Strikers takes to the streets of Bradford (From Bradford Telegraph and Argus)

thepointis wrote:
All that you pay the public servants pay they pay tax too ...they pay for their own pensions .
Lets sack the person who works next to YOU and you can do his work...then we will increase what you have to pay for your pension and make it so you have to work an extra 5 or 6 years...and as a bonus when you get your pension it will be worth 25 percent less....yaaay .
Oh wait a minute in the mean time we are going to give you 90 days notice then sack you and rehire you but on less money .
What do you expect them to do sit there and take it ? if so go and buy a pair of extra long slippers and a red nose i have the perfect job for you.

Joedavid wrote:
T&A can you do an article on these peoples pensions and how they compare to those of us who are in normal employment and our pension schemes. Because our impression is they work less years and pay less in per month yet get decent pensions when they retire.

angry bradfordian wrote:

thepointis wrote:
All that you pay the public servants pay they pay tax too ...they pay for their own pensions .
Lets sack the person who works next to YOU and you can do his work...then we will increase what you have to pay for your pension and make it so you have to work an extra 5 or 6 years...and as a bonus when you get your pension it will be worth 25 percent less....yaaay .
Oh wait a minute in the mean time we are going to give you 90 days notice then sack you and rehire you but on less money .
What do you expect them to do sit there and take it ? if so go and buy a pair of extra long slippers and a red nose i have the perfect job for you.

Everybody is having to work 5 or 6 years longer, as we're all living at least 10 years longer than we used to do.
To try and keep a retirement age at 60 because 'it's what's always happened' is ludicrous. Working on that logic we'd never have brought in the minimum wage, got the working time regulations or flexible childcare because it's how it's always been.
These workers seem to want to pick & choose what stays the same.

Old Peculiar wrote:
If you think that striking will get you support from the general public, you are very very much mistaken.
Get back to work, you pathetic, bone idle, any excuse for a day off, whinging wasters.
The sooner you wake up, and realise that eveything isn't rosy in our green and pleasant financial garden, the better for us all ; especially our children, who are having ANOTHER day of NO EDUCATION at your expense.

bradfordian wrote:
I fully support the strikers. This government have cut more public sector jobs than any other job, fact.. When you have lost your services you wi have no right to compain. You cannot have it both ways.

bradfordian wrote:
I fully support the strikers. This government have cut more public sector jobs than any other job, fact.. When you have lost your services you wi have no right to compain. You cannot have it both ways.

thepointis wrote:

angry bradfordian wrote:

thepointis wrote:
All that you pay the public servants pay they pay tax too ...they pay for their own pensions .
Lets sack the person who works next to YOU and you can do his work...then we will increase what you have to pay for your pension and make it so you have to work an extra 5 or 6 years...and as a bonus when you get your pension it will be worth 25 percent less....yaaay .
Oh wait a minute in the mean time we are going to give you 90 days notice then sack you and rehire you but on less money .
What do you expect them to do sit there and take it ? if so go and buy a pair of extra long slippers and a red nose i have the perfect job for you.

Everybody is having to work 5 or 6 years longer, as we're all living at least 10 years longer than we used to do.
To try and keep a retirement age at 60 because 'it's what's always happened' is ludicrous. Working on that logic we'd never have brought in the minimum wage, got the working time regulations or flexible childcare because it's how it's always been.
These workers seem to want to pick & choose what stays the same.

Do you include the mps ? the bankers ?
And your minimum wage point ..utterley ridiculous and small minded.

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:

bradfordian wrote:
I fully support the strikers. This government have cut more public sector jobs than any other job, fact.. When you have lost your services you wi have no right to compain. You cannot have it both ways.

What kind of stupid comment is that.
.
"This government have cut more public sector jobs than any other job"
.
The government as the employer can only cut public sector jobs, it can't walk into the private sector and start sacking those people can it?
.
Anyhow the strikes are not about the cutting of jobs, it the people with jobs who are striking because they are being asked to change to terms which are more affordable to the country as a whole. It's not about cutting jobs.

angry bradfordian wrote:

thepointis wrote:

angry bradfordian wrote:

thepointis wrote:
All that you pay the public servants pay they pay tax too ...they pay for their own pensions .
Lets sack the person who works next to YOU and you can do his work...then we will increase what you have to pay for your pension and make it so you have to work an extra 5 or 6 years...and as a bonus when you get your pension it will be worth 25 percent less....yaaay .
Oh wait a minute in the mean time we are going to give you 90 days notice then sack you and rehire you but on less money .
What do you expect them to do sit there and take it ? if so go and buy a pair of extra long slippers and a red nose i have the perfect job for you.

Everybody is having to work 5 or 6 years longer, as we're all living at least 10 years longer than we used to do.
To try and keep a retirement age at 60 because 'it's what's always happened' is ludicrous. Working on that logic we'd never have brought in the minimum wage, got the working time regulations or flexible childcare because it's how it's always been.
These workers seem to want to pick & choose what stays the same.

Do you include the mps ? the bankers ?
And your minimum wage point ..utterley ridiculous and small minded.

Why would I include MP's?- there are a grand total of 650 of them in a population of 60 million- I agree they should only get a pension at 65/66/67 like the rest of us.
As for bankers, they can take their pension when they like as they've been putting their own money into in from money paid to them from a private company.

My example of the minimum wage was to highlight the union's apparant demand to keep things the same. If it's an acceptable theory for pensions, why change any laws, conditions or systems?

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
Didn't take long for the bankers to come up did it.
.
This needed to be done and if you want any proof in the matter look at how the Labour party are not standing behind the unions on this one, because they know they would have had to do the same, they just put it off in order to keep votes in the last election.

thepointis wrote:
All that you pay the public servants pay they pay tax too ...they pay for their own pensions .
Lets sack the person who works next to YOU and you can do his work...then we will increase what you have to pay for your pension and make it so you have to work an extra 5 or 6 years...and as a bonus when you get your pension it will be worth 25 percent less....yaaay .
Oh wait a minute in the mean time we are going to give you 90 days notice then sack you and rehire you but on less money .
What do you expect them to do sit there and take it ? if so go and buy a pair of extra long slippers and a red nose i have the perfect job for you.

flashdonut wrote:

thepointis wrote:
All that you pay the public servants pay they pay tax too ...they pay for their own pensions .
Lets sack the person who works next to YOU and you can do his work...then we will increase what you have to pay for your pension and make it so you have to work an extra 5 or 6 years...and as a bonus when you get your pension it will be worth 25 percent less....yaaay .
Oh wait a minute in the mean time we are going to give you 90 days notice then sack you and rehire you but on less money .
What do you expect them to do sit there and take it ? if so go and buy a pair of extra long slippers and a red nose i have the perfect job for you.

Errr. The recession forced my company to make redundancies. So I do have to do other peoples work. I have not had a pay rise in 4 years. We were also asked to take a 20% pay reduction every 3rd month to avoid more redundancies (this lasted for 14months) So I am worse off. A lot of of the Public Sector got a pay rise - even though there was a pay freeze. Because you moved up the scale in your payment band. I know this, because my sister is a teacher.
.
I took it. Because that is how the world is at the moment. Sure I want 3% pay increase every year, and I don't want to have to work 9 and a half hour days and Saturday mornings when I am contracted to a 39 hour week.
.
But when my alarm goes off, i wake up in 2011, in England. Not in a Fairy Tale or some make believe land.
The country (and the rst of the world more or less) is crocked. Admit it, except it, move on.

angry bradfordian wrote:

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
Didn't take long for the bankers to come up did it.
.
This needed to be done and if you want any proof in the matter look at how the Labour party are not standing behind the unions on this one, because they know they would have had to do the same, they just put it off in order to keep votes in the last election.

Yes, it seems to be an inconvenient truth to the protesters.
I read on the BBC website yesterday that 1/8 of all tax revenue comes from the finance industry taxes & levies (before the worker's tax) so they already contribute more than their fair share to the economy.

NOTSOCOMMENSENSE wrote:
Teachers should only get 75% of a pension anyway,most have stopped marking/working at home only work 7 hour days less lunch and have more holidays than mps (@ 12 weeks = 3 months) + some think they have to take the sick days they are allowed and still take an extra weeks worth of days not teaching in training days why can this not be done in scool holiday time. So when your feeling sympathy for these people if your not an mp/teacher think how it compares to your life

thepointis wrote:

NOTSOCOMMENSENSE wrote: Teachers should only get 75% of a pension anyway,most have stopped marking/working at home only work 7 hour days less lunch and have more holidays than mps (@ 12 weeks = 3 months) + some think they have to take the sick days they are allowed and still take an extra weeks worth of days not teaching in training days why can this not be done in scool holiday time. So when your feeling sympathy for these people if your not an mp/teacher think how it compares to your life

so your off school today .

thepointis wrote:
They are are not losing their job's ? over 400,000 jobs are to go and the work those 400,00 did will have to be done by those remaining.

angry bradfordian wrote:
The economy is too complicated a system to blame purely on the 'bankers', especially if you are suggesting that it's all down to UK bankers to suddenly prop up the entire British public sector pension system.
There are many causes of the currently problems. Some of it is down to the US Sub-prime issues, some of it is down to the 'one size fits all' Euro.
Some of it is down to our banks giving mortgages to people who couldn't afford it. This means that you, me & anybody else who irresponsibly borrowed money beyond their means is also responsible.
And whilst all this was going on, our government carried on spending money we didn't have and ignored what the bankers were doing.
All this is probably why Labour are being more than a tad sheepish about the strike action and all the politicians of all sides are a bunch of hypocrites as long as they blame each other for this mess.

NOTSOCOMMENSENSE wrote:

thepointis wrote:

NOTSOCOMMENSENSE wrote: Teachers should only get 75% of a pension anyway,most have stopped marking/working at home only work 7 hour days less lunch and have more holidays than mps (@ 12 weeks = 3 months) + some think they have to take the sick days they are allowed and still take an extra weeks worth of days not teaching in training days why can this not be done in scool holiday time. So when your feeling sympathy for these people if your not an mp/teacher think how it compares to your life

so your off school today .

Looks like you stopped at home in the warm instead of joining your comrades on the picket line,
ps are the binmen working todaydoes anybody know?

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:

thepointis wrote:
They are are not losing their job's ? over 400,000 jobs are to go and the work those 400,00 did will have to be done by those remaining.

The point of these strikes is they are about terms of pensions, not about loss of jobs, have you got that yet?
.
Looking at the bigger picture, maybe if they were more accepting of the situation and came to a comprimise on pensions, then maybe there would be enough money to keep people employed. If the unions won't budge then jobs will have to be lost. You can't have it both ways and keep pensions the same whilst keeping the same number of employees.

thepointis wrote:

angry bradfordian wrote: The economy is too complicated a system to blame purely on the 'bankers', especially if you are suggesting that it's all down to UK bankers to suddenly prop up the entire British public sector pension system. There are many causes of the currently problems. Some of it is down to the US Sub-prime issues, some of it is down to the 'one size fits all' Euro. Some of it is down to our banks giving mortgages to people who couldn't afford it. This means that you, me & anybody else who irresponsibly borrowed money beyond their means is also responsible. And whilst all this was going on, our government carried on spending money we didn't have and ignored what the bankers were doing. All this is probably why Labour are being more than a tad sheepish about the strike action and all the politicians of all sides are a bunch of hypocrites as long as they blame each other for this mess.

No its not...And all the causes have come about because of Uk , risky high reward European and American financial practices. Whatever way you look at this mess it primary cause was greedy bankers .

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
Do the people striking realise that those who are the lower paid won't be required to pay more in contributions or have contributions capped or have they been fed some yarn from the union reps?
.
The fact canteen staff and cleaners are joining the strikes along with bin men suggests we have either some highly paid canteen staff, cleaners and bin men or they are being told by the unions they are going to be effected by changes that really won't effect them.

thepointis wrote:

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:

thepointis wrote: They are are not losing their job's ? over 400,000 jobs are to go and the work those 400,00 did will have to be done by those remaining.

The point of these strikes is they are about terms of pensions, not about loss of jobs, have you got that yet? . Looking at the bigger picture, maybe if they were more accepting of the situation and came to a comprimise on pensions, then maybe there would be enough money to keep people employed. If the unions won't budge then jobs will have to be lost. You can't have it both ways and keep pensions the same whilst keeping the same number of employees.

You just said they werent losing there jobs ? now they are but it not about that ? this is about making a stand.

moanmoanwhingewhinge wrote:

Old Peculiar wrote: If you think that striking will get you support from the general public, you are very very much mistaken. Get back to work, you pathetic, bone idle, any excuse for a day off, whinging wasters. The sooner you wake up, and realise that eveything isn't rosy in our green and pleasant financial garden, the better for us all ; especially our children, who are having ANOTHER day of NO EDUCATION at your expense.

And your working hard today are you?? Why not research exactly why these people feel forced into action, in order to give a reasoned argument, rather than just hysterically spouting whatever crap you've read in the Daily Mail, you pathetic, whingeing, Tory loving tw@

Old Peculiar wrote:
If you think that striking will get you support from the general public, you are very very much mistaken.
Get back to work, you pathetic, bone idle, any excuse for a day off, whinging wasters.
The sooner you wake up, and realise that eveything isn't rosy in our green and pleasant financial garden, the better for us all ; especially our children, who are having ANOTHER day of NO EDUCATION at your expense.

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:

thepointis wrote:

angry bradfordian wrote: The economy is too complicated a system to blame purely on the 'bankers', especially if you are suggesting that it's all down to UK bankers to suddenly prop up the entire British public sector pension system. There are many causes of the currently problems. Some of it is down to the US Sub-prime issues, some of it is down to the 'one size fits all' Euro. Some of it is down to our banks giving mortgages to people who couldn't afford it. This means that you, me & anybody else who irresponsibly borrowed money beyond their means is also responsible. And whilst all this was going on, our government carried on spending money we didn't have and ignored what the bankers were doing. All this is probably why Labour are being more than a tad sheepish about the strike action and all the politicians of all sides are a bunch of hypocrites as long as they blame each other for this mess.

No its not...And all the causes have come about because of Uk , risky high reward European and American financial practices. Whatever way you look at this mess it primary cause was greedy bankers .

What about the fact the Labour government during boom years was still borrowing money, and that they left the country paying more money in interest repayments than we spend on the defense budget.
.
Also what about the fact pensions cost more because people are living alot longer.
.
There is a whole host of reasons and you it seems have been brainwashed into thinking it's just down to bankers and no one else.
.
Mr Brown wasn't complaining at all the tax money the bankers were bringing in whilst he was in the treasury.

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:

thepointis wrote:

angry bradfordian wrote: The economy is too complicated a system to blame purely on the 'bankers', especially if you are suggesting that it's all down to UK bankers to suddenly prop up the entire British public sector pension system. There are many causes of the currently problems. Some of it is down to the US Sub-prime issues, some of it is down to the 'one size fits all' Euro. Some of it is down to our banks giving mortgages to people who couldn't afford it. This means that you, me & anybody else who irresponsibly borrowed money beyond their means is also responsible. And whilst all this was going on, our government carried on spending money we didn't have and ignored what the bankers were doing. All this is probably why Labour are being more than a tad sheepish about the strike action and all the politicians of all sides are a bunch of hypocrites as long as they blame each other for this mess.

No its not...And all the causes have come about because of Uk , risky high reward European and American financial practices. Whatever way you look at this mess it primary cause was greedy bankers .

What about the fact the Labour government during boom years was still borrowing money, and that they left the country paying more money in interest repayments than we spend on the defense budget.
.
Also what about the fact pensions cost more because people are living alot longer.
.
There is a whole host of reasons and you it seems have been brainwashed into thinking it's just down to bankers and no one else.
.
Mr Brown wasn't complaining at all the tax money the bankers were bringing in whilst he was in the treasury.

Old Peculiar wrote:
If you think that striking will get you support from the general public, you are very very much mistaken.
Get back to work, you pathetic, bone idle, any excuse for a day off, whinging wasters.
The sooner you wake up, and realise that eveything isn't rosy in our green and pleasant financial garden, the better for us all ; especially our children, who are having ANOTHER day of NO EDUCATION at your expense.

AMDRAM wrote:
Take it all the teachers have gone on an away day - didn't see any of them protesting outside their schools - - nice little day off then - as if they don't get enough with the 13 week hols! Hear they only lose 1/2 a day's pay as well - not a full day like everyone else!

thepointis wrote:

NOTSOCOMMENSENSE wrote:

thepointis wrote:

NOTSOCOMMENSENSE wrote: Teachers should only get 75% of a pension anyway,most have stopped marking/working at home only work 7 hour days less lunch and have more holidays than mps (@ 12 weeks = 3 months) + some think they have to take the sick days they are allowed and still take an extra weeks worth of days not teaching in training days why can this not be done in scool holiday time. So when your feeling sympathy for these people if your not an mp/teacher think how it compares to your life

so your off school today .

Looks like you stopped at home in the warm instead of joining your comrades on the picket line, ps are the binmen working todaydoes anybody know?

I am one of the unlucky ones who lost their job.

NOTSOCOMMENSENSE wrote:
Ps Wonder why there wasn't this much noise when Brown and Blair Plundered the pensions when they were in office (wonder where Blair pays his taxes now as he works out of the country after hanging on an extra 12 months so he would get nearlly double pension)

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:

thepointis wrote:

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:

thepointis wrote: They are are not losing their job's ? over 400,000 jobs are to go and the work those 400,00 did will have to be done by those remaining.

The point of these strikes is they are about terms of pensions, not about loss of jobs, have you got that yet? . Looking at the bigger picture, maybe if they were more accepting of the situation and came to a comprimise on pensions, then maybe there would be enough money to keep people employed. If the unions won't budge then jobs will have to be lost. You can't have it both ways and keep pensions the same whilst keeping the same number of employees.

You just said they werent losing there jobs ? now they are but it not about that ? this is about making a stand.

I said the strike action is not about losing jobs it's about protecting pensions. If they were striking about jobs cuts they may have got more sympathy from the public but they aren't striking about jobs cuts.
.
I noticed you pretty much ignored the valid point I put to you regarding comprimise on pensions might save jobs in the long term.

NOTSOCOMMENSENSE wrote:

thepointis wrote:

NOTSOCOMMENSENSE wrote:

thepointis wrote:

NOTSOCOMMENSENSE wrote: Teachers should only get 75% of a pension anyway,most have stopped marking/working at home only work 7 hour days less lunch and have more holidays than mps (@ 12 weeks = 3 months) + some think they have to take the sick days they are allowed and still take an extra weeks worth of days not teaching in training days why can this not be done in scool holiday time. So when your feeling sympathy for these people if your not an mp/teacher think how it compares to your life

so your off school today .

Looks like you stopped at home in the warm instead of joining your comrades on the picket line, ps are the binmen working todaydoes anybody know?

I am one of the unlucky ones who lost their job.

i lost mine as well 12 months ago without any pension to come but this isnt about job losses this is about the over generous pensions paid to public sector workers whos pay is now as good if not better (especially with the perks and bonuses some get ie tax inspectors if they discover wrong doing thought that was their job did you know the basic wage for a bin man when i looked a few years ago was £12k with a 100% guarenteed enhancement) than the majority of private sector workers.If they dont want the jobs let them step aside for people who would gladly do them

thepointis wrote:

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:

thepointis wrote:

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:

thepointis wrote: They are are not losing their job's ? over 400,000 jobs are to go and the work those 400,00 did will have to be done by those remaining.

The point of these strikes is they are about terms of pensions, not about loss of jobs, have you got that yet? . Looking at the bigger picture, maybe if they were more accepting of the situation and came to a comprimise on pensions, then maybe there would be enough money to keep people employed. If the unions won't budge then jobs will have to be lost. You can't have it both ways and keep pensions the same whilst keeping the same number of employees.

You just said they werent losing there jobs ? now they are but it not about that ? this is about making a stand.

I said the strike action is not about losing jobs it's about protecting pensions. If they were striking about jobs cuts they may have got more sympathy from the public but they aren't striking about jobs cuts. . I noticed you pretty much ignored the valid point I put to you regarding comprimise on pensions might save jobs in the long term.

no you said they werent losing their jobs...dont be a liar now.

thepointis wrote:

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:

thepointis wrote:

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:

thepointis wrote: They are are not losing their job's ? over 400,000 jobs are to go and the work those 400,00 did will have to be done by those remaining.

The point of these strikes is they are about terms of pensions, not about loss of jobs, have you got that yet? . Looking at the bigger picture, maybe if they were more accepting of the situation and came to a comprimise on pensions, then maybe there would be enough money to keep people employed. If the unions won't budge then jobs will have to be lost. You can't have it both ways and keep pensions the same whilst keeping the same number of employees.

You just said they werent losing there jobs ? now they are but it not about that ? this is about making a stand.

I said the strike action is not about losing jobs it's about protecting pensions. If they were striking about jobs cuts they may have got more sympathy from the public but they aren't striking about jobs cuts. . I noticed you pretty much ignored the valid point I put to you regarding comprimise on pensions might save jobs in the long term.

no you said they werent losing their jobs...dont be a liar now.

TirNaNog wrote:
Ooh, look another 'convenient' I've got a business colleague/family friend' story.
Is that sheep I smell.. no wait is it goat.. no it's bull!
I see Gideons 5 year plan to remove 'the deficit' is now a 'rolling' 5 year plan!! That means he'll never have to deliver - not that I thought they ever would. I think he's being optimistic if he thinks he's going to get another go.

AMDRAM wrote:
Rubbish - all my friends are teachers and they have all stayed in bed! Half the people I know who are on strike are actually having a day out, not supporting the picket lines or the marches!

Farsley Bantam wrote:

thepointis wrote:

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:

thepointis wrote:

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:

thepointis wrote: They are are not losing their job's ? over 400,000 jobs are to go and the work those 400,00 did will have to be done by those remaining.

The point of these strikes is they are about terms of pensions, not about loss of jobs, have you got that yet? . Looking at the bigger picture, maybe if they were more accepting of the situation and came to a comprimise on pensions, then maybe there would be enough money to keep people employed. If the unions won't budge then jobs will have to be lost. You can't have it both ways and keep pensions the same whilst keeping the same number of employees.

You just said they werent losing there jobs ? now they are but it not about that ? this is about making a stand.

I said the strike action is not about losing jobs it's about protecting pensions. If they were striking about jobs cuts they may have got more sympathy from the public but they aren't striking about jobs cuts. . I noticed you pretty much ignored the valid point I put to you regarding comprimise on pensions might save jobs in the long term.

no you said they werent losing their jobs...dont be a liar now.

You simpleton. He is not lying at all. If you read what is being said he is saying that the strikes today are about pension cuts and not job cuts. He has aknowledged that there will be job cuts. Your just ignoring the facts and talking like your some kind of martyr.

thepointis wrote:

AMDRAM wrote: Rubbish - all my friends are teachers and they have all stayed in bed! Half the people I know who are on strike are actually having a day out, not supporting the picket lines or the marches!

All your freinds are teachers ? how many ? name them ....im betting you cant.

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
Thepointis, if all your going to go on about is bankers and MP then please don't bother.
.
There are millions of people in the private sector who are facing losing their jobs as companies try to stay afloat. Look at the redundancies at Gratton, how Thomas Cook nearly went under, TJ Hughes, look at the empty shops in the City center, think of all the small businesses that have disappeared without a trace.
.
The people striking today aren't even losing their jobs so expecting public sympathy when many don't even know if they are going to be in employment in the new year shows you how out of touch these unions are.

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
Thepointis, if all your going to go on about is bankers and MP then please don't bother.
.
There are millions of people in the private sector who are facing losing their jobs as companies try to stay afloat. Look at the redundancies at Gratton, how Thomas Cook nearly went under, TJ Hughes, look at the empty shops in the City center, think of all the small businesses that have disappeared without a trace.
.
The people striking today aren't even losing their jobs so expecting public sympathy when many don't even know if they are going to be in employment in the new year shows you how out of touch these unions are.

NOTSOCOMMENSENSE wrote:

thepointis wrote:

NOTSOCOMMENSENSE wrote: Teachers should only get 75% of a pension anyway,most have stopped marking/working at home only work 7 hour days less lunch and have more holidays than mps (@ 12 weeks = 3 months) + some think they have to take the sick days they are allowed and still take an extra weeks worth of days not teaching in training days why can this not be done in scool holiday time. So when your feeling sympathy for these people if your not an mp/teacher think how it compares to your life

so your off school today .

Looks like you stopped at home in the warm instead of joining your comrades on the picket line,
ps are the binmen working todaydoes anybody know?

BILLTILL wrote:
These people are mostly wasters. I worked for the council for number of years before leaving for work in the private sector ,I left to get away from the mind numbing routine and total lack of management ability . The management sit on their a-rses for years just waiting to be offered early retirement and a large golden handshake and then they are off. They stifle all other peoples ability to get on or dismiss ideas to improve things by staff members.
I have done very well thank you in the private sector where these numpties would not last 5 minutes.
Reduce their rediculous pensions and make them all work until 68 before they see a penny of it.

thepointis wrote:

Thee Voice of Reason wrote: Thepointis, if all your going to go on about is bankers and MP then please don't bother. . There are millions of people in the private sector who are facing losing their jobs as companies try to stay afloat. Look at the redundancies at Gratton, how Thomas Cook nearly went under, TJ Hughes, look at the empty shops in the City center, think of all the small businesses that have disappeared without a trace. . The people striking today aren't even losing their jobs so expecting public sympathy when many don't even know if they are going to be in employment in the new year shows you how out of touch these unions are.

There is it in black and white. ( The people striking today aren't even losing their jobs so expecting public sympathy when many don't even know if they are going to be in employment in the new year shows you how out of touch these unions are.)

thepointis wrote:
Make no mistake the pensions issue is the straw that broke the camels back and the next step will be further staff reductions....rememb er this is just the beggining of the process...as I said earlier this is a line in the sand.

thepointis wrote:
Make no mistake the pensions issue is the straw that broke the camels back and the next step will be further staff reductions....rememb er this is just the beggining of the process...as I said earlier this is a line in the sand.

Andy2010 wrote:

thepointis wrote:

AMDRAM wrote: Rubbish - all my friends are teachers and they have all stayed in bed! Half the people I know who are on strike are actually having a day out, not supporting the picket lines or the marches!

All your freinds are teachers ? how many ? name them ....im betting you cant.

Well cant speak for AMDRAM's friend but my brother a teacher at a Bradford primary is currently enjoying himself at the Trafford Centre

thepointis wrote:
Make no mistake the pensions issue is the straw that broke the camels back and the next step will be further staff reductions....rememb

er this is just the beggining of the process...as I said earlier this is a line in the sand.

thepointis wrote:
so you want no public services ?

Hulagu wrote:
We want public services, but at a reasonable cost.

noblee wrote:

Hulagu wrote:
We want public services, but at a reasonable cost.

"Striking NHS staff were manning picket lines at all seven entrances to Bradford Royal Infirmary this morning"

I drove past a little while ago and there were 7 people stood outside the main entrance, all the other entrances were deserted.

Is it me or is there not a lot of support for this strike?

Adeybull wrote:
What I want is fairness. Nothing more. Nothing less.
.
I wonder how many of the strikers have been lied to by their union?

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:

thepointis wrote: Make no mistake the pensions issue is the straw that broke the camels back and the next step will be further staff reductions....rememb er this is just the beggining of the process...as I said earlier this is a line in the sand.

So lets put it this way. . If the government could save 100,000 public sector jobs by renegotiation pensions. Would that not be a price worth paying or would you prefer the status quo to exist on pensions and 100,000 people find themselve out of work? . Serious question. . As it happens this is similar to what alot of private sector workers have had to do, ie work less days, end up with less money in order to ensure the business they work for still exisits. . I'd be interested to hear your own personal thoughts on this and not some union written excuse of why these people should be a special case.

thepointis wrote:

noblee wrote:

Hulagu wrote: We want public services, but at a reasonable cost.

"Striking NHS staff were manning picket lines at all seven entrances to Bradford Royal Infirmary this morning" I drove past a little while ago and there were 7 people stood outside the main entrance, all the other entrances were deserted. Is it me or is there not a lot of support for this strike?

they picket then join the mass protest in the city centre.

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:

thepointis wrote: Make no mistake the pensions issue is the straw that broke the camels back and the next step will be further staff reductions....rememb er this is just the beggining of the process...as I said earlier this is a line in the sand.

So lets put it this way. . If the government could save 100,000 public sector jobs by renegotiation pensions. Would that not be a price worth paying or would you prefer the status quo to exist on pensions and 100,000 people find themselve out of work? . Serious question. . As it happens this is similar to what alot of private sector workers have had to do, ie work less days, end up with less money in order to ensure the business they work for still exisits. . I'd be interested to hear your own personal thoughts on this and not some union written excuse of why these people should be a special case.

Thepointis, . This too difficult to answer?

thepointis wrote:

BILLTILL wrote: These people are mostly wasters. I worked for the council for number of years before leaving for work in the private sector ,I left to get away from the mind numbing routine and total lack of management ability . The management sit on their a-rses for years just waiting to be offered early retirement and a large golden handshake and then they are off. They stifle all other peoples ability to get on or dismiss ideas to improve things by staff members. I have done very well thank you in the private sector where these numpties would not last 5 minutes. Reduce their rediculous pensions and make them all work until 68 before they see a penny of it.

I agree with you ...about a lot of the managers...but a lot of the workers cannot afford to do what you did....are you saying you used to be one of these timewasters ?

thepointis wrote:

TirNaNog wrote: Ooh, look another 'convenient' I've got a business colleague/family friend' story. Is that sheep I smell.. no wait is it goat.. no it's bull! I see Gideons 5 year plan to remove 'the deficit' is now a 'rolling' 5 year plan!! That means he'll never have to deliver - not that I thought they ever would. I think he's being optimistic if he thinks he's going to get another go.

well said .

NOTSOCOMMENSENSE wrote:

thepointis wrote:

NOTSOCOMMENSENSE wrote: Teachers should only get 75% of a pension anyway,most have stopped marking/working at home only work 7 hour days less lunch and have more holidays than mps (@ 12 weeks = 3 months) + some think they have to take the sick days they are allowed and still take an extra weeks worth of days not teaching in training days why can this not be done in scool holiday time. So when your feeling sympathy for these people if your not an mp/teacher think how it compares to your life

so your off school today .

Looks like you stopped at home in the warm instead of joining your comrades on the picket line,
ps are the binmen working todaydoes anybody know?

thepointis wrote:
Andy..I was a nurse for over twenty years...I was assaulted many times during my career but never stopped providing care to patients ...I no longer have a wage and live day to day ...

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:

bradfordian wrote: I fully support the strikers. This government have cut more public sector jobs than any other job, fact.. When you have lost your services you wi have no right to compain. You cannot have it both ways.

What kind of stupid comment is that. . "This government have cut more public sector jobs than any other job" . The government as the employer can only cut public sector jobs, it can't walk into the private sector and start sacking those people can it? . Anyhow the strikes are not about the cutting of jobs, it the people with jobs who are striking because they are being asked to change to terms which are more affordable to the country as a whole. It's not about cutting jobs.

Up with the partridge wrote:
We should congratulate these morons for saving the public purse a day's pay - well done. Just to remind them:
1) Nobody over 50 is affected
2) No low paid workers are affected.
3) Nurses, radiographers, physios etc are in all cases not earning less than £25k per year and in many cases earning over £50k - get real and contribute a realistic amount to your pension folks!

flashdonut wrote:

thepointis wrote:
All that you pay the public servants pay they pay tax too ...they pay for their own pensions .
Lets sack the person who works next to YOU and you can do his work...then we will increase what you have to pay for your pension and make it so you have to work an extra 5 or 6 years...and as a bonus when you get your pension it will be worth 25 percent less....yaaay .
Oh wait a minute in the mean time we are going to give you 90 days notice then sack you and rehire you but on less money .
What do you expect them to do sit there and take it ? if so go and buy a pair of extra long slippers and a red nose i have the perfect job for you.

Errr. The recession forced my company to make redundancies. So I do have to do other peoples work. I have not had a pay rise in 4 years. We were also asked to take a 20% pay reduction every 3rd month to avoid more redundancies (this lasted for 14months) So I am worse off. A lot of of the Public Sector got a pay rise - even though there was a pay freeze. Because you moved up the scale in your payment band. I know this, because my sister is a teacher.
.
I took it. Because that is how the world is at the moment. Sure I want 3% pay increase every year, and I don't want to have to work 9 and a half hour days and Saturday mornings when I am contracted to a 39 hour week.
.
But when my alarm goes off, i wake up in 2011, in England. Not in a Fairy Tale or some make believe land.
The country (and the rst of the world more or less) is crocked. Admit it, except it, move on.

Oldwestbowling wrote:

flashdonut wrote:

thepointis wrote:
All that you pay the public servants pay they pay tax too ...they pay for their own pensions .
Lets sack the person who works next to YOU and you can do his work...then we will increase what you have to pay for your pension and make it so you have to work an extra 5 or 6 years...and as a bonus when you get your pension it will be worth 25 percent less....yaaay .
Oh wait a minute in the mean time we are going to give you 90 days notice then sack you and rehire you but on less money .
What do you expect them to do sit there and take it ? if so go and buy a pair of extra long slippers and a red nose i have the perfect job for you.

Errr. The recession forced my company to make redundancies. So I do have to do other peoples work. I have not had a pay rise in 4 years. We were also asked to take a 20% pay reduction every 3rd month to avoid more redundancies (this lasted for 14months) So I am worse off. A lot of of the Public Sector got a pay rise - even though there was a pay freeze. Because you moved up the scale in your payment band. I know this, because my sister is a teacher.
.
I took it. Because that is how the world is at the moment. Sure I want 3% pay increase every year, and I don't want to have to work 9 and a half hour days and Saturday mornings when I am contracted to a 39 hour week.
.
But when my alarm goes off, i wake up in 2011, in England. Not in a Fairy Tale or some make believe land.
The country (and the rst of the world more or less) is crocked. Admit it, except it, move on.

Are you seriously telling us that you are working for 80% less pay?

jimandy22 wrote:

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:

bradfordian wrote: I fully support the strikers. This government have cut more public sector jobs than any other job, fact.. When you have lost your services you wi have no right to compain. You cannot have it both ways.

What kind of stupid comment is that. . "This government have cut more public sector jobs than any other job" . The government as the employer can only cut public sector jobs, it can't walk into the private sector and start sacking those people can it? . Anyhow the strikes are not about the cutting of jobs, it the people with jobs who are striking because they are being asked to change to terms which are more affordable to the country as a whole. It's not about cutting jobs.

your a joke, the government can't walk into the private sector and start sacking... no but it DID walk into the private sector (banks) and start pouring billions££ of public money into them when they failed for sh1tting about all day with other people's money.

Did the bankers lose their jobs? no they got a nice MASSIVE bonus this year, courtsey of us, public sector workers and other honest tax payers.

Did we public sector employees get MASSIVE bonuses. No, not even small, not even a cost of living rise, not even a years relief having gone through a huge restructure from another Christmas timed threat of redundancy letter, for the second year in a row.

What would you do I ask if as a worker for the council took a sh1t load of it down to ladbrokes and slammed it all on the nose of a crippled donkey!!!??? would I get sacked would i never be allowed to get anywhere near doing that again. no. but what of those lovely little bankers? they get to do it again, only this time with yours and my hard earned taxes.

Now i don't really go in for strikes and I'm working today, but its not just about pensions, it IS about the job cuts too becasue all of these are the counter-balance to pumping an absolutely meteroic amount of money into the irresponsible, profit seeking, cash driven private banks.

Too big to let them fail my 4rse! your local authorities, schools and hospitals are the ones that should be considered too 'big' (important) to fail, becasue I assure you, you'd be moaning if they weren't here.

So maybe your right they can't go sacking in the private sector, but they've gone doing it in the public sector, and attacked our pensions as a result of the decision to give the t0ssers in Lloyds, Barclays, RBS etc more punting money.

jimandy22 wrote:

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:

bradfordian wrote: I fully support the strikers. This government have cut more public sector jobs than any other job, fact.. When you have lost your services you wi have no right to compain. You cannot have it both ways.

What kind of stupid comment is that. . "This government have cut more public sector jobs than any other job" . The government as the employer can only cut public sector jobs, it can't walk into the private sector and start sacking those people can it? . Anyhow the strikes are not about the cutting of jobs, it the people with jobs who are striking because they are being asked to change to terms which are more affordable to the country as a whole. It's not about cutting jobs.

your a joke, the government can't walk into the private sector and start sacking... no but it DID walk into the private sector (banks) and start pouring billions££ of public money into them when they failed for sh1tting about all day with other people's money. Did the bankers lose their jobs? no they got a nice MASSIVE bonus this year, courtsey of us, public sector workers and other honest tax payers. Did we public sector employees get MASSIVE bonuses. No, not even small, not even a cost of living rise, not even a years relief having gone through a huge restructure from another Christmas timed threat of redundancy letter, for the second year in a row. What would you do I ask if as a worker for the council took a sh1t load of it down to ladbrokes and slammed it all on the nose of a crippled donkey!!!??? would I get sacked would i never be allowed to get anywhere near doing that again. no. but what of those lovely little bankers? they get to do it again, only this time with yours and my hard earned taxes. Now i don't really go in for strikes and I'm working today, but its not just about pensions, it IS about the job cuts too becasue all of these are the counter-balance to pumping an absolutely meteroic amount of money into the irresponsible, profit seeking, cash driven private banks. Too big to let them fail my 4rse! your local authorities, schools and hospitals are the ones that should be considered too 'big' (important) to fail, becasue I assure you, you'd be moaning if they weren't here. So maybe your right they can't go sacking in the private sector, but they've gone doing it in the public sector, and attacked our pensions as a result of the decision to give the t0ssers in Lloyds, Barclays, RBS etc more punting money.

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:

jimandy22 wrote:

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:

bradfordian wrote: I fully support the strikers. This government have cut more public sector jobs than any other job, fact.. When you have lost your services you wi have no right to compain. You cannot have it both ways.

What kind of stupid comment is that. . "This government have cut more public sector jobs than any other job" . The government as the employer can only cut public sector jobs, it can't walk into the private sector and start sacking those people can it? . Anyhow the strikes are not about the cutting of jobs, it the people with jobs who are striking because they are being asked to change to terms which are more affordable to the country as a whole. It's not about cutting jobs.

your a joke, the government can't walk into the private sector and start sacking... no but it DID walk into the private sector (banks) and start pouring billions££ of public money into them when they failed for sh1tting about all day with other people's money. Did the bankers lose their jobs? no they got a nice MASSIVE bonus this year, courtsey of us, public sector workers and other honest tax payers. Did we public sector employees get MASSIVE bonuses. No, not even small, not even a cost of living rise, not even a years relief having gone through a huge restructure from another Christmas timed threat of redundancy letter, for the second year in a row. What would you do I ask if as a worker for the council took a sh1t load of it down to ladbrokes and slammed it all on the nose of a crippled donkey!!!??? would I get sacked would i never be allowed to get anywhere near doing that again. no. but what of those lovely little bankers? they get to do it again, only this time with yours and my hard earned taxes. Now i don't really go in for strikes and I'm working today, but its not just about pensions, it IS about the job cuts too becasue all of these are the counter-balance to pumping an absolutely meteroic amount of money into the irresponsible, profit seeking, cash driven private banks. Too big to let them fail my 4rse! your local authorities, schools and hospitals are the ones that should be considered too 'big' (important) to fail, becasue I assure you, you'd be moaning if they weren't here. So maybe your right they can't go sacking in the private sector, but they've gone doing it in the public sector, and attacked our pensions as a result of the decision to give the t0ssers in Lloyds, Barclays, RBS etc more punting money.

Thats was the Labour government who did that, the people in power now didn't make the desisions on the bank and they have to clear up the mess the other left. . Hundreds of thousands of private sector jobs went over night. Gratton is just up the road, they all suffered but they suffered 2 years ago so don't think your a special case. . Would you prefer to have your pension stay as it is, or would you accept a change in pension to enable more people to be kept in work? . It may come as a shock but not everyone in the private sector is a banker and not everyone in the private sector has been getting massive bonuses or pay rises. Infact many have had it worse than those who were on strike today.

Adeybull wrote:
Have you noticed that the ONLY private sector people those who seek to justify the strikes can ever point to are the bankers and the MPs? And I bet they do not even realise that it is only a small proportion of bank employees they are talking about anyway. I bet "ordinary" bank staff are sick and tired of being made to feel pariahs because of the disgraceful behaviour of the few?
.
So, just so we get this right: the scandalous conduct of a very few thousand people justifies them inflicting pain and hardship on the tens of millions who are not employed in the public sector? is that right? It justifies THEM seeking to do, on a smaller scale, precisely what they accuse those scumbags of doing? Which is stealing a bigger share of the cake to the detriment of the large majority? Is that right?
.
Come on you apologists for the strikers - IS IT????
.
I saw some guy being quoted on the Sky news website earlier:
.
"Refuse supervisor Phil Lane from Sefton will be marching and said: "Me and my colleagues are firm. Make no mistake, this day is needed to make the Government change its mind."
.
Having worked for the council for 36 years, Mr Lane planned to retire in three years' time aged 62 .
.
Under the changes, he said he will need to work for four more years and put more money in the pot."
.
Can anyone spot what is wrong with this? the existing entitlements are ring-fenced. No changes. The changes are not anyway likely to impact until (it looks like) April 2013. Oh, and HMG has already said that no-one within ten years of retirement will be any worse off anyway. So where does he get the four more years (to 66...) from?
.
I submit this gentleman is either lying or, as seems more likely, very badly misled.
.
as, I believe, are a very considerable number of his fellow strikers. Certainly, every single person in the public sector to whom i have spoken about their pensions had indeed been misled. By their union. I hope they enjoy being cannon-fodder for the Earl Haigs running their unions? Maybe when they realise, there may be a day of reckoning?
.
btw, my wife is due to retire from the NHS in 2016 - so this is a subject I have done some research into!

Hulagu wrote:
Who took public borrowing to record levels - Labour
Who raided pension funds to finance borrowing - Labour
Who bailed out the banks - Labour
Who encouraged banks to undertake the reckless lending - Labour

Who's fault is it the country has run out of money.....
Altogether now ..... THE TORIES

Adeybull wrote:
SEBTP - well we Bulls fans wrote the book about several years of misery, hardship and making ends meet, eh!! Does your moniker on here suggest you are a Genesis fan too?
.
While I am here - I was just checking back to see how much support the unions - any unions - gave to those of us whose personal pensions Gordon Brown raided in 1997, and for every year thereafter? Can anyone help me, because I am struggling to find any links?

eebygum wrote:
You won't pay any less tax by the government cutting the public sector pensions or sacking public sector staff. They have cut jobs for years and have you had a rates or tax reduction? No we pay more and get less. The MP's have a pension fund paid for by us and they can retire when they want. So why cut public sector workers pension and not their own? We should be reducing the pension age and get more of the younger generation in work the cost of that will be negliable and stop young kids getting into the workless trap. What these public sector workers get in pay or fringe bebefits is nothing to do with us tax payers this was all negotiated by the government. If they can pay it is because someone somewhere has made an error. Why should they be expected to forfeit something that is now expected as their pension?
David Cameron and his co-horts have already moved to bring back the free for all Ministers expenses fiasco. So we should be more concerned about the cost of that to the tax payers.

Cityman23 wrote:
The millionaires in the Con-Dem coalition government have decided that the deficit (caused by their rich banking friends) should be paid for out of the pockets of ordinary people.

This government has brought in policies never put to the electorate at the election just one/half years ago. eg privatising the NHS/cutting public services/attacking pensions/creating massive youth unemployment!!

Well done to the strikers who decided to 'make a stand' today!!

The Tories like to divide/rule and they want to split private workers from public workers by playing the 'jealousy card.' All workers deserve decent pensions!!

Why doesn't the Tory/Lib-Dem govt:

a) Scrap Trident nuclear missile renewal : cost £100 billion?

b) Scrap lots of money being spent on Royal Jubilee celebrations in 2012?

c) Place a 'Robin Hood' tax on banking financial transactions (of 0.02% per transaction) which could bring in £billions?)

d) Demand Vodaphone pay its unpaid tax bill (and othjers do so too?!!)

e) Close down loopholes allowing tax avoidance/tax evasion?

The 'austerity' measures of Cameron/Osbourne/Cle

gg have been a disaster. No growth-millions out of work-cost of living rising-incomes reduced and...a double-dip recession STILL on the horizon!

Adeybull wrote:
SEBTP - well we Bulls fans wrote the book about several years of misery, hardship and making ends meet, eh!! Does your moniker on here suggest you are a Genesis fan too?
.
While I am here - I was just checking back to see how much support the unions - any unions - gave to those of us whose personal pensions Gordon Brown raided in 1997, and for every year thereafter? Can anyone help me, because I am struggling to find any links?

Adeybull wrote:
What I want is fairness. Nothing more. Nothing less.
.
I wonder how many of the strikers have been lied to by their union?

SellingEnglandByTheP
ound wrote:

Adeybull wrote:
SEBTP - well we Bulls fans wrote the book about several years of misery, hardship and making ends meet, eh!! Does your moniker on here suggest you are a Genesis fan too?
.
While I am here - I was just checking back to see how much support the unions - any unions - gave to those of us whose personal pensions Gordon Brown raided in 1997, and for every year thereafter? Can anyone help me, because I am struggling to find any links?

Wrote the book and built the library to put it in I think! We'll be back at the helm soon, if only to get shut of the Whino's smugness! And as for the Genesis connection, was listening to the album, (vinyl no less!), when I started this account and the title fit nicely. Huge Genesis fan, well, up until 75 when Gabriel left then they just turned "POP"! Read your posts with great interest, unlike most who post on here you have a brain!

AMDRAM wrote:
Rubbish - all my friends are teachers and they have all stayed in bed! Half the people I know who are on strike are actually having a day out, not supporting the picket lines or the marches!

angry bradfordian wrote:

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:

thepointis wrote:

angry bradfordian wrote: The economy is too complicated a system to blame purely on the 'bankers', especially if you are suggesting that it's all down to UK bankers to suddenly prop up the entire British public sector pension system. There are many causes of the currently problems. Some of it is down to the US Sub-prime issues, some of it is down to the 'one size fits all' Euro. Some of it is down to our banks giving mortgages to people who couldn't afford it. This means that you, me & anybody else who irresponsibly borrowed money beyond their means is also responsible. And whilst all this was going on, our government carried on spending money we didn't have and ignored what the bankers were doing. All this is probably why Labour are being more than a tad sheepish about the strike action and all the politicians of all sides are a bunch of hypocrites as long as they blame each other for this mess.

No its not...And all the causes have come about because of Uk , risky high reward European and American financial practices. Whatever way you look at this mess it primary cause was greedy bankers .

What about the fact the Labour government during boom years was still borrowing money, and that they left the country paying more money in interest repayments than we spend on the defense budget.
.
Also what about the fact pensions cost more because people are living alot longer.
.
There is a whole host of reasons and you it seems have been brainwashed into thinking it's just down to bankers and no one else.
.
Mr Brown wasn't complaining at all the tax money the bankers were bringing in whilst he was in the treasury.

The hypocrisy of the Labour party would amaze me if I didn't know that all politicians are a bunch of cheats & liars.
For years, Labour said the economy was good because of their prudence (whilst the world economy was going well)
Then when the UK economy went downhill it was all because of 'world economy issues'
Now they're saying that the recession's all down to Tory policies.

Andy2010 wrote:
A family friend of mine heard last week that her chemo treatment was cancelled today because of the strikes.....this just goes to show how everyone in the public sector couldnt give a flying **** about their jobs from teachers to nurses etc etc ....they are all in it for themselves

Vegan Justice wrote:

AMDRAM wrote:
Rubbish - all my friends are teachers and they have all stayed in bed! Half the people I know who are on strike are actually having a day out, not supporting the picket lines or the marches!

Then they are lending their support by the very fact of staying away from work. Duh!

Old Peculiar wrote:
If you think that striking will get you support from the general public, you are very very much mistaken.
Get back to work, you pathetic, bone idle, any excuse for a day off, whinging wasters.
The sooner you wake up, and realise that eveything isn't rosy in our green and pleasant financial garden, the better for us all ; especially our children, who are having ANOTHER day of NO EDUCATION at your expense.

Old Peculiar wrote:
If you think that striking will get you support from the general public, you are very very much mistaken.
Get back to work, you pathetic, bone idle, any excuse for a day off, whinging wasters.
The sooner you wake up, and realise that eveything isn't rosy in our green and pleasant financial garden, the better for us all ; especially our children, who are having ANOTHER day of NO EDUCATION at your expense.

Vegan Justice wrote:

angry bradfordian wrote:

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:

thepointis wrote:

angry bradfordian wrote: The economy is too complicated a system to blame purely on the 'bankers', especially if you are suggesting that it's all down to UK bankers to suddenly prop up the entire British public sector pension system. There are many causes of the currently problems. Some of it is down to the US Sub-prime issues, some of it is down to the 'one size fits all' Euro. Some of it is down to our banks giving mortgages to people who couldn't afford it. This means that you, me & anybody else who irresponsibly borrowed money beyond their means is also responsible. And whilst all this was going on, our government carried on spending money we didn't have and ignored what the bankers were doing. All this is probably why Labour are being more than a tad sheepish about the strike action and all the politicians of all sides are a bunch of hypocrites as long as they blame each other for this mess.

No its not...And all the causes have come about because of Uk , risky high reward European and American financial practices. Whatever way you look at this mess it primary cause was greedy bankers .

What about the fact the Labour government during boom years was still borrowing money, and that they left the country paying more money in interest repayments than we spend on the defense budget.
.
Also what about the fact pensions cost more because people are living alot longer.
.
There is a whole host of reasons and you it seems have been brainwashed into thinking it's just down to bankers and no one else.
.
Mr Brown wasn't complaining at all the tax money the bankers were bringing in whilst he was in the treasury.

The hypocrisy of the Labour party would amaze me if I didn't know that all politicians are a bunch of cheats & liars.
For years, Labour said the economy was good because of their prudence (whilst the world economy was going well)
Then when the UK economy went downhill it was all because of 'world economy issues'
Now they're saying that the recession's all down to Tory policies.

No, they're saying the lack of economic recovery is all down to the Tories.

SellingEnglandByTheP
ound wrote:

Vegan Justice wrote:

AMDRAM wrote:
Rubbish - all my friends are teachers and they have all stayed in bed! Half the people I know who are on strike are actually having a day out, not supporting the picket lines or the marches!

Then they are lending their support by the very fact of staying away from work. Duh!

Ha! Sums you up worm, an armchair protester! Hows the cold, you know, that little snivel that stopped you joining your "Brother & Sisters" at the Centenery Square protests? Actually, that quite sums you up that, "A little snivel"!

angry bradfordian wrote:

Vegan Justice wrote:

angry bradfordian wrote:

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:

thepointis wrote:

angry bradfordian wrote: The economy is too complicated a system to blame purely on the 'bankers', especially if you are suggesting that it's all down to UK bankers to suddenly prop up the entire British public sector pension system. There are many causes of the currently problems. Some of it is down to the US Sub-prime issues, some of it is down to the 'one size fits all' Euro. Some of it is down to our banks giving mortgages to people who couldn't afford it. This means that you, me & anybody else who irresponsibly borrowed money beyond their means is also responsible. And whilst all this was going on, our government carried on spending money we didn't have and ignored what the bankers were doing. All this is probably why Labour are being more than a tad sheepish about the strike action and all the politicians of all sides are a bunch of hypocrites as long as they blame each other for this mess.

No its not...And all the causes have come about because of Uk , risky high reward European and American financial practices. Whatever way you look at this mess it primary cause was greedy bankers .

What about the fact the Labour government during boom years was still borrowing money, and that they left the country paying more money in interest repayments than we spend on the defense budget.
.
Also what about the fact pensions cost more because people are living alot longer.
.
There is a whole host of reasons and you it seems have been brainwashed into thinking it's just down to bankers and no one else.
.
Mr Brown wasn't complaining at all the tax money the bankers were bringing in whilst he was in the treasury.

The hypocrisy of the Labour party would amaze me if I didn't know that all politicians are a bunch of cheats & liars.
For years, Labour said the economy was good because of their prudence (whilst the world economy was going well)
Then when the UK economy went downhill it was all because of 'world economy issues'
Now they're saying that the recession's all down to Tory policies.

No, they're saying the lack of economic recovery is all down to the Tories.

That's bit like a murderer blaming the paramedic for not resuscitating his victim.

angry bradfordian wrote:

Cityman23 wrote:
The millionaires in the Con-Dem coalition government have decided that the deficit (caused by their rich banking friends) should be paid for out of the pockets of ordinary people.

This government has brought in policies never put to the electorate at the election just one/half years ago. eg privatising the NHS/cutting public services/attacking pensions/creating massive youth unemployment!!

Well done to the strikers who decided to 'make a stand' today!!

The Tories like to divide/rule and they want to split private workers from public workers by playing the 'jealousy card.' All workers deserve decent pensions!!

Why doesn't the Tory/Lib-Dem govt:

a) Scrap Trident nuclear missile renewal : cost £100 billion?

b) Scrap lots of money being spent on Royal Jubilee celebrations in 2012?

c) Place a 'Robin Hood' tax on banking financial transactions (of 0.02% per transaction) which could bring in £billions?)

d) Demand Vodaphone pay its unpaid tax bill (and othjers do so too?!!)

e) Close down loopholes allowing tax avoidance/tax evasion?

The 'austerity' measures of Cameron/Osbourne/Cle


gg have been a disaster. No growth-millions out of work-cost of living rising-incomes reduced and...a double-dip recession STILL on the horizon!

It could also be said that the unions are dividing the nation with their strike action today and are doing more to disenfranchise people who work in the private sector.
Some of these things you suggest, such as Vodafone's tax bill and Jubilee celebrations haven't changed since Labour were in charge, so why it's specifically the Tory/Lib-Dems helping out their mates, or doesn't that suit the unions view?

SellingEnglandByTheP
ound wrote:
Dont believe I was actually arguing with anyone. When it comes to childish insults, suggest you buy a mirror, if you can afford one peasant. And as for being a Tory, you are barking SO far up the wrong tree you're in a different forrest!

Vegan Justice wrote:

SellingEnglandByTheP

ound wrote:
Dont believe I was actually arguing with anyone. When it comes to childish insults, suggest you buy a mirror, if you can afford one peasant. And as for being a Tory, you are barking SO far up the wrong tree you're in a different forrest!

Gosh! someone who actually admits to being a Liberal?

RED65 wrote:
What's all this talk about living 10 years longer.....
I can smell bull sh.....

Andy2010 wrote:
A family friend of mine heard last week that her chemo treatment was cancelled today because of the strikes.....this just goes to show how everyone in the public sector couldnt give a flying **** about their jobs from teachers to nurses etc etc ....they are all in it for themselves

Uther Pendragon wrote:
Well said Dark Horse.
The public servants are not the enemy!
Look to the leaders of this country and
ask, and lets be clear about this, "how is your income,expenses,priv

ate health and your pension package Mr Cameron/Clegg etc, etc?)
And then tell me again how you feel our pain.

Yorkshire Lass wrote:
The comments on here are very interesting today. But no one has touched on the fact that when the Tories are in power it takes so much power from the Unions that they get on their high horses and use you poor workers as scape goats. After Margaret Thatcher crushed the unions in the 1980s they seem to disappear for a while. However under the last Labour rule they became rich again and in spite of you ordinary workers paying your subs every month, they get at least £500,000, from most of the Labour councils in this country. This money is yours and mine so really, you workers are paying twice for them to stay in top hotels, have great meals, great transport etc. etc. So they incite the normal worker to hopefully, bring down the Government. Hope you are all enjoying your day off, doing the Unions dirty work for them. If you have lost a day's pay today, remember that any Union member who has travelled to "support your caused" will be sat in a five star hotel tonight, free food and drinks, at your expense.

SellingEnglandByTheP
ound wrote:

Vegan Justice wrote:

SellingEnglandByTheP


ound wrote:
Dont believe I was actually arguing with anyone. When it comes to childish insults, suggest you buy a mirror, if you can afford one peasant. And as for being a Tory, you are barking SO far up the wrong tree you're in a different forrest!

Gosh! someone who actually admits to being a Liberal?

Wrong again Landless! Keep going, you might get something right one day!

SellingEnglandByTheP
ound wrote:

Vegan Justice wrote:

SellingEnglandByTheP


ound wrote:
Dont believe I was actually arguing with anyone. When it comes to childish insults, suggest you buy a mirror, if you can afford one peasant. And as for being a Tory, you are barking SO far up the wrong tree you're in a different forrest!

Gosh! someone who actually admits to being a Liberal?

Wrong again Landless! Keep going, you might get something right one day!

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
I think Thepointis will no doubt disappear as the questions become to difficult to answer and increasingly harder to avoid.
.
He'll pop back up as one of his alter egos, such as Landless Peasent, Vegan Justice, etc.
.
I notice his Vegan Justice alter ego when quiet after he stated all disabled people should just live off the state and benefits.

angry bradfordian wrote:
'I object to being taxed for working for the NHS'

I work for a private company and get taxed to pay for the NHS, Social Security, Defence, Infrastructure etc etc- that's how tax works.
Perhaps Jackie Smith would like to suggest who she expects to pay for her pension. No doubt that will be the bankers again.

Vegan Justice wrote:

SellingEnglandByTheP

ound wrote:

Vegan Justice wrote:

SellingEnglandByTheP



ound wrote:
Dont believe I was actually arguing with anyone. When it comes to childish insults, suggest you buy a mirror, if you can afford one peasant. And as for being a Tory, you are barking SO far up the wrong tree you're in a different forrest!

Gosh! someone who actually admits to being a Liberal?

Wrong again Landless! Keep going, you might get something right one day!

Then I take it you're an EDL/BNP neo-Nazi nutcase?

darkhorse (he's a) wrote:

Andy2010 wrote:
A family friend of mine heard last week that her chemo treatment was cancelled today because of the strikes.....this just goes to show how everyone in the public sector couldnt give a flying **** about their jobs from teachers to nurses etc etc ....they are all in it for themselves

The government is not asking the public sector to change the terms of their pension because it is unafforable. The money should be there, but its been raided, and emptied. Why not renationalise the utilities, why not renationalise the railways instead of continually subsidising them to the tune of billions a year. These are rightly industries that are essential to our society, that should not be allowed to be run by private organisations who's only objective is to make profit. why should my taxes be used to subsidies those in the private sector, when I receive nothing in return, why should these organisations be allowed to keep the millions/billions in profit each year when they have been funded through our taxes, the profits these organisations make would clear the debt we are seeing. They were privatised by the conservatives in the 1980s, and along with it went a vast amount of income to the country. Question who profitted from it. With teachers, nurses, fireman you are receiving a very important service that many other countries are jealous of. Maybe instead of attacking the weakest target, you should look at those who are to blame, and point the finger at them. Unless you like picking on the weakest link that is. I wonder the next time you wonder into the A&E department you'll look at the staff working their and say they've got an easy life. If it's so easy, why don't you do it.

Vegan Justice wrote:

Old Peculiar wrote: If you think that striking will get you support from the general public, you are very very much mistaken. Get back to work, you pathetic, bone idle, any excuse for a day off, whinging wasters. The sooner you wake up, and realise that eveything isn't rosy in our green and pleasant financial garden, the better for us all ; especially our children, who are having ANOTHER day of NO EDUCATION at your expense.

The Public Sector have huge sympathy from the general public, for your information. Let me remind that the Tories didn't gain power by winning an election. As for your children, they will not gain an education at all if Gove has his way, they'll be up chimneys instead.

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:

Vegan Justice wrote:

Old Peculiar wrote: If you think that striking will get you support from the general public, you are very very much mistaken. Get back to work, you pathetic, bone idle, any excuse for a day off, whinging wasters. The sooner you wake up, and realise that eveything isn't rosy in our green and pleasant financial garden, the better for us all ; especially our children, who are having ANOTHER day of NO EDUCATION at your expense.

The Public Sector have huge sympathy from the general public, for your information. Let me remind that the Tories didn't gain power by winning an election. As for your children, they will not gain an education at all if Gove has his way, they'll be up chimneys instead.

How can you comment for the private sector workers when you sit on your ar$e claiming benefits?

Vegan Justice wrote:

angry bradfordian wrote: 'I object to being taxed for working for the NHS' I work for a private company and get taxed to pay for the NHS, Social Security, Defence, Infrastructure etc etc- that's how tax works. Perhaps Jackie Smith would like to suggest who she expects to pay for her pension. No doubt that will be the bankers again.

Yes, the Bankers most certainly SHOULD pay for all our pensions.

Hulagu wrote:
Well all you mugs, it looks like your union bosses are speaking with the government again, pity you all lost a days wages!

They'll all be sat round a table enjoying a slap up meal with fine wine laughing at you all!

"and the animals turned from pig to to man and man to pig"
You know the score...

SellingEnglandByTheP
ound wrote:
Dont believe I was actually arguing with anyone. When it comes to childish insults, suggest you buy a mirror, if you can afford one peasant. And as for being a Tory, you are barking SO far up the wrong tree you're in a different forrest!