Picket lines formed as public sector pensions protest gets underway

Picket lines have formed at many locations across the district as striking public sector employees take to the streets.

In Bradford city centre, protesters waving GMB and Unison placards have gathered outside City Hall, near the law courts and outside other public buildings.

A picket line has also formed outside Bradford Royal Infirmary.

Striking NHS staff were manning picket lines at all seven entrances to Bradford Royal Infirmary this morning.

Radiographers and physiotherapists joined support staff, cleaners and canteen workers who walked out in a row over pension changes.

Members of Unison and Unite were planning to picket the hospital gates all day, while some were to join the rally in Centenary Square in the city centre later this morning.

Jackie Smith, Unison branch secretary for Bradford health said the support had been fantastic so far this morning.

"If the Government had asked me to put money into the pension because it was unaffordable I would have done that, but our scheme is affordable now as it was reviewed about four years ago and our contributions increased.

"The money they want to take off us now wouldn't go into the pension scheme, it would go to the Treasury - and I object to being taxed for working for the NHS."

Thousands of children are staying home today as teachers and heads take to picket lines, forcing schools to close their doors.

Comments (162)

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9:57am Wed 30 Nov 11

angry bradfordian says...

'I object to being taxed for working for the NHS'

I work for a private company and get taxed to pay for the NHS, Social Security, Defence, Infrastructure etc etc- that's how tax works.
Perhaps Jackie Smith would like to suggest who she expects to pay for her pension. No doubt that will be the bankers again.
'I object to being taxed for working for the NHS' I work for a private company and get taxed to pay for the NHS, Social Security, Defence, Infrastructure etc etc- that's how tax works. Perhaps Jackie Smith would like to suggest who she expects to pay for her pension. No doubt that will be the bankers again. angry bradfordian

10:09am Wed 30 Nov 11

Old Peculiar says...

If you think that striking will get you support from the general public, you are very very much mistaken.
Get back to work, you pathetic, bone idle, any excuse for a day off, whinging wasters.
The sooner you wake up, and realise that eveything isn't rosy in our green and pleasant financial garden, the better for us all ; especially our children, who are having ANOTHER day of NO EDUCATION at your expense.
If you think that striking will get you support from the general public, you are very very much mistaken. Get back to work, you pathetic, bone idle, any excuse for a day off, whinging wasters. The sooner you wake up, and realise that eveything isn't rosy in our green and pleasant financial garden, the better for us all ; especially our children, who are having ANOTHER day of NO EDUCATION at your expense. Old Peculiar

10:12am Wed 30 Nov 11

Joedavid says...

T&A can you do an article on these peoples pensions and how they compare to those of us who are in normal employment and our pension schemes.
Because our impression is they work less years and pay less in per month yet get decent pensions when they retire.
T&A can you do an article on these peoples pensions and how they compare to those of us who are in normal employment and our pension schemes. Because our impression is they work less years and pay less in per month yet get decent pensions when they retire. Joedavid

10:12am Wed 30 Nov 11

Thee Voice of Reason says...

Do the people striking realise that those who are the lower paid won't be required to pay more in contributions or have contributions capped or have they been fed some yarn from the union reps?
.
The fact canteen staff and cleaners are joining the strikes along with bin men suggests we have either some highly paid canteen staff, cleaners and bin men or they are being told by the unions they are going to be effected by changes that really won't effect them.
Do the people striking realise that those who are the lower paid won't be required to pay more in contributions or have contributions capped or have they been fed some yarn from the union reps? . The fact canteen staff and cleaners are joining the strikes along with bin men suggests we have either some highly paid canteen staff, cleaners and bin men or they are being told by the unions they are going to be effected by changes that really won't effect them. Thee Voice of Reason

10:20am Wed 30 Nov 11

thepointis says...

All that you pay the public servants pay they pay tax too ...they pay for their own pensions .
Lets sack the person who works next to YOU and you can do his work...then we will increase what you have to pay for your pension and make it so you have to work an extra 5 or 6 years...and as a bonus when you get your pension it will be worth 25 percent less....yaaay .
Oh wait a minute in the mean time we are going to give you 90 days notice then sack you and rehire you but on less money .
What do you expect them to do sit there and take it ? if so go and buy a pair of extra long slippers and a red nose i have the perfect job for you.
All that you pay the public servants pay they pay tax too ...they pay for their own pensions . Lets sack the person who works next to YOU and you can do his work...then we will increase what you have to pay for your pension and make it so you have to work an extra 5 or 6 years...and as a bonus when you get your pension it will be worth 25 percent less....yaaay . Oh wait a minute in the mean time we are going to give you 90 days notice then sack you and rehire you but on less money . What do you expect them to do sit there and take it ? if so go and buy a pair of extra long slippers and a red nose i have the perfect job for you. thepointis

10:28am Wed 30 Nov 11

angry bradfordian says...

thepointis wrote:
All that you pay the public servants pay they pay tax too ...they pay for their own pensions .
Lets sack the person who works next to YOU and you can do his work...then we will increase what you have to pay for your pension and make it so you have to work an extra 5 or 6 years...and as a bonus when you get your pension it will be worth 25 percent less....yaaay .
Oh wait a minute in the mean time we are going to give you 90 days notice then sack you and rehire you but on less money .
What do you expect them to do sit there and take it ? if so go and buy a pair of extra long slippers and a red nose i have the perfect job for you.
Everybody is having to work 5 or 6 years longer, as we're all living at least 10 years longer than we used to do.
To try and keep a retirement age at 60 because 'it's what's always happened' is ludicrous. Working on that logic we'd never have brought in the minimum wage, got the working time regulations or flexible childcare because it's how it's always been.
These workers seem to want to pick & choose what stays the same.
[quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: All that you pay the public servants pay they pay tax too ...they pay for their own pensions . Lets sack the person who works next to YOU and you can do his work...then we will increase what you have to pay for your pension and make it so you have to work an extra 5 or 6 years...and as a bonus when you get your pension it will be worth 25 percent less....yaaay . Oh wait a minute in the mean time we are going to give you 90 days notice then sack you and rehire you but on less money . What do you expect them to do sit there and take it ? if so go and buy a pair of extra long slippers and a red nose i have the perfect job for you.[/p][/quote]Everybody is having to work 5 or 6 years longer, as we're all living at least 10 years longer than we used to do. To try and keep a retirement age at 60 because 'it's what's always happened' is ludicrous. Working on that logic we'd never have brought in the minimum wage, got the working time regulations or flexible childcare because it's how it's always been. These workers seem to want to pick & choose what stays the same. angry bradfordian

10:34am Wed 30 Nov 11

angry bradfordian says...

What on earth is this 'Public Sector Strikes- Latest' all about.
It seems to be a page to send in photos of demonstrations & placards and has quotes from union leaders.
Where are the opposing views? Are there going to be photos of people who've been disrupted, are there going to be views of people opposed to it or has the T&A suddenly become a left-wing newspaper by stealth?
What on earth is this 'Public Sector Strikes- Latest' all about. It seems to be a page to send in photos of demonstrations & placards and has quotes from union leaders. Where are the opposing views? Are there going to be photos of people who've been disrupted, are there going to be views of people opposed to it or has the T&A suddenly become a left-wing newspaper by stealth? angry bradfordian

10:39am Wed 30 Nov 11

bradfordian says...

I fully support the strikers. This government have cut more public sector jobs than any other job, fact.. When you have lost your services you wi have no right to compain. You cannot have it both ways.
I fully support the strikers. This government have cut more public sector jobs than any other job, fact.. When you have lost your services you wi have no right to compain. You cannot have it both ways. bradfordian

10:44am Wed 30 Nov 11

Mutha.Slimer says...

Joedavid wrote:
T&A can you do an article on these peoples pensions and how they compare to those of us who are in normal employment and our pension schemes. Because our impression is they work less years and pay less in per month yet get decent pensions when they retire.
Well said, I am now working more hours and being paid less than I was 3 years ago and my pension has all but gone down the sh1tter but dont expect the T&A to show a BALANCED view!!
[quote][p][bold]Joedavid[/bold] wrote: T&A can you do an article on these peoples pensions and how they compare to those of us who are in normal employment and our pension schemes. Because our impression is they work less years and pay less in per month yet get decent pensions when they retire.[/p][/quote]Well said, I am now working more hours and being paid less than I was 3 years ago and my pension has all but gone down the sh1tter but dont expect the T&A to show a BALANCED view!! Mutha.Slimer

10:45am Wed 30 Nov 11

thepointis says...

angry bradfordian wrote:
thepointis wrote:
All that you pay the public servants pay they pay tax too ...they pay for their own pensions .
Lets sack the person who works next to YOU and you can do his work...then we will increase what you have to pay for your pension and make it so you have to work an extra 5 or 6 years...and as a bonus when you get your pension it will be worth 25 percent less....yaaay .
Oh wait a minute in the mean time we are going to give you 90 days notice then sack you and rehire you but on less money .
What do you expect them to do sit there and take it ? if so go and buy a pair of extra long slippers and a red nose i have the perfect job for you.
Everybody is having to work 5 or 6 years longer, as we're all living at least 10 years longer than we used to do.
To try and keep a retirement age at 60 because 'it's what's always happened' is ludicrous. Working on that logic we'd never have brought in the minimum wage, got the working time regulations or flexible childcare because it's how it's always been.
These workers seem to want to pick & choose what stays the same.
Do you include the mps ? the bankers ?
And your minimum wage point ..utterley ridiculous and small minded.
[quote][p][bold]angry bradfordian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: All that you pay the public servants pay they pay tax too ...they pay for their own pensions . Lets sack the person who works next to YOU and you can do his work...then we will increase what you have to pay for your pension and make it so you have to work an extra 5 or 6 years...and as a bonus when you get your pension it will be worth 25 percent less....yaaay . Oh wait a minute in the mean time we are going to give you 90 days notice then sack you and rehire you but on less money . What do you expect them to do sit there and take it ? if so go and buy a pair of extra long slippers and a red nose i have the perfect job for you.[/p][/quote]Everybody is having to work 5 or 6 years longer, as we're all living at least 10 years longer than we used to do. To try and keep a retirement age at 60 because 'it's what's always happened' is ludicrous. Working on that logic we'd never have brought in the minimum wage, got the working time regulations or flexible childcare because it's how it's always been. These workers seem to want to pick & choose what stays the same.[/p][/quote]Do you include the mps ? the bankers ? And your minimum wage point ..utterley ridiculous and small minded. thepointis

10:48am Wed 30 Nov 11

moanmoanwhingewhinge says...

Old Peculiar wrote:
If you think that striking will get you support from the general public, you are very very much mistaken.
Get back to work, you pathetic, bone idle, any excuse for a day off, whinging wasters.
The sooner you wake up, and realise that eveything isn't rosy in our green and pleasant financial garden, the better for us all ; especially our children, who are having ANOTHER day of NO EDUCATION at your expense.
And your working hard today are you?? Why not research exactly why these people feel forced into action, in order to give a reasoned argument, rather than just hysterically spouting whatever crap you've read in the Daily Mail, you pathetic, whingeing, Tory loving tw@
[quote][p][bold]Old Peculiar[/bold] wrote: If you think that striking will get you support from the general public, you are very very much mistaken. Get back to work, you pathetic, bone idle, any excuse for a day off, whinging wasters. The sooner you wake up, and realise that eveything isn't rosy in our green and pleasant financial garden, the better for us all ; especially our children, who are having ANOTHER day of NO EDUCATION at your expense.[/p][/quote]And your working hard today are you?? Why not research exactly why these people feel forced into action, in order to give a reasoned argument, rather than just hysterically spouting whatever crap you've read in the Daily Mail, you pathetic, whingeing, Tory loving tw@ moanmoanwhingewhinge

10:49am Wed 30 Nov 11

Thee Voice of Reason says...

bradfordian wrote:
I fully support the strikers. This government have cut more public sector jobs than any other job, fact.. When you have lost your services you wi have no right to compain. You cannot have it both ways.
What kind of stupid comment is that.
.
"This government have cut more public sector jobs than any other job"
.
The government as the employer can only cut public sector jobs, it can't walk into the private sector and start sacking those people can it?
.
Anyhow the strikes are not about the cutting of jobs, it the people with jobs who are striking because they are being asked to change to terms which are more affordable to the country as a whole. It's not about cutting jobs.
[quote][p][bold]bradfordian[/bold] wrote: I fully support the strikers. This government have cut more public sector jobs than any other job, fact.. When you have lost your services you wi have no right to compain. You cannot have it both ways.[/p][/quote]What kind of stupid comment is that. . "This government have cut more public sector jobs than any other job" . The government as the employer can only cut public sector jobs, it can't walk into the private sector and start sacking those people can it? . Anyhow the strikes are not about the cutting of jobs, it the people with jobs who are striking because they are being asked to change to terms which are more affordable to the country as a whole. It's not about cutting jobs. Thee Voice of Reason

10:49am Wed 30 Nov 11

angry bradfordian says...

bradfordian wrote:
I fully support the strikers. This government have cut more public sector jobs than any other job, fact.. When you have lost your services you wi have no right to compain. You cannot have it both ways.
This isn't meant to be a strike over job cuts- it's only meant to be about pensions.

It's also worth remembering that the number of people working in the public sector has dramatically risen over the last 15 years- something that make the paradox of reduced public services (which there have undoubtedly been) more difficult to understand.
[quote][p][bold]bradfordian[/bold] wrote: I fully support the strikers. This government have cut more public sector jobs than any other job, fact.. When you have lost your services you wi have no right to compain. You cannot have it both ways.[/p][/quote]This isn't meant to be a strike over job cuts- it's only meant to be about pensions. It's also worth remembering that the number of people working in the public sector has dramatically risen over the last 15 years- something that make the paradox of reduced public services (which there have undoubtedly been) more difficult to understand. angry bradfordian

10:56am Wed 30 Nov 11

angry bradfordian says...

thepointis wrote:
angry bradfordian wrote:
thepointis wrote:
All that you pay the public servants pay they pay tax too ...they pay for their own pensions .
Lets sack the person who works next to YOU and you can do his work...then we will increase what you have to pay for your pension and make it so you have to work an extra 5 or 6 years...and as a bonus when you get your pension it will be worth 25 percent less....yaaay .
Oh wait a minute in the mean time we are going to give you 90 days notice then sack you and rehire you but on less money .
What do you expect them to do sit there and take it ? if so go and buy a pair of extra long slippers and a red nose i have the perfect job for you.
Everybody is having to work 5 or 6 years longer, as we're all living at least 10 years longer than we used to do.
To try and keep a retirement age at 60 because 'it's what's always happened' is ludicrous. Working on that logic we'd never have brought in the minimum wage, got the working time regulations or flexible childcare because it's how it's always been.
These workers seem to want to pick & choose what stays the same.
Do you include the mps ? the bankers ?
And your minimum wage point ..utterley ridiculous and small minded.
Why would I include MP's?- there are a grand total of 650 of them in a population of 60 million- I agree they should only get a pension at 65/66/67 like the rest of us.
As for bankers, they can take their pension when they like as they've been putting their own money into in from money paid to them from a private company.

My example of the minimum wage was to highlight the union's apparant demand to keep things the same. If it's an acceptable theory for pensions, why change any laws, conditions or systems?
[quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]angry bradfordian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: All that you pay the public servants pay they pay tax too ...they pay for their own pensions . Lets sack the person who works next to YOU and you can do his work...then we will increase what you have to pay for your pension and make it so you have to work an extra 5 or 6 years...and as a bonus when you get your pension it will be worth 25 percent less....yaaay . Oh wait a minute in the mean time we are going to give you 90 days notice then sack you and rehire you but on less money . What do you expect them to do sit there and take it ? if so go and buy a pair of extra long slippers and a red nose i have the perfect job for you.[/p][/quote]Everybody is having to work 5 or 6 years longer, as we're all living at least 10 years longer than we used to do. To try and keep a retirement age at 60 because 'it's what's always happened' is ludicrous. Working on that logic we'd never have brought in the minimum wage, got the working time regulations or flexible childcare because it's how it's always been. These workers seem to want to pick & choose what stays the same.[/p][/quote]Do you include the mps ? the bankers ? And your minimum wage point ..utterley ridiculous and small minded.[/p][/quote]Why would I include MP's?- there are a grand total of 650 of them in a population of 60 million- I agree they should only get a pension at 65/66/67 like the rest of us. As for bankers, they can take their pension when they like as they've been putting their own money into in from money paid to them from a private company. My example of the minimum wage was to highlight the union's apparant demand to keep things the same. If it's an acceptable theory for pensions, why change any laws, conditions or systems? angry bradfordian

10:58am Wed 30 Nov 11

thepointis says...

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
bradfordian wrote:
I fully support the strikers. This government have cut more public sector jobs than any other job, fact.. When you have lost your services you wi have no right to compain. You cannot have it both ways.
What kind of stupid comment is that.
.
"This government have cut more public sector jobs than any other job"
.
The government as the employer can only cut public sector jobs, it can't walk into the private sector and start sacking those people can it?
.
Anyhow the strikes are not about the cutting of jobs, it the people with jobs who are striking because they are being asked to change to terms which are more affordable to the country as a whole. It's not about cutting jobs.
The government though not as an employer has by its actions effectively cut many private sector jobs...why can you not see that ? are you an ice cream man ?
[quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bradfordian[/bold] wrote: I fully support the strikers. This government have cut more public sector jobs than any other job, fact.. When you have lost your services you wi have no right to compain. You cannot have it both ways.[/p][/quote]What kind of stupid comment is that. . "This government have cut more public sector jobs than any other job" . The government as the employer can only cut public sector jobs, it can't walk into the private sector and start sacking those people can it? . Anyhow the strikes are not about the cutting of jobs, it the people with jobs who are striking because they are being asked to change to terms which are more affordable to the country as a whole. It's not about cutting jobs.[/p][/quote]The government though not as an employer has by its actions effectively cut many private sector jobs...why can you not see that ? are you an ice cream man ? thepointis

11:00am Wed 30 Nov 11

Thee Voice of Reason says...

Didn't take long for the bankers to come up did it.
.
This needed to be done and if you want any proof in the matter look at how the Labour party are not standing behind the unions on this one, because they know they would have had to do the same, they just put it off in order to keep votes in the last election.
Didn't take long for the bankers to come up did it. . This needed to be done and if you want any proof in the matter look at how the Labour party are not standing behind the unions on this one, because they know they would have had to do the same, they just put it off in order to keep votes in the last election. Thee Voice of Reason

11:00am Wed 30 Nov 11

thepointis says...

angry bradfordian wrote:
thepointis wrote:
angry bradfordian wrote:
thepointis wrote:
All that you pay the public servants pay they pay tax too ...they pay for their own pensions .
Lets sack the person who works next to YOU and you can do his work...then we will increase what you have to pay for your pension and make it so you have to work an extra 5 or 6 years...and as a bonus when you get your pension it will be worth 25 percent less....yaaay .
Oh wait a minute in the mean time we are going to give you 90 days notice then sack you and rehire you but on less money .
What do you expect them to do sit there and take it ? if so go and buy a pair of extra long slippers and a red nose i have the perfect job for you.
Everybody is having to work 5 or 6 years longer, as we're all living at least 10 years longer than we used to do.
To try and keep a retirement age at 60 because 'it's what's always happened' is ludicrous. Working on that logic we'd never have brought in the minimum wage, got the working time regulations or flexible childcare because it's how it's always been.
These workers seem to want to pick & choose what stays the same.
Do you include the mps ? the bankers ?
And your minimum wage point ..utterley ridiculous and small minded.
Why would I include MP's?- there are a grand total of 650 of them in a population of 60 million- I agree they should only get a pension at 65/66/67 like the rest of us.
As for bankers, they can take their pension when they like as they've been putting their own money into in from money paid to them from a private company.

My example of the minimum wage was to highlight the union's apparant demand to keep things the same. If it's an acceptable theory for pensions, why change any laws, conditions or systems?
Why wouldnt you include mp's...? i think that says it all.....mines a ninety nine ..with chocolate sprinkles and nuts.
[quote][p][bold]angry bradfordian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]angry bradfordian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: All that you pay the public servants pay they pay tax too ...they pay for their own pensions . Lets sack the person who works next to YOU and you can do his work...then we will increase what you have to pay for your pension and make it so you have to work an extra 5 or 6 years...and as a bonus when you get your pension it will be worth 25 percent less....yaaay . Oh wait a minute in the mean time we are going to give you 90 days notice then sack you and rehire you but on less money . What do you expect them to do sit there and take it ? if so go and buy a pair of extra long slippers and a red nose i have the perfect job for you.[/p][/quote]Everybody is having to work 5 or 6 years longer, as we're all living at least 10 years longer than we used to do. To try and keep a retirement age at 60 because 'it's what's always happened' is ludicrous. Working on that logic we'd never have brought in the minimum wage, got the working time regulations or flexible childcare because it's how it's always been. These workers seem to want to pick & choose what stays the same.[/p][/quote]Do you include the mps ? the bankers ? And your minimum wage point ..utterley ridiculous and small minded.[/p][/quote]Why would I include MP's?- there are a grand total of 650 of them in a population of 60 million- I agree they should only get a pension at 65/66/67 like the rest of us. As for bankers, they can take their pension when they like as they've been putting their own money into in from money paid to them from a private company. My example of the minimum wage was to highlight the union's apparant demand to keep things the same. If it's an acceptable theory for pensions, why change any laws, conditions or systems?[/p][/quote]Why wouldnt you include mp's...? i think that says it all.....mines a ninety nine ..with chocolate sprinkles and nuts. thepointis

11:04am Wed 30 Nov 11

angry bradfordian says...

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
Didn't take long for the bankers to come up did it.
.
This needed to be done and if you want any proof in the matter look at how the Labour party are not standing behind the unions on this one, because they know they would have had to do the same, they just put it off in order to keep votes in the last election.
Yes, it seems to be an inconvenient truth to the protesters.
I read on the BBC website yesterday that 1/8 of all tax revenue comes from the finance industry taxes & levies (before the worker's tax) so they already contribute more than their fair share to the economy.
[quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: Didn't take long for the bankers to come up did it. . This needed to be done and if you want any proof in the matter look at how the Labour party are not standing behind the unions on this one, because they know they would have had to do the same, they just put it off in order to keep votes in the last election.[/p][/quote]Yes, it seems to be an inconvenient truth to the protesters. I read on the BBC website yesterday that 1/8 of all tax revenue comes from the finance industry taxes & levies (before the worker's tax) so they already contribute more than their fair share to the economy. angry bradfordian

11:05am Wed 30 Nov 11

flashdonut says...

thepointis wrote:
All that you pay the public servants pay they pay tax too ...they pay for their own pensions .
Lets sack the person who works next to YOU and you can do his work...then we will increase what you have to pay for your pension and make it so you have to work an extra 5 or 6 years...and as a bonus when you get your pension it will be worth 25 percent less....yaaay .
Oh wait a minute in the mean time we are going to give you 90 days notice then sack you and rehire you but on less money .
What do you expect them to do sit there and take it ? if so go and buy a pair of extra long slippers and a red nose i have the perfect job for you.
Errr. The recession forced my company to make redundancies. So I do have to do other peoples work. I have not had a pay rise in 4 years. We were also asked to take a 20% pay reduction every 3rd month to avoid more redundancies (this lasted for 14months) So I am worse off. A lot of of the Public Sector got a pay rise - even though there was a pay freeze. Because you moved up the scale in your payment band. I know this, because my sister is a teacher.
.
I took it. Because that is how the world is at the moment. Sure I want 3% pay increase every year, and I don't want to have to work 9 and a half hour days and Saturday mornings when I am contracted to a 39 hour week.
.
But when my alarm goes off, i wake up in 2011, in England. Not in a Fairy Tale or some make believe land.
The country (and the rst of the world more or less) is crocked. Admit it, except it, move on.
[quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: All that you pay the public servants pay they pay tax too ...they pay for their own pensions . Lets sack the person who works next to YOU and you can do his work...then we will increase what you have to pay for your pension and make it so you have to work an extra 5 or 6 years...and as a bonus when you get your pension it will be worth 25 percent less....yaaay . Oh wait a minute in the mean time we are going to give you 90 days notice then sack you and rehire you but on less money . What do you expect them to do sit there and take it ? if so go and buy a pair of extra long slippers and a red nose i have the perfect job for you.[/p][/quote]Errr. The recession forced my company to make redundancies. So I do have to do other peoples work. I have not had a pay rise in 4 years. We were also asked to take a 20% pay reduction every 3rd month to avoid more redundancies (this lasted for 14months) So I am worse off. A lot of of the Public Sector got a pay rise - even though there was a pay freeze. Because you moved up the scale in your payment band. I know this, because my sister is a teacher. . I took it. Because that is how the world is at the moment. Sure I want 3% pay increase every year, and I don't want to have to work 9 and a half hour days and Saturday mornings when I am contracted to a 39 hour week. . But when my alarm goes off, i wake up in 2011, in England. Not in a Fairy Tale or some make believe land. The country (and the rst of the world more or less) is crocked. Admit it, except it, move on. flashdonut

11:11am Wed 30 Nov 11

thepointis says...

you think bankers are putting their own money into their pensions ?
Heres a word to look up ...Puerile.
you think bankers are putting their own money into their pensions ? Heres a word to look up ...Puerile. thepointis

11:12am Wed 30 Nov 11

NOTSOCOMMENSENSE says...

Teachers should only get 75% of a pension anyway,most have stopped marking/working at home only work 7 hour days less lunch and have more holidays than mps (@ 12 weeks = 3 months) + some think they have to take the sick days they are allowed and still take an extra weeks worth of days not teaching in training days why can this not be done in scool holiday time. So when your feeling sympathy for these people if your not an mp/teacher think how it compares to your life
Teachers should only get 75% of a pension anyway,most have stopped marking/working at home only work 7 hour days less lunch and have more holidays than mps (@ 12 weeks = 3 months) + some think they have to take the sick days they are allowed and still take an extra weeks worth of days not teaching in training days why can this not be done in scool holiday time. So when your feeling sympathy for these people if your not an mp/teacher think how it compares to your life NOTSOCOMMENSENSE

11:15am Wed 30 Nov 11

thepointis says...

flashdonut wrote:
thepointis wrote:
All that you pay the public servants pay they pay tax too ...they pay for their own pensions .
Lets sack the person who works next to YOU and you can do his work...then we will increase what you have to pay for your pension and make it so you have to work an extra 5 or 6 years...and as a bonus when you get your pension it will be worth 25 percent less....yaaay .
Oh wait a minute in the mean time we are going to give you 90 days notice then sack you and rehire you but on less money .
What do you expect them to do sit there and take it ? if so go and buy a pair of extra long slippers and a red nose i have the perfect job for you.
Errr. The recession forced my company to make redundancies. So I do have to do other peoples work. I have not had a pay rise in 4 years. We were also asked to take a 20% pay reduction every 3rd month to avoid more redundancies (this lasted for 14months) So I am worse off. A lot of of the Public Sector got a pay rise - even though there was a pay freeze. Because you moved up the scale in your payment band. I know this, because my sister is a teacher.
.
I took it. Because that is how the world is at the moment. Sure I want 3% pay increase every year, and I don't want to have to work 9 and a half hour days and Saturday mornings when I am contracted to a 39 hour week.
.
But when my alarm goes off, i wake up in 2011, in England. Not in a Fairy Tale or some make believe land.
The country (and the rst of the world more or less) is crocked. Admit it, except it, move on.
Who caused the recession ?
[quote][p][bold]flashdonut[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: All that you pay the public servants pay they pay tax too ...they pay for their own pensions . Lets sack the person who works next to YOU and you can do his work...then we will increase what you have to pay for your pension and make it so you have to work an extra 5 or 6 years...and as a bonus when you get your pension it will be worth 25 percent less....yaaay . Oh wait a minute in the mean time we are going to give you 90 days notice then sack you and rehire you but on less money . What do you expect them to do sit there and take it ? if so go and buy a pair of extra long slippers and a red nose i have the perfect job for you.[/p][/quote]Errr. The recession forced my company to make redundancies. So I do have to do other peoples work. I have not had a pay rise in 4 years. We were also asked to take a 20% pay reduction every 3rd month to avoid more redundancies (this lasted for 14months) So I am worse off. A lot of of the Public Sector got a pay rise - even though there was a pay freeze. Because you moved up the scale in your payment band. I know this, because my sister is a teacher. . I took it. Because that is how the world is at the moment. Sure I want 3% pay increase every year, and I don't want to have to work 9 and a half hour days and Saturday mornings when I am contracted to a 39 hour week. . But when my alarm goes off, i wake up in 2011, in England. Not in a Fairy Tale or some make believe land. The country (and the rst of the world more or less) is crocked. Admit it, except it, move on.[/p][/quote]Who caused the recession ? thepointis

11:20am Wed 30 Nov 11

thepointis says...

angry bradfordian wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
Didn't take long for the bankers to come up did it.
.
This needed to be done and if you want any proof in the matter look at how the Labour party are not standing behind the unions on this one, because they know they would have had to do the same, they just put it off in order to keep votes in the last election.
Yes, it seems to be an inconvenient truth to the protesters.
I read on the BBC website yesterday that 1/8 of all tax revenue comes from the finance industry taxes & levies (before the worker's tax) so they already contribute more than their fair share to the economy.
They caused this mess.
[quote][p][bold]angry bradfordian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: Didn't take long for the bankers to come up did it. . This needed to be done and if you want any proof in the matter look at how the Labour party are not standing behind the unions on this one, because they know they would have had to do the same, they just put it off in order to keep votes in the last election.[/p][/quote]Yes, it seems to be an inconvenient truth to the protesters. I read on the BBC website yesterday that 1/8 of all tax revenue comes from the finance industry taxes & levies (before the worker's tax) so they already contribute more than their fair share to the economy.[/p][/quote]They caused this mess. thepointis

11:21am Wed 30 Nov 11

thepointis says...

NOTSOCOMMENSENSE wrote:
Teachers should only get 75% of a pension anyway,most have stopped marking/working at home only work 7 hour days less lunch and have more holidays than mps (@ 12 weeks = 3 months) + some think they have to take the sick days they are allowed and still take an extra weeks worth of days not teaching in training days why can this not be done in scool holiday time. So when your feeling sympathy for these people if your not an mp/teacher think how it compares to your life
so your off school today .
[quote][p][bold]NOTSOCOMMENSENSE[/bold] wrote: Teachers should only get 75% of a pension anyway,most have stopped marking/working at home only work 7 hour days less lunch and have more holidays than mps (@ 12 weeks = 3 months) + some think they have to take the sick days they are allowed and still take an extra weeks worth of days not teaching in training days why can this not be done in scool holiday time. So when your feeling sympathy for these people if your not an mp/teacher think how it compares to your life[/p][/quote]so your off school today . thepointis

11:25am Wed 30 Nov 11

Thee Voice of Reason says...

Thepointis, if all your going to go on about is bankers and MP then please don't bother.
.
There are millions of people in the private sector who are facing losing their jobs as companies try to stay afloat. Look at the redundancies at Gratton, how Thomas Cook nearly went under, TJ Hughes, look at the empty shops in the City center, think of all the small businesses that have disappeared without a trace.
.
The people striking today aren't even losing their jobs so expecting public sympathy when many don't even know if they are going to be in employment in the new year shows you how out of touch these unions are.
Thepointis, if all your going to go on about is bankers and MP then please don't bother. . There are millions of people in the private sector who are facing losing their jobs as companies try to stay afloat. Look at the redundancies at Gratton, how Thomas Cook nearly went under, TJ Hughes, look at the empty shops in the City center, think of all the small businesses that have disappeared without a trace. . The people striking today aren't even losing their jobs so expecting public sympathy when many don't even know if they are going to be in employment in the new year shows you how out of touch these unions are. Thee Voice of Reason

11:27am Wed 30 Nov 11

angry bradfordian says...

The economy is too complicated a system to blame purely on the 'bankers', especially if you are suggesting that it's all down to UK bankers to suddenly prop up the entire British public sector pension system.
There are many causes of the currently problems. Some of it is down to the US Sub-prime issues, some of it is down to the 'one size fits all' Euro.
Some of it is down to our banks giving mortgages to people who couldn't afford it. This means that you, me & anybody else who irresponsibly borrowed money beyond their means is also responsible.
And whilst all this was going on, our government carried on spending money we didn't have and ignored what the bankers were doing.
All this is probably why Labour are being more than a tad sheepish about the strike action and all the politicians of all sides are a bunch of hypocrites as long as they blame each other for this mess.
The economy is too complicated a system to blame purely on the 'bankers', especially if you are suggesting that it's all down to UK bankers to suddenly prop up the entire British public sector pension system. There are many causes of the currently problems. Some of it is down to the US Sub-prime issues, some of it is down to the 'one size fits all' Euro. Some of it is down to our banks giving mortgages to people who couldn't afford it. This means that you, me & anybody else who irresponsibly borrowed money beyond their means is also responsible. And whilst all this was going on, our government carried on spending money we didn't have and ignored what the bankers were doing. All this is probably why Labour are being more than a tad sheepish about the strike action and all the politicians of all sides are a bunch of hypocrites as long as they blame each other for this mess. angry bradfordian

11:31am Wed 30 Nov 11

thepointis says...

They are are not losing their job's ?
over 400,000 jobs are to go and the work those 400,00 did will have to be done by those remaining.
They are are not losing their job's ? over 400,000 jobs are to go and the work those 400,00 did will have to be done by those remaining. thepointis

11:33am Wed 30 Nov 11

NOTSOCOMMENSENSE says...

thepointis wrote:
NOTSOCOMMENSENSE wrote: Teachers should only get 75% of a pension anyway,most have stopped marking/working at home only work 7 hour days less lunch and have more holidays than mps (@ 12 weeks = 3 months) + some think they have to take the sick days they are allowed and still take an extra weeks worth of days not teaching in training days why can this not be done in scool holiday time. So when your feeling sympathy for these people if your not an mp/teacher think how it compares to your life
so your off school today .
Looks like you stopped at home in the warm instead of joining your comrades on the picket line,
ps are the binmen working todaydoes anybody know?
[quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NOTSOCOMMENSENSE[/bold] wrote: Teachers should only get 75% of a pension anyway,most have stopped marking/working at home only work 7 hour days less lunch and have more holidays than mps (@ 12 weeks = 3 months) + some think they have to take the sick days they are allowed and still take an extra weeks worth of days not teaching in training days why can this not be done in scool holiday time. So when your feeling sympathy for these people if your not an mp/teacher think how it compares to your life[/p][/quote]so your off school today .[/p][/quote]Looks like you stopped at home in the warm instead of joining your comrades on the picket line, ps are the binmen working todaydoes anybody know? NOTSOCOMMENSENSE

11:36am Wed 30 Nov 11

Thee Voice of Reason says...

thepointis wrote:
They are are not losing their job's ? over 400,000 jobs are to go and the work those 400,00 did will have to be done by those remaining.
The point of these strikes is they are about terms of pensions, not about loss of jobs, have you got that yet?
.
Looking at the bigger picture, maybe if they were more accepting of the situation and came to a comprimise on pensions, then maybe there would be enough money to keep people employed. If the unions won't budge then jobs will have to be lost. You can't have it both ways and keep pensions the same whilst keeping the same number of employees.
[quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: They are are not losing their job's ? over 400,000 jobs are to go and the work those 400,00 did will have to be done by those remaining.[/p][/quote]The point of these strikes is they are about terms of pensions, not about loss of jobs, have you got that yet? . Looking at the bigger picture, maybe if they were more accepting of the situation and came to a comprimise on pensions, then maybe there would be enough money to keep people employed. If the unions won't budge then jobs will have to be lost. You can't have it both ways and keep pensions the same whilst keeping the same number of employees. Thee Voice of Reason

11:40am Wed 30 Nov 11

thepointis says...

angry bradfordian wrote:
The economy is too complicated a system to blame purely on the 'bankers', especially if you are suggesting that it's all down to UK bankers to suddenly prop up the entire British public sector pension system.
There are many causes of the currently problems. Some of it is down to the US Sub-prime issues, some of it is down to the 'one size fits all' Euro.
Some of it is down to our banks giving mortgages to people who couldn't afford it. This means that you, me & anybody else who irresponsibly borrowed money beyond their means is also responsible.
And whilst all this was going on, our government carried on spending money we didn't have and ignored what the bankers were doing.
All this is probably why Labour are being more than a tad sheepish about the strike action and all the politicians of all sides are a bunch of hypocrites as long as they blame each other for this mess.
No its not...And all the causes have come about because of Uk , risky high reward European and American financial practices.
Whatever way you look at this mess it primary cause was greedy bankers .
[quote][p][bold]angry bradfordian[/bold] wrote: The economy is too complicated a system to blame purely on the 'bankers', especially if you are suggesting that it's all down to UK bankers to suddenly prop up the entire British public sector pension system. There are many causes of the currently problems. Some of it is down to the US Sub-prime issues, some of it is down to the 'one size fits all' Euro. Some of it is down to our banks giving mortgages to people who couldn't afford it. This means that you, me & anybody else who irresponsibly borrowed money beyond their means is also responsible. And whilst all this was going on, our government carried on spending money we didn't have and ignored what the bankers were doing. All this is probably why Labour are being more than a tad sheepish about the strike action and all the politicians of all sides are a bunch of hypocrites as long as they blame each other for this mess.[/p][/quote]No its not...And all the causes have come about because of Uk , risky high reward European and American financial practices. Whatever way you look at this mess it primary cause was greedy bankers . thepointis

11:42am Wed 30 Nov 11

thepointis says...

NOTSOCOMMENSENSE wrote:
thepointis wrote:
NOTSOCOMMENSENSE wrote: Teachers should only get 75% of a pension anyway,most have stopped marking/working at home only work 7 hour days less lunch and have more holidays than mps (@ 12 weeks = 3 months) + some think they have to take the sick days they are allowed and still take an extra weeks worth of days not teaching in training days why can this not be done in scool holiday time. So when your feeling sympathy for these people if your not an mp/teacher think how it compares to your life
so your off school today .
Looks like you stopped at home in the warm instead of joining your comrades on the picket line,
ps are the binmen working todaydoes anybody know?
I am one of the unlucky ones who lost their job.
[quote][p][bold]NOTSOCOMMENSENSE[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NOTSOCOMMENSENSE[/bold] wrote: Teachers should only get 75% of a pension anyway,most have stopped marking/working at home only work 7 hour days less lunch and have more holidays than mps (@ 12 weeks = 3 months) + some think they have to take the sick days they are allowed and still take an extra weeks worth of days not teaching in training days why can this not be done in scool holiday time. So when your feeling sympathy for these people if your not an mp/teacher think how it compares to your life[/p][/quote]so your off school today .[/p][/quote]Looks like you stopped at home in the warm instead of joining your comrades on the picket line, ps are the binmen working todaydoes anybody know?[/p][/quote]I am one of the unlucky ones who lost their job. thepointis

11:44am Wed 30 Nov 11

thepointis says...

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
thepointis wrote:
They are are not losing their job's ? over 400,000 jobs are to go and the work those 400,00 did will have to be done by those remaining.
The point of these strikes is they are about terms of pensions, not about loss of jobs, have you got that yet?
.
Looking at the bigger picture, maybe if they were more accepting of the situation and came to a comprimise on pensions, then maybe there would be enough money to keep people employed. If the unions won't budge then jobs will have to be lost. You can't have it both ways and keep pensions the same whilst keeping the same number of employees.
You just said they werent losing there jobs ? now they are but it not about that ? this is about making a stand.
[quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: They are are not losing their job's ? over 400,000 jobs are to go and the work those 400,00 did will have to be done by those remaining.[/p][/quote]The point of these strikes is they are about terms of pensions, not about loss of jobs, have you got that yet? . Looking at the bigger picture, maybe if they were more accepting of the situation and came to a comprimise on pensions, then maybe there would be enough money to keep people employed. If the unions won't budge then jobs will have to be lost. You can't have it both ways and keep pensions the same whilst keeping the same number of employees.[/p][/quote]You just said they werent losing there jobs ? now they are but it not about that ? this is about making a stand. thepointis

11:44am Wed 30 Nov 11

Thee Voice of Reason says...

thepointis wrote:
angry bradfordian wrote: The economy is too complicated a system to blame purely on the 'bankers', especially if you are suggesting that it's all down to UK bankers to suddenly prop up the entire British public sector pension system. There are many causes of the currently problems. Some of it is down to the US Sub-prime issues, some of it is down to the 'one size fits all' Euro. Some of it is down to our banks giving mortgages to people who couldn't afford it. This means that you, me & anybody else who irresponsibly borrowed money beyond their means is also responsible. And whilst all this was going on, our government carried on spending money we didn't have and ignored what the bankers were doing. All this is probably why Labour are being more than a tad sheepish about the strike action and all the politicians of all sides are a bunch of hypocrites as long as they blame each other for this mess.
No its not...And all the causes have come about because of Uk , risky high reward European and American financial practices. Whatever way you look at this mess it primary cause was greedy bankers .
What about the fact the Labour government during boom years was still borrowing money, and that they left the country paying more money in interest repayments than we spend on the defense budget.
.
Also what about the fact pensions cost more because people are living alot longer.
.
There is a whole host of reasons and you it seems have been brainwashed into thinking it's just down to bankers and no one else.
.
Mr Brown wasn't complaining at all the tax money the bankers were bringing in whilst he was in the treasury.
[quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]angry bradfordian[/bold] wrote: The economy is too complicated a system to blame purely on the 'bankers', especially if you are suggesting that it's all down to UK bankers to suddenly prop up the entire British public sector pension system. There are many causes of the currently problems. Some of it is down to the US Sub-prime issues, some of it is down to the 'one size fits all' Euro. Some of it is down to our banks giving mortgages to people who couldn't afford it. This means that you, me & anybody else who irresponsibly borrowed money beyond their means is also responsible. And whilst all this was going on, our government carried on spending money we didn't have and ignored what the bankers were doing. All this is probably why Labour are being more than a tad sheepish about the strike action and all the politicians of all sides are a bunch of hypocrites as long as they blame each other for this mess.[/p][/quote]No its not...And all the causes have come about because of Uk , risky high reward European and American financial practices. Whatever way you look at this mess it primary cause was greedy bankers .[/p][/quote]What about the fact the Labour government during boom years was still borrowing money, and that they left the country paying more money in interest repayments than we spend on the defense budget. . Also what about the fact pensions cost more because people are living alot longer. . There is a whole host of reasons and you it seems have been brainwashed into thinking it's just down to bankers and no one else. . Mr Brown wasn't complaining at all the tax money the bankers were bringing in whilst he was in the treasury. Thee Voice of Reason

11:47am Wed 30 Nov 11

Leighann says...

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
Do the people striking realise that those who are the lower paid won't be required to pay more in contributions or have contributions capped or have they been fed some yarn from the union reps?
.
The fact canteen staff and cleaners are joining the strikes along with bin men suggests we have either some highly paid canteen staff, cleaners and bin men or they are being told by the unions they are going to be effected by changes that really won't effect them.
I agree with you, I work in the NHS and the lower paid staff i.e. porters, cleaners, catering etc are not affected by the changes, the changes come in to play if you are a band 2 on spine point 4 or above. The lower band 1 start off at £7.12 upto £7.49 per hour, this is more that my partner gets in the private sector, he is on £6.51 per hour.

Changes in the pension would mean that I would pay £204 more per year by 2014/2015, the reduction in pay after tax relief would be £163.

I live in the real word and can see that we are going to be working longer and paying more money into our pensions. I have worked in the private and public sectors so know how they both work.
[quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: Do the people striking realise that those who are the lower paid won't be required to pay more in contributions or have contributions capped or have they been fed some yarn from the union reps? . The fact canteen staff and cleaners are joining the strikes along with bin men suggests we have either some highly paid canteen staff, cleaners and bin men or they are being told by the unions they are going to be effected by changes that really won't effect them.[/p][/quote]I agree with you, I work in the NHS and the lower paid staff i.e. porters, cleaners, catering etc are not affected by the changes, the changes come in to play if you are a band 2 on spine point 4 or above. The lower band 1 start off at £7.12 upto £7.49 per hour, this is more that my partner gets in the private sector, he is on £6.51 per hour. Changes in the pension would mean that I would pay £204 more per year by 2014/2015, the reduction in pay after tax relief would be £163. I live in the real word and can see that we are going to be working longer and paying more money into our pensions. I have worked in the private and public sectors so know how they both work. Leighann

11:47am Wed 30 Nov 11

Thee Voice of Reason says...

thepointis wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
thepointis wrote: They are are not losing their job's ? over 400,000 jobs are to go and the work those 400,00 did will have to be done by those remaining.
The point of these strikes is they are about terms of pensions, not about loss of jobs, have you got that yet? . Looking at the bigger picture, maybe if they were more accepting of the situation and came to a comprimise on pensions, then maybe there would be enough money to keep people employed. If the unions won't budge then jobs will have to be lost. You can't have it both ways and keep pensions the same whilst keeping the same number of employees.
You just said they werent losing there jobs ? now they are but it not about that ? this is about making a stand.
I said the strike action is not about losing jobs it's about protecting pensions. If they were striking about jobs cuts they may have got more sympathy from the public but they aren't striking about jobs cuts.
.
I noticed you pretty much ignored the valid point I put to you regarding comprimise on pensions might save jobs in the long term.
[quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: They are are not losing their job's ? over 400,000 jobs are to go and the work those 400,00 did will have to be done by those remaining.[/p][/quote]The point of these strikes is they are about terms of pensions, not about loss of jobs, have you got that yet? . Looking at the bigger picture, maybe if they were more accepting of the situation and came to a comprimise on pensions, then maybe there would be enough money to keep people employed. If the unions won't budge then jobs will have to be lost. You can't have it both ways and keep pensions the same whilst keeping the same number of employees.[/p][/quote]You just said they werent losing there jobs ? now they are but it not about that ? this is about making a stand.[/p][/quote]I said the strike action is not about losing jobs it's about protecting pensions. If they were striking about jobs cuts they may have got more sympathy from the public but they aren't striking about jobs cuts. . I noticed you pretty much ignored the valid point I put to you regarding comprimise on pensions might save jobs in the long term. Thee Voice of Reason

11:47am Wed 30 Nov 11

Old Peculiar says...

moanmoanwhingewhinge wrote:
Old Peculiar wrote: If you think that striking will get you support from the general public, you are very very much mistaken. Get back to work, you pathetic, bone idle, any excuse for a day off, whinging wasters. The sooner you wake up, and realise that eveything isn't rosy in our green and pleasant financial garden, the better for us all ; especially our children, who are having ANOTHER day of NO EDUCATION at your expense.
And your working hard today are you?? Why not research exactly why these people feel forced into action, in order to give a reasoned argument, rather than just hysterically spouting whatever crap you've read in the Daily Mail, you pathetic, whingeing, Tory loving tw@
Yes, I am working hard today, as I do every day - and every day I pay my taxes, for services that are not being delivered by these union fed sheep (and by the looks of the pic on the front page of the T&A, they've been well fed in time for the winter months).

I have a pension scheme aswell, a stakeholder, that is going down faster than free school dinners in Bradford. But guess what - I'm not going out on strike, or stropping because the public sector won't be reducing their pots to top up mine, I have no choice other than to accept it - because the pot is getting smaller and smaller, and there are more and more people taking their share of it !!!!!
Get back to work, you namby pamby, degree counting, set of jobsworths.
[quote][p][bold]moanmoanwhingewhinge[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Old Peculiar[/bold] wrote: If you think that striking will get you support from the general public, you are very very much mistaken. Get back to work, you pathetic, bone idle, any excuse for a day off, whinging wasters. The sooner you wake up, and realise that eveything isn't rosy in our green and pleasant financial garden, the better for us all ; especially our children, who are having ANOTHER day of NO EDUCATION at your expense.[/p][/quote]And your working hard today are you?? Why not research exactly why these people feel forced into action, in order to give a reasoned argument, rather than just hysterically spouting whatever crap you've read in the Daily Mail, you pathetic, whingeing, Tory loving tw@[/p][/quote]Yes, I am working hard today, as I do every day - and every day I pay my taxes, for services that are not being delivered by these union fed sheep (and by the looks of the pic on the front page of the T&A, they've been well fed in time for the winter months). I have a pension scheme aswell, a stakeholder, that is going down faster than free school dinners in Bradford. But guess what - I'm not going out on strike, or stropping because the public sector won't be reducing their pots to top up mine, I have no choice other than to accept it - because the pot is getting smaller and smaller, and there are more and more people taking their share of it !!!!! Get back to work, you namby pamby, degree counting, set of jobsworths. Old Peculiar

11:47am Wed 30 Nov 11

Wakeywakey says...

Old Peculiar wrote:
If you think that striking will get you support from the general public, you are very very much mistaken.
Get back to work, you pathetic, bone idle, any excuse for a day off, whinging wasters.
The sooner you wake up, and realise that eveything isn't rosy in our green and pleasant financial garden, the better for us all ; especially our children, who are having ANOTHER day of NO EDUCATION at your expense.
Cor! thats a bit strong innit?
[quote][p][bold]Old Peculiar[/bold] wrote: If you think that striking will get you support from the general public, you are very very much mistaken. Get back to work, you pathetic, bone idle, any excuse for a day off, whinging wasters. The sooner you wake up, and realise that eveything isn't rosy in our green and pleasant financial garden, the better for us all ; especially our children, who are having ANOTHER day of NO EDUCATION at your expense.[/p][/quote]Cor! thats a bit strong innit? Wakeywakey

11:48am Wed 30 Nov 11

thepointis says...

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
thepointis wrote:
angry bradfordian wrote: The economy is too complicated a system to blame purely on the 'bankers', especially if you are suggesting that it's all down to UK bankers to suddenly prop up the entire British public sector pension system. There are many causes of the currently problems. Some of it is down to the US Sub-prime issues, some of it is down to the 'one size fits all' Euro. Some of it is down to our banks giving mortgages to people who couldn't afford it. This means that you, me & anybody else who irresponsibly borrowed money beyond their means is also responsible. And whilst all this was going on, our government carried on spending money we didn't have and ignored what the bankers were doing. All this is probably why Labour are being more than a tad sheepish about the strike action and all the politicians of all sides are a bunch of hypocrites as long as they blame each other for this mess.
No its not...And all the causes have come about because of Uk , risky high reward European and American financial practices. Whatever way you look at this mess it primary cause was greedy bankers .
What about the fact the Labour government during boom years was still borrowing money, and that they left the country paying more money in interest repayments than we spend on the defense budget.
.
Also what about the fact pensions cost more because people are living alot longer.
.
There is a whole host of reasons and you it seems have been brainwashed into thinking it's just down to bankers and no one else.
.
Mr Brown wasn't complaining at all the tax money the bankers were bringing in whilst he was in the treasury.
Me brainwashed ?
You have listened to the tories and believed them.
[quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]angry bradfordian[/bold] wrote: The economy is too complicated a system to blame purely on the 'bankers', especially if you are suggesting that it's all down to UK bankers to suddenly prop up the entire British public sector pension system. There are many causes of the currently problems. Some of it is down to the US Sub-prime issues, some of it is down to the 'one size fits all' Euro. Some of it is down to our banks giving mortgages to people who couldn't afford it. This means that you, me & anybody else who irresponsibly borrowed money beyond their means is also responsible. And whilst all this was going on, our government carried on spending money we didn't have and ignored what the bankers were doing. All this is probably why Labour are being more than a tad sheepish about the strike action and all the politicians of all sides are a bunch of hypocrites as long as they blame each other for this mess.[/p][/quote]No its not...And all the causes have come about because of Uk , risky high reward European and American financial practices. Whatever way you look at this mess it primary cause was greedy bankers .[/p][/quote]What about the fact the Labour government during boom years was still borrowing money, and that they left the country paying more money in interest repayments than we spend on the defense budget. . Also what about the fact pensions cost more because people are living alot longer. . There is a whole host of reasons and you it seems have been brainwashed into thinking it's just down to bankers and no one else. . Mr Brown wasn't complaining at all the tax money the bankers were bringing in whilst he was in the treasury.[/p][/quote]Me brainwashed ? You have listened to the tories and believed them. thepointis

11:50am Wed 30 Nov 11

angry bradfordian says...

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
thepointis wrote:
angry bradfordian wrote: The economy is too complicated a system to blame purely on the 'bankers', especially if you are suggesting that it's all down to UK bankers to suddenly prop up the entire British public sector pension system. There are many causes of the currently problems. Some of it is down to the US Sub-prime issues, some of it is down to the 'one size fits all' Euro. Some of it is down to our banks giving mortgages to people who couldn't afford it. This means that you, me & anybody else who irresponsibly borrowed money beyond their means is also responsible. And whilst all this was going on, our government carried on spending money we didn't have and ignored what the bankers were doing. All this is probably why Labour are being more than a tad sheepish about the strike action and all the politicians of all sides are a bunch of hypocrites as long as they blame each other for this mess.
No its not...And all the causes have come about because of Uk , risky high reward European and American financial practices. Whatever way you look at this mess it primary cause was greedy bankers .
What about the fact the Labour government during boom years was still borrowing money, and that they left the country paying more money in interest repayments than we spend on the defense budget.
.
Also what about the fact pensions cost more because people are living alot longer.
.
There is a whole host of reasons and you it seems have been brainwashed into thinking it's just down to bankers and no one else.
.
Mr Brown wasn't complaining at all the tax money the bankers were bringing in whilst he was in the treasury.
The hypocrisy of the Labour party would amaze me if I didn't know that all politicians are a bunch of cheats & liars.
For years, Labour said the economy was good because of their prudence (whilst the world economy was going well)
Then when the UK economy went downhill it was all because of 'world economy issues'
Now they're saying that the recession's all down to Tory policies.
[quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]angry bradfordian[/bold] wrote: The economy is too complicated a system to blame purely on the 'bankers', especially if you are suggesting that it's all down to UK bankers to suddenly prop up the entire British public sector pension system. There are many causes of the currently problems. Some of it is down to the US Sub-prime issues, some of it is down to the 'one size fits all' Euro. Some of it is down to our banks giving mortgages to people who couldn't afford it. This means that you, me & anybody else who irresponsibly borrowed money beyond their means is also responsible. And whilst all this was going on, our government carried on spending money we didn't have and ignored what the bankers were doing. All this is probably why Labour are being more than a tad sheepish about the strike action and all the politicians of all sides are a bunch of hypocrites as long as they blame each other for this mess.[/p][/quote]No its not...And all the causes have come about because of Uk , risky high reward European and American financial practices. Whatever way you look at this mess it primary cause was greedy bankers .[/p][/quote]What about the fact the Labour government during boom years was still borrowing money, and that they left the country paying more money in interest repayments than we spend on the defense budget. . Also what about the fact pensions cost more because people are living alot longer. . There is a whole host of reasons and you it seems have been brainwashed into thinking it's just down to bankers and no one else. . Mr Brown wasn't complaining at all the tax money the bankers were bringing in whilst he was in the treasury.[/p][/quote]The hypocrisy of the Labour party would amaze me if I didn't know that all politicians are a bunch of cheats & liars. For years, Labour said the economy was good because of their prudence (whilst the world economy was going well) Then when the UK economy went downhill it was all because of 'world economy issues' Now they're saying that the recession's all down to Tory policies. angry bradfordian

11:51am Wed 30 Nov 11

thepointis says...

Old Peculiar wrote:
If you think that striking will get you support from the general public, you are very very much mistaken.
Get back to work, you pathetic, bone idle, any excuse for a day off, whinging wasters.
The sooner you wake up, and realise that eveything isn't rosy in our green and pleasant financial garden, the better for us all ; especially our children, who are having ANOTHER day of NO EDUCATION at your expense.
Is there no EDL meeting today ?
[quote][p][bold]Old Peculiar[/bold] wrote: If you think that striking will get you support from the general public, you are very very much mistaken. Get back to work, you pathetic, bone idle, any excuse for a day off, whinging wasters. The sooner you wake up, and realise that eveything isn't rosy in our green and pleasant financial garden, the better for us all ; especially our children, who are having ANOTHER day of NO EDUCATION at your expense.[/p][/quote]Is there no EDL meeting today ? thepointis

11:51am Wed 30 Nov 11

AMDRAM says...

Take it all the teachers have gone on an away day - didn't see any of them protesting outside their schools - - nice little day off then - as if they don't get enough with the 13 week hols! Hear they only lose 1/2 a day's pay as well - not a full day like everyone else!
Take it all the teachers have gone on an away day - didn't see any of them protesting outside their schools - - nice little day off then - as if they don't get enough with the 13 week hols! Hear they only lose 1/2 a day's pay as well - not a full day like everyone else! AMDRAM

11:55am Wed 30 Nov 11

thepointis says...

AMDRAM wrote:
Take it all the teachers have gone on an away day - didn't see any of them protesting outside their schools - - nice little day off then - as if they don't get enough with the 13 week hols! Hear they only lose 1/2 a day's pay as well - not a full day like everyone else!
They are on the marches .
What do you do for a living ?
[quote][p][bold]AMDRAM[/bold] wrote: Take it all the teachers have gone on an away day - didn't see any of them protesting outside their schools - - nice little day off then - as if they don't get enough with the 13 week hols! Hear they only lose 1/2 a day's pay as well - not a full day like everyone else![/p][/quote]They are on the marches . What do you do for a living ? thepointis

12:01pm Wed 30 Nov 11

angry bradfordian says...

An anti-strike comment has finally appeared on the main story on the T&A website- ('Conservative Councillor Simon Cooke, on his blog, refers to a comment on a T&A story and highlights some opposition to the strikes.') in the middle of pictures of strikers and numerous quotes from union officials.

This is the only thing I've seen to even suggest there is an alternative view. Perhaps the T&A should look at the BBC website to see some balanced reporting.
An anti-strike comment has finally appeared on the main story on the T&A website- ('Conservative Councillor Simon Cooke, on his blog, refers to a comment on a T&A story and highlights some opposition to the strikes.') in the middle of pictures of strikers and numerous quotes from union officials. This is the only thing I've seen to even suggest there is an alternative view. Perhaps the T&A should look at the BBC website to see some balanced reporting. angry bradfordian

12:03pm Wed 30 Nov 11

NOTSOCOMMENSENSE says...

thepointis wrote:
NOTSOCOMMENSENSE wrote:
thepointis wrote:
NOTSOCOMMENSENSE wrote: Teachers should only get 75% of a pension anyway,most have stopped marking/working at home only work 7 hour days less lunch and have more holidays than mps (@ 12 weeks = 3 months) + some think they have to take the sick days they are allowed and still take an extra weeks worth of days not teaching in training days why can this not be done in scool holiday time. So when your feeling sympathy for these people if your not an mp/teacher think how it compares to your life
so your off school today .
Looks like you stopped at home in the warm instead of joining your comrades on the picket line, ps are the binmen working todaydoes anybody know?
I am one of the unlucky ones who lost their job.
i lost mine as well 12 months ago without any pension to come but this isnt about job losses this is about the over generous pensions paid to public sector workers whos pay is now as good if not better (especially with the perks and bonuses some get ie tax inspectors if they discover wrong doing thought that was their job did you know the basic wage for a bin man when i looked a few years ago was £12k with a 100% guarenteed enhancement) than the majority of private sector workers.If they dont want the jobs let them step aside for people who would gladly do them
[quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NOTSOCOMMENSENSE[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NOTSOCOMMENSENSE[/bold] wrote: Teachers should only get 75% of a pension anyway,most have stopped marking/working at home only work 7 hour days less lunch and have more holidays than mps (@ 12 weeks = 3 months) + some think they have to take the sick days they are allowed and still take an extra weeks worth of days not teaching in training days why can this not be done in scool holiday time. So when your feeling sympathy for these people if your not an mp/teacher think how it compares to your life[/p][/quote]so your off school today .[/p][/quote]Looks like you stopped at home in the warm instead of joining your comrades on the picket line, ps are the binmen working todaydoes anybody know?[/p][/quote]I am one of the unlucky ones who lost their job.[/p][/quote]i lost mine as well 12 months ago without any pension to come but this isnt about job losses this is about the over generous pensions paid to public sector workers whos pay is now as good if not better (especially with the perks and bonuses some get ie tax inspectors if they discover wrong doing thought that was their job did you know the basic wage for a bin man when i looked a few years ago was £12k with a 100% guarenteed enhancement) than the majority of private sector workers.If they dont want the jobs let them step aside for people who would gladly do them NOTSOCOMMENSENSE

12:08pm Wed 30 Nov 11

NOTSOCOMMENSENSE says...

Ps Wonder why there wasn't this much noise when Brown and Blair Plundered the pensions when they were in office (wonder where Blair pays his taxes now as he works out of the country after hanging on an extra 12 months so he would get nearlly double pension)
Ps Wonder why there wasn't this much noise when Brown and Blair Plundered the pensions when they were in office (wonder where Blair pays his taxes now as he works out of the country after hanging on an extra 12 months so he would get nearlly double pension) NOTSOCOMMENSENSE

12:10pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Andy2010 says...

A family friend of mine heard last week that her chemo treatment was cancelled today because of the strikes.....this just goes to show how everyone in the public sector couldnt give a flying **** about their jobs from teachers to nurses etc etc ....they are all in it for themselves
A family friend of mine heard last week that her chemo treatment was cancelled today because of the strikes.....this just goes to show how everyone in the public sector couldnt give a flying **** about their jobs from teachers to nurses etc etc ....they are all in it for themselves Andy2010

12:13pm Wed 30 Nov 11

angry bradfordian says...

NOTSOCOMMENSENSE wrote:
Ps Wonder why there wasn't this much noise when Brown and Blair Plundered the pensions when they were in office (wonder where Blair pays his taxes now as he works out of the country after hanging on an extra 12 months so he would get nearlly double pension)
You could say the same about a lot of Labour Policies that didn't cause strikes & protests:
-raiding the pensions schemes & selling the gold reserves
-introducing tuitions fees (at least the Tory's put it in their manifesto)
-slowly privatising bits of the public sector

I assume the unions were too busy having dinner at number 10 to bother with striking then?
[quote][p][bold]NOTSOCOMMENSENSE[/bold] wrote: Ps Wonder why there wasn't this much noise when Brown and Blair Plundered the pensions when they were in office (wonder where Blair pays his taxes now as he works out of the country after hanging on an extra 12 months so he would get nearlly double pension)[/p][/quote]You could say the same about a lot of Labour Policies that didn't cause strikes & protests: -raiding the pensions schemes & selling the gold reserves -introducing tuitions fees (at least the Tory's put it in their manifesto) -slowly privatising bits of the public sector I assume the unions were too busy having dinner at number 10 to bother with striking then? angry bradfordian

12:14pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Andy2010 says...

Also I would like to add a business colleague flew up into Heathrow today from America expecting huge delays but on speaking to him he informed me he has never ever seen in 30 years a more efficently run Heathrow with no delays....just goes to show now that Border agencies are being run by private sector today.....privatise the whoel bl00dy public sector and have away with the moaning union parasites thus improving services and the balance sheets
Also I would like to add a business colleague flew up into Heathrow today from America expecting huge delays but on speaking to him he informed me he has never ever seen in 30 years a more efficently run Heathrow with no delays....just goes to show now that Border agencies are being run by private sector today.....privatise the whoel bl00dy public sector and have away with the moaning union parasites thus improving services and the balance sheets Andy2010

12:30pm Wed 30 Nov 11

thepointis says...

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
thepointis wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
thepointis wrote: They are are not losing their job's ? over 400,000 jobs are to go and the work those 400,00 did will have to be done by those remaining.
The point of these strikes is they are about terms of pensions, not about loss of jobs, have you got that yet? . Looking at the bigger picture, maybe if they were more accepting of the situation and came to a comprimise on pensions, then maybe there would be enough money to keep people employed. If the unions won't budge then jobs will have to be lost. You can't have it both ways and keep pensions the same whilst keeping the same number of employees.
You just said they werent losing there jobs ? now they are but it not about that ? this is about making a stand.
I said the strike action is not about losing jobs it's about protecting pensions. If they were striking about jobs cuts they may have got more sympathy from the public but they aren't striking about jobs cuts.
.
I noticed you pretty much ignored the valid point I put to you regarding comprimise on pensions might save jobs in the long term.
no you said they werent losing their jobs...dont be a liar now.
[quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: They are are not losing their job's ? over 400,000 jobs are to go and the work those 400,00 did will have to be done by those remaining.[/p][/quote]The point of these strikes is they are about terms of pensions, not about loss of jobs, have you got that yet? . Looking at the bigger picture, maybe if they were more accepting of the situation and came to a comprimise on pensions, then maybe there would be enough money to keep people employed. If the unions won't budge then jobs will have to be lost. You can't have it both ways and keep pensions the same whilst keeping the same number of employees.[/p][/quote]You just said they werent losing there jobs ? now they are but it not about that ? this is about making a stand.[/p][/quote]I said the strike action is not about losing jobs it's about protecting pensions. If they were striking about jobs cuts they may have got more sympathy from the public but they aren't striking about jobs cuts. . I noticed you pretty much ignored the valid point I put to you regarding comprimise on pensions might save jobs in the long term.[/p][/quote]no you said they werent losing their jobs...dont be a liar now. thepointis

12:32pm Wed 30 Nov 11

thepointis says...

NOTSOCOMMENSENSE wrote:
thepointis wrote:
NOTSOCOMMENSENSE wrote:
thepointis wrote:
NOTSOCOMMENSENSE wrote: Teachers should only get 75% of a pension anyway,most have stopped marking/working at home only work 7 hour days less lunch and have more holidays than mps (@ 12 weeks = 3 months) + some think they have to take the sick days they are allowed and still take an extra weeks worth of days not teaching in training days why can this not be done in scool holiday time. So when your feeling sympathy for these people if your not an mp/teacher think how it compares to your life
so your off school today .
Looks like you stopped at home in the warm instead of joining your comrades on the picket line, ps are the binmen working todaydoes anybody know?
I am one of the unlucky ones who lost their job.
i lost mine as well 12 months ago without any pension to come but this isnt about job losses this is about the over generous pensions paid to public sector workers whos pay is now as good if not better (especially with the perks and bonuses some get ie tax inspectors if they discover wrong doing thought that was their job did you know the basic wage for a bin man when i looked a few years ago was £12k with a 100% guarenteed enhancement) than the majority of private sector workers.If they dont want the jobs let them step aside for people who would gladly do them
no ...this is about drawing a line in the sand and saying enough.
[quote][p][bold]NOTSOCOMMENSENSE[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NOTSOCOMMENSENSE[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NOTSOCOMMENSENSE[/bold] wrote: Teachers should only get 75% of a pension anyway,most have stopped marking/working at home only work 7 hour days less lunch and have more holidays than mps (@ 12 weeks = 3 months) + some think they have to take the sick days they are allowed and still take an extra weeks worth of days not teaching in training days why can this not be done in scool holiday time. So when your feeling sympathy for these people if your not an mp/teacher think how it compares to your life[/p][/quote]so your off school today .[/p][/quote]Looks like you stopped at home in the warm instead of joining your comrades on the picket line, ps are the binmen working todaydoes anybody know?[/p][/quote]I am one of the unlucky ones who lost their job.[/p][/quote]i lost mine as well 12 months ago without any pension to come but this isnt about job losses this is about the over generous pensions paid to public sector workers whos pay is now as good if not better (especially with the perks and bonuses some get ie tax inspectors if they discover wrong doing thought that was their job did you know the basic wage for a bin man when i looked a few years ago was £12k with a 100% guarenteed enhancement) than the majority of private sector workers.If they dont want the jobs let them step aside for people who would gladly do them[/p][/quote]no ...this is about drawing a line in the sand and saying enough. thepointis

12:34pm Wed 30 Nov 11

TirNaNog says...

Ooh, look another 'convenient' I've got a business colleague/family friend' story.
Is that sheep I smell.. no wait is it goat.. no it's bull!
I see Gideons 5 year plan to remove 'the deficit' is now a 'rolling' 5 year plan!! That means he'll never have to deliver - not that I thought they ever would. I think he's being optimistic if he thinks he's going to get another go.
Ooh, look another 'convenient' I've got a business colleague/family friend' story. Is that sheep I smell.. no wait is it goat.. no it's bull! I see Gideons 5 year plan to remove 'the deficit' is now a 'rolling' 5 year plan!! That means he'll never have to deliver - not that I thought they ever would. I think he's being optimistic if he thinks he's going to get another go. TirNaNog

12:38pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Hulagu says...

Funny how "thepointis" and others go on about the bankers etc etc.

I wonder what they think about the millions Blair has got in since retiring just before the recession?
Or how about the union bosses who get more in pension contributions per annum than the majority of their workers get in salary?
The strikers need to take a step back and take stock, they are being used as pawns, and are mugs for allowing themselves to be used as such!
Funny how "thepointis" and others go on about the bankers etc etc. I wonder what they think about the millions Blair has got in since retiring just before the recession? Or how about the union bosses who get more in pension contributions per annum than the majority of their workers get in salary? The strikers need to take a step back and take stock, they are being used as pawns, and are mugs for allowing themselves to be used as such! Hulagu

12:41pm Wed 30 Nov 11

justjustice says...

So where's the guy who normally posts "Why dont these hippies stop protesting and go and get a job!"?
So where's the guy who normally posts "Why dont these hippies stop protesting and go and get a job!"? justjustice

12:42pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Farsley Bantam says...

thepointis wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
thepointis wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
thepointis wrote: They are are not losing their job's ? over 400,000 jobs are to go and the work those 400,00 did will have to be done by those remaining.
The point of these strikes is they are about terms of pensions, not about loss of jobs, have you got that yet? . Looking at the bigger picture, maybe if they were more accepting of the situation and came to a comprimise on pensions, then maybe there would be enough money to keep people employed. If the unions won't budge then jobs will have to be lost. You can't have it both ways and keep pensions the same whilst keeping the same number of employees.
You just said they werent losing there jobs ? now they are but it not about that ? this is about making a stand.
I said the strike action is not about losing jobs it's about protecting pensions. If they were striking about jobs cuts they may have got more sympathy from the public but they aren't striking about jobs cuts. . I noticed you pretty much ignored the valid point I put to you regarding comprimise on pensions might save jobs in the long term.
no you said they werent losing their jobs...dont be a liar now.
You simpleton. He is not lying at all. If you read what is being said he is saying that the strikes today are about pension cuts and not job cuts.
He has aknowledged that there will be job cuts.
Your just ignoring the facts and talking like your some kind of martyr.
[quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: They are are not losing their job's ? over 400,000 jobs are to go and the work those 400,00 did will have to be done by those remaining.[/p][/quote]The point of these strikes is they are about terms of pensions, not about loss of jobs, have you got that yet? . Looking at the bigger picture, maybe if they were more accepting of the situation and came to a comprimise on pensions, then maybe there would be enough money to keep people employed. If the unions won't budge then jobs will have to be lost. You can't have it both ways and keep pensions the same whilst keeping the same number of employees.[/p][/quote]You just said they werent losing there jobs ? now they are but it not about that ? this is about making a stand.[/p][/quote]I said the strike action is not about losing jobs it's about protecting pensions. If they were striking about jobs cuts they may have got more sympathy from the public but they aren't striking about jobs cuts. . I noticed you pretty much ignored the valid point I put to you regarding comprimise on pensions might save jobs in the long term.[/p][/quote]no you said they werent losing their jobs...dont be a liar now.[/p][/quote]You simpleton. He is not lying at all. If you read what is being said he is saying that the strikes today are about pension cuts and not job cuts. He has aknowledged that there will be job cuts. Your just ignoring the facts and talking like your some kind of martyr. Farsley Bantam

12:43pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Thee Voice of Reason says...

thepointis wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
thepointis wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
thepointis wrote: They are are not losing their job's ? over 400,000 jobs are to go and the work those 400,00 did will have to be done by those remaining.
The point of these strikes is they are about terms of pensions, not about loss of jobs, have you got that yet? . Looking at the bigger picture, maybe if they were more accepting of the situation and came to a comprimise on pensions, then maybe there would be enough money to keep people employed. If the unions won't budge then jobs will have to be lost. You can't have it both ways and keep pensions the same whilst keeping the same number of employees.
You just said they werent losing there jobs ? now they are but it not about that ? this is about making a stand.
I said the strike action is not about losing jobs it's about protecting pensions. If they were striking about jobs cuts they may have got more sympathy from the public but they aren't striking about jobs cuts. . I noticed you pretty much ignored the valid point I put to you regarding comprimise on pensions might save jobs in the long term.
no you said they werent losing their jobs...dont be a liar now.
I know what I said and when I have said it. Your just conviently ignoring the points I make just because you know them to be true so it's easier to make rubbish up and avoid them.
[quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: They are are not losing their job's ? over 400,000 jobs are to go and the work those 400,00 did will have to be done by those remaining.[/p][/quote]The point of these strikes is they are about terms of pensions, not about loss of jobs, have you got that yet? . Looking at the bigger picture, maybe if they were more accepting of the situation and came to a comprimise on pensions, then maybe there would be enough money to keep people employed. If the unions won't budge then jobs will have to be lost. You can't have it both ways and keep pensions the same whilst keeping the same number of employees.[/p][/quote]You just said they werent losing there jobs ? now they are but it not about that ? this is about making a stand.[/p][/quote]I said the strike action is not about losing jobs it's about protecting pensions. If they were striking about jobs cuts they may have got more sympathy from the public but they aren't striking about jobs cuts. . I noticed you pretty much ignored the valid point I put to you regarding comprimise on pensions might save jobs in the long term.[/p][/quote]no you said they werent losing their jobs...dont be a liar now.[/p][/quote]I know what I said and when I have said it. Your just conviently ignoring the points I make just because you know them to be true so it's easier to make rubbish up and avoid them. Thee Voice of Reason

12:44pm Wed 30 Nov 11

AMDRAM says...

Rubbish - all my friends are teachers and they have all stayed in bed! Half the people I know who are on strike are actually having a day out, not supporting the picket lines or the marches!
Rubbish - all my friends are teachers and they have all stayed in bed! Half the people I know who are on strike are actually having a day out, not supporting the picket lines or the marches! AMDRAM

12:44pm Wed 30 Nov 11

thepointis says...

TirNaNog wrote:
Ooh, look another 'convenient' I've got a business colleague/family friend' story.
Is that sheep I smell.. no wait is it goat.. no it's bull!
I see Gideons 5 year plan to remove 'the deficit' is now a 'rolling' 5 year plan!! That means he'll never have to deliver - not that I thought they ever would. I think he's being optimistic if he thinks he's going to get another go.
well said .
[quote][p][bold]TirNaNog[/bold] wrote: Ooh, look another 'convenient' I've got a business colleague/family friend' story. Is that sheep I smell.. no wait is it goat.. no it's bull! I see Gideons 5 year plan to remove 'the deficit' is now a 'rolling' 5 year plan!! That means he'll never have to deliver - not that I thought they ever would. I think he's being optimistic if he thinks he's going to get another go.[/p][/quote]well said . thepointis

12:47pm Wed 30 Nov 11

thepointis says...

AMDRAM wrote:
Rubbish - all my friends are teachers and they have all stayed in bed! Half the people I know who are on strike are actually having a day out, not supporting the picket lines or the marches!
All your freinds are teachers ? how many ? name them ....im betting you cant.
[quote][p][bold]AMDRAM[/bold] wrote: Rubbish - all my friends are teachers and they have all stayed in bed! Half the people I know who are on strike are actually having a day out, not supporting the picket lines or the marches![/p][/quote]All your freinds are teachers ? how many ? name them ....im betting you cant. thepointis

12:48pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Thee Voice of Reason says...

Farsley Bantam wrote:
thepointis wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
thepointis wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
thepointis wrote: They are are not losing their job's ? over 400,000 jobs are to go and the work those 400,00 did will have to be done by those remaining.
The point of these strikes is they are about terms of pensions, not about loss of jobs, have you got that yet? . Looking at the bigger picture, maybe if they were more accepting of the situation and came to a comprimise on pensions, then maybe there would be enough money to keep people employed. If the unions won't budge then jobs will have to be lost. You can't have it both ways and keep pensions the same whilst keeping the same number of employees.
You just said they werent losing there jobs ? now they are but it not about that ? this is about making a stand.
I said the strike action is not about losing jobs it's about protecting pensions. If they were striking about jobs cuts they may have got more sympathy from the public but they aren't striking about jobs cuts. . I noticed you pretty much ignored the valid point I put to you regarding comprimise on pensions might save jobs in the long term.
no you said they werent losing their jobs...dont be a liar now.
You simpleton. He is not lying at all. If you read what is being said he is saying that the strikes today are about pension cuts and not job cuts. He has aknowledged that there will be job cuts. Your just ignoring the facts and talking like your some kind of martyr.
I'm glad some can understand my points and actually read. Back to school for thepointis, oh they can't as they are closed.
[quote][p][bold]Farsley Bantam[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: They are are not losing their job's ? over 400,000 jobs are to go and the work those 400,00 did will have to be done by those remaining.[/p][/quote]The point of these strikes is they are about terms of pensions, not about loss of jobs, have you got that yet? . Looking at the bigger picture, maybe if they were more accepting of the situation and came to a comprimise on pensions, then maybe there would be enough money to keep people employed. If the unions won't budge then jobs will have to be lost. You can't have it both ways and keep pensions the same whilst keeping the same number of employees.[/p][/quote]You just said they werent losing there jobs ? now they are but it not about that ? this is about making a stand.[/p][/quote]I said the strike action is not about losing jobs it's about protecting pensions. If they were striking about jobs cuts they may have got more sympathy from the public but they aren't striking about jobs cuts. . I noticed you pretty much ignored the valid point I put to you regarding comprimise on pensions might save jobs in the long term.[/p][/quote]no you said they werent losing their jobs...dont be a liar now.[/p][/quote]You simpleton. He is not lying at all. If you read what is being said he is saying that the strikes today are about pension cuts and not job cuts. He has aknowledged that there will be job cuts. Your just ignoring the facts and talking like your some kind of martyr.[/p][/quote]I'm glad some can understand my points and actually read. Back to school for thepointis, oh they can't as they are closed. Thee Voice of Reason

12:51pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Andy2010 says...

thepointis wrote:
AMDRAM wrote: Rubbish - all my friends are teachers and they have all stayed in bed! Half the people I know who are on strike are actually having a day out, not supporting the picket lines or the marches!
All your freinds are teachers ? how many ? name them ....im betting you cant.
Well cant speak for AMDRAM's friend but my brother a teacher at a Bradford primary is currently enjoying himself at the Trafford Centre
[quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]AMDRAM[/bold] wrote: Rubbish - all my friends are teachers and they have all stayed in bed! Half the people I know who are on strike are actually having a day out, not supporting the picket lines or the marches![/p][/quote]All your freinds are teachers ? how many ? name them ....im betting you cant.[/p][/quote]Well cant speak for AMDRAM's friend but my brother a teacher at a Bradford primary is currently enjoying himself at the Trafford Centre Andy2010

12:51pm Wed 30 Nov 11

thepointis says...

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
Thepointis, if all your going to go on about is bankers and MP then please don't bother.
.
There are millions of people in the private sector who are facing losing their jobs as companies try to stay afloat. Look at the redundancies at Gratton, how Thomas Cook nearly went under, TJ Hughes, look at the empty shops in the City center, think of all the small businesses that have disappeared without a trace.
.
The people striking today aren't even losing their jobs so expecting public sympathy when many don't even know if they are going to be in employment in the new year shows you how out of touch these unions are.
no he said these people are not losing their jobs...you are the simpleton.
[quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: Thepointis, if all your going to go on about is bankers and MP then please don't bother. . There are millions of people in the private sector who are facing losing their jobs as companies try to stay afloat. Look at the redundancies at Gratton, how Thomas Cook nearly went under, TJ Hughes, look at the empty shops in the City center, think of all the small businesses that have disappeared without a trace. . The people striking today aren't even losing their jobs so expecting public sympathy when many don't even know if they are going to be in employment in the new year shows you how out of touch these unions are.[/p][/quote]no he said these people are not losing their jobs...you are the simpleton. thepointis

12:53pm Wed 30 Nov 11

thepointis says...

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
Thepointis, if all your going to go on about is bankers and MP then please don't bother.
.
There are millions of people in the private sector who are facing losing their jobs as companies try to stay afloat. Look at the redundancies at Gratton, how Thomas Cook nearly went under, TJ Hughes, look at the empty shops in the City center, think of all the small businesses that have disappeared without a trace.
.
The people striking today aren't even losing their jobs so expecting public sympathy when many don't even know if they are going to be in employment in the new year shows you how out of touch these unions are.
There is it in black and white.
( The people striking today aren't even losing their jobs so expecting public sympathy when many don't even know if they are going to be in employment in the new year shows you how out of touch these unions are.)
[quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: Thepointis, if all your going to go on about is bankers and MP then please don't bother. . There are millions of people in the private sector who are facing losing their jobs as companies try to stay afloat. Look at the redundancies at Gratton, how Thomas Cook nearly went under, TJ Hughes, look at the empty shops in the City center, think of all the small businesses that have disappeared without a trace. . The people striking today aren't even losing their jobs so expecting public sympathy when many don't even know if they are going to be in employment in the new year shows you how out of touch these unions are.[/p][/quote]There is it in black and white. ( The people striking today aren't even losing their jobs so expecting public sympathy when many don't even know if they are going to be in employment in the new year shows you how out of touch these unions are.) thepointis

12:57pm Wed 30 Nov 11

BILLTILL says...

These people are mostly wasters. I worked for the council for number of years before leaving for work in the private sector ,I left to get away from the mind numbing routine and total lack of management ability . The management sit on their a-rses for years just waiting to be offered early retirement and a large golden handshake and then they are off. They stifle all other peoples ability to get on or dismiss ideas to improve things by staff members.
I have done very well thank you in the private sector where these numpties would not last 5 minutes.
Reduce their rediculous pensions and make them all work until 68 before they see a penny of it.
These people are mostly wasters. I worked for the council for number of years before leaving for work in the private sector ,I left to get away from the mind numbing routine and total lack of management ability . The management sit on their a-rses for years just waiting to be offered early retirement and a large golden handshake and then they are off. They stifle all other peoples ability to get on or dismiss ideas to improve things by staff members. I have done very well thank you in the private sector where these numpties would not last 5 minutes. Reduce their rediculous pensions and make them all work until 68 before they see a penny of it. BILLTILL

12:59pm Wed 30 Nov 11

thepointis says...

NOTSOCOMMENSENSE wrote:
thepointis wrote:
NOTSOCOMMENSENSE wrote: Teachers should only get 75% of a pension anyway,most have stopped marking/working at home only work 7 hour days less lunch and have more holidays than mps (@ 12 weeks = 3 months) + some think they have to take the sick days they are allowed and still take an extra weeks worth of days not teaching in training days why can this not be done in scool holiday time. So when your feeling sympathy for these people if your not an mp/teacher think how it compares to your life
so your off school today .
Looks like you stopped at home in the warm instead of joining your comrades on the picket line,
ps are the binmen working todaydoes anybody know?
So in your own words( A family friend of mine heard last week that her chemo treatment was cancelled today because of the strikes.....this just goes to show how everyone in the public sector couldnt give a flying **** about their jobs from teachers to nurses etc etc ....they are all in it for themselves) your brother is one of these people?
[quote][p][bold]NOTSOCOMMENSENSE[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NOTSOCOMMENSENSE[/bold] wrote: Teachers should only get 75% of a pension anyway,most have stopped marking/working at home only work 7 hour days less lunch and have more holidays than mps (@ 12 weeks = 3 months) + some think they have to take the sick days they are allowed and still take an extra weeks worth of days not teaching in training days why can this not be done in scool holiday time. So when your feeling sympathy for these people if your not an mp/teacher think how it compares to your life[/p][/quote]so your off school today .[/p][/quote]Looks like you stopped at home in the warm instead of joining your comrades on the picket line, ps are the binmen working todaydoes anybody know?[/p][/quote]So in your own words( A family friend of mine heard last week that her chemo treatment was cancelled today because of the strikes.....this just goes to show how everyone in the public sector couldnt give a flying **** about their jobs from teachers to nurses etc etc ....they are all in it for themselves) your brother is one of these people? thepointis

1:02pm Wed 30 Nov 11

thepointis says...

BILLTILL wrote:
These people are mostly wasters. I worked for the council for number of years before leaving for work in the private sector ,I left to get away from the mind numbing routine and total lack of management ability . The management sit on their a-rses for years just waiting to be offered early retirement and a large golden handshake and then they are off. They stifle all other peoples ability to get on or dismiss ideas to improve things by staff members.
I have done very well thank you in the private sector where these numpties would not last 5 minutes.
Reduce their rediculous pensions and make them all work until 68 before they see a penny of it.
I agree with you ...about a lot of the managers...but a lot of the workers cannot afford to do what you did....are you saying you used to be one of these timewasters ?
[quote][p][bold]BILLTILL[/bold] wrote: These people are mostly wasters. I worked for the council for number of years before leaving for work in the private sector ,I left to get away from the mind numbing routine and total lack of management ability . The management sit on their a-rses for years just waiting to be offered early retirement and a large golden handshake and then they are off. They stifle all other peoples ability to get on or dismiss ideas to improve things by staff members. I have done very well thank you in the private sector where these numpties would not last 5 minutes. Reduce their rediculous pensions and make them all work until 68 before they see a penny of it.[/p][/quote]I agree with you ...about a lot of the managers...but a lot of the workers cannot afford to do what you did....are you saying you used to be one of these timewasters ? thepointis

1:02pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Adeybull says...

Have you noticed how the handful who are backing the strikes on here have to resort - once again - to derision and insults. Last refuge of those who have lost the argument - if indeed they ever had one in the first place.
.
Funny how the shops are so busy today.
Have you noticed how the handful who are backing the strikes on here have to resort - once again - to derision and insults. Last refuge of those who have lost the argument - if indeed they ever had one in the first place. . Funny how the shops are so busy today. Adeybull

1:02pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Adeybull says...

Have you noticed how the handful who are backing the strikes on here have to resort - once again - to derision and insults. Last refuge of those who have lost the argument - if indeed they ever had one in the first place.
.
Funny how the shops are so busy today.
Have you noticed how the handful who are backing the strikes on here have to resort - once again - to derision and insults. Last refuge of those who have lost the argument - if indeed they ever had one in the first place. . Funny how the shops are so busy today. Adeybull

1:03pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Thee Voice of Reason says...

thepointis wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote: Thepointis, if all your going to go on about is bankers and MP then please don't bother. . There are millions of people in the private sector who are facing losing their jobs as companies try to stay afloat. Look at the redundancies at Gratton, how Thomas Cook nearly went under, TJ Hughes, look at the empty shops in the City center, think of all the small businesses that have disappeared without a trace. . The people striking today aren't even losing their jobs so expecting public sympathy when many don't even know if they are going to be in employment in the new year shows you how out of touch these unions are.
There is it in black and white. ( The people striking today aren't even losing their jobs so expecting public sympathy when many don't even know if they are going to be in employment in the new year shows you how out of touch these unions are.)
The people who are striking today are not striking over losing jobs, they are striking over pensions.
.
They haven't been told their jobs are to go, they are wanting the status quo to exist. Do you really think anyone striking today has been told they are losing their jobs? It's all about their pensions.
[quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: Thepointis, if all your going to go on about is bankers and MP then please don't bother. . There are millions of people in the private sector who are facing losing their jobs as companies try to stay afloat. Look at the redundancies at Gratton, how Thomas Cook nearly went under, TJ Hughes, look at the empty shops in the City center, think of all the small businesses that have disappeared without a trace. . The people striking today aren't even losing their jobs so expecting public sympathy when many don't even know if they are going to be in employment in the new year shows you how out of touch these unions are.[/p][/quote]There is it in black and white. ( The people striking today aren't even losing their jobs so expecting public sympathy when many don't even know if they are going to be in employment in the new year shows you how out of touch these unions are.)[/p][/quote]The people who are striking today are not striking over losing jobs, they are striking over pensions. . They haven't been told their jobs are to go, they are wanting the status quo to exist. Do you really think anyone striking today has been told they are losing their jobs? It's all about their pensions. Thee Voice of Reason

1:07pm Wed 30 Nov 11

thepointis says...

Make no mistake the pensions issue is the straw that broke the camels back and the next step will be further staff reductions....rememb
er this is just the beggining of the process...as I said earlier this is a line in the sand.
Make no mistake the pensions issue is the straw that broke the camels back and the next step will be further staff reductions....rememb er this is just the beggining of the process...as I said earlier this is a line in the sand. thepointis

1:11pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Andy2010 says...

thepointis wrote:
Make no mistake the pensions issue is the straw that broke the camels back and the next step will be further staff reductions....rememb er this is just the beggining of the process...as I said earlier this is a line in the sand.
I hope there is....too many none jobs in the public sector that just simply wouldnt exist in the private sector...and the unions and draw all the lines they want, wont make the slightest bit of difference as the general public is mostly against them in their actions
[quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: Make no mistake the pensions issue is the straw that broke the camels back and the next step will be further staff reductions....rememb er this is just the beggining of the process...as I said earlier this is a line in the sand.[/p][/quote]I hope there is....too many none jobs in the public sector that just simply wouldnt exist in the private sector...and the unions and draw all the lines they want, wont make the slightest bit of difference as the general public is mostly against them in their actions Andy2010

1:11pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Thee Voice of Reason says...

thepointis wrote:
Make no mistake the pensions issue is the straw that broke the camels back and the next step will be further staff reductions....rememb er this is just the beggining of the process...as I said earlier this is a line in the sand.
So lets put it this way.
.
If the government could save 100,000 public sector jobs by renegotiation pensions. Would that not be a price worth paying or would you prefer the status quo to exist on pensions and 100,000 people find themselve out of work?
.
Serious question.
.
As it happens this is similar to what alot of private sector workers have had to do, ie work less days, end up with less money in order to ensure the business they work for still exisits.
.
I'd be interested to hear your own personal thoughts on this and not some union written excuse of why these people should be a special case.
[quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: Make no mistake the pensions issue is the straw that broke the camels back and the next step will be further staff reductions....rememb er this is just the beggining of the process...as I said earlier this is a line in the sand.[/p][/quote]So lets put it this way. . If the government could save 100,000 public sector jobs by renegotiation pensions. Would that not be a price worth paying or would you prefer the status quo to exist on pensions and 100,000 people find themselve out of work? . Serious question. . As it happens this is similar to what alot of private sector workers have had to do, ie work less days, end up with less money in order to ensure the business they work for still exisits. . I'd be interested to hear your own personal thoughts on this and not some union written excuse of why these people should be a special case. Thee Voice of Reason

1:11pm Wed 30 Nov 11

AMDRAM says...

Andy2010 wrote:
thepointis wrote:
AMDRAM wrote: Rubbish - all my friends are teachers and they have all stayed in bed! Half the people I know who are on strike are actually having a day out, not supporting the picket lines or the marches!
All your freinds are teachers ? how many ? name them ....im betting you cant.
Well cant speak for AMDRAM's friend but my brother a teacher at a Bradford primary is currently enjoying himself at the Trafford Centre
Exactly Andy. And "Thepointis" - I have 8 friends who are teachers and why should I bother to name and shame them? They know who they are and if they haven't got a conscience well so be it. They know very well what I think of their antics - if you come out on strike then don't use it as an extra day off!
[quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]AMDRAM[/bold] wrote: Rubbish - all my friends are teachers and they have all stayed in bed! Half the people I know who are on strike are actually having a day out, not supporting the picket lines or the marches![/p][/quote]All your freinds are teachers ? how many ? name them ....im betting you cant.[/p][/quote]Well cant speak for AMDRAM's friend but my brother a teacher at a Bradford primary is currently enjoying himself at the Trafford Centre[/p][/quote]Exactly Andy. And "Thepointis" - I have 8 friends who are teachers and why should I bother to name and shame them? They know who they are and if they haven't got a conscience well so be it. They know very well what I think of their antics - if you come out on strike then don't use it as an extra day off! AMDRAM

1:12pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Adeybull says...

thepointis wrote:
Make no mistake the pensions issue is the straw that broke the camels back and the next step will be further staff reductions....rememb

er this is just the beggining of the process...as I said earlier this is a line in the sand.
Correct. There WILL be further staff reductions.
.
In the wealth-creating private sector, struggling under the increasing burden of paying for a public sector that wants an ever-larger share of a shrinking cake.
[quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: Make no mistake the pensions issue is the straw that broke the camels back and the next step will be further staff reductions....rememb er this is just the beggining of the process...as I said earlier this is a line in the sand.[/p][/quote]Correct. There WILL be further staff reductions. . In the wealth-creating private sector, struggling under the increasing burden of paying for a public sector that wants an ever-larger share of a shrinking cake. Adeybull

1:16pm Wed 30 Nov 11

thepointis says...

After reading your drivel I feel your name is ..deserved.
After reading your drivel I feel your name is ..deserved. thepointis

1:17pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Adeybull says...

QED.
QED. Adeybull

1:19pm Wed 30 Nov 11

thepointis says...

so you want no public services ?
so you want no public services ? thepointis

1:21pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Adeybull says...

Thepointis - Don't try and move the argument because you just lost this one. Another standard tactic of the likes of you.
Thepointis - Don't try and move the argument because you just lost this one. Another standard tactic of the likes of you. Adeybull

1:21pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Adeybull says...

Thepointis - Don't try and move the argument because you just lost this one. Another standard tactic of the likes of you.
Thepointis - Don't try and move the argument because you just lost this one. Another standard tactic of the likes of you. Adeybull

1:23pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Adeybull says...

What I want is fairness. Nothing more. Nothing less.
.
I wonder how many of the strikers have been lied to by their union?
What I want is fairness. Nothing more. Nothing less. . I wonder how many of the strikers have been lied to by their union? Adeybull

1:23pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Andy2010 says...

thepointis wrote:
so you want no public services ?
Everyone wants the service of course they do after all we all pay for it....as for the workforce employed in it and its structures......I can take it or leave it to be honest
[quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: so you want no public services ?[/p][/quote]Everyone wants the service of course they do after all we all pay for it....as for the workforce employed in it and its structures......I can take it or leave it to be honest Andy2010

1:24pm Wed 30 Nov 11

thepointis says...

if you want good public services then in the real world you have to pay people to provide them ...and you have not yet made an argument ...not an adult one ...go back to school (after the strike of course).
if you want good public services then in the real world you have to pay people to provide them ...and you have not yet made an argument ...not an adult one ...go back to school (after the strike of course). thepointis

1:26pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Hulagu says...

We want public services, but at a reasonable cost.
We want public services, but at a reasonable cost. Hulagu

1:30pm Wed 30 Nov 11

noblee says...

Hulagu wrote:
We want public services, but at a reasonable cost.
"Striking NHS staff were manning picket lines at all seven entrances to Bradford Royal Infirmary this morning"

I drove past a little while ago and there were 7 people stood outside the main entrance, all the other entrances were deserted.

Is it me or is there not a lot of support for this strike?
[quote][p][bold]Hulagu[/bold] wrote: We want public services, but at a reasonable cost.[/p][/quote]"Striking NHS staff were manning picket lines at all seven entrances to Bradford Royal Infirmary this morning" I drove past a little while ago and there were 7 people stood outside the main entrance, all the other entrances were deserted. Is it me or is there not a lot of support for this strike? noblee

1:30pm Wed 30 Nov 11

thepointis says...

then your argument is with the government and not hard pressed hard working family breadwinners who provide those services for you.
then your argument is with the government and not hard pressed hard working family breadwinners who provide those services for you. thepointis

1:32pm Wed 30 Nov 11

thepointis says...

noblee wrote:
Hulagu wrote:
We want public services, but at a reasonable cost.
"Striking NHS staff were manning picket lines at all seven entrances to Bradford Royal Infirmary this morning"

I drove past a little while ago and there were 7 people stood outside the main entrance, all the other entrances were deserted.

Is it me or is there not a lot of support for this strike?
they picket then join the mass protest in the city centre.
[quote][p][bold]noblee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Hulagu[/bold] wrote: We want public services, but at a reasonable cost.[/p][/quote]"Striking NHS staff were manning picket lines at all seven entrances to Bradford Royal Infirmary this morning" I drove past a little while ago and there were 7 people stood outside the main entrance, all the other entrances were deserted. Is it me or is there not a lot of support for this strike?[/p][/quote]they picket then join the mass protest in the city centre. thepointis

1:34pm Wed 30 Nov 11

thepointis says...

Adeybull wrote:
What I want is fairness. Nothing more. Nothing less.
.
I wonder how many of the strikers have been lied to by their union?
Then you want what the strikers want ...fairness which seems to be sadly lacking in our fair land these days.
[quote][p][bold]Adeybull[/bold] wrote: What I want is fairness. Nothing more. Nothing less. . I wonder how many of the strikers have been lied to by their union?[/p][/quote]Then you want what the strikers want ...fairness which seems to be sadly lacking in our fair land these days. thepointis

1:36pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Thee Voice of Reason says...

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
thepointis wrote: Make no mistake the pensions issue is the straw that broke the camels back and the next step will be further staff reductions....rememb er this is just the beggining of the process...as I said earlier this is a line in the sand.
So lets put it this way. . If the government could save 100,000 public sector jobs by renegotiation pensions. Would that not be a price worth paying or would you prefer the status quo to exist on pensions and 100,000 people find themselve out of work? . Serious question. . As it happens this is similar to what alot of private sector workers have had to do, ie work less days, end up with less money in order to ensure the business they work for still exisits. . I'd be interested to hear your own personal thoughts on this and not some union written excuse of why these people should be a special case.
Thepointis,
.
This too difficult to answer?
[quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: Make no mistake the pensions issue is the straw that broke the camels back and the next step will be further staff reductions....rememb er this is just the beggining of the process...as I said earlier this is a line in the sand.[/p][/quote]So lets put it this way. . If the government could save 100,000 public sector jobs by renegotiation pensions. Would that not be a price worth paying or would you prefer the status quo to exist on pensions and 100,000 people find themselve out of work? . Serious question. . As it happens this is similar to what alot of private sector workers have had to do, ie work less days, end up with less money in order to ensure the business they work for still exisits. . I'd be interested to hear your own personal thoughts on this and not some union written excuse of why these people should be a special case.[/p][/quote]Thepointis, . This too difficult to answer? Thee Voice of Reason

1:37pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Andy2010 says...

thepointis wrote:
noblee wrote:
Hulagu wrote: We want public services, but at a reasonable cost.
"Striking NHS staff were manning picket lines at all seven entrances to Bradford Royal Infirmary this morning" I drove past a little while ago and there were 7 people stood outside the main entrance, all the other entrances were deserted. Is it me or is there not a lot of support for this strike?
they picket then join the mass protest in the city centre.
Do you mean the "mass" protest pictured on this website which by the looks of it theres about 500 or so people there?

If so where the hell are the rest of the winging strikers....I'd hazard a guess feet up in front of the tele watching Loose Women whilst grumbling about "poor me me me".

Fact is the Private sector have propped up the public sector for years and now its time to rebalance that. If anyone in the Public sector feels bad about this they arent handcuffed to their job. They can leave anytime they want as there are plenty of people out of work looking for an easy job to pass their time of day
[quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]noblee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Hulagu[/bold] wrote: We want public services, but at a reasonable cost.[/p][/quote]"Striking NHS staff were manning picket lines at all seven entrances to Bradford Royal Infirmary this morning" I drove past a little while ago and there were 7 people stood outside the main entrance, all the other entrances were deserted. Is it me or is there not a lot of support for this strike?[/p][/quote]they picket then join the mass protest in the city centre.[/p][/quote]Do you mean the "mass" protest pictured on this website which by the looks of it theres about 500 or so people there? If so where the hell are the rest of the winging strikers....I'd hazard a guess feet up in front of the tele watching Loose Women whilst grumbling about "poor me me me". Fact is the Private sector have propped up the public sector for years and now its time to rebalance that. If anyone in the Public sector feels bad about this they arent handcuffed to their job. They can leave anytime they want as there are plenty of people out of work looking for an easy job to pass their time of day Andy2010

1:39pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Andy2010 says...

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
thepointis wrote: Make no mistake the pensions issue is the straw that broke the camels back and the next step will be further staff reductions....rememb er this is just the beggining of the process...as I said earlier this is a line in the sand.
So lets put it this way. . If the government could save 100,000 public sector jobs by renegotiation pensions. Would that not be a price worth paying or would you prefer the status quo to exist on pensions and 100,000 people find themselve out of work? . Serious question. . As it happens this is similar to what alot of private sector workers have had to do, ie work less days, end up with less money in order to ensure the business they work for still exisits. . I'd be interested to hear your own personal thoughts on this and not some union written excuse of why these people should be a special case.
Thepointis, . This too difficult to answer?
Lol it isnt but as a typical Union supporter he/she cant see further than their own wage slip.

The point is you dont have one
[quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: Make no mistake the pensions issue is the straw that broke the camels back and the next step will be further staff reductions....rememb er this is just the beggining of the process...as I said earlier this is a line in the sand.[/p][/quote]So lets put it this way. . If the government could save 100,000 public sector jobs by renegotiation pensions. Would that not be a price worth paying or would you prefer the status quo to exist on pensions and 100,000 people find themselve out of work? . Serious question. . As it happens this is similar to what alot of private sector workers have had to do, ie work less days, end up with less money in order to ensure the business they work for still exisits. . I'd be interested to hear your own personal thoughts on this and not some union written excuse of why these people should be a special case.[/p][/quote]Thepointis, . This too difficult to answer?[/p][/quote]Lol it isnt but as a typical Union supporter he/she cant see further than their own wage slip. The point is you dont have one Andy2010

1:44pm Wed 30 Nov 11

BILLTILL says...

thepointis wrote:
BILLTILL wrote: These people are mostly wasters. I worked for the council for number of years before leaving for work in the private sector ,I left to get away from the mind numbing routine and total lack of management ability . The management sit on their a-rses for years just waiting to be offered early retirement and a large golden handshake and then they are off. They stifle all other peoples ability to get on or dismiss ideas to improve things by staff members. I have done very well thank you in the private sector where these numpties would not last 5 minutes. Reduce their rediculous pensions and make them all work until 68 before they see a penny of it.
I agree with you ...about a lot of the managers...but a lot of the workers cannot afford to do what you did....are you saying you used to be one of these timewasters ?
thepointis, do you actually read the popints before making your idiotic comments, I left because I wanted to get away from the management wasters.
Why can't people afford to do what I did, are you sure you do not mean they don't have the ability to do it ,that is why they are working their sad lives out with the local council and sitting on thier a-rses waiting the the big early retirement pay off.
I think you might be one of them actually.
[quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BILLTILL[/bold] wrote: These people are mostly wasters. I worked for the council for number of years before leaving for work in the private sector ,I left to get away from the mind numbing routine and total lack of management ability . The management sit on their a-rses for years just waiting to be offered early retirement and a large golden handshake and then they are off. They stifle all other peoples ability to get on or dismiss ideas to improve things by staff members. I have done very well thank you in the private sector where these numpties would not last 5 minutes. Reduce their rediculous pensions and make them all work until 68 before they see a penny of it.[/p][/quote]I agree with you ...about a lot of the managers...but a lot of the workers cannot afford to do what you did....are you saying you used to be one of these timewasters ?[/p][/quote]thepointis, do you actually read the popints before making your idiotic comments, I left because I wanted to get away from the management wasters. Why can't people afford to do what I did, are you sure you do not mean they don't have the ability to do it ,that is why they are working their sad lives out with the local council and sitting on thier a-rses waiting the the big early retirement pay off. I think you might be one of them actually. BILLTILL

1:44pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Victor Clayton says...

thepointis wrote:
TirNaNog wrote: Ooh, look another 'convenient' I've got a business colleague/family friend' story. Is that sheep I smell.. no wait is it goat.. no it's bull! I see Gideons 5 year plan to remove 'the deficit' is now a 'rolling' 5 year plan!! That means he'll never have to deliver - not that I thought they ever would. I think he's being optimistic if he thinks he's going to get another go.
well said .
the bit about Heathrow was also on 5 live. are they fibbing too!
[quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]TirNaNog[/bold] wrote: Ooh, look another 'convenient' I've got a business colleague/family friend' story. Is that sheep I smell.. no wait is it goat.. no it's bull! I see Gideons 5 year plan to remove 'the deficit' is now a 'rolling' 5 year plan!! That means he'll never have to deliver - not that I thought they ever would. I think he's being optimistic if he thinks he's going to get another go.[/p][/quote]well said .[/p][/quote]the bit about Heathrow was also on 5 live. are they fibbing too! Victor Clayton

1:47pm Wed 30 Nov 11

thepointis says...

Andy..I was a nurse for over twenty years...I was assaulted many times during my career but never stopped providing care to patients ...I no longer have a wage and live day to day ...
Andy..I was a nurse for over twenty years...I was assaulted many times during my career but never stopped providing care to patients ...I no longer have a wage and live day to day ... thepointis

2:01pm Wed 30 Nov 11

smallboy says...

NOTSOCOMMENSENSE wrote:
thepointis wrote:
NOTSOCOMMENSENSE wrote: Teachers should only get 75% of a pension anyway,most have stopped marking/working at home only work 7 hour days less lunch and have more holidays than mps (@ 12 weeks = 3 months) + some think they have to take the sick days they are allowed and still take an extra weeks worth of days not teaching in training days why can this not be done in scool holiday time. So when your feeling sympathy for these people if your not an mp/teacher think how it compares to your life
so your off school today .
Looks like you stopped at home in the warm instead of joining your comrades on the picket line,
ps are the binmen working todaydoes anybody know?
my bin men have just come
[quote][p][bold]NOTSOCOMMENSENSE[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NOTSOCOMMENSENSE[/bold] wrote: Teachers should only get 75% of a pension anyway,most have stopped marking/working at home only work 7 hour days less lunch and have more holidays than mps (@ 12 weeks = 3 months) + some think they have to take the sick days they are allowed and still take an extra weeks worth of days not teaching in training days why can this not be done in scool holiday time. So when your feeling sympathy for these people if your not an mp/teacher think how it compares to your life[/p][/quote]so your off school today .[/p][/quote]Looks like you stopped at home in the warm instead of joining your comrades on the picket line, ps are the binmen working todaydoes anybody know?[/p][/quote]my bin men have just come smallboy

2:18pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Andy2010 says...

thepointis wrote:
Andy..I was a nurse for over twenty years...I was assaulted many times during my career but never stopped providing care to patients ...I no longer have a wage and live day to day ...
Good for you but you have stated you "were" a nurse...retired or did you leave?
[quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: Andy..I was a nurse for over twenty years...I was assaulted many times during my career but never stopped providing care to patients ...I no longer have a wage and live day to day ...[/p][/quote]Good for you but you have stated you "were" a nurse...retired or did you leave? Andy2010

2:33pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Hulagu says...

or sacked?
or sacked? Hulagu

2:44pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Thee Voice of Reason says...

I think Thepointis will no doubt disappear as the questions become to difficult to answer and increasingly harder to avoid.
.
He'll pop back up as one of his alter egos, such as Landless Peasent, Vegan Justice, etc.
.
I notice his Vegan Justice alter ego when quiet after he stated all disabled people should just live off the state and benefits.
I think Thepointis will no doubt disappear as the questions become to difficult to answer and increasingly harder to avoid. . He'll pop back up as one of his alter egos, such as Landless Peasent, Vegan Justice, etc. . I notice his Vegan Justice alter ego when quiet after he stated all disabled people should just live off the state and benefits. Thee Voice of Reason

3:28pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Up with the partridge says...

We should congratulate these morons for saving the public purse a day's pay - well done. Just to remind them:
1) Nobody over 50 is affected
2) No low paid workers are affected.
3) Nurses, radiographers, physios etc are in all cases not earning less than £25k per year and in many cases earning over £50k - get real and contribute a realistic amount to your pension folks!
We should congratulate these morons for saving the public purse a day's pay - well done. Just to remind them: 1) Nobody over 50 is affected 2) No low paid workers are affected. 3) Nurses, radiographers, physios etc are in all cases not earning less than £25k per year and in many cases earning over £50k - get real and contribute a realistic amount to your pension folks! Up with the partridge

3:57pm Wed 30 Nov 11

jimandy22 says...

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
bradfordian wrote: I fully support the strikers. This government have cut more public sector jobs than any other job, fact.. When you have lost your services you wi have no right to compain. You cannot have it both ways.
What kind of stupid comment is that. . "This government have cut more public sector jobs than any other job" . The government as the employer can only cut public sector jobs, it can't walk into the private sector and start sacking those people can it? . Anyhow the strikes are not about the cutting of jobs, it the people with jobs who are striking because they are being asked to change to terms which are more affordable to the country as a whole. It's not about cutting jobs.
your a joke, the government can't walk into the private sector and start sacking... no but it DID walk into the private sector (banks) and start pouring billions££ of public money into them when they failed for sh1tting about all day with other people's money.

Did the bankers lose their jobs? no they got a nice MASSIVE bonus this year, courtsey of us, public sector workers and other honest tax payers.

Did we public sector employees get MASSIVE bonuses. No, not even small, not even a cost of living rise, not even a years relief having gone through a huge restructure from another Christmas timed threat of redundancy letter, for the second year in a row.

What would you do I ask if as a worker for the council took a sh1t load of it down to ladbrokes and slammed it all on the nose of a crippled donkey!!!??? would I get sacked would i never be allowed to get anywhere near doing that again. no. but what of those lovely little bankers? they get to do it again, only this time with yours and my hard earned taxes.

Now i don't really go in for strikes and I'm working today, but its not just about pensions, it IS about the job cuts too becasue all of these are the counter-balance to pumping an absolutely meteroic amount of money into the irresponsible, profit seeking, cash driven private banks.

Too big to let them fail my 4rse! your local authorities, schools and hospitals are the ones that should be considered too 'big' (important) to fail, becasue I assure you, you'd be moaning if they weren't here.

So maybe your right they can't go sacking in the private sector, but they've gone doing it in the public sector, and attacked our pensions as a result of the decision to give the t0ssers in Lloyds, Barclays, RBS etc more punting money.
[quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bradfordian[/bold] wrote: I fully support the strikers. This government have cut more public sector jobs than any other job, fact.. When you have lost your services you wi have no right to compain. You cannot have it both ways.[/p][/quote]What kind of stupid comment is that. . "This government have cut more public sector jobs than any other job" . The government as the employer can only cut public sector jobs, it can't walk into the private sector and start sacking those people can it? . Anyhow the strikes are not about the cutting of jobs, it the people with jobs who are striking because they are being asked to change to terms which are more affordable to the country as a whole. It's not about cutting jobs.[/p][/quote]your a joke, the government can't walk into the private sector and start sacking... no but it DID walk into the private sector (banks) and start pouring billions££ of public money into them when they failed for sh1tting about all day with other people's money. Did the bankers lose their jobs? no they got a nice MASSIVE bonus this year, courtsey of us, public sector workers and other honest tax payers. Did we public sector employees get MASSIVE bonuses. No, not even small, not even a cost of living rise, not even a years relief having gone through a huge restructure from another Christmas timed threat of redundancy letter, for the second year in a row. What would you do I ask if as a worker for the council took a sh1t load of it down to ladbrokes and slammed it all on the nose of a crippled donkey!!!??? would I get sacked would i never be allowed to get anywhere near doing that again. no. but what of those lovely little bankers? they get to do it again, only this time with yours and my hard earned taxes. Now i don't really go in for strikes and I'm working today, but its not just about pensions, it IS about the job cuts too becasue all of these are the counter-balance to pumping an absolutely meteroic amount of money into the irresponsible, profit seeking, cash driven private banks. Too big to let them fail my 4rse! your local authorities, schools and hospitals are the ones that should be considered too 'big' (important) to fail, becasue I assure you, you'd be moaning if they weren't here. So maybe your right they can't go sacking in the private sector, but they've gone doing it in the public sector, and attacked our pensions as a result of the decision to give the t0ssers in Lloyds, Barclays, RBS etc more punting money. jimandy22

4:02pm Wed 30 Nov 11

angry bradfordian says...

Up with the partridge wrote:
We should congratulate these morons for saving the public purse a day's pay - well done. Just to remind them:
1) Nobody over 50 is affected
2) No low paid workers are affected.
3) Nurses, radiographers, physios etc are in all cases not earning less than £25k per year and in many cases earning over £50k - get real and contribute a realistic amount to your pension folks!
I suspect that the unions don't want to quote the detail and fine print of the current offer.
If they say they want more they're effectively saying they want the general public to subsidise their pensions and realise that it would make the strikes even less popular.
[quote][p][bold]Up with the partridge[/bold] wrote: We should congratulate these morons for saving the public purse a day's pay - well done. Just to remind them: 1) Nobody over 50 is affected 2) No low paid workers are affected. 3) Nurses, radiographers, physios etc are in all cases not earning less than £25k per year and in many cases earning over £50k - get real and contribute a realistic amount to your pension folks![/p][/quote]I suspect that the unions don't want to quote the detail and fine print of the current offer. If they say they want more they're effectively saying they want the general public to subsidise their pensions and realise that it would make the strikes even less popular. angry bradfordian

4:04pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Oldwestbowling says...

flashdonut wrote:
thepointis wrote:
All that you pay the public servants pay they pay tax too ...they pay for their own pensions .
Lets sack the person who works next to YOU and you can do his work...then we will increase what you have to pay for your pension and make it so you have to work an extra 5 or 6 years...and as a bonus when you get your pension it will be worth 25 percent less....yaaay .
Oh wait a minute in the mean time we are going to give you 90 days notice then sack you and rehire you but on less money .
What do you expect them to do sit there and take it ? if so go and buy a pair of extra long slippers and a red nose i have the perfect job for you.
Errr. The recession forced my company to make redundancies. So I do have to do other peoples work. I have not had a pay rise in 4 years. We were also asked to take a 20% pay reduction every 3rd month to avoid more redundancies (this lasted for 14months) So I am worse off. A lot of of the Public Sector got a pay rise - even though there was a pay freeze. Because you moved up the scale in your payment band. I know this, because my sister is a teacher.
.
I took it. Because that is how the world is at the moment. Sure I want 3% pay increase every year, and I don't want to have to work 9 and a half hour days and Saturday mornings when I am contracted to a 39 hour week.
.
But when my alarm goes off, i wake up in 2011, in England. Not in a Fairy Tale or some make believe land.
The country (and the rst of the world more or less) is crocked. Admit it, except it, move on.
Are you seriously telling us that you are working for 80% less pay?
[quote][p][bold]flashdonut[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: All that you pay the public servants pay they pay tax too ...they pay for their own pensions . Lets sack the person who works next to YOU and you can do his work...then we will increase what you have to pay for your pension and make it so you have to work an extra 5 or 6 years...and as a bonus when you get your pension it will be worth 25 percent less....yaaay . Oh wait a minute in the mean time we are going to give you 90 days notice then sack you and rehire you but on less money . What do you expect them to do sit there and take it ? if so go and buy a pair of extra long slippers and a red nose i have the perfect job for you.[/p][/quote]Errr. The recession forced my company to make redundancies. So I do have to do other peoples work. I have not had a pay rise in 4 years. We were also asked to take a 20% pay reduction every 3rd month to avoid more redundancies (this lasted for 14months) So I am worse off. A lot of of the Public Sector got a pay rise - even though there was a pay freeze. Because you moved up the scale in your payment band. I know this, because my sister is a teacher. . I took it. Because that is how the world is at the moment. Sure I want 3% pay increase every year, and I don't want to have to work 9 and a half hour days and Saturday mornings when I am contracted to a 39 hour week. . But when my alarm goes off, i wake up in 2011, in England. Not in a Fairy Tale or some make believe land. The country (and the rst of the world more or less) is crocked. Admit it, except it, move on.[/p][/quote]Are you seriously telling us that you are working for 80% less pay? Oldwestbowling

4:09pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Old Peculiar says...

Moaning on and on about how the bankers have bent us all over, we know, we are all suffering as a result of bad decisions - and as you rightly say, we are all paying for it. But, why should you - as public sector workers, not suffer the same concequences (job cuts, pay freezes / reductions, rationalising of pensions) that those in the private sector are reasling ? If your golden pension pots are guaranteed, then who is going to chip in the missing millions ? It won't be the bankers will it ??
Moaning on and on about how the bankers have bent us all over, we know, we are all suffering as a result of bad decisions - and as you rightly say, we are all paying for it. But, why should you - as public sector workers, not suffer the same concequences (job cuts, pay freezes / reductions, rationalising of pensions) that those in the private sector are reasling ? If your golden pension pots are guaranteed, then who is going to chip in the missing millions ? It won't be the bankers will it ?? Old Peculiar

4:11pm Wed 30 Nov 11

angry bradfordian says...

Oldwestbowling wrote:
flashdonut wrote:
thepointis wrote:
All that you pay the public servants pay they pay tax too ...they pay for their own pensions .
Lets sack the person who works next to YOU and you can do his work...then we will increase what you have to pay for your pension and make it so you have to work an extra 5 or 6 years...and as a bonus when you get your pension it will be worth 25 percent less....yaaay .
Oh wait a minute in the mean time we are going to give you 90 days notice then sack you and rehire you but on less money .
What do you expect them to do sit there and take it ? if so go and buy a pair of extra long slippers and a red nose i have the perfect job for you.
Errr. The recession forced my company to make redundancies. So I do have to do other peoples work. I have not had a pay rise in 4 years. We were also asked to take a 20% pay reduction every 3rd month to avoid more redundancies (this lasted for 14months) So I am worse off. A lot of of the Public Sector got a pay rise - even though there was a pay freeze. Because you moved up the scale in your payment band. I know this, because my sister is a teacher.
.
I took it. Because that is how the world is at the moment. Sure I want 3% pay increase every year, and I don't want to have to work 9 and a half hour days and Saturday mornings when I am contracted to a 39 hour week.
.
But when my alarm goes off, i wake up in 2011, in England. Not in a Fairy Tale or some make believe land.
The country (and the rst of the world more or less) is crocked. Admit it, except it, move on.
Are you seriously telling us that you are working for 80% less pay?
Er, no he/she said they had a 20% pay reduction every third month. That'll be roughly 7% less pay.
[quote][p][bold]Oldwestbowling[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]flashdonut[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: All that you pay the public servants pay they pay tax too ...they pay for their own pensions . Lets sack the person who works next to YOU and you can do his work...then we will increase what you have to pay for your pension and make it so you have to work an extra 5 or 6 years...and as a bonus when you get your pension it will be worth 25 percent less....yaaay . Oh wait a minute in the mean time we are going to give you 90 days notice then sack you and rehire you but on less money . What do you expect them to do sit there and take it ? if so go and buy a pair of extra long slippers and a red nose i have the perfect job for you.[/p][/quote]Errr. The recession forced my company to make redundancies. So I do have to do other peoples work. I have not had a pay rise in 4 years. We were also asked to take a 20% pay reduction every 3rd month to avoid more redundancies (this lasted for 14months) So I am worse off. A lot of of the Public Sector got a pay rise - even though there was a pay freeze. Because you moved up the scale in your payment band. I know this, because my sister is a teacher. . I took it. Because that is how the world is at the moment. Sure I want 3% pay increase every year, and I don't want to have to work 9 and a half hour days and Saturday mornings when I am contracted to a 39 hour week. . But when my alarm goes off, i wake up in 2011, in England. Not in a Fairy Tale or some make believe land. The country (and the rst of the world more or less) is crocked. Admit it, except it, move on.[/p][/quote]Are you seriously telling us that you are working for 80% less pay?[/p][/quote]Er, no he/she said they had a 20% pay reduction every third month. That'll be roughly 7% less pay. angry bradfordian

4:18pm Wed 30 Nov 11

angry bradfordian says...

jimandy22 wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
bradfordian wrote: I fully support the strikers. This government have cut more public sector jobs than any other job, fact.. When you have lost your services you wi have no right to compain. You cannot have it both ways.
What kind of stupid comment is that. . "This government have cut more public sector jobs than any other job" . The government as the employer can only cut public sector jobs, it can't walk into the private sector and start sacking those people can it? . Anyhow the strikes are not about the cutting of jobs, it the people with jobs who are striking because they are being asked to change to terms which are more affordable to the country as a whole. It's not about cutting jobs.
your a joke, the government can't walk into the private sector and start sacking... no but it DID walk into the private sector (banks) and start pouring billions££ of public money into them when they failed for sh1tting about all day with other people's money.

Did the bankers lose their jobs? no they got a nice MASSIVE bonus this year, courtsey of us, public sector workers and other honest tax payers.

Did we public sector employees get MASSIVE bonuses. No, not even small, not even a cost of living rise, not even a years relief having gone through a huge restructure from another Christmas timed threat of redundancy letter, for the second year in a row.

What would you do I ask if as a worker for the council took a sh1t load of it down to ladbrokes and slammed it all on the nose of a crippled donkey!!!??? would I get sacked would i never be allowed to get anywhere near doing that again. no. but what of those lovely little bankers? they get to do it again, only this time with yours and my hard earned taxes.

Now i don't really go in for strikes and I'm working today, but its not just about pensions, it IS about the job cuts too becasue all of these are the counter-balance to pumping an absolutely meteroic amount of money into the irresponsible, profit seeking, cash driven private banks.

Too big to let them fail my 4rse! your local authorities, schools and hospitals are the ones that should be considered too 'big' (important) to fail, becasue I assure you, you'd be moaning if they weren't here.

So maybe your right they can't go sacking in the private sector, but they've gone doing it in the public sector, and attacked our pensions as a result of the decision to give the t0ssers in Lloyds, Barclays, RBS etc more punting money.
When you use the phrase 'bankers' I assume you're referring only to the hundreds of high level people who made these bad decisions.
There are probably 99% of people who work in finance who don't get bonuses and didn't make any dodgy decisions.
There are millions of people in every day jobs who had nothing to do with any of this (other than taking on mortgages they couldn't afford)
YET, you are suggesting that all these people should keep paying more tax just to keep an unsustainable pension scheme going?
[quote][p][bold]jimandy22[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bradfordian[/bold] wrote: I fully support the strikers. This government have cut more public sector jobs than any other job, fact.. When you have lost your services you wi have no right to compain. You cannot have it both ways.[/p][/quote]What kind of stupid comment is that. . "This government have cut more public sector jobs than any other job" . The government as the employer can only cut public sector jobs, it can't walk into the private sector and start sacking those people can it? . Anyhow the strikes are not about the cutting of jobs, it the people with jobs who are striking because they are being asked to change to terms which are more affordable to the country as a whole. It's not about cutting jobs.[/p][/quote]your a joke, the government can't walk into the private sector and start sacking... no but it DID walk into the private sector (banks) and start pouring billions££ of public money into them when they failed for sh1tting about all day with other people's money. Did the bankers lose their jobs? no they got a nice MASSIVE bonus this year, courtsey of us, public sector workers and other honest tax payers. Did we public sector employees get MASSIVE bonuses. No, not even small, not even a cost of living rise, not even a years relief having gone through a huge restructure from another Christmas timed threat of redundancy letter, for the second year in a row. What would you do I ask if as a worker for the council took a sh1t load of it down to ladbrokes and slammed it all on the nose of a crippled donkey!!!??? would I get sacked would i never be allowed to get anywhere near doing that again. no. but what of those lovely little bankers? they get to do it again, only this time with yours and my hard earned taxes. Now i don't really go in for strikes and I'm working today, but its not just about pensions, it IS about the job cuts too becasue all of these are the counter-balance to pumping an absolutely meteroic amount of money into the irresponsible, profit seeking, cash driven private banks. Too big to let them fail my 4rse! your local authorities, schools and hospitals are the ones that should be considered too 'big' (important) to fail, becasue I assure you, you'd be moaning if they weren't here. So maybe your right they can't go sacking in the private sector, but they've gone doing it in the public sector, and attacked our pensions as a result of the decision to give the t0ssers in Lloyds, Barclays, RBS etc more punting money.[/p][/quote]When you use the phrase 'bankers' I assume you're referring only to the hundreds of high level people who made these bad decisions. There are probably 99% of people who work in finance who don't get bonuses and didn't make any dodgy decisions. There are millions of people in every day jobs who had nothing to do with any of this (other than taking on mortgages they couldn't afford) YET, you are suggesting that all these people should keep paying more tax just to keep an unsustainable pension scheme going? angry bradfordian

4:23pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Thee Voice of Reason says...

jimandy22 wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
bradfordian wrote: I fully support the strikers. This government have cut more public sector jobs than any other job, fact.. When you have lost your services you wi have no right to compain. You cannot have it both ways.
What kind of stupid comment is that. . "This government have cut more public sector jobs than any other job" . The government as the employer can only cut public sector jobs, it can't walk into the private sector and start sacking those people can it? . Anyhow the strikes are not about the cutting of jobs, it the people with jobs who are striking because they are being asked to change to terms which are more affordable to the country as a whole. It's not about cutting jobs.
your a joke, the government can't walk into the private sector and start sacking... no but it DID walk into the private sector (banks) and start pouring billions££ of public money into them when they failed for sh1tting about all day with other people's money. Did the bankers lose their jobs? no they got a nice MASSIVE bonus this year, courtsey of us, public sector workers and other honest tax payers. Did we public sector employees get MASSIVE bonuses. No, not even small, not even a cost of living rise, not even a years relief having gone through a huge restructure from another Christmas timed threat of redundancy letter, for the second year in a row. What would you do I ask if as a worker for the council took a sh1t load of it down to ladbrokes and slammed it all on the nose of a crippled donkey!!!??? would I get sacked would i never be allowed to get anywhere near doing that again. no. but what of those lovely little bankers? they get to do it again, only this time with yours and my hard earned taxes. Now i don't really go in for strikes and I'm working today, but its not just about pensions, it IS about the job cuts too becasue all of these are the counter-balance to pumping an absolutely meteroic amount of money into the irresponsible, profit seeking, cash driven private banks. Too big to let them fail my 4rse! your local authorities, schools and hospitals are the ones that should be considered too 'big' (important) to fail, becasue I assure you, you'd be moaning if they weren't here. So maybe your right they can't go sacking in the private sector, but they've gone doing it in the public sector, and attacked our pensions as a result of the decision to give the t0ssers in Lloyds, Barclays, RBS etc more punting money.
Thats was the Labour government who did that, the people in power now didn't make the desisions on the bank and they have to clear up the mess the other left.
.
Hundreds of thousands of private sector jobs went over night. Gratton is just up the road, they all suffered but they suffered 2 years ago so don't think your a special case.
.
Would you prefer to have your pension stay as it is, or would you accept a change in pension to enable more people to be kept in work?
.
It may come as a shock but not everyone in the private sector is a banker and not everyone in the private sector has been getting massive bonuses or pay rises. Infact many have had it worse than those who were on strike today.
[quote][p][bold]jimandy22[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bradfordian[/bold] wrote: I fully support the strikers. This government have cut more public sector jobs than any other job, fact.. When you have lost your services you wi have no right to compain. You cannot have it both ways.[/p][/quote]What kind of stupid comment is that. . "This government have cut more public sector jobs than any other job" . The government as the employer can only cut public sector jobs, it can't walk into the private sector and start sacking those people can it? . Anyhow the strikes are not about the cutting of jobs, it the people with jobs who are striking because they are being asked to change to terms which are more affordable to the country as a whole. It's not about cutting jobs.[/p][/quote]your a joke, the government can't walk into the private sector and start sacking... no but it DID walk into the private sector (banks) and start pouring billions££ of public money into them when they failed for sh1tting about all day with other people's money. Did the bankers lose their jobs? no they got a nice MASSIVE bonus this year, courtsey of us, public sector workers and other honest tax payers. Did we public sector employees get MASSIVE bonuses. No, not even small, not even a cost of living rise, not even a years relief having gone through a huge restructure from another Christmas timed threat of redundancy letter, for the second year in a row. What would you do I ask if as a worker for the council took a sh1t load of it down to ladbrokes and slammed it all on the nose of a crippled donkey!!!??? would I get sacked would i never be allowed to get anywhere near doing that again. no. but what of those lovely little bankers? they get to do it again, only this time with yours and my hard earned taxes. Now i don't really go in for strikes and I'm working today, but its not just about pensions, it IS about the job cuts too becasue all of these are the counter-balance to pumping an absolutely meteroic amount of money into the irresponsible, profit seeking, cash driven private banks. Too big to let them fail my 4rse! your local authorities, schools and hospitals are the ones that should be considered too 'big' (important) to fail, becasue I assure you, you'd be moaning if they weren't here. So maybe your right they can't go sacking in the private sector, but they've gone doing it in the public sector, and attacked our pensions as a result of the decision to give the t0ssers in Lloyds, Barclays, RBS etc more punting money.[/p][/quote]Thats was the Labour government who did that, the people in power now didn't make the desisions on the bank and they have to clear up the mess the other left. . Hundreds of thousands of private sector jobs went over night. Gratton is just up the road, they all suffered but they suffered 2 years ago so don't think your a special case. . Would you prefer to have your pension stay as it is, or would you accept a change in pension to enable more people to be kept in work? . It may come as a shock but not everyone in the private sector is a banker and not everyone in the private sector has been getting massive bonuses or pay rises. Infact many have had it worse than those who were on strike today. Thee Voice of Reason

4:24pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Yorkshire Lass says...

The comments on here are very interesting today. But no one has touched on the fact that when the Tories are in power it takes so much power from the Unions that they get on their high horses and use you poor workers as scape goats. After Margaret Thatcher crushed the unions in the 1980s they seem to disappear for a while. However under the last Labour rule they became rich again and in spite of you ordinary workers paying your subs every month, they get at least £500,000, from most of the Labour councils in this country. This money is yours and mine so really, you workers are paying twice for them to stay in top hotels, have great meals, great transport etc. etc. So they incite the normal worker to hopefully, bring down the Government. Hope you are all enjoying your day off, doing the Unions dirty work for them. If you have lost a day's pay today, remember that any Union member who has travelled to "support your caused" will be sat in a five star hotel tonight, free food and drinks, at your expense.
The comments on here are very interesting today. But no one has touched on the fact that when the Tories are in power it takes so much power from the Unions that they get on their high horses and use you poor workers as scape goats. After Margaret Thatcher crushed the unions in the 1980s they seem to disappear for a while. However under the last Labour rule they became rich again and in spite of you ordinary workers paying your subs every month, they get at least £500,000, from most of the Labour councils in this country. This money is yours and mine so really, you workers are paying twice for them to stay in top hotels, have great meals, great transport etc. etc. So they incite the normal worker to hopefully, bring down the Government. Hope you are all enjoying your day off, doing the Unions dirty work for them. If you have lost a day's pay today, remember that any Union member who has travelled to "support your caused" will be sat in a five star hotel tonight, free food and drinks, at your expense. Yorkshire Lass

4:27pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Hulagu says...

Who took public borrowing to record levels - Labour
Who raided pension funds to finance borrowing - Labour
Who bailed out the banks - Labour
Who encouraged banks to undertake the reckless lending - Labour

Who's fault is it the country has run out of money.....
Altogether now ..... THE TORIES
Who took public borrowing to record levels - Labour Who raided pension funds to finance borrowing - Labour Who bailed out the banks - Labour Who encouraged banks to undertake the reckless lending - Labour Who's fault is it the country has run out of money..... Altogether now ..... THE TORIES Hulagu

4:30pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Adeybull says...

Have you noticed that the ONLY private sector people those who seek to justify the strikes can ever point to are the bankers and the MPs? And I bet they do not even realise that it is only a small proportion of bank employees they are talking about anyway. I bet "ordinary" bank staff are sick and tired of being made to feel pariahs because of the disgraceful behaviour of the few?
.
So, just so we get this right: the scandalous conduct of a very few thousand people justifies them inflicting pain and hardship on the tens of millions who are not employed in the public sector? is that right? It justifies THEM seeking to do, on a smaller scale, precisely what they accuse those scumbags of doing? Which is stealing a bigger share of the cake to the detriment of the large majority? Is that right?
.
Come on you apologists for the strikers - IS IT????
.
I saw some guy being quoted on the Sky news website earlier:
.
"Refuse supervisor Phil Lane from Sefton will be marching and said: "Me and my colleagues are firm. Make no mistake, this day is needed to make the Government change its mind."
.
Having worked for the council for 36 years, Mr Lane planned to retire in three years' time aged 62 .
.
Under the changes, he said he will need to work for four more years and put more money in the pot."
.
Can anyone spot what is wrong with this? the existing entitlements are ring-fenced. No changes. The changes are not anyway likely to impact until (it looks like) April 2013. Oh, and HMG has already said that no-one within ten years of retirement will be any worse off anyway. So where does he get the four more years (to 66...) from?
.
I submit this gentleman is either lying or, as seems more likely, very badly misled.
.
as, I believe, are a very considerable number of his fellow strikers. Certainly, every single person in the public sector to whom i have spoken about their pensions had indeed been misled. By their union. I hope they enjoy being cannon-fodder for the Earl Haigs running their unions? Maybe when they realise, there may be a day of reckoning?
.
btw, my wife is due to retire from the NHS in 2016 - so this is a subject I have done some research into!
Have you noticed that the ONLY private sector people those who seek to justify the strikes can ever point to are the bankers and the MPs? And I bet they do not even realise that it is only a small proportion of bank employees they are talking about anyway. I bet "ordinary" bank staff are sick and tired of being made to feel pariahs because of the disgraceful behaviour of the few? . So, just so we get this right: the scandalous conduct of a very few thousand people justifies them inflicting pain and hardship on the tens of millions who are not employed in the public sector? is that right? It justifies THEM seeking to do, on a smaller scale, precisely what they accuse those scumbags of doing? Which is stealing a bigger share of the cake to the detriment of the large majority? Is that right? . Come on you apologists for the strikers - IS IT???? . I saw some guy being quoted on the Sky news website earlier: . "Refuse supervisor Phil Lane from Sefton will be marching and said: "Me and my colleagues are firm. Make no mistake, this day is needed to make the Government change its mind." . Having worked for the council for 36 years, Mr Lane planned to retire in three years' time aged 62 [so he is about 59]. . Under the changes, he said he will need to work for four more years and put more money in the pot." . Can anyone spot what is wrong with this? the existing entitlements are ring-fenced. No changes. The changes are not anyway likely to impact until (it looks like) April 2013. Oh, and HMG has already said that no-one within ten years of retirement will be any worse off anyway. So where does he get the four more years (to 66...) from? . I submit this gentleman is either lying or, as seems more likely, very badly misled. . as, I believe, are a very considerable number of his fellow strikers. Certainly, every single person in the public sector to whom i have spoken about their pensions had indeed been misled. By their union. I hope they enjoy being cannon-fodder for the Earl Haigs running their unions? Maybe when they realise, there may be a day of reckoning? . btw, my wife is due to retire from the NHS in 2016 - so this is a subject I have done some research into! Adeybull

4:31pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Thee Voice of Reason says...

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
jimandy22 wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
bradfordian wrote: I fully support the strikers. This government have cut more public sector jobs than any other job, fact.. When you have lost your services you wi have no right to compain. You cannot have it both ways.
What kind of stupid comment is that. . "This government have cut more public sector jobs than any other job" . The government as the employer can only cut public sector jobs, it can't walk into the private sector and start sacking those people can it? . Anyhow the strikes are not about the cutting of jobs, it the people with jobs who are striking because they are being asked to change to terms which are more affordable to the country as a whole. It's not about cutting jobs.
your a joke, the government can't walk into the private sector and start sacking... no but it DID walk into the private sector (banks) and start pouring billions££ of public money into them when they failed for sh1tting about all day with other people's money. Did the bankers lose their jobs? no they got a nice MASSIVE bonus this year, courtsey of us, public sector workers and other honest tax payers. Did we public sector employees get MASSIVE bonuses. No, not even small, not even a cost of living rise, not even a years relief having gone through a huge restructure from another Christmas timed threat of redundancy letter, for the second year in a row. What would you do I ask if as a worker for the council took a sh1t load of it down to ladbrokes and slammed it all on the nose of a crippled donkey!!!??? would I get sacked would i never be allowed to get anywhere near doing that again. no. but what of those lovely little bankers? they get to do it again, only this time with yours and my hard earned taxes. Now i don't really go in for strikes and I'm working today, but its not just about pensions, it IS about the job cuts too becasue all of these are the counter-balance to pumping an absolutely meteroic amount of money into the irresponsible, profit seeking, cash driven private banks. Too big to let them fail my 4rse! your local authorities, schools and hospitals are the ones that should be considered too 'big' (important) to fail, becasue I assure you, you'd be moaning if they weren't here. So maybe your right they can't go sacking in the private sector, but they've gone doing it in the public sector, and attacked our pensions as a result of the decision to give the t0ssers in Lloyds, Barclays, RBS etc more punting money.
Thats was the Labour government who did that, the people in power now didn't make the desisions on the bank and they have to clear up the mess the other left. . Hundreds of thousands of private sector jobs went over night. Gratton is just up the road, they all suffered but they suffered 2 years ago so don't think your a special case. . Would you prefer to have your pension stay as it is, or would you accept a change in pension to enable more people to be kept in work? . It may come as a shock but not everyone in the private sector is a banker and not everyone in the private sector has been getting massive bonuses or pay rises. Infact many have had it worse than those who were on strike today.
BTW, why not ask your boss Tony Reeves why his isn't having his pay cut or why his job isn't on the line. At £200k a year a 10% cut would probably pay for the pension contributions of a whole department for a year, or keep a few part time staff employed.
.
If anything it's people being paid stupid money like this (more than the PM) in the public sector who are making it so there isn't enought money to fund the public sector.
[quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jimandy22[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bradfordian[/bold] wrote: I fully support the strikers. This government have cut more public sector jobs than any other job, fact.. When you have lost your services you wi have no right to compain. You cannot have it both ways.[/p][/quote]What kind of stupid comment is that. . "This government have cut more public sector jobs than any other job" . The government as the employer can only cut public sector jobs, it can't walk into the private sector and start sacking those people can it? . Anyhow the strikes are not about the cutting of jobs, it the people with jobs who are striking because they are being asked to change to terms which are more affordable to the country as a whole. It's not about cutting jobs.[/p][/quote]your a joke, the government can't walk into the private sector and start sacking... no but it DID walk into the private sector (banks) and start pouring billions££ of public money into them when they failed for sh1tting about all day with other people's money. Did the bankers lose their jobs? no they got a nice MASSIVE bonus this year, courtsey of us, public sector workers and other honest tax payers. Did we public sector employees get MASSIVE bonuses. No, not even small, not even a cost of living rise, not even a years relief having gone through a huge restructure from another Christmas timed threat of redundancy letter, for the second year in a row. What would you do I ask if as a worker for the council took a sh1t load of it down to ladbrokes and slammed it all on the nose of a crippled donkey!!!??? would I get sacked would i never be allowed to get anywhere near doing that again. no. but what of those lovely little bankers? they get to do it again, only this time with yours and my hard earned taxes. Now i don't really go in for strikes and I'm working today, but its not just about pensions, it IS about the job cuts too becasue all of these are the counter-balance to pumping an absolutely meteroic amount of money into the irresponsible, profit seeking, cash driven private banks. Too big to let them fail my 4rse! your local authorities, schools and hospitals are the ones that should be considered too 'big' (important) to fail, becasue I assure you, you'd be moaning if they weren't here. So maybe your right they can't go sacking in the private sector, but they've gone doing it in the public sector, and attacked our pensions as a result of the decision to give the t0ssers in Lloyds, Barclays, RBS etc more punting money.[/p][/quote]Thats was the Labour government who did that, the people in power now didn't make the desisions on the bank and they have to clear up the mess the other left. . Hundreds of thousands of private sector jobs went over night. Gratton is just up the road, they all suffered but they suffered 2 years ago so don't think your a special case. . Would you prefer to have your pension stay as it is, or would you accept a change in pension to enable more people to be kept in work? . It may come as a shock but not everyone in the private sector is a banker and not everyone in the private sector has been getting massive bonuses or pay rises. Infact many have had it worse than those who were on strike today.[/p][/quote]BTW, why not ask your boss Tony Reeves why his isn't having his pay cut or why his job isn't on the line. At £200k a year a 10% cut would probably pay for the pension contributions of a whole department for a year, or keep a few part time staff employed. . If anything it's people being paid stupid money like this (more than the PM) in the public sector who are making it so there isn't enought money to fund the public sector. Thee Voice of Reason

4:34pm Wed 30 Nov 11

SellingEnglandByThePound says...

Adeybull wrote:
Have you noticed that the ONLY private sector people those who seek to justify the strikes can ever point to are the bankers and the MPs? And I bet they do not even realise that it is only a small proportion of bank employees they are talking about anyway. I bet "ordinary" bank staff are sick and tired of being made to feel pariahs because of the disgraceful behaviour of the few?
.
So, just so we get this right: the scandalous conduct of a very few thousand people justifies them inflicting pain and hardship on the tens of millions who are not employed in the public sector? is that right? It justifies THEM seeking to do, on a smaller scale, precisely what they accuse those scumbags of doing? Which is stealing a bigger share of the cake to the detriment of the large majority? Is that right?
.
Come on you apologists for the strikers - IS IT????
.
I saw some guy being quoted on the Sky news website earlier:
.
"Refuse supervisor Phil Lane from Sefton will be marching and said: "Me and my colleagues are firm. Make no mistake, this day is needed to make the Government change its mind."
.
Having worked for the council for 36 years, Mr Lane planned to retire in three years' time aged 62 .
.
Under the changes, he said he will need to work for four more years and put more money in the pot."
.
Can anyone spot what is wrong with this? the existing entitlements are ring-fenced. No changes. The changes are not anyway likely to impact until (it looks like) April 2013. Oh, and HMG has already said that no-one within ten years of retirement will be any worse off anyway. So where does he get the four more years (to 66...) from?
.
I submit this gentleman is either lying or, as seems more likely, very badly misled.
.
as, I believe, are a very considerable number of his fellow strikers. Certainly, every single person in the public sector to whom i have spoken about their pensions had indeed been misled. By their union. I hope they enjoy being cannon-fodder for the Earl Haigs running their unions? Maybe when they realise, there may be a day of reckoning?
.
btw, my wife is due to retire from the NHS in 2016 - so this is a subject I have done some research into!
Cracking post Adey, and from a fellow Bulls fan to boot!
[quote][p][bold]Adeybull[/bold] wrote: Have you noticed that the ONLY private sector people those who seek to justify the strikes can ever point to are the bankers and the MPs? And I bet they do not even realise that it is only a small proportion of bank employees they are talking about anyway. I bet "ordinary" bank staff are sick and tired of being made to feel pariahs because of the disgraceful behaviour of the few? . So, just so we get this right: the scandalous conduct of a very few thousand people justifies them inflicting pain and hardship on the tens of millions who are not employed in the public sector? is that right? It justifies THEM seeking to do, on a smaller scale, precisely what they accuse those scumbags of doing? Which is stealing a bigger share of the cake to the detriment of the large majority? Is that right? . Come on you apologists for the strikers - IS IT???? . I saw some guy being quoted on the Sky news website earlier: . "Refuse supervisor Phil Lane from Sefton will be marching and said: "Me and my colleagues are firm. Make no mistake, this day is needed to make the Government change its mind." . Having worked for the council for 36 years, Mr Lane planned to retire in three years' time aged 62 [so he is about 59]. . Under the changes, he said he will need to work for four more years and put more money in the pot." . Can anyone spot what is wrong with this? the existing entitlements are ring-fenced. No changes. The changes are not anyway likely to impact until (it looks like) April 2013. Oh, and HMG has already said that no-one within ten years of retirement will be any worse off anyway. So where does he get the four more years (to 66...) from? . I submit this gentleman is either lying or, as seems more likely, very badly misled. . as, I believe, are a very considerable number of his fellow strikers. Certainly, every single person in the public sector to whom i have spoken about their pensions had indeed been misled. By their union. I hope they enjoy being cannon-fodder for the Earl Haigs running their unions? Maybe when they realise, there may be a day of reckoning? . btw, my wife is due to retire from the NHS in 2016 - so this is a subject I have done some research into![/p][/quote]Cracking post Adey, and from a fellow Bulls fan to boot! SellingEnglandByThePound

4:36pm Wed 30 Nov 11

angry bradfordian says...

Hulagu wrote:
Who took public borrowing to record levels - Labour
Who raided pension funds to finance borrowing - Labour
Who bailed out the banks - Labour
Who encouraged banks to undertake the reckless lending - Labour

Who's fault is it the country has run out of money.....
Altogether now ..... THE TORIES
And who ignored all this whilst it was going on....

THE UNIONS
[quote][p][bold]Hulagu[/bold] wrote: Who took public borrowing to record levels - Labour Who raided pension funds to finance borrowing - Labour Who bailed out the banks - Labour Who encouraged banks to undertake the reckless lending - Labour Who's fault is it the country has run out of money..... Altogether now ..... THE TORIES[/p][/quote]And who ignored all this whilst it was going on.... THE UNIONS angry bradfordian

4:39pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Adeybull says...

"If anything it's people being paid stupid money like this (more than the PM) in the public sector who are making it so there isn't enought money to fund the public sector."
.
...is the RIGHT answer.
.
And it is the higher-paid who stand to lose out most - NOT the lower-paid.
.
Can you see now why senior officials in the public sector are backing the strikes? And yes, that includes head teachers. THEY will be the biggest losers, but they know they will receive the least sympathy from the public. So they are very happy indeed for all the lower-paid cannon-fodder to do their dirty work for them, and seek to gain public sympathy. When a large proportion of the lower-paid will be less-affected by the changes that they are?
"If anything it's people being paid stupid money like this (more than the PM) in the public sector who are making it so there isn't enought money to fund the public sector." . ...is the RIGHT answer. . And it is the higher-paid who stand to lose out most - NOT the lower-paid. . Can you see now why senior officials in the public sector are backing the strikes? And yes, that includes head teachers. THEY will be the biggest losers, but they know they will receive the least sympathy from the public. So they are very happy indeed for all the lower-paid cannon-fodder to do their dirty work for them, and seek to gain public sympathy. When a large proportion of the lower-paid will be less-affected by the changes that they are? Adeybull

4:44pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Adeybull says...

SEBTP - well we Bulls fans wrote the book about several years of misery, hardship and making ends meet, eh!! Does your moniker on here suggest you are a Genesis fan too?
.
While I am here - I was just checking back to see how much support the unions - any unions - gave to those of us whose personal pensions Gordon Brown raided in 1997, and for every year thereafter? Can anyone help me, because I am struggling to find any links?
SEBTP - well we Bulls fans wrote the book about several years of misery, hardship and making ends meet, eh!! Does your moniker on here suggest you are a Genesis fan too? . While I am here - I was just checking back to see how much support the unions - any unions - gave to those of us whose personal pensions Gordon Brown raided in 1997, and for every year thereafter? Can anyone help me, because I am struggling to find any links? Adeybull

4:54pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Yorkshire Lass says...

Adeybull wrote:
SEBTP - well we Bulls fans wrote the book about several years of misery, hardship and making ends meet, eh!! Does your moniker on here suggest you are a Genesis fan too?
.
While I am here - I was just checking back to see how much support the unions - any unions - gave to those of us whose personal pensions Gordon Brown raided in 1997, and for every year thereafter? Can anyone help me, because I am struggling to find any links?
Speaking of Gordon Brown - does it not make everyone irate that he sold the Countries gold reserves at knock down low prices to cover up a lot of the mistakes they made? If it were still in the Country now while the gold prices are soaring, we would probably have been able to pay our ever increasing debts and have a normal life again (if there is such a thing)
[quote][p][bold]Adeybull[/bold] wrote: SEBTP - well we Bulls fans wrote the book about several years of misery, hardship and making ends meet, eh!! Does your moniker on here suggest you are a Genesis fan too? . While I am here - I was just checking back to see how much support the unions - any unions - gave to those of us whose personal pensions Gordon Brown raided in 1997, and for every year thereafter? Can anyone help me, because I am struggling to find any links?[/p][/quote]Speaking of Gordon Brown - does it not make everyone irate that he sold the Countries gold reserves at knock down low prices to cover up a lot of the mistakes they made? If it were still in the Country now while the gold prices are soaring, we would probably have been able to pay our ever increasing debts and have a normal life again (if there is such a thing) Yorkshire Lass

5:56pm Wed 30 Nov 11

eebygum says...

You won't pay any less tax by the government cutting the public sector pensions or sacking public sector staff. They have cut jobs for years and have you had a rates or tax reduction? No we pay more and get less. The MP's have a pension fund paid for by us and they can retire when they want. So why cut public sector workers pension and not their own? We should be reducing the pension age and get more of the younger generation in work the cost of that will be negliable and stop young kids getting into the workless trap. What these public sector workers get in pay or fringe bebefits is nothing to do with us tax payers this was all negotiated by the government. If they can pay it is because someone somewhere has made an error. Why should they be expected to forfeit something that is now expected as their pension?
David Cameron and his co-horts have already moved to bring back the free for all Ministers expenses fiasco. So we should be more concerned about the cost of that to the tax payers.
You won't pay any less tax by the government cutting the public sector pensions or sacking public sector staff. They have cut jobs for years and have you had a rates or tax reduction? No we pay more and get less. The MP's have a pension fund paid for by us and they can retire when they want. So why cut public sector workers pension and not their own? We should be reducing the pension age and get more of the younger generation in work the cost of that will be negliable and stop young kids getting into the workless trap. What these public sector workers get in pay or fringe bebefits is nothing to do with us tax payers this was all negotiated by the government. If they can pay it is because someone somewhere has made an error. Why should they be expected to forfeit something that is now expected as their pension? David Cameron and his co-horts have already moved to bring back the free for all Ministers expenses fiasco. So we should be more concerned about the cost of that to the tax payers. eebygum

6:29pm Wed 30 Nov 11

angry bradfordian says...

eebygum wrote:
You won't pay any less tax by the government cutting the public sector pensions or sacking public sector staff. They have cut jobs for years and have you had a rates or tax reduction? No we pay more and get less. The MP's have a pension fund paid for by us and they can retire when they want. So why cut public sector workers pension and not their own? We should be reducing the pension age and get more of the younger generation in work the cost of that will be negliable and stop young kids getting into the workless trap. What these public sector workers get in pay or fringe bebefits is nothing to do with us tax payers this was all negotiated by the government. If they can pay it is because someone somewhere has made an error. Why should they be expected to forfeit something that is now expected as their pension?
David Cameron and his co-horts have already moved to bring back the free for all Ministers expenses fiasco. So we should be more concerned about the cost of that to the tax payers.
It's not true to say that public sector jobs have been cut for years. In fact the opposite is true, as the number of people in the public sector has significantly risen since 1997. I've just looked on the civil service website, so it's not propaganda.

It's a bit disingenuous to suggest that increased tax is just paying MPs pensions (regardless of how little they deserve it) when you consider there are at least 30 million taxpayers and only 650 MPs.
[quote][p][bold]eebygum[/bold] wrote: You won't pay any less tax by the government cutting the public sector pensions or sacking public sector staff. They have cut jobs for years and have you had a rates or tax reduction? No we pay more and get less. The MP's have a pension fund paid for by us and they can retire when they want. So why cut public sector workers pension and not their own? We should be reducing the pension age and get more of the younger generation in work the cost of that will be negliable and stop young kids getting into the workless trap. What these public sector workers get in pay or fringe bebefits is nothing to do with us tax payers this was all negotiated by the government. If they can pay it is because someone somewhere has made an error. Why should they be expected to forfeit something that is now expected as their pension? David Cameron and his co-horts have already moved to bring back the free for all Ministers expenses fiasco. So we should be more concerned about the cost of that to the tax payers.[/p][/quote]It's not true to say that public sector jobs have been cut for years. In fact the opposite is true, as the number of people in the public sector has significantly risen since 1997. I've just looked on the civil service website, so it's not propaganda. It's a bit disingenuous to suggest that increased tax is just paying MPs pensions (regardless of how little they deserve it) when you consider there are at least 30 million taxpayers and only 650 MPs. angry bradfordian

6:48pm Wed 30 Nov 11

greenside says...

Public sector workers are TAX PAYERS they are members of THE PUBLIC. Public sector workers want PRIVATE SECTOR pensions to be improved. There is money to provide decent private and public sector pensions.

The richest 1,000 people in the UK
possess £395.8 bn — equivalent to onethird of the national debt.

The richest 1% of Uk get £10bn in tax relief!

Teachers pensions are affordable it is a fact! That is why the government shies away from a review. Also since 1923 the teachers pension has had £43bn more put in than has been taken out.

Local Government Pensions are in surplus by £4bn.

Governments tell myths - Lets start asking questions of the government.
Public sector workers are TAX PAYERS they are members of THE PUBLIC. Public sector workers want PRIVATE SECTOR pensions to be improved. There is money to provide decent private and public sector pensions. The richest 1,000 people in the UK possess £395.8 bn — equivalent to onethird of the national debt. The richest 1% of Uk get £10bn in tax relief! Teachers pensions are affordable it is a fact! That is why the government shies away from a review. Also since 1923 the teachers pension has had £43bn more put in than has been taken out. Local Government Pensions are in surplus by £4bn. Governments tell myths - Lets start asking questions of the government. greenside

6:52pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Adeybull says...

AB, "disingenuous" sums up pretty well everything the apologists for the strikes have posted on this forum today, I suggest?
.
As I keep saying, its all about whether the public employees should keep getting the same-sized piece of cake, when the overall cake has been shrinking. Or whether their piece should shrink a bit too - even if nothing like as much as the pieces that many of the rest of us get have already shrunk and will continue to shrink.
.
Now, funnily enough, Nick Robinson, the BBC political editor (and, like most of the BBC editorial and journalist staff, not renowned for his pro-coalition views), said this on his blog today:
.
"The strikes are one manifestation of a new politics of distribution - ie the battle over who gets what when the national cake gets smaller. The Office for Budget Responsibility said yesterday that the economy was now 13% smaller than it had been before the banking crisis ie more than £1 in every £8."
.
So there you have it. On average, everyone's piece of cake is 13% smaller than in early 2008. My own is actually quite a lot smaller even than that. Now, your public sector unions say that THEIR members' piece of cake should be THE SAME SIZE as it was back in 2008 - or at least, as near as makes no difference. So, given the overall cake has shrunk 13%, if THEIR piece remains little-changed then how much smaller must OUR pieces become to accommodate? 15%? 16%? 17%? 18% 19%?...
.
I have yet to see ANYONE on this forum or anywhere else demonstrate why that is remotely fair. Seen plenty of apologists for the strikers who talk a load of economic nonsense and clearly do not have the first idea what they are suggesting or talking about. Maybe, somewhere, there is one of them - just one - who can have a stab at explaining to the large majority of us who are not employed by the public sector just why it IS fair?
AB, "disingenuous" sums up pretty well everything the apologists for the strikes have posted on this forum today, I suggest? . As I keep saying, its all about whether the public employees should keep getting the same-sized piece of cake, when the overall cake has been shrinking. Or whether their piece should shrink a bit too - even if nothing like as much as the pieces that many of the rest of us get have already shrunk and will continue to shrink. . Now, funnily enough, Nick Robinson, the BBC political editor (and, like most of the BBC editorial and journalist staff, not renowned for his pro-coalition views), said this on his blog today: . "The strikes are one manifestation of a new politics of distribution - ie the battle over who gets what when the national cake gets smaller. The Office for Budget Responsibility said yesterday that the economy was now 13% smaller than it had been before the banking crisis ie more than £1 in every £8." . So there you have it. On average, everyone's piece of cake is 13% smaller than in early 2008. My own is actually quite a lot smaller even than that. Now, your public sector unions say that THEIR members' piece of cake should be THE SAME SIZE as it was back in 2008 - or at least, as near as makes no difference. So, given the overall cake has shrunk 13%, if THEIR piece remains little-changed then how much smaller must OUR pieces become to accommodate? 15%? 16%? 17%? 18% 19%?... . I have yet to see ANYONE on this forum or anywhere else demonstrate why that is remotely fair. Seen plenty of apologists for the strikers who talk a load of economic nonsense and clearly do not have the first idea what they are suggesting or talking about. Maybe, somewhere, there is one of them - just one - who can have a stab at explaining to the large majority of us who are not employed by the public sector just why it IS fair? Adeybull

6:58pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Cityman23 says...

The millionaires in the Con-Dem coalition government have decided that the deficit (caused by their rich banking friends) should be paid for out of the pockets of ordinary people.

This government has brought in policies never put to the electorate at the election just one/half years ago. eg privatising the NHS/cutting public services/attacking pensions/creating massive youth unemployment!!

Well done to the strikers who decided to 'make a stand' today!!

The Tories like to divide/rule and they want to split private workers from public workers by playing the 'jealousy card.' All workers deserve decent pensions!!

Why doesn't the Tory/Lib-Dem govt:

a) Scrap Trident nuclear missile renewal : cost £100 billion?

b) Scrap lots of money being spent on Royal Jubilee celebrations in 2012?

c) Place a 'Robin Hood' tax on banking financial transactions (of 0.02% per transaction) which could bring in £billions?)

d) Demand Vodaphone pay its unpaid tax bill (and othjers do so too?!!)

e) Close down loopholes allowing tax avoidance/tax evasion?

The 'austerity' measures of Cameron/Osbourne/Cle
gg have been a disaster. No growth-millions out of work-cost of living rising-incomes reduced and...a double-dip recession STILL on the horizon!
The millionaires in the Con-Dem coalition government have decided that the deficit (caused by their rich banking friends) should be paid for out of the pockets of ordinary people. This government has brought in policies never put to the electorate at the election just one/half years ago. eg privatising the NHS/cutting public services/attacking pensions/creating massive youth unemployment!! Well done to the strikers who decided to 'make a stand' today!! The Tories like to divide/rule and they want to split private workers from public workers by playing the 'jealousy card.' All workers deserve decent pensions!! Why doesn't the Tory/Lib-Dem govt: a) Scrap Trident nuclear missile renewal : cost £100 billion? b) Scrap lots of money being spent on Royal Jubilee celebrations in 2012? c) Place a 'Robin Hood' tax on banking financial transactions (of 0.02% per transaction) which could bring in £billions?) d) Demand Vodaphone pay its unpaid tax bill (and othjers do so too?!!) e) Close down loopholes allowing tax avoidance/tax evasion? The 'austerity' measures of Cameron/Osbourne/Cle gg have been a disaster. No growth-millions out of work-cost of living rising-incomes reduced and...a double-dip recession STILL on the horizon! Cityman23

7:06pm Wed 30 Nov 11

angry bradfordian says...

Cityman23 wrote:
The millionaires in the Con-Dem coalition government have decided that the deficit (caused by their rich banking friends) should be paid for out of the pockets of ordinary people.

This government has brought in policies never put to the electorate at the election just one/half years ago. eg privatising the NHS/cutting public services/attacking pensions/creating massive youth unemployment!!

Well done to the strikers who decided to 'make a stand' today!!

The Tories like to divide/rule and they want to split private workers from public workers by playing the 'jealousy card.' All workers deserve decent pensions!!

Why doesn't the Tory/Lib-Dem govt:

a) Scrap Trident nuclear missile renewal : cost £100 billion?

b) Scrap lots of money being spent on Royal Jubilee celebrations in 2012?

c) Place a 'Robin Hood' tax on banking financial transactions (of 0.02% per transaction) which could bring in £billions?)

d) Demand Vodaphone pay its unpaid tax bill (and othjers do so too?!!)

e) Close down loopholes allowing tax avoidance/tax evasion?

The 'austerity' measures of Cameron/Osbourne/Cle

gg have been a disaster. No growth-millions out of work-cost of living rising-incomes reduced and...a double-dip recession STILL on the horizon!
It could also be said that the unions are dividing the nation with their strike action today and are doing more to disenfranchise people who work in the private sector.
Some of these things you suggest, such as Vodafone's tax bill and Jubilee celebrations haven't changed since Labour were in charge, so why it's specifically the Tory/Lib-Dems helping out their mates, or doesn't that suit the unions view?
[quote][p][bold]Cityman23[/bold] wrote: The millionaires in the Con-Dem coalition government have decided that the deficit (caused by their rich banking friends) should be paid for out of the pockets of ordinary people. This government has brought in policies never put to the electorate at the election just one/half years ago. eg privatising the NHS/cutting public services/attacking pensions/creating massive youth unemployment!! Well done to the strikers who decided to 'make a stand' today!! The Tories like to divide/rule and they want to split private workers from public workers by playing the 'jealousy card.' All workers deserve decent pensions!! Why doesn't the Tory/Lib-Dem govt: a) Scrap Trident nuclear missile renewal : cost £100 billion? b) Scrap lots of money being spent on Royal Jubilee celebrations in 2012? c) Place a 'Robin Hood' tax on banking financial transactions (of 0.02% per transaction) which could bring in £billions?) d) Demand Vodaphone pay its unpaid tax bill (and othjers do so too?!!) e) Close down loopholes allowing tax avoidance/tax evasion? The 'austerity' measures of Cameron/Osbourne/Cle gg have been a disaster. No growth-millions out of work-cost of living rising-incomes reduced and...a double-dip recession STILL on the horizon![/p][/quote]It could also be said that the unions are dividing the nation with their strike action today and are doing more to disenfranchise people who work in the private sector. Some of these things you suggest, such as Vodafone's tax bill and Jubilee celebrations haven't changed since Labour were in charge, so why it's specifically the Tory/Lib-Dems helping out their mates, or doesn't that suit the unions view? angry bradfordian

8:01pm Wed 30 Nov 11

SellingEnglandByThePound says...

Adeybull wrote:
SEBTP - well we Bulls fans wrote the book about several years of misery, hardship and making ends meet, eh!! Does your moniker on here suggest you are a Genesis fan too?
.
While I am here - I was just checking back to see how much support the unions - any unions - gave to those of us whose personal pensions Gordon Brown raided in 1997, and for every year thereafter? Can anyone help me, because I am struggling to find any links?
Wrote the book and built the library to put it in I think! We'll be back at the helm soon, if only to get shut of the Whino's smugness! And as for the Genesis connection, was listening to the album, (vinyl no less!), when I started this account and the title fit nicely. Huge Genesis fan, well, up until 75 when Gabriel left then they just turned "POP"! Read your posts with great interest, unlike most who post on here you have a brain!
[quote][p][bold]Adeybull[/bold] wrote: SEBTP - well we Bulls fans wrote the book about several years of misery, hardship and making ends meet, eh!! Does your moniker on here suggest you are a Genesis fan too? . While I am here - I was just checking back to see how much support the unions - any unions - gave to those of us whose personal pensions Gordon Brown raided in 1997, and for every year thereafter? Can anyone help me, because I am struggling to find any links?[/p][/quote]Wrote the book and built the library to put it in I think! We'll be back at the helm soon, if only to get shut of the Whino's smugness! And as for the Genesis connection, was listening to the album, (vinyl no less!), when I started this account and the title fit nicely. Huge Genesis fan, well, up until 75 when Gabriel left then they just turned "POP"! Read your posts with great interest, unlike most who post on here you have a brain! SellingEnglandByThePound

8:07pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Vegan Justice says...

WELL DONE TO ALL THOSE WHO TOOK STRIKE ACTION TODAY. NEXT TIME A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE !!!
WELL DONE TO ALL THOSE WHO TOOK STRIKE ACTION TODAY. NEXT TIME A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE !!! Vegan Justice

8:09pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Vegan Justice says...

Adeybull wrote:
What I want is fairness. Nothing more. Nothing less.
.
I wonder how many of the strikers have been lied to by their union?
It's not the Unions doing the lying, it's the Tories in Government. Never trust a Tory. Join a Union.
[quote][p][bold]Adeybull[/bold] wrote: What I want is fairness. Nothing more. Nothing less. . I wonder how many of the strikers have been lied to by their union?[/p][/quote]It's not the Unions doing the lying, it's the Tories in Government. Never trust a Tory. Join a Union. Vegan Justice

8:10pm Wed 30 Nov 11

SellingEnglandByThePound says...

SellingEnglandByTheP
ound
wrote:
Adeybull wrote:
SEBTP - well we Bulls fans wrote the book about several years of misery, hardship and making ends meet, eh!! Does your moniker on here suggest you are a Genesis fan too?
.
While I am here - I was just checking back to see how much support the unions - any unions - gave to those of us whose personal pensions Gordon Brown raided in 1997, and for every year thereafter? Can anyone help me, because I am struggling to find any links?
Wrote the book and built the library to put it in I think! We'll be back at the helm soon, if only to get shut of the Whino's smugness! And as for the Genesis connection, was listening to the album, (vinyl no less!), when I started this account and the title fit nicely. Huge Genesis fan, well, up until 75 when Gabriel left then they just turned "POP"! Read your posts with great interest, unlike most who post on here you have a brain!
Maybe a little harsh, up to Duke, then they seemed to turn!
[quote][p][bold]SellingEnglandByTheP ound[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Adeybull[/bold] wrote: SEBTP - well we Bulls fans wrote the book about several years of misery, hardship and making ends meet, eh!! Does your moniker on here suggest you are a Genesis fan too? . While I am here - I was just checking back to see how much support the unions - any unions - gave to those of us whose personal pensions Gordon Brown raided in 1997, and for every year thereafter? Can anyone help me, because I am struggling to find any links?[/p][/quote]Wrote the book and built the library to put it in I think! We'll be back at the helm soon, if only to get shut of the Whino's smugness! And as for the Genesis connection, was listening to the album, (vinyl no less!), when I started this account and the title fit nicely. Huge Genesis fan, well, up until 75 when Gabriel left then they just turned "POP"! Read your posts with great interest, unlike most who post on here you have a brain![/p][/quote]Maybe a little harsh, up to Duke, then they seemed to turn! SellingEnglandByThePound

8:10pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Vegan Justice says...

AMDRAM wrote:
Rubbish - all my friends are teachers and they have all stayed in bed! Half the people I know who are on strike are actually having a day out, not supporting the picket lines or the marches!
Then they are lending their support by the very fact of staying away from work. Duh!
[quote][p][bold]AMDRAM[/bold] wrote: Rubbish - all my friends are teachers and they have all stayed in bed! Half the people I know who are on strike are actually having a day out, not supporting the picket lines or the marches![/p][/quote]Then they are lending their support by the very fact of staying away from work. Duh! Vegan Justice

8:12pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Vegan Justice says...

angry bradfordian wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
thepointis wrote:
angry bradfordian wrote: The economy is too complicated a system to blame purely on the 'bankers', especially if you are suggesting that it's all down to UK bankers to suddenly prop up the entire British public sector pension system. There are many causes of the currently problems. Some of it is down to the US Sub-prime issues, some of it is down to the 'one size fits all' Euro. Some of it is down to our banks giving mortgages to people who couldn't afford it. This means that you, me & anybody else who irresponsibly borrowed money beyond their means is also responsible. And whilst all this was going on, our government carried on spending money we didn't have and ignored what the bankers were doing. All this is probably why Labour are being more than a tad sheepish about the strike action and all the politicians of all sides are a bunch of hypocrites as long as they blame each other for this mess.
No its not...And all the causes have come about because of Uk , risky high reward European and American financial practices. Whatever way you look at this mess it primary cause was greedy bankers .
What about the fact the Labour government during boom years was still borrowing money, and that they left the country paying more money in interest repayments than we spend on the defense budget.
.
Also what about the fact pensions cost more because people are living alot longer.
.
There is a whole host of reasons and you it seems have been brainwashed into thinking it's just down to bankers and no one else.
.
Mr Brown wasn't complaining at all the tax money the bankers were bringing in whilst he was in the treasury.
The hypocrisy of the Labour party would amaze me if I didn't know that all politicians are a bunch of cheats & liars.
For years, Labour said the economy was good because of their prudence (whilst the world economy was going well)
Then when the UK economy went downhill it was all because of 'world economy issues'
Now they're saying that the recession's all down to Tory policies.
No, they're saying the lack of economic recovery is all down to the Tories.
[quote][p][bold]angry bradfordian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]angry bradfordian[/bold] wrote: The economy is too complicated a system to blame purely on the 'bankers', especially if you are suggesting that it's all down to UK bankers to suddenly prop up the entire British public sector pension system. There are many causes of the currently problems. Some of it is down to the US Sub-prime issues, some of it is down to the 'one size fits all' Euro. Some of it is down to our banks giving mortgages to people who couldn't afford it. This means that you, me & anybody else who irresponsibly borrowed money beyond their means is also responsible. And whilst all this was going on, our government carried on spending money we didn't have and ignored what the bankers were doing. All this is probably why Labour are being more than a tad sheepish about the strike action and all the politicians of all sides are a bunch of hypocrites as long as they blame each other for this mess.[/p][/quote]No its not...And all the causes have come about because of Uk , risky high reward European and American financial practices. Whatever way you look at this mess it primary cause was greedy bankers .[/p][/quote]What about the fact the Labour government during boom years was still borrowing money, and that they left the country paying more money in interest repayments than we spend on the defense budget. . Also what about the fact pensions cost more because people are living alot longer. . There is a whole host of reasons and you it seems have been brainwashed into thinking it's just down to bankers and no one else. . Mr Brown wasn't complaining at all the tax money the bankers were bringing in whilst he was in the treasury.[/p][/quote]The hypocrisy of the Labour party would amaze me if I didn't know that all politicians are a bunch of cheats & liars. For years, Labour said the economy was good because of their prudence (whilst the world economy was going well) Then when the UK economy went downhill it was all because of 'world economy issues' Now they're saying that the recession's all down to Tory policies.[/p][/quote]No, they're saying the lack of economic recovery is all down to the Tories. Vegan Justice

8:15pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Vegan Justice says...

Andy2010 wrote:
A family friend of mine heard last week that her chemo treatment was cancelled today because of the strikes.....this just goes to show how everyone in the public sector couldnt give a flying **** about their jobs from teachers to nurses etc etc ....they are all in it for themselves
"Everyone' in the public sector is "in it for themselves" just because your friend missed an appointment?

When there is no one left to do the job because the pay and conditions are so bad, who will provide the treatment your friend needs then?
[quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: A family friend of mine heard last week that her chemo treatment was cancelled today because of the strikes.....this just goes to show how everyone in the public sector couldnt give a flying **** about their jobs from teachers to nurses etc etc ....they are all in it for themselves[/p][/quote]"Everyone' in the public sector is "in it for themselves" just because your friend missed an appointment? When there is no one left to do the job because the pay and conditions are so bad, who will provide the treatment your friend needs then? Vegan Justice

8:17pm Wed 30 Nov 11

SellingEnglandByThePound says...

Vegan Justice wrote:
AMDRAM wrote:
Rubbish - all my friends are teachers and they have all stayed in bed! Half the people I know who are on strike are actually having a day out, not supporting the picket lines or the marches!
Then they are lending their support by the very fact of staying away from work. Duh!
Ha! Sums you up worm, an armchair protester! Hows the cold, you know, that little snivel that stopped you joining your "Brother & Sisters" at the Centenery Square protests? Actually, that quite sums you up that, "A little snivel"!
[quote][p][bold]Vegan Justice[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]AMDRAM[/bold] wrote: Rubbish - all my friends are teachers and they have all stayed in bed! Half the people I know who are on strike are actually having a day out, not supporting the picket lines or the marches![/p][/quote]Then they are lending their support by the very fact of staying away from work. Duh![/p][/quote]Ha! Sums you up worm, an armchair protester! Hows the cold, you know, that little snivel that stopped you joining your "Brother & Sisters" at the Centenery Square protests? Actually, that quite sums you up that, "A little snivel"! SellingEnglandByThePound

8:21pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Vegan Justice says...

Old Peculiar wrote:
If you think that striking will get you support from the general public, you are very very much mistaken.
Get back to work, you pathetic, bone idle, any excuse for a day off, whinging wasters.
The sooner you wake up, and realise that eveything isn't rosy in our green and pleasant financial garden, the better for us all ; especially our children, who are having ANOTHER day of NO EDUCATION at your expense.
The Public Sector have huge sympathy from the general public, for your information. Let me remind that the Tories didn't gain power by winning an election. As for your children, they will not gain an education at all if Gove has his way, they'll be up chimneys instead.
[quote][p][bold]Old Peculiar[/bold] wrote: If you think that striking will get you support from the general public, you are very very much mistaken. Get back to work, you pathetic, bone idle, any excuse for a day off, whinging wasters. The sooner you wake up, and realise that eveything isn't rosy in our green and pleasant financial garden, the better for us all ; especially our children, who are having ANOTHER day of NO EDUCATION at your expense.[/p][/quote]The Public Sector have huge sympathy from the general public, for your information. Let me remind that the Tories didn't gain power by winning an election. As for your children, they will not gain an education at all if Gove has his way, they'll be up chimneys instead. Vegan Justice

8:21pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Vegan Justice says...

Old Peculiar wrote:
If you think that striking will get you support from the general public, you are very very much mistaken.
Get back to work, you pathetic, bone idle, any excuse for a day off, whinging wasters.
The sooner you wake up, and realise that eveything isn't rosy in our green and pleasant financial garden, the better for us all ; especially our children, who are having ANOTHER day of NO EDUCATION at your expense.
The Public Sector have huge sympathy from the general public, for your information. Let me remind that the Tories didn't gain power by winning an election. As for your children, they will not gain an education at all if Gove has his way, they'll be up chimneys instead.
[quote][p][bold]Old Peculiar[/bold] wrote: If you think that striking will get you support from the general public, you are very very much mistaken. Get back to work, you pathetic, bone idle, any excuse for a day off, whinging wasters. The sooner you wake up, and realise that eveything isn't rosy in our green and pleasant financial garden, the better for us all ; especially our children, who are having ANOTHER day of NO EDUCATION at your expense.[/p][/quote]The Public Sector have huge sympathy from the general public, for your information. Let me remind that the Tories didn't gain power by winning an election. As for your children, they will not gain an education at all if Gove has his way, they'll be up chimneys instead. Vegan Justice

8:22pm Wed 30 Nov 11

angry bradfordian says...

Vegan Justice wrote:
angry bradfordian wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
thepointis wrote:
angry bradfordian wrote: The economy is too complicated a system to blame purely on the 'bankers', especially if you are suggesting that it's all down to UK bankers to suddenly prop up the entire British public sector pension system. There are many causes of the currently problems. Some of it is down to the US Sub-prime issues, some of it is down to the 'one size fits all' Euro. Some of it is down to our banks giving mortgages to people who couldn't afford it. This means that you, me & anybody else who irresponsibly borrowed money beyond their means is also responsible. And whilst all this was going on, our government carried on spending money we didn't have and ignored what the bankers were doing. All this is probably why Labour are being more than a tad sheepish about the strike action and all the politicians of all sides are a bunch of hypocrites as long as they blame each other for this mess.
No its not...And all the causes have come about because of Uk , risky high reward European and American financial practices. Whatever way you look at this mess it primary cause was greedy bankers .
What about the fact the Labour government during boom years was still borrowing money, and that they left the country paying more money in interest repayments than we spend on the defense budget.
.
Also what about the fact pensions cost more because people are living alot longer.
.
There is a whole host of reasons and you it seems have been brainwashed into thinking it's just down to bankers and no one else.
.
Mr Brown wasn't complaining at all the tax money the bankers were bringing in whilst he was in the treasury.
The hypocrisy of the Labour party would amaze me if I didn't know that all politicians are a bunch of cheats & liars.
For years, Labour said the economy was good because of their prudence (whilst the world economy was going well)
Then when the UK economy went downhill it was all because of 'world economy issues'
Now they're saying that the recession's all down to Tory policies.
No, they're saying the lack of economic recovery is all down to the Tories.
That's bit like a murderer blaming the paramedic for not resuscitating his victim.
[quote][p][bold]Vegan Justice[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]angry bradfordian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]angry bradfordian[/bold] wrote: The economy is too complicated a system to blame purely on the 'bankers', especially if you are suggesting that it's all down to UK bankers to suddenly prop up the entire British public sector pension system. There are many causes of the currently problems. Some of it is down to the US Sub-prime issues, some of it is down to the 'one size fits all' Euro. Some of it is down to our banks giving mortgages to people who couldn't afford it. This means that you, me & anybody else who irresponsibly borrowed money beyond their means is also responsible. And whilst all this was going on, our government carried on spending money we didn't have and ignored what the bankers were doing. All this is probably why Labour are being more than a tad sheepish about the strike action and all the politicians of all sides are a bunch of hypocrites as long as they blame each other for this mess.[/p][/quote]No its not...And all the causes have come about because of Uk , risky high reward European and American financial practices. Whatever way you look at this mess it primary cause was greedy bankers .[/p][/quote]What about the fact the Labour government during boom years was still borrowing money, and that they left the country paying more money in interest repayments than we spend on the defense budget. . Also what about the fact pensions cost more because people are living alot longer. . There is a whole host of reasons and you it seems have been brainwashed into thinking it's just down to bankers and no one else. . Mr Brown wasn't complaining at all the tax money the bankers were bringing in whilst he was in the treasury.[/p][/quote]The hypocrisy of the Labour party would amaze me if I didn't know that all politicians are a bunch of cheats & liars. For years, Labour said the economy was good because of their prudence (whilst the world economy was going well) Then when the UK economy went downhill it was all because of 'world economy issues' Now they're saying that the recession's all down to Tory policies.[/p][/quote]No, they're saying the lack of economic recovery is all down to the Tories.[/p][/quote]That's bit like a murderer blaming the paramedic for not resuscitating his victim. angry bradfordian

8:22pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Vegan Justice says...

SellingEnglandByTheP
ound
wrote:
Vegan Justice wrote:
AMDRAM wrote:
Rubbish - all my friends are teachers and they have all stayed in bed! Half the people I know who are on strike are actually having a day out, not supporting the picket lines or the marches!
Then they are lending their support by the very fact of staying away from work. Duh!
Ha! Sums you up worm, an armchair protester! Hows the cold, you know, that little snivel that stopped you joining your "Brother & Sisters" at the Centenery Square protests? Actually, that quite sums you up that, "A little snivel"!
dear oh dear, can't win an argument so resort to personal childish insults. Typical Tory.
[quote][p][bold]SellingEnglandByTheP ound[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Vegan Justice[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]AMDRAM[/bold] wrote: Rubbish - all my friends are teachers and they have all stayed in bed! Half the people I know who are on strike are actually having a day out, not supporting the picket lines or the marches![/p][/quote]Then they are lending their support by the very fact of staying away from work. Duh![/p][/quote]Ha! Sums you up worm, an armchair protester! Hows the cold, you know, that little snivel that stopped you joining your "Brother & Sisters" at the Centenery Square protests? Actually, that quite sums you up that, "A little snivel"![/p][/quote]dear oh dear, can't win an argument so resort to personal childish insults. Typical Tory. Vegan Justice

8:23pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Vegan Justice says...

angry bradfordian wrote:
Vegan Justice wrote:
angry bradfordian wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
thepointis wrote:
angry bradfordian wrote: The economy is too complicated a system to blame purely on the 'bankers', especially if you are suggesting that it's all down to UK bankers to suddenly prop up the entire British public sector pension system. There are many causes of the currently problems. Some of it is down to the US Sub-prime issues, some of it is down to the 'one size fits all' Euro. Some of it is down to our banks giving mortgages to people who couldn't afford it. This means that you, me & anybody else who irresponsibly borrowed money beyond their means is also responsible. And whilst all this was going on, our government carried on spending money we didn't have and ignored what the bankers were doing. All this is probably why Labour are being more than a tad sheepish about the strike action and all the politicians of all sides are a bunch of hypocrites as long as they blame each other for this mess.
No its not...And all the causes have come about because of Uk , risky high reward European and American financial practices. Whatever way you look at this mess it primary cause was greedy bankers .
What about the fact the Labour government during boom years was still borrowing money, and that they left the country paying more money in interest repayments than we spend on the defense budget.
.
Also what about the fact pensions cost more because people are living alot longer.
.
There is a whole host of reasons and you it seems have been brainwashed into thinking it's just down to bankers and no one else.
.
Mr Brown wasn't complaining at all the tax money the bankers were bringing in whilst he was in the treasury.
The hypocrisy of the Labour party would amaze me if I didn't know that all politicians are a bunch of cheats & liars.
For years, Labour said the economy was good because of their prudence (whilst the world economy was going well)
Then when the UK economy went downhill it was all because of 'world economy issues'
Now they're saying that the recession's all down to Tory policies.
No, they're saying the lack of economic recovery is all down to the Tories.
That's bit like a murderer blaming the paramedic for not resuscitating his victim.
That's a bit like an overly convoluted metaphor....
[quote][p][bold]angry bradfordian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Vegan Justice[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]angry bradfordian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thepointis[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]angry bradfordian[/bold] wrote: The economy is too complicated a system to blame purely on the 'bankers', especially if you are suggesting that it's all down to UK bankers to suddenly prop up the entire British public sector pension system. There are many causes of the currently problems. Some of it is down to the US Sub-prime issues, some of it is down to the 'one size fits all' Euro. Some of it is down to our banks giving mortgages to people who couldn't afford it. This means that you, me & anybody else who irresponsibly borrowed money beyond their means is also responsible. And whilst all this was going on, our government carried on spending money we didn't have and ignored what the bankers were doing. All this is probably why Labour are being more than a tad sheepish about the strike action and all the politicians of all sides are a bunch of hypocrites as long as they blame each other for this mess.[/p][/quote]No its not...And all the causes have come about because of Uk , risky high reward European and American financial practices. Whatever way you look at this mess it primary cause was greedy bankers .[/p][/quote]What about the fact the Labour government during boom years was still borrowing money, and that they left the country paying more money in interest repayments than we spend on the defense budget. . Also what about the fact pensions cost more because people are living alot longer. . There is a whole host of reasons and you it seems have been brainwashed into thinking it's just down to bankers and no one else. . Mr Brown wasn't complaining at all the tax money the bankers were bringing in whilst he was in the treasury.[/p][/quote]The hypocrisy of the Labour party would amaze me if I didn't know that all politicians are a bunch of cheats & liars. For years, Labour said the economy was good because of their prudence (whilst the world economy was going well) Then when the UK economy went downhill it was all because of 'world economy issues' Now they're saying that the recession's all down to Tory policies.[/p][/quote]No, they're saying the lack of economic recovery is all down to the Tories.[/p][/quote]That's bit like a murderer blaming the paramedic for not resuscitating his victim.[/p][/quote]That's a bit like an overly convoluted metaphor.... Vegan Justice

8:24pm Wed 30 Nov 11

RED65 says...

What's all this talk about living 10 years longer.....
I can smell bull sh.....
What's all this talk about living 10 years longer..... I can smell bull sh..... RED65

8:27pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Vegan Justice says...

angry bradfordian wrote:
Cityman23 wrote:
The millionaires in the Con-Dem coalition government have decided that the deficit (caused by their rich banking friends) should be paid for out of the pockets of ordinary people.

This government has brought in policies never put to the electorate at the election just one/half years ago. eg privatising the NHS/cutting public services/attacking pensions/creating massive youth unemployment!!

Well done to the strikers who decided to 'make a stand' today!!

The Tories like to divide/rule and they want to split private workers from public workers by playing the 'jealousy card.' All workers deserve decent pensions!!

Why doesn't the Tory/Lib-Dem govt:

a) Scrap Trident nuclear missile renewal : cost £100 billion?

b) Scrap lots of money being spent on Royal Jubilee celebrations in 2012?

c) Place a 'Robin Hood' tax on banking financial transactions (of 0.02% per transaction) which could bring in £billions?)

d) Demand Vodaphone pay its unpaid tax bill (and othjers do so too?!!)

e) Close down loopholes allowing tax avoidance/tax evasion?

The 'austerity' measures of Cameron/Osbourne/Cle


gg have been a disaster. No growth-millions out of work-cost of living rising-incomes reduced and...a double-dip recession STILL on the horizon!
It could also be said that the unions are dividing the nation with their strike action today and are doing more to disenfranchise people who work in the private sector.
Some of these things you suggest, such as Vodafone's tax bill and Jubilee celebrations haven't changed since Labour were in charge, so why it's specifically the Tory/Lib-Dems helping out their mates, or doesn't that suit the unions view?
It's not the Unions who are dividing the nation, that's all being done by the Government, it's the oldest trick in the book; divide and rule. Don't fall for it, join a Union!
[quote][p][bold]angry bradfordian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Cityman23[/bold] wrote: The millionaires in the Con-Dem coalition government have decided that the deficit (caused by their rich banking friends) should be paid for out of the pockets of ordinary people. This government has brought in policies never put to the electorate at the election just one/half years ago. eg privatising the NHS/cutting public services/attacking pensions/creating massive youth unemployment!! Well done to the strikers who decided to 'make a stand' today!! The Tories like to divide/rule and they want to split private workers from public workers by playing the 'jealousy card.' All workers deserve decent pensions!! Why doesn't the Tory/Lib-Dem govt: a) Scrap Trident nuclear missile renewal : cost £100 billion? b) Scrap lots of money being spent on Royal Jubilee celebrations in 2012? c) Place a 'Robin Hood' tax on banking financial transactions (of 0.02% per transaction) which could bring in £billions?) d) Demand Vodaphone pay its unpaid tax bill (and othjers do so too?!!) e) Close down loopholes allowing tax avoidance/tax evasion? The 'austerity' measures of Cameron/Osbourne/Cle gg have been a disaster. No growth-millions out of work-cost of living rising-incomes reduced and...a double-dip recession STILL on the horizon![/p][/quote]It could also be said that the unions are dividing the nation with their strike action today and are doing more to disenfranchise people who work in the private sector. Some of these things you suggest, such as Vodafone's tax bill and Jubilee celebrations haven't changed since Labour were in charge, so why it's specifically the Tory/Lib-Dems helping out their mates, or doesn't that suit the unions view?[/p][/quote]It's not the Unions who are dividing the nation, that's all being done by the Government, it's the oldest trick in the book; divide and rule. Don't fall for it, join a Union! Vegan Justice

8:28pm Wed 30 Nov 11

SellingEnglandByThePound says...

Dont believe I was actually arguing with anyone. When it comes to childish insults, suggest you buy a mirror, if you can afford one peasant. And as for being a Tory, you are barking SO far up the wrong tree you're in a different forrest!
Dont believe I was actually arguing with anyone. When it comes to childish insults, suggest you buy a mirror, if you can afford one peasant. And as for being a Tory, you are barking SO far up the wrong tree you're in a different forrest! SellingEnglandByThePound

8:29pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Vegan Justice says...

SellingEnglandByTheP
ound
wrote:
Dont believe I was actually arguing with anyone. When it comes to childish insults, suggest you buy a mirror, if you can afford one peasant. And as for being a Tory, you are barking SO far up the wrong tree you're in a different forrest!
Gosh! someone who actually admits to being a Liberal?
[quote][p][bold]SellingEnglandByTheP ound[/bold] wrote: Dont believe I was actually arguing with anyone. When it comes to childish insults, suggest you buy a mirror, if you can afford one peasant. And as for being a Tory, you are barking SO far up the wrong tree you're in a different forrest![/p][/quote]Gosh! someone who actually admits to being a Liberal? Vegan Justice

8:32pm Wed 30 Nov 11

SellingEnglandByThePound says...

Vegan Justice wrote:
SellingEnglandByTheP

ound
wrote:
Dont believe I was actually arguing with anyone. When it comes to childish insults, suggest you buy a mirror, if you can afford one peasant. And as for being a Tory, you are barking SO far up the wrong tree you're in a different forrest!
Gosh! someone who actually admits to being a Liberal?
Wrong again Landless! Keep going, you might get something right one day!
[quote][p][bold]Vegan Justice[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]SellingEnglandByTheP ound[/bold] wrote: Dont believe I was actually arguing with anyone. When it comes to childish insults, suggest you buy a mirror, if you can afford one peasant. And as for being a Tory, you are barking SO far up the wrong tree you're in a different forrest![/p][/quote]Gosh! someone who actually admits to being a Liberal?[/p][/quote]Wrong again Landless! Keep going, you might get something right one day! SellingEnglandByThePound

8:33pm Wed 30 Nov 11

angry bradfordian says...

RED65 wrote:
What's all this talk about living 10 years longer.....
I can smell bull sh.....
In 1960 UK average life expectancy was 71.1, in 1980 it was 73.7 and in 2009 it was 80.1.
It is forecast that 80% of people born today will live to 100.
Therefore unless the UN, World Bank and the NHS are all in on the big conspiracy, I'd say it was pretty good evidence that people in the future will be claiming pensions for 10 years longer than when the system was set up.
[quote][p][bold]RED65[/bold] wrote: What's all this talk about living 10 years longer..... I can smell bull sh.....[/p][/quote]In 1960 UK average life expectancy was 71.1, in 1980 it was 73.7 and in 2009 it was 80.1. It is forecast that 80% of people born today will live to 100. Therefore unless the UN, World Bank and the NHS are all in on the big conspiracy, I'd say it was pretty good evidence that people in the future will be claiming pensions for 10 years longer than when the system was set up. angry bradfordian

9:18pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Uther Pendragon says...

I entered into a contract, "contract, written or spoken agreement.esp.one enforceable by law" (EOD) with the gov
when I started work in 1963. They required that I contribute a percentage of my wage for, 37 years after which I would be entitle to a living state pension! If I retire in 2013, I will have contributed for 50 years. My contributions are now funding migrants,
illegal imigrants etc who have never paid penny one into our NHS, or pension pot yet thet recieve all the benifits. I then entered into a contract with BDMC, who promised me that in return for loyal service and 6.5% of my income, they would invest that money and then furnish me with an additional pension to make retirement bearable. Both parties now wish to renage on those contracts in fact the council want to rewrite contacts every 3 months to suit their own agenda.
BDMC have a standard reply to all that
echoes down from the man on £200000+ pa, with a bullet proof pension plan. "If you are not happy with the wages and condition, then you know where the door is!"
If we bend over and take this latest attack on pensions, how long before the Gov/Council, decide to issue yet one more section 188 ( A notice to change our contract of emmployment) again. Its time to stand up to the Gov,
both private and public sector together and demand that we are all
given a living wage and a pension that we deserve.
I entered into a contract, "contract, written or spoken agreement.esp.one enforceable by law" (EOD) with the gov when I started work in 1963. They required that I contribute a percentage of my wage for, 37 years after which I would be entitle to a living state pension! If I retire in 2013, I will have contributed for 50 years. My contributions are now funding migrants, illegal imigrants etc who have never paid penny one into our NHS, or pension pot yet thet recieve all the benifits. I then entered into a contract with BDMC, who promised me that in return for loyal service and 6.5% of my income, they would invest that money and then furnish me with an additional pension to make retirement bearable. Both parties now wish to renage on those contracts in fact the council want to rewrite contacts every 3 months to suit their own agenda. BDMC have a standard reply to all that echoes down from the man on £200000+ pa, with a bullet proof pension plan. "If you are not happy with the wages and condition, then you know where the door is!" If we bend over and take this latest attack on pensions, how long before the Gov/Council, decide to issue yet one more section 188 ( A notice to change our contract of emmployment) again. Its time to stand up to the Gov, both private and public sector together and demand that we are all given a living wage and a pension that we deserve. Uther Pendragon

10:12pm Wed 30 Nov 11

darkhorse (he's a) says...

Andy2010 wrote:
A family friend of mine heard last week that her chemo treatment was cancelled today because of the strikes.....this just goes to show how everyone in the public sector couldnt give a flying **** about their jobs from teachers to nurses etc etc ....they are all in it for themselves
The government is not asking the public sector to change the terms of their pension because it is unafforable. The money should be there, but its been raided, and emptied. Why not renationalise the utilities, why not renationalise the railways instead of continually subsidising them to the tune of billions a year. These are rightly industries that are essential to our society, that should not be allowed to be run by private organisations who's only objective is to make profit. why should my taxes be used to subsidies those in the private sector, when I receive nothing in return, why should these organisations be allowed to keep the millions/billions in profit each year when they have been funded through our taxes, the profits these organisations make would clear the debt we are seeing. They were privatised by the conservatives in the 1980s, and along with it went a vast amount of income to the country. Question who profitted from it. With teachers, nurses, fireman you are receiving a very important service that many other countries are jealous of. Maybe instead of attacking the weakest target, you should look at those who are to blame, and point the finger at them. Unless you like picking on the weakest link that is. I wonder the next time you wonder into the A&E department you'll look at the staff working their and say they've got an easy life. If it's so easy, why don't you do it.
[quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: A family friend of mine heard last week that her chemo treatment was cancelled today because of the strikes.....this just goes to show how everyone in the public sector couldnt give a flying **** about their jobs from teachers to nurses etc etc ....they are all in it for themselves[/p][/quote]The government is not asking the public sector to change the terms of their pension because it is unafforable. The money should be there, but its been raided, and emptied. Why not renationalise the utilities, why not renationalise the railways instead of continually subsidising them to the tune of billions a year. These are rightly industries that are essential to our society, that should not be allowed to be run by private organisations who's only objective is to make profit. why should my taxes be used to subsidies those in the private sector, when I receive nothing in return, why should these organisations be allowed to keep the millions/billions in profit each year when they have been funded through our taxes, the profits these organisations make would clear the debt we are seeing. They were privatised by the conservatives in the 1980s, and along with it went a vast amount of income to the country. Question who profitted from it. With teachers, nurses, fireman you are receiving a very important service that many other countries are jealous of. Maybe instead of attacking the weakest target, you should look at those who are to blame, and point the finger at them. Unless you like picking on the weakest link that is. I wonder the next time you wonder into the A&E department you'll look at the staff working their and say they've got an easy life. If it's so easy, why don't you do it. darkhorse (he's a)

10:31pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Uther Pendragon says...

Well said Dark Horse.
The public servants are not the enemy!
Look to the leaders of this country and
ask, and lets be clear about this, "how is your income,expenses,priv
ate health and your pension package Mr Cameron/Clegg etc, etc?)
And then tell me again how you feel our pain.
Well said Dark Horse. The public servants are not the enemy! Look to the leaders of this country and ask, and lets be clear about this, "how is your income,expenses,priv ate health and your pension package Mr Cameron/Clegg etc, etc?) And then tell me again how you feel our pain. Uther Pendragon

10:31pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Uther Pendragon says...

Well said Dark Horse.
The public servants are not the enemy!
Look to the leaders of this country and
ask, and lets be clear about this, "how is your income,expenses,priv
ate health and your pension package Mr Cameron/Clegg etc, etc?)
And then tell me again how you feel our pain.
Well said Dark Horse. The public servants are not the enemy! Look to the leaders of this country and ask, and lets be clear about this, "how is your income,expenses,priv ate health and your pension package Mr Cameron/Clegg etc, etc?) And then tell me again how you feel our pain. Uther Pendragon

11:29pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Vegan Justice says...

Uther Pendragon wrote:
Well said Dark Horse.
The public servants are not the enemy!
Look to the leaders of this country and
ask, and lets be clear about this, "how is your income,expenses,priv

ate health and your pension package Mr Cameron/Clegg etc, etc?)
And then tell me again how you feel our pain.
Indeed! "we're all in this together"?
[quote][p][bold]Uther Pendragon[/bold] wrote: Well said Dark Horse. The public servants are not the enemy! Look to the leaders of this country and ask, and lets be clear about this, "how is your income,expenses,priv ate health and your pension package Mr Cameron/Clegg etc, etc?) And then tell me again how you feel our pain.[/p][/quote]Indeed! "we're all in this together"? Vegan Justice

11:33pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Vegan Justice says...

Yorkshire Lass wrote:
The comments on here are very interesting today. But no one has touched on the fact that when the Tories are in power it takes so much power from the Unions that they get on their high horses and use you poor workers as scape goats. After Margaret Thatcher crushed the unions in the 1980s they seem to disappear for a while. However under the last Labour rule they became rich again and in spite of you ordinary workers paying your subs every month, they get at least £500,000, from most of the Labour councils in this country. This money is yours and mine so really, you workers are paying twice for them to stay in top hotels, have great meals, great transport etc. etc. So they incite the normal worker to hopefully, bring down the Government. Hope you are all enjoying your day off, doing the Unions dirty work for them. If you have lost a day's pay today, remember that any Union member who has travelled to "support your caused" will be sat in a five star hotel tonight, free food and drinks, at your expense.
"This money is yours and mine....."

Actually, this whole country is yours and mine. The Aristocracy stole all the common land when they deliberately created a nation of landless peasants to work for them. In case you haven't noticed, it is the Aristocrats who are still in charge.
[quote][p][bold]Yorkshire Lass[/bold] wrote: The comments on here are very interesting today. But no one has touched on the fact that when the Tories are in power it takes so much power from the Unions that they get on their high horses and use you poor workers as scape goats. After Margaret Thatcher crushed the unions in the 1980s they seem to disappear for a while. However under the last Labour rule they became rich again and in spite of you ordinary workers paying your subs every month, they get at least £500,000, from most of the Labour councils in this country. This money is yours and mine so really, you workers are paying twice for them to stay in top hotels, have great meals, great transport etc. etc. So they incite the normal worker to hopefully, bring down the Government. Hope you are all enjoying your day off, doing the Unions dirty work for them. If you have lost a day's pay today, remember that any Union member who has travelled to "support your caused" will be sat in a five star hotel tonight, free food and drinks, at your expense.[/p][/quote]"This money is yours and mine....." Actually, this whole country is yours and mine. The Aristocracy stole all the common land when they deliberately created a nation of landless peasants to work for them. In case you haven't noticed, it is the Aristocrats who are still in charge. Vegan Justice

11:43pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Vegan Justice says...

SellingEnglandByTheP
ound
wrote:
Vegan Justice wrote:
SellingEnglandByTheP


ound
wrote:
Dont believe I was actually arguing with anyone. When it comes to childish insults, suggest you buy a mirror, if you can afford one peasant. And as for being a Tory, you are barking SO far up the wrong tree you're in a different forrest!
Gosh! someone who actually admits to being a Liberal?
Wrong again Landless! Keep going, you might get something right one day!
Then I take it you're an EDL/BNP neo-Nazi nutcase?
[quote][p][bold]SellingEnglandByTheP ound[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Vegan Justice[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]SellingEnglandByTheP ound[/bold] wrote: Dont believe I was actually arguing with anyone. When it comes to childish insults, suggest you buy a mirror, if you can afford one peasant. And as for being a Tory, you are barking SO far up the wrong tree you're in a different forrest![/p][/quote]Gosh! someone who actually admits to being a Liberal?[/p][/quote]Wrong again Landless! Keep going, you might get something right one day![/p][/quote]Then I take it you're an EDL/BNP neo-Nazi nutcase? Vegan Justice

11:43pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Vegan Justice says...

SellingEnglandByTheP
ound
wrote:
Vegan Justice wrote:
SellingEnglandByTheP


ound
wrote:
Dont believe I was actually arguing with anyone. When it comes to childish insults, suggest you buy a mirror, if you can afford one peasant. And as for being a Tory, you are barking SO far up the wrong tree you're in a different forrest!
Gosh! someone who actually admits to being a Liberal?
Wrong again Landless! Keep going, you might get something right one day!
Then I take it you're an EDL/BNP neo-Nazi nutcase?
[quote][p][bold]SellingEnglandByTheP ound[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Vegan Justice[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]SellingEnglandByTheP ound[/bold] wrote: Dont believe I was actually arguing with anyone. When it comes to childish insults, suggest you buy a mirror, if you can afford one peasant. And as for being a Tory, you are barking SO far up the wrong tree you're in a different forrest![/p][/quote]Gosh! someone who actually admits to being a Liberal?[/p][/quote]Wrong again Landless! Keep going, you might get something right one day![/p][/quote]Then I take it you're an EDL/BNP neo-Nazi nutcase? Vegan Justice

11:47pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Vegan Justice says...

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
I think Thepointis will no doubt disappear as the questions become to difficult to answer and increasingly harder to avoid.
.
He'll pop back up as one of his alter egos, such as Landless Peasent, Vegan Justice, etc.
.
I notice his Vegan Justice alter ego when quiet after he stated all disabled people should just live off the state and benefits.
Went quiet? Well if I were disabled I wouldn't for a minute even consider applying for a job. In fact I have often contemplated deliberately injuring myself just to get a sick note.
[quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: I think Thepointis will no doubt disappear as the questions become to difficult to answer and increasingly harder to avoid. . He'll pop back up as one of his alter egos, such as Landless Peasent, Vegan Justice, etc. . I notice his Vegan Justice alter ego when quiet after he stated all disabled people should just live off the state and benefits.[/p][/quote]Went quiet? Well if I were disabled I wouldn't for a minute even consider applying for a job. In fact I have often contemplated deliberately injuring myself just to get a sick note. Vegan Justice

12:05am Thu 1 Dec 11

Vegan Justice says...

angry bradfordian wrote:
'I object to being taxed for working for the NHS'

I work for a private company and get taxed to pay for the NHS, Social Security, Defence, Infrastructure etc etc- that's how tax works.
Perhaps Jackie Smith would like to suggest who she expects to pay for her pension. No doubt that will be the bankers again.
Yes, the Bankers most certainly SHOULD pay for all our pensions.
[quote][p][bold]angry bradfordian[/bold] wrote: 'I object to being taxed for working for the NHS' I work for a private company and get taxed to pay for the NHS, Social Security, Defence, Infrastructure etc etc- that's how tax works. Perhaps Jackie Smith would like to suggest who she expects to pay for her pension. No doubt that will be the bankers again.[/p][/quote]Yes, the Bankers most certainly SHOULD pay for all our pensions. Vegan Justice

8:05am Thu 1 Dec 11

SellingEnglandByThePound says...

Vegan Justice wrote:
SellingEnglandByTheP

ound
wrote:
Vegan Justice wrote:
SellingEnglandByTheP



ound
wrote:
Dont believe I was actually arguing with anyone. When it comes to childish insults, suggest you buy a mirror, if you can afford one peasant. And as for being a Tory, you are barking SO far up the wrong tree you're in a different forrest!
Gosh! someone who actually admits to being a Liberal?
Wrong again Landless! Keep going, you might get something right one day!
Then I take it you're an EDL/BNP neo-Nazi nutcase?
You really are c**p at guessing games aren't you landless? Go on then, i'll give you one more go!
[quote][p][bold]Vegan Justice[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]SellingEnglandByTheP ound[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Vegan Justice[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]SellingEnglandByTheP ound[/bold] wrote: Dont believe I was actually arguing with anyone. When it comes to childish insults, suggest you buy a mirror, if you can afford one peasant. And as for being a Tory, you are barking SO far up the wrong tree you're in a different forrest![/p][/quote]Gosh! someone who actually admits to being a Liberal?[/p][/quote]Wrong again Landless! Keep going, you might get something right one day![/p][/quote]Then I take it you're an EDL/BNP neo-Nazi nutcase?[/p][/quote]You really are c**p at guessing games aren't you landless? Go on then, i'll give you one more go! SellingEnglandByThePound

8:24am Thu 1 Dec 11

angry bradfordian says...

darkhorse (he's a) wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
A family friend of mine heard last week that her chemo treatment was cancelled today because of the strikes.....this just goes to show how everyone in the public sector couldnt give a flying **** about their jobs from teachers to nurses etc etc ....they are all in it for themselves
The government is not asking the public sector to change the terms of their pension because it is unafforable. The money should be there, but its been raided, and emptied. Why not renationalise the utilities, why not renationalise the railways instead of continually subsidising them to the tune of billions a year. These are rightly industries that are essential to our society, that should not be allowed to be run by private organisations who's only objective is to make profit. why should my taxes be used to subsidies those in the private sector, when I receive nothing in return, why should these organisations be allowed to keep the millions/billions in profit each year when they have been funded through our taxes, the profits these organisations make would clear the debt we are seeing. They were privatised by the conservatives in the 1980s, and along with it went a vast amount of income to the country. Question who profitted from it. With teachers, nurses, fireman you are receiving a very important service that many other countries are jealous of. Maybe instead of attacking the weakest target, you should look at those who are to blame, and point the finger at them. Unless you like picking on the weakest link that is. I wonder the next time you wonder into the A&E department you'll look at the staff working their and say they've got an easy life. If it's so easy, why don't you do it.
Most people who have commented against the strikes haven't been 'attacking' the teachers and nurses as much as questioning why they think they deserve better conditions than the rest of us.

It's an important fact to remember that all these big companies you seem to think are owned by the 'bankers' are in a lot of cases largely owned by pension funds, so are in a way owned by 'us'- or at least those of us who have been investing in our own pensions rather than expecting other people to subsidise us.
[quote][p][bold]darkhorse (he's a)[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: A family friend of mine heard last week that her chemo treatment was cancelled today because of the strikes.....this just goes to show how everyone in the public sector couldnt give a flying **** about their jobs from teachers to nurses etc etc ....they are all in it for themselves[/p][/quote]The government is not asking the public sector to change the terms of their pension because it is unafforable. The money should be there, but its been raided, and emptied. Why not renationalise the utilities, why not renationalise the railways instead of continually subsidising them to the tune of billions a year. These are rightly industries that are essential to our society, that should not be allowed to be run by private organisations who's only objective is to make profit. why should my taxes be used to subsidies those in the private sector, when I receive nothing in return, why should these organisations be allowed to keep the millions/billions in profit each year when they have been funded through our taxes, the profits these organisations make would clear the debt we are seeing. They were privatised by the conservatives in the 1980s, and along with it went a vast amount of income to the country. Question who profitted from it. With teachers, nurses, fireman you are receiving a very important service that many other countries are jealous of. Maybe instead of attacking the weakest target, you should look at those who are to blame, and point the finger at them. Unless you like picking on the weakest link that is. I wonder the next time you wonder into the A&E department you'll look at the staff working their and say they've got an easy life. If it's so easy, why don't you do it.[/p][/quote]Most people who have commented against the strikes haven't been 'attacking' the teachers and nurses as much as questioning why they think they deserve better conditions than the rest of us. It's an important fact to remember that all these big companies you seem to think are owned by the 'bankers' are in a lot of cases largely owned by pension funds, so are in a way owned by 'us'- or at least those of us who have been investing in our own pensions rather than expecting other people to subsidise us. angry bradfordian

9:30am Thu 1 Dec 11

Thee Voice of Reason says...

Vegan Justice wrote:
Old Peculiar wrote: If you think that striking will get you support from the general public, you are very very much mistaken. Get back to work, you pathetic, bone idle, any excuse for a day off, whinging wasters. The sooner you wake up, and realise that eveything isn't rosy in our green and pleasant financial garden, the better for us all ; especially our children, who are having ANOTHER day of NO EDUCATION at your expense.
The Public Sector have huge sympathy from the general public, for your information. Let me remind that the Tories didn't gain power by winning an election. As for your children, they will not gain an education at all if Gove has his way, they'll be up chimneys instead.
How can you comment for the private sector workers when you sit on your ar$e claiming benefits?
[quote][p][bold]Vegan Justice[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Old Peculiar[/bold] wrote: If you think that striking will get you support from the general public, you are very very much mistaken. Get back to work, you pathetic, bone idle, any excuse for a day off, whinging wasters. The sooner you wake up, and realise that eveything isn't rosy in our green and pleasant financial garden, the better for us all ; especially our children, who are having ANOTHER day of NO EDUCATION at your expense.[/p][/quote]The Public Sector have huge sympathy from the general public, for your information. Let me remind that the Tories didn't gain power by winning an election. As for your children, they will not gain an education at all if Gove has his way, they'll be up chimneys instead.[/p][/quote]How can you comment for the private sector workers when you sit on your ar$e claiming benefits? Thee Voice of Reason

9:54am Thu 1 Dec 11

angry bradfordian says...

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
Vegan Justice wrote:
Old Peculiar wrote: If you think that striking will get you support from the general public, you are very very much mistaken. Get back to work, you pathetic, bone idle, any excuse for a day off, whinging wasters. The sooner you wake up, and realise that eveything isn't rosy in our green and pleasant financial garden, the better for us all ; especially our children, who are having ANOTHER day of NO EDUCATION at your expense.
The Public Sector have huge sympathy from the general public, for your information. Let me remind that the Tories didn't gain power by winning an election. As for your children, they will not gain an education at all if Gove has his way, they'll be up chimneys instead.
How can you comment for the private sector workers when you sit on your ar$e claiming benefits?
Don't know how many people have voted in the T&A poll, but it would suggest that the public sector don't actually have 'huge sympathy' from the general public.

There is an argument to suggest that anybody who's sat at home, thinking they have the right to benefits has forfeited their right to even comment on the use of tax money.
[quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Vegan Justice[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Old Peculiar[/bold] wrote: If you think that striking will get you support from the general public, you are very very much mistaken. Get back to work, you pathetic, bone idle, any excuse for a day off, whinging wasters. The sooner you wake up, and realise that eveything isn't rosy in our green and pleasant financial garden, the better for us all ; especially our children, who are having ANOTHER day of NO EDUCATION at your expense.[/p][/quote]The Public Sector have huge sympathy from the general public, for your information. Let me remind that the Tories didn't gain power by winning an election. As for your children, they will not gain an education at all if Gove has his way, they'll be up chimneys instead.[/p][/quote]How can you comment for the private sector workers when you sit on your ar$e claiming benefits?[/p][/quote]Don't know how many people have voted in the T&A poll, but it would suggest that the public sector don't actually have 'huge sympathy' from the general public. There is an argument to suggest that anybody who's sat at home, thinking they have the right to benefits has forfeited their right to even comment on the use of tax money. angry bradfordian

10:16am Thu 1 Dec 11

bobbyo says...

either leave the retirement age as it is or reduce it, preferebly reduce it, i,ve worked since leaving school at 16 i,l soon be 60. let some of the out of work younger generation have the jobs, i certainly dont want to be working till i,m 65, 70, 75, and such.
either leave the retirement age as it is or reduce it, preferebly reduce it, i,ve worked since leaving school at 16 i,l soon be 60. let some of the out of work younger generation have the jobs, i certainly dont want to be working till i,m 65, 70, 75, and such. bobbyo

10:29am Thu 1 Dec 11

Thee Voice of Reason says...

Vegan Justice wrote:
angry bradfordian wrote: 'I object to being taxed for working for the NHS' I work for a private company and get taxed to pay for the NHS, Social Security, Defence, Infrastructure etc etc- that's how tax works. Perhaps Jackie Smith would like to suggest who she expects to pay for her pension. No doubt that will be the bankers again.
Yes, the Bankers most certainly SHOULD pay for all our pensions.
Except for the work shy, like some on here. Nudge, Nudge, Wink, Wink, say no more.
[quote][p][bold]Vegan Justice[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]angry bradfordian[/bold] wrote: 'I object to being taxed for working for the NHS' I work for a private company and get taxed to pay for the NHS, Social Security, Defence, Infrastructure etc etc- that's how tax works. Perhaps Jackie Smith would like to suggest who she expects to pay for her pension. No doubt that will be the bankers again.[/p][/quote]Yes, the Bankers most certainly SHOULD pay for all our pensions.[/p][/quote]Except for the work shy, like some on here. Nudge, Nudge, Wink, Wink, say no more. Thee Voice of Reason

11:44am Thu 1 Dec 11

Hulagu says...

Well all you mugs, it looks like your union bosses are speaking with the government again, pity you all lost a days wages!

They'll all be sat round a table enjoying a slap up meal with fine wine laughing at you all!

"and the animals turned from pig to to man and man to pig"
You know the score...
Well all you mugs, it looks like your union bosses are speaking with the government again, pity you all lost a days wages! They'll all be sat round a table enjoying a slap up meal with fine wine laughing at you all! "and the animals turned from pig to to man and man to pig" You know the score... Hulagu

12:27pm Thu 1 Dec 11

angry bradfordian says...

Hulagu wrote:
Well all you mugs, it looks like your union bosses are speaking with the government again, pity you all lost a days wages!

They'll all be sat round a table enjoying a slap up meal with fine wine laughing at you all!

"and the animals turned from pig to to man and man to pig"
You know the score...
No, they're actually too bust wasting their members subs on paying for legal advice on whether to make a complaint about Clarkson and his silly comments.

I'd love a union member to comment if they think this is a constructive use of their money, or just another of their digs at a member of the middle classes.
[quote][p][bold]Hulagu[/bold] wrote: Well all you mugs, it looks like your union bosses are speaking with the government again, pity you all lost a days wages! They'll all be sat round a table enjoying a slap up meal with fine wine laughing at you all! "and the animals turned from pig to to man and man to pig" You know the score...[/p][/quote]No, they're actually too bust wasting their members subs on paying for legal advice on whether to make a complaint about Clarkson and his silly comments. I'd love a union member to comment if they think this is a constructive use of their money, or just another of their digs at a member of the middle classes. angry bradfordian

12:46pm Thu 1 Dec 11

aje2010 says...

SellingEnglandByTheP
ound
wrote:
Dont believe I was actually arguing with anyone. When it comes to childish insults, suggest you buy a mirror, if you can afford one peasant. And as for being a Tory, you are barking SO far up the wrong tree you're in a different forrest!
lol
[quote][p][bold]SellingEnglandByTheP ound[/bold] wrote: Dont believe I was actually arguing with anyone. When it comes to childish insults, suggest you buy a mirror, if you can afford one peasant. And as for being a Tory, you are barking SO far up the wrong tree you're in a different forrest![/p][/quote]lol aje2010

2:27pm Thu 1 Dec 11

hortonite says...

i wish there could be more strikes, apart from the fact it was almost impossible to do any xmas shopping yesterday because it seems that was the whole point of yesterdays holiday. on a positive note the roads were lovely and clear, hardly any traffic at all, but it makes me wonder if half of bradford is employed in "local government" because there were so few peole outside the shops. before anyone tries to jump on the bandwagon, i work a 3 on 3 off shift pattern and am on my rest days. i'm one of the few people in bradford who WORK for what they want out of life and yes i do have a company pension and am now contributing twice the amount i did a few years ago, will receive a much lower pension and will have to work seven years longer than i originally planned to. i still have some xmas shopping to do and would appreciate advance warning of the next "holiday" so i can plan my shopping around it
i wish there could be more strikes, apart from the fact it was almost impossible to do any xmas shopping yesterday because it seems that was the whole point of yesterdays holiday. on a positive note the roads were lovely and clear, hardly any traffic at all, but it makes me wonder if half of bradford is employed in "local government" because there were so few peole outside the shops. before anyone tries to jump on the bandwagon, i work a 3 on 3 off shift pattern and am on my rest days. i'm one of the few people in bradford who WORK for what they want out of life and yes i do have a company pension and am now contributing twice the amount i did a few years ago, will receive a much lower pension and will have to work seven years longer than i originally planned to. i still have some xmas shopping to do and would appreciate advance warning of the next "holiday" so i can plan my shopping around it hortonite

6:53pm Thu 1 Dec 11

MisterBD says...

I could not agree more hortonite, I would add just one thing, if people are not happy with the situation- nobody forces them to stay in these jobs
I could not agree more hortonite, I would add just one thing, if people are not happy with the situation- nobody forces them to stay in these jobs MisterBD

9:31pm Fri 2 Dec 11

NOTSOCOMMENSENSE says...

Another hard week in the public sector:

Monday: Diversity training
Tuesday: Planning for strike day
Wednesday: On strike/Xmas shopping
Thursday: Whole day **** about Clarkson
Friday: Sickie
Another hard week in the public sector: Monday: Diversity training Tuesday: Planning for strike day Wednesday: On strike/Xmas shopping Thursday: Whole day **** about Clarkson Friday: Sickie NOTSOCOMMENSENSE

9:31pm Fri 2 Dec 11

NOTSOCOMMENSENSE says...

Another hard week in the public sector:

Monday: Diversity training
Tuesday: Planning for strike day
Wednesday: On strike/Xmas shopping
Thursday: Whole day **** about Clarkson
Friday: Sickie
Another hard week in the public sector: Monday: Diversity training Tuesday: Planning for strike day Wednesday: On strike/Xmas shopping Thursday: Whole day **** about Clarkson Friday: Sickie NOTSOCOMMENSENSE

9:49am Sat 3 Dec 11

Oldwestbowling says...

It would seem that your username describes you to a T. You clearly make this tosh up as you go along. I was tempted to ask what you did for a living but changed my mind as we could be treated to another fairy story and there are enough of those on here already.
It would seem that your username describes you to a T. You clearly make this tosh up as you go along. I was tempted to ask what you did for a living but changed my mind as we could be treated to another fairy story and there are enough of those on here already. Oldwestbowling

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