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Sports Minister sparks Odsal fury
6:43am Monday 10th December 2007
Comments (156) Have your say »
Sports Minister Gerry Sutcliffe has sparked controversy by describing a key component of the Odsal Sports Village plan as "complete folly".
In a letter to a constituent, the Bradford South MP launched a scathing attack on plans to sell off Horsfall Playing Fields for housing to fund the Odsal redevelopment, saying the proposed sale was unrealistic.
He said the National Playing Fields Association would not sanction it and there would still be a £12 million funding shortfall, adding that the plans for Odsal appeared to change every few weeks.
But the Labour MP's views have drawn strong criticism from Peter Hood, chairman of the Bradford Bulls, and Councillor Andrew Mallinson, regeneration chief for the Tory-led Council.
They say a home-grown MP with Mr Sutcliffe's high profile as Sports Minister should be supporting a plan that could bring social and sporting benefits to the district.
In the letter, Mr Sutcliffe said: "I am concerned Bradford Council appears to be bereft of ideas about how to make any progress.
"Their insistence that the redevelopment of Odsal be dependent upon the sale of Horsfall Playing Fields for housing is complete folly.
"The National Playing Fields Association have made it clear they will not sanction the sale as the plans for Odsal do not provide the necessary level and scope of sporting facility."
Mr Hood, who represents the Bulls on the working group set up to spearhead the scheme, said: "Gerry Sutcliffe has expressed some views in this correspondence that I find somewhat puzzling. I would expect the MP to be 110 per cent supportive of the Odsal scheme."
He said he understood the Playing Fields Association did not have the final say on the sale of Horsfall and added the plan was not dependent on any individual sale of a Council asset.
Mr Hood said: "Gerry Sutcliffe also speaks about a £12m shortfall - as if such a shortfall actually exists.
"More capital receipts have been identified that eliminate the shortfall.
"New money has been sourced from, for example, Bradford College, Yorkshire Forward and other grants, worth a few million, identified by Jane Glaister at the Council.
"The capital funding is sorted out, but how we are going to fund the initial building work will be discussed over the next few weeks.
"We would look to involve a commercial developer that would take a commercial risk alongside the Bradford Bulls.
"I understand that Gerry Sutcliffe has also implied that the plans for Odsal appear to change every few weeks. This has been a process, not of change every week, but gradual refinement as things are integrated."
Councillor Mallinson said: "It's disappointing that the Sports Minister has taken such a negative stance because this scheme, with its sports content, lifts the district to another level.
"Anyone can stand back and criticise, but where is the commitment from the Sports Minister and the Government to support this complex?"
Don Earley, deputy chief executive of Fields in Trust, the operating name for the National Playing Fields Association, said: "They are talking about selling community playing fields of 20 acres to fund the Odsal scheme and that is too much of a loss.
"We made grant aid available 70 years ago that helped to bring Horsfall Playing Fields into use as community playing fields and the Council undertook at that time, as minuted by the old corporation, that that site should remain fields effective in perpetuity.
"We have a contract with them whereby our consent is needed for them to sell the Horsfall. Their proposals don't meet with our approval at the moment."
Mr Sutcliffe responded to the criticism today by saying: "The point is they can't sell off the Horsfall site because they are not offering an adequate or better replacement.
"They have got to be more realistic about what the outcome is going to be. I want to see Odsal redeveloped and have wanted it done for the last 30 years. As it stands at the moment, I can't see it coming to fruition."
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Your Say YourBradford Telegraph and Argus
John Kelly, Bratfud says...
8:26am Mon 10 Dec 07
John Kelly, Bratfud says...
8:26am Mon 10 Dec 07
John Kelly, Bratfud says...
8:26am Mon 10 Dec 07
LeagueJunkie, Lost says...
8:45am Mon 10 Dec 07
LeagueJunkie, Lost says...
8:45am Mon 10 Dec 07
LeagueJunkie, Lost says...
8:45am Mon 10 Dec 07
LeagueJunkie, Lost says...
8:45am Mon 10 Dec 07
T, Queensbury says...
10:30am Mon 10 Dec 07
Bradford lacks even basic facilities like shops so worrying about sports pipe dreams is just a distraction.
T, Queensbury says...
10:30am Mon 10 Dec 07
Bradford lacks even basic facilities like shops so worrying about sports pipe dreams is just a distraction.
T, Queensbury says...
10:30am Mon 10 Dec 07
Bradford lacks even basic facilities like shops so worrying about sports pipe dreams is just a distraction.
T, Queensbury says...
10:30am Mon 10 Dec 07
Bradford lacks even basic facilities like shops so worrying about sports pipe dreams is just a distraction.
Devilsadvokat, Manningham says...
10:44am Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat, Manningham says...
10:44am Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat, Manningham says...
10:44am Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat, Manningham says...
10:44am Mon 10 Dec 07
albion, west riding says...
10:46am Mon 10 Dec 07
If the stadium development had gone ahead after the superdome farce, we could have had years of rugby in a setting to be proud of, years of top event stock cars and speedway(the grand prix for example is a former odsal event, now at Cardiff, bringing in around 50,000 spectators and shown worldwide on tv)and the chance to become a venue for other one off events and concerts.
It is however an indication of what people have come to expect(those who wont have any critical remarks said about Bradford and its council, please take note).
albion, west riding says...
10:46am Mon 10 Dec 07
If the stadium development had gone ahead after the superdome farce, we could have had years of rugby in a setting to be proud of, years of top event stock cars and speedway(the grand prix for example is a former odsal event, now at Cardiff, bringing in around 50,000 spectators and shown worldwide on tv)and the chance to become a venue for other one off events and concerts.
It is however an indication of what people have come to expect(those who wont have any critical remarks said about Bradford and its council, please take note).
albion, west riding says...
10:46am Mon 10 Dec 07
If the stadium development had gone ahead after the superdome farce, we could have had years of rugby in a setting to be proud of, years of top event stock cars and speedway(the grand prix for example is a former odsal event, now at Cardiff, bringing in around 50,000 spectators and shown worldwide on tv)and the chance to become a venue for other one off events and concerts.
It is however an indication of what people have come to expect(those who wont have any critical remarks said about Bradford and its council, please take note).
albion, west riding says...
10:46am Mon 10 Dec 07
If the stadium development had gone ahead after the superdome farce, we could have had years of rugby in a setting to be proud of, years of top event stock cars and speedway(the grand prix for example is a former odsal event, now at Cardiff, bringing in around 50,000 spectators and shown worldwide on tv)and the chance to become a venue for other one off events and concerts.
It is however an indication of what people have come to expect(those who wont have any critical remarks said about Bradford and its council, please take note).
Mick De Bull, Odsal says...
11:11am Mon 10 Dec 07
Mick De Bull, Odsal says...
11:11am Mon 10 Dec 07
Mick De Bull, Odsal says...
11:11am Mon 10 Dec 07
Mick De Bull, Odsal says...
11:11am Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat, Manningham says...
11:23am Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat, Manningham says...
11:23am Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat, Manningham says...
11:23am Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat, Manningham says...
11:23am Mon 10 Dec 07
albion, west riding says...
11:27am Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat wrote:This time it will be the tyres and petrol!
Mick de bull u can leave your car in my drive, no need to change allegiance because of a couple of radios.
albion, west riding says...
11:27am Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat wrote:This time it will be the tyres and petrol!
Mick de bull u can leave your car in my drive, no need to change allegiance because of a couple of radios.
albion, west riding says...
11:27am Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat wrote:This time it will be the tyres and petrol!
Mick de bull u can leave your car in my drive, no need to change allegiance because of a couple of radios.
albion, west riding says...
11:27am Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat wrote:This time it will be the tyres and petrol!
Mick de bull u can leave your car in my drive, no need to change allegiance because of a couple of radios.
Dan155, Bradford says...
11:48am Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat wrote:I don't know where you get that stastic from. City average over 13,000 and the Bulls average over 11,000.
Odsal the once wembley of the north should be renamed " the pit of the north". Odsal has had more plans submitted than the broadway joke. Just demolish it and bulls can ground share with the bantams. Average crowd is only 8000 so why build a new stadium.
Dan155, Bradford says...
11:48am Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat wrote:I don't know where you get that stastic from. City average over 13,000 and the Bulls average over 11,000.
Odsal the once wembley of the north should be renamed " the pit of the north". Odsal has had more plans submitted than the broadway joke. Just demolish it and bulls can ground share with the bantams. Average crowd is only 8000 so why build a new stadium.
Dan155, Bradford says...
11:48am Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat wrote:I don't know where you get that stastic from. City average over 13,000 and the Bulls average over 11,000.
Odsal the once wembley of the north should be renamed " the pit of the north". Odsal has had more plans submitted than the broadway joke. Just demolish it and bulls can ground share with the bantams. Average crowd is only 8000 so why build a new stadium.
Dan155, Bradford says...
11:48am Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat wrote:I don't know where you get that stastic from. City average over 13,000 and the Bulls average over 11,000.
Odsal the once wembley of the north should be renamed " the pit of the north". Odsal has had more plans submitted than the broadway joke. Just demolish it and bulls can ground share with the bantams. Average crowd is only 8000 so why build a new stadium.
Devilsadvokat, Manningham says...
11:48am Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat, Manningham says...
11:48am Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat, Manningham says...
11:48am Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat, Manningham says...
11:48am Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat, Manningham says...
11:50am Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat, Manningham says...
11:50am Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat, Manningham says...
11:50am Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat, Manningham says...
11:50am Mon 10 Dec 07
albion, west riding says...
12:29pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat wrote:Oh just shut up.
Bulls dont average 11000 fella, the only game that gets them a decent crowd is leeds. City were averaging less than 7000 until they gave away season tickets.
albion, west riding says...
12:29pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat wrote:Oh just shut up.
Bulls dont average 11000 fella, the only game that gets them a decent crowd is leeds. City were averaging less than 7000 until they gave away season tickets.
albion, west riding says...
12:29pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat wrote:Oh just shut up.
Bulls dont average 11000 fella, the only game that gets them a decent crowd is leeds. City were averaging less than 7000 until they gave away season tickets.
albion, west riding says...
12:29pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat wrote:Oh just shut up.
Bulls dont average 11000 fella, the only game that gets them a decent crowd is leeds. City were averaging less than 7000 until they gave away season tickets.
Philip Simpson, East Coast says...
12:32pm Mon 10 Dec 07
vers and truly backs invention to suit all traits.We used to say 'Where there's a will,there's a way'.....Is there either anymore in this city ?...How sad when considered along side the achievements of our forefathers who built it with loving pride and considerable ingenuity.What,indee
d,have the present tenures of such offices got to offer...How very,very sad the plight from those in whome we trust.
Philip Simpson, East Coast says...
12:32pm Mon 10 Dec 07
vers and truly backs invention to suit all traits.We used to say 'Where there's a will,there's a way'.....Is there either anymore in this city ?...How sad when considered along side the achievements of our forefathers who built it with loving pride and considerable ingenuity.What,indee
d,have the present tenures of such offices got to offer...How very,very sad the plight from those in whome we trust.
Philip Simpson, East Coast says...
12:32pm Mon 10 Dec 07
vers and truly backs invention to suit all traits.We used to say 'Where there's a will,there's a way'.....Is there either anymore in this city ?...How sad when considered along side the achievements of our forefathers who built it with loving pride and considerable ingenuity.What,indee
d,have the present tenures of such offices got to offer...How very,very sad the plight from those in whome we trust.
Philip Simpson, East Coast says...
12:32pm Mon 10 Dec 07
vers and truly backs invention to suit all traits.We used to say 'Where there's a will,there's a way'.....Is there either anymore in this city ?...How sad when considered along side the achievements of our forefathers who built it with loving pride and considerable ingenuity.What,indee
d,have the present tenures of such offices got to offer...How very,very sad the plight from those in whome we trust.
geoffinnes, Bingley says...
12:36pm Mon 10 Dec 07
geoffinnes, Bingley says...
12:36pm Mon 10 Dec 07
geoffinnes, Bingley says...
12:36pm Mon 10 Dec 07
geoffinnes, Bingley says...
12:36pm Mon 10 Dec 07
cibasteve, bratfud says...
12:43pm Mon 10 Dec 07
It'll never happen.
So let's move the Bulls to VP and have a great community stadium in the heart of the one place in Bradford getting money thrown at it.
Manningham Regeneration will ensure a great place for all and as for the car parking issue what are the Street Angels doing on a weekend?
cibasteve, bratfud says...
12:43pm Mon 10 Dec 07
It'll never happen.
So let's move the Bulls to VP and have a great community stadium in the heart of the one place in Bradford getting money thrown at it.
Manningham Regeneration will ensure a great place for all and as for the car parking issue what are the Street Angels doing on a weekend?
cibasteve, bratfud says...
12:43pm Mon 10 Dec 07
It'll never happen.
So let's move the Bulls to VP and have a great community stadium in the heart of the one place in Bradford getting money thrown at it.
Manningham Regeneration will ensure a great place for all and as for the car parking issue what are the Street Angels doing on a weekend?
cibasteve, bratfud says...
12:43pm Mon 10 Dec 07
It'll never happen.
So let's move the Bulls to VP and have a great community stadium in the heart of the one place in Bradford getting money thrown at it.
Manningham Regeneration will ensure a great place for all and as for the car parking issue what are the Street Angels doing on a weekend?
Dan155, Bradford says...
1:12pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat wrote:Wrong on both counts, city were averaging over 8,000 until they offered reduced price season tickets. And upon checking the statistics, the Bulls actually average closer to 12,000, do a check on both clubs official websites and the Superleague website if you like.
Bulls dont average 11000 fella, the only game that gets them a decent crowd is leeds. City were averaging less than 7000 until they gave away season tickets.
Dan155, Bradford says...
1:12pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat wrote:Wrong on both counts, city were averaging over 8,000 until they offered reduced price season tickets. And upon checking the statistics, the Bulls actually average closer to 12,000, do a check on both clubs official websites and the Superleague website if you like.
Bulls dont average 11000 fella, the only game that gets them a decent crowd is leeds. City were averaging less than 7000 until they gave away season tickets.
Dan155, Bradford says...
1:12pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat wrote:Wrong on both counts, city were averaging over 8,000 until they offered reduced price season tickets. And upon checking the statistics, the Bulls actually average closer to 12,000, do a check on both clubs official websites and the Superleague website if you like.
Bulls dont average 11000 fella, the only game that gets them a decent crowd is leeds. City were averaging less than 7000 until they gave away season tickets.
Dan155, Bradford says...
1:12pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat wrote:Wrong on both counts, city were averaging over 8,000 until they offered reduced price season tickets. And upon checking the statistics, the Bulls actually average closer to 12,000, do a check on both clubs official websites and the Superleague website if you like.
Bulls dont average 11000 fella, the only game that gets them a decent crowd is leeds. City were averaging less than 7000 until they gave away season tickets.
Kevin, Bradford says...
1:30pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Kevin, Bradford says...
1:30pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Kevin, Bradford says...
1:30pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Kevin, Bradford says...
1:30pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Kevin, Bradford says...
1:31pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Kevin, Bradford says...
1:31pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Kevin, Bradford says...
1:31pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Kevin, Bradford says...
1:31pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat, Manningham says...
2:24pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat, Manningham says...
2:24pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat, Manningham says...
2:24pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat, Manningham says...
2:24pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Brian, Wibsey says...
2:29pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat wrote:This is about the 3rd utterly groundless post you've made today. Rugby union is more or less anonymous in the 'northern towns'.
even if they average that much, whats the point building one that holds 25,000. Rugby union since going professional has become more popular even in northern towns.
Brian, Wibsey says...
2:29pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat wrote:This is about the 3rd utterly groundless post you've made today. Rugby union is more or less anonymous in the 'northern towns'.
even if they average that much, whats the point building one that holds 25,000. Rugby union since going professional has become more popular even in northern towns.
Brian, Wibsey says...
2:29pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat wrote:This is about the 3rd utterly groundless post you've made today. Rugby union is more or less anonymous in the 'northern towns'.
even if they average that much, whats the point building one that holds 25,000. Rugby union since going professional has become more popular even in northern towns.
Brian, Wibsey says...
2:29pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat wrote:This is about the 3rd utterly groundless post you've made today. Rugby union is more or less anonymous in the 'northern towns'.
even if they average that much, whats the point building one that holds 25,000. Rugby union since going professional has become more popular even in northern towns.
Devilsadvokat, Manningham says...
2:35pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat, Manningham says...
2:35pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat, Manningham says...
2:35pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat, Manningham says...
2:35pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Brian, Wibsey says...
2:38pm Mon 10 Dec 07
The reason Bradford hasn't got a stadium worthy of the greatest RL team in the world or a shopping centre in the middle of it's shopping district is amply demonstrated by Gerry's comments and those on this board. A total lack of imagination and courage poorly disguised behind easy cynicism and fake realism.
Would Manchester people be on a board like this chorussing, 'It'll never happen?' NO - they'd be shouting at Gerry Sutcliffe to get his finger out and make it happen or stand down and let someone else try and lift Bradford out of this 'won't happen, why try' attitude which has left this once proud city in the desperate state it is now in.
Brian, Wibsey says...
2:38pm Mon 10 Dec 07
The reason Bradford hasn't got a stadium worthy of the greatest RL team in the world or a shopping centre in the middle of it's shopping district is amply demonstrated by Gerry's comments and those on this board. A total lack of imagination and courage poorly disguised behind easy cynicism and fake realism.
Would Manchester people be on a board like this chorussing, 'It'll never happen?' NO - they'd be shouting at Gerry Sutcliffe to get his finger out and make it happen or stand down and let someone else try and lift Bradford out of this 'won't happen, why try' attitude which has left this once proud city in the desperate state it is now in.
Brian, Wibsey says...
2:38pm Mon 10 Dec 07
The reason Bradford hasn't got a stadium worthy of the greatest RL team in the world or a shopping centre in the middle of it's shopping district is amply demonstrated by Gerry's comments and those on this board. A total lack of imagination and courage poorly disguised behind easy cynicism and fake realism.
Would Manchester people be on a board like this chorussing, 'It'll never happen?' NO - they'd be shouting at Gerry Sutcliffe to get his finger out and make it happen or stand down and let someone else try and lift Bradford out of this 'won't happen, why try' attitude which has left this once proud city in the desperate state it is now in.
Brian, Wibsey says...
2:38pm Mon 10 Dec 07
The reason Bradford hasn't got a stadium worthy of the greatest RL team in the world or a shopping centre in the middle of it's shopping district is amply demonstrated by Gerry's comments and those on this board. A total lack of imagination and courage poorly disguised behind easy cynicism and fake realism.
Would Manchester people be on a board like this chorussing, 'It'll never happen?' NO - they'd be shouting at Gerry Sutcliffe to get his finger out and make it happen or stand down and let someone else try and lift Bradford out of this 'won't happen, why try' attitude which has left this once proud city in the desperate state it is now in.
Brian, Wibsey says...
2:41pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat wrote:Like I said, anonymous.
SALE SHARKS? Leeds carnegie, newcastle falcons..i don't think so fella.
Brian, Wibsey says...
2:41pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat wrote:Like I said, anonymous.
SALE SHARKS? Leeds carnegie, newcastle falcons..i don't think so fella.
Brian, Wibsey says...
2:41pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat wrote:Like I said, anonymous.
SALE SHARKS? Leeds carnegie, newcastle falcons..i don't think so fella.
Brian, Wibsey says...
2:41pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat wrote:Like I said, anonymous.
SALE SHARKS? Leeds carnegie, newcastle falcons..i don't think so fella.
Devilsadvokat, Manningham says...
2:53pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat, Manningham says...
2:53pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat, Manningham says...
2:53pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat, Manningham says...
2:53pm Mon 10 Dec 07
big fella, bradford says...
2:58pm Mon 10 Dec 07
big fella, bradford says...
2:58pm Mon 10 Dec 07
big fella, bradford says...
2:58pm Mon 10 Dec 07
big fella, bradford says...
2:58pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Brian, Wibsey says...
2:59pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Brian, Wibsey says...
2:59pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Brian, Wibsey says...
2:59pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Brian, Wibsey says...
2:59pm Mon 10 Dec 07
albion, west riding says...
3:02pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat wrote:How many top league guys have gone to union? i can think of three or four backs, who in most cases were past their best and cost more money than they were worth.
Since going professional union has bigger average gates now. Also top league guys are moving to union. league is going to go downhill, it had a stay of execution when they went to making it summer rugby but that initial optimism is soon beginning to shown signs of cracking up. Bulls will be better of downscaling there plan or it will be another white elephant, unless they introduce other sports eg athletics and speedway into the plans.
albion, west riding says...
3:02pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat wrote:How many top league guys have gone to union? i can think of three or four backs, who in most cases were past their best and cost more money than they were worth.
Since going professional union has bigger average gates now. Also top league guys are moving to union. league is going to go downhill, it had a stay of execution when they went to making it summer rugby but that initial optimism is soon beginning to shown signs of cracking up. Bulls will be better of downscaling there plan or it will be another white elephant, unless they introduce other sports eg athletics and speedway into the plans.
albion, west riding says...
3:02pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat wrote:How many top league guys have gone to union? i can think of three or four backs, who in most cases were past their best and cost more money than they were worth.
Since going professional union has bigger average gates now. Also top league guys are moving to union. league is going to go downhill, it had a stay of execution when they went to making it summer rugby but that initial optimism is soon beginning to shown signs of cracking up. Bulls will be better of downscaling there plan or it will be another white elephant, unless they introduce other sports eg athletics and speedway into the plans.
albion, west riding says...
3:02pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat wrote:How many top league guys have gone to union? i can think of three or four backs, who in most cases were past their best and cost more money than they were worth.
Since going professional union has bigger average gates now. Also top league guys are moving to union. league is going to go downhill, it had a stay of execution when they went to making it summer rugby but that initial optimism is soon beginning to shown signs of cracking up. Bulls will be better of downscaling there plan or it will be another white elephant, unless they introduce other sports eg athletics and speedway into the plans.
Dan155, Bradford says...
3:04pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat wrote:Sale Sharks struggle to break the 10,000 barrier, Leeds Carnaegie struggle to break the 5,000 barrier, Newcastle rarely get more than 7-8,000. Union has always been better supported in international competitions, but IMO League is better supported at club level with the more passionate fans, unlike the kick & clap fans who wet themselves at the thought of supporters actually chanting and making noise.
Since going professional union has bigger average gates now. Also top league guys are moving to union. league is going to go downhill, it had a stay of execution when they went to making it summer rugby but that initial optimism is soon beginning to shown signs of cracking up. Bulls will be better of downscaling there plan or it will be another white elephant, unless they introduce other sports eg athletics and speedway into the plans.
Dan155, Bradford says...
3:04pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat wrote:Sale Sharks struggle to break the 10,000 barrier, Leeds Carnaegie struggle to break the 5,000 barrier, Newcastle rarely get more than 7-8,000. Union has always been better supported in international competitions, but IMO League is better supported at club level with the more passionate fans, unlike the kick & clap fans who wet themselves at the thought of supporters actually chanting and making noise.
Since going professional union has bigger average gates now. Also top league guys are moving to union. league is going to go downhill, it had a stay of execution when they went to making it summer rugby but that initial optimism is soon beginning to shown signs of cracking up. Bulls will be better of downscaling there plan or it will be another white elephant, unless they introduce other sports eg athletics and speedway into the plans.
Dan155, Bradford says...
3:04pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat wrote:Sale Sharks struggle to break the 10,000 barrier, Leeds Carnaegie struggle to break the 5,000 barrier, Newcastle rarely get more than 7-8,000. Union has always been better supported in international competitions, but IMO League is better supported at club level with the more passionate fans, unlike the kick & clap fans who wet themselves at the thought of supporters actually chanting and making noise.
Since going professional union has bigger average gates now. Also top league guys are moving to union. league is going to go downhill, it had a stay of execution when they went to making it summer rugby but that initial optimism is soon beginning to shown signs of cracking up. Bulls will be better of downscaling there plan or it will be another white elephant, unless they introduce other sports eg athletics and speedway into the plans.
Dan155, Bradford says...
3:04pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat wrote:Sale Sharks struggle to break the 10,000 barrier, Leeds Carnaegie struggle to break the 5,000 barrier, Newcastle rarely get more than 7-8,000. Union has always been better supported in international competitions, but IMO League is better supported at club level with the more passionate fans, unlike the kick & clap fans who wet themselves at the thought of supporters actually chanting and making noise.
Since going professional union has bigger average gates now. Also top league guys are moving to union. league is going to go downhill, it had a stay of execution when they went to making it summer rugby but that initial optimism is soon beginning to shown signs of cracking up. Bulls will be better of downscaling there plan or it will be another white elephant, unless they introduce other sports eg athletics and speedway into the plans.
fields forever, bradford says...
3:19pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Well done Gerry Sutcliffe .
fields forever, bradford says...
3:19pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Well done Gerry Sutcliffe .
fields forever, bradford says...
3:19pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Well done Gerry Sutcliffe .
fields forever, bradford says...
3:19pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Well done Gerry Sutcliffe .
andy, bradford says...
4:14pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat wrote:how many pints have you had
Loads of city fans leave their cars all oevr manningham without nay problems, u get that anywhere. i go to anfield as i ma a seaso nticket holder nad there are kids asking for a quid to loo kafter your car, and its a quid well spent, as if you dont there will be more than a broken window t odeal with.
andy, bradford says...
4:14pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat wrote:how many pints have you had
Loads of city fans leave their cars all oevr manningham without nay problems, u get that anywhere. i go to anfield as i ma a seaso nticket holder nad there are kids asking for a quid to loo kafter your car, and its a quid well spent, as if you dont there will be more than a broken window t odeal with.
andy, bradford says...
4:14pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat wrote:how many pints have you had
Loads of city fans leave their cars all oevr manningham without nay problems, u get that anywhere. i go to anfield as i ma a seaso nticket holder nad there are kids asking for a quid to loo kafter your car, and its a quid well spent, as if you dont there will be more than a broken window t odeal with.
andy, bradford says...
4:14pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat wrote:how many pints have you had
Loads of city fans leave their cars all oevr manningham without nay problems, u get that anywhere. i go to anfield as i ma a seaso nticket holder nad there are kids asking for a quid to loo kafter your car, and its a quid well spent, as if you dont there will be more than a broken window t odeal with.
andy, bradford says...
4:18pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat wrote:how many pints have you had
Loads of city fans leave their cars all oevr manningham without nay problems, u get that anywhere. i go to anfield as i ma a seaso nticket holder nad there are kids asking for a quid to loo kafter your car, and its a quid well spent, as if you dont there will be more than a broken window t odeal with.
andy, bradford says...
4:18pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat wrote:how many pints have you had
Loads of city fans leave their cars all oevr manningham without nay problems, u get that anywhere. i go to anfield as i ma a seaso nticket holder nad there are kids asking for a quid to loo kafter your car, and its a quid well spent, as if you dont there will be more than a broken window t odeal with.
andy, bradford says...
4:18pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat wrote:how many pints have you had
Loads of city fans leave their cars all oevr manningham without nay problems, u get that anywhere. i go to anfield as i ma a seaso nticket holder nad there are kids asking for a quid to loo kafter your car, and its a quid well spent, as if you dont there will be more than a broken window t odeal with.
andy, bradford says...
4:18pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Devilsadvokat wrote:how many pints have you had
Loads of city fans leave their cars all oevr manningham without nay problems, u get that anywhere. i go to anfield as i ma a seaso nticket holder nad there are kids asking for a quid to loo kafter your car, and its a quid well spent, as if you dont there will be more than a broken window t odeal with.
Brian, Wibsey says...
4:23pm Mon 10 Dec 07
fields forever wrote:Yeah, fantastic news for the whole of South Bradford. Manchester has the MEN, Old Trafford and City of Manchester Stadium and we have a field. Not only that, a field that is rented out to a professional football club with 300 fans.
At last, a Government Minister that speaks sense. And has the commonsence to help protect local field for local people, Well done Gerry Sutcliffe .
Brian, Wibsey says...
4:23pm Mon 10 Dec 07
fields forever wrote:Yeah, fantastic news for the whole of South Bradford. Manchester has the MEN, Old Trafford and City of Manchester Stadium and we have a field. Not only that, a field that is rented out to a professional football club with 300 fans.
At last, a Government Minister that speaks sense. And has the commonsence to help protect local field for local people, Well done Gerry Sutcliffe .
Brian, Wibsey says...
4:23pm Mon 10 Dec 07
fields forever wrote:Yeah, fantastic news for the whole of South Bradford. Manchester has the MEN, Old Trafford and City of Manchester Stadium and we have a field. Not only that, a field that is rented out to a professional football club with 300 fans.
At last, a Government Minister that speaks sense. And has the commonsence to help protect local field for local people, Well done Gerry Sutcliffe .
Brian, Wibsey says...
4:23pm Mon 10 Dec 07
fields forever wrote:Yeah, fantastic news for the whole of South Bradford. Manchester has the MEN, Old Trafford and City of Manchester Stadium and we have a field. Not only that, a field that is rented out to a professional football club with 300 fans.
At last, a Government Minister that speaks sense. And has the commonsence to help protect local field for local people, Well done Gerry Sutcliffe .
CJA, Bradford says...
5:48pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Brian wrote:With the greatest of respects Horsfall happens to be a much used athletics facility. At the moment the plans for Odsal are a 100m indoor track. And any outdoor track built will only have 6 lanes which means it cannot be used for competition purposes.
fields forever wrote: At last, a Government Minister that speaks sense. And has the commonsence to help protect local field for local people, Well done Gerry Sutcliffe .Yeah, fantastic news for the whole of South Bradford. Manchester has the MEN, Old Trafford and City of Manchester Stadium and we have a field. Not only that, a field that is rented out to a professional football club with 300 fans.
That's why the playing fields association is against it.
CJA, Bradford says...
5:48pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Brian wrote:With the greatest of respects Horsfall happens to be a much used athletics facility. At the moment the plans for Odsal are a 100m indoor track. And any outdoor track built will only have 6 lanes which means it cannot be used for competition purposes.
fields forever wrote: At last, a Government Minister that speaks sense. And has the commonsence to help protect local field for local people, Well done Gerry Sutcliffe .Yeah, fantastic news for the whole of South Bradford. Manchester has the MEN, Old Trafford and City of Manchester Stadium and we have a field. Not only that, a field that is rented out to a professional football club with 300 fans.
That's why the playing fields association is against it.
CJA, Bradford says...
5:48pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Brian wrote:With the greatest of respects Horsfall happens to be a much used athletics facility. At the moment the plans for Odsal are a 100m indoor track. And any outdoor track built will only have 6 lanes which means it cannot be used for competition purposes.
fields forever wrote: At last, a Government Minister that speaks sense. And has the commonsence to help protect local field for local people, Well done Gerry Sutcliffe .Yeah, fantastic news for the whole of South Bradford. Manchester has the MEN, Old Trafford and City of Manchester Stadium and we have a field. Not only that, a field that is rented out to a professional football club with 300 fans.
That's why the playing fields association is against it.
CJA, Bradford says...
5:48pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Brian wrote:With the greatest of respects Horsfall happens to be a much used athletics facility. At the moment the plans for Odsal are a 100m indoor track. And any outdoor track built will only have 6 lanes which means it cannot be used for competition purposes.
fields forever wrote: At last, a Government Minister that speaks sense. And has the commonsence to help protect local field for local people, Well done Gerry Sutcliffe .Yeah, fantastic news for the whole of South Bradford. Manchester has the MEN, Old Trafford and City of Manchester Stadium and we have a field. Not only that, a field that is rented out to a professional football club with 300 fans.
That's why the playing fields association is against it.
Brian, Wibsey says...
6:02pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Brian, Wibsey says...
6:02pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Brian, Wibsey says...
6:02pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Brian, Wibsey says...
6:02pm Mon 10 Dec 07
CJA, Bradford says...
6:21pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Brian wrote:Brian the fact that the Bulls and Bradford Council don't seem to understand the rules of sport and proposed an athletic facility which can't be used for competition - says alot about this scheme.
Surely to goodness those issues can be ironed out. Apparently the site runs down to the motorway so there must be room for two more lanes for a running track
It's not being built for sport - It's being built for leisure and they are two different things.
That's why Bradford doesn't have true sport facilities.
CJA, Bradford says...
6:21pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Brian wrote:Brian the fact that the Bulls and Bradford Council don't seem to understand the rules of sport and proposed an athletic facility which can't be used for competition - says alot about this scheme.
Surely to goodness those issues can be ironed out. Apparently the site runs down to the motorway so there must be room for two more lanes for a running track
It's not being built for sport - It's being built for leisure and they are two different things.
That's why Bradford doesn't have true sport facilities.
CJA, Bradford says...
6:21pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Brian wrote:Brian the fact that the Bulls and Bradford Council don't seem to understand the rules of sport and proposed an athletic facility which can't be used for competition - says alot about this scheme.
Surely to goodness those issues can be ironed out. Apparently the site runs down to the motorway so there must be room for two more lanes for a running track
It's not being built for sport - It's being built for leisure and they are two different things.
That's why Bradford doesn't have true sport facilities.
CJA, Bradford says...
6:21pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Brian wrote:Brian the fact that the Bulls and Bradford Council don't seem to understand the rules of sport and proposed an athletic facility which can't be used for competition - says alot about this scheme.
Surely to goodness those issues can be ironed out. Apparently the site runs down to the motorway so there must be room for two more lanes for a running track
It's not being built for sport - It's being built for leisure and they are two different things.
That's why Bradford doesn't have true sport facilities.
sarah, bradford says...
7:57pm Mon 10 Dec 07
albion wrote:Funny you should mention stockcars and speedway. Despite playing a massive part in the stadium's history and attracting some of the largest crowds ever seen at the stadium, they never seem to get a mention in the plans to make Odsal a "true multi-purpose sports stadium". The management at Odsal obviously have a negative view of motorsport because they seem willing to include every pathetic piddling little sport in the country in their new complex, apart from speedway, stockcars or trials bikes. This is despite the fact the Bradford district has produced some of motorsport's finest world champs, including Dougie Lampkin and Frankie Wainman, junior and senior!
What a waste of time and money the whole Odsal charade has been. If the stadium development had gone ahead after the superdome farce, we could have had years of rugby in a setting to be proud of, years of top event stock cars and speedway(the grand prix for example is a former odsal event, now at Cardiff, bringing in around 50,000 spectators and shown worldwide on tv)and the chance to become a venue for other one off events and concerts. It is however an indication of what people have come to expect(those who wont have any critical remarks said about Bradford and its council, please take note).
sarah, bradford says...
7:57pm Mon 10 Dec 07
albion wrote:Funny you should mention stockcars and speedway. Despite playing a massive part in the stadium's history and attracting some of the largest crowds ever seen at the stadium, they never seem to get a mention in the plans to make Odsal a "true multi-purpose sports stadium". The management at Odsal obviously have a negative view of motorsport because they seem willing to include every pathetic piddling little sport in the country in their new complex, apart from speedway, stockcars or trials bikes. This is despite the fact the Bradford district has produced some of motorsport's finest world champs, including Dougie Lampkin and Frankie Wainman, junior and senior!
What a waste of time and money the whole Odsal charade has been. If the stadium development had gone ahead after the superdome farce, we could have had years of rugby in a setting to be proud of, years of top event stock cars and speedway(the grand prix for example is a former odsal event, now at Cardiff, bringing in around 50,000 spectators and shown worldwide on tv)and the chance to become a venue for other one off events and concerts. It is however an indication of what people have come to expect(those who wont have any critical remarks said about Bradford and its council, please take note).
sarah, bradford says...
7:57pm Mon 10 Dec 07
albion wrote:Funny you should mention stockcars and speedway. Despite playing a massive part in the stadium's history and attracting some of the largest crowds ever seen at the stadium, they never seem to get a mention in the plans to make Odsal a "true multi-purpose sports stadium". The management at Odsal obviously have a negative view of motorsport because they seem willing to include every pathetic piddling little sport in the country in their new complex, apart from speedway, stockcars or trials bikes. This is despite the fact the Bradford district has produced some of motorsport's finest world champs, including Dougie Lampkin and Frankie Wainman, junior and senior!
What a waste of time and money the whole Odsal charade has been. If the stadium development had gone ahead after the superdome farce, we could have had years of rugby in a setting to be proud of, years of top event stock cars and speedway(the grand prix for example is a former odsal event, now at Cardiff, bringing in around 50,000 spectators and shown worldwide on tv)and the chance to become a venue for other one off events and concerts. It is however an indication of what people have come to expect(those who wont have any critical remarks said about Bradford and its council, please take note).
sarah, bradford says...
7:57pm Mon 10 Dec 07
albion wrote:Funny you should mention stockcars and speedway. Despite playing a massive part in the stadium's history and attracting some of the largest crowds ever seen at the stadium, they never seem to get a mention in the plans to make Odsal a "true multi-purpose sports stadium". The management at Odsal obviously have a negative view of motorsport because they seem willing to include every pathetic piddling little sport in the country in their new complex, apart from speedway, stockcars or trials bikes. This is despite the fact the Bradford district has produced some of motorsport's finest world champs, including Dougie Lampkin and Frankie Wainman, junior and senior!
What a waste of time and money the whole Odsal charade has been. If the stadium development had gone ahead after the superdome farce, we could have had years of rugby in a setting to be proud of, years of top event stock cars and speedway(the grand prix for example is a former odsal event, now at Cardiff, bringing in around 50,000 spectators and shown worldwide on tv)and the chance to become a venue for other one off events and concerts. It is however an indication of what people have come to expect(those who wont have any critical remarks said about Bradford and its council, please take note).
tony kenny, bradford says...
8:48pm Mon 10 Dec 07
tony kenny, bradford says...
8:48pm Mon 10 Dec 07
tony kenny, bradford says...
8:48pm Mon 10 Dec 07
tony kenny, bradford says...
8:48pm Mon 10 Dec 07
cyprus2006, Bradford says...
9:04pm Mon 10 Dec 07
cyprus2006, Bradford says...
9:04pm Mon 10 Dec 07
cyprus2006, Bradford says...
9:04pm Mon 10 Dec 07
cyprus2006, Bradford says...
9:04pm Mon 10 Dec 07
David Wright, Bd4 6ln says...
10:54pm Mon 10 Dec 07
David Wright, Bd4 6ln says...
10:54pm Mon 10 Dec 07
David Wright, Bd4 6ln says...
10:54pm Mon 10 Dec 07
David Wright, Bd4 6ln says...
10:54pm Mon 10 Dec 07
Redevelopment plans for Odsal have been criticised
Sports Minister Gerry Sutcliffe
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John Kelly, Bratfud says...
8:26am Mon 10 Dec 07