Controversial shisha lounge is refused planning permission for second time

REFUSED: Retrospective planning permission for the Al Qaza shisha lounge has been refused for the second time

REFUSED: Retrospective planning permission for the Al Qaza shisha lounge has been refused for the second time

First published in News Bradford Telegraph and Argus: Photograph of the Author by , T&A Reporter

EXTRA off-street parking and offering to remove a mock castle facade have not been enough for a controversial Bradford shisha lounge to gain planning permission.

It is the second time that the owner of the Al Qaza Lounge, a former warehouse building in Mortimer Street, off Thornton Road, has applied to Bradford Council to make his operation "entirely legitimate".

And this is the second time the retrospective change of use and extension plans have been turned down.

Earlier this year the Telegraph & Argus reported how Mohammed Shabir had taken over the business, which had been running without the correct planning permission in place for several years.

In April the bid was refused with the "unsympathetic and incongruous" mock-castle facade and a lack of off-street parking to blame.

However, in the latest application it was proposed that the castle-style boundary wall be replaced with something more in-keeping, and an agreement reached with a nearby business to utilise an extra 60 off-street parking spaces in the evening when the lounge was open.

In documents attached to the planning application it states: "It is considered that the issues previously raised by the Council have been comprehensively responded to in this design statement.

"Given the local demographics, land uses and local support for the proposal as demonstrated by the willingness to offer car parking facilities indicates the proposal has been adequately considered and has overcome the issues previously raised."

But in his report, planning officer Matthew Aveyard, states that while the replacement of the castle facade with "a simple design for the wall" is acceptable, the parking issue still remains.

"While the off-street parking proposed is a way of overcoming the previous reasons for refusal there is no way of ensuring parking would take place in the designated parking spaces as it is unlikely patrons would park there when there is on-street parking available outside the premises and in and around the local streets which is where the parking already occurs.

"In addition to this a planning condition could not be attached to the application as the car parks are outside the application site therefore the use of the car parks could not be enforced."

A further reasons for refusal is that the use of an industrial building as a cafe within an employment zone is considered to be a loss of employment buildings, and that its use as such is considered to be suitable for a main town centre, therefore the applicant would need to demonstrate that sites closer to the city centre are not available.

The site is now the subject of an enforcement investigation and an enforcement notice was served in November against the unauthorised use.

The Telegraph & Argus was unable to contact Mr Shabir for a comment.

Comments (20)

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5:46am Fri 5 Sep 14

PeterBooth says...

"the business, which had been running without the correct planning permission in place for several years." "The site is now the subject of an enforcement investigation and an enforcement notice was served in November against the unauthorised use". That is 10 months ago !!!!
I wonder if the Planning Dept need to get a grip of the situation, it seems that this business has been operating illegally for years. Is it a matter of not wanting to upset the apple cart. There are retail establishments that seem to ignore the Sunday trading laws.
"the business, which had been running without the correct planning permission in place for several years." "The site is now the subject of an enforcement investigation and an enforcement notice was served in November against the unauthorised use". That is 10 months ago !!!! I wonder if the Planning Dept need to get a grip of the situation, it seems that this business has been operating illegally for years. Is it a matter of not wanting to upset the apple cart. There are retail establishments that seem to ignore the Sunday trading laws. PeterBooth
  • Score: 42

7:31am Fri 5 Sep 14

Albion. says...

What a monstrosity! I don't care who owns a business or what it does, if it hasn't got planning permission it should be closed until an enquiry (paid for by the owner) has concluded that everything is in order.
What a monstrosity! I don't care who owns a business or what it does, if it hasn't got planning permission it should be closed until an enquiry (paid for by the owner) has concluded that everything is in order. Albion.
  • Score: 56

8:44am Fri 5 Sep 14

bd7 helper says...

Playing the system! come on council get the fine book out
Playing the system! come on council get the fine book out bd7 helper
  • Score: 37

9:34am Fri 5 Sep 14

Avro says...

Yet another tryer - It had run for several years without planning permission and planning revoked twice since.

Shut it down and move on, nothing to see hear other than it being a hide for illegality!
Yet another tryer - It had run for several years without planning permission and planning revoked twice since. Shut it down and move on, nothing to see hear other than it being a hide for illegality! Avro
  • Score: 47

10:30am Fri 5 Sep 14

Robin of Loxley says...

Good :)
Good :) Robin of Loxley
  • Score: 18

11:45am Fri 5 Sep 14

flogem says...

Just tell them planning permission will not be granted,how ever you dress up the application.
This must be a first that the planning department haven't caved in.
We shall see.
Just tell them planning permission will not be granted,how ever you dress up the application. This must be a first that the planning department haven't caved in. We shall see. flogem
  • Score: 19

2:15pm Fri 5 Sep 14

lovebradford says...

I agree, theoretically at least that ignoring planning restrictions is wrong....i also don't have an opinion on whether the set up of this business complies with indoor smoking laws.

HOWEVER, the basis for rejections mentioned by the planning officer seem counter productive - particularly the need to show that a building closer to the city centre isn't available.

I don't know if this planning officer is living in Bradford of their own world, as I know for a fact people are not queuing up to rent commercial buildings around Bradford, so if this business stopped trading, the most likely case is that it would just be added to the long list of empty buildings in the city. Surely, that cant be good for the city can it? Perhaps a smarter move could be to help this business to operate more compliantly - bearing in mind an operating business is better than an empty building.

Perhaps the planning team at the council should work closer with the bodies around the city including the council who are trying to encourage more trade in the city, rather than working to alternative agenda. A prosperous city needs businesses.

A number of similar businesses around the country have managed to adapt their operations to comply with smoking laws, so why not help this business to do the same. Rather than throw counter-productive trivial arguments at them to refuse planning.
I agree, theoretically at least that ignoring planning restrictions is wrong....i also don't have an opinion on whether the set up of this business complies with indoor smoking laws. HOWEVER, the basis for rejections mentioned by the planning officer seem counter productive - particularly the need to show that a building closer to the city centre isn't available. I don't know if this planning officer is living in Bradford of their own world, as I know for a fact people are not queuing up to rent commercial buildings around Bradford, so if this business stopped trading, the most likely case is that it would just be added to the long list of empty buildings in the city. Surely, that cant be good for the city can it? Perhaps a smarter move could be to help this business to operate more compliantly - bearing in mind an operating business is better than an empty building. Perhaps the planning team at the council should work closer with the bodies around the city including the council who are trying to encourage more trade in the city, rather than working to alternative agenda. A prosperous city needs businesses. A number of similar businesses around the country have managed to adapt their operations to comply with smoking laws, so why not help this business to do the same. Rather than throw counter-productive trivial arguments at them to refuse planning. lovebradford
  • Score: -5

2:52pm Fri 5 Sep 14

Robin of Loxley says...

lovebradford wrote:
I agree, theoretically at least that ignoring planning restrictions is wrong....i also don't have an opinion on whether the set up of this business complies with indoor smoking laws.

HOWEVER, the basis for rejections mentioned by the planning officer seem counter productive - particularly the need to show that a building closer to the city centre isn't available.

I don't know if this planning officer is living in Bradford of their own world, as I know for a fact people are not queuing up to rent commercial buildings around Bradford, so if this business stopped trading, the most likely case is that it would just be added to the long list of empty buildings in the city. Surely, that cant be good for the city can it? Perhaps a smarter move could be to help this business to operate more compliantly - bearing in mind an operating business is better than an empty building.

Perhaps the planning team at the council should work closer with the bodies around the city including the council who are trying to encourage more trade in the city, rather than working to alternative agenda. A prosperous city needs businesses.

A number of similar businesses around the country have managed to adapt their operations to comply with smoking laws, so why not help this business to do the same. Rather than throw counter-productive trivial arguments at them to refuse planning.
I'm kinda surprised the owner (a Muslim) wants to have an un-Islamic business.

He might as well open a pub.
[quote][p][bold]lovebradford[/bold] wrote: I agree, theoretically at least that ignoring planning restrictions is wrong....i also don't have an opinion on whether the set up of this business complies with indoor smoking laws. HOWEVER, the basis for rejections mentioned by the planning officer seem counter productive - particularly the need to show that a building closer to the city centre isn't available. I don't know if this planning officer is living in Bradford of their own world, as I know for a fact people are not queuing up to rent commercial buildings around Bradford, so if this business stopped trading, the most likely case is that it would just be added to the long list of empty buildings in the city. Surely, that cant be good for the city can it? Perhaps a smarter move could be to help this business to operate more compliantly - bearing in mind an operating business is better than an empty building. Perhaps the planning team at the council should work closer with the bodies around the city including the council who are trying to encourage more trade in the city, rather than working to alternative agenda. A prosperous city needs businesses. A number of similar businesses around the country have managed to adapt their operations to comply with smoking laws, so why not help this business to do the same. Rather than throw counter-productive trivial arguments at them to refuse planning.[/p][/quote]I'm kinda surprised the owner (a Muslim) wants to have an un-Islamic business. He might as well open a pub. Robin of Loxley
  • Score: 29

6:05pm Fri 5 Sep 14

evening says...

Its not been refused twice but loads of times over several years. Every one including council know that its the same people using different family n friends to front it. They got a new place on leeds road by the name of kream so properly will try and do the same like they have here and just run it illegally and buy time. Come on council do something about it.
Its not been refused twice but loads of times over several years. Every one including council know that its the same people using different family n friends to front it. They got a new place on leeds road by the name of kream so properly will try and do the same like they have here and just run it illegally and buy time. Come on council do something about it. evening
  • Score: 29

10:05pm Fri 5 Sep 14

Heaton2Dubai says...

Business is business and any type of investment is needed in Bradford. Anyone would think we were a prosperous city to turn down planning applications. I've been in Dubai for 15 years and over here even in the recession they were building.
Business is business and any type of investment is needed in Bradford. Anyone would think we were a prosperous city to turn down planning applications. I've been in Dubai for 15 years and over here even in the recession they were building. Heaton2Dubai
  • Score: -13

8:42am Sat 6 Sep 14

flogem says...

Heaton2Dubai wrote:
Business is business and any type of investment is needed in Bradford. Anyone would think we were a prosperous city to turn down planning applications. I've been in Dubai for 15 years and over here even in the recession they were building.
Am I right in thinking Dubai is slightly different to Bradford or did you have your head in the sand.
[quote][p][bold]Heaton2Dubai[/bold] wrote: Business is business and any type of investment is needed in Bradford. Anyone would think we were a prosperous city to turn down planning applications. I've been in Dubai for 15 years and over here even in the recession they were building.[/p][/quote]Am I right in thinking Dubai is slightly different to Bradford or did you have your head in the sand. flogem
  • Score: 20

9:41am Sat 6 Sep 14

Heaton2Dubai says...

flogem wrote:
Heaton2Dubai wrote:
Business is business and any type of investment is needed in Bradford. Anyone would think we were a prosperous city to turn down planning applications. I've been in Dubai for 15 years and over here even in the recession they were building.
Am I right in thinking Dubai is slightly different to Bradford or did you have your head in the sand.
It's very different it's very cosmopolitan and the weathers not bad. Maybe you have had too much acid rain on your head. Come over to Dubai you will love it seeing people from ll around the world working together and virtually no crime.
[quote][p][bold]flogem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Heaton2Dubai[/bold] wrote: Business is business and any type of investment is needed in Bradford. Anyone would think we were a prosperous city to turn down planning applications. I've been in Dubai for 15 years and over here even in the recession they were building.[/p][/quote]Am I right in thinking Dubai is slightly different to Bradford or did you have your head in the sand.[/p][/quote]It's very different it's very cosmopolitan and the weathers not bad. Maybe you have had too much acid rain on your head. Come over to Dubai you will love it seeing people from ll around the world working together and virtually no crime. Heaton2Dubai
  • Score: 10

10:13am Sat 6 Sep 14

Papa Smurfs Wig says...

I once went in that place with a few mates and sure enough they were smoking tobacco.
I don't think its a bad place but if it doesn't have planning permission then how come it trades?
Obviously enforcement only applies to some.
I once went in that place with a few mates and sure enough they were smoking tobacco. I don't think its a bad place but if it doesn't have planning permission then how come it trades? Obviously enforcement only applies to some. Papa Smurfs Wig
  • Score: 6

1:51pm Sat 6 Sep 14

flogem says...

Heaton2Dubai wrote:
flogem wrote:
Heaton2Dubai wrote:
Business is business and any type of investment is needed in Bradford. Anyone would think we were a prosperous city to turn down planning applications. I've been in Dubai for 15 years and over here even in the recession they were building.
Am I right in thinking Dubai is slightly different to Bradford or did you have your head in the sand.
It's very different it's very cosmopolitan and the weathers not bad. Maybe you have had too much acid rain on your head. Come over to Dubai you will love it seeing people from ll around the world working together and virtually no crime.
There would be no crime here if we adopted Dubai laws.
Flogging
Amputation
Beheading
Stoning to death.
No thanks.
[quote][p][bold]Heaton2Dubai[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]flogem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Heaton2Dubai[/bold] wrote: Business is business and any type of investment is needed in Bradford. Anyone would think we were a prosperous city to turn down planning applications. I've been in Dubai for 15 years and over here even in the recession they were building.[/p][/quote]Am I right in thinking Dubai is slightly different to Bradford or did you have your head in the sand.[/p][/quote]It's very different it's very cosmopolitan and the weathers not bad. Maybe you have had too much acid rain on your head. Come over to Dubai you will love it seeing people from ll around the world working together and virtually no crime.[/p][/quote]There would be no crime here if we adopted Dubai laws. Flogging Amputation Beheading Stoning to death. No thanks. flogem
  • Score: -2

8:09pm Sat 6 Sep 14

Heaton2Dubai says...

In Dubai no one has been beheaded or stoned you should really stop listening to bnp or Britain first propaganda on your council estate
In Dubai no one has been beheaded or stoned you should really stop listening to bnp or Britain first propaganda on your council estate Heaton2Dubai
  • Score: 6

8:25pm Sat 6 Sep 14

flogem says...

Heaton2Dubai wrote:
In Dubai no one has been beheaded or stoned you should really stop listening to bnp or Britain first propaganda on your council estate
What about flogging and amputation are they still being done?
[quote][p][bold]Heaton2Dubai[/bold] wrote: In Dubai no one has been beheaded or stoned you should really stop listening to bnp or Britain first propaganda on your council estate[/p][/quote]What about flogging and amputation are they still being done? flogem
  • Score: -6

8:45pm Sat 6 Sep 14

Robin of Loxley says...

flogem wrote:
Heaton2Dubai wrote:
In Dubai no one has been beheaded or stoned you should really stop listening to bnp or Britain first propaganda on your council estate
What about flogging and amputation are they still being done?
I don't know.

You should know (with that rather apt username)....
[quote][p][bold]flogem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Heaton2Dubai[/bold] wrote: In Dubai no one has been beheaded or stoned you should really stop listening to bnp or Britain first propaganda on your council estate[/p][/quote]What about flogging and amputation are they still being done?[/p][/quote]I don't know. You should know (with that rather apt username).... Robin of Loxley
  • Score: 8

12:54am Sun 7 Sep 14

peterspan says...

flogem wrote:
Heaton2Dubai wrote:
flogem wrote:
Heaton2Dubai wrote:
Business is business and any type of investment is needed in Bradford. Anyone would think we were a prosperous city to turn down planning applications. I've been in Dubai for 15 years and over here even in the recession they were building.
Am I right in thinking Dubai is slightly different to Bradford or did you have your head in the sand.
It's very different it's very cosmopolitan and the weathers not bad. Maybe you have had too much acid rain on your head. Come over to Dubai you will love it seeing people from ll around the world working together and virtually no crime.
There would be no crime here if we adopted Dubai laws.
Flogging
Amputation
Beheading
Stoning to death.
No thanks.
Why 'no thanks', if in your own words 'there would be no crime'?

Are you an advocate of criminal activity?

The punishments you have stated are to act as a deterrent, hence there being virtually no crime where those punishments are enforced.
[quote][p][bold]flogem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Heaton2Dubai[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]flogem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Heaton2Dubai[/bold] wrote: Business is business and any type of investment is needed in Bradford. Anyone would think we were a prosperous city to turn down planning applications. I've been in Dubai for 15 years and over here even in the recession they were building.[/p][/quote]Am I right in thinking Dubai is slightly different to Bradford or did you have your head in the sand.[/p][/quote]It's very different it's very cosmopolitan and the weathers not bad. Maybe you have had too much acid rain on your head. Come over to Dubai you will love it seeing people from ll around the world working together and virtually no crime.[/p][/quote]There would be no crime here if we adopted Dubai laws. Flogging Amputation Beheading Stoning to death. No thanks.[/p][/quote]Why 'no thanks', if in your own words 'there would be no crime'? Are you an advocate of criminal activity? The punishments you have stated are to act as a deterrent, hence there being virtually no crime where those punishments are enforced. peterspan
  • Score: 2

8:31am Sun 7 Sep 14

flogem says...

peterspan wrote:
flogem wrote:
Heaton2Dubai wrote:
flogem wrote:
Heaton2Dubai wrote:
Business is business and any type of investment is needed in Bradford. Anyone would think we were a prosperous city to turn down planning applications. I've been in Dubai for 15 years and over here even in the recession they were building.
Am I right in thinking Dubai is slightly different to Bradford or did you have your head in the sand.
It's very different it's very cosmopolitan and the weathers not bad. Maybe you have had too much acid rain on your head. Come over to Dubai you will love it seeing people from ll around the world working together and virtually no crime.
There would be no crime here if we adopted Dubai laws.
Flogging
Amputation
Beheading
Stoning to death.
No thanks.
Why 'no thanks', if in your own words 'there would be no crime'?

Are you an advocate of criminal activity?

The punishments you have stated are to act as a deterrent, hence there being virtually no crime where those punishments are enforced.
I was just thinking it would put more strain on the already creaking NHS.
[quote][p][bold]peterspan[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]flogem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Heaton2Dubai[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]flogem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Heaton2Dubai[/bold] wrote: Business is business and any type of investment is needed in Bradford. Anyone would think we were a prosperous city to turn down planning applications. I've been in Dubai for 15 years and over here even in the recession they were building.[/p][/quote]Am I right in thinking Dubai is slightly different to Bradford or did you have your head in the sand.[/p][/quote]It's very different it's very cosmopolitan and the weathers not bad. Maybe you have had too much acid rain on your head. Come over to Dubai you will love it seeing people from ll around the world working together and virtually no crime.[/p][/quote]There would be no crime here if we adopted Dubai laws. Flogging Amputation Beheading Stoning to death. No thanks.[/p][/quote]Why 'no thanks', if in your own words 'there would be no crime'? Are you an advocate of criminal activity? The punishments you have stated are to act as a deterrent, hence there being virtually no crime where those punishments are enforced.[/p][/quote]I was just thinking it would put more strain on the already creaking NHS. flogem
  • Score: 2

10:47am Sun 7 Sep 14

Bikerbeardy says...

flogem wrote:
Heaton2Dubai wrote:
flogem wrote:
Heaton2Dubai wrote:
Business is business and any type of investment is needed in Bradford. Anyone would think we were a prosperous city to turn down planning applications. I've been in Dubai for 15 years and over here even in the recession they were building.
Am I right in thinking Dubai is slightly different to Bradford or did you have your head in the sand.
It's very different it's very cosmopolitan and the weathers not bad. Maybe you have had too much acid rain on your head. Come over to Dubai you will love it seeing people from ll around the world working together and virtually no crime.
There would be no crime here if we adopted Dubai laws.
Flogging
Amputation
Beheading
Stoning to death.
No thanks.
Barbaric medieval laws, might be prosperous but still 3rd world.
[quote][p][bold]flogem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Heaton2Dubai[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]flogem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Heaton2Dubai[/bold] wrote: Business is business and any type of investment is needed in Bradford. Anyone would think we were a prosperous city to turn down planning applications. I've been in Dubai for 15 years and over here even in the recession they were building.[/p][/quote]Am I right in thinking Dubai is slightly different to Bradford or did you have your head in the sand.[/p][/quote]It's very different it's very cosmopolitan and the weathers not bad. Maybe you have had too much acid rain on your head. Come over to Dubai you will love it seeing people from ll around the world working together and virtually no crime.[/p][/quote]There would be no crime here if we adopted Dubai laws. Flogging Amputation Beheading Stoning to death. No thanks.[/p][/quote]Barbaric medieval laws, might be prosperous but still 3rd world. Bikerbeardy
  • Score: 2
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