Council bosses send letters to all workers to warn them that roles are at risk of redundancy

Council leader Ian Greenwood

Council leader Ian Greenwood

First published in News by

Bradford Council has sent letters to every employee warning them that their jobs are at risk of redundancy.

The prospect of imminent job losses has become a real and scary possibility, said Unison’s branch secretary Linda Crowther.

It is now up to councillors to focus on which departments will suffer cuts – a process which unions say will be complete by Christmas.

In a statement last night, Council chief executive Tony Reeves said: “While we do not yet have the full picture, we estimate that the financial effect of the Government’s Comprehensive Spending Review on Bradford Council will amount to cuts of around £65 million in 2011-12, a further £15 million in 2012-13 and £25 million over the following two years.

“We have been taking action to secure substantial savings for some months now, to prioritise our available resources on the vital services local people need and to preserve jobs where possible. A policy of strict vacancy control has reduced the Council’s workforce by around 500 posts since December, 2009. Despite that, we may not be able to sustain the number of people we currently employ in the future and we need to look at a possible further reduction in our workforce.”

Mrs Crowther said: “What the Council has decided to do, based on the advice of the legal team, is to serve everyone with this risk notice so when the politicians decide what services ought to be kept they don’t need to enter into consultations about individual posts.”

Meetings between unions and senior Council management are scheduled in the coming weeks, she said.

She said: “The consultation process has started. It’s 90 days because this affects more than 99 people. We expect there will be some people’s contracts terminated or naturally concluded by the end of December.

“Our position is that they didn’t need to go to these lengths at this stage because it does scare people.” Ray Jones, of Unite, said: “We are appalled the Council has decided to give some many people an early Christmas present by issuing them with a threatening letter.”

He said unions made suggestions about cutting hours and sick pay which the Council had ignored. He said he believed agency staff were still employed in full time positions.

Council leader Ian Greenwood, said: “This is a very worrying time for everyone, particularly vulnerable people, who depends on public services and everyone who works in the public sector, or in the private and voluntary sectors on projects funded by public money.”

He said he remained determined that compulsory redundancies would only occur as a last resort.

He said: “The Council is looking to cut jobs through vacancy control and voluntary redundancy. We know that any compulsory redundancies would adversely affect the whole of our district’s economy, as well as being devastating for the individual employees concerned and their families.

“We will do everything we can to minimise the impact on front-line services, employment and the local economy during this time of unprecedented Government cuts in public sector funding.”

Last week Mr Reeves warned that the district is facing up to 7,500 private and public job losses as a result of Government cuts unveiled.

Ray Alderman, Bradford convenor of GMB, said: “It’s people’s livelihoods and families that are threatened by these savage budget cuts.”

Comments (42)

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7:37am Tue 23 Nov 10

thecitygent says...

News exclusive, City Hall to be converted into a carpet warehouse in the final stage of Bradford's regeneration.
News exclusive, City Hall to be converted into a carpet warehouse in the final stage of Bradford's regeneration. thecitygent
  • Score: 0

8:20am Tue 23 Nov 10

PHILISAN says...

..At least something's on a roll then !!
..At least something's on a roll then !! PHILISAN
  • Score: 0

8:36am Tue 23 Nov 10

Thee Voice of Reason says...

The harsh reality of a bloated unsustainable public sector is coming to bite us in the bum.
.
Look at the mess Ireland are in by spending way more than they were bringing in, thankfully people weren't stupid enough (although clearly many were) to vote Gordon Brown back in or we'd we heading for the same place as Ireland.
.
Wonder if any of the six figure salary earners will be losing their jobs, or are even taking a pay cut, I think we all know the answer to that though.
The harsh reality of a bloated unsustainable public sector is coming to bite us in the bum. . Look at the mess Ireland are in by spending way more than they were bringing in, thankfully people weren't stupid enough (although clearly many were) to vote Gordon Brown back in or we'd we heading for the same place as Ireland. . Wonder if any of the six figure salary earners will be losing their jobs, or are even taking a pay cut, I think we all know the answer to that though. Thee Voice of Reason
  • Score: 0

9:21am Tue 23 Nov 10

Moon on a stick says...

May I suggest immediate cuts in the regen department, if they ask why tell them to walk around the city centre preferably after 6pm.
May I suggest immediate cuts in the regen department, if they ask why tell them to walk around the city centre preferably after 6pm. Moon on a stick
  • Score: 0

9:24am Tue 23 Nov 10

Mike Strutter says...

I'm assuming that if every employee has got a letter then Tony Reeves has one too ?
I'm assuming that if every employee has got a letter then Tony Reeves has one too ? Mike Strutter
  • Score: 0

9:24am Tue 23 Nov 10

Thee Voice of Reason says...

In the wake of all these cuts, are there still plans for that £3m bridge to go ahead. Serious question.
In the wake of all these cuts, are there still plans for that £3m bridge to go ahead. Serious question. Thee Voice of Reason
  • Score: 0

9:37am Tue 23 Nov 10

Landless Peasant says...

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
The harsh reality of a bloated unsustainable public sector is coming to bite us in the bum. . Look at the mess Ireland are in by spending way more than they were bringing in, thankfully people weren't stupid enough (although clearly many were) to vote Gordon Brown back in or we'd we heading for the same place as Ireland. . Wonder if any of the six figure salary earners will be losing their jobs, or are even taking a pay cut, I think we all know the answer to that though.
I voted for Gordon Brown as he was doing a good job and he actualy saved the world's eceonomy. The savage cuts being made by the Tories are unnecessary and entirely vindictive. They are idealogicaly driven to dismantle the State and to wage war against the Working Class. It is Capitalism and the constant drive for economic growth that are unsustainable. It is NOT Labour's fault that we are in this mess, it is the fault of the Bankers, and the US stock market. There will be riots all across the country by next year.
[quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: The harsh reality of a bloated unsustainable public sector is coming to bite us in the bum. . Look at the mess Ireland are in by spending way more than they were bringing in, thankfully people weren't stupid enough (although clearly many were) to vote Gordon Brown back in or we'd we heading for the same place as Ireland. . Wonder if any of the six figure salary earners will be losing their jobs, or are even taking a pay cut, I think we all know the answer to that though.[/p][/quote]I voted for Gordon Brown as he was doing a good job and he actualy saved the world's eceonomy. The savage cuts being made by the Tories are unnecessary and entirely vindictive. They are idealogicaly driven to dismantle the State and to wage war against the Working Class. It is Capitalism and the constant drive for economic growth that are unsustainable. It is NOT Labour's fault that we are in this mess, it is the fault of the Bankers, and the US stock market. There will be riots all across the country by next year. Landless Peasant
  • Score: 0

9:56am Tue 23 Nov 10

Thee Voice of Reason says...

Not sure if your a wind up merchant or just a misguided fool.
.
Spending more than we get in via tax is only down to the government of the time.
.
The money spent to bail the out the banks bought up shares to provide an asset therefore further down the line when these are sold the government will get something back. As it stands without pumping more money into the banks we were spending £170 billion more than we were taking in via tax.
.
Thats just the speed we were accruing debt, this does not take into account the debt that is there already. So thats £170 billion on top of a already existing debt.
Not sure if your a wind up merchant or just a misguided fool. . Spending more than we get in via tax is only down to the government of the time. . The money spent to bail the out the banks bought up shares to provide an asset therefore further down the line when these are sold the government will get something back. As it stands without pumping more money into the banks we were spending £170 billion more than we were taking in via tax. . Thats just the speed we were accruing debt, this does not take into account the debt that is there already. So thats £170 billion on top of a already existing debt. Thee Voice of Reason
  • Score: 0

10:06am Tue 23 Nov 10

Russell Crowe says...

I think we could all do with getting rid of this fat slug of a man Greenwood. And a few others. What the hell does he bring to Bradford.
.
All the fat cats should be taking a paycut instead of being sat in City Hall.
.
Turn the heating down 2 degrees in every council building as well.
.
Stop this waste of money park that is being built outside city hall. There was nothing wrong with how it was & is.
.
Stop spending money on agency staff. Lay all them off 1st then hire people on council wages. To pay the employee £7 an hour the agency will be charging something like £12 an hour.
I think we could all do with getting rid of this fat slug of a man Greenwood. And a few others. What the hell does he bring to Bradford. . All the fat cats should be taking a paycut instead of being sat in City Hall. . Turn the heating down 2 degrees in every council building as well. . Stop this waste of money park that is being built outside city hall. There was nothing wrong with how it was & is. . Stop spending money on agency staff. Lay all them off 1st then hire people on council wages. To pay the employee £7 an hour the agency will be charging something like £12 an hour. Russell Crowe
  • Score: 0

11:11am Tue 23 Nov 10

Moon on a stick says...

I bet you agency staff are more flexible, take less sick leave, have no pensions and don't strike.
.
The council doesn't need more easy life permanent staff it needs to outsource and allow the private sector to deliver more efficient services.
I bet you agency staff are more flexible, take less sick leave, have no pensions and don't strike. . The council doesn't need more easy life permanent staff it needs to outsource and allow the private sector to deliver more efficient services. Moon on a stick
  • Score: 0

11:12am Tue 23 Nov 10

Thee Voice of Reason says...

We appear to have the T&A's method of burying bad news going on at the moment. This story is fast falling off the front page of the website despite it's huge importance and effect on the people of Bradford.
We appear to have the T&A's method of burying bad news going on at the moment. This story is fast falling off the front page of the website despite it's huge importance and effect on the people of Bradford. Thee Voice of Reason
  • Score: 0

11:16am Tue 23 Nov 10

thecitygent says...

Landless Peasant wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote: The harsh reality of a bloated unsustainable public sector is coming to bite us in the bum. . Look at the mess Ireland are in by spending way more than they were bringing in, thankfully people weren't stupid enough (although clearly many were) to vote Gordon Brown back in or we'd we heading for the same place as Ireland. . Wonder if any of the six figure salary earners will be losing their jobs, or are even taking a pay cut, I think we all know the answer to that though.
I voted for Gordon Brown as he was doing a good job and he actualy saved the world's eceonomy. The savage cuts being made by the Tories are unnecessary and entirely vindictive. They are idealogicaly driven to dismantle the State and to wage war against the Working Class. It is Capitalism and the constant drive for economic growth that are unsustainable. It is NOT Labour's fault that we are in this mess, it is the fault of the Bankers, and the US stock market. There will be riots all across the country by next year.
Gordon was pretty fond of the banks as they helped him to fund the bloated public sector. What good will riots do? And anyway what is the British working class? This isn't the 50s.
[quote][p][bold]Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: The harsh reality of a bloated unsustainable public sector is coming to bite us in the bum. . Look at the mess Ireland are in by spending way more than they were bringing in, thankfully people weren't stupid enough (although clearly many were) to vote Gordon Brown back in or we'd we heading for the same place as Ireland. . Wonder if any of the six figure salary earners will be losing their jobs, or are even taking a pay cut, I think we all know the answer to that though.[/p][/quote]I voted for Gordon Brown as he was doing a good job and he actualy saved the world's eceonomy. The savage cuts being made by the Tories are unnecessary and entirely vindictive. They are idealogicaly driven to dismantle the State and to wage war against the Working Class. It is Capitalism and the constant drive for economic growth that are unsustainable. It is NOT Labour's fault that we are in this mess, it is the fault of the Bankers, and the US stock market. There will be riots all across the country by next year.[/p][/quote]Gordon was pretty fond of the banks as they helped him to fund the bloated public sector. What good will riots do? And anyway what is the British working class? This isn't the 50s. thecitygent
  • Score: 0

11:18am Tue 23 Nov 10

Thee Voice of Reason says...

Moon on a stick wrote:
I bet you agency staff are more flexible, take less sick leave, have no pensions and don't strike. . The council doesn't need more easy life permanent staff it needs to outsource and allow the private sector to deliver more efficient services.
The problem is it has both. We have the easy life permanent staff who are off sick so often that agency staff have to be brought in. So tax payers are paying two people to do the same job.
.
If there are 20,000 employees taking on average 11 days sick and we average a 5 day week, thats the equivalent to having 846 staff off every working day of the year. Thats 846 agency staff probably brought in at a higher charge rate.
[quote][p][bold]Moon on a stick[/bold] wrote: I bet you agency staff are more flexible, take less sick leave, have no pensions and don't strike. . The council doesn't need more easy life permanent staff it needs to outsource and allow the private sector to deliver more efficient services.[/p][/quote]The problem is it has both. We have the easy life permanent staff who are off sick so often that agency staff have to be brought in. So tax payers are paying two people to do the same job. . If there are 20,000 employees taking on average 11 days sick and we average a 5 day week, thats the equivalent to having 846 staff off every working day of the year. Thats 846 agency staff probably brought in at a higher charge rate. Thee Voice of Reason
  • Score: 0

11:52am Tue 23 Nov 10

Avro says...

When is Reeves going to have his 200k cut, or better still be given the boot??
When is Reeves going to have his 200k cut, or better still be given the boot?? Avro
  • Score: 0

12:10pm Tue 23 Nov 10

Landless Peasant says...

thecitygent wrote:
Landless Peasant wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote: The harsh reality of a bloated unsustainable public sector is coming to bite us in the bum. . Look at the mess Ireland are in by spending way more than they were bringing in, thankfully people weren't stupid enough (although clearly many were) to vote Gordon Brown back in or we'd we heading for the same place as Ireland. . Wonder if any of the six figure salary earners will be losing their jobs, or are even taking a pay cut, I think we all know the answer to that though.
I voted for Gordon Brown as he was doing a good job and he actualy saved the world's eceonomy. The savage cuts being made by the Tories are unnecessary and entirely vindictive. They are idealogicaly driven to dismantle the State and to wage war against the Working Class. It is Capitalism and the constant drive for economic growth that are unsustainable. It is NOT Labour's fault that we are in this mess, it is the fault of the Bankers, and the US stock market. There will be riots all across the country by next year.
Gordon was pretty fond of the banks as they helped him to fund the bloated public sector. What good will riots do? And anyway what is the British working class? This isn't the 50s.
What is the British working class??!! *ROLLS EYES* Don't be fooled into thinking the Class War is over. We are still here, we still exist, and we are tired of being shat on by the rich. If you have a job, and you have to work for a living, then you are working class. Riots will send a shock wave through the ruling elite, like when the students stormed the Tory HQ last week, which was good to see. We should all rebel like our French and Greek comrades rather than just sit there and take it.
[quote][p][bold]thecitygent[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: The harsh reality of a bloated unsustainable public sector is coming to bite us in the bum. . Look at the mess Ireland are in by spending way more than they were bringing in, thankfully people weren't stupid enough (although clearly many were) to vote Gordon Brown back in or we'd we heading for the same place as Ireland. . Wonder if any of the six figure salary earners will be losing their jobs, or are even taking a pay cut, I think we all know the answer to that though.[/p][/quote]I voted for Gordon Brown as he was doing a good job and he actualy saved the world's eceonomy. The savage cuts being made by the Tories are unnecessary and entirely vindictive. They are idealogicaly driven to dismantle the State and to wage war against the Working Class. It is Capitalism and the constant drive for economic growth that are unsustainable. It is NOT Labour's fault that we are in this mess, it is the fault of the Bankers, and the US stock market. There will be riots all across the country by next year.[/p][/quote]Gordon was pretty fond of the banks as they helped him to fund the bloated public sector. What good will riots do? And anyway what is the British working class? This isn't the 50s.[/p][/quote]What is the British working class??!! *ROLLS EYES* Don't be fooled into thinking the Class War is over. We are still here, we still exist, and we are tired of being shat on by the rich. If you have a job, and you have to work for a living, then you are working class. Riots will send a shock wave through the ruling elite, like when the students stormed the Tory HQ last week, which was good to see. We should all rebel like our French and Greek comrades rather than just sit there and take it. Landless Peasant
  • Score: 0

12:19pm Tue 23 Nov 10

Thee Voice of Reason says...

Landless Peasant wrote:
thecitygent wrote:
Landless Peasant wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote: The harsh reality of a bloated unsustainable public sector is coming to bite us in the bum. . Look at the mess Ireland are in by spending way more than they were bringing in, thankfully people weren't stupid enough (although clearly many were) to vote Gordon Brown back in or we'd we heading for the same place as Ireland. . Wonder if any of the six figure salary earners will be losing their jobs, or are even taking a pay cut, I think we all know the answer to that though.
I voted for Gordon Brown as he was doing a good job and he actualy saved the world's eceonomy. The savage cuts being made by the Tories are unnecessary and entirely vindictive. They are idealogicaly driven to dismantle the State and to wage war against the Working Class. It is Capitalism and the constant drive for economic growth that are unsustainable. It is NOT Labour's fault that we are in this mess, it is the fault of the Bankers, and the US stock market. There will be riots all across the country by next year.
Gordon was pretty fond of the banks as they helped him to fund the bloated public sector. What good will riots do? And anyway what is the British working class? This isn't the 50s.
What is the British working class??!! *ROLLS EYES* Don't be fooled into thinking the Class War is over. We are still here, we still exist, and we are tired of being shat on by the rich. If you have a job, and you have to work for a living, then you are working class. Riots will send a shock wave through the ruling elite, like when the students stormed the Tory HQ last week, which was good to see. We should all rebel like our French and Greek comrades rather than just sit there and take it.
You appear to have ignored what facts I put before you regarding why it's the governments fault, a simple over sight or can't you put forward a point other than it was the bankers.
.
If it was solely the bankers fault I'm all ears to hearing why so if you could explain that to me and how this meant that the government was spending £4 for every £3 it recieved, thanks in advance.
[quote][p][bold]Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thecitygent[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: The harsh reality of a bloated unsustainable public sector is coming to bite us in the bum. . Look at the mess Ireland are in by spending way more than they were bringing in, thankfully people weren't stupid enough (although clearly many were) to vote Gordon Brown back in or we'd we heading for the same place as Ireland. . Wonder if any of the six figure salary earners will be losing their jobs, or are even taking a pay cut, I think we all know the answer to that though.[/p][/quote]I voted for Gordon Brown as he was doing a good job and he actualy saved the world's eceonomy. The savage cuts being made by the Tories are unnecessary and entirely vindictive. They are idealogicaly driven to dismantle the State and to wage war against the Working Class. It is Capitalism and the constant drive for economic growth that are unsustainable. It is NOT Labour's fault that we are in this mess, it is the fault of the Bankers, and the US stock market. There will be riots all across the country by next year.[/p][/quote]Gordon was pretty fond of the banks as they helped him to fund the bloated public sector. What good will riots do? And anyway what is the British working class? This isn't the 50s.[/p][/quote]What is the British working class??!! *ROLLS EYES* Don't be fooled into thinking the Class War is over. We are still here, we still exist, and we are tired of being shat on by the rich. If you have a job, and you have to work for a living, then you are working class. Riots will send a shock wave through the ruling elite, like when the students stormed the Tory HQ last week, which was good to see. We should all rebel like our French and Greek comrades rather than just sit there and take it.[/p][/quote]You appear to have ignored what facts I put before you regarding why it's the governments fault, a simple over sight or can't you put forward a point other than it was the bankers. . If it was solely the bankers fault I'm all ears to hearing why so if you could explain that to me and how this meant that the government was spending £4 for every £3 it recieved, thanks in advance. Thee Voice of Reason
  • Score: 0

12:37pm Tue 23 Nov 10

albion says...

Landless Peasant wrote:
thecitygent wrote:
Landless Peasant wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote: The harsh reality of a bloated unsustainable public sector is coming to bite us in the bum. . Look at the mess Ireland are in by spending way more than they were bringing in, thankfully people weren't stupid enough (although clearly many were) to vote Gordon Brown back in or we'd we heading for the same place as Ireland. . Wonder if any of the six figure salary earners will be losing their jobs, or are even taking a pay cut, I think we all know the answer to that though.
I voted for Gordon Brown as he was doing a good job and he actualy saved the world's eceonomy. The savage cuts being made by the Tories are unnecessary and entirely vindictive. They are idealogicaly driven to dismantle the State and to wage war against the Working Class. It is Capitalism and the constant drive for economic growth that are unsustainable. It is NOT Labour's fault that we are in this mess, it is the fault of the Bankers, and the US stock market. There will be riots all across the country by next year.
Gordon was pretty fond of the banks as they helped him to fund the bloated public sector. What good will riots do? And anyway what is the British working class? This isn't the 50s.
What is the British working class??!! *ROLLS EYES* Don't be fooled into thinking the Class War is over. We are still here, we still exist, and we are tired of being shat on by the rich. If you have a job, and you have to work for a living, then you are working class. Riots will send a shock wave through the ruling elite, like when the students stormed the Tory HQ last week, which was good to see. We should all rebel like our French and Greek comrades rather than just sit there and take it.
To be working class you have to work! you never bothered troubling yourself overmuch with that.
[quote][p][bold]Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thecitygent[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: The harsh reality of a bloated unsustainable public sector is coming to bite us in the bum. . Look at the mess Ireland are in by spending way more than they were bringing in, thankfully people weren't stupid enough (although clearly many were) to vote Gordon Brown back in or we'd we heading for the same place as Ireland. . Wonder if any of the six figure salary earners will be losing their jobs, or are even taking a pay cut, I think we all know the answer to that though.[/p][/quote]I voted for Gordon Brown as he was doing a good job and he actualy saved the world's eceonomy. The savage cuts being made by the Tories are unnecessary and entirely vindictive. They are idealogicaly driven to dismantle the State and to wage war against the Working Class. It is Capitalism and the constant drive for economic growth that are unsustainable. It is NOT Labour's fault that we are in this mess, it is the fault of the Bankers, and the US stock market. There will be riots all across the country by next year.[/p][/quote]Gordon was pretty fond of the banks as they helped him to fund the bloated public sector. What good will riots do? And anyway what is the British working class? This isn't the 50s.[/p][/quote]What is the British working class??!! *ROLLS EYES* Don't be fooled into thinking the Class War is over. We are still here, we still exist, and we are tired of being shat on by the rich. If you have a job, and you have to work for a living, then you are working class. Riots will send a shock wave through the ruling elite, like when the students stormed the Tory HQ last week, which was good to see. We should all rebel like our French and Greek comrades rather than just sit there and take it.[/p][/quote]To be working class you have to work! you never bothered troubling yourself overmuch with that. albion
  • Score: 0

1:36pm Tue 23 Nov 10

Landless Peasant says...

albion wrote:
Landless Peasant wrote:
thecitygent wrote:
Landless Peasant wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote: The harsh reality of a bloated unsustainable public sector is coming to bite us in the bum. . Look at the mess Ireland are in by spending way more than they were bringing in, thankfully people weren't stupid enough (although clearly many were) to vote Gordon Brown back in or we'd we heading for the same place as Ireland. . Wonder if any of the six figure salary earners will be losing their jobs, or are even taking a pay cut, I think we all know the answer to that though.
I voted for Gordon Brown as he was doing a good job and he actualy saved the world's eceonomy. The savage cuts being made by the Tories are unnecessary and entirely vindictive. They are idealogicaly driven to dismantle the State and to wage war against the Working Class. It is Capitalism and the constant drive for economic growth that are unsustainable. It is NOT Labour's fault that we are in this mess, it is the fault of the Bankers, and the US stock market. There will be riots all across the country by next year.
Gordon was pretty fond of the banks as they helped him to fund the bloated public sector. What good will riots do? And anyway what is the British working class? This isn't the 50s.
What is the British working class??!! *ROLLS EYES* Don't be fooled into thinking the Class War is over. We are still here, we still exist, and we are tired of being shat on by the rich. If you have a job, and you have to work for a living, then you are working class. Riots will send a shock wave through the ruling elite, like when the students stormed the Tory HQ last week, which was good to see. We should all rebel like our French and Greek comrades rather than just sit there and take it.
To be working class you have to work! you never bothered troubling yourself overmuch with that.
Even the unemployed are Working Class, as they are unemployed workers, the reserve workforce upon which the Capitalist system relies for it's very existence. It is a misconception to think that there can ever be such a thing as full employment in a Capitalist system. Capitalism creates unemployment, in order to maintain the balance of power in favour of the Capitalists rather than the workers. Therefore the Government owes us all a living.
[quote][p][bold]albion[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thecitygent[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: The harsh reality of a bloated unsustainable public sector is coming to bite us in the bum. . Look at the mess Ireland are in by spending way more than they were bringing in, thankfully people weren't stupid enough (although clearly many were) to vote Gordon Brown back in or we'd we heading for the same place as Ireland. . Wonder if any of the six figure salary earners will be losing their jobs, or are even taking a pay cut, I think we all know the answer to that though.[/p][/quote]I voted for Gordon Brown as he was doing a good job and he actualy saved the world's eceonomy. The savage cuts being made by the Tories are unnecessary and entirely vindictive. They are idealogicaly driven to dismantle the State and to wage war against the Working Class. It is Capitalism and the constant drive for economic growth that are unsustainable. It is NOT Labour's fault that we are in this mess, it is the fault of the Bankers, and the US stock market. There will be riots all across the country by next year.[/p][/quote]Gordon was pretty fond of the banks as they helped him to fund the bloated public sector. What good will riots do? And anyway what is the British working class? This isn't the 50s.[/p][/quote]What is the British working class??!! *ROLLS EYES* Don't be fooled into thinking the Class War is over. We are still here, we still exist, and we are tired of being shat on by the rich. If you have a job, and you have to work for a living, then you are working class. Riots will send a shock wave through the ruling elite, like when the students stormed the Tory HQ last week, which was good to see. We should all rebel like our French and Greek comrades rather than just sit there and take it.[/p][/quote]To be working class you have to work! you never bothered troubling yourself overmuch with that.[/p][/quote]Even the unemployed are Working Class, as they are unemployed workers, the reserve workforce upon which the Capitalist system relies for it's very existence. It is a misconception to think that there can ever be such a thing as full employment in a Capitalist system. Capitalism creates unemployment, in order to maintain the balance of power in favour of the Capitalists rather than the workers. Therefore the Government owes us all a living. Landless Peasant
  • Score: 0

1:38pm Tue 23 Nov 10

albion says...

Landless Peasant wrote:
albion wrote:
Landless Peasant wrote:
thecitygent wrote:
Landless Peasant wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote: The harsh reality of a bloated unsustainable public sector is coming to bite us in the bum. . Look at the mess Ireland are in by spending way more than they were bringing in, thankfully people weren't stupid enough (although clearly many were) to vote Gordon Brown back in or we'd we heading for the same place as Ireland. . Wonder if any of the six figure salary earners will be losing their jobs, or are even taking a pay cut, I think we all know the answer to that though.
I voted for Gordon Brown as he was doing a good job and he actualy saved the world's eceonomy. The savage cuts being made by the Tories are unnecessary and entirely vindictive. They are idealogicaly driven to dismantle the State and to wage war against the Working Class. It is Capitalism and the constant drive for economic growth that are unsustainable. It is NOT Labour's fault that we are in this mess, it is the fault of the Bankers, and the US stock market. There will be riots all across the country by next year.
Gordon was pretty fond of the banks as they helped him to fund the bloated public sector. What good will riots do? And anyway what is the British working class? This isn't the 50s.
What is the British working class??!! *ROLLS EYES* Don't be fooled into thinking the Class War is over. We are still here, we still exist, and we are tired of being shat on by the rich. If you have a job, and you have to work for a living, then you are working class. Riots will send a shock wave through the ruling elite, like when the students stormed the Tory HQ last week, which was good to see. We should all rebel like our French and Greek comrades rather than just sit there and take it.
To be working class you have to work! you never bothered troubling yourself overmuch with that.
Even the unemployed are Working Class, as they are unemployed workers, the reserve workforce upon which the Capitalist system relies for it's very existence. It is a misconception to think that there can ever be such a thing as full employment in a Capitalist system. Capitalism creates unemployment, in order to maintain the balance of power in favour of the Capitalists rather than the workers. Therefore the Government owes us all a living.
Yes Trev you carry on trying to justify your existence.
[quote][p][bold]Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]albion[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thecitygent[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: The harsh reality of a bloated unsustainable public sector is coming to bite us in the bum. . Look at the mess Ireland are in by spending way more than they were bringing in, thankfully people weren't stupid enough (although clearly many were) to vote Gordon Brown back in or we'd we heading for the same place as Ireland. . Wonder if any of the six figure salary earners will be losing their jobs, or are even taking a pay cut, I think we all know the answer to that though.[/p][/quote]I voted for Gordon Brown as he was doing a good job and he actualy saved the world's eceonomy. The savage cuts being made by the Tories are unnecessary and entirely vindictive. They are idealogicaly driven to dismantle the State and to wage war against the Working Class. It is Capitalism and the constant drive for economic growth that are unsustainable. It is NOT Labour's fault that we are in this mess, it is the fault of the Bankers, and the US stock market. There will be riots all across the country by next year.[/p][/quote]Gordon was pretty fond of the banks as they helped him to fund the bloated public sector. What good will riots do? And anyway what is the British working class? This isn't the 50s.[/p][/quote]What is the British working class??!! *ROLLS EYES* Don't be fooled into thinking the Class War is over. We are still here, we still exist, and we are tired of being shat on by the rich. If you have a job, and you have to work for a living, then you are working class. Riots will send a shock wave through the ruling elite, like when the students stormed the Tory HQ last week, which was good to see. We should all rebel like our French and Greek comrades rather than just sit there and take it.[/p][/quote]To be working class you have to work! you never bothered troubling yourself overmuch with that.[/p][/quote]Even the unemployed are Working Class, as they are unemployed workers, the reserve workforce upon which the Capitalist system relies for it's very existence. It is a misconception to think that there can ever be such a thing as full employment in a Capitalist system. Capitalism creates unemployment, in order to maintain the balance of power in favour of the Capitalists rather than the workers. Therefore the Government owes us all a living.[/p][/quote]Yes Trev you carry on trying to justify your existence. albion
  • Score: 0

1:57pm Tue 23 Nov 10

Landless Peasant says...

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
Landless Peasant wrote:
thecitygent wrote:
Landless Peasant wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote: The harsh reality of a bloated unsustainable public sector is coming to bite us in the bum. . Look at the mess Ireland are in by spending way more than they were bringing in, thankfully people weren't stupid enough (although clearly many were) to vote Gordon Brown back in or we'd we heading for the same place as Ireland. . Wonder if any of the six figure salary earners will be losing their jobs, or are even taking a pay cut, I think we all know the answer to that though.
I voted for Gordon Brown as he was doing a good job and he actualy saved the world's eceonomy. The savage cuts being made by the Tories are unnecessary and entirely vindictive. They are idealogicaly driven to dismantle the State and to wage war against the Working Class. It is Capitalism and the constant drive for economic growth that are unsustainable. It is NOT Labour's fault that we are in this mess, it is the fault of the Bankers, and the US stock market. There will be riots all across the country by next year.
Gordon was pretty fond of the banks as they helped him to fund the bloated public sector. What good will riots do? And anyway what is the British working class? This isn't the 50s.
What is the British working class??!! *ROLLS EYES* Don't be fooled into thinking the Class War is over. We are still here, we still exist, and we are tired of being shat on by the rich. If you have a job, and you have to work for a living, then you are working class. Riots will send a shock wave through the ruling elite, like when the students stormed the Tory HQ last week, which was good to see. We should all rebel like our French and Greek comrades rather than just sit there and take it.
You appear to have ignored what facts I put before you regarding why it's the governments fault, a simple over sight or can't you put forward a point other than it was the bankers. . If it was solely the bankers fault I'm all ears to hearing why so if you could explain that to me and how this meant that the government was spending £4 for every £3 it recieved, thanks in advance.
There really is no other point other than it was the Bankers, and Vulture (venture) Capitalists, who have bled the country dry. Increased public spending, as with Labour, actually stimulates the economy, whereas the Tory cuts are going to sink it altogether. Public spending is a good thing, Labour were doing the right thing. The Government also needs to address the problem of large corporations (inc. banks) who legally commit tax evasion to the tune of 100's of Bilions per yera. It is they who are creaming off the wealth and the reason why the workers are now being made to suffer.
[quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thecitygent[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: The harsh reality of a bloated unsustainable public sector is coming to bite us in the bum. . Look at the mess Ireland are in by spending way more than they were bringing in, thankfully people weren't stupid enough (although clearly many were) to vote Gordon Brown back in or we'd we heading for the same place as Ireland. . Wonder if any of the six figure salary earners will be losing their jobs, or are even taking a pay cut, I think we all know the answer to that though.[/p][/quote]I voted for Gordon Brown as he was doing a good job and he actualy saved the world's eceonomy. The savage cuts being made by the Tories are unnecessary and entirely vindictive. They are idealogicaly driven to dismantle the State and to wage war against the Working Class. It is Capitalism and the constant drive for economic growth that are unsustainable. It is NOT Labour's fault that we are in this mess, it is the fault of the Bankers, and the US stock market. There will be riots all across the country by next year.[/p][/quote]Gordon was pretty fond of the banks as they helped him to fund the bloated public sector. What good will riots do? And anyway what is the British working class? This isn't the 50s.[/p][/quote]What is the British working class??!! *ROLLS EYES* Don't be fooled into thinking the Class War is over. We are still here, we still exist, and we are tired of being shat on by the rich. If you have a job, and you have to work for a living, then you are working class. Riots will send a shock wave through the ruling elite, like when the students stormed the Tory HQ last week, which was good to see. We should all rebel like our French and Greek comrades rather than just sit there and take it.[/p][/quote]You appear to have ignored what facts I put before you regarding why it's the governments fault, a simple over sight or can't you put forward a point other than it was the bankers. . If it was solely the bankers fault I'm all ears to hearing why so if you could explain that to me and how this meant that the government was spending £4 for every £3 it recieved, thanks in advance.[/p][/quote]There really is no other point other than it was the Bankers, and Vulture (venture) Capitalists, who have bled the country dry. Increased public spending, as with Labour, actually stimulates the economy, whereas the Tory cuts are going to sink it altogether. Public spending is a good thing, Labour were doing the right thing. The Government also needs to address the problem of large corporations (inc. banks) who legally commit tax evasion to the tune of 100's of Bilions per yera. It is they who are creaming off the wealth and the reason why the workers are now being made to suffer. Landless Peasant
  • Score: 0

2:08pm Tue 23 Nov 10

pbrown says...

This is unfair only the lazy and overstaffed departments (the planning department would be a good start) should be at risk not the hard working and needed sections
This is unfair only the lazy and overstaffed departments (the planning department would be a good start) should be at risk not the hard working and needed sections pbrown
  • Score: 0

2:15pm Tue 23 Nov 10

Thee Voice of Reason says...

Landless Peasant wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
Landless Peasant wrote:
thecitygent wrote:
Landless Peasant wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote: The harsh reality of a bloated unsustainable public sector is coming to bite us in the bum. . Look at the mess Ireland are in by spending way more than they were bringing in, thankfully people weren't stupid enough (although clearly many were) to vote Gordon Brown back in or we'd we heading for the same place as Ireland. . Wonder if any of the six figure salary earners will be losing their jobs, or are even taking a pay cut, I think we all know the answer to that though.
I voted for Gordon Brown as he was doing a good job and he actualy saved the world's eceonomy. The savage cuts being made by the Tories are unnecessary and entirely vindictive. They are idealogicaly driven to dismantle the State and to wage war against the Working Class. It is Capitalism and the constant drive for economic growth that are unsustainable. It is NOT Labour's fault that we are in this mess, it is the fault of the Bankers, and the US stock market. There will be riots all across the country by next year.
Gordon was pretty fond of the banks as they helped him to fund the bloated public sector. What good will riots do? And anyway what is the British working class? This isn't the 50s.
What is the British working class??!! *ROLLS EYES* Don't be fooled into thinking the Class War is over. We are still here, we still exist, and we are tired of being shat on by the rich. If you have a job, and you have to work for a living, then you are working class. Riots will send a shock wave through the ruling elite, like when the students stormed the Tory HQ last week, which was good to see. We should all rebel like our French and Greek comrades rather than just sit there and take it.
You appear to have ignored what facts I put before you regarding why it's the governments fault, a simple over sight or can't you put forward a point other than it was the bankers. . If it was solely the bankers fault I'm all ears to hearing why so if you could explain that to me and how this meant that the government was spending £4 for every £3 it recieved, thanks in advance.
There really is no other point other than it was the Bankers, and Vulture (venture) Capitalists, who have bled the country dry. Increased public spending, as with Labour, actually stimulates the economy, whereas the Tory cuts are going to sink it altogether. Public spending is a good thing, Labour were doing the right thing. The Government also needs to address the problem of large corporations (inc. banks) who legally commit tax evasion to the tune of 100's of Bilions per yera. It is they who are creaming off the wealth and the reason why the workers are now being made to suffer.
That argument makes no sense what so ever. Public spending is fine if you have the money to pay for it, but we don't. We were spending £4 for every £3 we received. That’s the way to bankcrupcy. I'll agree there is tax avoidance and that need to be reigned in but you are deluded if you think that spending money we don't have indefinately under Labour was the right thing to do. Look at the man who helped put us where we are today, Mr Brown. He doesn't even attend parliment yet he is still an MP, so he is being paid for what equates to nothing at the moment. If he was my MP I would be extremely angry that he isn't doing what he was elected to do.
.
Your going to have to come up with a better arguement than that to prove it was the bankers fault, all you do is say it's their fault without giving any reason why running a bloated public sector with a £170bn deficit is the sole fault of the bankers.
.
There are too many people in non jobs in this country, hopefully those in the front line will escape the axe whilst the climate change champions and diversity officers are shown the door.
[quote][p][bold]Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thecitygent[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: The harsh reality of a bloated unsustainable public sector is coming to bite us in the bum. . Look at the mess Ireland are in by spending way more than they were bringing in, thankfully people weren't stupid enough (although clearly many were) to vote Gordon Brown back in or we'd we heading for the same place as Ireland. . Wonder if any of the six figure salary earners will be losing their jobs, or are even taking a pay cut, I think we all know the answer to that though.[/p][/quote]I voted for Gordon Brown as he was doing a good job and he actualy saved the world's eceonomy. The savage cuts being made by the Tories are unnecessary and entirely vindictive. They are idealogicaly driven to dismantle the State and to wage war against the Working Class. It is Capitalism and the constant drive for economic growth that are unsustainable. It is NOT Labour's fault that we are in this mess, it is the fault of the Bankers, and the US stock market. There will be riots all across the country by next year.[/p][/quote]Gordon was pretty fond of the banks as they helped him to fund the bloated public sector. What good will riots do? And anyway what is the British working class? This isn't the 50s.[/p][/quote]What is the British working class??!! *ROLLS EYES* Don't be fooled into thinking the Class War is over. We are still here, we still exist, and we are tired of being shat on by the rich. If you have a job, and you have to work for a living, then you are working class. Riots will send a shock wave through the ruling elite, like when the students stormed the Tory HQ last week, which was good to see. We should all rebel like our French and Greek comrades rather than just sit there and take it.[/p][/quote]You appear to have ignored what facts I put before you regarding why it's the governments fault, a simple over sight or can't you put forward a point other than it was the bankers. . If it was solely the bankers fault I'm all ears to hearing why so if you could explain that to me and how this meant that the government was spending £4 for every £3 it recieved, thanks in advance.[/p][/quote]There really is no other point other than it was the Bankers, and Vulture (venture) Capitalists, who have bled the country dry. Increased public spending, as with Labour, actually stimulates the economy, whereas the Tory cuts are going to sink it altogether. Public spending is a good thing, Labour were doing the right thing. The Government also needs to address the problem of large corporations (inc. banks) who legally commit tax evasion to the tune of 100's of Bilions per yera. It is they who are creaming off the wealth and the reason why the workers are now being made to suffer.[/p][/quote]That argument makes no sense what so ever. Public spending is fine if you have the money to pay for it, but we don't. We were spending £4 for every £3 we received. That’s the way to bankcrupcy. I'll agree there is tax avoidance and that need to be reigned in but you are deluded if you think that spending money we don't have indefinately under Labour was the right thing to do. Look at the man who helped put us where we are today, Mr Brown. He doesn't even attend parliment yet he is still an MP, so he is being paid for what equates to nothing at the moment. If he was my MP I would be extremely angry that he isn't doing what he was elected to do. . Your going to have to come up with a better arguement than that to prove it was the bankers fault, all you do is say it's their fault without giving any reason why running a bloated public sector with a £170bn deficit is the sole fault of the bankers. . There are too many people in non jobs in this country, hopefully those in the front line will escape the axe whilst the climate change champions and diversity officers are shown the door. Thee Voice of Reason
  • Score: 0

2:31pm Tue 23 Nov 10

pipsb says...

I was made redundant myself last year & have seen co-workers take upto 35% reductions in wages & salaries in trying to save there jobs, in most instances jobs were lost. There were many a unhappy person, myself included.

So for all the council employees and thiose of you bleeting on and on, Wake Up, Smell the Coffee and Welcome to the Real World

The private sector has had to contend with this issue for a number of years now, so what makes the council employees so special.
I was made redundant myself last year & have seen co-workers take upto 35% reductions in wages & salaries in trying to save there jobs, in most instances jobs were lost. There were many a unhappy person, myself included. So for all the council employees and thiose of you bleeting on and on, Wake Up, Smell the Coffee and Welcome to the Real World The private sector has had to contend with this issue for a number of years now, so what makes the council employees so special. pipsb
  • Score: 0

2:33pm Tue 23 Nov 10

Landless Peasant says...

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
Landless Peasant wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
Landless Peasant wrote:
thecitygent wrote:
Landless Peasant wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote: The harsh reality of a bloated unsustainable public sector is coming to bite us in the bum. . Look at the mess Ireland are in by spending way more than they were bringing in, thankfully people weren't stupid enough (although clearly many were) to vote Gordon Brown back in or we'd we heading for the same place as Ireland. . Wonder if any of the six figure salary earners will be losing their jobs, or are even taking a pay cut, I think we all know the answer to that though.
I voted for Gordon Brown as he was doing a good job and he actualy saved the world's eceonomy. The savage cuts being made by the Tories are unnecessary and entirely vindictive. They are idealogicaly driven to dismantle the State and to wage war against the Working Class. It is Capitalism and the constant drive for economic growth that are unsustainable. It is NOT Labour's fault that we are in this mess, it is the fault of the Bankers, and the US stock market. There will be riots all across the country by next year.
Gordon was pretty fond of the banks as they helped him to fund the bloated public sector. What good will riots do? And anyway what is the British working class? This isn't the 50s.
What is the British working class??!! *ROLLS EYES* Don't be fooled into thinking the Class War is over. We are still here, we still exist, and we are tired of being shat on by the rich. If you have a job, and you have to work for a living, then you are working class. Riots will send a shock wave through the ruling elite, like when the students stormed the Tory HQ last week, which was good to see. We should all rebel like our French and Greek comrades rather than just sit there and take it.
You appear to have ignored what facts I put before you regarding why it's the governments fault, a simple over sight or can't you put forward a point other than it was the bankers. . If it was solely the bankers fault I'm all ears to hearing why so if you could explain that to me and how this meant that the government was spending £4 for every £3 it recieved, thanks in advance.
There really is no other point other than it was the Bankers, and Vulture (venture) Capitalists, who have bled the country dry. Increased public spending, as with Labour, actually stimulates the economy, whereas the Tory cuts are going to sink it altogether. Public spending is a good thing, Labour were doing the right thing. The Government also needs to address the problem of large corporations (inc. banks) who legally commit tax evasion to the tune of 100's of Bilions per yera. It is they who are creaming off the wealth and the reason why the workers are now being made to suffer.
That argument makes no sense what so ever. Public spending is fine if you have the money to pay for it, but we don't. We were spending £4 for every £3 we received. That’s the way to bankcrupcy. I'll agree there is tax avoidance and that need to be reigned in but you are deluded if you think that spending money we don't have indefinately under Labour was the right thing to do. Look at the man who helped put us where we are today, Mr Brown. He doesn't even attend parliment yet he is still an MP, so he is being paid for what equates to nothing at the moment. If he was my MP I would be extremely angry that he isn't doing what he was elected to do. . Your going to have to come up with a better arguement than that to prove it was the bankers fault, all you do is say it's their fault without giving any reason why running a bloated public sector with a £170bn deficit is the sole fault of the bankers. . There are too many people in non jobs in this country, hopefully those in the front line will escape the axe whilst the climate change champions and diversity officers are shown the door.
The thing is, we don't really have a deficit, it just appears that we do on paper, because we bought the banks, and when the banks recover and buy themselves back we will no longer have a deficit. The whole financial crisis arose because of the US mortage and hedge funds markets, which were badly managed, inherently flawed and wide open to exploitation bygreedy and unscrupulous venture capitalists. The so-called deficit is nothing at all to do with Labour spending! Spending stimulates the economy, without it the economy stagnates, which is what will now happen under the Tories.
[quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thecitygent[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: The harsh reality of a bloated unsustainable public sector is coming to bite us in the bum. . Look at the mess Ireland are in by spending way more than they were bringing in, thankfully people weren't stupid enough (although clearly many were) to vote Gordon Brown back in or we'd we heading for the same place as Ireland. . Wonder if any of the six figure salary earners will be losing their jobs, or are even taking a pay cut, I think we all know the answer to that though.[/p][/quote]I voted for Gordon Brown as he was doing a good job and he actualy saved the world's eceonomy. The savage cuts being made by the Tories are unnecessary and entirely vindictive. They are idealogicaly driven to dismantle the State and to wage war against the Working Class. It is Capitalism and the constant drive for economic growth that are unsustainable. It is NOT Labour's fault that we are in this mess, it is the fault of the Bankers, and the US stock market. There will be riots all across the country by next year.[/p][/quote]Gordon was pretty fond of the banks as they helped him to fund the bloated public sector. What good will riots do? And anyway what is the British working class? This isn't the 50s.[/p][/quote]What is the British working class??!! *ROLLS EYES* Don't be fooled into thinking the Class War is over. We are still here, we still exist, and we are tired of being shat on by the rich. If you have a job, and you have to work for a living, then you are working class. Riots will send a shock wave through the ruling elite, like when the students stormed the Tory HQ last week, which was good to see. We should all rebel like our French and Greek comrades rather than just sit there and take it.[/p][/quote]You appear to have ignored what facts I put before you regarding why it's the governments fault, a simple over sight or can't you put forward a point other than it was the bankers. . If it was solely the bankers fault I'm all ears to hearing why so if you could explain that to me and how this meant that the government was spending £4 for every £3 it recieved, thanks in advance.[/p][/quote]There really is no other point other than it was the Bankers, and Vulture (venture) Capitalists, who have bled the country dry. Increased public spending, as with Labour, actually stimulates the economy, whereas the Tory cuts are going to sink it altogether. Public spending is a good thing, Labour were doing the right thing. The Government also needs to address the problem of large corporations (inc. banks) who legally commit tax evasion to the tune of 100's of Bilions per yera. It is they who are creaming off the wealth and the reason why the workers are now being made to suffer.[/p][/quote]That argument makes no sense what so ever. Public spending is fine if you have the money to pay for it, but we don't. We were spending £4 for every £3 we received. That’s the way to bankcrupcy. I'll agree there is tax avoidance and that need to be reigned in but you are deluded if you think that spending money we don't have indefinately under Labour was the right thing to do. Look at the man who helped put us where we are today, Mr Brown. He doesn't even attend parliment yet he is still an MP, so he is being paid for what equates to nothing at the moment. If he was my MP I would be extremely angry that he isn't doing what he was elected to do. . Your going to have to come up with a better arguement than that to prove it was the bankers fault, all you do is say it's their fault without giving any reason why running a bloated public sector with a £170bn deficit is the sole fault of the bankers. . There are too many people in non jobs in this country, hopefully those in the front line will escape the axe whilst the climate change champions and diversity officers are shown the door.[/p][/quote]The thing is, we don't really have a deficit, it just appears that we do on paper, because we bought the banks, and when the banks recover and buy themselves back we will no longer have a deficit. The whole financial crisis arose because of the US mortage and hedge funds markets, which were badly managed, inherently flawed and wide open to exploitation bygreedy and unscrupulous venture capitalists. The so-called deficit is nothing at all to do with Labour spending! Spending stimulates the economy, without it the economy stagnates, which is what will now happen under the Tories. Landless Peasant
  • Score: 0

3:01pm Tue 23 Nov 10

Waterloo1815 says...

Landless Peasant wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
Landless Peasant wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
Landless Peasant wrote:
thecitygent wrote:
Landless Peasant wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote: The harsh reality of a bloated unsustainable public sector is coming to bite us in the bum. . Look at the mess Ireland are in by spending way more than they were bringing in, thankfully people weren't stupid enough (although clearly many were) to vote Gordon Brown back in or we'd we heading for the same place as Ireland. . Wonder if any of the six figure salary earners will be losing their jobs, or are even taking a pay cut, I think we all know the answer to that though.
I voted for Gordon Brown as he was doing a good job and he actualy saved the world's eceonomy. The savage cuts being made by the Tories are unnecessary and entirely vindictive. They are idealogicaly driven to dismantle the State and to wage war against the Working Class. It is Capitalism and the constant drive for economic growth that are unsustainable. It is NOT Labour's fault that we are in this mess, it is the fault of the Bankers, and the US stock market. There will be riots all across the country by next year.
Gordon was pretty fond of the banks as they helped him to fund the bloated public sector. What good will riots do? And anyway what is the British working class? This isn't the 50s.
What is the British working class??!! *ROLLS EYES* Don't be fooled into thinking the Class War is over. We are still here, we still exist, and we are tired of being shat on by the rich. If you have a job, and you have to work for a living, then you are working class. Riots will send a shock wave through the ruling elite, like when the students stormed the Tory HQ last week, which was good to see. We should all rebel like our French and Greek comrades rather than just sit there and take it.
You appear to have ignored what facts I put before you regarding why it's the governments fault, a simple over sight or can't you put forward a point other than it was the bankers. . If it was solely the bankers fault I'm all ears to hearing why so if you could explain that to me and how this meant that the government was spending £4 for every £3 it recieved, thanks in advance.
There really is no other point other than it was the Bankers, and Vulture (venture) Capitalists, who have bled the country dry. Increased public spending, as with Labour, actually stimulates the economy, whereas the Tory cuts are going to sink it altogether. Public spending is a good thing, Labour were doing the right thing. The Government also needs to address the problem of large corporations (inc. banks) who legally commit tax evasion to the tune of 100's of Bilions per yera. It is they who are creaming off the wealth and the reason why the workers are now being made to suffer.
That argument makes no sense what so ever. Public spending is fine if you have the money to pay for it, but we don't. We were spending £4 for every £3 we received. That’s the way to bankcrupcy. I'll agree there is tax avoidance and that need to be reigned in but you are deluded if you think that spending money we don't have indefinately under Labour was the right thing to do. Look at the man who helped put us where we are today, Mr Brown. He doesn't even attend parliment yet he is still an MP, so he is being paid for what equates to nothing at the moment. If he was my MP I would be extremely angry that he isn't doing what he was elected to do. . Your going to have to come up with a better arguement than that to prove it was the bankers fault, all you do is say it's their fault without giving any reason why running a bloated public sector with a £170bn deficit is the sole fault of the bankers. . There are too many people in non jobs in this country, hopefully those in the front line will escape the axe whilst the climate change champions and diversity officers are shown the door.
The thing is, we don't really have a deficit, it just appears that we do on paper, because we bought the banks, and when the banks recover and buy themselves back we will no longer have a deficit. The whole financial crisis arose because of the US mortage and hedge funds markets, which were badly managed, inherently flawed and wide open to exploitation bygreedy and unscrupulous venture capitalists. The so-called deficit is nothing at all to do with Labour spending! Spending stimulates the economy, without it the economy stagnates, which is what will now happen under the Tories.
Hogwash! It’s all the fault of Thora Hird. If she hadn’t pulled out of Shakleton’s high seat chair advertising campaign we’d still have a manufacturing base here in Yorkshire.
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I blame her and Stars on Sunday.

.
Harry Secombe has probably got something do with it as well……
[quote][p][bold]Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thecitygent[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: The harsh reality of a bloated unsustainable public sector is coming to bite us in the bum. . Look at the mess Ireland are in by spending way more than they were bringing in, thankfully people weren't stupid enough (although clearly many were) to vote Gordon Brown back in or we'd we heading for the same place as Ireland. . Wonder if any of the six figure salary earners will be losing their jobs, or are even taking a pay cut, I think we all know the answer to that though.[/p][/quote]I voted for Gordon Brown as he was doing a good job and he actualy saved the world's eceonomy. The savage cuts being made by the Tories are unnecessary and entirely vindictive. They are idealogicaly driven to dismantle the State and to wage war against the Working Class. It is Capitalism and the constant drive for economic growth that are unsustainable. It is NOT Labour's fault that we are in this mess, it is the fault of the Bankers, and the US stock market. There will be riots all across the country by next year.[/p][/quote]Gordon was pretty fond of the banks as they helped him to fund the bloated public sector. What good will riots do? And anyway what is the British working class? This isn't the 50s.[/p][/quote]What is the British working class??!! *ROLLS EYES* Don't be fooled into thinking the Class War is over. We are still here, we still exist, and we are tired of being shat on by the rich. If you have a job, and you have to work for a living, then you are working class. Riots will send a shock wave through the ruling elite, like when the students stormed the Tory HQ last week, which was good to see. We should all rebel like our French and Greek comrades rather than just sit there and take it.[/p][/quote]You appear to have ignored what facts I put before you regarding why it's the governments fault, a simple over sight or can't you put forward a point other than it was the bankers. . If it was solely the bankers fault I'm all ears to hearing why so if you could explain that to me and how this meant that the government was spending £4 for every £3 it recieved, thanks in advance.[/p][/quote]There really is no other point other than it was the Bankers, and Vulture (venture) Capitalists, who have bled the country dry. Increased public spending, as with Labour, actually stimulates the economy, whereas the Tory cuts are going to sink it altogether. Public spending is a good thing, Labour were doing the right thing. The Government also needs to address the problem of large corporations (inc. banks) who legally commit tax evasion to the tune of 100's of Bilions per yera. It is they who are creaming off the wealth and the reason why the workers are now being made to suffer.[/p][/quote]That argument makes no sense what so ever. Public spending is fine if you have the money to pay for it, but we don't. We were spending £4 for every £3 we received. That’s the way to bankcrupcy. I'll agree there is tax avoidance and that need to be reigned in but you are deluded if you think that spending money we don't have indefinately under Labour was the right thing to do. Look at the man who helped put us where we are today, Mr Brown. He doesn't even attend parliment yet he is still an MP, so he is being paid for what equates to nothing at the moment. If he was my MP I would be extremely angry that he isn't doing what he was elected to do. . Your going to have to come up with a better arguement than that to prove it was the bankers fault, all you do is say it's their fault without giving any reason why running a bloated public sector with a £170bn deficit is the sole fault of the bankers. . There are too many people in non jobs in this country, hopefully those in the front line will escape the axe whilst the climate change champions and diversity officers are shown the door.[/p][/quote]The thing is, we don't really have a deficit, it just appears that we do on paper, because we bought the banks, and when the banks recover and buy themselves back we will no longer have a deficit. The whole financial crisis arose because of the US mortage and hedge funds markets, which were badly managed, inherently flawed and wide open to exploitation bygreedy and unscrupulous venture capitalists. The so-called deficit is nothing at all to do with Labour spending! Spending stimulates the economy, without it the economy stagnates, which is what will now happen under the Tories.[/p][/quote]Hogwash! It’s all the fault of Thora Hird. If she hadn’t pulled out of Shakleton’s high seat chair advertising campaign we’d still have a manufacturing base here in Yorkshire. . I blame her and Stars on Sunday. . Harry Secombe has probably got something do with it as well…… Waterloo1815
  • Score: 0

3:07pm Tue 23 Nov 10

Thee Voice of Reason says...

Landless Peasant wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
Landless Peasant wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
Landless Peasant wrote:
thecitygent wrote:
Landless Peasant wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote: The harsh reality of a bloated unsustainable public sector is coming to bite us in the bum. . Look at the mess Ireland are in by spending way more than they were bringing in, thankfully people weren't stupid enough (although clearly many were) to vote Gordon Brown back in or we'd we heading for the same place as Ireland. . Wonder if any of the six figure salary earners will be losing their jobs, or are even taking a pay cut, I think we all know the answer to that though.
I voted for Gordon Brown as he was doing a good job and he actualy saved the world's eceonomy. The savage cuts being made by the Tories are unnecessary and entirely vindictive. They are idealogicaly driven to dismantle the State and to wage war against the Working Class. It is Capitalism and the constant drive for economic growth that are unsustainable. It is NOT Labour's fault that we are in this mess, it is the fault of the Bankers, and the US stock market. There will be riots all across the country by next year.
Gordon was pretty fond of the banks as they helped him to fund the bloated public sector. What good will riots do? And anyway what is the British working class? This isn't the 50s.
What is the British working class??!! *ROLLS EYES* Don't be fooled into thinking the Class War is over. We are still here, we still exist, and we are tired of being shat on by the rich. If you have a job, and you have to work for a living, then you are working class. Riots will send a shock wave through the ruling elite, like when the students stormed the Tory HQ last week, which was good to see. We should all rebel like our French and Greek comrades rather than just sit there and take it.
You appear to have ignored what facts I put before you regarding why it's the governments fault, a simple over sight or can't you put forward a point other than it was the bankers. . If it was solely the bankers fault I'm all ears to hearing why so if you could explain that to me and how this meant that the government was spending £4 for every £3 it recieved, thanks in advance.
There really is no other point other than it was the Bankers, and Vulture (venture) Capitalists, who have bled the country dry. Increased public spending, as with Labour, actually stimulates the economy, whereas the Tory cuts are going to sink it altogether. Public spending is a good thing, Labour were doing the right thing. The Government also needs to address the problem of large corporations (inc. banks) who legally commit tax evasion to the tune of 100's of Bilions per yera. It is they who are creaming off the wealth and the reason why the workers are now being made to suffer.
That argument makes no sense what so ever. Public spending is fine if you have the money to pay for it, but we don't. We were spending £4 for every £3 we received. That’s the way to bankcrupcy. I'll agree there is tax avoidance and that need to be reigned in but you are deluded if you think that spending money we don't have indefinately under Labour was the right thing to do. Look at the man who helped put us where we are today, Mr Brown. He doesn't even attend parliment yet he is still an MP, so he is being paid for what equates to nothing at the moment. If he was my MP I would be extremely angry that he isn't doing what he was elected to do. . Your going to have to come up with a better arguement than that to prove it was the bankers fault, all you do is say it's their fault without giving any reason why running a bloated public sector with a £170bn deficit is the sole fault of the bankers. . There are too many people in non jobs in this country, hopefully those in the front line will escape the axe whilst the climate change champions and diversity officers are shown the door.
The thing is, we don't really have a deficit, it just appears that we do on paper, because we bought the banks, and when the banks recover and buy themselves back we will no longer have a deficit. The whole financial crisis arose because of the US mortage and hedge funds markets, which were badly managed, inherently flawed and wide open to exploitation bygreedy and unscrupulous venture capitalists. The so-called deficit is nothing at all to do with Labour spending! Spending stimulates the economy, without it the economy stagnates, which is what will now happen under the Tories.
You have just proved you do not understand the deficit. We don't have a deficit, what rubbish. We do and the deficit is completely different from the national debt that isn't even mentioned.
.
It was forecast we would need to borrow £170bn on top of what we already owe just to get through this year. Thats increasing the debt by £170bn. No one has even talked about repaying any of the debt, this is mearly stoping it growing beyond what it currently is.
.
You clearly don't have a clue about the financial state of the country. What you actually do mention is yes the money paid to bail out the banks is an asset and we should get it back, but the rest, this £170bn black hole is money that has to be repaid and we aren't getting any assets for it.
.
The public sector is supported by the private sector, not the otherway round. The private sector generates the wealth that is taxed to pay for the public sector.
[quote][p][bold]Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thecitygent[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: The harsh reality of a bloated unsustainable public sector is coming to bite us in the bum. . Look at the mess Ireland are in by spending way more than they were bringing in, thankfully people weren't stupid enough (although clearly many were) to vote Gordon Brown back in or we'd we heading for the same place as Ireland. . Wonder if any of the six figure salary earners will be losing their jobs, or are even taking a pay cut, I think we all know the answer to that though.[/p][/quote]I voted for Gordon Brown as he was doing a good job and he actualy saved the world's eceonomy. The savage cuts being made by the Tories are unnecessary and entirely vindictive. They are idealogicaly driven to dismantle the State and to wage war against the Working Class. It is Capitalism and the constant drive for economic growth that are unsustainable. It is NOT Labour's fault that we are in this mess, it is the fault of the Bankers, and the US stock market. There will be riots all across the country by next year.[/p][/quote]Gordon was pretty fond of the banks as they helped him to fund the bloated public sector. What good will riots do? And anyway what is the British working class? This isn't the 50s.[/p][/quote]What is the British working class??!! *ROLLS EYES* Don't be fooled into thinking the Class War is over. We are still here, we still exist, and we are tired of being shat on by the rich. If you have a job, and you have to work for a living, then you are working class. Riots will send a shock wave through the ruling elite, like when the students stormed the Tory HQ last week, which was good to see. We should all rebel like our French and Greek comrades rather than just sit there and take it.[/p][/quote]You appear to have ignored what facts I put before you regarding why it's the governments fault, a simple over sight or can't you put forward a point other than it was the bankers. . If it was solely the bankers fault I'm all ears to hearing why so if you could explain that to me and how this meant that the government was spending £4 for every £3 it recieved, thanks in advance.[/p][/quote]There really is no other point other than it was the Bankers, and Vulture (venture) Capitalists, who have bled the country dry. Increased public spending, as with Labour, actually stimulates the economy, whereas the Tory cuts are going to sink it altogether. Public spending is a good thing, Labour were doing the right thing. The Government also needs to address the problem of large corporations (inc. banks) who legally commit tax evasion to the tune of 100's of Bilions per yera. It is they who are creaming off the wealth and the reason why the workers are now being made to suffer.[/p][/quote]That argument makes no sense what so ever. Public spending is fine if you have the money to pay for it, but we don't. We were spending £4 for every £3 we received. That’s the way to bankcrupcy. I'll agree there is tax avoidance and that need to be reigned in but you are deluded if you think that spending money we don't have indefinately under Labour was the right thing to do. Look at the man who helped put us where we are today, Mr Brown. He doesn't even attend parliment yet he is still an MP, so he is being paid for what equates to nothing at the moment. If he was my MP I would be extremely angry that he isn't doing what he was elected to do. . Your going to have to come up with a better arguement than that to prove it was the bankers fault, all you do is say it's their fault without giving any reason why running a bloated public sector with a £170bn deficit is the sole fault of the bankers. . There are too many people in non jobs in this country, hopefully those in the front line will escape the axe whilst the climate change champions and diversity officers are shown the door.[/p][/quote]The thing is, we don't really have a deficit, it just appears that we do on paper, because we bought the banks, and when the banks recover and buy themselves back we will no longer have a deficit. The whole financial crisis arose because of the US mortage and hedge funds markets, which were badly managed, inherently flawed and wide open to exploitation bygreedy and unscrupulous venture capitalists. The so-called deficit is nothing at all to do with Labour spending! Spending stimulates the economy, without it the economy stagnates, which is what will now happen under the Tories.[/p][/quote]You have just proved you do not understand the deficit. We don't have a deficit, what rubbish. We do and the deficit is completely different from the national debt that isn't even mentioned. . It was forecast we would need to borrow £170bn on top of what we already owe just to get through this year. Thats increasing the debt by £170bn. No one has even talked about repaying any of the debt, this is mearly stoping it growing beyond what it currently is. . You clearly don't have a clue about the financial state of the country. What you actually do mention is yes the money paid to bail out the banks is an asset and we should get it back, but the rest, this £170bn black hole is money that has to be repaid and we aren't getting any assets for it. . The public sector is supported by the private sector, not the otherway round. The private sector generates the wealth that is taxed to pay for the public sector. Thee Voice of Reason
  • Score: 0

3:15pm Tue 23 Nov 10

Duke of Odsal says...

Landless Peasant wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
Landless Peasant wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
Landless Peasant wrote:
thecitygent wrote:
Landless Peasant wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote: The harsh reality of a bloated unsustainable public sector is coming to bite us in the bum. . Look at the mess Ireland are in by spending way more than they were bringing in, thankfully people weren't stupid enough (although clearly many were) to vote Gordon Brown back in or we'd we heading for the same place as Ireland. . Wonder if any of the six figure salary earners will be losing their jobs, or are even taking a pay cut, I think we all know the answer to that though.
I voted for Gordon Brown as he was doing a good job and he actualy saved the world's eceonomy. The savage cuts being made by the Tories are unnecessary and entirely vindictive. They are idealogicaly driven to dismantle the State and to wage war against the Working Class. It is Capitalism and the constant drive for economic growth that are unsustainable. It is NOT Labour's fault that we are in this mess, it is the fault of the Bankers, and the US stock market. There will be riots all across the country by next year.
Gordon was pretty fond of the banks as they helped him to fund the bloated public sector. What good will riots do? And anyway what is the British working class? This isn't the 50s.
What is the British working class??!! *ROLLS EYES* Don't be fooled into thinking the Class War is over. We are still here, we still exist, and we are tired of being shat on by the rich. If you have a job, and you have to work for a living, then you are working class. Riots will send a shock wave through the ruling elite, like when the students stormed the Tory HQ last week, which was good to see. We should all rebel like our French and Greek comrades rather than just sit there and take it.
You appear to have ignored what facts I put before you regarding why it's the governments fault, a simple over sight or can't you put forward a point other than it was the bankers. . If it was solely the bankers fault I'm all ears to hearing why so if you could explain that to me and how this meant that the government was spending £4 for every £3 it recieved, thanks in advance.
There really is no other point other than it was the Bankers, and Vulture (venture) Capitalists, who have bled the country dry. Increased public spending, as with Labour, actually stimulates the economy, whereas the Tory cuts are going to sink it altogether. Public spending is a good thing, Labour were doing the right thing. The Government also needs to address the problem of large corporations (inc. banks) who legally commit tax evasion to the tune of 100's of Bilions per yera. It is they who are creaming off the wealth and the reason why the workers are now being made to suffer.
That argument makes no sense what so ever. Public spending is fine if you have the money to pay for it, but we don't. We were spending £4 for every £3 we received. That’s the way to bankcrupcy. I'll agree there is tax avoidance and that need to be reigned in but you are deluded if you think that spending money we don't have indefinately under Labour was the right thing to do. Look at the man who helped put us where we are today, Mr Brown. He doesn't even attend parliment yet he is still an MP, so he is being paid for what equates to nothing at the moment. If he was my MP I would be extremely angry that he isn't doing what he was elected to do. . Your going to have to come up with a better arguement than that to prove it was the bankers fault, all you do is say it's their fault without giving any reason why running a bloated public sector with a £170bn deficit is the sole fault of the bankers. . There are too many people in non jobs in this country, hopefully those in the front line will escape the axe whilst the climate change champions and diversity officers are shown the door.
The thing is, we don't really have a deficit, it just appears that we do on paper, because we bought the banks, and when the banks recover and buy themselves back we will no longer have a deficit. The whole financial crisis arose because of the US mortage and hedge funds markets, which were badly managed, inherently flawed and wide open to exploitation bygreedy and unscrupulous venture capitalists. The so-called deficit is nothing at all to do with Labour spending! Spending stimulates the economy, without it the economy stagnates, which is what will now happen under the Tories.
there are many factors that led us to where we are now, but the whole lot was precipitated by the willingness of american banks to lend huge sums at huge risk. Once they realised that they were staring huge losses in the face they parcelled up the toxic loans and sold them on to gullible financial institutions in europe. Once THAT was revealed, public confidence in banks began to drain away, and the UK led the way in putting together a "confidence" scheme to bolster the ailing finances of the european banking industry. If that hadnt happened we would have been in a far worse position than we are now. Gordon may have been complicit in the sense that his govt allowed banks financial freedoms that it had not previously enjoyed, but it was the banks that overextended themselves, a Labour govt that had no choice but to bail them out, and a Conservative/Liberal coalition that sees fit to take the opportunity of recession to restructure the economy to conform to its own ideological framework.
Bailing out the banks may well have looked expensive, but the returns once the banks are solvent again will be huge, and may well be sufficient to rectify the deficits that we are faced with. The best time to implement efficiencies is in a period of prosperity - that way the so called austerity measures are not driven by panic but by considered planning. Chucking more people on the dole and curtailing public sector spending does nothing to bring back the economy - it is the tactic of hiding in the basement until the forest fire has passed by - you might come out alive but the chances are you will be homeless!
[quote][p][bold]Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thecitygent[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: The harsh reality of a bloated unsustainable public sector is coming to bite us in the bum. . Look at the mess Ireland are in by spending way more than they were bringing in, thankfully people weren't stupid enough (although clearly many were) to vote Gordon Brown back in or we'd we heading for the same place as Ireland. . Wonder if any of the six figure salary earners will be losing their jobs, or are even taking a pay cut, I think we all know the answer to that though.[/p][/quote]I voted for Gordon Brown as he was doing a good job and he actualy saved the world's eceonomy. The savage cuts being made by the Tories are unnecessary and entirely vindictive. They are idealogicaly driven to dismantle the State and to wage war against the Working Class. It is Capitalism and the constant drive for economic growth that are unsustainable. It is NOT Labour's fault that we are in this mess, it is the fault of the Bankers, and the US stock market. There will be riots all across the country by next year.[/p][/quote]Gordon was pretty fond of the banks as they helped him to fund the bloated public sector. What good will riots do? And anyway what is the British working class? This isn't the 50s.[/p][/quote]What is the British working class??!! *ROLLS EYES* Don't be fooled into thinking the Class War is over. We are still here, we still exist, and we are tired of being shat on by the rich. If you have a job, and you have to work for a living, then you are working class. Riots will send a shock wave through the ruling elite, like when the students stormed the Tory HQ last week, which was good to see. We should all rebel like our French and Greek comrades rather than just sit there and take it.[/p][/quote]You appear to have ignored what facts I put before you regarding why it's the governments fault, a simple over sight or can't you put forward a point other than it was the bankers. . If it was solely the bankers fault I'm all ears to hearing why so if you could explain that to me and how this meant that the government was spending £4 for every £3 it recieved, thanks in advance.[/p][/quote]There really is no other point other than it was the Bankers, and Vulture (venture) Capitalists, who have bled the country dry. Increased public spending, as with Labour, actually stimulates the economy, whereas the Tory cuts are going to sink it altogether. Public spending is a good thing, Labour were doing the right thing. The Government also needs to address the problem of large corporations (inc. banks) who legally commit tax evasion to the tune of 100's of Bilions per yera. It is they who are creaming off the wealth and the reason why the workers are now being made to suffer.[/p][/quote]That argument makes no sense what so ever. Public spending is fine if you have the money to pay for it, but we don't. We were spending £4 for every £3 we received. That’s the way to bankcrupcy. I'll agree there is tax avoidance and that need to be reigned in but you are deluded if you think that spending money we don't have indefinately under Labour was the right thing to do. Look at the man who helped put us where we are today, Mr Brown. He doesn't even attend parliment yet he is still an MP, so he is being paid for what equates to nothing at the moment. If he was my MP I would be extremely angry that he isn't doing what he was elected to do. . Your going to have to come up with a better arguement than that to prove it was the bankers fault, all you do is say it's their fault without giving any reason why running a bloated public sector with a £170bn deficit is the sole fault of the bankers. . There are too many people in non jobs in this country, hopefully those in the front line will escape the axe whilst the climate change champions and diversity officers are shown the door.[/p][/quote]The thing is, we don't really have a deficit, it just appears that we do on paper, because we bought the banks, and when the banks recover and buy themselves back we will no longer have a deficit. The whole financial crisis arose because of the US mortage and hedge funds markets, which were badly managed, inherently flawed and wide open to exploitation bygreedy and unscrupulous venture capitalists. The so-called deficit is nothing at all to do with Labour spending! Spending stimulates the economy, without it the economy stagnates, which is what will now happen under the Tories.[/p][/quote]there are many factors that led us to where we are now, but the whole lot was precipitated by the willingness of american banks to lend huge sums at huge risk. Once they realised that they were staring huge losses in the face they parcelled up the toxic loans and sold them on to gullible financial institutions in europe. Once THAT was revealed, public confidence in banks began to drain away, and the UK led the way in putting together a "confidence" scheme to bolster the ailing finances of the european banking industry. If that hadnt happened we would have been in a far worse position than we are now. Gordon may have been complicit in the sense that his govt allowed banks financial freedoms that it had not previously enjoyed, but it was the banks that overextended themselves, a Labour govt that had no choice but to bail them out, and a Conservative/Liberal coalition that sees fit to take the opportunity of recession to restructure the economy to conform to its own ideological framework. Bailing out the banks may well have looked expensive, but the returns once the banks are solvent again will be huge, and may well be sufficient to rectify the deficits that we are faced with. The best time to implement efficiencies is in a period of prosperity - that way the so called austerity measures are not driven by panic but by considered planning. Chucking more people on the dole and curtailing public sector spending does nothing to bring back the economy - it is the tactic of hiding in the basement until the forest fire has passed by - you might come out alive but the chances are you will be homeless! Duke of Odsal
  • Score: 0

3:27pm Tue 23 Nov 10

thecitygent says...

Gordon would have been cutting public expenditure and arguably the money markets would have given the UK a rougher ride if Labour had be re-elected. The class war stuff is amusing, faintly reminiscent of Red Robbo. Anyway we'd better watch out because the North Koreans are coming - I wonder if they are going to export their brand of socialism (although sadly it doesn't work).
Gordon would have been cutting public expenditure and arguably the money markets would have given the UK a rougher ride if Labour had be re-elected. The class war stuff is amusing, faintly reminiscent of Red Robbo. Anyway we'd better watch out because the North Koreans are coming - I wonder if they are going to export their brand of socialism (although sadly it doesn't work). thecitygent
  • Score: 0

6:10pm Tue 23 Nov 10

Windyass says...

Moon on a stick wrote:
I bet you agency staff are more flexible, take less sick leave, have no pensions and don't strike.
.
The council doesn't need more easy life permanent staff it needs to outsource and allow the private sector to deliver more efficient services.
What, like Serco?

Ha ha ha ha
[quote][p][bold]Moon on a stick[/bold] wrote: I bet you agency staff are more flexible, take less sick leave, have no pensions and don't strike. . The council doesn't need more easy life permanent staff it needs to outsource and allow the private sector to deliver more efficient services.[/p][/quote]What, like Serco? Ha ha ha ha Windyass
  • Score: 0

7:33pm Tue 23 Nov 10

gillyd says...

Noone is saying the council should be different and i would have thought you would have had some sympathy.

You of all people should know how the difficulties redundency brings and should not be so unsympathetic towards all the thousands facing it. Juts because you may have been one of the 1st, it does not make it easier for those facing it now.

It is the lower paid staff that work hard and dont abuse their positions that these cuts affect. Not the big wigs at the top taking £1000s punds in bonus and wages.
Noone is saying the council should be different and i would have thought you would have had some sympathy. You of all people should know how the difficulties redundency brings and should not be so unsympathetic towards all the thousands facing it. Juts because you may have been one of the 1st, it does not make it easier for those facing it now. It is the lower paid staff that work hard and dont abuse their positions that these cuts affect. Not the big wigs at the top taking £1000s punds in bonus and wages. gillyd
  • Score: 0

8:25pm Tue 23 Nov 10

Redhat Sly says...

There is absolutely no need for any jobs to be cut.

Why don't the people prove they are all in it together and just take a 20% pay cut?

Better still look at the total amount of money that must be saved. Look at the salary increases since 1999. Cut pay on a scale so that those who have had the largest increases now have the largest cut.
There is absolutely no need for any jobs to be cut. Why don't the people prove they are all in it together and just take a 20% pay cut? Better still look at the total amount of money that must be saved. Look at the salary increases since 1999. Cut pay on a scale so that those who have had the largest increases now have the largest cut. Redhat Sly
  • Score: 0

8:40pm Tue 23 Nov 10

jim75 says...

Wasnt so long ago greenwood was bleating of how it was premature to say a 1000 jobs would go in the council,well true to his word 2,500 are to go.Still you had enough in the coffers to slap yourselves on the back for a celebratory dinner after the EDL protest,priorities eh!
Wasnt so long ago greenwood was bleating of how it was premature to say a 1000 jobs would go in the council,well true to his word 2,500 are to go.Still you had enough in the coffers to slap yourselves on the back for a celebratory dinner after the EDL protest,priorities eh! jim75
  • Score: 0

9:05pm Tue 23 Nov 10

Al Spade says...

Windyass, Bradford says...
6:10pm Tue 23 Nov 10

Moon on a stick wrote:
I bet you agency staff are more flexible, take less sick leave, have no pensions and don't strike.
.
The council doesn't need more easy life permanent staff it needs to outsource and allow the private sector to deliver more efficient services.
What, like Serco?

Ha ha ha ha

The council had no say in the appointment of Serco. The then Labour education secretary, Estelle Morris, insisted that Bradford's education services be outsourced. She resigned her post some months later saying she was "not up to the job". Says it all really. Just for the record I used to work for the education department. When Serco took over I and 50 others were made redundant. Welcome to the real world people.
Windyass, Bradford says... 6:10pm Tue 23 Nov 10 Moon on a stick wrote: I bet you agency staff are more flexible, take less sick leave, have no pensions and don't strike. . The council doesn't need more easy life permanent staff it needs to outsource and allow the private sector to deliver more efficient services. What, like Serco? Ha ha ha ha The council had no say in the appointment of Serco. The then Labour education secretary, Estelle Morris, insisted that Bradford's education services be outsourced. She resigned her post some months later saying she was "not up to the job". Says it all really. Just for the record I used to work for the education department. When Serco took over I and 50 others were made redundant. Welcome to the real world people. Al Spade
  • Score: 0

10:18pm Tue 23 Nov 10

garyb says...

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
Not sure if your a wind up merchant or just a misguided fool.
.
Spending more than we get in via tax is only down to the government of the time.
.
The money spent to bail the out the banks bought up shares to provide an asset therefore further down the line when these are sold the government will get something back. As it stands without pumping more money into the banks we were spending £170 billion more than we were taking in via tax.
.
Thats just the speed we were accruing debt, this does not take into account the debt that is there already. So thats £170 billion on top of a already existing debt.
Take look at the graph regarding national debt as a proportion of gdp

http://www.economics
help.org/blog/uk-eco
nomy/uk-national-deb
t/

It's only in the last 30 years that this country has had a national debt of under it's whole gdp.
By the way over half of those years were under a Labour government believe it or not
[quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: Not sure if your a wind up merchant or just a misguided fool. . Spending more than we get in via tax is only down to the government of the time. . The money spent to bail the out the banks bought up shares to provide an asset therefore further down the line when these are sold the government will get something back. As it stands without pumping more money into the banks we were spending £170 billion more than we were taking in via tax. . Thats just the speed we were accruing debt, this does not take into account the debt that is there already. So thats £170 billion on top of a already existing debt.[/p][/quote]Take look at the graph regarding national debt as a proportion of gdp http://www.economics help.org/blog/uk-eco nomy/uk-national-deb t/ It's only in the last 30 years that this country has had a national debt of under it's whole gdp. By the way over half of those years were under a Labour government believe it or not garyb
  • Score: 0

11:43pm Tue 23 Nov 10

Windyass says...

Al Spade wrote:
Windyass, Bradford says...
6:10pm Tue 23 Nov 10

Moon on a stick wrote:
I bet you agency staff are more flexible, take less sick leave, have no pensions and don't strike.
.
The council doesn't need more easy life permanent staff it needs to outsource and allow the private sector to deliver more efficient services.
What, like Serco?

Ha ha ha ha

The council had no say in the appointment of Serco. The then Labour education secretary, Estelle Morris, insisted that Bradford's education services be outsourced. She resigned her post some months later saying she was "not up to the job". Says it all really. Just for the record I used to work for the education department. When Serco took over I and 50 others were made redundant. Welcome to the real world people.
I fail to see what relevance the council not having a say in the appointment of Serco is.

The argument is that the Public Sector should be privatised. Serco is a private company. Has the privatisation of Education in Bradford been a success?
[quote][p][bold]Al Spade[/bold] wrote: Windyass, Bradford says... 6:10pm Tue 23 Nov 10 Moon on a stick wrote: I bet you agency staff are more flexible, take less sick leave, have no pensions and don't strike. . The council doesn't need more easy life permanent staff it needs to outsource and allow the private sector to deliver more efficient services. What, like Serco? Ha ha ha ha The council had no say in the appointment of Serco. The then Labour education secretary, Estelle Morris, insisted that Bradford's education services be outsourced. She resigned her post some months later saying she was "not up to the job". Says it all really. Just for the record I used to work for the education department. When Serco took over I and 50 others were made redundant. Welcome to the real world people.[/p][/quote]I fail to see what relevance the council not having a say in the appointment of Serco is. The argument is that the Public Sector should be privatised. Serco is a private company. Has the privatisation of Education in Bradford been a success? Windyass
  • Score: 0

12:18am Wed 24 Nov 10

Moon on a stick says...

I didn't say replace all functions with private companies, I said the public sector take less sick leave, generally cost less to employ, are more flexible and don't strike. They're also a **** sight more polite and helpful.
.
I'd sack everyone in regen and put in a private company with targets to regenerate Bradford, engage with business and I'd knock expensive, unnecessary public realm spending on the head and see the money was spent more wisely. I'd also look at regeneration that adds value, putting up more apartments and hotels is not the answer either.
I didn't say replace all functions with private companies, I said the public sector take less sick leave, generally cost less to employ, are more flexible and don't strike. They're also a **** sight more polite and helpful. . I'd sack everyone in regen and put in a private company with targets to regenerate Bradford, engage with business and I'd knock expensive, unnecessary public realm spending on the head and see the money was spent more wisely. I'd also look at regeneration that adds value, putting up more apartments and hotels is not the answer either. Moon on a stick
  • Score: 0

12:19am Wed 24 Nov 10

Moon on a stick says...

Oops "I said the **private** sector take less sick leave, etc etc"
.
With naughty Windy trying to misrepresent my own post I got confused LOL.
Oops "I said the **private** sector take less sick leave, etc etc" . With naughty Windy trying to misrepresent my own post I got confused LOL. Moon on a stick
  • Score: 0

7:23am Wed 24 Nov 10

Windyass says...

Moon on a stick wrote:
Oops "I said the **private** sector take less sick leave, etc etc"
.
With naughty Windy trying to misrepresent my own post I got confused LOL.
How have I misrepresented your post?

My initial post was a response to another poster, who said:

"The council doesn't need more easy life permanent staff it needs to outsource and allow the private sector to deliver more efficient services."

To which I replied, like Serco? To which you replied with waffle about the council not having anything to do with that outsourcing.

How have I misrepresented YOUR post?
[quote][p][bold]Moon on a stick[/bold] wrote: Oops "I said the **private** sector take less sick leave, etc etc" . With naughty Windy trying to misrepresent my own post I got confused LOL.[/p][/quote]How have I misrepresented your post? My initial post was a response to another poster, who said: "The council doesn't need more easy life permanent staff it needs to outsource and allow the private sector to deliver more efficient services." To which I replied, like Serco? To which you replied with waffle about the council not having anything to do with that outsourcing. How have I misrepresented YOUR post? Windyass
  • Score: 0

7:27am Wed 24 Nov 10

concernedandworried says...

lets be clear it isnt just 2000 jobs

these are in addition to the 975 already served with redundancy notices and the 700 jobs not filled

that totals 3675 jobs in 1 year with a further 1500 in the following 2 years

you do the maths

yet they still continue building a lake no one want

well done greenwood, he accused the union have having its head in the sand

wheres he been in the last 10 years and what qualifications as he got to run a £1billion pound "business" he is an ex union convenor note ex
lets be clear it isnt just 2000 jobs these are in addition to the 975 already served with redundancy notices and the 700 jobs not filled that totals 3675 jobs in 1 year with a further 1500 in the following 2 years you do the maths yet they still continue building a lake no one want well done greenwood, he accused the union have having its head in the sand wheres he been in the last 10 years and what qualifications as he got to run a £1billion pound "business" he is an ex union convenor note ex concernedandworried
  • Score: 0

12:58pm Thu 25 Nov 10

Waterloo1815 says...

Moon on a stick wrote:
I didn't say replace all functions with private companies, I said the public sector take less sick leave, generally cost less to employ, are more flexible and don't strike. They're also a **** sight more polite and helpful. . I'd sack everyone in regen and put in a private company with targets to regenerate Bradford, engage with business and I'd knock expensive, unnecessary public realm spending on the head and see the money was spent more wisely. I'd also look at regeneration that adds value, putting up more apartments and hotels is not the answer either.
You do have point about private companies being more efficient but not about their employees being cheaper to employ. Quite the opposite in-fact they cost more as a rule but that is the big difference.
.
All the good stuff is in the private sector whilst all the rubbish that can’t get jobs in the private sector sinks to the bottom and ends up working for councils. Then there is the public sector mentality and culture that makes the problem even worse. Is it no wonder we end up with overstaffed, underperforming public services?
[quote][p][bold]Moon on a stick[/bold] wrote: I didn't say replace all functions with private companies, I said the public sector take less sick leave, generally cost less to employ, are more flexible and don't strike. They're also a **** sight more polite and helpful. . I'd sack everyone in regen and put in a private company with targets to regenerate Bradford, engage with business and I'd knock expensive, unnecessary public realm spending on the head and see the money was spent more wisely. I'd also look at regeneration that adds value, putting up more apartments and hotels is not the answer either.[/p][/quote]You do have point about private companies being more efficient but not about their employees being cheaper to employ. Quite the opposite in-fact they cost more as a rule but that is the big difference. . All the good stuff is in the private sector whilst all the rubbish that can’t get jobs in the private sector sinks to the bottom and ends up working for councils. Then there is the public sector mentality and culture that makes the problem even worse. Is it no wonder we end up with overstaffed, underperforming public services? Waterloo1815
  • Score: 0

1:03pm Thu 25 Nov 10

Waterloo1815 says...

You do have point about private companies being more efficient but not about their employees being cheaper to employ. Quite the opposite in-fact they cost more as a rule but that is the big difference.
.
All the good stuff is in the private sector whilst all the rubbish that can’t get jobs in the private sector sinks to the bottom and ends up working for councils. Then there is the public sector mentality and culture that makes the problem even worse. Is it no wonder we end up with overstaffed, underperforming public services?
You do have point about private companies being more efficient but not about their employees being cheaper to employ. Quite the opposite in-fact they cost more as a rule but that is the big difference. . All the good stuff is in the private sector whilst all the rubbish that can’t get jobs in the private sector sinks to the bottom and ends up working for councils. Then there is the public sector mentality and culture that makes the problem even worse. Is it no wonder we end up with overstaffed, underperforming public services? Waterloo1815
  • Score: 0

1:04pm Thu 25 Nov 10

Waterloo1815 says...

You do have point about private companies being more efficient but not about their employees being cheaper to employ. Quite the opposite in-fact they cost more as a rule but that is the big difference.
.
All the good stuff is in the private sector whilst all the rubbish that can’t get jobs in the private sector sinks to the bottom and ends up working for councils. Then there is the public sector mentality and culture that makes the problem even worse. Is it no wonder we end up with overstaffed, underperforming public services?
You do have point about private companies being more efficient but not about their employees being cheaper to employ. Quite the opposite in-fact they cost more as a rule but that is the big difference. . All the good stuff is in the private sector whilst all the rubbish that can’t get jobs in the private sector sinks to the bottom and ends up working for councils. Then there is the public sector mentality and culture that makes the problem even worse. Is it no wonder we end up with overstaffed, underperforming public services? Waterloo1815
  • Score: 0

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