Average speed of 32.2mph is clocked in village 20mph area

Bradford Telegraph and Argus: The 20mph signs in Gilstead The 20mph signs in Gilstead

A 20mph traffic-calming scheme installed in a village two years ago is too gentle to slow the new generation of “urban” 4x4s, wagons or vans, say residents and the results of a secret speed survey.

Retired civil engineer David Jarvis lives on Gilstead Lane, Gilstead, where in autumn 2010 a series of speed platforms and cushions were set down to tame fast traffic opposite playing fields and approach to Eldwick Primary School.

But the £80,000 scheme has only reduced the average speed to 32.2mph – according to a figure obtained from secret camera surveillance carried out by Bradford Council in March last year.

“The scheme has cut speeds, but it’s not got close to 20mph,” said Mr Jarvis, who has lived in Eldwick with wife and former village postmistress Anne nearly all their lives.

“The Council installed a secret speed survey data logger on a lamp-post in March and the average speed recorded was 32.2mph,” said Mr Jarvis, who gave a copy of the findings to the Telegraph & Argus.

“The problem is we have three types of vehicles which they don’t affect at all – HGVs which thunder over regardless, delivery vehicles not owned by the drivers, and the new thing of 4x4s which don’t feel the bumps.

“The recent popularity of that type of vehicle has overtaken the old-style traffic calming features designed to cope with cars from 20 years ago.”

As he spoke, a new-style Mini sped over a platform behind him.

“See! You couldn’t have done that in an old little Mini!,” Mr Jarvis said.

Mrs Jarvis, secretary of Gilstead Village Society, has written to police to see what measures could be used to deter habitual offenders.

Inspector Andrew Croasdale, of Bingley Neighbourhood Policing Team, said his officers were not in a position to do any more regarding 20mph zones.

He said: “If the current measures are ineffective, they should be re-engineered.”

Mr and Mrs Jarvis contacted Bradford councillor David Heseltine (Con, Bingley) for help and new 20mph roundels are soon to be painted on Gilstead Lane itself.

“It is going to be done as soon as there’s a window of opportunity with the weather and when the street painters are in the area,” said Coun Heseltine, (Con, Bingley).

Comments (18)

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8:22am Tue 5 Feb 13

mad matt says...

There are a lot of drivers who disregard any speed limit. You only have to drive at, or slightly under the speed limit and just see how many drivers overtake you.
Speed bumps are not the answer - PROPER traffic policing is the only way to stop this.
There are a lot of drivers who disregard any speed limit. You only have to drive at, or slightly under the speed limit and just see how many drivers overtake you. Speed bumps are not the answer - PROPER traffic policing is the only way to stop this. mad matt

8:30am Tue 5 Feb 13

radiobantam1 says...

Multiple chicanes and / or reducing the road to one lane at points and having give way coming up / down the road alternately will work better, and get rid of the car wrecking humps.
Multiple chicanes and / or reducing the road to one lane at points and having give way coming up / down the road alternately will work better, and get rid of the car wrecking humps. radiobantam1

8:37am Tue 5 Feb 13

webess says...

This comes as no surprise and wonder how many millions Bradford Highways have spent on speed humps which only succeed in damaging cars and increasing sales of 4x4's...
This comes as no surprise and wonder how many millions Bradford Highways have spent on speed humps which only succeed in damaging cars and increasing sales of 4x4's... webess

8:41am Tue 5 Feb 13

wobbley-bob says...

And the fact that as 20mph isn't an official speed limit, in the eyes of the law, you cannot be prosecuted for exceeding it.
No one has ever had points or a fine for exceeding a 20mph 'limit', you will only be 'advised'. You can be done for going over 30 in a 20 'limit; though, as that is the actual speed limit in your average 20 zone.
And the fact that as 20mph isn't an official speed limit, in the eyes of the law, you cannot be prosecuted for exceeding it. No one has ever had points or a fine for exceeding a 20mph 'limit', you will only be 'advised'. You can be done for going over 30 in a 20 'limit; though, as that is the actual speed limit in your average 20 zone. wobbley-bob

8:52am Tue 5 Feb 13

angry bradfordian says...

Whenever I read a story about traffic calming, the first question I always think about is:
How many of these people who are complaining about speeding motorists could say hand-on-heart that they have never, ever sped through SOMEBODY ELSE'S neighbourhood.

I wouldn't be surprised if the people speeding through Gilstead will moan about people speeding through their streets as well!
Whenever I read a story about traffic calming, the first question I always think about is: How many of these people who are complaining about speeding motorists could say hand-on-heart that they have never, ever sped through SOMEBODY ELSE'S neighbourhood. I wouldn't be surprised if the people speeding through Gilstead will moan about people speeding through their streets as well! angry bradfordian

9:30am Tue 5 Feb 13

Steve30d says...

angry bradfordian wrote:
Whenever I read a story about traffic calming, the first question I always think about is:
How many of these people who are complaining about speeding motorists could say hand-on-heart that they have never, ever sped through SOMEBODY ELSE'S neighbourhood.

I wouldn't be surprised if the people speeding through Gilstead will moan about people speeding through their streets as well!
There were studies done when speed cameras first become common, looking at where the speeders lived relative to where they had been caught speeding. Turned out the vast majority weren't people from other areas, but locals. Seemed that they thought "speed limits don't apply to locals, because they know the local roads/conditions"
[quote][p][bold]angry bradfordian[/bold] wrote: Whenever I read a story about traffic calming, the first question I always think about is: How many of these people who are complaining about speeding motorists could say hand-on-heart that they have never, ever sped through SOMEBODY ELSE'S neighbourhood. I wouldn't be surprised if the people speeding through Gilstead will moan about people speeding through their streets as well![/p][/quote]There were studies done when speed cameras first become common, looking at where the speeders lived relative to where they had been caught speeding. Turned out the vast majority weren't people from other areas, but locals. Seemed that they thought "speed limits don't apply to locals, because they know the local roads/conditions" Steve30d

9:31am Tue 5 Feb 13

johnhem says...

radiobantam1 wrote:
Multiple chicanes and / or reducing the road to one lane at points and having give way coming up / down the road alternately will work better, and get rid of the car wrecking humps.
my cousin has those measures on his road in taunton. he said that twoccers just steal a car and have races through the new and exciting racetrack making it even more dangerous.
[quote][p][bold]radiobantam1[/bold] wrote: Multiple chicanes and / or reducing the road to one lane at points and having give way coming up / down the road alternately will work better, and get rid of the car wrecking humps.[/p][/quote]my cousin has those measures on his road in taunton. he said that twoccers just steal a car and have races through the new and exciting racetrack making it even more dangerous. johnhem

9:42am Tue 5 Feb 13

Steve30d says...

From an engineering perspective, has anything happened re "custard filled speed bumps"? Custard is a non-newtonian fluid, and has the rather strange property of flowing less the harder it it hit. Take a larger of form of Percy Shaw's Cats eyes(fairly local invention as it happens) fill the box into which the top gets depressed with custard and set the device in the middle of the road. That should result in a speed bump that would only be agressive for speeding vehicles. As heavier vehicles exert more force when going over a speed bump the agression will be proportional to the weight of the vehicle.
From an engineering perspective, has anything happened re "custard filled speed bumps"? Custard is a non-newtonian fluid, and has the rather strange property of flowing less the harder it it hit. Take a larger of form of Percy Shaw's Cats eyes(fairly local invention as it happens) fill the box into which the top gets depressed with custard and set the device in the middle of the road. That should result in a speed bump that would only be agressive for speeding vehicles. As heavier vehicles exert more force when going over a speed bump the agression will be proportional to the weight of the vehicle. Steve30d

10:20am Tue 5 Feb 13

fish'n'chips says...

Speed bumps are not the answer. All they do is ruin your car i have a Volvo Estate and i will be on my second set of bushes on front suspension and a front spring in 4 years due to the speed bumps on Wrose road and surrounding areas. speed bumps punish everyone because of the few who want to speed. The roads are in a bad enough state with pot holes and uneven surfaces we don't need anymore or i WILL have to buy a 4x4 next as i can't afford to keep having my car repaired. I pay road and petrol tax to be on the road perhaps the government should not steal all that money to pay the debts off and use it for roads like it should be.
Speed bumps are not the answer. All they do is ruin your car i have a Volvo Estate and i will be on my second set of bushes on front suspension and a front spring in 4 years due to the speed bumps on Wrose road and surrounding areas. speed bumps punish everyone because of the few who want to speed. The roads are in a bad enough state with pot holes and uneven surfaces we don't need anymore or i WILL have to buy a 4x4 next as i can't afford to keep having my car repaired. I pay road and petrol tax to be on the road perhaps the government should not steal all that money to pay the debts off and use it for roads like it should be. fish'n'chips

10:25am Tue 5 Feb 13

webess says...

Steve30d wrote:
From an engineering perspective, has anything happened re "custard filled speed bumps"? Custard is a non-newtonian fluid, and has the rather strange property of flowing less the harder it it hit. Take a larger of form of Percy Shaw's Cats eyes(fairly local invention as it happens) fill the box into which the top gets depressed with custard and set the device in the middle of the road. That should result in a speed bump that would only be agressive for speeding vehicles. As heavier vehicles exert more force when going over a speed bump the agression will be proportional to the weight of the vehicle.
Did you read that in Viz?
[quote][p][bold]Steve30d[/bold] wrote: From an engineering perspective, has anything happened re "custard filled speed bumps"? Custard is a non-newtonian fluid, and has the rather strange property of flowing less the harder it it hit. Take a larger of form of Percy Shaw's Cats eyes(fairly local invention as it happens) fill the box into which the top gets depressed with custard and set the device in the middle of the road. That should result in a speed bump that would only be agressive for speeding vehicles. As heavier vehicles exert more force when going over a speed bump the agression will be proportional to the weight of the vehicle.[/p][/quote]Did you read that in Viz? webess

10:33am Tue 5 Feb 13

loftyme says...

So does Mr Jarvis live in Gilstead as reported in paragraph 2 or Eldwick as reported in paragraph 4, brilliant reporting as usual!.
So does Mr Jarvis live in Gilstead as reported in paragraph 2 or Eldwick as reported in paragraph 4, brilliant reporting as usual!. loftyme

10:39am Tue 5 Feb 13

U8MyRabbit says...

Have you seen all the mud tracks left over the parks, grass verges and roundabouts by reckless 4 x 4 drivers ?

I hope someone is doing something about them !
Have you seen all the mud tracks left over the parks, grass verges and roundabouts by reckless 4 x 4 drivers ? I hope someone is doing something about them ! U8MyRabbit

11:09am Tue 5 Feb 13

cockadoodledo says...

wobbly bob says that the Police do nto recognise 20mph speed limits. If he is right and the article indicates that the Police will NOT enforce these 20mph limits what is the point in our Council wasting all this tax payers money in various parts of the district putting in speed bumps that just wreck people cars, as they are going to speed anyway. If the Police will not enforce 20mph zones why have they been seen with radar guns in Bingley
main Street ?
wobbly bob says that the Police do nto recognise 20mph speed limits. If he is right and the article indicates that the Police will NOT enforce these 20mph limits what is the point in our Council wasting all this tax payers money in various parts of the district putting in speed bumps that just wreck people cars, as they are going to speed anyway. If the Police will not enforce 20mph zones why have they been seen with radar guns in Bingley main Street ? cockadoodledo

12:37pm Tue 5 Feb 13

webess says...

cockadoodledo wrote:
wobbly bob says that the Police do nto recognise 20mph speed limits. If he is right and the article indicates that the Police will NOT enforce these 20mph limits what is the point in our Council wasting all this tax payers money in various parts of the district putting in speed bumps that just wreck people cars, as they are going to speed anyway. If the Police will not enforce 20mph zones why have they been seen with radar guns in Bingley
main Street ?
Because the 20mph limit doesn't exist in law...
[quote][p][bold]cockadoodledo[/bold] wrote: wobbly bob says that the Police do nto recognise 20mph speed limits. If he is right and the article indicates that the Police will NOT enforce these 20mph limits what is the point in our Council wasting all this tax payers money in various parts of the district putting in speed bumps that just wreck people cars, as they are going to speed anyway. If the Police will not enforce 20mph zones why have they been seen with radar guns in Bingley main Street ?[/p][/quote]Because the 20mph limit doesn't exist in law... webess

3:02pm Tue 5 Feb 13

webess says...

webess wrote:
cockadoodledo wrote:
wobbly bob says that the Police do nto recognise 20mph speed limits. If he is right and the article indicates that the Police will NOT enforce these 20mph limits what is the point in our Council wasting all this tax payers money in various parts of the district putting in speed bumps that just wreck people cars, as they are going to speed anyway. If the Police will not enforce 20mph zones why have they been seen with radar guns in Bingley
main Street ?
Because the 20mph limit doesn't exist in law...
Correction - it does now. But the fact remains speed humps are yet another failure from Bradford Highways.

And nobody's mentioned the increased response time for emergency services..
[quote][p][bold]webess[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cockadoodledo[/bold] wrote: wobbly bob says that the Police do nto recognise 20mph speed limits. If he is right and the article indicates that the Police will NOT enforce these 20mph limits what is the point in our Council wasting all this tax payers money in various parts of the district putting in speed bumps that just wreck people cars, as they are going to speed anyway. If the Police will not enforce 20mph zones why have they been seen with radar guns in Bingley main Street ?[/p][/quote]Because the 20mph limit doesn't exist in law...[/p][/quote]Correction - it does now. But the fact remains speed humps are yet another failure from Bradford Highways. And nobody's mentioned the increased response time for emergency services.. webess

8:08pm Tue 5 Feb 13

wobbley-bob says...

webess wrote:
webess wrote:
cockadoodledo wrote:
wobbly bob says that the Police do nto recognise 20mph speed limits. If he is right and the article indicates that the Police will NOT enforce these 20mph limits what is the point in our Council wasting all this tax payers money in various parts of the district putting in speed bumps that just wreck people cars, as they are going to speed anyway. If the Police will not enforce 20mph zones why have they been seen with radar guns in Bingley
main Street ?
Because the 20mph limit doesn't exist in law...
Correction - it does now. But the fact remains speed humps are yet another failure from Bradford Highways.

And nobody's mentioned the increased response time for emergency services..
"Correction - it does now."

Yes It does exist as an advisory limit, but how can you be prosecuted when as a practical issue it's made somewhat problematic by the fact that EU type approval regs. don't impose any accuracy requirements at all on car speedometers below 40 kph (about 25 mph).

Also a condition of the Gatso's type approval is that it's only used to enforce speed limits of 30mph or greater.
[quote][p][bold]webess[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]webess[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cockadoodledo[/bold] wrote: wobbly bob says that the Police do nto recognise 20mph speed limits. If he is right and the article indicates that the Police will NOT enforce these 20mph limits what is the point in our Council wasting all this tax payers money in various parts of the district putting in speed bumps that just wreck people cars, as they are going to speed anyway. If the Police will not enforce 20mph zones why have they been seen with radar guns in Bingley main Street ?[/p][/quote]Because the 20mph limit doesn't exist in law...[/p][/quote]Correction - it does now. But the fact remains speed humps are yet another failure from Bradford Highways. And nobody's mentioned the increased response time for emergency services..[/p][/quote]"Correction - it does now." Yes It does exist as an advisory limit, but how can you be prosecuted when as a practical issue it's made somewhat problematic by the fact that EU type approval regs. don't impose any accuracy requirements at all on car speedometers below 40 kph (about 25 mph). Also a condition of the Gatso's type approval is that it's only used to enforce speed limits of 30mph or greater. wobbley-bob

9:00pm Tue 5 Feb 13

Steve30d says...

webess wrote:
Steve30d wrote:
From an engineering perspective, has anything happened re "custard filled speed bumps"? Custard is a non-newtonian fluid, and has the rather strange property of flowing less the harder it it hit. Take a larger of form of Percy Shaw's Cats eyes(fairly local invention as it happens) fill the box into which the top gets depressed with custard and set the device in the middle of the road. That should result in a speed bump that would only be agressive for speeding vehicles. As heavier vehicles exert more force when going over a speed bump the agression will be proportional to the weight of the vehicle.
Did you read that in Viz?
no. germ of the idea is from halfbakery (web site) about 12 years ago.

There's now flexiable body armour for skiers, and similar to help avoid OAPs breaking bones on falls using new materials which share custard's dilatent (or shear thickening) properties, but which don't go mouldy.
As I said previously such fluids flow quite easily when pushed gently and are as hard as concrete when thumped hard. In practise used as a speed bump there'd be no speed bump whatsoever for people travelling at low speed, but a really bad speed bump for those travelling fast.
[quote][p][bold]webess[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Steve30d[/bold] wrote: From an engineering perspective, has anything happened re "custard filled speed bumps"? Custard is a non-newtonian fluid, and has the rather strange property of flowing less the harder it it hit. Take a larger of form of Percy Shaw's Cats eyes(fairly local invention as it happens) fill the box into which the top gets depressed with custard and set the device in the middle of the road. That should result in a speed bump that would only be agressive for speeding vehicles. As heavier vehicles exert more force when going over a speed bump the agression will be proportional to the weight of the vehicle.[/p][/quote]Did you read that in Viz?[/p][/quote]no. germ of the idea is from halfbakery (web site) about 12 years ago. There's now flexiable body armour for skiers, and similar to help avoid OAPs breaking bones on falls using new materials which share custard's dilatent (or shear thickening) properties, but which don't go mouldy. As I said previously such fluids flow quite easily when pushed gently and are as hard as concrete when thumped hard. In practise used as a speed bump there'd be no speed bump whatsoever for people travelling at low speed, but a really bad speed bump for those travelling fast. Steve30d

12:15am Wed 6 Feb 13

36a says...

Its about time we had someone walking infront of every car with a red flag. Now that would be progress
.
.
.
As a sports car driver, I am heartedly sick of these road humps which effectively ban me from using some public roads
.
.
.
And 20 zones are really important at 10 oclock at night, or when the schools are on holiday when there is no one else on the road
Its about time we had someone walking infront of every car with a red flag. Now that would be progress . . . As a sports car driver, I am heartedly sick of these road humps which effectively ban me from using some public roads . . . And 20 zones are really important at 10 oclock at night, or when the schools are on holiday when there is no one else on the road 36a

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