Guilfoyle rejects criticism by Bradford Bulls fans (From Bradford Telegraph and Argus)

Mr Guilfoyle wants to wise up and stop spending so much time in the media without saying anything of substance and then he wouldnt end up being criticised. Anyone would think he was being paid by the hour !!. Unlike the staff who are pulling there whotsits off for no pay

"Brendan Guilfoyle, of The P&A Partnership, refuted supporters’ suggestions he had been “less than open” about potential offers for the stricken side ...."

Ok, Mr G. Stop beating about the bush. Why do you say you have received "up to five" offers? Is it five or not?

You say you are looking at "between one and five potential bids.". So how many is it? One, two, three four or five?

"The people that are interested have been involved over a long period of time." What? SLE came in at the last minute. You said it was a complete shock to you. BCFC came in even later.

Maybe if you stop contradicting yourself every time you open your mouth then people will start to believe what you say.

You knew his CV before he came so we haven't really been surprised by what has gone on. He's not going to be given the key to the City but he has done his job for the creditors and his company. He was between a rock and a hard place. Cursed if he did and cursed if he didn't. He has as many friends as Peter Hood but for all the wrong reasons.

Tricky Dicky wrote:
You knew his CV before he came so we haven't really been surprised by what has gone on. He's not going to be given the key to the City but he has done his job for the creditors and his company. He was between a rock and a hard place. Cursed if he did and cursed if he didn't. He has as many friends as Peter Hood but for all the wrong reasons.

Well said.

And in a little over 5 weeks he has drummed up enough interest to ensure the Bulls survive.

It is not his fault that the previous idiot budgeted to lose 1.2 million.

That appears to be the level of debt remainig.

Well done Mr Hood.

There could be serious repurcussions if the administater does his job properly and reports the conduct of the previous directors.

arhmen aleg wrote:

Tricky Dicky wrote:
You knew his CV before he came so we haven't really been surprised by what has gone on. He's not going to be given the key to the City but he has done his job for the creditors and his company. He was between a rock and a hard place. Cursed if he did and cursed if he didn't. He has as many friends as Peter Hood but for all the wrong reasons.

Well said.

And in a little over 5 weeks he has drummed up enough interest to ensure the Bulls survive.

It is not his fault that the previous idiot budgeted to lose 1.2 million.

That appears to be the level of debt remainig.

Well done Mr Hood.

There could be serious repurcussions if the administater does his job properly and reports the conduct of the previous directors.

Calm down you two. At the moment he has achieved absolutely nothing apart from ensuring he will get his own hands on what is left at this club. His latest claim is that he has between one and five bids. As stated above. Why can't he be totally honest and say exactly how many. We all know who he has been employed by and whos interests he is protecting. If you believe he has the clubs interest at heart I am afraid you cannot be further away from the truth.

I felt he made it abundantly clear at the Guidepost meeting what his intentions were regarding the conduct of the former directors. I have to say I thought he was rather unprofessional in how he put it across, as IMO he came across (I am sure it must have been unintentional) as having them very much in his sights. IMO he played into the hands of those conspiracy theorists who have alleged he was brought in to put the knife in. I am sure he is far more professional than that? Surely?
.
I hope, thougth, that he is just as thorough in examining the conduct of the replacement directors since the Eviction, since (as far as I can see from what has been put in the public domain) they clocked up on their watch two months' PAYE that they then defaulted on, and the tax liabilities were seemingly considerably higher than when they took office, as well as all the massive momentum of the fans getting behind the club being lost. I feel sure that surreal, limbo period must figure highly in his assessment of why the disastrous intervention led to where we are now.?
.
And if not, why not?

So the elusive Mr Guilfoyle is suddenly available to make a comment !!!

What a surprise that the two bids suspected of being vehicles for a former chairman gaining control are the ones mentioned by name in article( along with SL bid) whilst other bids are barely mentioned. Clear whose pocket t&a are in!.

The Bulls will survive.

I have it on authority even if the RFL have to loan money over a long period to ensure the 1.2 losses budgeted for takes rather a long time to repay the creditors.

There will be proper investigations re the conduct of all the directors.

That will not be BG"s remit.
Someone with far more expertise in such matters will be looking at that.

CC is not behind a bid.
They are all independent.

CC shares were worthless for some time now

Adeybull wrote:
I felt he made it abundantly clear at the Guidepost meeting what his intentions were regarding the conduct of the former directors. I have to say I thought he was rather unprofessional in how he put it across, as IMO he came across (I am sure it must have been unintentional) as having them very much in his sights. IMO he played into the hands of those conspiracy theorists who have alleged he was brought in to put the knife in. I am sure he is far more professional than that? Surely? . I hope, thougth, that he is just as thorough in examining the conduct of the replacement directors since the Eviction, since (as far as I can see from what has been put in the public domain) they clocked up on their watch two months' PAYE that they then defaulted on, and the tax liabilities were seemingly considerably higher than when they took office, as well as all the massive momentum of the fans getting behind the club being lost. I feel sure that surreal, limbo period must figure highly in his assessment of why the disastrous intervention led to where we are now.? . And if not, why not?

I thought the surreal limbo period came about under hoods watch where after 400000 was raised it seemed to go quiet in terms of pledge appeal.

Despite Hood saying a million was needed.

Post eviction there was no appeal for funding at all.

In any event all professional opinion(including my own)I have canvassed suggetsts a wages bill of 3 million,budgeting to lose 1.2 million is enough evidence of the incompetence that was bound to lead to insolvency and that is precisely what has happened.

unfit for purpose sterwardship and the RFL agree.

I would"nt trust any of them with a fiver to go to the corner shop for my granny.(if she was still alive).

It looks like the Bulls only kept their head up above water for so long was because Bradford Council GAVE them 5 milliom ten years ago which was blown.

And now the only valuable asset is lost whilst those who know its true value squabble to try take it back.

Unfortuneately it is no longer anyones but the RFL.

And as they look like they are going to have to continue to fill the black hole for some considerable time yet the likelihood of getting it back for a song is spent.

The whole of Super League will be forced to change through this shambles.

Stupid stupid stupid.

I see only 4 teams have ever won Super League.

Bit like the premier league really.

The rest probably never will unless sugar dads like Man City"scome along and buy success through gifts of 300 million.And counting.

Lost my love of pro sport.

Come and watch the Avenue.
#
Then you will all see what fun it is to acheive something with bugg*r all.

And dont talk about Blackbird.He has not a carrot

mdn wrote:
What a surprise that the two bids suspected of being vehicles for a former chairman gaining control are the ones mentioned by name in article( along with SL bid) whilst other bids are barely mentioned. Clear whose pocket t&a are in!.

CC is not involved.period.

arhmen aleg wrote:

mdn wrote:
What a surprise that the two bids suspected of being vehicles for a former chairman gaining control are the ones mentioned by name in article( along with SL bid) whilst other bids are barely mentioned. Clear whose pocket t&a are in!.

CC is not involved.period.

If it makes you feel better to think that, go right ahead. I guess someone has to believe that. And it was hardly surprising the pledge momentum stopped, when Caisley stated the day before the Leeds game that he was going to remove the board and his words made it plain he was so clearly gunning for them. History may well record the latter months of the Hood era as a slow motion financial car crash; it will assuredly record Caisley's intervention, and most especially the manner and timing of it, as a total and utter disaster for the club.

arhmen aleg wrote:

mdn wrote:
What a surprise that the two bids suspected of being vehicles for a former chairman gaining control are the ones mentioned by name in article( along with SL bid) whilst other bids are barely mentioned. Clear whose pocket t&a are in!.

CC is not involved.period.

If it makes you feel better to think that, go right ahead. I guess someone has to believe that. And it was hardly surprising the pledge momentum stopped, when Caisley stated the day before the Leeds game that he was going to remove the board and his words made it plain he was so clearly gunning for them. History may well record the latter months of the Hood era as a slow motion financial car crash; it will assuredly record Caisley's intervention, and most especially the manner and timing of it, as a total and utter disaster for the club.

Why should be he even take any critism?
Hes doing a job due to the joke running of the club for years.

As I said earlier in the week, the Bulls have lived a life of excess for almost 10 years on the back of the Council Tax payers. Ahmen aleg is nearly right with his figure of £5M but even the T&A reported £8.6M afew weeks ago.
This has been mis spent on Australian pensioners and living beyond their means in a decrepit stadium and with a management team excessive in size and highly paid and a Board who clearly weren`t fit to cross the road to buy a loaf of bread.
Mr. G has managed to convince the RfL to forward money and conjure up interest where there was non, what`s wrong with that? at least he has managed to get the Bulls to the end of the season. I am not a Bulls fan, just a sports fan and a desperate Bradfordian looking for good news but it seems to me Bulls fans, or a large number of them just don`t get it. You are in a big big mess, realise that, stop talking about things like retaining coaching staff, etc. any survival will be based on shoestrings.

bingleymoor wrote:
As I said earlier in the week, the Bulls have lived a life of excess for almost 10 years on the back of the Council Tax payers. Ahmen aleg is nearly right with his figure of £5M but even the T&A reported £8.6M afew weeks ago.
This has been mis spent on Australian pensioners and living beyond their means in a decrepit stadium and with a management team excessive in size and highly paid and a Board who clearly weren`t fit to cross the road to buy a loaf of bread.
Mr. G has managed to convince the RfL to forward money and conjure up interest where there was non, what`s wrong with that? at least he has managed to get the Bulls to the end of the season. I am not a Bulls fan, just a sports fan and a desperate Bradfordian looking for good news but it seems to me Bulls fans, or a large number of them just don`t get it. You are in a big big mess, realise that, stop talking about things like retaining coaching staff, etc. any survival will be based on shoestrings.

Don't speak the truth, they don't like it.

Bingleymoor - sorry, but cannot agree with most of that.
.
The mangement team in recent years was too small and not paid enough. Catch 22 situation, with ultimately inevitable consequences. I saw with my own eyes how less money meant fewer capable staff meant less income meant less capable staff meant...so by the time the crash finally came we were left with a handful of very hard-working people with far too much on their shoulders.
.
The life of excess, if it ever was (and I would dispute that) was in the Caisley years after the return to Odsal, when the club was losing £600k per annum. Anyone remember that? I didn't see that being referred to by Camp Caisley anywhere. Yet they were doing their best to take the club forward. In the end, as you saw from his statement in the 2004 annual report, he blamed the fans for not turning out in ever-increasing numbers for the coming troubles which he himself in that report foretold. I suspect he was getting exasperated by then. I saw the man, in passing (not to speak), just after one of his last games, and a good win. His face was like thunder, and he was playing hell about how poor the crowd was.
.
But to the fans this was invisible, because - even though some of us were warning voices in the wilderness - the then - board was spending the OIdsal settlement money far far far faster than they should have been. And yet I cannot see what real alternative they had.,
.
After Caisley went, the losses were brought under control - as they had to be, else the club would have gone under long ago. Some sembance fo financial stability was achieved, although we saw the consequences on the park and in the death-by-a-thousand-
cuts as key staff left and were not replaced. I warned for YEARS about the precarious financial position that had been inherited, and was generally ridiculed - what did I know? Well maybe a bit more than my detractors, it seems?
.
Things clearly went very badly wrong during 2011. But to suggest the club was wilfully living way beyond its means in recent years shows either ignorance of the facts or is downright disingenuous.
.
But if you choose not to believe any of that, just go read the accounts over the last ten years. Well worth it at £1 a set from Companies House. The story is there in plain sight for all to see. It always has been. As was the inevitability of running out of cash if ever income suffered a significant downturn, as of course it did because of the recession quite apart from other factors.
.
The Odsal settlement was not new money. It was the net present value of the future expenditure the council was committed to up to 2019. As it turned out, it was almost certainly an excellent deal for the council and a poor deal for the Bulls - even before (in the later Caisley years) most of it was spent, rather than being held back to cover future expenditure as was clearly intended.
.
And it is hardly the fault of the club, under both Caisley and Hood, that we never got a decent stadium. Both did their level best, as far as I can see, to try and bring that about. To this day, I cannot see why the Tesco scheme that would have funded the development was not able to proceed, supposedly because of the non-food component and its effect on the city centre? When shortly afterwards we saw a Matalan open on the Morrisons site a short walk away, a huge new Tesco open in a similar position just a bit further round the ring road, and permission granted for a huge rebuild of the Tesco site on Canal Road. And the city centre died anyway.
.
I suggest the fault for the Bulls not having been able to bring about what Saints, Wire and others did lies other than with the club.
.
And I credit Guilfoyle with nothing. I believe he was the wrong man for the job. Do you really think he is the one who has conjured up interest? But whether the interest was because of or in spite of him is something I guess the history books will record.
.
And it is the unpaid volunteer staff who are getting the club to the end of the season, not him. And the kind generosity of those fans and friends - including the Warrington club - who have contributed to the Bullbuilder hardhip fund to help them and their families.

Well said. I agree totally. Unfortunately there will still be comments on this site from people who have no idea of what has gone on at the club over the last 10 or so years. But there again it is a blog.

well said adey bull totally agree

Excellent post Adeybull. Some people know the truth and others believe what the idiots tell them.

Think Thee Voice of reason should be re-named ...I like the sound of my own voice ......wants to give the impression that they give an impartial,balanced, alternate view to proceedings when in truth they are just another Bull bashing troll...........

Reading, couldn't agree more, said the same thing myself about tvor, and some folk on here, do believe what the trolls say. Wally Lewis, is one, publishing details, of a business plan, to coin a phrase, if he his genuine, what a Wally.

Reading, couldn't agree more, said the same thing myself about tvor, and some folk on here, do believe what the trolls say. Wally Lewis, is one, publishing details, of a business plan, to coin a phrase, if he his genuine, what a Wally.

Adeybull wrote:
Bingleymoor - sorry, but cannot agree with most of that.
.
The mangement team in recent years was too small and not paid enough. Catch 22 situation, with ultimately inevitable consequences. I saw with my own eyes how less money meant fewer capable staff meant less income meant less capable staff meant...so by the time the crash finally came we were left with a handful of very hard-working people with far too much on their shoulders.
.
The life of excess, if it ever was (and I would dispute that) was in the Caisley years after the return to Odsal, when the club was losing £600k per annum. Anyone remember that? I didn't see that being referred to by Camp Caisley anywhere. Yet they were doing their best to take the club forward. In the end, as you saw from his statement in the 2004 annual report, he blamed the fans for not turning out in ever-increasing numbers for the coming troubles which he himself in that report foretold. I suspect he was getting exasperated by then. I saw the man, in passing (not to speak), just after one of his last games, and a good win. His face was like thunder, and he was playing hell about how poor the crowd was.
.
But to the fans this was invisible, because - even though some of us were warning voices in the wilderness - the then - board was spending the OIdsal settlement money far far far faster than they should have been. And yet I cannot see what real alternative they had.,
.
After Caisley went, the losses were brought under control - as they had to be, else the club would have gone under long ago. Some sembance fo financial stability was achieved, although we saw the consequences on the park and in the death-by-a-thousand-

cuts as key staff left and were not replaced. I warned for YEARS about the precarious financial position that had been inherited, and was generally ridiculed - what did I know? Well maybe a bit more than my detractors, it seems?
.
Things clearly went very badly wrong during 2011. But to suggest the club was wilfully living way beyond its means in recent years shows either ignorance of the facts or is downright disingenuous.
.
But if you choose not to believe any of that, just go read the accounts over the last ten years. Well worth it at £1 a set from Companies House. The story is there in plain sight for all to see. It always has been. As was the inevitability of running out of cash if ever income suffered a significant downturn, as of course it did because of the recession quite apart from other factors.
.
The Odsal settlement was not new money. It was the net present value of the future expenditure the council was committed to up to 2019. As it turned out, it was almost certainly an excellent deal for the council and a poor deal for the Bulls - even before (in the later Caisley years) most of it was spent, rather than being held back to cover future expenditure as was clearly intended.
.
And it is hardly the fault of the club, under both Caisley and Hood, that we never got a decent stadium. Both did their level best, as far as I can see, to try and bring that about. To this day, I cannot see why the Tesco scheme that would have funded the development was not able to proceed, supposedly because of the non-food component and its effect on the city centre? When shortly afterwards we saw a Matalan open on the Morrisons site a short walk away, a huge new Tesco open in a similar position just a bit further round the ring road, and permission granted for a huge rebuild of the Tesco site on Canal Road. And the city centre died anyway.
.
I suggest the fault for the Bulls not having been able to bring about what Saints, Wire and others did lies other than with the club.
.
And I credit Guilfoyle with nothing. I believe he was the wrong man for the job. Do you really think he is the one who has conjured up interest? But whether the interest was because of or in spite of him is something I guess the history books will record.
.
And it is the unpaid volunteer staff who are getting the club to the end of the season, not him. And the kind generosity of those fans and friends - including the Warrington club - who have contributed to the Bullbuilder hardhip fund to help them and their families.

That's a good and thoughtful insight into how things were Adey.
I actually suspect that all sporting clubs are in a financial mishmash, with debts on an the ebb and flow tide.
ie hand to mouth, and fingertip control every year.

What people forget is that Sports clubs are like showbusiness.
They exist to entertain large numbers of people every week.

For example we at the Bulls have seen the demise of our playing fortunes for the sake of what some might say is/was financial prudence.

Many years ago the situation was different in that if your team lost, at least you didn't have to pay winning pay...and I have heard that said, albeit tongue in cheek by the person who said it..But I would not wish to go back to those days!
AKA Championship 1.

To get back to the main thrust of my two pennorth. A sports club relies solely on 3 things: Sales, to sell the concept of the game-the team-the merchandise, and the game day experience, to make a profit for the club. Marketing: To get out to the communities both in the city and a wider audience when able.To set up the game day experience to entertain the clients. To interact with the media, TV and all journalists to put the results of your club through the media PR machines, as being somewhere you would wish to take your families to. Financial: Is to look after the business and it's overall profitability, whilst maintaining the thing that brings about all that, ie BUMS on SEATS.

So control of Marketing and Sales = Good management and overall profitability. Easy to say almost impossible to get right if you don't have a big enough experienced team around you, so your first point Adey was the most insightful and like having only two directors after the mass exodus of directors in 2011, it put the seal on a decline in fortunes, that now sees us at this crossroads. Hopefully our new owners will realise what is needed to get our show back on the road.

Of course this is a simple model, as you know it's far more complex than that.

Adeybull wrote:
Bingleymoor - sorry, but cannot agree with most of that. . The mangement team in recent years was too small and not paid enough. Catch 22 situation, with ultimately inevitable consequences. I saw with my own eyes how less money meant fewer capable staff meant less income meant less capable staff meant...so by the time the crash finally came we were left with a handful of very hard-working people with far too much on their shoulders. . The life of excess, if it ever was (and I would dispute that) was in the Caisley years after the return to Odsal, when the club was losing £600k per annum. Anyone remember that? I didn't see that being referred to by Camp Caisley anywhere. Yet they were doing their best to take the club forward. In the end, as you saw from his statement in the 2004 annual report, he blamed the fans for not turning out in ever-increasing numbers for the coming troubles which he himself in that report foretold. I suspect he was getting exasperated by then. I saw the man, in passing (not to speak), just after one of his last games, and a good win. His face was like thunder, and he was playing hell about how poor the crowd was. . But to the fans this was invisible, because - even though some of us were warning voices in the wilderness - the then - board was spending the OIdsal settlement money far far far faster than they should have been. And yet I cannot see what real alternative they had., . After Caisley went, the losses were brought under control - as they had to be, else the club would have gone under long ago. Some sembance fo financial stability was achieved, although we saw the consequences on the park and in the death-by-a-thousand- cuts as key staff left and were not replaced. I warned for YEARS about the precarious financial position that had been inherited, and was generally ridiculed - what did I know? Well maybe a bit more than my detractors, it seems? . Things clearly went very badly wrong during 2011. But to suggest the club was wilfully living way beyond its means in recent years shows either ignorance of the facts or is downright disingenuous. . But if you choose not to believe any of that, just go read the accounts over the last ten years. Well worth it at £1 a set from Companies House. The story is there in plain sight for all to see. It always has been. As was the inevitability of running out of cash if ever income suffered a significant downturn, as of course it did because of the recession quite apart from other factors. . The Odsal settlement was not new money. It was the net present value of the future expenditure the council was committed to up to 2019. As it turned out, it was almost certainly an excellent deal for the council and a poor deal for the Bulls - even before (in the later Caisley years) most of it was spent, rather than being held back to cover future expenditure as was clearly intended. . And it is hardly the fault of the club, under both Caisley and Hood, that we never got a decent stadium. Both did their level best, as far as I can see, to try and bring that about. To this day, I cannot see why the Tesco scheme that would have funded the development was not able to proceed, supposedly because of the non-food component and its effect on the city centre? When shortly afterwards we saw a Matalan open on the Morrisons site a short walk away, a huge new Tesco open in a similar position just a bit further round the ring road, and permission granted for a huge rebuild of the Tesco site on Canal Road. And the city centre died anyway. . I suggest the fault for the Bulls not having been able to bring about what Saints, Wire and others did lies other than with the club. . And I credit Guilfoyle with nothing. I believe he was the wrong man for the job. Do you really think he is the one who has conjured up interest? But whether the interest was because of or in spite of him is something I guess the history books will record. . And it is the unpaid volunteer staff who are getting the club to the end of the season, not him. And the kind generosity of those fans and friends - including the Warrington club - who have contributed to the Bullbuilder hardhip fund to help them and their families.

Excellent post Adey.

You are very bitter and I feel your frustrastion.

I have said all along the management financially has been poor for ten years.

The accounts do not lie.

The problem going forward is how can the Bulls expect support from the council when they have already stumoed up 8 million (My research from the T & A august 2002 says 5).

It has been blown.

Success was bought with it.

Hood has tried to be prudent it would appear but you are right something has gone badly wrong in the last two years.

Its obvious to all highly trained accountants as myself and BG where that is.

A 3 million wages bill and a paupers income.

Where the budget was to LOSE 1.2 million.

Financial suicide.

BCFC have stabalised from the dream chasing nonsense of the early noughties.

Contracts are not given until they know how much is in from season ticket sales.

Thank god the bulls players do not need paying beyond the end of November.

Thank god Nigel Wood is tasked with a review of Super League that hopefully will result in the stopping of these ridiculous scenarios.

Only one team can win Super League.
#
Indeed only 4 teams have ever won it.

Why would CC want to get back involved?

It is a constant worry to survive.

The ground could only be seriously developed with serious money beyond Bradfordians.

I sincerely hope this has a happy end and the RFl make Odsal their headquarters with a plan to develop it for their tournamonts with the rehashed Bulls as tenants.

Because ABCDEFGHIJK and Tom cobb will never have the inclination or funds.

BCFC might.

The mechanno set fabulous stands they have could be moved.I understand Gibb would sell.At only 3 or 4 million.

Who knows what will happen there are so many with a different interest and agenda.

Are you connected to Wally Lewis bid Adey.
through Bullbuilder i hope.

Because if you are I am pleased if not you shoukl be.

Its men like you that will drag this thing back up.
Where young talent is nutured.

And the RFL has a duty to support that rather than pay expensive foreign imports.

The Olympics have shown what can be done.
who would have ever dreamed that Yorkshire would (maybe overtaken now)have had more golds than Australia who used to beat GB never mind Yorkshire.

Made in Yorkshire.
The future of the Bulls hopefully rather than Australia and New zealand..

Well done to all who have brought on the like of Bateman.

A Hood initiative I take it?

arhmen aleg wrote:

Adeybull wrote:
Bingleymoor - sorry, but cannot agree with most of that. . The mangement team in recent years was too small and not paid enough. Catch 22 situation, with ultimately inevitable consequences. I saw with my own eyes how less money meant fewer capable staff meant less income meant less capable staff meant...so by the time the crash finally came we were left with a handful of very hard-working people with far too much on their shoulders. . The life of excess, if it ever was (and I would dispute that) was in the Caisley years after the return to Odsal, when the club was losing £600k per annum. Anyone remember that? I didn't see that being referred to by Camp Caisley anywhere. Yet they were doing their best to take the club forward. In the end, as you saw from his statement in the 2004 annual report, he blamed the fans for not turning out in ever-increasing numbers for the coming troubles which he himself in that report foretold. I suspect he was getting exasperated by then. I saw the man, in passing (not to speak), just after one of his last games, and a good win. His face was like thunder, and he was playing hell about how poor the crowd was. . But to the fans this was invisible, because - even though some of us were warning voices in the wilderness - the then - board was spending the OIdsal settlement money far far far faster than they should have been. And yet I cannot see what real alternative they had., . After Caisley went, the losses were brought under control - as they had to be, else the club would have gone under long ago. Some sembance fo financial stability was achieved, although we saw the consequences on the park and in the death-by-a-thousand- cuts as key staff left and were not replaced. I warned for YEARS about the precarious financial position that had been inherited, and was generally ridiculed - what did I know? Well maybe a bit more than my detractors, it seems? . Things clearly went very badly wrong during 2011. But to suggest the club was wilfully living way beyond its means in recent years shows either ignorance of the facts or is downright disingenuous. . But if you choose not to believe any of that, just go read the accounts over the last ten years. Well worth it at £1 a set from Companies House. The story is there in plain sight for all to see. It always has been. As was the inevitability of running out of cash if ever income suffered a significant downturn, as of course it did because of the recession quite apart from other factors. . The Odsal settlement was not new money. It was the net present value of the future expenditure the council was committed to up to 2019. As it turned out, it was almost certainly an excellent deal for the council and a poor deal for the Bulls - even before (in the later Caisley years) most of it was spent, rather than being held back to cover future expenditure as was clearly intended. . And it is hardly the fault of the club, under both Caisley and Hood, that we never got a decent stadium. Both did their level best, as far as I can see, to try and bring that about. To this day, I cannot see why the Tesco scheme that would have funded the development was not able to proceed, supposedly because of the non-food component and its effect on the city centre? When shortly afterwards we saw a Matalan open on the Morrisons site a short walk away, a huge new Tesco open in a similar position just a bit further round the ring road, and permission granted for a huge rebuild of the Tesco site on Canal Road. And the city centre died anyway. . I suggest the fault for the Bulls not having been able to bring about what Saints, Wire and others did lies other than with the club. . And I credit Guilfoyle with nothing. I believe he was the wrong man for the job. Do you really think he is the one who has conjured up interest? But whether the interest was because of or in spite of him is something I guess the history books will record. . And it is the unpaid volunteer staff who are getting the club to the end of the season, not him. And the kind generosity of those fans and friends - including the Warrington club - who have contributed to the Bullbuilder hardhip fund to help them and their families.

Excellent post Adey.

You are very bitter and I feel your frustrastion.

I have said all along the management financially has been poor for ten years.

The accounts do not lie.

The problem going forward is how can the Bulls expect support from the council when they have already stumoed up 8 million (My research from the T & A august 2002 says 5).

It has been blown.

Success was bought with it.

Hood has tried to be prudent it would appear but you are right something has gone badly wrong in the last two years.

Its obvious to all highly trained accountants as myself and BG where that is.

A 3 million wages bill and a paupers income.

Where the budget was to LOSE 1.2 million.

Financial suicide.

BCFC have stabalised from the dream chasing nonsense of the early noughties.

Contracts are not given until they know how much is in from season ticket sales.

Thank god the bulls players do not need paying beyond the end of November.

Thank god Nigel Wood is tasked with a review of Super League that hopefully will result in the stopping of these ridiculous scenarios.

Only one team can win Super League.
#
Indeed only 4 teams have ever won it.

Why would CC want to get back involved?

It is a constant worry to survive.

The ground could only be seriously developed with serious money beyond Bradfordians.

I sincerely hope this has a happy end and the RFl make Odsal their headquarters with a plan to develop it for their tournamonts with the rehashed Bulls as tenants.

Because ABCDEFGHIJK and Tom cobb will never have the inclination or funds.

BCFC might.

The mechanno set fabulous stands they have could be moved.I understand Gibb would sell.At only 3 or 4 million.

Who knows what will happen there are so many with a different interest and agenda.

Are you connected to Wally Lewis bid Adey.
through Bullbuilder i hope.

Because if you are I am pleased if not you shoukl be.

Its men like you that will drag this thing back up.
Where young talent is nutured.

And the RFL has a duty to support that rather than pay expensive foreign imports.

The Olympics have shown what can be done.
who would have ever dreamed that Yorkshire would (maybe overtaken now)have had more golds than Australia who used to beat GB never mind Yorkshire.

Made in Yorkshire.
The future of the Bulls hopefully rather than Australia and New zealand..

Well done to all who have brought on the like of Bateman.

A Hood initiative I take it?

More than a couple of off the beam remarks. In fact a ggod few innocuous statements that bear scrutiny.

Nigel Wood is not the supremo (thank your god, whoever he is) to overllook the game, That task falls to the Chairman of SLE and SL. Maurice Watkins.
The Bulls wage bill is not 3 million. Never was and probably never will be.

Don't mistake Adey or BB for anything to do with Wally Lewis, he I suspect is part of a very ellaborate and cynical hoax, that is as malicious as it is believable in places.

Wouldn't knock what you are trying to impart though.

raisemeup wrote:

arhmen aleg wrote:

Adeybull wrote: Bingleymoor - sorry, but cannot agree with most of that. . The mangement team in recent years was too small and not paid enough. Catch 22 situation, with ultimately inevitable consequences. I saw with my own eyes how less money meant fewer capable staff meant less income meant less capable staff meant...so by the time the crash finally came we were left with a handful of very hard-working people with far too much on their shoulders. . The life of excess, if it ever was (and I would dispute that) was in the Caisley years after the return to Odsal, when the club was losing £600k per annum. Anyone remember that? I didn't see that being referred to by Camp Caisley anywhere. Yet they were doing their best to take the club forward. In the end, as you saw from his statement in the 2004 annual report, he blamed the fans for not turning out in ever-increasing numbers for the coming troubles which he himself in that report foretold. I suspect he was getting exasperated by then. I saw the man, in passing (not to speak), just after one of his last games, and a good win. His face was like thunder, and he was playing hell about how poor the crowd was. . But to the fans this was invisible, because - even though some of us were warning voices in the wilderness - the then - board was spending the OIdsal settlement money far far far faster than they should have been. And yet I cannot see what real alternative they had., . After Caisley went, the losses were brought under control - as they had to be, else the club would have gone under long ago. Some sembance fo financial stability was achieved, although we saw the consequences on the park and in the death-by-a-thousand- cuts as key staff left and were not replaced. I warned for YEARS about the precarious financial position that had been inherited, and was generally ridiculed - what did I know? Well maybe a bit more than my detractors, it seems? . Things clearly went very badly wrong during 2011. But to suggest the club was wilfully living way beyond its means in recent years shows either ignorance of the facts or is downright disingenuous. . But if you choose not to believe any of that, just go read the accounts over the last ten years. Well worth it at £1 a set from Companies House. The story is there in plain sight for all to see. It always has been. As was the inevitability of running out of cash if ever income suffered a significant downturn, as of course it did because of the recession quite apart from other factors. . The Odsal settlement was not new money. It was the net present value of the future expenditure the council was committed to up to 2019. As it turned out, it was almost certainly an excellent deal for the council and a poor deal for the Bulls - even before (in the later Caisley years) most of it was spent, rather than being held back to cover future expenditure as was clearly intended. . And it is hardly the fault of the club, under both Caisley and Hood, that we never got a decent stadium. Both did their level best, as far as I can see, to try and bring that about. To this day, I cannot see why the Tesco scheme that would have funded the development was not able to proceed, supposedly because of the non-food component and its effect on the city centre? When shortly afterwards we saw a Matalan open on the Morrisons site a short walk away, a huge new Tesco open in a similar position just a bit further round the ring road, and permission granted for a huge rebuild of the Tesco site on Canal Road. And the city centre died anyway. . I suggest the fault for the Bulls not having been able to bring about what Saints, Wire and others did lies other than with the club. . And I credit Guilfoyle with nothing. I believe he was the wrong man for the job. Do you really think he is the one who has conjured up interest? But whether the interest was because of or in spite of him is something I guess the history books will record. . And it is the unpaid volunteer staff who are getting the club to the end of the season, not him. And the kind generosity of those fans and friends - including the Warrington club - who have contributed to the Bullbuilder hardhip fund to help them and their families.

Excellent post Adey. You are very bitter and I feel your frustrastion. I have said all along the management financially has been poor for ten years. The accounts do not lie. The problem going forward is how can the Bulls expect support from the council when they have already stumoed up 8 million (My research from the T & A august 2002 says 5). It has been blown. Success was bought with it. Hood has tried to be prudent it would appear but you are right something has gone badly wrong in the last two years. Its obvious to all highly trained accountants as myself and BG where that is. A 3 million wages bill and a paupers income. Where the budget was to LOSE 1.2 million. Financial suicide. BCFC have stabalised from the dream chasing nonsense of the early noughties. Contracts are not given until they know how much is in from season ticket sales. Thank god the bulls players do not need paying beyond the end of November. Thank god Nigel Wood is tasked with a review of Super League that hopefully will result in the stopping of these ridiculous scenarios. Only one team can win Super League. # Indeed only 4 teams have ever won it. Why would CC want to get back involved? It is a constant worry to survive. The ground could only be seriously developed with serious money beyond Bradfordians. I sincerely hope this has a happy end and the RFl make Odsal their headquarters with a plan to develop it for their tournamonts with the rehashed Bulls as tenants. Because ABCDEFGHIJK and Tom cobb will never have the inclination or funds. BCFC might. The mechanno set fabulous stands they have could be moved.I understand Gibb would sell.At only 3 or 4 million. Who knows what will happen there are so many with a different interest and agenda. Are you connected to Wally Lewis bid Adey. through Bullbuilder i hope. Because if you are I am pleased if not you shoukl be. Its men like you that will drag this thing back up. Where young talent is nutured. And the RFL has a duty to support that rather than pay expensive foreign imports. The Olympics have shown what can be done. who would have ever dreamed that Yorkshire would (maybe overtaken now)have had more golds than Australia who used to beat GB never mind Yorkshire. Made in Yorkshire. The future of the Bulls hopefully rather than Australia and New zealand.. Well done to all who have brought on the like of Bateman. A Hood initiative I take it?

More than a couple of off the beam remarks. In fact a ggod few innocuous statements that bear scrutiny. Nigel Wood is not the supremo (thank your god, whoever he is) to overllook the game, That task falls to the Chairman of SLE and SL. Maurice Watkins. The Bulls wage bill is not 3 million. Never was and probably never will be. Don't mistake Adey or BB for anything to do with Wally Lewis, he I suspect is part of a very ellaborate and cynical hoax, that is as malicious as it is believable in places. Wouldn't knock what you are trying to impart though.

No problem.

I seem to recall that Brendan istated he inherited a wages monthly bill of 260000.

That is 3 million a year by my calculator.

You previously quoted 2.3 million was it?

Is that because they are not paid from December through to the preseason training?

I am only quoting what the administrater said 5 weeks ago.

I thought I read somewhere that big Nigel had the task of a root and branch review of super league.

Did he hire a jumbo to get to Australia?

There are so many with a legal interest in the situation it will take a Henry kissenger to sort whats best for all.

Did Caisley use the money that was meant to be from the council 10 years ago to maintain the ground until 2019,to build the Coral Stand anyone?

Yes. Some of it. Although the board as a whole was responsible, and I have never heard Hood say otherwise.
.
Clear with hindsight they should instead have leased it over as long a period as possible.

Raisemeup.

I dont have a god.

I am a white Bradfordian who grew up with Brian Noble and whilst I have not seen my friend for a few years now share the same hopes as we all should for all Bradford sport.

I was a ball boy at BPA from 66 to 70.

I still bleed every time I pass the Park Avenue site and desperately want the Bulls to survive and BCFC and BPA.

Situations like this pain me.
I have no god.

Indeed if someone asked me if they thought when we die thats it,the way I feel right now about Bradford I think I would say no.I think when were born thats it.

I"ve been wound up and angry for weeks over the potential loss of another of Bradfords sporting institutions.

Someones god willing will see us over the line

Reading Bullette wrote:
Excellent post Adeybull. Some people know the truth and others believe what the idiots tell them.

Don't say that about Adey!
Not long ago Adey was calling for Hood to become a peer of the realm, Duke Peter of Hood wasn't it Adey?
Then not long later, he suffered the biggest facepalm in the history of RLfans.

arhmen aleg wrote:
Raisemeup.

I dont have a god.

I am a white Bradfordian who grew up with Brian Noble and whilst I have not seen my friend for a few years now share the same hopes as we all should for all Bradford sport.

I was a ball boy at BPA from 66 to 70.

I still bleed every time I pass the Park Avenue site and desperately want the Bulls to survive and BCFC and BPA.

Situations like this pain me.
I have no god.

Indeed if someone asked me if they thought when we die thats it,the way I feel right now about Bradford I think I would say no.I think when were born thats it.

I"ve been wound up and angry for weeks over the potential loss of another of Bradfords sporting institutions.

Someones god willing will see us over the line

Seem to have got off on the wrong foot there arhem.
Never meant to put any question marks, over you or your obvious loyalty to the club.
The God quip is something I learnt to use as a non denomination conversation to a bigger audience.
eg "May your God go with you!" or "Thank whoever your God is!" so don't read too much into that.

The wages bill, is only because I extrapulated what was 2010/11 reported figure of total wages paid of £2.25M, but the cost of Sales was £3.1 m and a gross profit of £850k was reported. What happened between gross and net was another story.
So BGs quote of £260k per month would have been ridiculous, as a 25% increase in wages over a season would be financial suicide. But knowing how things seemed to have gone you may be right?

I haven't a lot of faith in Nigel Woods overeseeing the RFL, mainly because he has an onerous task as the CEO who, like Ryan Duckett was at the Bulls was doing everything.
(other reasons we won't go into)

AS for Wally Lewis, I do suspect the whole situation with his posts on a forum, if anyone is in a sensitive buying and selling scenario you don't discuss it with anyone in that manner.

Just think what some of the numpty heads we get on this forum would misconstrue with that.

Like you though I feel deeply for our club, and despair for the future of our kids in a city that seems uncaring about the values that good quality sporting clubs in well funded sports stadiums can instill for their lifetime. They are the values we took for granted in our youth. And we would dearly love to re create.
to quote Winston Churchill who said>

"What good is living, if we don't make the lives of future generations, better!"

(not exact quote)

Sorry if you felt I was being over critical of your post.


PS I also know Brian well, he's a decent bloke, and he certainly would never do anything to hurt the club, or Mick Potter.

You two, your not on your own here. There at least another 10k supporters who feel the same way, at both pro clubs. To look it in the round, both clubs are part of the history of Bradford and their sport. City, in the record books, first winners of the present FA cup. Northern, first team to appear in three consecutive finals at Wembley. Need I go one. There is no argument that if either , god forbid, went, the vacuum created would be catastrophic. This is not a local thing it is nationwide, a indictment of sport today. A time when money is god, and we feed that god, every Saturday and Sunday, throughout the uk. Give me the old days, when the clubs were owned by local business men, prime example Bob Lord, Burnley. The lads that played were local, had a pride in the team, rarely moved away, one team men. Money wasn't the driver, it was the need to give the locals something to be proud of. Both City and Bulls/Northern have done that for their supporters over the years. In mind like City, we need local owners, someone who wants to give something back, rather than take something out. I could wax lyrical for hours on this LOCAL thing. Why are kids to day like they are, ask the PCers, who got contact sports banned in schools and youthies. Ask the teachers who will not turn out on a Saturday morning so their school kids can play football/rugby, as we used to. Ask the councils why they shut down , kids nowhere to go on a night. Is there any wonder sport, as whole in this country, is not up to the standard of the rest of the world in some fields. End of rant, I could go on but the t n a would have to bring out a special edition.

theviking62 wrote:
You two, your not on your own here. There at least another 10k supporters who feel the same way, at both pro clubs. To look it in the round, both clubs are part of the history of Bradford and their sport. City, in the record books, first winners of the present FA cup. Northern, first team to appear in three consecutive finals at Wembley. Need I go one. There is no argument that if either , god forbid, went, the vacuum created would be catastrophic. This is not a local thing it is nationwide, a indictment of sport today. A time when money is god, and we feed that god, every Saturday and Sunday, throughout the uk. Give me the old days, when the clubs were owned by local business men, prime example Bob Lord, Burnley. The lads that played were local, had a pride in the team, rarely moved away, one team men. Money wasn't the driver, it was the need to give the locals something to be proud of. Both City and Bulls/Northern have done that for their supporters over the years. In mind like City, we need local owners, someone who wants to give something back, rather than take something out. I could wax lyrical for hours on this LOCAL thing. Why are kids to day like they are, ask the PCers, who got contact sports banned in schools and youthies. Ask the teachers who will not turn out on a Saturday morning so their school kids can play football/rugby, as we used to. Ask the councils why they shut down , kids nowhere to go on a night. Is there any wonder sport, as whole in this country, is not up to the standard of the rest of the world in some fields. End of rant, I could go on but the t n a would have to bring out a special edition.

Well said.

And now my team BPA are facing expensive legal costs to defend their licence where the police seek to strip it this thursday.

No income no club.
they cater for under 7 through to open age.

The police licencing officer has told the biggest pack of lies in regard to events of 6 may.

She told me this week before terminating the call she had no wish to close BPA.
And her statement implies they are more interested in profit than public safety.

I am incensed at the lies read.

I am referring it to police complaints and the allegation is maliscious falsehood.

She is after her pips.

There were 3 ejections on 6 may.
All after 120 minutes of play after avenue scored.
Those ejected were 20 yards from the bar.

The police who were there in numbers were never required to enter the ground.

Stewards dealt with the abuse fine.

The only arrest.A POLICE OFFICER FROM MANCHESTER FOR RACIALLY AGGRAVATED PUBLIC ORDER OFFENCES>

The licensing officer fails to mention the fact that he was a policeman in her statement.

2000 people there a very tense last hour made worse for FC fans with news that MAN UTD had effectively blown the leagu with Man City winning.

At the end of the game 1000 mancunians walked the length of the Horsfall running track many arms raised and turned to the BPA pensioners and clapped all the way with mutual respect.

Brou7ght tears to my eyes that humanity exists.

Read the snotty PC "s report on line in the councils committee web and you would have thought it was a return to the hooligan infested 70"s.

THe police in Bradford have lost control of the City.
So tey are now resorting to picking on voluntary organisations as BPA>

Yes your right.Thatcher stopped paying teachers for saturday morning out of school sport.

So the sport stopped.

And clubds as BPA BCFC and the BULLS along with many other small local clubs struggle admirably to keep a few from drifting into bad things.

I was lucy enough to attend Bradford Police Boys Club (with Nobby)

I learnt more about life fom the great Trevor Foster than any self serving incompetent vindictive police officer can offer.

All BUlls fans are invited to make representation on line to the licensing commitee.

Many Avenue fans pledged to save the Bulls.
Indeed they raiosed money for the pledge.


the police are an absolute joke in this.

Kevin Hainsworth does everything at BPA to ensure things run smooth.

And never takes a penny.

Indeed he has stuck tens of thousands of his life savings wit Dr John dean to ensure the4 club survives.

Watch the T & A and national newspapers for an arising story in reponse to this disgracefull action and performance of the police.

Bradford is a terryfying place these days.

And they seek to close a small safe haven down.

I am reviewing whether the statement is so bad there could be a case to answer for corruption in public office.

It will not go anywhere but may bring to a head the woefull performance generally of West Yorkshire police in relation to Bradford.


Anyone ele got any horror stories about woefull police performance.

Sorry those ejected (3) from Manchester were 120 yards from the bar.

You say a manc pc, was arrested. Bet your bottom dollar, he's the one who complained to licensing. Make a check, to see if he was disciplined by gmp. If not you may have case, against police and licensing. Don't fall for the " he was there under cover story. "

theviking62 wrote:
You say a manc pc, was arrested. Bet your bottom dollar, he's the one who complained to licensing. Make a check, to see if he was disciplined by gmp. If not you may have case, against police and licensing. Don't fall for the " he was there under cover story. "

Well the officer Dawson states much in her statement as she was there.

The off duty officer was probably piss8d and made a comment he may live to regret.

to his own colleagues or stewards.

Bradford really has become something of a sick joke.

The officer should have been severely censured by his senior officers.

theviking62 wrote:
The officer should have been severely censured by his senior officers.

Agreed or charged.

But to refer to it (without mentioning that the culprit was a police officer)in the statement to support the application to strip the clubs license is beneath contempt.

and corrupt manipulation and abuse of public office.

And if the police will not charge when such behaviour occurs it makes a mockery of the 4 licensing objectives that they say BPA are not upholding.

1.Prevetion of crime and disorder
2.Public safety
3.Prevention of public nuisance
4.Protection of children from harm.


So there was one arrest.A police officer.

who no doubt was not charged because the police protect their own.

So what hope have BPA got in upholding the objectives if strong deterrent action is not taken by the police when they have evidence of this sort of behaviour.

where no evidence is presented anyway that the police officer drank to be behaving in the manner he did in BPA"s bar.

God bless Milly Dowler and her heart broken parents.

i wish on those police officers who sold the information to allow them to have false hope that she was still alive,through the NOW been able to wipe her mobiles voicemail messages when full,PERDITION.

HELL AWAITS PEOPLE IN PUBLIC OFFICE WHO ARE DEVOID OF ANY MORAL COMPASS IN PURSUIT OF THE CROOKED DOLLAR>

This is way off topic, but as I was there I will comment.

FCUM brought 1,000 fans. They were noisy and passionate, but mostly very well behaved. Yes, there were a few who were off their heads with drink, but a very small minority.

99% behaved with the utmost dignity, and at the end, after Tom Greaves's winner for BPA, they first applauded their own team, and then walked past and applauded the Avenue fans. There may have been the odd incident, but no hint of mass disorder. The police seem to be unfamiliar with the way things are in semi-pro football.

But maybe BPA should take a reconcilatory line with the police, and agree to "be more careful in future". It's no good winding them up - we need them onside if we're ever going to host Conference football at Horsfall.

trueBradfordian wrote:
This is way off topic, but as I was there I will comment. FCUM brought 1,000 fans. They were noisy and passionate, but mostly very well behaved. Yes, there were a few who were off their heads with drink, but a very small minority. 99% behaved with the utmost dignity, and at the end, after Tom Greaves's winner for BPA, they first applauded their own team, and then walked past and applauded the Avenue fans. There may have been the odd incident, but no hint of mass disorder. The police seem to be unfamiliar with the way things are in semi-pro football. But maybe BPA should take a reconcilatory line with the police, and agree to "be more careful in future". It's no good winding them up - we need them onside if we're ever going to host Conference football at Horsfall.

Your right but the officers statement reads like shes out to completely nail them and is full of contemptuos lie.

Dreadfull woman with a grudge about something.