More than 92,000 fines sent out to drivers for misusing bus lanes by Bradford Council

First published in News Bradford Telegraph and Argus: Photograph of the Author Exclusive by , T&A Reporter

New figures show that Bradford Council has received £2.3 million in paid fines over two and a half years since switching on cameras to catch motorists who misuse bus lanes.

The data, released to the Telegraph & Argus under Freedom of Information rules, shows that from April, 2010, a total of 92,923 fines have been sent out. This equates to 700 fines and £17,000 in income a week to the authority.

Cameras at 11 key locations across the district continue to catch out drivers who flout the rules which allow buses, hackney cabs and cycles to use the lanes in a bid to cut traffic congestion.

Some bus lanes, such as those on the A650 Manningham Lane, operate during rush hour, while others, such as those on Market Street in the city centre, operate permanently.

In the first year of operation, when cameras were installed at five locations in the city centre and Shipley’s Market Square, a total of 44,577 fines amounting to £1,084,047.13 were handed out. Then in 2011/12 this dropped to 32,125 fines amounting to £867,253.39.

However cameras were then installed on the A650 Bingley Road and Manningham Lane, Bow Street in Keighley, and Thornton Road. The figures from April this year are 16,219 penalty charges amounting to £337,171.61 in revenue.

The Council has confirmed that switching on the enforcement cameras has led to a 90 per cent drop in motorists flouting the rules.

Councillor Andrew Thornton, the Council’s executive member for environment, sport and sustainability, said: “The purpose of bus lane enforcement cameras is to ensure that motorists comply with the rules which helps to keep traffic flowing more efficiently and reduces congestion.

“Keeping the bus lane clear makes for a more efficient transport system, is better for all travellers and causes less harm to the environment.”

Meanwhile Afsar Khan, manager of Tyersal Taxis, said he was still campaigning for private hire and hackney carriage drivers to be treated equally when it comes to bus lane usage. At the moment hackney cabs can use bus lanes, along with cyclists, but private hire vehicles cannot.

Other cities already allowed private hire cabs in the lanes, but in Bradford drivers are criticised by passengers who do not understand why they cannot take a particular city centre route.

“People don’t understand why we are not using the bus lanes, especially at night.

“Our drivers try to avoid them as much as they can, but with the CCTV cameras, they would always be caught, even if they only go into the lane for a short period by mistake and come straight out again.”

CCTV footage is reviewed daily and penalty charge notices issued by post if offences are spotted. The fine is £60, reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days. The money generated is used to offset the cost of the service with the remainder spent on highways and transport.

When the system was first introduced in 2010, along with new bus lane restrictions in Market Street and Bridge Street in the centre of Bradford, hundreds of fines were written off following complaints from motorists who had accumulated numerous fines. A new appeals process was introduced.

Comments (87)

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7:10am Wed 5 Dec 12

Walruss says...

I just wish that those sheep who cannot read or tell the time will one day realise that when the bus lane on Manningham Lane is "out of hours", then it is OK to drive in it.
I just wish that those sheep who cannot read or tell the time will one day realise that when the bus lane on Manningham Lane is "out of hours", then it is OK to drive in it. Walruss
  • Score: 0

7:29am Wed 5 Dec 12

angry bradfordian says...

I would be interesting to see what percentage of fines were actually paid.

I don't understand the logic of any type of taxis using bus lanes. How is it any better for congestion than using your own car?
I would be interesting to see what percentage of fines were actually paid. I don't understand the logic of any type of taxis using bus lanes. How is it any better for congestion than using your own car? angry bradfordian
  • Score: 0

7:56am Wed 5 Dec 12

June Oh says...

angry bradfordian wrote:
I would be interesting to see what percentage of fines were actually paid.

I don't understand the logic of any type of taxis using bus lanes. How is it any better for congestion than using your own car?
Yes that is a good question how much was not collected in please?
[quote][p][bold]angry bradfordian[/bold] wrote: I would be interesting to see what percentage of fines were actually paid. I don't understand the logic of any type of taxis using bus lanes. How is it any better for congestion than using your own car?[/p][/quote]Yes that is a good question how much was not collected in please? June Oh
  • Score: 0

8:05am Wed 5 Dec 12

Bornagain2him says...

I still see several cars an hour driving through Shipley centre, which has been buses only for several years. You have to be totally blind (in which case you shouldnt be driving)not too see the very prominent signs and road markings. I have no sympathy what so ever, with people who flaunt the rules. Its just a shame that the revenue raised is not all spent on improving the condition of our district's roads!
I still see several cars an hour driving through Shipley centre, which has been buses only for several years. You have to be totally blind (in which case you shouldnt be driving)not too see the very prominent signs and road markings. I have no sympathy what so ever, with people who flaunt the rules. Its just a shame that the revenue raised is not all spent on improving the condition of our district's roads! Bornagain2him
  • Score: 0

8:06am Wed 5 Dec 12

SinnerSaint says...

"Meanwhile Afsar Khan, manager of Tyersal Taxis, said he was still campaigning for private hire and hackney carriage drivers to be treated equally when it comes to bus lane usage. At the moment hackney cabs can use bus lanes, along with cyclists, but private hire vehicles cannot."

In some parts of the city, nearly every car is a private hire taxi. Strangely, they all seem to have disabled badges too...
"Meanwhile Afsar Khan, manager of Tyersal Taxis, said he was still campaigning for private hire and hackney carriage drivers to be treated equally when it comes to bus lane usage. At the moment hackney cabs can use bus lanes, along with cyclists, but private hire vehicles cannot." In some parts of the city, nearly every car is a private hire taxi. Strangely, they all seem to have disabled badges too... SinnerSaint
  • Score: 0

8:09am Wed 5 Dec 12

allannicho says...

They always try to "push the envelope "
those guys.
They always try to "push the envelope " those guys. allannicho
  • Score: 0

8:18am Wed 5 Dec 12

webess says...

"Councillor Andrew Thornton, the Council’s executive member for environment, sport and sustainability, said: “The purpose of bus lane enforcement cameras is to ensure that motorists comply with the rules which helps to keep traffic flowing more efficiently and reduces congestion"

Anyone actually believe that?
"Councillor Andrew Thornton, the Council’s executive member for environment, sport and sustainability, said: “The purpose of bus lane enforcement cameras is to ensure that motorists comply with the rules which helps to keep traffic flowing more efficiently and reduces congestion" Anyone actually believe that? webess
  • Score: 0

8:28am Wed 5 Dec 12

Shipleyvegas says...

Walruss wrote:
I just wish that those sheep who cannot read or tell the time will one day realise that when the bus lane on Manningham Lane is "out of hours", then it is OK to drive in it.
I got pulled by the police for driving on it when it wasn't a bus lane i.e. out of the times. I had to explain how it worked to the police officer. This kind of sums up the general ignorance to the rules of how they work...
[quote][p][bold]Walruss[/bold] wrote: I just wish that those sheep who cannot read or tell the time will one day realise that when the bus lane on Manningham Lane is "out of hours", then it is OK to drive in it.[/p][/quote]I got pulled by the police for driving on it when it wasn't a bus lane i.e. out of the times. I had to explain how it worked to the police officer. This kind of sums up the general ignorance to the rules of how they work... Shipleyvegas
  • Score: 0

8:28am Wed 5 Dec 12

bwwb says...

Meanwhile empty buses burning fuel at 4mpg rush headlong down empty bus lanes until they spot a gap in the outside lane and cause extra congestion and delay to car drivers. Yes what a wonderful invention these bus only lanes are !
Meanwhile empty buses burning fuel at 4mpg rush headlong down empty bus lanes until they spot a gap in the outside lane and cause extra congestion and delay to car drivers. Yes what a wonderful invention these bus only lanes are ! bwwb
  • Score: 0

8:33am Wed 5 Dec 12

webess says...

It's quite clear the council love the cash cow that is bus lanes and are almost certainly making more profit than the bus company.
However how much is it costing the city, particularly the centre in lost business? I know of two visitors to the city who got lost in the city centre and strayed into a bus lane (one for a couple of seconds in the early hours in the morning). Neither of them will be visiting Bradford again.
It's quite clear the council love the cash cow that is bus lanes and are almost certainly making more profit than the bus company. However how much is it costing the city, particularly the centre in lost business? I know of two visitors to the city who got lost in the city centre and strayed into a bus lane (one for a couple of seconds in the early hours in the morning). Neither of them will be visiting Bradford again. webess
  • Score: 0

8:40am Wed 5 Dec 12

undercliffebantam says...

webess wrote:
It's quite clear the council love the cash cow that is bus lanes and are almost certainly making more profit than the bus company.
However how much is it costing the city, particularly the centre in lost business? I know of two visitors to the city who got lost in the city centre and strayed into a bus lane (one for a couple of seconds in the early hours in the morning). Neither of them will be visiting Bradford again.
Good, we don't want lawbreakers in Bradford.
[quote][p][bold]webess[/bold] wrote: It's quite clear the council love the cash cow that is bus lanes and are almost certainly making more profit than the bus company. However how much is it costing the city, particularly the centre in lost business? I know of two visitors to the city who got lost in the city centre and strayed into a bus lane (one for a couple of seconds in the early hours in the morning). Neither of them will be visiting Bradford again.[/p][/quote]Good, we don't want lawbreakers in Bradford. undercliffebantam
  • Score: 0

8:41am Wed 5 Dec 12

Clowny says...

webess wrote:
It's quite clear the council love the cash cow that is bus lanes and are almost certainly making more profit than the bus company.
However how much is it costing the city, particularly the centre in lost business? I know of two visitors to the city who got lost in the city centre and strayed into a bus lane (one for a couple of seconds in the early hours in the morning). Neither of them will be visiting Bradford again.
I agree, the route around the city centre isn't that clear and the cost to the economy in lost visitors won't even try and be determined.
[quote][p][bold]webess[/bold] wrote: It's quite clear the council love the cash cow that is bus lanes and are almost certainly making more profit than the bus company. However how much is it costing the city, particularly the centre in lost business? I know of two visitors to the city who got lost in the city centre and strayed into a bus lane (one for a couple of seconds in the early hours in the morning). Neither of them will be visiting Bradford again.[/p][/quote]I agree, the route around the city centre isn't that clear and the cost to the economy in lost visitors won't even try and be determined. Clowny
  • Score: 0

8:43am Wed 5 Dec 12

SinnerSaint says...

webess wrote:
It's quite clear the council love the cash cow that is bus lanes and are almost certainly making more profit than the bus company.
However how much is it costing the city, particularly the centre in lost business? I know of two visitors to the city who got lost in the city centre and strayed into a bus lane (one for a couple of seconds in the early hours in the morning). Neither of them will be visiting Bradford again.
By the sounds of it, they'll be lucky if they find the city again.
[quote][p][bold]webess[/bold] wrote: It's quite clear the council love the cash cow that is bus lanes and are almost certainly making more profit than the bus company. However how much is it costing the city, particularly the centre in lost business? I know of two visitors to the city who got lost in the city centre and strayed into a bus lane (one for a couple of seconds in the early hours in the morning). Neither of them will be visiting Bradford again.[/p][/quote]By the sounds of it, they'll be lucky if they find the city again. SinnerSaint
  • Score: 0

8:44am Wed 5 Dec 12

angry bradfordian says...

webess wrote:
It's quite clear the council love the cash cow that is bus lanes and are almost certainly making more profit than the bus company.
However how much is it costing the city, particularly the centre in lost business? I know of two visitors to the city who got lost in the city centre and strayed into a bus lane (one for a couple of seconds in the early hours in the morning). Neither of them will be visiting Bradford again.
The bus lane seems to work in almost every other city I've travelled through and mean that using the bus is much easier than car travel in to city centres. The problem here seems to be that the buses are empty; not the bus lane's fault.

I also have no sympathy for people who get caught using bus lanes. They're covered in massive signs telling you when they can be used so if somebody gets caught they're either unable to read a sign (and shouldn't be driving) or are just selfish.
[quote][p][bold]webess[/bold] wrote: It's quite clear the council love the cash cow that is bus lanes and are almost certainly making more profit than the bus company. However how much is it costing the city, particularly the centre in lost business? I know of two visitors to the city who got lost in the city centre and strayed into a bus lane (one for a couple of seconds in the early hours in the morning). Neither of them will be visiting Bradford again.[/p][/quote]The bus lane seems to work in almost every other city I've travelled through and mean that using the bus is much easier than car travel in to city centres. The problem here seems to be that the buses are empty; not the bus lane's fault. I also have no sympathy for people who get caught using bus lanes. They're covered in massive signs telling you when they can be used so if somebody gets caught they're either unable to read a sign (and shouldn't be driving) or are just selfish. angry bradfordian
  • Score: 0

8:48am Wed 5 Dec 12

mad matt says...

The route in the city centre has not been planned or properly thought out.
As far as Manningham Lane is concerned, my own thoughts are if they can't read or understand english then they shouldn't even be driving in this country.
The route in the city centre has not been planned or properly thought out. As far as Manningham Lane is concerned, my own thoughts are if they can't read or understand english then they shouldn't even be driving in this country. mad matt
  • Score: 0

9:09am Wed 5 Dec 12

emu999 says...

The owner of tyersal taxis states, his drivers go into bus lanes for a short period of time by mistake.Might i say if they do they shouldn`t be driving taxis then.
The owner of tyersal taxis states, his drivers go into bus lanes for a short period of time by mistake.Might i say if they do they shouldn`t be driving taxis then. emu999
  • Score: 0

9:14am Wed 5 Dec 12

there's nowt as queer as folk... says...

Bradford is dead. Killed by the Council, and its short sighted policies. Go to Leeds where the shops are open, the bus lanes are few, the drunks are locked up, and you won't be shot.
Bradford is dead. Killed by the Council, and its short sighted policies. Go to Leeds where the shops are open, the bus lanes are few, the drunks are locked up, and you won't be shot. there's nowt as queer as folk...
  • Score: 0

9:31am Wed 5 Dec 12

angry bradfordian says...

there's nowt as queer as folk... wrote:
Bradford is dead. Killed by the Council, and its short sighted policies. Go to Leeds where the shops are open, the bus lanes are few, the drunks are locked up, and you won't be shot.
Is this the same Leeds I travel to and see bus lanes all over the place? There are 4km on Kirkstall Lane alone!

Doesn't seem to be doing their economy any harm.
[quote][p][bold]there's nowt as queer as folk...[/bold] wrote: Bradford is dead. Killed by the Council, and its short sighted policies. Go to Leeds where the shops are open, the bus lanes are few, the drunks are locked up, and you won't be shot.[/p][/quote]Is this the same Leeds I travel to and see bus lanes all over the place? There are 4km on Kirkstall Lane alone! Doesn't seem to be doing their economy any harm. angry bradfordian
  • Score: 0

9:35am Wed 5 Dec 12

webess says...

angry bradfordian wrote:
webess wrote:
It's quite clear the council love the cash cow that is bus lanes and are almost certainly making more profit than the bus company.
However how much is it costing the city, particularly the centre in lost business? I know of two visitors to the city who got lost in the city centre and strayed into a bus lane (one for a couple of seconds in the early hours in the morning). Neither of them will be visiting Bradford again.
The bus lane seems to work in almost every other city I've travelled through and mean that using the bus is much easier than car travel in to city centres. The problem here seems to be that the buses are empty; not the bus lane's fault.

I also have no sympathy for people who get caught using bus lanes. They're covered in massive signs telling you when they can be used so if somebody gets caught they're either unable to read a sign (and shouldn't be driving) or are just selfish.
Don't worry, plenty of smug drivers like you get caught out too....
[quote][p][bold]angry bradfordian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]webess[/bold] wrote: It's quite clear the council love the cash cow that is bus lanes and are almost certainly making more profit than the bus company. However how much is it costing the city, particularly the centre in lost business? I know of two visitors to the city who got lost in the city centre and strayed into a bus lane (one for a couple of seconds in the early hours in the morning). Neither of them will be visiting Bradford again.[/p][/quote]The bus lane seems to work in almost every other city I've travelled through and mean that using the bus is much easier than car travel in to city centres. The problem here seems to be that the buses are empty; not the bus lane's fault. I also have no sympathy for people who get caught using bus lanes. They're covered in massive signs telling you when they can be used so if somebody gets caught they're either unable to read a sign (and shouldn't be driving) or are just selfish.[/p][/quote]Don't worry, plenty of smug drivers like you get caught out too.... webess
  • Score: 0

9:37am Wed 5 Dec 12

Old Dave says...

Leeds has many more bus lanes than Bradford and pioneered the 2+ lane that Bradfordf has since adopted.

The problem in Bradford isnt the bus lanes, it is the lack of quality shops, brought about by the lack of quality people to frequent them, which in many cases is brought about by the lawles-sness of some people in Bradford, and the many apologists for them.

I drive along Manningham Lane at least twice daily, and up Thornton Road, almost as much. The bus lanes a clearly marked and signposted. In the City Centre, big no entry signs are in place to tell people not to enter areas.

If people understand the highway code and its signs, and then abide by the rules, there are no problems.

So the council is collecting fines from people who disregard the rules of the road. Good on them. This is one smaqll thing they are doing right!
Leeds has many more bus lanes than Bradford and pioneered the 2+ lane that Bradfordf has since adopted. The problem in Bradford isnt the bus lanes, it is the lack of quality shops, brought about by the lack of quality people to frequent them, which in many cases is brought about by the lawles-sness of some people in Bradford, and the many apologists for them. I drive along Manningham Lane at least twice daily, and up Thornton Road, almost as much. The bus lanes a clearly marked and signposted. In the City Centre, big no entry signs are in place to tell people not to enter areas. If people understand the highway code and its signs, and then abide by the rules, there are no problems. So the council is collecting fines from people who disregard the rules of the road. Good on them. This is one smaqll thing they are doing right! Old Dave
  • Score: 0

9:42am Wed 5 Dec 12

citizen smith says...

Can the T&A please clarify and confirm that "Bradford Council has received £2.3 million in paid fines" means that the fines handed out have actually been paid. Have they really received £2.3m as stated in the attention-grabbing headline para, or is that the total of fines issued as detailed later in the story?

Can we be told what percentage of penalties are actually paid, and what is being done to recover the fines that have not been paid?

Incidentally why would taxi drivers be accidentally using the restricted lanes for a short time? Surely as professional drivers they should know the roads of Bradford more than anyone? It doesn't matter how long you use the lane for, a law is a law. It sounds like it was a common unpenalised practise before cameras were introduced.
Can the T&A please clarify and confirm that "Bradford Council has received £2.3 million in paid fines" means that the fines handed out have actually been paid. Have they really received £2.3m as stated in the attention-grabbing headline para, or is that the total of fines issued as detailed later in the story? Can we be told what percentage of penalties are actually paid, and what is being done to recover the fines that have not been paid? Incidentally why would taxi drivers be accidentally using the restricted lanes for a short time? Surely as professional drivers they should know the roads of Bradford more than anyone? It doesn't matter how long you use the lane for, a law is a law. It sounds like it was a common unpenalised practise before cameras were introduced. citizen smith
  • Score: 0

9:43am Wed 5 Dec 12

angry bradfordian says...

webess wrote:
angry bradfordian wrote:
webess wrote:
It's quite clear the council love the cash cow that is bus lanes and are almost certainly making more profit than the bus company.
However how much is it costing the city, particularly the centre in lost business? I know of two visitors to the city who got lost in the city centre and strayed into a bus lane (one for a couple of seconds in the early hours in the morning). Neither of them will be visiting Bradford again.
The bus lane seems to work in almost every other city I've travelled through and mean that using the bus is much easier than car travel in to city centres. The problem here seems to be that the buses are empty; not the bus lane's fault.

I also have no sympathy for people who get caught using bus lanes. They're covered in massive signs telling you when they can be used so if somebody gets caught they're either unable to read a sign (and shouldn't be driving) or are just selfish.
Don't worry, plenty of smug drivers like you get caught out too....
Not being fined yet- I can't think of a single Bradford bus lane that isn't clearly signposted with big, bright blue signs.

If people can't read them or choose to ignore them they shouldn't be driving. Do you also think it's acceptable to break the speed limit? Those signs are just as obvious.
[quote][p][bold]webess[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]angry bradfordian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]webess[/bold] wrote: It's quite clear the council love the cash cow that is bus lanes and are almost certainly making more profit than the bus company. However how much is it costing the city, particularly the centre in lost business? I know of two visitors to the city who got lost in the city centre and strayed into a bus lane (one for a couple of seconds in the early hours in the morning). Neither of them will be visiting Bradford again.[/p][/quote]The bus lane seems to work in almost every other city I've travelled through and mean that using the bus is much easier than car travel in to city centres. The problem here seems to be that the buses are empty; not the bus lane's fault. I also have no sympathy for people who get caught using bus lanes. They're covered in massive signs telling you when they can be used so if somebody gets caught they're either unable to read a sign (and shouldn't be driving) or are just selfish.[/p][/quote]Don't worry, plenty of smug drivers like you get caught out too....[/p][/quote]Not being fined yet- I can't think of a single Bradford bus lane that isn't clearly signposted with big, bright blue signs. If people can't read them or choose to ignore them they shouldn't be driving. Do you also think it's acceptable to break the speed limit? Those signs are just as obvious. angry bradfordian
  • Score: 0

9:44am Wed 5 Dec 12

webess says...

Old Dave wrote:
Leeds has many more bus lanes than Bradford and pioneered the 2+ lane that Bradfordf has since adopted.

The problem in Bradford isnt the bus lanes, it is the lack of quality shops, brought about by the lack of quality people to frequent them, which in many cases is brought about by the lawles-sness of some people in Bradford, and the many apologists for them.

I drive along Manningham Lane at least twice daily, and up Thornton Road, almost as much. The bus lanes a clearly marked and signposted. In the City Centre, big no entry signs are in place to tell people not to enter areas.

If people understand the highway code and its signs, and then abide by the rules, there are no problems.

So the council is collecting fines from people who disregard the rules of the road. Good on them. This is one smaqll thing they are doing right!
As you're such a know it all on the highway code, I assume you quickly spotted the mistake in the sign posting in the picture on this article?
[quote][p][bold]Old Dave[/bold] wrote: Leeds has many more bus lanes than Bradford and pioneered the 2+ lane that Bradfordf has since adopted. The problem in Bradford isnt the bus lanes, it is the lack of quality shops, brought about by the lack of quality people to frequent them, which in many cases is brought about by the lawles-sness of some people in Bradford, and the many apologists for them. I drive along Manningham Lane at least twice daily, and up Thornton Road, almost as much. The bus lanes a clearly marked and signposted. In the City Centre, big no entry signs are in place to tell people not to enter areas. If people understand the highway code and its signs, and then abide by the rules, there are no problems. So the council is collecting fines from people who disregard the rules of the road. Good on them. This is one smaqll thing they are doing right![/p][/quote]As you're such a know it all on the highway code, I assume you quickly spotted the mistake in the sign posting in the picture on this article? webess
  • Score: 0

10:00am Wed 5 Dec 12

tyker2 says...

the main problem is a total lack of understanding of the signs:Manningham Lane is a classic: when I visit and use that i always use the inside lane when the hours are right:the looks on driver's faces as I sail past on the inside lane are amazing.However i could be done for undertaking!!!
the main problem is a total lack of understanding of the signs:Manningham Lane is a classic: when I visit and use that i always use the inside lane when the hours are right:the looks on driver's faces as I sail past on the inside lane are amazing.However i could be done for undertaking!!! tyker2
  • Score: 0

10:00am Wed 5 Dec 12

tyker2 says...

the main problem is a total lack of understanding of the signs:Manningham Lane is a classic: when I visit and use that i always use the inside lane when the hours are right:the looks on driver's faces as I sail past on the inside lane are amazing.However i could be done for undertaking!!!
the main problem is a total lack of understanding of the signs:Manningham Lane is a classic: when I visit and use that i always use the inside lane when the hours are right:the looks on driver's faces as I sail past on the inside lane are amazing.However i could be done for undertaking!!! tyker2
  • Score: 0

10:08am Wed 5 Dec 12

bradfordlad says...

most pointless bus lane is the one outside city hall / centenary square. you have to go all the way round and past hsbc on market street. Then when you try to pull out , the bus drivers never give way so your stuck for ages. Bus lanes are more damage to the environment than anything as more fuel is used by drivers!
most pointless bus lane is the one outside city hall / centenary square. you have to go all the way round and past hsbc on market street. Then when you try to pull out , the bus drivers never give way so your stuck for ages. Bus lanes are more damage to the environment than anything as more fuel is used by drivers! bradfordlad
  • Score: 0

10:16am Wed 5 Dec 12

webess says...

tyker2 wrote:
the main problem is a total lack of understanding of the signs:Manningham Lane is a classic: when I visit and use that i always use the inside lane when the hours are right:the looks on driver's faces as I sail past on the inside lane are amazing.However i could be done for undertaking!!!
So if the clock in your car is wrong you get a penalty(not a fine BTW) from the council. Then a charge of dangerous driving from plod...
[quote][p][bold]tyker2[/bold] wrote: the main problem is a total lack of understanding of the signs:Manningham Lane is a classic: when I visit and use that i always use the inside lane when the hours are right:the looks on driver's faces as I sail past on the inside lane are amazing.However i could be done for undertaking!!![/p][/quote]So if the clock in your car is wrong you get a penalty(not a fine BTW) from the council. Then a charge of dangerous driving from plod... webess
  • Score: 0

10:27am Wed 5 Dec 12

allannicho says...

I had to do an evening duty in the center
one night. Came off duty took a wrong turn and bingo £60 fine.
They brook no excuses, waste of time appealing its just a cash cow.
I had to do an evening duty in the center one night. Came off duty took a wrong turn and bingo £60 fine. They brook no excuses, waste of time appealing its just a cash cow. allannicho
  • Score: 0

10:27am Wed 5 Dec 12

allannicho says...

I had to do an evening duty in the center
one night. Came off duty took a wrong turn and bingo £60 fine.
They brook no excuses, waste of time appealing its just a cash cow.
I had to do an evening duty in the center one night. Came off duty took a wrong turn and bingo £60 fine. They brook no excuses, waste of time appealing its just a cash cow. allannicho
  • Score: 0

10:36am Wed 5 Dec 12

tyker2 says...

it is not dangerous driving it is using the road to it's maximum effect:surely those using outside lanes incorrectly are as guilty:for example travelling from Dorset yesterday on the M3 travelling uphill an overloaded caravanette decided he was going to travel at 40 mph in the middle lane:chaos was being created but the driver of said vehicle was totally oblivious of his poor diving standards.
it is not dangerous driving it is using the road to it's maximum effect:surely those using outside lanes incorrectly are as guilty:for example travelling from Dorset yesterday on the M3 travelling uphill an overloaded caravanette decided he was going to travel at 40 mph in the middle lane:chaos was being created but the driver of said vehicle was totally oblivious of his poor diving standards. tyker2
  • Score: 0

10:37am Wed 5 Dec 12

tinytoonster says...

angry bradfordian wrote:
webess wrote:
angry bradfordian wrote:
webess wrote:
It's quite clear the council love the cash cow that is bus lanes and are almost certainly making more profit than the bus company.
However how much is it costing the city, particularly the centre in lost business? I know of two visitors to the city who got lost in the city centre and strayed into a bus lane (one for a couple of seconds in the early hours in the morning). Neither of them will be visiting Bradford again.
The bus lane seems to work in almost every other city I've travelled through and mean that using the bus is much easier than car travel in to city centres. The problem here seems to be that the buses are empty; not the bus lane's fault.

I also have no sympathy for people who get caught using bus lanes. They're covered in massive signs telling you when they can be used so if somebody gets caught they're either unable to read a sign (and shouldn't be driving) or are just selfish.
Don't worry, plenty of smug drivers like you get caught out too....
Not being fined yet- I can't think of a single Bradford bus lane that isn't clearly signposted with big, bright blue signs.

If people can't read them or choose to ignore them they shouldn't be driving. Do you also think it's acceptable to break the speed limit? Those signs are just as obvious.
well thats funny that because manchester rd is dual carriageway but its 30mph i think but no signs stating that?
wakefield rd is the same, some parts 40mph, some 30mph?
rooley lane is the same.
council makes it up as it goes along to do people for money!
car driver= cash cow!!
tell me thats not confusing?
[quote][p][bold]angry bradfordian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]webess[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]angry bradfordian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]webess[/bold] wrote: It's quite clear the council love the cash cow that is bus lanes and are almost certainly making more profit than the bus company. However how much is it costing the city, particularly the centre in lost business? I know of two visitors to the city who got lost in the city centre and strayed into a bus lane (one for a couple of seconds in the early hours in the morning). Neither of them will be visiting Bradford again.[/p][/quote]The bus lane seems to work in almost every other city I've travelled through and mean that using the bus is much easier than car travel in to city centres. The problem here seems to be that the buses are empty; not the bus lane's fault. I also have no sympathy for people who get caught using bus lanes. They're covered in massive signs telling you when they can be used so if somebody gets caught they're either unable to read a sign (and shouldn't be driving) or are just selfish.[/p][/quote]Don't worry, plenty of smug drivers like you get caught out too....[/p][/quote]Not being fined yet- I can't think of a single Bradford bus lane that isn't clearly signposted with big, bright blue signs. If people can't read them or choose to ignore them they shouldn't be driving. Do you also think it's acceptable to break the speed limit? Those signs are just as obvious.[/p][/quote]well thats funny that because manchester rd is dual carriageway but its 30mph i think but no signs stating that? wakefield rd is the same, some parts 40mph, some 30mph? rooley lane is the same. council makes it up as it goes along to do people for money! car driver= cash cow!! tell me thats not confusing? tinytoonster
  • Score: 0

10:53am Wed 5 Dec 12

Storck says...

webess wrote:
Old Dave wrote:
Leeds has many more bus lanes than Bradford and pioneered the 2+ lane that Bradfordf has since adopted.

The problem in Bradford isnt the bus lanes, it is the lack of quality shops, brought about by the lack of quality people to frequent them, which in many cases is brought about by the lawles-sness of some people in Bradford, and the many apologists for them.

I drive along Manningham Lane at least twice daily, and up Thornton Road, almost as much. The bus lanes a clearly marked and signposted. In the City Centre, big no entry signs are in place to tell people not to enter areas.

If people understand the highway code and its signs, and then abide by the rules, there are no problems.

So the council is collecting fines from people who disregard the rules of the road. Good on them. This is one smaqll thing they are doing right!
As you're such a know it all on the highway code, I assume you quickly spotted the mistake in the sign posting in the picture on this article?
Go on then and share the mistake on the sign.

I'm guessing it is something to do with the only part as it is not really needed?
[quote][p][bold]webess[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Old Dave[/bold] wrote: Leeds has many more bus lanes than Bradford and pioneered the 2+ lane that Bradfordf has since adopted. The problem in Bradford isnt the bus lanes, it is the lack of quality shops, brought about by the lack of quality people to frequent them, which in many cases is brought about by the lawles-sness of some people in Bradford, and the many apologists for them. I drive along Manningham Lane at least twice daily, and up Thornton Road, almost as much. The bus lanes a clearly marked and signposted. In the City Centre, big no entry signs are in place to tell people not to enter areas. If people understand the highway code and its signs, and then abide by the rules, there are no problems. So the council is collecting fines from people who disregard the rules of the road. Good on them. This is one smaqll thing they are doing right![/p][/quote]As you're such a know it all on the highway code, I assume you quickly spotted the mistake in the sign posting in the picture on this article?[/p][/quote]Go on then and share the mistake on the sign. I'm guessing it is something to do with the only part as it is not really needed? Storck
  • Score: 0

10:57am Wed 5 Dec 12

Thee Voice of Reason says...

I've long sinced stopped going into the City Center and as such I have never been fined.
I've long sinced stopped going into the City Center and as such I have never been fined. Thee Voice of Reason
  • Score: 0

11:13am Wed 5 Dec 12

BigFigure says...

tinytoonster wrote:
angry bradfordian wrote:
webess wrote:
angry bradfordian wrote:
webess wrote:
It's quite clear the council love the cash cow that is bus lanes and are almost certainly making more profit than the bus company.
However how much is it costing the city, particularly the centre in lost business? I know of two visitors to the city who got lost in the city centre and strayed into a bus lane (one for a couple of seconds in the early hours in the morning). Neither of them will be visiting Bradford again.
The bus lane seems to work in almost every other city I've travelled through and mean that using the bus is much easier than car travel in to city centres. The problem here seems to be that the buses are empty; not the bus lane's fault.

I also have no sympathy for people who get caught using bus lanes. They're covered in massive signs telling you when they can be used so if somebody gets caught they're either unable to read a sign (and shouldn't be driving) or are just selfish.
Don't worry, plenty of smug drivers like you get caught out too....
Not being fined yet- I can't think of a single Bradford bus lane that isn't clearly signposted with big, bright blue signs.

If people can't read them or choose to ignore them they shouldn't be driving. Do you also think it's acceptable to break the speed limit? Those signs are just as obvious.
well thats funny that because manchester rd is dual carriageway but its 30mph i think but no signs stating that?
wakefield rd is the same, some parts 40mph, some 30mph?
rooley lane is the same.
council makes it up as it goes along to do people for money!
car driver= cash cow!!
tell me thats not confusing?
No 30 mph signs on Manchester Road for one simple reason.....on any urban road, if there are no speed limit signs, then the limit is always 30 mph. And if you are on a main road and not sure of the speed limit, have a look at side streets you pass....if they have 30 signs, then you know the limit on the main road is higher
[quote][p][bold]tinytoonster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]angry bradfordian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]webess[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]angry bradfordian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]webess[/bold] wrote: It's quite clear the council love the cash cow that is bus lanes and are almost certainly making more profit than the bus company. However how much is it costing the city, particularly the centre in lost business? I know of two visitors to the city who got lost in the city centre and strayed into a bus lane (one for a couple of seconds in the early hours in the morning). Neither of them will be visiting Bradford again.[/p][/quote]The bus lane seems to work in almost every other city I've travelled through and mean that using the bus is much easier than car travel in to city centres. The problem here seems to be that the buses are empty; not the bus lane's fault. I also have no sympathy for people who get caught using bus lanes. They're covered in massive signs telling you when they can be used so if somebody gets caught they're either unable to read a sign (and shouldn't be driving) or are just selfish.[/p][/quote]Don't worry, plenty of smug drivers like you get caught out too....[/p][/quote]Not being fined yet- I can't think of a single Bradford bus lane that isn't clearly signposted with big, bright blue signs. If people can't read them or choose to ignore them they shouldn't be driving. Do you also think it's acceptable to break the speed limit? Those signs are just as obvious.[/p][/quote]well thats funny that because manchester rd is dual carriageway but its 30mph i think but no signs stating that? wakefield rd is the same, some parts 40mph, some 30mph? rooley lane is the same. council makes it up as it goes along to do people for money! car driver= cash cow!! tell me thats not confusing?[/p][/quote]No 30 mph signs on Manchester Road for one simple reason.....on any urban road, if there are no speed limit signs, then the limit is always 30 mph. And if you are on a main road and not sure of the speed limit, have a look at side streets you pass....if they have 30 signs, then you know the limit on the main road is higher BigFigure
  • Score: 0

11:21am Wed 5 Dec 12

Thee Voice of Reason says...

In that picture am I right in saying that the first time you realise this is a bus lane is once you hit the bottom of Sunbridge Road? I can't fully remember the layout but there isn't really much you could do at that stage other than perform a U turn so it's no suprise many drive on and end up fined.
In that picture am I right in saying that the first time you realise this is a bus lane is once you hit the bottom of Sunbridge Road? I can't fully remember the layout but there isn't really much you could do at that stage other than perform a U turn so it's no suprise many drive on and end up fined. Thee Voice of Reason
  • Score: 0

11:35am Wed 5 Dec 12

Another Landless Peasant says...

There are many more who deserve to be fined, or banned altogether, such as the maniac in a new white Audi (?), a man of Asian appearance, who undertakes on Manningham Lane at speeds up to 70 mph at my estimate. He is always going too fast for me to get his number, or chuck a brick at the car. This man, whoever he is, is an absolute lunatic and needs locking up.
There are many more who deserve to be fined, or banned altogether, such as the maniac in a new white Audi (?), a man of Asian appearance, who undertakes on Manningham Lane at speeds up to 70 mph at my estimate. He is always going too fast for me to get his number, or chuck a brick at the car. This man, whoever he is, is an absolute lunatic and needs locking up. Another Landless Peasant
  • Score: 0

11:40am Wed 5 Dec 12

webess says...

Storck wrote:
webess wrote:
Old Dave wrote:
Leeds has many more bus lanes than Bradford and pioneered the 2+ lane that Bradfordf has since adopted.

The problem in Bradford isnt the bus lanes, it is the lack of quality shops, brought about by the lack of quality people to frequent them, which in many cases is brought about by the lawles-sness of some people in Bradford, and the many apologists for them.

I drive along Manningham Lane at least twice daily, and up Thornton Road, almost as much. The bus lanes a clearly marked and signposted. In the City Centre, big no entry signs are in place to tell people not to enter areas.

If people understand the highway code and its signs, and then abide by the rules, there are no problems.

So the council is collecting fines from people who disregard the rules of the road. Good on them. This is one smaqll thing they are doing right!
As you're such a know it all on the highway code, I assume you quickly spotted the mistake in the sign posting in the picture on this article?
Go on then and share the mistake on the sign.

I'm guessing it is something to do with the only part as it is not really needed?
nope...try again.

Not easy is it, especially if you're a lost visitor at night!
[quote][p][bold]Storck[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]webess[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Old Dave[/bold] wrote: Leeds has many more bus lanes than Bradford and pioneered the 2+ lane that Bradfordf has since adopted. The problem in Bradford isnt the bus lanes, it is the lack of quality shops, brought about by the lack of quality people to frequent them, which in many cases is brought about by the lawles-sness of some people in Bradford, and the many apologists for them. I drive along Manningham Lane at least twice daily, and up Thornton Road, almost as much. The bus lanes a clearly marked and signposted. In the City Centre, big no entry signs are in place to tell people not to enter areas. If people understand the highway code and its signs, and then abide by the rules, there are no problems. So the council is collecting fines from people who disregard the rules of the road. Good on them. This is one smaqll thing they are doing right![/p][/quote]As you're such a know it all on the highway code, I assume you quickly spotted the mistake in the sign posting in the picture on this article?[/p][/quote]Go on then and share the mistake on the sign. I'm guessing it is something to do with the only part as it is not really needed?[/p][/quote]nope...try again. Not easy is it, especially if you're a lost visitor at night! webess
  • Score: 0

11:51am Wed 5 Dec 12

Storck says...

webess wrote:
Storck wrote:
webess wrote:
Old Dave wrote:
Leeds has many more bus lanes than Bradford and pioneered the 2+ lane that Bradfordf has since adopted.

The problem in Bradford isnt the bus lanes, it is the lack of quality shops, brought about by the lack of quality people to frequent them, which in many cases is brought about by the lawles-sness of some people in Bradford, and the many apologists for them.

I drive along Manningham Lane at least twice daily, and up Thornton Road, almost as much. The bus lanes a clearly marked and signposted. In the City Centre, big no entry signs are in place to tell people not to enter areas.

If people understand the highway code and its signs, and then abide by the rules, there are no problems.

So the council is collecting fines from people who disregard the rules of the road. Good on them. This is one smaqll thing they are doing right!
As you're such a know it all on the highway code, I assume you quickly spotted the mistake in the sign posting in the picture on this article?
Go on then and share the mistake on the sign.

I'm guessing it is something to do with the only part as it is not really needed?
nope...try again.

Not easy is it, especially if you're a lost visitor at night!
After looking again I can not see anything wrong with the three signs. They are all legal in their design.

So go on, show your great insight and let us know what you "think" is wrong with them, then we might be able to correct you.
[quote][p][bold]webess[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Storck[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]webess[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Old Dave[/bold] wrote: Leeds has many more bus lanes than Bradford and pioneered the 2+ lane that Bradfordf has since adopted. The problem in Bradford isnt the bus lanes, it is the lack of quality shops, brought about by the lack of quality people to frequent them, which in many cases is brought about by the lawles-sness of some people in Bradford, and the many apologists for them. I drive along Manningham Lane at least twice daily, and up Thornton Road, almost as much. The bus lanes a clearly marked and signposted. In the City Centre, big no entry signs are in place to tell people not to enter areas. If people understand the highway code and its signs, and then abide by the rules, there are no problems. So the council is collecting fines from people who disregard the rules of the road. Good on them. This is one smaqll thing they are doing right![/p][/quote]As you're such a know it all on the highway code, I assume you quickly spotted the mistake in the sign posting in the picture on this article?[/p][/quote]Go on then and share the mistake on the sign. I'm guessing it is something to do with the only part as it is not really needed?[/p][/quote]nope...try again. Not easy is it, especially if you're a lost visitor at night![/p][/quote]After looking again I can not see anything wrong with the three signs. They are all legal in their design. So go on, show your great insight and let us know what you "think" is wrong with them, then we might be able to correct you. Storck
  • Score: 0

11:54am Wed 5 Dec 12

yorkshiredude says...

I live in the city centre, I am a bus user - but the lanes are quite baffling for people visiting me by car.

Think you need a PhD to understand the way around town by car.
I live in the city centre, I am a bus user - but the lanes are quite baffling for people visiting me by car. Think you need a PhD to understand the way around town by car. yorkshiredude
  • Score: 0

11:55am Wed 5 Dec 12

webess says...

Storck wrote:
webess wrote:
Storck wrote:
webess wrote:
Old Dave wrote:
Leeds has many more bus lanes than Bradford and pioneered the 2+ lane that Bradfordf has since adopted.

The problem in Bradford isnt the bus lanes, it is the lack of quality shops, brought about by the lack of quality people to frequent them, which in many cases is brought about by the lawles-sness of some people in Bradford, and the many apologists for them.

I drive along Manningham Lane at least twice daily, and up Thornton Road, almost as much. The bus lanes a clearly marked and signposted. In the City Centre, big no entry signs are in place to tell people not to enter areas.

If people understand the highway code and its signs, and then abide by the rules, there are no problems.

So the council is collecting fines from people who disregard the rules of the road. Good on them. This is one smaqll thing they are doing right!
As you're such a know it all on the highway code, I assume you quickly spotted the mistake in the sign posting in the picture on this article?
Go on then and share the mistake on the sign.

I'm guessing it is something to do with the only part as it is not really needed?
nope...try again.

Not easy is it, especially if you're a lost visitor at night!
After looking again I can not see anything wrong with the three signs. They are all legal in their design.

So go on, show your great insight and let us know what you "think" is wrong with them, then we might be able to correct you.
From your tone I suspect you work for the council highways, so I'm not going help you do your job.
[quote][p][bold]Storck[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]webess[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Storck[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]webess[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Old Dave[/bold] wrote: Leeds has many more bus lanes than Bradford and pioneered the 2+ lane that Bradfordf has since adopted. The problem in Bradford isnt the bus lanes, it is the lack of quality shops, brought about by the lack of quality people to frequent them, which in many cases is brought about by the lawles-sness of some people in Bradford, and the many apologists for them. I drive along Manningham Lane at least twice daily, and up Thornton Road, almost as much. The bus lanes a clearly marked and signposted. In the City Centre, big no entry signs are in place to tell people not to enter areas. If people understand the highway code and its signs, and then abide by the rules, there are no problems. So the council is collecting fines from people who disregard the rules of the road. Good on them. This is one smaqll thing they are doing right![/p][/quote]As you're such a know it all on the highway code, I assume you quickly spotted the mistake in the sign posting in the picture on this article?[/p][/quote]Go on then and share the mistake on the sign. I'm guessing it is something to do with the only part as it is not really needed?[/p][/quote]nope...try again. Not easy is it, especially if you're a lost visitor at night![/p][/quote]After looking again I can not see anything wrong with the three signs. They are all legal in their design. So go on, show your great insight and let us know what you "think" is wrong with them, then we might be able to correct you.[/p][/quote]From your tone I suspect you work for the council highways, so I'm not going help you do your job. webess
  • Score: 0

12:01pm Wed 5 Dec 12

Bingleyite says...

It is true that the bus lanes in Bradford are very clearly signposted. What is not clear is why people think you can't use them when you can - it bothers me that if people are so oblivious to the bus lane signs, what other - perhaps more vital - road signs are they missing/ignoring?

The council are fully at liberty (and correct) to collect fines from people ignoring the signage.

Now if the council could just stop issuing stupid parking tickets that would be super!
It is true that the bus lanes in Bradford are very clearly signposted. What is not clear is why people think you can't use them when you can - it bothers me that if people are so oblivious to the bus lane signs, what other - perhaps more vital - road signs are they missing/ignoring? The council are fully at liberty (and correct) to collect fines from people ignoring the signage. Now if the council could just stop issuing stupid parking tickets that would be super! Bingleyite
  • Score: 0

12:01pm Wed 5 Dec 12

vax2002 says...

Always examine the signs and check them against the regulations.
Hundreds of penalty notices have been cancelled by adjudication for non compliant signs on Bradford bus lanes.
The most common error is signs to one side of the road only, giving drivers the defence of obscured signs.
Do your research, hundreds have been cancelled or not contested, it is a 3 stage appeal, two rubber stamp failed council ones and then adjudication where the law has to be followed and here the money grabbers fall like flies.
Always examine the signs and check them against the regulations. Hundreds of penalty notices have been cancelled by adjudication for non compliant signs on Bradford bus lanes. The most common error is signs to one side of the road only, giving drivers the defence of obscured signs. Do your research, hundreds have been cancelled or not contested, it is a 3 stage appeal, two rubber stamp failed council ones and then adjudication where the law has to be followed and here the money grabbers fall like flies. vax2002
  • Score: 0

12:09pm Wed 5 Dec 12

vax2002 says...

undercliffebantam wrote:
webess wrote:
It's quite clear the council love the cash cow that is bus lanes and are almost certainly making more profit than the bus company.
However how much is it costing the city, particularly the centre in lost business? I know of two visitors to the city who got lost in the city centre and strayed into a bus lane (one for a couple of seconds in the early hours in the morning). Neither of them will be visiting Bradford again.
Good, we don't want lawbreakers in Bradford.
What Law ?
[quote][p][bold]undercliffebantam[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]webess[/bold] wrote: It's quite clear the council love the cash cow that is bus lanes and are almost certainly making more profit than the bus company. However how much is it costing the city, particularly the centre in lost business? I know of two visitors to the city who got lost in the city centre and strayed into a bus lane (one for a couple of seconds in the early hours in the morning). Neither of them will be visiting Bradford again.[/p][/quote]Good, we don't want lawbreakers in Bradford.[/p][/quote]What Law ? vax2002
  • Score: 0

12:14pm Wed 5 Dec 12

vax2002 says...

On the signs:
The sign in this picture is compliant, if it is at both sides of the road.
However as it appears they "forgot" to paint to required road markings.
They might want to send someone round with some paint before everyone demands their money back.
On the signs: The sign in this picture is compliant, if it is at both sides of the road. However as it appears they "forgot" to paint to required road markings. They might want to send someone round with some paint before everyone demands their money back. vax2002
  • Score: 0

12:15pm Wed 5 Dec 12

Andy2010 says...

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
There are many more who deserve to be fined, or banned altogether, such as the maniac in a new white Audi (?), a man of Asian appearance, who undertakes on Manningham Lane at speeds up to 70 mph at my estimate. He is always going too fast for me to get his number, or chuck a brick at the car. This man, whoever he is, is an absolute lunatic and needs locking up.
Its important to get to them weed deliveries on time you know

For once ALP i agree with you
[quote][p][bold]Another Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: There are many more who deserve to be fined, or banned altogether, such as the maniac in a new white Audi (?), a man of Asian appearance, who undertakes on Manningham Lane at speeds up to 70 mph at my estimate. He is always going too fast for me to get his number, or chuck a brick at the car. This man, whoever he is, is an absolute lunatic and needs locking up.[/p][/quote]Its important to get to them weed deliveries on time you know For once ALP i agree with you Andy2010
  • Score: 0

12:15pm Wed 5 Dec 12

Clowny says...

bradfordlad wrote:
most pointless bus lane is the one outside city hall / centenary square. you have to go all the way round and past hsbc on market street. Then when you try to pull out , the bus drivers never give way so your stuck for ages. Bus lanes are more damage to the environment than anything as more fuel is used by drivers!
This is the example I'm thinking of for one. You have short roads that start off as normal roads and then become bus lanes clearly catching a number of drivers out.
[quote][p][bold]bradfordlad[/bold] wrote: most pointless bus lane is the one outside city hall / centenary square. you have to go all the way round and past hsbc on market street. Then when you try to pull out , the bus drivers never give way so your stuck for ages. Bus lanes are more damage to the environment than anything as more fuel is used by drivers![/p][/quote]This is the example I'm thinking of for one. You have short roads that start off as normal roads and then become bus lanes clearly catching a number of drivers out. Clowny
  • Score: 0

12:17pm Wed 5 Dec 12

webess says...

vax2002 wrote:
Always examine the signs and check them against the regulations.
Hundreds of penalty notices have been cancelled by adjudication for non compliant signs on Bradford bus lanes.
The most common error is signs to one side of the road only, giving drivers the defence of obscured signs.
Do your research, hundreds have been cancelled or not contested, it is a 3 stage appeal, two rubber stamp failed council ones and then adjudication where the law has to be followed and here the money grabbers fall like flies.
Bang on!

Good idea to check the TMO as well ;-)

Twice the council have tried to relieve me of my hard earned money for non existent infractions.
Response has been same both times. At first they insist they're infallible...then they quietly drop the case.
[quote][p][bold]vax2002[/bold] wrote: Always examine the signs and check them against the regulations. Hundreds of penalty notices have been cancelled by adjudication for non compliant signs on Bradford bus lanes. The most common error is signs to one side of the road only, giving drivers the defence of obscured signs. Do your research, hundreds have been cancelled or not contested, it is a 3 stage appeal, two rubber stamp failed council ones and then adjudication where the law has to be followed and here the money grabbers fall like flies.[/p][/quote]Bang on! Good idea to check the TMO as well ;-) Twice the council have tried to relieve me of my hard earned money for non existent infractions. Response has been same both times. At first they insist they're infallible...then they quietly drop the case. webess
  • Score: 0

12:18pm Wed 5 Dec 12

Clowny says...

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
In that picture am I right in saying that the first time you realise this is a bus lane is once you hit the bottom of Sunbridge Road? I can't fully remember the layout but there isn't really much you could do at that stage other than perform a U turn so it's no suprise many drive on and end up fined.
Yes I think so, you're directed along road that suddenly become bus lanes. If there was a sign beforehand saying bus lane ahead take the next left then fair enough.
[quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: In that picture am I right in saying that the first time you realise this is a bus lane is once you hit the bottom of Sunbridge Road? I can't fully remember the layout but there isn't really much you could do at that stage other than perform a U turn so it's no suprise many drive on and end up fined.[/p][/quote]Yes I think so, you're directed along road that suddenly become bus lanes. If there was a sign beforehand saying bus lane ahead take the next left then fair enough. Clowny
  • Score: 0

12:34pm Wed 5 Dec 12

nowt fresh says...

tinytoonster wrote:
angry bradfordian wrote:
webess wrote:
angry bradfordian wrote:
webess wrote: It's quite clear the council love the cash cow that is bus lanes and are almost certainly making more profit than the bus company. However how much is it costing the city, particularly the centre in lost business? I know of two visitors to the city who got lost in the city centre and strayed into a bus lane (one for a couple of seconds in the early hours in the morning). Neither of them will be visiting Bradford again.
The bus lane seems to work in almost every other city I've travelled through and mean that using the bus is much easier than car travel in to city centres. The problem here seems to be that the buses are empty; not the bus lane's fault. I also have no sympathy for people who get caught using bus lanes. They're covered in massive signs telling you when they can be used so if somebody gets caught they're either unable to read a sign (and shouldn't be driving) or are just selfish.
Don't worry, plenty of smug drivers like you get caught out too....
Not being fined yet- I can't think of a single Bradford bus lane that isn't clearly signposted with big, bright blue signs. If people can't read them or choose to ignore them they shouldn't be driving. Do you also think it's acceptable to break the speed limit? Those signs are just as obvious.
well thats funny that because manchester rd is dual carriageway but its 30mph i think but no signs stating that? wakefield rd is the same, some parts 40mph, some 30mph? rooley lane is the same. council makes it up as it goes along to do people for money! car driver= cash cow!! tell me thats not confusing?
Agree with your above comment with regards motorists being cash cows,here's a classic go down to watch Bradford City midweek and it is very difficult to park as all parking outside resident houses is "parking permit only" and one of the longest roads in Bradford "Midland Road" you can't park between 5pm and 9pm on Tuesday,Wednesday,Th
ursday evenings there are no auctions down there any more so why is this road off limits when there is restricted parking because of the above, God knows how the 23,000 fans who attend the Arsenal game will go on as public transport could not cope.
[quote][p][bold]tinytoonster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]angry bradfordian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]webess[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]angry bradfordian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]webess[/bold] wrote: It's quite clear the council love the cash cow that is bus lanes and are almost certainly making more profit than the bus company. However how much is it costing the city, particularly the centre in lost business? I know of two visitors to the city who got lost in the city centre and strayed into a bus lane (one for a couple of seconds in the early hours in the morning). Neither of them will be visiting Bradford again.[/p][/quote]The bus lane seems to work in almost every other city I've travelled through and mean that using the bus is much easier than car travel in to city centres. The problem here seems to be that the buses are empty; not the bus lane's fault. I also have no sympathy for people who get caught using bus lanes. They're covered in massive signs telling you when they can be used so if somebody gets caught they're either unable to read a sign (and shouldn't be driving) or are just selfish.[/p][/quote]Don't worry, plenty of smug drivers like you get caught out too....[/p][/quote]Not being fined yet- I can't think of a single Bradford bus lane that isn't clearly signposted with big, bright blue signs. If people can't read them or choose to ignore them they shouldn't be driving. Do you also think it's acceptable to break the speed limit? Those signs are just as obvious.[/p][/quote]well thats funny that because manchester rd is dual carriageway but its 30mph i think but no signs stating that? wakefield rd is the same, some parts 40mph, some 30mph? rooley lane is the same. council makes it up as it goes along to do people for money! car driver= cash cow!! tell me thats not confusing?[/p][/quote]Agree with your above comment with regards motorists being cash cows,here's a classic go down to watch Bradford City midweek and it is very difficult to park as all parking outside resident houses is "parking permit only" and one of the longest roads in Bradford "Midland Road" you can't park between 5pm and 9pm on Tuesday,Wednesday,Th ursday evenings there are no auctions down there any more so why is this road off limits when there is restricted parking because of the above, God knows how the 23,000 fans who attend the Arsenal game will go on as public transport could not cope. nowt fresh
  • Score: 0

12:38pm Wed 5 Dec 12

SinnerSaint says...

webess wrote:
vax2002 wrote:
Always examine the signs and check them against the regulations.
Hundreds of penalty notices have been cancelled by adjudication for non compliant signs on Bradford bus lanes.
The most common error is signs to one side of the road only, giving drivers the defence of obscured signs.
Do your research, hundreds have been cancelled or not contested, it is a 3 stage appeal, two rubber stamp failed council ones and then adjudication where the law has to be followed and here the money grabbers fall like flies.
Bang on!

Good idea to check the TMO as well ;-)

Twice the council have tried to relieve me of my hard earned money for non existent infractions.
Response has been same both times. At first they insist they're infallible...then they quietly drop the case.
You didn't think to help out your two friends with this advice? You know, the ones who'll never come to Bradford again?

Or were you just talking out of your tush?
[quote][p][bold]webess[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]vax2002[/bold] wrote: Always examine the signs and check them against the regulations. Hundreds of penalty notices have been cancelled by adjudication for non compliant signs on Bradford bus lanes. The most common error is signs to one side of the road only, giving drivers the defence of obscured signs. Do your research, hundreds have been cancelled or not contested, it is a 3 stage appeal, two rubber stamp failed council ones and then adjudication where the law has to be followed and here the money grabbers fall like flies.[/p][/quote]Bang on! Good idea to check the TMO as well ;-) Twice the council have tried to relieve me of my hard earned money for non existent infractions. Response has been same both times. At first they insist they're infallible...then they quietly drop the case.[/p][/quote]You didn't think to help out your two friends with this advice? You know, the ones who'll never come to Bradford again? Or were you just talking out of your tush? SinnerSaint
  • Score: 0

12:41pm Wed 5 Dec 12

vax2002 says...

SinnerSaint wrote:
webess wrote:
vax2002 wrote:
Always examine the signs and check them against the regulations.
Hundreds of penalty notices have been cancelled by adjudication for non compliant signs on Bradford bus lanes.
The most common error is signs to one side of the road only, giving drivers the defence of obscured signs.
Do your research, hundreds have been cancelled or not contested, it is a 3 stage appeal, two rubber stamp failed council ones and then adjudication where the law has to be followed and here the money grabbers fall like flies.
Bang on!

Good idea to check the TMO as well ;-)

Twice the council have tried to relieve me of my hard earned money for non existent infractions.
Response has been same both times. At first they insist they're infallible...then they quietly drop the case.
You didn't think to help out your two friends with this advice? You know, the ones who'll never come to Bradford again?

Or were you just talking out of your tush?
To be honest, the best advice you can give any friend, is dont come to Bradford.
You dont run the risk of embarrassing yourself then.
If the world had a backside, it would be Bradford.
[quote][p][bold]SinnerSaint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]webess[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]vax2002[/bold] wrote: Always examine the signs and check them against the regulations. Hundreds of penalty notices have been cancelled by adjudication for non compliant signs on Bradford bus lanes. The most common error is signs to one side of the road only, giving drivers the defence of obscured signs. Do your research, hundreds have been cancelled or not contested, it is a 3 stage appeal, two rubber stamp failed council ones and then adjudication where the law has to be followed and here the money grabbers fall like flies.[/p][/quote]Bang on! Good idea to check the TMO as well ;-) Twice the council have tried to relieve me of my hard earned money for non existent infractions. Response has been same both times. At first they insist they're infallible...then they quietly drop the case.[/p][/quote]You didn't think to help out your two friends with this advice? You know, the ones who'll never come to Bradford again? Or were you just talking out of your tush?[/p][/quote]To be honest, the best advice you can give any friend, is dont come to Bradford. You dont run the risk of embarrassing yourself then. If the world had a backside, it would be Bradford. vax2002
  • Score: 0

12:43pm Wed 5 Dec 12

webess says...

SinnerSaint wrote:
webess wrote:
vax2002 wrote:
Always examine the signs and check them against the regulations.
Hundreds of penalty notices have been cancelled by adjudication for non compliant signs on Bradford bus lanes.
The most common error is signs to one side of the road only, giving drivers the defence of obscured signs.
Do your research, hundreds have been cancelled or not contested, it is a 3 stage appeal, two rubber stamp failed council ones and then adjudication where the law has to be followed and here the money grabbers fall like flies.
Bang on!

Good idea to check the TMO as well ;-)

Twice the council have tried to relieve me of my hard earned money for non existent infractions.
Response has been same both times. At first they insist they're infallible...then they quietly drop the case.
You didn't think to help out your two friends with this advice? You know, the ones who'll never come to Bradford again?

Or were you just talking out of your tush?
Nope, like most folk they coughed up within 14 days(before I knew about it) to get the 50% discount. As I'm sure you know, once you've coughed up it's pretty much case closed...
[quote][p][bold]SinnerSaint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]webess[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]vax2002[/bold] wrote: Always examine the signs and check them against the regulations. Hundreds of penalty notices have been cancelled by adjudication for non compliant signs on Bradford bus lanes. The most common error is signs to one side of the road only, giving drivers the defence of obscured signs. Do your research, hundreds have been cancelled or not contested, it is a 3 stage appeal, two rubber stamp failed council ones and then adjudication where the law has to be followed and here the money grabbers fall like flies.[/p][/quote]Bang on! Good idea to check the TMO as well ;-) Twice the council have tried to relieve me of my hard earned money for non existent infractions. Response has been same both times. At first they insist they're infallible...then they quietly drop the case.[/p][/quote]You didn't think to help out your two friends with this advice? You know, the ones who'll never come to Bradford again? Or were you just talking out of your tush?[/p][/quote]Nope, like most folk they coughed up within 14 days(before I knew about it) to get the 50% discount. As I'm sure you know, once you've coughed up it's pretty much case closed... webess
  • Score: 0

1:17pm Wed 5 Dec 12

stubullsfan says...

angry bradfordian wrote:
webess wrote:
It's quite clear the council love the cash cow that is bus lanes and are almost certainly making more profit than the bus company.
However how much is it costing the city, particularly the centre in lost business? I know of two visitors to the city who got lost in the city centre and strayed into a bus lane (one for a couple of seconds in the early hours in the morning). Neither of them will be visiting Bradford again.
The bus lane seems to work in almost every other city I've travelled through and mean that using the bus is much easier than car travel in to city centres. The problem here seems to be that the buses are empty; not the bus lane's fault.

I also have no sympathy for people who get caught using bus lanes. They're covered in massive signs telling you when they can be used so if somebody gets caught they're either unable to read a sign (and shouldn't be driving) or are just selfish.
drive through Bradford centre and there are road that you go up but then have to do a u turn to avoid the bus lane with no prior warning. They are not well sign posted and the routes for cars make no sense. If you look at Leeds there bus lanes are in the middle of the city but there is a clear route around them. Also all taxis should be banned from bus lanes (most of them in Bradford should be banned from driving) as there is no difference my car traveling through the lanes with my family in it to a taxi.
[quote][p][bold]angry bradfordian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]webess[/bold] wrote: It's quite clear the council love the cash cow that is bus lanes and are almost certainly making more profit than the bus company. However how much is it costing the city, particularly the centre in lost business? I know of two visitors to the city who got lost in the city centre and strayed into a bus lane (one for a couple of seconds in the early hours in the morning). Neither of them will be visiting Bradford again.[/p][/quote]The bus lane seems to work in almost every other city I've travelled through and mean that using the bus is much easier than car travel in to city centres. The problem here seems to be that the buses are empty; not the bus lane's fault. I also have no sympathy for people who get caught using bus lanes. They're covered in massive signs telling you when they can be used so if somebody gets caught they're either unable to read a sign (and shouldn't be driving) or are just selfish.[/p][/quote]drive through Bradford centre and there are road that you go up but then have to do a u turn to avoid the bus lane with no prior warning. They are not well sign posted and the routes for cars make no sense. If you look at Leeds there bus lanes are in the middle of the city but there is a clear route around them. Also all taxis should be banned from bus lanes (most of them in Bradford should be banned from driving) as there is no difference my car traveling through the lanes with my family in it to a taxi. stubullsfan
  • Score: 0

1:43pm Wed 5 Dec 12

Storck says...

vax2002 wrote:
On the signs:
The sign in this picture is compliant, if it is at both sides of the road.
However as it appears they "forgot" to paint to required road markings.
They might want to send someone round with some paint before everyone demands their money back.
Is that the big white letters on the road if you actually go down and look.

Obviously the picture has been taken between the signs going up and the letter writing happening.

Feel free to look on Google Street view to see the writing on the road. :)
[quote][p][bold]vax2002[/bold] wrote: On the signs: The sign in this picture is compliant, if it is at both sides of the road. However as it appears they "forgot" to paint to required road markings. They might want to send someone round with some paint before everyone demands their money back.[/p][/quote]Is that the big white letters on the road if you actually go down and look. Obviously the picture has been taken between the signs going up and the letter writing happening. Feel free to look on Google Street view to see the writing on the road. :) Storck
  • Score: 0

1:46pm Wed 5 Dec 12

Thee Voice of Reason says...

Storck wrote:
vax2002 wrote: On the signs: The sign in this picture is compliant, if it is at both sides of the road. However as it appears they "forgot" to paint to required road markings. They might want to send someone round with some paint before everyone demands their money back.
Is that the big white letters on the road if you actually go down and look. Obviously the picture has been taken between the signs going up and the letter writing happening. Feel free to look on Google Street view to see the writing on the road. :)
There is no warning of the bus lane prior to that photo though is there? So the only thing anyone could do is a U turn at that point.

A simple dead end sign except for buses might help eliminate alot of cars going into the bus lane but the cost of that sign against the loss of income is something that would mean the council wanting to leave the status quo to grab a pocket full of fines.
[quote][p][bold]Storck[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]vax2002[/bold] wrote: On the signs: The sign in this picture is compliant, if it is at both sides of the road. However as it appears they "forgot" to paint to required road markings. They might want to send someone round with some paint before everyone demands their money back.[/p][/quote]Is that the big white letters on the road if you actually go down and look. Obviously the picture has been taken between the signs going up and the letter writing happening. Feel free to look on Google Street view to see the writing on the road. :)[/p][/quote]There is no warning of the bus lane prior to that photo though is there? So the only thing anyone could do is a U turn at that point. A simple dead end sign except for buses might help eliminate alot of cars going into the bus lane but the cost of that sign against the loss of income is something that would mean the council wanting to leave the status quo to grab a pocket full of fines. Thee Voice of Reason
  • Score: 0

2:01pm Wed 5 Dec 12

richard grant says...

THIS BUS LANE IS NOT CLEARLY MARKED. IT IS ILLEGAL ACCORDING TO MY RESEARCH.
IT SHOULD HAVE A 30 METRE DIAGONAL WHITE LINE BEFORE THE BUS LANE STARTS, TO WARN DRIVERS, AND CLEARLY MARKED. IT IS A DELIBERATE MONEY TRAP.
ALL DRIVERS DONT ALL NEED SPECSAVERS.
THIS BUS LANE IS NOT CLEARLY MARKED. IT IS ILLEGAL ACCORDING TO MY RESEARCH. IT SHOULD HAVE A 30 METRE DIAGONAL WHITE LINE BEFORE THE BUS LANE STARTS, TO WARN DRIVERS, AND CLEARLY MARKED. IT IS A DELIBERATE MONEY TRAP. ALL DRIVERS DONT ALL NEED SPECSAVERS. richard grant
  • Score: 0

2:07pm Wed 5 Dec 12

webshow says...

Looks as if all you dunces in favour have fallen in to the council propaganda. Two questions, since austerity began = How many council managers & big bosses have been laid off?
Second question = How many services & council workers on the bottom have been laid off?
Despite technology being avaialable for over a decade the bus lane & all the speed cameras & city centre parking charges started when austerity began. The cameras are a cash cow paying the incompetent council management wages. How do you get rid of these leeches so we pay less council tax & get more value for our money? The bus lane cameras are a farce. But people here don't see it.
Looks as if all you dunces in favour have fallen in to the council propaganda. Two questions, since austerity began = How many council managers & big bosses have been laid off? Second question = How many services & council workers on the bottom have been laid off? Despite technology being avaialable for over a decade the bus lane & all the speed cameras & city centre parking charges started when austerity began. The cameras are a cash cow paying the incompetent council management wages. How do you get rid of these leeches so we pay less council tax & get more value for our money? The bus lane cameras are a farce. But people here don't see it. webshow
  • Score: 0

2:50pm Wed 5 Dec 12

webess says...

richard grant wrote:
THIS BUS LANE IS NOT CLEARLY MARKED. IT IS ILLEGAL ACCORDING TO MY RESEARCH.
IT SHOULD HAVE A 30 METRE DIAGONAL WHITE LINE BEFORE THE BUS LANE STARTS, TO WARN DRIVERS, AND CLEARLY MARKED. IT IS A DELIBERATE MONEY TRAP.
ALL DRIVERS DONT ALL NEED SPECSAVERS.
It's not a bus lane, it's a bus only street.

That small fact has thrown many other people though...
[quote][p][bold]richard grant[/bold] wrote: THIS BUS LANE IS NOT CLEARLY MARKED. IT IS ILLEGAL ACCORDING TO MY RESEARCH. IT SHOULD HAVE A 30 METRE DIAGONAL WHITE LINE BEFORE THE BUS LANE STARTS, TO WARN DRIVERS, AND CLEARLY MARKED. IT IS A DELIBERATE MONEY TRAP. ALL DRIVERS DONT ALL NEED SPECSAVERS.[/p][/quote]It's not a bus lane, it's a bus only street. That small fact has thrown many other people though... webess
  • Score: 0

3:05pm Wed 5 Dec 12

BigFigure says...

Not sure when the photo above was taken,but now the signage is very clear, including No Entry signs and road markings which clearly guide car drivers around the back of City Hall away from the BUS LANE, which is indicated in big letters...no excuse for getting caught
Not sure when the photo above was taken,but now the signage is very clear, including No Entry signs and road markings which clearly guide car drivers around the back of City Hall away from the BUS LANE, which is indicated in big letters...no excuse for getting caught BigFigure
  • Score: 0

3:05pm Wed 5 Dec 12

Storck says...

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
Storck wrote:
vax2002 wrote: On the signs: The sign in this picture is compliant, if it is at both sides of the road. However as it appears they "forgot" to paint to required road markings. They might want to send someone round with some paint before everyone demands their money back.
Is that the big white letters on the road if you actually go down and look. Obviously the picture has been taken between the signs going up and the letter writing happening. Feel free to look on Google Street view to see the writing on the road. :)
There is no warning of the bus lane prior to that photo though is there? So the only thing anyone could do is a U turn at that point.

A simple dead end sign except for buses might help eliminate alot of cars going into the bus lane but the cost of that sign against the loss of income is something that would mean the council wanting to leave the status quo to grab a pocket full of fines.
At the previous junction there is a sign saying that a Bus/cycle Taxi section is starting. It says no left turn, buses etc only straight forward all other traffic turn right.

Again it is clearly visible if you either go down or look at Google StreetView
[quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Storck[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]vax2002[/bold] wrote: On the signs: The sign in this picture is compliant, if it is at both sides of the road. However as it appears they "forgot" to paint to required road markings. They might want to send someone round with some paint before everyone demands their money back.[/p][/quote]Is that the big white letters on the road if you actually go down and look. Obviously the picture has been taken between the signs going up and the letter writing happening. Feel free to look on Google Street view to see the writing on the road. :)[/p][/quote]There is no warning of the bus lane prior to that photo though is there? So the only thing anyone could do is a U turn at that point. A simple dead end sign except for buses might help eliminate alot of cars going into the bus lane but the cost of that sign against the loss of income is something that would mean the council wanting to leave the status quo to grab a pocket full of fines.[/p][/quote]At the previous junction there is a sign saying that a Bus/cycle Taxi section is starting. It says no left turn, buses etc only straight forward all other traffic turn right. Again it is clearly visible if you either go down or look at Google StreetView Storck
  • Score: 0

3:17pm Wed 5 Dec 12

webess says...

BigFigure wrote:
Not sure when the photo above was taken,but now the signage is very clear, including No Entry signs and road markings which clearly guide car drivers around the back of City Hall away from the BUS LANE, which is indicated in big letters...no excuse for getting caught
Are you sure it's a bus lane and not a bus only street?

Also back of City Hall is access only, so hopefully there's not a sign directing drivers to perform an illegal manoeuvre!
[quote][p][bold]BigFigure[/bold] wrote: Not sure when the photo above was taken,but now the signage is very clear, including No Entry signs and road markings which clearly guide car drivers around the back of City Hall away from the BUS LANE, which is indicated in big letters...no excuse for getting caught[/p][/quote]Are you sure it's a bus lane and not a bus only street? Also back of City Hall is access only, so hopefully there's not a sign directing drivers to perform an illegal manoeuvre! webess
  • Score: 0

3:35pm Wed 5 Dec 12

Storck says...

webess wrote:
BigFigure wrote:
Not sure when the photo above was taken,but now the signage is very clear, including No Entry signs and road markings which clearly guide car drivers around the back of City Hall away from the BUS LANE, which is indicated in big letters...no excuse for getting caught
Are you sure it's a bus lane and not a bus only street?

Also back of City Hall is access only, so hopefully there's not a sign directing drivers to perform an illegal manoeuvre!
If it is access only they should put some signs up. :)

It used to be access only but they changed it and took the signs down when they altered the bus lane/ bus only street, not that i'm sure there is any difference in the signage need for a lane or a road.
[quote][p][bold]webess[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BigFigure[/bold] wrote: Not sure when the photo above was taken,but now the signage is very clear, including No Entry signs and road markings which clearly guide car drivers around the back of City Hall away from the BUS LANE, which is indicated in big letters...no excuse for getting caught[/p][/quote]Are you sure it's a bus lane and not a bus only street? Also back of City Hall is access only, so hopefully there's not a sign directing drivers to perform an illegal manoeuvre![/p][/quote]If it is access only they should put some signs up. :) It used to be access only but they changed it and took the signs down when they altered the bus lane/ bus only street, not that i'm sure there is any difference in the signage need for a lane or a road. Storck
  • Score: 0

3:59pm Wed 5 Dec 12

Clowny says...

Back of city hall is bus/taxi only according to the signs (I saw it myself this morning) so I'm unsure how you can be saying you can turn right there to avoid the bus lane.
Back of city hall is bus/taxi only according to the signs (I saw it myself this morning) so I'm unsure how you can be saying you can turn right there to avoid the bus lane. Clowny
  • Score: 0

4:05pm Wed 5 Dec 12

Thee Voice of Reason says...

Storck wrote:
Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
Storck wrote:
vax2002 wrote: On the signs: The sign in this picture is compliant, if it is at both sides of the road. However as it appears they "forgot" to paint to required road markings. They might want to send someone round with some paint before everyone demands their money back.
Is that the big white letters on the road if you actually go down and look. Obviously the picture has been taken between the signs going up and the letter writing happening. Feel free to look on Google Street view to see the writing on the road. :)
There is no warning of the bus lane prior to that photo though is there? So the only thing anyone could do is a U turn at that point. A simple dead end sign except for buses might help eliminate alot of cars going into the bus lane but the cost of that sign against the loss of income is something that would mean the council wanting to leave the status quo to grab a pocket full of fines.
At the previous junction there is a sign saying that a Bus/cycle Taxi section is starting. It says no left turn, buses etc only straight forward all other traffic turn right. Again it is clearly visible if you either go down or look at Google StreetView
Google maps seems to still show the area before the park was built as there is still buses running between the odeon and city hall so I can't confirm that.

I also haven't driven down that way in a long time so am working from memory as there is not much to go into Bradford for these days.

I attend the City games but not much else.
[quote][p][bold]Storck[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Storck[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]vax2002[/bold] wrote: On the signs: The sign in this picture is compliant, if it is at both sides of the road. However as it appears they "forgot" to paint to required road markings. They might want to send someone round with some paint before everyone demands their money back.[/p][/quote]Is that the big white letters on the road if you actually go down and look. Obviously the picture has been taken between the signs going up and the letter writing happening. Feel free to look on Google Street view to see the writing on the road. :)[/p][/quote]There is no warning of the bus lane prior to that photo though is there? So the only thing anyone could do is a U turn at that point. A simple dead end sign except for buses might help eliminate alot of cars going into the bus lane but the cost of that sign against the loss of income is something that would mean the council wanting to leave the status quo to grab a pocket full of fines.[/p][/quote]At the previous junction there is a sign saying that a Bus/cycle Taxi section is starting. It says no left turn, buses etc only straight forward all other traffic turn right. Again it is clearly visible if you either go down or look at Google StreetView[/p][/quote]Google maps seems to still show the area before the park was built as there is still buses running between the odeon and city hall so I can't confirm that. I also haven't driven down that way in a long time so am working from memory as there is not much to go into Bradford for these days. I attend the City games but not much else. Thee Voice of Reason
  • Score: 0

4:16pm Wed 5 Dec 12

webess says...

Storck wrote:
webess wrote:
BigFigure wrote:
Not sure when the photo above was taken,but now the signage is very clear, including No Entry signs and road markings which clearly guide car drivers around the back of City Hall away from the BUS LANE, which is indicated in big letters...no excuse for getting caught
Are you sure it's a bus lane and not a bus only street?

Also back of City Hall is access only, so hopefully there's not a sign directing drivers to perform an illegal manoeuvre!
If it is access only they should put some signs up. :)

It used to be access only but they changed it and took the signs down when they altered the bus lane/ bus only street, not that i'm sure there is any difference in the signage need for a lane or a road.
The signage for a bus lane and bus only street are different. Look at the TSGRD to check.

It's quite apparent from these postings that the road system in the city centre is a shambles and that the majority of people going into bus lanes/bus only streets are doing so out of confusion. Not flaunting rules.
[quote][p][bold]Storck[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]webess[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BigFigure[/bold] wrote: Not sure when the photo above was taken,but now the signage is very clear, including No Entry signs and road markings which clearly guide car drivers around the back of City Hall away from the BUS LANE, which is indicated in big letters...no excuse for getting caught[/p][/quote]Are you sure it's a bus lane and not a bus only street? Also back of City Hall is access only, so hopefully there's not a sign directing drivers to perform an illegal manoeuvre![/p][/quote]If it is access only they should put some signs up. :) It used to be access only but they changed it and took the signs down when they altered the bus lane/ bus only street, not that i'm sure there is any difference in the signage need for a lane or a road.[/p][/quote]The signage for a bus lane and bus only street are different. Look at the TSGRD to check. It's quite apparent from these postings that the road system in the city centre is a shambles and that the majority of people going into bus lanes/bus only streets are doing so out of confusion. Not flaunting rules. webess
  • Score: 0

4:19pm Wed 5 Dec 12

wrongsideofthetracks says...

citizen smith wrote:
Can the T&A please clarify and confirm that "Bradford Council has received £2.3 million in paid fines" means that the fines handed out have actually been paid. Have they really received £2.3m as stated in the attention-grabbing headline para, or is that the total of fines issued as detailed later in the story?

Can we be told what percentage of penalties are actually paid, and what is being done to recover the fines that have not been paid?

Incidentally why would taxi drivers be accidentally using the restricted lanes for a short time? Surely as professional drivers they should know the roads of Bradford more than anyone? It doesn't matter how long you use the lane for, a law is a law. It sounds like it was a common unpenalised practise before cameras were introduced.
Taxi drivers and professional driving - the perfect example of an oxymoron!
[quote][p][bold]citizen smith[/bold] wrote: Can the T&A please clarify and confirm that "Bradford Council has received £2.3 million in paid fines" means that the fines handed out have actually been paid. Have they really received £2.3m as stated in the attention-grabbing headline para, or is that the total of fines issued as detailed later in the story? Can we be told what percentage of penalties are actually paid, and what is being done to recover the fines that have not been paid? Incidentally why would taxi drivers be accidentally using the restricted lanes for a short time? Surely as professional drivers they should know the roads of Bradford more than anyone? It doesn't matter how long you use the lane for, a law is a law. It sounds like it was a common unpenalised practise before cameras were introduced.[/p][/quote]Taxi drivers and professional driving - the perfect example of an oxymoron! wrongsideofthetracks
  • Score: 0

4:22pm Wed 5 Dec 12

Saltaire Bantam says...

Why don't they try fining all the thousands of uninsured drivers as well?
Why don't they try fining all the thousands of uninsured drivers as well? Saltaire Bantam
  • Score: 0

4:39pm Wed 5 Dec 12

yezboss says...

I was one who did not pay. I challenged them (a) on the legality of the signs, (b) on their procedures. Both are or we're flawed, the signs are illegal in most cases, the procedure by quoting the wrong TRO. I wanted to take them to adjudication on the signs but they dodged that by the flawed procedure, I was therefore thwarted in my intended action, but whilst I do not condone breaching those bus gates and bus lanes they are legally obliged to get it right. And they are not. The circumstances of my alleged breach was never saw the 'signs' in the early hours in fog, that was when I investigated not just at that location but at all of them.
I was one who did not pay. I challenged them (a) on the legality of the signs, (b) on their procedures. Both are or we're flawed, the signs are illegal in most cases, the procedure by quoting the wrong TRO. I wanted to take them to adjudication on the signs but they dodged that by the flawed procedure, I was therefore thwarted in my intended action, but whilst I do not condone breaching those bus gates and bus lanes they are legally obliged to get it right. And they are not. The circumstances of my alleged breach was never saw the 'signs' in the early hours in fog, that was when I investigated not just at that location but at all of them. yezboss
  • Score: 0

4:43pm Wed 5 Dec 12

angry bradfordian says...

webess wrote:
Storck wrote:
webess wrote:
BigFigure wrote:
Not sure when the photo above was taken,but now the signage is very clear, including No Entry signs and road markings which clearly guide car drivers around the back of City Hall away from the BUS LANE, which is indicated in big letters...no excuse for getting caught
Are you sure it's a bus lane and not a bus only street?

Also back of City Hall is access only, so hopefully there's not a sign directing drivers to perform an illegal manoeuvre!
If it is access only they should put some signs up. :)

It used to be access only but they changed it and took the signs down when they altered the bus lane/ bus only street, not that i'm sure there is any difference in the signage need for a lane or a road.
The signage for a bus lane and bus only street are different. Look at the TSGRD to check.

It's quite apparent from these postings that the road system in the city centre is a shambles and that the majority of people going into bus lanes/bus only streets are doing so out of confusion. Not flaunting rules.
When a sign says 'Bus Lane' or 'Bus Only' and has a sign saying there are cameras operating you'd still have to be a bit dim to still be 'confused' enough not to realise that a car isn't allowed to use it.

Most people in Bradford don't seem to understand how traffic lights work, so I suspect they wouldn't be driving based on the 'Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions' rule book!
[quote][p][bold]webess[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Storck[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]webess[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BigFigure[/bold] wrote: Not sure when the photo above was taken,but now the signage is very clear, including No Entry signs and road markings which clearly guide car drivers around the back of City Hall away from the BUS LANE, which is indicated in big letters...no excuse for getting caught[/p][/quote]Are you sure it's a bus lane and not a bus only street? Also back of City Hall is access only, so hopefully there's not a sign directing drivers to perform an illegal manoeuvre![/p][/quote]If it is access only they should put some signs up. :) It used to be access only but they changed it and took the signs down when they altered the bus lane/ bus only street, not that i'm sure there is any difference in the signage need for a lane or a road.[/p][/quote]The signage for a bus lane and bus only street are different. Look at the TSGRD to check. It's quite apparent from these postings that the road system in the city centre is a shambles and that the majority of people going into bus lanes/bus only streets are doing so out of confusion. Not flaunting rules.[/p][/quote]When a sign says 'Bus Lane' or 'Bus Only' and has a sign saying there are cameras operating you'd still have to be a bit dim to still be 'confused' enough not to realise that a car isn't allowed to use it. Most people in Bradford don't seem to understand how traffic lights work, so I suspect they wouldn't be driving based on the 'Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions' rule book! angry bradfordian
  • Score: 0

5:28pm Wed 5 Dec 12

Another Landless Peasant says...

Most drivers in Bradford seem to be completely oblivious to the Highway Code.
Most drivers in Bradford seem to be completely oblivious to the Highway Code. Another Landless Peasant
  • Score: 0

6:12pm Wed 5 Dec 12

Thee Voice of Reason says...

Saltaire Bantam wrote:
Why don't they try fining all the thousands of uninsured drivers as well?
Because that would upset some people.
[quote][p][bold]Saltaire Bantam[/bold] wrote: Why don't they try fining all the thousands of uninsured drivers as well?[/p][/quote]Because that would upset some people. Thee Voice of Reason
  • Score: 0

6:14pm Wed 5 Dec 12

Walruss says...

Shipleyvegas wrote:
Walruss wrote:
I just wish that those sheep who cannot read or tell the time will one day realise that when the bus lane on Manningham Lane is "out of hours", then it is OK to drive in it.
I got pulled by the police for driving on it when it wasn't a bus lane i.e. out of the times. I had to explain how it worked to the police officer. This kind of sums up the general ignorance to the rules of how they work...
I'm not surprised in the slightest.
[quote][p][bold]Shipleyvegas[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Walruss[/bold] wrote: I just wish that those sheep who cannot read or tell the time will one day realise that when the bus lane on Manningham Lane is "out of hours", then it is OK to drive in it.[/p][/quote]I got pulled by the police for driving on it when it wasn't a bus lane i.e. out of the times. I had to explain how it worked to the police officer. This kind of sums up the general ignorance to the rules of how they work...[/p][/quote]I'm not surprised in the slightest. Walruss
  • Score: 0

6:22pm Wed 5 Dec 12

robholmes says...

undercliffebantam wrote:
webess wrote:
It's quite clear the council love the cash cow that is bus lanes and are almost certainly making more profit than the bus company.
However how much is it costing the city, particularly the centre in lost business? I know of two visitors to the city who got lost in the city centre and strayed into a bus lane (one for a couple of seconds in the early hours in the morning). Neither of them will be visiting Bradford again.
Good, we don't want lawbreakers in Bradford.
Bradford is full of lawbreaking motorists with the biggest law breakers being the taxi drivers! The worst on the road since the wheels were invented!
[quote][p][bold]undercliffebantam[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]webess[/bold] wrote: It's quite clear the council love the cash cow that is bus lanes and are almost certainly making more profit than the bus company. However how much is it costing the city, particularly the centre in lost business? I know of two visitors to the city who got lost in the city centre and strayed into a bus lane (one for a couple of seconds in the early hours in the morning). Neither of them will be visiting Bradford again.[/p][/quote]Good, we don't want lawbreakers in Bradford.[/p][/quote]Bradford is full of lawbreaking motorists with the biggest law breakers being the taxi drivers! The worst on the road since the wheels were invented! robholmes
  • Score: 0

6:30pm Wed 5 Dec 12

allannicho says...

vax2002 wrote:
SinnerSaint wrote:
webess wrote:
vax2002 wrote:
Always examine the signs and check them against the regulations.
Hundreds of penalty notices have been cancelled by adjudication for non compliant signs on Bradford bus lanes.
The most common error is signs to one side of the road only, giving drivers the defence of obscured signs.
Do your research, hundreds have been cancelled or not contested, it is a 3 stage appeal, two rubber stamp failed council ones and then adjudication where the law has to be followed and here the money grabbers fall like flies.
Bang on!

Good idea to check the TMO as well ;-)

Twice the council have tried to relieve me of my hard earned money for non existent infractions.
Response has been same both times. At first they insist they're infallible...then they quietly drop the case.
You didn't think to help out your two friends with this advice? You know, the ones who'll never come to Bradford again?

Or were you just talking out of your tush?
To be honest, the best advice you can give any friend, is dont come to Bradford.
You dont run the risk of embarrassing yourself then.
If the world had a backside, it would be Bradford.
Oh! Yes.
[quote][p][bold]vax2002[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]SinnerSaint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]webess[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]vax2002[/bold] wrote: Always examine the signs and check them against the regulations. Hundreds of penalty notices have been cancelled by adjudication for non compliant signs on Bradford bus lanes. The most common error is signs to one side of the road only, giving drivers the defence of obscured signs. Do your research, hundreds have been cancelled or not contested, it is a 3 stage appeal, two rubber stamp failed council ones and then adjudication where the law has to be followed and here the money grabbers fall like flies.[/p][/quote]Bang on! Good idea to check the TMO as well ;-) Twice the council have tried to relieve me of my hard earned money for non existent infractions. Response has been same both times. At first they insist they're infallible...then they quietly drop the case.[/p][/quote]You didn't think to help out your two friends with this advice? You know, the ones who'll never come to Bradford again? Or were you just talking out of your tush?[/p][/quote]To be honest, the best advice you can give any friend, is dont come to Bradford. You dont run the risk of embarrassing yourself then. If the world had a backside, it would be Bradford.[/p][/quote]Oh! Yes. allannicho
  • Score: 0

7:21pm Wed 5 Dec 12

RollandSmoke says...

At least with these cameras placed all over the bus lane there is a slim hope that if you are being attacked on the bus there will be some footage in existence. Any updates on that one T&A?
At least with these cameras placed all over the bus lane there is a slim hope that if you are being attacked on the bus there will be some footage in existence. Any updates on that one T&A? RollandSmoke
  • Score: 0

8:06pm Wed 5 Dec 12

myopinion123 says...

i am a taxi driver and follow the law and regulations. those who dont should be reported to the councill.
whats the concill gona do with all the money its made from the fines? maybe invest in the town centre?
i am a taxi driver and follow the law and regulations. those who dont should be reported to the councill. whats the concill gona do with all the money its made from the fines? maybe invest in the town centre? myopinion123
  • Score: 0

9:01pm Wed 5 Dec 12

Storck says...

webess wrote:
Storck wrote:
webess wrote:
BigFigure wrote:
Not sure when the photo above was taken,but now the signage is very clear, including No Entry signs and road markings which clearly guide car drivers around the back of City Hall away from the BUS LANE, which is indicated in big letters...no excuse for getting caught
Are you sure it's a bus lane and not a bus only street?

Also back of City Hall is access only, so hopefully there's not a sign directing drivers to perform an illegal manoeuvre!
If it is access only they should put some signs up. :)

It used to be access only but they changed it and took the signs down when they altered the bus lane/ bus only street, not that i'm sure there is any difference in the signage need for a lane or a road.
The signage for a bus lane and bus only street are different. Look at the TSGRD to check.

It's quite apparent from these postings that the road system in the city centre is a shambles and that the majority of people going into bus lanes/bus only streets are doing so out of confusion. Not flaunting rules.
Yep. I agree that the signs for bus only roads and bus lanes are different and the one on the road shown in the picture is a bus only road, but it is legal in the fact that the signs are there and there are markings on the road.

So how is it confusing? The sign says Bus/Cycle/Taxi only and also informs you that they are using cameras so how is it a shambles. The only shambles is on the side of the drivers who drive past signs without looking at them.
[quote][p][bold]webess[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Storck[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]webess[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BigFigure[/bold] wrote: Not sure when the photo above was taken,but now the signage is very clear, including No Entry signs and road markings which clearly guide car drivers around the back of City Hall away from the BUS LANE, which is indicated in big letters...no excuse for getting caught[/p][/quote]Are you sure it's a bus lane and not a bus only street? Also back of City Hall is access only, so hopefully there's not a sign directing drivers to perform an illegal manoeuvre![/p][/quote]If it is access only they should put some signs up. :) It used to be access only but they changed it and took the signs down when they altered the bus lane/ bus only street, not that i'm sure there is any difference in the signage need for a lane or a road.[/p][/quote]The signage for a bus lane and bus only street are different. Look at the TSGRD to check. It's quite apparent from these postings that the road system in the city centre is a shambles and that the majority of people going into bus lanes/bus only streets are doing so out of confusion. Not flaunting rules.[/p][/quote]Yep. I agree that the signs for bus only roads and bus lanes are different and the one on the road shown in the picture is a bus only road, but it is legal in the fact that the signs are there and there are markings on the road. So how is it confusing? The sign says Bus/Cycle/Taxi only and also informs you that they are using cameras so how is it a shambles. The only shambles is on the side of the drivers who drive past signs without looking at them. Storck
  • Score: 0

9:59pm Wed 5 Dec 12

webess says...

Storck wrote:
webess wrote:
Storck wrote:
webess wrote:
BigFigure wrote:
Not sure when the photo above was taken,but now the signage is very clear, including No Entry signs and road markings which clearly guide car drivers around the back of City Hall away from the BUS LANE, which is indicated in big letters...no excuse for getting caught
Are you sure it's a bus lane and not a bus only street?

Also back of City Hall is access only, so hopefully there's not a sign directing drivers to perform an illegal manoeuvre!
If it is access only they should put some signs up. :)

It used to be access only but they changed it and took the signs down when they altered the bus lane/ bus only street, not that i'm sure there is any difference in the signage need for a lane or a road.
The signage for a bus lane and bus only street are different. Look at the TSGRD to check.

It's quite apparent from these postings that the road system in the city centre is a shambles and that the majority of people going into bus lanes/bus only streets are doing so out of confusion. Not flaunting rules.
Yep. I agree that the signs for bus only roads and bus lanes are different and the one on the road shown in the picture is a bus only road, but it is legal in the fact that the signs are there and there are markings on the road.

So how is it confusing? The sign says Bus/Cycle/Taxi only and also informs you that they are using cameras so how is it a shambles. The only shambles is on the side of the drivers who drive past signs without looking at them.
If you think the signage is all fine and dandy then try driving along Lower Kirkgate into Market Street - there's no advance warning of the bus only street that is Market Street. And that is only one example of the confusing and unlawful signage we've to put up with.

As for the error in the photo. You've had all day to look at it and still not spotted the error ;-)
[quote][p][bold]Storck[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]webess[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Storck[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]webess[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BigFigure[/bold] wrote: Not sure when the photo above was taken,but now the signage is very clear, including No Entry signs and road markings which clearly guide car drivers around the back of City Hall away from the BUS LANE, which is indicated in big letters...no excuse for getting caught[/p][/quote]Are you sure it's a bus lane and not a bus only street? Also back of City Hall is access only, so hopefully there's not a sign directing drivers to perform an illegal manoeuvre![/p][/quote]If it is access only they should put some signs up. :) It used to be access only but they changed it and took the signs down when they altered the bus lane/ bus only street, not that i'm sure there is any difference in the signage need for a lane or a road.[/p][/quote]The signage for a bus lane and bus only street are different. Look at the TSGRD to check. It's quite apparent from these postings that the road system in the city centre is a shambles and that the majority of people going into bus lanes/bus only streets are doing so out of confusion. Not flaunting rules.[/p][/quote]Yep. I agree that the signs for bus only roads and bus lanes are different and the one on the road shown in the picture is a bus only road, but it is legal in the fact that the signs are there and there are markings on the road. So how is it confusing? The sign says Bus/Cycle/Taxi only and also informs you that they are using cameras so how is it a shambles. The only shambles is on the side of the drivers who drive past signs without looking at them.[/p][/quote]If you think the signage is all fine and dandy then try driving along Lower Kirkgate into Market Street - there's no advance warning of the bus only street that is Market Street. And that is only one example of the confusing and unlawful signage we've to put up with. As for the error in the photo. You've had all day to look at it and still not spotted the error ;-) webess
  • Score: 0

8:23am Thu 6 Dec 12

tyker2 says...

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:
I've long sinced stopped going into the City Center and as such I have never been fined.
which American city center (sic) is that? It is centre in England!!
[quote][p][bold]Thee Voice of Reason[/bold] wrote: I've long sinced stopped going into the City Center and as such I have never been fined.[/p][/quote]which American city center (sic) is that? It is centre in England!! tyker2
  • Score: 0

12:19pm Thu 6 Dec 12

aje2010 says...

Bornagain2him wrote:
I still see several cars an hour driving through Shipley centre, which has been buses only for several years. You have to be totally blind (in which case you shouldnt be driving)not too see the very prominent signs and road markings. I have no sympathy what so ever, with people who flaunt the rules. Its just a shame that the revenue raised is not all spent on improving the condition of our district's roads!
Totally agree. I don't see how people can complain about a fine that has been clearly sign posted. I mean I've had parking tickets, a speeding ticket and although I didn't want to pay them or take responsibility in the end I had to accept my mistake. I had to learn my Highway Code and it clearly taught me about the Highway signs.
I think anybody not wanting to pay the fine because they can't understand the signs should be made to retake the driving tests.
[quote][p][bold]Bornagain2him[/bold] wrote: I still see several cars an hour driving through Shipley centre, which has been buses only for several years. You have to be totally blind (in which case you shouldnt be driving)not too see the very prominent signs and road markings. I have no sympathy what so ever, with people who flaunt the rules. Its just a shame that the revenue raised is not all spent on improving the condition of our district's roads![/p][/quote]Totally agree. I don't see how people can complain about a fine that has been clearly sign posted. I mean I've had parking tickets, a speeding ticket and although I didn't want to pay them or take responsibility in the end I had to accept my mistake. I had to learn my Highway Code and it clearly taught me about the Highway signs. I think anybody not wanting to pay the fine because they can't understand the signs should be made to retake the driving tests. aje2010
  • Score: 0

12:47pm Thu 6 Dec 12

Victor Clayton says...

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
Most drivers in Bradford seem to be completely oblivious to the Highway Code.
i thnk this is the first thing i have ever agreed with you about!
[quote][p][bold]Another Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: Most drivers in Bradford seem to be completely oblivious to the Highway Code.[/p][/quote]i thnk this is the first thing i have ever agreed with you about! Victor Clayton
  • Score: 0

10:13pm Thu 6 Dec 12

WayneRouke says...

Victor Clayton wrote:
Another Landless Peasant wrote:
Most drivers in Bradford seem to be completely oblivious to the Highway Code.
i thnk this is the first thing i have ever agreed with you about!
Ditto..rare but ALP is saying something I agree with.

I think a mistake was made when they took Highway code questions out of the main test and into a (multiple choice) test on its own.

Reaon: Candidates read it once, do practice tests, pass the test and then forget it. The old way it had to be in your head as you were asked every lesson questions and also on the test. Not multi choice

Without looking, overall stopping distance at 30 mph (in feet)


75 feet (yes, I do know them, and the formula to quickly work it out).

I personally try to keep myself up to date with the highway code. But it appears that a lot of drivers do not, or choose to ignore (I refer to all age groups, sexes and races).

Taxi drivers DO appear to drive as if they own the road.

For example, the high way code clearly states you should give way to a vehicle coming up a hill towards you (that just does not happen in Bradford - they just drive at you).

Eg 2: You should not stop in the chevronned area of a box junction unless your exit is clear. You should not obstruct a pedestrian crossing.. Take a look at TONG Street on a daily basis.. A death trap waiting to happen (Again)

Here is a link I found.

www.facebook.com/Bra
dfordsWorstParking
[quote][p][bold]Victor Clayton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Another Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: Most drivers in Bradford seem to be completely oblivious to the Highway Code.[/p][/quote]i thnk this is the first thing i have ever agreed with you about![/p][/quote]Ditto..rare but ALP is saying something I agree with. I think a mistake was made when they took Highway code questions out of the main test and into a (multiple choice) test on its own. Reaon: Candidates read it once, do practice tests, pass the test and then forget it. The old way it had to be in your head as you were asked every lesson questions and also on the test. Not multi choice Without looking, overall stopping distance at 30 mph (in feet) 75 feet (yes, I do know them, and the formula to quickly work it out). I personally try to keep myself up to date with the highway code. But it appears that a lot of drivers do not, or choose to ignore (I refer to all age groups, sexes and races). Taxi drivers DO appear to drive as if they own the road. For example, the high way code clearly states you should give way to a vehicle coming up a hill towards you (that just does not happen in Bradford - they just drive at you). Eg 2: You should not stop in the chevronned area of a box junction unless your exit is clear. You should not obstruct a pedestrian crossing.. Take a look at TONG Street on a daily basis.. A death trap waiting to happen (Again) Here is a link I found. www.facebook.com/Bra dfordsWorstParking WayneRouke
  • Score: 0

12:59pm Fri 7 Dec 12

Victor Clayton says...

WayneRouke wrote:
Victor Clayton wrote:
Another Landless Peasant wrote: Most drivers in Bradford seem to be completely oblivious to the Highway Code.
i thnk this is the first thing i have ever agreed with you about!
Ditto..rare but ALP is saying something I agree with. I think a mistake was made when they took Highway code questions out of the main test and into a (multiple choice) test on its own. Reaon: Candidates read it once, do practice tests, pass the test and then forget it. The old way it had to be in your head as you were asked every lesson questions and also on the test. Not multi choice Without looking, overall stopping distance at 30 mph (in feet) 75 feet (yes, I do know them, and the formula to quickly work it out). I personally try to keep myself up to date with the highway code. But it appears that a lot of drivers do not, or choose to ignore (I refer to all age groups, sexes and races). Taxi drivers DO appear to drive as if they own the road. For example, the high way code clearly states you should give way to a vehicle coming up a hill towards you (that just does not happen in Bradford - they just drive at you). Eg 2: You should not stop in the chevronned area of a box junction unless your exit is clear. You should not obstruct a pedestrian crossing.. Take a look at TONG Street on a daily basis.. A death trap waiting to happen (Again) Here is a link I found. www.facebook.com/Bra dfordsWorstParking
Wayne, you may have solved an argument i was having with the misses. I was turning right on a large junction. the road I was turning right into was clear but there was on coming traffic. so i moved into the box and turned right when the oncoming traffic had passed. she said i should not have gone on to the box until the oncoming traffic had cleared! women drivers - unbelievable.
[quote][p][bold]WayneRouke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Victor Clayton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Another Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: Most drivers in Bradford seem to be completely oblivious to the Highway Code.[/p][/quote]i thnk this is the first thing i have ever agreed with you about![/p][/quote]Ditto..rare but ALP is saying something I agree with. I think a mistake was made when they took Highway code questions out of the main test and into a (multiple choice) test on its own. Reaon: Candidates read it once, do practice tests, pass the test and then forget it. The old way it had to be in your head as you were asked every lesson questions and also on the test. Not multi choice Without looking, overall stopping distance at 30 mph (in feet) 75 feet (yes, I do know them, and the formula to quickly work it out). I personally try to keep myself up to date with the highway code. But it appears that a lot of drivers do not, or choose to ignore (I refer to all age groups, sexes and races). Taxi drivers DO appear to drive as if they own the road. For example, the high way code clearly states you should give way to a vehicle coming up a hill towards you (that just does not happen in Bradford - they just drive at you). Eg 2: You should not stop in the chevronned area of a box junction unless your exit is clear. You should not obstruct a pedestrian crossing.. Take a look at TONG Street on a daily basis.. A death trap waiting to happen (Again) Here is a link I found. www.facebook.com/Bra dfordsWorstParking[/p][/quote]Wayne, you may have solved an argument i was having with the misses. I was turning right on a large junction. the road I was turning right into was clear but there was on coming traffic. so i moved into the box and turned right when the oncoming traffic had passed. she said i should not have gone on to the box until the oncoming traffic had cleared! women drivers - unbelievable. Victor Clayton
  • Score: 0

3:29pm Fri 7 Dec 12

Huneybunch says...

And what are the council going to do with the money that has been paid to them, use it for a pay rise!
And what are the council going to do with the money that has been paid to them, use it for a pay rise! Huneybunch
  • Score: 0

4:31pm Fri 7 Dec 12

Tinybantam says...

tinytoonster wrote:
angry bradfordian wrote:
webess wrote:
angry bradfordian wrote:
webess wrote:
It's quite clear the council love the cash cow that is bus lanes and are almost certainly making more profit than the bus company.
However how much is it costing the city, particularly the centre in lost business? I know of two visitors to the city who got lost in the city centre and strayed into a bus lane (one for a couple of seconds in the early hours in the morning). Neither of them will be visiting Bradford again.
The bus lane seems to work in almost every other city I've travelled through and mean that using the bus is much easier than car travel in to city centres. The problem here seems to be that the buses are empty; not the bus lane's fault.

I also have no sympathy for people who get caught using bus lanes. They're covered in massive signs telling you when they can be used so if somebody gets caught they're either unable to read a sign (and shouldn't be driving) or are just selfish.
Don't worry, plenty of smug drivers like you get caught out too....
Not being fined yet- I can't think of a single Bradford bus lane that isn't clearly signposted with big, bright blue signs.

If people can't read them or choose to ignore them they shouldn't be driving. Do you also think it's acceptable to break the speed limit? Those signs are just as obvious.
well thats funny that because manchester rd is dual carriageway but its 30mph i think but no signs stating that?
wakefield rd is the same, some parts 40mph, some 30mph?
rooley lane is the same.
council makes it up as it goes along to do people for money!
car driver= cash cow!!
tell me thats not confusing?
You should know that if there are no speed limit signs on either a single or dual carriageway, where the lamposts are less than 185 yards apart, that it is 30mph.
[quote][p][bold]tinytoonster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]angry bradfordian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]webess[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]angry bradfordian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]webess[/bold] wrote: It's quite clear the council love the cash cow that is bus lanes and are almost certainly making more profit than the bus company. However how much is it costing the city, particularly the centre in lost business? I know of two visitors to the city who got lost in the city centre and strayed into a bus lane (one for a couple of seconds in the early hours in the morning). Neither of them will be visiting Bradford again.[/p][/quote]The bus lane seems to work in almost every other city I've travelled through and mean that using the bus is much easier than car travel in to city centres. The problem here seems to be that the buses are empty; not the bus lane's fault. I also have no sympathy for people who get caught using bus lanes. They're covered in massive signs telling you when they can be used so if somebody gets caught they're either unable to read a sign (and shouldn't be driving) or are just selfish.[/p][/quote]Don't worry, plenty of smug drivers like you get caught out too....[/p][/quote]Not being fined yet- I can't think of a single Bradford bus lane that isn't clearly signposted with big, bright blue signs. If people can't read them or choose to ignore them they shouldn't be driving. Do you also think it's acceptable to break the speed limit? Those signs are just as obvious.[/p][/quote]well thats funny that because manchester rd is dual carriageway but its 30mph i think but no signs stating that? wakefield rd is the same, some parts 40mph, some 30mph? rooley lane is the same. council makes it up as it goes along to do people for money! car driver= cash cow!! tell me thats not confusing?[/p][/quote]You should know that if there are no speed limit signs on either a single or dual carriageway, where the lamposts are less than 185 yards apart, that it is 30mph. Tinybantam
  • Score: 0

9:58pm Fri 7 Dec 12

WayneRouke says...

Victor Clayton wrote:
WayneRouke wrote:
Victor Clayton wrote:
Another Landless Peasant wrote: Most drivers in Bradford seem to be completely oblivious to the Highway Code.
i thnk this is the first thing i have ever agreed with you about!
Ditto..rare but ALP is saying something I agree with. I think a mistake was made when they took Highway code questions out of the main test and into a (multiple choice) test on its own. Reaon: Candidates read it once, do practice tests, pass the test and then forget it. The old way it had to be in your head as you were asked every lesson questions and also on the test. Not multi choice Without looking, overall stopping distance at 30 mph (in feet) 75 feet (yes, I do know them, and the formula to quickly work it out). I personally try to keep myself up to date with the highway code. But it appears that a lot of drivers do not, or choose to ignore (I refer to all age groups, sexes and races). Taxi drivers DO appear to drive as if they own the road. For example, the high way code clearly states you should give way to a vehicle coming up a hill towards you (that just does not happen in Bradford - they just drive at you). Eg 2: You should not stop in the chevronned area of a box junction unless your exit is clear. You should not obstruct a pedestrian crossing.. Take a look at TONG Street on a daily basis.. A death trap waiting to happen (Again) Here is a link I found. www.facebook.com/Bra dfordsWorstParking
Wayne, you may have solved an argument i was having with the misses. I was turning right on a large junction. the road I was turning right into was clear but there was on coming traffic. so i moved into the box and turned right when the oncoming traffic had passed. she said i should not have gone on to the box until the oncoming traffic had cleared! women drivers - unbelievable.
Always a pleasure to be of assistance..

However, please do check what I said.

Whilst I am sure I am correct on this one, the rules could have changed since my last purchase of the Highway code (about two years ago).
[quote][p][bold]Victor Clayton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]WayneRouke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Victor Clayton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Another Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: Most drivers in Bradford seem to be completely oblivious to the Highway Code.[/p][/quote]i thnk this is the first thing i have ever agreed with you about![/p][/quote]Ditto..rare but ALP is saying something I agree with. I think a mistake was made when they took Highway code questions out of the main test and into a (multiple choice) test on its own. Reaon: Candidates read it once, do practice tests, pass the test and then forget it. The old way it had to be in your head as you were asked every lesson questions and also on the test. Not multi choice Without looking, overall stopping distance at 30 mph (in feet) 75 feet (yes, I do know them, and the formula to quickly work it out). I personally try to keep myself up to date with the highway code. But it appears that a lot of drivers do not, or choose to ignore (I refer to all age groups, sexes and races). Taxi drivers DO appear to drive as if they own the road. For example, the high way code clearly states you should give way to a vehicle coming up a hill towards you (that just does not happen in Bradford - they just drive at you). Eg 2: You should not stop in the chevronned area of a box junction unless your exit is clear. You should not obstruct a pedestrian crossing.. Take a look at TONG Street on a daily basis.. A death trap waiting to happen (Again) Here is a link I found. www.facebook.com/Bra dfordsWorstParking[/p][/quote]Wayne, you may have solved an argument i was having with the misses. I was turning right on a large junction. the road I was turning right into was clear but there was on coming traffic. so i moved into the box and turned right when the oncoming traffic had passed. she said i should not have gone on to the box until the oncoming traffic had cleared! women drivers - unbelievable.[/p][/quote]Always a pleasure to be of assistance.. However, please do check what I said. Whilst I am sure I am correct on this one, the rules could have changed since my last purchase of the Highway code (about two years ago). WayneRouke
  • Score: 0

5:46am Tue 11 Dec 12

alfucham says...

webess wrote:
Storck wrote:
webess wrote:
Storck wrote:
webess wrote:
BigFigure wrote: Not sure when the photo above was taken,but now the signage is very clear, including No Entry signs and road markings which clearly guide car drivers around the back of City Hall away from the BUS LANE, which is indicated in big letters...no excuse for getting caught
Are you sure it's a bus lane and not a bus only street? Also back of City Hall is access only, so hopefully there's not a sign directing drivers to perform an illegal manoeuvre!
If it is access only they should put some signs up. :) It used to be access only but they changed it and took the signs down when they altered the bus lane/ bus only street, not that i'm sure there is any difference in the signage need for a lane or a road.
The signage for a bus lane and bus only street are different. Look at the TSGRD to check. It's quite apparent from these postings that the road system in the city centre is a shambles and that the majority of people going into bus lanes/bus only streets are doing so out of confusion. Not flaunting rules.
Yep. I agree that the signs for bus only roads and bus lanes are different and the one on the road shown in the picture is a bus only road, but it is legal in the fact that the signs are there and there are markings on the road. So how is it confusing? The sign says Bus/Cycle/Taxi only and also informs you that they are using cameras so how is it a shambles. The only shambles is on the side of the drivers who drive past signs without looking at them.
If you think the signage is all fine and dandy then try driving along Lower Kirkgate into Market Street - there's no advance warning of the bus only street that is Market Street. And that is only one example of the confusing and unlawful signage we've to put up with. As for the error in the photo. You've had all day to look at it and still not spotted the error ;-)
well spotted.

I have a current appeal ongoing to the adjudicator on precisely that.

A sign is now placed so high and partly obscured by westfields green hoarding that the motorist from lower kirkgate has no advance warning.

And if an inconsiderate bus leaving Market street to go up cheapside forces you at the mini roundabout to take evasive action and into market street you have defence.

I put the ommissions to Highways in July.

still no reply still no alterations to the signage from lower kirkgate.

The Westfield site continues to make the city difficult and trying to pass through.

In Leeds you can pass through the city easily even when there is 100 fold the traffic in Bradford.

Sums the management of the city up really.

Shocking
[quote][p][bold]webess[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Storck[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]webess[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Storck[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]webess[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BigFigure[/bold] wrote: Not sure when the photo above was taken,but now the signage is very clear, including No Entry signs and road markings which clearly guide car drivers around the back of City Hall away from the BUS LANE, which is indicated in big letters...no excuse for getting caught[/p][/quote]Are you sure it's a bus lane and not a bus only street? Also back of City Hall is access only, so hopefully there's not a sign directing drivers to perform an illegal manoeuvre![/p][/quote]If it is access only they should put some signs up. :) It used to be access only but they changed it and took the signs down when they altered the bus lane/ bus only street, not that i'm sure there is any difference in the signage need for a lane or a road.[/p][/quote]The signage for a bus lane and bus only street are different. Look at the TSGRD to check. It's quite apparent from these postings that the road system in the city centre is a shambles and that the majority of people going into bus lanes/bus only streets are doing so out of confusion. Not flaunting rules.[/p][/quote]Yep. I agree that the signs for bus only roads and bus lanes are different and the one on the road shown in the picture is a bus only road, but it is legal in the fact that the signs are there and there are markings on the road. So how is it confusing? The sign says Bus/Cycle/Taxi only and also informs you that they are using cameras so how is it a shambles. The only shambles is on the side of the drivers who drive past signs without looking at them.[/p][/quote]If you think the signage is all fine and dandy then try driving along Lower Kirkgate into Market Street - there's no advance warning of the bus only street that is Market Street. And that is only one example of the confusing and unlawful signage we've to put up with. As for the error in the photo. You've had all day to look at it and still not spotted the error ;-)[/p][/quote]well spotted. I have a current appeal ongoing to the adjudicator on precisely that. A sign is now placed so high and partly obscured by westfields green hoarding that the motorist from lower kirkgate has no advance warning. And if an inconsiderate bus leaving Market street to go up cheapside forces you at the mini roundabout to take evasive action and into market street you have defence. I put the ommissions to Highways in July. still no reply still no alterations to the signage from lower kirkgate. The Westfield site continues to make the city difficult and trying to pass through. In Leeds you can pass through the city easily even when there is 100 fold the traffic in Bradford. Sums the management of the city up really. Shocking alfucham
  • Score: 0

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