Council sacks all of failing school's governors

Bradford Telegraph and Argus: Parents protesting outside Bradford Moor Primary School in February about standards at the school Parents protesting outside Bradford Moor Primary School in February about standards at the school

Steps are being made to remove the entire governing body at a failing Bradford school following a damning report by the education watchdog.

The rare move is being carried out by Bradford Council chiefs to ensure improvements are made at Bradford Moor Community Primary.

As the Telegraph & Argus reported last Friday, inspectors condemned governors for a longstanding failure to ensure the school was being properly run as they put it into special measures.

But in marked contrast, they praised head teacher Janet Relton for her strong leadership and determination to drive up standards since her appointment last September.

The Council has now started the process of removing the governing body and setting up a temporary board to act as governors while a longer-term solution is found.

The Interim Executive Board will be tasked with bringing about rapid improvement at the school by providing extra support and challenge.

Board members will be hand-picked and the school has hosted meetings with parents to let them know what is happening.

A Council spokesman said the governing body had also been told of the plan, and had agreed it was in the best interests of pupils.

Councillor Ralph Berry, executive member for children’s services, said installing the board was “an essential part of moving forward”.

He said: “The local authority will be looking to secure a team of people with the appropriate skills and leadership to drive up standards and work with the parents and staff at the school.”

But he declined to say whether any of the old governors would have a place on the new board.

He said: “There is no rule that prevents that but I’m not saying that any of them will be on the new one. We will reveal these names in due course.”

The news that the governing body was being replaced was welcomed by the Bradford Moor Parents’ Group, which led a protest about standards at the school earlier this year.

But group spokesman Shaista Kauser said parents had been told the process could take two or three weeks, and called for it to be hurried up.

Coun Berry said the creation of the board needed to be ratified by the Department for Education, but he agreed it needed to happen “as smoothly and quickly as possible”.

The school has 98 per cent of pupils who do not speak English as their first language.

The inspectors’ findings included:

  • The governing body has failed to check the work of the school or hold the leadership to account, for many years and that had contributed to its decline.
  • Standards in mathematics and English are low.
  • Pupils in each key stage make inadequate progress. Those who are disabled and those with special educational needs make the least progress.
  • Pupils make inadequate progress because the quality of teaching is not good enough and this has been the case for some time.
  • Lessons fail to inspire pupils; they are not actively involved enough in their learning and so become uninterested and display poor working habits.
  • The school has not dealt successfully with the areas for improvement identified in the previous inspection report.

Comments (93)

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7:21am Thu 25 Apr 13

Albion. says...

"Pupils make inadequate progress because the quality of teaching is not good enough and this has been the case for some time." (from the report)

So will changing the governors alter that?
"Pupils make inadequate progress because the quality of teaching is not good enough and this has been the case for some time." (from the report) So will changing the governors alter that? Albion.
  • Score: 0

7:26am Thu 25 Apr 13

Thee Voice of Reason says...

Albion. wrote:
"Pupils make inadequate progress because the quality of teaching is not good enough and this has been the case for some time." (from the report)

So will changing the governors alter that?
No it's just moving the deckchairs on the titanic.
[quote][p][bold]Albion.[/bold] wrote: "Pupils make inadequate progress because the quality of teaching is not good enough and this has been the case for some time." (from the report) So will changing the governors alter that?[/p][/quote]No it's just moving the deckchairs on the titanic. Thee Voice of Reason
  • Score: 0

7:26am Thu 25 Apr 13

Apollo says...

How do you sack what are essentially volunteers?

What message does it give to others in the city who give up their own time to be thankless governors of other schools?

The Council seems to have forgotton that school governors do a difficult job but they do it unpaid, in their own time, at their own expense and now you want to sack them.

It's wrong.
How do you sack what are essentially volunteers? What message does it give to others in the city who give up their own time to be thankless governors of other schools? The Council seems to have forgotton that school governors do a difficult job but they do it unpaid, in their own time, at their own expense and now you want to sack them. It's wrong. Apollo
  • Score: 0

7:35am Thu 25 Apr 13

Thee Voice of Reason says...

Is councillor Berry in no way responsible for any of this? Is he going to lose his job?
Is councillor Berry in no way responsible for any of this? Is he going to lose his job? Thee Voice of Reason
  • Score: 0

7:38am Thu 25 Apr 13

Joedavid says...

Really strange this as the others have said.
Does not make sense to me.
*
The Inspection said "•Pupils make inadequate progress because the quality of teaching is not good enough and this has been the case for some time."
Really strange this as the others have said. Does not make sense to me. * The Inspection said "•Pupils make inadequate progress because the quality of teaching is not good enough and this has been the case for some time." Joedavid
  • Score: 0

7:59am Thu 25 Apr 13

Old Dave says...

As a school governor myself, I understand that my role is to be a critical friend to the management of the school. If a schools standards are falling rapidly, or show no sign of improvement, then it is clear in the DFEs and Ofsted framework, that even though governors are volunteers, they are responsible. What is the point of having them if they are not accountable? It is my responsibility to know how much teaching and progress in the school is outstanding/good/ requiring improvement / inadequate, and
if it is not where we expect it to be, then to support the head in taking action.
On Cllr Berry. He is responsible for education across the city, and much of this is delegated to governors. BY sacking them and replacing them he is taking one line of action available to him! to give another situation as an example:If one store manager for Morrisons was failing to hit sales targets, would you expect the company chairman to sack himself, or replace the management at the one failing store?
My feeling is that Cllr Berry waited for an independent and impartial view on the school (from Ofsted) before he took severe action. so that he had sound evidence, and could not be accused of taking sides.
As a school governor myself, I understand that my role is to be a critical friend to the management of the school. If a schools standards are falling rapidly, or show no sign of improvement, then it is clear in the DFEs and Ofsted framework, that even though governors are volunteers, they are responsible. What is the point of having them if they are not accountable? It is my responsibility to know how much teaching and progress in the school is outstanding/good/ requiring improvement / inadequate, and if it is not where we expect it to be, then to support the head in taking action. On Cllr Berry. He is responsible for education across the city, and much of this is delegated to governors. BY sacking them and replacing them he is taking one line of action available to him! to give another situation as an example:If one store manager for Morrisons was failing to hit sales targets, would you expect the company chairman to sack himself, or replace the management at the one failing store? My feeling is that Cllr Berry waited for an independent and impartial view on the school (from Ofsted) before he took severe action. so that he had sound evidence, and could not be accused of taking sides. Old Dave
  • Score: 0

8:02am Thu 25 Apr 13

thatsnotmyname says...

This is a saving face move. Sure the governors have ultimate responsibility, but the head teacher can lie their **** off (for a period of time) that the school is doing well.

98% of pupils have English as a second language...but I bet the asian teaching percentage isn't
This is a saving face move. Sure the governors have ultimate responsibility, but the head teacher can lie their **** off (for a period of time) that the school is doing well. 98% of pupils have English as a second language...but I bet the asian teaching percentage isn't thatsnotmyname
  • Score: 0

8:24am Thu 25 Apr 13

Mo Bradford says...

If I was a parent at this school or part of the Parents Group then I would view this result with some concerns;
Firstly this is not a solely a problem created by the governors and one which they do not have overall control without the Headteacher.
Secondly - Teachers, the lack of progress (failing) reflects badly on the teachers and this needs to be looked into further and monitored on a regular basis.
Also cllr R.Berry - He is paid a heavy wack for what he is failing on as this seemed to be a very slow and little response on his behalf.
***Parents Group*** You are doing a fantastic job by bringing your kids in school on time and making sure their homework is done, now I would meet with the governing bodies, headteacher and also the Parents Group regulalrly and demand for written proof of progress of your children as every child matters. This is their future and you do not want these big guns at the top to let them down.
If I was a parent at this school or part of the Parents Group then I would view this result with some concerns; Firstly this is not a solely a problem created by the governors and one which they do not have overall control without the Headteacher. Secondly - Teachers, the lack of progress (failing) reflects badly on the teachers and this needs to be looked into further and monitored on a regular basis. Also cllr R.Berry - He is paid a heavy wack for what he is failing on as this seemed to be a very slow and little response on his behalf. ***Parents Group*** You are doing a fantastic job by bringing your kids in school on time and making sure their homework is done, now I would meet with the governing bodies, headteacher and also the Parents Group regulalrly and demand for written proof of progress of your children as every child matters. This is their future and you do not want these big guns at the top to let them down. Mo Bradford
  • Score: 0

8:24am Thu 25 Apr 13

angry bradfordian says...

Old Dave wrote:
As a school governor myself, I understand that my role is to be a critical friend to the management of the school. If a schools standards are falling rapidly, or show no sign of improvement, then it is clear in the DFEs and Ofsted framework, that even though governors are volunteers, they are responsible. What is the point of having them if they are not accountable? It is my responsibility to know how much teaching and progress in the school is outstanding/good/ requiring improvement / inadequate, and
if it is not where we expect it to be, then to support the head in taking action.
On Cllr Berry. He is responsible for education across the city, and much of this is delegated to governors. BY sacking them and replacing them he is taking one line of action available to him! to give another situation as an example:If one store manager for Morrisons was failing to hit sales targets, would you expect the company chairman to sack himself, or replace the management at the one failing store?
My feeling is that Cllr Berry waited for an independent and impartial view on the school (from Ofsted) before he took severe action. so that he had sound evidence, and could not be accused of taking sides.
Surely the fact that the report says that

"The governing body has failed to check the work of the school or hold the leadership to account, FOR MANY YEARS and that had contributed to its decline."

means that the educational leadership should be held to account. The converse of the Morrison's argument in that there are plenty of Police chiefs, Border Agency chiefs and even Secretary of States who have resigned because of systematic failings well below their level.
[quote][p][bold]Old Dave[/bold] wrote: As a school governor myself, I understand that my role is to be a critical friend to the management of the school. If a schools standards are falling rapidly, or show no sign of improvement, then it is clear in the DFEs and Ofsted framework, that even though governors are volunteers, they are responsible. What is the point of having them if they are not accountable? It is my responsibility to know how much teaching and progress in the school is outstanding/good/ requiring improvement / inadequate, and if it is not where we expect it to be, then to support the head in taking action. On Cllr Berry. He is responsible for education across the city, and much of this is delegated to governors. BY sacking them and replacing them he is taking one line of action available to him! to give another situation as an example:If one store manager for Morrisons was failing to hit sales targets, would you expect the company chairman to sack himself, or replace the management at the one failing store? My feeling is that Cllr Berry waited for an independent and impartial view on the school (from Ofsted) before he took severe action. so that he had sound evidence, and could not be accused of taking sides.[/p][/quote]Surely the fact that the report says that "The governing body has failed to check the work of the school or hold the leadership to account, FOR MANY YEARS and that had contributed to its decline." means that the educational leadership should be held to account. The converse of the Morrison's argument in that there are plenty of Police chiefs, Border Agency chiefs and even Secretary of States who have resigned because of systematic failings well below their level. angry bradfordian
  • Score: 0

8:40am Thu 25 Apr 13

JAtkinson says...

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
Albion. wrote:
"Pupils make inadequate progress because the quality of teaching is not good enough and this has been the case for some time." (from the report)

So will changing the governors alter that?
No it's just moving the deckchairs on the titanic.
Entirely wrong. The governing body has a duty to ensure the school is running smoothly and, as Old Dave said, must be a critical friend. A good governing body will work with and challenge the school's leadership to improve. In this instance, from reading past reports,the governing body hasn't done this, has been beset with infighting and has allowed, been complicit in or, depending on the relationship with the old leadership team, partially caused a decline.

As for it being Cllr Berry's fault or that the responsibility lies with him and Bradford Council / LEA, I can understand this point of view. You have to ask why the LEA did not go in sooner or, indeed, if it was early intervention by the LEA that arrested decline sooner than it would have been by their actions.
[quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Albion.[/bold] wrote: "Pupils make inadequate progress because the quality of teaching is not good enough and this has been the case for some time." (from the report) So will changing the governors alter that?[/p][/quote]No it's just moving the deckchairs on the titanic.[/p][/quote]Entirely wrong. The governing body has a duty to ensure the school is running smoothly and, as Old Dave said, must be a critical friend. A good governing body will work with and challenge the school's leadership to improve. In this instance, from reading past reports,the governing body hasn't done this, has been beset with infighting and has allowed, been complicit in or, depending on the relationship with the old leadership team, partially caused a decline. As for it being Cllr Berry's fault or that the responsibility lies with him and Bradford Council / LEA, I can understand this point of view. You have to ask why the LEA did not go in sooner or, indeed, if it was early intervention by the LEA that arrested decline sooner than it would have been by their actions. JAtkinson
  • Score: 0

9:00am Thu 25 Apr 13

Scargutt2 says...

How ironic! Bradford Council sacking people for being incompetent.
How ironic! Bradford Council sacking people for being incompetent. Scargutt2
  • Score: 0

9:40am Thu 25 Apr 13

Old Dave says...

Angry Bradfordian, I agree. The Governors need to go, but Berry does not!

Cllr Berry is in a difficult situation. Nobody likes being told they are incompetant. Cllr Berry needs people to be volounteer governors, and also needs the backing of the community that the school serves.

My guess is that most, if not all of the governing body is made up of people of Asian heritage, as this reflects the make up of the school. This is normal and understandable. INfact its positive! People take collective responsibility for the school that their kids go to. They get involved, invest time and energy, and everybody takes some ownership. Cllr Berry is a white British man who holds the portfolio for education in Bradford. If he tells a majority Asian school, with majority Asian governing body, that he feels it is failing, he sadly opens himself and the council up for being racist, or not understadning the needs of the school and community. Not all, or even many would have tjought this, but it could have been very messy, time consuming and takes the focus away from what is important!

Instead he waits for an independent, government agency to make judgements that are based on national standards, where schools with a similar demographic across the country have also being measured against the same standards. He then acts on their recomendations as soon as is practicable.

He waited for impartial evidence before acting.

I dont see what else he could do.
Angry Bradfordian, I agree. The Governors need to go, but Berry does not! Cllr Berry is in a difficult situation. Nobody likes being told they are incompetant. Cllr Berry needs people to be volounteer governors, and also needs the backing of the community that the school serves. My guess is that most, if not all of the governing body is made up of people of Asian heritage, as this reflects the make up of the school. This is normal and understandable. INfact its positive! People take collective responsibility for the school that their kids go to. They get involved, invest time and energy, and everybody takes some ownership. Cllr Berry is a white British man who holds the portfolio for education in Bradford. If he tells a majority Asian school, with majority Asian governing body, that he feels it is failing, he sadly opens himself and the council up for being racist, or not understadning the needs of the school and community. Not all, or even many would have tjought this, but it could have been very messy, time consuming and takes the focus away from what is important! Instead he waits for an independent, government agency to make judgements that are based on national standards, where schools with a similar demographic across the country have also being measured against the same standards. He then acts on their recomendations as soon as is practicable. He waited for impartial evidence before acting. I dont see what else he could do. Old Dave
  • Score: 0

9:43am Thu 25 Apr 13

bd7 helper says...

A Free job and you get sacked for it! What's the world coming too...
You should tell the parents lets see what you can do and when do you wana start .... NEXT YEAR!!!!
A Free job and you get sacked for it! What's the world coming too... You should tell the parents lets see what you can do and when do you wana start .... NEXT YEAR!!!! bd7 helper
  • Score: 0

9:56am Thu 25 Apr 13

Old Dave says...

So just because a person isnt paid for doing a job, we should allow them to damage the prospects of a generation of kids?

If they understood their role, cared about the kids, and having had two poor Ofsted inspections, they wouldve all resigned!

Just because a person offers their services for free does not mean its a license to do unlimited damage.
So just because a person isnt paid for doing a job, we should allow them to damage the prospects of a generation of kids? If they understood their role, cared about the kids, and having had two poor Ofsted inspections, they wouldve all resigned! Just because a person offers their services for free does not mean its a license to do unlimited damage. Old Dave
  • Score: 0

10:05am Thu 25 Apr 13

Joedavid says...

After reading the above comments on how schools are run and by a mixture of people and no one in overall charge and kicking bottoms when needed and straight away, it's no wonder education in Bradford in such a mess and at bottom of tables.
Bet profitable Tesco not run in such away!
Looks like the future is non-Council schools and more of these independent schools of the various kinds.
After reading the above comments on how schools are run and by a mixture of people and no one in overall charge and kicking bottoms when needed and straight away, it's no wonder education in Bradford in such a mess and at bottom of tables. Bet profitable Tesco not run in such away! Looks like the future is non-Council schools and more of these independent schools of the various kinds. Joedavid
  • Score: 0

10:17am Thu 25 Apr 13

Old Dave says...

Joedavid, What we need is parents who see that they have a role in the education of their kids. They need to support schools and understand that sometimes criticism is needed for improvement to happen.

Ofsted visit schools at intervals of anything between a term and 5 years depending on the previous inspection. They give the best indication of how a school is performing. As more schools become outside of council control, the problems will be just as bad. Look at the debacle of the Kings science academy. Ofsted has told its governors that they dont understand what a school governing body is meant to be for! any person can set up a free school and get government funding, and they can employ teachers who are not qualified to teach in state schools by not holding a QTS qualification.
Joedavid, What we need is parents who see that they have a role in the education of their kids. They need to support schools and understand that sometimes criticism is needed for improvement to happen. Ofsted visit schools at intervals of anything between a term and 5 years depending on the previous inspection. They give the best indication of how a school is performing. As more schools become outside of council control, the problems will be just as bad. Look at the debacle of the Kings science academy. Ofsted has told its governors that they dont understand what a school governing body is meant to be for! any person can set up a free school and get government funding, and they can employ teachers who are not qualified to teach in state schools by not holding a QTS qualification. Old Dave
  • Score: 0

10:20am Thu 25 Apr 13

Old Dave says...

I am not saying Ofsted are always right, but by ignoring what Ofsted say, and not improving the areas they identify, there is normally only one outcome - special measures.

Any Head or governor worth their salt, knows that the development of any school is underpinned by acting on Ofsted areas for development!

the starting point for any Ofsted inspector is always the last inspection report.
I am not saying Ofsted are always right, but by ignoring what Ofsted say, and not improving the areas they identify, there is normally only one outcome - special measures. Any Head or governor worth their salt, knows that the development of any school is underpinned by acting on Ofsted areas for development! the starting point for any Ofsted inspector is always the last inspection report. Old Dave
  • Score: 0

10:21am Thu 25 Apr 13

Realtruth says...

It is due to the relentless hard work of concerned parents that the failings of Bradford Moor Primary Community Primary school have been brought to light.

These parents deserve nothing but praise for their sheer determination to uncover the truth. WELL DONE Bradford Moor Parents' Group.

At every turn these parents have met with resistance & lies.

SHAME ON YOU THE GOVERNING BODY OF BRADFORD MOOR COMMUNITY PRIMARY SCHOOL. Have the decency to APOLOGISE to the parents for wrecking the education of their children.

Being volunteers does not absolve you; in fact if you are doing it as badly as in this instance you really shouldn't be there.

Had the parents not persevered in their quest for justice for the children in spite of all the obstacles put in their way; the failings of the school leadership inclusive of the governing body, the failings of Bradford Education & the failings of Bradford Council would never have been disclosed. Everyone was too busy covering each others' backs.

OFSTED did not come in to investigate as a matter of course, the parents had complained to the governing body but were not listened to & were fobbed off in the hope they would shut up. Secondly, they complained to Kath Tunstall Head of Bradford Education who also decided to pay no attention, they then complained to Ralph Berry who joined in to the fracas of political flannel & he too hoped that they would go away.

It was at this point that the parents complained to OFSTED.

Bradford Education & Bradford Council have been aware of this situation for some time, they stood back & hoped that it would stay hushed up. Instead of looking out for each other they should have taken decisive action months ago.

Any demonstration by the so-called little people MATTER. The powers that be may feel that parents are of no consequence well they can think again.

No-one is off the hook yet. That report was completely damning, there will be many more questions asked and a keen eye kept on the progress and support given to the children.

People may have good ideas on paper if not converted into reality then it counts for nothing.

School leadership, Bradford Education & Bradford Council will continue to be held to account.
It is due to the relentless hard work of concerned parents that the failings of Bradford Moor Primary Community Primary school have been brought to light. These parents deserve nothing but praise for their sheer determination to uncover the truth. WELL DONE Bradford Moor Parents' Group. At every turn these parents have met with resistance & lies. SHAME ON YOU THE GOVERNING BODY OF BRADFORD MOOR COMMUNITY PRIMARY SCHOOL. Have the decency to APOLOGISE to the parents for wrecking the education of their children. Being volunteers does not absolve you; in fact if you are doing it as badly as in this instance you really shouldn't be there. Had the parents not persevered in their quest for justice for the children in spite of all the obstacles put in their way; the failings of the school leadership inclusive of the governing body, the failings of Bradford Education & the failings of Bradford Council would never have been disclosed. Everyone was too busy covering each others' backs. OFSTED did not come in to investigate as a matter of course, the parents had complained to the governing body but were not listened to & were fobbed off in the hope they would shut up. Secondly, they complained to Kath Tunstall Head of Bradford Education who also decided to pay no attention, they then complained to Ralph Berry who joined in to the fracas of political flannel & he too hoped that they would go away. It was at this point that the parents complained to OFSTED. Bradford Education & Bradford Council have been aware of this situation for some time, they stood back & hoped that it would stay hushed up. Instead of looking out for each other they should have taken decisive action months ago. Any demonstration by the so-called little people MATTER. The powers that be may feel that parents are of no consequence well they can think again. No-one is off the hook yet. That report was completely damning, there will be many more questions asked and a keen eye kept on the progress and support given to the children. People may have good ideas on paper if not converted into reality then it counts for nothing. School leadership, Bradford Education & Bradford Council will continue to be held to account. Realtruth
  • Score: 0

10:24am Thu 25 Apr 13

Andy2010 says...

To use the Morrisons comparison is stupid

A store manager at Morrisons would have their performance monitored constantly so issues could be addressed and dealt with

And its laughable people laying the blame here of the governors. Yes they should have escalated the failing school but as this as stated has been going on for years why wasn't the council or the school pulled up on this sooner. Its the Councillors job as they are in charge of education to ensure he knows exactly what is going on in EVERY school in the district and not just fire fighting when an issue comes up.

As usual its the council not accepting responsibility once again (see Westfield, Odean etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc )
To use the Morrisons comparison is stupid A store manager at Morrisons would have their performance monitored constantly so issues could be addressed and dealt with And its laughable people laying the blame here of the governors. Yes they should have escalated the failing school but as this as stated has been going on for years why wasn't the council or the school pulled up on this sooner. Its the Councillors job as they are in charge of education to ensure he knows exactly what is going on in EVERY school in the district and not just fire fighting when an issue comes up. As usual its the council not accepting responsibility once again (see Westfield, Odean etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc ) Andy2010
  • Score: 0

10:26am Thu 25 Apr 13

Andy2010 says...

Oh and as a starting point for education in this school ...if 98% of the pupils dont have English as a first language I would suggest English lessons take up 98% of their day until they can speak the language of the country they live in
Oh and as a starting point for education in this school ...if 98% of the pupils dont have English as a first language I would suggest English lessons take up 98% of their day until they can speak the language of the country they live in Andy2010
  • Score: 0

10:27am Thu 25 Apr 13

JAtkinson says...

There's a Bradford Question Time on education tonight 8-9pm.

It's all on Twitter and you can follow it using #BDQT

Cllr Berry is on along with Philip Davies MP, a science teacher from Bradford and Wayne Jacobs & Matthew Band of One in a Million charity and free school.
There's a Bradford Question Time on education tonight 8-9pm. It's all on Twitter and you can follow it using #BDQT Cllr Berry is on along with Philip Davies MP, a science teacher from Bradford and Wayne Jacobs & Matthew Band of One in a Million charity and free school. JAtkinson
  • Score: 0

10:30am Thu 25 Apr 13

Apollo says...

Joedavid wrote:
After reading the above comments on how schools are run and by a mixture of people and no one in overall charge and kicking bottoms when needed and straight away, it's no wonder education in Bradford in such a mess and at bottom of tables. Bet profitable Tesco not run in such away! Looks like the future is non-Council schools and more of these independent schools of the various kinds.
Tesco sell tins of beans. Schools educate children. Can you spot the difference?
[quote][p][bold]Joedavid[/bold] wrote: After reading the above comments on how schools are run and by a mixture of people and no one in overall charge and kicking bottoms when needed and straight away, it's no wonder education in Bradford in such a mess and at bottom of tables. Bet profitable Tesco not run in such away! Looks like the future is non-Council schools and more of these independent schools of the various kinds.[/p][/quote]Tesco sell tins of beans. Schools educate children. Can you spot the difference? Apollo
  • Score: 0

10:38am Thu 25 Apr 13

Joedavid says...

Apollo wrote:
Joedavid wrote:
After reading the above comments on how schools are run and by a mixture of people and no one in overall charge and kicking bottoms when needed and straight away, it's no wonder education in Bradford in such a mess and at bottom of tables. Bet profitable Tesco not run in such away! Looks like the future is non-Council schools and more of these independent schools of the various kinds.
Tesco sell tins of beans. Schools educate children. Can you spot the difference?
Yes, Tesco successful at what they do, Bradford School running fails over and over again.
The school system NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE.
[quote][p][bold]Apollo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Joedavid[/bold] wrote: After reading the above comments on how schools are run and by a mixture of people and no one in overall charge and kicking bottoms when needed and straight away, it's no wonder education in Bradford in such a mess and at bottom of tables. Bet profitable Tesco not run in such away! Looks like the future is non-Council schools and more of these independent schools of the various kinds.[/p][/quote]Tesco sell tins of beans. Schools educate children. Can you spot the difference?[/p][/quote]Yes, Tesco successful at what they do, Bradford School running fails over and over again. The school system NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE. Joedavid
  • Score: 0

10:41am Thu 25 Apr 13

Albion. says...

While any replacement governor is going to have to show their commitment, I think (and the report indicates) that the problems are much deeper. In some cases home life is to blame and in some (probably all) staff are to blame. The governors might have failed in their duties but it wasn't they who had direct access to the children on a daily basis.
Doubtless in a few months time we will read the usual misleading report saying how well (in meaningless percentages) the school is doing, when in fact It'll still be a poor performer in the greater picture.
While any replacement governor is going to have to show their commitment, I think (and the report indicates) that the problems are much deeper. In some cases home life is to blame and in some (probably all) staff are to blame. The governors might have failed in their duties but it wasn't they who had direct access to the children on a daily basis. Doubtless in a few months time we will read the usual misleading report saying how well (in meaningless percentages) the school is doing, when in fact It'll still be a poor performer in the greater picture. Albion.
  • Score: 0

10:42am Thu 25 Apr 13

Old Dave says...

Andy, I get your point, but how can it be the council who control all the schools in the district when many are academies or free schools over which the Local Authority have no control?

every time a school becomes an academy, Bradford Education loses money. If an average size high school goes academy, then that is about 250k per year knocked of Bradford's budget straight away!

as money is lost, jobs are too. Advisors who would have gone into support schools like this, no longer exist because of the move by so many to become academies!

The head and governors should be constantly monitoring performance. Schools where governors and the school leadership work well, pretty much know what an Ofsted inspection will judge them as, because they monitor progress over time.
Andy, I get your point, but how can it be the council who control all the schools in the district when many are academies or free schools over which the Local Authority have no control? every time a school becomes an academy, Bradford Education loses money. If an average size high school goes academy, then that is about 250k per year knocked of Bradford's budget straight away! as money is lost, jobs are too. Advisors who would have gone into support schools like this, no longer exist because of the move by so many to become academies! The head and governors should be constantly monitoring performance. Schools where governors and the school leadership work well, pretty much know what an Ofsted inspection will judge them as, because they monitor progress over time. Old Dave
  • Score: 0

10:42am Thu 25 Apr 13

Old Dave says...

Andy, I get your point, but how can it be the council who control all the schools in the district when many are academies or free schools over which the Local Authority have no control?

every time a school becomes an academy, Bradford Education loses money. If an average size high school goes academy, then that is about 250k per year knocked of Bradford's budget straight away!

as money is lost, jobs are too. Advisors who would have gone into support schools like this, no longer exist because of the move by so many to become academies!

The head and governors should be constantly monitoring performance. Schools where governors and the school leadership work well, pretty much know what an Ofsted inspection will judge them as, because they monitor progress over time.
Andy, I get your point, but how can it be the council who control all the schools in the district when many are academies or free schools over which the Local Authority have no control? every time a school becomes an academy, Bradford Education loses money. If an average size high school goes academy, then that is about 250k per year knocked of Bradford's budget straight away! as money is lost, jobs are too. Advisors who would have gone into support schools like this, no longer exist because of the move by so many to become academies! The head and governors should be constantly monitoring performance. Schools where governors and the school leadership work well, pretty much know what an Ofsted inspection will judge them as, because they monitor progress over time. Old Dave
  • Score: 0

10:45am Thu 25 Apr 13

Old Dave says...

Just looking on the Ofsted site and the inspection was on Feb 27th. the report is dated April 22! Something has been going on in the background here! Another Bradford primary was inspected last month and the report was public within 5 working days!!!

I'm off for a bit to read it!
Just looking on the Ofsted site and the inspection was on Feb 27th. the report is dated April 22! Something has been going on in the background here! Another Bradford primary was inspected last month and the report was public within 5 working days!!! I'm off for a bit to read it! Old Dave
  • Score: 0

11:53am Thu 25 Apr 13

Andy2010 says...

Old Dave wrote:
Andy, I get your point, but how can it be the council who control all the schools in the district when many are academies or free schools over which the Local Authority have no control?

every time a school becomes an academy, Bradford Education loses money. If an average size high school goes academy, then that is about 250k per year knocked of Bradford's budget straight away!

as money is lost, jobs are too. Advisors who would have gone into support schools like this, no longer exist because of the move by so many to become academies!

The head and governors should be constantly monitoring performance. Schools where governors and the school leadership work well, pretty much know what an Ofsted inspection will judge them as, because they monitor progress over time.
Make you mind up

Are you saying because this is a academy that the council has no control over it? Is so what business is it of theirs if its failing?

If its a state school then the failure of the school rests solely at the hands of the head of the department in the council
[quote][p][bold]Old Dave[/bold] wrote: Andy, I get your point, but how can it be the council who control all the schools in the district when many are academies or free schools over which the Local Authority have no control? every time a school becomes an academy, Bradford Education loses money. If an average size high school goes academy, then that is about 250k per year knocked of Bradford's budget straight away! as money is lost, jobs are too. Advisors who would have gone into support schools like this, no longer exist because of the move by so many to become academies! The head and governors should be constantly monitoring performance. Schools where governors and the school leadership work well, pretty much know what an Ofsted inspection will judge them as, because they monitor progress over time.[/p][/quote]Make you mind up Are you saying because this is a academy that the council has no control over it? Is so what business is it of theirs if its failing? If its a state school then the failure of the school rests solely at the hands of the head of the department in the council Andy2010
  • Score: 0

12:15pm Thu 25 Apr 13

Old Dave says...

Andy, No,Bradford Moor CP is an LA school, but so much money has been lost from the council's education budget because schools are turning academy, Bradford council no longer has the money needed to support the schools that it controls. I'm not saying for a minute that they were brilliant before so many scholls became academies, but it was better than nothing which in some instances is what they now offer, or at least the minimum that they can legally offer.

This is money that will go to private companies and service providers who profit from education, and guess who they employ? - former public sector advisors on lower salaries than they were getting in the public sector!
So the net result is we spend the same amount of government funding to get the same schools, with the same teachers, and the same advisors, but with a businessman somewhere making profit for shareholders.
The typical toryline of, money making at the cost of everyone but the rich!
Andy, No,Bradford Moor CP is an LA school, but so much money has been lost from the council's education budget because schools are turning academy, Bradford council no longer has the money needed to support the schools that it controls. I'm not saying for a minute that they were brilliant before so many scholls became academies, but it was better than nothing which in some instances is what they now offer, or at least the minimum that they can legally offer. This is money that will go to private companies and service providers who profit from education, and guess who they employ? - former public sector advisors on lower salaries than they were getting in the public sector! So the net result is we spend the same amount of government funding to get the same schools, with the same teachers, and the same advisors, but with a businessman somewhere making profit for shareholders. The typical toryline of, money making at the cost of everyone but the rich! Old Dave
  • Score: 0

12:49pm Thu 25 Apr 13

The Hoffster says...

I wonder if the closet Islamophobes (commenting on this story) would be doing the same if there were non-Muslims involved?

Cowardly hypocrites.
I wonder if the closet Islamophobes (commenting on this story) would be doing the same if there were non-Muslims involved? Cowardly hypocrites. The Hoffster
  • Score: 0

12:50pm Thu 25 Apr 13

Parz says...

JAtkinson wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
Old Dave wrote: Andy, No,Bradford Moor CP is an LA school, but so much money has been lost from the council's education budget because schools are turning academy, Bradford council no longer has the money needed to support the schools that it controls. I'm not saying for a minute that they were brilliant before so many scholls became academies, but it was better than nothing which in some instances is what they now offer, or at least the minimum that they can legally offer. This is money that will go to private companies and service providers who profit from education, and guess who they employ? - former public sector advisors on lower salaries than they were getting in the public sector! So the net result is we spend the same amount of government funding to get the same schools, with the same teachers, and the same advisors, but with a businessman somewhere making profit for shareholders. The typical toryline of, money making at the cost of everyone but the rich!
But this isnt about money. This is about inadequate teachers, heads and governers isnt it? If the school is failing then the fault lies with these people and its these that should be sacked. Are you implying that teachers are not accountable to anyone no matter what standard they have? Does there 6 months a year off not sit well with them? Sorry but teaching is a piece of p*** job compared to normal corporate roles and if they dont like it they should go elsewhere. At least if the school is run as a business as you stated hopefully the "businessman" will get the most out of the school to turn a profit rather than this non accountable mess you describe
Perhaps you should take up a role as teacher, then. However, I'm not sure how it works in the corporate world, but teachers must know the difference between there / their / they're and be able to use apostrophes. I'd be happy to teach you; after all, it's a piece of the proverbial, isn't it?
I'm pretty sure they're required to be able to spell "schools" rather than "scholls" as well. Seriously, if you're going to insult somebody because of thier standard of writing, check your own first.
[quote][p][bold]JAtkinson[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Old Dave[/bold] wrote: Andy, No,Bradford Moor CP is an LA school, but so much money has been lost from the council's education budget because schools are turning academy, Bradford council no longer has the money needed to support the schools that it controls. I'm not saying for a minute that they were brilliant before so many scholls became academies, but it was better than nothing which in some instances is what they now offer, or at least the minimum that they can legally offer. This is money that will go to private companies and service providers who profit from education, and guess who they employ? - former public sector advisors on lower salaries than they were getting in the public sector! So the net result is we spend the same amount of government funding to get the same schools, with the same teachers, and the same advisors, but with a businessman somewhere making profit for shareholders. The typical toryline of, money making at the cost of everyone but the rich![/p][/quote]But this isnt about money. This is about inadequate teachers, heads and governers isnt it? If the school is failing then the fault lies with these people and its these that should be sacked. Are you implying that teachers are not accountable to anyone no matter what standard they have? Does there 6 months a year off not sit well with them? Sorry but teaching is a piece of p*** job compared to normal corporate roles and if they dont like it they should go elsewhere. At least if the school is run as a business as you stated hopefully the "businessman" will get the most out of the school to turn a profit rather than this non accountable mess you describe[/p][/quote]Perhaps you should take up a role as teacher, then. However, I'm not sure how it works in the corporate world, but teachers must know the difference between there / their / they're and be able to use apostrophes. I'd be happy to teach you; after all, it's a piece of the proverbial, isn't it?[/p][/quote]I'm pretty sure they're required to be able to spell "schools" rather than "scholls" as well. Seriously, if you're going to insult somebody because of thier standard of writing, check your own first. Parz
  • Score: 0

1:46pm Thu 25 Apr 13

BertSanders says...

Teachers earn their pay. I know of teachers whe work at School and home 55 hours per week. They enjoy longer holidays tham most - but some supervise European trips during the holidays.
Strangely enough they enjoy their work and I have heard it said they are unlikely to get better pay elsewhere.
I would not wish to teach children - some disruptive - some unable to speak English - some discouraged from learning by their parents.
The Council is right to sack Governors who are not contributing to the scheme of things.
Mr Gove is talking of longer school days and shorter holidays - he will need more teachers and resources!
Like the NHS - Education is just a political football
Teachers earn their pay. I know of teachers whe work at School and home 55 hours per week. They enjoy longer holidays tham most - but some supervise European trips during the holidays. Strangely enough they enjoy their work and I have heard it said they are unlikely to get better pay elsewhere. I would not wish to teach children - some disruptive - some unable to speak English - some discouraged from learning by their parents. The Council is right to sack Governors who are not contributing to the scheme of things. Mr Gove is talking of longer school days and shorter holidays - he will need more teachers and resources! Like the NHS - Education is just a political football BertSanders
  • Score: 0

1:50pm Thu 25 Apr 13

SmudgeXVI says...

Well it took some time for the blame to get to the teachers, but it was managed. You were quite correct to say the problem is in the classroom. Can I ask that the readership puts themselves in a class of thirty plus students, who couldn't care less why they are there. They have never had any discipline and the males can do just what they want. A significant number of parents will have never have been to school, cannot speak English so are incapable of giving any input. Now look at the teacher, entered the teaching profession with skills and ambitions to educate pupils whose satisfaction is to see them go out into the world with the knowledge they have given them. Three years study for a degree and one year to become a teacher. What do they get.... Sworn at, threatened by ignorant parents, blamed for not making education funny by educationalists who have never been in a modern day classroom. Faced with 98% children not knowing a word of English ( but plenty of expletives) now trying to get some semblance of orderly communication in one year that their English counter parts have had some five to ten years learning. What happens to the standard of education in that class! Come post examination time and the press, Ofsted, Bradford education, parents, governments and a myriad of others who have never been in a situation comparable to this pontificating as to how the teachers have failed these children. The education system was never structured for having to teach the pupils English first. Why hasn't the governors known of this and brought it to the attention of the powers to be? Are they scared of being called racist?
Well it took some time for the blame to get to the teachers, but it was managed. You were quite correct to say the problem is in the classroom. Can I ask that the readership puts themselves in a class of thirty plus students, who couldn't care less why they are there. They have never had any discipline and the males can do just what they want. A significant number of parents will have never have been to school, cannot speak English so are incapable of giving any input. Now look at the teacher, entered the teaching profession with skills and ambitions to educate pupils whose satisfaction is to see them go out into the world with the knowledge they have given them. Three years study for a degree and one year to become a teacher. What do they get.... Sworn at, threatened by ignorant parents, blamed for not making education funny by educationalists who have never been in a modern day classroom. Faced with 98% children not knowing a word of English ( but plenty of expletives) now trying to get some semblance of orderly communication in one year that their English counter parts have had some five to ten years learning. What happens to the standard of education in that class! Come post examination time and the press, Ofsted, Bradford education, parents, governments and a myriad of others who have never been in a situation comparable to this pontificating as to how the teachers have failed these children. The education system was never structured for having to teach the pupils English first. Why hasn't the governors known of this and brought it to the attention of the powers to be? Are they scared of being called racist? SmudgeXVI
  • Score: 0

1:52pm Thu 25 Apr 13

Andy2010 says...

BertSanders wrote:
Teachers earn their pay. I know of teachers whe work at School and home 55 hours per week. They enjoy longer holidays tham most - but some supervise European trips during the holidays.
Strangely enough they enjoy their work and I have heard it said they are unlikely to get better pay elsewhere.
I would not wish to teach children - some disruptive - some unable to speak English - some discouraged from learning by their parents.
The Council is right to sack Governors who are not contributing to the scheme of things.
Mr Gove is talking of longer school days and shorter holidays - he will need more teachers and resources!
Like the NHS - Education is just a political football
Hang on.

If the teachers aren't performing in this school which is clearly the case why weren't they sacked as they are clearly the problem.

Do the Governors teach?
[quote][p][bold]BertSanders[/bold] wrote: Teachers earn their pay. I know of teachers whe work at School and home 55 hours per week. They enjoy longer holidays tham most - but some supervise European trips during the holidays. Strangely enough they enjoy their work and I have heard it said they are unlikely to get better pay elsewhere. I would not wish to teach children - some disruptive - some unable to speak English - some discouraged from learning by their parents. The Council is right to sack Governors who are not contributing to the scheme of things. Mr Gove is talking of longer school days and shorter holidays - he will need more teachers and resources! Like the NHS - Education is just a political football[/p][/quote]Hang on. If the teachers aren't performing in this school which is clearly the case why weren't they sacked as they are clearly the problem. Do the Governors teach? Andy2010
  • Score: 0

1:59pm Thu 25 Apr 13

Outraged English Subject says...

Yawn!
Yawn! Outraged English Subject
  • Score: 0

2:02pm Thu 25 Apr 13

Old Dave says...

Andy, No, they dont teach, but it's the governors who should be sacking them if they need sacking!

You need to understand that the leadership of the school and the teachers are responsible to the governors, who are responsible to the LA. The first step is to put in place governors who the LA know can do the job, then they can get on with getting to the root of the problem.

If that problem is the teachers, they will be gone! But how would the LA recruit teachers to a special measures school in Bradford Moor?

If it were a simple solution, they would have doen it by now. The fact is Ofsted will now tell the school what it needs to do in termly monitoring visits, so the position is now clear, or at least getting clearer.

On another note, the main educators of children are their parents. We live in a society where some people forget this responsibility. Families should encourage school attendance, value educational success, and support schools in making kids successful. They are not free childcare from 3-16 years, nomatter what some people think. Education begins at home.
Andy, No, they dont teach, but it's the governors who should be sacking them if they need sacking! You need to understand that the leadership of the school and the teachers are responsible to the governors, who are responsible to the LA. The first step is to put in place governors who the LA know can do the job, then they can get on with getting to the root of the problem. If that problem is the teachers, they will be gone! But how would the LA recruit teachers to a special measures school in Bradford Moor? If it were a simple solution, they would have doen it by now. The fact is Ofsted will now tell the school what it needs to do in termly monitoring visits, so the position is now clear, or at least getting clearer. On another note, the main educators of children are their parents. We live in a society where some people forget this responsibility. Families should encourage school attendance, value educational success, and support schools in making kids successful. They are not free childcare from 3-16 years, nomatter what some people think. Education begins at home. Old Dave
  • Score: 0

2:11pm Thu 25 Apr 13

Scargutt2 says...

Prisoner Cell Block A wrote:
Albion. wrote:
bobbymoore77 wrote:
its a asian school are we surpriced.

maybe if the parents got involved more and taught their children at home maybe they would be better academically.

i wonder what the parents want the teachers to teach. remember its a council run school so they wont be learning terrorism or how to use weapons and they wont be getting how to be like allah rammed down their throat. maybe thats what the parents want.
I think you'll find those subjects available elsewhere, should you have a desire for them.
I think if a discussion on education is taking place the minimum required to join in and castigate anyone is a basic level of English and grammar.

"its a asian school are we surpriced."

One sentence, two mistakes within the first word, 'It's'. Second word should be 'an' third word capitlaised as it is a pronoun 'Asian' and finally 'surprised'

Slightly ironic or sadly indicative of the level of standards in Bradford as regards education and it's decline over the last three decades.
The third word is surely an adjective, not a pronoun?
[quote][p][bold]Prisoner Cell Block A[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Albion.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bobbymoore77[/bold] wrote: its a asian school are we surpriced. maybe if the parents got involved more and taught their children at home maybe they would be better academically. i wonder what the parents want the teachers to teach. remember its a council run school so they wont be learning terrorism or how to use weapons and they wont be getting how to be like allah rammed down their throat. maybe thats what the parents want.[/p][/quote]I think you'll find those subjects available elsewhere, should you have a desire for them.[/p][/quote]I think if a discussion on education is taking place the minimum required to join in and castigate anyone is a basic level of English and grammar. "its a asian school are we surpriced." One sentence, two mistakes within the first word, 'It's'. Second word should be 'an' third word capitlaised as it is a pronoun 'Asian' and finally 'surprised' Slightly ironic or sadly indicative of the level of standards in Bradford as regards education and it's decline over the last three decades.[/p][/quote]The third word is surely an adjective, not a pronoun? Scargutt2
  • Score: 0

2:13pm Thu 25 Apr 13

Andy2010 says...

Old Dave wrote:
Andy, No, they dont teach, but it's the governors who should be sacking them if they need sacking!

You need to understand that the leadership of the school and the teachers are responsible to the governors, who are responsible to the LA. The first step is to put in place governors who the LA know can do the job, then they can get on with getting to the root of the problem.

If that problem is the teachers, they will be gone! But how would the LA recruit teachers to a special measures school in Bradford Moor?

If it were a simple solution, they would have doen it by now. The fact is Ofsted will now tell the school what it needs to do in termly monitoring visits, so the position is now clear, or at least getting clearer.

On another note, the main educators of children are their parents. We live in a society where some people forget this responsibility. Families should encourage school attendance, value educational success, and support schools in making kids successful. They are not free childcare from 3-16 years, nomatter what some people think. Education begins at home.
I would agree education begins at home and in the case of my 7 year old who this term has so far watched Finding Nemo, Matilda, Jungle Book and Sword in the Stone all in lesson time because the teachers were "in a meeting" (must be true as he doesn't even know what a meeting is) I would say a lot of parents are doing the jobs of the teachers as well.

The structure you laid out above whilst I don't question its standing makes no sense whatsoever.

Are you saying that in employment law a group of unpaid volunteers can sack a paid teacher without recourse? Do they have this power?

If so this structure makes no sense whatsoever. Whats the point of the Head then? or the department Heads? If they don't have the power to discipline their failing staff members and have to hope that the Governors (who aren't in attendance day in day out and have other things in their lives) do the job for them aren't all heads then redundant?

Schools would therefore be better off being run by accomplished businessmen who don't fear their staff and will take whatever action needed to improve results. After all that's what its about isn't it?
[quote][p][bold]Old Dave[/bold] wrote: Andy, No, they dont teach, but it's the governors who should be sacking them if they need sacking! You need to understand that the leadership of the school and the teachers are responsible to the governors, who are responsible to the LA. The first step is to put in place governors who the LA know can do the job, then they can get on with getting to the root of the problem. If that problem is the teachers, they will be gone! But how would the LA recruit teachers to a special measures school in Bradford Moor? If it were a simple solution, they would have doen it by now. The fact is Ofsted will now tell the school what it needs to do in termly monitoring visits, so the position is now clear, or at least getting clearer. On another note, the main educators of children are their parents. We live in a society where some people forget this responsibility. Families should encourage school attendance, value educational success, and support schools in making kids successful. They are not free childcare from 3-16 years, nomatter what some people think. Education begins at home.[/p][/quote]I would agree education begins at home and in the case of my 7 year old who this term has so far watched Finding Nemo, Matilda, Jungle Book and Sword in the Stone all in lesson time because the teachers were "in a meeting" (must be true as he doesn't even know what a meeting is) I would say a lot of parents are doing the jobs of the teachers as well. The structure you laid out above whilst I don't question its standing makes no sense whatsoever. Are you saying that in employment law a group of unpaid volunteers can sack a paid teacher without recourse? Do they have this power? If so this structure makes no sense whatsoever. Whats the point of the Head then? or the department Heads? If they don't have the power to discipline their failing staff members and have to hope that the Governors (who aren't in attendance day in day out and have other things in their lives) do the job for them aren't all heads then redundant? Schools would therefore be better off being run by accomplished businessmen who don't fear their staff and will take whatever action needed to improve results. After all that's what its about isn't it? Andy2010
  • Score: 0

2:20pm Thu 25 Apr 13

Dragon Saddle says...

I cnduo't bvleiee taht I culod aulaclty uesdtannrd waht I was rdnaieg. Unisg the icndeblire pweor of the hmuan mnid, aocdcrnig to rseecrah at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mttaer in waht oderr the lterets in a wrod are, the olny irpoamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rhgit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whoutit a pboerlm. Tihs is bucseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey ltteer by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Aaznmig, huh? I gseus slpelnig dseno't mettar taht mcuh aeftr all.
I cnduo't bvleiee taht I culod aulaclty uesdtannrd waht I was rdnaieg. Unisg the icndeblire pweor of the hmuan mnid, aocdcrnig to rseecrah at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mttaer in waht oderr the lterets in a wrod are, the olny irpoamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rhgit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whoutit a pboerlm. Tihs is bucseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey ltteer by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Aaznmig, huh? I gseus slpelnig dseno't mettar taht mcuh aeftr all. Dragon Saddle
  • Score: 0

2:44pm Thu 25 Apr 13

BertSanders says...

Andy2010 wrote:
BertSanders wrote:
Teachers earn their pay. I know of teachers whe work at School and home 55 hours per week. They enjoy longer holidays tham most - but some supervise European trips during the holidays.
Strangely enough they enjoy their work and I have heard it said they are unlikely to get better pay elsewhere.
I would not wish to teach children - some disruptive - some unable to speak English - some discouraged from learning by their parents.
The Council is right to sack Governors who are not contributing to the scheme of things.
Mr Gove is talking of longer school days and shorter holidays - he will need more teachers and resources!
Like the NHS - Education is just a political football
Hang on.

If the teachers aren't performing in this school which is clearly the case why weren't they sacked as they are clearly the problem.

Do the Governors teach?
Andy - you are correct that Governors do not teach, however, the Governors should press for teachers who can speak the required language - or better
British children should speak English.
It is inconceivable that teachers are required to teach children unable to comprehend English, especially when the class is 98% foreign speaking.
It is not surprising that the standard is low.! - and unless this changes it will remain so irrespective of who are Governors.
[quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BertSanders[/bold] wrote: Teachers earn their pay. I know of teachers whe work at School and home 55 hours per week. They enjoy longer holidays tham most - but some supervise European trips during the holidays. Strangely enough they enjoy their work and I have heard it said they are unlikely to get better pay elsewhere. I would not wish to teach children - some disruptive - some unable to speak English - some discouraged from learning by their parents. The Council is right to sack Governors who are not contributing to the scheme of things. Mr Gove is talking of longer school days and shorter holidays - he will need more teachers and resources! Like the NHS - Education is just a political football[/p][/quote]Hang on. If the teachers aren't performing in this school which is clearly the case why weren't they sacked as they are clearly the problem. Do the Governors teach?[/p][/quote]Andy - you are correct that Governors do not teach, however, the Governors should press for teachers who can speak the required language - or better British children should speak English. It is inconceivable that teachers are required to teach children unable to comprehend English, especially when the class is 98% foreign speaking. It is not surprising that the standard is low.! - and unless this changes it will remain so irrespective of who are Governors. BertSanders
  • Score: 0

2:59pm Thu 25 Apr 13

Andy2010 says...

BertSanders wrote:
Andy2010 wrote:
BertSanders wrote:
Teachers earn their pay. I know of teachers whe work at School and home 55 hours per week. They enjoy longer holidays tham most - but some supervise European trips during the holidays.
Strangely enough they enjoy their work and I have heard it said they are unlikely to get better pay elsewhere.
I would not wish to teach children - some disruptive - some unable to speak English - some discouraged from learning by their parents.
The Council is right to sack Governors who are not contributing to the scheme of things.
Mr Gove is talking of longer school days and shorter holidays - he will need more teachers and resources!
Like the NHS - Education is just a political football
Hang on.

If the teachers aren't performing in this school which is clearly the case why weren't they sacked as they are clearly the problem.

Do the Governors teach?
Andy - you are correct that Governors do not teach, however, the Governors should press for teachers who can speak the required language - or better
British children should speak English.
It is inconceivable that teachers are required to teach children unable to comprehend English, especially when the class is 98% foreign speaking.
It is not surprising that the standard is low.! - and unless this changes it will remain so irrespective of who are Governors.
I agree entirely
[quote][p][bold]BertSanders[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BertSanders[/bold] wrote: Teachers earn their pay. I know of teachers whe work at School and home 55 hours per week. They enjoy longer holidays tham most - but some supervise European trips during the holidays. Strangely enough they enjoy their work and I have heard it said they are unlikely to get better pay elsewhere. I would not wish to teach children - some disruptive - some unable to speak English - some discouraged from learning by their parents. The Council is right to sack Governors who are not contributing to the scheme of things. Mr Gove is talking of longer school days and shorter holidays - he will need more teachers and resources! Like the NHS - Education is just a political football[/p][/quote]Hang on. If the teachers aren't performing in this school which is clearly the case why weren't they sacked as they are clearly the problem. Do the Governors teach?[/p][/quote]Andy - you are correct that Governors do not teach, however, the Governors should press for teachers who can speak the required language - or better British children should speak English. It is inconceivable that teachers are required to teach children unable to comprehend English, especially when the class is 98% foreign speaking. It is not surprising that the standard is low.! - and unless this changes it will remain so irrespective of who are Governors.[/p][/quote]I agree entirely Andy2010
  • Score: 0

3:03pm Thu 25 Apr 13

Old Dave says...

Yes Andy, It would be the head and the governors that would tell the LA to sack a member of staff. In a primary school there will often be a head, a deputy, Maybe an assistant head or two (what older people like me mightterm "senior teachers" a senco, then class teachers. NOt department heads as in a secondary school.

Good governance in schools sees the head working with the governors. that is where I feel that Bradford Moor has gone wrong. The relationship isnt what it should be!

Bradford Moor was a "Good" school (Ofsted 2009) and is now inadequate. A new head, unfilled senior posts and governors who didnt seem to know what was going on has led to this. Of course poor teaching has gone unchecked, and there is blame to be apportioned to teachers too. But sacking isnt the best answer. what should happen is that there is support put in place to help people improve. if that doesnt work, then get rid by all means.

the report praises the new head, saying that they understand what needs doing to improve, and that they understand fully how bad things are. Hopefully with a newly appointed deputy and senco, and some proper governance, the school cna improve and the kids can get the teaching they deserve.
Yes Andy, It would be the head and the governors that would tell the LA to sack a member of staff. In a primary school there will often be a head, a deputy, Maybe an assistant head or two (what older people like me mightterm "senior teachers" a senco, then class teachers. NOt department heads as in a secondary school. Good governance in schools sees the head working with the governors. that is where I feel that Bradford Moor has gone wrong. The relationship isnt what it should be! Bradford Moor was a "Good" school (Ofsted 2009) and is now inadequate. A new head, unfilled senior posts and governors who didnt seem to know what was going on has led to this. Of course poor teaching has gone unchecked, and there is blame to be apportioned to teachers too. But sacking isnt the best answer. what should happen is that there is support put in place to help people improve. if that doesnt work, then get rid by all means. the report praises the new head, saying that they understand what needs doing to improve, and that they understand fully how bad things are. Hopefully with a newly appointed deputy and senco, and some proper governance, the school cna improve and the kids can get the teaching they deserve. Old Dave
  • Score: 0

3:10pm Thu 25 Apr 13

bobbyo says...

Scargutt2 wrote:
How ironic! Bradford Council sacking people for being incompetent.
True! These so called. "top management" people close rank and look after their own skins!
[quote][p][bold]Scargutt2[/bold] wrote: How ironic! Bradford Council sacking people for being incompetent.[/p][/quote]True! These so called. "top management" people close rank and look after their own skins! bobbyo
  • Score: 0

3:20pm Thu 25 Apr 13

bobbyo says...

Realtruth wrote:
It is due to the relentless hard work of concerned parents that the failings of Bradford Moor Primary Community Primary school have been brought to light. These parents deserve nothing but praise for their sheer determination to uncover the truth. WELL DONE Bradford Moor Parents' Group. At every turn these parents have met with resistance & lies. SHAME ON YOU THE GOVERNING BODY OF BRADFORD MOOR COMMUNITY PRIMARY SCHOOL. Have the decency to APOLOGISE to the parents for wrecking the education of their children. Being volunteers does not absolve you; in fact if you are doing it as badly as in this instance you really shouldn't be there. Had the parents not persevered in their quest for justice for the children in spite of all the obstacles put in their way; the failings of the school leadership inclusive of the governing body, the failings of Bradford Education & the failings of Bradford Council would never have been disclosed. Everyone was too busy covering each others' backs. OFSTED did not come in to investigate as a matter of course, the parents had complained to the governing body but were not listened to & were fobbed off in the hope they would shut up. Secondly, they complained to Kath Tunstall Head of Bradford Education who also decided to pay no attention, they then complained to Ralph Berry who joined in to the fracas of political flannel & he too hoped that they would go away. It was at this point that the parents complained to OFSTED. Bradford Education & Bradford Council have been aware of this situation for some time, they stood back & hoped that it would stay hushed up. Instead of looking out for each other they should have taken decisive action months ago. Any demonstration by the so-called little people MATTER. The powers that be may feel that parents are of no consequence well they can think again. No-one is off the hook yet. That report was completely damning, there will be many more questions asked and a keen eye kept on the progress and support given to the children. People may have good ideas on paper if not converted into reality then it counts for nothing. School leadership, Bradford Education & Bradford Council will continue to be held to account.
Pontless complaining to these two! Have tried myself to complain in writing, all they do is pass the buk, and come back with waffle in hope you will go away !
[quote][p][bold]Realtruth[/bold] wrote: It is due to the relentless hard work of concerned parents that the failings of Bradford Moor Primary Community Primary school have been brought to light. These parents deserve nothing but praise for their sheer determination to uncover the truth. WELL DONE Bradford Moor Parents' Group. At every turn these parents have met with resistance & lies. SHAME ON YOU THE GOVERNING BODY OF BRADFORD MOOR COMMUNITY PRIMARY SCHOOL. Have the decency to APOLOGISE to the parents for wrecking the education of their children. Being volunteers does not absolve you; in fact if you are doing it as badly as in this instance you really shouldn't be there. Had the parents not persevered in their quest for justice for the children in spite of all the obstacles put in their way; the failings of the school leadership inclusive of the governing body, the failings of Bradford Education & the failings of Bradford Council would never have been disclosed. Everyone was too busy covering each others' backs. OFSTED did not come in to investigate as a matter of course, the parents had complained to the governing body but were not listened to & were fobbed off in the hope they would shut up. Secondly, they complained to Kath Tunstall Head of Bradford Education who also decided to pay no attention, they then complained to Ralph Berry who joined in to the fracas of political flannel & he too hoped that they would go away. It was at this point that the parents complained to OFSTED. Bradford Education & Bradford Council have been aware of this situation for some time, they stood back & hoped that it would stay hushed up. Instead of looking out for each other they should have taken decisive action months ago. Any demonstration by the so-called little people MATTER. The powers that be may feel that parents are of no consequence well they can think again. No-one is off the hook yet. That report was completely damning, there will be many more questions asked and a keen eye kept on the progress and support given to the children. People may have good ideas on paper if not converted into reality then it counts for nothing. School leadership, Bradford Education & Bradford Council will continue to be held to account.[/p][/quote]Pontless complaining to these two! Have tried myself to complain in writing, all they do is pass the buk, and come back with waffle in hope you will go away ! bobbyo
  • Score: 0

3:30pm Thu 25 Apr 13

bobbyo says...

Untill Ofsted start to turn up at schools un,announced these standards may carry on, schools are pre,warned they are to be inspected and all the stops are pulled out to make big impressions with the inspectors! INSPECTORS inspect but turn up unannounced !!
Untill Ofsted start to turn up at schools un,announced these standards may carry on, schools are pre,warned they are to be inspected and all the stops are pulled out to make big impressions with the inspectors! INSPECTORS inspect but turn up unannounced !! bobbyo
  • Score: 0

3:44pm Thu 25 Apr 13

Outraged English Subject says...

bobbyo wrote:
Untill Ofsted start to turn up at schools un,announced these standards may carry on, schools are pre,warned they are to be inspected and all the stops are pulled out to make big impressions with the inspectors! INSPECTORS inspect but turn up unannounced !!
Exactly!
[quote][p][bold]bobbyo[/bold] wrote: Untill Ofsted start to turn up at schools un,announced these standards may carry on, schools are pre,warned they are to be inspected and all the stops are pulled out to make big impressions with the inspectors! INSPECTORS inspect but turn up unannounced !![/p][/quote]Exactly! Outraged English Subject
  • Score: 0

3:53pm Thu 25 Apr 13

MeccaBingo1 says...

BertSanders wrote:
Teachers earn their pay. I know of teachers whe work at School and home 55 hours per week. They enjoy longer holidays tham most - but some supervise European trips during the holidays.
Strangely enough they enjoy their work and I have heard it said they are unlikely to get better pay elsewhere.
I would not wish to teach children - some disruptive - some unable to speak English - some discouraged from learning by their parents.
The Council is right to sack Governors who are not contributing to the scheme of things.
Mr Gove is talking of longer school days and shorter holidays - he will need more teachers and resources!
Like the NHS - Education is just a political football
Teachers are well-paid professionals.

Sorry my mistake, over paid, moaning, public sector leeches. Most work less then 40 hours a week, Min 12-week holiday a year, final salary pension, full sick pay but still consider strike action.

Not bad work if you can get it!

This school is full of teachers who gave up years ago.

Just feel sorry for the children.
[quote][p][bold]BertSanders[/bold] wrote: Teachers earn their pay. I know of teachers whe work at School and home 55 hours per week. They enjoy longer holidays tham most - but some supervise European trips during the holidays. Strangely enough they enjoy their work and I have heard it said they are unlikely to get better pay elsewhere. I would not wish to teach children - some disruptive - some unable to speak English - some discouraged from learning by their parents. The Council is right to sack Governors who are not contributing to the scheme of things. Mr Gove is talking of longer school days and shorter holidays - he will need more teachers and resources! Like the NHS - Education is just a political football[/p][/quote]Teachers are well-paid professionals. Sorry my mistake, over paid, moaning, public sector leeches. Most work less then 40 hours a week, Min 12-week holiday a year, final salary pension, full sick pay but still consider strike action. Not bad work if you can get it! This school is full of teachers who gave up years ago. Just feel sorry for the children. MeccaBingo1
  • Score: 0

4:25pm Thu 25 Apr 13

Prisoner Cell Block A says...

Dragon Saddle wrote:
I cnduo't bvleiee taht I culod aulaclty uesdtannrd waht I was rdnaieg. Unisg the icndeblire pweor of the hmuan mnid, aocdcrnig to rseecrah at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mttaer in waht oderr the lterets in a wrod are, the olny irpoamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rhgit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whoutit a pboerlm. Tihs is bucseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey ltteer by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Aaznmig, huh? I gseus slpelnig dseno't mettar taht mcuh aeftr all.
Pattern reading and has naff all to do with spelling.
[quote][p][bold]Dragon Saddle[/bold] wrote: I cnduo't bvleiee taht I culod aulaclty uesdtannrd waht I was rdnaieg. Unisg the icndeblire pweor of the hmuan mnid, aocdcrnig to rseecrah at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mttaer in waht oderr the lterets in a wrod are, the olny irpoamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rhgit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whoutit a pboerlm. Tihs is bucseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey ltteer by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Aaznmig, huh? I gseus slpelnig dseno't mettar taht mcuh aeftr all.[/p][/quote]Pattern reading and has naff all to do with spelling. Prisoner Cell Block A
  • Score: 0

4:27pm Thu 25 Apr 13

Prisoner Cell Block A says...

I seem to recall a certain Ray Honeyford being prophetic regarding this, he was drummed out of town and education for speaking his mind and the truth. Under the banner of racism.

Should be held up as a martyr to education in Bradford if you ask me.
I seem to recall a certain Ray Honeyford being prophetic regarding this, he was drummed out of town and education for speaking his mind and the truth. Under the banner of racism. Should be held up as a martyr to education in Bradford if you ask me. Prisoner Cell Block A
  • Score: 0

4:36pm Thu 25 Apr 13

SmudgeXVI says...

If you think teachers are overpaid get in there and try it yourself, then when you find you are expected to baby sit for the undisciplined children and wipe their buts, put up with being called paedophiles sworn at and threatened from uneducated parents who just want to get rid of their kids for a day, come back and say SORRY!
If you think teachers are overpaid get in there and try it yourself, then when you find you are expected to baby sit for the undisciplined children and wipe their buts, put up with being called paedophiles sworn at and threatened from uneducated parents who just want to get rid of their kids for a day, come back and say SORRY! SmudgeXVI
  • Score: 0

4:44pm Thu 25 Apr 13

BertSanders says...

MeccaBingo1 wrote:
BertSanders wrote:
Teachers earn their pay. I know of teachers whe work at School and home 55 hours per week. They enjoy longer holidays tham most - but some supervise European trips during the holidays.
Strangely enough they enjoy their work and I have heard it said they are unlikely to get better pay elsewhere.
I would not wish to teach children - some disruptive - some unable to speak English - some discouraged from learning by their parents.
The Council is right to sack Governors who are not contributing to the scheme of things.
Mr Gove is talking of longer school days and shorter holidays - he will need more teachers and resources!
Like the NHS - Education is just a political football
Teachers are well-paid professionals.

Sorry my mistake, over paid, moaning, public sector leeches. Most work less then 40 hours a week, Min 12-week holiday a year, final salary pension, full sick pay but still consider strike action.

Not bad work if you can get it!

This school is full of teachers who gave up years ago.

Just feel sorry for the children.
Would or could you do it. I could not and would not, Teachers have to prepare their lessons - and in this case deliver them to non English speakers, who are probably not interested.
Generally I believe teachers do a good job.- but I am retired and l cannot remember when things were more difficult than they are today. - but this is Bradford - achieving rock bottom for peaceable activity in Yorkshire.
The School is rock bottom and I cannot imagine there being a rush to get their jobs if all the teachers quit.
their "attractive" jobs.
[quote][p][bold]MeccaBingo1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BertSanders[/bold] wrote: Teachers earn their pay. I know of teachers whe work at School and home 55 hours per week. They enjoy longer holidays tham most - but some supervise European trips during the holidays. Strangely enough they enjoy their work and I have heard it said they are unlikely to get better pay elsewhere. I would not wish to teach children - some disruptive - some unable to speak English - some discouraged from learning by their parents. The Council is right to sack Governors who are not contributing to the scheme of things. Mr Gove is talking of longer school days and shorter holidays - he will need more teachers and resources! Like the NHS - Education is just a political football[/p][/quote]Teachers are well-paid professionals. Sorry my mistake, over paid, moaning, public sector leeches. Most work less then 40 hours a week, Min 12-week holiday a year, final salary pension, full sick pay but still consider strike action. Not bad work if you can get it! This school is full of teachers who gave up years ago. Just feel sorry for the children.[/p][/quote]Would or could you do it. I could not and would not, Teachers have to prepare their lessons - and in this case deliver them to non English speakers, who are probably not interested. Generally I believe teachers do a good job.- but I am retired and l cannot remember when things were more difficult than they are today. - but this is Bradford - achieving rock bottom for peaceable activity in Yorkshire. The School is rock bottom and I cannot imagine there being a rush to get their jobs if all the teachers quit. their "attractive" jobs. BertSanders
  • Score: 0

4:57pm Thu 25 Apr 13

Albion. says...

Prisoner Cell Block A wrote:
I seem to recall a certain Ray Honeyford being prophetic regarding this, he was drummed out of town and education for speaking his mind and the truth. Under the banner of racism.

Should be held up as a martyr to education in Bradford if you ask me.
Yes indeed! He should have been backed instead of pilloried.
[quote][p][bold]Prisoner Cell Block A[/bold] wrote: I seem to recall a certain Ray Honeyford being prophetic regarding this, he was drummed out of town and education for speaking his mind and the truth. Under the banner of racism. Should be held up as a martyr to education in Bradford if you ask me.[/p][/quote]Yes indeed! He should have been backed instead of pilloried. Albion.
  • Score: 0

5:00pm Thu 25 Apr 13

Outraged English Subject says...

well said.
well said. Outraged English Subject
  • Score: 0

5:03pm Thu 25 Apr 13

Outraged English Subject says...

BertSanders wrote:
MeccaBingo1 wrote:
BertSanders wrote:
Teachers earn their pay. I know of teachers whe work at School and home 55 hours per week. They enjoy longer holidays tham most - but some supervise European trips during the holidays.
Strangely enough they enjoy their work and I have heard it said they are unlikely to get better pay elsewhere.
I would not wish to teach children - some disruptive - some unable to speak English - some discouraged from learning by their parents.
The Council is right to sack Governors who are not contributing to the scheme of things.
Mr Gove is talking of longer school days and shorter holidays - he will need more teachers and resources!
Like the NHS - Education is just a political football
Teachers are well-paid professionals.

Sorry my mistake, over paid, moaning, public sector leeches. Most work less then 40 hours a week, Min 12-week holiday a year, final salary pension, full sick pay but still consider strike action.

Not bad work if you can get it!

This school is full of teachers who gave up years ago.

Just feel sorry for the children.
Would or could you do it. I could not and would not, Teachers have to prepare their lessons - and in this case deliver them to non English speakers, who are probably not interested.
Generally I believe teachers do a good job.- but I am retired and l cannot remember when things were more difficult than they are today. - but this is Bradford - achieving rock bottom for peaceable activity in Yorkshire.
The School is rock bottom and I cannot imagine there being a rush to get their jobs if all the teachers quit.
their "attractive" jobs.
Well said.
[quote][p][bold]BertSanders[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MeccaBingo1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BertSanders[/bold] wrote: Teachers earn their pay. I know of teachers whe work at School and home 55 hours per week. They enjoy longer holidays tham most - but some supervise European trips during the holidays. Strangely enough they enjoy their work and I have heard it said they are unlikely to get better pay elsewhere. I would not wish to teach children - some disruptive - some unable to speak English - some discouraged from learning by their parents. The Council is right to sack Governors who are not contributing to the scheme of things. Mr Gove is talking of longer school days and shorter holidays - he will need more teachers and resources! Like the NHS - Education is just a political football[/p][/quote]Teachers are well-paid professionals. Sorry my mistake, over paid, moaning, public sector leeches. Most work less then 40 hours a week, Min 12-week holiday a year, final salary pension, full sick pay but still consider strike action. Not bad work if you can get it! This school is full of teachers who gave up years ago. Just feel sorry for the children.[/p][/quote]Would or could you do it. I could not and would not, Teachers have to prepare their lessons - and in this case deliver them to non English speakers, who are probably not interested. Generally I believe teachers do a good job.- but I am retired and l cannot remember when things were more difficult than they are today. - but this is Bradford - achieving rock bottom for peaceable activity in Yorkshire. The School is rock bottom and I cannot imagine there being a rush to get their jobs if all the teachers quit. their "attractive" jobs.[/p][/quote]Well said. Outraged English Subject
  • Score: 0

6:02pm Thu 25 Apr 13

Andy2010 says...

SmudgeXVI wrote:
If you think teachers are overpaid get in there and try it yourself, then when you find you are expected to baby sit for the undisciplined children and wipe their buts, put up with being called paedophiles sworn at and threatened from uneducated parents who just want to get rid of their kids for a day, come back and say SORRY!
No-one is really saying teachers are overpaid. What I have found is their constant moaning about the conditions etc etc etc and threatening strike action constantly is where the public have fallen out with them. I remember a teacher speaking on the news about strike action and blaming the "bankers"

Well on your example lets flip it. Why dont teachers become bankers then. Work 100 hour weeks, have the stress of managing millions of pounds knowing that the slightest mistake may not only lead to your sacking and never working in that area again but also the knock on effect of job losses of the companies they represent. I could go on.

And no...parents dont generally want to "get rid" of their children for the day. They want them to be educated and pay for the service through their taxes whilst they go out to work. If teachers are that stupid to beleive that their job wouldnt involve what you stated they shouldnt be in the profession. Its like a Traffic Warden complaining they are getting abuse. It comes with the job. Dont like it ?...well look for another job lazy so and so
[quote][p][bold]SmudgeXVI[/bold] wrote: If you think teachers are overpaid get in there and try it yourself, then when you find you are expected to baby sit for the undisciplined children and wipe their buts, put up with being called paedophiles sworn at and threatened from uneducated parents who just want to get rid of their kids for a day, come back and say SORRY![/p][/quote]No-one is really saying teachers are overpaid. What I have found is their constant moaning about the conditions etc etc etc and threatening strike action constantly is where the public have fallen out with them. I remember a teacher speaking on the news about strike action and blaming the "bankers" Well on your example lets flip it. Why dont teachers become bankers then. Work 100 hour weeks, have the stress of managing millions of pounds knowing that the slightest mistake may not only lead to your sacking and never working in that area again but also the knock on effect of job losses of the companies they represent. I could go on. And no...parents dont generally want to "get rid" of their children for the day. They want them to be educated and pay for the service through their taxes whilst they go out to work. If teachers are that stupid to beleive that their job wouldnt involve what you stated they shouldnt be in the profession. Its like a Traffic Warden complaining they are getting abuse. It comes with the job. Dont like it ?...well look for another job lazy so and so Andy2010
  • Score: 0

6:15pm Thu 25 Apr 13

Yorkshire Lass says...

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
Is councillor Berry in no way responsible for any of this? Is he going to lose his job?
The answer to the problem is so obvious. Even Councillor Berry cannot be so short-sighted not to notice. 98% of the pupils have English as their second language. What are the parents doing to turn this situation round. It cannot be possible for any teacher to get the best out of the children under such circumstances, in fact impossible I would suggest. If the parents are wanting the best schooling for their children then they should take far more responsibility and stop making other people taking the blame for their shortcomings.
[quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: Is councillor Berry in no way responsible for any of this? Is he going to lose his job?[/p][/quote]The answer to the problem is so obvious. Even Councillor Berry cannot be so short-sighted not to notice. 98% of the pupils have English as their second language. What are the parents doing to turn this situation round. It cannot be possible for any teacher to get the best out of the children under such circumstances, in fact impossible I would suggest. If the parents are wanting the best schooling for their children then they should take far more responsibility and stop making other people taking the blame for their shortcomings. Yorkshire Lass
  • Score: 0

6:18pm Thu 25 Apr 13

seen it all before says...

I feel sorry for the Head. What chance as she got? if I was her I would walk away.
I feel sorry for the Head. What chance as she got? if I was her I would walk away. seen it all before
  • Score: 0

6:57pm Thu 25 Apr 13

BertSanders says...

MeccaBingo1 wrote:
BertSanders wrote:
Teachers earn their pay. I know of teachers whe work at School and home 55 hours per week. They enjoy longer holidays tham most - but some supervise European trips during the holidays.
Strangely enough they enjoy their work and I have heard it said they are unlikely to get better pay elsewhere.
I would not wish to teach children - some disruptive - some unable to speak English - some discouraged from learning by their parents.
The Council is right to sack Governors who are not contributing to the scheme of things.
Mr Gove is talking of longer school days and shorter holidays - he will need more teachers and resources!
Like the NHS - Education is just a political football
Teachers are well-paid professionals.

Sorry my mistake, over paid, moaning, public sector leeches. Most work less then 40 hours a week, Min 12-week holiday a year, final salary pension, full sick pay but still consider strike action.

Not bad work if you can get it!

This school is full of teachers who gave up years ago.

Just feel sorry for the children.
You could get it if you qualified - but I think you would find it more difficult than you suggest.
I have never been a teacher and in the current climate - particularly in Bradford
I would not even try.
Teachers deserve a little praise - they do a difficult job - putting up with children and their parents - not to mention the politicians.
[quote][p][bold]MeccaBingo1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BertSanders[/bold] wrote: Teachers earn their pay. I know of teachers whe work at School and home 55 hours per week. They enjoy longer holidays tham most - but some supervise European trips during the holidays. Strangely enough they enjoy their work and I have heard it said they are unlikely to get better pay elsewhere. I would not wish to teach children - some disruptive - some unable to speak English - some discouraged from learning by their parents. The Council is right to sack Governors who are not contributing to the scheme of things. Mr Gove is talking of longer school days and shorter holidays - he will need more teachers and resources! Like the NHS - Education is just a political football[/p][/quote]Teachers are well-paid professionals. Sorry my mistake, over paid, moaning, public sector leeches. Most work less then 40 hours a week, Min 12-week holiday a year, final salary pension, full sick pay but still consider strike action. Not bad work if you can get it! This school is full of teachers who gave up years ago. Just feel sorry for the children.[/p][/quote]You could get it if you qualified - but I think you would find it more difficult than you suggest. I have never been a teacher and in the current climate - particularly in Bradford I would not even try. Teachers deserve a little praise - they do a difficult job - putting up with children and their parents - not to mention the politicians. BertSanders
  • Score: 0

7:40pm Thu 25 Apr 13

bd7 helper says...

it seems to me that kids are not interested in learning nowt to do with teaching! where are the parent outside school gate
it seems to me that kids are not interested in learning nowt to do with teaching! where are the parent outside school gate bd7 helper
  • Score: 0

8:09pm Thu 25 Apr 13

SmudgeXVI says...

Oh you poor misguided person! A professor of unsubstantiated gossip and fantasy! Banking has absolutely nothing in comparison to teaching. As your opening lines read " No-one is really saying teachers are overpaid" Then go on to say some unknown teacher is expounding views on striking and bankers. Finishing with a rhetoric remark implying as to my being a lazy so and so! May I recommend you attend your nearest school and enrol in some elementary English lessons, and speak to your tutors in an attempt to rationalise your comments.
Oh you poor misguided person! A professor of unsubstantiated gossip and fantasy! Banking has absolutely nothing in comparison to teaching. As your opening lines read " No-one is really saying teachers are overpaid" Then go on to say some unknown teacher is expounding views on striking and bankers. Finishing with a rhetoric remark implying as to my being a lazy so and so! May I recommend you attend your nearest school and enrol in some elementary English lessons, and speak to your tutors in an attempt to rationalise your comments. SmudgeXVI
  • Score: 0

9:08pm Thu 25 Apr 13

Not so simple says...

Teaching standards have dropped. All in a continued effort to dumb the people of this nation even further. God help us.
Teaching standards have dropped. All in a continued effort to dumb the people of this nation even further. God help us. Not so simple
  • Score: 0

9:13pm Thu 25 Apr 13

Whoisevans? says...

Talking about failing what about this failing council?
Talking about failing what about this failing council? Whoisevans?
  • Score: 0

9:52pm Thu 25 Apr 13

scotty1970 says...

Hardly surprising when 98% of the pupils first language is not English that standards are failing you don't need education watchdogs to tell us that!
Hardly surprising when 98% of the pupils first language is not English that standards are failing you don't need education watchdogs to tell us that! scotty1970
  • Score: 0

9:58pm Thu 25 Apr 13

Victor Clayton says...

Prisoner Cell Block A wrote:
I seem to recall a certain Ray Honeyford being prophetic regarding this, he was drummed out of town and education for speaking his mind and the truth. Under the banner of racism.

Should be held up as a martyr to education in Bradford if you ask me.
Just what I was thinking. Bullying at it's worst.
[quote][p][bold]Prisoner Cell Block A[/bold] wrote: I seem to recall a certain Ray Honeyford being prophetic regarding this, he was drummed out of town and education for speaking his mind and the truth. Under the banner of racism. Should be held up as a martyr to education in Bradford if you ask me.[/p][/quote]Just what I was thinking. Bullying at it's worst. Victor Clayton
  • Score: 0

9:59pm Thu 25 Apr 13

Victor Clayton says...

Excellent post.
Excellent post. Victor Clayton
  • Score: 0

10:01pm Thu 25 Apr 13

Victor Clayton says...

SmudgeXVI wrote:
Well it took some time for the blame to get to the teachers, but it was managed. You were quite correct to say the problem is in the classroom. Can I ask that the readership puts themselves in a class of thirty plus students, who couldn't care less why they are there. They have never had any discipline and the males can do just what they want. A significant number of parents will have never have been to school, cannot speak English so are incapable of giving any input. Now look at the teacher, entered the teaching profession with skills and ambitions to educate pupils whose satisfaction is to see them go out into the world with the knowledge they have given them. Three years study for a degree and one year to become a teacher. What do they get.... Sworn at, threatened by ignorant parents, blamed for not making education funny by educationalists who have never been in a modern day classroom. Faced with 98% children not knowing a word of English ( but plenty of expletives) now trying to get some semblance of orderly communication in one year that their English counter parts have had some five to ten years learning. What happens to the standard of education in that class! Come post examination time and the press, Ofsted, Bradford education, parents, governments and a myriad of others who have never been in a situation comparable to this pontificating as to how the teachers have failed these children. The education system was never structured for having to teach the pupils English first. Why hasn't the governors known of this and brought it to the attention of the powers to be? Are they scared of being called racist?
Excellent post.
[quote][p][bold]SmudgeXVI[/bold] wrote: Well it took some time for the blame to get to the teachers, but it was managed. You were quite correct to say the problem is in the classroom. Can I ask that the readership puts themselves in a class of thirty plus students, who couldn't care less why they are there. They have never had any discipline and the males can do just what they want. A significant number of parents will have never have been to school, cannot speak English so are incapable of giving any input. Now look at the teacher, entered the teaching profession with skills and ambitions to educate pupils whose satisfaction is to see them go out into the world with the knowledge they have given them. Three years study for a degree and one year to become a teacher. What do they get.... Sworn at, threatened by ignorant parents, blamed for not making education funny by educationalists who have never been in a modern day classroom. Faced with 98% children not knowing a word of English ( but plenty of expletives) now trying to get some semblance of orderly communication in one year that their English counter parts have had some five to ten years learning. What happens to the standard of education in that class! Come post examination time and the press, Ofsted, Bradford education, parents, governments and a myriad of others who have never been in a situation comparable to this pontificating as to how the teachers have failed these children. The education system was never structured for having to teach the pupils English first. Why hasn't the governors known of this and brought it to the attention of the powers to be? Are they scared of being called racist?[/p][/quote]Excellent post. Victor Clayton
  • Score: 0

11:16pm Thu 25 Apr 13

capacioustraverse says...

As usual the same old crew - spouting the same old clichéd inanities! An inconvenient truth but the this so called 98% ESL figure is utterly bogus- proper bilingualism is an intellectual strength proven over and over again in academic studies (understandably the intellectually gifted amongst you would not be able to see this because your too busy baiting). Most, if not all of these kids can speak English albeit with an accent and its laziness of the highest order for the educational establishment, in cahoots with the febrish members of the T & A blogosphere What my ‘friends’ the keyboard ‘warrioristas‘ fail to realise there are a large number of schools in Bradford which have a very different ethnic make-up i.e. the feckless majority who have similar high aspirations. The results of these schools are even worse! How can this square be circled? In summary, the transformation that has taken place in the school next door points to where things have gone wrong at BMPS. I am afraid the likes of Cllr. R. Berry(Bradford Education Authority) and the current/previous staff are largely to blame. In addition, there are parents at the school who need to pull their proverbial fingers out!!
As usual the same old crew - spouting the same old clichéd inanities! An inconvenient truth but the this so called 98% ESL figure is utterly bogus- proper bilingualism is an intellectual strength proven over and over again in academic studies (understandably the intellectually gifted amongst you would not be able to see this because your too busy baiting). Most, if not all of these kids can speak English albeit with an accent and its laziness of the highest order for the educational establishment, in cahoots with the febrish members of the T & A blogosphere What my ‘friends’ the keyboard ‘warrioristas‘ fail to realise there are a large number of schools in Bradford which have a very different ethnic make-up i.e. the feckless majority who have similar high aspirations. The results of these schools are even worse! How can this square be circled? In summary, the transformation that has taken place in the school next door points to where things have gone wrong at BMPS. I am afraid the likes of Cllr. R. Berry(Bradford Education Authority) and the current/previous staff are largely to blame. In addition, there are parents at the school who need to pull their proverbial fingers out!! capacioustraverse
  • Score: 0

12:23am Fri 26 Apr 13

bobbyo says...

Victor Clayton wrote:
Prisoner Cell Block A wrote: I seem to recall a certain Ray Honeyford being prophetic regarding this, he was drummed out of town and education for speaking his mind and the truth. Under the banner of racism. Should be held up as a martyr to education in Bradford if you ask me.
Just what I was thinking. Bullying at it's worst.
Mmm bullying at its worst ! Yes there are still some bullys in the system, unfortunately nothing gets done about these bully,s, !
[quote][p][bold]Victor Clayton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Prisoner Cell Block A[/bold] wrote: I seem to recall a certain Ray Honeyford being prophetic regarding this, he was drummed out of town and education for speaking his mind and the truth. Under the banner of racism. Should be held up as a martyr to education in Bradford if you ask me.[/p][/quote]Just what I was thinking. Bullying at it's worst.[/p][/quote]Mmm bullying at its worst ! Yes there are still some bullys in the system, unfortunately nothing gets done about these bully,s, ! bobbyo
  • Score: 0

8:14am Fri 26 Apr 13

MisterBD says...

what a load of rubbish , schools fail because of the area they are in. If we have some "great performing schools" why not move the heads to the poor performers.....er...
er...er... it would make no difference! league tables biggest load of rubbish in education EVER!
what a load of rubbish , schools fail because of the area they are in. If we have some "great performing schools" why not move the heads to the poor performers.....er... er...er... it would make no difference! league tables biggest load of rubbish in education EVER! MisterBD
  • Score: 0

8:54am Fri 26 Apr 13

Andy2010 says...

SmudgeXVI wrote:
Oh you poor misguided person! A professor of unsubstantiated gossip and fantasy! Banking has absolutely nothing in comparison to teaching. As your opening lines read " No-one is really saying teachers are overpaid" Then go on to say some unknown teacher is expounding views on striking and bankers. Finishing with a rhetoric remark implying as to my being a lazy so and so! May I recommend you attend your nearest school and enrol in some elementary English lessons, and speak to your tutors in an attempt to rationalise your comments.
Letters after my name would suggest I dont need to

You clearly are one of the moaning teacher/ civil service brigade
[quote][p][bold]SmudgeXVI[/bold] wrote: Oh you poor misguided person! A professor of unsubstantiated gossip and fantasy! Banking has absolutely nothing in comparison to teaching. As your opening lines read " No-one is really saying teachers are overpaid" Then go on to say some unknown teacher is expounding views on striking and bankers. Finishing with a rhetoric remark implying as to my being a lazy so and so! May I recommend you attend your nearest school and enrol in some elementary English lessons, and speak to your tutors in an attempt to rationalise your comments.[/p][/quote]Letters after my name would suggest I dont need to You clearly are one of the moaning teacher/ civil service brigade Andy2010
  • Score: 0

8:58am Fri 26 Apr 13

Andy2010 says...

Victor Clayton wrote:
SmudgeXVI wrote:
Well it took some time for the blame to get to the teachers, but it was managed. You were quite correct to say the problem is in the classroom. Can I ask that the readership puts themselves in a class of thirty plus students, who couldn't care less why they are there. They have never had any discipline and the males can do just what they want. A significant number of parents will have never have been to school, cannot speak English so are incapable of giving any input. Now look at the teacher, entered the teaching profession with skills and ambitions to educate pupils whose satisfaction is to see them go out into the world with the knowledge they have given them. Three years study for a degree and one year to become a teacher. What do they get.... Sworn at, threatened by ignorant parents, blamed for not making education funny by educationalists who have never been in a modern day classroom. Faced with 98% children not knowing a word of English ( but plenty of expletives) now trying to get some semblance of orderly communication in one year that their English counter parts have had some five to ten years learning. What happens to the standard of education in that class! Come post examination time and the press, Ofsted, Bradford education, parents, governments and a myriad of others who have never been in a situation comparable to this pontificating as to how the teachers have failed these children. The education system was never structured for having to teach the pupils English first. Why hasn't the governors known of this and brought it to the attention of the powers to be? Are they scared of being called racist?
Excellent post.
Not really

Teachers especially of the last ten years have known all along that this goes on in classrooms. The good teachers are experts in handling these situations but most are useless at handling unruly children. Not all entirely their fault due to restrictions but its a skill they need to develop and shouldn't be teaching until they know how to handle these situations
[quote][p][bold]Victor Clayton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]SmudgeXVI[/bold] wrote: Well it took some time for the blame to get to the teachers, but it was managed. You were quite correct to say the problem is in the classroom. Can I ask that the readership puts themselves in a class of thirty plus students, who couldn't care less why they are there. They have never had any discipline and the males can do just what they want. A significant number of parents will have never have been to school, cannot speak English so are incapable of giving any input. Now look at the teacher, entered the teaching profession with skills and ambitions to educate pupils whose satisfaction is to see them go out into the world with the knowledge they have given them. Three years study for a degree and one year to become a teacher. What do they get.... Sworn at, threatened by ignorant parents, blamed for not making education funny by educationalists who have never been in a modern day classroom. Faced with 98% children not knowing a word of English ( but plenty of expletives) now trying to get some semblance of orderly communication in one year that their English counter parts have had some five to ten years learning. What happens to the standard of education in that class! Come post examination time and the press, Ofsted, Bradford education, parents, governments and a myriad of others who have never been in a situation comparable to this pontificating as to how the teachers have failed these children. The education system was never structured for having to teach the pupils English first. Why hasn't the governors known of this and brought it to the attention of the powers to be? Are they scared of being called racist?[/p][/quote]Excellent post.[/p][/quote]Not really Teachers especially of the last ten years have known all along that this goes on in classrooms. The good teachers are experts in handling these situations but most are useless at handling unruly children. Not all entirely their fault due to restrictions but its a skill they need to develop and shouldn't be teaching until they know how to handle these situations Andy2010
  • Score: 0

10:53am Fri 26 Apr 13

ANY WHERE BUT HERE says...

Old Dave wrote:
Angry Bradfordian, I agree. The Governors need to go, but Berry does not!

Cllr Berry is in a difficult situation. Nobody likes being told they are incompetant. Cllr Berry needs people to be volounteer governors, and also needs the backing of the community that the school serves.

My guess is that most, if not all of the governing body is made up of people of Asian heritage, as this reflects the make up of the school. This is normal and understandable. INfact its positive! People take collective responsibility for the school that their kids go to. They get involved, invest time and energy, and everybody takes some ownership. Cllr Berry is a white British man who holds the portfolio for education in Bradford. If he tells a majority Asian school, with majority Asian governing body, that he feels it is failing, he sadly opens himself and the council up for being racist, or not understadning the needs of the school and community. Not all, or even many would have tjought this, but it could have been very messy, time consuming and takes the focus away from what is important!

Instead he waits for an independent, government agency to make judgements that are based on national standards, where schools with a similar demographic across the country have also being measured against the same standards. He then acts on their recomendations as soon as is practicable.

He waited for impartial evidence before acting.

I dont see what else he could do.
Councillor Ralph berry and the other Labou'r Englishaphobes have brought this on there selves.
There will, for integration by making any decision by a poor non English speaking slum dweller, priority over anyone else is coming back to bite.
All poor English speaking slum dweller's have been trying to point this out for the last 20 years, but they were never worth listening to.
Your weak and disruptive "leadership" is coming to light, well done it'll be interesting reading (tomorrows) papers.
[quote][p][bold]Old Dave[/bold] wrote: Angry Bradfordian, I agree. The Governors need to go, but Berry does not! Cllr Berry is in a difficult situation. Nobody likes being told they are incompetant. Cllr Berry needs people to be volounteer governors, and also needs the backing of the community that the school serves. My guess is that most, if not all of the governing body is made up of people of Asian heritage, as this reflects the make up of the school. This is normal and understandable. INfact its positive! People take collective responsibility for the school that their kids go to. They get involved, invest time and energy, and everybody takes some ownership. Cllr Berry is a white British man who holds the portfolio for education in Bradford. If he tells a majority Asian school, with majority Asian governing body, that he feels it is failing, he sadly opens himself and the council up for being racist, or not understadning the needs of the school and community. Not all, or even many would have tjought this, but it could have been very messy, time consuming and takes the focus away from what is important! Instead he waits for an independent, government agency to make judgements that are based on national standards, where schools with a similar demographic across the country have also being measured against the same standards. He then acts on their recomendations as soon as is practicable. He waited for impartial evidence before acting. I dont see what else he could do.[/p][/quote]Councillor Ralph berry and the other Labou'r Englishaphobes have brought this on there selves. There will, for integration by making any decision by a poor non English speaking slum dweller, priority over anyone else is coming back to bite. All poor English speaking slum dweller's have been trying to point this out for the last 20 years, but they were never worth listening to. Your weak and disruptive "leadership" is coming to light, well done it'll be interesting reading (tomorrows) papers. ANY WHERE BUT HERE
  • Score: 0

11:39am Fri 26 Apr 13

kully says...

credit goes to all parents, this has given a wake up call to all schools in the district that parents voice is heard. well done to Cllr Berry for taking the right decision, having gathered information, working with the leadership, his colleagues and making an analysis of the whole situation within the Bradford Moor Primary School.
Lessons have to be learned by schools, Governoros, head teacher and even by parents. I would now strobgly urge the parents, local community, Bradford Council to all work together to support the school and the head teacher in her aspiration to provide good level of education for the children within her school. She took a brave decision to bring changes to the school for which she has received many challenges as reported in the T&A and may not have been an easy task for her to introduce such changes. I hope the head teacher and parents can work together for the benefit of the children from here on. These are some of the real challenges through out the Country, if you can afford to send your children to private schools, they will get good, high level of education, if you can't afford then chances are reduced significatnly for success in education for children. This is not fair and perhaps from now on this parent group can take challege of working with the head teacher and asking her difficult question in a professional manner, if children don't make progress as they should do. I am sure any head teacher would be up for such challenge and that is their job. Good Luck to all and hope to see this school achieving outstanding reports of OFSTEAD in years to come and all parents, school, children and council can then celebrate the success together.
credit goes to all parents, this has given a wake up call to all schools in the district that parents voice is heard. well done to Cllr Berry for taking the right decision, having gathered information, working with the leadership, his colleagues and making an analysis of the whole situation within the Bradford Moor Primary School. Lessons have to be learned by schools, Governoros, head teacher and even by parents. I would now strobgly urge the parents, local community, Bradford Council to all work together to support the school and the head teacher in her aspiration to provide good level of education for the children within her school. She took a brave decision to bring changes to the school for which she has received many challenges as reported in the T&A and may not have been an easy task for her to introduce such changes. I hope the head teacher and parents can work together for the benefit of the children from here on. These are some of the real challenges through out the Country, if you can afford to send your children to private schools, they will get good, high level of education, if you can't afford then chances are reduced significatnly for success in education for children. This is not fair and perhaps from now on this parent group can take challege of working with the head teacher and asking her difficult question in a professional manner, if children don't make progress as they should do. I am sure any head teacher would be up for such challenge and that is their job. Good Luck to all and hope to see this school achieving outstanding reports of OFSTEAD in years to come and all parents, school, children and council can then celebrate the success together. kully
  • Score: 0

7:10pm Fri 26 Apr 13

Victor Clayton says...

Andy2010 wrote:
Victor Clayton wrote:
SmudgeXVI wrote:
Well it took some time for the blame to get to the teachers, but it was managed. You were quite correct to say the problem is in the classroom. Can I ask that the readership puts themselves in a class of thirty plus students, who couldn't care less why they are there. They have never had any discipline and the males can do just what they want. A significant number of parents will have never have been to school, cannot speak English so are incapable of giving any input. Now look at the teacher, entered the teaching profession with skills and ambitions to educate pupils whose satisfaction is to see them go out into the world with the knowledge they have given them. Three years study for a degree and one year to become a teacher. What do they get.... Sworn at, threatened by ignorant parents, blamed for not making education funny by educationalists who have never been in a modern day classroom. Faced with 98% children not knowing a word of English ( but plenty of expletives) now trying to get some semblance of orderly communication in one year that their English counter parts have had some five to ten years learning. What happens to the standard of education in that class! Come post examination time and the press, Ofsted, Bradford education, parents, governments and a myriad of others who have never been in a situation comparable to this pontificating as to how the teachers have failed these children. The education system was never structured for having to teach the pupils English first. Why hasn't the governors known of this and brought it to the attention of the powers to be? Are they scared of being called racist?
Excellent post.
Not really

Teachers especially of the last ten years have known all along that this goes on in classrooms. The good teachers are experts in handling these situations but most are useless at handling unruly children. Not all entirely their fault due to restrictions but its a skill they need to develop and shouldn't be teaching until they know how to handle these situations
Imo you are talking patronising rubbish.
[quote][p][bold]Andy2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Victor Clayton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]SmudgeXVI[/bold] wrote: Well it took some time for the blame to get to the teachers, but it was managed. You were quite correct to say the problem is in the classroom. Can I ask that the readership puts themselves in a class of thirty plus students, who couldn't care less why they are there. They have never had any discipline and the males can do just what they want. A significant number of parents will have never have been to school, cannot speak English so are incapable of giving any input. Now look at the teacher, entered the teaching profession with skills and ambitions to educate pupils whose satisfaction is to see them go out into the world with the knowledge they have given them. Three years study for a degree and one year to become a teacher. What do they get.... Sworn at, threatened by ignorant parents, blamed for not making education funny by educationalists who have never been in a modern day classroom. Faced with 98% children not knowing a word of English ( but plenty of expletives) now trying to get some semblance of orderly communication in one year that their English counter parts have had some five to ten years learning. What happens to the standard of education in that class! Come post examination time and the press, Ofsted, Bradford education, parents, governments and a myriad of others who have never been in a situation comparable to this pontificating as to how the teachers have failed these children. The education system was never structured for having to teach the pupils English first. Why hasn't the governors known of this and brought it to the attention of the powers to be? Are they scared of being called racist?[/p][/quote]Excellent post.[/p][/quote]Not really Teachers especially of the last ten years have known all along that this goes on in classrooms. The good teachers are experts in handling these situations but most are useless at handling unruly children. Not all entirely their fault due to restrictions but its a skill they need to develop and shouldn't be teaching until they know how to handle these situations[/p][/quote]Imo you are talking patronising rubbish. Victor Clayton
  • Score: 0

4:39pm Sat 27 Apr 13

flogem says...

scotty1970 wrote:
Hardly surprising when 98% of the pupils first language is not English that standards are failing you don't need education watchdogs to tell us that!
You can't teach spam.
[quote][p][bold]scotty1970[/bold] wrote: Hardly surprising when 98% of the pupils first language is not English that standards are failing you don't need education watchdogs to tell us that![/p][/quote]You can't teach spam. flogem
  • Score: 0

7:26pm Sat 27 Apr 13

Whoisevans? says...

Victor Clayton wrote:
Prisoner Cell Block A wrote:
I seem to recall a certain Ray Honeyford being prophetic regarding this, he was drummed out of town and education for speaking his mind and the truth. Under the banner of racism.

Should be held up as a martyr to education in Bradford if you ask me.
Just what I was thinking. Bullying at it's worst.
I agree they sacked Ray, for saying it as it is!!! Shortly after a group of Muslims tried to buy Bradford Moor school to turn it into a Muslim girls only school. No wonder people are frightened to speak out about inequality. As it is only used as a weapon to silence the common sense value. His point was to bring education into a even playing field not to disadvantage anyone.
[quote][p][bold]Victor Clayton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Prisoner Cell Block A[/bold] wrote: I seem to recall a certain Ray Honeyford being prophetic regarding this, he was drummed out of town and education for speaking his mind and the truth. Under the banner of racism. Should be held up as a martyr to education in Bradford if you ask me.[/p][/quote]Just what I was thinking. Bullying at it's worst.[/p][/quote]I agree they sacked Ray, for saying it as it is!!! Shortly after a group of Muslims tried to buy Bradford Moor school to turn it into a Muslim girls only school. No wonder people are frightened to speak out about inequality. As it is only used as a weapon to silence the common sense value. His point was to bring education into a even playing field not to disadvantage anyone. Whoisevans?
  • Score: 0

11:31pm Sat 27 Apr 13

kully says...

Question is how do parents, governors, head teacher and council move forward for the best interest of our children. Will the parents be willing to work with the head teacher and vice Versa and council to work with all. Solutions should be discussed and no more criticism on anyone please.
Question is how do parents, governors, head teacher and council move forward for the best interest of our children. Will the parents be willing to work with the head teacher and vice Versa and council to work with all. Solutions should be discussed and no more criticism on anyone please. kully
  • Score: 0

9:06am Sun 28 Apr 13

Mr Capp says...

Dragon Saddle wrote:
I cnduo't bvleiee taht I culod aulaclty uesdtannrd waht I was rdnaieg. Unisg the icndeblire pweor of the hmuan mnid, aocdcrnig to rseecrah at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mttaer in waht oderr the lterets in a wrod are, the olny irpoamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rhgit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whoutit a pboerlm. Tihs is bucseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey ltteer by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Aaznmig, huh? I gseus slpelnig dseno't mettar taht mcuh aeftr all.
very good
[quote][p][bold]Dragon Saddle[/bold] wrote: I cnduo't bvleiee taht I culod aulaclty uesdtannrd waht I was rdnaieg. Unisg the icndeblire pweor of the hmuan mnid, aocdcrnig to rseecrah at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mttaer in waht oderr the lterets in a wrod are, the olny irpoamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rhgit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whoutit a pboerlm. Tihs is bucseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey ltteer by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Aaznmig, huh? I gseus slpelnig dseno't mettar taht mcuh aeftr all.[/p][/quote]very good Mr Capp
  • Score: 0

10:08am Sun 28 Apr 13

gf3b4s59H says...

It seems to me that the new team are trying their best and should be supported. One perosn- the Head can only do so much when there is so much red tape. Comments like some above are damaging and hinder the work that I am sure has already started. Remember Ofsted praised the head- so it must be before her that is / was the problem......
Parents can be members of a governing body- why were/are non of this parent group (see above) on the governing body? Why don't they support the school to make it better?
It seems to me that the new team are trying their best and should be supported. One perosn- the Head can only do so much when there is so much red tape. Comments like some above are damaging and hinder the work that I am sure has already started. Remember Ofsted praised the head- so it must be before her that is / was the problem...... Parents can be members of a governing body- why were/are non of this parent group (see above) on the governing body? Why don't they support the school to make it better? gf3b4s59H
  • Score: 0

10:09am Sun 28 Apr 13

gf3b4s59H says...

kully wrote:
Question is how do parents, governors, head teacher and council move forward for the best interest of our children. Will the parents be willing to work with the head teacher and vice Versa and council to work with all. Solutions should be discussed and no more criticism on anyone please.
TOTALLY AGREE!!!!!!!!!!!
[quote][p][bold]kully[/bold] wrote: Question is how do parents, governors, head teacher and council move forward for the best interest of our children. Will the parents be willing to work with the head teacher and vice Versa and council to work with all. Solutions should be discussed and no more criticism on anyone please.[/p][/quote]TOTALLY AGREE!!!!!!!!!!! gf3b4s59H
  • Score: 0

12:17pm Sun 28 Apr 13

ANY WHERE BUT HERE says...

kully wrote:
Question is how do parents, governors, head teacher and council move forward for the best interest of our children. Will the parents be willing to work with the head teacher and vice Versa and council to work with all. Solutions should be discussed and no more criticism on anyone please.
We have some great schools out of Bradford which ours should be modeled on.
These governors who have now gone, surely had some warped agenda about what the kids should be taught.
We can only move on when we understand what these governors were doing wrong, and is there a great number of people who supported them in what they were doing.
The conversation has got to be had, do Pakistanis want a different education to everybody else.
[quote][p][bold]kully[/bold] wrote: Question is how do parents, governors, head teacher and council move forward for the best interest of our children. Will the parents be willing to work with the head teacher and vice Versa and council to work with all. Solutions should be discussed and no more criticism on anyone please.[/p][/quote]We have some great schools out of Bradford which ours should be modeled on. These governors who have now gone, surely had some warped agenda about what the kids should be taught. We can only move on when we understand what these governors were doing wrong, and is there a great number of people who supported them in what they were doing. The conversation has got to be had, do Pakistanis want a different education to everybody else. ANY WHERE BUT HERE
  • Score: 0

12:58pm Sun 28 Apr 13

gf3b4s59H says...

There some great schools IN Bradford.
I am sure the school, under new leadership know exactly what went wrong previously. They should now be allowed to move on and get on with it!
There some great schools IN Bradford. I am sure the school, under new leadership know exactly what went wrong previously. They should now be allowed to move on and get on with it! gf3b4s59H
  • Score: 0

2:15pm Sun 28 Apr 13

ANY WHERE BUT HERE says...

gf3b4s59H wrote:
There some great schools IN Bradford.
I am sure the school, under new leadership know exactly what went wrong previously. They should now be allowed to move on and get on with it!
We all need to know what went wrong, otherwise how are people going to learn lessons from this.
We have a culture of not addressing things in Bradford and it needs to change!.
[quote][p][bold]gf3b4s59H[/bold] wrote: There some great schools IN Bradford. I am sure the school, under new leadership know exactly what went wrong previously. They should now be allowed to move on and get on with it![/p][/quote]We all need to know what went wrong, otherwise how are people going to learn lessons from this. We have a culture of not addressing things in Bradford and it needs to change!. ANY WHERE BUT HERE
  • Score: 0

2:31pm Sun 28 Apr 13

gf3b4s59H says...

The report clearly states what went wrong in terms of teaching and in terms of governors- they were not given the correct information and, I would guess, had very little training. They have been removed for the good of the children. Teaching has been on a decline for a while and it will take time to provide training to teachers and put new ideas into practise. I think from t & a articles it is obvious things are changing.
The report clearly states what went wrong in terms of teaching and in terms of governors- they were not given the correct information and, I would guess, had very little training. They have been removed for the good of the children. Teaching has been on a decline for a while and it will take time to provide training to teachers and put new ideas into practise. I think from t & a articles it is obvious things are changing. gf3b4s59H
  • Score: 0

3:01pm Sun 28 Apr 13

gf3b4s59H says...

kully wrote:
credit goes to all parents, this has given a wake up call to all schools in the district that parents voice is heard. well done to Cllr Berry for taking the right decision, having gathered information, working with the leadership, his colleagues and making an analysis of the whole situation within the Bradford Moor Primary School. Lessons have to be learned by schools, Governoros, head teacher and even by parents. I would now strobgly urge the parents, local community, Bradford Council to all work together to support the school and the head teacher in her aspiration to provide good level of education for the children within her school. She took a brave decision to bring changes to the school for which she has received many challenges as reported in the T&A and may not have been an easy task for her to introduce such changes. I hope the head teacher and parents can work together for the benefit of the children from here on. These are some of the real challenges through out the Country, if you can afford to send your children to private schools, they will get good, high level of education, if you can't afford then chances are reduced significatnly for success in education for children. This is not fair and perhaps from now on this parent group can take challege of working with the head teacher and asking her difficult question in a professional manner, if children don't make progress as they should do. I am sure any head teacher would be up for such challenge and that is their job. Good Luck to all and hope to see this school achieving outstanding reports of OFSTEAD in years to come and all parents, school, children and council can then celebrate the success together.
What a great comment! Working together is surely the key to moving forward for the school. The Head must have gone through a very tough time- the only leader in school, waiting for others to be appointed. I agree- good luck and I will await the day when the school is judged good / outstanding by Ofsted. it strikes me that the parent group and wider community need to be more supportive and help and encourage. The t & a does not help with negative press like previous front pages. It is a shame it took Ofsted to show the school was making moves in the right direction- a shame the paper didn't highlight this is their headlines!
[quote][p][bold]kully[/bold] wrote: credit goes to all parents, this has given a wake up call to all schools in the district that parents voice is heard. well done to Cllr Berry for taking the right decision, having gathered information, working with the leadership, his colleagues and making an analysis of the whole situation within the Bradford Moor Primary School. Lessons have to be learned by schools, Governoros, head teacher and even by parents. I would now strobgly urge the parents, local community, Bradford Council to all work together to support the school and the head teacher in her aspiration to provide good level of education for the children within her school. She took a brave decision to bring changes to the school for which she has received many challenges as reported in the T&A and may not have been an easy task for her to introduce such changes. I hope the head teacher and parents can work together for the benefit of the children from here on. These are some of the real challenges through out the Country, if you can afford to send your children to private schools, they will get good, high level of education, if you can't afford then chances are reduced significatnly for success in education for children. This is not fair and perhaps from now on this parent group can take challege of working with the head teacher and asking her difficult question in a professional manner, if children don't make progress as they should do. I am sure any head teacher would be up for such challenge and that is their job. Good Luck to all and hope to see this school achieving outstanding reports of OFSTEAD in years to come and all parents, school, children and council can then celebrate the success together.[/p][/quote]What a great comment! Working together is surely the key to moving forward for the school. The Head must have gone through a very tough time- the only leader in school, waiting for others to be appointed. I agree- good luck and I will await the day when the school is judged good / outstanding by Ofsted. it strikes me that the parent group and wider community need to be more supportive and help and encourage. The t & a does not help with negative press like previous front pages. It is a shame it took Ofsted to show the school was making moves in the right direction- a shame the paper didn't highlight this is their headlines! gf3b4s59H
  • Score: 0

4:31pm Sun 28 Apr 13

ANY WHERE BUT HERE says...

Correct information? id of thought these were qualified teachers who would be working to the national curriculum.
What, or who stopped that from happening.
It's great that while children and society suffers, you can see the bright side, councilor, civil servant.
Correct information? id of thought these were qualified teachers who would be working to the national curriculum. What, or who stopped that from happening. It's great that while children and society suffers, you can see the bright side, councilor, civil servant. ANY WHERE BUT HERE
  • Score: 0

4:52pm Sun 28 Apr 13

gf3b4s59H says...

Information to governors would come from the head teacher, not the teachers. At most there are ever two teachers on a governing body- one is normally a teaching assistant. The children may have 'suffered' under previous leadership but this does seem the case now. What or who stopped the correct information being shared is a question I can't answer but I think the quotes from the report in the paper give enough hints BUT THE SCHOOL NEEDS TO MOVE ON! THIS IS IN THE PAST. Energy needs to be focuussed on making the changes and improving- my opinion. And I know this will be easier said than done for the staff and wider community.
If we do not see a 'bright side' and look forward and be positive what hope does the school and the children have?
If you are referring to me as a cuncilor or a civil servant- I am neither.
Information to governors would come from the head teacher, not the teachers. At most there are ever two teachers on a governing body- one is normally a teaching assistant. The children may have 'suffered' under previous leadership but this does seem the case now. What or who stopped the correct information being shared is a question I can't answer but I think the quotes from the report in the paper give enough hints BUT THE SCHOOL NEEDS TO MOVE ON! THIS IS IN THE PAST. Energy needs to be focuussed on making the changes and improving- my opinion. And I know this will be easier said than done for the staff and wider community. If we do not see a 'bright side' and look forward and be positive what hope does the school and the children have? If you are referring to me as a cuncilor or a civil servant- I am neither. gf3b4s59H
  • Score: 0

10:45pm Sun 28 Apr 13

MisterBD says...

gf3b4s59H wrote:
There some great schools IN Bradford.
I am sure the school, under new leadership know exactly what went wrong previously. They should now be allowed to move on and get on with it!
no there are some good areas in Bradford, where there are good schools .....there is a difference
[quote][p][bold]gf3b4s59H[/bold] wrote: There some great schools IN Bradford. I am sure the school, under new leadership know exactly what went wrong previously. They should now be allowed to move on and get on with it![/p][/quote]no there are some good areas in Bradford, where there are good schools .....there is a difference MisterBD
  • Score: 0

10:59pm Sun 28 Apr 13

ANY WHERE BUT HERE says...

gf3b4s59H wrote:
Information to governors would come from the head teacher, not the teachers. At most there are ever two teachers on a governing body- one is normally a teaching assistant. The children may have 'suffered' under previous leadership but this does seem the case now. What or who stopped the correct information being shared is a question I can't answer but I think the quotes from the report in the paper give enough hints BUT THE SCHOOL NEEDS TO MOVE ON! THIS IS IN THE PAST. Energy needs to be focuussed on making the changes and improving- my opinion. And I know this will be easier said than done for the staff and wider community.
If we do not see a 'bright side' and look forward and be positive what hope does the school and the children have?
If you are referring to me as a cuncilor or a civil servant- I am neither.
You seem to go off topic?. What has happened here is the governors have been throwing their weight and ideas on to the school. Just what they tried to get away with was not in the interest of the school, what were they doing, what ideology and teachings were they for. Has for the T@A reporting it, what would you wish them to wright. It's there duty to tell the truth about a Public school when reporting to the public. I respect everybody's opinion, but yours is scary!.
[quote][p][bold]gf3b4s59H[/bold] wrote: Information to governors would come from the head teacher, not the teachers. At most there are ever two teachers on a governing body- one is normally a teaching assistant. The children may have 'suffered' under previous leadership but this does seem the case now. What or who stopped the correct information being shared is a question I can't answer but I think the quotes from the report in the paper give enough hints BUT THE SCHOOL NEEDS TO MOVE ON! THIS IS IN THE PAST. Energy needs to be focuussed on making the changes and improving- my opinion. And I know this will be easier said than done for the staff and wider community. If we do not see a 'bright side' and look forward and be positive what hope does the school and the children have? If you are referring to me as a cuncilor or a civil servant- I am neither.[/p][/quote]You seem to go off topic?. What has happened here is the governors have been throwing their weight and ideas on to the school. Just what they tried to get away with was not in the interest of the school, what were they doing, what ideology and teachings were they for. Has for the T@A reporting it, what would you wish them to wright. It's there duty to tell the truth about a Public school when reporting to the public. I respect everybody's opinion, but yours is scary!. ANY WHERE BUT HERE
  • Score: 0

6:46am Mon 29 Apr 13

gf3b4s59H says...

Scary? Whats scary about being positive and having faith in a leaderships ability praised by Ofsted?
The Ofsted report tells the truth- from people who know education!
Telling the truth- a paper- see previous Bradford Moor stories- parent group protest etc. Seems Ofsted disagreed with that.
Governors- volunteers- mahy who work other jobs- they can only challenge etc when they have the full facts. It doesn't seem like they had that.
Scary? Whats scary about being positive and having faith in a leaderships ability praised by Ofsted? The Ofsted report tells the truth- from people who know education! Telling the truth- a paper- see previous Bradford Moor stories- parent group protest etc. Seems Ofsted disagreed with that. Governors- volunteers- mahy who work other jobs- they can only challenge etc when they have the full facts. It doesn't seem like they had that. gf3b4s59H
  • Score: 0

8:50am Mon 29 Apr 13

Gabbysgran says...

Never mind sacking school governors, Bradford Council would do better to sack all their "service managers" a complete tier of management which is completely surplus to requirements and which is costing the taxpayer a fortune!
Never mind sacking school governors, Bradford Council would do better to sack all their "service managers" a complete tier of management which is completely surplus to requirements and which is costing the taxpayer a fortune! Gabbysgran
  • Score: 0

12:35pm Mon 29 Apr 13

ANY WHERE BUT HERE says...

gf3b4s59H wrote:
Scary? Whats scary about being positive and having faith in a leaderships ability praised by Ofsted?
The Ofsted report tells the truth- from people who know education!
Telling the truth- a paper- see previous Bradford Moor stories- parent group protest etc. Seems Ofsted disagreed with that.
Governors- volunteers- mahy who work other jobs- they can only challenge etc when they have the full facts. It doesn't seem like they had that.
Ofsted disagreed with paper for bringing it to the public's attention, that is NOT there job.
The sooner this is highlighted in national newspapers the better.
The council sacked the governors when they had the facts about them, lets hope this incident had nothing to do with radical and extremist views.
There are also concerns, about the possibility of the Bradford council paying these governors to keep quiet. We must positively get to the bottom of this, head in sand has never worked.
[quote][p][bold]gf3b4s59H[/bold] wrote: Scary? Whats scary about being positive and having faith in a leaderships ability praised by Ofsted? The Ofsted report tells the truth- from people who know education! Telling the truth- a paper- see previous Bradford Moor stories- parent group protest etc. Seems Ofsted disagreed with that. Governors- volunteers- mahy who work other jobs- they can only challenge etc when they have the full facts. It doesn't seem like they had that.[/p][/quote]Ofsted disagreed with paper for bringing it to the public's attention, that is NOT there job. The sooner this is highlighted in national newspapers the better. The council sacked the governors when they had the facts about them, lets hope this incident had nothing to do with radical and extremist views. There are also concerns, about the possibility of the Bradford council paying these governors to keep quiet. We must positively get to the bottom of this, head in sand has never worked. ANY WHERE BUT HERE
  • Score: 0

11:04pm Thu 2 May 13

kully says...

Seems all is going ok at the school, parents, teachers and students all have aspirations and ambitions for the children to succeed on their education . Well done to all who put their efforts and hard work for the benefit of this school, local communities and our young heroes from the BD3 area.
Seems all is going ok at the school, parents, teachers and students all have aspirations and ambitions for the children to succeed on their education . Well done to all who put their efforts and hard work for the benefit of this school, local communities and our young heroes from the BD3 area. kully
  • Score: 0

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