City Park is £4m over budget, claims watchdog councillor (From Bradford Telegraph and Argus)
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City Park is £4m over budget, claims watchdog councillor
8:20am Monday 8th August 2011 in Bradford Exclusive By Ben Barnett
The chairman of a watchdog committee today said he feared the delayed Bradford City Park project could now be millions of pounds overspent.
Andrew Mallinson, chairman of Bradford Council’s regeneration and economy overview and scrutiny committee, has demanded answers when it meets next month.
The Telegraph & Argus exclusively revealed last week that the Council’s £24.4m flagship scheme next to City Hall will miss its scheduled opening date in September and will instead open in November, although it will not be finished until January.
The ambitious project includes a mirror pool containing more than 100 fountains, making it the biggest man-made urban water feature in the UK.
Last minute changes have been brought in to cut costs which include not building a separate events control room which will now be incorporated in the main pavilion, and cancelling “a piece of public art”.
It is understood behind the scenes negotiations are going on between Bradford Council and the contractor Birse over the costs of the scheme, which was largely funded by the sale of Leeds-Bradford Airport.
The Council would not comment on the specifics of the overspend preferring instead to reiterate its earlier statement: “Delays usually involve extra resources. We are working within a contract and for commercial confidentiality reasons we are therefore unable to outline how much we expect those to be at present. We understand the need for transparency and we will make the details available as soon as we can.
“We have adjusted the design and adjusted the scheme – including removing the events control room which will now be incorporated in the main pavilion, and a piece of public art – to manage costs.”
But Councillor Mallinson (Con, Craven,) said: “There has been an overspend and the figure that is being bandied around the corridors of City Hall is £4m. I find it very strange that the Council can find ways to hide behind such an overspend.
“I can’t see any commercial confidentiality issues around this at this stage whatsoever. The people of Bradford, in hard economic times, need to know who signed off this overspend and they need to be brought to task.”
Coun Mallinson said he has asked officers to explain themselves at next month’s scrutiny committee meeting.
Council leader Ian Greenwood told the T&A: “Discussions about any issues surrounding the cost of construction are still commercially confidential and it would be inappropriate for anyone on any side to comment further at this time.”
Councillor John Cole (Lib Dem, Baildon), a member of the overview and scrutiny committee, said: “This is a very worthwhile project and the budget over-run is unfortunate but it has been explained. I know Council officers have worked hard to minimise the overspend and they have been quite robust with contractors.”
The Council has blamed the delays on adjustments to the design once construction work began causing, for example, earthworks to be pushed into the winter which has exacerbated the problems. The severe winter conditions also caused some delays, as did unforeseen events like the English Defence League protest.
Asked by the T&A to explain exactly how the EDL protest contributed to the delay, Barra Mac Ruairi, the Council’s strategic director for regeneration and culture, said: “In the weeks leading up to the EDL and anti-fascism demonstrations (in August 2010), City Park construction workers had to be pulled off scheduled tasks to make the site secure on the advice of police and our emergency planners.
“This included removing more than 300 tonnes of excavated earth, installing hundreds of additional double layered fencing panels, backfilling all open excavations and removing machinery and any potential objects, from stones to signs, that could have been targeted by protesters.
“It then took a number of days after the demonstrations to return the site to normal.”
Comments(62)
hardgravity
says...
8:44am Mon 8 Aug 11
eXiLeDiNRoChDaLe wrote:which was largely funded by the sale of Leeds-Bradford Airport.
More incompetence within the council. What a surprise!!
Instead of owning an airport, which is making massive profits, we own a building site which is costing us more by the week!!!
We're stuck with this now, such a shame!
Pass word:- grow-loan, is that what the council are trying to do?
Avro
says...
8:54am Mon 8 Aug 11
futurethinking
says...
8:56am Mon 8 Aug 11
jkelly
says...
9:13am Mon 8 Aug 11
bradford rose
says...
9:13am Mon 8 Aug 11
Failing that, they should get outside anyway, and start walking, until they've left Bradford far behind.
St.Albans Bantam
says...
9:17am Mon 8 Aug 11
jonathancrewdson
says...
9:22am Mon 8 Aug 11
Thee Voice of Reason
says...
9:24am Mon 8 Aug 11
.
Now we know why swimming pools in the district are closing. We now know why elderly care homes are closing.
.
Then they hide behind confidentiality on the cost. It's our money that the council are spending.
old pecker
says...
9:27am Mon 8 Aug 11
but good at excuses same as usual for our council .
Thee Voice of Reason
says...
9:38am Mon 8 Aug 11
jonathancrewdson wrote:The public sector doesn't always get screwed. It's the public sectors or in this case Bradford Councils approach that has screwed them over. They should have insisted on penalty clauses for non completion to schedule and if the contractor didn't agree then they could always find another.
Private sector construction projects nearly always do run to time at least. Penalty clauses for over-runs is the standard approach. Its always the public sector that gets screwed over by private contractors in this way. Typical!
RikG01
says...
9:51am Mon 8 Aug 11
It's like the Cons have some kind of vendetta against us.
RikG01
says...
9:52am Mon 8 Aug 11
It's like the Cons have some kind of vendetta against us.
Joedavid
says...
10:14am Mon 8 Aug 11
If they need a new kitchen do they say to someone fit me a new kitchen, and then not ask the cost and when will it be started and finished. I bet they get a firm price and completion date and make sure it happens!
Lizzydripping
says...
10:17am Mon 8 Aug 11
Thee Voice of Reason wrote:But note 'the Council has blamed the delays on adjustment to the design once construction work began'. No contractor is going to absorb the cost of changes to the agreed contract. Why wasn't the project thought through more carefully before work began or, more to the point, put into the hands of somebody competent to design the project and see it through without expensive changes. Though I suspect it was the Council who requested the changes. What a pity there was no public consultation on what the airport money should be used for.
jonathancrewdson wrote:The public sector doesn't always get screwed. It's the public sectors or in this case Bradford Councils approach that has screwed them over. They should have insisted on penalty clauses for non completion to schedule and if the contractor didn't agree then they could always find another.
Private sector construction projects nearly always do run to time at least. Penalty clauses for over-runs is the standard approach. Its always the public sector that gets screwed over by private contractors in this way. Typical!
Yorkshire Lass
says...
10:47am Mon 8 Aug 11
RikG01 wrote:Not so! The last labour government spent on illegal wars, which are still going on and spent money on many quangos' mostly to keep family and friends in work. As well as this they decided that the tax payers could bale out the failing banks, and then stole millions of pounds from them under the heading of expense claims. To name just a few of their failings. The Tories are now trying to pick up the many pieces left for them to deal with not only here but many things that Labour agreed in Europe.
I think it important to remember that this project was started by the Tories. Failures in creating the contract are entirely their fault. Once ousted from Bradford Council after starting this project, they then cut Bradford's budget by a vast amount, often greater than cuts in many other areas, from a governmental level. It was the Tories who ran Bradford into the ground and the Tories who contine to do so. Labour are just failing to set it right, just as they failed when they took over from Torie rule in Government.
It's like the Cons have some kind of vendetta against us.
Of course Mr Blair is doing nicely now with his current stash on Big houses plus his £20+ in the bank. When the Tories ran Bradford a similar situation occurred after a Labour Council and it normally takes many years to pick up the pieces after their misspending. Look at the City Park - overspent already and nobody wants the folly. We are not a posh well known holiday destination, just a once proud working class city which is now better known for the hole in the ground than anything else.
Yorkshire Lass
says...
10:50am Mon 8 Aug 11
Yorkshire Lass
says...
10:53am Mon 8 Aug 11
Apollo
says...
10:55am Mon 8 Aug 11
Or at least they would have if they were even moderately competent.
Chew-Bacca
says...
10:57am Mon 8 Aug 11
Lizzydripping
says...
10:57am Mon 8 Aug 11
Yorkshire Lass wrote:Erm...must be mistaken but I thought Conservatives MPs had also fiddled their expenses. Seem to remember something about a posh duck house....
RikG01 wrote:Not so! The last labour government spent on illegal wars, which are still going on and spent money on many quangos' mostly to keep family and friends in work. As well as this they decided that the tax payers could bale out the failing banks, and then stole millions of pounds from them under the heading of expense claims. To name just a few of their failings. The Tories are now trying to pick up the many pieces left for them to deal with not only here but many things that Labour agreed in Europe.
I think it important to remember that this project was started by the Tories. Failures in creating the contract are entirely their fault. Once ousted from Bradford Council after starting this project, they then cut Bradford's budget by a vast amount, often greater than cuts in many other areas, from a governmental level. It was the Tories who ran Bradford into the ground and the Tories who contine to do so. Labour are just failing to set it right, just as they failed when they took over from Torie rule in Government.
It's like the Cons have some kind of vendetta against us.
Of course Mr Blair is doing nicely now with his current stash on Big houses plus his £20+ in the bank. When the Tories ran Bradford a similar situation occurred after a Labour Council and it normally takes many years to pick up the pieces after their misspending. Look at the City Park - overspent already and nobody wants the folly. We are not a posh well known holiday destination, just a once proud working class city which is now better known for the hole in the ground than anything else.
Thee Voice of Reason
says...
11:03am Mon 8 Aug 11
.
We can't vote them out and no council taxpayer ever voted them into their high paid jobs. They seem to stumble from one disaster to another but are still paid very generously for their continued disasters.
.
We seem to be stuck with them, and there is nothing we can do about it. Mr Reeves even point blank refused to take a pay cut whilst staff below him were shown the door.
.
Bradford is being run into the ground and the only improvement being made is that of the wealth of our leaders.
MontyLeMar
says...
11:08am Mon 8 Aug 11
Apollo wrote:You're probably right in principle but having worked with contractors I know their slippery ways. It only takes the odd unplanned event or a request from the designer for something other than was on the original drawing and they are in for extra costs like Flynn.
It does not matter that it is over-budget as the Council will have let a fixed price contract and included penalties for late delivery.
Or at least they would have if they were even moderately competent.
Chew-Bacca
says...
11:21am Mon 8 Aug 11
RikG01
says...
11:41am Mon 8 Aug 11
Yorkshire Lass wrote:Except nothing you've listed contradicts what I pointed out. The Tories did this to Bradford. That is fact. Infact everything you've listed was also taken part in by the Tories.
RikG01 wrote:Not so! The last labour government spent on illegal wars, which are still going on and spent money on many quangos' mostly to keep family and friends in work. As well as this they decided that the tax payers could bale out the failing banks, and then stole millions of pounds from them under the heading of expense claims. To name just a few of their failings. The Tories are now trying to pick up the many pieces left for them to deal with not only here but many things that Labour agreed in Europe.
I think it important to remember that this project was started by the Tories. Failures in creating the contract are entirely their fault. Once ousted from Bradford Council after starting this project, they then cut Bradford's budget by a vast amount, often greater than cuts in many other areas, from a governmental level. It was the Tories who ran Bradford into the ground and the Tories who contine to do so. Labour are just failing to set it right, just as they failed when they took over from Torie rule in Government.
It's like the Cons have some kind of vendetta against us.
Of course Mr Blair is doing nicely now with his current stash on Big houses plus his £20+ in the bank. When the Tories ran Bradford a similar situation occurred after a Labour Council and it normally takes many years to pick up the pieces after their misspending. Look at the City Park - overspent already and nobody wants the folly. We are not a posh well known holiday destination, just a once proud working class city which is now better known for the hole in the ground than anything else.
Then there's the fact that it was the tories who left the mess in the first place by selling out to the banks and destroying many of our villages and industry. Labour's failure was in not repairing the damage that the Tories inflicted on the coutry. The present government is picking up the pieces of their mistakes which were compunded by Labours mistakes, supported, in many cases, by the Tories themselves.
bradford rose
says...
11:44am Mon 8 Aug 11
MontyLeMar wrote:Any departure from the original plans usually means extra time and extra work for the contractor or subcontractor...it's only reasonable that the client should bear the extra cost.
Apollo wrote: It does not matter that it is over-budget as the Council will have let a fixed price contract and included penalties for late delivery. Or at least they would have if they were even moderately competent.You're probably right in principle but having worked with contractors I know their slippery ways. It only takes the odd unplanned event or a request from the designer for something other than was on the original drawing and they are in for extra costs like Flynn.
It isn't the contractor who is being slippery but usually the client, trying to get extra work done for nothing.
Reno11
says...
11:57am Mon 8 Aug 11
I don't understand why everyone seems to be blaming the council, if you were having an extension built on your house and it wasn't built on time, would that be your fault? Of course not. The builders are likely to be under performing.
Albion.
says...
12:03pm Mon 8 Aug 11
bradford rose wrote:But the report says that the council has actually lessened it's requirements during the construction period.
MontyLeMar wrote:Any departure from the original plans usually means extra time and extra work for the contractor or subcontractor...it's only reasonable that the client should bear the extra cost.
Apollo wrote: It does not matter that it is over-budget as the Council will have let a fixed price contract and included penalties for late delivery. Or at least they would have if they were even moderately competent.You're probably right in principle but having worked with contractors I know their slippery ways. It only takes the odd unplanned event or a request from the designer for something other than was on the original drawing and they are in for extra costs like Flynn.
It isn't the contractor who is being slippery but usually the client, trying to get extra work done for nothing.
Lizzydripping
says...
12:22pm Mon 8 Aug 11
Idle Moor, Leeds
says...
12:22pm Mon 8 Aug 11
Great use of the Airport funding too! Leeds builds a economy boosting Arena, Bradford overspends on a park.
The building work seems to have been going on forever, and it looks for from complete. Contrast again to the Trinity Centre in Leeds and how much progress has been made there!
bradford rose
says...
1:05pm Mon 8 Aug 11
Albion. wrote:Yes well I said "usually".
bradford rose wrote:But the report says that the council has actually lessened it's requirements during the construction period.MontyLeMar wrote:Any departure from the original plans usually means extra time and extra work for the contractor or subcontractor...it's only reasonable that the client should bear the extra cost. It isn't the contractor who is being slippery but usually the client, trying to get extra work done for nothing.Apollo wrote: It does not matter that it is over-budget as the Council will have let a fixed price contract and included penalties for late delivery. Or at least they would have if they were even moderately competent.You're probably right in principle but having worked with contractors I know their slippery ways. It only takes the odd unplanned event or a request from the designer for something other than was on the original drawing and they are in for extra costs like Flynn.
There's nothing usual or normal about the way our council operates.
Who knows with them? They may have lessened their requirements AND offered the £4m as an incentive to the firm to complete by sometime next year!
bradford rose
says...
1:10pm Mon 8 Aug 11
RikG01 wrote:Very true!
Yorkshire Lass wrote:Except nothing you've listed contradicts what I pointed out. The Tories did this to Bradford. That is fact. Infact everything you've listed was also taken part in by the Tories. Then there's the fact that it was the tories who left the mess in the first place by selling out to the banks and destroying many of our villages and industry. Labour's failure was in not repairing the damage that the Tories inflicted on the coutry. The present government is picking up the pieces of their mistakes which were compunded by Labours mistakes, supported, in many cases, by the Tories themselves.RikG01 wrote: I think it important to remember that this project was started by the Tories. Failures in creating the contract are entirely their fault. Once ousted from Bradford Council after starting this project, they then cut Bradford's budget by a vast amount, often greater than cuts in many other areas, from a governmental level. It was the Tories who ran Bradford into the ground and the Tories who contine to do so. Labour are just failing to set it right, just as they failed when they took over from Torie rule in Government. It's like the Cons have some kind of vendetta against us.Not so! The last labour government spent on illegal wars, which are still going on and spent money on many quangos' mostly to keep family and friends in work. As well as this they decided that the tax payers could bale out the failing banks, and then stole millions of pounds from them under the heading of expense claims. To name just a few of their failings. The Tories are now trying to pick up the many pieces left for them to deal with not only here but many things that Labour agreed in Europe. Of course Mr Blair is doing nicely now with his current stash on Big houses plus his £20+ in the bank. When the Tories ran Bradford a similar situation occurred after a Labour Council and it normally takes many years to pick up the pieces after their misspending. Look at the City Park - overspent already and nobody wants the folly. We are not a posh well known holiday destination, just a once proud working class city which is now better known for the hole in the ground than anything else.
bradford rose
says...
1:13pm Mon 8 Aug 11
Reno11 wrote:No, most likely it would be your fault.
The sale of Leeds Bradford airport? When did that happen! I don't understand why everyone seems to be blaming the council, if you were having an extension built on your house and it wasn't built on time, would that be your fault? Of course not. The builders are likely to be under performing.
Jimbo19
says...
1:18pm Mon 8 Aug 11
That'll be after the money has been spent then!? Also, to acknowledge the need for transparency is not to agree to be transparent!
In view of the fact that the work is delayed, there should be an underspend rather than an overspend. The private contractors should be penalised for the delay. If the contract doesn't contain penalty provisions then we need to look at the quality of the advice the council obtained when the contract was entered into!
scottie dog
says...
1:30pm Mon 8 Aug 11
Ifear that the present finishing date will slip beyond that given because even although certain elements have been taken out of the contract a certain amount of re-design will have been required and that can cause problems.
Positivepete
says...
2:55pm Mon 8 Aug 11
I am Bradford through and through but even I am throwing the towel in these days.
Me and five of my mates could have finished that project by now. I now go to L**ds (I can't even type it) and Halifax at the weekend as it is a much better shopping experience.
Once the Halifax new shopping centre project is finished (almost complete) I can't see any reason to go into town ever again.
Another sad announcement for what used to be a great city.
My prediction is further delays and further cost overruns.
MontyLeMar
says...
3:09pm Mon 8 Aug 11
hardgravity wrote:LBA is only making massive profits because it is now being run by the private sector and they dare charge punters things like £3 for the privilege of dropping off your mother so she can catch a flight. Maybe they should privatise the council? No don't go there!!
eXiLeDiNRoChDaLe wrote:which was largely funded by the sale of Leeds-Bradford Airport.
More incompetence within the council. What a surprise!!
Instead of owning an airport, which is making massive profits, we own a building site which is costing us more by the week!!!
We're stuck with this now, such a shame!
Pass word:- grow-loan, is that what the council are trying to do?
BD16
says...
3:58pm Mon 8 Aug 11
RikG01 wrote:Gordon Brown failed to regulate the FSA for many years as chancellor. He sold all of our gold reserves when the price of gold was rock bottom. He introduced a tax on dividends for shares in pension funds and completely ignored the "pension time bomb". The tories have made many mistakes but when you come to retire and you have no pension think of Gordon and wander what he spent the £5bn a year he stole from our pensions.
Yorkshire Lass wrote:Except nothing you've listed contradicts what I pointed out. The Tories did this to Bradford. That is fact. Infact everything you've listed was also taken part in by the Tories. Then there's the fact that it was the tories who left the mess in the first place by selling out to the banks and destroying many of our villages and industry. Labour's failure was in not repairing the damage that the Tories inflicted on the coutry. The present government is picking up the pieces of their mistakes which were compunded by Labours mistakes, supported, in many cases, by the Tories themselves.RikG01 wrote: I think it important to remember that this project was started by the Tories. Failures in creating the contract are entirely their fault. Once ousted from Bradford Council after starting this project, they then cut Bradford's budget by a vast amount, often greater than cuts in many other areas, from a governmental level. It was the Tories who ran Bradford into the ground and the Tories who contine to do so. Labour are just failing to set it right, just as they failed when they took over from Torie rule in Government. It's like the Cons have some kind of vendetta against us.Not so! The last labour government spent on illegal wars, which are still going on and spent money on many quangos' mostly to keep family and friends in work. As well as this they decided that the tax payers could bale out the failing banks, and then stole millions of pounds from them under the heading of expense claims. To name just a few of their failings. The Tories are now trying to pick up the many pieces left for them to deal with not only here but many things that Labour agreed in Europe. Of course Mr Blair is doing nicely now with his current stash on Big houses plus his £20+ in the bank. When the Tories ran Bradford a similar situation occurred after a Labour Council and it normally takes many years to pick up the pieces after their misspending. Look at the City Park - overspent already and nobody wants the folly. We are not a posh well known holiday destination, just a once proud working class city which is now better known for the hole in the ground than anything else.
roksee
says...
5:08pm Mon 8 Aug 11
roksee
says...
5:13pm Mon 8 Aug 11
we are not wanting information from a private company, we want it from the council, a public body, since when does commercial confidentiality enter into it, since at the year end you provide a report anyway, he needs to go.
angry bradfordian
says...
5:27pm Mon 8 Aug 11
As somebody who works in the procurement of major construction works I can say without any doubt that when the contractors were asked to erect all this presumably special anti-facist fencing, they should have been asked if there would be any effect to the end date of the project. If they said it would then they should have been instructed to bring in additional labour (not difficult in credit crunch Britain).
If this didn't happen then the management supervising the contract aren't fit to be running the job.
Any standard contract I've ever been involved with public bodies has indeed had penalties for late completion, but there has to be a demonstration of the income lost by late completion -a massive amount for a project that's bringing 'millions' of people into the city!
Saltaire Bantam
says...
5:28pm Mon 8 Aug 11
jj83
says...
6:24pm Mon 8 Aug 11
Positivepete wrote:What new shopping centre in Halifax? Do you mean the Broad Street Plaza?? cos that's just a cinema, a few resturants and a hotel - Like a smaller version of The Leisure Exchange in Bradford.
Nothing positive in this report. Shocked but not surprised.
I am Bradford through and through but even I am throwing the towel in these days.
Me and five of my mates could have finished that project by now. I now go to L**ds (I can't even type it) and Halifax at the weekend as it is a much better shopping experience.
Once the Halifax new shopping centre project is finished (almost complete) I can't see any reason to go into town ever again.
Another sad announcement for what used to be a great city.
My prediction is further delays and further cost overruns.
and it's not almost complete.
jj83
says...
6:30pm Mon 8 Aug 11
angry bradfordian
says...
6:47pm Mon 8 Aug 11
roksee wrote:I completely agree- something doesn't add up with this.
You spoilt my thunder guys, you are right, penalty clauses should be the norm, pay back once in overtime a must.....who the hell, draws up these contracts...are the council really thick, over spent again,come on heads surely must role,there has been too many problems over funds, mis spent,over spent, consultation fee's, when is someone goinf to listen and question or ask, exactly what is going on here, lessons are not being learnt or ignored,,,kick the council out for good.
A £24m project will have £50k to 75k running costs a week. We are told that scope has been removed from the project to make it cheaper and yet the weather/EDL delays are costing an additional £4m. That either means a massive additional cost is being covered up or the project is actually going to be another year late.
I'd love to know what qualification Mr MacRuari has to be commenting on major engineering projects!
Albion.
says...
7:11pm Mon 8 Aug 11
jj83 wrote:It'll be complete before this park is, the park won't even be complete when it opens and it's surroundings will be years before completion. Meanwhile go-ahead Halifax will be getting on with this =http://www.halifaxc
Positivepete wrote:What new shopping centre in Halifax? Do you mean the Broad Street Plaza?? cos that's just a cinema, a few resturants and a hotel - Like a smaller version of The Leisure Exchange in Bradford.
Nothing positive in this report. Shocked but not surprised.
I am Bradford through and through but even I am throwing the towel in these days.
Me and five of my mates could have finished that project by now. I now go to L**ds (I can't even type it) and Halifax at the weekend as it is a much better shopping experience.
Once the Halifax new shopping centre project is finished (almost complete) I can't see any reason to go into town ever again.
Another sad announcement for what used to be a great city.
My prediction is further delays and further cost overruns.
and it's not almost complete.
ourier.co.uk/news/ne
w_shopping_centre_bo
ost_for_halifax_1_35
19190
Thee Voice of Reason
says...
7:13pm Mon 8 Aug 11
jj83 wrote:It's going to be not only late but costing £4m more than it should.
The main thing is this is actually going to get built. at the end of the day it's only going to be delayed by a few months... so what? It's not the end of the world and these things happen!
Thats what.
.
So when nursing homes are closing, swimming pools and other public services, the money saved is just being put into this project as it's too far on not to throw more money at it.
.
Still you live in your own world where the council do no wrong, whats £4m eh.
jj83
says...
8:11pm Mon 8 Aug 11
Albion. wrote:All of City Park will be complete in January and the Broad Street Plaza, which was originaly planned to be opened this autumn, won't be finished until March now....
jj83 wrote:It'll be complete before this park is, the park won't even be complete when it opens and it's surroundings will be years before completion. Meanwhile go-ahead Halifax will be getting on with this =http://www.halifaxc
Positivepete wrote:What new shopping centre in Halifax? Do you mean the Broad Street Plaza?? cos that's just a cinema, a few resturants and a hotel - Like a smaller version of The Leisure Exchange in Bradford.
Nothing positive in this report. Shocked but not surprised.
I am Bradford through and through but even I am throwing the towel in these days.
Me and five of my mates could have finished that project by now. I now go to L**ds (I can't even type it) and Halifax at the weekend as it is a much better shopping experience.
Once the Halifax new shopping centre project is finished (almost complete) I can't see any reason to go into town ever again.
Another sad announcement for what used to be a great city.
My prediction is further delays and further cost overruns.
and it's not almost complete.
ourier.co.uk/news/ne
w_shopping_centre_bo
ost_for_halifax_1_35
19190
As for the other project... it says building work COULD start next year.
And what does the first comment by the Halifax citizens say about the story??
"How many times have we heard when referring to Halifax's developement that building could start next year."
.... go-ahead Halifax? oh, really.
basil fawlty
says...
9:48pm Mon 8 Aug 11
Albion.
says...
10:13pm Mon 8 Aug 11
jj83 wrote:Yes go-ahead Halifax, just like go-ahead Leeds and go-ahead Huddersfield! There are things surrounding this park such as the Odeon and the half demolished Police Station which wont be completed in January.
Albion. wrote:All of City Park will be complete in January and the Broad Street Plaza, which was originaly planned to be opened this autumn, won't be finished until March now....
jj83 wrote:It'll be complete before this park is, the park won't even be complete when it opens and it's surroundings will be years before completion. Meanwhile go-ahead Halifax will be getting on with this =http://www.halifaxc
Positivepete wrote:What new shopping centre in Halifax? Do you mean the Broad Street Plaza?? cos that's just a cinema, a few resturants and a hotel - Like a smaller version of The Leisure Exchange in Bradford.
Nothing positive in this report. Shocked but not surprised.
I am Bradford through and through but even I am throwing the towel in these days.
Me and five of my mates could have finished that project by now. I now go to L**ds (I can't even type it) and Halifax at the weekend as it is a much better shopping experience.
Once the Halifax new shopping centre project is finished (almost complete) I can't see any reason to go into town ever again.
Another sad announcement for what used to be a great city.
My prediction is further delays and further cost overruns.
and it's not almost complete.
ourier.co.uk/news/ne
w_shopping_centre_bo
ost_for_halifax_1_35
19190
As for the other project... it says building work COULD start next year.
And what does the first comment by the Halifax citizens say about the story??
"How many times have we heard when referring to Halifax's developement that building could start next year."
.... go-ahead Halifax? oh, really.
It will doubtless be a novelty for a week or two, and then.....
New in Town
says...
11:05pm Mon 8 Aug 11
Patrick Bateman
says...
11:12pm Mon 8 Aug 11
.
Occasionally some posters have mentioned Bradford Council in the same context of a Poulson-type scenario. Maybe I'm being naive but I think this is not a case of systematic corruption but one of sheer bloody incompetence: these clowns are in WAY over their heads and need to admit they aren't up to the job (although expecting Barra Mac & Reeves et al to show a shred of humility is clearly a non-starter). That said I do think should an enquiry into the activities at Bradford Council ever be conducted I wouldn't be too surprised if it gained Poulson-like infamy.
.
I despair, I really do.
Patrick Bateman
says...
11:24pm Mon 8 Aug 11
New in Town wrote:'and what was the piece of public art going to be that we're now missing out on?'
What is the events control room for? and what was the piece of public art going to be that we're now missing out on?
Who knows? But in all likelihood we will never find out.
.
Our council don't 'do' accountability, see.Get used to it.
Patrick Bateman
says...
11:31pm Mon 8 Aug 11
New in Town wrote:Talking of accountability: I'm still waiting to hear news of the council's internal enquiry into that scandalous waste of rate-payers money used to fund that ridiculous cricket match (in *Leeds* of all places). Wasn't Greenwood 'demanding answers' and saying that whoever was involved should be held to account etc?
What is the events control room for? and what was the piece of public art going to be that we're now missing out on?
.
We're still waiting..
AHS
says...
12:24am Tue 9 Aug 11
Yorkshire Lass wrote:HERE HERE....
RikG01 wrote:Not so! The last labour government spent on illegal wars, which are still going on and spent money on many quangos' mostly to keep family and friends in work. As well as this they decided that the tax payers could bale out the failing banks, and then stole millions of pounds from them under the heading of expense claims. To name just a few of their failings. The Tories are now trying to pick up the many pieces left for them to deal with not only here but many things that Labour agreed in Europe.
I think it important to remember that this project was started by the Tories. Failures in creating the contract are entirely their fault. Once ousted from Bradford Council after starting this project, they then cut Bradford's budget by a vast amount, often greater than cuts in many other areas, from a governmental level. It was the Tories who ran Bradford into the ground and the Tories who contine to do so. Labour are just failing to set it right, just as they failed when they took over from Torie rule in Government.
It's like the Cons have some kind of vendetta against us.
Of course Mr Blair is doing nicely now with his current stash on Big houses plus his £20+ in the bank. When the Tories ran Bradford a similar situation occurred after a Labour Council and it normally takes many years to pick up the pieces after their misspending. Look at the City Park - overspent already and nobody wants the folly. We are not a posh well known holiday destination, just a once proud working class city which is now better known for the hole in the ground than anything else.
Patrick Bateman
says...
12:57am Tue 9 Aug 11
'Not so! The last labour government spent on illegal wars, which are still going on and spent money on many quangos' mostly to keep family and friends in work. As well as this they decided that the tax payers could bale out the failing banks, and then stole millions of pounds from them under the heading of expense claims. To name just a few of their failings. The Tories are now trying to pick up the many pieces left for them to deal with not only here but many things that Labour agreed in Europe.
Of course Mr Blair is doing nicely now with his current stash on Big houses plus his £20+ in the bank. When the Tories ran Bradford a similar situation occurred after a Labour Council and it normally takes many years to pick up the pieces after their misspending. Look at the City Park - overspent already and nobody wants the folly. We are not a posh well known holiday destination, just a once proud working class city which is now better known for the hole in the ground than anything else'
.
There's truth in a lot of what you say but I believe you're well wide of the mark in your last claim. You could travel the four corners of the globe and ask people what is Bradford most well known for and I guarantee you it would be nothing to do with a 'hole in the ground' (or other sundry failed council projects).
spinnekop
says...
2:42am Tue 9 Aug 11
jj83 wrote:It's the end of the world as you know it :)
The main thing is this is actually going to get built. at the end of the day it's only going to be delayed by a few months... so what? It's not the end of the world and these things happen!
Nice place to breed malaria. Well done Bradford.
spinnekop
says...
3:00am Tue 9 Aug 11
Patrick Bateman wrote:Im old, I drink a lot, I used to be a sound engineer. An 'events control room' if I remember right is where the sound and light tech bods stay so the audience can get the best of the show.
New in Town wrote: What is the events control room for? and what was the piece of public art going to be that we're now missing out on?'and what was the piece of public art going to be that we're now missing out on?' Who knows? But in all likelihood we will never find out. . Our council don't 'do' accountability, see.Get used to it.
Simalar to siting in the right place in your dobblly hi 5 situation where the sound is just right and the flat screen fancy telly actually points at your face.
Well if you want good sound, and lighting that isnt organised on a delay from some bloke in Queensbury? You need an 'events control room'
Or maybe its a place for all the 'event controllers' to shmooze with the artists and security personel?
Its not even a venue yet and the councill are knocking down the Odeon to build flats and hotel rooms. I want to be there when Ozzfest plays Bradford and the bussinessmen demand their money back and hearing aids :D
Maybe Terrovision could headline?
I think Mark would preffer to re-build the walls that Bradford Council have let be stolen.
Lizzydripping
says...
9:14am Tue 9 Aug 11
Patrick Bateman wrote:Does anybody know the process for getting the Government to look into how Bradford Council is performing (or under performing)? Presumably there is such a process, considering the Poulson affair and the problems a while ago with Doncaster Council.
As the council plumb new depths of ineptitude can someone - ANYONE - not look into the administration, ask searching questions and hold them to account? Time and again it appears the local authority have absolutely no idea or grip on the whole regeneration 'project'. Neither the councillors nor the paid LG officials seem to have even the most basic competences to steer such projects through effectively (and certainly not public works of this scale). Their vainglorious plans to resuscitate the commercial heart of Bradford have been nothing short of a joke from the outset and their flagrant dismissal of the majority of local opinion is yet more evidence that they have little regard for local democracy. They really DO seem to operate outside the normal realms of public accountability
.
Occasionally some posters have mentioned Bradford Council in the same context of a Poulson-type scenario. Maybe I'm being naive but I think this is not a case of systematic corruption but one of sheer bloody incompetence: these clowns are in WAY over their heads and need to admit they aren't up to the job (although expecting Barra Mac & Reeves et al to show a shred of humility is clearly a non-starter). That said I do think should an enquiry into the activities at Bradford Council ever be conducted I wouldn't be too surprised if it gained Poulson-like infamy.
.
I despair, I really do.
Lizzydripping
says...
9:15am Tue 9 Aug 11
Reality001
says...
11:48am Tue 9 Aug 11
Yorkshire Lass wrote:Yes Bradford is remembered for a hole in the ground. A situation which arose under the last Conservative/Liberal Democrat administration in Bradford.
RikG01 wrote: I think it important to remember that this project was started by the Tories. Failures in creating the contract are entirely their fault. Once ousted from Bradford Council after starting this project, they then cut Bradford's budget by a vast amount, often greater than cuts in many other areas, from a governmental level. It was the Tories who ran Bradford into the ground and the Tories who contine to do so. Labour are just failing to set it right, just as they failed when they took over from Torie rule in Government. It's like the Cons have some kind of vendetta against us.Not so! The last labour government spent on illegal wars, which are still going on and spent money on many quangos' mostly to keep family and friends in work. As well as this they decided that the tax payers could bale out the failing banks, and then stole millions of pounds from them under the heading of expense claims. To name just a few of their failings. The Tories are now trying to pick up the many pieces left for them to deal with not only here but many things that Labour agreed in Europe. Of course Mr Blair is doing nicely now with his current stash on Big houses plus his £20+ in the bank. When the Tories ran Bradford a similar situation occurred after a Labour Council and it normally takes many years to pick up the pieces after their misspending. Look at the City Park - overspent already and nobody wants the folly. We are not a posh well known holiday destination, just a once proud working class city which is now better known for the hole in the ground than anything else.
I also think it's a little cheap for the Conservative Councillor Andrew mallinson asking for the details of the contract and accusing the present administration of hiding. Cllr Mallinson the contracts were signed under a Conservative liberal democrat administration under Cllr Hawksworth - So you tell us what you signed Bradford up to. No doubt as is usual with the Conservatives you accepted the lowest bid for the contract, a bid so low as to be unrealistic.
plastersmate
says...
4:14pm Sat 13 Aug 11
The Local Government Act 1985 which got rid of the Greater London Council... however that a London borough ... cant see the government coming all the way up to Bradford
eXiLeDiNRoChDaLe says...
8:37am Mon 8 Aug 11