End of an era as Bradford cafe closes (From Bradford Telegraph and Argus)

Very sad state of affairs. I stopped calling in there because of the smoking ban, and I suspect so did many more. It's probably that is the main cause of the cafe's demise, and the same for many pubs too.

This is sad news. But who are we to believe? This report or your report of 17th September about 100,000 people a week being drawn into centre of Bradford by City Park?

And Pizza Pieces hasn't long left - the council and T&A propaganda can big up the Park but how can areas like Market Street which are so close to the Park be suffering so much?

And the smoking ban is not the main reason for pubs closing. It's the failing to move with the times for many and keep up with the chains like Weatherspoons, and the cheap drinks you can getting those places or in the supermarket.

Another victim of Bradford council's incompetence. How many more before people demand change & sackings?

Rambo wrote:
And Pizza Pieces hasn't long left - the council and T&A propaganda can big up the Park but how can areas like Market Street which are so close to the Park be suffering so much?

And the smoking ban is not the main reason for pubs closing. It's the failing to move with the times for many and keep up with the chains like Weatherspoons, and the cheap drinks you can getting those places or in the supermarket.

Really? Well I haven't been in a pub since the ban was introduced, and I know many more who no longer go to pubs for that very reason.

webshow wrote:
Another victim of Bradford council's incompetence. How many more before people demand change & sackings?

And now that the ConDemned Government are making everyone destitute many more businesses will fail right across the country, not just in the Jurisdiction of BMDC.

What a shame, yet another long standing city cente business lost for ever.

How long will this situation be allowed to fester, because even Adolf Hitler did not carpet bomb the City Centre in a way that Westfield have!

Very sad to see another established business go to the wall. The whole character of Bradford town centre has been eroded over the last two decades and nothing to replace it. Shame on the Bradford Council management, present and those retired on their fat pensions.Some people in city hall have been looking after their own bank accounts and not the interests of Bradfordians for far too long!

A Casual Observer wrote:

Rambo wrote:
And Pizza Pieces hasn't long left - the council and T&A propaganda can big up the Park but how can areas like Market Street which are so close to the Park be suffering so much?

And the smoking ban is not the main reason for pubs closing. It's the failing to move with the times for many and keep up with the chains like Weatherspoons, and the cheap drinks you can getting those places or in the supermarket.

Really? Well I haven't been in a pub since the ban was introduced, and I know many more who no longer go to pubs for that very reason.

Well if you haven't been in a pub for 5 years since the ban was introduced maybe you should before making such an assumption.

And by saying "I know many more who no longer go to pubs for that very reason", then it shows you're the sort of stubborn old gits who can't accept change, won't give an inch at all, and would cut off their noses to spite their faces.

If you were so bothered about pubs closing you'd support the ones that need it, not boycott them because of government legislation then moan about them closing.

This is about a cafe so why are you going on about pubs! I don't want to eat in a cafe with selfish smokers

A Casual Observer wrote:
Very sad state of affairs. I stopped calling in there because of the smoking ban, and I suspect so did many more. It's probably that is the main cause of the cafe's demise, and the same for many pubs too.

How can you mask the incompetence of the westfield fiasco? The demise of bradford centre is the reason, not a 5 year old smoking ban.

Cafe's that are NOT next to building sites tend to do fine.

Bradford council/westfield are to blame here.

Eccybantam wrote:
This is about a cafe so why are you going on about pubs! I don't want to eat in a cafe with selfish smokers

One poster said the smoking was the "main cause of the cafes demise", when I'm sure most people would blame the failure of Westfield which many existing businesses were led on to believe it was due to start someday and would regenerate that area of the city. He also then said the smoking ban is why pubs are closing (which many in Bradford are) and I refuted that.

And speaking of Westfield, wasn't it back in February when that councillor (Greenwood/Green?) was squirming about a start date for work? 6 months on and not much has happened....

A Casual Observer wrote:

webshow wrote:
Another victim of Bradford council's incompetence. How many more before people demand change & sackings?

And now that the ConDemned Government are making everyone destitute many more businesses will fail right across the country, not just in the Jurisdiction of BMDC.

How would you reflate the ailing economy? What should be done.

Shipleyvegas wrote:

A Casual Observer wrote: Very sad state of affairs. I stopped calling in there because of the smoking ban, and I suspect so did many more. It's probably that is the main cause of the cafe's demise, and the same for many pubs too.

How can you mask the incompetence of the westfield fiasco? The demise of bradford centre is the reason, not a 5 year old smoking ban. Cafe's that are NOT next to building sites tend to do fine. Bradford council/westfield are to blame here.

Why is this being blamed on Bradford Council or Westfield? This guy has had 19 cafes close in thriving towns like Leeds, Wakefield and Harrogate. Its his business model that is wrong. The days where people go to a cafe for a cup of instant nescafe and a packet of custard creams served on a formica table are gone, a point this man has failed to grasp 19 times.
The big coffee chains are successful in Bradford so the demand for a decent cafe is clearly there.
Bradford council have a lot to answer for but they are off the hook on this one.

Sorry to see another established business having to close because of council policies. The Acropolis was originally a massive cafe on the corner of Market Street and Bridge Street and was a very, very busy coffee house for customers taking a break after doing their shopping in the City Centre (remember when people?). It them moved to Broadway and later was reduced to about half of its size. It was one of the clean and decent cafe's in the town centre. It will be missed and perhaps the council will allow another charity shop to trade there as on Market Street. Dire is hardly the word to describe the state of our City Centre.

Farsley Bantam wrote:

Shipleyvegas wrote:

A Casual Observer wrote: Very sad state of affairs. I stopped calling in there because of the smoking ban, and I suspect so did many more. It's probably that is the main cause of the cafe's demise, and the same for many pubs too.

How can you mask the incompetence of the westfield fiasco? The demise of bradford centre is the reason, not a 5 year old smoking ban. Cafe's that are NOT next to building sites tend to do fine. Bradford council/westfield are to blame here.

Why is this being blamed on Bradford Council or Westfield? This guy has had 19 cafes close in thriving towns like Leeds, Wakefield and Harrogate. Its his business model that is wrong. The days where people go to a cafe for a cup of instant nescafe and a packet of custard creams served on a formica table are gone, a point this man has failed to grasp 19 times.
The big coffee chains are successful in Bradford so the demand for a decent cafe is clearly there.
Bradford council have a lot to answer for but they are off the hook on this one.

Good point. I made a point earlier about pubs not moving with the times e.g. the old working mens clubs that refused to change with the times and only tried to change when it was too late. The next generation that would have gone there 20-30 years ago go to the more fashionable places now.

Same with this place - The generation of people who would have gone there years ago would associate a cafe of that nature as being a bit greasy-spoon ish.

BertSanders wrote:

A Casual Observer wrote:

webshow wrote:
Another victim of Bradford council's incompetence. How many more before people demand change & sackings?

And now that the ConDemned Government are making everyone destitute many more businesses will fail right across the country, not just in the Jurisdiction of BMDC.

How would you reflate the ailing economy? What should be done.

Take back our money from the thieving rich parasites who have pocketed it all.

Rambo wrote:

A Casual Observer wrote:

Rambo wrote:
And Pizza Pieces hasn't long left - the council and T&A propaganda can big up the Park but how can areas like Market Street which are so close to the Park be suffering so much?

And the smoking ban is not the main reason for pubs closing. It's the failing to move with the times for many and keep up with the chains like Weatherspoons, and the cheap drinks you can getting those places or in the supermarket.

Really? Well I haven't been in a pub since the ban was introduced, and I know many more who no longer go to pubs for that very reason.

Well if you haven't been in a pub for 5 years since the ban was introduced maybe you should before making such an assumption.

And by saying "I know many more who no longer go to pubs for that very reason", then it shows you're the sort of stubborn old gits who can't accept change, won't give an inch at all, and would cut off their noses to spite their faces.

If you were so bothered about pubs closing you'd support the ones that need it, not boycott them because of government legislation then moan about them closing.

I am not prepared to spend good money to stand outside in the rain. I can sit at home, with friends, and drink/smoke in comfort to my heart's content.

BertSanders wrote:

A Casual Observer wrote:

webshow wrote:
Another victim of Bradford council's incompetence. How many more before people demand change & sackings?

And now that the ConDemned Government are making everyone destitute many more businesses will fail right across the country, not just in the Jurisdiction of BMDC.

How would you reflate the ailing economy? What should be done.

Although I appreciate Bradfords problems are a lot bigger than the city centre fiasco, I beleive there is a simple solution to re establishing the city centre as a plausible place for people to visit and shop. Most people go to out of town retail parks such as White Rose or closer to home Forster Square because its free parking all day. Create free parking in the area that is the 'hole' and people will come and not just stay for 50 minutes but use places like the Acropolis as the foot flow increase the need for new shops will increase and the centre will become a better place to shop. Free all day parking is the answer!

Rambo wrote:

Farsley Bantam wrote:

Shipleyvegas wrote:

A Casual Observer wrote: Very sad state of affairs. I stopped calling in there because of the smoking ban, and I suspect so did many more. It's probably that is the main cause of the cafe's demise, and the same for many pubs too.

How can you mask the incompetence of the westfield fiasco? The demise of bradford centre is the reason, not a 5 year old smoking ban. Cafe's that are NOT next to building sites tend to do fine. Bradford council/westfield are to blame here.

Why is this being blamed on Bradford Council or Westfield? This guy has had 19 cafes close in thriving towns like Leeds, Wakefield and Harrogate. Its his business model that is wrong. The days where people go to a cafe for a cup of instant nescafe and a packet of custard creams served on a formica table are gone, a point this man has failed to grasp 19 times.
The big coffee chains are successful in Bradford so the demand for a decent cafe is clearly there.
Bradford council have a lot to answer for but they are off the hook on this one.

Good point. I made a point earlier about pubs not moving with the times e.g. the old working mens clubs that refused to change with the times and only tried to change when it was too late. The next generation that would have gone there 20-30 years ago go to the more fashionable places now.

Same with this place - The generation of people who would have gone there years ago would associate a cafe of that nature as being a bit greasy-spoon ish.

It's Bradford, there are still loads of people who like plain ordinary clean cafes where you can call in for a cuppa and fag whilst out shopping. Most of us don't want anything trendy. Having said that, the best cafes are in Amsterdam, where you can buy and smoke cannabis on the premises, and if we had them here too then business would be booming.

Rambo wrote:

Farsley Bantam wrote:

Shipleyvegas wrote:

A Casual Observer wrote: Very sad state of affairs. I stopped calling in there because of the smoking ban, and I suspect so did many more. It's probably that is the main cause of the cafe's demise, and the same for many pubs too.

How can you mask the incompetence of the westfield fiasco? The demise of bradford centre is the reason, not a 5 year old smoking ban. Cafe's that are NOT next to building sites tend to do fine. Bradford council/westfield are to blame here.

Why is this being blamed on Bradford Council or Westfield? This guy has had 19 cafes close in thriving towns like Leeds, Wakefield and Harrogate. Its his business model that is wrong. The days where people go to a cafe for a cup of instant nescafe and a packet of custard creams served on a formica table are gone, a point this man has failed to grasp 19 times. The big coffee chains are successful in Bradford so the demand for a decent cafe is clearly there. Bradford council have a lot to answer for but they are off the hook on this one.

Good point. I made a point earlier about pubs not moving with the times e.g. the old working mens clubs that refused to change with the times and only tried to change when it was too late. The next generation that would have gone there 20-30 years ago go to the more fashionable places now. Same with this place - The generation of people who would have gone there years ago would associate a cafe of that nature as being a bit greasy-spoon ish.

Very true. Pubs are closing in Bradford but good ones are doing well (eg Fighting ****) and newly opened ones that offer something different (the Sparrow) are thriving.
Admittedly it is very difficult trading in Bradford but you can make a success of it if you are prepared to adapt to change and cater for customers ever changing needs.
Having the same business model for 40+ years while the world around you has changed dramatically is unforgivable.

A Casual Observer wrote:

Rambo wrote:

Farsley Bantam wrote:

Shipleyvegas wrote:

A Casual Observer wrote: Very sad state of affairs. I stopped calling in there because of the smoking ban, and I suspect so did many more. It's probably that is the main cause of the cafe's demise, and the same for many pubs too.

How can you mask the incompetence of the westfield fiasco? The demise of bradford centre is the reason, not a 5 year old smoking ban. Cafe's that are NOT next to building sites tend to do fine. Bradford council/westfield are to blame here.

Why is this being blamed on Bradford Council or Westfield? This guy has had 19 cafes close in thriving towns like Leeds, Wakefield and Harrogate. Its his business model that is wrong. The days where people go to a cafe for a cup of instant nescafe and a packet of custard creams served on a formica table are gone, a point this man has failed to grasp 19 times. The big coffee chains are successful in Bradford so the demand for a decent cafe is clearly there. Bradford council have a lot to answer for but they are off the hook on this one.

Good point. I made a point earlier about pubs not moving with the times e.g. the old working mens clubs that refused to change with the times and only tried to change when it was too late. The next generation that would have gone there 20-30 years ago go to the more fashionable places now. Same with this place - The generation of people who would have gone there years ago would associate a cafe of that nature as being a bit greasy-spoon ish.

It's Bradford, there are still loads of people who like plain ordinary clean cafes where you can call in for a cuppa and fag whilst out shopping. Most of us don't want anything trendy. Having said that, the best cafes are in Amsterdam, where you can buy and smoke cannabis on the premises, and if we had them here too then business would be booming.

I think most of 'us' do want something trendy, or at least something a bit more sophisticated than The Acropolis, hence multiple closures by this chain.

Farsley Bantam wrote:

A Casual Observer wrote:

Rambo wrote:

Farsley Bantam wrote:

Shipleyvegas wrote:

A Casual Observer wrote: Very sad state of affairs. I stopped calling in there because of the smoking ban, and I suspect so did many more. It's probably that is the main cause of the cafe's demise, and the same for many pubs too.

How can you mask the incompetence of the westfield fiasco? The demise of bradford centre is the reason, not a 5 year old smoking ban. Cafe's that are NOT next to building sites tend to do fine. Bradford council/westfield are to blame here.

Why is this being blamed on Bradford Council or Westfield? This guy has had 19 cafes close in thriving towns like Leeds, Wakefield and Harrogate. Its his business model that is wrong. The days where people go to a cafe for a cup of instant nescafe and a packet of custard creams served on a formica table are gone, a point this man has failed to grasp 19 times. The big coffee chains are successful in Bradford so the demand for a decent cafe is clearly there. Bradford council have a lot to answer for but they are off the hook on this one.

Good point. I made a point earlier about pubs not moving with the times e.g. the old working mens clubs that refused to change with the times and only tried to change when it was too late. The next generation that would have gone there 20-30 years ago go to the more fashionable places now. Same with this place - The generation of people who would have gone there years ago would associate a cafe of that nature as being a bit greasy-spoon ish.

It's Bradford, there are still loads of people who like plain ordinary clean cafes where you can call in for a cuppa and fag whilst out shopping. Most of us don't want anything trendy. Having said that, the best cafes are in Amsterdam, where you can buy and smoke cannabis on the premises, and if we had them here too then business would be booming.

I think most of 'us' do want something trendy, or at least something a bit more sophisticated than The Acropolis, hence multiple closures by this chain.

I bet you that were it not for the smoking ban this cafe would still be doing a good trade.

A Casual Observer wrote:

Farsley Bantam wrote:

A Casual Observer wrote:

Rambo wrote:

Farsley Bantam wrote:

Shipleyvegas wrote:

A Casual Observer wrote: Very sad state of affairs. I stopped calling in there because of the smoking ban, and I suspect so did many more. It's probably that is the main cause of the cafe's demise, and the same for many pubs too.

How can you mask the incompetence of the westfield fiasco? The demise of bradford centre is the reason, not a 5 year old smoking ban. Cafe's that are NOT next to building sites tend to do fine. Bradford council/westfield are to blame here.

Why is this being blamed on Bradford Council or Westfield? This guy has had 19 cafes close in thriving towns like Leeds, Wakefield and Harrogate. Its his business model that is wrong. The days where people go to a cafe for a cup of instant nescafe and a packet of custard creams served on a formica table are gone, a point this man has failed to grasp 19 times. The big coffee chains are successful in Bradford so the demand for a decent cafe is clearly there. Bradford council have a lot to answer for but they are off the hook on this one.

Good point. I made a point earlier about pubs not moving with the times e.g. the old working mens clubs that refused to change with the times and only tried to change when it was too late. The next generation that would have gone there 20-30 years ago go to the more fashionable places now. Same with this place - The generation of people who would have gone there years ago would associate a cafe of that nature as being a bit greasy-spoon ish.

It's Bradford, there are still loads of people who like plain ordinary clean cafes where you can call in for a cuppa and fag whilst out shopping. Most of us don't want anything trendy. Having said that, the best cafes are in Amsterdam, where you can buy and smoke cannabis on the premises, and if we had them here too then business would be booming.

I think most of 'us' do want something trendy, or at least something a bit more sophisticated than The Acropolis, hence multiple closures by this chain.

I bet you that were it not for the smoking ban this cafe would still be doing a good trade.

No it wouldn't. People would just go to Cafe Nero and have a grande mocha choca frappe late and a fag instead.

A Casual Observer wrote:

Rambo wrote:
And Pizza Pieces hasn't long left - the council and T&A propaganda can big up the Park but how can areas like Market Street which are so close to the Park be suffering so much?

And the smoking ban is not the main reason for pubs closing. It's the failing to move with the times for many and keep up with the chains like Weatherspoons, and the cheap drinks you can getting those places or in the supermarket.

Really? Well I haven't been in a pub since the ban was introduced, and I know many more who no longer go to pubs for that very reason.

You shouldn't be able to afford to go in pubs, all you do is draw benefits.

That is a shame. It was a nice little business. When I lived/worked in Bfd I used it regularly. Moved on since then and rarely visit Bfd at all now.

Very sad good spot for a 99p chicken n chips and a can shop as thats about what most bradford folk want they always busy

A Casual Observer wrote:

BertSanders wrote:

A Casual Observer wrote:

webshow wrote:
Another victim of Bradford council's incompetence. How many more before people demand change & sackings?

And now that the ConDemned Government are making everyone destitute many more businesses will fail right across the country, not just in the Jurisdiction of BMDC.

How would you reflate the ailing economy? What should be done.

Take back our money from the thieving rich parasites who have pocketed it all.

Might work but is unlikely in a democratic society - I would suggest
you use your prolific letter writing time
to seeking work or start a business.It would need an attitude change to do either.

Farsley Bantam - without wanting to quote all the posts you did - indeed.

I live in Leeds now but when I do come back to Bradford I do go to the Sparrow, Fannys (used to live in Saltaire) and a few other places. Because they do what they do fantastically well and have developed solid customer bases that way.

The Sparrow in particular successfully uses local media and social networking to promote itself - a sign of the times that traditional businesses know not a thing about.

Its a business example that many on a local and national level need to do - move with the times. Its not the 1960s/80s anymore. People are different.

You go somewhere like Manchester and to a slightly lesser extent Leeds and there are plenty of modern businesses - e.g. technology based stores, bars, niche restaurants/cafes etc that do survive because they attract people under the age of about 30-40 who would never step foot in an old fashioned pub/working mens club these days.

On a national scale, look at the some of the businesses that are struggling because of a failure to adapt to smaller more efficient and technology-savvy competitors - e.g. Clinton Cards, WhSmiths, Waterstones.

The sort of people who used to go to cafes like the Acropolis (I remember going in there when I was young and Im nearly 30 now) are not being replaced. More people are wanting paninis and lattes, not egg and chips and instant coffee (which I was specifically asked for when I worked in a coffee house chain a few years back).

While the Wesfield saga has played its part, for many long-term businesses, its change or die.

Sad to see it close, but I think places like Wetherspoons and Red Room on Queensgate offer a better breakfast-ing experience or somewhere like Starbucks or Costa for coffee, or places like Greggs or the many cheap takeaways quell many people's appetites for very cheap food.

I would have had more sympathy if they'd have tried to move with the times.

In these days of bountiful cheap and samey places to eat and drink, these kind of places need to have a unique selling point and something that'd really make you want to go...

If the 'official' figures are correct, then an extra 425,000 people would have passed by in July. If only 1 in a 1000 had decided to pop in for a coffee then it would have made a difference.
It either the means the new people who visited were too high class for a traditional cafe or the figures aren't correct.

On the subject of the smoking ban, I'd be considerably more likely to visit since it's horrible, smokey atmosphere disappeared.

A Casual Observer wrote:
Very sad state of affairs. I stopped calling in there because of the smoking ban, and I suspect so did many more. It's probably that is the main cause of the cafe's demise, and the same for many pubs too.

What? A smoking ban, it is not an eating ban. You can still get a jacket spud and a good brew. Are you saying that since the ban, you no longer eat or drink out - in any form? From the local boozer to a city centre cafe? If that is true, then quite frankly you are stubborn fool.

Shipleyvegas wrote:

A Casual Observer wrote:
Very sad state of affairs. I stopped calling in there because of the smoking ban, and I suspect so did many more. It's probably that is the main cause of the cafe's demise, and the same for many pubs too.

How can you mask the incompetence of the westfield fiasco? The demise of bradford centre is the reason, not a 5 year old smoking ban.

Cafe's that are NOT next to building sites tend to do fine.

Bradford council/westfield are to blame here.

Cafes that are next to building sites do very well, lots of builders, mugs of tea, bacon butties.

Cafes that are next to dereliction and empty space/holes don't do too well.

If you go out of the city up roads like Leeds road, up near the university or travel into any of the mainly Asian areas you will see thriving business, busy shops and lots of flash cars. The demographic of Bradford has changed and sadly a large part of the Bradford community do all their shopping just within their own ethnic group, segregating themselves off from the rest of the city. This has a huge effect on the city center especially when they only shop within their own community's and put very little back into the wider community. More needs to be done to embrace all ethnic groups and get them together.

Cafes can apply for a free Cafe license permit from the Council to put table and chairs outside where smokers can both drink and smoke.

So you cant blame the no smoking for the closure of this cafe. There are over 30 cafes within the city centre all vying for the same business.Why do people always have to blame the Council for everything????

Rambo wrote:
And Pizza Pieces hasn't long left - the council and T&A propaganda can big up the Park but how can areas like Market Street which are so close to the Park be suffering so much?

And the smoking ban is not the main reason for pubs closing. It's the failing to move with the times for many and keep up with the chains like Weatherspoons, and the cheap drinks you can getting those places or in the supermarket.

Im sorry Rambo, but as an ex Bradford Public House Landlord, I will have to disagree. I had a very successful food pub on the outskirts of Bradford which before the smoking ban was taking between £17,000 and £20,000 per week. After the smoking ban was introduced, the takings fell to between £9,000 and £13,000 per week as we lost approximately 90% of our tea time trade (people calling for a pint on the way home) and 85% of our Friday and Saturday evening trade, so the smoking ban did have a massive effect. I go to many pubs and clubs in and around Bradford and you can see them all struggling. I often go to the cafes at the back of the Kirkgate Market and even these are a lot quieter since the smoking ban came into effect. It is sad to see these institutions closing down and if Pizza Slices goes I will be even more upset - I love that place and if me and the wife are ever in town we always go there for lunch - quality!

A Casual Observer wrote:
Very sad state of affairs. I stopped calling in there because of the smoking ban, and I suspect so did many more. It's probably that is the main cause of the cafe's demise, and the same for many pubs too.

Why do you have to stop going in a cafe because of the smoking ban !!!! eat, drink and then go outside for your fag !!!!

I remember when Jimmy was at the old Britannia Coffee Bar where the phone shop is now. I've had many a really good, tasty home-cooked meal in there and he always had time for a friendly chat with the customers.
Very sorry to hear this sad news about the closure

DO YOU REMEMBER THE GOOD OLD DAYS, BEFORE THE GHOST TOWN?

DO YOU REMEMBER THE GOOD OLD DAYS, BEFORE THE GHOST TOWN?

No doubt Mr green as with his response to this will blame the recession as he did to the bad news re bits and pizzas a couple of months back.

Customers are usually loyal and creatures of habit.

Perhaps he did not move with the times but the complete lack of footfall is the main reason.
Yet another sad day.

How many is that long established retailers that have simply had to give up because that area has become ghostville.

i am constantly filled with the sound of the Specials 1980"s song.

this town is looking like a ghost town.

two weeks ago I met with friends on the water side in Leeds.

the place everywhere on a sat evening was heaving.

i drove back through Bradford centre (a sat nite)and depression took hold.

Why did the cityfathers allow Bradford to roll over and die these past 15 whilst leeds centre just grew and grew.

part of a masterplan perhaps to fill the place with rubbish a dumping ground.

westfield are not alone in the catastrophe.

councillors and council policies over a long period are to blame.

Eccybantam wrote:
This is about a cafe so why are you going on about pubs! I don't want to eat in a cafe with selfish smokers

Me neither. Pubs are far better too.

Eccybantam wrote:
This is about a cafe so why are you going on about pubs! I don't want to eat in a cafe with selfish smokers

Me neither. Pubs are far better too.

well its ripe another curry house !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

its not rocket science
footfall says all -
if you speak to anyone
every body says the same
bradford centre feels like a foreign country
footfall goes to leeds !

What smoking ban? If you like to smoke tobacco indoors go to one of the many Shisha lounges which operate untouched by the authorities in Bradford!

Farsley Bantam wrote:

Shipleyvegas wrote:

A Casual Observer wrote: Very sad state of affairs. I stopped calling in there because of the smoking ban, and I suspect so did many more. It's probably that is the main cause of the cafe's demise, and the same for many pubs too.

How can you mask the incompetence of the westfield fiasco? The demise of bradford centre is the reason, not a 5 year old smoking ban. Cafe's that are NOT next to building sites tend to do fine. Bradford council/westfield are to blame here.

Why is this being blamed on Bradford Council or Westfield? This guy has had 19 cafes close in thriving towns like Leeds, Wakefield and Harrogate. Its his business model that is wrong. The days where people go to a cafe for a cup of instant nescafe and a packet of custard creams served on a formica table are gone, a point this man has failed to grasp 19 times.
The big coffee chains are successful in Bradford so the demand for a decent cafe is clearly there.
Bradford council have a lot to answer for but they are off the hook on this one.

Good point...

A Casual Observer wrote:

Rambo wrote:
And Pizza Pieces hasn't long left - the council and T&A propaganda can big up the Park but how can areas like Market Street which are so close to the Park be suffering so much?

And the smoking ban is not the main reason for pubs closing. It's the failing to move with the times for many and keep up with the chains like Weatherspoons, and the cheap drinks you can getting those places or in the supermarket.

Really? Well I haven't been in a pub since the ban was introduced, and I know many more who no longer go to pubs for that very reason.

Well, I can tell you from personal experience that it is not the smoking ban, that has killed pubs, or cafes.
I very rarely went into pubs before the the smoking ban, especially for two reasons. One, I did not like coming out smelling of cigarette smoke, and two, I hated even more, eating and drinking when people were blowing smoke all around me. Since the smoking ban, I visit pubs regularly now, especially for meals, and it is not just me, there are several in my group, and we go three or four times a week to different pubs, to sample their culinary delights. I am sure that there are just as many who now do frequent pubs because of the ban on smoking, as there are that stay away because of it,

Every single one of the points above is legitimate. I'm sure the smoking ban has made some difference to older businesses but no business can thrive forever without attracting new customers. The Council haven't served Bradford well and the people of Bradford have been betrayed over and over again. However places like the Sparrow and Handmade in Bradford do prove that there is life beyond Wetherspoons and Costa. The City can only be revitalised by encouraging innovation and taking positive action on reducing business rates and rentals, the free parking idea is also good. I recently heard a radio item about the Bristol pound which is a local currency that local businesses sign up for and use to encourage people to shop with independent retailers. Bradford probably doesn't have independent retailers to set this up as yet but really new ideas are the only way to pull ourselves up out of the mire. The 'big boys' have all but abandoned us so we have to be innovative and quick thinking and we have to make it cheap and easy for creative thinkers to set up businesses here (white / asian / east european / everybody!) and create a place that's interesting to be and has interesting things to buy. The City Park is lovely but it's an oasis of loveliness and there isn't much reason to venture further into the city on a nice day. We have so much going for us and so much talent here I wish the council would capitalise on it.

Rambo wrote:
And Pizza Pieces hasn't long left - the council and T&A propaganda can big up the Park but how can areas like Market Street which are so close to the Park be suffering so much?

And the smoking ban is not the main reason for pubs closing. It's the failing to move with the times for many and keep up with the chains like Weatherspoons, and the cheap drinks you can getting those places or in the supermarket.

Move with the times?
Most landlords buy dearer than what supermarkets sell their products at and they have no option to buy off who ever owns their pubs.
Companys such as Punch and Enterprise "fine" anyone buying products else where.
Also big companys like Weatherspoons can buy in bulk to get a discount, little pubs buying only a few barrels a week have full price to pay so cannot discount like they can!

...which is precisely why they have to innovate, be creative and offer something that the big companies can't (individuality, interest and heart). Not everybody is looking for the cheapest option - this is proved by the fact that the Acropolis is closing due to lack of footfall and the way more expensive Cafe Nero, Costa and Starbucks are full of people. I went to the Acropolis a few times when i was a student - we saw it as a bit of a curious throwback even all those years ago and the food was fine but languishing back in the 1970s. If you want a vintage cafe experience, you can find more charming ones elsewhere. The Swallow and Fanny's have a lot of trade and obviously they don't have the buying power of Wetherspoons. People go because they're good quality places with an individual atmosphere that have marketed themselves well at the right audience....You know exactly what you're going to get at Wetherspoons and it's absolutely fine but most people DON'T want that corporate, blandness all the time. Having a defeatist attitude rather than thinking of what we can do to make things better will be the nail in our coffin.

I had worked in Bradford for six years and this cafe was just around the corner from Hall Ings where I worked. I had no desire to visit the place. Reason? well it looked like a Butlins canteen. The "menu" was also rubbish. You would have thought a cafe with a Greek name could have provided a few Greek dishes. No. It served crap. Hope they dont want a Greek style bailout to help them out! Perhaps they should set up a Taxi or Car-Wash business in Bradford, they make magic amounts of money out of thin air. Our "asian" friends are financial wizards (when you turn a blind eye).

The cafe closing has nothing to do with the council / smoking ban / Westfield etc etc etc. its purely down to it being a shoddy place with an owner who hasnt a clue about change or doesnt want to pay for it.

grey dog wrote:
...which is precisely why they have to innovate, be creative and offer something that the big companies can't (individuality, interest and heart). Not everybody is looking for the cheapest option - this is proved by the fact that the Acropolis is closing due to lack of footfall and the way more expensive Cafe Nero, Costa and Starbucks are full of people. I went to the Acropolis a few times when i was a student - we saw it as a bit of a curious throwback even all those years ago and the food was fine but languishing back in the 1970s. If you want a vintage cafe experience, you can find more charming ones elsewhere. The Swallow and Fanny's have a lot of trade and obviously they don't have the buying power of Wetherspoons. People go because they're good quality places with an individual atmosphere that have marketed themselves well at the right audience....You know exactly what you're going to get at Wetherspoons and it's absolutely fine but most people DON'T want that corporate, blandness all the time. Having a defeatist attitude rather than thinking of what we can do to make things better will be the nail in our coffin.

The only reason Wetherspoons do so well if because of the cheap as chips prices they charge which attract a certain customer. From industry knowledge the only reason they are able to buy beer so cheap is because they buy from end of life barrells from Brewerys who wouldnt even supply these to their own pubs. Because Wetherspoons know they can sell this cr4p at cheap prices they can get rid of more or less out of date beer very very quickly

This is how this chain does well. Couple that with the fact they keep overheads as cheap as possible e.g. no music etc and this is why its an alcy's dream pub

Andy2010 wrote:
The cafe closing has nothing to do with the council / smoking ban / Westfield etc etc etc. its purely down to it being a shoddy place with an owner who hasnt a clue about change or doesnt want to pay for it.

It's not shoddy at all, it is a nice ordinary decent little caff, except you can't smoke so I don't go there anymore.

BertSanders wrote:

A Casual Observer wrote:

BertSanders wrote:

A Casual Observer wrote:

webshow wrote:
Another victim of Bradford council's incompetence. How many more before people demand change & sackings?

And now that the ConDemned Government are making everyone destitute many more businesses will fail right across the country, not just in the Jurisdiction of BMDC.

How would you reflate the ailing economy? What should be done.

Take back our money from the thieving rich parasites who have pocketed it all.

Might work but is unlikely in a democratic society - I would suggest
you use your prolific letter writing time
to seeking work or start a business.It would need an attitude change to do either.

Up yours.

Albion. wrote:

A Casual Observer wrote:

Rambo wrote:
And Pizza Pieces hasn't long left - the council and T&A propaganda can big up the Park but how can areas like Market Street which are so close to the Park be suffering so much?

And the smoking ban is not the main reason for pubs closing. It's the failing to move with the times for many and keep up with the chains like Weatherspoons, and the cheap drinks you can getting those places or in the supermarket.

Really? Well I haven't been in a pub since the ban was introduced, and I know many more who no longer go to pubs for that very reason.

You shouldn't be able to afford to go in pubs, all you do is draw benefits.

I can't afford to go to pubs, and neither can 3 or 4 million other people, which is why the economy is fooked. Satisfied?

flashdonut wrote:

A Casual Observer wrote:
Very sad state of affairs. I stopped calling in there because of the smoking ban, and I suspect so did many more. It's probably that is the main cause of the cafe's demise, and the same for many pubs too.

What? A smoking ban, it is not an eating ban. You can still get a jacket spud and a good brew. Are you saying that since the ban, you no longer eat or drink out - in any form? From the local boozer to a city centre cafe? If that is true, then quite frankly you are stubborn fool.

That is correct. I never eat out of visit pubs, or cinemas, because I can't smoke there. I know plenty of others who do the same.

Wow.

The Specials - Ghost Town just started on the radio as I was reading the comments quoting it.

Must be an omen, Maybe I'll win the lotto?

No?

Okay, I'll just be content that I no longer live in Bradford.

What's the ethnic split in Bradford these days?

When I think of cafes like this I think of bacon, sausage etc. Or more to the point, pork.

I know that's not all they sell but...

stuworx1 wrote:
What's the ethnic split in Bradford these days?

When I think of cafes like this I think of bacon, sausage etc. Or more to the point, pork.

I know that's not all they sell but...

I think of the 522,500 population of the Bradford district...16% don't eat pork, hardly a deal breaker. Personally we come from East Morton but shop in Bradford, we like Starbucks in the Wool Exchange after a shop, beautiful surrounds and the coffee is good. Perhaps the idiots in city hall might try a a refurbished Odeon make it a Concert Hall come conference centre, a world class facillity would attract folk with money into the city centre on afternoon/ evenings...surely even our inept city council can grasp this as it's a nobrainer!!!!

singforyourcity wrote:
If you go out of the city up roads like Leeds road, up near the university or travel into any of the mainly Asian areas you will see thriving business, busy shops and lots of flash cars. The demographic of Bradford has changed and sadly a large part of the Bradford community do all their shopping just within their own ethnic group, segregating themselves off from the rest of the city. This has a huge effect on the city center especially when they only shop within their own community's and put very little back into the wider community. More needs to be done to embrace all ethnic groups and get them together.

Yes - I would agree very much with you . I myself am a second generation immigrant, but feel that a significant contributing factor to the continued decline of Bradford City Centre (& a significant barrier to its revival) is the inward looking South Asian culture prevalent & dominant in Bradford. Although some areas of Bradford are thriving with obvious signs of wealth (expensive cars, clothes, etc) - & these are areas dominated with South Asian businesses, businesses which are not South Asian orientated within the city centre continue to struggle. I feel you are correct in your assertion that members of the South Asian community in Bradford tend to predominately spend & support businesses run by members of their own community. In my opinion this is an issue some left leaning ppl in Brd seem to be in denial about. I feel the Council also is in part responsible for this problem by focusing too many events & attention on South Asian culture, whilst (unfairly in my opinion) ignore the other wealth of cultures present in the city (Polish, Ukraine, Italian, Irish, Slovakian etc). Other multicultural towns & cities whom are successful thriving places like Manchester, Liverpool etc are far more integrated and balanced. And the calender of events these cities have reflect this much more positive balance of celebrating & highlighting a wider range of cultures. Bradford will simply not thrive and develop if it does not readdress this imbalance. And the best place to start is to start incorporating events highlighting other cultures. Also the emphasis people put on the stalled Westfield development as being the sole cause of Bradford's negative image / decline is over simplistic. I would say the reasons for the city's failure to be as successful as its neighbouring towns/cities like Halifax, Huddersfield, Wakefield etc is far more complex.

Bradford's economy dwarfs all towns and cities in Yorkshire except Leeds and Sheffield, 7 billion to be exact, yes Bradford city centre hasn't got the range of shops it had but it still out performs all three of the places mentioned above and is in fact rising up the retail league table.

The only time local cllrs will open their mouths or act will be when the cafe in city hall closes and affects the loss of their own cups of tea.
As long as the fiefdom in City Hall continues and is well stocked they couldn't give a brew for anything else happening around the city.

It's amazing how a story about a terminally ill chain of coffee shops becomes a rant against Bradford Council / the government / Westfield etc. Are you sure it isn't the Odeon being left to rot that has caused this?