Five Bradford area schools among best in the country, new GCSE league tables reveal

Bradford Telegraph and Argus: Five Bradford area schools rank high in GCSE league tables Five Bradford area schools rank high in GCSE league tables

Five secondary schools in the Bradford area rank among the best in the country, league tables for last year’s GCSE and A-Level results show.

But, overall, the results prove to be a mixed bag across the area, with some schools seeing theirs improve while others faring worse than they had the previous year.

The tables published today by the Department for Education are calculated by the number of pupils gaining five or more A*-C grade GCSEs or equivalent qualifications, including English and maths. It also ranks schools for their A-level results and the performance of its vocational students.

When it comes to GCSEs, five local schools are among the top 200 in the country.

Topping the Bradford tables for GCSEs are Bradford Girls' Grammar and Bradford Grammar School. At the girls' grammar 100 per cent of pupils achieved five or more A* to C grades, meaning the school was ranked number one in the district, and number 74th in the UK.

At Bradford Grammar that figure was 99 per cent, earning it a national ranking of 152nd.

But the best-performing school in the area was Heckmondwike Grammar School where 100 per cent of its pupils achieved five A*-Cs, with individual scores ranking it the 5th best in the country.


Other high scoring local schools are Skipton Girls’ High School (85th) with 99 per cent and Ermystead’s Grammar School in Skipton (142nd), also with 99 per cent.
 

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9:46am Thu 23 Jan 14

angry bradfordian says...

I read the headline with surprise & delight when all we read about are constant reports on the poor quality of Bradford's education system.

Sadly, it seems that 2 of the 5 are fee paying schools and Heckmondwike school is actually in Kirklees!
I read the headline with surprise & delight when all we read about are constant reports on the poor quality of Bradford's education system. Sadly, it seems that 2 of the 5 are fee paying schools and Heckmondwike school is actually in Kirklees! angry bradfordian

10:10am Thu 23 Jan 14

Avro says...

Good point.

And where in the league table did the rest of the Bradford secondary schools fall - failing miserably??
Good point. And where in the league table did the rest of the Bradford secondary schools fall - failing miserably?? Avro

10:34am Thu 23 Jan 14

Andy2010 says...

angry bradfordian wrote:
I read the headline with surprise & delight when all we read about are constant reports on the poor quality of Bradford's education system.

Sadly, it seems that 2 of the 5 are fee paying schools and Heckmondwike school is actually in Kirklees!
You get what you pay for unfortunately

The caliber of teachers and everything else at Bradford Grammar are far far better than in state schools
[quote][p][bold]angry bradfordian[/bold] wrote: I read the headline with surprise & delight when all we read about are constant reports on the poor quality of Bradford's education system. Sadly, it seems that 2 of the 5 are fee paying schools and Heckmondwike school is actually in Kirklees![/p][/quote]You get what you pay for unfortunately The caliber of teachers and everything else at Bradford Grammar are far far better than in state schools Andy2010

10:59am Thu 23 Jan 14

DaGeneral says...

Andy2010 wrote:
angry bradfordian wrote:
I read the headline with surprise & delight when all we read about are constant reports on the poor quality of Bradford's education system.

Sadly, it seems that 2 of the 5 are fee paying schools and Heckmondwike school is actually in Kirklees!
You get what you pay for unfortunately

The caliber of teachers and everything else at Bradford Grammar are far far better than in state schools
Agree about the facilities, funding, class sizes and all the cultural capital & positive attitude to learning displayed by all concerned that you inevitably find in Independent, selective, fee paying schools such as BGS and BGGS. I completely refute the idea that the calibre of teaching staff is therefore automatically better. If BGS kids & teachers were dispersed to Bradford's state schools, and its state school teachers were transferred into BGS, I wonder what would happen? It's just not a level playing field under any circumstances and no-one can with any seriousness claim it is.
[quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]angry bradfordian[/bold] wrote: I read the headline with surprise & delight when all we read about are constant reports on the poor quality of Bradford's education system. Sadly, it seems that 2 of the 5 are fee paying schools and Heckmondwike school is actually in Kirklees![/p][/quote]You get what you pay for unfortunately The caliber of teachers and everything else at Bradford Grammar are far far better than in state schools[/p][/quote]Agree about the facilities, funding, class sizes and all the cultural capital & positive attitude to learning displayed by all concerned that you inevitably find in Independent, selective, fee paying schools such as BGS and BGGS. I completely refute the idea that the calibre of teaching staff is therefore automatically better. If BGS kids & teachers were dispersed to Bradford's state schools, and its state school teachers were transferred into BGS, I wonder what would happen? It's just not a level playing field under any circumstances and no-one can with any seriousness claim it is. DaGeneral

11:13am Thu 23 Jan 14

Andy2010 says...

DaGeneral wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
angry bradfordian wrote:
I read the headline with surprise & delight when all we read about are constant reports on the poor quality of Bradford's education system.

Sadly, it seems that 2 of the 5 are fee paying schools and Heckmondwike school is actually in Kirklees!
You get what you pay for unfortunately

The caliber of teachers and everything else at Bradford Grammar are far far better than in state schools
Agree about the facilities, funding, class sizes and all the cultural capital & positive attitude to learning displayed by all concerned that you inevitably find in Independent, selective, fee paying schools such as BGS and BGGS. I completely refute the idea that the calibre of teaching staff is therefore automatically better. If BGS kids & teachers were dispersed to Bradford's state schools, and its state school teachers were transferred into BGS, I wonder what would happen? It's just not a level playing field under any circumstances and no-one can with any seriousness claim it is.
Knowing a couple of state teachers and one that works in a private school I can assure you the level of education and sheer quality of teaching given in "private" is in a different league.

Yes they get paid more but that's because they are better. As I said you get what you pay for
[quote][p][bold]DaGeneral[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]angry bradfordian[/bold] wrote: I read the headline with surprise & delight when all we read about are constant reports on the poor quality of Bradford's education system. Sadly, it seems that 2 of the 5 are fee paying schools and Heckmondwike school is actually in Kirklees![/p][/quote]You get what you pay for unfortunately The caliber of teachers and everything else at Bradford Grammar are far far better than in state schools[/p][/quote]Agree about the facilities, funding, class sizes and all the cultural capital & positive attitude to learning displayed by all concerned that you inevitably find in Independent, selective, fee paying schools such as BGS and BGGS. I completely refute the idea that the calibre of teaching staff is therefore automatically better. If BGS kids & teachers were dispersed to Bradford's state schools, and its state school teachers were transferred into BGS, I wonder what would happen? It's just not a level playing field under any circumstances and no-one can with any seriousness claim it is.[/p][/quote]Knowing a couple of state teachers and one that works in a private school I can assure you the level of education and sheer quality of teaching given in "private" is in a different league. Yes they get paid more but that's because they are better. As I said you get what you pay for Andy2010

11:34am Thu 23 Jan 14

Andy Mac says...

Only one fee-paying school there that I can see, and it didn't come top ! !
Only one fee-paying school there that I can see, and it didn't come top ! ! Andy Mac

11:59am Thu 23 Jan 14

Old Peculiar says...

Andy Mac wrote:
Only one fee-paying school there that I can see, and it didn't come top ! !
Randy Mac speaks the truth - I think previous posters may be surprised to find that BGGS is now a free school :@)
[quote][p][bold]Andy Mac[/bold] wrote: Only one fee-paying school there that I can see, and it didn't come top ! ![/p][/quote]Randy Mac speaks the truth - I think previous posters may be surprised to find that BGGS is now a free school :@) Old Peculiar

12:09pm Thu 23 Jan 14

DaGeneral says...

Andy2010 wrote:
DaGeneral wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
angry bradfordian wrote:
I read the headline with surprise & delight when all we read about are constant reports on the poor quality of Bradford's education system.

Sadly, it seems that 2 of the 5 are fee paying schools and Heckmondwike school is actually in Kirklees!
You get what you pay for unfortunately

The caliber of teachers and everything else at Bradford Grammar are far far better than in state schools
Agree about the facilities, funding, class sizes and all the cultural capital & positive attitude to learning displayed by all concerned that you inevitably find in Independent, selective, fee paying schools such as BGS and BGGS. I completely refute the idea that the calibre of teaching staff is therefore automatically better. If BGS kids & teachers were dispersed to Bradford's state schools, and its state school teachers were transferred into BGS, I wonder what would happen? It's just not a level playing field under any circumstances and no-one can with any seriousness claim it is.
Knowing a couple of state teachers and one that works in a private school I can assure you the level of education and sheer quality of teaching given in "private" is in a different league.

Yes they get paid more but that's because they are better. As I said you get what you pay for
Indeed you do, no debate there. But should you be able to buy it in the first place? And of course the overall experience & quality of what goes on in schools like BGS is in a different league to inner city state schools, just as Barcelona are a better football team than say, Denholme United. For the same reasons. Regarding the "teacher swap" scenario, I also have many teacher friends in both state & private schools - the state school ones would give their right arm to be able to work with BGS's facilities, class sizes & calibre of kids. The private school ones would last about 30 seconds in front of an average state school inner city class and they know it, thanking their lucky stars every day that they work where they do in the circumstances they do. And let's remember that in the grand scheme of things BGS is nowhere near the most privileged of private schools, it's actually quite mixed and diverse, not up itself and elitist.
[quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DaGeneral[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]angry bradfordian[/bold] wrote: I read the headline with surprise & delight when all we read about are constant reports on the poor quality of Bradford's education system. Sadly, it seems that 2 of the 5 are fee paying schools and Heckmondwike school is actually in Kirklees![/p][/quote]You get what you pay for unfortunately The caliber of teachers and everything else at Bradford Grammar are far far better than in state schools[/p][/quote]Agree about the facilities, funding, class sizes and all the cultural capital & positive attitude to learning displayed by all concerned that you inevitably find in Independent, selective, fee paying schools such as BGS and BGGS. I completely refute the idea that the calibre of teaching staff is therefore automatically better. If BGS kids & teachers were dispersed to Bradford's state schools, and its state school teachers were transferred into BGS, I wonder what would happen? It's just not a level playing field under any circumstances and no-one can with any seriousness claim it is.[/p][/quote]Knowing a couple of state teachers and one that works in a private school I can assure you the level of education and sheer quality of teaching given in "private" is in a different league. Yes they get paid more but that's because they are better. As I said you get what you pay for[/p][/quote]Indeed you do, no debate there. But should you be able to buy it in the first place? And of course the overall experience & quality of what goes on in schools like BGS is in a different league to inner city state schools, just as Barcelona are a better football team than say, Denholme United. For the same reasons. Regarding the "teacher swap" scenario, I also have many teacher friends in both state & private schools - the state school ones would give their right arm to be able to work with BGS's facilities, class sizes & calibre of kids. The private school ones would last about 30 seconds in front of an average state school inner city class and they know it, thanking their lucky stars every day that they work where they do in the circumstances they do. And let's remember that in the grand scheme of things BGS is nowhere near the most privileged of private schools, it's actually quite mixed and diverse, not up itself and elitist. DaGeneral

12:13pm Thu 23 Jan 14

Joedavid says...

DaGeneral wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
DaGeneral wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
angry bradfordian wrote: I read the headline with surprise & delight when all we read about are constant reports on the poor quality of Bradford's education system. Sadly, it seems that 2 of the 5 are fee paying schools and Heckmondwike school is actually in Kirklees!
You get what you pay for unfortunately The caliber of teachers and everything else at Bradford Grammar are far far better than in state schools
Agree about the facilities, funding, class sizes and all the cultural capital & positive attitude to learning displayed by all concerned that you inevitably find in Independent, selective, fee paying schools such as BGS and BGGS. I completely refute the idea that the calibre of teaching staff is therefore automatically better. If BGS kids & teachers were dispersed to Bradford's state schools, and its state school teachers were transferred into BGS, I wonder what would happen? It's just not a level playing field under any circumstances and no-one can with any seriousness claim it is.
Knowing a couple of state teachers and one that works in a private school I can assure you the level of education and sheer quality of teaching given in "private" is in a different league. Yes they get paid more but that's because they are better. As I said you get what you pay for
Indeed you do, no debate there. But should you be able to buy it in the first place? And of course the overall experience & quality of what goes on in schools like BGS is in a different league to inner city state schools, just as Barcelona are a better football team than say, Denholme United. For the same reasons. Regarding the "teacher swap" scenario, I also have many teacher friends in both state & private schools - the state school ones would give their right arm to be able to work with BGS's facilities, class sizes & calibre of kids. The private school ones would last about 30 seconds in front of an average state school inner city class and they know it, thanking their lucky stars every day that they work where they do in the circumstances they do. And let's remember that in the grand scheme of things BGS is nowhere near the most privileged of private schools, it's actually quite mixed and diverse, not up itself and elitist.
Many of us were brought up in council run grammar schools maybe time to bring them back then.
[quote][p][bold]DaGeneral[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DaGeneral[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]angry bradfordian[/bold] wrote: I read the headline with surprise & delight when all we read about are constant reports on the poor quality of Bradford's education system. Sadly, it seems that 2 of the 5 are fee paying schools and Heckmondwike school is actually in Kirklees![/p][/quote]You get what you pay for unfortunately The caliber of teachers and everything else at Bradford Grammar are far far better than in state schools[/p][/quote]Agree about the facilities, funding, class sizes and all the cultural capital & positive attitude to learning displayed by all concerned that you inevitably find in Independent, selective, fee paying schools such as BGS and BGGS. I completely refute the idea that the calibre of teaching staff is therefore automatically better. If BGS kids & teachers were dispersed to Bradford's state schools, and its state school teachers were transferred into BGS, I wonder what would happen? It's just not a level playing field under any circumstances and no-one can with any seriousness claim it is.[/p][/quote]Knowing a couple of state teachers and one that works in a private school I can assure you the level of education and sheer quality of teaching given in "private" is in a different league. Yes they get paid more but that's because they are better. As I said you get what you pay for[/p][/quote]Indeed you do, no debate there. But should you be able to buy it in the first place? And of course the overall experience & quality of what goes on in schools like BGS is in a different league to inner city state schools, just as Barcelona are a better football team than say, Denholme United. For the same reasons. Regarding the "teacher swap" scenario, I also have many teacher friends in both state & private schools - the state school ones would give their right arm to be able to work with BGS's facilities, class sizes & calibre of kids. The private school ones would last about 30 seconds in front of an average state school inner city class and they know it, thanking their lucky stars every day that they work where they do in the circumstances they do. And let's remember that in the grand scheme of things BGS is nowhere near the most privileged of private schools, it's actually quite mixed and diverse, not up itself and elitist.[/p][/quote]Many of us were brought up in council run grammar schools maybe time to bring them back then. Joedavid

12:14pm Thu 23 Jan 14

RollandSmoke says...

Andy2010 wrote:
DaGeneral wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
angry bradfordian wrote:
I read the headline with surprise & delight when all we read about are constant reports on the poor quality of Bradford's education system.

Sadly, it seems that 2 of the 5 are fee paying schools and Heckmondwike school is actually in Kirklees!
You get what you pay for unfortunately

The caliber of teachers and everything else at Bradford Grammar are far far better than in state schools
Agree about the facilities, funding, class sizes and all the cultural capital & positive attitude to learning displayed by all concerned that you inevitably find in Independent, selective, fee paying schools such as BGS and BGGS. I completely refute the idea that the calibre of teaching staff is therefore automatically better. If BGS kids & teachers were dispersed to Bradford's state schools, and its state school teachers were transferred into BGS, I wonder what would happen? It's just not a level playing field under any circumstances and no-one can with any seriousness claim it is.
Knowing a couple of state teachers and one that works in a private school I can assure you the level of education and sheer quality of teaching given in "private" is in a different league.

Yes they get paid more but that's because they are better. As I said you get what you pay for
Is that why you and your ilk demand that we should all be paying less and less for the services that you then complain about when they fail? I know you enjoy blaming the kids or their parents for their lack of success but it's obvious as to the real reasons behind it. Our children, regardless of their background, are too important an asset to be used as a political football. When the schools fail then it effects the life chances of the children and the future economic prosperity of the area as a whole. But you've got to keep the poor in their place haven't you?. Give them nothing then complain that they aren't doing enough with it. It doesn't even take an understanding of economics to realise why these false economies are delivering the results they do.
[quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DaGeneral[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]angry bradfordian[/bold] wrote: I read the headline with surprise & delight when all we read about are constant reports on the poor quality of Bradford's education system. Sadly, it seems that 2 of the 5 are fee paying schools and Heckmondwike school is actually in Kirklees![/p][/quote]You get what you pay for unfortunately The caliber of teachers and everything else at Bradford Grammar are far far better than in state schools[/p][/quote]Agree about the facilities, funding, class sizes and all the cultural capital & positive attitude to learning displayed by all concerned that you inevitably find in Independent, selective, fee paying schools such as BGS and BGGS. I completely refute the idea that the calibre of teaching staff is therefore automatically better. If BGS kids & teachers were dispersed to Bradford's state schools, and its state school teachers were transferred into BGS, I wonder what would happen? It's just not a level playing field under any circumstances and no-one can with any seriousness claim it is.[/p][/quote]Knowing a couple of state teachers and one that works in a private school I can assure you the level of education and sheer quality of teaching given in "private" is in a different league. Yes they get paid more but that's because they are better. As I said you get what you pay for[/p][/quote]Is that why you and your ilk demand that we should all be paying less and less for the services that you then complain about when they fail? I know you enjoy blaming the kids or their parents for their lack of success but it's obvious as to the real reasons behind it. Our children, regardless of their background, are too important an asset to be used as a political football. When the schools fail then it effects the life chances of the children and the future economic prosperity of the area as a whole. But you've got to keep the poor in their place haven't you?. Give them nothing then complain that they aren't doing enough with it. It doesn't even take an understanding of economics to realise why these false economies are delivering the results they do. RollandSmoke

12:18pm Thu 23 Jan 14

Bulls82 says...

Andy2010 wrote:
DaGeneral wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
angry bradfordian wrote:
I read the headline with surprise & delight when all we read about are constant reports on the poor quality of Bradford's education system.

Sadly, it seems that 2 of the 5 are fee paying schools and Heckmondwike school is actually in Kirklees!
You get what you pay for unfortunately

The caliber of teachers and everything else at Bradford Grammar are far far better than in state schools
Agree about the facilities, funding, class sizes and all the cultural capital & positive attitude to learning displayed by all concerned that you inevitably find in Independent, selective, fee paying schools such as BGS and BGGS. I completely refute the idea that the calibre of teaching staff is therefore automatically better. If BGS kids & teachers were dispersed to Bradford's state schools, and its state school teachers were transferred into BGS, I wonder what would happen? It's just not a level playing field under any circumstances and no-one can with any seriousness claim it is.
Knowing a couple of state teachers and one that works in a private school I can assure you the level of education and sheer quality of teaching given in "private" is in a different league.

Yes they get paid more but that's because they are better. As I said you get what you pay for
It is unfair to state that the quality of teaching in private schools is in a different league to that in state schools. Different schools and different pupils present different challenges to teachers; as DaGeneral says it is not a level playing field.

Perhaps the reason behind the success of the selective schools (fee paying or otherwise) is that their teachers do not have to cater for as broad a spectrum of ability, and possibly (but not necessarily) a willingness to learn as teachers in a state school have to, thus ensuring that a greater percentage of students benefit from the lessons being taught at the appropriate level.
[quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DaGeneral[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]angry bradfordian[/bold] wrote: I read the headline with surprise & delight when all we read about are constant reports on the poor quality of Bradford's education system. Sadly, it seems that 2 of the 5 are fee paying schools and Heckmondwike school is actually in Kirklees![/p][/quote]You get what you pay for unfortunately The caliber of teachers and everything else at Bradford Grammar are far far better than in state schools[/p][/quote]Agree about the facilities, funding, class sizes and all the cultural capital & positive attitude to learning displayed by all concerned that you inevitably find in Independent, selective, fee paying schools such as BGS and BGGS. I completely refute the idea that the calibre of teaching staff is therefore automatically better. If BGS kids & teachers were dispersed to Bradford's state schools, and its state school teachers were transferred into BGS, I wonder what would happen? It's just not a level playing field under any circumstances and no-one can with any seriousness claim it is.[/p][/quote]Knowing a couple of state teachers and one that works in a private school I can assure you the level of education and sheer quality of teaching given in "private" is in a different league. Yes they get paid more but that's because they are better. As I said you get what you pay for[/p][/quote]It is unfair to state that the quality of teaching in private schools is in a different league to that in state schools. Different schools and different pupils present different challenges to teachers; as DaGeneral says it is not a level playing field. Perhaps the reason behind the success of the selective schools (fee paying or otherwise) is that their teachers do not have to cater for as broad a spectrum of ability, and possibly (but not necessarily) a willingness to learn as teachers in a state school have to, thus ensuring that a greater percentage of students benefit from the lessons being taught at the appropriate level. Bulls82

12:29pm Thu 23 Jan 14

Andy2010 says...

RollandSmoke wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
DaGeneral wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
angry bradfordian wrote:
I read the headline with surprise & delight when all we read about are constant reports on the poor quality of Bradford's education system.

Sadly, it seems that 2 of the 5 are fee paying schools and Heckmondwike school is actually in Kirklees!
You get what you pay for unfortunately

The caliber of teachers and everything else at Bradford Grammar are far far better than in state schools
Agree about the facilities, funding, class sizes and all the cultural capital & positive attitude to learning displayed by all concerned that you inevitably find in Independent, selective, fee paying schools such as BGS and BGGS. I completely refute the idea that the calibre of teaching staff is therefore automatically better. If BGS kids & teachers were dispersed to Bradford's state schools, and its state school teachers were transferred into BGS, I wonder what would happen? It's just not a level playing field under any circumstances and no-one can with any seriousness claim it is.
Knowing a couple of state teachers and one that works in a private school I can assure you the level of education and sheer quality of teaching given in "private" is in a different league.

Yes they get paid more but that's because they are better. As I said you get what you pay for
Is that why you and your ilk demand that we should all be paying less and less for the services that you then complain about when they fail? I know you enjoy blaming the kids or their parents for their lack of success but it's obvious as to the real reasons behind it. Our children, regardless of their background, are too important an asset to be used as a political football. When the schools fail then it effects the life chances of the children and the future economic prosperity of the area as a whole. But you've got to keep the poor in their place haven't you?. Give them nothing then complain that they aren't doing enough with it. It doesn't even take an understanding of economics to realise why these false economies are delivering the results they do.
eh?

I was simply stating that knowing a few teachers that the private school ones are better educated, more qualified and in general better teachers. That's just an opinion.

Obviously more balanced responses have been posted which I agree with about the level playing fields etc.

I'll await your next post blaming the Tories or something along those lines
[quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DaGeneral[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]angry bradfordian[/bold] wrote: I read the headline with surprise & delight when all we read about are constant reports on the poor quality of Bradford's education system. Sadly, it seems that 2 of the 5 are fee paying schools and Heckmondwike school is actually in Kirklees![/p][/quote]You get what you pay for unfortunately The caliber of teachers and everything else at Bradford Grammar are far far better than in state schools[/p][/quote]Agree about the facilities, funding, class sizes and all the cultural capital & positive attitude to learning displayed by all concerned that you inevitably find in Independent, selective, fee paying schools such as BGS and BGGS. I completely refute the idea that the calibre of teaching staff is therefore automatically better. If BGS kids & teachers were dispersed to Bradford's state schools, and its state school teachers were transferred into BGS, I wonder what would happen? It's just not a level playing field under any circumstances and no-one can with any seriousness claim it is.[/p][/quote]Knowing a couple of state teachers and one that works in a private school I can assure you the level of education and sheer quality of teaching given in "private" is in a different league. Yes they get paid more but that's because they are better. As I said you get what you pay for[/p][/quote]Is that why you and your ilk demand that we should all be paying less and less for the services that you then complain about when they fail? I know you enjoy blaming the kids or their parents for their lack of success but it's obvious as to the real reasons behind it. Our children, regardless of their background, are too important an asset to be used as a political football. When the schools fail then it effects the life chances of the children and the future economic prosperity of the area as a whole. But you've got to keep the poor in their place haven't you?. Give them nothing then complain that they aren't doing enough with it. It doesn't even take an understanding of economics to realise why these false economies are delivering the results they do.[/p][/quote]eh? I was simply stating that knowing a few teachers that the private school ones are better educated, more qualified and in general better teachers. That's just an opinion. Obviously more balanced responses have been posted which I agree with about the level playing fields etc. I'll await your next post blaming the Tories or something along those lines Andy2010

12:55pm Thu 23 Jan 14

RollandSmoke says...

Andy2010 wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
DaGeneral wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
angry bradfordian wrote:
I read the headline with surprise & delight when all we read about are constant reports on the poor quality of Bradford's education system.

Sadly, it seems that 2 of the 5 are fee paying schools and Heckmondwike school is actually in Kirklees!
You get what you pay for unfortunately

The caliber of teachers and everything else at Bradford Grammar are far far better than in state schools
Agree about the facilities, funding, class sizes and all the cultural capital & positive attitude to learning displayed by all concerned that you inevitably find in Independent, selective, fee paying schools such as BGS and BGGS. I completely refute the idea that the calibre of teaching staff is therefore automatically better. If BGS kids & teachers were dispersed to Bradford's state schools, and its state school teachers were transferred into BGS, I wonder what would happen? It's just not a level playing field under any circumstances and no-one can with any seriousness claim it is.
Knowing a couple of state teachers and one that works in a private school I can assure you the level of education and sheer quality of teaching given in "private" is in a different league.

Yes they get paid more but that's because they are better. As I said you get what you pay for
Is that why you and your ilk demand that we should all be paying less and less for the services that you then complain about when they fail? I know you enjoy blaming the kids or their parents for their lack of success but it's obvious as to the real reasons behind it. Our children, regardless of their background, are too important an asset to be used as a political football. When the schools fail then it effects the life chances of the children and the future economic prosperity of the area as a whole. But you've got to keep the poor in their place haven't you?. Give them nothing then complain that they aren't doing enough with it. It doesn't even take an understanding of economics to realise why these false economies are delivering the results they do.
eh?

I was simply stating that knowing a few teachers that the private school ones are better educated, more qualified and in general better teachers. That's just an opinion.

Obviously more balanced responses have been posted which I agree with about the level playing fields etc.

I'll await your next post blaming the Tories or something along those lines
Why would I blame the Tories? They're obviously concerned about the welfare and education of the children who are missing out in life due to their lack of understanding of Latin. Well played Micheal Gove I wouldn't have thought of that one in a month of Sundays.
[quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DaGeneral[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]angry bradfordian[/bold] wrote: I read the headline with surprise & delight when all we read about are constant reports on the poor quality of Bradford's education system. Sadly, it seems that 2 of the 5 are fee paying schools and Heckmondwike school is actually in Kirklees![/p][/quote]You get what you pay for unfortunately The caliber of teachers and everything else at Bradford Grammar are far far better than in state schools[/p][/quote]Agree about the facilities, funding, class sizes and all the cultural capital & positive attitude to learning displayed by all concerned that you inevitably find in Independent, selective, fee paying schools such as BGS and BGGS. I completely refute the idea that the calibre of teaching staff is therefore automatically better. If BGS kids & teachers were dispersed to Bradford's state schools, and its state school teachers were transferred into BGS, I wonder what would happen? It's just not a level playing field under any circumstances and no-one can with any seriousness claim it is.[/p][/quote]Knowing a couple of state teachers and one that works in a private school I can assure you the level of education and sheer quality of teaching given in "private" is in a different league. Yes they get paid more but that's because they are better. As I said you get what you pay for[/p][/quote]Is that why you and your ilk demand that we should all be paying less and less for the services that you then complain about when they fail? I know you enjoy blaming the kids or their parents for their lack of success but it's obvious as to the real reasons behind it. Our children, regardless of their background, are too important an asset to be used as a political football. When the schools fail then it effects the life chances of the children and the future economic prosperity of the area as a whole. But you've got to keep the poor in their place haven't you?. Give them nothing then complain that they aren't doing enough with it. It doesn't even take an understanding of economics to realise why these false economies are delivering the results they do.[/p][/quote]eh? I was simply stating that knowing a few teachers that the private school ones are better educated, more qualified and in general better teachers. That's just an opinion. Obviously more balanced responses have been posted which I agree with about the level playing fields etc. I'll await your next post blaming the Tories or something along those lines[/p][/quote]Why would I blame the Tories? They're obviously concerned about the welfare and education of the children who are missing out in life due to their lack of understanding of Latin. Well played Micheal Gove I wouldn't have thought of that one in a month of Sundays. RollandSmoke

1:04pm Thu 23 Jan 14

DaGeneral says...

Andy2010 wrote:
RollandSmoke wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
DaGeneral wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
angry bradfordian wrote:
I read the headline with surprise & delight when all we read about are constant reports on the poor quality of Bradford's education system.

Sadly, it seems that 2 of the 5 are fee paying schools and Heckmondwike school is actually in Kirklees!
You get what you pay for unfortunately

The caliber of teachers and everything else at Bradford Grammar are far far better than in state schools
Agree about the facilities, funding, class sizes and all the cultural capital & positive attitude to learning displayed by all concerned that you inevitably find in Independent, selective, fee paying schools such as BGS and BGGS. I completely refute the idea that the calibre of teaching staff is therefore automatically better. If BGS kids & teachers were dispersed to Bradford's state schools, and its state school teachers were transferred into BGS, I wonder what would happen? It's just not a level playing field under any circumstances and no-one can with any seriousness claim it is.
Knowing a couple of state teachers and one that works in a private school I can assure you the level of education and sheer quality of teaching given in "private" is in a different league.

Yes they get paid more but that's because they are better. As I said you get what you pay for
Is that why you and your ilk demand that we should all be paying less and less for the services that you then complain about when they fail? I know you enjoy blaming the kids or their parents for their lack of success but it's obvious as to the real reasons behind it. Our children, regardless of their background, are too important an asset to be used as a political football. When the schools fail then it effects the life chances of the children and the future economic prosperity of the area as a whole. But you've got to keep the poor in their place haven't you?. Give them nothing then complain that they aren't doing enough with it. It doesn't even take an understanding of economics to realise why these false economies are delivering the results they do.
eh?

I was simply stating that knowing a few teachers that the private school ones are better educated, more qualified and in general better teachers. That's just an opinion.

Obviously more balanced responses have been posted which I agree with about the level playing fields etc.

I'll await your next post blaming the Tories or something along those lines
Define "better educated" and "better teachers"? Some of the best teachers I ever had were what you could nowadays call "badly educated" - certainly before it became a graduate profession. Conversely, by far and away the worst teachers I ever had, up as far as postgraduate study, were "highly qualified" academic "experts" in their fields from elite universities but who couldn't communicate their ideas with other human beings and certainly commanded no respect from state school kids. It's highly debatable whether having a load of academic qualifications makes you a charismatic, engaging educator, role model or leader, especially in mainstream education. Just look at that programme on BBC 3 at the moment, they're all "highly qualified" and are clearly expecting the kids to hang on their every word as a result, it doesn't work like that. This goes to the heart of the debate here again about the existence of basically a "ruling class" that the unfair and unequal system ensures carries on. And I blame the Labour Champagne Socialists for all this just as much as the Tories by the way, no party politics here!
[quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RollandSmoke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DaGeneral[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]angry bradfordian[/bold] wrote: I read the headline with surprise & delight when all we read about are constant reports on the poor quality of Bradford's education system. Sadly, it seems that 2 of the 5 are fee paying schools and Heckmondwike school is actually in Kirklees![/p][/quote]You get what you pay for unfortunately The caliber of teachers and everything else at Bradford Grammar are far far better than in state schools[/p][/quote]Agree about the facilities, funding, class sizes and all the cultural capital & positive attitude to learning displayed by all concerned that you inevitably find in Independent, selective, fee paying schools such as BGS and BGGS. I completely refute the idea that the calibre of teaching staff is therefore automatically better. If BGS kids & teachers were dispersed to Bradford's state schools, and its state school teachers were transferred into BGS, I wonder what would happen? It's just not a level playing field under any circumstances and no-one can with any seriousness claim it is.[/p][/quote]Knowing a couple of state teachers and one that works in a private school I can assure you the level of education and sheer quality of teaching given in "private" is in a different league. Yes they get paid more but that's because they are better. As I said you get what you pay for[/p][/quote]Is that why you and your ilk demand that we should all be paying less and less for the services that you then complain about when they fail? I know you enjoy blaming the kids or their parents for their lack of success but it's obvious as to the real reasons behind it. Our children, regardless of their background, are too important an asset to be used as a political football. When the schools fail then it effects the life chances of the children and the future economic prosperity of the area as a whole. But you've got to keep the poor in their place haven't you?. Give them nothing then complain that they aren't doing enough with it. It doesn't even take an understanding of economics to realise why these false economies are delivering the results they do.[/p][/quote]eh? I was simply stating that knowing a few teachers that the private school ones are better educated, more qualified and in general better teachers. That's just an opinion. Obviously more balanced responses have been posted which I agree with about the level playing fields etc. I'll await your next post blaming the Tories or something along those lines[/p][/quote]Define "better educated" and "better teachers"? Some of the best teachers I ever had were what you could nowadays call "badly educated" - certainly before it became a graduate profession. Conversely, by far and away the worst teachers I ever had, up as far as postgraduate study, were "highly qualified" academic "experts" in their fields from elite universities but who couldn't communicate their ideas with other human beings and certainly commanded no respect from state school kids. It's highly debatable whether having a load of academic qualifications makes you a charismatic, engaging educator, role model or leader, especially in mainstream education. Just look at that programme on BBC 3 at the moment, they're all "highly qualified" and are clearly expecting the kids to hang on their every word as a result, it doesn't work like that. This goes to the heart of the debate here again about the existence of basically a "ruling class" that the unfair and unequal system ensures carries on. And I blame the Labour Champagne Socialists for all this just as much as the Tories by the way, no party politics here! DaGeneral

1:44pm Thu 23 Jan 14

The Hoffster says...

No schools mentioned in BNP/EDL hell-holes (i.e. the local dumps known as 'council estates')?

Now *there's* a surprise.... (not).
No schools mentioned in BNP/EDL hell-holes (i.e. the local dumps known as 'council estates')? Now *there's* a surprise.... (not). The Hoffster

1:51pm Thu 23 Jan 14

AB11 says...

To give you the other point of view, I went to private school for a few years (Bradford Grammar), then switched to state school. I left with 14 GCSE's, all A's and A*s. My old class mates at private school got 8. I also think I'm a more rounded person having been to state school. Every person at my state school was entered for between 8 and 14 GCSE's, at the Grammar School, they only did 8. Much easier to get a 100% pass rate when you have fewer pupils sitting fewer exams. I don't think it is down to having better teacher's, I had a much more inspirational bunch after leaving private school. And when you make everyone sit an entrance exam before joining so that you only take the cleverest pupils, well what can you expect? I think quoting private schools in this article as being above average means squat to most people in Bradford who could never in a million years send their kids there!
To give you the other point of view, I went to private school for a few years (Bradford Grammar), then switched to state school. I left with 14 GCSE's, all A's and A*s. My old class mates at private school got 8. I also think I'm a more rounded person having been to state school. Every person at my state school was entered for between 8 and 14 GCSE's, at the Grammar School, they only did 8. Much easier to get a 100% pass rate when you have fewer pupils sitting fewer exams. I don't think it is down to having better teacher's, I had a much more inspirational bunch after leaving private school. And when you make everyone sit an entrance exam before joining so that you only take the cleverest pupils, well what can you expect? I think quoting private schools in this article as being above average means squat to most people in Bradford who could never in a million years send their kids there! AB11

1:58pm Thu 23 Jan 14

Old Dave says...

As long as society makes excuses and find scapegoats, no progress will be made.
Many of the kids in the "worst schools" don't aspire to be better because they can see people who had no education prospering through crime. its one big picture that needs tackling, not lots of little ones.

As long as we have a government encouraging private businesses to runs schools, rather than proper investment in a public system, it will fail!
As long as society makes excuses and find scapegoats, no progress will be made. Many of the kids in the "worst schools" don't aspire to be better because they can see people who had no education prospering through crime. its one big picture that needs tackling, not lots of little ones. As long as we have a government encouraging private businesses to runs schools, rather than proper investment in a public system, it will fail! Old Dave

2:02pm Thu 23 Jan 14

Old Dave says...

The best teachers are not always the ones who are most intelligent.
Teaching in itself is a skill.
Its like saying the best footballers always make the best coaches. Not true!
The best teachers are not always the ones who are most intelligent. Teaching in itself is a skill. Its like saying the best footballers always make the best coaches. Not true! Old Dave

2:06pm Thu 23 Jan 14

DaGeneral says...

The Hoffster wrote:
No schools mentioned in BNP/EDL hell-holes (i.e. the local dumps known as 'council estates')?

Now *there's* a surprise.... (not).
And in he wades... No schools mentioned by name at all as far as I can see (apart from BGS), PLEASE let's not turn this into a race / ethnicity issue because it isn't, it's about class based inequalities. A glance at the league tables (that's if you believe them to yield any useful info) reveals educational failure in deprived white and non-white communities.
[quote][p][bold]The Hoffster[/bold] wrote: No schools mentioned in BNP/EDL hell-holes (i.e. the local dumps known as 'council estates')? Now *there's* a surprise.... (not).[/p][/quote]And in he wades... No schools mentioned by name at all as far as I can see (apart from BGS), PLEASE let's not turn this into a race / ethnicity issue because it isn't, it's about class based inequalities. A glance at the league tables (that's if you believe them to yield any useful info) reveals educational failure in deprived white and non-white communities. DaGeneral

3:41pm Thu 23 Jan 14

Old Peculiar says...

The Hoffster wrote:
No schools mentioned in BNP/EDL hell-holes (i.e. the local dumps known as 'council estates')? Now *there's* a surprise.... (not).
The two Bradford schools that are named (BGS and BGGS) as being high performers have been in their current locations long before anybody had heard of BNP / EDL. But unfortunately Bradford has always had more than it's fair share of idiots........ Hoffster's presence confirms this.
[quote][p][bold]The Hoffster[/bold] wrote: No schools mentioned in BNP/EDL hell-holes (i.e. the local dumps known as 'council estates')? Now *there's* a surprise.... (not).[/p][/quote]The two Bradford schools that are named (BGS and BGGS) as being high performers have been in their current locations long before anybody had heard of BNP / EDL. But unfortunately Bradford has always had more than it's fair share of idiots........ Hoffster's presence confirms this. Old Peculiar

4:20pm Thu 23 Jan 14

The Hoffster says...

Old Peculiar wrote:
The Hoffster wrote:
No schools mentioned in BNP/EDL hell-holes (i.e. the local dumps known as 'council estates')? Now *there's* a surprise.... (not).
The two Bradford schools that are named (BGS and BGGS) as being high performers have been in their current locations long before anybody had heard of BNP / EDL. But unfortunately Bradford has always had more than it's fair share of idiots........ Hoffster's presence confirms this.
I disagree most vehemently.
[quote][p][bold]Old Peculiar[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Hoffster[/bold] wrote: No schools mentioned in BNP/EDL hell-holes (i.e. the local dumps known as 'council estates')? Now *there's* a surprise.... (not).[/p][/quote]The two Bradford schools that are named (BGS and BGGS) as being high performers have been in their current locations long before anybody had heard of BNP / EDL. But unfortunately Bradford has always had more than it's fair share of idiots........ Hoffster's presence confirms this.[/p][/quote]I disagree most vehemently. The Hoffster

4:44pm Thu 23 Jan 14

Apollo says...

angry bradfordian wrote:
I read the headline with surprise & delight when all we read about are constant reports on the poor quality of Bradford's education system. Sadly, it seems that 2 of the 5 are fee paying schools and Heckmondwike school is actually in Kirklees!
Indeed - hardly representative of the whole of Bradford even if technically 'in the area'.

And what on Earth is that fool Hoffster going on about? At least his meanderings do represent the results of failing schools in Bradford - being a classic example himself.
[quote][p][bold]angry bradfordian[/bold] wrote: I read the headline with surprise & delight when all we read about are constant reports on the poor quality of Bradford's education system. Sadly, it seems that 2 of the 5 are fee paying schools and Heckmondwike school is actually in Kirklees![/p][/quote]Indeed - hardly representative of the whole of Bradford even if technically 'in the area'. And what on Earth is that fool Hoffster going on about? At least his meanderings do represent the results of failing schools in Bradford - being a classic example himself. Apollo

4:51pm Thu 23 Jan 14

ivegate says...

Unfortunately in Bradford private education is the only way forward, the whole city is backward and if you think the cost of education is too expensive dont pay it , sit back and await.....your bill for ignorance
Unfortunately in Bradford private education is the only way forward, the whole city is backward and if you think the cost of education is too expensive dont pay it , sit back and await.....your bill for ignorance ivegate

4:56pm Thu 23 Jan 14

tinytoonster says...

how come all the so called fantastic academy's they made everybody become are not top?!!
how come all the so called fantastic academy's they made everybody become are not top?!! tinytoonster

5:23pm Thu 23 Jan 14

RollandSmoke says...

ivegate wrote:
Unfortunately in Bradford private education is the only way forward, the whole city is backward and if you think the cost of education is too expensive dont pay it , sit back and await.....your bill for ignorance
The problem is that very few can afford it and every taxpayer in the country is already paying for education (despite the fact that many schools are now run by private corporations). When the education system fails then we all pay the costs. Children are not automatically more intelligent because their parents earn more money. Every child has the right to an equal chance in life. Denying that right to all but the wealthy merely creates further problems later in life combined with the additional costs involved involved in supporting an adult who's lack of a decent education makes them unemployable.
[quote][p][bold]ivegate[/bold] wrote: Unfortunately in Bradford private education is the only way forward, the whole city is backward and if you think the cost of education is too expensive dont pay it , sit back and await.....your bill for ignorance[/p][/quote]The problem is that very few can afford it and every taxpayer in the country is already paying for education (despite the fact that many schools are now run by private corporations). When the education system fails then we all pay the costs. Children are not automatically more intelligent because their parents earn more money. Every child has the right to an equal chance in life. Denying that right to all but the wealthy merely creates further problems later in life combined with the additional costs involved involved in supporting an adult who's lack of a decent education makes them unemployable. RollandSmoke

5:26pm Thu 23 Jan 14

stiflers mom says...

The Hoffster wrote:
No schools mentioned in BNP/EDL hell-holes (i.e. the local dumps known as 'council estates')?

Now *there's* a surprise.... (not).
I totally agree my friend your so right about the local dumps such as manningham,barkerend
,girlington,west bowling,heaton , bradford moor ect, i did not know that they were council estates though , now there,s a suprise ....
[quote][p][bold]The Hoffster[/bold] wrote: No schools mentioned in BNP/EDL hell-holes (i.e. the local dumps known as 'council estates')? Now *there's* a surprise.... (not).[/p][/quote]I totally agree my friend your so right about the local dumps such as manningham,barkerend ,girlington,west bowling,heaton , bradford moor ect, i did not know that they were council estates though , now there,s a suprise .... stiflers mom

9:09pm Thu 23 Jan 14

Soapboxcity says...

Aren't the two Bradford ones fee paying ( no guarantee of brains)? The two in Skipton have an 11+ entrance exam and select a limited number of the highest scoring children.
Aren't the two Bradford ones fee paying ( no guarantee of brains)? The two in Skipton have an 11+ entrance exam and select a limited number of the highest scoring children. Soapboxcity

10:41pm Thu 23 Jan 14

thornburyph says...

stiflers mom wrote:
The Hoffster wrote:
No schools mentioned in BNP/EDL hell-holes (i.e. the local dumps known as 'council estates')?

Now *there's* a surprise.... (not).
I totally agree my friend your so right about the local dumps such as manningham,barkerend

,girlington,west bowling,heaton , bradford moor ect, i did not know that they were council estates though , now there,s a suprise ....
And BGS ... BGGS are in which area ??????
[quote][p][bold]stiflers mom[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Hoffster[/bold] wrote: No schools mentioned in BNP/EDL hell-holes (i.e. the local dumps known as 'council estates')? Now *there's* a surprise.... (not).[/p][/quote]I totally agree my friend your so right about the local dumps such as manningham,barkerend ,girlington,west bowling,heaton , bradford moor ect, i did not know that they were council estates though , now there,s a suprise ....[/p][/quote]And BGS ... BGGS are in which area ?????? thornburyph

2:25am Fri 24 Jan 14

ivegate says...

thornburyph wrote:
stiflers mom wrote:
The Hoffster wrote: No schools mentioned in BNP/EDL hell-holes (i.e. the local dumps known as 'council estates')? Now *there's* a surprise.... (not).
I totally agree my friend your so right about the local dumps such as manningham,barkerend ,girlington,west bowling,heaton , bradford moor ect, i did not know that they were council estates though , now there,s a suprise ....
And BGS ... BGGS are in which area ??????
And the demographics of pupils attending BGS /BGGS are?

Bill for ignorance is in the post.
[quote][p][bold]thornburyph[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]stiflers mom[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Hoffster[/bold] wrote: No schools mentioned in BNP/EDL hell-holes (i.e. the local dumps known as 'council estates')? Now *there's* a surprise.... (not).[/p][/quote]I totally agree my friend your so right about the local dumps such as manningham,barkerend ,girlington,west bowling,heaton , bradford moor ect, i did not know that they were council estates though , now there,s a suprise ....[/p][/quote]And BGS ... BGGS are in which area ??????[/p][/quote]And the demographics of pupils attending BGS /BGGS are? Bill for ignorance is in the post. ivegate

1:38am Sat 25 Jan 14

Makollig Jezvahted says...

AB11 wrote:
To give you the other point of view, I went to private school for a few years (Bradford Grammar), then switched to state school. I left with 14 GCSE's, all A's and A*s. My old class mates at private school got 8. I also think I'm a more rounded person having been to state school. Every person at my state school was entered for between 8 and 14 GCSE's, at the Grammar School, they only did 8. Much easier to get a 100% pass rate when you have fewer pupils sitting fewer exams. I don't think it is down to having better teacher's, I had a much more inspirational bunch after leaving private school. And when you make everyone sit an entrance exam before joining so that you only take the cleverest pupils, well what can you expect? I think quoting private schools in this article as being above average means squat to most people in Bradford who could never in a million years send their kids there!
14 GCSEs and you don't have a clue how to use an apostrophe. Speaks volumes about the real world validity of today's qualifications. I'm guessing one of your A or A* passes was in English Language?
[quote][p][bold]AB11[/bold] wrote: To give you the other point of view, I went to private school for a few years (Bradford Grammar), then switched to state school. I left with 14 GCSE's, all A's and A*s. My old class mates at private school got 8. I also think I'm a more rounded person having been to state school. Every person at my state school was entered for between 8 and 14 GCSE's, at the Grammar School, they only did 8. Much easier to get a 100% pass rate when you have fewer pupils sitting fewer exams. I don't think it is down to having better teacher's, I had a much more inspirational bunch after leaving private school. And when you make everyone sit an entrance exam before joining so that you only take the cleverest pupils, well what can you expect? I think quoting private schools in this article as being above average means squat to most people in Bradford who could never in a million years send their kids there![/p][/quote]14 GCSEs and you don't have a clue how to use an apostrophe. Speaks volumes about the real world validity of today's qualifications. I'm guessing one of your A or A* passes was in English Language? Makollig Jezvahted

8:55pm Sun 26 Jan 14

Timjamesphillips says...

DaGeneral wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
DaGeneral wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
angry bradfordian wrote:
I read the headline with surprise & delight when all we read about are constant reports on the poor quality of Bradford's education system.

Sadly, it seems that 2 of the 5 are fee paying schools and Heckmondwike school is actually in Kirklees!
You get what you pay for unfortunately

The caliber of teachers and everything else at Bradford Grammar are far far better than in state schools
Agree about the facilities, funding, class sizes and all the cultural capital & positive attitude to learning displayed by all concerned that you inevitably find in Independent, selective, fee paying schools such as BGS and BGGS. I completely refute the idea that the calibre of teaching staff is therefore automatically better. If BGS kids & teachers were dispersed to Bradford's state schools, and its state school teachers were transferred into BGS, I wonder what would happen? It's just not a level playing field under any circumstances and no-one can with any seriousness claim it is.
Knowing a couple of state teachers and one that works in a private school I can assure you the level of education and sheer quality of teaching given in "private" is in a different league.

Yes they get paid more but that's because they are better. As I said you get what you pay for
Indeed you do, no debate there. But should you be able to buy it in the first place? And of course the overall experience & quality of what goes on in schools like BGS is in a different league to inner city state schools, just as Barcelona are a better football team than say, Denholme United. For the same reasons. Regarding the "teacher swap" scenario, I also have many teacher friends in both state & private schools - the state school ones would give their right arm to be able to work with BGS's facilities, class sizes & calibre of kids. The private school ones would last about 30 seconds in front of an average state school inner city class and they know it, thanking their lucky stars every day that they work where they do in the circumstances they do. And let's remember that in the grand scheme of things BGS is nowhere near the most privileged of private schools, it's actually quite mixed and diverse, not up itself and elitist.
You do indeed get what you pay for ... I have worked I leadership in both public and state schools and I can tell you that the caliber of teachers varies not a not... What does vary is class size , resources and ratio of pupil to adult support, which is funded entirely by the fact that state schools get approximately £2500 per pupil per year and private ... At peat £10,000 a year... It does not take a genius to work out the result of this.

I do not profess to tell anyone in life that I know their job better than they do, let alone the entire industry they work for. Armchair pundits on education are ten a penny ... Politicians included . It's just as well we ignore the sweeping generalisations and arrogant assumptions and just get on with the thankless task in hand .... I dare these ignoramuses to try it for a day and make the same cack handed half baked comments.
[quote][p][bold]DaGeneral[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DaGeneral[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]angry bradfordian[/bold] wrote: I read the headline with surprise & delight when all we read about are constant reports on the poor quality of Bradford's education system. Sadly, it seems that 2 of the 5 are fee paying schools and Heckmondwike school is actually in Kirklees![/p][/quote]You get what you pay for unfortunately The caliber of teachers and everything else at Bradford Grammar are far far better than in state schools[/p][/quote]Agree about the facilities, funding, class sizes and all the cultural capital & positive attitude to learning displayed by all concerned that you inevitably find in Independent, selective, fee paying schools such as BGS and BGGS. I completely refute the idea that the calibre of teaching staff is therefore automatically better. If BGS kids & teachers were dispersed to Bradford's state schools, and its state school teachers were transferred into BGS, I wonder what would happen? It's just not a level playing field under any circumstances and no-one can with any seriousness claim it is.[/p][/quote]Knowing a couple of state teachers and one that works in a private school I can assure you the level of education and sheer quality of teaching given in "private" is in a different league. Yes they get paid more but that's because they are better. As I said you get what you pay for[/p][/quote]Indeed you do, no debate there. But should you be able to buy it in the first place? And of course the overall experience & quality of what goes on in schools like BGS is in a different league to inner city state schools, just as Barcelona are a better football team than say, Denholme United. For the same reasons. Regarding the "teacher swap" scenario, I also have many teacher friends in both state & private schools - the state school ones would give their right arm to be able to work with BGS's facilities, class sizes & calibre of kids. The private school ones would last about 30 seconds in front of an average state school inner city class and they know it, thanking their lucky stars every day that they work where they do in the circumstances they do. And let's remember that in the grand scheme of things BGS is nowhere near the most privileged of private schools, it's actually quite mixed and diverse, not up itself and elitist.[/p][/quote]You do indeed get what you pay for ... I have worked I leadership in both public and state schools and I can tell you that the caliber of teachers varies not a not... What does vary is class size , resources and ratio of pupil to adult support, which is funded entirely by the fact that state schools get approximately £2500 per pupil per year and private ... At peat £10,000 a year... It does not take a genius to work out the result of this. I do not profess to tell anyone in life that I know their job better than they do, let alone the entire industry they work for. Armchair pundits on education are ten a penny ... Politicians included . It's just as well we ignore the sweeping generalisations and arrogant assumptions and just get on with the thankless task in hand .... I dare these ignoramuses to try it for a day and make the same cack handed half baked comments. Timjamesphillips

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