Councillor angry at 'hole in the heart' of city over Westfield project delays (From Bradford Telegraph and Argus)

Surely it is not outside the powers of the Council to impose conditions like a timescale when work should be completed.

Or is Bradford now totally at the mercy of this company?

Bradford Council - toothless - gutless - hopeless.

The owners of businesses that have lost money, had to move or that have gone bust should be allowed to sue the people/company responsible for this hole in the ground.

What a joke, finally the reality has hit some councillors that the rest of us have known for years but the council were happy to pedal out excuses on their behalf.
An utter shambles.

When dealing with big boys you need bigger brown envelopes.

I think I was more shocked by the fact that not only is there no Plan B - Plan A's looking ropey.

There's no Section 106 agreement so Westfield have little or no obligation to the city other than building the place.

There was a deadline date but that's "been revised" ie missed and extended.

There are no financial penalties for Westfield.

And Westfield's whole argument hinges on getting enough tenants first - when asked if they'd consider building first to inspire confidence then filling later, the answer was a flat out "no".

Yet another pointless meeting. What is the point of having a meeting just to hear that there is nothing to report. This council reminds me of watching jelly fish swimming - they move aimlessly and are spineless!! Who in their right minds starts off a project without a Plan B - haven't the regeneration lunatics heard of contingency plans or don't they exist in their perfect little worlds? The bazaar in Kabul has more shops than Bradford - and I have seen them!!!

It's "the right horse to back", its blind and got three legs and is going nowhere. But it is the only horse running in the 3:30 at Bradford.

Even though the hole is a big scar on the city centre, the issue extends way beyond that bit of land - impacting on the whole city centre and indeed much of the district.

What an embarrassing, positively shameful Council that has allowed this situation to arise. When you agree to have a large tract of your City Centre to be demolished and fenced off, surely you should have legally-binding agreements, timescales, clauses and penalties in place. I cannot think of a bigger error of judgement a Council could make and if those concerned are still in office, they ought to resign immediately as acceptance of their rank incompetence.

This Council has for years had no one with the expertise to look at contracts spot the pitfalls and impose fines for non or late delivery. The Council's Senior Officers have to shoulder most of the blame but so do the Councillors themselves for their own intransigence. The Council has over the years wasted millions of pounds of ratepayers money on signing bad contracts and its no good blaming the present Government when the purse strings have been drawn tight

Bradford Council could NOT organise a booze up in a brewery with free beer.

In short, no further forward and Wesfield declining to be interviewed say's it all.

The Council should now be well on with a plan B instead of sitting back waiting for Westfield not to happen like they have done for the last 10+ years!

What makes me laugh is that at yesterdays meeting, Westfield had the audacity to say that this project is closer now than it has ever been.
How can this be, when under the original scheme it was almost 50% pre-let, yet under the new scheme it is only 3% pre-let, because it only has 3 signed tenants!

In another 6 months, you can almost guarantee that there will not be a start date!

Barra Mac Ruairi and Tony Reeves only had a plan A for the Odeon and look what happened to that. Pair of idiots.

Walruss wrote:
Surely it is not outside the powers of the Council to impose conditions like a timescale when work should be completed.

Or is Bradford now totally at the mercy of this company?

Bradford Council - toothless - gutless - hopeless.

you forgot to add "useless"

Plan A is the right horse to back? it is the only horse in the race - whoever agreed this contract on the sale of the land have left the city high and dry.
It IS at the mercy of Westfield - they can build in the year 2100 if they please or never at all.
They were laughing at the ineptitude of the idiot who was in charge of this almighty gaff.

Clowny wrote:
Barra Mac Ruairi and Tony Reeves only had a plan A for the Odeon and look what happened to that. Pair of idiots.

£250k a year on these two chuckle brothers who have no back up plan or any idea of how to even run a bath.

Bradford Council did not sell the land to Westfield.

In 1998 the "Forster Square Development Partnership" was established between Magellan Properties, Caddick Developments and Bradford Council.

In Dec 2004 the partnership sold the land/project to Stannifer, who fell into financial difficulty and the land/project bought out by Westfield.

Ultimately this project has run for 15 years, and not a single brick laid!

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:

Clowny wrote: Barra Mac Ruairi and Tony Reeves only had a plan A for the Odeon and look what happened to that. Pair of idiots.

£250k a year on these two chuckle brothers who have no back up plan or any idea of how to even run a bath.

These two have a legacy of failure. Westfield
Odeon
Bazaars

Can any one say what these two have done since being employed by Bradford Council. More so Barra?

I see in other news visitors to the Media museum have fallen through the floor, in addition to the decline in nightlife, holes here and there, deralict buildings standing there for over a decade, agressive parking attendants, an influx of pound and charity shops, illegal markets, councillors building extentions without planning permission then retrospectively giving themselves it, and now the latest on Westfield with councillors finally realising what the rest of us have known for years and year, the true scale of mismanagement is here for all to see.

What have the people of Bradford done to deserve such shoddy leadership, the City is not a patch on itself from as recent as 15 years ago.

" Mr Mac Ruairi denied being flippant, but explained that he and his department were committed to working with Westfield, BECAUSE THEY PAY THE BEST BACKAHNDERS AND WE'RE NOT BOTHERED IF THERE IS A SUCCESSFUL OUTCOME COS WE'LL BE LONG GONE BY THEN. YOU JUST HAVE TO PUT UP WITH IT SUCKERS.

And Council chief executive Tony Reeves said: “We don’t have a Plan B, because this is the right horse to back, IT IS THE GIFT THAT KEEPS ON GIVING, WELL AT LEAST TO ME AND MAC RUARI, WE REALLY AREN'T BOTHERED BY THE REST OF YOU PLEBS– Westfield is the biggest shopping centre developer in the world and in all my discussions with them they have given me bigger and bigger brown envelopes with more and more hush money than I've ever had when divying out other projects to crooks.

"Mr Mac Ruairi denied being flippant, but explained that he and his department were committed to working with Westfield for a successful result and did not want to send out any wrong signals."

Does this tw*t live on this planet, his none action speaks volumes about his commitment to this fiasco and the only successfull result for him is getting paid to do sod all

Can someone tell me who he answers to as I want to send an email to them not that anything will be done

WE DO NOT NEED A NEW SHOPPING MALL. THERE ARE MORE THAN ENOUGH SHOPS AS IT IS. BUILD A NEW LIBRARY.

Prisoner Cell Block A wrote:
" Mr Mac Ruairi denied being flippant, but explained that he and his department were committed to working with Westfield, BECAUSE THEY PAY THE BEST BACKAHNDERS AND WE'RE NOT BOTHERED IF THERE IS A SUCCESSFUL OUTCOME COS WE'LL BE LONG GONE BY THEN. YOU JUST HAVE TO PUT UP WITH IT SUCKERS. And Council chief executive Tony Reeves said: “We don’t have a Plan B, because this is the right horse to back, IT IS THE GIFT THAT KEEPS ON GIVING, WELL AT LEAST TO ME AND MAC RUARI, WE REALLY AREN'T BOTHERED BY THE REST OF YOU PLEBS– Westfield is the biggest shopping centre developer in the world and in all my discussions with them they have given me bigger and bigger brown envelopes with more and more hush money than I've ever had when divying out other projects to crooks.

As well as probably being libellous I think that's wrong anyway. Why would Westfield pay bribes for doing nothing?

The problem Westfield/Bradford has is that the city is so run down that no business will look at investing here. Westfield can't sell enough leases=Bradford gets no shopping centre.

It isn't in Westfields best interests to have a site where they have invested money empty. The days of cheap lending are gone, in Bradford anyway, and developers will only invest where they can see a return, and lets face it, that won't be Bradford.

Well what a surprise, a meeting with the developers and nothing develops. My kids don't know what that area used to look like, my memory of it now is getting a little fuzzy.

It would be easier if Westfield came round, held up hands and said "actually we are not going to bother with a shopping centre in Bradford, heres a new NCP".

Anything has to better than the gaping hole.

mr-mixalot wrote:
"Mr Mac Ruairi denied being flippant, but explained that he and his department were committed to working with Westfield for a successful result and did not want to send out any wrong signals." Does this tw*t live on this planet, his none action speaks volumes about his commitment to this fiasco and the only successfull result for him is getting paid to do sod all Can someone tell me who he answers to as I want to send an email to them not that anything will be done

He answer to Tony Reeves, who also is partly responsible for this shambles so don't expect anything to be done there.

No one voted these two into their jobs and it seems no one can or has the ball to get rid of them either. So they suck out their massive salaries for doing nothing whilst frontline services are cut back more and more.

Tony Reeves refused to take a pay cut (because it must be hard to live on £175k a year) in the same week he sent out letter about people's jobs been at risk, this is the kind of people we are dealing with.

I liken this to that classic scene for Oliver but with a 21st century twist,

The council is over a barrel, Westfield have a large marrow (you know what I mean) and the phrase "Please Sir, can I have some more" is repeated over and over again by Mr Mac Ruairi

While it is in everyone's interest that some conclusion is reached, I don't see a completed Westfield being the panacea that some think.

mr-mixalot wrote:
I liken this to that classic scene for Oliver but with a 21st century twist, The council is over a barrel, Westfield have a large marrow (you know what I mean) and the phrase "Please Sir, can I have some more" is repeated over and over again by Mr Mac Ruairi

Mr Mac Ruairi probably couldn't give a toss to be honest. He's getting £150k per year and he has a very successful shopping center on his doorstep in Sheffield.

What incentive does he actually have to sort this out?

Albion. wrote:
While it is in everyone's interest that some conclusion is reached, I don't see a completed Westfield being the panacea that some think.

It will bring 2,500 jobs, what more reason do you want?!

A Casual Observer wrote:
WE DO NOT NEED A NEW SHOPPING MALL. THERE ARE MORE THAN ENOUGH SHOPS AS IT IS. BUILD A NEW LIBRARY.

Seems you have yet to wake up to the fact that Library's are a thing of the past, hence why many are being closed down - Enter the electronic era my boy!

Avro wrote:

Albion. wrote:
While it is in everyone's interest that some conclusion is reached, I don't see a completed Westfield being the panacea that some think.

It will bring 2,500 jobs, what more reason do you want?!

Most of those will be from businesses that are transferring to it and closing their existing premises.
A lot of shoppers would likely still prefer to go elsewhere.

Albion. wrote:

Avro wrote:

Albion. wrote: While it is in everyone's interest that some conclusion is reached, I don't see a completed Westfield being the panacea that some think.

It will bring 2,500 jobs, what more reason do you want?!

Most of those will be from businesses that are transferring to it and closing their existing premises. A lot of shoppers would likely still prefer to go elsewhere.

At least we'll get a decent department store in Debenhams and a decent sized M&S.

If any body thinks these comments have any impact on any body, should forget about it and should not waste their time.

BD16 wrote:

Prisoner Cell Block A wrote:
" Mr Mac Ruairi denied being flippant, but explained that he and his department were committed to working with Westfield, BECAUSE THEY PAY THE BEST BACKAHNDERS AND WE'RE NOT BOTHERED IF THERE IS A SUCCESSFUL OUTCOME COS WE'LL BE LONG GONE BY THEN. YOU JUST HAVE TO PUT UP WITH IT SUCKERS. And Council chief executive Tony Reeves said: “We don’t have a Plan B, because this is the right horse to back, IT IS THE GIFT THAT KEEPS ON GIVING, WELL AT LEAST TO ME AND MAC RUARI, WE REALLY AREN'T BOTHERED BY THE REST OF YOU PLEBS– Westfield is the biggest shopping centre developer in the world and in all my discussions with them they have given me bigger and bigger brown envelopes with more and more hush money than I've ever had when divying out other projects to crooks.

As well as probably being libellous I think that's wrong anyway. Why would Westfield pay bribes for doing nothing?

The problem Westfield/Bradford has is that the city is so run down that no business will look at investing here. Westfield can't sell enough leases=Bradford gets no shopping centre.

It isn't in Westfields best interests to have a site where they have invested money empty. The days of cheap lending are gone, in Bradford anyway, and developers will only invest where they can see a return, and lets face it, that won't be Bradford.

The decline has increased 10 fold since the hole arrived, who dug the hole? This is a conjoined screw up of the highest order and both Bradford Council and Westfield are jointly culpable.

It was satirical and a 'bastardisation' of the original text, not libellous in any sense.

They can try have a go though but being a poor run down resident of a poor run down city what chance do you think they will get of a successful monetary prosecution.

Back in your box line towing monkey.

BD16 wrote:

Albion. wrote:

Avro wrote:

Albion. wrote: While it is in everyone's interest that some conclusion is reached, I don't see a completed Westfield being the panacea that some think.

It will bring 2,500 jobs, what more reason do you want?!

Most of those will be from businesses that are transferring to it and closing their existing premises. A lot of shoppers would likely still prefer to go elsewhere.

At least we'll get a decent department store in Debenhams and a decent sized M&S.

True, but look what happened to Bradford's previous "decent department stores" and the current M&S has three floors but they were underused.
Personally I prefer shopping in other towns and cities and I don't see that changing. Good luck to the development, but I suspect it will be a bit of an oasis in the desert.

Z.Raja wrote:
If any body thinks these comments have any impact on any body, should forget about it and should not waste their time.

It's just a game.

As an incomer to Bradford in the 60s I can only speak as I found the city to be then & now.
In the 60s through to the early 70s the city flourished with diverse industries, wool, manufacturing, engineering, and all the service industries that fed off these businesses, also a well trained and educated work force supplied these industries with the personnel to man them. These industries declined as the wool industry faded and died and a short sighted council took its eye of the ball thinking that something would turn up to replace them, add into the bargain the vandalism of the redevelopment of the60s & 70 instead of looking to develop our existing buildings they chose to demolish & build the concrete monstrocities recently demolished to make way for Westfield, Bradford now has one of the lowest paid work forces in britain, one of the highest unemployment figures is it any wonder that businesses have deserted Bradford in recent years and are reluctant to invest in a shopping centre where they see no hope of recovering that investment.

scottie dog wrote:
As an incomer to Bradford in the 60s I can only speak as I found the city to be then & now.
In the 60s through to the early 70s the city flourished with diverse industries, wool, manufacturing, engineering, and all the service industries that fed off these businesses, also a well trained and educated work force supplied these industries with the personnel to man them. These industries declined as the wool industry faded and died and a short sighted council took its eye of the ball thinking that something would turn up to replace them, add into the bargain the vandalism of the redevelopment of the60s & 70 instead of looking to develop our existing buildings they chose to demolish & build the concrete monstrocities recently demolished to make way for Westfield, Bradford now has one of the lowest paid work forces in britain, one of the highest unemployment figures is it any wonder that businesses have deserted Bradford in recent years and are reluctant to invest in a shopping centre where they see no hope of recovering that investment.

"Bradford now has one of the lowest paid work forces in britain, one of the highest unemployment figures is it any wonder that businesses have deserted Bradford in recent years and are reluctant to invest in a shopping centre where they see no hope of recovering that investment."

Yep, your not far wrong and with more government cut backs coming in the next year and new shopping centres springing up in Leeds I can only see things getting worse. So I was surprised to see a new real ale cafe-bar open on North Parade the other week and very nice it is. One thing I think Bradford has going for it is its city centre pubs which are very good, much better than Leeds. Of course if you don't like pubs then you've had it.

I think we are going to have to drop the idea that Bradford can regain its former glories and spending £300 million of another cathedral to consumerism is probably a waste of money. Leeds and Manchester are the places for shopping now. They do things bigger and far grander than we ever could. Fill the Hole in and use the land for a new transport interchange. Shut Forster Square and Exchange stations and provide fast electric trains to Leeds and Manchester and LBA. I think the government are about the only ones who could put the right sort of pressure on Westfield and if they said they want the land for an infrastructure project Westfield would be only too happy to hand it over.

Prisoner Cell Block A wrote:

BD16 wrote:

Prisoner Cell Block A wrote: " Mr Mac Ruairi denied being flippant, but explained that he and his department were committed to working with Westfield, BECAUSE THEY PAY THE BEST BACKAHNDERS AND WE'RE NOT BOTHERED IF THERE IS A SUCCESSFUL OUTCOME COS WE'LL BE LONG GONE BY THEN. YOU JUST HAVE TO PUT UP WITH IT SUCKERS. And Council chief executive Tony Reeves said: “We don’t have a Plan B, because this is the right horse to back, IT IS THE GIFT THAT KEEPS ON GIVING, WELL AT LEAST TO ME AND MAC RUARI, WE REALLY AREN'T BOTHERED BY THE REST OF YOU PLEBS– Westfield is the biggest shopping centre developer in the world and in all my discussions with them they have given me bigger and bigger brown envelopes with more and more hush money than I've ever had when divying out other projects to crooks.

As well as probably being libellous I think that's wrong anyway. Why would Westfield pay bribes for doing nothing? The problem Westfield/Bradford has is that the city is so run down that no business will look at investing here. Westfield can't sell enough leases=Bradford gets no shopping centre. It isn't in Westfields best interests to have a site where they have invested money empty. The days of cheap lending are gone, in Bradford anyway, and developers will only invest where they can see a return, and lets face it, that won't be Bradford.

The decline has increased 10 fold since the hole arrived, who dug the hole? This is a conjoined screw up of the highest order and both Bradford Council and Westfield are jointly culpable. It was satirical and a 'bastardisation' of the original text, not libellous in any sense. They can try have a go though but being a poor run down resident of a poor run down city what chance do you think they will get of a successful monetary prosecution. Back in your box line towing monkey.

I ain't no "line towing monkey" but I can see that trotting out the same old line that the council are useless and that Westfield are to blame is going to achieve nothing.

The hole was dug in a different financial era and the rules that were in force then aren't anymore. I'm not 100% certain but didn't Westfield step in because another company couldn't make it pay? Why was that? Why can other cities get investment but not Bradford?

Bradford needs to work out why businesses won't invest here and put that right before it will move forward. If businesses can see they will make a profit in Bradford they will come.

FYI, Westfield should have been up and running by 2008 the start of the recession. It wasn't even started by 2008, so lets not go down the line of blaming the recession.

since this started, i have worked on 2 westfield sites ,the biggest being stratford , and money was no object, and they made massive profits , so why is bradford still on the back burner ?????

BD16 wrote:

Prisoner Cell Block A wrote:

BD16 wrote:

Prisoner Cell Block A wrote: " Mr Mac Ruairi denied being flippant, but explained that he and his department were committed to working with Westfield, BECAUSE THEY PAY THE BEST BACKAHNDERS AND WE'RE NOT BOTHERED IF THERE IS A SUCCESSFUL OUTCOME COS WE'LL BE LONG GONE BY THEN. YOU JUST HAVE TO PUT UP WITH IT SUCKERS. And Council chief executive Tony Reeves said: “We don’t have a Plan B, because this is the right horse to back, IT IS THE GIFT THAT KEEPS ON GIVING, WELL AT LEAST TO ME AND MAC RUARI, WE REALLY AREN'T BOTHERED BY THE REST OF YOU PLEBS– Westfield is the biggest shopping centre developer in the world and in all my discussions with them they have given me bigger and bigger brown envelopes with more and more hush money than I've ever had when divying out other projects to crooks.

As well as probably being libellous I think that's wrong anyway. Why would Westfield pay bribes for doing nothing? The problem Westfield/Bradford has is that the city is so run down that no business will look at investing here. Westfield can't sell enough leases=Bradford gets no shopping centre. It isn't in Westfields best interests to have a site where they have invested money empty. The days of cheap lending are gone, in Bradford anyway, and developers will only invest where they can see a return, and lets face it, that won't be Bradford.

The decline has increased 10 fold since the hole arrived, who dug the hole? This is a conjoined screw up of the highest order and both Bradford Council and Westfield are jointly culpable. It was satirical and a 'bastardisation' of the original text, not libellous in any sense. They can try have a go though but being a poor run down resident of a poor run down city what chance do you think they will get of a successful monetary prosecution. Back in your box line towing monkey.

I ain't no "line towing monkey" but I can see that trotting out the same old line that the council are useless and that Westfield are to blame is going to achieve nothing. The hole was dug in a different financial era and the rules that were in force then aren't anymore. I'm not 100% certain but didn't Westfield step in because another company couldn't make it pay? Why was that? Why can other cities get investment but not Bradford? Bradford needs to work out why businesses won't invest here and put that right before it will move forward. If businesses can see they will make a profit in Bradford they will come.

Business wont invest here for many reasons

1) Proximity to Leeds and its far superior ecomony

2) The unskilled workforce

3) The out of proportion business rates

4) Financial sector have no interest as any high calibre staff wouldnt actually want to live in this city

5) Poor transport links on comparison

6) Crimes levels

Need i go on

BD16 wrote:

Prisoner Cell Block A wrote:

BD16 wrote:

Prisoner Cell Block A wrote: " Mr Mac Ruairi denied being flippant, but explained that he and his department were committed to working with Westfield, BECAUSE THEY PAY THE BEST BACKAHNDERS AND WE'RE NOT BOTHERED IF THERE IS A SUCCESSFUL OUTCOME COS WE'LL BE LONG GONE BY THEN. YOU JUST HAVE TO PUT UP WITH IT SUCKERS. And Council chief executive Tony Reeves said: “We don’t have a Plan B, because this is the right horse to back, IT IS THE GIFT THAT KEEPS ON GIVING, WELL AT LEAST TO ME AND MAC RUARI, WE REALLY AREN'T BOTHERED BY THE REST OF YOU PLEBS– Westfield is the biggest shopping centre developer in the world and in all my discussions with them they have given me bigger and bigger brown envelopes with more and more hush money than I've ever had when divying out other projects to crooks.

As well as probably being libellous I think that's wrong anyway. Why would Westfield pay bribes for doing nothing? The problem Westfield/Bradford has is that the city is so run down that no business will look at investing here. Westfield can't sell enough leases=Bradford gets no shopping centre. It isn't in Westfields best interests to have a site where they have invested money empty. The days of cheap lending are gone, in Bradford anyway, and developers will only invest where they can see a return, and lets face it, that won't be Bradford.

The decline has increased 10 fold since the hole arrived, who dug the hole? This is a conjoined screw up of the highest order and both Bradford Council and Westfield are jointly culpable. It was satirical and a 'bastardisation' of the original text, not libellous in any sense. They can try have a go though but being a poor run down resident of a poor run down city what chance do you think they will get of a successful monetary prosecution. Back in your box line towing monkey.

I ain't no "line towing monkey" but I can see that trotting out the same old line that the council are useless and that Westfield are to blame is going to achieve nothing.

The hole was dug in a different financial era and the rules that were in force then aren't anymore. I'm not 100% certain but didn't Westfield step in because another company couldn't make it pay? Why was that? Why can other cities get investment but not Bradford?

Bradford needs to work out why businesses won't invest here and put that right before it will move forward. If businesses can see they will make a profit in Bradford they will come.

Council ineptitude stretching back to the mid 70s and some would say even further back. When Leeds made the decision on their Victorian arcades and markets they decided to invest in them and turn them into hives of business and attracted more business in return.
Bradford had the same choices and chances and our council, there were criminal prosecutions due to corruption and the under hand payments back then, but our illustrious city fathers chose to ignore the route Leeds took and demolished buildings which had beauty and sustainability, replaced them with concrete monstrosities and have since seen these fall into disrepair and in the majority of cases, demolished. A 40 year lifespan due to ineptitude and shortsightedness, nothing has changed.

martsfarts wrote:
since this started, i have worked on 2 westfield sites ,the biggest being stratford , and money was no object, and they made massive profits , so why is bradford still on the back burner ?????

They can't get sufficient tenants.

Albion. wrote:

martsfarts wrote: since this started, i have worked on 2 westfield sites ,the biggest being stratford , and money was no object, and they made massive profits , so why is bradford still on the back burner ?????

They can't get sufficient tenants.

Because retailors know Bradford's residents dont have the disposable income that Leeds residents have for example....and the ones that do would rather go elsewhere anyway.

if Westfield ever does get built it will just turn into a cr4ppy centre like Arndale which offers nothing

As long as I have a hole in my backside there will always be an even bigger hole in the centre of the city!

BD16 wrote:

Prisoner Cell Block A wrote:

BD16 wrote:

Prisoner Cell Block A wrote: " Mr Mac Ruairi denied being flippant, but explained that he and his department were committed to working with Westfield, BECAUSE THEY PAY THE BEST BACKAHNDERS AND WE'RE NOT BOTHERED IF THERE IS A SUCCESSFUL OUTCOME COS WE'LL BE LONG GONE BY THEN. YOU JUST HAVE TO PUT UP WITH IT SUCKERS. And Council chief executive Tony Reeves said: “We don’t have a Plan B, because this is the right horse to back, IT IS THE GIFT THAT KEEPS ON GIVING, WELL AT LEAST TO ME AND MAC RUARI, WE REALLY AREN'T BOTHERED BY THE REST OF YOU PLEBS– Westfield is the biggest shopping centre developer in the world and in all my discussions with them they have given me bigger and bigger brown envelopes with more and more hush money than I've ever had when divying out other projects to crooks.

As well as probably being libellous I think that's wrong anyway. Why would Westfield pay bribes for doing nothing? The problem Westfield/Bradford has is that the city is so run down that no business will look at investing here. Westfield can't sell enough leases=Bradford gets no shopping centre. It isn't in Westfields best interests to have a site where they have invested money empty. The days of cheap lending are gone, in Bradford anyway, and developers will only invest where they can see a return, and lets face it, that won't be Bradford.

The decline has increased 10 fold since the hole arrived, who dug the hole? This is a conjoined screw up of the highest order and both Bradford Council and Westfield are jointly culpable. It was satirical and a 'bastardisation' of the original text, not libellous in any sense. They can try have a go though but being a poor run down resident of a poor run down city what chance do you think they will get of a successful monetary prosecution. Back in your box line towing monkey.

I ain't no "line towing monkey" but I can see that trotting out the same old line that the council are useless and that Westfield are to blame is going to achieve nothing.

The hole was dug in a different financial era and the rules that were in force then aren't anymore. I'm not 100% certain but didn't Westfield step in because another company couldn't make it pay? Why was that? Why can other cities get investment but not Bradford?

Bradford needs to work out why businesses won't invest here and put that right before it will move forward. If businesses can see they will make a profit in Bradford they will come.

Apologies for the unnecessary last line.

Walruss wrote:
Surely it is not outside the powers of the Council to impose conditions like a timescale when work should be completed.

Or is Bradford now totally at the mercy of this company?

Bradford Council - toothless - gutless - hopeless.

If the Council were a public company the administrators would have been in years ago. And still the "no answers to questions" seem acceptable but only to the people with their fat wages in City Hall. I would suggest that the Councillors have a trip around Leeds some Saturday and see just how very, very busy it is. This is due to the constant expansion of their city centre whereas Bradford shops are booming of the outskirts of the city for certain sections but not for the natives.

How long is it now since Councillor Grenn bumbled and spluttered himself into embarrassment when quizzed about the potential start date for Westfield on Look North?

I'm sorry, it has to be said. The problem is nothing to do with the economy or Bradford's proximity to Leeds. It the demographic makeup of Bradford itself.
A huge retailer looking to open a new store looks at many factors including the local population. They predict an average spend based upon the footfall through the doors. A huge proportion Bradford's population simply don't spend money in the "traditional" department stores. They instead buy saris and other "traditional" attire from stores and "cloth houses" that now ring our city. Some of the larger clothing retailers already have a prescience in the city and would be reluctant to open another. The smaller stores that set up next to the larger department stores need the footfall from people visiting the larger stores for them to survive.
Huge retailers know that they need a target figure of footfall/spenders to make to store a success and to make it worth them opening. They know that because of the demographic makeup of Bradford itself then a hugely disproportionate number of people will never go through their doors electing to shop at the many "bazaars" and cloth houses that cater for their own cultural needs.
The smaller shops thus will be reluctant to sign up too as they can't guarantee footfall numbers.
The demographic makeup of Bradford is what's stopping the project going ahead. We need to look at this with fresh eyes, this isn't a race issue. The makeup of Bradford is organic and has changed a lot faster than other UK cities. We need to look at our identity and work out who we really are now and move forward from there.

When Westfield put new Planning application in refuse it or get some good conditions in to get them under control of the Council.
GET A PLAN B READY MR REEVES!
Earn your money.

Prisoner Cell Block A wrote:

BD16 wrote:

Prisoner Cell Block A wrote:

BD16 wrote:

Prisoner Cell Block A wrote: " Mr Mac Ruairi denied being flippant, but explained that he and his department were committed to working with Westfield, BECAUSE THEY PAY THE BEST BACKAHNDERS AND WE'RE NOT BOTHERED IF THERE IS A SUCCESSFUL OUTCOME COS WE'LL BE LONG GONE BY THEN. YOU JUST HAVE TO PUT UP WITH IT SUCKERS. And Council chief executive Tony Reeves said: “We don’t have a Plan B, because this is the right horse to back, IT IS THE GIFT THAT KEEPS ON GIVING, WELL AT LEAST TO ME AND MAC RUARI, WE REALLY AREN'T BOTHERED BY THE REST OF YOU PLEBS– Westfield is the biggest shopping centre developer in the world and in all my discussions with them they have given me bigger and bigger brown envelopes with more and more hush money than I've ever had when divying out other projects to crooks.

As well as probably being libellous I think that's wrong anyway. Why would Westfield pay bribes for doing nothing? The problem Westfield/Bradford has is that the city is so run down that no business will look at investing here. Westfield can't sell enough leases=Bradford gets no shopping centre. It isn't in Westfields best interests to have a site where they have invested money empty. The days of cheap lending are gone, in Bradford anyway, and developers will only invest where they can see a return, and lets face it, that won't be Bradford.

The decline has increased 10 fold since the hole arrived, who dug the hole? This is a conjoined screw up of the highest order and both Bradford Council and Westfield are jointly culpable. It was satirical and a 'bastardisation' of the original text, not libellous in any sense. They can try have a go though but being a poor run down resident of a poor run down city what chance do you think they will get of a successful monetary prosecution. Back in your box line towing monkey.

I ain't no "line towing monkey" but I can see that trotting out the same old line that the council are useless and that Westfield are to blame is going to achieve nothing.

The hole was dug in a different financial era and the rules that were in force then aren't anymore. I'm not 100% certain but didn't Westfield step in because another company couldn't make it pay? Why was that? Why can other cities get investment but not Bradford?

Bradford needs to work out why businesses won't invest here and put that right before it will move forward. If businesses can see they will make a profit in Bradford they will come.

Apologies for the unnecessary last line.

Don't worry about it. I read a lot of your posts and think that you speak a lot of sense, on this particular occasion I thought you went a bit far. At least you care about the place.

I have to be honest and say I don't shop in Bradford anymore. I'd love to as it's where I was born and bred but as it is now there's nothing for me.

I'm not old enough to remember places like the Swan Arcade and only just remember Kirkgate market being knocked down. I hear it said that John Poulson had a hand in it all but nothing could ever be proved. Whatever, we are where we are and have to move forward from here. Sadly I still think Bradford is going backwards and that's to be arrested before we can start rebuilding the place.

At least our football team looks like it might have finally turned the corner!!

Some of this stuff is complete crap, businesses wont invest in Bradford, why's that, is it because the workers ask for too much cash, hardly, Bradford has more headquarters of big business than any other city of it's size in the UK, Bradford district has an economy of 7billion third in the whole of Yorkshire and Humberside, just behind Sheffield and Jimmy Savile's home town, deary me, who said visitor numbers had dropped through the floor at the Media Museum, they are actually up by 10,000 this year.

bcfc1903 wrote:
Some of this stuff is complete crap, businesses wont invest in Bradford, why's that, is it because the workers ask for too much cash, hardly, Bradford has more headquarters of big business than any other city of it's size in the UK, Bradford district has an economy of 7billion third in the whole of Yorkshire and Humberside, just behind Sheffield and Jimmy Savile's home town, deary me, who said visitor numbers had dropped through the floor at the Media Museum, they are actually up by 10,000 this year.

After dropping 1/2 million. 10,000 versus 1/2 million, drop in the ocean.

Many UK businesses register their head office offshore to avoid tax, so your claim (which is dubious to begin with) holds no substance when it comes to employment.

With each year this Westfield farce continues, more retail business packs up and leaves.

i understood from friends in the council that wesfield pulled out in 2008 july and the council has been trying to find someone else to take over the project if this is the case why has both westfield and bradford council who could not arrange a monkeys teaparty been having us all on

tezza11 wrote:
i understood from friends in the council that wesfield pulled out in 2008 july and the council has been trying to find someone else to take over the project if this is the case why has both westfield and bradford council who could not arrange a monkeys teaparty been having us all on

Nonsense.

A City can only market itself to serve the people in it. Therefore possible retailers are not coming forward to sign tenancy agreements in sufficient numbers for work to start. Whether it was a brave or foolish decision by the Council to go ahead with this project, it is almost certaimly doomed to fail.As sad as it is, only Bookmakers, poundshops and economy shops will flourish in the City centre.The more mainstream high street retailers are in abundance on Canal road/ forster square retail parks. The city centre will eventually sort itself out, not in the way people see it should, but in the way it will serve the changing culture of the City centre, many more shops marketed for poles, and other Eastern Europeans will surface.

A City can only market itself to serve the people in it. Therefore possible retailers are not coming forward to sign tenancy agreements in sufficient numbers for work to start. Whether it was a brave or foolish decision by the Council to go ahead with this project, it is almost certaimly doomed to fail.As sad as it is, only Bookmakers, poundshops and economy shops will flourish in the City centre.The more mainstream high street retailers are in abundance on Canal road/ forster square retail parks. The city centre will eventually sort itself out, not in the way people see it should, but in the way it will serve the changing culture of the City centre, many more shops marketed for poles, and other Eastern Europeans will surface.

Clowny wrote:

bcfc1903 wrote:
Some of this stuff is complete crap, businesses wont invest in Bradford, why's that, is it because the workers ask for too much cash, hardly, Bradford has more headquarters of big business than any other city of it's size in the UK, Bradford district has an economy of 7billion third in the whole of Yorkshire and Humberside, just behind Sheffield and Jimmy Savile's home town, deary me, who said visitor numbers had dropped through the floor at the Media Museum, they are actually up by 10,000 this year.

After dropping 1/2 million. 10,000 versus 1/2 million, drop in the ocean.

Many UK businesses register their head office offshore to avoid tax, so your claim (which is dubious to begin with) holds no substance when it comes to employment.

With each year this Westfield farce continues, more retail business packs up and leaves.

It holds more water than most of the drivel typed on this thread. Bradford has plenty of headquarters of big businesses which employ thousands of Bradfordians. The media museums footfall is up by 10,000 this year, that isn't a drop in the ocean for one years footfall. Bradford being the first UNESCO City of Film has to have had an effect on this figure as has the City Park. Surely a city that has an economy worth 7billion must be doing something right, the third biggest in all of Yorkshire and Humberside. In regards to retail, Bradford actually moved up the retail table when last it was compiled, but of course you don't have to be a rocket scientist to know Bradford would shoot up the same retail table far quicker if we had Westfield built.

johnny yen wrote:
A City can only market itself to serve the people in it. Therefore possible retailers are not coming forward to sign tenancy agreements in sufficient numbers for work to start. Whether it was a brave or foolish decision by the Council to go ahead with this project, it is almost certaimly doomed to fail.As sad as it is, only Bookmakers, poundshops and economy shops will flourish in the City centre.The more mainstream high street retailers are in abundance on Canal road/ forster square retail parks. The city centre will eventually sort itself out, not in the way people see it should, but in the way it will serve the changing culture of the City centre, many more shops marketed for poles, and other Eastern Europeans will surface.

Bradford has had a Polish immigrants and many more from that neck of the woods since the second world war finished, so all of a sudden we'll get shop serving these folk, yes you are right, Next, Curry's, JD sports....Morrisons.
...

Albion. wrote:

tezza11 wrote:
i understood from friends in the council that wesfield pulled out in 2008 july and the council has been trying to find someone else to take over the project if this is the case why has both westfield and bradford council who could not arrange a monkeys teaparty been having us all on

Nonsense.

To be right fair Albion, the comment sounds more than credible.

What councils that Leeds City lol

bcfc1903 wrote:

Clowny wrote:

bcfc1903 wrote:
Some of this stuff is complete crap, businesses wont invest in Bradford, why's that, is it because the workers ask for too much cash, hardly, Bradford has more headquarters of big business than any other city of it's size in the UK, Bradford district has an economy of 7billion third in the whole of Yorkshire and Humberside, just behind Sheffield and Jimmy Savile's home town, deary me, who said visitor numbers had dropped through the floor at the Media Museum, they are actually up by 10,000 this year.

After dropping 1/2 million. 10,000 versus 1/2 million, drop in the ocean.

Many UK businesses register their head office offshore to avoid tax, so your claim (which is dubious to begin with) holds no substance when it comes to employment.

With each year this Westfield farce continues, more retail business packs up and leaves.

It holds more water than most of the drivel typed on this thread. Bradford has plenty of headquarters of big businesses which employ thousands of Bradfordians. The media museums footfall is up by 10,000 this year, that isn't a drop in the ocean for one years footfall. Bradford being the first UNESCO City of Film has to have had an effect on this figure as has the City Park. Surely a city that has an economy worth 7billion must be doing something right, the third biggest in all of Yorkshire and Humberside. In regards to retail, Bradford actually moved up the retail table when last it was compiled, but of course you don't have to be a rocket scientist to know Bradford would shoot up the same retail table far quicker if we had Westfield built.

You're showing your ignorance on footfall. 10,000 is squat for a week never mind a year.

Clowny wrote:

Albion. wrote:

tezza11 wrote:
i understood from friends in the council that wesfield pulled out in 2008 july and the council has been trying to find someone else to take over the project if this is the case why has both westfield and bradford council who could not arrange a monkeys teaparty been having us all on

Nonsense.

To be right fair Albion, the comment sounds more than credible.

More nonsense.

bcfc1903 wrote:

Clowny wrote:

bcfc1903 wrote:
Some of this stuff is complete crap, businesses wont invest in Bradford, why's that, is it because the workers ask for too much cash, hardly, Bradford has more headquarters of big business than any other city of it's size in the UK, Bradford district has an economy of 7billion third in the whole of Yorkshire and Humberside, just behind Sheffield and Jimmy Savile's home town, deary me, who said visitor numbers had dropped through the floor at the Media Museum, they are actually up by 10,000 this year.

After dropping 1/2 million. 10,000 versus 1/2 million, drop in the ocean.

Many UK businesses register their head office offshore to avoid tax, so your claim (which is dubious to begin with) holds no substance when it comes to employment.

With each year this Westfield farce continues, more retail business packs up and leaves.

It holds more water than most of the drivel typed on this thread. Bradford has plenty of headquarters of big businesses which employ thousands of Bradfordians. The media museums footfall is up by 10,000 this year, that isn't a drop in the ocean for one years footfall. Bradford being the first UNESCO City of Film has to have had an effect on this figure as has the City Park. Surely a city that has an economy worth 7billion must be doing something right, the third biggest in all of Yorkshire and Humberside. In regards to retail, Bradford actually moved up the retail table when last it was compiled, but of course you don't have to be a rocket scientist to know Bradford would shoot up the same retail table far quicker if we had Westfield built.

The media museum footfall up by 10000 this year? Have you not read TODAY'S T&A article reporting how they are looking to cut costs by 30% because visitor numbers have HALVED in the past year?

Clowny wrote:

bcfc1903 wrote:

Clowny wrote:

bcfc1903 wrote:
Some of this stuff is complete crap, businesses wont invest in Bradford, why's that, is it because the workers ask for too much cash, hardly, Bradford has more headquarters of big business than any other city of it's size in the UK, Bradford district has an economy of 7billion third in the whole of Yorkshire and Humberside, just behind Sheffield and Jimmy Savile's home town, deary me, who said visitor numbers had dropped through the floor at the Media Museum, they are actually up by 10,000 this year.

After dropping 1/2 million. 10,000 versus 1/2 million, drop in the ocean.

Many UK businesses register their head office offshore to avoid tax, so your claim (which is dubious to begin with) holds no substance when it comes to employment.

With each year this Westfield farce continues, more retail business packs up and leaves.

It holds more water than most of the drivel typed on this thread. Bradford has plenty of headquarters of big businesses which employ thousands of Bradfordians. The media museums footfall is up by 10,000 this year, that isn't a drop in the ocean for one years footfall. Bradford being the first UNESCO City of Film has to have had an effect on this figure as has the City Park. Surely a city that has an economy worth 7billion must be doing something right, the third biggest in all of Yorkshire and Humberside. In regards to retail, Bradford actually moved up the retail table when last it was compiled, but of course you don't have to be a rocket scientist to know Bradford would shoot up the same retail table far quicker if we had Westfield built.

You're showing your ignorance on footfall. 10,000 is squat for a week never mind a year.

It seems you're also showing your ignorance lol, 10,000 is not squat, it shows more folk are using the Media Museum over the last year. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to work out why does it.....City Park...

octyvrs wrote:

bcfc1903 wrote:

Clowny wrote:

bcfc1903 wrote:
Some of this stuff is complete crap, businesses wont invest in Bradford, why's that, is it because the workers ask for too much cash, hardly, Bradford has more headquarters of big business than any other city of it's size in the UK, Bradford district has an economy of 7billion third in the whole of Yorkshire and Humberside, just behind Sheffield and Jimmy Savile's home town, deary me, who said visitor numbers had dropped through the floor at the Media Museum, they are actually up by 10,000 this year.

After dropping 1/2 million. 10,000 versus 1/2 million, drop in the ocean.

Many UK businesses register their head office offshore to avoid tax, so your claim (which is dubious to begin with) holds no substance when it comes to employment.

With each year this Westfield farce continues, more retail business packs up and leaves.

It holds more water than most of the drivel typed on this thread. Bradford has plenty of headquarters of big businesses which employ thousands of Bradfordians. The media museums footfall is up by 10,000 this year, that isn't a drop in the ocean for one years footfall. Bradford being the first UNESCO City of Film has to have had an effect on this figure as has the City Park. Surely a city that has an economy worth 7billion must be doing something right, the third biggest in all of Yorkshire and Humberside. In regards to retail, Bradford actually moved up the retail table when last it was compiled, but of course you don't have to be a rocket scientist to know Bradford would shoot up the same retail table far quicker if we had Westfield built.

The media museum footfall up by 10000 this year? Have you not read TODAY'S T&A article reporting how they are looking to cut costs by 30% because visitor numbers have HALVED in the past year?

You need to read all the detail, footfall in the Media Museum is up by 10,000 this year. Visitor numbers have not halved this year, deary me... head....bang...brick
....wall....

From what I understand Media Museum numbers are down 500,000 over the past ten years, i.e. ten years ago it was 1mill a year, now it's 500,000. However, within the past year there has been a spike of 10,000.

A few comments on the Westfield Regen scrutiny as one of the Councillors there:

Basically there are a lot of confidentiality commitments from both sides and while this is very frustrating it's necessary and completely standard practice.

Basically, if long-stop dates or planned build dates became public knowledge, potential retailers looking to let with Westfield would have knowledge that would give them commercial advantage - i.e. they could say 'We know you need to build by x date, therefore we refuse to pay the rates you are asking for and will only pay x% less'.

Basically it would allow retailers to hold Westfield to ransom, which would threaten the commercial viability of the project, hence the dates, where they exist, have to remain confidential.

This is obviously very frustrating for all of us but sadly it is necessary.

The Council revised the long-stop dates in the development agreement as they would obviously not be met due to the financial crisis. I think this was the right and sensible thing to do.

Someone mentioned other developments - from what we were told, only two have taken place over the past year or more - the Olympic Westfield (for obvious reasons) and the Trinity development in Leeds, which occurred because of a unique situation involving some competition from another developer.

It's enticing to think that Westfield could start building now in the hope of encouraging more lets but I guess sadly that is not how the industry works. I guess after dozens of successful developments across the world they have a business model that works and building in advance of lets is not part of that.

As for the Plan A/B situation - basically it would send a bad signal to potential developers/Westfield
/retailers if we started spending time and money developing alternative plans when we should be focusing our attention on the current plan.

Obviously it's not moved at the pace any of us would like, but if we started developing alternative plans it would send bad signals to Westfield and retailers. As a Council we need to show 100% support for the development to encourage retailers to sign up with Westfield.

Westfield do, however, have a lot invested in the site. The report we looked at said they'd currently spent about £80 million on the site, though Westfield couldn't confirm this exact figure.

However, leaving aside the monetary figure, the reputational damage to Westfield for abandoning a site as a failure would be quite massive. It's not in their interests to not get this site built any less than it's in the Council's interests.

There is also a feeling that basically, if the world's largest shopping centre developer cannot build on this site, then no developer can. That's a point of contention but I think in the current financial situation, with a lack of credit being discussed as a major issue in the non-recovery since 2007, it is a pretty salient one in my opinion.

The reason it wasn't done in 2008 was, as Westfield said, they couldn't get the lets in time before the financial crisis hit. Although they had quite a few signed up they were lacking one final large store to seal the deal.

Sadly the financial winds were already blowing cold and therefore they couldn't get the final store signed up in time before the financial crash occurred and the development mothballed.

The reason it's better now is that they have two anchor stores signed up, with a third large retailer (Next) nearly signed, and a number of other retailers in negotiations.

The bottom line though, which I would like to stress, is that none of us, Councillors, Council Officers or Westfield, will be happy until we see diggers on site and we won't be satisfied until it's built and full of happy shoppers!

As for the scrutiny committee, we'll be getting a progress report on Westfield in six months, so no doubt we'll find out more then, if not before.

I appreciate people are not happy with things how they are, no one is - our officers are having weekly teleconferences with Westfield and our Council Leader has been meeting them frequently to see what can be done to move it along.

However, the proof of the pudding will be in the eating, and until we get diggers on site I appreciate few people will be satisfied with what is (and isn't!) happening.

Andy2010 wrote:

Albion. wrote:

martsfarts wrote: since this started, i have worked on 2 westfield sites ,the biggest being stratford , and money was no object, and they made massive profits , so why is bradford still on the back burner ?????

They can't get sufficient tenants.

Because retailors know Bradford's residents dont have the disposable income that Leeds residents have for example....and the ones that do would rather go elsewhere anyway.

if Westfield ever does get built it will just turn into a cr4ppy centre like Arndale which offers nothing

I have more disposable income than many others on my salary who choose to live in Leeds. Why? Because my housing costs are cheaper. I'd love to spend more money in my city; I hate having to go into Leeds. But if you look at the mass of large scale supermarkets that have sprung up (selling, not just groceries but fashion, bedding, electronics) and all handily placed on the ring road and with plentiful parking - those are the places that are draining the money from the centre. Not Leeds.

I think both comments ring true - there's no doubt that Leeds drains 'spend' out of Bradford - I've met many people who would rather get on a train from Skipton to Leeds to shop than go into Bradford, and sadly the lack of certain retail in Bradford means despite best efforts I end up going into Leeds for something than Bradford.

However, it's also true that the sort of 'out of centre' shopping places, whether all-in-one supermarkets or retail parks, also discourage people from going into Bradford.

That's partly why Westfield is so essential though - it'll be well positioned for public transport and provide a AAA shopping experience with major retailers, particularly with retailers like Debenhams who have no other stores in the district.

I live in East Morton and have yet to hop on a train to Leeds for certain retail, whatever that is lol....it sounds quite odd, i have however hopped on a train to Bradford. Range Rovers can be bought in Bradford as can most other makes of car, i guess if you've got £50,000 to spend for certain retail you could actually get certain retail in Bradford if you looked that is. I swear to god that some of this stuff is written by the Leeds City Council lol.

'Certain retail' as in specific items that I knew I could acquire in Leeds and couldn't be sure that I could get in Bradford.

I'm glad people can get Range Rovers in Bradford though! :)

bcfc1903 wrote:

octyvrs wrote:

bcfc1903 wrote:

Clowny wrote:

bcfc1903 wrote:
Some of this stuff is complete crap, businesses wont invest in Bradford, why's that, is it because the workers ask for too much cash, hardly, Bradford has more headquarters of big business than any other city of it's size in the UK, Bradford district has an economy of 7billion third in the whole of Yorkshire and Humberside, just behind Sheffield and Jimmy Savile's home town, deary me, who said visitor numbers had dropped through the floor at the Media Museum, they are actually up by 10,000 this year.

After dropping 1/2 million. 10,000 versus 1/2 million, drop in the ocean.

Many UK businesses register their head office offshore to avoid tax, so your claim (which is dubious to begin with) holds no substance when it comes to employment.

With each year this Westfield farce continues, more retail business packs up and leaves.

It holds more water than most of the drivel typed on this thread. Bradford has plenty of headquarters of big businesses which employ thousands of Bradfordians. The media museums footfall is up by 10,000 this year, that isn't a drop in the ocean for one years footfall. Bradford being the first UNESCO City of Film has to have had an effect on this figure as has the City Park. Surely a city that has an economy worth 7billion must be doing something right, the third biggest in all of Yorkshire and Humberside. In regards to retail, Bradford actually moved up the retail table when last it was compiled, but of course you don't have to be a rocket scientist to know Bradford would shoot up the same retail table far quicker if we had Westfield built.

The media museum footfall up by 10000 this year? Have you not read TODAY'S T&A article reporting how they are looking to cut costs by 30% because visitor numbers have HALVED in the past year?

You need to read all the detail, footfall in the Media Museum is up by 10,000 this year. Visitor numbers have not halved this year, deary me... head....bang...brick

....wall....

Sorry, I said Halved in the past year. I meant over the past decade. However down is still down.

octyvrs wrote:

bcfc1903 wrote:

octyvrs wrote:

bcfc1903 wrote:

Clowny wrote:

bcfc1903 wrote:
Some of this stuff is complete crap, businesses wont invest in Bradford, why's that, is it because the workers ask for too much cash, hardly, Bradford has more headquarters of big business than any other city of it's size in the UK, Bradford district has an economy of 7billion third in the whole of Yorkshire and Humberside, just behind Sheffield and Jimmy Savile's home town, deary me, who said visitor numbers had dropped through the floor at the Media Museum, they are actually up by 10,000 this year.

After dropping 1/2 million. 10,000 versus 1/2 million, drop in the ocean.

Many UK businesses register their head office offshore to avoid tax, so your claim (which is dubious to begin with) holds no substance when it comes to employment.

With each year this Westfield farce continues, more retail business packs up and leaves.

It holds more water than most of the drivel typed on this thread. Bradford has plenty of headquarters of big businesses which employ thousands of Bradfordians. The media museums footfall is up by 10,000 this year, that isn't a drop in the ocean for one years footfall. Bradford being the first UNESCO City of Film has to have had an effect on this figure as has the City Park. Surely a city that has an economy worth 7billion must be doing something right, the third biggest in all of Yorkshire and Humberside. In regards to retail, Bradford actually moved up the retail table when last it was compiled, but of course you don't have to be a rocket scientist to know Bradford would shoot up the same retail table far quicker if we had Westfield built.

The media museum footfall up by 10000 this year? Have you not read TODAY'S T&A article reporting how they are looking to cut costs by 30% because visitor numbers have HALVED in the past year?

You need to read all the detail, footfall in the Media Museum is up by 10,000 this year. Visitor numbers have not halved this year, deary me... head....bang...brick


....wall....

Sorry, I said Halved in the past year. I meant over the past decade. However down is still down.

Not over the last year it isn't, it's up 10,000.

Alex_Ross-Shaw wrote:
'Certain retail' as in specific items that I knew I could acquire in Leeds and couldn't be sure that I could get in Bradford.

I'm glad people can get Range Rovers in Bradford though! :)

You can indeed get certain retail in Bradford including Range Rovers, Volvo's, Jaguars, Mercedes benz ect.... Rolex anyone lol..Jeff Frankel the excellent Bradford Jewller will sort you out a new Rolex at Sydneys The Jewellers in Rawson Road....certain retail with a certain 10% discount.

**
When shopping in Bradford, if you ever have ;) try actually looking for certain retail, i'm certain you'll find it.... ;)

Yikes, there should have been an e in the first spelling of Jeweller!!!!!

Well Alex I shall be writing to you and all councillors.

The thing simply will not work is an anachronism since when first plaaned and there needs to be a plan B NOW.

Debenhams and Marks cater for the middle class family types.
Go to White Rose and Observe.
Bradfordians are poor and the 50000 that have been added to the population are poorer still.Most economically inactive I cannot see any of them or indeed anyone returning if it ever happened.

The design is bland boring rubbish and is little netter than the 90 business occupied buildings demolished to make way.
There are now so many other empty retail units that building this monstrosity will only add to the other areas woes,the traditional area of Darley Street and the now established train linked Foster retail.

What idiots would spend 380 million to create a hole without tenants?

Or was that done to hold Bradford to ransom that there can be no plan B?

Well there could.

morrisons are bringing Ken out of retirement as they are slipping and he is to have a look.

asda are brilliant at presenting most of the poors needs.

The City from 1998 is much changed and thousands now live there together with an expanded university,more flats planned for the bottom of Manchester road and 50000 newcomers.Many others are here who should not be.

Go beg Ken or Asda to build a store there.

Town Retail is dying and in ten years could be the most expensive mistake with this cities paucity of resources amongst its population as a starter.

All these people need to eat and I dont see the supermarkets waiting for sub tenants before they get on and build.However many there are they seem to just keep putting them up and they are always busy whatever time of day.Indeed Morrisons wanted to expand there 1970 store on Westgate into the Oastler (turned down)a couple of years back.They put it for sale but guess what no takers.Now where have I heard that.before.

So why when the chance of it happening are practically zero and even if it does it will add little do the council not call time and beg Asda or Morrisons to build a flagship 21 century icon.

Those that drive in to park will pay and be knocked off ehat they buy in store.
And it will hopefully give them chance to look at whats left of Bradford.

the problem with my plan is that at the rate business with a 100 year plus presence are closing in Bradford there will be absolutely nothing left.

and please dont poopycock us with this nonsense as to commercial sensitivity.

Do you honestly think the retail experts dont know what Bradford has become?
they can hold the scheme to ransom anyway as they know the place is finished.
The argument does not wash.

And that people put off shoppers as they seek there daily dose of methodine in what was once prime retail.

Or requires 100 plus officers and multi vehicle response as the p[olice send out a protest message to everyone in their response last week to another drug user off his trolly upsetting everything and everyone.

They do read this paper and know what a zoo the place is now.

2500 jobs Avro indeed do you truly believe that nonsense.

the opportunity cost since demolition in 2004 is that probably four times that number have been lost thriugh this ill thought through folly.

This area was NEVER populsr with retailers.

Waring and Gillow could not survive and it will simply close off Little Germany again.With bland boring rubbish that will be pulled down within 40 years.

Do not make this mistake.

It is the biggest certain loser.

At least a supermarket like Asda would guarantee footfall and spend.

Cant see many bradordians having the time or brass to shop in Debs and Marks.

Primark and New Look maybe at the prices they offer.

An anachronism.

The Odsal retail scheme was referred to the pklanning inspectorate 10 years back and Tesco pulled out.
the legislation to prevent out of town developments in order to save city centre retail has failed to work for Bradford.The City Centre has died anyway in spite of the protection.

offer Westfield a carrot (though personally anyone who is making that much money that they can afford to dig a b loody great £80 million hole without tenants may not need a carrot)and see if the land at odsal council owned could be offered as a white rose type development.

It is high time Bradford stuck up for itself.Leeds never aked us if they could build Owlcoates or White Rose.

That is where most of my contempories will now go.

Look at the latest report in here.Bradford the most congested city in Britain on the roads.

If you think I or anyone would want to get gridlocked to visit this nonsense think again.

Low level supermarket and a lake with a bridge as Gateshead got and Glasgow is planning as the gateway to little Germany.

You coul fit all the Bazaars the community clearly wants in Little Germany.

Do not make the same mistake our forefathers made.

Yes the Media Museum (a jewel in the thorny crown)has halved its numbers over 10 years.A tremendous place.

But do Bradfordians remember that until it opened in 1974 or 5 it had been empty ten years and was classed as a white elephant along with centrepoint in london.
And the other 60"s corruption inspired dross across the city where the skin flick cinnecentre sprung some of those retail units NEVER had occupancy from new build to demolition.

There are only so many parts to this crammed and motor unfriendly bowl of a city centre Bradford can inspire the public to trek.

This will not be one of them other than for initial curiosity value if indeed it happens.

An £80 million hole without a tenant.

Pretty stupid people Westfield on this one.

Suppose they made enough out of the Wembley Stadium (£800 million when this paper in 1998 stated it was to cost £150 million)and about 5 years behind time.

Clear off Westfield and give it to the people of Bradford who with nothing to give you you may aswell give up.

The wider area of Calderdale Kirlless Leeds wakefield and Manchester might just with a development as this at the end of the M606.

Move over Barrack and Reeves.

your spent.
We"ve seen enough corrupt bobbing and weaving over the Odeon finally nailed.

Scream louder Bradfordians.

your councillors are listening.

hey too have had enough.

Only the £150000 a year men that persist.
And if Westfield can throw £80 million at a hole in this way I guess it will be brown paper parcels not envelopes that are the sticking point in it not as it should be now from being kivked into touch.

Hopeless,madness stupidity.

It will not work.

Hope I dont have in 15 years have to bring out the best four little words in the world. "I told you so "

This comment will be around then.

As is Dave Greens pathetic offerings on the subject back in 1998.
If he wants the "I started so I"ll finish" nonsense tell him to get a job with Bamber Gasgoine.

Or perhaps more appropriate with that double earring and speech difficulty back on the fairground rides.
He should be well used after 6 months of running the circus to slip back into mainstream employment when the fair comes back to Lister Park.

What do they call a deer with no eyes.

A noeyedeer.

Sadly Bradford that is what we have become.

Thats a lot of paragraphs ^^

50,000 increase in population of the Bradford district who are all poor, i stopped reading after that tosh, deary me, a sweeping statement based on absolutely nothing, Bradford has always thrived with a mixture of wealthy and poor folk living in it....a City and district that has a population of 522,000 will be able to service Westfield if/when it's built, the Kirkgate centre and much more. Footfall is increasing in the Bradford City centre, 10,000 this year just going to the Media Museum. City Park is far more successful than i ever thought it would be. Even though this rag is desperate for the Odeon to be demolished it could and should be refurbished and made into a world class concert and conference hall/centre. There is so much negative tosh printed about Bradford City centre, much i guess emanating from Leeds City council.....;)

Very few of the arguments above hold water. The development started andf stopped prior to the bank crash and prior to the first bite of recession. Westfield moved their operations to the more lucrative Olympic build and left Bradford with an irrepairable hole. That is the long and short of it.

Everything else is BS and whitewash.

Prisoner Cell Block A wrote:
Very few of the arguments above hold water. The development started andf stopped prior to the bank crash and prior to the first bite of recession. Westfield moved their operations to the more lucrative Olympic build and left Bradford with an irrepairable hole. That is the long and short of it.

Everything else is BS and whitewash.

Yes PCBA, if ever a company wanted to damage a city centre, Westfield have done the job with clinical efficiency. Quite how Bradford Council under that complete idiot Hopkins ever got the city centre into this mess is beyond me. Perhaps it was all in the daft fellas master plan to remove Keighley from Bradford district, another hopless piece of thinking. The blues would get my vote but not Hopkins, Respect anyone lol

PCBA - By virtue of mentioning the Olympic site don't you prove the point though?

The Olympic site had no problem signing up lets for obvious reasons. Bradford, like the rest of the country outside of London, is still struggling with the recession and did and does have problems getting the requisite lets.

Northern Rock crashed in the back end of 2007 and it didn't come out of nowhere, so I don't think anyone can conclusively say that there's no way the credit crunch affected the development of the site, personally I think it dovetails quite obviously but we'll have to agree to disagree!

The Olympic site had billions thrown at it and a guaranteed patronage in five years it will be an overgrown white elephant because non of the local councils can afford its upkeep.While certain people pocketed very very large brown paper envelopes.But that would never happen in Bradford because all parties have the public at heart and only want was is best with disregard to personal interests.

Alex_Ross-Shaw wrote:
PCBA - By virtue of mentioning the Olympic site don't you prove the point though? The Olympic site had no problem signing up lets for obvious reasons. Bradford, like the rest of the country outside of London, is still struggling with the recession and did and does have problems getting the requisite lets. Northern Rock crashed in the back end of 2007 and it didn't come out of nowhere, so I don't think anyone can conclusively say that there's no way the credit crunch affected the development of the site, personally I think it dovetails quite obviously but we'll have to agree to disagree!

And a member of the bank of England predicts last week that debt personal,business and bank det will continue to hold back recovery for years and years to come.

Sadly right.

Bradford and bingley advising shareholders all was well at easter in floating a rights issue.
By Autumn they were no more.
And the government are still in trying to mop up.

No Westfield will not happen.

Sad that the 50000 increase in population I state are economically inactive or the majority.
I can only go on what I see.

A former council estate where my mother grew up now crammed full of Kosovans,Chech"s,Eas
t Europeans,ex Soviet countries.

I apologise BCFC 1903 in that some find work as hard working people as pickers and packers at Farmers Boy.

Where have the rest all found work then.I really would like to know when I read Thiomas Cooks closing (400) Morrisons redeploying to India Wages staff and business with a presence of 100 years in Braford closing weekly.

Please educate me as to where they have all found work?Rather than insult.

I helped clear out an old oil tank from the former Traffords on North Parade for a friend.Opened as a chinese supermarket.My friend reliably informs me of the number of illegal occupants upstairs.
The authorities are swamped.

Some years ago Harriet Harman faced with news that box after box of unprocessed asylum applications (600000 rings a bell )were up to the roof waved em all in.

Those just the known.

Bradford had totake its share.

My friends lost their beloved Carlton Hotel near your beloved BCFC in 2001.

Within 12 months all 44 bedrooms they had lovingly created were occupied by asylum seekers.

They lost it as Bradford was going down the pan then.

Your optimism abounds Mr Tosh man.

please give me the stats as to where all these people are working and will shop at Marks and Debenhams.

dream on.

were all poor here now.
Just got back from Leeds and what staggered me was a whole street of offices off East parade were up to let.
5 years ago never in this world.

and Artisan truly thought they could con us that A! office space would be in demand here.
Rewatch that vid BCFC 1903 of that horror man walikng round the city centre a few weeks ago for 10 minutes brandishing what turned to be a fake gun.past the Alahambra.

Or the police charge last week for another single nutter off his head.

please educate me as to how the future will turn BCFC.

Enough business for Arndale ,Foster retail and all the Empty shops in the former prime retail.

Brown Muffs since closure and conversion has never realy worked.

Dillons and Virgin gone.

Of course folk read books on tabs now and music from a tiny I player.

Wish I could share your optimism.

just off on a neighbourhood watch walk on police advice.
The burglaries are starting up again round my 82 year old parents.
police chopper up again.

George Galloway is right.The Devil makes work when there is none.
Wish I could be as optimistic.

Didnt Debenhams pull out of Bradford after Busbys.

a city with little faith from the big multiple retailers then.

sorry Alex you have your work cut out.

Even the police are telling me its become a zoo.

Westfield not happening is much much more than the banking crisis.

the false confidence of the early part of the new milleneum was built on foundations of multiple debt.

Private business and banking debt.

The retailers (and Westfield a main player)never had it so good on extended credit that none of them had a hope in hell of repaying.

We will pay for the rest of our lives.
And my 14 year old daughters life.

Mark my words.

Westfield aint coming cos the West got greedy and ruined things forever.

Foundations of sand created a false economic boom.

Think you need remove your chief exec and regen chief Alex.
No Plan B shows how hopeless they are.

Your not one of them are you BCFC.
Cos your the only optimistic one I read in all this farce.

An £80 million pound hole.

Its Westfield that are stupid not the council.

Bet they"ve had to give the earth in negotiations with Marks And Debs to con them to set up here.A great deal for them in all their other retail parks as long as they bail Westfield out in Bradford.

Bit tougher with the smaller fish.
Not as much slack to play fishing with.

It will all end in Tears if the couincil dont get tough.

The plan B might just work.
Bland boring trash as Westfield in concept wont.

Look again at the video.Inspirational?

Never.
Give me Salts Mill or Listers any day.

More rubbish to replace the 60"s rubbish knocked down.

Shoot me down cowboy.

BCFC 1903 is riding tonight






Too far down?

keep the faith city are winning at last.

Prisoner Cell Block A wrote:

BD16 wrote:

Prisoner Cell Block A wrote:

BD16 wrote:

Prisoner Cell Block A wrote: " Mr Mac Ruairi denied being flippant, but explained that he and his department were committed to working with Westfield, BECAUSE THEY PAY THE BEST BACKAHNDERS AND WE'RE NOT BOTHERED IF THERE IS A SUCCESSFUL OUTCOME COS WE'LL BE LONG GONE BY THEN. YOU JUST HAVE TO PUT UP WITH IT SUCKERS. And Council chief executive Tony Reeves said: “We don’t have a Plan B, because this is the right horse to back, IT IS THE GIFT THAT KEEPS ON GIVING, WELL AT LEAST TO ME AND MAC RUARI, WE REALLY AREN'T BOTHERED BY THE REST OF YOU PLEBS– Westfield is the biggest shopping centre developer in the world and in all my discussions with them they have given me bigger and bigger brown envelopes with more and more hush money than I've ever had when divying out other projects to crooks.

As well as probably being libellous I think that's wrong anyway. Why would Westfield pay bribes for doing nothing? The problem Westfield/Bradford has is that the city is so run down that no business will look at investing here. Westfield can't sell enough leases=Bradford gets no shopping centre. It isn't in Westfields best interests to have a site where they have invested money empty. The days of cheap lending are gone, in Bradford anyway, and developers will only invest where they can see a return, and lets face it, that won't be Bradford.

The decline has increased 10 fold since the hole arrived, who dug the hole? This is a conjoined screw up of the highest order and both Bradford Council and Westfield are jointly culpable. It was satirical and a 'bastardisation' of the original text, not libellous in any sense. They can try have a go though but being a poor run down resident of a poor run down city what chance do you think they will get of a successful monetary prosecution. Back in your box line towing monkey.

I ain't no "line towing monkey" but I can see that trotting out the same old line that the council are useless and that Westfield are to blame is going to achieve nothing. The hole was dug in a different financial era and the rules that were in force then aren't anymore. I'm not 100% certain but didn't Westfield step in because another company couldn't make it pay? Why was that? Why can other cities get investment but not Bradford? Bradford needs to work out why businesses won't invest here and put that right before it will move forward. If businesses can see they will make a profit in Bradford they will come.

Council ineptitude stretching back to the mid 70s and some would say even further back. When Leeds made the decision on their Victorian arcades and markets they decided to invest in them and turn them into hives of business and attracted more business in return. Bradford had the same choices and chances and our council, there were criminal prosecutions due to corruption and the under hand payments back then, but our illustrious city fathers chose to ignore the route Leeds took and demolished buildings which had beauty and sustainability, replaced them with concrete monstrosities and have since seen these fall into disrepair and in the majority of cases, demolished. A 40 year lifespan due to ineptitude and shortsightedness, nothing has changed.

Absolutely agreed TVOR.

We should stay on here and leave the Bulls mafia to implode.

Too many brown paper parcels sound like they were been passed round when this nonsense was dreamt up.

Why close Little Germany off now?

That will still be standing in a couple of hundred years when all the Westfields and 60"s and 70"s dross are long gone.

look at the old Hudders and Bradford BS carbunkle up in only 1970 next to oastler.great lumps falling off the side on providence street.

the national provincial demolished within 30 years of building.Opposite the town hall.

The odeon will still stand.just needs millions as the Alhambra eventualy got.

The Alhambra wax destined for the bulldozers and so was Salts mill until Johnathan came to its rescue.

look how they have regenerated.
get the cultrure and setting right,control the dross that frequents and lives in the city and things may recover.

But even the police may have given up if their resonse of last week was an indicator.they too may have had enough.

decent law abiding shoppers certainly have.

Westfield a pipe dream

Rambo wrote:
How long is it now since Councillor Grenn bumbled and spluttered himself into embarrassment when quizzed about the potential start date for Westfield on Look North?

Last time the fair visited Manningham Park and left him behind when the dodgems packed away and moved on.

Time the Government intervened. Tell Westfield they aren't laying another brick anywhere until Bradford is under way. Get tough on the money-grabbing Ockers!

Get on the phone to "Gorgeous George" he's just the man who can sort this shambles out !! don't you remember him telling us all in March of this year !! he's saved the Odeon, things are looking up for City and the Bulls, the mans a messiah give him a bell.

alfucham ...I don't have to shoot you down, you shot yourself down with that complete diatribe.....

What's wrong with working at Farmers Boy, if the population of Bradford has increased by 50,000 in 10 years even someone with half a braincell should know non will of working age as yet.... Here's a list to lift your depression...

*
Bradford Distict has been given the accolade of being the first UNESCO CITY of FILM.
*
The BRADFORD Media Museum is/was the most visited museum outside London

*
Bradford has a lower crime rate than Leeds.
*
Bradford is the Birth Place of the Bronte Sisters,the house being located on Market Street in Thornton,it's a grade 2 listed building..


*
They wrote their books while living at Haworth Parsonage which is within the Bradford district. Haworth is trying to get UNESCO WORLD HERITAGE SITE RECOGNITION.
*
JB Priestley the novelist.
*
Frederick Delius the composer.

*
Sir William Rothenstein, artist

*
Bradford has the UNESCO WORLD HERITAGE SITE AT SALTAIRE.
*
The world renowned artist David Hockney a Bradfordian has paintings displayed in Salts Mill.
*
Bradford and it's district has 6,000 listed buildings,and Bradford City centre has some beautiful buildings.The Wool Exchange and City Hall being prime examples
*

Just how much culture and superb countryside can one city and it's district have, in Bradford's case it has plenty.
*
The picture painted by some on here is not a true reflection of either the City of Bradford or it's surrounding district.
*
St Georges Hall is the oldest concert hall in the UK AND THE THIRD OLDEST IN THE WHOLE OF EUROPE.

*

Little Germany, home to many beautiful and listed buildings.
City Park........i could go on but i've got a job in Bradford ..;)

BCFC1903 your not wrong about the past, but the T&A article is about one particular part of the City center the Westfield site.
The whole situation is a complete mess, and our Leaders not getting to grip with a solution because they have no plan B.
They also seem incable of coming up with a way forward.

Westfield are useless. It is obvious what we need in Bradford. It is a huge Car Washing plant in the middle of town. I mean we have so many of these small places all over the town that there must be a huge demand for Money Washing, ****, I mean Car Washing in Bradford. Come on Westfield do a favour to the "community" and open a giant Drug Selling, ****, I mean Car Washing complex in Bradford.
We all know why no one is prepared to invest in this town. Just ask the "community".

Joedavid wrote:
BCFC1903 your not wrong about the past, but the T&A article is about one particular part of the City center the Westfield site.
The whole situation is a complete mess, and our Leaders not getting to grip with a solution because they have no plan B.
They also seem incable of coming up with a way forward.

Yeah JD, totally agree about Westfield, Hopkins who is our MP but was council leader when this farce was being planned........ when people say it's a no brainer that there should have been penalty clauses just about sums up Hopkins iq ...the fellas a total liability, i'm a blue but none of our family will vote for him just on the back of this and the idiocy of his idea of breaking up Bradford district....if i actually put what i thought of the guy, i'd be banned from this site.

We have a big hole in Keighley now, Low Street same story nothing happening there either. Now Bfd wasters are looking at Keighley College and thinking about a big hole there!
Its time these muppets were held to acount.

Hopkins is from Keighley, he's the expert when it comes to holes lol he created the daddy of them all, what do they say about revenge, it's best served cold....

bcfc1903 wrote:
alfucham ...I don't have to shoot you down, you shot yourself down with that complete diatribe..... What's wrong with working at Farmers Boy, if the population of Bradford has increased by 50,000 in 10 years even someone with half a braincell should know non will of working age as yet.... Here's a list to lift your depression... * Bradford Distict has been given the accolade of being the first UNESCO CITY of FILM. * The BRADFORD Media Museum is/was the most visited museum outside London * Bradford has a lower crime rate than Leeds. * Bradford is the Birth Place of the Bronte Sisters,the house being located on Market Street in Thornton,it's a grade 2 listed building.. * They wrote their books while living at Haworth Parsonage which is within the Bradford district. Haworth is trying to get UNESCO WORLD HERITAGE SITE RECOGNITION. * JB Priestley the novelist. * Frederick Delius the composer. * Sir William Rothenstein, artist * Bradford has the UNESCO WORLD HERITAGE SITE AT SALTAIRE. * The world renowned artist David Hockney a Bradfordian has paintings displayed in Salts Mill. * Bradford and it's district has 6,000 listed buildings,and Bradford City centre has some beautiful buildings.The Wool Exchange and City Hall being prime examples * Just how much culture and superb countryside can one city and it's district have, in Bradford's case it has plenty. * The picture painted by some on here is not a true reflection of either the City of Bradford or it's surrounding district. * St Georges Hall is the oldest concert hall in the UK AND THE THIRD OLDEST IN THE WHOLE OF EUROPE. * Little Germany, home to many beautiful and listed buildings. City Park........i could go on but i've got a job in Bradford ..;)

Are you so dense that you think the population increase is all new borns.

The majority of the increase is the influx of people from asceeded EEC member states and Asylum seekers.

Read what I say.

I agree Little Germany is magnificent.

So why would Bradford now seek to close it off again with a scheme that will not work.

Dream on in the past.

Shall we put a statue up to Norman Corner?

TheLionsof1967 wrote:
Westfield are useless. It is obvious what we need in Bradford. It is a huge Car Washing plant in the middle of town. I mean we have so many of these small places all over the town that there must be a huge demand for Money Washing, ****, I mean Car Washing in Bradford. Come on Westfield do a favour to the "community" and open a giant Drug Selling, ****, I mean Car Washing complex in Bradford. We all know why no one is prepared to invest in this town. Just ask the "community".

All employing illegal labour many of whom should not even be in the country but hopped on the back of an HGV at calais.

And those that have a right to be here using them as fronts for the illicit gains you refer to.

Well said.

The heroin just keeps flowing in no guesses where from.

Keep reading the front page of this rag and see the tip of the iceberg as to those caught.

Made in Bradford.

Gun running
Trafficking
Stage managed accidents
Heroin dealer multi millionaires
East European alcohol abuse
Child neglect
street gun battles in former safe communities
the afflicted off their trolley wandering round the city centre making it a no go area
A luvly splash pool
Relics of history when the place was great.

alfucham wrote:

TheLionsof1967 wrote:
Westfield are useless. It is obvious what we need in Bradford. It is a huge Car Washing plant in the middle of town. I mean we have so many of these small places all over the town that there must be a huge demand for Money Washing, ****, I mean Car Washing in Bradford. Come on Westfield do a favour to the "community" and open a giant Drug Selling, ****, I mean Car Washing complex in Bradford. We all know why no one is prepared to invest in this town. Just ask the "community".

All employing illegal labour many of whom should not even be in the country but hopped on the back of an HGV at calais.

And those that have a right to be here using them as fronts for the illicit gains you refer to.

Well said.

The heroin just keeps flowing in no guesses where from.

Keep reading the front page of this rag and see the tip of the iceberg as to those caught.

Made in Bradford.

Gun running
Trafficking
Stage managed accidents
Heroin dealer multi millionaires
East European alcohol abuse
Child neglect
street gun battles in former safe communities
the afflicted off their trolley wandering round the city centre making it a no go area
A luvly splash pool
Relics of history when the place was great.

"Aaaaaaand Always Look on the Bright Side of Life........"
Ain't you 2 got any houses to haunt? ;-)

alfucham wrote:

TheLionsof1967 wrote:
Westfield are useless. It is obvious what we need in Bradford. It is a huge Car Washing plant in the middle of town. I mean we have so many of these small places all over the town that there must be a huge demand for Money Washing, ****, I mean Car Washing in Bradford. Come on Westfield do a favour to the "community" and open a giant Drug Selling, ****, I mean Car Washing complex in Bradford. We all know why no one is prepared to invest in this town. Just ask the "community".

All employing illegal labour many of whom should not even be in the country but hopped on the back of an HGV at calais.

And those that have a right to be here using them as fronts for the illicit gains you refer to.

Well said.

The heroin just keeps flowing in no guesses where from.

Keep reading the front page of this rag and see the tip of the iceberg as to those caught.

Made in Bradford.

Gun running
Trafficking
Stage managed accidents
Heroin dealer multi millionaires
East European alcohol abuse
Child neglect
street gun battles in former safe communities
the afflicted off their trolley wandering round the city centre making it a no go area
A luvly splash pool
Relics of history when the place was great.

Well said,but you know why they all come to bratfud ,as bcfc1903 would tell you its to see the city park.... lol

I went to see Jimmy Carr at St Georges a couple of years ago and he hit the nail on the head about the shopping centre and I quote

"You can put lipstick on a pig but its still a pig "

About sums up the town centre perfectly

alfucham wrote:

bcfc1903 wrote:
alfucham ...I don't have to shoot you down, you shot yourself down with that complete diatribe..... What's wrong with working at Farmers Boy, if the population of Bradford has increased by 50,000 in 10 years even someone with half a braincell should know non will of working age as yet.... Here's a list to lift your depression... * Bradford Distict has been given the accolade of being the first UNESCO CITY of FILM. * The BRADFORD Media Museum is/was the most visited museum outside London * Bradford has a lower crime rate than Leeds. * Bradford is the Birth Place of the Bronte Sisters,the house being located on Market Street in Thornton,it's a grade 2 listed building.. * They wrote their books while living at Haworth Parsonage which is within the Bradford district. Haworth is trying to get UNESCO WORLD HERITAGE SITE RECOGNITION. * JB Priestley the novelist. * Frederick Delius the composer. * Sir William Rothenstein, artist * Bradford has the UNESCO WORLD HERITAGE SITE AT SALTAIRE. * The world renowned artist David Hockney a Bradfordian has paintings displayed in Salts Mill. * Bradford and it's district has 6,000 listed buildings,and Bradford City centre has some beautiful buildings.The Wool Exchange and City Hall being prime examples * Just how much culture and superb countryside can one city and it's district have, in Bradford's case it has plenty. * The picture painted by some on here is not a true reflection of either the City of Bradford or it's surrounding district. * St Georges Hall is the oldest concert hall in the UK AND THE THIRD OLDEST IN THE WHOLE OF EUROPE. * Little Germany, home to many beautiful and listed buildings. City Park........i could go on but i've got a job in Bradford ..;)

Are you so dense that you think the population increase is all new borns.

The majority of the increase is the influx of people from asceeded EEC member states and Asylum seekers.

Read what I say.

I agree Little Germany is magnificent.

So why would Bradford now seek to close it off again with a scheme that will not work.

Dream on in the past.

Shall we put a statue up to Norman Corner?

No they aren't, most are new borns, so read what i say, your records stuck...... close it off lol..Little Germany, do you make it up as you type...nonsense, obviously your thought process is very limited... Little Germany is magnificent, perhaps a statue of Sir Jacob Behrens would be more apt.

Ah just move to Skipton/Steeton/Sils
den....probably the furthest away from Bradford with a good transport link meaning you'll only have to venture in for work then vacate home :).

It must be nice having three houses lol, Hopefully that's two lot's of council tax going to our fair city.......lol