOKNOWS HOW MANY OTHER LOANS WERE MADE WHERE DUE DILIGENCE FAILEWAS NOTAPPLIED

Excuse me this loan was in the public domain. It was published in the T & A that Gerry Sutcliffe had asked the Council for support in this project.

The Tories amd Lib Dems are just playing games as usual trying to make a non story run.

Bradford Council made a loan of several millions to the developer of the Provident Finance HQ, your not asking about that... millions of pounds there... no lets discuss 200,000 pounds instead.

I think Bierley Boys definition of "Due Diligence" is "They didnt ask me first"..

Everything else is conjecture and hogwash with the intent of hijacking a thread about the RFL making a ruling about Bradford Bulls SuperLeague status.

COYB

Where is the conjecture?

There was no due diligence.

Where is the due diligence in granting an unsecured loan of 88% LTV to a company that already has a mortgage charge against it's assets?

Where si the due diligence in not secuing this loan against Odsal?

Where was the due diligence on a busness plan that is so shot to pieces a company needs loans within months of being set up & after having received well over £1m in season ticket sales, sponsorship & merchandise?

David Green has suggested banks are not lending money, which is why the council stepped in.

Curous then that on 23rd Februaury Barclays bank lodged a charge on absolutely everything Bradford Bulls on 23rd February this year. Tat charge is security against a loan to OK Bulls.

They seem to be diligent were the council aren't.

You mention the RFL. The same RFL that gave Bradford Bulls Holdings B grade licence based on a business plan, then bought the Odsal lease without ensuring the club paid the VAT which led to the winding up order that saw the club liquidated within 12 months of getting it's licence?

Now, where's the hogwash?

BierleyBoy wrote:

WayneRouke wrote:

Reality001 wrote:

tyker2 wrote:

BierleyBoy wrote:

Bone_idle18 wrote:

tyker2 wrote:

BierleyBoy wrote:
oven the previous owners & directors of the club made such a mess, what on earth are this lot playing at?

just exactly what sort of business plan did they put together to say 6,500 season tickets at minimum £180 is disappointing? For a delay in shirts arriving, which is again down to the business plan & ongoing management to create such problems? Just what sort of funding does Omar khan actually have?

He bought the club for £150k up front with a further £75k due last December to P&A Partnership. There is an outstanding mortgage charge on Odsal in respect of this unpaid money.

OK Bulls approached Bradford council in December last year for a loan.

To be seeking bail out loans so soon is a sign of incredibly poor business forecasting & management.

I simply cannot understand why Omar Khan was unable to provide cash flow by other means. He is a man of means & is shown on Companies House as being director of 6 businesses. General Manager Ryan Whitcut is shown as being in 10 companies & Gerry Sutcliffe isn't short of money. Between them they weren't willing to raise the funds?

There are no sound commercial reasons why Bradford Council should have advanced a loan that is 25% higher than the lump sum paid to buy the club.

the business plan is clearly a joke & the loan is not secured against the clubs assets. This begs the question why not? Who approved it & on what grounds?

I'm told the loan is guaranteed, but given Omar Khan is the sole director & owner, has he guaranteed a loan for money he & his colleagues weren't willing to invest?

Where has all the money taken in season tickets, sponsorship & merchandise actually gone?

More importantly people should know that Barclays Bank registered a further mortgage charge for an undisclosed amount against Odsal in February this year. More borrowing on a shot to pieces business plan.

Barclays now has first call on the 30 year Odsal sublease, the Bradford Bulls brand, all assets and all future revenues.

ounces tax payers money should not be used to subsidise wealthy businessmen making a mess.

It's extremely concerning that given there are no grounds to make a loan to such a badly run & badly funded business, the council has gone ahead anyway.

Gerry Sutcliffe is Bradford South Labour MP & co chair at Bradford Bulls. Omar Khan is the sole director & owner of the club & a long standing friend & funder of Gerry Sutcliffe.

Bradford has a Labour Council. Join the dots & see why public money is being used to prop up a business where the big players don't want to put their own money in.

The Local Government Ombudsman needs to look at this loan, it's clearly not based on sound commercial facts & figures or properly secured.

David Green has some questions to answer.

one very accurate summary. The council have but a few days left to provide the information requested. If they fail to do so then the matter ill have to be referred to the Information Commissioner but then........ if it is all above board and kosher why not provide the information.

I find it odd that the officials who made this loan apparently did not seek formal council approval by having it debated in open council. If that is so why was that?

Maybe because it was a matter for the council financial department and not one for the council?

do you think the council debate everything that council departments do?

We need to employ a part time librarian, ok, lets raise it in the chambers next week? We need to fix a pothole on ingleby road, better raise that one in the chambers!

I think you're making it out to be something it isn't. Plus it's a LOAN which means it will be repaied with interest.

This loan was discussed between the council leader & head of finance only.

Clearly the clubs business plan is shot to pieces. The blame for this lies squarely with the club owner & his advisers. He should fund HIS business cash flow problems from his own pocket or source money privately.

Bradford Council has no solid commercial basis upon which to make this loan.

Whatever scrutiny was applied was totally flawed and calls into question the competence & integrity of those officials.

Bradford Council has no right to use public money to fund the stupidity of Labour MP's friends.

this is my point about this loan. Few people knew of this loan and to compare this is repairing a pot hole is ludicrous and shows an inability to see that there is a problem with due process within the Council.

WHOKNOWS HOW MANY OTHER LOANS WERE MADE WHERE DUE DILIGENCE FAILEWAS NOTAPPLIED

Excuse me this loan was in the public domain. It was published in the T & A that Gerry Sutcliffe had asked the Council for support in this project.

The Tories amd Lib Dems are just playing games as usual trying to make a non story run.

Bradford Council made a loan of several millions to the developer of the Provident Finance HQ, your not asking about that... millions of pounds there... no lets discuss 200,000 pounds instead.

I think Bierley Boys definition of "Due Diligence" is "They didnt ask me first"..

Everything else is conjecture and hogwash with the intent of hijacking a thread about the RFL making a ruling about Bradford Bulls SuperLeague status.

COYB

Where is the conjecture?

There was no due diligence.

Where is the due diligence in granting an unsecured loan of 88% LTV to a company that already has a mortgage charge against it's assets?

Where si the due diligence in not secuing this loan against Odsal?

Where was the due diligence on a busness plan that is so shot to pieces a company needs loans within months of being set up & after having received well over £1m in season ticket sales, sponsorship & merchandise?

David Green has suggested banks are not lending money, which is why the council stepped in.

Curous then that on 23rd Februaury Barclays bank lodged a charge on absolutely everything Bradford Bulls on 23rd February this year. Tat charge is security against a loan to OK Bulls.

They seem to be diligent were the council aren't.

You mention the RFL. The same RFL that gave Bradford Bulls Holdings B grade licence based on a business plan, then bought the Odsal lease without ensuring the club paid the VAT which led to the winding up order that saw the club liquidated within 12 months of getting it's licence?

Now, where's the hogwash?

Thread hijack

Not to topic


IGNORE

so he doesnt follow any sporting organization so why post on this site.if your so upset become a counciler and get to the coal face and do something.or are you one of the yogurt knitters who spout a lot but do sod all.get out of your bedroom and do something.then you ll be too busy putting the world to right and wont have time to write on here.ps good luck in your new position back to rugby league COYB on thursday

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WayneRouke wrote:

BierleyBoy wrote:

WayneRouke wrote:

Reality001 wrote:

tyker2 wrote:

BierleyBoy wrote:

Bone_idle18 wrote:

tyker2 wrote:

BierleyBoy wrote:
oven the previous owners & directors of the club made such a mess, what on earth are this lot playing at?

just exactly what sort of business plan did they put together to say 6,500 season tickets at minimum £180 is disappointing? For a delay in shirts arriving, which is again down to the business plan & ongoing management to create such problems? Just what sort of funding does Omar khan actually have?

He bought the club for £150k up front with a further £75k due last December to P&A Partnership. There is an outstanding mortgage charge on Odsal in respect of this unpaid money.

OK Bulls approached Bradford council in December last year for a loan.

To be seeking bail out loans so soon is a sign of incredibly poor business forecasting & management.

I simply cannot understand why Omar Khan was unable to provide cash flow by other means. He is a man of means & is shown on Companies House as being director of 6 businesses. General Manager Ryan Whitcut is shown as being in 10 companies & Gerry Sutcliffe isn't short of money. Between them they weren't willing to raise the funds?

There are no sound commercial reasons why Bradford Council should have advanced a loan that is 25% higher than the lump sum paid to buy the club.

the business plan is clearly a joke & the loan is not secured against the clubs assets. This begs the question why not? Who approved it & on what grounds?

I'm told the loan is guaranteed, but given Omar Khan is the sole director & owner, has he guaranteed a loan for money he & his colleagues weren't willing to invest?

Where has all the money taken in season tickets, sponsorship & merchandise actually gone?

More importantly people should know that Barclays Bank registered a further mortgage charge for an undisclosed amount against Odsal in February this year. More borrowing on a shot to pieces business plan.

Barclays now has first call on the 30 year Odsal sublease, the Bradford Bulls brand, all assets and all future revenues.

ounces tax payers money should not be used to subsidise wealthy businessmen making a mess.

It's extremely concerning that given there are no grounds to make a loan to such a badly run & badly funded business, the council has gone ahead anyway.

Gerry Sutcliffe is Bradford South Labour MP & co chair at Bradford Bulls. Omar Khan is the sole director & owner of the club & a long standing friend & funder of Gerry Sutcliffe.

Bradford has a Labour Council. Join the dots & see why public money is being used to prop up a business where the big players don't want to put their own money in.

The Local Government Ombudsman needs to look at this loan, it's clearly not based on sound commercial facts & figures or properly secured.

David Green has some questions to answer.

one very accurate summary. The council have but a few days left to provide the information requested. If they fail to do so then the matter ill have to be referred to the Information Commissioner but then........ if it is all above board and kosher why not provide the information.

I find it odd that the officials who made this loan apparently did not seek formal council approval by having it debated in open council. If that is so why was that?

Maybe because it was a matter for the council financial department and not one for the council?

do you think the council debate everything that council departments do?

We need to employ a part time librarian, ok, lets raise it in the chambers next week? We need to fix a pothole on ingleby road, better raise that one in the chambers!

I think you're making it out to be something it isn't. Plus it's a LOAN which means it will be repaied with interest.

This loan was discussed between the council leader & head of finance only.

Clearly the clubs business plan is shot to pieces. The blame for this lies squarely with the club owner & his advisers. He should fund HIS business cash flow problems from his own pocket or source money privately.

Bradford Council has no solid commercial basis upon which to make this loan.

Whatever scrutiny was applied was totally flawed and calls into question the competence & integrity of those officials.

Bradford Council has no right to use public money to fund the stupidity of Labour MP's friends.

this is my point about this loan. Few people knew of this loan and to compare this is repairing a pot hole is ludicrous and shows an inability to see that there is a problem with due process within the Council.

WHOKNOWS HOW MANY OTHER LOANS WERE MADE WHERE DUE DILIGENCE FAILEWAS NOTAPPLIED

Excuse me this loan was in the public domain. It was published in the T & A that Gerry Sutcliffe had asked the Council for support in this project.

The Tories amd Lib Dems are just playing games as usual trying to make a non story run.

Bradford Council made a loan of several millions to the developer of the Provident Finance HQ, your not asking about that... millions of pounds there... no lets discuss 200,000 pounds instead.

I think Bierley Boys definition of "Due Diligence" is "They didnt ask me first"..

Everything else is conjecture and hogwash with the intent of hijacking a thread about the RFL making a ruling about Bradford Bulls SuperLeague status.

COYB

Where is the conjecture?

There was no due diligence.

Where is the due diligence in granting an unsecured loan of 88% LTV to a company that already has a mortgage charge against it's assets?

Where si the due diligence in not secuing this loan against Odsal?

Where was the due diligence on a busness plan that is so shot to pieces a company needs loans within months of being set up & after having received well over £1m in season ticket sales, sponsorship & merchandise?

David Green has suggested banks are not lending money, which is why the council stepped in.

Curous then that on 23rd Februaury Barclays bank lodged a charge on absolutely everything Bradford Bulls on 23rd February this year. Tat charge is security against a loan to OK Bulls.

They seem to be diligent were the council aren't.

You mention the RFL. The same RFL that gave Bradford Bulls Holdings B grade licence based on a business plan, then bought the Odsal lease without ensuring the club paid the VAT which led to the winding up order that saw the club liquidated within 12 months of getting it's licence?

Now, where's the hogwash?

Thread hijack

Not to topic


IGNORE

The article is about Bradford Bulls Super League licence. Sutcliffe commented on financial position of club.

No off topic stuff from me. Good to see none of the blinkered fools attacking me can respond with facts.

The club is in disarray with the latest sacking.