Bradford Telegraph and ArgusBradford Bulls points penalty upheld by panel (From Bradford Telegraph and Argus)

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Bradford Bulls points penalty upheld by independent panel

Bradford Telegraph and Argus: Bradford Bulls points penalty upheld Bradford Bulls points penalty upheld

The Bulls’ appeal against their points appeal ended in failure today after an independent sporting sanctions panel upheld the club’s six-point penalty.

Bulls owner Marc Green launched the appeal on the basis that the administration was "unforeseeable" and "unavoidable" and the panel heard the club’s and the RFL's case.

The panel included Bill Broughton and Chris Booth, who are partners at Leeds-based legal firm Pinsent Mason, and James Sleight, an insolvency practitioner.

A spokesperson for the Bulls' board of directors said: “We are naturally disappointed with the panel's decision in finding that we did not meet the necessary threshold to allow our appeal to be fully considered.

“Prior to the appeal hearing, we had already taken initial legal advice on our options should the appeal fail. We will now pursue those options with a view to making a decision on how to take matters further forward in the belief that the decision made was wrong.

“Inevitably, there will be upset amongst our players, supporters and sponsors who have throughout been supportive – both on and off the field.

“As a club, we are doing all we can to repay the faith shown by our supporters. We are hopeful that ultimately our efforts will bring success.”

RFL Chief Operating Officer Ralph Rimmer said: “The RFL accepts the decision of the Sporting Sanctions Appeals Panel and would like to place on record its thanks to the panel members for their professional and thorough approach.

“The unique nature of this panel, and the forensic nature of the investigations that have taken place, have made for a very complicated process which is now at a conclusion.

“The time has now come to move on and put this chapter in the history of Bradford Bulls behind the sport.

“Bradford Bulls chairman Marc Green and his fellow directors have acted in a proper and dignified manner throughout this process and their continuing commitment will ensure the club’s future success."

The independent Sporting Sanctions Appeals Panel will hand down a full written judgement within the next 14 days.

Comments (55)

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6:22pm Wed 11 Jun 14

Bone_idle18 says...

Not really surprised, although a reduction in line with other clubs who have entered Administration would have been nice (2 points back). Especially as we had the additional penalty of losing a years Sky money too. (deferred over 2 years).

Still, local Derby with Keighley should be tasty next season!
Not really surprised, although a reduction in line with other clubs who have entered Administration would have been nice (2 points back). Especially as we had the additional penalty of losing a years Sky money too. (deferred over 2 years). Still, local Derby with Keighley should be tasty next season! Bone_idle18
  • Score: 14

6:24pm Wed 11 Jun 14

axelf1963 says...

I did say none back, Well done green for wasting money on this that could have bought a player.
I did say none back, Well done green for wasting money on this that could have bought a player. axelf1963
  • Score: -15

6:52pm Wed 11 Jun 14

spamohmy says...

Thank god its upheld. The sport is in a real mess. Fev, Halifax and Leigh fans would of abondonned the sport if it was upheld!! If clubs go on like the bulls there would be no game!! It cant be working as look at most tv coverage with its empty stands, esp odsal last week.
Thank god its upheld. The sport is in a real mess. Fev, Halifax and Leigh fans would of abondonned the sport if it was upheld!! If clubs go on like the bulls there would be no game!! It cant be working as look at most tv coverage with its empty stands, esp odsal last week. spamohmy
  • Score: 4

6:53pm Wed 11 Jun 14

Pablo says...

I never had any argument with the six point deduction. The rules are clear and we broke them. You can't have clubs avoiding paying debts by dipping in and out of Administration, without penalty.

We're playing like a Championship side and it looks like that's where we're heading.
I never had any argument with the six point deduction. The rules are clear and we broke them. You can't have clubs avoiding paying debts by dipping in and out of Administration, without penalty. We're playing like a Championship side and it looks like that's where we're heading. Pablo
  • Score: 15

6:56pm Wed 11 Jun 14

spanglishbull.uk says...

Axelf,
Marc Green took the gamble on the appeal.At least he tried to get the decision overturned.If he had not taken the decision to appeal,when it was available,he would have been criticised for not trying.He tried and failed,there is nothing wrong in that,not trying is a bigger sin in my eyes.At least T.V.O.R. will sleep well tonight.
Axelf, Marc Green took the gamble on the appeal.At least he tried to get the decision overturned.If he had not taken the decision to appeal,when it was available,he would have been criticised for not trying.He tried and failed,there is nothing wrong in that,not trying is a bigger sin in my eyes.At least T.V.O.R. will sleep well tonight. spanglishbull.uk
  • Score: 10

7:06pm Wed 11 Jun 14

Pablo says...

spanglishbull.uk wrote:
Axelf,
Marc Green took the gamble on the appeal.At least he tried to get the decision overturned.If he had not taken the decision to appeal,when it was available,he would have been criticised for not trying.He tried and failed,there is nothing wrong in that,not trying is a bigger sin in my eyes.At least T.V.O.R. will sleep well tonight.
Yes, he probably had to give the appeal a try, Spanglish.

"Failed" seems a word that is synonymous with everything associated with the Bulls.
[quote][p][bold]spanglishbull.uk[/bold] wrote: Axelf, Marc Green took the gamble on the appeal.At least he tried to get the decision overturned.If he had not taken the decision to appeal,when it was available,he would have been criticised for not trying.He tried and failed,there is nothing wrong in that,not trying is a bigger sin in my eyes.At least T.V.O.R. will sleep well tonight.[/p][/quote]Yes, he probably had to give the appeal a try, Spanglish. "Failed" seems a word that is synonymous with everything associated with the Bulls. Pablo
  • Score: 1

7:29pm Wed 11 Jun 14

nosher says...

Oh dear we are doomed. Bring on the championship life lol.
Oh dear we are doomed. Bring on the championship life lol. nosher
  • Score: 6

7:45pm Wed 11 Jun 14

Thee Voice of Reason says...

Awaits BradfordBronco, Raisemeup and co to say it's all the RFL's fault, how 2,500 travelling supports on tap have disappeared etc.

Rules were broken and consequences are punishments were dished out. The finger of blame is squarely pointed at Khan and Sutcliffe who made no attempt to cut costs and work on the basis all will be alright.

What is being done now should have been done last year, it wasn't and now there is a relegation year to make the medicine twice as hard to swallow.

The decision is the right one in my eyes, just those who caused this aren't the ones who are going to suffer off the back of it.
Awaits BradfordBronco, Raisemeup and co to say it's all the RFL's fault, how 2,500 travelling supports on tap have disappeared etc. Rules were broken and consequences are punishments were dished out. The finger of blame is squarely pointed at Khan and Sutcliffe who made no attempt to cut costs and work on the basis all will be alright. What is being done now should have been done last year, it wasn't and now there is a relegation year to make the medicine twice as hard to swallow. The decision is the right one in my eyes, just those who caused this aren't the ones who are going to suffer off the back of it. Thee Voice of Reason
  • Score: 12

7:52pm Wed 11 Jun 14

Adeybull says...

Right. These are questions I want clear YES/NO answers to:

1 - Was the admistration primarily intended as a means of removing Khan from the picture?

2 - Did the RFL work closely with and provide advice to Moore & Co, regarding bringing this about?

3 - Did the RFL work closely with Moore & Co, or at least did they provide active and constructive advice, regarding entering administration?

4 - Were the RFL involved in any way in the setting up of the (ultimately aborted) prepack?

5 - Did the RFL provide advice, input, guidance or indications of likely outcomes to Moore & Co, which they relied on in setting up the prepack?

6 - Did the RFL tell Moore & Co - or at least did they leave them with a clear understanding - that there would be no points deduction for entering administration and immediately exiting through a prepack?

7 - Did the RFL see or request business plans and/or financial projections from Moore & Co prior to administration?

8 - Did Moore & Co propose and intend to repay all the non-Khan creditors, and if so is there demonstrable proof that this was intent not just words?

9 - Did the RFL give Moore & Co full opportunity to present and discuss their business plans, before ruling on the points deduction and the (debilitating) ongoing special measures?

10 - Had the club new players lined up ready to join, whose signings were stymied by the continuing special measures?

11 - Were Moore & Co given any prior indication that special measures could or would continue after the administration?

12 - Did the RFL impose a 6 point penalty not a 4 point penaly because they had determined that NO creditors would actiually be repaid?

Maybe we will get answers in the formal report. I rather doubt it,though. Others may be content to let the matter lie and "move on". Not me. I will not be content until I know the answers to the above questions.

Ross...I've made you a nice list there. How about you putting that list to the key protagonists? All we need is yes or no answers - and your indication of just how unequivocal those answers were. And to then be able to see whether there were any differing answers between the various protagonists - because then that really WOULD get interesting.

I suspect there are people who know where the bodies are buried, who hitherto have largely kept their own counsel. I would very much invite and urge any such people to now put in the public domain any (further) information that might cast light on anything that has gone on.

I suggest that, only when we know the answers to these questions (and doubtless some others that I have not included) will ANYONE be in any position to judge whether the destruction of the Bulls over recent months has been justified, unavoidable, inevitable, accidental, criminal, or just plain reprehensible?

And who is actually to blame for the destruction, so they can be judged by history accordingly.
Right. These are questions I want clear YES/NO answers to: 1 - Was the admistration primarily intended as a means of removing Khan from the picture? 2 - Did the RFL work closely with and provide advice to Moore & Co, regarding bringing this about? 3 - Did the RFL work closely with Moore & Co, or at least did they provide active and constructive advice, regarding entering administration? 4 - Were the RFL involved in any way in the setting up of the (ultimately aborted) prepack? 5 - Did the RFL provide advice, input, guidance or indications of likely outcomes to Moore & Co, which they relied on in setting up the prepack? 6 - Did the RFL tell Moore & Co - or at least did they leave them with a clear understanding - that there would be no points deduction for entering administration and immediately exiting through a prepack? 7 - Did the RFL see or request business plans and/or financial projections from Moore & Co prior to administration? 8 - Did Moore & Co propose and intend to repay all the non-Khan creditors, and if so is there demonstrable proof that this was intent not just words? 9 - Did the RFL give Moore & Co full opportunity to present and discuss their business plans, before ruling on the points deduction and the (debilitating) ongoing special measures? 10 - Had the club new players lined up ready to join, whose signings were stymied by the continuing special measures? 11 - Were Moore & Co given any prior indication that special measures could or would continue after the administration? 12 - Did the RFL impose a 6 point penalty not a 4 point penaly because they had determined that NO creditors would actiually be repaid? Maybe we will get answers in the formal report. I rather doubt it,though. Others may be content to let the matter lie and "move on". Not me. I will not be content until I know the answers to the above questions. Ross...I've made you a nice list there. How about you putting that list to the key protagonists? All we need is yes or no answers - and your indication of just how unequivocal those answers were. And to then be able to see whether there were any differing answers between the various protagonists - because then that really WOULD get interesting. I suspect there are people who know where the bodies are buried, who hitherto have largely kept their own counsel. I would very much invite and urge any such people to now put in the public domain any (further) information that might cast light on anything that has gone on. I suggest that, only when we know the answers to these questions (and doubtless some others that I have not included) will ANYONE be in any position to judge whether the destruction of the Bulls over recent months has been justified, unavoidable, inevitable, accidental, criminal, or just plain reprehensible? And who is actually to blame for the destruction, so they can be judged by history accordingly. Adeybull
  • Score: 36

7:58pm Wed 11 Jun 14

tinytoonster says...

Adeybull wrote:
Right. These are questions I want clear YES/NO answers to:

1 - Was the admistration primarily intended as a means of removing Khan from the picture?

2 - Did the RFL work closely with and provide advice to Moore & Co, regarding bringing this about?

3 - Did the RFL work closely with Moore & Co, or at least did they provide active and constructive advice, regarding entering administration?

4 - Were the RFL involved in any way in the setting up of the (ultimately aborted) prepack?

5 - Did the RFL provide advice, input, guidance or indications of likely outcomes to Moore & Co, which they relied on in setting up the prepack?

6 - Did the RFL tell Moore & Co - or at least did they leave them with a clear understanding - that there would be no points deduction for entering administration and immediately exiting through a prepack?

7 - Did the RFL see or request business plans and/or financial projections from Moore & Co prior to administration?

8 - Did Moore & Co propose and intend to repay all the non-Khan creditors, and if so is there demonstrable proof that this was intent not just words?

9 - Did the RFL give Moore & Co full opportunity to present and discuss their business plans, before ruling on the points deduction and the (debilitating) ongoing special measures?

10 - Had the club new players lined up ready to join, whose signings were stymied by the continuing special measures?

11 - Were Moore & Co given any prior indication that special measures could or would continue after the administration?

12 - Did the RFL impose a 6 point penalty not a 4 point penaly because they had determined that NO creditors would actiually be repaid?

Maybe we will get answers in the formal report. I rather doubt it,though. Others may be content to let the matter lie and "move on". Not me. I will not be content until I know the answers to the above questions.

Ross...I've made you a nice list there. How about you putting that list to the key protagonists? All we need is yes or no answers - and your indication of just how unequivocal those answers were. And to then be able to see whether there were any differing answers between the various protagonists - because then that really WOULD get interesting.

I suspect there are people who know where the bodies are buried, who hitherto have largely kept their own counsel. I would very much invite and urge any such people to now put in the public domain any (further) information that might cast light on anything that has gone on.

I suggest that, only when we know the answers to these questions (and doubtless some others that I have not included) will ANYONE be in any position to judge whether the destruction of the Bulls over recent months has been justified, unavoidable, inevitable, accidental, criminal, or just plain reprehensible?

And who is actually to blame for the destruction, so they can be judged by history accordingly.
question,
who cares?
time to move on.
[quote][p][bold]Adeybull[/bold] wrote: Right. These are questions I want clear YES/NO answers to: 1 - Was the admistration primarily intended as a means of removing Khan from the picture? 2 - Did the RFL work closely with and provide advice to Moore & Co, regarding bringing this about? 3 - Did the RFL work closely with Moore & Co, or at least did they provide active and constructive advice, regarding entering administration? 4 - Were the RFL involved in any way in the setting up of the (ultimately aborted) prepack? 5 - Did the RFL provide advice, input, guidance or indications of likely outcomes to Moore & Co, which they relied on in setting up the prepack? 6 - Did the RFL tell Moore & Co - or at least did they leave them with a clear understanding - that there would be no points deduction for entering administration and immediately exiting through a prepack? 7 - Did the RFL see or request business plans and/or financial projections from Moore & Co prior to administration? 8 - Did Moore & Co propose and intend to repay all the non-Khan creditors, and if so is there demonstrable proof that this was intent not just words? 9 - Did the RFL give Moore & Co full opportunity to present and discuss their business plans, before ruling on the points deduction and the (debilitating) ongoing special measures? 10 - Had the club new players lined up ready to join, whose signings were stymied by the continuing special measures? 11 - Were Moore & Co given any prior indication that special measures could or would continue after the administration? 12 - Did the RFL impose a 6 point penalty not a 4 point penaly because they had determined that NO creditors would actiually be repaid? Maybe we will get answers in the formal report. I rather doubt it,though. Others may be content to let the matter lie and "move on". Not me. I will not be content until I know the answers to the above questions. Ross...I've made you a nice list there. How about you putting that list to the key protagonists? All we need is yes or no answers - and your indication of just how unequivocal those answers were. And to then be able to see whether there were any differing answers between the various protagonists - because then that really WOULD get interesting. I suspect there are people who know where the bodies are buried, who hitherto have largely kept their own counsel. I would very much invite and urge any such people to now put in the public domain any (further) information that might cast light on anything that has gone on. I suggest that, only when we know the answers to these questions (and doubtless some others that I have not included) will ANYONE be in any position to judge whether the destruction of the Bulls over recent months has been justified, unavoidable, inevitable, accidental, criminal, or just plain reprehensible? And who is actually to blame for the destruction, so they can be judged by history accordingly.[/p][/quote]question, who cares? time to move on. tinytoonster
  • Score: -14

8:03pm Wed 11 Jun 14

Adeybull says...

Who cares? Those who want to see the truth, and justice done.
Who cares? Those who want to see the truth, and justice done. Adeybull
  • Score: 20

8:07pm Wed 11 Jun 14

Pablo says...

Adeybull wrote:
Right. These are questions I want clear YES/NO answers to:

1 - Was the admistration primarily intended as a means of removing Khan from the picture?

2 - Did the RFL work closely with and provide advice to Moore & Co, regarding bringing this about?

3 - Did the RFL work closely with Moore & Co, or at least did they provide active and constructive advice, regarding entering administration?

4 - Were the RFL involved in any way in the setting up of the (ultimately aborted) prepack?

5 - Did the RFL provide advice, input, guidance or indications of likely outcomes to Moore & Co, which they relied on in setting up the prepack?

6 - Did the RFL tell Moore & Co - or at least did they leave them with a clear understanding - that there would be no points deduction for entering administration and immediately exiting through a prepack?

7 - Did the RFL see or request business plans and/or financial projections from Moore & Co prior to administration?

8 - Did Moore & Co propose and intend to repay all the non-Khan creditors, and if so is there demonstrable proof that this was intent not just words?

9 - Did the RFL give Moore & Co full opportunity to present and discuss their business plans, before ruling on the points deduction and the (debilitating) ongoing special measures?

10 - Had the club new players lined up ready to join, whose signings were stymied by the continuing special measures?

11 - Were Moore & Co given any prior indication that special measures could or would continue after the administration?

12 - Did the RFL impose a 6 point penalty not a 4 point penaly because they had determined that NO creditors would actiually be repaid?

Maybe we will get answers in the formal report. I rather doubt it,though. Others may be content to let the matter lie and "move on". Not me. I will not be content until I know the answers to the above questions.

Ross...I've made you a nice list there. How about you putting that list to the key protagonists? All we need is yes or no answers - and your indication of just how unequivocal those answers were. And to then be able to see whether there were any differing answers between the various protagonists - because then that really WOULD get interesting.

I suspect there are people who know where the bodies are buried, who hitherto have largely kept their own counsel. I would very much invite and urge any such people to now put in the public domain any (further) information that might cast light on anything that has gone on.

I suggest that, only when we know the answers to these questions (and doubtless some others that I have not included) will ANYONE be in any position to judge whether the destruction of the Bulls over recent months has been justified, unavoidable, inevitable, accidental, criminal, or just plain reprehensible?

And who is actually to blame for the destruction, so they can be judged by history accordingly.
The answer is simpler than the over complication in your post.

We broke the rules and paid the appropriate penalty. End of!

In answer to your last sentence, mismanagement of successive boards. I exclude Marc Green from any blame for our current predicament.
[quote][p][bold]Adeybull[/bold] wrote: Right. These are questions I want clear YES/NO answers to: 1 - Was the admistration primarily intended as a means of removing Khan from the picture? 2 - Did the RFL work closely with and provide advice to Moore & Co, regarding bringing this about? 3 - Did the RFL work closely with Moore & Co, or at least did they provide active and constructive advice, regarding entering administration? 4 - Were the RFL involved in any way in the setting up of the (ultimately aborted) prepack? 5 - Did the RFL provide advice, input, guidance or indications of likely outcomes to Moore & Co, which they relied on in setting up the prepack? 6 - Did the RFL tell Moore & Co - or at least did they leave them with a clear understanding - that there would be no points deduction for entering administration and immediately exiting through a prepack? 7 - Did the RFL see or request business plans and/or financial projections from Moore & Co prior to administration? 8 - Did Moore & Co propose and intend to repay all the non-Khan creditors, and if so is there demonstrable proof that this was intent not just words? 9 - Did the RFL give Moore & Co full opportunity to present and discuss their business plans, before ruling on the points deduction and the (debilitating) ongoing special measures? 10 - Had the club new players lined up ready to join, whose signings were stymied by the continuing special measures? 11 - Were Moore & Co given any prior indication that special measures could or would continue after the administration? 12 - Did the RFL impose a 6 point penalty not a 4 point penaly because they had determined that NO creditors would actiually be repaid? Maybe we will get answers in the formal report. I rather doubt it,though. Others may be content to let the matter lie and "move on". Not me. I will not be content until I know the answers to the above questions. Ross...I've made you a nice list there. How about you putting that list to the key protagonists? All we need is yes or no answers - and your indication of just how unequivocal those answers were. And to then be able to see whether there were any differing answers between the various protagonists - because then that really WOULD get interesting. I suspect there are people who know where the bodies are buried, who hitherto have largely kept their own counsel. I would very much invite and urge any such people to now put in the public domain any (further) information that might cast light on anything that has gone on. I suggest that, only when we know the answers to these questions (and doubtless some others that I have not included) will ANYONE be in any position to judge whether the destruction of the Bulls over recent months has been justified, unavoidable, inevitable, accidental, criminal, or just plain reprehensible? And who is actually to blame for the destruction, so they can be judged by history accordingly.[/p][/quote]The answer is simpler than the over complication in your post. We broke the rules and paid the appropriate penalty. End of! In answer to your last sentence, mismanagement of successive boards. I exclude Marc Green from any blame for our current predicament. Pablo
  • Score: -8

8:10pm Wed 11 Jun 14

raisemeup says...

Adeybull wrote:
Right. These are questions I want clear YES/NO answers to:

1 - Was the admistration primarily intended as a means of removing Khan from the picture?

2 - Did the RFL work closely with and provide advice to Moore & Co, regarding bringing this about?

3 - Did the RFL work closely with Moore & Co, or at least did they provide active and constructive advice, regarding entering administration?

4 - Were the RFL involved in any way in the setting up of the (ultimately aborted) prepack?

5 - Did the RFL provide advice, input, guidance or indications of likely outcomes to Moore & Co, which they relied on in setting up the prepack?

6 - Did the RFL tell Moore & Co - or at least did they leave them with a clear understanding - that there would be no points deduction for entering administration and immediately exiting through a prepack?

7 - Did the RFL see or request business plans and/or financial projections from Moore & Co prior to administration?

8 - Did Moore & Co propose and intend to repay all the non-Khan creditors, and if so is there demonstrable proof that this was intent not just words?

9 - Did the RFL give Moore & Co full opportunity to present and discuss their business plans, before ruling on the points deduction and the (debilitating) ongoing special measures?

10 - Had the club new players lined up ready to join, whose signings were stymied by the continuing special measures?

11 - Were Moore & Co given any prior indication that special measures could or would continue after the administration?

12 - Did the RFL impose a 6 point penalty not a 4 point penaly because they had determined that NO creditors would actiually be repaid?

Maybe we will get answers in the formal report. I rather doubt it,though. Others may be content to let the matter lie and "move on". Not me. I will not be content until I know the answers to the above questions.

Ross...I've made you a nice list there. How about you putting that list to the key protagonists? All we need is yes or no answers - and your indication of just how unequivocal those answers were. And to then be able to see whether there were any differing answers between the various protagonists - because then that really WOULD get interesting.

I suspect there are people who know where the bodies are buried, who hitherto have largely kept their own counsel. I would very much invite and urge any such people to now put in the public domain any (further) information that might cast light on anything that has gone on.

I suggest that, only when we know the answers to these questions (and doubtless some others that I have not included) will ANYONE be in any position to judge whether the destruction of the Bulls over recent months has been justified, unavoidable, inevitable, accidental, criminal, or just plain reprehensible?

And who is actually to blame for the destruction, so they can be judged by history accordingly.
You are absolutely correct in the questions you have asked, as we all know a different side to the one we are being told. Will look forward to a complete and INDEPENDENT arbiter NOT ONE INVOLVED WITH THE RFL IN ANY WAY OR THE BULLS. WE NEED THE TRUTH.
[quote][p][bold]Adeybull[/bold] wrote: Right. These are questions I want clear YES/NO answers to: 1 - Was the admistration primarily intended as a means of removing Khan from the picture? 2 - Did the RFL work closely with and provide advice to Moore & Co, regarding bringing this about? 3 - Did the RFL work closely with Moore & Co, or at least did they provide active and constructive advice, regarding entering administration? 4 - Were the RFL involved in any way in the setting up of the (ultimately aborted) prepack? 5 - Did the RFL provide advice, input, guidance or indications of likely outcomes to Moore & Co, which they relied on in setting up the prepack? 6 - Did the RFL tell Moore & Co - or at least did they leave them with a clear understanding - that there would be no points deduction for entering administration and immediately exiting through a prepack? 7 - Did the RFL see or request business plans and/or financial projections from Moore & Co prior to administration? 8 - Did Moore & Co propose and intend to repay all the non-Khan creditors, and if so is there demonstrable proof that this was intent not just words? 9 - Did the RFL give Moore & Co full opportunity to present and discuss their business plans, before ruling on the points deduction and the (debilitating) ongoing special measures? 10 - Had the club new players lined up ready to join, whose signings were stymied by the continuing special measures? 11 - Were Moore & Co given any prior indication that special measures could or would continue after the administration? 12 - Did the RFL impose a 6 point penalty not a 4 point penaly because they had determined that NO creditors would actiually be repaid? Maybe we will get answers in the formal report. I rather doubt it,though. Others may be content to let the matter lie and "move on". Not me. I will not be content until I know the answers to the above questions. Ross...I've made you a nice list there. How about you putting that list to the key protagonists? All we need is yes or no answers - and your indication of just how unequivocal those answers were. And to then be able to see whether there were any differing answers between the various protagonists - because then that really WOULD get interesting. I suspect there are people who know where the bodies are buried, who hitherto have largely kept their own counsel. I would very much invite and urge any such people to now put in the public domain any (further) information that might cast light on anything that has gone on. I suggest that, only when we know the answers to these questions (and doubtless some others that I have not included) will ANYONE be in any position to judge whether the destruction of the Bulls over recent months has been justified, unavoidable, inevitable, accidental, criminal, or just plain reprehensible? And who is actually to blame for the destruction, so they can be judged by history accordingly.[/p][/quote]You are absolutely correct in the questions you have asked, as we all know a different side to the one we are being told. Will look forward to a complete and INDEPENDENT arbiter NOT ONE INVOLVED WITH THE RFL IN ANY WAY OR THE BULLS. WE NEED THE TRUTH. raisemeup
  • Score: 11

8:13pm Wed 11 Jun 14

Sad bull says...

I understand where you are coming from but there is no doubt from all I have read and heard that Moore and co were at best mislead by Rimmer and Solly or at worst which I think is more likely, simply conned.

Right or wrong is a matter of opinion but what they said to Moore and co is plain FACT.

The RFL should be honest but they don't know the meaning of the word and will say or do whatever they have to to get the desired end result.

Bulls will go down as was always the plan.
I understand where you are coming from but there is no doubt from all I have read and heard that Moore and co were at best mislead by Rimmer and Solly or at worst which I think is more likely, simply conned. Right or wrong is a matter of opinion but what they said to Moore and co is plain FACT. The RFL should be honest but they don't know the meaning of the word and will say or do whatever they have to to get the desired end result. Bulls will go down as was always the plan. Sad bull
  • Score: 6

8:16pm Wed 11 Jun 14

spanglishbull.uk says...

Adeybull,
Fully agree with all you say.Somewhere along the line,whether it be the R.F.L.,Mr Moore etc,Khan,Sutcliffe,W
hitcutt, somebody is not telling the truth.Why would Moore issue a statement saying he had been told by Rimmer that no points would be deducted for entering admin.Nobody in their right mind would make such a statement if there was not something there.The fans of the Bulls and ex players who have backed the club through all of this fiasco deserve to know the truth.Saying that I would not expect any statement of truth from the R.f.L.So,even though we deserve the truth I fear we will never get to hear the true facts
Adeybull, Fully agree with all you say.Somewhere along the line,whether it be the R.F.L.,Mr Moore etc,Khan,Sutcliffe,W hitcutt, somebody is not telling the truth.Why would Moore issue a statement saying he had been told by Rimmer that no points would be deducted for entering admin.Nobody in their right mind would make such a statement if there was not something there.The fans of the Bulls and ex players who have backed the club through all of this fiasco deserve to know the truth.Saying that I would not expect any statement of truth from the R.f.L.So,even though we deserve the truth I fear we will never get to hear the true facts spanglishbull.uk
  • Score: 9

8:22pm Wed 11 Jun 14

spanglishbull.uk says...

Sadbull,
You are probably correct that the R.F.L. wanted the Bulls down.Saying that they certainly have not helped themselves before Marc Green took over.The only other thing I will say is that the other club the R.F.L. wanted out,Wakefield,will in all probability stay up but do not be surprised if pressure is now put on them.The R.F.L. certainly do not want to lose their flagship club London.
Sadbull, You are probably correct that the R.F.L. wanted the Bulls down.Saying that they certainly have not helped themselves before Marc Green took over.The only other thing I will say is that the other club the R.F.L. wanted out,Wakefield,will in all probability stay up but do not be surprised if pressure is now put on them.The R.F.L. certainly do not want to lose their flagship club London. spanglishbull.uk
  • Score: 10

8:49pm Wed 11 Jun 14

fedupwiththeBS says...

time to move on support the lads and hope we can finish the season with a bit of pride to carry into the championship next season.

One thing that is being overlooked by many on here is that it was Green that took the Club into Admin to protect his loan that he had made to Moore and Whitcut. Everyone knows the rules regarding administration so the points deduction should not have been a surprise.
time to move on support the lads and hope we can finish the season with a bit of pride to carry into the championship next season. One thing that is being overlooked by many on here is that it was Green that took the Club into Admin to protect his loan that he had made to Moore and Whitcut. Everyone knows the rules regarding administration so the points deduction should not have been a surprise. fedupwiththeBS
  • Score: 5

8:56pm Wed 11 Jun 14

Sad bull says...

fedupwiththeBS wrote:
time to move on support the lads and hope we can finish the season with a bit of pride to carry into the championship next season.

One thing that is being overlooked by many on here is that it was Green that took the Club into Admin to protect his loan that he had made to Moore and Whitcut. Everyone knows the rules regarding administration so the points deduction should not have been a surprise.
Unless they were told it wouldn't happen !!
[quote][p][bold]fedupwiththeBS[/bold] wrote: time to move on support the lads and hope we can finish the season with a bit of pride to carry into the championship next season. One thing that is being overlooked by many on here is that it was Green that took the Club into Admin to protect his loan that he had made to Moore and Whitcut. Everyone knows the rules regarding administration so the points deduction should not have been a surprise.[/p][/quote]Unless they were told it wouldn't happen !! Sad bull
  • Score: 5

9:01pm Wed 11 Jun 14

Bradfordbull72 says...

It is not the points deduction that will relegate us, it is the money that we have been denied and the special measures imposed both of which are unprecedented and I believe morally wrong with relegation being fought this year. Thus denying us the chance to have a squad of competitive players. I can not wait for the next club to find themselves in this position and will have not a scrap of sympathy for the same clubs sat divvying up our sky money.
As for Solly, Wood and Rimmer I do not know how you can look in the mirror, and remember what goes around comes around.
It is not the points deduction that will relegate us, it is the money that we have been denied and the special measures imposed both of which are unprecedented and I believe morally wrong with relegation being fought this year. Thus denying us the chance to have a squad of competitive players. I can not wait for the next club to find themselves in this position and will have not a scrap of sympathy for the same clubs sat divvying up our sky money. As for Solly, Wood and Rimmer I do not know how you can look in the mirror, and remember what goes around comes around. Bradfordbull72
  • Score: 16

9:14pm Wed 11 Jun 14

nosher says...

Its all history now. Time to move on. At least we should be able to put a team together to compete in the championship. COYB
Its all history now. Time to move on. At least we should be able to put a team together to compete in the championship. COYB nosher
  • Score: -2

9:23pm Wed 11 Jun 14

tuono 59 says...

i would like to know which company was given the 6 point penalty?
i would like to know which company was given the 6 point penalty? tuono 59
  • Score: -4

9:28pm Wed 11 Jun 14

nosher says...

In the next few weeks the exodus from the clubs better players will start. It wont take long lol
In the next few weeks the exodus from the clubs better players will start. It wont take long lol nosher
  • Score: 1

9:36pm Wed 11 Jun 14

Alhaurinrhino says...

See ya
See ya Alhaurinrhino
  • Score: -7

9:39pm Wed 11 Jun 14

spanglishbull.uk says...

On good authority,this is probably not over yet.I have been reliably informed the main basis of their appeal is that they were definitely misled by the R.F.L. and especially by one man.This is the same person who misled Sheffield into believing they would be better served amalgamating with Huddersfield.We all know what happened there.It is time that the R.F.L. stood this man down from his post as he is quite obviously unreliable and does not know what he is talking about.Apparently the panel are going to make a statement on the actual findings and reasons for the refusal to nullify the penalty.What is the betting this person is not mentioned and sheltered by the useless R.F.L.
On good authority,this is probably not over yet.I have been reliably informed the main basis of their appeal is that they were definitely misled by the R.F.L. and especially by one man.This is the same person who misled Sheffield into believing they would be better served amalgamating with Huddersfield.We all know what happened there.It is time that the R.F.L. stood this man down from his post as he is quite obviously unreliable and does not know what he is talking about.Apparently the panel are going to make a statement on the actual findings and reasons for the refusal to nullify the penalty.What is the betting this person is not mentioned and sheltered by the useless R.F.L. spanglishbull.uk
  • Score: 1

10:01pm Wed 11 Jun 14

Thee Voice of Reason says...

Bradfordbull72 wrote:
It is not the points deduction that will relegate us, it is the money that we have been denied and the special measures imposed both of which are unprecedented and I believe morally wrong with relegation being fought this year. Thus denying us the chance to have a squad of competitive players. I can not wait for the next club to find themselves in this position and will have not a scrap of sympathy for the same clubs sat divvying up our sky money.
As for Solly, Wood and Rimmer I do not know how you can look in the mirror, and remember what goes around comes around.
The money withheld wouldn't cover the debts written off by the club in the last two admins and the special measures were imposed because the Bulls couldn't be trusted to live within their means.

Unless you think living within your means includes signing players like Carvell whilst being unable to pay the wages of the players Bulls already had.
[quote][p][bold]Bradfordbull72[/bold] wrote: It is not the points deduction that will relegate us, it is the money that we have been denied and the special measures imposed both of which are unprecedented and I believe morally wrong with relegation being fought this year. Thus denying us the chance to have a squad of competitive players. I can not wait for the next club to find themselves in this position and will have not a scrap of sympathy for the same clubs sat divvying up our sky money. As for Solly, Wood and Rimmer I do not know how you can look in the mirror, and remember what goes around comes around.[/p][/quote]The money withheld wouldn't cover the debts written off by the club in the last two admins and the special measures were imposed because the Bulls couldn't be trusted to live within their means. Unless you think living within your means includes signing players like Carvell whilst being unable to pay the wages of the players Bulls already had. Thee Voice of Reason
  • Score: -11

10:17pm Wed 11 Jun 14

Bradfordbull72 says...

Alhaurinrhino wrote:
See ya
Are you good at puzzles, work this out nkbo head
[quote][p][bold]Alhaurinrhino[/bold] wrote: See ya[/p][/quote]Are you good at puzzles, work this out nkbo head Bradfordbull72
  • Score: 9

10:33pm Wed 11 Jun 14

hollymae says...

Thank god for the sanity of Adey Bull....a poster who talks sense and has an understanding of the wider aspects here. The reality is that the truth will never come out, As with anything else RFL it will be swept under the carpet to protect the protagonists and politicians in the game. The RFL want rid of us end of. The power struggle in the game prevented Koukash from winning the bidding as the RFL cannot allow another club to be owned by the power group of Koukash, Lenagan, Moran et al who are seeking to take power from the shambles of an administration team that the RFL is. We are now doomed and it will be tough to come back with the new promotion playoff system and the inevitable exodus on our better players. Thanks RFL and thanks Mr Caisley......you originally set the downfall in motion with the signing of Harris and the non existent investors when the board was over thrown in 2012.
Thank god for the sanity of Adey Bull....a poster who talks sense and has an understanding of the wider aspects here. The reality is that the truth will never come out, As with anything else RFL it will be swept under the carpet to protect the protagonists and politicians in the game. The RFL want rid of us end of. The power struggle in the game prevented Koukash from winning the bidding as the RFL cannot allow another club to be owned by the power group of Koukash, Lenagan, Moran et al who are seeking to take power from the shambles of an administration team that the RFL is. We are now doomed and it will be tough to come back with the new promotion playoff system and the inevitable exodus on our better players. Thanks RFL and thanks Mr Caisley......you originally set the downfall in motion with the signing of Harris and the non existent investors when the board was over thrown in 2012. hollymae
  • Score: 9

10:39pm Wed 11 Jun 14

tunnel end al says...

spamohmy wrote:
Thank god its upheld. The sport is in a real mess. Fev, Halifax and Leigh fans would of abondonned the sport if it was upheld!! If clubs go on like the bulls there would be no game!! It cant be working as look at most tv coverage with its empty stands, esp odsal last week.
who gives a s....about other clubs the bulls have been craped on from a great height, fev fax and leigh will never have support like the bulls, so how dare you comment on the crowds at odsal as clubs like them will never fill a ground and the shay can only open half of it anyway, no doubt its folk like you who will jump ship and go watch whinos
[quote][p][bold]spamohmy[/bold] wrote: Thank god its upheld. The sport is in a real mess. Fev, Halifax and Leigh fans would of abondonned the sport if it was upheld!! If clubs go on like the bulls there would be no game!! It cant be working as look at most tv coverage with its empty stands, esp odsal last week.[/p][/quote]who gives a s....about other clubs the bulls have been craped on from a great height, fev fax and leigh will never have support like the bulls, so how dare you comment on the crowds at odsal as clubs like them will never fill a ground and the shay can only open half of it anyway, no doubt its folk like you who will jump ship and go watch whinos tunnel end al
  • Score: 2

10:47pm Wed 11 Jun 14

tunnel end al says...

Alhaurinrhino wrote:
See ya
oh what a surprise you whinos coming out with more crap no doubt you found your leeds scarf after the moths had had a good sleep in it I know what I would do in it !!!!! maybe we need to throw more forward passes ,like you lot
[quote][p][bold]Alhaurinrhino[/bold] wrote: See ya[/p][/quote]oh what a surprise you whinos coming out with more crap no doubt you found your leeds scarf after the moths had had a good sleep in it I know what I would do in it !!!!! maybe we need to throw more forward passes ,like you lot tunnel end al
  • Score: 2

10:50pm Wed 11 Jun 14

Thee Voice of Reason says...

tunnel end al wrote:
spamohmy wrote:
Thank god its upheld. The sport is in a real mess. Fev, Halifax and Leigh fans would of abondonned the sport if it was upheld!! If clubs go on like the bulls there would be no game!! It cant be working as look at most tv coverage with its empty stands, esp odsal last week.
who gives a s....about other clubs the bulls have been craped on from a great height, fev fax and leigh will never have support like the bulls, so how dare you comment on the crowds at odsal as clubs like them will never fill a ground and the shay can only open half of it anyway, no doubt its folk like you who will jump ship and go watch whinos
The Bulls haven't been crapped on from a great height. The mess is all of their own making. Spend more money than you have in any way of life and it will not end good.
[quote][p][bold]tunnel end al[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]spamohmy[/bold] wrote: Thank god its upheld. The sport is in a real mess. Fev, Halifax and Leigh fans would of abondonned the sport if it was upheld!! If clubs go on like the bulls there would be no game!! It cant be working as look at most tv coverage with its empty stands, esp odsal last week.[/p][/quote]who gives a s....about other clubs the bulls have been craped on from a great height, fev fax and leigh will never have support like the bulls, so how dare you comment on the crowds at odsal as clubs like them will never fill a ground and the shay can only open half of it anyway, no doubt its folk like you who will jump ship and go watch whinos[/p][/quote]The Bulls haven't been crapped on from a great height. The mess is all of their own making. Spend more money than you have in any way of life and it will not end good. Thee Voice of Reason
  • Score: 4

10:56pm Wed 11 Jun 14

tunnel end al says...

we need to stick together now and get behind the team, if we go down then so be it ,but we will have the best following in the championship and if we an keep hold of some first teamers then it won be long before we are back, sticking two fingers up at the rfl and for the lies of wakey,fartown ,and London it wont be long before you are there as well
we need to stick together now and get behind the team, if we go down then so be it ,but we will have the best following in the championship and if we an keep hold of some first teamers then it won be long before we are back, sticking two fingers up at the rfl and for the lies of wakey,fartown ,and London it wont be long before you are there as well tunnel end al
  • Score: 0

11:04pm Wed 11 Jun 14

tunnel end al says...

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
tunnel end al wrote:
spamohmy wrote:
Thank god its upheld. The sport is in a real mess. Fev, Halifax and Leigh fans would of abondonned the sport if it was upheld!! If clubs go on like the bulls there would be no game!! It cant be working as look at most tv coverage with its empty stands, esp odsal last week.
who gives a s....about other clubs the bulls have been craped on from a great height, fev fax and leigh will never have support like the bulls, so how dare you comment on the crowds at odsal as clubs like them will never fill a ground and the shay can only open half of it anyway, no doubt its folk like you who will jump ship and go watch whinos
The Bulls haven't been crapped on from a great height. The mess is all of their own making. Spend more money than you have in any way of life and it will not end good.
work this one out pal GGF
[quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]tunnel end al[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]spamohmy[/bold] wrote: Thank god its upheld. The sport is in a real mess. Fev, Halifax and Leigh fans would of abondonned the sport if it was upheld!! If clubs go on like the bulls there would be no game!! It cant be working as look at most tv coverage with its empty stands, esp odsal last week.[/p][/quote]who gives a s....about other clubs the bulls have been craped on from a great height, fev fax and leigh will never have support like the bulls, so how dare you comment on the crowds at odsal as clubs like them will never fill a ground and the shay can only open half of it anyway, no doubt its folk like you who will jump ship and go watch whinos[/p][/quote]The Bulls haven't been crapped on from a great height. The mess is all of their own making. Spend more money than you have in any way of life and it will not end good.[/p][/quote]work this one out pal GGF tunnel end al
  • Score: -5

11:09pm Wed 11 Jun 14

Thee Voice of Reason says...

tunnel end al wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
tunnel end al wrote:
spamohmy wrote:
Thank god its upheld. The sport is in a real mess. Fev, Halifax and Leigh fans would of abondonned the sport if it was upheld!! If clubs go on like the bulls there would be no game!! It cant be working as look at most tv coverage with its empty stands, esp odsal last week.
who gives a s....about other clubs the bulls have been craped on from a great height, fev fax and leigh will never have support like the bulls, so how dare you comment on the crowds at odsal as clubs like them will never fill a ground and the shay can only open half of it anyway, no doubt its folk like you who will jump ship and go watch whinos
The Bulls haven't been crapped on from a great height. The mess is all of their own making. Spend more money than you have in any way of life and it will not end good.
work this one out pal GGF
Victim complex strikes again.
[quote][p][bold]tunnel end al[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]tunnel end al[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]spamohmy[/bold] wrote: Thank god its upheld. The sport is in a real mess. Fev, Halifax and Leigh fans would of abondonned the sport if it was upheld!! If clubs go on like the bulls there would be no game!! It cant be working as look at most tv coverage with its empty stands, esp odsal last week.[/p][/quote]who gives a s....about other clubs the bulls have been craped on from a great height, fev fax and leigh will never have support like the bulls, so how dare you comment on the crowds at odsal as clubs like them will never fill a ground and the shay can only open half of it anyway, no doubt its folk like you who will jump ship and go watch whinos[/p][/quote]The Bulls haven't been crapped on from a great height. The mess is all of their own making. Spend more money than you have in any way of life and it will not end good.[/p][/quote]work this one out pal GGF[/p][/quote]Victim complex strikes again. Thee Voice of Reason
  • Score: 0

11:20pm Wed 11 Jun 14

bradfordbronco says...

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
Awaits BradfordBronco, Raisemeup and co to say it's all the RFL's fault, how 2,500 travelling supports on tap have disappeared etc.

Rules were broken and consequences are punishments were dished out. The finger of blame is squarely pointed at Khan and Sutcliffe who made no attempt to cut costs and work on the basis all will be alright.

What is being done now should have been done last year, it wasn't and now there is a relegation year to make the medicine twice as hard to swallow.

The decision is the right one in my eyes, just those who caused this aren't the ones who are going to suffer off the back of it.
Thanks for interest but I'm quite capable of speaking for my self TVOR.

What was said behind closed doors will perhaps always remain a mystery.

What the hell any of it has to do with you will always be a mystery.

Its done now and the long struggle for survival in SL against all the odds will probably end in defeat. Its not the end of the world. We might finally be able to compete on level playing field with the other clubs and once we get back to discussing rugby again you might even disappear.

One thing I'd like to know is, do you actually have any other interests or is being negative about the Bradford Bulls your main pastime?
[quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: Awaits BradfordBronco, Raisemeup and co to say it's all the RFL's fault, how 2,500 travelling supports on tap have disappeared etc. Rules were broken and consequences are punishments were dished out. The finger of blame is squarely pointed at Khan and Sutcliffe who made no attempt to cut costs and work on the basis all will be alright. What is being done now should have been done last year, it wasn't and now there is a relegation year to make the medicine twice as hard to swallow. The decision is the right one in my eyes, just those who caused this aren't the ones who are going to suffer off the back of it.[/p][/quote]Thanks for interest but I'm quite capable of speaking for my self TVOR. What was said behind closed doors will perhaps always remain a mystery. What the hell any of it has to do with you will always be a mystery. Its done now and the long struggle for survival in SL against all the odds will probably end in defeat. Its not the end of the world. We might finally be able to compete on level playing field with the other clubs and once we get back to discussing rugby again you might even disappear. One thing I'd like to know is, do you actually have any other interests or is being negative about the Bradford Bulls your main pastime? bradfordbronco
  • Score: 4

11:48pm Wed 11 Jun 14

The Fat Lady Sings says...

"And who is actually to blame for the destruction, so they can be judged by history accordingly."
Unfortunately, neither you or I will be around for that judgement.
However, all the Bulls had to be was 3 wins better than Wakefield to survive. 3 wins! And we haven't so far looked capable of being 1 win better. As the season started, punters were lauding Cummins and his squad as top eight, even top six. But, we have played like a bottom two! All that was needed was 3 wins more than Wakefield. And I don't want the apologist citing no money, small squad, excuses, excuses. 3 wins better than Wakefield, that was all it needed.
"And who is actually to blame for the destruction, so they can be judged by history accordingly." Unfortunately, neither you or I will be around for that judgement. However, all the Bulls had to be was 3 wins better than Wakefield to survive. 3 wins! And we haven't so far looked capable of being 1 win better. As the season started, punters were lauding Cummins and his squad as top eight, even top six. But, we have played like a bottom two! All that was needed was 3 wins more than Wakefield. And I don't want the apologist citing no money, small squad, excuses, excuses. 3 wins better than Wakefield, that was all it needed. The Fat Lady Sings
  • Score: 6

1:03am Thu 12 Jun 14

The Fat Lady Sings says...

What is the point of Mr Green pursuing this matter any further? By the time he has finished with due process and the club may get some, or all, of the points back, it will have been a long drawn out distraction and it will not matter an 'aporth. My suggestion to Mr Green is put your hand in your pocket and start signing players for this season and next, in whatever division that may be. Oh! And be on the look out for some new coaches; the ones in place have and will win nothing.
What is the point of Mr Green pursuing this matter any further? By the time he has finished with due process and the club may get some, or all, of the points back, it will have been a long drawn out distraction and it will not matter an 'aporth. My suggestion to Mr Green is put your hand in your pocket and start signing players for this season and next, in whatever division that may be. Oh! And be on the look out for some new coaches; the ones in place have and will win nothing. The Fat Lady Sings
  • Score: 4

1:07am Thu 12 Jun 14

portugalbull says...

Adeybull, Sadbull,Spanglishull
. Agree wholeheartedly, just 4 points to add.

1. 2 of the 3 solicitors acting on the independent panel work for a practice which is reported to do work for the RFL, so how independent does that look.
2. On the Bulls website the club say they may take legal action, presumably after receipt of the written report in 14 days. I hope they do because if it goes to court its probably the only way the truth will come out and we will find out. (It should be reported in the Posst)
3. Remember the Mason case the RFL were made to look idiots and it was swept under the carpet when proved they were lied to over the tapping up ofr Kopout so how much more embarrassing will this be.
4. How did Solly get the SL manager job without the job being advertised or as far as I can see who from the SL Chairmen conducted the interview.
Heads in the RFL should roll over the total handling from Hood era onward.
Adeybull, Sadbull,Spanglishull . Agree wholeheartedly, just 4 points to add. 1. 2 of the 3 solicitors acting on the independent panel work for a practice which is reported to do work for the RFL, so how independent does that look. 2. On the Bulls website the club say they may take legal action, presumably after receipt of the written report in 14 days. I hope they do because if it goes to court its probably the only way the truth will come out and we will find out. (It should be reported in the Posst) 3. Remember the Mason case the RFL were made to look idiots and it was swept under the carpet when proved they were lied to over the tapping up ofr Kopout so how much more embarrassing will this be. 4. How did Solly get the SL manager job without the job being advertised or as far as I can see who from the SL Chairmen conducted the interview. Heads in the RFL should roll over the total handling from Hood era onward. portugalbull
  • Score: 3

2:53am Thu 12 Jun 14

Sense99 says...

As a life long Bradford fan, who has been a season ticket holder for almost 50 years and obviously doesn't want the Bulls to be relegated, I have a few comments that are a reality on the situation:

1. I am sick and tired of people (mostly Bradford fans) saying that the points deduction was an RFL plan to relegate the Bulls. This is total ridiculous and makes no sense. Why would the RFL want to relegate one of the "bigger" clubs with one of the "larger" number of supporters. They would not. The RFL are simply trying to apply a set of rules consistently. After all the have previously docked Wakey 4 points and I think Hull as well.

2. Of course we should be docked 6 points. I thought we all knew that the rules were 4 points docked for going into administration and an extra 2 points for not making best attempts to pay the creditors back - which we have not. It matters not who was in charge at the time (Khan) or who called in his loan and forced the administration(Green
). Fact is we went into it. Full stop. So we should stop moaning, even if we now want to change the rules.

3.If we had not got docked 6 points the RFL would have been a complete laughing stock and rugby league would be a joke. So good on the RFL and the tribunal. No club is bigger than the game.

4. It is a shame that Green (and his merry men) have not put much effort and money into strengthening the team to ensure we stay up, rather than gambling on getting the points back (which as detailed above was such a stupid gamble). We keep hearing players are not available and we can't do this or that - but then this week we hear that Salford have got rid of 2 players to make room for a world class full back, and that Wakey have signed Smith at stand off to strengthen their squad. What have the Bradford powers done - average players on loan !.

5. I believe Green and co. have always planned that we would get related as proven by the complete lack of money injected. He is no better than Kahn or all the other recent "wannabes" - why buy a club, promise the fans you will invest money and do what I takes to avoid relegation - and then not bother. My cynical mind says they are just after the real estate at Odsal as other bidders were.

6. Lets stop blaming the RFL. Even though they are very poor at marketing, controlling and growing the game, and are idiots most of the time, they are not in anyway responsible for all the previous bad and current owners at Bradford - Hood, etc, etc. It is the owners past and present who should be ashamed for taking the fans hard earned money and misusing and wasting it.

7. We deserve to get relegated. When we do they whole club will implode.

We all know I is true !
As a life long Bradford fan, who has been a season ticket holder for almost 50 years and obviously doesn't want the Bulls to be relegated, I have a few comments that are a reality on the situation: 1. I am sick and tired of people (mostly Bradford fans) saying that the points deduction was an RFL plan to relegate the Bulls. This is total ridiculous and makes no sense. Why would the RFL want to relegate one of the "bigger" clubs with one of the "larger" number of supporters. They would not. The RFL are simply trying to apply a set of rules consistently. After all the have previously docked Wakey 4 points and I think Hull as well. 2. Of course we should be docked 6 points. I thought we all knew that the rules were 4 points docked for going into administration and an extra 2 points for not making best attempts to pay the creditors back - which we have not. It matters not who was in charge at the time (Khan) or who called in his loan and forced the administration(Green ). Fact is we went into it. Full stop. So we should stop moaning, even if we now want to change the rules. 3.If we had not got docked 6 points the RFL would have been a complete laughing stock and rugby league would be a joke. So good on the RFL and the tribunal. No club is bigger than the game. 4. It is a shame that Green (and his merry men) have not put much effort and money into strengthening the team to ensure we stay up, rather than gambling on getting the points back (which as detailed above was such a stupid gamble). We keep hearing players are not available and we can't do this or that - but then this week we hear that Salford have got rid of 2 players to make room for a world class full back, and that Wakey have signed Smith at stand off to strengthen their squad. What have the Bradford powers done - average players on loan !. 5. I believe Green and co. have always planned that we would get related as proven by the complete lack of money injected. He is no better than Kahn or all the other recent "wannabes" - why buy a club, promise the fans you will invest money and do what I takes to avoid relegation - and then not bother. My cynical mind says they are just after the real estate at Odsal as other bidders were. 6. Lets stop blaming the RFL. Even though they are very poor at marketing, controlling and growing the game, and are idiots most of the time, they are not in anyway responsible for all the previous bad and current owners at Bradford - Hood, etc, etc. It is the owners past and present who should be ashamed for taking the fans hard earned money and misusing and wasting it. 7. We deserve to get relegated. When we do they whole club will implode. We all know I is true ! Sense99
  • Score: 13

6:57am Thu 12 Jun 14

Thee Voice of Reason says...

Good post Sense99. Problem is many don't like the truth and some would think that breaking of the rules should be ignored.
These are the same people who would be screaming from rooftops for Wakefield to have the same deductions if they were to enter admin tomorrow.

Khan threw away putting things right in a none relegation year, when the trimming of the squad and a full rebuild should have been done. This is what will ultimately will relegate the Bulls as costs were unsustainable and thats what forced a second admin. Players weren't getting paid, HMRC weren't being paid and yet some live with the fairies thinking admin was just to take power of the club. That maybe a minor factor true but public records clearly show a winding up order placed on the club by HMRC and the real threat of liquidation.
Good post Sense99. Problem is many don't like the truth and some would think that breaking of the rules should be ignored. These are the same people who would be screaming from rooftops for Wakefield to have the same deductions if they were to enter admin tomorrow. Khan threw away putting things right in a none relegation year, when the trimming of the squad and a full rebuild should have been done. This is what will ultimately will relegate the Bulls as costs were unsustainable and thats what forced a second admin. Players weren't getting paid, HMRC weren't being paid and yet some live with the fairies thinking admin was just to take power of the club. That maybe a minor factor true but public records clearly show a winding up order placed on the club by HMRC and the real threat of liquidation. Thee Voice of Reason
  • Score: 4

7:03am Thu 12 Jun 14

Sad bull says...

Sense99 wrote:
As a life long Bradford fan, who has been a season ticket holder for almost 50 years and obviously doesn't want the Bulls to be relegated, I have a few comments that are a reality on the situation:

1. I am sick and tired of people (mostly Bradford fans) saying that the points deduction was an RFL plan to relegate the Bulls. This is total ridiculous and makes no sense. Why would the RFL want to relegate one of the "bigger" clubs with one of the "larger" number of supporters. They would not. The RFL are simply trying to apply a set of rules consistently. After all the have previously docked Wakey 4 points and I think Hull as well.

2. Of course we should be docked 6 points. I thought we all knew that the rules were 4 points docked for going into administration and an extra 2 points for not making best attempts to pay the creditors back - which we have not. It matters not who was in charge at the time (Khan) or who called in his loan and forced the administration(Green

). Fact is we went into it. Full stop. So we should stop moaning, even if we now want to change the rules.

3.If we had not got docked 6 points the RFL would have been a complete laughing stock and rugby league would be a joke. So good on the RFL and the tribunal. No club is bigger than the game.

4. It is a shame that Green (and his merry men) have not put much effort and money into strengthening the team to ensure we stay up, rather than gambling on getting the points back (which as detailed above was such a stupid gamble). We keep hearing players are not available and we can't do this or that - but then this week we hear that Salford have got rid of 2 players to make room for a world class full back, and that Wakey have signed Smith at stand off to strengthen their squad. What have the Bradford powers done - average players on loan !.

5. I believe Green and co. have always planned that we would get related as proven by the complete lack of money injected. He is no better than Kahn or all the other recent "wannabes" - why buy a club, promise the fans you will invest money and do what I takes to avoid relegation - and then not bother. My cynical mind says they are just after the real estate at Odsal as other bidders were.

6. Lets stop blaming the RFL. Even though they are very poor at marketing, controlling and growing the game, and are idiots most of the time, they are not in anyway responsible for all the previous bad and current owners at Bradford - Hood, etc, etc. It is the owners past and present who should be ashamed for taking the fans hard earned money and misusing and wasting it.

7. We deserve to get relegated. When we do they whole club will implode.

We all know I is true !
You are missing the point that Adeybull and others are making and that is Administration was instigated, if not by the RFL as a whole, then by Rimmer and Solly acting on their behalf.

I firmly believe Moore and co had deals with all creditors except Khan and HMRC would have been paid. I also believe Mr. green was in agreement with this at the time. The RFL was involved every step of the way.

There was at Rimmer and Solly's suggestion a per-pack in place and this had one purpose, to get rid of Khan.

I am convinced that Moore and co were told " no points deduction" yet the RFL renaged on this and this is why some of us feel it is unfair and still needs an explanation.

To say six points deduction for entering administration is correct or not in this case completely misses the point.

Is it correct that the RFL can say one thing and do another without anybody challenging it ?

You are right though it will probably be swept under the carpet unless somebody who KNOWS the facts speaks out.
[quote][p][bold]Sense99[/bold] wrote: As a life long Bradford fan, who has been a season ticket holder for almost 50 years and obviously doesn't want the Bulls to be relegated, I have a few comments that are a reality on the situation: 1. I am sick and tired of people (mostly Bradford fans) saying that the points deduction was an RFL plan to relegate the Bulls. This is total ridiculous and makes no sense. Why would the RFL want to relegate one of the "bigger" clubs with one of the "larger" number of supporters. They would not. The RFL are simply trying to apply a set of rules consistently. After all the have previously docked Wakey 4 points and I think Hull as well. 2. Of course we should be docked 6 points. I thought we all knew that the rules were 4 points docked for going into administration and an extra 2 points for not making best attempts to pay the creditors back - which we have not. It matters not who was in charge at the time (Khan) or who called in his loan and forced the administration(Green ). Fact is we went into it. Full stop. So we should stop moaning, even if we now want to change the rules. 3.If we had not got docked 6 points the RFL would have been a complete laughing stock and rugby league would be a joke. So good on the RFL and the tribunal. No club is bigger than the game. 4. It is a shame that Green (and his merry men) have not put much effort and money into strengthening the team to ensure we stay up, rather than gambling on getting the points back (which as detailed above was such a stupid gamble). We keep hearing players are not available and we can't do this or that - but then this week we hear that Salford have got rid of 2 players to make room for a world class full back, and that Wakey have signed Smith at stand off to strengthen their squad. What have the Bradford powers done - average players on loan !. 5. I believe Green and co. have always planned that we would get related as proven by the complete lack of money injected. He is no better than Kahn or all the other recent "wannabes" - why buy a club, promise the fans you will invest money and do what I takes to avoid relegation - and then not bother. My cynical mind says they are just after the real estate at Odsal as other bidders were. 6. Lets stop blaming the RFL. Even though they are very poor at marketing, controlling and growing the game, and are idiots most of the time, they are not in anyway responsible for all the previous bad and current owners at Bradford - Hood, etc, etc. It is the owners past and present who should be ashamed for taking the fans hard earned money and misusing and wasting it. 7. We deserve to get relegated. When we do they whole club will implode. We all know I is true ![/p][/quote]You are missing the point that Adeybull and others are making and that is Administration was instigated, if not by the RFL as a whole, then by Rimmer and Solly acting on their behalf. I firmly believe Moore and co had deals with all creditors except Khan and HMRC would have been paid. I also believe Mr. green was in agreement with this at the time. The RFL was involved every step of the way. There was at Rimmer and Solly's suggestion a per-pack in place and this had one purpose, to get rid of Khan. I am convinced that Moore and co were told " no points deduction" yet the RFL renaged on this and this is why some of us feel it is unfair and still needs an explanation. To say six points deduction for entering administration is correct or not in this case completely misses the point. Is it correct that the RFL can say one thing and do another without anybody challenging it ? You are right though it will probably be swept under the carpet unless somebody who KNOWS the facts speaks out. Sad bull
  • Score: 0

7:11am Thu 12 Jun 14

Thee Voice of Reason says...

An independent panel has just ruled on the decision yet you still think the RFL are to blame.
The administrators have compiled a list of £1.4m in creditors, winding up orders were issued and players had been paid late month after month and you think creditors would have been repaid.
Khan made a complete mess of things as can be seen. Remember Whitcut saying a winding up order previous to the one that caused admin was explained as an admin error and how non payment of wages was blamed on the same thing.
The think you need to ask about the RFL is how they passed Khan fit and proper in the first place.
An independent panel has just ruled on the decision yet you still think the RFL are to blame. The administrators have compiled a list of £1.4m in creditors, winding up orders were issued and players had been paid late month after month and you think creditors would have been repaid. Khan made a complete mess of things as can be seen. Remember Whitcut saying a winding up order previous to the one that caused admin was explained as an admin error and how non payment of wages was blamed on the same thing. The think you need to ask about the RFL is how they passed Khan fit and proper in the first place. Thee Voice of Reason
  • Score: 3

7:44am Thu 12 Jun 14

The Fat Lady Sings says...

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
An independent panel has just ruled on the decision yet you still think the RFL are to blame.
The administrators have compiled a list of £1.4m in creditors, winding up orders were issued and players had been paid late month after month and you think creditors would have been repaid.
Khan made a complete mess of things as can be seen. Remember Whitcut saying a winding up order previous to the one that caused admin was explained as an admin error and how non payment of wages was blamed on the same thing.
The think you need to ask about the RFL is how they passed Khan fit and proper in the first place.
I don't think the RFL have been "whiter than white" in this affair but is highly unlikely that we will ever get to know the full truth. Let's move on. It is still mathematically possible to avoid relegation but all this distraction will not help. It is action on the pitch that is required and an exceptional man-motivator to move into top gear. Are you up to it Mr Cummins?
[quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: An independent panel has just ruled on the decision yet you still think the RFL are to blame. The administrators have compiled a list of £1.4m in creditors, winding up orders were issued and players had been paid late month after month and you think creditors would have been repaid. Khan made a complete mess of things as can be seen. Remember Whitcut saying a winding up order previous to the one that caused admin was explained as an admin error and how non payment of wages was blamed on the same thing. The think you need to ask about the RFL is how they passed Khan fit and proper in the first place.[/p][/quote]I don't think the RFL have been "whiter than white" in this affair but is highly unlikely that we will ever get to know the full truth. Let's move on. It is still mathematically possible to avoid relegation but all this distraction will not help. It is action on the pitch that is required and an exceptional man-motivator to move into top gear. Are you up to it Mr Cummins? The Fat Lady Sings
  • Score: 1

7:48am Thu 12 Jun 14

spanglishbull.uk says...

This morning U.E.F.A. upheld an appeal by Manchester City on the original decision to force them to name a smaller squad for next years European Leagues championships.The appeal was upheld because "You can not punish the players and supporters of the club for the decisions made by the Board of Directors,the Players have contracts that in law have to be honoured" Now compare that with the autocratic way the R.F.L deal with their business.In secret,behind closed doors.If I was a player at the Bulls with the livelihood of losing my job and possibly more I would be seeking Legal advice about the situation with the possibility of suing the R.F.L.Maybe then this useless,lying regime at Red Hall would be ousted from office and people with integrity installed. And before you jump in T.V.O.R. I am not blaming them for the situation at Odsal.My argument is the way they have conducted the whole affair.It is now June,this situation should have been finalised months ago.There again the R.F.L probably needed the time to concoct their answers and excuses.
This morning U.E.F.A. upheld an appeal by Manchester City on the original decision to force them to name a smaller squad for next years European Leagues championships.The appeal was upheld because "You can not punish the players and supporters of the club for the decisions made by the Board of Directors,the Players have contracts that in law have to be honoured" Now compare that with the autocratic way the R.F.L deal with their business.In secret,behind closed doors.If I was a player at the Bulls with the livelihood of losing my job and possibly more I would be seeking Legal advice about the situation with the possibility of suing the R.F.L.Maybe then this useless,lying regime at Red Hall would be ousted from office and people with integrity installed. And before you jump in T.V.O.R. I am not blaming them for the situation at Odsal.My argument is the way they have conducted the whole affair.It is now June,this situation should have been finalised months ago.There again the R.F.L probably needed the time to concoct their answers and excuses. spanglishbull.uk
  • Score: 1

7:54am Thu 12 Jun 14

Videoref says...

Sense99 wrote:
As a life long Bradford fan, who has been a season ticket holder for almost 50 years and obviously doesn't want the Bulls to be relegated, I have a few comments that are a reality on the situation:

1. I am sick and tired of people (mostly Bradford fans) saying that the points deduction was an RFL plan to relegate the Bulls. This is total ridiculous and makes no sense. Why would the RFL want to relegate one of the "bigger" clubs with one of the "larger" number of supporters. They would not. The RFL are simply trying to apply a set of rules consistently. After all the have previously docked Wakey 4 points and I think Hull as well.

2. Of course we should be docked 6 points. I thought we all knew that the rules were 4 points docked for going into administration and an extra 2 points for not making best attempts to pay the creditors back - which we have not. It matters not who was in charge at the time (Khan) or who called in his loan and forced the administration(Green

). Fact is we went into it. Full stop. So we should stop moaning, even if we now want to change the rules.

3.If we had not got docked 6 points the RFL would have been a complete laughing stock and rugby league would be a joke. So good on the RFL and the tribunal. No club is bigger than the game.

4. It is a shame that Green (and his merry men) have not put much effort and money into strengthening the team to ensure we stay up, rather than gambling on getting the points back (which as detailed above was such a stupid gamble). We keep hearing players are not available and we can't do this or that - but then this week we hear that Salford have got rid of 2 players to make room for a world class full back, and that Wakey have signed Smith at stand off to strengthen their squad. What have the Bradford powers done - average players on loan !.

5. I believe Green and co. have always planned that we would get related as proven by the complete lack of money injected. He is no better than Kahn or all the other recent "wannabes" - why buy a club, promise the fans you will invest money and do what I takes to avoid relegation - and then not bother. My cynical mind says they are just after the real estate at Odsal as other bidders were.

6. Lets stop blaming the RFL. Even though they are very poor at marketing, controlling and growing the game, and are idiots most of the time, they are not in anyway responsible for all the previous bad and current owners at Bradford - Hood, etc, etc. It is the owners past and present who should be ashamed for taking the fans hard earned money and misusing and wasting it.

7. We deserve to get relegated. When we do they whole club will implode.

We all know I is true !
Good post-objective sense at last. This fiasco is of our own making, nobody elses
[quote][p][bold]Sense99[/bold] wrote: As a life long Bradford fan, who has been a season ticket holder for almost 50 years and obviously doesn't want the Bulls to be relegated, I have a few comments that are a reality on the situation: 1. I am sick and tired of people (mostly Bradford fans) saying that the points deduction was an RFL plan to relegate the Bulls. This is total ridiculous and makes no sense. Why would the RFL want to relegate one of the "bigger" clubs with one of the "larger" number of supporters. They would not. The RFL are simply trying to apply a set of rules consistently. After all the have previously docked Wakey 4 points and I think Hull as well. 2. Of course we should be docked 6 points. I thought we all knew that the rules were 4 points docked for going into administration and an extra 2 points for not making best attempts to pay the creditors back - which we have not. It matters not who was in charge at the time (Khan) or who called in his loan and forced the administration(Green ). Fact is we went into it. Full stop. So we should stop moaning, even if we now want to change the rules. 3.If we had not got docked 6 points the RFL would have been a complete laughing stock and rugby league would be a joke. So good on the RFL and the tribunal. No club is bigger than the game. 4. It is a shame that Green (and his merry men) have not put much effort and money into strengthening the team to ensure we stay up, rather than gambling on getting the points back (which as detailed above was such a stupid gamble). We keep hearing players are not available and we can't do this or that - but then this week we hear that Salford have got rid of 2 players to make room for a world class full back, and that Wakey have signed Smith at stand off to strengthen their squad. What have the Bradford powers done - average players on loan !. 5. I believe Green and co. have always planned that we would get related as proven by the complete lack of money injected. He is no better than Kahn or all the other recent "wannabes" - why buy a club, promise the fans you will invest money and do what I takes to avoid relegation - and then not bother. My cynical mind says they are just after the real estate at Odsal as other bidders were. 6. Lets stop blaming the RFL. Even though they are very poor at marketing, controlling and growing the game, and are idiots most of the time, they are not in anyway responsible for all the previous bad and current owners at Bradford - Hood, etc, etc. It is the owners past and present who should be ashamed for taking the fans hard earned money and misusing and wasting it. 7. We deserve to get relegated. When we do they whole club will implode. We all know I is true ![/p][/quote]Good post-objective sense at last. This fiasco is of our own making, nobody elses Videoref
  • Score: 4

8:05am Thu 12 Jun 14

BD16 says...

spanglishbull.uk wrote:
This morning U.E.F.A. upheld an appeal by Manchester City on the original decision to force them to name a smaller squad for next years European Leagues championships.The appeal was upheld because "You can not punish the players and supporters of the club for the decisions made by the Board of Directors,the Players have contracts that in law have to be honoured" Now compare that with the autocratic way the R.F.L deal with their business.In secret,behind closed doors.If I was a player at the Bulls with the livelihood of losing my job and possibly more I would be seeking Legal advice about the situation with the possibility of suing the R.F.L.Maybe then this useless,lying regime at Red Hall would be ousted from office and people with integrity installed. And before you jump in T.V.O.R. I am not blaming them for the situation at Odsal.My argument is the way they have conducted the whole affair.It is now June,this situation should have been finalised months ago.There again the R.F.L probably needed the time to concoct their answers and excuses.
I haven't read the story about Man City but if what you say is true then UEFA have got it badly wrong. The financial fair play rules were brought in to stop wealthy owners buying success with unlimited funds and to try establish some semblance of financial responsibility. The board of directors make decisions on behalf of the club and when those decisions impact on the players and supporters then they should take the blame and not the rules they have deliberately broken.
[quote][p][bold]spanglishbull.uk[/bold] wrote: This morning U.E.F.A. upheld an appeal by Manchester City on the original decision to force them to name a smaller squad for next years European Leagues championships.The appeal was upheld because "You can not punish the players and supporters of the club for the decisions made by the Board of Directors,the Players have contracts that in law have to be honoured" Now compare that with the autocratic way the R.F.L deal with their business.In secret,behind closed doors.If I was a player at the Bulls with the livelihood of losing my job and possibly more I would be seeking Legal advice about the situation with the possibility of suing the R.F.L.Maybe then this useless,lying regime at Red Hall would be ousted from office and people with integrity installed. And before you jump in T.V.O.R. I am not blaming them for the situation at Odsal.My argument is the way they have conducted the whole affair.It is now June,this situation should have been finalised months ago.There again the R.F.L probably needed the time to concoct their answers and excuses.[/p][/quote]I haven't read the story about Man City but if what you say is true then UEFA have got it badly wrong. The financial fair play rules were brought in to stop wealthy owners buying success with unlimited funds and to try establish some semblance of financial responsibility. The board of directors make decisions on behalf of the club and when those decisions impact on the players and supporters then they should take the blame and not the rules they have deliberately broken. BD16
  • Score: -1

8:11am Thu 12 Jun 14

Thee Voice of Reason says...

Bradford City overspent and dropped 3 divisions as a consequence. Bulls will drop a division and probably be promoted back the following year.
Time to let this appeal drop, accept the punishment and look forward rather than backwards.
A stop in the lower leagues isn't as bad as some make out.
Bradford City overspent and dropped 3 divisions as a consequence. Bulls will drop a division and probably be promoted back the following year. Time to let this appeal drop, accept the punishment and look forward rather than backwards. A stop in the lower leagues isn't as bad as some make out. Thee Voice of Reason
  • Score: 1

8:16am Thu 12 Jun 14

raisemeup says...

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
Awaits BradfordBronco, Raisemeup and co to say it's all the RFL's fault, how 2,500 travelling supports on tap have disappeared etc.

Rules were broken and consequences are punishments were dished out. The finger of blame is squarely pointed at Khan and Sutcliffe who made no attempt to cut costs and work on the basis all will be alright.

What is being done now should have been done last year, it wasn't and now there is a relegation year to make the medicine twice as hard to swallow.

The decision is the right one in my eyes, just those who caused this aren't the ones who are going to suffer off the back of it.
Not so TVoR.
What you fail to realise is that in a battle there is Protagonists and Antagonists. plus those spectators who sit on the sidelines telling the combatants they are wrong all the time!
You are that spectator of other peoples demise , discomfort. and in some cases misery.
It doesn't matter what went before and who is to blame..the arbitration is now, and it has been found to be patently wrong!
Firstly how can it be an independant panel when two thirds of those in judgement are reatained by the RFL as legal advisers. In law Arbiters are without any constraints to the parties under arbitration, ie without deference to the parties concerned. If you actually retain a company, would you say that they would rule against you if the going got tough?
the fact that the appeal process had not reached a sufficient criteria for an appeal in itself leads a cynic, like myself, to ask is this the point when a cover up was needed to ensure the ruling body were not left with egg on face?

Anyway the people on here will rejoice that I have found out who you are, and will publish details very soon...OK might as well tell them your name "WALTER MITTY".
[quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: Awaits BradfordBronco, Raisemeup and co to say it's all the RFL's fault, how 2,500 travelling supports on tap have disappeared etc. Rules were broken and consequences are punishments were dished out. The finger of blame is squarely pointed at Khan and Sutcliffe who made no attempt to cut costs and work on the basis all will be alright. What is being done now should have been done last year, it wasn't and now there is a relegation year to make the medicine twice as hard to swallow. The decision is the right one in my eyes, just those who caused this aren't the ones who are going to suffer off the back of it.[/p][/quote]Not so TVoR. What you fail to realise is that in a battle there is Protagonists and Antagonists. plus those spectators who sit on the sidelines telling the combatants they are wrong all the time! You are that spectator of other peoples demise , discomfort. and in some cases misery. It doesn't matter what went before and who is to blame..the arbitration is now, and it has been found to be patently wrong! Firstly how can it be an independant panel when two thirds of those in judgement are reatained by the RFL as legal advisers. In law Arbiters are without any constraints to the parties under arbitration, ie without deference to the parties concerned. If you actually retain a company, would you say that they would rule against you if the going got tough? the fact that the appeal process had not reached a sufficient criteria for an appeal in itself leads a cynic, like myself, to ask is this the point when a cover up was needed to ensure the ruling body were not left with egg on face? Anyway the people on here will rejoice that I have found out who you are, and will publish details very soon...OK might as well tell them your name "WALTER MITTY". raisemeup
  • Score: 0

8:31am Thu 12 Jun 14

spanglishbull.uk says...

BD16,
I agree with your sentiments re splashing out big money to buy success but at the end of the day the players and supporters do not make these decisions.I fully agree footballers are overpaid prima donnas but I can imagine what a kerfuffle there would be if the F.A. relegated Man.City. thus forcing the players to take a huge drop in wages as a result.Okay footballers can move on and command better wages.Rugby League is different.If you are relegated from S.L. as a player in all probability you will lose your livelihood,remember most of R.L. is part time.Now if that was you would you be happy to see your livelihood disappear because of mismanagement by your Board of Directors.I agree the clubs should be punished but not the employees.I R.L. a big fine should be a deterrent to stop clubs from overspending monies they have not got.Also remember,this year relegation has been introduced which is also another deterrent for future years.Once again though the decision on Relegation and promotion was taken way after the Bulls found themselves in the situation they are now in.
BD16, I agree with your sentiments re splashing out big money to buy success but at the end of the day the players and supporters do not make these decisions.I fully agree footballers are overpaid prima donnas but I can imagine what a kerfuffle there would be if the F.A. relegated Man.City. thus forcing the players to take a huge drop in wages as a result.Okay footballers can move on and command better wages.Rugby League is different.If you are relegated from S.L. as a player in all probability you will lose your livelihood,remember most of R.L. is part time.Now if that was you would you be happy to see your livelihood disappear because of mismanagement by your Board of Directors.I agree the clubs should be punished but not the employees.I R.L. a big fine should be a deterrent to stop clubs from overspending monies they have not got.Also remember,this year relegation has been introduced which is also another deterrent for future years.Once again though the decision on Relegation and promotion was taken way after the Bulls found themselves in the situation they are now in. spanglishbull.uk
  • Score: 0

8:34am Thu 12 Jun 14

Thee Voice of Reason says...

raisemeup wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
Awaits BradfordBronco, Raisemeup and co to say it's all the RFL's fault, how 2,500 travelling supports on tap have disappeared etc.

Rules were broken and consequences are punishments were dished out. The finger of blame is squarely pointed at Khan and Sutcliffe who made no attempt to cut costs and work on the basis all will be alright.

What is being done now should have been done last year, it wasn't and now there is a relegation year to make the medicine twice as hard to swallow.

The decision is the right one in my eyes, just those who caused this aren't the ones who are going to suffer off the back of it.
Not so TVoR.
What you fail to realise is that in a battle there is Protagonists and Antagonists. plus those spectators who sit on the sidelines telling the combatants they are wrong all the time!
You are that spectator of other peoples demise , discomfort. and in some cases misery.
It doesn't matter what went before and who is to blame..the arbitration is now, and it has been found to be patently wrong!
Firstly how can it be an independant panel when two thirds of those in judgement are reatained by the RFL as legal advisers. In law Arbiters are without any constraints to the parties under arbitration, ie without deference to the parties concerned. If you actually retain a company, would you say that they would rule against you if the going got tough?
the fact that the appeal process had not reached a sufficient criteria for an appeal in itself leads a cynic, like myself, to ask is this the point when a cover up was needed to ensure the ruling body were not left with egg on face?

Anyway the people on here will rejoice that I have found out who you are, and will publish details very soon...OK might as well tell them your name "WALTER MITTY".
I'll level with you. The Bulls downfall, it is all of their own making. You keep having a go at the RFL, but the RFL wouldn't even be involved if the Bulls hadn't been mismanaged so wrecklessly in the past.
[quote][p][bold]raisemeup[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: Awaits BradfordBronco, Raisemeup and co to say it's all the RFL's fault, how 2,500 travelling supports on tap have disappeared etc. Rules were broken and consequences are punishments were dished out. The finger of blame is squarely pointed at Khan and Sutcliffe who made no attempt to cut costs and work on the basis all will be alright. What is being done now should have been done last year, it wasn't and now there is a relegation year to make the medicine twice as hard to swallow. The decision is the right one in my eyes, just those who caused this aren't the ones who are going to suffer off the back of it.[/p][/quote]Not so TVoR. What you fail to realise is that in a battle there is Protagonists and Antagonists. plus those spectators who sit on the sidelines telling the combatants they are wrong all the time! You are that spectator of other peoples demise , discomfort. and in some cases misery. It doesn't matter what went before and who is to blame..the arbitration is now, and it has been found to be patently wrong! Firstly how can it be an independant panel when two thirds of those in judgement are reatained by the RFL as legal advisers. In law Arbiters are without any constraints to the parties under arbitration, ie without deference to the parties concerned. If you actually retain a company, would you say that they would rule against you if the going got tough? the fact that the appeal process had not reached a sufficient criteria for an appeal in itself leads a cynic, like myself, to ask is this the point when a cover up was needed to ensure the ruling body were not left with egg on face? Anyway the people on here will rejoice that I have found out who you are, and will publish details very soon...OK might as well tell them your name "WALTER MITTY".[/p][/quote]I'll level with you. The Bulls downfall, it is all of their own making. You keep having a go at the RFL, but the RFL wouldn't even be involved if the Bulls hadn't been mismanaged so wrecklessly in the past. Thee Voice of Reason
  • Score: 2

8:39am Thu 12 Jun 14

northern pig says...

nosher wrote:
In the next few weeks the exodus from the clubs better players will start. It wont take long lol
Gale to Cas!!!! heard it last night!!
[quote][p][bold]nosher[/bold] wrote: In the next few weeks the exodus from the clubs better players will start. It wont take long lol[/p][/quote]Gale to Cas!!!! heard it last night!! northern pig
  • Score: 3

1:28pm Thu 12 Jun 14

raisemeup says...

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
raisemeup wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
Awaits BradfordBronco, Raisemeup and co to say it's all the RFL's fault, how 2,500 travelling supports on tap have disappeared etc.

Rules were broken and consequences are punishments were dished out. The finger of blame is squarely pointed at Khan and Sutcliffe who made no attempt to cut costs and work on the basis all will be alright.

What is being done now should have been done last year, it wasn't and now there is a relegation year to make the medicine twice as hard to swallow.

The decision is the right one in my eyes, just those who caused this aren't the ones who are going to suffer off the back of it.
Not so TVoR.
What you fail to realise is that in a battle there is Protagonists and Antagonists. plus those spectators who sit on the sidelines telling the combatants they are wrong all the time!
You are that spectator of other peoples demise , discomfort. and in some cases misery.
It doesn't matter what went before and who is to blame..the arbitration is now, and it has been found to be patently wrong!
Firstly how can it be an independant panel when two thirds of those in judgement are reatained by the RFL as legal advisers. In law Arbiters are without any constraints to the parties under arbitration, ie without deference to the parties concerned. If you actually retain a company, would you say that they would rule against you if the going got tough?
the fact that the appeal process had not reached a sufficient criteria for an appeal in itself leads a cynic, like myself, to ask is this the point when a cover up was needed to ensure the ruling body were not left with egg on face?

Anyway the people on here will rejoice that I have found out who you are, and will publish details very soon...OK might as well tell them your name "WALTER MITTY".
I'll level with you. The Bulls downfall, it is all of their own making. You keep having a go at the RFL, but the RFL wouldn't even be involved if the Bulls hadn't been mismanaged so wrecklessly in the past.
All I know is that every time we have attempted to put things right, and to make all the cut backs that resulted in redundancies and the downgrading of the club...there has been the spectre of the RFL in the mix of any positive action, dealing their brand of procrastination that ultimately cost more jobs and future livelihoods.
And you expect the majority of "Bulls" supporters to be supportive of them?
Recklessly is what you meant, Wreck is what the RFL have helped to achieve at the Bulls.
[quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]raisemeup[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: Awaits BradfordBronco, Raisemeup and co to say it's all the RFL's fault, how 2,500 travelling supports on tap have disappeared etc. Rules were broken and consequences are punishments were dished out. The finger of blame is squarely pointed at Khan and Sutcliffe who made no attempt to cut costs and work on the basis all will be alright. What is being done now should have been done last year, it wasn't and now there is a relegation year to make the medicine twice as hard to swallow. The decision is the right one in my eyes, just those who caused this aren't the ones who are going to suffer off the back of it.[/p][/quote]Not so TVoR. What you fail to realise is that in a battle there is Protagonists and Antagonists. plus those spectators who sit on the sidelines telling the combatants they are wrong all the time! You are that spectator of other peoples demise , discomfort. and in some cases misery. It doesn't matter what went before and who is to blame..the arbitration is now, and it has been found to be patently wrong! Firstly how can it be an independant panel when two thirds of those in judgement are reatained by the RFL as legal advisers. In law Arbiters are without any constraints to the parties under arbitration, ie without deference to the parties concerned. If you actually retain a company, would you say that they would rule against you if the going got tough? the fact that the appeal process had not reached a sufficient criteria for an appeal in itself leads a cynic, like myself, to ask is this the point when a cover up was needed to ensure the ruling body were not left with egg on face? Anyway the people on here will rejoice that I have found out who you are, and will publish details very soon...OK might as well tell them your name "WALTER MITTY".[/p][/quote]I'll level with you. The Bulls downfall, it is all of their own making. You keep having a go at the RFL, but the RFL wouldn't even be involved if the Bulls hadn't been mismanaged so wrecklessly in the past.[/p][/quote]All I know is that every time we have attempted to put things right, and to make all the cut backs that resulted in redundancies and the downgrading of the club...there has been the spectre of the RFL in the mix of any positive action, dealing their brand of procrastination that ultimately cost more jobs and future livelihoods. And you expect the majority of "Bulls" supporters to be supportive of them? Recklessly is what you meant, Wreck is what the RFL have helped to achieve at the Bulls. raisemeup
  • Score: 0

2:46pm Thu 12 Jun 14

The Fat Lady Sings says...

northern pig wrote:
nosher wrote:
In the next few weeks the exodus from the clubs better players will start. It wont take long lol
Gale to Cas!!!! heard it last night!!
Cummins to Leeds Academy!
[quote][p][bold]northern pig[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]nosher[/bold] wrote: In the next few weeks the exodus from the clubs better players will start. It wont take long lol[/p][/quote]Gale to Cas!!!! heard it last night!![/p][/quote]Cummins to Leeds Academy! The Fat Lady Sings
  • Score: -1

3:03pm Thu 12 Jun 14

portugalbull says...

All on here stating Bulls management at fault are undoubtably correct, however it is the RFL's part in this saga that needs explaining.
1. Solly was supposed to check the finances of every club before licences were renewed. This clearly was not done correctly as months later Hood needed 1millon to keep afloat, this despite the RFL paying £1.25million for the lease. (A fact that did not come out until after the fans found £ 0.5 million.)
The buying of the lease caused the bank to foreclose as it then had no collateral.
2. Along came OK who could not pay creditors so offered to forgo Sky monies of about the same amount. The RFL instead of paying the creditors took the monies and gave it to the other clubs. They also took 4points which if consistent with previous administrations (London) would have been nil when creditors are paid
3. What action did the RFL take when the Mason court case proved Kopout had been tapped up and they had been lied to? None.
4. What monitoring of OK running of the club was carried out? Again part of Solly's job. He had the perks as I saw him in Perpignan with OK and Wood.
5. When OK stepped aside what role did the RFL (Solly and Rimmer) have when attending meetings with Moore and co. Who's suggestion was it to go to admin when HMCR issued winding up order. And what had they put in place to enable the sale to Moore and co with in the space of the same morning. What was agreed for Moore to issue his mistaken statement of "no points deduction"?
6. When Moore and co walked away and the process of finding new owners was in place why was the other bids unacceptable to the extent that Lamb was announced the winner only to be given 24hours to find a £1million bond and then Green announced the only bid that met the RFL criteria. Does Mr Green have such a bond?
From the fans point of view the whole thing stinks and its answers from the RFL that we need and that's why we'll keep going on until someone in the know tells the truth.
All on here stating Bulls management at fault are undoubtably correct, however it is the RFL's part in this saga that needs explaining. 1. Solly was supposed to check the finances of every club before licences were renewed. This clearly was not done correctly as months later Hood needed 1millon to keep afloat, this despite the RFL paying £1.25million for the lease. (A fact that did not come out until after the fans found £ 0.5 million.) The buying of the lease caused the bank to foreclose as it then had no collateral. 2. Along came OK who could not pay creditors so offered to forgo Sky monies of about the same amount. The RFL instead of paying the creditors took the monies and gave it to the other clubs. They also took 4points which if consistent with previous administrations (London) would have been nil when creditors are paid 3. What action did the RFL take when the Mason court case proved Kopout had been tapped up and they had been lied to? None. 4. What monitoring of OK running of the club was carried out? Again part of Solly's job. He had the perks as I saw him in Perpignan with OK and Wood. 5. When OK stepped aside what role did the RFL (Solly and Rimmer) have when attending meetings with Moore and co. Who's suggestion was it to go to admin when HMCR issued winding up order. And what had they put in place to enable the sale to Moore and co with in the space of the same morning. What was agreed for Moore to issue his mistaken statement of "no points deduction"? 6. When Moore and co walked away and the process of finding new owners was in place why was the other bids unacceptable to the extent that Lamb was announced the winner only to be given 24hours to find a £1million bond and then Green announced the only bid that met the RFL criteria. Does Mr Green have such a bond? From the fans point of view the whole thing stinks and its answers from the RFL that we need and that's why we'll keep going on until someone in the know tells the truth. portugalbull
  • Score: 2

9:33pm Thu 12 Jun 14

Mixter says...

I for one am glad its now happened to one of the 'top flight'. Keighley (mentioned in dispatches earlier) got shafted, along with one or two other clubs at the birth of Super League, and it was all swept under the carpet, because the 'big boys' were getting their Sky money, and sod the rest who were on the far side of the draw-bridge.

Its also been suggested anything to do with the Bulls is surrounded by 'failure'. Er, hello - look at the City in general. Says it all really. I have sympathy with the genuine supporters, but, the RFL doesnt give a $hit about supporters, and never has.
I for one am glad its now happened to one of the 'top flight'. Keighley (mentioned in dispatches earlier) got shafted, along with one or two other clubs at the birth of Super League, and it was all swept under the carpet, because the 'big boys' were getting their Sky money, and sod the rest who were on the far side of the draw-bridge. Its also been suggested anything to do with the Bulls is surrounded by 'failure'. Er, hello - look at the City in general. Says it all really. I have sympathy with the genuine supporters, but, the RFL doesnt give a $hit about supporters, and never has. Mixter
  • Score: -1

11:35pm Thu 12 Jun 14

bradfordbronco says...

TVOR Yet again I ask you a question and you haven't answered. I'll ask you again and add two more questions.

1. What the hell has a Bradford Bulls story got to do with you?
2. Why do you waste your time following it?
3. Why do you keep going on and on and on and on about mistakes made in the past by previous owners as though nobody else has even realised they happened. Its kind of a given that we all understand what has happened before. We all lived through it. Why do just keep repeating that mistakes have been made. WE ALREADY KNOW THAT. YOU ARE NOT ADDED ANYTHING TO THE DEBATE
TVOR Yet again I ask you a question and you haven't answered. I'll ask you again and add two more questions. 1. What the hell has a Bradford Bulls story got to do with you? 2. Why do you waste your time following it? 3. Why do you keep going on and on and on and on about mistakes made in the past by previous owners as though nobody else has even realised they happened. Its kind of a given that we all understand what has happened before. We all lived through it. Why do just keep repeating that mistakes have been made. WE ALREADY KNOW THAT. YOU ARE NOT ADDED ANYTHING TO THE DEBATE bradfordbronco
  • Score: -1

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