Oastler and Kirkgate market traders don't want to move under proposed merger

Bradford Telegraph and Argus: Bradford's city centre markets could be merged in a new plan Bradford's city centre markets could be merged in a new plan

We don’t want to move – that’s the resounding message from the vast majority of traders as the Council forges ahead with the development of a scheme to merge the city’s two markets.

Bradford Council is considering whether to combine the Kirkgate Market and Oastler Shopping Centre into one extra-large market but its location has yet to be decided.

Regeneration bosses believe the city will be unable to sustain two markets in years to come, especially once Westfield’s Broadway shopping centre opens.

The Council has put forward three possible sites:

  • an enlarged Kirkgate Market,
  • an enlarged Oastler Shopping Centre
  • or a new joint market somewhere else entirely, probably close to the Broadway site.

But the results of a consultation questionnaire sent to market tenants reveal for the first time the scale of their opposition to moving their stalls.

Traders have raised concerns about losing business during any move or refurbishment. Some were also worried about whether all current tenants would be guaranteed a place in a new larger market.

Traders were asked which of the three merger options they preferred.

At Kirkgate, a total of 93 per cent of tenants wanted to see any merged market located there and none wanted it at Oastler.

Meanwhile, at Oastler, 61 per cent of traders wanted the new enlarged market there and none wanted it at Kirkgate.

A few preferred the idea of a new site somewhere else.

A new Council report summarising the findings states: “The majority of traders indicated their preference was to remain in the market venue where they currently trade. This is likely to be the case until more detailed proposals are developed for their consideration.”

Kathryn Sutcliffe, director of The Joke Shop Ltd, and member of Kirkgate Market Committee, said a merger of both markets would not help as tenants cannot be guaranteed the same sales point as they now have. She is also against moving to Oastler as it is not as central as Kirkgate Market.

“I think it’s a non-starter,” she said. “They couldn’t build on here. We’d have to move out because it’s not something they could do while we’re in here. I’m at the front now. If they merge, I might be right at the back.”

But David Crompton, proprietor of A.J Pickup & Son Butchers and a member of Oastler Market Committee, spoke in support of a merger.

“We have two markets that have a lot of empty stalls. We’d be better with one market with full tenancy and nearer to the centre,” he said.

Bradford Council’s portfolio holder for markets, Councillor Susan Hinchcliffe, insisted traders would be listened to and that no final decision had been made.

She said: “We are only half-way there. We are not at the decision-making stage yet, we are still in consultation.”

Coun Hinchcliffe said she was not surprised that traders were wary of the proposals when they were at such an early stage.

She said: “I can quite understand why they wouldn’t want any disruption.”

She said in particular, it was difficult for traders to give feedback on the idea of opening a joint market on a brand new site when they didn’t yet know where it could be.

The report, by strategic director of regeneration Barra Mac Ruairi, will go before the Council’s Regeneration and Economy Overview and Scrutiny Committee next week.

It says the authority is now taking the merger idea to the next stage by drawing up a business plan.

Chartered surveyors are being asked to assess all three proposals to help the authority find a preferred option. This should be completed by May or June.

There will be further consultation with market traders and others, but Mr Mac Ruairi admits that the final plan for the future of the city markets is “not likely to find support from all traders”.

Comments (27)

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7:12am Fri 17 Jan 14

Albion. says...

Once Westfield is built they will both die anyway.
Once Westfield is built they will both die anyway. Albion.

7:14am Fri 17 Jan 14

Joedavid says...

So Westfield will cause further decline of the present City Centre is it saying?
So Westfield will cause further decline of the present City Centre is it saying? Joedavid

7:52am Fri 17 Jan 14

angry bradfordian says...

Joedavid wrote:
So Westfield will cause further decline of the present City Centre is it saying?
Looks like it if even the Director of Degeneration was planning on it happening. At least he had a plan I suppose.

It would be really interesting to know if all the "new" jobs that Westfield is going to create is a net increase that includes all the people moving from M&S/River Island etc and all the jobs lost when one of the markets closes down.
How about asking some probing questions T&A?
[quote][p][bold]Joedavid[/bold] wrote: So Westfield will cause further decline of the present City Centre is it saying?[/p][/quote]Looks like it if even the Director of Degeneration was planning on it happening. At least he had a plan I suppose. It would be really interesting to know if all the "new" jobs that Westfield is going to create is a net increase that includes all the people moving from M&S/River Island etc and all the jobs lost when one of the markets closes down. How about asking some probing questions T&A? angry bradfordian

8:09am Fri 17 Jan 14

Whatthejuice says...

If the smallholders want to stay why not let them? Let the fittest survive! At that point, prob after Westfield, merging may become the majority view. What's in it for the council to force a merger or build another market? I would rather take the views of what the business people want than the Councils any day.
If the smallholders want to stay why not let them? Let the fittest survive! At that point, prob after Westfield, merging may become the majority view. What's in it for the council to force a merger or build another market? I would rather take the views of what the business people want than the Councils any day. Whatthejuice

8:10am Fri 17 Jan 14

Whatthejuice says...

Stall holders
Stall holders Whatthejuice

8:23am Fri 17 Jan 14

Avro says...

And no doubt Morrisons then expand into Oastler, which they have been itching to do for years.

What has become of the building that housed the exodus from Rawson Market, which is located at the back of Oastler?
And no doubt Morrisons then expand into Oastler, which they have been itching to do for years. What has become of the building that housed the exodus from Rawson Market, which is located at the back of Oastler? Avro

8:32am Fri 17 Jan 14

Avro says...

Here is the answer..

'Council' ethnic bazaar to be trialed in former Rawson Market

http://www.thetelegr
aphandargus.co.uk/ne
ws/10943956._Council
__ethnic_bazaar_to_b
e_trialed_in_former_
Rawson_Market/
Here is the answer.. 'Council' ethnic bazaar to be trialed in former Rawson Market http://www.thetelegr aphandargus.co.uk/ne ws/10943956._Council __ethnic_bazaar_to_b e_trialed_in_former_ Rawson_Market/ Avro

8:57am Fri 17 Jan 14

Avro says...

Whatthejuice wrote:
If the smallholders want to stay why not let them? Let the fittest survive! At that point, prob after Westfield, merging may become the majority view. What's in it for the council to force a merger or build another market? I would rather take the views of what the business people want than the Councils any day.
What's in it for the Council, is likley selling or letting the land to Morrisons, who have been itching to expand into Oastler for years, and not being able to do so was one of the reasons why this store was up for sale a few years ago but had no takers.
[quote][p][bold]Whatthejuice[/bold] wrote: If the smallholders want to stay why not let them? Let the fittest survive! At that point, prob after Westfield, merging may become the majority view. What's in it for the council to force a merger or build another market? I would rather take the views of what the business people want than the Councils any day.[/p][/quote]What's in it for the Council, is likley selling or letting the land to Morrisons, who have been itching to expand into Oastler for years, and not being able to do so was one of the reasons why this store was up for sale a few years ago but had no takers. Avro

9:29am Fri 17 Jan 14

BaildonGuy says...

I thought Bara had packed his bags and left. The scheme needs reviewing, anything with his fingerprints on it is bound to fail.
I thought Bara had packed his bags and left. The scheme needs reviewing, anything with his fingerprints on it is bound to fail. BaildonGuy

9:54am Fri 17 Jan 14

christinetowell456@btinternet.com says...

hope their going to build it first before they knock it down or we will end up with no market jusr another hole and this one will be on dave greens watch
hope their going to build it first before they knock it down or we will end up with no market jusr another hole and this one will be on dave greens watch christinetowell456@btinternet.com

10:02am Fri 17 Jan 14

Whatthejuice says...

Avro wrote:
Whatthejuice wrote:
If the smallholders want to stay why not let them? Let the fittest survive! At that point, prob after Westfield, merging may become the majority view. What's in it for the council to force a merger or build another market? I would rather take the views of what the business people want than the Councils any day.
What's in it for the Council, is likley selling or letting the land to Morrisons, who have been itching to expand into Oastler for years, and not being able to do so was one of the reasons why this store was up for sale a few years ago but had no takers.
Exactly right, so why no be honest, sell Oastler to Morrisons with a clause forcing them to accommodate the fresh food businesses in a market street style area, give the current Traders 12-18 months notice to move into Kirkgate market, once WH smiths and others leave for Westfield there will be plenty of room and the offer may even be more attractive then 'identikit' Westfield
[quote][p][bold]Avro[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Whatthejuice[/bold] wrote: If the smallholders want to stay why not let them? Let the fittest survive! At that point, prob after Westfield, merging may become the majority view. What's in it for the council to force a merger or build another market? I would rather take the views of what the business people want than the Councils any day.[/p][/quote]What's in it for the Council, is likley selling or letting the land to Morrisons, who have been itching to expand into Oastler for years, and not being able to do so was one of the reasons why this store was up for sale a few years ago but had no takers.[/p][/quote]Exactly right, so why no be honest, sell Oastler to Morrisons with a clause forcing them to accommodate the fresh food businesses in a market street style area, give the current Traders 12-18 months notice to move into Kirkgate market, once WH smiths and others leave for Westfield there will be plenty of room and the offer may even be more attractive then 'identikit' Westfield Whatthejuice

10:42am Fri 17 Jan 14

Avro says...

Or turn the Arndale into a Bazaar
Or turn the Arndale into a Bazaar Avro

1:03pm Fri 17 Jan 14

OMG_LOL says...

The present market is old, looks and smells unclean and has 1970's style stalls from a bygone era. many of the cafe's do not look like they would pass a cleanliness check. The stall holders are thinking of themselves not Bradford, no point asking them if they want to close and lose business, when they are happy with their current conditions. This is where a council makes a DECISION
The present market is old, looks and smells unclean and has 1970's style stalls from a bygone era. many of the cafe's do not look like they would pass a cleanliness check. The stall holders are thinking of themselves not Bradford, no point asking them if they want to close and lose business, when they are happy with their current conditions. This is where a council makes a DECISION OMG_LOL

1:25pm Fri 17 Jan 14

Joedavid says...

OMG_LOL wrote:
The present market is old, looks and smells unclean and has 1970's style stalls from a bygone era. many of the cafe's do not look like they would pass a cleanliness check. The stall holders are thinking of themselves not Bradford, no point asking them if they want to close and lose business, when they are happy with their current conditions. This is where a council makes a DECISION
People handling meat in supermarkets wear hats in the market they do not so I agree standard do not look that good.
[quote][p][bold]OMG_LOL[/bold] wrote: The present market is old, looks and smells unclean and has 1970's style stalls from a bygone era. many of the cafe's do not look like they would pass a cleanliness check. The stall holders are thinking of themselves not Bradford, no point asking them if they want to close and lose business, when they are happy with their current conditions. This is where a council makes a DECISION[/p][/quote]People handling meat in supermarkets wear hats in the market they do not so I agree standard do not look that good. Joedavid

1:47pm Fri 17 Jan 14

Albion. says...

Joedavid wrote:
OMG_LOL wrote:
The present market is old, looks and smells unclean and has 1970's style stalls from a bygone era. many of the cafe's do not look like they would pass a cleanliness check. The stall holders are thinking of themselves not Bradford, no point asking them if they want to close and lose business, when they are happy with their current conditions. This is where a council makes a DECISION
People handling meat in supermarkets wear hats in the market they do not so I agree standard do not look that good.
I'd be more interested in whether they had washed their hands than whether they had a hat on.
[quote][p][bold]Joedavid[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]OMG_LOL[/bold] wrote: The present market is old, looks and smells unclean and has 1970's style stalls from a bygone era. many of the cafe's do not look like they would pass a cleanliness check. The stall holders are thinking of themselves not Bradford, no point asking them if they want to close and lose business, when they are happy with their current conditions. This is where a council makes a DECISION[/p][/quote]People handling meat in supermarkets wear hats in the market they do not so I agree standard do not look that good.[/p][/quote]I'd be more interested in whether they had washed their hands than whether they had a hat on. Albion.

1:47pm Fri 17 Jan 14

Albion. says...

Joedavid wrote:
OMG_LOL wrote:
The present market is old, looks and smells unclean and has 1970's style stalls from a bygone era. many of the cafe's do not look like they would pass a cleanliness check. The stall holders are thinking of themselves not Bradford, no point asking them if they want to close and lose business, when they are happy with their current conditions. This is where a council makes a DECISION
People handling meat in supermarkets wear hats in the market they do not so I agree standard do not look that good.
I'd be more interested in whether they had washed their hands than whether they had a hat on.
[quote][p][bold]Joedavid[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]OMG_LOL[/bold] wrote: The present market is old, looks and smells unclean and has 1970's style stalls from a bygone era. many of the cafe's do not look like they would pass a cleanliness check. The stall holders are thinking of themselves not Bradford, no point asking them if they want to close and lose business, when they are happy with their current conditions. This is where a council makes a DECISION[/p][/quote]People handling meat in supermarkets wear hats in the market they do not so I agree standard do not look that good.[/p][/quote]I'd be more interested in whether they had washed their hands than whether they had a hat on. Albion.

1:56pm Fri 17 Jan 14

Sleepysamkhan says...

I think the markets are very old and dated now. When Westfield opens I don't think people will travel up to the top of town unless there is something just as nice to go to. Expand morrisons and create a new or much updated market with nice clean looking cafés, food court areas. Then maybe not only Bradfordians will shop here but also people will come from out of town too.
I think the markets are very old and dated now. When Westfield opens I don't think people will travel up to the top of town unless there is something just as nice to go to. Expand morrisons and create a new or much updated market with nice clean looking cafés, food court areas. Then maybe not only Bradfordians will shop here but also people will come from out of town too. Sleepysamkhan

1:56pm Fri 17 Jan 14

Joedavid says...

Albion. wrote:
Joedavid wrote:
OMG_LOL wrote: The present market is old, looks and smells unclean and has 1970's style stalls from a bygone era. many of the cafe's do not look like they would pass a cleanliness check. The stall holders are thinking of themselves not Bradford, no point asking them if they want to close and lose business, when they are happy with their current conditions. This is where a council makes a DECISION
People handling meat in supermarkets wear hats in the market they do not so I agree standard do not look that good.
I'd be more interested in whether they had washed their hands than whether they had a hat on.
Well you can SEE they not wearing a hat so that puts doubt on other things too.
[quote][p][bold]Albion.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Joedavid[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]OMG_LOL[/bold] wrote: The present market is old, looks and smells unclean and has 1970's style stalls from a bygone era. many of the cafe's do not look like they would pass a cleanliness check. The stall holders are thinking of themselves not Bradford, no point asking them if they want to close and lose business, when they are happy with their current conditions. This is where a council makes a DECISION[/p][/quote]People handling meat in supermarkets wear hats in the market they do not so I agree standard do not look that good.[/p][/quote]I'd be more interested in whether they had washed their hands than whether they had a hat on.[/p][/quote]Well you can SEE they not wearing a hat so that puts doubt on other things too. Joedavid

2:23pm Fri 17 Jan 14

Ahrmen Aleg says...

Further policy in complete disarray.
The market built at the cost of £12 million that has stood empty in 10 years was never used by the public......too far out.
Oaster had a multi million pound refit just 12 years ago but you would not know it.

Both markets are failing with many many empty stalls as rents are about ten thousand for a postage stamp.
Bazaars have taken demand away.Bazaar rents are nothing like that.
The Rawson Quarter has never worked.

I would see If Morrisons could be invited to offer significant compensation to all tenants in oastler.many may welcome opportunity to pack up and finish or relocate to kirkgate.
Of course Morrisons want to expand.
At the moment there is little shoppers in Bradford.It does have its moments but it is difficult to see this trend reversing as its citizens are largely poor or on their uppers paying gas electric and eating.

So go waste more money Susan Hinchcliffe.
On ridiculous consultants fees
To tell us what we know anyway.
1.THERE IS NO MONEY LEFT
2PEOPLE HATE GOING INTO TOWN WITH THIRD WORLD TYPES MUGGING EVERYWHERE
3.LEEDS MARKET IS STRUGGLING SO WHAT HOPE HERE

GO ON WASTE MORE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS WHILST THE POOR STARVE
Further policy in complete disarray. The market built at the cost of £12 million that has stood empty in 10 years was never used by the public......too far out. Oaster had a multi million pound refit just 12 years ago but you would not know it. Both markets are failing with many many empty stalls as rents are about ten thousand for a postage stamp. Bazaars have taken demand away.Bazaar rents are nothing like that. The Rawson Quarter has never worked. I would see If Morrisons could be invited to offer significant compensation to all tenants in oastler.many may welcome opportunity to pack up and finish or relocate to kirkgate. Of course Morrisons want to expand. At the moment there is little shoppers in Bradford.It does have its moments but it is difficult to see this trend reversing as its citizens are largely poor or on their uppers paying gas electric and eating. So go waste more money Susan Hinchcliffe. On ridiculous consultants fees To tell us what we know anyway. 1.THERE IS NO MONEY LEFT 2PEOPLE HATE GOING INTO TOWN WITH THIRD WORLD TYPES MUGGING EVERYWHERE 3.LEEDS MARKET IS STRUGGLING SO WHAT HOPE HERE GO ON WASTE MORE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS WHILST THE POOR STARVE Ahrmen Aleg

2:40pm Fri 17 Jan 14

Joedavid says...

Ahrmen Aleg wrote:
Further policy in complete disarray. The market built at the cost of £12 million that has stood empty in 10 years was never used by the public......too far out. Oaster had a multi million pound refit just 12 years ago but you would not know it. Both markets are failing with many many empty stalls as rents are about ten thousand for a postage stamp. Bazaars have taken demand away.Bazaar rents are nothing like that. The Rawson Quarter has never worked. I would see If Morrisons could be invited to offer significant compensation to all tenants in oastler.many may welcome opportunity to pack up and finish or relocate to kirkgate. Of course Morrisons want to expand. At the moment there is little shoppers in Bradford.It does have its moments but it is difficult to see this trend reversing as its citizens are largely poor or on their uppers paying gas electric and eating. So go waste more money Susan Hinchcliffe. On ridiculous consultants fees To tell us what we know anyway. 1.THERE IS NO MONEY LEFT 2PEOPLE HATE GOING INTO TOWN WITH THIRD WORLD TYPES MUGGING EVERYWHERE 3.LEEDS MARKET IS STRUGGLING SO WHAT HOPE HERE GO ON WASTE MORE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS WHILST THE POOR STARVE
You mention Morrisons and several others did, I thought Morrisons wanted out but could not sell it. About the time Tesco opened a small High Street type shop in the City Centre the for sale or let signs came down. To me I think Morrisons would want to compete with Tesco in a High Street type store not a large supermarket, maybe Morrisons will close like others and move into Westfield.
As regards Leeds market last week I noticed lots of closed stalls in the indoor part and 99% of the open air stalls were all selling Asian clothes and goods.
[quote][p][bold]Ahrmen Aleg[/bold] wrote: Further policy in complete disarray. The market built at the cost of £12 million that has stood empty in 10 years was never used by the public......too far out. Oaster had a multi million pound refit just 12 years ago but you would not know it. Both markets are failing with many many empty stalls as rents are about ten thousand for a postage stamp. Bazaars have taken demand away.Bazaar rents are nothing like that. The Rawson Quarter has never worked. I would see If Morrisons could be invited to offer significant compensation to all tenants in oastler.many may welcome opportunity to pack up and finish or relocate to kirkgate. Of course Morrisons want to expand. At the moment there is little shoppers in Bradford.It does have its moments but it is difficult to see this trend reversing as its citizens are largely poor or on their uppers paying gas electric and eating. So go waste more money Susan Hinchcliffe. On ridiculous consultants fees To tell us what we know anyway. 1.THERE IS NO MONEY LEFT 2PEOPLE HATE GOING INTO TOWN WITH THIRD WORLD TYPES MUGGING EVERYWHERE 3.LEEDS MARKET IS STRUGGLING SO WHAT HOPE HERE GO ON WASTE MORE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS WHILST THE POOR STARVE[/p][/quote]You mention Morrisons and several others did, I thought Morrisons wanted out but could not sell it. About the time Tesco opened a small High Street type shop in the City Centre the for sale or let signs came down. To me I think Morrisons would want to compete with Tesco in a High Street type store not a large supermarket, maybe Morrisons will close like others and move into Westfield. As regards Leeds market last week I noticed lots of closed stalls in the indoor part and 99% of the open air stalls were all selling Asian clothes and goods. Joedavid

2:54pm Fri 17 Jan 14

Avro says...

Morr's have missed a trick to open a 'local' within Westfield, just like Sainsbury's ARE doing
Morr's have missed a trick to open a 'local' within Westfield, just like Sainsbury's ARE doing Avro

3:09pm Fri 17 Jan 14

basil fawlty says...

The Council should not rush into changing the markets because the city centre is at an artificially low point and the effects of the Broadway Shopping Centre and other regeneration projects need to actually be seen before the Council starts meddling around with the markets.
In any case I do not think that Broadway centre will have a massive negative impact on the markets as the markets tend to cater for the cheaper end whereas Broadway will mainly cater for the higher end.
The Council should instead be making conserted efforts to make the the city centre a more pleasant place to shop:
1. By providing a lot more parking by removing pointless yellow lines.
2. By encouraging speciality/independe
nt shops to locate in specifically earmarked areas/streets so that they compliment the new shopping centre and markets.
The Council should also do all it can to revive the city centre nightlife as the pubs and restaurants should compliment and have a positive impact on the footfall to the shops and markets.
The Council have made a lot of bad decisions in the past such as engineering the destruction of Rawson Market rather than modernising it. They cannot afford to keep making these major mistakes.
The Council should not rush into changing the markets because the city centre is at an artificially low point and the effects of the Broadway Shopping Centre and other regeneration projects need to actually be seen before the Council starts meddling around with the markets. In any case I do not think that Broadway centre will have a massive negative impact on the markets as the markets tend to cater for the cheaper end whereas Broadway will mainly cater for the higher end. The Council should instead be making conserted efforts to make the the city centre a more pleasant place to shop: 1. By providing a lot more parking by removing pointless yellow lines. 2. By encouraging speciality/independe nt shops to locate in specifically earmarked areas/streets so that they compliment the new shopping centre and markets. The Council should also do all it can to revive the city centre nightlife as the pubs and restaurants should compliment and have a positive impact on the footfall to the shops and markets. The Council have made a lot of bad decisions in the past such as engineering the destruction of Rawson Market rather than modernising it. They cannot afford to keep making these major mistakes. basil fawlty

10:24pm Fri 17 Jan 14

Ahrmen Aleg says...

Joedavid wrote:
Ahrmen Aleg wrote:
Further policy in complete disarray. The market built at the cost of £12 million that has stood empty in 10 years was never used by the public......too far out. Oaster had a multi million pound refit just 12 years ago but you would not know it. Both markets are failing with many many empty stalls as rents are about ten thousand for a postage stamp. Bazaars have taken demand away.Bazaar rents are nothing like that. The Rawson Quarter has never worked. I would see If Morrisons could be invited to offer significant compensation to all tenants in oastler.many may welcome opportunity to pack up and finish or relocate to kirkgate. Of course Morrisons want to expand. At the moment there is little shoppers in Bradford.It does have its moments but it is difficult to see this trend reversing as its citizens are largely poor or on their uppers paying gas electric and eating. So go waste more money Susan Hinchcliffe. On ridiculous consultants fees To tell us what we know anyway. 1.THERE IS NO MONEY LEFT 2PEOPLE HATE GOING INTO TOWN WITH THIRD WORLD TYPES MUGGING EVERYWHERE 3.LEEDS MARKET IS STRUGGLING SO WHAT HOPE HERE GO ON WASTE MORE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS WHILST THE POOR STARVE
You mention Morrisons and several others did, I thought Morrisons wanted out but could not sell it. About the time Tesco opened a small High Street type shop in the City Centre the for sale or let signs came down. To me I think Morrisons would want to compete with Tesco in a High Street type store not a large supermarket, maybe Morrisons will close like others and move into Westfield.
As regards Leeds market last week I noticed lots of closed stalls in the indoor part and 99% of the open air stalls were all selling Asian clothes and goods.
Morrisons wanted to expand into Oastler 4ish years back.Storetoo small for their modern approach.Council said no.
So they put it up for sale.No takers.
Yes markets seem to struggle a bit these days.
Maybe a large Morrisons in Oastler will be a good idea.
With the remaining market traders all in Arndale.
And all the remaining retailer in Arndale relocating to Westfield.
And the new bazaar on top in a building that cost £12 million but nobody visited so all the butchers and fish mongers relocated to Oastler.

Sounds simple.
But nothing of this nature ever is.

Whilst ever there is a heroin dispensary chemist next to Oastler complete with steel bins on the pavement for them to deposit their needles I shall not be going.
A large supermarket in town would be good.
There are thousands living now in former offices and mill warehouses right in the heart of the city.
But no offices left.
I would estimate there are 15000 less people working in the city from 30 years ago.Does anyone ever notice a suit?
The whole character has changed.
Much for the worse.
[quote][p][bold]Joedavid[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ahrmen Aleg[/bold] wrote: Further policy in complete disarray. The market built at the cost of £12 million that has stood empty in 10 years was never used by the public......too far out. Oaster had a multi million pound refit just 12 years ago but you would not know it. Both markets are failing with many many empty stalls as rents are about ten thousand for a postage stamp. Bazaars have taken demand away.Bazaar rents are nothing like that. The Rawson Quarter has never worked. I would see If Morrisons could be invited to offer significant compensation to all tenants in oastler.many may welcome opportunity to pack up and finish or relocate to kirkgate. Of course Morrisons want to expand. At the moment there is little shoppers in Bradford.It does have its moments but it is difficult to see this trend reversing as its citizens are largely poor or on their uppers paying gas electric and eating. So go waste more money Susan Hinchcliffe. On ridiculous consultants fees To tell us what we know anyway. 1.THERE IS NO MONEY LEFT 2PEOPLE HATE GOING INTO TOWN WITH THIRD WORLD TYPES MUGGING EVERYWHERE 3.LEEDS MARKET IS STRUGGLING SO WHAT HOPE HERE GO ON WASTE MORE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS WHILST THE POOR STARVE[/p][/quote]You mention Morrisons and several others did, I thought Morrisons wanted out but could not sell it. About the time Tesco opened a small High Street type shop in the City Centre the for sale or let signs came down. To me I think Morrisons would want to compete with Tesco in a High Street type store not a large supermarket, maybe Morrisons will close like others and move into Westfield. As regards Leeds market last week I noticed lots of closed stalls in the indoor part and 99% of the open air stalls were all selling Asian clothes and goods.[/p][/quote]Morrisons wanted to expand into Oastler 4ish years back.Storetoo small for their modern approach.Council said no. So they put it up for sale.No takers. Yes markets seem to struggle a bit these days. Maybe a large Morrisons in Oastler will be a good idea. With the remaining market traders all in Arndale. And all the remaining retailer in Arndale relocating to Westfield. And the new bazaar on top in a building that cost £12 million but nobody visited so all the butchers and fish mongers relocated to Oastler. Sounds simple. But nothing of this nature ever is. Whilst ever there is a heroin dispensary chemist next to Oastler complete with steel bins on the pavement for them to deposit their needles I shall not be going. A large supermarket in town would be good. There are thousands living now in former offices and mill warehouses right in the heart of the city. But no offices left. I would estimate there are 15000 less people working in the city from 30 years ago.Does anyone ever notice a suit? The whole character has changed. Much for the worse. Ahrmen Aleg

10:36pm Fri 17 Jan 14

Ahrmen Aleg says...

basil fawlty wrote:
The Council should not rush into changing the markets because the city centre is at an artificially low point and the effects of the Broadway Shopping Centre and other regeneration projects need to actually be seen before the Council starts meddling around with the markets.
In any case I do not think that Broadway centre will have a massive negative impact on the markets as the markets tend to cater for the cheaper end whereas Broadway will mainly cater for the higher end.
The Council should instead be making conserted efforts to make the the city centre a more pleasant place to shop:
1. By providing a lot more parking by removing pointless yellow lines.
2. By encouraging speciality/independe

nt shops to locate in specifically earmarked areas/streets so that they compliment the new shopping centre and markets.
The Council should also do all it can to revive the city centre nightlife as the pubs and restaurants should compliment and have a positive impact on the footfall to the shops and markets.
The Council have made a lot of bad decisions in the past such as engineering the destruction of Rawson Market rather than modernising it. They cannot afford to keep making these major mistakes.
Is there a "higher end" left Basil.

All I ever see is low life.I don't include you if you drank in the **** Bottle when Pete Fell (RIP) had it.
He had it looking good for a while.
But was infiltrated by low life heroin users and scum.

The Topic folk cub were there but found the same.
Now they will have o find somewhere else as the Irish club is closing.

Dreadfull times for the city centre and all of us who remember it thriving just 20 odd years agio.
From Ely Mc Flys to Cloud Nine.

Bradford was the place to be.They came from London to drink in those days.
Where did it all go wrong?.
[quote][p][bold]basil fawlty[/bold] wrote: The Council should not rush into changing the markets because the city centre is at an artificially low point and the effects of the Broadway Shopping Centre and other regeneration projects need to actually be seen before the Council starts meddling around with the markets. In any case I do not think that Broadway centre will have a massive negative impact on the markets as the markets tend to cater for the cheaper end whereas Broadway will mainly cater for the higher end. The Council should instead be making conserted efforts to make the the city centre a more pleasant place to shop: 1. By providing a lot more parking by removing pointless yellow lines. 2. By encouraging speciality/independe nt shops to locate in specifically earmarked areas/streets so that they compliment the new shopping centre and markets. The Council should also do all it can to revive the city centre nightlife as the pubs and restaurants should compliment and have a positive impact on the footfall to the shops and markets. The Council have made a lot of bad decisions in the past such as engineering the destruction of Rawson Market rather than modernising it. They cannot afford to keep making these major mistakes.[/p][/quote]Is there a "higher end" left Basil. All I ever see is low life.I don't include you if you drank in the **** Bottle when Pete Fell (RIP) had it. He had it looking good for a while. But was infiltrated by low life heroin users and scum. The Topic folk cub were there but found the same. Now they will have o find somewhere else as the Irish club is closing. Dreadfull times for the city centre and all of us who remember it thriving just 20 odd years agio. From Ely Mc Flys to Cloud Nine. Bradford was the place to be.They came from London to drink in those days. Where did it all go wrong?. Ahrmen Aleg

12:02am Sat 18 Jan 14

bradfordbronco says...

There's just too many hills and its too much of a hike between Broadway, Foster Sq and Oastler centre. We need to get all the shops and markets in one area. Attract people in by the greater variety on offer then start opening up more shops working back up the hill. At the moment its too disjointed for the number of shoppers available. The area between Foster Sq, Broadway and Odeon is big enough and nice and flat.

Sell the Oastler centre to Morrisons( if they want it) and with the cash build a brand new market where the Odean is. We could then develop the Thornton road area, also nice and flat.
There's just too many hills and its too much of a hike between Broadway, Foster Sq and Oastler centre. We need to get all the shops and markets in one area. Attract people in by the greater variety on offer then start opening up more shops working back up the hill. At the moment its too disjointed for the number of shoppers available. The area between Foster Sq, Broadway and Odeon is big enough and nice and flat. Sell the Oastler centre to Morrisons( if they want it) and with the cash build a brand new market where the Odean is. We could then develop the Thornton road area, also nice and flat. bradfordbronco

8:48am Sat 18 Jan 14

Avro says...

Its unlikely that Morrisons wil now exoand that location because their attention is focused on opening 'M locals' and new superstore developments are on hold.
Its unlikely that Morrisons wil now exoand that location because their attention is focused on opening 'M locals' and new superstore developments are on hold. Avro

8:51am Sat 18 Jan 14

Avro says...

Ahrmen Aleg wrote:
Joedavid wrote:
Ahrmen Aleg wrote:
Further policy in complete disarray. The market built at the cost of £12 million that has stood empty in 10 years was never used by the public......too far out. Oaster had a multi million pound refit just 12 years ago but you would not know it. Both markets are failing with many many empty stalls as rents are about ten thousand for a postage stamp. Bazaars have taken demand away.Bazaar rents are nothing like that. The Rawson Quarter has never worked. I would see If Morrisons could be invited to offer significant compensation to all tenants in oastler.many may welcome opportunity to pack up and finish or relocate to kirkgate. Of course Morrisons want to expand. At the moment there is little shoppers in Bradford.It does have its moments but it is difficult to see this trend reversing as its citizens are largely poor or on their uppers paying gas electric and eating. So go waste more money Susan Hinchcliffe. On ridiculous consultants fees To tell us what we know anyway. 1.THERE IS NO MONEY LEFT 2PEOPLE HATE GOING INTO TOWN WITH THIRD WORLD TYPES MUGGING EVERYWHERE 3.LEEDS MARKET IS STRUGGLING SO WHAT HOPE HERE GO ON WASTE MORE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS WHILST THE POOR STARVE
You mention Morrisons and several others did, I thought Morrisons wanted out but could not sell it. About the time Tesco opened a small High Street type shop in the City Centre the for sale or let signs came down. To me I think Morrisons would want to compete with Tesco in a High Street type store not a large supermarket, maybe Morrisons will close like others and move into Westfield.
As regards Leeds market last week I noticed lots of closed stalls in the indoor part and 99% of the open air stalls were all selling Asian clothes and goods.
Morrisons wanted to expand into Oastler 4ish years back.Storetoo small for their modern approach.Council said no.
So they put it up for sale.No takers.
Yes markets seem to struggle a bit these days.
Maybe a large Morrisons in Oastler will be a good idea.
With the remaining market traders all in Arndale.
And all the remaining retailer in Arndale relocating to Westfield.
And the new bazaar on top in a building that cost £12 million but nobody visited so all the butchers and fish mongers relocated to Oastler.

Sounds simple.
But nothing of this nature ever is.

Whilst ever there is a heroin dispensary chemist next to Oastler complete with steel bins on the pavement for them to deposit their needles I shall not be going.
A large supermarket in town would be good.
There are thousands living now in former offices and mill warehouses right in the heart of the city.
But no offices left.
I would estimate there are 15000 less people working in the city from 30 years ago.Does anyone ever notice a suit?
The whole character has changed.
Much for the worse.
I agree, just about all of the legal offices along Picadillly have gone which is a sure sign of a failing city.
[quote][p][bold]Ahrmen Aleg[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Joedavid[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ahrmen Aleg[/bold] wrote: Further policy in complete disarray. The market built at the cost of £12 million that has stood empty in 10 years was never used by the public......too far out. Oaster had a multi million pound refit just 12 years ago but you would not know it. Both markets are failing with many many empty stalls as rents are about ten thousand for a postage stamp. Bazaars have taken demand away.Bazaar rents are nothing like that. The Rawson Quarter has never worked. I would see If Morrisons could be invited to offer significant compensation to all tenants in oastler.many may welcome opportunity to pack up and finish or relocate to kirkgate. Of course Morrisons want to expand. At the moment there is little shoppers in Bradford.It does have its moments but it is difficult to see this trend reversing as its citizens are largely poor or on their uppers paying gas electric and eating. So go waste more money Susan Hinchcliffe. On ridiculous consultants fees To tell us what we know anyway. 1.THERE IS NO MONEY LEFT 2PEOPLE HATE GOING INTO TOWN WITH THIRD WORLD TYPES MUGGING EVERYWHERE 3.LEEDS MARKET IS STRUGGLING SO WHAT HOPE HERE GO ON WASTE MORE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS WHILST THE POOR STARVE[/p][/quote]You mention Morrisons and several others did, I thought Morrisons wanted out but could not sell it. About the time Tesco opened a small High Street type shop in the City Centre the for sale or let signs came down. To me I think Morrisons would want to compete with Tesco in a High Street type store not a large supermarket, maybe Morrisons will close like others and move into Westfield. As regards Leeds market last week I noticed lots of closed stalls in the indoor part and 99% of the open air stalls were all selling Asian clothes and goods.[/p][/quote]Morrisons wanted to expand into Oastler 4ish years back.Storetoo small for their modern approach.Council said no. So they put it up for sale.No takers. Yes markets seem to struggle a bit these days. Maybe a large Morrisons in Oastler will be a good idea. With the remaining market traders all in Arndale. And all the remaining retailer in Arndale relocating to Westfield. And the new bazaar on top in a building that cost £12 million but nobody visited so all the butchers and fish mongers relocated to Oastler. Sounds simple. But nothing of this nature ever is. Whilst ever there is a heroin dispensary chemist next to Oastler complete with steel bins on the pavement for them to deposit their needles I shall not be going. A large supermarket in town would be good. There are thousands living now in former offices and mill warehouses right in the heart of the city. But no offices left. I would estimate there are 15000 less people working in the city from 30 years ago.Does anyone ever notice a suit? The whole character has changed. Much for the worse.[/p][/quote]I agree, just about all of the legal offices along Picadillly have gone which is a sure sign of a failing city. Avro

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