George and Dragon pub in Bradford set to close as licensees retire (From Bradford Telegraph and Argus)

brewery's dont care, make money from cans, etc.
disgraceful this city, no pubs left soon.
no chance of a pub crawl these days!!

No restrictions for future use = Yet another curry house, mobile phone shop or cloth house.

Meanwhile over in Baildon...Work is starting today on a £300,000 facelift for two Baildon pubs which will create up to 20 new jobs!

The impact of the loss of these community pubs can't be overstated. Are the elderly patrons expected to travel elsewhere to get some level of social inclusion? If they have been drinking in the same pub for a number of years are they likely to journey out to find another pub in the hope that it wont be full of rowdy youths and that there may be someone they know so as they can have a chat when they get there? I fear many will just stay at home and become increasingly isolated. If George Osborne stopped taking a third of your pint in tax these pubs may stand a chance. See you down at the Speakeasy

Pubs are like any other business run for profit if there is not enough profit they will close simple economics.

Avro wrote:
Meanwhile over in Baildon...Work is starting today on a £300,000 facelift for two Baildon pubs which will create up to 20 new jobs!

The two pubs in question have been managing to sell beer at a pound a pint cheaper than other pubs in the surrounding area thus getting plenty of customers through the door. Other pubs are trying to squeeze as much profit as they can from an ever decreasing clientele. The customers will try and help keep the doors open but they can only pay so much before being forced to move on.

You mean move on to boozing at home as its ridiculously cheap in comparison..

Bingley's "Old Library & Berlin Nightclub" have closed over the weekend due to refurb work taking place.

I believe in the region of £1million pound is being spent of the works.

Also work has started on "The Queens" by the looks of things this coming weekend.

Funny how Wetherspoons have managed to open hundreds of pubs in the last few years, while other chains have all but disappeared.

".. but we have been unable to find the right publican who can share our vision and take the site forward as a pub business."

You've got to admire Enterprise's gall. The only vision they've got is vast profits from the strictly controlled beer list they force on tenants, usually over-priced and over-rated. Then if by any chance the tenant starts making a go of the business they hit them with massive rent increases with no appeal possible. The number of tenants ruined by Enterprise and their like is scandalous. The sooner the government cut beer duty and sort out the pubco extortion racket the better.

Albion. wrote:
Funny how Wetherspoons have managed to open hundreds of pubs in the last few years, while other chains have all but disappeared.

Thats because of Wetherspoons business model. They only buy "end of line" beer and products from Brewerys and distributors because they know for example they can buy 5000 barrels of beer that will go out of date in a month and manage to shift all the 5000 across their chains whereas other pubs simply cannot keep up. Because of them buying effectively a product which would otherwise be wasted they get it cheap and can therefore sell cheap but the customer is getting basically rubbish.

This is why Wetherspoons if the pub of choice for some elements of society. Same alcohol level but cr4p products. The same goes for their food they sell. Because of their buying power they can sell cr4p food at a cheap price.

Other pubs cant keep up really due to them operating this process

Andy2010 wrote:

Albion. wrote:
Funny how Wetherspoons have managed to open hundreds of pubs in the last few years, while other chains have all but disappeared.

Thats because of Wetherspoons business model. They only buy "end of line" beer and products from Brewerys and distributors because they know for example they can buy 5000 barrels of beer that will go out of date in a month and manage to shift all the 5000 across their chains whereas other pubs simply cannot keep up. Because of them buying effectively a product which would otherwise be wasted they get it cheap and can therefore sell cheap but the customer is getting basically rubbish.

This is why Wetherspoons if the pub of choice for some elements of society. Same alcohol level but cr4p products. The same goes for their food they sell. Because of their buying power they can sell cr4p food at a cheap price.

Other pubs cant keep up really due to them operating this process

"This is why Wetherspoons if the pub of choice for some elements of society. "

They do have some nice pubs in nice areas as well.

Albion. wrote:

Andy2010 wrote:

Albion. wrote:
Funny how Wetherspoons have managed to open hundreds of pubs in the last few years, while other chains have all but disappeared.

Thats because of Wetherspoons business model. They only buy "end of line" beer and products from Brewerys and distributors because they know for example they can buy 5000 barrels of beer that will go out of date in a month and manage to shift all the 5000 across their chains whereas other pubs simply cannot keep up. Because of them buying effectively a product which would otherwise be wasted they get it cheap and can therefore sell cheap but the customer is getting basically rubbish.

This is why Wetherspoons if the pub of choice for some elements of society. Same alcohol level but cr4p products. The same goes for their food they sell. Because of their buying power they can sell cr4p food at a cheap price.

Other pubs cant keep up really due to them operating this process

"This is why Wetherspoons if the pub of choice for some elements of society. "

They do have some nice pubs in nice areas as well.

Some.... yes they do

MontyLeMar wrote:
".. but we have been unable to find the right publican who can share our vision and take the site forward as a pub business."

You've got to admire Enterprise's gall. The only vision they've got is vast profits from the strictly controlled beer list they force on tenants, usually over-priced and over-rated. Then if by any chance the tenant starts making a go of the business they hit them with massive rent increases with no appeal possible. The number of tenants ruined by Enterprise and their like is scandalous. The sooner the government cut beer duty and sort out the pubco extortion racket the better.

Spot on Monty - increases in rent due to tenants making a go of it have driven out 2 tenants from my local in the past 3 years!

bantam69 wrote:

MontyLeMar wrote:
".. but we have been unable to find the right publican who can share our vision and take the site forward as a pub business."

You've got to admire Enterprise's gall. The only vision they've got is vast profits from the strictly controlled beer list they force on tenants, usually over-priced and over-rated. Then if by any chance the tenant starts making a go of the business they hit them with massive rent increases with no appeal possible. The number of tenants ruined by Enterprise and their like is scandalous. The sooner the government cut beer duty and sort out the pubco extortion racket the better.

Spot on Monty - increases in rent due to tenants making a go of it have driven out 2 tenants from my local in the past 3 years!

Im sorry but these tenants know what they are signing up for when they do. The terms of the lease laid down by Enterprise, Punch or whoever else are black and white. And to say these Breweries make vast amounts of money is delusional.

Enterprise for example along with Marstons, Punch etc etc are losing money hand over foot and just trying to claw some of this back. End of the day they are their pubs and they are looking to make as much money from their properties as would any commercial enterprise. Isnt that normal?

From the article:

"One of the regulars, Pamela Bishop, of nearby Dracup Road, said: “This is a prime example of how our way of life is being eroded.."

---

What is she on about?! - she's blaming lack of business on how her 'life is being eroded'??

Jeez!

The Hoffster wrote:
From the article:

"One of the regulars, Pamela Bishop, of nearby Dracup Road, said: “This is a prime example of how our way of life is being eroded.."

---

What is she on about?! - she's blaming lack of business on how her 'life is being eroded'??

Jeez!

I should imagine that she refers to the social and community aspect of this.

Albion. wrote:

The Hoffster wrote:
From the article:

"One of the regulars, Pamela Bishop, of nearby Dracup Road, said: “This is a prime example of how our way of life is being eroded.."

---

What is she on about?! - she's blaming lack of business on how her 'life is being eroded'??

Jeez!

I should imagine that she refers to the social and community aspect of this.

I can understand the sentiment some people have to pubs being a social aspect but community especially in Bradford died years ago. Most now keep themselves to themselves for whatever reasons.

Rather than those blaming breweries the real culprits here are the last Labour government who firstly introduced the smoking ban, let the supermarkets run riot and then run disposable income into the ground. Thats what caused the death of most pubs

Andy2010 wrote:

bantam69 wrote:

MontyLeMar wrote:
".. but we have been unable to find the right publican who can share our vision and take the site forward as a pub business."

You've got to admire Enterprise's gall. The only vision they've got is vast profits from the strictly controlled beer list they force on tenants, usually over-priced and over-rated. Then if by any chance the tenant starts making a go of the business they hit them with massive rent increases with no appeal possible. The number of tenants ruined by Enterprise and their like is scandalous. The sooner the government cut beer duty and sort out the pubco extortion racket the better.

Spot on Monty - increases in rent due to tenants making a go of it have driven out 2 tenants from my local in the past 3 years!

Im sorry but these tenants know what they are signing up for when they do. The terms of the lease laid down by Enterprise, Punch or whoever else are black and white. And to say these Breweries make vast amounts of money is delusional.

Enterprise for example along with Marstons, Punch etc etc are losing money hand over foot and just trying to claw some of this back. End of the day they are their pubs and they are looking to make as much money from their properties as would any commercial enterprise. Isnt that normal?

I agree that it is a matter of 'buyer beware' when signing a contract between yourself and the Pubco and you've only got yourself to blame if it all goes wrong because you should have taken independent advice. I also think the Pubcos are now running out of mugs who will take on their pubs which is why they are having to shut them down and sell them off. It's also upsetting when you hear tales like the landlord at the White Horse in Bingley having his rent doubled to £40k per year, which prompted him to clear out, only to find that Enterprise can advertise the pub on their website at a rent of £18k two weeks later. What's that all about? It's legalised extortion and the tenant has no right of appeal. It just looks to me like Enterprise are setting the bait so they can reel in yet another mug, take his/her money then force them out with large rent increases. I realise that the Pubco business model is doomed, most of them have big, big debt mountains and their pubs are producing less and less profit, but it doesn't excuse unfair treatment of tenants. Anyone who takes on a lease from these Pubcos now needs their head examining or cast iron guarantees and independent advice.

This country really needs to sort its self out!

Where I agree that something needs to be done about 'Drunk Britain' I also think it would be worth considering LOWERING the tax on alcohol served at the pump (for drinking in the establishment) while increasing the amount of tax on alcohol sold in supermarkets and shops.

This will surely mean more people going on nights out, spending money locally, using local services such as taxis, restaurants and take away's. As these service are being used more, the people working in them will be making more money and are more likely to spend more.

Alcohol - Serving and Saving the Nation!

You would have to reduce drinks an awful lot to pay for all that .Peoples priorities change and going to the pub is out of fashion.

Bradford born and bread wrote:
This country really needs to sort its self out!

Where I agree that something needs to be done about 'Drunk Britain' I also think it would be worth considering LOWERING the tax on alcohol served at the pump (for drinking in the establishment) while increasing the amount of tax on alcohol sold in supermarkets and shops.

This will surely mean more people going on nights out, spending money locally, using local services such as taxis, restaurants and take away's. As these service are being used more, the people working in them will be making more money and are more likely to spend more.

Alcohol - Serving and Saving the Nation!

Think it through

Lowering the tax at the pump loses the Government money. Also by your assumption people will be drinking more thus increasing the burden on the NHS which in turn leads to absence from work which in turn leads to loss of further tax. People using taxi's cuts out fuel tax and also if pubs had more money the restaurent trade would lower as it was before meaning less people employed etc etc etc.

Its all swings and roundabouts.

Whilst I agree any tax cut on anything Id welcome the bigger picture shows why it isnt such a good idea especially in current climate. I think the key here is what you described and taxing the supermarkets to lose some of their revenue which could be given back to the pub industry but then again why upset a business (supermarkets) that contribute in taxation on their profits and otherwise about 15% of all income into the UK....that would stupid wouldnt it?

Andy2010 wrote:

Bradford born and bread wrote:
This country really needs to sort its self out!

Where I agree that something needs to be done about 'Drunk Britain' I also think it would be worth considering LOWERING the tax on alcohol served at the pump (for drinking in the establishment) while increasing the amount of tax on alcohol sold in supermarkets and shops.

This will surely mean more people going on nights out, spending money locally, using local services such as taxis, restaurants and take away's. As these service are being used more, the people working in them will be making more money and are more likely to spend more.

Alcohol - Serving and Saving the Nation!

Think it through

Lowering the tax at the pump loses the Government money. Also by your assumption people will be drinking more thus increasing the burden on the NHS which in turn leads to absence from work which in turn leads to loss of further tax. People using taxi's cuts out fuel tax and also if pubs had more money the restaurent trade would lower as it was before meaning less people employed etc etc etc.

Its all swings and roundabouts.

Whilst I agree any tax cut on anything Id welcome the bigger picture shows why it isnt such a good idea especially in current climate. I think the key here is what you described and taxing the supermarkets to lose some of their revenue which could be given back to the pub industry but then again why upset a business (supermarkets) that contribute in taxation on their profits and otherwise about 15% of all income into the UK....that would stupid wouldnt it?

The term "biting off the hands that feeds you" applies here

Same goes for the banks

Such a shame this is one of the best pubs around that area and the only one to show football matches. There prices are average with other pubs in the area but they do great food and its cheap as chips, but more importantly they offer a warm friendly atmosphere and is trouble free compared to pubs further down the road (not mentioning any names) Good luck Gerry and june you will both me missed.

Andy2010 wrote:

Bradford born and bread wrote:
This country really needs to sort its self out!

Where I agree that something needs to be done about 'Drunk Britain' I also think it would be worth considering LOWERING the tax on alcohol served at the pump (for drinking in the establishment) while increasing the amount of tax on alcohol sold in supermarkets and shops.

This will surely mean more people going on nights out, spending money locally, using local services such as taxis, restaurants and take away's. As these service are being used more, the people working in them will be making more money and are more likely to spend more.

Alcohol - Serving and Saving the Nation!

Think it through

Lowering the tax at the pump loses the Government money. Also by your assumption people will be drinking more thus increasing the burden on the NHS which in turn leads to absence from work which in turn leads to loss of further tax. People using taxi's cuts out fuel tax and also if pubs had more money the restaurent trade would lower as it was before meaning less people employed etc etc etc.

Its all swings and roundabouts.

Whilst I agree any tax cut on anything Id welcome the bigger picture shows why it isnt such a good idea especially in current climate. I think the key here is what you described and taxing the supermarkets to lose some of their revenue which could be given back to the pub industry but then again why upset a business (supermarkets) that contribute in taxation on their profits and otherwise about 15% of all income into the UK....that would stupid wouldnt it?

Apologies, I was mid rant and lost my train of thought.

My point was aimed at getting more people out to the local watering hole rather than drinking at home.

As long as it is done properly i.e. not serving someone that inebriated it can only be a good thing can't it?

I'm only 30 years old but I can remember going down to the local with my family on a Sunday afternoon and having a really good time... Some of the best memories.

The real problem with youth today is drugs. They are too prolific in nightclubs etc.

Maybe, to help local pubs, Nightclubs should not open until later (10/11pm)?

That will have it's own ramifications though.