Bradford Council waste permit plan for residents dubbed 'madness' (From Bradford Telegraph and Argus)

allannicho wrote:
Had this system in Wakey a few
years now, stops a lot of "White Van Men"!
just put your sticker on your windscreen.

flashdonut wrote:
Everybody received teh permit letter with their council tax bill. Everybody. You fill in about two questions and take with you when you go to the tip. It is that simple. It really is. Folk need to get a grip. You are acting like it is a task. It isn't.

flashdonut wrote:
Everybody received teh permit letter with their council tax bill. Everybody. You fill in about two questions and take with you when you go to the tip. It is that simple. It really is. Folk need to get a grip. You are acting like it is a task. It isn't.

webess wrote:

flashdonut wrote:
Everybody received teh permit letter with their council tax bill. Everybody. You fill in about two questions and take with you when you go to the tip. It is that simple. It really is. Folk need to get a grip. You are acting like it is a task. It isn't.

No it's not that simple.

You've to take driving license & council tax bill to waste recycling centre then get a permit. Some of us have already thrown away (recycled of course) our council tax bill.

And what about for example someone who's just moved into the district? They won't yet have a council tax bill and yet they'll have an urgent need to dispose of items from previous occupant.

Bradford council do come in for some stick, much of it unjustified. But this decision is totally bonkers - it will cost more to run, lead to less recycling and more fly tipping!

David Shaw wrote:
Don't see what the fuss is about, I can choose which centre to go to, take my council bill and Driving licence there and hey presto..... Think sometimes people are just obstinate for the sake of it.....

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
Isn't it just easier to take your drivers licence? Surely then they can see you live in the Bradford area and they don't need to hand out thousands of permits.

Mike Strutter wrote:
What next, stopping people from say Shelf (Calderdale) driving on Queensbury roads (Bradford) and adding to the potholes ? In all seriousness though, how hard is it ? Everyone will have a council tax bill so will have the details. It take 2 mins to fill in and leave permit in glove compartment, job done. I do however see the point of all WY councils working together instead of creating borders. It is also astonishing how Cllr Sunderland only found out when she opened her council tax bill !! Isn't she the Deputy leader ? Do they not discuss anything at City Hall ?

jjbabs19 wrote:
Good, I agree with the change. I have bins for household rubbish, paper, metal & glass, bags for the plastic, and garden waste. So I already do, my bit towards recycling. So should others. I personally, am fed up with Bfd. being used as a dumping ground. The majority of which seems to be blown, dropped by irresponcibles individuals, or fly tipped. On my travels, I see little of the latter, compared to what I used to see. Bfd does appear to be cleaning up. We've still a long way to go. This is something new and a really good way forward.

Pity Poor Bradford wrote:
I live just over the border in Kirlees, and the Bowling Back Lane depot is nearer to me than the one in Kirklees. As someone who grew up in Bradford the Bowling Back Lane depot is 'my' depot.

Regarding 'White van men', you have to have a permit to be able to take rubbish in a van. I found out when I took some household rubbish to the tip in my 1966 Ford Anglia van, clearly not used for commercial purposes, and was turned away. When that happened I felt like dumping all the rubbish outside, returning in my car, putting it in the boot and driving in, just to make a point.

markjoe wrote:
This is an excellent way to save on the council budget, extra printing costs for permits, extra staff to check the permits.

Are you able to have 2 permits in case you have 2 cars, I wouldn't have thought so.

This sketch from John Bishop springs to mind: http://youtu.be/N9yA

JKcIVxk?t=1m29s

tinytoonster wrote:
you can tell they don't use it, dump outside?
cctv outside them all!!

Adamget wrote:
Excellent idea and no hassle at all. I already have my permit - took 5 minutes. I don't want to pay for other LAs' waste and welcome this move.

I have a van too and have had to have an annual permit. It's a good idea and cuts out illegal tipping.

Those who say it will increase are missing a point - those who fly tip will continue to fly tip. This budget saving could release money to attack tha problem.

Adamget wrote:
Excellent idea and no hassle at all. I already have my permit - took 5 minutes. I don't want to pay for other LAs' waste and welcome this move.

I have a van too and have had to have an annual permit. It's a good idea and cuts out illegal tipping.

Those who say it will increase are missing a point - those who fly tip will continue to fly tip. This budget saving could release money to attack tha problem.

Joedavid wrote:

Adamget wrote:
Excellent idea and no hassle at all. I already have my permit - took 5 minutes. I don't want to pay for other LAs' waste and welcome this move.

I have a van too and have had to have an annual permit. It's a good idea and cuts out illegal tipping.

Those who say it will increase are missing a point - those who fly tip will continue to fly tip. This budget saving could release money to attack tha problem.

Well they not working their own rules then, says issue from 1st April.

webess wrote:

David Shaw wrote:
Don't see what the fuss is about, I can choose which centre to go to, take my council bill and Driving licence there and hey presto..... Think sometimes people are just obstinate for the sake of it.....

OK take one example.

You live in Calverley (Leeds) and work in Bradford centre, normally you drop your rubbish of at Midland Road. Under this cunning plan you'd have to drive to Yeadon, ie opposite direction - obviously many people will just dump in nearest layby and leave the council with a clear up bill.

The_light wrote:
I think, like a lot of things now, we take household waste sites for granted. Yes I know we pay for on our council tax but it does cost money to get rid of all our throw away electronics, furniture, and other bulky items. If we didn’t have such facilities provided by local authorities we’d have to pay privately. If Bradford’s waste sites are being used by folk outside the area then the council has a duty to act to protect our finances, therefore they can’t really be criticised for what they are trying to do about this.

wobbley-bob wrote:

Adamget wrote:
Excellent idea and no hassle at all. I already have my permit - took 5 minutes. I don't want to pay for other LAs' waste and welcome this move.

I have a van too and have had to have an annual permit. It's a good idea and cuts out illegal tipping.

Those who say it will increase are missing a point - those who fly tip will continue to fly tip. This budget saving could release money to attack tha problem.

Telling porkies are we?

You haven't 'really' got your permit have you?

How do I know?
Because in big bold type, on my letter, it states...
PERMITS WILL BE AVAILABLE FROM 1 APRIL 2013.
(today is the 21st of march.)

There's only one fool here Adam, & it's you laddie....lol

Now back under your stone eh?

collos25 wrote:

wobbley-bob wrote:

Adamget wrote:
Excellent idea and no hassle at all. I already have my permit - took 5 minutes. I don't want to pay for other LAs' waste and welcome this move.

I have a van too and have had to have an annual permit. It's a good idea and cuts out illegal tipping.

Those who say it will increase are missing a point - those who fly tip will continue to fly tip. This budget saving could release money to attack tha problem.

Telling porkies are we?

You haven't 'really' got your permit have you?

How do I know?
Because in big bold type, on my letter, it states...
PERMITS WILL BE AVAILABLE FROM 1 APRIL 2013.
(today is the 21st of march.)

There's only one fool here Adam, & it's you laddie....lol

Now back under your stone eh?

He needs a permit to tip rubbish in a white van and has done for a long time.So he is not telling porkies at all.

ertnec wrote:
What a joke, things have had to change and yes it will anoye many. This will stop people who dont live in Bradford from using the service why should they use a service we pay for, unfortunately it will cause more fly tipping to combat this prosecute more and make sure when caught it costs them with very heavy fines or prison. People get a bloody grip.

flashdonut wrote:
Everybody received teh permit letter with their council tax bill. Everybody. You fill in about two questions and take with you when you go to the tip. It is that simple. It really is. Folk need to get a grip. You are acting like it is a task. It isn't.

Parz wrote:
I don't think it's a bad idea. Council ensuring that a taxpayer funded service is used only by those taxypayers funding it. God forbid.

I can't understand why it's going to cause a wave of flytipping. From the sound of it it's really not going to be hard to get your permit. If people are too feckless to go down to the tip and spend 5 minutes getting hold of thier permit, what's to say they go now anyway? Seriously, it's not exactly a massive effort is it?

collos25 wrote:

Parz wrote: I don't think it's a bad idea. Council ensuring that a taxpayer funded service is used only by those taxypayers funding it. God forbid. I can't understand why it's going to cause a wave of flytipping. From the sound of it it's really not going to be hard to get your permit. If people are too feckless to go down to the tip and spend 5 minutes getting hold of thier permit, what's to say they go now anyway? Seriously, it's not exactly a massive effort is it?

Because human nature dictates that they will not travel long distances to do a chore therefore they will flytip not very hard to work out or is it.

Parz wrote:

collos25 wrote:

Parz wrote: I don't think it's a bad idea. Council ensuring that a taxpayer funded service is used only by those taxypayers funding it. God forbid. I can't understand why it's going to cause a wave of flytipping. From the sound of it it's really not going to be hard to get your permit. If people are too feckless to go down to the tip and spend 5 minutes getting hold of thier permit, what's to say they go now anyway? Seriously, it's not exactly a massive effort is it?

Because human nature dictates that they will not travel long distances to do a chore therefore they will flytip not very hard to work out or is it.

Well then they're just feckless and lazy and need to have a word with themselves. You can't blame the council for the inhabitants being inconsiderate cretins who would rather cause a problem for everyone else, making the place look like a sh*t tip instead of putting a bit of effort in.

Parz wrote:
I don't think it's a bad idea. Council ensuring that a taxpayer funded service is used only by those taxypayers funding it. God forbid.

I can't understand why it's going to cause a wave of flytipping. From the sound of it it's really not going to be hard to get your permit. If people are too feckless to go down to the tip and spend 5 minutes getting hold of thier permit, what's to say they go now anyway? Seriously, it's not exactly a massive effort is it?

webess wrote:
Is it legal to restrict access via this permit? The council does have a legal obligation to provide waste services..

collos25 wrote:

Parz wrote:

collos25 wrote:

Parz wrote: I don't think it's a bad idea. Council ensuring that a taxpayer funded service is used only by those taxypayers funding it. God forbid. I can't understand why it's going to cause a wave of flytipping. From the sound of it it's really not going to be hard to get your permit. If people are too feckless to go down to the tip and spend 5 minutes getting hold of thier permit, what's to say they go now anyway? Seriously, it's not exactly a massive effort is it?

Because human nature dictates that they will not travel long distances to do a chore therefore they will flytip not very hard to work out or is it.

Well then they're just feckless and lazy and need to have a word with themselves. You can't blame the council for the inhabitants being inconsiderate cretins who would rather cause a problem for everyone else, making the place look like a sh*t tip instead of putting a bit of effort in.

It does not matter what you or I think its a matter of fact like it or not.

Parz wrote:

collos25 wrote:

Parz wrote:

collos25 wrote:

Parz wrote: I don't think it's a bad idea. Council ensuring that a taxpayer funded service is used only by those taxypayers funding it. God forbid. I can't understand why it's going to cause a wave of flytipping. From the sound of it it's really not going to be hard to get your permit. If people are too feckless to go down to the tip and spend 5 minutes getting hold of thier permit, what's to say they go now anyway? Seriously, it's not exactly a massive effort is it?

Because human nature dictates that they will not travel long distances to do a chore therefore they will flytip not very hard to work out or is it.

Well then they're just feckless and lazy and need to have a word with themselves. You can't blame the council for the inhabitants being inconsiderate cretins who would rather cause a problem for everyone else, making the place look like a sh*t tip instead of putting a bit of effort in.

It does not matter what you or I think its a matter of fact like it or not.

I'm not doubting that, but I can't see the need for all the rage against the Council for implimenting a free pass system to try ensure they're not spending OUR money on dealing with stuff dumped at the tips by people who aren't constributing to the system. I think some people just like a good winge.

loftyme wrote:

webess wrote:
Is it legal to restrict access via this permit? The council does have a legal obligation to provide waste services..

Very good point!, a quick google and found this,
Section 1 of the Refuse Disposal Amenity Act 1978
"the council has duty to provide civic amenity sites where residents in the area can deposit their waste",
This is off the dept for environment website, so it would appear that you can take your waste to your local tip without a permit!, just a bradford rule, probably not enforcable

BierleyBoy wrote:
Simply send everyone a letter stating to use tip you must have proof of address. everyone has their driving licence with them anyway don't they?

Tips to trip are planned for the most part aren't they?

Only like going to post office for a parcel.

Permit system totally unnecessary

collos25 wrote:

Parz wrote:

collos25 wrote:

Parz wrote:

collos25 wrote:

Parz wrote: I don't think it's a bad idea. Council ensuring that a taxpayer funded service is used only by those taxypayers funding it. God forbid. I can't understand why it's going to cause a wave of flytipping. From the sound of it it's really not going to be hard to get your permit. If people are too feckless to go down to the tip and spend 5 minutes getting hold of thier permit, what's to say they go now anyway? Seriously, it's not exactly a massive effort is it?

Because human nature dictates that they will not travel long distances to do a chore therefore they will flytip not very hard to work out or is it.

Well then they're just feckless and lazy and need to have a word with themselves. You can't blame the council for the inhabitants being inconsiderate cretins who would rather cause a problem for everyone else, making the place look like a sh*t tip instead of putting a bit of effort in.

It does not matter what you or I think its a matter of fact like it or not.

I'm not doubting that, but I can't see the need for all the rage against the Council for implimenting a free pass system to try ensure they're not spending OUR money on dealing with stuff dumped at the tips by people who aren't constributing to the system. I think some people just like a good winge.

Everybody pays in one way or another even its through VAT there is no escaping tax for us mortals. Its already cost thousands so far in just printing alone and will cost many more thousands before its it quietly dropped.

webess wrote:
The wording of the Refuse Disposal (Amenity) Act 1978 is quite clear..

"(1)It shall be the duty of a local authority to provide places where refuse, other than refuse falling to be disposed of in the course of a business, may be deposited at all reasonable times free of charge by persons resident in the area of the authority and, on payment of such charges (if any) as the authority think fit, by other persons."

In other words, if you take proof of being resident in Bradford. The council MUST accept domestic waste permit or no permit.

webess wrote:
The wording of the Refuse Disposal (Amenity) Act 1978 is quite clear..

"(1)It shall be the duty of a local authority to provide places where refuse, other than refuse falling to be disposed of in the course of a business, may be deposited at all reasonable times free of charge by persons resident in the area of the authority and, on payment of such charges (if any) as the authority think fit, by other persons."

In other words, if you take proof of being resident in Bradford. The council MUST accept domestic waste permit or no permit.

Parz wrote:

webess wrote:
The wording of the Refuse Disposal (Amenity) Act 1978 is quite clear..

"(1)It shall be the duty of a local authority to provide places where refuse, other than refuse falling to be disposed of in the course of a business, may be deposited at all reasonable times free of charge by persons resident in the area of the authority and, on payment of such charges (if any) as the authority think fit, by other persons."

In other words, if you take proof of being resident in Bradford. The council MUST accept domestic waste permit or no permit.

But if you take your proof then they'll give you the permit, that's the whole point!

Mike Strutter wrote:
My mate lives in shelf about 1.5 miles from the Queensbury tip, owns a successful business in Bradford employing 20 locals and pays thousands in business rates to Bradford council , his kids go to a primary school in Queensbury yet now he will have to drive to a Halifax tip.
He's fuming

misterman wrote:
What about the thousands of drivers in Bradford,who don't have a driving licence.

misterman wrote:
What about the thousands of drivers in Bradford,who don't have a driving licence.

roberto mankini wrote:
You need you Council Tax bill to get your permit. Why not send out the permit with the bill and save wasting time on the application process?

And why can you only use one tip?

Parz wrote:

collos25 wrote:

Parz wrote:

collos25 wrote:

Parz wrote: I don't think it's a bad idea. Council ensuring that a taxpayer funded service is used only by those taxypayers funding it. God forbid. I can't understand why it's going to cause a wave of flytipping. From the sound of it it's really not going to be hard to get your permit. If people are too feckless to go down to the tip and spend 5 minutes getting hold of thier permit, what's to say they go now anyway? Seriously, it's not exactly a massive effort is it?

Because human nature dictates that they will not travel long distances to do a chore therefore they will flytip not very hard to work out or is it.

Well then they're just feckless and lazy and need to have a word with themselves. You can't blame the council for the inhabitants being inconsiderate cretins who would rather cause a problem for everyone else, making the place look like a sh*t tip instead of putting a bit of effort in.

It does not matter what you or I think its a matter of fact like it or not.

I'm not doubting that, but I can't see the need for all the rage against the Council for implimenting a free pass system to try ensure they're not spending OUR money on dealing with stuff dumped at the tips by people who aren't constributing to the system. I think some people just like a good winge.

webess wrote:

Parz wrote:

webess wrote: The wording of the Refuse Disposal (Amenity) Act 1978 is quite clear.. "(1)It shall be the duty of a local authority to provide places where refuse, other than refuse falling to be disposed of in the course of a business, may be deposited at all reasonable times free of charge by persons resident in the area of the authority and, on payment of such charges (if any) as the authority think fit, by other persons." In other words, if you take proof of being resident in Bradford. The council MUST accept domestic waste permit or no permit.

But if you take your proof then they'll give you the permit, that's the whole point!

Read the main article again. The council are insisting you must be a Bradford council tax payer - the law is that you need only be a resident of Bradford. This scheme is unlawful, end of. This is beside the obvious point it will lead to more fly-tipping. Where do you think people turned away from council refuse sites will take their rubbish?

Parz wrote:

webess wrote:

Parz wrote:

webess wrote: The wording of the Refuse Disposal (Amenity) Act 1978 is quite clear.. "(1)It shall be the duty of a local authority to provide places where refuse, other than refuse falling to be disposed of in the course of a business, may be deposited at all reasonable times free of charge by persons resident in the area of the authority and, on payment of such charges (if any) as the authority think fit, by other persons." In other words, if you take proof of being resident in Bradford. The council MUST accept domestic waste permit or no permit.

But if you take your proof then they'll give you the permit, that's the whole point!

Read the main article again. The council are insisting you must be a Bradford council tax payer - the law is that you need only be a resident of Bradford. This scheme is unlawful, end of. This is beside the obvious point it will lead to more fly-tipping. Where do you think people turned away from council refuse sites will take their rubbish?

But as a Bradford resident, shouldn't you also be a Bradford Council Tax Payer? I fail to see the difference, other than the pedantic wording.

I'll bow to your superior knowledge if you can show me otherwise.

Mr Blondе wrote:

Parz wrote:

webess wrote:

Parz wrote:

webess wrote: The wording of the Refuse Disposal (Amenity) Act 1978 is quite clear.. "(1)It shall be the duty of a local authority to provide places where refuse, other than refuse falling to be disposed of in the course of a business, may be deposited at all reasonable times free of charge by persons resident in the area of the authority and, on payment of such charges (if any) as the authority think fit, by other persons." In other words, if you take proof of being resident in Bradford. The council MUST accept domestic waste permit or no permit.

But if you take your proof then they'll give you the permit, that's the whole point!

Read the main article again. The council are insisting you must be a Bradford council tax payer - the law is that you need only be a resident of Bradford. This scheme is unlawful, end of. This is beside the obvious point it will lead to more fly-tipping. Where do you think people turned away from council refuse sites will take their rubbish?

But as a Bradford resident, shouldn't you also be a Bradford Council Tax Payer? I fail to see the difference, other than the pedantic wording. I'll bow to your superior knowledge if you can show me otherwise.

But as a Bradford resident, shouldn't you also be a Bradford Council Tax Payer? Not at all. What if you are a lodger, the council tax bill will be in the name of the householder, not yours. Same goes for a multi occupancy house I would presume. Living with parents, etc...........

flashdonut wrote:
Everybody received teh permit letter with their council tax bill. Everybody. You fill in about two questions and take with you when you go to the tip. It is that simple. It really is. Folk need to get a grip. You are acting like it is a task. It isn't.

loftyme wrote:

webess wrote:
Is it legal to restrict access via this permit? The council does have a legal obligation to provide waste services..

Very good point!, a quick google and found this,
Section 1 of the Refuse Disposal Amenity Act 1978
"the council has duty to provide civic amenity sites where residents in the area can deposit their waste",
This is off the dept for environment website, so it would appear that you can take your waste to your local tip without a permit!, just a bradford rule, probably not enforcable

Pity Poor Bradford wrote:
I live just over the border in Kirlees, and the Bowling Back Lane depot is nearer to me than the one in Kirklees. As someone who grew up in Bradford the Bowling Back Lane depot is 'my' depot.

Regarding 'White van men', you have to have a permit to be able to take rubbish in a van. I found out when I took some household rubbish to the tip in my 1966 Ford Anglia van, clearly not used for commercial purposes, and was turned away. When that happened I felt like dumping all the rubbish outside, returning in my car, putting it in the boot and driving in, just to make a point.

midge the one wrote:
whats the problem its only a small form.if it helps keep my council tax down then good on the council.