Bishop of Bradford leads church attack on PM over welfare cuts 'scandal'

The Bishop of Bradford, the Right Reverend Nick Baines, who has protested to David Cameron

The Bishop of Bradford, the Right Reverend Nick Baines, who has protested to David Cameron

First published in Bradford Bradford Telegraph and Argus: Photograph of the Author by , T&A Reporter

The Bishop of Bradford today warned the Government that spending cuts and welfare reforms were having a “scandalous” impact on communities in the north of England.

The Right Reverend Nick Baines, also known as the ‘blogging bishop,’ heads a list of 30 northern Bishops and senior Church leaders who have signed a strongly-worded open letter to Prime Minister David Cameron.

The letter, released today ahead of the Chancellor’s Autumn Statement, said cuts and reforms were undermining the principles of mutual care that are crucial in a good society.

Speaking to the Telegraph & Argus last night, he said it was important for the Church to tell the Government how its proposals would hit those outside London.

“Welfare reforms mean the poorest people are getting poorer, while the richest people are getting richer – and that’s a scandal.

“In this letter we are telling the Government they are not just dealing with figures in Whitehall, this is having an impact on people every day and the poorest are paying the highest.

“In Bradford we have 38,000 children living below the poverty line. That is something we cannot remain silent about. The letter is us taking responsibility to make sure those in power know what impact their decisions have on the ground in other parts of the country, where they are not.”

The list of signatories includes Mgr John Wilson, for the Catholic Diocese of Leeds, the Rev Dr Roger Walton, Methodist Chairman of West Yorkshire District, Bishop Tony Parry, from the New Testament Church of God in Bradford, the Rt Rev John Packer, Bishop of Ripon and Leeds, the Rev Jane Day, Regional Minister (Mission) for Yorkshire Baptist Association, the Rev Kenneth Evans, chairman of the Yorkshire District Conference of the Moravian Church and the Rev Kevin Watson, Yorkshire Synod Moderator of the United Reformed Church.

Together, they write: “As Church leaders in the North of England, we would like to express our concern over the way that cuts in public spending and reforms to the welfare system are beginning to play out in the communities we serve. We are disturbed that the political rhetoric that is increasingly used of benefits claimants, ‘scrounger’ and ‘feckless’ to name but two, stigmatises welfare in such a way that those who are in genuine need become reluctant to make claims, to the detriment of themselves, their families and the communities in which they live.”

“Church leaders offer their full support for a Welfare State that exists as a safety net for the poor.”

They conclude by urging the Prime Minister “to achieve a better balance in the UK economy between the South and the North,” to enable people in northern communities to deploy and benefit from their skills, thereby enhancing the productivity of the country as a whole.”

But Bradford East Liberal Democrat MP David Ward said the country’s welfare bill was “spiralling out of control” and most people accepted change was needed.

“There have been rumours that winter fuel allowance and free travel for over-65s would be cut, but they have been protected. Pensioners have seen the biggest increase in their pensions, the lowest paid public sector workers were exempted from the freeze in public sector pay.

“It’s important that we protect the most vulnerable in society and ensure they are not disadvantaged by welfare reforms. I hope the bishop realises that and will support us on the positive changes.”

Keighley Conservative MP Kris Hopkins said: “There are a lot of people out there working very hard who are annoyed that there are other people who are not working and could be.

“We have got to spend what we have got and if the Bishop of Bradford is saying we should go back to the last Government and start spending money we haven’t got, he is very wrong.”

Shipley’s Conservative MP Philip Davies said the only complaint about welfare reforms from his constituents was that a proposed cap on benefits was “too high”.

“I completely, totally and fundamentally disagree with the Bishop. The previous system trapped people in poverty, making sure people weren’t able to get out of benefits into work, being better off on benefits than in work. The Bishop of Bradford is out of step with most of the people in his diocese.”

Comments (168)

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7:08am Mon 3 Dec 12

thruth9211 says...

true,cap benifit and work
true,cap benifit and work thruth9211
  • Score: 0

7:55am Mon 3 Dec 12

undercliffebantam says...

What a complete barsteward has he ever tried existing on £71.00 a week its no joke, I can tell you I hope he and the rest of them rot in hell. How long will it take the British public to say this is enough, and do something about it where’s the labour party when you need them?

I suppose the answer is to go and get a job. Of course, those who have actually bothered to look recently will have found THERE ARE NO JOBS

I wonder when the Workhouse will rear its ugly head?
What a complete barsteward has he ever tried existing on £71.00 a week its no joke, I can tell you I hope he and the rest of them rot in hell. How long will it take the British public to say this is enough, and do something about it where’s the labour party when you need them? I suppose the answer is to go and get a job. Of course, those who have actually bothered to look recently will have found THERE ARE NO JOBS I wonder when the Workhouse will rear its ugly head? undercliffebantam
  • Score: 0

8:25am Mon 3 Dec 12

zippiehippie says...

David Ward, Philip Davies, Kris Hopkins - no Labour MPs, T&A? Can't wait to see these three looking for work!
David Ward, Philip Davies, Kris Hopkins - no Labour MPs, T&A? Can't wait to see these three looking for work! zippiehippie
  • Score: 0

8:29am Mon 3 Dec 12

angry bradfordian says...

zippiehippie wrote:
David Ward, Philip Davies, Kris Hopkins - no Labour MPs, T&A? Can't wait to see these three looking for work!
To be fair, Bradford only has one Labour MP and he only seems to be interested in being quoted when it's a Bradford Bulls story these days.
[quote][p][bold]zippiehippie[/bold] wrote: David Ward, Philip Davies, Kris Hopkins - no Labour MPs, T&A? Can't wait to see these three looking for work![/p][/quote]To be fair, Bradford only has one Labour MP and he only seems to be interested in being quoted when it's a Bradford Bulls story these days. angry bradfordian
  • Score: 0

8:34am Mon 3 Dec 12

webess says...

The welfare bill is spiralling out of control and does need to be curtailed unless we want to end up like Greece minus the sunshine.
The welfare bill is spiralling out of control and does need to be curtailed unless we want to end up like Greece minus the sunshine. webess
  • Score: 0

8:50am Mon 3 Dec 12

allannicho says...

Child benefit and housing allowance
Must be a tidy sum in Bradford?
Child benefit and housing allowance Must be a tidy sum in Bradford? allannicho
  • Score: 0

8:52am Mon 3 Dec 12

BertSanders says...

If we continue to ignore financial facts we will end up like Greece - there has to be economies and the escape route that Labour would not be doing this is unrealistic - Mr Balls talks generalities - like building more houses - no mention of where the capital will come from or who is able to buy the resultant buildings, or how long it will take to start..
The Bishops do not contribute to the economy either - rather than being critical they should give the public an idea what they might do - and how they think public money should be spent.
If we continue to ignore financial facts we will end up like Greece - there has to be economies and the escape route that Labour would not be doing this is unrealistic - Mr Balls talks generalities - like building more houses - no mention of where the capital will come from or who is able to buy the resultant buildings, or how long it will take to start.. The Bishops do not contribute to the economy either - rather than being critical they should give the public an idea what they might do - and how they think public money should be spent. BertSanders
  • Score: 0

8:52am Mon 3 Dec 12

Cooperlane2 says...

Hundreds of thousands of eastern europeans appear to have found work in the last few years. Plus benefits aren't £71pw..there's housing benefits, free prescriptions, subsidies etc
What the western world has yet to graps is that inflation-adjusted wages are falling, living standards are falling, and we can't afford high subsidies.
Cut the NHS while we are at it...massive spend and it tries to do too much.
Hundreds of thousands of eastern europeans appear to have found work in the last few years. Plus benefits aren't £71pw..there's housing benefits, free prescriptions, subsidies etc What the western world has yet to graps is that inflation-adjusted wages are falling, living standards are falling, and we can't afford high subsidies. Cut the NHS while we are at it...massive spend and it tries to do too much. Cooperlane2
  • Score: 0

9:00am Mon 3 Dec 12

collos25 says...

It does not matter who or who as not found work if you are in need of social welfare even for a couple of weeks you expect it to be there and not be treated like some sort of outcast.I bet the people who complain about to much welfare payments have never been unlucky enough to need it.
It does not matter who or who as not found work if you are in need of social welfare even for a couple of weeks you expect it to be there and not be treated like some sort of outcast.I bet the people who complain about to much welfare payments have never been unlucky enough to need it. collos25
  • Score: 0

9:12am Mon 3 Dec 12

Z.Raja says...

Have Bishops and Co. ever thought that the working peoples who are carrying their own burden, are far worse than unemployed. They are paying very heavy cost of unjustified taxes while struggling for their subsistent Bread & Butter.
Have Bishops and Co. ever thought that the working peoples who are carrying their own burden, are far worse than unemployed. They are paying very heavy cost of unjustified taxes while struggling for their subsistent Bread & Butter. Z.Raja
  • Score: 0

9:40am Mon 3 Dec 12

BertSanders says...

Z.Raja wrote:
Have Bishops and Co. ever thought that the working peoples who are carrying their own burden, are far worse than unemployed. They are paying very heavy cost of unjustified taxes while struggling for their subsistent Bread & Butter.
Unjustified - PAYE is paid by all employees who have employment.
Self assessment has to authorised by the Tax Official. The whole premise of Government policy is that it should pay to work rather than malinger of benefits
which in many cases are too high - more that the receiver is worth to an employer. If you draw benifits better than you can earn it speaks very badly for thos who work.
[quote][p][bold]Z.Raja[/bold] wrote: Have Bishops and Co. ever thought that the working peoples who are carrying their own burden, are far worse than unemployed. They are paying very heavy cost of unjustified taxes while struggling for their subsistent Bread & Butter.[/p][/quote]Unjustified - PAYE is paid by all employees who have employment. Self assessment has to authorised by the Tax Official. The whole premise of Government policy is that it should pay to work rather than malinger of benefits which in many cases are too high - more that the receiver is worth to an employer. If you draw benifits better than you can earn it speaks very badly for thos who work. BertSanders
  • Score: 0

9:45am Mon 3 Dec 12

June Oh says...

I do not think anyone should starve and be homeless etc. should they not have work or ill etc. but I can't understand getting more in benifits than those working.
Also can't understand all these people from abroad getting benifets and also able to find work.
Where are these 38,000 children in poverty the ones I see all have mobile phones/i-pads and things putting music into thier ears. A long with being in the latest fashion clothes.
I do not think anyone should starve and be homeless etc. should they not have work or ill etc. but I can't understand getting more in benifits than those working. Also can't understand all these people from abroad getting benifets and also able to find work. Where are these 38,000 children in poverty the ones I see all have mobile phones/i-pads and things putting music into thier ears. A long with being in the latest fashion clothes. June Oh
  • Score: 0

9:52am Mon 3 Dec 12

Thee Voice of Reason says...

Cooperlane2 wrote:
Hundreds of thousands of eastern europeans appear to have found work in the last few years. Plus benefits aren't £71pw..there's housing benefits, free prescriptions, subsidies etc What the western world has yet to graps is that inflation-adjusted wages are falling, living standards are falling, and we can't afford high subsidies. Cut the NHS while we are at it...massive spend and it tries to do too much.
Quoted for truth.

I bet many working people barely have £71 per week to live on after you take out the expenses of paying their rent/mortgages, rates, travel to and from work, etc.
[quote][p][bold]Cooperlane2[/bold] wrote: Hundreds of thousands of eastern europeans appear to have found work in the last few years. Plus benefits aren't £71pw..there's housing benefits, free prescriptions, subsidies etc What the western world has yet to graps is that inflation-adjusted wages are falling, living standards are falling, and we can't afford high subsidies. Cut the NHS while we are at it...massive spend and it tries to do too much.[/p][/quote]Quoted for truth. I bet many working people barely have £71 per week to live on after you take out the expenses of paying their rent/mortgages, rates, travel to and from work, etc. Thee Voice of Reason
  • Score: 0

10:34am Mon 3 Dec 12

fabricator666 says...

undercliffebantam wrote:
What a complete barsteward has he ever tried existing on £71.00 a week its no joke, I can tell you I hope he and the rest of them rot in hell. How long will it take the British public to say this is enough, and do something about it where’s the labour party when you need them?

I suppose the answer is to go and get a job. Of course, those who have actually bothered to look recently will have found THERE ARE NO JOBS

I wonder when the Workhouse will rear its ugly head?
the labour party got us into this mess idiot. There are in fact hundreds of thousands of jobs available in this country even after labour flooded the market with foreigners. Do you want more? There aren't as many jobs available in Bradford admittedly, but that is down to the poor economy mass immigration has created here. Simples
[quote][p][bold]undercliffebantam[/bold] wrote: What a complete barsteward has he ever tried existing on £71.00 a week its no joke, I can tell you I hope he and the rest of them rot in hell. How long will it take the British public to say this is enough, and do something about it where’s the labour party when you need them? I suppose the answer is to go and get a job. Of course, those who have actually bothered to look recently will have found THERE ARE NO JOBS I wonder when the Workhouse will rear its ugly head?[/p][/quote]the labour party got us into this mess idiot. There are in fact hundreds of thousands of jobs available in this country even after labour flooded the market with foreigners. Do you want more? There aren't as many jobs available in Bradford admittedly, but that is down to the poor economy mass immigration has created here. Simples fabricator666
  • Score: 0

10:35am Mon 3 Dec 12

kully says...

The coalition goverment has no idea what povert is and how families are managing in these difficult times. Winter fuel allowance goes then how do you expect penioners, who are our most vulnearbale citizen to remain in thier home with heating on. These people could lead to all forms of health difficulties. I fully support the Bishop's call.
The coalition goverment has no idea what povert is and how families are managing in these difficult times. Winter fuel allowance goes then how do you expect penioners, who are our most vulnearbale citizen to remain in thier home with heating on. These people could lead to all forms of health difficulties. I fully support the Bishop's call. kully
  • Score: 0

10:38am Mon 3 Dec 12

fabricator666 says...

June Oh wrote:
I do not think anyone should starve and be homeless etc. should they not have work or ill etc. but I can't understand getting more in benifits than those working.
Also can't understand all these people from abroad getting benifets and also able to find work.
Where are these 38,000 children in poverty the ones I see all have mobile phones/i-pads and things putting music into thier ears. A long with being in the latest fashion clothes.
exactly. Nobody is poor in this country. We can all sample it if you like. Vote labour in next time and we'll soon be like Greece/ Portugal etc. Even the former powerhouses of Europe are starting to struggle more than us. We are so lucky we got Brown out in the nick of time. Balls just says what he thinks people want to hear. Balls by name and nature
[quote][p][bold]June Oh[/bold] wrote: I do not think anyone should starve and be homeless etc. should they not have work or ill etc. but I can't understand getting more in benifits than those working. Also can't understand all these people from abroad getting benifets and also able to find work. Where are these 38,000 children in poverty the ones I see all have mobile phones/i-pads and things putting music into thier ears. A long with being in the latest fashion clothes.[/p][/quote]exactly. Nobody is poor in this country. We can all sample it if you like. Vote labour in next time and we'll soon be like Greece/ Portugal etc. Even the former powerhouses of Europe are starting to struggle more than us. We are so lucky we got Brown out in the nick of time. Balls just says what he thinks people want to hear. Balls by name and nature fabricator666
  • Score: 0

10:48am Mon 3 Dec 12

Andy2010 says...

fabricator666 wrote:
June Oh wrote: I do not think anyone should starve and be homeless etc. should they not have work or ill etc. but I can't understand getting more in benifits than those working. Also can't understand all these people from abroad getting benifets and also able to find work. Where are these 38,000 children in poverty the ones I see all have mobile phones/i-pads and things putting music into thier ears. A long with being in the latest fashion clothes.
exactly. Nobody is poor in this country. We can all sample it if you like. Vote labour in next time and we'll soon be like Greece/ Portugal etc. Even the former powerhouses of Europe are starting to struggle more than us. We are so lucky we got Brown out in the nick of time. Balls just says what he thinks people want to hear. Balls by name and nature
Well said...makes me laugh when people on benefits claim they are "starving" or "freezing"...get a grip for gods sake and yet these are the exact people that choose to do nothing to help their situation as they beleive the states owes them a standard of life.

Get a job and support your family ffs....and before anyone says theres no jobs theres plenty...sure would not be ideal and you might hate it but welcome to the real world
[quote][p][bold]fabricator666[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]June Oh[/bold] wrote: I do not think anyone should starve and be homeless etc. should they not have work or ill etc. but I can't understand getting more in benifits than those working. Also can't understand all these people from abroad getting benifets and also able to find work. Where are these 38,000 children in poverty the ones I see all have mobile phones/i-pads and things putting music into thier ears. A long with being in the latest fashion clothes.[/p][/quote]exactly. Nobody is poor in this country. We can all sample it if you like. Vote labour in next time and we'll soon be like Greece/ Portugal etc. Even the former powerhouses of Europe are starting to struggle more than us. We are so lucky we got Brown out in the nick of time. Balls just says what he thinks people want to hear. Balls by name and nature[/p][/quote]Well said...makes me laugh when people on benefits claim they are "starving" or "freezing"...get a grip for gods sake and yet these are the exact people that choose to do nothing to help their situation as they beleive the states owes them a standard of life. Get a job and support your family ffs....and before anyone says theres no jobs theres plenty...sure would not be ideal and you might hate it but welcome to the real world Andy2010
  • Score: 0

10:49am Mon 3 Dec 12

Andy2010 says...

Also interesting to note the Church chipping in isnt it with their Billions in cash assets and literally trillions they own in land.

Why dont they do their bit as well
Also interesting to note the Church chipping in isnt it with their Billions in cash assets and literally trillions they own in land. Why dont they do their bit as well Andy2010
  • Score: 0

10:58am Mon 3 Dec 12

Cityman23 says...

webess wrote:
The welfare bill is spiralling out of control and does need to be curtailed unless we want to end up like Greece minus the sunshine.
It isn't a 'welfare bill spiralling out of control' it's a Conservative- dominated coalition government determined to push neo-liberal policies, on the pretext of bringing the deficit down.

These policies, pushed hard also in the USA since circa 1980 are all about:

*Cutting taxes for the rich
*Cutting benefits for the poor
*Cutting /Privatising as much of the Public Services as possible
*Keeping wages low
*keeping workers fearful of losing jobs/maleable
*Cutting workers rights eg health/safety etc
*Transferring the 'blame' for the financial 'crash' from those REALLY responsible ie bankers/financiers/p
oliticians (all conservative in nature!) TO those who are unemployed, poor, immigrants etc!

This present British govt. has been very successful in pushing this 'big lie.'

It is of course all ultimately aimed at transferring wealth from the majority (ordinary people) to the most wealthy and, at the moment this policy is succeeding. Hence the gap between rich/poor is wider now than for many, many decades.

In Greece, Spain, Portugal and Italy, the people have got wise to the Neo-liberal 'game' and have taken to the streets.

In Britain, we have been largely passive, docile up to now! (NB: Even the Gov. of Bank Of England spoke out recently, to say hewas surprised there hadn't a greater public outcry/response.

Yet, the worst of the cuts have not truly 'bitten'. When they do....
[quote][p][bold]webess[/bold] wrote: The welfare bill is spiralling out of control and does need to be curtailed unless we want to end up like Greece minus the sunshine.[/p][/quote]It isn't a 'welfare bill spiralling out of control' it's a Conservative- dominated coalition government determined to push neo-liberal policies, on the pretext of bringing the deficit down. These policies, pushed hard also in the USA since circa 1980 are all about: *Cutting taxes for the rich *Cutting benefits for the poor *Cutting /Privatising as much of the Public Services as possible *Keeping wages low *keeping workers fearful of losing jobs/maleable *Cutting workers rights eg health/safety etc *Transferring the 'blame' for the financial 'crash' from those REALLY responsible ie bankers/financiers/p oliticians (all conservative in nature!) TO those who are unemployed, poor, immigrants etc! This present British govt. has been very successful in pushing this 'big lie.' It is of course all ultimately aimed at transferring wealth from the majority (ordinary people) to the most wealthy and, at the moment this policy is succeeding. Hence the gap between rich/poor is wider now than for many, many decades. In Greece, Spain, Portugal and Italy, the people have got wise to the Neo-liberal 'game' and have taken to the streets. In Britain, we have been largely passive, docile up to now! (NB: Even the Gov. of Bank Of England spoke out recently, to say hewas surprised there hadn't a greater public outcry/response. Yet, the worst of the cuts have not truly 'bitten'. When they do.... Cityman23
  • Score: 0

11:03am Mon 3 Dec 12

Albion. says...

Andy2010 wrote:
Also interesting to note the Church chipping in isnt it with their Billions in cash assets and literally trillions they own in land.

Why dont they do their bit as well
My own thoughts entirely.
[quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: Also interesting to note the Church chipping in isnt it with their Billions in cash assets and literally trillions they own in land. Why dont they do their bit as well[/p][/quote]My own thoughts entirely. Albion.
  • Score: 0

11:08am Mon 3 Dec 12

webess says...

kully wrote:
The coalition goverment has no idea what povert is and how families are managing in these difficult times. Winter fuel allowance goes then how do you expect penioners, who are our most vulnearbale citizen to remain in thier home with heating on. These people could lead to all forms of health difficulties. I fully support the Bishop's call.
Winter fuel allowance would be paid to millionaire living in Monaco - time it was cut back and given to those genuinely in need.
By the way, many pensioners are very well off and can cope without winter fuel allowance.
[quote][p][bold]kully[/bold] wrote: The coalition goverment has no idea what povert is and how families are managing in these difficult times. Winter fuel allowance goes then how do you expect penioners, who are our most vulnearbale citizen to remain in thier home with heating on. These people could lead to all forms of health difficulties. I fully support the Bishop's call.[/p][/quote]Winter fuel allowance would be paid to millionaire living in Monaco - time it was cut back and given to those genuinely in need. By the way, many pensioners are very well off and can cope without winter fuel allowance. webess
  • Score: 0

11:14am Mon 3 Dec 12

Cityman23 says...

In the present circumstances a British govt. coul instead:

For example:

*Put its best 'minds' to work in thinking of ways to close down tax loopholes-make those getting away with paying little/no tax pay their 'share' eg Vodaphone, Starbucks, Google, Amazon etc

* Bring in a financial transactions tax of 0.02% on each/every financial transaction re: banks/financiers. It is reckoned this could bring in £100 billion.

* Set to work on a programme of building social-housing for the one million homeless in Britain.

* Scrap the expensive Trident replacement missile programme which is both immoral/useless (worth £75-100 million.

* Cease getting involved in foreign wars-we've wasted £billions on these over the last 20 years!

* Invest in green technology in a serious manner

Yet, this government WON'T do any of these....WHY...becau
se these suggestions won't work? No..because it goes against the right-wing neo-Liberal 'mindset'!
In the present circumstances a British govt. coul instead: For example: *Put its best 'minds' to work in thinking of ways to close down tax loopholes-make those getting away with paying little/no tax pay their 'share' eg Vodaphone, Starbucks, Google, Amazon etc * Bring in a financial transactions tax of 0.02% on each/every financial transaction re: banks/financiers. It is reckoned this could bring in £100 billion. * Set to work on a programme of building social-housing for the one million homeless in Britain. * Scrap the expensive Trident replacement missile programme which is both immoral/useless (worth £75-100 million. * Cease getting involved in foreign wars-we've wasted £billions on these over the last 20 years! * Invest in green technology in a serious manner Yet, this government WON'T do any of these....WHY...becau se these suggestions won't work? No..because it goes against the right-wing neo-Liberal 'mindset'! Cityman23
  • Score: 0

11:19am Mon 3 Dec 12

Cityman23 says...

correction: Trident replacement=£75-100 BILLION!
correction: Trident replacement=£75-100 BILLION! Cityman23
  • Score: 0

11:27am Mon 3 Dec 12

Thee Voice of Reason says...

webess wrote:
kully wrote: The coalition goverment has no idea what povert is and how families are managing in these difficult times. Winter fuel allowance goes then how do you expect penioners, who are our most vulnearbale citizen to remain in thier home with heating on. These people could lead to all forms of health difficulties. I fully support the Bishop's call.
Winter fuel allowance would be paid to millionaire living in Monaco - time it was cut back and given to those genuinely in need. By the way, many pensioners are very well off and can cope without winter fuel allowance.
I would guess that many who get winter fuel allowance just spend it on other things, there will be some who need it but like mentioned millionaires get it.
A working man will have to force out for his own heating bill to keep his child warm during the winter.
[quote][p][bold]webess[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]kully[/bold] wrote: The coalition goverment has no idea what povert is and how families are managing in these difficult times. Winter fuel allowance goes then how do you expect penioners, who are our most vulnearbale citizen to remain in thier home with heating on. These people could lead to all forms of health difficulties. I fully support the Bishop's call.[/p][/quote]Winter fuel allowance would be paid to millionaire living in Monaco - time it was cut back and given to those genuinely in need. By the way, many pensioners are very well off and can cope without winter fuel allowance.[/p][/quote]I would guess that many who get winter fuel allowance just spend it on other things, there will be some who need it but like mentioned millionaires get it. A working man will have to force out for his own heating bill to keep his child warm during the winter. Thee Voice of Reason
  • Score: 0

11:35am Mon 3 Dec 12

BD16 says...

Albion. wrote:
Andy2010 wrote: Also interesting to note the Church chipping in isnt it with their Billions in cash assets and literally trillions they own in land. Why dont they do their bit as well
My own thoughts entirely.
Nationalise the Church of England now.
[quote][p][bold]Albion.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: Also interesting to note the Church chipping in isnt it with their Billions in cash assets and literally trillions they own in land. Why dont they do their bit as well[/p][/quote]My own thoughts entirely.[/p][/quote]Nationalise the Church of England now. BD16
  • Score: 0

11:38am Mon 3 Dec 12

Andy2010 says...

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
webess wrote:
kully wrote: The coalition goverment has no idea what povert is and how families are managing in these difficult times. Winter fuel allowance goes then how do you expect penioners, who are our most vulnearbale citizen to remain in thier home with heating on. These people could lead to all forms of health difficulties. I fully support the Bishop's call.
Winter fuel allowance would be paid to millionaire living in Monaco - time it was cut back and given to those genuinely in need. By the way, many pensioners are very well off and can cope without winter fuel allowance.
I would guess that many who get winter fuel allowance just spend it on other things, there will be some who need it but like mentioned millionaires get it. A working man will have to force out for his own heating bill to keep his child warm during the winter.
My nan get the winter allowance and to be honest with her pension she doesnt really need it

I would hazard a guess a lot are in this situation so yes it needs to be looked at as to who receives it but there is also the other side of the arguement where my nan for example has worked hard all her life, paid into the system, never got in debt and saved for years for her retirement. Why shoudl she not get it when others who have signed on all their lives get yet something else for nothing
[quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]webess[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]kully[/bold] wrote: The coalition goverment has no idea what povert is and how families are managing in these difficult times. Winter fuel allowance goes then how do you expect penioners, who are our most vulnearbale citizen to remain in thier home with heating on. These people could lead to all forms of health difficulties. I fully support the Bishop's call.[/p][/quote]Winter fuel allowance would be paid to millionaire living in Monaco - time it was cut back and given to those genuinely in need. By the way, many pensioners are very well off and can cope without winter fuel allowance.[/p][/quote]I would guess that many who get winter fuel allowance just spend it on other things, there will be some who need it but like mentioned millionaires get it. A working man will have to force out for his own heating bill to keep his child warm during the winter.[/p][/quote]My nan get the winter allowance and to be honest with her pension she doesnt really need it I would hazard a guess a lot are in this situation so yes it needs to be looked at as to who receives it but there is also the other side of the arguement where my nan for example has worked hard all her life, paid into the system, never got in debt and saved for years for her retirement. Why shoudl she not get it when others who have signed on all their lives get yet something else for nothing Andy2010
  • Score: 0

11:39am Mon 3 Dec 12

pellethead says...

I blame it on the City Park. Oh & not forgetting those unlicensed bazars
I blame it on the City Park. Oh & not forgetting those unlicensed bazars pellethead
  • Score: 0

11:40am Mon 3 Dec 12

thruth9211 says...

The benefit system should be changed, to promote work and not just to rely on state benefits

The bishops argunment is pointless.

It seems better not to work than working in this country

Those that dont work get free money, medicine and treatment, and those that work hard every **** day have to pay for their daily living

Food vouchers should be given to those on benefits, as it seem that they have enough money to spend on fags and alcohol

So why should we feel sorry for those on benefits, go to any other country and you wouldnt get benefits like the uk

The NHS is falling apart because people aged 16 + and under 60 will not pay for their medication, but pay for fags. There is no justice for the rest of us

Change the system i say. Those on benefits WORK WORK WORK and repay us back through you TAX

People are born idel, why work if the government pays

Any one who disagree with my statement, are mainly on benefits

"NO SUPRISE THERE"
The benefit system should be changed, to promote work and not just to rely on state benefits The bishops argunment is pointless. It seems better not to work than working in this country Those that dont work get free money, medicine and treatment, and those that work hard every **** day have to pay for their daily living Food vouchers should be given to those on benefits, as it seem that they have enough money to spend on fags and alcohol So why should we feel sorry for those on benefits, go to any other country and you wouldnt get benefits like the uk The NHS is falling apart because people aged 16 + and under 60 will not pay for their medication, but pay for fags. There is no justice for the rest of us Change the system i say. Those on benefits WORK WORK WORK and repay us back through you TAX People are born idel, why work if the government pays Any one who disagree with my statement, are mainly on benefits "NO SUPRISE THERE" thruth9211
  • Score: 0

11:42am Mon 3 Dec 12

thruth9211 says...

More should be done to help lonely pensioners, AS most of them worked hard to support this country

Now its the job of this country to support them back, increase their benefits
More should be done to help lonely pensioners, AS most of them worked hard to support this country Now its the job of this country to support them back, increase their benefits thruth9211
  • Score: 0

11:42am Mon 3 Dec 12

dellorri says...

Boy, you can certainly see who the Con/Dem supporters are on this subject can't you, and of course in their opinion their right, because none of the cuts are going to affect them......yet. But what happens say, when 2015 comes along, and the government goes ahead with its plan to axe housing benefit for under 25's, and your children who are students away from home have to come back to your house and can't stay at uni anymore. What happens when the elderly neighbour you know, who ISN'T a millionaire pensioner (there aren't that many) can't afford her heating and dies of hypothermia. what happens when you need emergency surgery and you're left on a trolley in the corridor for hours waiting and they tell you "sorry it's because of the cutbacks in our finances." these are all thing's which I've seen espoused in the above comments. What happens if one of you god forbid should lose your job through no fault of your own and you consequently can't keep up the mortgage, you lose your house and have to depend on benefits.......But they aren't there??? What then??? think about it. In this day and age of uncertainty. It could quite easily be you.
Boy, you can certainly see who the Con/Dem supporters are on this subject can't you, and of course in their opinion their right, because none of the cuts are going to affect them......yet. But what happens say, when 2015 comes along, and the government goes ahead with its plan to axe housing benefit for under 25's, and your children who are students away from home have to come back to your house and can't stay at uni anymore. What happens when the elderly neighbour you know, who ISN'T a millionaire pensioner (there aren't that many) can't afford her heating and dies of hypothermia. what happens when you need emergency surgery and you're left on a trolley in the corridor for hours waiting and they tell you "sorry it's because of the cutbacks in our finances." these are all thing's which I've seen espoused in the above comments. What happens if one of you god forbid should lose your job through no fault of your own and you consequently can't keep up the mortgage, you lose your house and have to depend on benefits.......But they aren't there??? What then??? think about it. In this day and age of uncertainty. It could quite easily be you. dellorri
  • Score: 0

11:42am Mon 3 Dec 12

SinnerSaint says...

There are people I know who have been state dependent for their entire adult lives. Yet this has not stopped them from having several children, massive televisions, holidays abroad, latest phones and fashions, putting statuses on Facebook saying "anyone got a laptop for sale around £200?" and running a car.

The sad irony is that there are working people with families who can't afford these things and certainly can't afford to run a car. Yet, the tax and NI they pay goes towards providing these luxuries to the shirkers. Only in the UK as they say....
There are people I know who have been state dependent for their entire adult lives. Yet this has not stopped them from having several children, massive televisions, holidays abroad, latest phones and fashions, putting statuses on Facebook saying "anyone got a laptop for sale around £200?" and running a car. The sad irony is that there are working people with families who can't afford these things and certainly can't afford to run a car. Yet, the tax and NI they pay goes towards providing these luxuries to the shirkers. Only in the UK as they say.... SinnerSaint
  • Score: 0

11:50am Mon 3 Dec 12

pellethead says...

thruth9211 wrote:
The benefit system should be changed, to promote work and not just to rely on state benefits

The bishops argunment is pointless.

It seems better not to work than working in this country

Those that dont work get free money, medicine and treatment, and those that work hard every **** day have to pay for their daily living

Food vouchers should be given to those on benefits, as it seem that they have enough money to spend on fags and alcohol

So why should we feel sorry for those on benefits, go to any other country and you wouldnt get benefits like the uk

The NHS is falling apart because people aged 16 + and under 60 will not pay for their medication, but pay for fags. There is no justice for the rest of us

Change the system i say. Those on benefits WORK WORK WORK and repay us back through you TAX

People are born idel, why work if the government pays

Any one who disagree with my statement, are mainly on benefits

"NO SUPRISE THERE"
total maximum benefits for a single male looking for a job under 25 living in bradford. JSA £ 56.25. housing benefit £57.73. Council tax benefit assuming living in band a property £ 12.27. total weekly maximum £126.25.

Minimum wage assuming 37.5 hours is £232.
dont tell me most people claiming benefits dont want to work. you are deluded fools.
[quote][p][bold]thruth9211[/bold] wrote: The benefit system should be changed, to promote work and not just to rely on state benefits The bishops argunment is pointless. It seems better not to work than working in this country Those that dont work get free money, medicine and treatment, and those that work hard every **** day have to pay for their daily living Food vouchers should be given to those on benefits, as it seem that they have enough money to spend on fags and alcohol So why should we feel sorry for those on benefits, go to any other country and you wouldnt get benefits like the uk The NHS is falling apart because people aged 16 + and under 60 will not pay for their medication, but pay for fags. There is no justice for the rest of us Change the system i say. Those on benefits WORK WORK WORK and repay us back through you TAX People are born idel, why work if the government pays Any one who disagree with my statement, are mainly on benefits "NO SUPRISE THERE"[/p][/quote]total maximum benefits for a single male looking for a job under 25 living in bradford. JSA £ 56.25. housing benefit £57.73. Council tax benefit assuming living in band a property £ 12.27. total weekly maximum £126.25. Minimum wage assuming 37.5 hours is £232. dont tell me most people claiming benefits dont want to work. you are deluded fools. pellethead
  • Score: 0

11:55am Mon 3 Dec 12

Andy2010 says...

dellorri wrote:
Boy, you can certainly see who the Con/Dem supporters are on this subject can't you, and of course in their opinion their right, because none of the cuts are going to affect them......yet. But what happens say, when 2015 comes along, and the government goes ahead with its plan to axe housing benefit for under 25's, and your children who are students away from home have to come back to your house and can't stay at uni anymore. What happens when the elderly neighbour you know, who ISN'T a millionaire pensioner (there aren't that many) can't afford her heating and dies of hypothermia. what happens when you need emergency surgery and you're left on a trolley in the corridor for hours waiting and they tell you "sorry it's because of the cutbacks in our finances." these are all thing's which I've seen espoused in the above comments. What happens if one of you god forbid should lose your job through no fault of your own and you consequently can't keep up the mortgage, you lose your house and have to depend on benefits.......But they aren't there??? What then??? think about it. In this day and age of uncertainty. It could quite easily be you.
Nothing to do with polictics and everything to do with doing the right thing

As for your suggestions

1) In 2015 if my children had finished University or whatever and needed to come home they could. I would support them until they saved up enough for a bond on a rented house/ flat and make sure they worked to pay for this. Theres your answer....they support themselves

2) If an elderly pensioner neighbour was finding it hard to heat their home because of no winter fuel payment (which isnt going to happen) then they will still be supported either way so that arguement is null and void. You dont have to be a "millionaire" to afford to pay for heating. Im not and I manage

3) As far as Im aware the NHS has had all the problems you state for years now anyway and the MAIN reason for this isnt cutbacks but the immigration policy the LABOUR government introduced
[quote][p][bold]dellorri[/bold] wrote: Boy, you can certainly see who the Con/Dem supporters are on this subject can't you, and of course in their opinion their right, because none of the cuts are going to affect them......yet. But what happens say, when 2015 comes along, and the government goes ahead with its plan to axe housing benefit for under 25's, and your children who are students away from home have to come back to your house and can't stay at uni anymore. What happens when the elderly neighbour you know, who ISN'T a millionaire pensioner (there aren't that many) can't afford her heating and dies of hypothermia. what happens when you need emergency surgery and you're left on a trolley in the corridor for hours waiting and they tell you "sorry it's because of the cutbacks in our finances." these are all thing's which I've seen espoused in the above comments. What happens if one of you god forbid should lose your job through no fault of your own and you consequently can't keep up the mortgage, you lose your house and have to depend on benefits.......But they aren't there??? What then??? think about it. In this day and age of uncertainty. It could quite easily be you.[/p][/quote]Nothing to do with polictics and everything to do with doing the right thing As for your suggestions 1) In 2015 if my children had finished University or whatever and needed to come home they could. I would support them until they saved up enough for a bond on a rented house/ flat and make sure they worked to pay for this. Theres your answer....they support themselves 2) If an elderly pensioner neighbour was finding it hard to heat their home because of no winter fuel payment (which isnt going to happen) then they will still be supported either way so that arguement is null and void. You dont have to be a "millionaire" to afford to pay for heating. Im not and I manage 3) As far as Im aware the NHS has had all the problems you state for years now anyway and the MAIN reason for this isnt cutbacks but the immigration policy the LABOUR government introduced Andy2010
  • Score: 0

11:56am Mon 3 Dec 12

Thee Voice of Reason says...

dellorri wrote:
Boy, you can certainly see who the Con/Dem supporters are on this subject can't you, and of course in their opinion their right, because none of the cuts are going to affect them......yet. But what happens say, when 2015 comes along, and the government goes ahead with its plan to axe housing benefit for under 25's, and your children who are students away from home have to come back to your house and can't stay at uni anymore. What happens when the elderly neighbour you know, who ISN'T a millionaire pensioner (there aren't that many) can't afford her heating and dies of hypothermia. what happens when you need emergency surgery and you're left on a trolley in the corridor for hours waiting and they tell you "sorry it's because of the cutbacks in our finances." these are all thing's which I've seen espoused in the above comments. What happens if one of you god forbid should lose your job through no fault of your own and you consequently can't keep up the mortgage, you lose your house and have to depend on benefits.......But they aren't there??? What then??? think about it. In this day and age of uncertainty. It could quite easily be you.
You come out with the same on the forums, but once again just to confirm it for you.

You will find that everyone believes that the elderly and those who can't look after themselves deserve to be looked after.

You'll also find that those out there that fall on hard times through no fault of their own deserve to fall into the safety net of the welfare system for the short term till they get back into work.

The thing is we aren't talking about these people, we are talking about those with many kids who don't work but have their houses and such paid for them by their very neighbours who go to work, pay through the nose in childcare and are struggling to make ends meet.

I know some people who say they don't require the winter fuel allowance but still accept it, after all they paid into the system all their lives, they could happily live without it. And thats the problem because there are many out there like this, in theory the winter fuel allowance is a good idea but in reality many need it but equally others don't.

Like I said above there will be families who probably need it more even after working all day long still struggle to heat the house.

Don't kid yourself that there aren't hundreds of thousands of people playing the system.

If these people were dealt with and weren't playing the system those that do need it wouldn't end up under so much scrutiny, so lay the finger of blame at them.
[quote][p][bold]dellorri[/bold] wrote: Boy, you can certainly see who the Con/Dem supporters are on this subject can't you, and of course in their opinion their right, because none of the cuts are going to affect them......yet. But what happens say, when 2015 comes along, and the government goes ahead with its plan to axe housing benefit for under 25's, and your children who are students away from home have to come back to your house and can't stay at uni anymore. What happens when the elderly neighbour you know, who ISN'T a millionaire pensioner (there aren't that many) can't afford her heating and dies of hypothermia. what happens when you need emergency surgery and you're left on a trolley in the corridor for hours waiting and they tell you "sorry it's because of the cutbacks in our finances." these are all thing's which I've seen espoused in the above comments. What happens if one of you god forbid should lose your job through no fault of your own and you consequently can't keep up the mortgage, you lose your house and have to depend on benefits.......But they aren't there??? What then??? think about it. In this day and age of uncertainty. It could quite easily be you.[/p][/quote]You come out with the same on the forums, but once again just to confirm it for you. You will find that everyone believes that the elderly and those who can't look after themselves deserve to be looked after. You'll also find that those out there that fall on hard times through no fault of their own deserve to fall into the safety net of the welfare system for the short term till they get back into work. The thing is we aren't talking about these people, we are talking about those with many kids who don't work but have their houses and such paid for them by their very neighbours who go to work, pay through the nose in childcare and are struggling to make ends meet. I know some people who say they don't require the winter fuel allowance but still accept it, after all they paid into the system all their lives, they could happily live without it. And thats the problem because there are many out there like this, in theory the winter fuel allowance is a good idea but in reality many need it but equally others don't. Like I said above there will be families who probably need it more even after working all day long still struggle to heat the house. Don't kid yourself that there aren't hundreds of thousands of people playing the system. If these people were dealt with and weren't playing the system those that do need it wouldn't end up under so much scrutiny, so lay the finger of blame at them. Thee Voice of Reason
  • Score: 0

12:25pm Mon 3 Dec 12

thruth9211 says...

pellethead wrote:
thruth9211 wrote:
The benefit system should be changed, to promote work and not just to rely on state benefits

The bishops argunment is pointless.

It seems better not to work than working in this country

Those that dont work get free money, medicine and treatment, and those that work hard every **** day have to pay for their daily living

Food vouchers should be given to those on benefits, as it seem that they have enough money to spend on fags and alcohol

So why should we feel sorry for those on benefits, go to any other country and you wouldnt get benefits like the uk

The NHS is falling apart because people aged 16 + and under 60 will not pay for their medication, but pay for fags. There is no justice for the rest of us

Change the system i say. Those on benefits WORK WORK WORK and repay us back through you TAX

People are born idel, why work if the government pays

Any one who disagree with my statement, are mainly on benefits

"NO SUPRISE THERE"
total maximum benefits for a single male looking for a job under 25 living in bradford. JSA £ 56.25. housing benefit £57.73. Council tax benefit assuming living in band a property £ 12.27. total weekly maximum £126.25.

Minimum wage assuming 37.5 hours is £232.
dont tell me most people claiming benefits dont want to work. you are deluded fools.
Well, those that cant claim benefits, because they dont work, but are studying

Dont even get a penny

So stop complaining and get work
[quote][p][bold]pellethead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thruth9211[/bold] wrote: The benefit system should be changed, to promote work and not just to rely on state benefits The bishops argunment is pointless. It seems better not to work than working in this country Those that dont work get free money, medicine and treatment, and those that work hard every **** day have to pay for their daily living Food vouchers should be given to those on benefits, as it seem that they have enough money to spend on fags and alcohol So why should we feel sorry for those on benefits, go to any other country and you wouldnt get benefits like the uk The NHS is falling apart because people aged 16 + and under 60 will not pay for their medication, but pay for fags. There is no justice for the rest of us Change the system i say. Those on benefits WORK WORK WORK and repay us back through you TAX People are born idel, why work if the government pays Any one who disagree with my statement, are mainly on benefits "NO SUPRISE THERE"[/p][/quote]total maximum benefits for a single male looking for a job under 25 living in bradford. JSA £ 56.25. housing benefit £57.73. Council tax benefit assuming living in band a property £ 12.27. total weekly maximum £126.25. Minimum wage assuming 37.5 hours is £232. dont tell me most people claiming benefits dont want to work. you are deluded fools.[/p][/quote]Well, those that cant claim benefits, because they dont work, but are studying Dont even get a penny So stop complaining and get work thruth9211
  • Score: 0

12:37pm Mon 3 Dec 12

dellorri says...

T.V.O.R. Thanks for the acknowldgement, yes I do tend to harp on about us "spoonies" as some people are now calling us (lovely name eh?) but I can't help it. Now then you assert that HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS are on the fiddle eh? ok, well like I posted on the forum, you may have missed it, here are the official figures from the DWP for the period 2011-2012 for over and underpayment of benefits due to FRAUD and CLAIMANT OR DWP ERROR. The figures dont exacly amount to the colossal figure you claim, please also note this does not include DLA which is widely acknowledged now as having the LOWEST fraud figure of 0.3% annually. you will need Adobe reader to check it but heres the link to the report anyway.

dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd2/
fem/nsfr-final-29111
2.pdf
T.V.O.R. Thanks for the acknowldgement, yes I do tend to harp on about us "spoonies" as some people are now calling us (lovely name eh?) but I can't help it. Now then you assert that HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS are on the fiddle eh? ok, well like I posted on the forum, you may have missed it, here are the official figures from the DWP for the period 2011-2012 for over and underpayment of benefits due to FRAUD and CLAIMANT OR DWP ERROR. The figures dont exacly amount to the colossal figure you claim, please also note this does not include DLA which is widely acknowledged now as having the LOWEST fraud figure of 0.3% annually. you will need Adobe reader to check it but heres the link to the report anyway. dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd2/ fem/nsfr-final-29111 2.pdf dellorri
  • Score: 0

12:51pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Andy2010 says...

dellorri wrote:
T.V.O.R. Thanks for the acknowldgement, yes I do tend to harp on about us "spoonies" as some people are now calling us (lovely name eh?) but I can't help it. Now then you assert that HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS are on the fiddle eh? ok, well like I posted on the forum, you may have missed it, here are the official figures from the DWP for the period 2011-2012 for over and underpayment of benefits due to FRAUD and CLAIMANT OR DWP ERROR. The figures dont exacly amount to the colossal figure you claim, please also note this does not include DLA which is widely acknowledged now as having the LOWEST fraud figure of 0.3% annually. you will need Adobe reader to check it but heres the link to the report anyway. dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd2/ fem/nsfr-final-29111 2.pdf
When did TVOR claim Fraud?

He was mainly pointing out and rightly so that TOO much benefits are being paid out in the first place and these cuts are needed to readdress the balance

I too like him / her know 3 people that in 35 years havent worked a day in their lives. Whilst I appreciate 2 of them are on DLA...one for Epiliepsy (who hasnt had a fit in nearly 10 years) these sort of claimants arent taken into account in your summary. It only summarise where fraud is commited not where people are "playing the system"
[quote][p][bold]dellorri[/bold] wrote: T.V.O.R. Thanks for the acknowldgement, yes I do tend to harp on about us "spoonies" as some people are now calling us (lovely name eh?) but I can't help it. Now then you assert that HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS are on the fiddle eh? ok, well like I posted on the forum, you may have missed it, here are the official figures from the DWP for the period 2011-2012 for over and underpayment of benefits due to FRAUD and CLAIMANT OR DWP ERROR. The figures dont exacly amount to the colossal figure you claim, please also note this does not include DLA which is widely acknowledged now as having the LOWEST fraud figure of 0.3% annually. you will need Adobe reader to check it but heres the link to the report anyway. dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd2/ fem/nsfr-final-29111 2.pdf[/p][/quote]When did TVOR claim Fraud? He was mainly pointing out and rightly so that TOO much benefits are being paid out in the first place and these cuts are needed to readdress the balance I too like him / her know 3 people that in 35 years havent worked a day in their lives. Whilst I appreciate 2 of them are on DLA...one for Epiliepsy (who hasnt had a fit in nearly 10 years) these sort of claimants arent taken into account in your summary. It only summarise where fraud is commited not where people are "playing the system" Andy2010
  • Score: 0

12:57pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Another Landless Peasant says...

The Bishop is right to speak out, and thank God we still have Bishops in the House of Lords to curtail some of the evil plans being dream up by these over-privileged public schoolboy scumbags in Government.

The persecution and demonization of people in receipt of State Benefits isa scandal alright, and is disproportionate and unwaranted, purely vindictive, a Class War against the poor, especially when you consider that only a mere 2% of the Welfare bill is JSA, the majority of it is pensions. People are being forced to choose between eating and heating, and are worried sick about losing their Benefist and their homes. Enough is enough. Get these tw@ats kicked out before they ruin this country for ever.
The Bishop is right to speak out, and thank God we still have Bishops in the House of Lords to curtail some of the evil plans being dream up by these over-privileged public schoolboy scumbags in Government. The persecution and demonization of people in receipt of State Benefits isa scandal alright, and is disproportionate and unwaranted, purely vindictive, a Class War against the poor, especially when you consider that only a mere 2% of the Welfare bill is JSA, the majority of it is pensions. People are being forced to choose between eating and heating, and are worried sick about losing their Benefist and their homes. Enough is enough. Get these tw@ats kicked out before they ruin this country for ever. Another Landless Peasant
  • Score: 0

1:00pm Mon 3 Dec 12

jacknbeanstalk says...

dellorri wrote:
Boy, you can certainly see who the Con/Dem supporters are on this subject can't you, and of course in their opinion their right, because none of the cuts are going to affect them......yet. But what happens say, when 2015 comes along, and the government goes ahead with its plan to axe housing benefit for under 25's, and your children who are students away from home have to come back to your house and can't stay at uni anymore. What happens when the elderly neighbour you know, who ISN'T a millionaire pensioner (there aren't that many) can't afford her heating and dies of hypothermia. what happens when you need emergency surgery and you're left on a trolley in the corridor for hours waiting and they tell you "sorry it's because of the cutbacks in our finances." these are all thing's which I've seen espoused in the above comments. What happens if one of you god forbid should lose your job through no fault of your own and you consequently can't keep up the mortgage, you lose your house and have to depend on benefits.......But they aren't there??? What then??? think about it. In this day and age of uncertainty. It could quite easily be you.
well said
[quote][p][bold]dellorri[/bold] wrote: Boy, you can certainly see who the Con/Dem supporters are on this subject can't you, and of course in their opinion their right, because none of the cuts are going to affect them......yet. But what happens say, when 2015 comes along, and the government goes ahead with its plan to axe housing benefit for under 25's, and your children who are students away from home have to come back to your house and can't stay at uni anymore. What happens when the elderly neighbour you know, who ISN'T a millionaire pensioner (there aren't that many) can't afford her heating and dies of hypothermia. what happens when you need emergency surgery and you're left on a trolley in the corridor for hours waiting and they tell you "sorry it's because of the cutbacks in our finances." these are all thing's which I've seen espoused in the above comments. What happens if one of you god forbid should lose your job through no fault of your own and you consequently can't keep up the mortgage, you lose your house and have to depend on benefits.......But they aren't there??? What then??? think about it. In this day and age of uncertainty. It could quite easily be you.[/p][/quote]well said jacknbeanstalk
  • Score: 0

1:01pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Another Landless Peasant says...

here is a long and proud history of dissent among the English people, and if Cameron & Co. want to start a Rebellion or Revolution, a Peasant's Revolt, then they are going the right way about it! We will eat the rich !!!! OFF WITH THEIR HEADS !!!!
here is a long and proud history of dissent among the English people, and if Cameron & Co. want to start a Rebellion or Revolution, a Peasant's Revolt, then they are going the right way about it! We will eat the rich !!!! OFF WITH THEIR HEADS !!!! Another Landless Peasant
  • Score: 0

1:04pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Another Landless Peasant says...

Stop the rich parasites from stealing all the wealth. Put a stop to b'stards like Lord Ashcroft, multi-Billionaire who pays no tax. Stop chucking Millions £££ into the pockets of Benefit Scroungers such as Emma Harrison who paid herself £8.6 Million of YOUR money for doing NOTHING. These scroungers are ruining our country.
Stop the rich parasites from stealing all the wealth. Put a stop to b'stards like Lord Ashcroft, multi-Billionaire who pays no tax. Stop chucking Millions £££ into the pockets of Benefit Scroungers such as Emma Harrison who paid herself £8.6 Million of YOUR money for doing NOTHING. These scroungers are ruining our country. Another Landless Peasant
  • Score: 0

1:19pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Andy2010 says...

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
Stop the rich parasites from stealing all the wealth. Put a stop to b'stards like Lord Ashcroft, multi-Billionaire who pays no tax. Stop chucking Millions £££ into the pockets of Benefit Scroungers such as Emma Harrison who paid herself £8.6 Million of YOUR money for doing NOTHING. These scroungers are ruining our country.
So if I make a go of life and work hard to become one of the "rich" you think I should pay more to support those that dont pay anything even though I pay more in taxes in the first place?

BTW of the £8.6m you state Emma Harrison was paid (was actually 2.2m but let that detract you from the truth) she paid £1.2m of that in tax
[quote][p][bold]Another Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: Stop the rich parasites from stealing all the wealth. Put a stop to b'stards like Lord Ashcroft, multi-Billionaire who pays no tax. Stop chucking Millions £££ into the pockets of Benefit Scroungers such as Emma Harrison who paid herself £8.6 Million of YOUR money for doing NOTHING. These scroungers are ruining our country.[/p][/quote]So if I make a go of life and work hard to become one of the "rich" you think I should pay more to support those that dont pay anything even though I pay more in taxes in the first place? BTW of the £8.6m you state Emma Harrison was paid (was actually 2.2m but let that detract you from the truth) she paid £1.2m of that in tax Andy2010
  • Score: 0

1:21pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Another Landless Peasant says...

Emma Harrison was paid £8.6 Million as her annual wage, NOT £2.2 Million. She did NOTHING to earn it.
Emma Harrison was paid £8.6 Million as her annual wage, NOT £2.2 Million. She did NOTHING to earn it. Another Landless Peasant
  • Score: 0

1:25pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Another Landless Peasant says...

It only takes the Police and the Armed forces to switch sides and the Toffs in Government will lose their heads...the Class war will become a Civil War. That is where we are heading.
It only takes the Police and the Armed forces to switch sides and the Toffs in Government will lose their heads...the Class war will become a Civil War. That is where we are heading. Another Landless Peasant
  • Score: 0

1:26pm Mon 3 Dec 12

richard grant says...

Why is this country giving millions away in foreign aid, and when we are up **** creek without a paddle, and people are relying on food banks, and sleeping rough on the streets?
Look at the cost for staying in the EU.

Barmy Britain.

Wake up.
Why is this country giving millions away in foreign aid, and when we are up **** creek without a paddle, and people are relying on food banks, and sleeping rough on the streets? Look at the cost for staying in the EU. Barmy Britain. Wake up. richard grant
  • Score: 0

1:29pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Andy2010 says...

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
Emma Harrison was paid £8.6 Million as her annual wage, NOT £2.2 Million. She did NOTHING to earn it.
Did you read that "on the internet"

It isnt true I assure you

her salary was approx £500k and her share payout was £1.7m

And as for doing nothing...she set up the company, secured government contracts (not easy to do) and employed a hell of a lot of people. On top of that they actually did get a sizeable number of people back into work.

Union Leaders.....now there you have the greatest drain on society. like the BBC they simply scrounge of the councils and their members to support their bosses 6, sometimes 7 figures salaries all in the case of the "common" man. All doing this will quaffing champagne and laughing at their members shortcomings
[quote][p][bold]Another Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: Emma Harrison was paid £8.6 Million as her annual wage, NOT £2.2 Million. She did NOTHING to earn it.[/p][/quote]Did you read that "on the internet" It isnt true I assure you her salary was approx £500k and her share payout was £1.7m And as for doing nothing...she set up the company, secured government contracts (not easy to do) and employed a hell of a lot of people. On top of that they actually did get a sizeable number of people back into work. Union Leaders.....now there you have the greatest drain on society. like the BBC they simply scrounge of the councils and their members to support their bosses 6, sometimes 7 figures salaries all in the case of the "common" man. All doing this will quaffing champagne and laughing at their members shortcomings Andy2010
  • Score: 0

1:39pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Andy2010 says...

richard grant wrote:
Why is this country giving millions away in foreign aid, and when we are up **** creek without a paddle, and people are relying on food banks, and sleeping rough on the streets? Look at the cost for staying in the EU. Barmy Britain. Wake up.
I concur

I would suggest voting UKIP (even though i dont)
[quote][p][bold]richard grant[/bold] wrote: Why is this country giving millions away in foreign aid, and when we are up **** creek without a paddle, and people are relying on food banks, and sleeping rough on the streets? Look at the cost for staying in the EU. Barmy Britain. Wake up.[/p][/quote]I concur I would suggest voting UKIP (even though i dont) Andy2010
  • Score: 0

1:41pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Another Landless Peasant says...

Andy, you are a prize pillock. people like you are the problem.
Andy, you are a prize pillock. people like you are the problem. Another Landless Peasant
  • Score: 0

1:44pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Another Landless Peasant says...

We need an all-out National General Strike. If you have a job then for God's sake JOIN A UNION and GET OUT ON STRIKE BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE !!!!

Those on Benefits, DO NOT COMPLY.

BOYCOTT THE WORK PROGRAMME !!!

END THIS TORY MADNESS !!!

RISE UP, PEOPLE OF BRITAIN, RISE UP AND FIGHT FOR YOUR RIGHTS !!!!!
We need an all-out National General Strike. If you have a job then for God's sake JOIN A UNION and GET OUT ON STRIKE BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE !!!! Those on Benefits, DO NOT COMPLY. BOYCOTT THE WORK PROGRAMME !!! END THIS TORY MADNESS !!! RISE UP, PEOPLE OF BRITAIN, RISE UP AND FIGHT FOR YOUR RIGHTS !!!!! Another Landless Peasant
  • Score: 0

1:50pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Andy2010 says...

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
We need an all-out National General Strike. If you have a job then for God's sake JOIN A UNION and GET OUT ON STRIKE BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE !!!! Those on Benefits, DO NOT COMPLY. BOYCOTT THE WORK PROGRAMME !!! END THIS TORY MADNESS !!! RISE UP, PEOPLE OF BRITAIN, RISE UP AND FIGHT FOR YOUR RIGHTS !!!!!
Is that because Strikes acheive things?

Lets look at your points

1) I have a job but no union....why would I want to pay for the members of the unions boards six figure salaries or their jaunts on foreign holidays or indeed their accomadation when they earn such an obscene amount

2) Benefits claimants not comply....not comply to what ? Looking for a job ? attending a work program...fair enough dont but if your benefits then get stopped on your head be it as is your own lazy fault

3) Yes rise up and fight for your rights ...lol

Because that has worked in Greece / Italy etc etc.

End of the day if the workshy (by this I mean people who have no intention of working and not genuine people in need of help) did their bit we wouldnt be in this situation anyway or at least we wouldnt be talking about it
[quote][p][bold]Another Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: We need an all-out National General Strike. If you have a job then for God's sake JOIN A UNION and GET OUT ON STRIKE BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE !!!! Those on Benefits, DO NOT COMPLY. BOYCOTT THE WORK PROGRAMME !!! END THIS TORY MADNESS !!! RISE UP, PEOPLE OF BRITAIN, RISE UP AND FIGHT FOR YOUR RIGHTS !!!!![/p][/quote]Is that because Strikes acheive things? Lets look at your points 1) I have a job but no union....why would I want to pay for the members of the unions boards six figure salaries or their jaunts on foreign holidays or indeed their accomadation when they earn such an obscene amount 2) Benefits claimants not comply....not comply to what ? Looking for a job ? attending a work program...fair enough dont but if your benefits then get stopped on your head be it as is your own lazy fault 3) Yes rise up and fight for your rights ...lol Because that has worked in Greece / Italy etc etc. End of the day if the workshy (by this I mean people who have no intention of working and not genuine people in need of help) did their bit we wouldnt be in this situation anyway or at least we wouldnt be talking about it Andy2010
  • Score: 0

1:54pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Another Landless Peasant says...

Here's some wholesome songs to inspire you:

http://youtu.be/qzXk
bV4lEKU

http://youtu.be/xhjp
FBGbtvY


Stand up, all victims of oppression
For the tyrants fear your might
Don't cling so hard to your possessions
For you have nothing, if you have no rights
Let racist ignorance be ended
For respect makes the empires fall
Freedom is merely privilege extended
Unless enjoyed by one and all.

So come brothers and sisters
For the struggle carries on
The Internationale
Unites the world in song
So comrades come rally
For this is the time and place
The international ideal
Unites the human race.

Let no one build walls to divide us
Walls of hatred nor walls of stone
Come greet the dawn and stand beside us
We'll live together or we'll die alone
In our world poisoned by exploitation
Those who have taken, now they must give
And end the vanity of nations
We've one but one Earth on which to live.

So come brothers and sisters
For the struggle carries on
The Internationale
Unites the world in song
So comrades come rally
For this is the time and place
The international ideal
Unites the human race.

And so begins the final drama
In the streets and in the fields
We stand unbowed before their armour
We defy their guns and shields
When we fight, provoked by their aggression
Let us be inspired by life and love
For though they offer us concessions
Change will not come from above.

http://youtu.be/T2Mp
X2GhPZA


You can fool some people sometimes,
But you can't fool all the people all the time.
So now we see the light,
We gonna stand up for our rights!

http://youtu.be/q7iX
cKKpdx0


VIVE LA REVOLUTION !!!
Here's some wholesome songs to inspire you: http://youtu.be/qzXk bV4lEKU http://youtu.be/xhjp FBGbtvY Stand up, all victims of oppression For the tyrants fear your might Don't cling so hard to your possessions For you have nothing, if you have no rights Let racist ignorance be ended For respect makes the empires fall Freedom is merely privilege extended Unless enjoyed by one and all. So come brothers and sisters For the struggle carries on The Internationale Unites the world in song So comrades come rally For this is the time and place The international ideal Unites the human race. Let no one build walls to divide us Walls of hatred nor walls of stone Come greet the dawn and stand beside us We'll live together or we'll die alone In our world poisoned by exploitation Those who have taken, now they must give And end the vanity of nations We've one but one Earth on which to live. So come brothers and sisters For the struggle carries on The Internationale Unites the world in song So comrades come rally For this is the time and place The international ideal Unites the human race. And so begins the final drama In the streets and in the fields We stand unbowed before their armour We defy their guns and shields When we fight, provoked by their aggression Let us be inspired by life and love For though they offer us concessions Change will not come from above. http://youtu.be/T2Mp X2GhPZA You can fool some people sometimes, But you can't fool all the people all the time. So now we see the light, We gonna stand up for our rights! http://youtu.be/q7iX cKKpdx0 VIVE LA REVOLUTION !!! Another Landless Peasant
  • Score: 0

1:54pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Andy2010 says...

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
Andy, you are a prize pillock. people like you are the problem.
Yes Im the problem for working and paying my taxes and bills out of my pocket

I think maybe you are right....maybe I am a prize pillock as clearly I would have less hassle in life if I just signed on JSA, claimed housing benefit, Had a couple more kids, claimed Council tax benefit, got free school meals for aforementioned children, free school uniforms and not to mention free medical prescriptions.

Indeed each day I think I made the wrong choice in life to work hard and provide for my family when clearly I could have acted like yourself, just churned out loads of kids, claimed everything under the sun, voted Labour and then spent most of my days moaning that I wanted more
[quote][p][bold]Another Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: Andy, you are a prize pillock. people like you are the problem.[/p][/quote]Yes Im the problem for working and paying my taxes and bills out of my pocket I think maybe you are right....maybe I am a prize pillock as clearly I would have less hassle in life if I just signed on JSA, claimed housing benefit, Had a couple more kids, claimed Council tax benefit, got free school meals for aforementioned children, free school uniforms and not to mention free medical prescriptions. Indeed each day I think I made the wrong choice in life to work hard and provide for my family when clearly I could have acted like yourself, just churned out loads of kids, claimed everything under the sun, voted Labour and then spent most of my days moaning that I wanted more Andy2010
  • Score: 0

1:56pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Andy2010 says...

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
Here's some wholesome songs to inspire you: http://youtu.be/qzXk bV4lEKU http://youtu.be/xhjp FBGbtvY Stand up, all victims of oppression For the tyrants fear your might Don't cling so hard to your possessions For you have nothing, if you have no rights Let racist ignorance be ended For respect makes the empires fall Freedom is merely privilege extended Unless enjoyed by one and all. So come brothers and sisters For the struggle carries on The Internationale Unites the world in song So comrades come rally For this is the time and place The international ideal Unites the human race. Let no one build walls to divide us Walls of hatred nor walls of stone Come greet the dawn and stand beside us We'll live together or we'll die alone In our world poisoned by exploitation Those who have taken, now they must give And end the vanity of nations We've one but one Earth on which to live. So come brothers and sisters For the struggle carries on The Internationale Unites the world in song So comrades come rally For this is the time and place The international ideal Unites the human race. And so begins the final drama In the streets and in the fields We stand unbowed before their armour We defy their guns and shields When we fight, provoked by their aggression Let us be inspired by life and love For though they offer us concessions Change will not come from above. http://youtu.be/T2Mp X2GhPZA You can fool some people sometimes, But you can't fool all the people all the time. So now we see the light, We gonna stand up for our rights! http://youtu.be/q7iX cKKpdx0 VIVE LA REVOLUTION !!!
See you have been busy copy and pasting more sh*te off the internet

Good luck with your one man revolution
[quote][p][bold]Another Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: Here's some wholesome songs to inspire you: http://youtu.be/qzXk bV4lEKU http://youtu.be/xhjp FBGbtvY Stand up, all victims of oppression For the tyrants fear your might Don't cling so hard to your possessions For you have nothing, if you have no rights Let racist ignorance be ended For respect makes the empires fall Freedom is merely privilege extended Unless enjoyed by one and all. So come brothers and sisters For the struggle carries on The Internationale Unites the world in song So comrades come rally For this is the time and place The international ideal Unites the human race. Let no one build walls to divide us Walls of hatred nor walls of stone Come greet the dawn and stand beside us We'll live together or we'll die alone In our world poisoned by exploitation Those who have taken, now they must give And end the vanity of nations We've one but one Earth on which to live. So come brothers and sisters For the struggle carries on The Internationale Unites the world in song So comrades come rally For this is the time and place The international ideal Unites the human race. And so begins the final drama In the streets and in the fields We stand unbowed before their armour We defy their guns and shields When we fight, provoked by their aggression Let us be inspired by life and love For though they offer us concessions Change will not come from above. http://youtu.be/T2Mp X2GhPZA You can fool some people sometimes, But you can't fool all the people all the time. So now we see the light, We gonna stand up for our rights! http://youtu.be/q7iX cKKpdx0 VIVE LA REVOLUTION !!![/p][/quote]See you have been busy copy and pasting more sh*te off the internet Good luck with your one man revolution Andy2010
  • Score: 0

2:00pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Albion. says...

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
Emma Harrison was paid £8.6 Million as her annual wage, NOT £2.2 Million. She did NOTHING to earn it.
Much like you then.
[quote][p][bold]Another Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: Emma Harrison was paid £8.6 Million as her annual wage, NOT £2.2 Million. She did NOTHING to earn it.[/p][/quote]Much like you then. Albion.
  • Score: 0

2:02pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Another Landless Peasant says...

Support Socialist Worker:

http://www.socialist
worker.co.uk/donatio
n.php
Support Socialist Worker: http://www.socialist worker.co.uk/donatio n.php Another Landless Peasant
  • Score: 0

2:02pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Albion. says...

Andy2010 wrote:
richard grant wrote:
Why is this country giving millions away in foreign aid, and when we are up **** creek without a paddle, and people are relying on food banks, and sleeping rough on the streets? Look at the cost for staying in the EU. Barmy Britain. Wake up.
I concur

I would suggest voting UKIP (even though i dont)
Agree.
[quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]richard grant[/bold] wrote: Why is this country giving millions away in foreign aid, and when we are up **** creek without a paddle, and people are relying on food banks, and sleeping rough on the streets? Look at the cost for staying in the EU. Barmy Britain. Wake up.[/p][/quote]I concur I would suggest voting UKIP (even though i dont)[/p][/quote]Agree. Albion.
  • Score: 0

2:05pm Mon 3 Dec 12

BertSanders says...

Nice to see Another Landless Peasant has got up - or had an early morning sign on
Nice to see Another Landless Peasant has got up - or had an early morning sign on BertSanders
  • Score: 0

2:22pm Mon 3 Dec 12

RollandSmoke says...

There's a theme in a lot of posts, I know this bloke, or at least I claim to, and I'm going to use him as an example so as to make a sweeping generalisation about people on benefits. I'm allowed to be a hateful as I want when I'm kicking these people who are down and if I can I'll chuck a bit of racism for good measure.

The reason there are SOME people who are better off on benefits than in work is that the wages are crap and fall well short of a living wage leaving many workers still relient on benefits. Until this addressed the walfare bill will continue to rise, not as a result of those out of work but through the increasing numbers of low paid workers who's wages are subsidised by the taxpayer.
There's a theme in a lot of posts, I know this bloke, or at least I claim to, and I'm going to use him as an example so as to make a sweeping generalisation about people on benefits. I'm allowed to be a hateful as I want when I'm kicking these people who are down and if I can I'll chuck a bit of racism for good measure. The reason there are SOME people who are better off on benefits than in work is that the wages are crap and fall well short of a living wage leaving many workers still relient on benefits. Until this addressed the walfare bill will continue to rise, not as a result of those out of work but through the increasing numbers of low paid workers who's wages are subsidised by the taxpayer. RollandSmoke
  • Score: 0

2:28pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Andy2010 says...

RollandSmoke wrote:
There's a theme in a lot of posts, I know this bloke, or at least I claim to, and I'm going to use him as an example so as to make a sweeping generalisation about people on benefits. I'm allowed to be a hateful as I want when I'm kicking these people who are down and if I can I'll chuck a bit of racism for good measure. The reason there are SOME people who are better off on benefits than in work is that the wages are crap and fall well short of a living wage leaving many workers still relient on benefits. Until this addressed the walfare bill will continue to rise, not as a result of those out of work but through the increasing numbers of low paid workers who's wages are subsidised by the taxpayer.
eh?

I fail to understand your point. Are you saying some workers arent paid enough money?

If this is the case could they not do two jobs ? Could they not retrain or educate themselves to have a better earning potential.

With the recent cut backs on the Tax credits system this has addressed the balaqnce you are stating so I fail to see your point
[quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: There's a theme in a lot of posts, I know this bloke, or at least I claim to, and I'm going to use him as an example so as to make a sweeping generalisation about people on benefits. I'm allowed to be a hateful as I want when I'm kicking these people who are down and if I can I'll chuck a bit of racism for good measure. The reason there are SOME people who are better off on benefits than in work is that the wages are crap and fall well short of a living wage leaving many workers still relient on benefits. Until this addressed the walfare bill will continue to rise, not as a result of those out of work but through the increasing numbers of low paid workers who's wages are subsidised by the taxpayer.[/p][/quote]eh? I fail to understand your point. Are you saying some workers arent paid enough money? If this is the case could they not do two jobs ? Could they not retrain or educate themselves to have a better earning potential. With the recent cut backs on the Tax credits system this has addressed the balaqnce you are stating so I fail to see your point Andy2010
  • Score: 0

2:30pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Albion. says...

RollandSmoke wrote:
There's a theme in a lot of posts, I know this bloke, or at least I claim to, and I'm going to use him as an example so as to make a sweeping generalisation about people on benefits. I'm allowed to be a hateful as I want when I'm kicking these people who are down and if I can I'll chuck a bit of racism for good measure.

The reason there are SOME people who are better off on benefits than in work is that the wages are crap and fall well short of a living wage leaving many workers still relient on benefits. Until this addressed the walfare bill will continue to rise, not as a result of those out of work but through the increasing numbers of low paid workers who's wages are subsidised by the taxpayer.
There is also a "theme" in the posts to which those that you refer to, respond.
[quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: There's a theme in a lot of posts, I know this bloke, or at least I claim to, and I'm going to use him as an example so as to make a sweeping generalisation about people on benefits. I'm allowed to be a hateful as I want when I'm kicking these people who are down and if I can I'll chuck a bit of racism for good measure. The reason there are SOME people who are better off on benefits than in work is that the wages are crap and fall well short of a living wage leaving many workers still relient on benefits. Until this addressed the walfare bill will continue to rise, not as a result of those out of work but through the increasing numbers of low paid workers who's wages are subsidised by the taxpayer.[/p][/quote]There is also a "theme" in the posts to which those that you refer to, respond. Albion.
  • Score: 0

2:53pm Mon 3 Dec 12

RollandSmoke says...

Andy2010 wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote:
There's a theme in a lot of posts, I know this bloke, or at least I claim to, and I'm going to use him as an example so as to make a sweeping generalisation about people on benefits. I'm allowed to be a hateful as I want when I'm kicking these people who are down and if I can I'll chuck a bit of racism for good measure. The reason there are SOME people who are better off on benefits than in work is that the wages are crap and fall well short of a living wage leaving many workers still relient on benefits. Until this addressed the walfare bill will continue to rise, not as a result of those out of work but through the increasing numbers of low paid workers who's wages are subsidised by the taxpayer.
eh?

I fail to understand your point. Are you saying some workers arent paid enough money?

If this is the case could they not do two jobs ? Could they not retrain or educate themselves to have a better earning potential.

With the recent cut backs on the Tax credits system this has addressed the balaqnce you are stating so I fail to see your point
You're not going to make yourself look stupid again are you Andy? Too right I'm saying some workers arn't paid enough. If someone is working full time and the company that employs them is turning over a profit why the hell should he have to be subsidised by the taxpayer or take on a second job? Retraining or education requires a level of education to build on that in many cases our schools have failed to equip them with. They are however easily exploited by the capitalist psychopaths who wouldn't know empathy if it slapped them in the face. In many cases the massive salaries paid at the top pale into insignificance when compaired to their earnings from playing around with accumulated wealth, little of which will ever be scrutinised by the revenue and customs. The average worker has every right to be disgusted at the level of tax they are having to pay but they are miss directing their anger and failing to see the real causes.
[quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: There's a theme in a lot of posts, I know this bloke, or at least I claim to, and I'm going to use him as an example so as to make a sweeping generalisation about people on benefits. I'm allowed to be a hateful as I want when I'm kicking these people who are down and if I can I'll chuck a bit of racism for good measure. The reason there are SOME people who are better off on benefits than in work is that the wages are crap and fall well short of a living wage leaving many workers still relient on benefits. Until this addressed the walfare bill will continue to rise, not as a result of those out of work but through the increasing numbers of low paid workers who's wages are subsidised by the taxpayer.[/p][/quote]eh? I fail to understand your point. Are you saying some workers arent paid enough money? If this is the case could they not do two jobs ? Could they not retrain or educate themselves to have a better earning potential. With the recent cut backs on the Tax credits system this has addressed the balaqnce you are stating so I fail to see your point[/p][/quote]You're not going to make yourself look stupid again are you Andy? Too right I'm saying some workers arn't paid enough. If someone is working full time and the company that employs them is turning over a profit why the hell should he have to be subsidised by the taxpayer or take on a second job? Retraining or education requires a level of education to build on that in many cases our schools have failed to equip them with. They are however easily exploited by the capitalist psychopaths who wouldn't know empathy if it slapped them in the face. In many cases the massive salaries paid at the top pale into insignificance when compaired to their earnings from playing around with accumulated wealth, little of which will ever be scrutinised by the revenue and customs. The average worker has every right to be disgusted at the level of tax they are having to pay but they are miss directing their anger and failing to see the real causes. RollandSmoke
  • Score: 0

2:54pm Mon 3 Dec 12

markjoe says...

pellethead wrote:
thruth9211 wrote:
The benefit system should be changed, to promote work and not just to rely on state benefits

The bishops argunment is pointless.

It seems better not to work than working in this country

Those that dont work get free money, medicine and treatment, and those that work hard every **** day have to pay for their daily living

Food vouchers should be given to those on benefits, as it seem that they have enough money to spend on fags and alcohol

So why should we feel sorry for those on benefits, go to any other country and you wouldnt get benefits like the uk

The NHS is falling apart because people aged 16 + and under 60 will not pay for their medication, but pay for fags. There is no justice for the rest of us

Change the system i say. Those on benefits WORK WORK WORK and repay us back through you TAX

People are born idel, why work if the government pays

Any one who disagree with my statement, are mainly on benefits

"NO SUPRISE THERE"
total maximum benefits for a single male looking for a job under 25 living in bradford. JSA £ 56.25. housing benefit £57.73. Council tax benefit assuming living in band a property £ 12.27. total weekly maximum £126.25.

Minimum wage assuming 37.5 hours is £232.
dont tell me most people claiming benefits dont want to work. you are deluded fools.
Out of that £232 you've got to take the Tax & NI off, then there is travel to and from work, council tax, rent/mortgage, prescription charges, dentist charges.
[quote][p][bold]pellethead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thruth9211[/bold] wrote: The benefit system should be changed, to promote work and not just to rely on state benefits The bishops argunment is pointless. It seems better not to work than working in this country Those that dont work get free money, medicine and treatment, and those that work hard every **** day have to pay for their daily living Food vouchers should be given to those on benefits, as it seem that they have enough money to spend on fags and alcohol So why should we feel sorry for those on benefits, go to any other country and you wouldnt get benefits like the uk The NHS is falling apart because people aged 16 + and under 60 will not pay for their medication, but pay for fags. There is no justice for the rest of us Change the system i say. Those on benefits WORK WORK WORK and repay us back through you TAX People are born idel, why work if the government pays Any one who disagree with my statement, are mainly on benefits "NO SUPRISE THERE"[/p][/quote]total maximum benefits for a single male looking for a job under 25 living in bradford. JSA £ 56.25. housing benefit £57.73. Council tax benefit assuming living in band a property £ 12.27. total weekly maximum £126.25. Minimum wage assuming 37.5 hours is £232. dont tell me most people claiming benefits dont want to work. you are deluded fools.[/p][/quote]Out of that £232 you've got to take the Tax & NI off, then there is travel to and from work, council tax, rent/mortgage, prescription charges, dentist charges. markjoe
  • Score: 0

3:12pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Andy2010 says...

RollandSmoke wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote: There's a theme in a lot of posts, I know this bloke, or at least I claim to, and I'm going to use him as an example so as to make a sweeping generalisation about people on benefits. I'm allowed to be a hateful as I want when I'm kicking these people who are down and if I can I'll chuck a bit of racism for good measure. The reason there are SOME people who are better off on benefits than in work is that the wages are crap and fall well short of a living wage leaving many workers still relient on benefits. Until this addressed the walfare bill will continue to rise, not as a result of those out of work but through the increasing numbers of low paid workers who's wages are subsidised by the taxpayer.
eh? I fail to understand your point. Are you saying some workers arent paid enough money? If this is the case could they not do two jobs ? Could they not retrain or educate themselves to have a better earning potential. With the recent cut backs on the Tax credits system this has addressed the balaqnce you are stating so I fail to see your point
You're not going to make yourself look stupid again are you Andy? Too right I'm saying some workers arn't paid enough. If someone is working full time and the company that employs them is turning over a profit why the hell should he have to be subsidised by the taxpayer or take on a second job? Retraining or education requires a level of education to build on that in many cases our schools have failed to equip them with. They are however easily exploited by the capitalist psychopaths who wouldn't know empathy if it slapped them in the face. In many cases the massive salaries paid at the top pale into insignificance when compaired to their earnings from playing around with accumulated wealth, little of which will ever be scrutinised by the revenue and customs. The average worker has every right to be disgusted at the level of tax they are having to pay but they are miss directing their anger and failing to see the real causes.
well seen as you clearly should work as an Economist

So your point is (just so I understand as you try and make yourself appear to be educated)

1) Workers arent paid enough
2) Schools have failed the aforementioned workers so they have no ability to educate themselves further
3) You claim CEO's or similar standings in companies are overpaid
4) You claim that in your words "the average worker is disgusted at the levels of tax they pay"


Ok lets look at your points

1) Like I said earlier if you are on a low wage you are subsidised by Tax Credits. Most people including myself would agree this is fair as at least they are contributing in one form or another. Now that the scales have also been lowered although not "fair" to some "average" workers I wouldnt say many have a problem with this

2) You claim education has ruined low earners ambition. Sorry but that is complete b0llocks. Everyone in this country gets educated for free to a standard most countries could only dream of. If these students then choose to not build on this this is there problem not the governments or anyone elses.

3) I would argue the point that a lot of high paid executives have worked hard to achieve their standings in a company. Anyone can go into a company and through hard work and training work their way up should they have the will and desire. So I will ask again why shouldnt they be paid more if at the end of the day its them running the business and employing how ever many people.

4) I think most "average" workers arent really disgusted in paying tax. I would argue that the vast majority accept they contribute to society. The welfare state is a great thing and most will agree with this but you know what your "average" worker is sick off...People not pulling their weight because they think the state owes them a living.

Your stance on things just demonstrates you are representing the bone idle of society
[quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: There's a theme in a lot of posts, I know this bloke, or at least I claim to, and I'm going to use him as an example so as to make a sweeping generalisation about people on benefits. I'm allowed to be a hateful as I want when I'm kicking these people who are down and if I can I'll chuck a bit of racism for good measure. The reason there are SOME people who are better off on benefits than in work is that the wages are crap and fall well short of a living wage leaving many workers still relient on benefits. Until this addressed the walfare bill will continue to rise, not as a result of those out of work but through the increasing numbers of low paid workers who's wages are subsidised by the taxpayer.[/p][/quote]eh? I fail to understand your point. Are you saying some workers arent paid enough money? If this is the case could they not do two jobs ? Could they not retrain or educate themselves to have a better earning potential. With the recent cut backs on the Tax credits system this has addressed the balaqnce you are stating so I fail to see your point[/p][/quote]You're not going to make yourself look stupid again are you Andy? Too right I'm saying some workers arn't paid enough. If someone is working full time and the company that employs them is turning over a profit why the hell should he have to be subsidised by the taxpayer or take on a second job? Retraining or education requires a level of education to build on that in many cases our schools have failed to equip them with. They are however easily exploited by the capitalist psychopaths who wouldn't know empathy if it slapped them in the face. In many cases the massive salaries paid at the top pale into insignificance when compaired to their earnings from playing around with accumulated wealth, little of which will ever be scrutinised by the revenue and customs. The average worker has every right to be disgusted at the level of tax they are having to pay but they are miss directing their anger and failing to see the real causes.[/p][/quote]well seen as you clearly should work as an Economist So your point is (just so I understand as you try and make yourself appear to be educated) 1) Workers arent paid enough 2) Schools have failed the aforementioned workers so they have no ability to educate themselves further 3) You claim CEO's or similar standings in companies are overpaid 4) You claim that in your words "the average worker is disgusted at the levels of tax they pay" Ok lets look at your points 1) Like I said earlier if you are on a low wage you are subsidised by Tax Credits. Most people including myself would agree this is fair as at least they are contributing in one form or another. Now that the scales have also been lowered although not "fair" to some "average" workers I wouldnt say many have a problem with this 2) You claim education has ruined low earners ambition. Sorry but that is complete b0llocks. Everyone in this country gets educated for free to a standard most countries could only dream of. If these students then choose to not build on this this is there problem not the governments or anyone elses. 3) I would argue the point that a lot of high paid executives have worked hard to achieve their standings in a company. Anyone can go into a company and through hard work and training work their way up should they have the will and desire. So I will ask again why shouldnt they be paid more if at the end of the day its them running the business and employing how ever many people. 4) I think most "average" workers arent really disgusted in paying tax. I would argue that the vast majority accept they contribute to society. The welfare state is a great thing and most will agree with this but you know what your "average" worker is sick off...People not pulling their weight because they think the state owes them a living. Your stance on things just demonstrates you are representing the bone idle of society Andy2010
  • Score: 0

3:12pm Mon 3 Dec 12

thruth9211 says...

well said pettlehead.

any then your left with nothing

better not to work
well said pettlehead. any then your left with nothing better not to work thruth9211
  • Score: 0

3:26pm Mon 3 Dec 12

undercliffebantam says...

Yes Im the problem for working and paying my taxes and bills out of my pocket

I think maybe you are right....maybe I am a prize pillock as clearly I would have less hassle in life if I just signed on JSA, claimed housing benefit, Had a couple more kids, claimed Council tax benefit, got free school meals for aforementioned children, free school uniforms and not to mention free medical prescriptions.

Dont forget Child Tax Credits.!!!!
Yes Im the problem for working and paying my taxes and bills out of my pocket I think maybe you are right....maybe I am a prize pillock as clearly I would have less hassle in life if I just signed on JSA, claimed housing benefit, Had a couple more kids, claimed Council tax benefit, got free school meals for aforementioned children, free school uniforms and not to mention free medical prescriptions. Dont forget Child Tax Credits.!!!! undercliffebantam
  • Score: 0

3:30pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Andy2010 says...

undercliffebantam wrote:
Yes Im the problem for working and paying my taxes and bills out of my pocket I think maybe you are right....maybe I am a prize pillock as clearly I would have less hassle in life if I just signed on JSA, claimed housing benefit, Had a couple more kids, claimed Council tax benefit, got free school meals for aforementioned children, free school uniforms and not to mention free medical prescriptions. Dont forget Child Tax Credits.!!!!
Sorry forgot that

Oh and also

Expenses paid travelling to and from interviews

Social Fund grants

"Decorating" grants

Legal Aid

Free Dental

Free Vetcare (although why you shoudl have pets when you cant afford it I dont know)

hell I can even get the social to pay for my funeral !

To name a few
[quote][p][bold]undercliffebantam[/bold] wrote: Yes Im the problem for working and paying my taxes and bills out of my pocket I think maybe you are right....maybe I am a prize pillock as clearly I would have less hassle in life if I just signed on JSA, claimed housing benefit, Had a couple more kids, claimed Council tax benefit, got free school meals for aforementioned children, free school uniforms and not to mention free medical prescriptions. Dont forget Child Tax Credits.!!!![/p][/quote]Sorry forgot that Oh and also Expenses paid travelling to and from interviews Social Fund grants "Decorating" grants Legal Aid Free Dental Free Vetcare (although why you shoudl have pets when you cant afford it I dont know) hell I can even get the social to pay for my funeral ! To name a few Andy2010
  • Score: 0

3:57pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Shelfrhino says...

Who cares what a bishop, or any other religious leader thinks.
Religion is for the weak willed and desperate and their opinion has nothing to do with what goes on in the real world.

Here's a few things that should help the country save a few quid for the hard pressed taxpayer.

Family allowance should be limited to two kids, if you want more than that, you pay for them.
Housing benefit should be slashed, if you can't afford to put a roof over your families head, don't have a family.
Disability cars should be done away with, seems like everybody who is related to anyone with a limp is entitled to one.
No IVF or other vanity treatments on the NHS.
No foreigner who has contributed nothing should be allowed benefits or healthcare.
All foreigners convicted of a crime should be deported immediately.
All foreign aid to cease immediately.
All substance abusers to have all benefits stopped.
Who cares what a bishop, or any other religious leader thinks. Religion is for the weak willed and desperate and their opinion has nothing to do with what goes on in the real world. Here's a few things that should help the country save a few quid for the hard pressed taxpayer. Family allowance should be limited to two kids, if you want more than that, you pay for them. Housing benefit should be slashed, if you can't afford to put a roof over your families head, don't have a family. Disability cars should be done away with, seems like everybody who is related to anyone with a limp is entitled to one. No IVF or other vanity treatments on the NHS. No foreigner who has contributed nothing should be allowed benefits or healthcare. All foreigners convicted of a crime should be deported immediately. All foreign aid to cease immediately. All substance abusers to have all benefits stopped. Shelfrhino
  • Score: 0

4:02pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Andy2010 says...

Shelfrhino wrote:
Who cares what a bishop, or any other religious leader thinks. Religion is for the weak willed and desperate and their opinion has nothing to do with what goes on in the real world. Here's a few things that should help the country save a few quid for the hard pressed taxpayer. Family allowance should be limited to two kids, if you want more than that, you pay for them. Housing benefit should be slashed, if you can't afford to put a roof over your families head, don't have a family. Disability cars should be done away with, seems like everybody who is related to anyone with a limp is entitled to one. No IVF or other vanity treatments on the NHS. No foreigner who has contributed nothing should be allowed benefits or healthcare. All foreigners convicted of a crime should be deported immediately. All foreign aid to cease immediately. All substance abusers to have all benefits stopped.
*Awaits Rollands and ALP's response*
[quote][p][bold]Shelfrhino[/bold] wrote: Who cares what a bishop, or any other religious leader thinks. Religion is for the weak willed and desperate and their opinion has nothing to do with what goes on in the real world. Here's a few things that should help the country save a few quid for the hard pressed taxpayer. Family allowance should be limited to two kids, if you want more than that, you pay for them. Housing benefit should be slashed, if you can't afford to put a roof over your families head, don't have a family. Disability cars should be done away with, seems like everybody who is related to anyone with a limp is entitled to one. No IVF or other vanity treatments on the NHS. No foreigner who has contributed nothing should be allowed benefits or healthcare. All foreigners convicted of a crime should be deported immediately. All foreign aid to cease immediately. All substance abusers to have all benefits stopped.[/p][/quote]*Awaits Rollands and ALP's response* Andy2010
  • Score: 0

4:02pm Mon 3 Dec 12

RollandSmoke says...

Andy2010 wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote: There's a theme in a lot of posts, I know this bloke, or at least I claim to, and I'm going to use him as an example so as to make a sweeping generalisation about people on benefits. I'm allowed to be a hateful as I want when I'm kicking these people who are down and if I can I'll chuck a bit of racism for good measure. The reason there are SOME people who are better off on benefits than in work is that the wages are crap and fall well short of a living wage leaving many workers still relient on benefits. Until this addressed the walfare bill will continue to rise, not as a result of those out of work but through the increasing numbers of low paid workers who's wages are subsidised by the taxpayer.
eh? I fail to understand your point. Are you saying some workers arent paid enough money? If this is the case could they not do two jobs ? Could they not retrain or educate themselves to have a better earning potential. With the recent cut backs on the Tax credits system this has addressed the balaqnce you are stating so I fail to see your point
You're not going to make yourself look stupid again are you Andy? Too right I'm saying some workers arn't paid enough. If someone is working full time and the company that employs them is turning over a profit why the hell should he have to be subsidised by the taxpayer or take on a second job? Retraining or education requires a level of education to build on that in many cases our schools have failed to equip them with. They are however easily exploited by the capitalist psychopaths who wouldn't know empathy if it slapped them in the face. In many cases the massive salaries paid at the top pale into insignificance when compaired to their earnings from playing around with accumulated wealth, little of which will ever be scrutinised by the revenue and customs. The average worker has every right to be disgusted at the level of tax they are having to pay but they are miss directing their anger and failing to see the real causes.
well seen as you clearly should work as an Economist

So your point is (just so I understand as you try and make yourself appear to be educated)

1) Workers arent paid enough
2) Schools have failed the aforementioned workers so they have no ability to educate themselves further
3) You claim CEO's or similar standings in companies are overpaid
4) You claim that in your words "the average worker is disgusted at the levels of tax they pay"


Ok lets look at your points

1) Like I said earlier if you are on a low wage you are subsidised by Tax Credits. Most people including myself would agree this is fair as at least they are contributing in one form or another. Now that the scales have also been lowered although not "fair" to some "average" workers I wouldnt say many have a problem with this

2) You claim education has ruined low earners ambition. Sorry but that is complete b0llocks. Everyone in this country gets educated for free to a standard most countries could only dream of. If these students then choose to not build on this this is there problem not the governments or anyone elses.

3) I would argue the point that a lot of high paid executives have worked hard to achieve their standings in a company. Anyone can go into a company and through hard work and training work their way up should they have the will and desire. So I will ask again why shouldnt they be paid more if at the end of the day its them running the business and employing how ever many people.

4) I think most "average" workers arent really disgusted in paying tax. I would argue that the vast majority accept they contribute to society. The welfare state is a great thing and most will agree with this but you know what your "average" worker is sick off...People not pulling their weight because they think the state owes them a living.

Your stance on things just demonstrates you are representing the bone idle of society
You truely are a clown
1, if you are in a lowpaid job that leaves you relient on any subsidy from the taxpayer you are clearly underpaid.
2, Again with the generalisations, even with the best access to education there will be significant numbers of underachivers who fail to learn. There is now a £9k a year disincentive to expanding on what education you left school with.
3, I would argue the point that a lot didn't and have got into positions through nepetism or membership of the right Lodge. Your definition of hard work isn't one most workers would recognise especially as you claim that's what you are doing now. Delegating responsibility and raking in a fortune to do it isn't what I call hard work. A real days work would kill them.
4, If they arn't disgusted they should be as the reason they pay so much is so as those with real wealth don't have to.
[quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: There's a theme in a lot of posts, I know this bloke, or at least I claim to, and I'm going to use him as an example so as to make a sweeping generalisation about people on benefits. I'm allowed to be a hateful as I want when I'm kicking these people who are down and if I can I'll chuck a bit of racism for good measure. The reason there are SOME people who are better off on benefits than in work is that the wages are crap and fall well short of a living wage leaving many workers still relient on benefits. Until this addressed the walfare bill will continue to rise, not as a result of those out of work but through the increasing numbers of low paid workers who's wages are subsidised by the taxpayer.[/p][/quote]eh? I fail to understand your point. Are you saying some workers arent paid enough money? If this is the case could they not do two jobs ? Could they not retrain or educate themselves to have a better earning potential. With the recent cut backs on the Tax credits system this has addressed the balaqnce you are stating so I fail to see your point[/p][/quote]You're not going to make yourself look stupid again are you Andy? Too right I'm saying some workers arn't paid enough. If someone is working full time and the company that employs them is turning over a profit why the hell should he have to be subsidised by the taxpayer or take on a second job? Retraining or education requires a level of education to build on that in many cases our schools have failed to equip them with. They are however easily exploited by the capitalist psychopaths who wouldn't know empathy if it slapped them in the face. In many cases the massive salaries paid at the top pale into insignificance when compaired to their earnings from playing around with accumulated wealth, little of which will ever be scrutinised by the revenue and customs. The average worker has every right to be disgusted at the level of tax they are having to pay but they are miss directing their anger and failing to see the real causes.[/p][/quote]well seen as you clearly should work as an Economist So your point is (just so I understand as you try and make yourself appear to be educated) 1) Workers arent paid enough 2) Schools have failed the aforementioned workers so they have no ability to educate themselves further 3) You claim CEO's or similar standings in companies are overpaid 4) You claim that in your words "the average worker is disgusted at the levels of tax they pay" Ok lets look at your points 1) Like I said earlier if you are on a low wage you are subsidised by Tax Credits. Most people including myself would agree this is fair as at least they are contributing in one form or another. Now that the scales have also been lowered although not "fair" to some "average" workers I wouldnt say many have a problem with this 2) You claim education has ruined low earners ambition. Sorry but that is complete b0llocks. Everyone in this country gets educated for free to a standard most countries could only dream of. If these students then choose to not build on this this is there problem not the governments or anyone elses. 3) I would argue the point that a lot of high paid executives have worked hard to achieve their standings in a company. Anyone can go into a company and through hard work and training work their way up should they have the will and desire. So I will ask again why shouldnt they be paid more if at the end of the day its them running the business and employing how ever many people. 4) I think most "average" workers arent really disgusted in paying tax. I would argue that the vast majority accept they contribute to society. The welfare state is a great thing and most will agree with this but you know what your "average" worker is sick off...People not pulling their weight because they think the state owes them a living. Your stance on things just demonstrates you are representing the bone idle of society[/p][/quote]You truely are a clown 1, if you are in a lowpaid job that leaves you relient on any subsidy from the taxpayer you are clearly underpaid. 2, Again with the generalisations, even with the best access to education there will be significant numbers of underachivers who fail to learn. There is now a £9k a year disincentive to expanding on what education you left school with. 3, I would argue the point that a lot didn't and have got into positions through nepetism or membership of the right Lodge. Your definition of hard work isn't one most workers would recognise especially as you claim that's what you are doing now. Delegating responsibility and raking in a fortune to do it isn't what I call hard work. A real days work would kill them. 4, If they arn't disgusted they should be as the reason they pay so much is so as those with real wealth don't have to. RollandSmoke
  • Score: 0

4:09pm Mon 3 Dec 12

webess says...

Andy2010 wrote:
undercliffebantam wrote:
Yes Im the problem for working and paying my taxes and bills out of my pocket I think maybe you are right....maybe I am a prize pillock as clearly I would have less hassle in life if I just signed on JSA, claimed housing benefit, Had a couple more kids, claimed Council tax benefit, got free school meals for aforementioned children, free school uniforms and not to mention free medical prescriptions. Dont forget Child Tax Credits.!!!!
Sorry forgot that

Oh and also

Expenses paid travelling to and from interviews

Social Fund grants

"Decorating" grants

Legal Aid

Free Dental

Free Vetcare (although why you shoudl have pets when you cant afford it I dont know)

hell I can even get the social to pay for my funeral !

To name a few
There's also the small matter of the Church of Englands assets - around five billion pounds...and tax exempt status.
[quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]undercliffebantam[/bold] wrote: Yes Im the problem for working and paying my taxes and bills out of my pocket I think maybe you are right....maybe I am a prize pillock as clearly I would have less hassle in life if I just signed on JSA, claimed housing benefit, Had a couple more kids, claimed Council tax benefit, got free school meals for aforementioned children, free school uniforms and not to mention free medical prescriptions. Dont forget Child Tax Credits.!!!![/p][/quote]Sorry forgot that Oh and also Expenses paid travelling to and from interviews Social Fund grants "Decorating" grants Legal Aid Free Dental Free Vetcare (although why you shoudl have pets when you cant afford it I dont know) hell I can even get the social to pay for my funeral ! To name a few[/p][/quote]There's also the small matter of the Church of Englands assets - around five billion pounds...and tax exempt status. webess
  • Score: 0

4:14pm Mon 3 Dec 12

RollandSmoke says...

Shelfrhino wrote:
Who cares what a bishop, or any other religious leader thinks.
Religion is for the weak willed and desperate and their opinion has nothing to do with what goes on in the real world.

Here's a few things that should help the country save a few quid for the hard pressed taxpayer.

Family allowance should be limited to two kids, if you want more than that, you pay for them.
Housing benefit should be slashed, if you can't afford to put a roof over your families head, don't have a family.
Disability cars should be done away with, seems like everybody who is related to anyone with a limp is entitled to one.
No IVF or other vanity treatments on the NHS.
No foreigner who has contributed nothing should be allowed benefits or healthcare.
All foreigners convicted of a crime should be deported immediately.
All foreign aid to cease immediately.
All substance abusers to have all benefits stopped.
I wonder what that rant would sound like in German? Is this your final solution or just a work in progress?
[quote][p][bold]Shelfrhino[/bold] wrote: Who cares what a bishop, or any other religious leader thinks. Religion is for the weak willed and desperate and their opinion has nothing to do with what goes on in the real world. Here's a few things that should help the country save a few quid for the hard pressed taxpayer. Family allowance should be limited to two kids, if you want more than that, you pay for them. Housing benefit should be slashed, if you can't afford to put a roof over your families head, don't have a family. Disability cars should be done away with, seems like everybody who is related to anyone with a limp is entitled to one. No IVF or other vanity treatments on the NHS. No foreigner who has contributed nothing should be allowed benefits or healthcare. All foreigners convicted of a crime should be deported immediately. All foreign aid to cease immediately. All substance abusers to have all benefits stopped.[/p][/quote]I wonder what that rant would sound like in German? Is this your final solution or just a work in progress? RollandSmoke
  • Score: 0

4:25pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Parz says...

RollandSmoke wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote: There's a theme in a lot of posts, I know this bloke, or at least I claim to, and I'm going to use him as an example so as to make a sweeping generalisation about people on benefits. I'm allowed to be a hateful as I want when I'm kicking these people who are down and if I can I'll chuck a bit of racism for good measure. The reason there are SOME people who are better off on benefits than in work is that the wages are crap and fall well short of a living wage leaving many workers still relient on benefits. Until this addressed the walfare bill will continue to rise, not as a result of those out of work but through the increasing numbers of low paid workers who's wages are subsidised by the taxpayer.
eh? I fail to understand your point. Are you saying some workers arent paid enough money? If this is the case could they not do two jobs ? Could they not retrain or educate themselves to have a better earning potential. With the recent cut backs on the Tax credits system this has addressed the balaqnce you are stating so I fail to see your point
You're not going to make yourself look stupid again are you Andy? Too right I'm saying some workers arn't paid enough. If someone is working full time and the company that employs them is turning over a profit why the hell should he have to be subsidised by the taxpayer or take on a second job? Retraining or education requires a level of education to build on that in many cases our schools have failed to equip them with. They are however easily exploited by the capitalist psychopaths who wouldn't know empathy if it slapped them in the face. In many cases the massive salaries paid at the top pale into insignificance when compaired to their earnings from playing around with accumulated wealth, little of which will ever be scrutinised by the revenue and customs. The average worker has every right to be disgusted at the level of tax they are having to pay but they are miss directing their anger and failing to see the real causes.
"a level of education to build on that in many cases our schools have failed to equip them with"...

Utter ****.

I attended the school that was where the Bradford Academy is now (it was at the time BCCC, some people will remember it as Fairfax) which was repeatedly condemned as one of the worst schools in Bradford, if not the country. Yet I came away with a decent job. why/ Because I worked my arse off through school and afterwards to makre sure I did. You can't blame schools for the legions of feckless layabouts we have scrounging a living off my taxes. These sorts of people are the ones that did absolutely f**k all when they were growing up to ensure they had a secure future and now they expect the state to provide for them.

Before anyone rips my head off, I'm not talking about people who are genuinely unable to work (through disablility etc) OR people who have lost thier jobs due to the economic climate and are searching for another. The people I'm talking about are the ones who would rather live off the state than drag thier sorry backsides out to a job because it's hard work. or the types who decide they don't want to do the jobs that are there because they're too good for that job. There is no reason why these people can't re-train for a profession other that utter bone idleness. Start putting some effort in and improve your life yourself.
[quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: There's a theme in a lot of posts, I know this bloke, or at least I claim to, and I'm going to use him as an example so as to make a sweeping generalisation about people on benefits. I'm allowed to be a hateful as I want when I'm kicking these people who are down and if I can I'll chuck a bit of racism for good measure. The reason there are SOME people who are better off on benefits than in work is that the wages are crap and fall well short of a living wage leaving many workers still relient on benefits. Until this addressed the walfare bill will continue to rise, not as a result of those out of work but through the increasing numbers of low paid workers who's wages are subsidised by the taxpayer.[/p][/quote]eh? I fail to understand your point. Are you saying some workers arent paid enough money? If this is the case could they not do two jobs ? Could they not retrain or educate themselves to have a better earning potential. With the recent cut backs on the Tax credits system this has addressed the balaqnce you are stating so I fail to see your point[/p][/quote]You're not going to make yourself look stupid again are you Andy? Too right I'm saying some workers arn't paid enough. If someone is working full time and the company that employs them is turning over a profit why the hell should he have to be subsidised by the taxpayer or take on a second job? Retraining or education requires a level of education to build on that in many cases our schools have failed to equip them with. They are however easily exploited by the capitalist psychopaths who wouldn't know empathy if it slapped them in the face. In many cases the massive salaries paid at the top pale into insignificance when compaired to their earnings from playing around with accumulated wealth, little of which will ever be scrutinised by the revenue and customs. The average worker has every right to be disgusted at the level of tax they are having to pay but they are miss directing their anger and failing to see the real causes.[/p][/quote]"a level of education to build on that in many cases our schools have failed to equip them with"... Utter ****. I attended the school that was where the Bradford Academy is now (it was at the time BCCC, some people will remember it as Fairfax) which was repeatedly condemned as one of the worst schools in Bradford, if not the country. Yet I came away with a decent job. why/ Because I worked my arse off through school and afterwards to makre sure I did. You can't blame schools for the legions of feckless layabouts we have scrounging a living off my taxes. These sorts of people are the ones that did absolutely f**k all when they were growing up to ensure they had a secure future and now they expect the state to provide for them. Before anyone rips my head off, I'm not talking about people who are genuinely unable to work (through disablility etc) OR people who have lost thier jobs due to the economic climate and are searching for another. The people I'm talking about are the ones who would rather live off the state than drag thier sorry backsides out to a job because it's hard work. or the types who decide they don't want to do the jobs that are there because they're too good for that job. There is no reason why these people can't re-train for a profession other that utter bone idleness. Start putting some effort in and improve your life yourself. Parz
  • Score: 0

4:26pm Mon 3 Dec 12

ravacity says...

maybe the bishop of bradford is getting a bit nervous,he could be on job seekers allowance himself soon when when the diocese upsticks and moves to wakefield.
maybe the bishop of bradford is getting a bit nervous,he could be on job seekers allowance himself soon when when the diocese upsticks and moves to wakefield. ravacity
  • Score: 0

4:29pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Andy2010 says...

RollandSmoke wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote: There's a theme in a lot of posts, I know this bloke, or at least I claim to, and I'm going to use him as an example so as to make a sweeping generalisation about people on benefits. I'm allowed to be a hateful as I want when I'm kicking these people who are down and if I can I'll chuck a bit of racism for good measure. The reason there are SOME people who are better off on benefits than in work is that the wages are crap and fall well short of a living wage leaving many workers still relient on benefits. Until this addressed the walfare bill will continue to rise, not as a result of those out of work but through the increasing numbers of low paid workers who's wages are subsidised by the taxpayer.
eh? I fail to understand your point. Are you saying some workers arent paid enough money? If this is the case could they not do two jobs ? Could they not retrain or educate themselves to have a better earning potential. With the recent cut backs on the Tax credits system this has addressed the balaqnce you are stating so I fail to see your point
You're not going to make yourself look stupid again are you Andy? Too right I'm saying some workers arn't paid enough. If someone is working full time and the company that employs them is turning over a profit why the hell should he have to be subsidised by the taxpayer or take on a second job? Retraining or education requires a level of education to build on that in many cases our schools have failed to equip them with. They are however easily exploited by the capitalist psychopaths who wouldn't know empathy if it slapped them in the face. In many cases the massive salaries paid at the top pale into insignificance when compaired to their earnings from playing around with accumulated wealth, little of which will ever be scrutinised by the revenue and customs. The average worker has every right to be disgusted at the level of tax they are having to pay but they are miss directing their anger and failing to see the real causes.
well seen as you clearly should work as an Economist So your point is (just so I understand as you try and make yourself appear to be educated) 1) Workers arent paid enough 2) Schools have failed the aforementioned workers so they have no ability to educate themselves further 3) You claim CEO's or similar standings in companies are overpaid 4) You claim that in your words "the average worker is disgusted at the levels of tax they pay" Ok lets look at your points 1) Like I said earlier if you are on a low wage you are subsidised by Tax Credits. Most people including myself would agree this is fair as at least they are contributing in one form or another. Now that the scales have also been lowered although not "fair" to some "average" workers I wouldnt say many have a problem with this 2) You claim education has ruined low earners ambition. Sorry but that is complete b0llocks. Everyone in this country gets educated for free to a standard most countries could only dream of. If these students then choose to not build on this this is there problem not the governments or anyone elses. 3) I would argue the point that a lot of high paid executives have worked hard to achieve their standings in a company. Anyone can go into a company and through hard work and training work their way up should they have the will and desire. So I will ask again why shouldnt they be paid more if at the end of the day its them running the business and employing how ever many people. 4) I think most "average" workers arent really disgusted in paying tax. I would argue that the vast majority accept they contribute to society. The welfare state is a great thing and most will agree with this but you know what your "average" worker is sick off...People not pulling their weight because they think the state owes them a living. Your stance on things just demonstrates you are representing the bone idle of society
You truely are a clown 1, if you are in a lowpaid job that leaves you relient on any subsidy from the taxpayer you are clearly underpaid. 2, Again with the generalisations, even with the best access to education there will be significant numbers of underachivers who fail to learn. There is now a £9k a year disincentive to expanding on what education you left school with. 3, I would argue the point that a lot didn't and have got into positions through nepetism or membership of the right Lodge. Your definition of hard work isn't one most workers would recognise especially as you claim that's what you are doing now. Delegating responsibility and raking in a fortune to do it isn't what I call hard work. A real days work would kill them. 4, If they arn't disgusted they should be as the reason they pay so much is so as those with real wealth don't have to.
Will just leave you and ALP to troll these forums as cant be bothered

I would suggest you focus your energies on gaining employment
[quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: There's a theme in a lot of posts, I know this bloke, or at least I claim to, and I'm going to use him as an example so as to make a sweeping generalisation about people on benefits. I'm allowed to be a hateful as I want when I'm kicking these people who are down and if I can I'll chuck a bit of racism for good measure. The reason there are SOME people who are better off on benefits than in work is that the wages are crap and fall well short of a living wage leaving many workers still relient on benefits. Until this addressed the walfare bill will continue to rise, not as a result of those out of work but through the increasing numbers of low paid workers who's wages are subsidised by the taxpayer.[/p][/quote]eh? I fail to understand your point. Are you saying some workers arent paid enough money? If this is the case could they not do two jobs ? Could they not retrain or educate themselves to have a better earning potential. With the recent cut backs on the Tax credits system this has addressed the balaqnce you are stating so I fail to see your point[/p][/quote]You're not going to make yourself look stupid again are you Andy? Too right I'm saying some workers arn't paid enough. If someone is working full time and the company that employs them is turning over a profit why the hell should he have to be subsidised by the taxpayer or take on a second job? Retraining or education requires a level of education to build on that in many cases our schools have failed to equip them with. They are however easily exploited by the capitalist psychopaths who wouldn't know empathy if it slapped them in the face. In many cases the massive salaries paid at the top pale into insignificance when compaired to their earnings from playing around with accumulated wealth, little of which will ever be scrutinised by the revenue and customs. The average worker has every right to be disgusted at the level of tax they are having to pay but they are miss directing their anger and failing to see the real causes.[/p][/quote]well seen as you clearly should work as an Economist So your point is (just so I understand as you try and make yourself appear to be educated) 1) Workers arent paid enough 2) Schools have failed the aforementioned workers so they have no ability to educate themselves further 3) You claim CEO's or similar standings in companies are overpaid 4) You claim that in your words "the average worker is disgusted at the levels of tax they pay" Ok lets look at your points 1) Like I said earlier if you are on a low wage you are subsidised by Tax Credits. Most people including myself would agree this is fair as at least they are contributing in one form or another. Now that the scales have also been lowered although not "fair" to some "average" workers I wouldnt say many have a problem with this 2) You claim education has ruined low earners ambition. Sorry but that is complete b0llocks. Everyone in this country gets educated for free to a standard most countries could only dream of. If these students then choose to not build on this this is there problem not the governments or anyone elses. 3) I would argue the point that a lot of high paid executives have worked hard to achieve their standings in a company. Anyone can go into a company and through hard work and training work their way up should they have the will and desire. So I will ask again why shouldnt they be paid more if at the end of the day its them running the business and employing how ever many people. 4) I think most "average" workers arent really disgusted in paying tax. I would argue that the vast majority accept they contribute to society. The welfare state is a great thing and most will agree with this but you know what your "average" worker is sick off...People not pulling their weight because they think the state owes them a living. Your stance on things just demonstrates you are representing the bone idle of society[/p][/quote]You truely are a clown 1, if you are in a lowpaid job that leaves you relient on any subsidy from the taxpayer you are clearly underpaid. 2, Again with the generalisations, even with the best access to education there will be significant numbers of underachivers who fail to learn. There is now a £9k a year disincentive to expanding on what education you left school with. 3, I would argue the point that a lot didn't and have got into positions through nepetism or membership of the right Lodge. Your definition of hard work isn't one most workers would recognise especially as you claim that's what you are doing now. Delegating responsibility and raking in a fortune to do it isn't what I call hard work. A real days work would kill them. 4, If they arn't disgusted they should be as the reason they pay so much is so as those with real wealth don't have to.[/p][/quote]Will just leave you and ALP to troll these forums as cant be bothered I would suggest you focus your energies on gaining employment Andy2010
  • Score: 0

4:30pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Andy2010 says...

Parz wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote: There's a theme in a lot of posts, I know this bloke, or at least I claim to, and I'm going to use him as an example so as to make a sweeping generalisation about people on benefits. I'm allowed to be a hateful as I want when I'm kicking these people who are down and if I can I'll chuck a bit of racism for good measure. The reason there are SOME people who are better off on benefits than in work is that the wages are crap and fall well short of a living wage leaving many workers still relient on benefits. Until this addressed the walfare bill will continue to rise, not as a result of those out of work but through the increasing numbers of low paid workers who's wages are subsidised by the taxpayer.
eh? I fail to understand your point. Are you saying some workers arent paid enough money? If this is the case could they not do two jobs ? Could they not retrain or educate themselves to have a better earning potential. With the recent cut backs on the Tax credits system this has addressed the balaqnce you are stating so I fail to see your point
You're not going to make yourself look stupid again are you Andy? Too right I'm saying some workers arn't paid enough. If someone is working full time and the company that employs them is turning over a profit why the hell should he have to be subsidised by the taxpayer or take on a second job? Retraining or education requires a level of education to build on that in many cases our schools have failed to equip them with. They are however easily exploited by the capitalist psychopaths who wouldn't know empathy if it slapped them in the face. In many cases the massive salaries paid at the top pale into insignificance when compaired to their earnings from playing around with accumulated wealth, little of which will ever be scrutinised by the revenue and customs. The average worker has every right to be disgusted at the level of tax they are having to pay but they are miss directing their anger and failing to see the real causes.
"a level of education to build on that in many cases our schools have failed to equip them with"... Utter ****. I attended the school that was where the Bradford Academy is now (it was at the time BCCC, some people will remember it as Fairfax) which was repeatedly condemned as one of the worst schools in Bradford, if not the country. Yet I came away with a decent job. why/ Because I worked my arse off through school and afterwards to makre sure I did. You can't blame schools for the legions of feckless layabouts we have scrounging a living off my taxes. These sorts of people are the ones that did absolutely f**k all when they were growing up to ensure they had a secure future and now they expect the state to provide for them. Before anyone rips my head off, I'm not talking about people who are genuinely unable to work (through disablility etc) OR people who have lost thier jobs due to the economic climate and are searching for another. The people I'm talking about are the ones who would rather live off the state than drag thier sorry backsides out to a job because it's hard work. or the types who decide they don't want to do the jobs that are there because they're too good for that job. There is no reason why these people can't re-train for a profession other that utter bone idleness. Start putting some effort in and improve your life yourself.
You are right my friend

Alas the Trolls around here Rolland and ALP wont see it that way as everything is "someones else fault"
[quote][p][bold]Parz[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: There's a theme in a lot of posts, I know this bloke, or at least I claim to, and I'm going to use him as an example so as to make a sweeping generalisation about people on benefits. I'm allowed to be a hateful as I want when I'm kicking these people who are down and if I can I'll chuck a bit of racism for good measure. The reason there are SOME people who are better off on benefits than in work is that the wages are crap and fall well short of a living wage leaving many workers still relient on benefits. Until this addressed the walfare bill will continue to rise, not as a result of those out of work but through the increasing numbers of low paid workers who's wages are subsidised by the taxpayer.[/p][/quote]eh? I fail to understand your point. Are you saying some workers arent paid enough money? If this is the case could they not do two jobs ? Could they not retrain or educate themselves to have a better earning potential. With the recent cut backs on the Tax credits system this has addressed the balaqnce you are stating so I fail to see your point[/p][/quote]You're not going to make yourself look stupid again are you Andy? Too right I'm saying some workers arn't paid enough. If someone is working full time and the company that employs them is turning over a profit why the hell should he have to be subsidised by the taxpayer or take on a second job? Retraining or education requires a level of education to build on that in many cases our schools have failed to equip them with. They are however easily exploited by the capitalist psychopaths who wouldn't know empathy if it slapped them in the face. In many cases the massive salaries paid at the top pale into insignificance when compaired to their earnings from playing around with accumulated wealth, little of which will ever be scrutinised by the revenue and customs. The average worker has every right to be disgusted at the level of tax they are having to pay but they are miss directing their anger and failing to see the real causes.[/p][/quote]"a level of education to build on that in many cases our schools have failed to equip them with"... Utter ****. I attended the school that was where the Bradford Academy is now (it was at the time BCCC, some people will remember it as Fairfax) which was repeatedly condemned as one of the worst schools in Bradford, if not the country. Yet I came away with a decent job. why/ Because I worked my arse off through school and afterwards to makre sure I did. You can't blame schools for the legions of feckless layabouts we have scrounging a living off my taxes. These sorts of people are the ones that did absolutely f**k all when they were growing up to ensure they had a secure future and now they expect the state to provide for them. Before anyone rips my head off, I'm not talking about people who are genuinely unable to work (through disablility etc) OR people who have lost thier jobs due to the economic climate and are searching for another. The people I'm talking about are the ones who would rather live off the state than drag thier sorry backsides out to a job because it's hard work. or the types who decide they don't want to do the jobs that are there because they're too good for that job. There is no reason why these people can't re-train for a profession other that utter bone idleness. Start putting some effort in and improve your life yourself.[/p][/quote]You are right my friend Alas the Trolls around here Rolland and ALP wont see it that way as everything is "someones else fault" Andy2010
  • Score: 0

4:39pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Shelfrhino says...

RollandSmoke wrote:
Shelfrhino wrote:
Who cares what a bishop, or any other religious leader thinks.
Religion is for the weak willed and desperate and their opinion has nothing to do with what goes on in the real world.

Here's a few things that should help the country save a few quid for the hard pressed taxpayer.

Family allowance should be limited to two kids, if you want more than that, you pay for them.
Housing benefit should be slashed, if you can't afford to put a roof over your families head, don't have a family.
Disability cars should be done away with, seems like everybody who is related to anyone with a limp is entitled to one.
No IVF or other vanity treatments on the NHS.
No foreigner who has contributed nothing should be allowed benefits or healthcare.
All foreigners convicted of a crime should be deported immediately.
All foreign aid to cease immediately.
All substance abusers to have all benefits stopped.
I wonder what that rant would sound like in German? Is this your final solution or just a work in progress?
It's a start, you wouldn't be around to see my final solution.
[quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shelfrhino[/bold] wrote: Who cares what a bishop, or any other religious leader thinks. Religion is for the weak willed and desperate and their opinion has nothing to do with what goes on in the real world. Here's a few things that should help the country save a few quid for the hard pressed taxpayer. Family allowance should be limited to two kids, if you want more than that, you pay for them. Housing benefit should be slashed, if you can't afford to put a roof over your families head, don't have a family. Disability cars should be done away with, seems like everybody who is related to anyone with a limp is entitled to one. No IVF or other vanity treatments on the NHS. No foreigner who has contributed nothing should be allowed benefits or healthcare. All foreigners convicted of a crime should be deported immediately. All foreign aid to cease immediately. All substance abusers to have all benefits stopped.[/p][/quote]I wonder what that rant would sound like in German? Is this your final solution or just a work in progress?[/p][/quote]It's a start, you wouldn't be around to see my final solution. Shelfrhino
  • Score: 0

4:51pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Another Landless Peasant says...

No matter what all the Right-wing reactionaries and materialists rant and ramble on about, the fact remains that the good Bishop is entirely justified in his scathing criticism of the Tory-lead shambles of a Coalition and their evil and entirely vindictive attack on the poor. After all, Jesus was the original Socialist, and as it says in the Bible; "man cannot serve two masters...Ye cannot serve God and mammon." ( KJ Matthew 6:24)

So a big well done and thank you to Bishop Baines for remaining loyal to his Christian beliefs and bravely taking a firm and righteous stance against the Beast that is Capitalism.
No matter what all the Right-wing reactionaries and materialists rant and ramble on about, the fact remains that the good Bishop is entirely justified in his scathing criticism of the Tory-lead shambles of a Coalition and their evil and entirely vindictive attack on the poor. After all, Jesus was the original Socialist, and as it says in the Bible; "man cannot serve two masters...Ye cannot serve God and mammon." ( KJ Matthew 6:24) So a big well done and thank you to Bishop Baines for remaining loyal to his Christian beliefs and bravely taking a firm and righteous stance against the Beast that is Capitalism. Another Landless Peasant
  • Score: 0

4:55pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Another Landless Peasant says...

Oh, and...just LOL @ Shelfrhino !
Oh, and...just LOL @ Shelfrhino ! Another Landless Peasant
  • Score: 0

5:01pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Another Landless Peasant says...

It is Keighley Conservative MP Kris Hopkins and Shipley Conservative MP Philip Davies that are out of step with most of the people in their wards.
It is Keighley Conservative MP Kris Hopkins and Shipley Conservative MP Philip Davies that are out of step with most of the people in their wards. Another Landless Peasant
  • Score: 0

5:04pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Andy2010 says...

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
No matter what all the Right-wing reactionaries and materialists rant and ramble on about, the fact remains that the good Bishop is entirely justified in his scathing criticism of the Tory-lead shambles of a Coalition and their evil and entirely vindictive attack on the poor. After all, Jesus was the original Socialist, and as it says in the Bible; "man cannot serve two masters...Ye cannot serve God and mammon." ( KJ Matthew 6:24) So a big well done and thank you to Bishop Baines for remaining loyal to his Christian beliefs and bravely taking a firm and righteous stance against the Beast that is Capitalism.
Whats a Mammon?

Is it a mythical creature...indeed in the same pretence as God
[quote][p][bold]Another Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: No matter what all the Right-wing reactionaries and materialists rant and ramble on about, the fact remains that the good Bishop is entirely justified in his scathing criticism of the Tory-lead shambles of a Coalition and their evil and entirely vindictive attack on the poor. After all, Jesus was the original Socialist, and as it says in the Bible; "man cannot serve two masters...Ye cannot serve God and mammon." ( KJ Matthew 6:24) So a big well done and thank you to Bishop Baines for remaining loyal to his Christian beliefs and bravely taking a firm and righteous stance against the Beast that is Capitalism.[/p][/quote]Whats a Mammon? Is it a mythical creature...indeed in the same pretence as God Andy2010
  • Score: 0

5:09pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Another Landless Peasant says...

I feel sorry for the poor Council workers, those who have already lost their jobs and those who are left behind somehow running the show whilst worrying about their jobs too. The Tories and their Lib counterparts are causing absolute chaos in this country. They have a lot to answer for already, but no one will forget this criminally insane Government for a very long time to come. This is probably THE worst government in England ever, or at least going right back to King John and his Norman Barons. They are pure evil and we must all do our bit to resist them at all costs. The very future of England depends upon it.
I feel sorry for the poor Council workers, those who have already lost their jobs and those who are left behind somehow running the show whilst worrying about their jobs too. The Tories and their Lib counterparts are causing absolute chaos in this country. They have a lot to answer for already, but no one will forget this criminally insane Government for a very long time to come. This is probably THE worst government in England ever, or at least going right back to King John and his Norman Barons. They are pure evil and we must all do our bit to resist them at all costs. The very future of England depends upon it. Another Landless Peasant
  • Score: 0

5:11pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Another Landless Peasant says...

Andy, there is no "pretencve" about the existence of God, as I have informed you previously when I revealed to you the proof.
Andy, there is no "pretencve" about the existence of God, as I have informed you previously when I revealed to you the proof. Another Landless Peasant
  • Score: 0

5:15pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Albion. says...

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
Andy, there is no "pretencve" about the existence of God, as I have informed you previously when I revealed to you the proof.
You have never proven anything of the sort! All you did was cut and paste theories from people other than yourself.
[quote][p][bold]Another Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: Andy, there is no "pretencve" about the existence of God, as I have informed you previously when I revealed to you the proof.[/p][/quote]You have never proven anything of the sort! All you did was cut and paste theories from people other than yourself. Albion.
  • Score: 0

5:21pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Brannigan says...

The church leaders are well meaning but woefully out of touch. The UK is the world leader in welfare provision. No other country provides such welfare support for their own citizens and certainly not for migrants. There is no-one actually living in real poverty in the UK except for the rare occasion when someone slips the net. Just because you cannot afford cigarettes and beer every day and you haven't got the latest 50" plasma tv does not mean you are in poverty. There is only so much money in the welfare purse. The real problem is the number of people who are cheating and taking more that their fair share. Spare a thought also for the people who do not claim any welfare benefits and support their own families. In these times of austerity they are also finding life difficult but who is going to speak for them or give them any support.
The church leaders are well meaning but woefully out of touch. The UK is the world leader in welfare provision. No other country provides such welfare support for their own citizens and certainly not for migrants. There is no-one actually living in real poverty in the UK except for the rare occasion when someone slips the net. Just because you cannot afford cigarettes and beer every day and you haven't got the latest 50" plasma tv does not mean you are in poverty. There is only so much money in the welfare purse. The real problem is the number of people who are cheating and taking more that their fair share. Spare a thought also for the people who do not claim any welfare benefits and support their own families. In these times of austerity they are also finding life difficult but who is going to speak for them or give them any support. Brannigan
  • Score: 0

5:23pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Albion. says...

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
I feel sorry for the poor Council workers, those who have already lost their jobs and those who are left behind somehow running the show whilst worrying about their jobs too. The Tories and their Lib counterparts are causing absolute chaos in this country. They have a lot to answer for already, but no one will forget this criminally insane Government for a very long time to come. This is probably THE worst government in England ever, or at least going right back to King John and his Norman Barons. They are pure evil and we must all do our bit to resist them at all costs. The very future of England depends upon it.
So how come every morning when I walk down the road I pass large houses costing anything up to a million pounds,and all of them occupied, and when I get to the main road there are stream after stream of twenty thousand pound plus cars (BMW series 3 is in the top ten sellers in this country) and I get into Leeds and it's absolutely heaving with shoppers and all the trains arriving at the station there are full?
You want to try mixing in better company instead of hanging out with the "lets bemoan our lot" brigade.
[quote][p][bold]Another Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: I feel sorry for the poor Council workers, those who have already lost their jobs and those who are left behind somehow running the show whilst worrying about their jobs too. The Tories and their Lib counterparts are causing absolute chaos in this country. They have a lot to answer for already, but no one will forget this criminally insane Government for a very long time to come. This is probably THE worst government in England ever, or at least going right back to King John and his Norman Barons. They are pure evil and we must all do our bit to resist them at all costs. The very future of England depends upon it.[/p][/quote]So how come every morning when I walk down the road I pass large houses costing anything up to a million pounds,and all of them occupied, and when I get to the main road there are stream after stream of twenty thousand pound plus cars (BMW series 3 is in the top ten sellers in this country) and I get into Leeds and it's absolutely heaving with shoppers and all the trains arriving at the station there are full? You want to try mixing in better company instead of hanging out with the "lets bemoan our lot" brigade. Albion.
  • Score: 0

5:25pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Andy2010 says...

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
Andy, there is no "pretencve" about the existence of God, as I have informed you previously when I revealed to you the proof.
LOL proof of god

If you can indeed prove the existence of a god...any god in context with the vast amount of religions then you are missing a trick

You could be famous beyond you wildest dreams not to mention rich

Mind you you wouldnt want the money as that would make you "rich"...you could give it all away though to your minnions on benefits?
[quote][p][bold]Another Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: Andy, there is no "pretencve" about the existence of God, as I have informed you previously when I revealed to you the proof.[/p][/quote]LOL proof of god If you can indeed prove the existence of a god...any god in context with the vast amount of religions then you are missing a trick You could be famous beyond you wildest dreams not to mention rich Mind you you wouldnt want the money as that would make you "rich"...you could give it all away though to your minnions on benefits? Andy2010
  • Score: 0

5:26pm Mon 3 Dec 12

cheeky1 says...

All the people who hate paying taxes for people on benefit...does this mean you also hate paying taxes to keep one of the biggest scronger and her family? The queen?
All the people who hate paying taxes for people on benefit...does this mean you also hate paying taxes to keep one of the biggest scronger and her family? The queen? cheeky1
  • Score: 0

5:43pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Albion. says...

cheeky1 wrote:
All the people who hate paying taxes for people on benefit...does this mean you also hate paying taxes to keep one of the biggest scronger and her family? The queen?
The Queen actually works and pays tax, the estimated income to this country from having a royal family and all the associated traditions, far exceeds what she draws from the state (civil list).
In many countries of similar or larger proportions to this, the cost of keeping a president is actually higher, and a president and his grey suited entourage are much less likely to attract tourists.
[quote][p][bold]cheeky1[/bold] wrote: All the people who hate paying taxes for people on benefit...does this mean you also hate paying taxes to keep one of the biggest scronger and her family? The queen?[/p][/quote]The Queen actually works and pays tax, the estimated income to this country from having a royal family and all the associated traditions, far exceeds what she draws from the state (civil list). In many countries of similar or larger proportions to this, the cost of keeping a president is actually higher, and a president and his grey suited entourage are much less likely to attract tourists. Albion.
  • Score: 0

6:32pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Tinybantam says...

Andy2010 wrote:
Another Landless Peasant wrote:
Andy, you are a prize pillock. people like you are the problem.
Yes Im the problem for working and paying my taxes and bills out of my pocket

I think maybe you are right....maybe I am a prize pillock as clearly I would have less hassle in life if I just signed on JSA, claimed housing benefit, Had a couple more kids, claimed Council tax benefit, got free school meals for aforementioned children, free school uniforms and not to mention free medical prescriptions.

Indeed each day I think I made the wrong choice in life to work hard and provide for my family when clearly I could have acted like yourself, just churned out loads of kids, claimed everything under the sun, voted Labour and then spent most of my days moaning that I wanted more
I agree very much with you Andy...I have worked my bo££ocks off for years and paid my taxes and dues, and it really grates on me when I see all these benefit scroungers who are playing the system, and refusing to get out of bed to go out to work. Most off them refuse well paid jobs, and just expect people like you and I to keep them at home in luxury. Another Landless Peasant might get a revolution but it might not be the one that he wants.....because people like you and I are getting sick and tired of those who are playing the system, and hopefully all that will be stopped at some point in the future. Don't get drawn into an argument with A.L.P. because he is exactly as you have described.....an Idiot!
[quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Another Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: Andy, you are a prize pillock. people like you are the problem.[/p][/quote]Yes Im the problem for working and paying my taxes and bills out of my pocket I think maybe you are right....maybe I am a prize pillock as clearly I would have less hassle in life if I just signed on JSA, claimed housing benefit, Had a couple more kids, claimed Council tax benefit, got free school meals for aforementioned children, free school uniforms and not to mention free medical prescriptions. Indeed each day I think I made the wrong choice in life to work hard and provide for my family when clearly I could have acted like yourself, just churned out loads of kids, claimed everything under the sun, voted Labour and then spent most of my days moaning that I wanted more[/p][/quote]I agree very much with you Andy...I have worked my bo££ocks off for years and paid my taxes and dues, and it really grates on me when I see all these benefit scroungers who are playing the system, and refusing to get out of bed to go out to work. Most off them refuse well paid jobs, and just expect people like you and I to keep them at home in luxury. Another Landless Peasant might get a revolution but it might not be the one that he wants.....because people like you and I are getting sick and tired of those who are playing the system, and hopefully all that will be stopped at some point in the future. Don't get drawn into an argument with A.L.P. because he is exactly as you have described.....an Idiot! Tinybantam
  • Score: 0

6:54pm Mon 3 Dec 12

BCFC1234 says...

I think the Bishop of Bradford should be asking employers why they would prefer to employ Eastern Europeans rather than unemployed Bradfordians.
Is it because they are the only ones looking for work, are prepared to work hard and actualy turn up for work on time and on a regular basis.
It is too easy for English people to breed and live off the rest of us who go to work. Lets hope for another crackdown in this weeks pre budget speech.
I think the Bishop of Bradford should be asking employers why they would prefer to employ Eastern Europeans rather than unemployed Bradfordians. Is it because they are the only ones looking for work, are prepared to work hard and actualy turn up for work on time and on a regular basis. It is too easy for English people to breed and live off the rest of us who go to work. Lets hope for another crackdown in this weeks pre budget speech. BCFC1234
  • Score: 0

7:02pm Mon 3 Dec 12

WayneRouke says...

It is fundamentally wrong to tax a working person almost to breaking point, then give it to a person who is able to work, but refuses to do so..
It is fundamentally wrong to tax a working person almost to breaking point, then give it to a person who is able to work, but refuses to do so.. WayneRouke
  • Score: 0

7:05pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Another Landless Peasant says...

Brannigan says...

"There is no-one actually living in real poverty in the UK except for the rare occasion when someone slips the net."

WRONG, very wrong. There are many thousands struggling to exist. People I personally know, often myself included, do not have sufficient food to eat or money to pay for gas/electricity. It is YOU who are completely out of touch, not the Church. You don't have a clue mate.
Brannigan says... "There is no-one actually living in real poverty in the UK except for the rare occasion when someone slips the net." WRONG, very wrong. There are many thousands struggling to exist. People I personally know, often myself included, do not have sufficient food to eat or money to pay for gas/electricity. It is YOU who are completely out of touch, not the Church. You don't have a clue mate. Another Landless Peasant
  • Score: 0

7:08pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Another Landless Peasant says...

"Are there no Workhouses, are there no prisons?"

SHAME ON YOU WHO DENY THE TRUTH.
"Are there no Workhouses, are there no prisons?" SHAME ON YOU WHO DENY THE TRUTH. Another Landless Peasant
  • Score: 0

7:17pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Andy2010 says...

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
Brannigan says...

"There is no-one actually living in real poverty in the UK except for the rare occasion when someone slips the net."

WRONG, very wrong. There are many thousands struggling to exist. People I personally know, often myself included, do not have sufficient food to eat or money to pay for gas/electricity. It is YOU who are completely out of touch, not the Church. You don't have a clue mate.
But you have sufficient income to smoke weed and have an Internet connection
[quote][p][bold]Another Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: Brannigan says... "There is no-one actually living in real poverty in the UK except for the rare occasion when someone slips the net." WRONG, very wrong. There are many thousands struggling to exist. People I personally know, often myself included, do not have sufficient food to eat or money to pay for gas/electricity. It is YOU who are completely out of touch, not the Church. You don't have a clue mate.[/p][/quote]But you have sufficient income to smoke weed and have an Internet connection Andy2010
  • Score: 0

7:19pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Albion. says...

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
"Are there no Workhouses, are there no prisons?"

SHAME ON YOU WHO DENY THE TRUTH.
Are there still muffins for tea?
[quote][p][bold]Another Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: "Are there no Workhouses, are there no prisons?" SHAME ON YOU WHO DENY THE TRUTH.[/p][/quote]Are there still muffins for tea? Albion.
  • Score: 0

7:19pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Another Landless Peasant says...

How do you know that I pay anything for those services?
How do you know that I pay anything for those services? Another Landless Peasant
  • Score: 0

7:23pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Another Landless Peasant says...

INCREASE JSA FROM A PALTRY £70 per week TO AT LEAST £100 PER WEEK.

ABOLISH SO-CALLED 'BACK-TO-WORK' SCAMS.


ABOLISH BEDROOM TAX.

INCREASE NAT. MIN. WAGE TO AT LEAST £8.00 PER HOUR.

TAX THE RICH.
INCREASE JSA FROM A PALTRY £70 per week TO AT LEAST £100 PER WEEK. ABOLISH SO-CALLED 'BACK-TO-WORK' SCAMS. ABOLISH BEDROOM TAX. INCREASE NAT. MIN. WAGE TO AT LEAST £8.00 PER HOUR. TAX THE RICH. Another Landless Peasant
  • Score: 0

8:51pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Outraged English Subject says...

Brannigan wrote:
The church leaders are well meaning but woefully out of touch. The UK is the world leader in welfare provision. No other country provides such welfare support for their own citizens and certainly not for migrants. There is no-one actually living in real poverty in the UK except for the rare occasion when someone slips the net. Just because you cannot afford cigarettes and beer every day and you haven't got the latest 50" plasma tv does not mean you are in poverty. There is only so much money in the welfare purse. The real problem is the number of people who are cheating and taking more that their fair share. Spare a thought also for the people who do not claim any welfare benefits and support their own families. In these times of austerity they are also finding life difficult but who is going to speak for them or give them any support.
well said.
[quote][p][bold]Brannigan[/bold] wrote: The church leaders are well meaning but woefully out of touch. The UK is the world leader in welfare provision. No other country provides such welfare support for their own citizens and certainly not for migrants. There is no-one actually living in real poverty in the UK except for the rare occasion when someone slips the net. Just because you cannot afford cigarettes and beer every day and you haven't got the latest 50" plasma tv does not mean you are in poverty. There is only so much money in the welfare purse. The real problem is the number of people who are cheating and taking more that their fair share. Spare a thought also for the people who do not claim any welfare benefits and support their own families. In these times of austerity they are also finding life difficult but who is going to speak for them or give them any support.[/p][/quote]well said. Outraged English Subject
  • Score: 0

8:53pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Outraged English Subject says...

"long live the Queen"
"long live the Queen" Outraged English Subject
  • Score: 0

9:01pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Another Landless Peasant says...

What's the Queen got to do with any of this?
What's the Queen got to do with any of this? Another Landless Peasant
  • Score: 0

9:06pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Outraged English Subject says...

Read an earlier post! You don’t help yourself on here do you. Asinine question you are asking!
Read an earlier post! You don’t help yourself on here do you. Asinine question you are asking! Outraged English Subject
  • Score: 0

9:08pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Another Landless Peasant says...

"And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."

Matthew 19:24


Plea for food aid as child poverty soars in Bradford

http://www.thetelegr
aphandargus.co.uk/ne
ws/9932227.Plea_for_
food_aid_as_child_po
verty_soars_in_Bradf
ord/


Sunday Times Rich List suggests UK's wealthiest defy recession

http://www.bbc.co.uk
/news/uk-17883101


The Sunday Times Rich List

http://www.thesunday
times.co.uk/sto/publ
ic/richlist/
"And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." Matthew 19:24 Plea for food aid as child poverty soars in Bradford http://www.thetelegr aphandargus.co.uk/ne ws/9932227.Plea_for_ food_aid_as_child_po verty_soars_in_Bradf ord/ Sunday Times Rich List suggests UK's wealthiest defy recession http://www.bbc.co.uk /news/uk-17883101 The Sunday Times Rich List http://www.thesunday times.co.uk/sto/publ ic/richlist/ Another Landless Peasant
  • Score: 0

9:12pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Albion. says...

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
"And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."

Matthew 19:24


Plea for food aid as child poverty soars in Bradford

http://www.thetelegr

aphandargus.co.uk/ne

ws/9932227.Plea_for_

food_aid_as_child_po

verty_soars_in_Bradf

ord/


Sunday Times Rich List suggests UK's wealthiest defy recession

http://www.bbc.co.uk

/news/uk-17883101


The Sunday Times Rich List

http://www.thesunday

times.co.uk/sto/publ

ic/richlist/
So?

They should have a Daily Mirror poor list :-)
[quote][p][bold]Another Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: "And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." Matthew 19:24 Plea for food aid as child poverty soars in Bradford http://www.thetelegr aphandargus.co.uk/ne ws/9932227.Plea_for_ food_aid_as_child_po verty_soars_in_Bradf ord/ Sunday Times Rich List suggests UK's wealthiest defy recession http://www.bbc.co.uk /news/uk-17883101 The Sunday Times Rich List http://www.thesunday times.co.uk/sto/publ ic/richlist/[/p][/quote]So? They should have a Daily Mirror poor list :-) Albion.
  • Score: 0

9:15pm Mon 3 Dec 12

SinnerSaint says...

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
Oh, and...just LOL @ Shelfrhino !
And just lol @ another lethargic parasite...
[quote][p][bold]Another Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: Oh, and...just LOL @ Shelfrhino ![/p][/quote]And just lol @ another lethargic parasite... SinnerSaint
  • Score: 0

9:37pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Another Landless Peasant says...

@ SinnerSaint

Up yours, moron.
@ SinnerSaint Up yours, moron. Another Landless Peasant
  • Score: 0

9:40pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Another Landless Peasant says...

The cause of the problem is that The Powers That Be interpret the Protestant Work Ethic far too seriously within their perceived task of 'Statecraft'. The Bishop should know what I mean.
The cause of the problem is that The Powers That Be interpret the Protestant Work Ethic far too seriously within their perceived task of 'Statecraft'. The Bishop should know what I mean. Another Landless Peasant
  • Score: 0

10:00pm Mon 3 Dec 12

WayneRouke says...

Just for ALP

http://lollerpedia.c
om/

Is ALP ERIK ???
Just for ALP http://lollerpedia.c om/ Is ALP ERIK ??? WayneRouke
  • Score: 0

10:15pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Shelfrhino says...

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
Oh, and...just LOL @ Shelfrhino !
Hopefully plenty to smile about on Wednesday when George slashes a few more billion off the welfare bill and give us hard working tax payers a break.
When the welfare state first came into being it required 5% on GDP to provide for it, now it is nearer to 15% and it's about time the balance was redressed.
[quote][p][bold]Another Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: Oh, and...just LOL @ Shelfrhino ![/p][/quote]Hopefully plenty to smile about on Wednesday when George slashes a few more billion off the welfare bill and give us hard working tax payers a break. When the welfare state first came into being it required 5% on GDP to provide for it, now it is nearer to 15% and it's about time the balance was redressed. Shelfrhino
  • Score: 0

10:26pm Mon 3 Dec 12

WayneRouke says...

Shelfrhino wrote:
Another Landless Peasant wrote:
Oh, and...just LOL @ Shelfrhino !
Hopefully plenty to smile about on Wednesday when George slashes a few more billion off the welfare bill and give us hard working tax payers a break.
When the welfare state first came into being it required 5% on GDP to provide for it, now it is nearer to 15% and it's about time the balance was redressed.
4 men in a pub. They go every week for one pint each, taking it in turn to buy the drinks. Lets call them A B C and D.

One week A states that he has lost his job and as such cannot afford to buy his round anymore.. B,C and D chip in a little each and all four have their pint.

This goes on for some weeks and all four are happy.

A while later, B states he has had his hours cut at work and he has his family to support, so he must make custbacks and so cant buy his round.

C And D say OK, and they stump up for B's round as well. This carries on and C And D think, well, we could afford it anyway and all four remain friends.

All of a Sudden, C reports he has been made redundant, and would it be possible for D to stump up for all four of them, every week, so the friendship can remain.

D thinks he is having none of that and disappears to another pub and another group of friends.


AND THAT, my friends is exactly how Taxation works.. If you take too much, those that are being taken from disappear elsewhere, with their money.
[quote][p][bold]Shelfrhino[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Another Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: Oh, and...just LOL @ Shelfrhino ![/p][/quote]Hopefully plenty to smile about on Wednesday when George slashes a few more billion off the welfare bill and give us hard working tax payers a break. When the welfare state first came into being it required 5% on GDP to provide for it, now it is nearer to 15% and it's about time the balance was redressed.[/p][/quote]4 men in a pub. They go every week for one pint each, taking it in turn to buy the drinks. Lets call them A B C and D. One week A states that he has lost his job and as such cannot afford to buy his round anymore.. B,C and D chip in a little each and all four have their pint. This goes on for some weeks and all four are happy. A while later, B states he has had his hours cut at work and he has his family to support, so he must make custbacks and so cant buy his round. C And D say OK, and they stump up for B's round as well. This carries on and C And D think, well, we could afford it anyway and all four remain friends. All of a Sudden, C reports he has been made redundant, and would it be possible for D to stump up for all four of them, every week, so the friendship can remain. D thinks he is having none of that and disappears to another pub and another group of friends. AND THAT, my friends is exactly how Taxation works.. If you take too much, those that are being taken from disappear elsewhere, with their money. WayneRouke
  • Score: 0

11:25pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Another Landless Peasant says...

Good riddance to them! Pass an Act of Parliament to seize their assets if they do disappear elsewhere!
Good riddance to them! Pass an Act of Parliament to seize their assets if they do disappear elsewhere! Another Landless Peasant
  • Score: 0

4:03am Tue 4 Dec 12

dellorri says...

Shelfrhino wrote:
Another Landless Peasant wrote:
Oh, and...just LOL @ Shelfrhino !
Hopefully plenty to smile about on Wednesday when George slashes a few more billion off the welfare bill and give us hard working tax payers a break.
When the welfare state first came into being it required 5% on GDP to provide for it, now it is nearer to 15% and it's about time the balance was redressed.
Oh there'll be plenty for you to laugh at, as long as you're not a public sector worker that is, because the wonderful George gave his autumn statement today after recieving reports from the ONBR I think it is, they're predicting further borrowing of £111 billion, 75,000 public sector jobs to go, and he announced on top of the last two years pay freeze they've had that when that ends their pay rises will be capped at 1%. Fuel duty will go up by 3p in sept. but not in january as planned. But to save me waffling on I'll post the link to it, and you can see a summary for yourself, oh and the deficit is due to last for at least two years beyond what they predicted, so things can only get better???

www . bbc.co.uk/news/uk-po
litics-15934564
[quote][p][bold]Shelfrhino[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Another Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: Oh, and...just LOL @ Shelfrhino ![/p][/quote]Hopefully plenty to smile about on Wednesday when George slashes a few more billion off the welfare bill and give us hard working tax payers a break. When the welfare state first came into being it required 5% on GDP to provide for it, now it is nearer to 15% and it's about time the balance was redressed.[/p][/quote]Oh there'll be plenty for you to laugh at, as long as you're not a public sector worker that is, because the wonderful George gave his autumn statement today after recieving reports from the ONBR I think it is, they're predicting further borrowing of £111 billion, 75,000 public sector jobs to go, and he announced on top of the last two years pay freeze they've had that when that ends their pay rises will be capped at 1%. Fuel duty will go up by 3p in sept. but not in january as planned. But to save me waffling on I'll post the link to it, and you can see a summary for yourself, oh and the deficit is due to last for at least two years beyond what they predicted, so things can only get better??? www . bbc.co.uk/news/uk-po litics-15934564 dellorri
  • Score: 0

4:09am Tue 4 Dec 12

Up with the partridge says...

undercliffebantam wrote:
What a complete barsteward has he ever tried existing on £71.00 a week its no joke, I can tell you I hope he and the rest of them rot in hell. How long will it take the British public to say this is enough, and do something about it where’s the labour party when you need them?

I suppose the answer is to go and get a job. Of course, those who have actually bothered to look recently will have found THERE ARE NO JOBS

I wonder when the Workhouse will rear its ugly head?
I will tell you where Labour is, at the bespoke tailors just like the rest of them. When will you learn that there is no difference between Tory, Labour and Lib Dem. They are all well healed middle class.
[quote][p][bold]undercliffebantam[/bold] wrote: What a complete barsteward has he ever tried existing on £71.00 a week its no joke, I can tell you I hope he and the rest of them rot in hell. How long will it take the British public to say this is enough, and do something about it where’s the labour party when you need them? I suppose the answer is to go and get a job. Of course, those who have actually bothered to look recently will have found THERE ARE NO JOBS I wonder when the Workhouse will rear its ugly head?[/p][/quote]I will tell you where Labour is, at the bespoke tailors just like the rest of them. When will you learn that there is no difference between Tory, Labour and Lib Dem. They are all well healed middle class. Up with the partridge
  • Score: 0

4:10am Tue 4 Dec 12

Up with the partridge says...

allannicho wrote:
Child benefit and housing allowance
Must be a tidy sum in Bradford?
Correct....reduce it now
[quote][p][bold]allannicho[/bold] wrote: Child benefit and housing allowance Must be a tidy sum in Bradford?[/p][/quote]Correct....reduce it now Up with the partridge
  • Score: 0

4:42am Tue 4 Dec 12

dellorri says...

markjoe wrote:
pellethead wrote:
thruth9211 wrote:
The benefit system should be changed, to promote work and not just to rely on state benefits

The bishops argunment is pointless.

It seems better not to work than working in this country

Those that dont work get free money, medicine and treatment, and those that work hard every **** day have to pay for their daily living

Food vouchers should be given to those on benefits, as it seem that they have enough money to spend on fags and alcohol

So why should we feel sorry for those on benefits, go to any other country and you wouldnt get benefits like the uk

The NHS is falling apart because people aged 16 + and under 60 will not pay for their medication, but pay for fags. There is no justice for the rest of us

Change the system i say. Those on benefits WORK WORK WORK and repay us back through you TAX

People are born idel, why work if the government pays

Any one who disagree with my statement, are mainly on benefits

"NO SUPRISE THERE"
total maximum benefits for a single male looking for a job under 25 living in bradford. JSA £ 56.25. housing benefit £57.73. Council tax benefit assuming living in band a property £ 12.27. total weekly maximum £126.25.

Minimum wage assuming 37.5 hours is £232.
dont tell me most people claiming benefits dont want to work. you are deluded fools.
Out of that £232 you've got to take the Tax & NI off, then there is travel to and from work, council tax, rent/mortgage, prescription charges, dentist charges.
here's a breakdown of your basic wage costs for a single man, I've worked it out for you ok?

Basic wage £232

Tax and NI per week £41.10

Council tax (band A) £12.27

Rent (1 bed flat) £65.00

Travel (weekly first) £19.00

Total costs. £138.37
Balance £ 93.63

Prescription cost £ 6.00 p/item
not a usual cost so not included in breakdown same as dental costs. Which vary. However prescription costs can be offset by pre-paid certificates, or if you have certain conditions by cost exemption certificates from your doctors practice. these cover you for ALL prescriptions.
So to summarise a single WORKING person is better off to the tune of £36 per week roughly than a claimant on JSA. Please bear in mind however this will change once the housing and council tax benefits for under 25's has been scrapped and they have been made homeless.
[quote][p][bold]markjoe[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pellethead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thruth9211[/bold] wrote: The benefit system should be changed, to promote work and not just to rely on state benefits The bishops argunment is pointless. It seems better not to work than working in this country Those that dont work get free money, medicine and treatment, and those that work hard every **** day have to pay for their daily living Food vouchers should be given to those on benefits, as it seem that they have enough money to spend on fags and alcohol So why should we feel sorry for those on benefits, go to any other country and you wouldnt get benefits like the uk The NHS is falling apart because people aged 16 + and under 60 will not pay for their medication, but pay for fags. There is no justice for the rest of us Change the system i say. Those on benefits WORK WORK WORK and repay us back through you TAX People are born idel, why work if the government pays Any one who disagree with my statement, are mainly on benefits "NO SUPRISE THERE"[/p][/quote]total maximum benefits for a single male looking for a job under 25 living in bradford. JSA £ 56.25. housing benefit £57.73. Council tax benefit assuming living in band a property £ 12.27. total weekly maximum £126.25. Minimum wage assuming 37.5 hours is £232. dont tell me most people claiming benefits dont want to work. you are deluded fools.[/p][/quote]Out of that £232 you've got to take the Tax & NI off, then there is travel to and from work, council tax, rent/mortgage, prescription charges, dentist charges.[/p][/quote]here's a breakdown of your basic wage costs for a single man, I've worked it out for you ok? Basic wage £232 Tax and NI per week £41.10 Council tax (band A) £12.27 Rent (1 bed flat) £65.00 Travel (weekly first) £19.00 Total costs. £138.37 Balance £ 93.63 Prescription cost £ 6.00 p/item not a usual cost so not included in breakdown same as dental costs. Which vary. However prescription costs can be offset by pre-paid certificates, or if you have certain conditions by cost exemption certificates from your doctors practice. these cover you for ALL prescriptions. So to summarise a single WORKING person is better off to the tune of £36 per week roughly than a claimant on JSA. Please bear in mind however this will change once the housing and council tax benefits for under 25's has been scrapped and they have been made homeless. dellorri
  • Score: 0

9:00am Tue 4 Dec 12

johnhem says...

Shelfrhino wrote:
Who cares what a bishop, or any other religious leader thinks.
Religion is for the weak willed and desperate and their opinion has nothing to do with what goes on in the real world.

Here's a few things that should help the country save a few quid for the hard pressed taxpayer.

Family allowance should be limited to two kids, if you want more than that, you pay for them.
Housing benefit should be slashed, if you can't afford to put a roof over your families head, don't have a family.
Disability cars should be done away with, seems like everybody who is related to anyone with a limp is entitled to one.
No IVF or other vanity treatments on the NHS.
No foreigner who has contributed nothing should be allowed benefits or healthcare.
All foreigners convicted of a crime should be deported immediately.
All foreign aid to cease immediately.
All substance abusers to have all benefits stopped.
i agree with almost all your points. you covered family on point one why bring it up again?
disability cars. THEY ARE NOT FREE!! i pay for mine every week, its actually leased when you look at it. similar deals can be got privately if you look for them. with that car i can get to appointments at st james's in leeds, without it i need hospital transport. 1 appointment costs more than my weeks lease,2 apps mean more than double on hospital transport.
[quote][p][bold]Shelfrhino[/bold] wrote: Who cares what a bishop, or any other religious leader thinks. Religion is for the weak willed and desperate and their opinion has nothing to do with what goes on in the real world. Here's a few things that should help the country save a few quid for the hard pressed taxpayer. Family allowance should be limited to two kids, if you want more than that, you pay for them. Housing benefit should be slashed, if you can't afford to put a roof over your families head, don't have a family. Disability cars should be done away with, seems like everybody who is related to anyone with a limp is entitled to one. No IVF or other vanity treatments on the NHS. No foreigner who has contributed nothing should be allowed benefits or healthcare. All foreigners convicted of a crime should be deported immediately. All foreign aid to cease immediately. All substance abusers to have all benefits stopped.[/p][/quote]i agree with almost all your points. you covered family on point one why bring it up again? disability cars. THEY ARE NOT FREE!! i pay for mine every week, its actually leased when you look at it. similar deals can be got privately if you look for them. with that car i can get to appointments at st james's in leeds, without it i need hospital transport. 1 appointment costs more than my weeks lease,2 apps mean more than double on hospital transport. johnhem
  • Score: 0

9:22am Tue 4 Dec 12

SinnerSaint says...

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
@ SinnerSaint

Up yours, moron.
Hahaha!! Please continue to entertain me, you work shy, skunk psychosis addled t1t!!

At least then I'm getting SOMETHING. Back for my tax pounds...
[quote][p][bold]Another Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: @ SinnerSaint Up yours, moron.[/p][/quote]Hahaha!! Please continue to entertain me, you work shy, skunk psychosis addled t1t!! At least then I'm getting SOMETHING. Back for my tax pounds... SinnerSaint
  • Score: 0

11:02am Tue 4 Dec 12

Another Landless Peasant says...

WHERE IS YOUR COMPASSION? WHERE IS YOUR EMPATHY FOR YOUR FELLOW MAN? ALL YOU RIGHT-WING NUTTERS SHOULD HANG YOUR HEADS IN SHAME, YOU ARE A DISGRACE TO MANKIND. GOD BLESS THE BISHOP FOR SPEAKING OUT AGAINST THIS WICKED GOVERNMENT.
WHERE IS YOUR COMPASSION? WHERE IS YOUR EMPATHY FOR YOUR FELLOW MAN? ALL YOU RIGHT-WING NUTTERS SHOULD HANG YOUR HEADS IN SHAME, YOU ARE A DISGRACE TO MANKIND. GOD BLESS THE BISHOP FOR SPEAKING OUT AGAINST THIS WICKED GOVERNMENT. Another Landless Peasant
  • Score: 0

11:41am Tue 4 Dec 12

RollandSmoke says...

The solutions offered by the rabid cap doffers would create work. More work for the NHS as they deal with the problems caused by malnutrition and bad diet. More work for the police when some refuse to starve and turn to crime. More work for the funeral directors and grave diggers when people either starve or freeze to death. It wouldn't get many unemployed into work however although more would end up on the sick and the jobseekers that remain would not have the fitness levels to take on much work. All the services that would see an upturn in their workload are taxpayer funded so the policies they advocate would actually see them paying more tax. Their total inability to see this bigger picture just goes to show that the rabid right are thick as.... although some are perfectly aware that all that would happen is that some would suffer extreme hardship and it amuses them because they are sick in the head.
The solutions offered by the rabid cap doffers would create work. More work for the NHS as they deal with the problems caused by malnutrition and bad diet. More work for the police when some refuse to starve and turn to crime. More work for the funeral directors and grave diggers when people either starve or freeze to death. It wouldn't get many unemployed into work however although more would end up on the sick and the jobseekers that remain would not have the fitness levels to take on much work. All the services that would see an upturn in their workload are taxpayer funded so the policies they advocate would actually see them paying more tax. Their total inability to see this bigger picture just goes to show that the rabid right are thick as.... although some are perfectly aware that all that would happen is that some would suffer extreme hardship and it amuses them because they are sick in the head. RollandSmoke
  • Score: 0

11:56am Tue 4 Dec 12

Andy2010 says...

RollandSmoke wrote:
The solutions offered by the rabid cap doffers would create work. More work for the NHS as they deal with the problems caused by malnutrition and bad diet. More work for the police when some refuse to starve and turn to crime. More work for the funeral directors and grave diggers when people either starve or freeze to death. It wouldn't get many unemployed into work however although more would end up on the sick and the jobseekers that remain would not have the fitness levels to take on much work. All the services that would see an upturn in their workload are taxpayer funded so the policies they advocate would actually see them paying more tax. Their total inability to see this bigger picture just goes to show that the rabid right are thick as.... although some are perfectly aware that all that would happen is that some would suffer extreme hardship and it amuses them because they are sick in the head.
You like really pushing the boundaries of reality dont ya

You make it sound like with these cut backs and future ones people are going to be starving and everyone out of work is going to be sleeping rough..grow up

Top and bottom of it even on the basic £70 a week handout thats plenty to feed yourself and pay for utilities. If its not please show me how not

Im sure the real starving people in parts of the world would be insulted at your suggestion that those in the UK who get a house, taxes paid and money every week for doing nothing are suffering
[quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: The solutions offered by the rabid cap doffers would create work. More work for the NHS as they deal with the problems caused by malnutrition and bad diet. More work for the police when some refuse to starve and turn to crime. More work for the funeral directors and grave diggers when people either starve or freeze to death. It wouldn't get many unemployed into work however although more would end up on the sick and the jobseekers that remain would not have the fitness levels to take on much work. All the services that would see an upturn in their workload are taxpayer funded so the policies they advocate would actually see them paying more tax. Their total inability to see this bigger picture just goes to show that the rabid right are thick as.... although some are perfectly aware that all that would happen is that some would suffer extreme hardship and it amuses them because they are sick in the head.[/p][/quote]You like really pushing the boundaries of reality dont ya You make it sound like with these cut backs and future ones people are going to be starving and everyone out of work is going to be sleeping rough..grow up Top and bottom of it even on the basic £70 a week handout thats plenty to feed yourself and pay for utilities. If its not please show me how not Im sure the real starving people in parts of the world would be insulted at your suggestion that those in the UK who get a house, taxes paid and money every week for doing nothing are suffering Andy2010
  • Score: 0

12:02pm Tue 4 Dec 12

Albion. says...

RollandSmoke wrote:
The solutions offered by the rabid cap doffers would create work. More work for the NHS as they deal with the problems caused by malnutrition and bad diet. More work for the police when some refuse to starve and turn to crime. More work for the funeral directors and grave diggers when people either starve or freeze to death. It wouldn't get many unemployed into work however although more would end up on the sick and the jobseekers that remain would not have the fitness levels to take on much work. All the services that would see an upturn in their workload are taxpayer funded so the policies they advocate would actually see them paying more tax. Their total inability to see this bigger picture just goes to show that the rabid right are thick as.... although some are perfectly aware that all that would happen is that some would suffer extreme hardship and it amuses them because they are sick in the head.
Well you won't get a more "rabid cap doffer" than a Bishop (or vicar of Bray).
The "sick in the head" (unfortunate souls) are those who wander aimlessly through a haze (of bewilderment or smoke) and need to be constantly pointed in the right direction, only to wander off track again, usually the same day as their benefits arrive. Those who are suffering genuine bewilderment have my sympathy and I don't begrudge sponsoring them, but you and ALP should be left to rot or freed from your misery, the world (well this bit of it) would be a better place for it.
[quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: The solutions offered by the rabid cap doffers would create work. More work for the NHS as they deal with the problems caused by malnutrition and bad diet. More work for the police when some refuse to starve and turn to crime. More work for the funeral directors and grave diggers when people either starve or freeze to death. It wouldn't get many unemployed into work however although more would end up on the sick and the jobseekers that remain would not have the fitness levels to take on much work. All the services that would see an upturn in their workload are taxpayer funded so the policies they advocate would actually see them paying more tax. Their total inability to see this bigger picture just goes to show that the rabid right are thick as.... although some are perfectly aware that all that would happen is that some would suffer extreme hardship and it amuses them because they are sick in the head.[/p][/quote]Well you won't get a more "rabid cap doffer" than a Bishop (or vicar of Bray). The "sick in the head" (unfortunate souls) are those who wander aimlessly through a haze (of bewilderment or smoke) and need to be constantly pointed in the right direction, only to wander off track again, usually the same day as their benefits arrive. Those who are suffering genuine bewilderment have my sympathy and I don't begrudge sponsoring them, but you and ALP should be left to rot or freed from your misery, the world (well this bit of it) would be a better place for it. Albion.
  • Score: 0

12:41pm Tue 4 Dec 12

RollandSmoke says...

Andy2010 wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote:
The solutions offered by the rabid cap doffers would create work. More work for the NHS as they deal with the problems caused by malnutrition and bad diet. More work for the police when some refuse to starve and turn to crime. More work for the funeral directors and grave diggers when people either starve or freeze to death. It wouldn't get many unemployed into work however although more would end up on the sick and the jobseekers that remain would not have the fitness levels to take on much work. All the services that would see an upturn in their workload are taxpayer funded so the policies they advocate would actually see them paying more tax. Their total inability to see this bigger picture just goes to show that the rabid right are thick as.... although some are perfectly aware that all that would happen is that some would suffer extreme hardship and it amuses them because they are sick in the head.
You like really pushing the boundaries of reality dont ya

You make it sound like with these cut backs and future ones people are going to be starving and everyone out of work is going to be sleeping rough..grow up

Top and bottom of it even on the basic £70 a week handout thats plenty to feed yourself and pay for utilities. If its not please show me how not

Im sure the real starving people in parts of the world would be insulted at your suggestion that those in the UK who get a house, taxes paid and money every week for doing nothing are suffering
Do the regular stories about the food banks seeing more and more people being refered to them pass you by? Do the ever increasing costs of basic utilities and food have no effect? As I've said to you before you arn't paying for them to have any sort of life you are paying so as they can hand their money over to utility companies in order to survive and that money goes into the pockets of shareholders. I won't waste any further time responding to you Andy as your blinkers are on way too tight and it's restricting the blood flow to your brain. There is one word to describe the mindset of yourself and others on here, evil, and I'm not going to remain silent while people like yourself call for children to be made to suffer for the failure of government and the safety net to be pulled out from beneath those increasing numbers of people who are falling, again due to a sick ideology that see people as nothing more than a commodity to be traded as cheaply as possible. You might be an "I'm all right Jack" but your not right in the head.
[quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: The solutions offered by the rabid cap doffers would create work. More work for the NHS as they deal with the problems caused by malnutrition and bad diet. More work for the police when some refuse to starve and turn to crime. More work for the funeral directors and grave diggers when people either starve or freeze to death. It wouldn't get many unemployed into work however although more would end up on the sick and the jobseekers that remain would not have the fitness levels to take on much work. All the services that would see an upturn in their workload are taxpayer funded so the policies they advocate would actually see them paying more tax. Their total inability to see this bigger picture just goes to show that the rabid right are thick as.... although some are perfectly aware that all that would happen is that some would suffer extreme hardship and it amuses them because they are sick in the head.[/p][/quote]You like really pushing the boundaries of reality dont ya You make it sound like with these cut backs and future ones people are going to be starving and everyone out of work is going to be sleeping rough..grow up Top and bottom of it even on the basic £70 a week handout thats plenty to feed yourself and pay for utilities. If its not please show me how not Im sure the real starving people in parts of the world would be insulted at your suggestion that those in the UK who get a house, taxes paid and money every week for doing nothing are suffering[/p][/quote]Do the regular stories about the food banks seeing more and more people being refered to them pass you by? Do the ever increasing costs of basic utilities and food have no effect? As I've said to you before you arn't paying for them to have any sort of life you are paying so as they can hand their money over to utility companies in order to survive and that money goes into the pockets of shareholders. I won't waste any further time responding to you Andy as your blinkers are on way too tight and it's restricting the blood flow to your brain. There is one word to describe the mindset of yourself and others on here, evil, and I'm not going to remain silent while people like yourself call for children to be made to suffer for the failure of government and the safety net to be pulled out from beneath those increasing numbers of people who are falling, again due to a sick ideology that see people as nothing more than a commodity to be traded as cheaply as possible. You might be an "I'm all right Jack" but your not right in the head. RollandSmoke
  • Score: 0

12:50pm Tue 4 Dec 12

Andy2010 says...

RollandSmoke wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote: The solutions offered by the rabid cap doffers would create work. More work for the NHS as they deal with the problems caused by malnutrition and bad diet. More work for the police when some refuse to starve and turn to crime. More work for the funeral directors and grave diggers when people either starve or freeze to death. It wouldn't get many unemployed into work however although more would end up on the sick and the jobseekers that remain would not have the fitness levels to take on much work. All the services that would see an upturn in their workload are taxpayer funded so the policies they advocate would actually see them paying more tax. Their total inability to see this bigger picture just goes to show that the rabid right are thick as.... although some are perfectly aware that all that would happen is that some would suffer extreme hardship and it amuses them because they are sick in the head.
You like really pushing the boundaries of reality dont ya You make it sound like with these cut backs and future ones people are going to be starving and everyone out of work is going to be sleeping rough..grow up Top and bottom of it even on the basic £70 a week handout thats plenty to feed yourself and pay for utilities. If its not please show me how not Im sure the real starving people in parts of the world would be insulted at your suggestion that those in the UK who get a house, taxes paid and money every week for doing nothing are suffering
Do the regular stories about the food banks seeing more and more people being refered to them pass you by? Do the ever increasing costs of basic utilities and food have no effect? As I've said to you before you arn't paying for them to have any sort of life you are paying so as they can hand their money over to utility companies in order to survive and that money goes into the pockets of shareholders. I won't waste any further time responding to you Andy as your blinkers are on way too tight and it's restricting the blood flow to your brain. There is one word to describe the mindset of yourself and others on here, evil, and I'm not going to remain silent while people like yourself call for children to be made to suffer for the failure of government and the safety net to be pulled out from beneath those increasing numbers of people who are falling, again due to a sick ideology that see people as nothing more than a commodity to be traded as cheaply as possible. You might be an "I'm all right Jack" but your not right in the head.
I would agree food banks are on the increase but look closer at their "customers". 90% of food handed out at food banks goes to families where 1 or more have substance abuse problems so the money they receive from the state is being used not as intended.

I fail to see your arguement about benefit money being spent on Utilities...so what ? Are you suggesting that all benefits claimants shoudl now get free gas, electric and water ?

I think the amount you smoke has clearly effected your judgement when it comes to day to day life. I would try going sober for a bit and clear your head. It might give you the enthusiasm to make something something of your life
[quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: The solutions offered by the rabid cap doffers would create work. More work for the NHS as they deal with the problems caused by malnutrition and bad diet. More work for the police when some refuse to starve and turn to crime. More work for the funeral directors and grave diggers when people either starve or freeze to death. It wouldn't get many unemployed into work however although more would end up on the sick and the jobseekers that remain would not have the fitness levels to take on much work. All the services that would see an upturn in their workload are taxpayer funded so the policies they advocate would actually see them paying more tax. Their total inability to see this bigger picture just goes to show that the rabid right are thick as.... although some are perfectly aware that all that would happen is that some would suffer extreme hardship and it amuses them because they are sick in the head.[/p][/quote]You like really pushing the boundaries of reality dont ya You make it sound like with these cut backs and future ones people are going to be starving and everyone out of work is going to be sleeping rough..grow up Top and bottom of it even on the basic £70 a week handout thats plenty to feed yourself and pay for utilities. If its not please show me how not Im sure the real starving people in parts of the world would be insulted at your suggestion that those in the UK who get a house, taxes paid and money every week for doing nothing are suffering[/p][/quote]Do the regular stories about the food banks seeing more and more people being refered to them pass you by? Do the ever increasing costs of basic utilities and food have no effect? As I've said to you before you arn't paying for them to have any sort of life you are paying so as they can hand their money over to utility companies in order to survive and that money goes into the pockets of shareholders. I won't waste any further time responding to you Andy as your blinkers are on way too tight and it's restricting the blood flow to your brain. There is one word to describe the mindset of yourself and others on here, evil, and I'm not going to remain silent while people like yourself call for children to be made to suffer for the failure of government and the safety net to be pulled out from beneath those increasing numbers of people who are falling, again due to a sick ideology that see people as nothing more than a commodity to be traded as cheaply as possible. You might be an "I'm all right Jack" but your not right in the head.[/p][/quote]I would agree food banks are on the increase but look closer at their "customers". 90% of food handed out at food banks goes to families where 1 or more have substance abuse problems so the money they receive from the state is being used not as intended. I fail to see your arguement about benefit money being spent on Utilities...so what ? Are you suggesting that all benefits claimants shoudl now get free gas, electric and water ? I think the amount you smoke has clearly effected your judgement when it comes to day to day life. I would try going sober for a bit and clear your head. It might give you the enthusiasm to make something something of your life Andy2010
  • Score: 0

1:10pm Tue 4 Dec 12

RollandSmoke says...

Andy2010 wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote: The solutions offered by the rabid cap doffers would create work. More work for the NHS as they deal with the problems caused by malnutrition and bad diet. More work for the police when some refuse to starve and turn to crime. More work for the funeral directors and grave diggers when people either starve or freeze to death. It wouldn't get many unemployed into work however although more would end up on the sick and the jobseekers that remain would not have the fitness levels to take on much work. All the services that would see an upturn in their workload are taxpayer funded so the policies they advocate would actually see them paying more tax. Their total inability to see this bigger picture just goes to show that the rabid right are thick as.... although some are perfectly aware that all that would happen is that some would suffer extreme hardship and it amuses them because they are sick in the head.
You like really pushing the boundaries of reality dont ya You make it sound like with these cut backs and future ones people are going to be starving and everyone out of work is going to be sleeping rough..grow up Top and bottom of it even on the basic £70 a week handout thats plenty to feed yourself and pay for utilities. If its not please show me how not Im sure the real starving people in parts of the world would be insulted at your suggestion that those in the UK who get a house, taxes paid and money every week for doing nothing are suffering
Do the regular stories about the food banks seeing more and more people being refered to them pass you by? Do the ever increasing costs of basic utilities and food have no effect? As I've said to you before you arn't paying for them to have any sort of life you are paying so as they can hand their money over to utility companies in order to survive and that money goes into the pockets of shareholders. I won't waste any further time responding to you Andy as your blinkers are on way too tight and it's restricting the blood flow to your brain. There is one word to describe the mindset of yourself and others on here, evil, and I'm not going to remain silent while people like yourself call for children to be made to suffer for the failure of government and the safety net to be pulled out from beneath those increasing numbers of people who are falling, again due to a sick ideology that see people as nothing more than a commodity to be traded as cheaply as possible. You might be an "I'm all right Jack" but your not right in the head.
I would agree food banks are on the increase but look closer at their "customers". 90% of food handed out at food banks goes to families where 1 or more have substance abuse problems so the money they receive from the state is being used not as intended.

I fail to see your arguement about benefit money being spent on Utilities...so what ? Are you suggesting that all benefits claimants shoudl now get free gas, electric and water ?

I think the amount you smoke has clearly effected your judgement when it comes to day to day life. I would try going sober for a bit and clear your head. It might give you the enthusiasm to make something something of your life
Ok one last reply. Back up your slanderous claim that 90% of food bank clients have substance abuse problem as I think you've pulled the figure from the same orifice that you talk out of.
You fail to see anyones point but I think that reflects more on you than it does the posters making the points. Your assumptions about me are way off the mark but who can begrude you your prejudices? These low blows are merely a sign that, on a subconscious level at least, you realise your loosing the argument.
[quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: The solutions offered by the rabid cap doffers would create work. More work for the NHS as they deal with the problems caused by malnutrition and bad diet. More work for the police when some refuse to starve and turn to crime. More work for the funeral directors and grave diggers when people either starve or freeze to death. It wouldn't get many unemployed into work however although more would end up on the sick and the jobseekers that remain would not have the fitness levels to take on much work. All the services that would see an upturn in their workload are taxpayer funded so the policies they advocate would actually see them paying more tax. Their total inability to see this bigger picture just goes to show that the rabid right are thick as.... although some are perfectly aware that all that would happen is that some would suffer extreme hardship and it amuses them because they are sick in the head.[/p][/quote]You like really pushing the boundaries of reality dont ya You make it sound like with these cut backs and future ones people are going to be starving and everyone out of work is going to be sleeping rough..grow up Top and bottom of it even on the basic £70 a week handout thats plenty to feed yourself and pay for utilities. If its not please show me how not Im sure the real starving people in parts of the world would be insulted at your suggestion that those in the UK who get a house, taxes paid and money every week for doing nothing are suffering[/p][/quote]Do the regular stories about the food banks seeing more and more people being refered to them pass you by? Do the ever increasing costs of basic utilities and food have no effect? As I've said to you before you arn't paying for them to have any sort of life you are paying so as they can hand their money over to utility companies in order to survive and that money goes into the pockets of shareholders. I won't waste any further time responding to you Andy as your blinkers are on way too tight and it's restricting the blood flow to your brain. There is one word to describe the mindset of yourself and others on here, evil, and I'm not going to remain silent while people like yourself call for children to be made to suffer for the failure of government and the safety net to be pulled out from beneath those increasing numbers of people who are falling, again due to a sick ideology that see people as nothing more than a commodity to be traded as cheaply as possible. You might be an "I'm all right Jack" but your not right in the head.[/p][/quote]I would agree food banks are on the increase but look closer at their "customers". 90% of food handed out at food banks goes to families where 1 or more have substance abuse problems so the money they receive from the state is being used not as intended. I fail to see your arguement about benefit money being spent on Utilities...so what ? Are you suggesting that all benefits claimants shoudl now get free gas, electric and water ? I think the amount you smoke has clearly effected your judgement when it comes to day to day life. I would try going sober for a bit and clear your head. It might give you the enthusiasm to make something something of your life[/p][/quote]Ok one last reply. Back up your slanderous claim that 90% of food bank clients have substance abuse problem as I think you've pulled the figure from the same orifice that you talk out of. You fail to see anyones point but I think that reflects more on you than it does the posters making the points. Your assumptions about me are way off the mark but who can begrude you your prejudices? These low blows are merely a sign that, on a subconscious level at least, you realise your loosing the argument. RollandSmoke
  • Score: 0

1:21pm Tue 4 Dec 12

Andy2010 says...

RollandSmoke wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote: The solutions offered by the rabid cap doffers would create work. More work for the NHS as they deal with the problems caused by malnutrition and bad diet. More work for the police when some refuse to starve and turn to crime. More work for the funeral directors and grave diggers when people either starve or freeze to death. It wouldn't get many unemployed into work however although more would end up on the sick and the jobseekers that remain would not have the fitness levels to take on much work. All the services that would see an upturn in their workload are taxpayer funded so the policies they advocate would actually see them paying more tax. Their total inability to see this bigger picture just goes to show that the rabid right are thick as.... although some are perfectly aware that all that would happen is that some would suffer extreme hardship and it amuses them because they are sick in the head.
You like really pushing the boundaries of reality dont ya You make it sound like with these cut backs and future ones people are going to be starving and everyone out of work is going to be sleeping rough..grow up Top and bottom of it even on the basic £70 a week handout thats plenty to feed yourself and pay for utilities. If its not please show me how not Im sure the real starving people in parts of the world would be insulted at your suggestion that those in the UK who get a house, taxes paid and money every week for doing nothing are suffering
Do the regular stories about the food banks seeing more and more people being refered to them pass you by? Do the ever increasing costs of basic utilities and food have no effect? As I've said to you before you arn't paying for them to have any sort of life you are paying so as they can hand their money over to utility companies in order to survive and that money goes into the pockets of shareholders. I won't waste any further time responding to you Andy as your blinkers are on way too tight and it's restricting the blood flow to your brain. There is one word to describe the mindset of yourself and others on here, evil, and I'm not going to remain silent while people like yourself call for children to be made to suffer for the failure of government and the safety net to be pulled out from beneath those increasing numbers of people who are falling, again due to a sick ideology that see people as nothing more than a commodity to be traded as cheaply as possible. You might be an "I'm all right Jack" but your not right in the head.
I would agree food banks are on the increase but look closer at their "customers". 90% of food handed out at food banks goes to families where 1 or more have substance abuse problems so the money they receive from the state is being used not as intended. I fail to see your arguement about benefit money being spent on Utilities...so what ? Are you suggesting that all benefits claimants shoudl now get free gas, electric and water ? I think the amount you smoke has clearly effected your judgement when it comes to day to day life. I would try going sober for a bit and clear your head. It might give you the enthusiasm to make something something of your life
Ok one last reply. Back up your slanderous claim that 90% of food bank clients have substance abuse problem as I think you've pulled the figure from the same orifice that you talk out of. You fail to see anyones point but I think that reflects more on you than it does the posters making the points. Your assumptions about me are way off the mark but who can begrude you your prejudices? These low blows are merely a sign that, on a subconscious level at least, you realise your loosing the argument.
I didnt realise we were having an arguement but clearly that is your understanding

My point is and will remain the same is that and as you will see from other posters that the majority of hard working people not just in Bradford but in the UK are sick the back teeth of people taking quite frankly the p1ss with the benefits system. Im sure Im not alone in thinking that some (yes some not all) benefit claimants think it is their right to live off the state with zero input into the system. For the rest of us that work extremely hard to provide the basics for our families Im sure even you can understand our grievance here. No-one will dispute that the benefit system is needed for short term help only but some who have lived this way for many years are the element of society we are sick of.

On the original story though do you honestly expect sympathy on the basis that benefits may be cut? You sweeping statements about people dying of starvation of becoming homeless are quite frankly ridiculous in this country as simply does not happen.

I like many others think benefits should not only be cut but also should be given in form of food vouchers to make sure are spent for what they are intended. Maybe then and only then will these claimants realise that they will be better off working and pull their weight

Of course feel free to disagree that is your right but dont knock myself and others down for simply having a different view of the benefit system
[quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: The solutions offered by the rabid cap doffers would create work. More work for the NHS as they deal with the problems caused by malnutrition and bad diet. More work for the police when some refuse to starve and turn to crime. More work for the funeral directors and grave diggers when people either starve or freeze to death. It wouldn't get many unemployed into work however although more would end up on the sick and the jobseekers that remain would not have the fitness levels to take on much work. All the services that would see an upturn in their workload are taxpayer funded so the policies they advocate would actually see them paying more tax. Their total inability to see this bigger picture just goes to show that the rabid right are thick as.... although some are perfectly aware that all that would happen is that some would suffer extreme hardship and it amuses them because they are sick in the head.[/p][/quote]You like really pushing the boundaries of reality dont ya You make it sound like with these cut backs and future ones people are going to be starving and everyone out of work is going to be sleeping rough..grow up Top and bottom of it even on the basic £70 a week handout thats plenty to feed yourself and pay for utilities. If its not please show me how not Im sure the real starving people in parts of the world would be insulted at your suggestion that those in the UK who get a house, taxes paid and money every week for doing nothing are suffering[/p][/quote]Do the regular stories about the food banks seeing more and more people being refered to them pass you by? Do the ever increasing costs of basic utilities and food have no effect? As I've said to you before you arn't paying for them to have any sort of life you are paying so as they can hand their money over to utility companies in order to survive and that money goes into the pockets of shareholders. I won't waste any further time responding to you Andy as your blinkers are on way too tight and it's restricting the blood flow to your brain. There is one word to describe the mindset of yourself and others on here, evil, and I'm not going to remain silent while people like yourself call for children to be made to suffer for the failure of government and the safety net to be pulled out from beneath those increasing numbers of people who are falling, again due to a sick ideology that see people as nothing more than a commodity to be traded as cheaply as possible. You might be an "I'm all right Jack" but your not right in the head.[/p][/quote]I would agree food banks are on the increase but look closer at their "customers". 90% of food handed out at food banks goes to families where 1 or more have substance abuse problems so the money they receive from the state is being used not as intended. I fail to see your arguement about benefit money being spent on Utilities...so what ? Are you suggesting that all benefits claimants shoudl now get free gas, electric and water ? I think the amount you smoke has clearly effected your judgement when it comes to day to day life. I would try going sober for a bit and clear your head. It might give you the enthusiasm to make something something of your life[/p][/quote]Ok one last reply. Back up your slanderous claim that 90% of food bank clients have substance abuse problem as I think you've pulled the figure from the same orifice that you talk out of. You fail to see anyones point but I think that reflects more on you than it does the posters making the points. Your assumptions about me are way off the mark but who can begrude you your prejudices? These low blows are merely a sign that, on a subconscious level at least, you realise your loosing the argument.[/p][/quote]I didnt realise we were having an arguement but clearly that is your understanding My point is and will remain the same is that and as you will see from other posters that the majority of hard working people not just in Bradford but in the UK are sick the back teeth of people taking quite frankly the p1ss with the benefits system. Im sure Im not alone in thinking that some (yes some not all) benefit claimants think it is their right to live off the state with zero input into the system. For the rest of us that work extremely hard to provide the basics for our families Im sure even you can understand our grievance here. No-one will dispute that the benefit system is needed for short term help only but some who have lived this way for many years are the element of society we are sick of. On the original story though do you honestly expect sympathy on the basis that benefits may be cut? You sweeping statements about people dying of starvation of becoming homeless are quite frankly ridiculous in this country as simply does not happen. I like many others think benefits should not only be cut but also should be given in form of food vouchers to make sure are spent for what they are intended. Maybe then and only then will these claimants realise that they will be better off working and pull their weight Of course feel free to disagree that is your right but dont knock myself and others down for simply having a different view of the benefit system Andy2010
  • Score: 0

1:33pm Tue 4 Dec 12

Shelfrhino says...

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
WHERE IS YOUR COMPASSION? WHERE IS YOUR EMPATHY FOR YOUR FELLOW MAN? ALL YOU RIGHT-WING NUTTERS SHOULD HANG YOUR HEADS IN SHAME, YOU ARE A DISGRACE TO MANKIND. GOD BLESS THE BISHOP FOR SPEAKING OUT AGAINST THIS WICKED GOVERNMENT.
The only benefit claimant I have sympathy for is the guy who has worked hard all his life, lived a decent crime free existence and brought his kids up properly. Then the poor tw** goes and loses his job because some eastern European migrant living 10 to a house comes in and undercuts him or worse still the factory closes and moves to eastern Europe, all done under the auspices of EU socialist clap-trap.

You lefty losers have ruined the UK, it's time for the right to put it right again.

PS, the only connection you have with a bishop is the one you bash on a regular basis.
[quote][p][bold]Another Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: WHERE IS YOUR COMPASSION? WHERE IS YOUR EMPATHY FOR YOUR FELLOW MAN? ALL YOU RIGHT-WING NUTTERS SHOULD HANG YOUR HEADS IN SHAME, YOU ARE A DISGRACE TO MANKIND. GOD BLESS THE BISHOP FOR SPEAKING OUT AGAINST THIS WICKED GOVERNMENT.[/p][/quote]The only benefit claimant I have sympathy for is the guy who has worked hard all his life, lived a decent crime free existence and brought his kids up properly. Then the poor tw** goes and loses his job because some eastern European migrant living 10 to a house comes in and undercuts him or worse still the factory closes and moves to eastern Europe, all done under the auspices of EU socialist clap-trap. You lefty losers have ruined the UK, it's time for the right to put it right again. PS, the only connection you have with a bishop is the one you bash on a regular basis. Shelfrhino
  • Score: 0

1:36pm Tue 4 Dec 12

Another Landless Peasant says...

BOYCOTT WORKFARE:

http://www.boycottwo
rkfare.org
BOYCOTT WORKFARE: http://www.boycottwo rkfare.org Another Landless Peasant
  • Score: 0

1:39pm Tue 4 Dec 12

Andy2010 says...

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
BOYCOTT WORKFARE: http://www.boycottwo rkfare.org
Yes boycott work

Lets all just sit on our 4rses watching tv all day

Thats how to sort out the economy

Idiot
[quote][p][bold]Another Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: BOYCOTT WORKFARE: http://www.boycottwo rkfare.org[/p][/quote]Yes boycott work Lets all just sit on our 4rses watching tv all day Thats how to sort out the economy Idiot Andy2010
  • Score: 0

1:41pm Tue 4 Dec 12

RollandSmoke says...

Andy2010 wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote: The solutions offered by the rabid cap doffers would create work. More work for the NHS as they deal with the problems caused by malnutrition and bad diet. More work for the police when some refuse to starve and turn to crime. More work for the funeral directors and grave diggers when people either starve or freeze to death. It wouldn't get many unemployed into work however although more would end up on the sick and the jobseekers that remain would not have the fitness levels to take on much work. All the services that would see an upturn in their workload are taxpayer funded so the policies they advocate would actually see them paying more tax. Their total inability to see this bigger picture just goes to show that the rabid right are thick as.... although some are perfectly aware that all that would happen is that some would suffer extreme hardship and it amuses them because they are sick in the head.
You like really pushing the boundaries of reality dont ya You make it sound like with these cut backs and future ones people are going to be starving and everyone out of work is going to be sleeping rough..grow up Top and bottom of it even on the basic £70 a week handout thats plenty to feed yourself and pay for utilities. If its not please show me how not Im sure the real starving people in parts of the world would be insulted at your suggestion that those in the UK who get a house, taxes paid and money every week for doing nothing are suffering
Do the regular stories about the food banks seeing more and more people being refered to them pass you by? Do the ever increasing costs of basic utilities and food have no effect? As I've said to you before you arn't paying for them to have any sort of life you are paying so as they can hand their money over to utility companies in order to survive and that money goes into the pockets of shareholders. I won't waste any further time responding to you Andy as your blinkers are on way too tight and it's restricting the blood flow to your brain. There is one word to describe the mindset of yourself and others on here, evil, and I'm not going to remain silent while people like yourself call for children to be made to suffer for the failure of government and the safety net to be pulled out from beneath those increasing numbers of people who are falling, again due to a sick ideology that see people as nothing more than a commodity to be traded as cheaply as possible. You might be an "I'm all right Jack" but your not right in the head.
I would agree food banks are on the increase but look closer at their "customers". 90% of food handed out at food banks goes to families where 1 or more have substance abuse problems so the money they receive from the state is being used not as intended. I fail to see your arguement about benefit money being spent on Utilities...so what ? Are you suggesting that all benefits claimants shoudl now get free gas, electric and water ? I think the amount you smoke has clearly effected your judgement when it comes to day to day life. I would try going sober for a bit and clear your head. It might give you the enthusiasm to make something something of your life
Ok one last reply. Back up your slanderous claim that 90% of food bank clients have substance abuse problem as I think you've pulled the figure from the same orifice that you talk out of. You fail to see anyones point but I think that reflects more on you than it does the posters making the points. Your assumptions about me are way off the mark but who can begrude you your prejudices? These low blows are merely a sign that, on a subconscious level at least, you realise your loosing the argument.
I didnt realise we were having an arguement but clearly that is your understanding

My point is and will remain the same is that and as you will see from other posters that the majority of hard working people not just in Bradford but in the UK are sick the back teeth of people taking quite frankly the p1ss with the benefits system. Im sure Im not alone in thinking that some (yes some not all) benefit claimants think it is their right to live off the state with zero input into the system. For the rest of us that work extremely hard to provide the basics for our families Im sure even you can understand our grievance here. No-one will dispute that the benefit system is needed for short term help only but some who have lived this way for many years are the element of society we are sick of.

On the original story though do you honestly expect sympathy on the basis that benefits may be cut? You sweeping statements about people dying of starvation of becoming homeless are quite frankly ridiculous in this country as simply does not happen.

I like many others think benefits should not only be cut but also should be given in form of food vouchers to make sure are spent for what they are intended. Maybe then and only then will these claimants realise that they will be better off working and pull their weight

Of course feel free to disagree that is your right but dont knock myself and others down for simply having a different view of the benefit system
Yes at the moment it doesn't happen often but when you cut away at the small amount that people do get to survive it will. Now if the news was full of stories of vast numbers of jobs being created as apposed to vast numbers being lost then yes I could understand your constant attacks on benefit claimants. I'm sure there are a few examples where there are people who take the P but the generalisations thrown at ALL benefit claimants are akin to the other lie that we hear on here regularly that ALL Muslims are extreamist terrorists that mean us harm.
[quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: The solutions offered by the rabid cap doffers would create work. More work for the NHS as they deal with the problems caused by malnutrition and bad diet. More work for the police when some refuse to starve and turn to crime. More work for the funeral directors and grave diggers when people either starve or freeze to death. It wouldn't get many unemployed into work however although more would end up on the sick and the jobseekers that remain would not have the fitness levels to take on much work. All the services that would see an upturn in their workload are taxpayer funded so the policies they advocate would actually see them paying more tax. Their total inability to see this bigger picture just goes to show that the rabid right are thick as.... although some are perfectly aware that all that would happen is that some would suffer extreme hardship and it amuses them because they are sick in the head.[/p][/quote]You like really pushing the boundaries of reality dont ya You make it sound like with these cut backs and future ones people are going to be starving and everyone out of work is going to be sleeping rough..grow up Top and bottom of it even on the basic £70 a week handout thats plenty to feed yourself and pay for utilities. If its not please show me how not Im sure the real starving people in parts of the world would be insulted at your suggestion that those in the UK who get a house, taxes paid and money every week for doing nothing are suffering[/p][/quote]Do the regular stories about the food banks seeing more and more people being refered to them pass you by? Do the ever increasing costs of basic utilities and food have no effect? As I've said to you before you arn't paying for them to have any sort of life you are paying so as they can hand their money over to utility companies in order to survive and that money goes into the pockets of shareholders. I won't waste any further time responding to you Andy as your blinkers are on way too tight and it's restricting the blood flow to your brain. There is one word to describe the mindset of yourself and others on here, evil, and I'm not going to remain silent while people like yourself call for children to be made to suffer for the failure of government and the safety net to be pulled out from beneath those increasing numbers of people who are falling, again due to a sick ideology that see people as nothing more than a commodity to be traded as cheaply as possible. You might be an "I'm all right Jack" but your not right in the head.[/p][/quote]I would agree food banks are on the increase but look closer at their "customers". 90% of food handed out at food banks goes to families where 1 or more have substance abuse problems so the money they receive from the state is being used not as intended. I fail to see your arguement about benefit money being spent on Utilities...so what ? Are you suggesting that all benefits claimants shoudl now get free gas, electric and water ? I think the amount you smoke has clearly effected your judgement when it comes to day to day life. I would try going sober for a bit and clear your head. It might give you the enthusiasm to make something something of your life[/p][/quote]Ok one last reply. Back up your slanderous claim that 90% of food bank clients have substance abuse problem as I think you've pulled the figure from the same orifice that you talk out of. You fail to see anyones point but I think that reflects more on you than it does the posters making the points. Your assumptions about me are way off the mark but who can begrude you your prejudices? These low blows are merely a sign that, on a subconscious level at least, you realise your loosing the argument.[/p][/quote]I didnt realise we were having an arguement but clearly that is your understanding My point is and will remain the same is that and as you will see from other posters that the majority of hard working people not just in Bradford but in the UK are sick the back teeth of people taking quite frankly the p1ss with the benefits system. Im sure Im not alone in thinking that some (yes some not all) benefit claimants think it is their right to live off the state with zero input into the system. For the rest of us that work extremely hard to provide the basics for our families Im sure even you can understand our grievance here. No-one will dispute that the benefit system is needed for short term help only but some who have lived this way for many years are the element of society we are sick of. On the original story though do you honestly expect sympathy on the basis that benefits may be cut? You sweeping statements about people dying of starvation of becoming homeless are quite frankly ridiculous in this country as simply does not happen. I like many others think benefits should not only be cut but also should be given in form of food vouchers to make sure are spent for what they are intended. Maybe then and only then will these claimants realise that they will be better off working and pull their weight Of course feel free to disagree that is your right but dont knock myself and others down for simply having a different view of the benefit system[/p][/quote]Yes at the moment it doesn't happen often but when you cut away at the small amount that people do get to survive it will. Now if the news was full of stories of vast numbers of jobs being created as apposed to vast numbers being lost then yes I could understand your constant attacks on benefit claimants. I'm sure there are a few examples where there are people who take the P but the generalisations thrown at ALL benefit claimants are akin to the other lie that we hear on here regularly that ALL Muslims are extreamist terrorists that mean us harm. RollandSmoke
  • Score: 0

2:02pm Tue 4 Dec 12

Andy2010 says...

RollandSmoke wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote: The solutions offered by the rabid cap doffers would create work. More work for the NHS as they deal with the problems caused by malnutrition and bad diet. More work for the police when some refuse to starve and turn to crime. More work for the funeral directors and grave diggers when people either starve or freeze to death. It wouldn't get many unemployed into work however although more would end up on the sick and the jobseekers that remain would not have the fitness levels to take on much work. All the services that would see an upturn in their workload are taxpayer funded so the policies they advocate would actually see them paying more tax. Their total inability to see this bigger picture just goes to show that the rabid right are thick as.... although some are perfectly aware that all that would happen is that some would suffer extreme hardship and it amuses them because they are sick in the head.
You like really pushing the boundaries of reality dont ya You make it sound like with these cut backs and future ones people are going to be starving and everyone out of work is going to be sleeping rough..grow up Top and bottom of it even on the basic £70 a week handout thats plenty to feed yourself and pay for utilities. If its not please show me how not Im sure the real starving people in parts of the world would be insulted at your suggestion that those in the UK who get a house, taxes paid and money every week for doing nothing are suffering
Do the regular stories about the food banks seeing more and more people being refered to them pass you by? Do the ever increasing costs of basic utilities and food have no effect? As I've said to you before you arn't paying for them to have any sort of life you are paying so as they can hand their money over to utility companies in order to survive and that money goes into the pockets of shareholders. I won't waste any further time responding to you Andy as your blinkers are on way too tight and it's restricting the blood flow to your brain. There is one word to describe the mindset of yourself and others on here, evil, and I'm not going to remain silent while people like yourself call for children to be made to suffer for the failure of government and the safety net to be pulled out from beneath those increasing numbers of people who are falling, again due to a sick ideology that see people as nothing more than a commodity to be traded as cheaply as possible. You might be an "I'm all right Jack" but your not right in the head.
I would agree food banks are on the increase but look closer at their "customers". 90% of food handed out at food banks goes to families where 1 or more have substance abuse problems so the money they receive from the state is being used not as intended. I fail to see your arguement about benefit money being spent on Utilities...so what ? Are you suggesting that all benefits claimants shoudl now get free gas, electric and water ? I think the amount you smoke has clearly effected your judgement when it comes to day to day life. I would try going sober for a bit and clear your head. It might give you the enthusiasm to make something something of your life
Ok one last reply. Back up your slanderous claim that 90% of food bank clients have substance abuse problem as I think you've pulled the figure from the same orifice that you talk out of. You fail to see anyones point but I think that reflects more on you than it does the posters making the points. Your assumptions about me are way off the mark but who can begrude you your prejudices? These low blows are merely a sign that, on a subconscious level at least, you realise your loosing the argument.
I didnt realise we were having an arguement but clearly that is your understanding My point is and will remain the same is that and as you will see from other posters that the majority of hard working people not just in Bradford but in the UK are sick the back teeth of people taking quite frankly the p1ss with the benefits system. Im sure Im not alone in thinking that some (yes some not all) benefit claimants think it is their right to live off the state with zero input into the system. For the rest of us that work extremely hard to provide the basics for our families Im sure even you can understand our grievance here. No-one will dispute that the benefit system is needed for short term help only but some who have lived this way for many years are the element of society we are sick of. On the original story though do you honestly expect sympathy on the basis that benefits may be cut? You sweeping statements about people dying of starvation of becoming homeless are quite frankly ridiculous in this country as simply does not happen. I like many others think benefits should not only be cut but also should be given in form of food vouchers to make sure are spent for what they are intended. Maybe then and only then will these claimants realise that they will be better off working and pull their weight Of course feel free to disagree that is your right but dont knock myself and others down for simply having a different view of the benefit system
Yes at the moment it doesn't happen often but when you cut away at the small amount that people do get to survive it will. Now if the news was full of stories of vast numbers of jobs being created as apposed to vast numbers being lost then yes I could understand your constant attacks on benefit claimants. I'm sure there are a few examples where there are people who take the P but the generalisations thrown at ALL benefit claimants are akin to the other lie that we hear on here regularly that ALL Muslims are extreamist terrorists that mean us harm.
You read too much news. Take for example the company that I work at...we have increased the headcount in the past year here by 20%....there are jobs out there but SOME people just cant be bothered.

I stated in another thread a friend of mine recently took 4 people on through the JCP on one of these free back to work placement things (I know you probably dont agree with this scheme but hear me out). Of the 4 who all turned up on the first day in the space of one week only one was left. 2 said the journey was too far for them (Bradford City centre and the furthest one away lived in Shipley). The other one said "it wasnt worth it". The one that remained stuck it out and was offered a full time role after 3 weeks.

There are jobs out there and even if it only means you are £10 a week better off I would argue you should work that job but alas SOME claimants will not work for this increase as to them it isnt worth it.

Now I know you will come back with the claim that min wage shoudl be increased but thats a totally separate issue,
[quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: The solutions offered by the rabid cap doffers would create work. More work for the NHS as they deal with the problems caused by malnutrition and bad diet. More work for the police when some refuse to starve and turn to crime. More work for the funeral directors and grave diggers when people either starve or freeze to death. It wouldn't get many unemployed into work however although more would end up on the sick and the jobseekers that remain would not have the fitness levels to take on much work. All the services that would see an upturn in their workload are taxpayer funded so the policies they advocate would actually see them paying more tax. Their total inability to see this bigger picture just goes to show that the rabid right are thick as.... although some are perfectly aware that all that would happen is that some would suffer extreme hardship and it amuses them because they are sick in the head.[/p][/quote]You like really pushing the boundaries of reality dont ya You make it sound like with these cut backs and future ones people are going to be starving and everyone out of work is going to be sleeping rough..grow up Top and bottom of it even on the basic £70 a week handout thats plenty to feed yourself and pay for utilities. If its not please show me how not Im sure the real starving people in parts of the world would be insulted at your suggestion that those in the UK who get a house, taxes paid and money every week for doing nothing are suffering[/p][/quote]Do the regular stories about the food banks seeing more and more people being refered to them pass you by? Do the ever increasing costs of basic utilities and food have no effect? As I've said to you before you arn't paying for them to have any sort of life you are paying so as they can hand their money over to utility companies in order to survive and that money goes into the pockets of shareholders. I won't waste any further time responding to you Andy as your blinkers are on way too tight and it's restricting the blood flow to your brain. There is one word to describe the mindset of yourself and others on here, evil, and I'm not going to remain silent while people like yourself call for children to be made to suffer for the failure of government and the safety net to be pulled out from beneath those increasing numbers of people who are falling, again due to a sick ideology that see people as nothing more than a commodity to be traded as cheaply as possible. You might be an "I'm all right Jack" but your not right in the head.[/p][/quote]I would agree food banks are on the increase but look closer at their "customers". 90% of food handed out at food banks goes to families where 1 or more have substance abuse problems so the money they receive from the state is being used not as intended. I fail to see your arguement about benefit money being spent on Utilities...so what ? Are you suggesting that all benefits claimants shoudl now get free gas, electric and water ? I think the amount you smoke has clearly effected your judgement when it comes to day to day life. I would try going sober for a bit and clear your head. It might give you the enthusiasm to make something something of your life[/p][/quote]Ok one last reply. Back up your slanderous claim that 90% of food bank clients have substance abuse problem as I think you've pulled the figure from the same orifice that you talk out of. You fail to see anyones point but I think that reflects more on you than it does the posters making the points. Your assumptions about me are way off the mark but who can begrude you your prejudices? These low blows are merely a sign that, on a subconscious level at least, you realise your loosing the argument.[/p][/quote]I didnt realise we were having an arguement but clearly that is your understanding My point is and will remain the same is that and as you will see from other posters that the majority of hard working people not just in Bradford but in the UK are sick the back teeth of people taking quite frankly the p1ss with the benefits system. Im sure Im not alone in thinking that some (yes some not all) benefit claimants think it is their right to live off the state with zero input into the system. For the rest of us that work extremely hard to provide the basics for our families Im sure even you can understand our grievance here. No-one will dispute that the benefit system is needed for short term help only but some who have lived this way for many years are the element of society we are sick of. On the original story though do you honestly expect sympathy on the basis that benefits may be cut? You sweeping statements about people dying of starvation of becoming homeless are quite frankly ridiculous in this country as simply does not happen. I like many others think benefits should not only be cut but also should be given in form of food vouchers to make sure are spent for what they are intended. Maybe then and only then will these claimants realise that they will be better off working and pull their weight Of course feel free to disagree that is your right but dont knock myself and others down for simply having a different view of the benefit system[/p][/quote]Yes at the moment it doesn't happen often but when you cut away at the small amount that people do get to survive it will. Now if the news was full of stories of vast numbers of jobs being created as apposed to vast numbers being lost then yes I could understand your constant attacks on benefit claimants. I'm sure there are a few examples where there are people who take the P but the generalisations thrown at ALL benefit claimants are akin to the other lie that we hear on here regularly that ALL Muslims are extreamist terrorists that mean us harm.[/p][/quote]You read too much news. Take for example the company that I work at...we have increased the headcount in the past year here by 20%....there are jobs out there but SOME people just cant be bothered. I stated in another thread a friend of mine recently took 4 people on through the JCP on one of these free back to work placement things (I know you probably dont agree with this scheme but hear me out). Of the 4 who all turned up on the first day in the space of one week only one was left. 2 said the journey was too far for them (Bradford City centre and the furthest one away lived in Shipley). The other one said "it wasnt worth it". The one that remained stuck it out and was offered a full time role after 3 weeks. There are jobs out there and even if it only means you are £10 a week better off I would argue you should work that job but alas SOME claimants will not work for this increase as to them it isnt worth it. Now I know you will come back with the claim that min wage shoudl be increased but thats a totally separate issue, Andy2010
  • Score: 0

2:10pm Tue 4 Dec 12

Shelfrhino says...

A severe cold snap on the way so that should get the benefit bill down a bit hopefully.
A severe cold snap on the way so that should get the benefit bill down a bit hopefully. Shelfrhino
  • Score: 0

2:36pm Tue 4 Dec 12

The Hump says...

A family friend we have known for years was claiming incapacity benefit, he suffered abuse as a child and he was left very traumatized and had some severe mental health problems, we looked after him visiting him and taking him on shopping trips and doing what we could to help,if we didnt he would literally never have any human contact with any one, he was a nervous wreck, he got called to the medical and failed because the questions dont cover mental health, he was found hanging last week.
A family friend we have known for years was claiming incapacity benefit, he suffered abuse as a child and he was left very traumatized and had some severe mental health problems, we looked after him visiting him and taking him on shopping trips and doing what we could to help,if we didnt he would literally never have any human contact with any one, he was a nervous wreck, he got called to the medical and failed because the questions dont cover mental health, he was found hanging last week. The Hump
  • Score: 0

2:56pm Tue 4 Dec 12

GlobalSingh says...

There needs to be balance here...to tackle Benefit abuses and keep the Country's deficit healthy...Government
s are primarily there to serve the Interests of the 'Rich' and for cushy jobs, so any type of 'hardship' or suffering of the masses isn't going to cause the Politicians any sleep problems!
There needs to be balance here...to tackle Benefit abuses and keep the Country's deficit healthy...Government s are primarily there to serve the Interests of the 'Rich' and for cushy jobs, so any type of 'hardship' or suffering of the masses isn't going to cause the Politicians any sleep problems! GlobalSingh
  • Score: 0

2:58pm Tue 4 Dec 12

RollandSmoke says...

The Hump wrote:
A family friend we have known for years was claiming incapacity benefit, he suffered abuse as a child and he was left very traumatized and had some severe mental health problems, we looked after him visiting him and taking him on shopping trips and doing what we could to help,if we didnt he would literally never have any human contact with any one, he was a nervous wreck, he got called to the medical and failed because the questions dont cover mental health, he was found hanging last week.
I wish this was an isolated incident but it's not. Here are the governments own figures. This is what ATOS is getting paid £100m a year for.
"In total, between January 2011 and November 2011, some 10,600 claims ended and a date of death was recorded within six weeks of the claim end".

http://statistics.dw
p.gov.uk/asd/asd1/ad
hoc_analysis/2012/in
cap_decd_recips_0712
.pdf
[quote][p][bold]The Hump[/bold] wrote: A family friend we have known for years was claiming incapacity benefit, he suffered abuse as a child and he was left very traumatized and had some severe mental health problems, we looked after him visiting him and taking him on shopping trips and doing what we could to help,if we didnt he would literally never have any human contact with any one, he was a nervous wreck, he got called to the medical and failed because the questions dont cover mental health, he was found hanging last week.[/p][/quote]I wish this was an isolated incident but it's not. Here are the governments own figures. This is what ATOS is getting paid £100m a year for. "In total, between January 2011 and November 2011, some 10,600 claims ended and a date of death was recorded within six weeks of the claim end". http://statistics.dw p.gov.uk/asd/asd1/ad hoc_analysis/2012/in cap_decd_recips_0712 .pdf RollandSmoke
  • Score: 0

3:37pm Tue 4 Dec 12

Andy2010 says...

RollandSmoke wrote:
The Hump wrote: A family friend we have known for years was claiming incapacity benefit, he suffered abuse as a child and he was left very traumatized and had some severe mental health problems, we looked after him visiting him and taking him on shopping trips and doing what we could to help,if we didnt he would literally never have any human contact with any one, he was a nervous wreck, he got called to the medical and failed because the questions dont cover mental health, he was found hanging last week.
I wish this was an isolated incident but it's not. Here are the governments own figures. This is what ATOS is getting paid £100m a year for. "In total, between January 2011 and November 2011, some 10,600 claims ended and a date of death was recorded within six weeks of the claim end". http://statistics.dw p.gov.uk/asd/asd1/ad hoc_analysis/2012/in cap_decd_recips_0712 .pdf
Numbers and stats can mean anything..note the below from the report

"The analysis below covers all cases where a date of death is given, whether or not the cause of death is related to the health issues leading to the incapacity benefit award. It would be expected that the mortality rate amongst those on incapacity benefits recipients would be higher than that in the general population as some people receive incapacity benefits due to life-threatening conditions or terminal illness."

Those statistics are actually in line with the norm and nothing to do with withdrawal of benefits if you look into it closer

I wonder how many people also died whilst were employed?

Bet it was a hell of a lot more therefore this actually means nothing
[quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Hump[/bold] wrote: A family friend we have known for years was claiming incapacity benefit, he suffered abuse as a child and he was left very traumatized and had some severe mental health problems, we looked after him visiting him and taking him on shopping trips and doing what we could to help,if we didnt he would literally never have any human contact with any one, he was a nervous wreck, he got called to the medical and failed because the questions dont cover mental health, he was found hanging last week.[/p][/quote]I wish this was an isolated incident but it's not. Here are the governments own figures. This is what ATOS is getting paid £100m a year for. "In total, between January 2011 and November 2011, some 10,600 claims ended and a date of death was recorded within six weeks of the claim end". http://statistics.dw p.gov.uk/asd/asd1/ad hoc_analysis/2012/in cap_decd_recips_0712 .pdf[/p][/quote]Numbers and stats can mean anything..note the below from the report "The analysis below covers all cases where a date of death is given, whether or not the cause of death is related to the health issues leading to the incapacity benefit award. It would be expected that the mortality rate amongst those on incapacity benefits recipients would be higher than that in the general population as some people receive incapacity benefits due to life-threatening conditions or terminal illness." Those statistics are actually in line with the norm and nothing to do with withdrawal of benefits if you look into it closer I wonder how many people also died whilst were employed? Bet it was a hell of a lot more therefore this actually means nothing Andy2010
  • Score: 0

3:48pm Tue 4 Dec 12

Andy2010 says...

On a side note just seen below noted about above after someone did some proper analysis

"The 21% who are relatively fit to work, 1,100 passed away.
A group that got given full care, representing 22%, 5,300 passed away.

If we base mortality rates on just the 300,000 who appealed (but far more are in the working group), the mortality rates based on the 34 weeks works out at 560 per 100,000.
The average mortality rate for the whole UK is 655 per 100,000.
Bearing in mind there are far more than the 300,000 people, the mortality rate in that group is much lower than the 'healthy populace "
On a side note just seen below noted about above after someone did some proper analysis "The 21% who are relatively fit to work, 1,100 passed away. A group that got given full care, representing 22%, 5,300 passed away. If we base mortality rates on just the 300,000 who appealed (but far more are in the working group), the mortality rates based on the 34 weeks works out at 560 per 100,000. The average mortality rate for the whole UK is 655 per 100,000. Bearing in mind there are far more than the 300,000 people, the mortality rate in that group is much lower than the 'healthy populace " Andy2010
  • Score: 0

4:03pm Tue 4 Dec 12

RollandSmoke says...

Andy2010 wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote:
The Hump wrote: A family friend we have known for years was claiming incapacity benefit, he suffered abuse as a child and he was left very traumatized and had some severe mental health problems, we looked after him visiting him and taking him on shopping trips and doing what we could to help,if we didnt he would literally never have any human contact with any one, he was a nervous wreck, he got called to the medical and failed because the questions dont cover mental health, he was found hanging last week.
I wish this was an isolated incident but it's not. Here are the governments own figures. This is what ATOS is getting paid £100m a year for. "In total, between January 2011 and November 2011, some 10,600 claims ended and a date of death was recorded within six weeks of the claim end". http://statistics.dw p.gov.uk/asd/asd1/ad hoc_analysis/2012/in cap_decd_recips_0712 .pdf
Numbers and stats can mean anything..note the below from the report

"The analysis below covers all cases where a date of death is given, whether or not the cause of death is related to the health issues leading to the incapacity benefit award. It would be expected that the mortality rate amongst those on incapacity benefits recipients would be higher than that in the general population as some people receive incapacity benefits due to life-threatening conditions or terminal illness."

Those statistics are actually in line with the norm and nothing to do with withdrawal of benefits if you look into it closer

I wonder how many people also died whilst were employed?

Bet it was a hell of a lot more therefore this actually means nothing
"It would be expected that the mortality rate amongst those on incapacity benefits recipients would be higher than that in the general population as some people receive incapacity benefits due to life-threatening conditions or terminal illness."
So what the hell is ATOS doing finding these people "fit for work"?
If your going to throw figures about please quote your sorces preferably with a link as it stops you getting the repeated accusation of making it up as you go along as in the case of the 90% of food bank clients that you claim have substance abuse problems.
How many deaths do you see as acceptable?
[quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Hump[/bold] wrote: A family friend we have known for years was claiming incapacity benefit, he suffered abuse as a child and he was left very traumatized and had some severe mental health problems, we looked after him visiting him and taking him on shopping trips and doing what we could to help,if we didnt he would literally never have any human contact with any one, he was a nervous wreck, he got called to the medical and failed because the questions dont cover mental health, he was found hanging last week.[/p][/quote]I wish this was an isolated incident but it's not. Here are the governments own figures. This is what ATOS is getting paid £100m a year for. "In total, between January 2011 and November 2011, some 10,600 claims ended and a date of death was recorded within six weeks of the claim end". http://statistics.dw p.gov.uk/asd/asd1/ad hoc_analysis/2012/in cap_decd_recips_0712 .pdf[/p][/quote]Numbers and stats can mean anything..note the below from the report "The analysis below covers all cases where a date of death is given, whether or not the cause of death is related to the health issues leading to the incapacity benefit award. It would be expected that the mortality rate amongst those on incapacity benefits recipients would be higher than that in the general population as some people receive incapacity benefits due to life-threatening conditions or terminal illness." Those statistics are actually in line with the norm and nothing to do with withdrawal of benefits if you look into it closer I wonder how many people also died whilst were employed? Bet it was a hell of a lot more therefore this actually means nothing[/p][/quote]"It would be expected that the mortality rate amongst those on incapacity benefits recipients would be higher than that in the general population as some people receive incapacity benefits due to life-threatening conditions or terminal illness." So what the hell is ATOS doing finding these people "fit for work"? If your going to throw figures about please quote your sorces preferably with a link as it stops you getting the repeated accusation of making it up as you go along as in the case of the 90% of food bank clients that you claim have substance abuse problems. How many deaths do you see as acceptable? RollandSmoke
  • Score: 0

4:46pm Tue 4 Dec 12

Andy2010 says...

RollandSmoke wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote:
The Hump wrote: A family friend we have known for years was claiming incapacity benefit, he suffered abuse as a child and he was left very traumatized and had some severe mental health problems, we looked after him visiting him and taking him on shopping trips and doing what we could to help,if we didnt he would literally never have any human contact with any one, he was a nervous wreck, he got called to the medical and failed because the questions dont cover mental health, he was found hanging last week.
I wish this was an isolated incident but it's not. Here are the governments own figures. This is what ATOS is getting paid £100m a year for. "In total, between January 2011 and November 2011, some 10,600 claims ended and a date of death was recorded within six weeks of the claim end". http://statistics.dw p.gov.uk/asd/asd1/ad hoc_analysis/2012/in cap_decd_recips_0712 .pdf
Numbers and stats can mean anything..note the below from the report "The analysis below covers all cases where a date of death is given, whether or not the cause of death is related to the health issues leading to the incapacity benefit award. It would be expected that the mortality rate amongst those on incapacity benefits recipients would be higher than that in the general population as some people receive incapacity benefits due to life-threatening conditions or terminal illness." Those statistics are actually in line with the norm and nothing to do with withdrawal of benefits if you look into it closer I wonder how many people also died whilst were employed? Bet it was a hell of a lot more therefore this actually means nothing
"It would be expected that the mortality rate amongst those on incapacity benefits recipients would be higher than that in the general population as some people receive incapacity benefits due to life-threatening conditions or terminal illness." So what the hell is ATOS doing finding these people "fit for work"? If your going to throw figures about please quote your sorces preferably with a link as it stops you getting the repeated accusation of making it up as you go along as in the case of the 90% of food bank clients that you claim have substance abuse problems. How many deaths do you see as acceptable?
Urm my quote came from the report you linked above so your source not mine

Or do you do what so many do and just cherry pick information without looking into it
[quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Hump[/bold] wrote: A family friend we have known for years was claiming incapacity benefit, he suffered abuse as a child and he was left very traumatized and had some severe mental health problems, we looked after him visiting him and taking him on shopping trips and doing what we could to help,if we didnt he would literally never have any human contact with any one, he was a nervous wreck, he got called to the medical and failed because the questions dont cover mental health, he was found hanging last week.[/p][/quote]I wish this was an isolated incident but it's not. Here are the governments own figures. This is what ATOS is getting paid £100m a year for. "In total, between January 2011 and November 2011, some 10,600 claims ended and a date of death was recorded within six weeks of the claim end". http://statistics.dw p.gov.uk/asd/asd1/ad hoc_analysis/2012/in cap_decd_recips_0712 .pdf[/p][/quote]Numbers and stats can mean anything..note the below from the report "The analysis below covers all cases where a date of death is given, whether or not the cause of death is related to the health issues leading to the incapacity benefit award. It would be expected that the mortality rate amongst those on incapacity benefits recipients would be higher than that in the general population as some people receive incapacity benefits due to life-threatening conditions or terminal illness." Those statistics are actually in line with the norm and nothing to do with withdrawal of benefits if you look into it closer I wonder how many people also died whilst were employed? Bet it was a hell of a lot more therefore this actually means nothing[/p][/quote]"It would be expected that the mortality rate amongst those on incapacity benefits recipients would be higher than that in the general population as some people receive incapacity benefits due to life-threatening conditions or terminal illness." So what the hell is ATOS doing finding these people "fit for work"? If your going to throw figures about please quote your sorces preferably with a link as it stops you getting the repeated accusation of making it up as you go along as in the case of the 90% of food bank clients that you claim have substance abuse problems. How many deaths do you see as acceptable?[/p][/quote]Urm my quote came from the report you linked above so your source not mine Or do you do what so many do and just cherry pick information without looking into it Andy2010
  • Score: 0

4:49pm Tue 4 Dec 12

Another Landless Peasant says...

@ GlobalSingh

The current level of unemployment has no bearing on the national deficit. JSA accounts for only a mere 2% of the welafre bill. The demonization of the unemployed by Government and media is entirely political and is all about keeping the workers in fear so that they are easier to control, whilst also providing a convenient scapegoat for failing policies in a failed system. Also the poor must suffer in order to protect the rich.
@ GlobalSingh The current level of unemployment has no bearing on the national deficit. JSA accounts for only a mere 2% of the welafre bill. The demonization of the unemployed by Government and media is entirely political and is all about keeping the workers in fear so that they are easier to control, whilst also providing a convenient scapegoat for failing policies in a failed system. Also the poor must suffer in order to protect the rich. Another Landless Peasant
  • Score: 0

5:04pm Tue 4 Dec 12

Another Landless Peasant says...

How to Destroy the Work Programme:

http://youtu.be/lODx
ZFWg-EU
How to Destroy the Work Programme: http://youtu.be/lODx ZFWg-EU Another Landless Peasant
  • Score: 0

5:23pm Tue 4 Dec 12

Another Landless Peasant says...

The so-called 'austerity measures' and Welafre reforms are all about population reduction. The Powers that Be want to kill off as many poor people as possible. The people in power serve the Anti-Christ.
The so-called 'austerity measures' and Welafre reforms are all about population reduction. The Powers that Be want to kill off as many poor people as possible. The people in power serve the Anti-Christ. Another Landless Peasant
  • Score: 0

5:31pm Tue 4 Dec 12

Albion. says...

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
The so-called 'austerity measures' and Welafre reforms are all about population reduction. The Powers that Be want to kill off as many poor people as possible. The people in power serve the Anti-Christ.
Do you mean the Pope?
[quote][p][bold]Another Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: The so-called 'austerity measures' and Welafre reforms are all about population reduction. The Powers that Be want to kill off as many poor people as possible. The people in power serve the Anti-Christ.[/p][/quote]Do you mean the Pope? Albion.
  • Score: 0

5:34pm Tue 4 Dec 12

Albion. says...

Albion. wrote:
Another Landless Peasant wrote:
The so-called 'austerity measures' and Welafre reforms are all about population reduction. The Powers that Be want to kill off as many poor people as possible. The people in power serve the Anti-Christ.
Do you mean the Pope?
http://www.pacinst.c
om/antichri.htm

The Bish. might well agree with you on that! ;-)
[quote][p][bold]Albion.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Another Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: The so-called 'austerity measures' and Welafre reforms are all about population reduction. The Powers that Be want to kill off as many poor people as possible. The people in power serve the Anti-Christ.[/p][/quote]Do you mean the Pope?[/p][/quote]http://www.pacinst.c om/antichri.htm The Bish. might well agree with you on that! ;-) Albion.
  • Score: 0

7:23pm Tue 4 Dec 12

WayneRouke says...

Andy2010 wrote:
Another Landless Peasant wrote:
BOYCOTT WORKFARE: http://www.boycottwo rkfare.org
Yes boycott work

Lets all just sit on our 4rses watching tv all day

Thats how to sort out the economy

Idiot
Whilst it goes against my better judgement, for once I have to agree with ALP (Erik - See lollerpedia.com).

Whilst fundamentally there is nothing wrong with the ideals and principle of the workfare program, in that it provides people with experience of working and (supposedly) a potential job at the end, it has been sabotaged and exploited by unscrupulous employers. They take people from the jobcentre for the purpose of a) obtaining free labour, b) laying off or cutting the hours of paid staff and c) not providing any job at the end. Pure exploitation in its rawest form.

Some employers had been quoted as saying, when a workfare 'employee; asked if there was a job at the end of the term, "Why should I pay you when I can ring the jobcentre and have somebody unpaid here in five minutes".

Another retail store has reduced its permanent, paid workforce and taken on this free labour, with absolutely no intention of employing them, but 'renewing' from a free 'stock pile'.

Another well known retailer, which traditionally takes on temporary paid xmas staff at this time, is not doing so, but taking them on the workfare scheme. This is saving them about two months wages per person..

Apparently, the candidates have no employment rights whatsoever, no sick or holiday, no health and safety induction and virtually no redress or grievance procedure. This is fundamentally wrong.

However, the boycotts seem to be working, as many companies are now withdrawing from the scheme.

The system has failed due to the employers, not the jobless or the government. The 'work for your benefit; is a good idea, but ONLY for the workshy and those who are cabable to work but not prepared to do so.

As I said before "It is fundamentally wrong to tax a working person almost to breaking point, then give it to a person who is able to work, but refuses to do so."

I have absolutely no objection to supporting those seeking work. I have every objection against those lazy good for nothing spongers who have no intention of working.

For those in the latter category, I say "The world does not owe you a living, go out and earn it". I have no time for such people and would feel no remorse if their benefit stopped altogether. If they turned to crime, then they would be caught and put in prison. Stopping benefits for the workshy should provide an incentive to actually go out and earn some.

I would agree in principle to replacing SOME cash benefit with vouchers for food and essential purchases, but, in order to remove any "stigma", I would make them saleable as well. Such vouchers would reduce abuse of the system, as the recipient would only be able to spend the vouchers on their intended items. This would mean that, for some, they would actually eat instead of drinking or taking drugs. There would have to be an element of cash benefit, but it would be reduced,

I would also fit pay as you go fuel meters, and the recipients have their card filled up each week with a given amount of money, which is enough to supply basic needs. If the recipient uses more then on the token then they can buy some more. Using such a system, there would be no reason for someone on benefits to go cold.

I have just monitored my fuel usage, and its approximately £3.00 per day, when being frugal, which is about £120.00 per month. I do not know what proportion of a persons benefit this represents, because I have not been unemployed for a long time.

I WOULD be interested to know which side of the fence ALP sits.. If he is unemployed is he:

a) Not physically capable of working.
b) Actively seeking ANY kind of work.
c) Not prepared to work at all
d) Only prepared to work under certain conditions.


But I do not wish to engage in any dialogue with ALP, as I believe his views clash with mine and he does not pose a constructive, debatable argument, but lays down his 'demands' (most of the time in caps)/

WR
[quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Another Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: BOYCOTT WORKFARE: http://www.boycottwo rkfare.org[/p][/quote]Yes boycott work Lets all just sit on our 4rses watching tv all day Thats how to sort out the economy Idiot[/p][/quote]Whilst it goes against my better judgement, for once I have to agree with ALP (Erik - See lollerpedia.com). Whilst fundamentally there is nothing wrong with the ideals and principle of the workfare program, in that it provides people with experience of working and (supposedly) a potential job at the end, it has been sabotaged and exploited by unscrupulous employers. They take people from the jobcentre for the purpose of a) obtaining free labour, b) laying off or cutting the hours of paid staff and c) not providing any job at the end. Pure exploitation in its rawest form. Some employers had been quoted as saying, when a workfare 'employee; asked if there was a job at the end of the term, "Why should I pay you when I can ring the jobcentre and have somebody unpaid here in five minutes". Another retail store has reduced its permanent, paid workforce and taken on this free labour, with absolutely no intention of employing them, but 'renewing' from a free 'stock pile'. Another well known retailer, which traditionally takes on temporary paid xmas staff at this time, is not doing so, but taking them on the workfare scheme. This is saving them about two months wages per person.. Apparently, the candidates have no employment rights whatsoever, no sick or holiday, no health and safety induction and virtually no redress or grievance procedure. This is fundamentally wrong. However, the boycotts seem to be working, as many companies are now withdrawing from the scheme. The system has failed due to the employers, not the jobless or the government. The 'work for your benefit; is a good idea, but ONLY for the workshy and those who are cabable to work but not prepared to do so. As I said before "It is fundamentally wrong to tax a working person almost to breaking point, then give it to a person who is able to work, but refuses to do so." I have absolutely no objection to supporting those seeking work. I have every objection against those lazy good for nothing spongers who have no intention of working. For those in the latter category, I say "The world does not owe you a living, go out and earn it". I have no time for such people and would feel no remorse if their benefit stopped altogether. If they turned to crime, then they would be caught and put in prison. Stopping benefits for the workshy should provide an incentive to actually go out and earn some. I would agree in principle to replacing SOME cash benefit with vouchers for food and essential purchases, but, in order to remove any "stigma", I would make them saleable as well. Such vouchers would reduce abuse of the system, as the recipient would only be able to spend the vouchers on their intended items. This would mean that, for some, they would actually eat instead of drinking or taking drugs. There would have to be an element of cash benefit, but it would be reduced, I would also fit pay as you go fuel meters, and the recipients have their card filled up each week with a given amount of money, which is enough to supply basic needs. If the recipient uses more then on the token then they can buy some more. Using such a system, there would be no reason for someone on benefits to go cold. I have just monitored my fuel usage, and its approximately £3.00 per day, when being frugal, which is about £120.00 per month. I do not know what proportion of a persons benefit this represents, because I have not been unemployed for a long time. I WOULD be interested to know which side of the fence ALP sits.. If he is unemployed is he: a) Not physically capable of working. b) Actively seeking ANY kind of work. c) Not prepared to work at all d) Only prepared to work under certain conditions. But I do not wish to engage in any dialogue with ALP, as I believe his views clash with mine and he does not pose a constructive, debatable argument, but lays down his 'demands' (most of the time in caps)/ WR WayneRouke
  • Score: 0

8:32pm Tue 4 Dec 12

Shelfrhino says...

Andy2010 wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote:
The Hump wrote: A family friend we have known for years was claiming incapacity benefit, he suffered abuse as a child and he was left very traumatized and had some severe mental health problems, we looked after him visiting him and taking him on shopping trips and doing what we could to help,if we didnt he would literally never have any human contact with any one, he was a nervous wreck, he got called to the medical and failed because the questions dont cover mental health, he was found hanging last week.
I wish this was an isolated incident but it's not. Here are the governments own figures. This is what ATOS is getting paid £100m a year for. "In total, between January 2011 and November 2011, some 10,600 claims ended and a date of death was recorded within six weeks of the claim end". http://statistics.dw p.gov.uk/asd/asd1/ad hoc_analysis/2012/in cap_decd_recips_0712 .pdf
Numbers and stats can mean anything..note the below from the report "The analysis below covers all cases where a date of death is given, whether or not the cause of death is related to the health issues leading to the incapacity benefit award. It would be expected that the mortality rate amongst those on incapacity benefits recipients would be higher than that in the general population as some people receive incapacity benefits due to life-threatening conditions or terminal illness." Those statistics are actually in line with the norm and nothing to do with withdrawal of benefits if you look into it closer I wonder how many people also died whilst were employed? Bet it was a hell of a lot more therefore this actually means nothing
"It would be expected that the mortality rate amongst those on incapacity benefits recipients would be higher than that in the general population as some people receive incapacity benefits due to life-threatening conditions or terminal illness." So what the hell is ATOS doing finding these people "fit for work"? If your going to throw figures about please quote your sorces preferably with a link as it stops you getting the repeated accusation of making it up as you go along as in the case of the 90% of food bank clients that you claim have substance abuse problems. How many deaths do you see as acceptable?
Urm my quote came from the report you linked above so your source not mine

Or do you do what so many do and just cherry pick information without looking into it
I think that what they call being owned.
[quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Hump[/bold] wrote: A family friend we have known for years was claiming incapacity benefit, he suffered abuse as a child and he was left very traumatized and had some severe mental health problems, we looked after him visiting him and taking him on shopping trips and doing what we could to help,if we didnt he would literally never have any human contact with any one, he was a nervous wreck, he got called to the medical and failed because the questions dont cover mental health, he was found hanging last week.[/p][/quote]I wish this was an isolated incident but it's not. Here are the governments own figures. This is what ATOS is getting paid £100m a year for. "In total, between January 2011 and November 2011, some 10,600 claims ended and a date of death was recorded within six weeks of the claim end". http://statistics.dw p.gov.uk/asd/asd1/ad hoc_analysis/2012/in cap_decd_recips_0712 .pdf[/p][/quote]Numbers and stats can mean anything..note the below from the report "The analysis below covers all cases where a date of death is given, whether or not the cause of death is related to the health issues leading to the incapacity benefit award. It would be expected that the mortality rate amongst those on incapacity benefits recipients would be higher than that in the general population as some people receive incapacity benefits due to life-threatening conditions or terminal illness." Those statistics are actually in line with the norm and nothing to do with withdrawal of benefits if you look into it closer I wonder how many people also died whilst were employed? Bet it was a hell of a lot more therefore this actually means nothing[/p][/quote]"It would be expected that the mortality rate amongst those on incapacity benefits recipients would be higher than that in the general population as some people receive incapacity benefits due to life-threatening conditions or terminal illness." So what the hell is ATOS doing finding these people "fit for work"? If your going to throw figures about please quote your sorces preferably with a link as it stops you getting the repeated accusation of making it up as you go along as in the case of the 90% of food bank clients that you claim have substance abuse problems. How many deaths do you see as acceptable?[/p][/quote]Urm my quote came from the report you linked above so your source not mine Or do you do what so many do and just cherry pick information without looking into it[/p][/quote]I think that what they call being owned. Shelfrhino
  • Score: 0

9:20pm Tue 4 Dec 12

WayneRouke says...

Oh ****, Lollerpedia has changed again

Here is an updated link::

http://www.mrsite.co
.uk/usersitesv40/Lol
lerpedia.com/wwwroot
/page51.htm
Oh ****, Lollerpedia has changed again Here is an updated link:: http://www.mrsite.co .uk/usersitesv40/Lol lerpedia.com/wwwroot /page51.htm WayneRouke
  • Score: 0

2:31pm Wed 5 Dec 12

Another Landless Peasant says...

"Sell your possessions, give the money to the poor, and come follow me"

Jesus Christ
"Sell your possessions, give the money to the poor, and come follow me" Jesus Christ Another Landless Peasant
  • Score: 0

2:55pm Wed 5 Dec 12

Another Landless Peasant says...

New figures from Crisis show the number of homeless people in England has risen by 23%.

"Homelessness in England has risen by almost a quarter, according to the charity Crisis.

They say unemployment, the housing market and welfare cuts are to blame."

http://www.bbc.co.uk
/newsbeat/20603206
New figures from Crisis show the number of homeless people in England has risen by 23%. "Homelessness in England has risen by almost a quarter, according to the charity Crisis. They say unemployment, the housing market and welfare cuts are to blame." http://www.bbc.co.uk /newsbeat/20603206 Another Landless Peasant
  • Score: 0

4:15pm Wed 5 Dec 12

Andy2010 says...

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
New figures from Crisis show the number of homeless people in England has risen by 23%. "Homelessness in England has risen by almost a quarter, according to the charity Crisis. They say unemployment, the housing market and welfare cuts are to blame." http://www.bbc.co.uk /newsbeat/20603206
And?

Theres help out there for anyone so no need for anyone in the UK to be homeless at all

At least the Chancellor today did the right thing and limited the increase in benefits for the next three years to 1%. After all why should anyone on benefits receive more increase than those in employment.
[quote][p][bold]Another Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: New figures from Crisis show the number of homeless people in England has risen by 23%. "Homelessness in England has risen by almost a quarter, according to the charity Crisis. They say unemployment, the housing market and welfare cuts are to blame." http://www.bbc.co.uk /newsbeat/20603206[/p][/quote]And? Theres help out there for anyone so no need for anyone in the UK to be homeless at all At least the Chancellor today did the right thing and limited the increase in benefits for the next three years to 1%. After all why should anyone on benefits receive more increase than those in employment. Andy2010
  • Score: 0

4:30pm Wed 5 Dec 12

Albion. says...

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
"Sell your possessions, give the money to the poor, and come follow me"

Jesus Christ
And look what happened to him!
[quote][p][bold]Another Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: "Sell your possessions, give the money to the poor, and come follow me" Jesus Christ[/p][/quote]And look what happened to him! Albion.
  • Score: 0

4:50pm Wed 5 Dec 12

Andy2010 says...

Albion. wrote:
Another Landless Peasant wrote: "Sell your possessions, give the money to the poor, and come follow me" Jesus Christ
And look what happened to him!
And note his "followers" quickly fled if the stories are to be believed

That sentence though "Sell your possessions, give the money to the poor, and come follow me"

I believe its called a cult if you do that nowadays and you are classed as mental
[quote][p][bold]Albion.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Another Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: "Sell your possessions, give the money to the poor, and come follow me" Jesus Christ[/p][/quote]And look what happened to him![/p][/quote]And note his "followers" quickly fled if the stories are to be believed That sentence though "Sell your possessions, give the money to the poor, and come follow me" I believe its called a cult if you do that nowadays and you are classed as mental Andy2010
  • Score: 0

6:07pm Wed 5 Dec 12

fabricator666 says...

Cityman23 wrote:
In the present circumstances a British govt. coul instead:

For example:

*Put its best 'minds' to work in thinking of ways to close down tax loopholes-make those getting away with paying little/no tax pay their 'share' eg Vodaphone, Starbucks, Google, Amazon etc

* Bring in a financial transactions tax of 0.02% on each/every financial transaction re: banks/financiers. It is reckoned this could bring in £100 billion.

* Set to work on a programme of building social-housing for the one million homeless in Britain.

* Scrap the expensive Trident replacement missile programme which is both immoral/useless (worth £75-100 million.

* Cease getting involved in foreign wars-we've wasted £billions on these over the last 20 years!

* Invest in green technology in a serious manner

Yet, this government WON'T do any of these....WHY...becau

se these suggestions won't work? No..because it goes against the right-wing neo-Liberal 'mindset'!
since when were right wing and liberal used in the same context? You really do make me laugh with you ignorance. Typical Bratfud
[quote][p][bold]Cityman23[/bold] wrote: In the present circumstances a British govt. coul instead: For example: *Put its best 'minds' to work in thinking of ways to close down tax loopholes-make those getting away with paying little/no tax pay their 'share' eg Vodaphone, Starbucks, Google, Amazon etc * Bring in a financial transactions tax of 0.02% on each/every financial transaction re: banks/financiers. It is reckoned this could bring in £100 billion. * Set to work on a programme of building social-housing for the one million homeless in Britain. * Scrap the expensive Trident replacement missile programme which is both immoral/useless (worth £75-100 million. * Cease getting involved in foreign wars-we've wasted £billions on these over the last 20 years! * Invest in green technology in a serious manner Yet, this government WON'T do any of these....WHY...becau se these suggestions won't work? No..because it goes against the right-wing neo-Liberal 'mindset'![/p][/quote]since when were right wing and liberal used in the same context? You really do make me laugh with you ignorance. Typical Bratfud fabricator666
  • Score: 0

6:07pm Wed 5 Dec 12

fabricator666 says...

Cityman23 wrote:
In the present circumstances a British govt. coul instead:

For example:

*Put its best 'minds' to work in thinking of ways to close down tax loopholes-make those getting away with paying little/no tax pay their 'share' eg Vodaphone, Starbucks, Google, Amazon etc

* Bring in a financial transactions tax of 0.02% on each/every financial transaction re: banks/financiers. It is reckoned this could bring in £100 billion.

* Set to work on a programme of building social-housing for the one million homeless in Britain.

* Scrap the expensive Trident replacement missile programme which is both immoral/useless (worth £75-100 million.

* Cease getting involved in foreign wars-we've wasted £billions on these over the last 20 years!

* Invest in green technology in a serious manner

Yet, this government WON'T do any of these....WHY...becau

se these suggestions won't work? No..because it goes against the right-wing neo-Liberal 'mindset'!
since when were right wing and liberal used in the same context? You really do make me laugh with you ignorance. Typical Bratfud
[quote][p][bold]Cityman23[/bold] wrote: In the present circumstances a British govt. coul instead: For example: *Put its best 'minds' to work in thinking of ways to close down tax loopholes-make those getting away with paying little/no tax pay their 'share' eg Vodaphone, Starbucks, Google, Amazon etc * Bring in a financial transactions tax of 0.02% on each/every financial transaction re: banks/financiers. It is reckoned this could bring in £100 billion. * Set to work on a programme of building social-housing for the one million homeless in Britain. * Scrap the expensive Trident replacement missile programme which is both immoral/useless (worth £75-100 million. * Cease getting involved in foreign wars-we've wasted £billions on these over the last 20 years! * Invest in green technology in a serious manner Yet, this government WON'T do any of these....WHY...becau se these suggestions won't work? No..because it goes against the right-wing neo-Liberal 'mindset'![/p][/quote]since when were right wing and liberal used in the same context? You really do make me laugh with you ignorance. Typical Bratfud fabricator666
  • Score: 0

6:11pm Wed 5 Dec 12

fabricator666 says...

dellorri wrote:
Boy, you can certainly see who the Con/Dem supporters are on this subject can't you, and of course in their opinion their right, because none of the cuts are going to affect them......yet. But what happens say, when 2015 comes along, and the government goes ahead with its plan to axe housing benefit for under 25's, and your children who are students away from home have to come back to your house and can't stay at uni anymore. What happens when the elderly neighbour you know, who ISN'T a millionaire pensioner (there aren't that many) can't afford her heating and dies of hypothermia. what happens when you need emergency surgery and you're left on a trolley in the corridor for hours waiting and they tell you "sorry it's because of the cutbacks in our finances." these are all thing's which I've seen espoused in the above comments. What happens if one of you god forbid should lose your job through no fault of your own and you consequently can't keep up the mortgage, you lose your house and have to depend on benefits.......But they aren't there??? What then??? think about it. In this day and age of uncertainty. It could quite easily be you.
the cuts affect everyone. Labour created the mess we're in you fool. 12 years of absolute profligacy means we'll need 12 years of austerity. It really is that simple.I'm so glad i saw it coming and SAVED
[quote][p][bold]dellorri[/bold] wrote: Boy, you can certainly see who the Con/Dem supporters are on this subject can't you, and of course in their opinion their right, because none of the cuts are going to affect them......yet. But what happens say, when 2015 comes along, and the government goes ahead with its plan to axe housing benefit for under 25's, and your children who are students away from home have to come back to your house and can't stay at uni anymore. What happens when the elderly neighbour you know, who ISN'T a millionaire pensioner (there aren't that many) can't afford her heating and dies of hypothermia. what happens when you need emergency surgery and you're left on a trolley in the corridor for hours waiting and they tell you "sorry it's because of the cutbacks in our finances." these are all thing's which I've seen espoused in the above comments. What happens if one of you god forbid should lose your job through no fault of your own and you consequently can't keep up the mortgage, you lose your house and have to depend on benefits.......But they aren't there??? What then??? think about it. In this day and age of uncertainty. It could quite easily be you.[/p][/quote]the cuts affect everyone. Labour created the mess we're in you fool. 12 years of absolute profligacy means we'll need 12 years of austerity. It really is that simple.I'm so glad i saw it coming and SAVED fabricator666
  • Score: 0

8:40pm Wed 5 Dec 12

spadix47 says...

Cityman23 wrote:
webess wrote:
The welfare bill is spiralling out of control and does need to be curtailed unless we want to end up like Greece minus the sunshine.
It isn't a 'welfare bill spiralling out of control' it's a Conservative- dominated coalition government determined to push neo-liberal policies, on the pretext of bringing the deficit down.

These policies, pushed hard also in the USA since circa 1980 are all about:

*Cutting taxes for the rich
*Cutting benefits for the poor
*Cutting /Privatising as much of the Public Services as possible
*Keeping wages low
*keeping workers fearful of losing jobs/maleable
*Cutting workers rights eg health/safety etc
*Transferring the 'blame' for the financial 'crash' from those REALLY responsible ie bankers/financiers/p

oliticians (all conservative in nature!) TO those who are unemployed, poor, immigrants etc!

This present British govt. has been very successful in pushing this 'big lie.'

It is of course all ultimately aimed at transferring wealth from the majority (ordinary people) to the most wealthy and, at the moment this policy is succeeding. Hence the gap between rich/poor is wider now than for many, many decades.

In Greece, Spain, Portugal and Italy, the people have got wise to the Neo-liberal 'game' and have taken to the streets.

In Britain, we have been largely passive, docile up to now! (NB: Even the Gov. of Bank Of England spoke out recently, to say hewas surprised there hadn't a greater public outcry/response.

Yet, the worst of the cuts have not truly 'bitten'. When they do....
I absolutely agree with you, cityman. I wonder when people are going to wake up to the fact that this government cares nothing for the 'have-nots' and the vulnerable, whilst protecting those who already have more than enough. Remember that every millionaire will get a tax present of £40,000 next April, whilst services which are sorely needed are being cut. Osborne is incompetently pursuing the neo-con economic policies which will NOT stimulate demand and which will bring our treasured and humane welfare state to its knees.
[quote][p][bold]Cityman23[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]webess[/bold] wrote: The welfare bill is spiralling out of control and does need to be curtailed unless we want to end up like Greece minus the sunshine.[/p][/quote]It isn't a 'welfare bill spiralling out of control' it's a Conservative- dominated coalition government determined to push neo-liberal policies, on the pretext of bringing the deficit down. These policies, pushed hard also in the USA since circa 1980 are all about: *Cutting taxes for the rich *Cutting benefits for the poor *Cutting /Privatising as much of the Public Services as possible *Keeping wages low *keeping workers fearful of losing jobs/maleable *Cutting workers rights eg health/safety etc *Transferring the 'blame' for the financial 'crash' from those REALLY responsible ie bankers/financiers/p oliticians (all conservative in nature!) TO those who are unemployed, poor, immigrants etc! This present British govt. has been very successful in pushing this 'big lie.' It is of course all ultimately aimed at transferring wealth from the majority (ordinary people) to the most wealthy and, at the moment this policy is succeeding. Hence the gap between rich/poor is wider now than for many, many decades. In Greece, Spain, Portugal and Italy, the people have got wise to the Neo-liberal 'game' and have taken to the streets. In Britain, we have been largely passive, docile up to now! (NB: Even the Gov. of Bank Of England spoke out recently, to say hewas surprised there hadn't a greater public outcry/response. Yet, the worst of the cuts have not truly 'bitten'. When they do....[/p][/quote]I absolutely agree with you, cityman. I wonder when people are going to wake up to the fact that this government cares nothing for the 'have-nots' and the vulnerable, whilst protecting those who already have more than enough. Remember that every millionaire will get a tax present of £40,000 next April, whilst services which are sorely needed are being cut. Osborne is incompetently pursuing the neo-con economic policies which will NOT stimulate demand and which will bring our treasured and humane welfare state to its knees. spadix47
  • Score: 0

10:22pm Wed 5 Dec 12

Adeybull says...

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
dellorri wrote:
Boy, you can certainly see who the Con/Dem supporters are on this subject can't you, and of course in their opinion their right, because none of the cuts are going to affect them......yet. But what happens say, when 2015 comes along, and the government goes ahead with its plan to axe housing benefit for under 25's, and your children who are students away from home have to come back to your house and can't stay at uni anymore. What happens when the elderly neighbour you know, who ISN'T a millionaire pensioner (there aren't that many) can't afford her heating and dies of hypothermia. what happens when you need emergency surgery and you're left on a trolley in the corridor for hours waiting and they tell you "sorry it's because of the cutbacks in our finances." these are all thing's which I've seen espoused in the above comments. What happens if one of you god forbid should lose your job through no fault of your own and you consequently can't keep up the mortgage, you lose your house and have to depend on benefits.......But they aren't there??? What then??? think about it. In this day and age of uncertainty. It could quite easily be you.
You come out with the same on the forums, but once again just to confirm it for you.

You will find that everyone believes that the elderly and those who can't look after themselves deserve to be looked after.

You'll also find that those out there that fall on hard times through no fault of their own deserve to fall into the safety net of the welfare system for the short term till they get back into work.

The thing is we aren't talking about these people, we are talking about those with many kids who don't work but have their houses and such paid for them by their very neighbours who go to work, pay through the nose in childcare and are struggling to make ends meet.

I know some people who say they don't require the winter fuel allowance but still accept it, after all they paid into the system all their lives, they could happily live without it. And thats the problem because there are many out there like this, in theory the winter fuel allowance is a good idea but in reality many need it but equally others don't.

Like I said above there will be families who probably need it more even after working all day long still struggle to heat the house.

Don't kid yourself that there aren't hundreds of thousands of people playing the system.

If these people were dealt with and weren't playing the system those that do need it wouldn't end up under so much scrutiny, so lay the finger of blame at them.
You know TVOR, you don't half spout some bolloques sometimes...

...on responses Bulls stories.

But on this thread at least, you certainly ARE a voice of reason. Well said.
[quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]dellorri[/bold] wrote: Boy, you can certainly see who the Con/Dem supporters are on this subject can't you, and of course in their opinion their right, because none of the cuts are going to affect them......yet. But what happens say, when 2015 comes along, and the government goes ahead with its plan to axe housing benefit for under 25's, and your children who are students away from home have to come back to your house and can't stay at uni anymore. What happens when the elderly neighbour you know, who ISN'T a millionaire pensioner (there aren't that many) can't afford her heating and dies of hypothermia. what happens when you need emergency surgery and you're left on a trolley in the corridor for hours waiting and they tell you "sorry it's because of the cutbacks in our finances." these are all thing's which I've seen espoused in the above comments. What happens if one of you god forbid should lose your job through no fault of your own and you consequently can't keep up the mortgage, you lose your house and have to depend on benefits.......But they aren't there??? What then??? think about it. In this day and age of uncertainty. It could quite easily be you.[/p][/quote]You come out with the same on the forums, but once again just to confirm it for you. You will find that everyone believes that the elderly and those who can't look after themselves deserve to be looked after. You'll also find that those out there that fall on hard times through no fault of their own deserve to fall into the safety net of the welfare system for the short term till they get back into work. The thing is we aren't talking about these people, we are talking about those with many kids who don't work but have their houses and such paid for them by their very neighbours who go to work, pay through the nose in childcare and are struggling to make ends meet. I know some people who say they don't require the winter fuel allowance but still accept it, after all they paid into the system all their lives, they could happily live without it. And thats the problem because there are many out there like this, in theory the winter fuel allowance is a good idea but in reality many need it but equally others don't. Like I said above there will be families who probably need it more even after working all day long still struggle to heat the house. Don't kid yourself that there aren't hundreds of thousands of people playing the system. If these people were dealt with and weren't playing the system those that do need it wouldn't end up under so much scrutiny, so lay the finger of blame at them.[/p][/quote]You know TVOR, you don't half spout some bolloques sometimes... ...on responses Bulls stories. But on this thread at least, you certainly ARE a voice of reason. Well said. Adeybull
  • Score: 0

11:04am Thu 6 Dec 12

bradfordian says...

The majority of people on benefits have paid their tax and national insurance. One Mr Cameron claimed Disability Living Allowance for his son, not because he need the money, he is a multi - millionaire but because he was entitled. Is there one law for them and another law for the poor?People claim benefits because they need them. Oh I forgot compassion has flown out of the window. Sad state of affairs when a country panders to the elite and dismisses the poor. Very judgemental.
The majority of people on benefits have paid their tax and national insurance. One Mr Cameron claimed Disability Living Allowance for his son, not because he need the money, he is a multi - millionaire but because he was entitled. Is there one law for them and another law for the poor?People claim benefits because they need them. Oh I forgot compassion has flown out of the window. Sad state of affairs when a country panders to the elite and dismisses the poor. Very judgemental. bradfordian
  • Score: 0

11:15am Thu 6 Dec 12

Andy2010 says...

bradfordian wrote:
The majority of people on benefits have paid their tax and national insurance. One Mr Cameron claimed Disability Living Allowance for his son, not because he need the money, he is a multi - millionaire but because he was entitled. Is there one law for them and another law for the poor?People claim benefits because they need them. Oh I forgot compassion has flown out of the window. Sad state of affairs when a country panders to the elite and dismisses the poor. Very judgemental.
Whilst it might be the way this is exactly as things have ALWAYS been. No government will EVER change that.

Is you cant beat em join em I say
[quote][p][bold]bradfordian[/bold] wrote: The majority of people on benefits have paid their tax and national insurance. One Mr Cameron claimed Disability Living Allowance for his son, not because he need the money, he is a multi - millionaire but because he was entitled. Is there one law for them and another law for the poor?People claim benefits because they need them. Oh I forgot compassion has flown out of the window. Sad state of affairs when a country panders to the elite and dismisses the poor. Very judgemental.[/p][/quote]Whilst it might be the way this is exactly as things have ALWAYS been. No government will EVER change that. Is you cant beat em join em I say Andy2010
  • Score: 0

1:48pm Thu 6 Dec 12

Another Landless Peasant says...

I bet David Cameron doesn't wake up in a morning to mfind his electricity has run out and he can't light the heating, or know what it's like to have to use the toilet by candle light, to not afford to take a shower everyday, in 21st Century Britain. Is this the land fit for heroes that our forefathers fought for?
I bet David Cameron doesn't wake up in a morning to mfind his electricity has run out and he can't light the heating, or know what it's like to have to use the toilet by candle light, to not afford to take a shower everyday, in 21st Century Britain. Is this the land fit for heroes that our forefathers fought for? Another Landless Peasant
  • Score: 0

2:33pm Thu 6 Dec 12

Andy2010 says...

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
I bet David Cameron doesn't wake up in a morning to mfind his electricity has run out and he can't light the heating, or know what it's like to have to use the toilet by candle light, to not afford to take a shower everyday, in 21st Century Britain. Is this the land fit for heroes that our forefathers fought for?
Why would he as I dont when he works for his salary

I dont understand so could someone please enlighten how the £70 a week isnt enough to get by on. On the presumption that the council tax is paid and rent is covered

£25 a week for Gas
£10 a week for Elec
£20 a week to feed yourself (easily done for one person)
£6 a week water

This leaves £10 surplus every week. Why would anyone not be able to afford to heat their home ?
[quote][p][bold]Another Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: I bet David Cameron doesn't wake up in a morning to mfind his electricity has run out and he can't light the heating, or know what it's like to have to use the toilet by candle light, to not afford to take a shower everyday, in 21st Century Britain. Is this the land fit for heroes that our forefathers fought for?[/p][/quote]Why would he as I dont when he works for his salary I dont understand so could someone please enlighten how the £70 a week isnt enough to get by on. On the presumption that the council tax is paid and rent is covered £25 a week for Gas £10 a week for Elec £20 a week to feed yourself (easily done for one person) £6 a week water This leaves £10 surplus every week. Why would anyone not be able to afford to heat their home ? Andy2010
  • Score: 0

5:18pm Thu 6 Dec 12

notfromtheseparts says...

I've taken the time to read every post and if you stopped bickering between yourselves and took note of each post, you'd see everyone has a very valid point. This world would be a very dull place if everyone agreed. Being on benefits I know Andy isn't going to like this but I'm going to give my situation.

I'm disabled with an illness that may not kill me immediately but very well could, and it's incurable. I was recently transferred from IB to ESA WITHOUT A MEDICAL (this bit is important, the majority of people have medicals, even those having chemotherapy. I wasn't asked to have one and was placed directly onto Contribution based ESA) I do have many ailments but most of them aren't recognised by ATOS. I have brain damage caused by having Meningitis as a child and I also have 2 brain tumours. One has grown a tiny bit in the past 5 years, the other hasn't done anything. I am in no immediate risk of developing cancer but one of these tumours has causes Epilepsy. I also have a severe mental illness caused by long term sexual abuse I was subjected to as a child and was diagnosed with PTSD when I was 23 but was refused treatment so my problems went on and on until finally I broke down and ended up in a mental health unit. No support network for me as it was my family that abused me. Because I worked long and hard for my money before someone decided I should never be let out in public again (my boss) I am now only entitled to benefits for the next 9 months. Luckily for me I met a very lovely guy who is able to provide for me (based on money his parents invested when his grandparents died 30 years ago).

I have appealed against my decision. The reason I have appealed is because my benefits award decision was made by a registered nurse. According to the Welfare Reform Act, written by Lord Freud (A Tory Andy, this is also important) only a person qualified in the field of "complex disorders of the central nervous system" are qualified to make a decision based on recommendations by my neurologist. Now, correct me if I'm wrong but if you're fully qualified to be a neurologist, you don't choose to be a registered nurse. The £200k per year wage difference tells me that the registered nurse is NOT a neurologist therefore is not qualified to make a judgement about my health. This was a law written by Tories last year so Labour cannot be blamed for that little screw up can they? Labour brought in ATOS and if they did their jobs properly and followed the law then I don't for a single second doubt they'd be doing a good job, the same as the Workfare schemes, as I see it the whole thing is corrupt and a blatant attempt to fudge the figures. My husband is, sorry WAS a Tory supporter and plans to go to Davies should my appeal get rejected. If I am to follow government guidelines regarding ESA then by God my husband is going to make sure that the Government follows the law that they themselves have written. There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for breaking the law especially if a consequence of such an action would have a severe detrimental affect on someone else, death being a possible outcome. A friend of mine died of a heart attack the day before his final appeal. He was on a waiting list for surgery but died before it could be done. He had been found fit for work by ATOS (Stephen Hill of Duckmanton)

Oh, and what planet do you live on that the only bills you have are gas, electric water and food??
I've taken the time to read every post and if you stopped bickering between yourselves and took note of each post, you'd see everyone has a very valid point. This world would be a very dull place if everyone agreed. Being on benefits I know Andy isn't going to like this but I'm going to give my situation. I'm disabled with an illness that may not kill me immediately but very well could, and it's incurable. I was recently transferred from IB to ESA WITHOUT A MEDICAL (this bit is important, the majority of people have medicals, even those having chemotherapy. I wasn't asked to have one and was placed directly onto Contribution based ESA) I do have many ailments but most of them aren't recognised by ATOS. I have brain damage caused by having Meningitis as a child and I also have 2 brain tumours. One has grown a tiny bit in the past 5 years, the other hasn't done anything. I am in no immediate risk of developing cancer but one of these tumours has causes Epilepsy. I also have a severe mental illness caused by long term sexual abuse I was subjected to as a child and was diagnosed with PTSD when I was 23 but was refused treatment so my problems went on and on until finally I broke down and ended up in a mental health unit. No support network for me as it was my family that abused me. Because I worked long and hard for my money before someone decided I should never be let out in public again (my boss) I am now only entitled to benefits for the next 9 months. Luckily for me I met a very lovely guy who is able to provide for me (based on money his parents invested when his grandparents died 30 years ago). I have appealed against my decision. The reason I have appealed is because my benefits award decision was made by a registered nurse. According to the Welfare Reform Act, written by Lord Freud (A Tory Andy, this is also important) only a person qualified in the field of "complex disorders of the central nervous system" are qualified to make a decision based on recommendations by my neurologist. Now, correct me if I'm wrong but if you're fully qualified to be a neurologist, you don't choose to be a registered nurse. The £200k per year wage difference tells me that the registered nurse is NOT a neurologist therefore is not qualified to make a judgement about my health. This was a law written by Tories last year so Labour cannot be blamed for that little screw up can they? Labour brought in ATOS and if they did their jobs properly and followed the law then I don't for a single second doubt they'd be doing a good job, the same as the Workfare schemes, as I see it the whole thing is corrupt and a blatant attempt to fudge the figures. My husband is, sorry WAS a Tory supporter and plans to go to Davies should my appeal get rejected. If I am to follow government guidelines regarding ESA then by God my husband is going to make sure that the Government follows the law that they themselves have written. There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for breaking the law especially if a consequence of such an action would have a severe detrimental affect on someone else, death being a possible outcome. A friend of mine died of a heart attack the day before his final appeal. He was on a waiting list for surgery but died before it could be done. He had been found fit for work by ATOS (Stephen Hill of Duckmanton) Oh, and what planet do you live on that the only bills you have are gas, electric water and food?? notfromtheseparts
  • Score: 0

8:10pm Thu 6 Dec 12

Bellamaie1 says...

People think every body who is on benefits are just lazy and cant be bothered finding a job. Well actually there is a percentage yes but why should genuine people who are trying hard to find work and getting no where be branded the same. Living on benefits is hard do you think most people who are on benefits from being made redundant etc would not like to be able to provide properly for thereselves and their family and give them a better way of life. People who have a job fair enough well done can easily sit there and judge but god forbid what will happen to you if you ever are made redudant or some thing happens so you can longer work very easy for you to judge but you would be labeled the same as any benefit claimer is a scrounger, lazy and waste of spaces. Being on benefits is hard. Yes i am very very grateful for them but its hardily much to live on. How about people who are so easy to judge reverse the rolls let us do your job for six months and you live on benefits for six months and see your opinion then !!
People think every body who is on benefits are just lazy and cant be bothered finding a job. Well actually there is a percentage yes but why should genuine people who are trying hard to find work and getting no where be branded the same. Living on benefits is hard do you think most people who are on benefits from being made redundant etc would not like to be able to provide properly for thereselves and their family and give them a better way of life. People who have a job fair enough well done can easily sit there and judge but god forbid what will happen to you if you ever are made redudant or some thing happens so you can longer work very easy for you to judge but you would be labeled the same as any benefit claimer is a scrounger, lazy and waste of spaces. Being on benefits is hard. Yes i am very very grateful for them but its hardily much to live on. How about people who are so easy to judge reverse the rolls let us do your job for six months and you live on benefits for six months and see your opinion then !! Bellamaie1
  • Score: 0

9:29pm Thu 6 Dec 12

Shelfrhino says...

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
I bet David Cameron doesn't wake up in a morning to mfind his electricity has run out and he can't light the heating, or know what it's like to have to use the toilet by candle light, to not afford to take a shower everyday, in 21st Century Britain. Is this the land fit for heroes that our forefathers fought for?
So what are you saying here, that you're some kind of hero?
[quote][p][bold]Another Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: I bet David Cameron doesn't wake up in a morning to mfind his electricity has run out and he can't light the heating, or know what it's like to have to use the toilet by candle light, to not afford to take a shower everyday, in 21st Century Britain. Is this the land fit for heroes that our forefathers fought for?[/p][/quote]So what are you saying here, that you're some kind of hero? Shelfrhino
  • Score: 0

11:37pm Thu 6 Dec 12

thruth9211 says...

I found out that when on benefits, courses at college are totally free, but a person like me who is on a low wage, has to pay over £1500 for a part time course

What a non sense, i say all should pay for a course,

Its getting beyound a joke now

grow up and tell people to work, even for £2

Oh yeah and get taxes from dirty tar ts on thornton road

Every bit helps
I found out that when on benefits, courses at college are totally free, but a person like me who is on a low wage, has to pay over £1500 for a part time course What a non sense, i say all should pay for a course, Its getting beyound a joke now grow up and tell people to work, even for £2 Oh yeah and get taxes from dirty tar ts on thornton road Every bit helps thruth9211
  • Score: 0

11:55pm Thu 6 Dec 12

thruth9211 says...

Albion. wrote:
Another Landless Peasant wrote:
I feel sorry for the poor Council workers, those who have already lost their jobs and those who are left behind somehow running the show whilst worrying about their jobs too. The Tories and their Lib counterparts are causing absolute chaos in this country. They have a lot to answer for already, but no one will forget this criminally insane Government for a very long time to come. This is probably THE worst government in England ever, or at least going right back to King John and his Norman Barons. They are pure evil and we must all do our bit to resist them at all costs. The very future of England depends upon it.
So how come every morning when I walk down the road I pass large houses costing anything up to a million pounds,and all of them occupied, and when I get to the main road there are stream after stream of twenty thousand pound plus cars (BMW series 3 is in the top ten sellers in this country) and I get into Leeds and it's absolutely heaving with shoppers and all the trains arriving at the station there are full?
You want to try mixing in better company instead of hanging out with the "lets bemoan our lot" brigade.
you got two eyes,

then god exists
[quote][p][bold]Albion.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Another Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: I feel sorry for the poor Council workers, those who have already lost their jobs and those who are left behind somehow running the show whilst worrying about their jobs too. The Tories and their Lib counterparts are causing absolute chaos in this country. They have a lot to answer for already, but no one will forget this criminally insane Government for a very long time to come. This is probably THE worst government in England ever, or at least going right back to King John and his Norman Barons. They are pure evil and we must all do our bit to resist them at all costs. The very future of England depends upon it.[/p][/quote]So how come every morning when I walk down the road I pass large houses costing anything up to a million pounds,and all of them occupied, and when I get to the main road there are stream after stream of twenty thousand pound plus cars (BMW series 3 is in the top ten sellers in this country) and I get into Leeds and it's absolutely heaving with shoppers and all the trains arriving at the station there are full? You want to try mixing in better company instead of hanging out with the "lets bemoan our lot" brigade.[/p][/quote]you got two eyes, then god exists thruth9211
  • Score: 0

12:22pm Fri 7 Dec 12

notfromtheseparts says...

thruth9211 wrote:
I found out that when on benefits, courses at college are totally free, but a person like me who is on a low wage, has to pay over £1500 for a part time course

What a non sense, i say all should pay for a course,

Its getting beyound a joke now

grow up and tell people to work, even for £2

Oh yeah and get taxes from dirty tar ts on thornton road

Every bit helps
Jeez, what course are you going on that costs £1500 and where for that matter? For people on low income part time short term courses are the only option, the cheapest being £99 and NO ONE ON THE PLANET gets a reduction on it. You know, it would be nice to read comments with facts in them rather than Tory propaganda. And do me a favour, don't insult me by assuming I'm a Labourite. My old village is run by Labour and in my own personal opinion the entire place needs a bomb dropping on it with the local politicians marking out the X where the bomb needs to land.
[quote][p][bold]thruth9211[/bold] wrote: I found out that when on benefits, courses at college are totally free, but a person like me who is on a low wage, has to pay over £1500 for a part time course What a non sense, i say all should pay for a course, Its getting beyound a joke now grow up and tell people to work, even for £2 Oh yeah and get taxes from dirty tar ts on thornton road Every bit helps[/p][/quote]Jeez, what course are you going on that costs £1500 and where for that matter? For people on low income part time short term courses are the only option, the cheapest being £99 and NO ONE ON THE PLANET gets a reduction on it. You know, it would be nice to read comments with facts in them rather than Tory propaganda. And do me a favour, don't insult me by assuming I'm a Labourite. My old village is run by Labour and in my own personal opinion the entire place needs a bomb dropping on it with the local politicians marking out the X where the bomb needs to land. notfromtheseparts
  • Score: 0

3:24pm Fri 7 Dec 12

thruth9211 says...

Roman Copija had a 'bad temper' when drinking, says witness

Amazing how drinking is implicated in many ways to justife actions

Simple alcohol is worse that CLASS A drugs, but the government support the drink for TAX scheme

Also like to mention, T&A allows for comments against muslims, but when like is said about christians, the comments are removed

Propoganda my media to incite aggression
Roman Copija had a 'bad temper' when drinking, says witness Amazing how drinking is implicated in many ways to justife actions Simple alcohol is worse that CLASS A drugs, but the government support the drink for TAX scheme Also like to mention, T&A allows for comments against muslims, but when like is said about christians, the comments are removed Propoganda my media to incite aggression thruth9211
  • Score: 0

4:14pm Fri 7 Dec 12

Andy2010 says...

thruth9211 wrote:
Roman Copija had a 'bad temper' when drinking, says witness Amazing how drinking is implicated in many ways to justife actions Simple alcohol is worse that CLASS A drugs, but the government support the drink for TAX scheme Also like to mention, T&A allows for comments against muslims, but when like is said about christians, the comments are removed Propoganda my media to incite aggression
Your are clearly mad
[quote][p][bold]thruth9211[/bold] wrote: Roman Copija had a 'bad temper' when drinking, says witness Amazing how drinking is implicated in many ways to justife actions Simple alcohol is worse that CLASS A drugs, but the government support the drink for TAX scheme Also like to mention, T&A allows for comments against muslims, but when like is said about christians, the comments are removed Propoganda my media to incite aggression[/p][/quote]Your are clearly mad Andy2010
  • Score: 0

7:00pm Fri 7 Dec 12

RollandSmoke says...

thruth9211 wrote:
Roman Copija had a 'bad temper' when drinking, says witness

Amazing how drinking is implicated in many ways to justife actions

Simple alcohol is worse that CLASS A drugs, but the government support the drink for TAX scheme

Also like to mention, T&A allows for comments against muslims, but when like is said about christians, the comments are removed

Propoganda my media to incite aggression
Does your religion permit the use of anti-psychotics? After all you are a child of Abraham who was clearly schizophrenic and experienced voices in his head telling him to kill his child. His children for his other wife are still experiencing extreme delusions of grandure to this day. Help is available for those that seek it. Don't suffer in silence
[quote][p][bold]thruth9211[/bold] wrote: Roman Copija had a 'bad temper' when drinking, says witness Amazing how drinking is implicated in many ways to justife actions Simple alcohol is worse that CLASS A drugs, but the government support the drink for TAX scheme Also like to mention, T&A allows for comments against muslims, but when like is said about christians, the comments are removed Propoganda my media to incite aggression[/p][/quote]Does your religion permit the use of anti-psychotics? After all you are a child of Abraham who was clearly schizophrenic and experienced voices in his head telling him to kill his child. His children for his other wife are still experiencing extreme delusions of grandure to this day. Help is available for those that seek it. Don't suffer in silence RollandSmoke
  • Score: 0

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