A “fit and proper person” test needed for school chiefs, hard-hitting report warns in wake of Bradford free school scandal

Prime Minister David Cameron meeting head teacher Sajid Raza and pupil at Kings Science Academy in 2012.

Secretary of State for Education Michael Gove visits Ashlands primary School in Ilkley meeting a class of pupils from year 5 doing a mental maths class in french. Pic ms rep JR. (6984930)

First published in News
Last updated

A “fit and proper person” test must be introduced for school leaders to prevent a repeat of the Kings Science Academy scandal, MPs say today.

The failure to properly check who is running the exploding number of academies and free schools is condemned by the Commons Public Accounts Committee (PAC).

Its hard-hitting report says the glaring weakness was laid bare when the Education Funding Agency (EFA) did not know who was chairman of trustees at the free school in Lidget Green, Bradford.

And it urges Education Secretary Michael Gove to take urgent action that “gets to grips with effective oversight to improve public confidence in the system”.

Margaret Hodge, the PAC’s chairman, said: “The department does not have a process for vetting those appointed as academy trustees or chief executives.

“In the recent high-profile case of Kings Science Academy, the Agency did not even know who the chair of trustees was.

“The department should introduce, at individual academy and academy trust level, a fit-and-proper persons test.”

Today’s report warns the ESA lacks the data to spot poor financial management at free schools and academies, relying instead on whistleblowers.

Worse, it adds: “Even when the Agency is presented with data that should trigger concerns and lead to further investigation, the Agency has not always taken action quickly enough, as in the case of Kings Science Academy in Bradford.”

The report is the latest strong criticism of what happened at Kings Science Academy, where the principal, Sajid Raza, was arrested on fraud allegations, in January.

The school must repay about £77,000 after “fabricated invoices” for rent were submitted to the DfE – something only revealed when a secret report was leaked.

Payments also went towards teachers’ furniture, with more than £600 spent on parties or meals and £169 given to an employee to buy clothes.

West Yorkshire Police said yesterday that Mr Raza remained on bail and that its inquiries were “ongoing”.

The mystery over the chairman of trustees arose when the school told the Department for Education (DfE) that Alan Lewis held the post – which he denied.

A firm run by Mr Lewis, a Conservative party vice-chairman, receives £300,000 a year for lease of the school’s land, despite suggestions to MPs that the market rent is only £100,000.

Today’s report was published amid the controversy over alleged extremism at Muslim-dominated schools in Birmingham, which has highlighted similar lack of oversight.

It also urges the DfE to consider a ban on so-called ‘related-party transactions’, where people have connections to both academy trusts and private companies.

Miss Hodge added: “They are always open to accusations of conflicts of interests, even when supposedly on a not-for-profit basis, and this serves to undermine public confidence.”

Comments (38)

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8:05am Tue 10 Jun 14

johnh1 says...

Free Schools are another ill thought out Tory policy.
Perhaps these people actually thought they were free.
Schools,Water.Gas and Electricity are far too important to allow people with
Personal agenda's to meddle in
Take Education back into local Authority control and teach morals based on Christianity.
Even if you are are not religious the Christian commandments are a good code to live by.
Free Schools are another ill thought out Tory policy. Perhaps these people actually thought they were free. Schools,Water.Gas and Electricity are far too important to allow people with Personal agenda's to meddle in Take Education back into local Authority control and teach morals based on Christianity. Even if you are are not religious the Christian commandments are a good code to live by. johnh1
  • Score: 12

8:13am Tue 10 Jun 14

Thee Voice of Reason says...

All the governers of a school in Bradford were dismissed not long since. Trojan horse cover up? The public deserve to know.
All the governers of a school in Bradford were dismissed not long since. Trojan horse cover up? The public deserve to know. Thee Voice of Reason
  • Score: 24

8:19am Tue 10 Jun 14

bd7 helper says...

We want that money quick and fast
We want that money quick and fast bd7 helper
  • Score: 6

9:01am Tue 10 Jun 14

BertSanders says...

Schools must promote British values - if this cannot be accepted other arrangements will have to be made.
Schools must promote British values - if this cannot be accepted other arrangements will have to be made. BertSanders
  • Score: 25

9:27am Tue 10 Jun 14

baildongreen says...

With this and the Trojan Horse scandal it seems some cultures are more prone to corruption than others.
With this and the Trojan Horse scandal it seems some cultures are more prone to corruption than others. baildongreen
  • Score: 59

9:36am Tue 10 Jun 14

SurprisedByJoyce says...

johnh1 wrote:
Free Schools are another ill thought out Tory policy.
Perhaps these people actually thought they were free.
Schools,Water.Gas and Electricity are far too important to allow people with
Personal agenda's to meddle in
Take Education back into local Authority control and teach morals based on Christianity.
Even if you are are not religious the Christian commandments are a good code to live by.
British values are essentially Christian values, whether people these days are believers of not. I would rather have a value system that encourages you to love God and your neighbour as yourself than one that believes in mutilating young girls, stoning lovers to death and gives permission to kill all non-believers. It’s time we realised that Muslim values are anti-British and society has to make a choice.
[quote][p][bold]johnh1[/bold] wrote: Free Schools are another ill thought out Tory policy. Perhaps these people actually thought they were free. Schools,Water.Gas and Electricity are far too important to allow people with Personal agenda's to meddle in Take Education back into local Authority control and teach morals based on Christianity. Even if you are are not religious the Christian commandments are a good code to live by.[/p][/quote]British values are essentially Christian values, whether people these days are believers of not. I would rather have a value system that encourages you to love God and your neighbour as yourself than one that believes in mutilating young girls, stoning lovers to death and gives permission to kill all non-believers. It’s time we realised that Muslim values are anti-British and society has to make a choice. SurprisedByJoyce
  • Score: 62

9:36am Tue 10 Jun 14

Farsley Bantam says...

baildongreen wrote:
With this and the Trojan Horse scandal it seems some cultures are more prone to corruption than others.
Anyone who thinks that the goings on in Birmingham schools will not be happening here needs their head checking. A blind eye will be turned though unfortunately as we don't want to be accused of Islamophopia, despite the truly despicable ideology that this faith promotes.
For far too long we have bent over backwards to promote multicuturalism and ignored the many unsavoury cultural practices that Islam teaches.
[quote][p][bold]baildongreen[/bold] wrote: With this and the Trojan Horse scandal it seems some cultures are more prone to corruption than others.[/p][/quote]Anyone who thinks that the goings on in Birmingham schools will not be happening here needs their head checking. A blind eye will be turned though unfortunately as we don't want to be accused of Islamophopia, despite the truly despicable ideology that this faith promotes. For far too long we have bent over backwards to promote multicuturalism and ignored the many unsavoury cultural practices that Islam teaches. Farsley Bantam
  • Score: 35

9:51am Tue 10 Jun 14

SinnerSaint says...

Wow. Someone at the T&A left the door open and went home early 😂😂😂😂
Wow. Someone at the T&A left the door open and went home early 😂😂😂😂 SinnerSaint
  • Score: 15

9:55am Tue 10 Jun 14

Grumpygirl says...

johnh1 wrote:
Free Schools are another ill thought out Tory policy.
Perhaps these people actually thought they were free.
Schools,Water.Gas and Electricity are far too important to allow people with
Personal agenda's to meddle in
Take Education back into local Authority control and teach morals based on Christianity.
Even if you are are not religious the Christian commandments are a good code to live by.
Socialism, which gave us the welfare state, was the direct result of the 19C collision between Christian values and the workings of an unrestrained market.

Islam never really got to terms with social equality which is why the Arab Spring failed so spectacularly. Britain has a choice between British, Christian, socialist values which ultimately hold out the hope of redemption and Sharia with its emphasis on punishment.

To save a lot of post time. When Marx said religion was the opiate of the people, he was rightly criticising the way in which the Victorian Tory classes used religion to manipulate the proletariat. He was not anti-Jesus, or against the basic teaching of Christianity. Far from it. See ‘All things Bright and Beautiful’

The rich man in his castle,
The poor man at his gate,
God made them high and lowly,
And ordered their estate.

to understand what was annoying him.
[quote][p][bold]johnh1[/bold] wrote: Free Schools are another ill thought out Tory policy. Perhaps these people actually thought they were free. Schools,Water.Gas and Electricity are far too important to allow people with Personal agenda's to meddle in Take Education back into local Authority control and teach morals based on Christianity. Even if you are are not religious the Christian commandments are a good code to live by.[/p][/quote]Socialism, which gave us the welfare state, was the direct result of the 19C collision between Christian values and the workings of an unrestrained market. Islam never really got to terms with social equality which is why the Arab Spring failed so spectacularly. Britain has a choice between British, Christian, socialist values which ultimately hold out the hope of redemption and Sharia with its emphasis on punishment. To save a lot of post time. When Marx said religion was the opiate of the people, he was rightly criticising the way in which the Victorian Tory classes used religion to manipulate the proletariat. He was not anti-Jesus, or against the basic teaching of Christianity. Far from it. See ‘All things Bright and Beautiful’ The rich man in his castle, The poor man at his gate, God made them high and lowly, And ordered their estate. to understand what was annoying him. Grumpygirl
  • Score: 22

10:16am Tue 10 Jun 14

northern pig says...

Looking at the posts on this forum,it becomes blindingly obvious that western and eastern cultures do not sit comfortably with one another.It is a pity that successive tory and labour governments did not consider that, when they invited people from Asia to these shores to do menial low paid work,from the mid sixties onwards, The sole purpose of which was to keep the wages of the indigenous working class low in cities and towns throughout this country low.Politicians are to blame for this fiasco, no one else.
Looking at the posts on this forum,it becomes blindingly obvious that western and eastern cultures do not sit comfortably with one another.It is a pity that successive tory and labour governments did not consider that, when they invited people from Asia to these shores to do menial low paid work,from the mid sixties onwards, The sole purpose of which was to keep the wages of the indigenous working class low in cities and towns throughout this country low.Politicians are to blame for this fiasco, no one else. northern pig
  • Score: 29

10:28am Tue 10 Jun 14

Farsley Bantam says...

northern pig wrote:
Looking at the posts on this forum,it becomes blindingly obvious that western and eastern cultures do not sit comfortably with one another.It is a pity that successive tory and labour governments did not consider that, when they invited people from Asia to these shores to do menial low paid work,from the mid sixties onwards, The sole purpose of which was to keep the wages of the indigenous working class low in cities and towns throughout this country low.Politicians are to blame for this fiasco, no one else.
I don't think its as cut and dry as Western vs Eastern cultures. How often do you hear of Chinese or Sikh communities causing problems? These communities have integrated well and have prospered.
We all know what the problem is but for too long we have tiptoed around the issue and allowed it to take root. It doesn't help that the religion in question cannot handle any criticism whatsoever and cries racism and Islamophopia whenever reasonable concerns are raised about the stone age practices that it supports.
[quote][p][bold]northern pig[/bold] wrote: Looking at the posts on this forum,it becomes blindingly obvious that western and eastern cultures do not sit comfortably with one another.It is a pity that successive tory and labour governments did not consider that, when they invited people from Asia to these shores to do menial low paid work,from the mid sixties onwards, The sole purpose of which was to keep the wages of the indigenous working class low in cities and towns throughout this country low.Politicians are to blame for this fiasco, no one else.[/p][/quote]I don't think its as cut and dry as Western vs Eastern cultures. How often do you hear of Chinese or Sikh communities causing problems? These communities have integrated well and have prospered. We all know what the problem is but for too long we have tiptoed around the issue and allowed it to take root. It doesn't help that the religion in question cannot handle any criticism whatsoever and cries racism and Islamophopia whenever reasonable concerns are raised about the stone age practices that it supports. Farsley Bantam
  • Score: 32

10:41am Tue 10 Jun 14

bachtothefuture says...

Farsley Bantam wrote:
northern pig wrote:
Looking at the posts on this forum,it becomes blindingly obvious that western and eastern cultures do not sit comfortably with one another.It is a pity that successive tory and labour governments did not consider that, when they invited people from Asia to these shores to do menial low paid work,from the mid sixties onwards, The sole purpose of which was to keep the wages of the indigenous working class low in cities and towns throughout this country low.Politicians are to blame for this fiasco, no one else.
I don't think its as cut and dry as Western vs Eastern cultures. How often do you hear of Chinese or Sikh communities causing problems? These communities have integrated well and have prospered.
We all know what the problem is but for too long we have tiptoed around the issue and allowed it to take root. It doesn't help that the religion in question cannot handle any criticism whatsoever and cries racism and Islamophopia whenever reasonable concerns are raised about the stone age practices that it supports.
I say this with a heavy heart because I have many good friends in the Asian community, but it’s not the people that are incompatible, but the cultures. A true Muslim, that believes all the teachings of Islam, and not just the convenient ones, has to accept that it is his religious duty to establish an Islamic state and by violence if necessary. “Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them”. There is no equivalent of this injunction and the other verses of the sword in Christianity.

So Muslims living in a western society must either modify their religion into a more accommodating form of Islam or set out to destroy the society in which they live. They have no other choice. Apart from hypocrisy. Every other person living alongside Muslims has an interest in the choice that they make. Bradford would be a good place to start the dialogue.
[quote][p][bold]Farsley Bantam[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]northern pig[/bold] wrote: Looking at the posts on this forum,it becomes blindingly obvious that western and eastern cultures do not sit comfortably with one another.It is a pity that successive tory and labour governments did not consider that, when they invited people from Asia to these shores to do menial low paid work,from the mid sixties onwards, The sole purpose of which was to keep the wages of the indigenous working class low in cities and towns throughout this country low.Politicians are to blame for this fiasco, no one else.[/p][/quote]I don't think its as cut and dry as Western vs Eastern cultures. How often do you hear of Chinese or Sikh communities causing problems? These communities have integrated well and have prospered. We all know what the problem is but for too long we have tiptoed around the issue and allowed it to take root. It doesn't help that the religion in question cannot handle any criticism whatsoever and cries racism and Islamophopia whenever reasonable concerns are raised about the stone age practices that it supports.[/p][/quote]I say this with a heavy heart because I have many good friends in the Asian community, but it’s not the people that are incompatible, but the cultures. A true Muslim, that believes all the teachings of Islam, and not just the convenient ones, has to accept that it is his religious duty to establish an Islamic state and by violence if necessary. “Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them”. There is no equivalent of this injunction and the other verses of the sword in Christianity. So Muslims living in a western society must either modify their religion into a more accommodating form of Islam or set out to destroy the society in which they live. They have no other choice. Apart from hypocrisy. Every other person living alongside Muslims has an interest in the choice that they make. Bradford would be a good place to start the dialogue. bachtothefuture
  • Score: 46

10:57am Tue 10 Jun 14

Albion. says...

For some with ambitions of dominance and intolerance, there are far too many opportunities to introduce their agenda, probably the CURRENT most dangerous of these is via education. Education should teach enlightenment, self-worth and sufficiency, good citizenship and tolerance. Religion of any kind should NOT be anything more than a further study subject and not considered as a guiding path.
For some with ambitions of dominance and intolerance, there are far too many opportunities to introduce their agenda, probably the CURRENT most dangerous of these is via education. Education should teach enlightenment, self-worth and sufficiency, good citizenship and tolerance. Religion of any kind should NOT be anything more than a further study subject and not considered as a guiding path. Albion.
  • Score: 4

11:29am Tue 10 Jun 14

FinlandStation says...

northern pig wrote:
Looking at the posts on this forum,it becomes blindingly obvious that western and eastern cultures do not sit comfortably with one another.It is a pity that successive tory and labour governments did not consider that, when they invited people from Asia to these shores to do menial low paid work,from the mid sixties onwards, The sole purpose of which was to keep the wages of the indigenous working class low in cities and towns throughout this country low.Politicians are to blame for this fiasco, no one else.
The root cause of many of Bradford’s problem can be traced back to the 1950’s when our local wool industry decided to solve its productivity crisis, not by buying new machinery, but by importing cheap labour. This was a short term fix at best. The mills inevitably closed and society was left to pick up the tab for a very poor set of management decisions.

As they so often do, big businesses had succeeded in privatising the gains and socialising the losses The same will happen in the aftermath of today’s surge in immigration and for the same reasons.
[quote][p][bold]northern pig[/bold] wrote: Looking at the posts on this forum,it becomes blindingly obvious that western and eastern cultures do not sit comfortably with one another.It is a pity that successive tory and labour governments did not consider that, when they invited people from Asia to these shores to do menial low paid work,from the mid sixties onwards, The sole purpose of which was to keep the wages of the indigenous working class low in cities and towns throughout this country low.Politicians are to blame for this fiasco, no one else.[/p][/quote]The root cause of many of Bradford’s problem can be traced back to the 1950’s when our local wool industry decided to solve its productivity crisis, not by buying new machinery, but by importing cheap labour. This was a short term fix at best. The mills inevitably closed and society was left to pick up the tab for a very poor set of management decisions. As they so often do, big businesses had succeeded in privatising the gains and socialising the losses The same will happen in the aftermath of today’s surge in immigration and for the same reasons. FinlandStation
  • Score: 31

11:33am Tue 10 Jun 14

Grumpygirl says...

Albion. wrote:
For some with ambitions of dominance and intolerance, there are far too many opportunities to introduce their agenda, probably the CURRENT most dangerous of these is via education. Education should teach enlightenment, self-worth and sufficiency, good citizenship and tolerance. Religion of any kind should NOT be anything more than a further study subject and not considered as a guiding path.
Very enlightened view Hoffster.
[quote][p][bold]Albion.[/bold] wrote: For some with ambitions of dominance and intolerance, there are far too many opportunities to introduce their agenda, probably the CURRENT most dangerous of these is via education. Education should teach enlightenment, self-worth and sufficiency, good citizenship and tolerance. Religion of any kind should NOT be anything more than a further study subject and not considered as a guiding path.[/p][/quote]Very enlightened view Hoffster. Grumpygirl
  • Score: -26

12:12pm Tue 10 Jun 14

999 number of the beast says...

FinlandStation wrote:
northern pig wrote:
Looking at the posts on this forum,it becomes blindingly obvious that western and eastern cultures do not sit comfortably with one another.It is a pity that successive tory and labour governments did not consider that, when they invited people from Asia to these shores to do menial low paid work,from the mid sixties onwards, The sole purpose of which was to keep the wages of the indigenous working class low in cities and towns throughout this country low.Politicians are to blame for this fiasco, no one else.
The root cause of many of Bradford’s problem can be traced back to the 1950’s when our local wool industry decided to solve its productivity crisis, not by buying new machinery, but by importing cheap labour. This was a short term fix at best. The mills inevitably closed and society was left to pick up the tab for a very poor set of management decisions.

As they so often do, big businesses had succeeded in privatising the gains and socialising the losses The same will happen in the aftermath of today’s surge in immigration and for the same reasons.
Well said and this will be more of a problem when manufacturers start installing intelligent assembly lines that will require less workers but more skilled workers.
Currently Google and the ilk are looking at vast automation just as the UK/world population increases.
To me the only solution is a 'Logan Run' type scenario.
[quote][p][bold]FinlandStation[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]northern pig[/bold] wrote: Looking at the posts on this forum,it becomes blindingly obvious that western and eastern cultures do not sit comfortably with one another.It is a pity that successive tory and labour governments did not consider that, when they invited people from Asia to these shores to do menial low paid work,from the mid sixties onwards, The sole purpose of which was to keep the wages of the indigenous working class low in cities and towns throughout this country low.Politicians are to blame for this fiasco, no one else.[/p][/quote]The root cause of many of Bradford’s problem can be traced back to the 1950’s when our local wool industry decided to solve its productivity crisis, not by buying new machinery, but by importing cheap labour. This was a short term fix at best. The mills inevitably closed and society was left to pick up the tab for a very poor set of management decisions. As they so often do, big businesses had succeeded in privatising the gains and socialising the losses The same will happen in the aftermath of today’s surge in immigration and for the same reasons.[/p][/quote]Well said and this will be more of a problem when manufacturers start installing intelligent assembly lines that will require less workers but more skilled workers. Currently Google and the ilk are looking at vast automation just as the UK/world population increases. To me the only solution is a 'Logan Run' type scenario. 999 number of the beast
  • Score: 16

1:04pm Tue 10 Jun 14

WayneRouke says...

YOU ARE NOW ENTERING A SHARIA FREE ZONE..


PLEASE PUT CLOCKS AND WATCHES FORWARD 1400 YEARS......
YOU ARE NOW ENTERING A SHARIA FREE ZONE.. PLEASE PUT CLOCKS AND WATCHES FORWARD 1400 YEARS...... WayneRouke
  • Score: 19

1:59pm Tue 10 Jun 14

SinnerSaint says...

Grumpygirl wrote:
johnh1 wrote:
Free Schools are another ill thought out Tory policy.
Perhaps these people actually thought they were free.
Schools,Water.Gas and Electricity are far too important to allow people with
Personal agenda's to meddle in
Take Education back into local Authority control and teach morals based on Christianity.
Even if you are are not religious the Christian commandments are a good code to live by.
Socialism, which gave us the welfare state, was the direct result of the 19C collision between Christian values and the workings of an unrestrained market.

Islam never really got to terms with social equality which is why the Arab Spring failed so spectacularly. Britain has a choice between British, Christian, socialist values which ultimately hold out the hope of redemption and Sharia with its emphasis on punishment.

To save a lot of post time. When Marx said religion was the opiate of the people, he was rightly criticising the way in which the Victorian Tory classes used religion to manipulate the proletariat. He was not anti-Jesus, or against the basic teaching of Christianity. Far from it. See ‘All things Bright and Beautiful’

The rich man in his castle,
The poor man at his gate,
God made them high and lowly,
And ordered their estate.

to understand what was annoying him.
Arab Spring failed spectacularly? Really?
[quote][p][bold]Grumpygirl[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]johnh1[/bold] wrote: Free Schools are another ill thought out Tory policy. Perhaps these people actually thought they were free. Schools,Water.Gas and Electricity are far too important to allow people with Personal agenda's to meddle in Take Education back into local Authority control and teach morals based on Christianity. Even if you are are not religious the Christian commandments are a good code to live by.[/p][/quote]Socialism, which gave us the welfare state, was the direct result of the 19C collision between Christian values and the workings of an unrestrained market. Islam never really got to terms with social equality which is why the Arab Spring failed so spectacularly. Britain has a choice between British, Christian, socialist values which ultimately hold out the hope of redemption and Sharia with its emphasis on punishment. To save a lot of post time. When Marx said religion was the opiate of the people, he was rightly criticising the way in which the Victorian Tory classes used religion to manipulate the proletariat. He was not anti-Jesus, or against the basic teaching of Christianity. Far from it. See ‘All things Bright and Beautiful’ The rich man in his castle, The poor man at his gate, God made them high and lowly, And ordered their estate. to understand what was annoying him.[/p][/quote]Arab Spring failed spectacularly? Really? SinnerSaint
  • Score: -20

2:08pm Tue 10 Jun 14

gouldengirl says...

SinnerSaint wrote:
Grumpygirl wrote:
johnh1 wrote:
Free Schools are another ill thought out Tory policy.
Perhaps these people actually thought they were free.
Schools,Water.Gas and Electricity are far too important to allow people with
Personal agenda's to meddle in
Take Education back into local Authority control and teach morals based on Christianity.
Even if you are are not religious the Christian commandments are a good code to live by.
Socialism, which gave us the welfare state, was the direct result of the 19C collision between Christian values and the workings of an unrestrained market.

Islam never really got to terms with social equality which is why the Arab Spring failed so spectacularly. Britain has a choice between British, Christian, socialist values which ultimately hold out the hope of redemption and Sharia with its emphasis on punishment.

To save a lot of post time. When Marx said religion was the opiate of the people, he was rightly criticising the way in which the Victorian Tory classes used religion to manipulate the proletariat. He was not anti-Jesus, or against the basic teaching of Christianity. Far from it. See ‘All things Bright and Beautiful’

The rich man in his castle,
The poor man at his gate,
God made them high and lowly,
And ordered their estate.

to understand what was annoying him.
Arab Spring failed spectacularly? Really?
Egypt. Syria. Lybia. Bahrain. Yemen Hardly paradigms of democratic stability. Tunisia & Morocco maybe, but they had the French legacy.
[quote][p][bold]SinnerSaint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Grumpygirl[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]johnh1[/bold] wrote: Free Schools are another ill thought out Tory policy. Perhaps these people actually thought they were free. Schools,Water.Gas and Electricity are far too important to allow people with Personal agenda's to meddle in Take Education back into local Authority control and teach morals based on Christianity. Even if you are are not religious the Christian commandments are a good code to live by.[/p][/quote]Socialism, which gave us the welfare state, was the direct result of the 19C collision between Christian values and the workings of an unrestrained market. Islam never really got to terms with social equality which is why the Arab Spring failed so spectacularly. Britain has a choice between British, Christian, socialist values which ultimately hold out the hope of redemption and Sharia with its emphasis on punishment. To save a lot of post time. When Marx said religion was the opiate of the people, he was rightly criticising the way in which the Victorian Tory classes used religion to manipulate the proletariat. He was not anti-Jesus, or against the basic teaching of Christianity. Far from it. See ‘All things Bright and Beautiful’ The rich man in his castle, The poor man at his gate, God made them high and lowly, And ordered their estate. to understand what was annoying him.[/p][/quote]Arab Spring failed spectacularly? Really?[/p][/quote]Egypt. Syria. Lybia. Bahrain. Yemen Hardly paradigms of democratic stability. Tunisia & Morocco maybe, but they had the French legacy. gouldengirl
  • Score: 22

2:15pm Tue 10 Jun 14

gouldengirl says...

Farsley Bantam wrote:
northern pig wrote:
Looking at the posts on this forum,it becomes blindingly obvious that western and eastern cultures do not sit comfortably with one another.It is a pity that successive tory and labour governments did not consider that, when they invited people from Asia to these shores to do menial low paid work,from the mid sixties onwards, The sole purpose of which was to keep the wages of the indigenous working class low in cities and towns throughout this country low.Politicians are to blame for this fiasco, no one else.
I don't think its as cut and dry as Western vs Eastern cultures. How often do you hear of Chinese or Sikh communities causing problems? These communities have integrated well and have prospered.
We all know what the problem is but for too long we have tiptoed around the issue and allowed it to take root. It doesn't help that the religion in question cannot handle any criticism whatsoever and cries racism and Islamophopia whenever reasonable concerns are raised about the stone age practices that it supports.
Very good point. Every other religion seems to be trouble free and has integrated well; but I suppose by their lights the Taliban are only doing what the Koran tells them to do. We should be grateful that most British Muslims have a much more relaxed approach to the sayings of this Mohammed chappy.
[quote][p][bold]Farsley Bantam[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]northern pig[/bold] wrote: Looking at the posts on this forum,it becomes blindingly obvious that western and eastern cultures do not sit comfortably with one another.It is a pity that successive tory and labour governments did not consider that, when they invited people from Asia to these shores to do menial low paid work,from the mid sixties onwards, The sole purpose of which was to keep the wages of the indigenous working class low in cities and towns throughout this country low.Politicians are to blame for this fiasco, no one else.[/p][/quote]I don't think its as cut and dry as Western vs Eastern cultures. How often do you hear of Chinese or Sikh communities causing problems? These communities have integrated well and have prospered. We all know what the problem is but for too long we have tiptoed around the issue and allowed it to take root. It doesn't help that the religion in question cannot handle any criticism whatsoever and cries racism and Islamophopia whenever reasonable concerns are raised about the stone age practices that it supports.[/p][/quote]Very good point. Every other religion seems to be trouble free and has integrated well; but I suppose by their lights the Taliban are only doing what the Koran tells them to do. We should be grateful that most British Muslims have a much more relaxed approach to the sayings of this Mohammed chappy. gouldengirl
  • Score: 16

2:40pm Tue 10 Jun 14

pcmanners says...

I have been very disappointed by the response of our normally sensible Government. The State has no right to try and change a nations culture. It should respect and protect it, that is all. So hunting down terrorists is a legitimate activity, setting up thought-police to interfere in the running of independently owned schools is not.

If other religions stay silent and Islam becomes the dominant culture of this country, or part of it, then that is the will of the market and neither the government nor anybody else should interfere.
I have been very disappointed by the response of our normally sensible Government. The State has no right to try and change a nations culture. It should respect and protect it, that is all. So hunting down terrorists is a legitimate activity, setting up thought-police to interfere in the running of independently owned schools is not. If other religions stay silent and Islam becomes the dominant culture of this country, or part of it, then that is the will of the market and neither the government nor anybody else should interfere. pcmanners
  • Score: -32

2:45pm Tue 10 Jun 14

Freddy Elliot says...

pcmanners I think the concern here is extremism.
pcmanners I think the concern here is extremism. Freddy Elliot
  • Score: 18

3:09pm Tue 10 Jun 14

Farsley Bantam says...

pcmanners wrote:
I have been very disappointed by the response of our normally sensible Government. The State has no right to try and change a nations culture. It should respect and protect it, that is all. So hunting down terrorists is a legitimate activity, setting up thought-police to interfere in the running of independently owned schools is not. If other religions stay silent and Islam becomes the dominant culture of this country, or part of it, then that is the will of the market and neither the government nor anybody else should interfere.
What absolute nonsense.

'The State has no right to try and change a nations culture'

The State has not tried to do this.

'It should respect and protect it, that is all'

By rasing concerns about schools where Islamic practices are over riding British values, the state is doing just that.

'setting up thought-police to interfere in the running of independently owned schools is not'

The schools are independently run but are funded by state money (tax payers money). The government has every right to step in if it feels that this money is being used improperly. And by the way the Birmingham schools are not indepenent but bog standard comprehensives.

'If other religions stay silent and Islam becomes the dominant culture of this country, or part of it, then that is the will of the market and neither the government nor anybody else should interfere'

This part can only be a p1ss take. I couldn't think of a worse outcome than this country becoming an Islamic Republic. Your answer to everything seems to be 'no regulation, leave it to the market to take care of things' which is a terrible idea for so many reasons.
[quote][p][bold]pcmanners[/bold] wrote: I have been very disappointed by the response of our normally sensible Government. The State has no right to try and change a nations culture. It should respect and protect it, that is all. So hunting down terrorists is a legitimate activity, setting up thought-police to interfere in the running of independently owned schools is not. If other religions stay silent and Islam becomes the dominant culture of this country, or part of it, then that is the will of the market and neither the government nor anybody else should interfere.[/p][/quote]What absolute nonsense. 'The State has no right to try and change a nations culture' The State has not tried to do this. 'It should respect and protect it, that is all' By rasing concerns about schools where Islamic practices are over riding British values, the state is doing just that. 'setting up thought-police to interfere in the running of independently owned schools is not' The schools are independently run but are funded by state money (tax payers money). The government has every right to step in if it feels that this money is being used improperly. And by the way the Birmingham schools are not indepenent but bog standard comprehensives. 'If other religions stay silent and Islam becomes the dominant culture of this country, or part of it, then that is the will of the market and neither the government nor anybody else should interfere' This part can only be a p1ss take. I couldn't think of a worse outcome than this country becoming an Islamic Republic. Your answer to everything seems to be 'no regulation, leave it to the market to take care of things' which is a terrible idea for so many reasons. Farsley Bantam
  • Score: 21

6:43pm Tue 10 Jun 14

Robin of Loxley says...

BNP/EDL scum having a field day on this article I see...
BNP/EDL scum having a field day on this article I see... Robin of Loxley
  • Score: 67

7:01pm Tue 10 Jun 14

pcmanners says...

Robin of Loxley wrote:
BNP/EDL scum having a field day on this article I see...
Hi Hoffster, you still haven't told me how you get to vote for yourself so many times I make that about 15 every 5 minutes. Its truly awesome the way you have stitched the T&A up.
[quote][p][bold]Robin of Loxley[/bold] wrote: BNP/EDL scum having a field day on this article I see...[/p][/quote]Hi Hoffster, you still haven't told me how you get to vote for yourself so many times I make that about 15 every 5 minutes. Its truly awesome the way you have stitched the T&A up. pcmanners
  • Score: 8

7:05pm Tue 10 Jun 14

Robin of Loxley says...

pcmanners wrote:
Robin of Loxley wrote:
BNP/EDL scum having a field day on this article I see...
Hi Hoffster, you still haven't told me how you get to vote for yourself so many times I make that about 15 every 5 minutes. Its truly awesome the way you have stitched the T&A up.
Hi there PC

As mentioned not too long ago, all you need to have is about a 100 supporters on here (all agreeing with everything you say).

Hope that clears up any confusion.

Regards

D. Hasselhoff.
[quote][p][bold]pcmanners[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Robin of Loxley[/bold] wrote: BNP/EDL scum having a field day on this article I see...[/p][/quote]Hi Hoffster, you still haven't told me how you get to vote for yourself so many times I make that about 15 every 5 minutes. Its truly awesome the way you have stitched the T&A up.[/p][/quote]Hi there PC As mentioned not too long ago, all you need to have is about a 100 supporters on here (all agreeing with everything you say). Hope that clears up any confusion. Regards D. Hasselhoff. Robin of Loxley
  • Score: -10

7:08pm Tue 10 Jun 14

Colin Allcars says...

Seems to me that the parents of children in these Birmingham sectarian schools go along with it rather than dare have an opposing opinion. It reminds me of the saying that goes on the lines of evil succeeds where good men do nothing. Can anyone really say that areas with majority muslim schools are better now than they were in the 1970's?
Seems to me that the parents of children in these Birmingham sectarian schools go along with it rather than dare have an opposing opinion. It reminds me of the saying that goes on the lines of evil succeeds where good men do nothing. Can anyone really say that areas with majority muslim schools are better now than they were in the 1970's? Colin Allcars
  • Score: 12

7:26pm Tue 10 Jun 14

BD16 says...

Robin of Loxley wrote:
pcmanners wrote:
Robin of Loxley wrote:
BNP/EDL scum having a field day on this article I see...
Hi Hoffster, you still haven't told me how you get to vote for yourself so many times I make that about 15 every 5 minutes. Its truly awesome the way you have stitched the T&A up.
Hi there PC

As mentioned not too long ago, all you need to have is about a 100 supporters on here (all agreeing with everything you say).

Hope that clears up any confusion.

Regards

D. Hasselhoff.
The gospel of Mark 5:9
[quote][p][bold]Robin of Loxley[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pcmanners[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Robin of Loxley[/bold] wrote: BNP/EDL scum having a field day on this article I see...[/p][/quote]Hi Hoffster, you still haven't told me how you get to vote for yourself so many times I make that about 15 every 5 minutes. Its truly awesome the way you have stitched the T&A up.[/p][/quote]Hi there PC As mentioned not too long ago, all you need to have is about a 100 supporters on here (all agreeing with everything you say). Hope that clears up any confusion. Regards D. Hasselhoff.[/p][/quote]The gospel of Mark 5:9 BD16
  • Score: -1

7:34pm Tue 10 Jun 14

Grumpygirl says...

BD16 wrote:
Robin of Loxley wrote:
pcmanners wrote:
Robin of Loxley wrote:
BNP/EDL scum having a field day on this article I see...
Hi Hoffster, you still haven't told me how you get to vote for yourself so many times I make that about 15 every 5 minutes. Its truly awesome the way you have stitched the T&A up.
Hi there PC

As mentioned not too long ago, all you need to have is about a 100 supporters on here (all agreeing with everything you say).

Hope that clears up any confusion.

Regards

D. Hasselhoff.
The gospel of Mark 5:9
In Albion's case it's more likely to be the Foreign one.
[quote][p][bold]BD16[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Robin of Loxley[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pcmanners[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Robin of Loxley[/bold] wrote: BNP/EDL scum having a field day on this article I see...[/p][/quote]Hi Hoffster, you still haven't told me how you get to vote for yourself so many times I make that about 15 every 5 minutes. Its truly awesome the way you have stitched the T&A up.[/p][/quote]Hi there PC As mentioned not too long ago, all you need to have is about a 100 supporters on here (all agreeing with everything you say). Hope that clears up any confusion. Regards D. Hasselhoff.[/p][/quote]The gospel of Mark 5:9[/p][/quote]In Albion's case it's more likely to be the Foreign one. Grumpygirl
  • Score: 1

8:24pm Tue 10 Jun 14

SinnerSaint says...

gouldengirl wrote:
SinnerSaint wrote:
Grumpygirl wrote:
johnh1 wrote:
Free Schools are another ill thought out Tory policy.
Perhaps these people actually thought they were free.
Schools,Water.Gas and Electricity are far too important to allow people with
Personal agenda's to meddle in
Take Education back into local Authority control and teach morals based on Christianity.
Even if you are are not religious the Christian commandments are a good code to live by.
Socialism, which gave us the welfare state, was the direct result of the 19C collision between Christian values and the workings of an unrestrained market.

Islam never really got to terms with social equality which is why the Arab Spring failed so spectacularly. Britain has a choice between British, Christian, socialist values which ultimately hold out the hope of redemption and Sharia with its emphasis on punishment.

To save a lot of post time. When Marx said religion was the opiate of the people, he was rightly criticising the way in which the Victorian Tory classes used religion to manipulate the proletariat. He was not anti-Jesus, or against the basic teaching of Christianity. Far from it. See ‘All things Bright and Beautiful’

The rich man in his castle,
The poor man at his gate,
God made them high and lowly,
And ordered their estate.

to understand what was annoying him.
Arab Spring failed spectacularly? Really?
Egypt. Syria. Lybia. Bahrain. Yemen Hardly paradigms of democratic stability. Tunisia & Morocco maybe, but they had the French legacy.
So it didn't fail spectacularly in all cases did it?

Governments changed in several countries, leaders were deposed and in some countries it WAS a success.
[quote][p][bold]gouldengirl[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]SinnerSaint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Grumpygirl[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]johnh1[/bold] wrote: Free Schools are another ill thought out Tory policy. Perhaps these people actually thought they were free. Schools,Water.Gas and Electricity are far too important to allow people with Personal agenda's to meddle in Take Education back into local Authority control and teach morals based on Christianity. Even if you are are not religious the Christian commandments are a good code to live by.[/p][/quote]Socialism, which gave us the welfare state, was the direct result of the 19C collision between Christian values and the workings of an unrestrained market. Islam never really got to terms with social equality which is why the Arab Spring failed so spectacularly. Britain has a choice between British, Christian, socialist values which ultimately hold out the hope of redemption and Sharia with its emphasis on punishment. To save a lot of post time. When Marx said religion was the opiate of the people, he was rightly criticising the way in which the Victorian Tory classes used religion to manipulate the proletariat. He was not anti-Jesus, or against the basic teaching of Christianity. Far from it. See ‘All things Bright and Beautiful’ The rich man in his castle, The poor man at his gate, God made them high and lowly, And ordered their estate. to understand what was annoying him.[/p][/quote]Arab Spring failed spectacularly? Really?[/p][/quote]Egypt. Syria. Lybia. Bahrain. Yemen Hardly paradigms of democratic stability. Tunisia & Morocco maybe, but they had the French legacy.[/p][/quote]So it didn't fail spectacularly in all cases did it? Governments changed in several countries, leaders were deposed and in some countries it WAS a success. SinnerSaint
  • Score: 0

10:22pm Tue 10 Jun 14

Victor Clayton says...

Robin of Loxley wrote:
pcmanners wrote:
Robin of Loxley wrote:
BNP/EDL scum having a field day on this article I see...
Hi Hoffster, you still haven't told me how you get to vote for yourself so many times I make that about 15 every 5 minutes. Its truly awesome the way you have stitched the T&A up.
Hi there PC

As mentioned not too long ago, all you need to have is about a 100 supporters on here (all agreeing with everything you say).

Hope that clears up any confusion.

Regards

D. Hasselhoff.
Works at pc world.
[quote][p][bold]Robin of Loxley[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pcmanners[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Robin of Loxley[/bold] wrote: BNP/EDL scum having a field day on this article I see...[/p][/quote]Hi Hoffster, you still haven't told me how you get to vote for yourself so many times I make that about 15 every 5 minutes. Its truly awesome the way you have stitched the T&A up.[/p][/quote]Hi there PC As mentioned not too long ago, all you need to have is about a 100 supporters on here (all agreeing with everything you say). Hope that clears up any confusion. Regards D. Hasselhoff.[/p][/quote]Works at pc world. Victor Clayton
  • Score: 4

10:48pm Tue 10 Jun 14

BD16 says...

I see Bradford made the 10 o'clock news again tonight.
I see Bradford made the 10 o'clock news again tonight. BD16
  • Score: 6

7:11am Wed 11 Jun 14

johnh1 says...

Robin of Loxley wrote:
BNP/EDL scum having a field day on this article I see...
So it is true anyone even commenting on these matters are classed as racist scum.
[quote][p][bold]Robin of Loxley[/bold] wrote: BNP/EDL scum having a field day on this article I see...[/p][/quote]So it is true anyone even commenting on these matters are classed as racist scum. johnh1
  • Score: 4

7:55am Wed 11 Jun 14

SinnerSaint says...

johnh1 wrote:
Robin of Loxley wrote:
BNP/EDL scum having a field day on this article I see...
So it is true anyone even commenting on these matters are classed as racist scum.
Yup. That's the general tactic employed by Muslims to prevent even minor criticism of their religion/legal system/way of life dictatorship.
[quote][p][bold]johnh1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Robin of Loxley[/bold] wrote: BNP/EDL scum having a field day on this article I see...[/p][/quote]So it is true anyone even commenting on these matters are classed as racist scum.[/p][/quote]Yup. That's the general tactic employed by Muslims to prevent even minor criticism of their religion/legal system/way of life dictatorship. SinnerSaint
  • Score: 8

8:52am Wed 11 Jun 14

Apollo says...

I see Carlton Bolling has gone the same way as schools in Birmingham.

As for the Kings Academdy scandal we certainly seem to be being told, in advance of the report being published and any prosecutions, that the leadership shown there was not 'fit and proper'.

No shock there then. However, the scandal of the cost of the land rental also needs to be fully investigated. I would say we are owed a considerable amount of money back into the public purse.
I see Carlton Bolling has gone the same way as schools in Birmingham. As for the Kings Academdy scandal we certainly seem to be being told, in advance of the report being published and any prosecutions, that the leadership shown there was not 'fit and proper'. No shock there then. However, the scandal of the cost of the land rental also needs to be fully investigated. I would say we are owed a considerable amount of money back into the public purse. Apollo
  • Score: 2

11:44am Wed 11 Jun 14

Bone_idle18 says...

Apollo wrote:
I see Carlton Bolling has gone the same way as schools in Birmingham.

As for the Kings Academdy scandal we certainly seem to be being told, in advance of the report being published and any prosecutions, that the leadership shown there was not 'fit and proper'.

No shock there then. However, the scandal of the cost of the land rental also needs to be fully investigated. I would say we are owed a considerable amount of money back into the public purse.
I wonder when the T&A will stop ignoring the Carlton Bowling story - the BBC and some of the broadsheets published it on their websites last night, as usual, the T&A are suppressing a news story for whatever reason.
[quote][p][bold]Apollo[/bold] wrote: I see Carlton Bolling has gone the same way as schools in Birmingham. As for the Kings Academdy scandal we certainly seem to be being told, in advance of the report being published and any prosecutions, that the leadership shown there was not 'fit and proper'. No shock there then. However, the scandal of the cost of the land rental also needs to be fully investigated. I would say we are owed a considerable amount of money back into the public purse.[/p][/quote]I wonder when the T&A will stop ignoring the Carlton Bowling story - the BBC and some of the broadsheets published it on their websites last night, as usual, the T&A are suppressing a news story for whatever reason. Bone_idle18
  • Score: 2

12:20pm Wed 11 Jun 14

Apollo says...

Bone_idle18 wrote:
Apollo wrote: I see Carlton Bolling has gone the same way as schools in Birmingham. As for the Kings Academdy scandal we certainly seem to be being told, in advance of the report being published and any prosecutions, that the leadership shown there was not 'fit and proper'. No shock there then. However, the scandal of the cost of the land rental also needs to be fully investigated. I would say we are owed a considerable amount of money back into the public purse.
I wonder when the T&A will stop ignoring the Carlton Bowling story - the BBC and some of the broadsheets published it on their websites last night, as usual, the T&A are suppressing a news story for whatever reason.
You mean the usual reason.
[quote][p][bold]Bone_idle18[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Apollo[/bold] wrote: I see Carlton Bolling has gone the same way as schools in Birmingham. As for the Kings Academdy scandal we certainly seem to be being told, in advance of the report being published and any prosecutions, that the leadership shown there was not 'fit and proper'. No shock there then. However, the scandal of the cost of the land rental also needs to be fully investigated. I would say we are owed a considerable amount of money back into the public purse.[/p][/quote]I wonder when the T&A will stop ignoring the Carlton Bowling story - the BBC and some of the broadsheets published it on their websites last night, as usual, the T&A are suppressing a news story for whatever reason.[/p][/quote]You mean the usual reason. Apollo
  • Score: 2

3:06pm Wed 11 Jun 14

Bone_idle18 says...

Maybe promoting an Islamic agenda is perfectly fin in Bradford!
Maybe promoting an Islamic agenda is perfectly fin in Bradford! Bone_idle18
  • Score: 1

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