Bishop of Bradford leads church attack on PM over welfare cuts 'scandal' (From Bradford Telegraph and Argus)

zippiehippie wrote:
David Ward, Philip Davies, Kris Hopkins - no Labour MPs, T&A? Can't wait to see these three looking for work!

Z.Raja wrote:
Have Bishops and Co. ever thought that the working peoples who are carrying their own burden, are far worse than unemployed. They are paying very heavy cost of unjustified taxes while struggling for their subsistent Bread & Butter.

Cooperlane2 wrote:
Hundreds of thousands of eastern europeans appear to have found work in the last few years. Plus benefits aren't £71pw..there's housing benefits, free prescriptions, subsidies etc What the western world has yet to graps is that inflation-adjusted wages are falling, living standards are falling, and we can't afford high subsidies. Cut the NHS while we are at it...massive spend and it tries to do too much.

undercliffebantam wrote:
What a complete barsteward has he ever tried existing on £71.00 a week its no joke, I can tell you I hope he and the rest of them rot in hell. How long will it take the British public to say this is enough, and do something about it where’s the labour party when you need them?

I suppose the answer is to go and get a job. Of course, those who have actually bothered to look recently will have found THERE ARE NO JOBS

I wonder when the Workhouse will rear its ugly head?

June Oh wrote:
I do not think anyone should starve and be homeless etc. should they not have work or ill etc. but I can't understand getting more in benifits than those working.
Also can't understand all these people from abroad getting benifets and also able to find work.
Where are these 38,000 children in poverty the ones I see all have mobile phones/i-pads and things putting music into thier ears. A long with being in the latest fashion clothes.

fabricator666 wrote:

June Oh wrote: I do not think anyone should starve and be homeless etc. should they not have work or ill etc. but I can't understand getting more in benifits than those working. Also can't understand all these people from abroad getting benifets and also able to find work. Where are these 38,000 children in poverty the ones I see all have mobile phones/i-pads and things putting music into thier ears. A long with being in the latest fashion clothes.

exactly. Nobody is poor in this country. We can all sample it if you like. Vote labour in next time and we'll soon be like Greece/ Portugal etc. Even the former powerhouses of Europe are starting to struggle more than us. We are so lucky we got Brown out in the nick of time. Balls just says what he thinks people want to hear. Balls by name and nature

webess wrote:
The welfare bill is spiralling out of control and does need to be curtailed unless we want to end up like Greece minus the sunshine.

Andy2010 wrote:
Also interesting to note the Church chipping in isnt it with their Billions in cash assets and literally trillions they own in land.

Why dont they do their bit as well

kully wrote:
The coalition goverment has no idea what povert is and how families are managing in these difficult times. Winter fuel allowance goes then how do you expect penioners, who are our most vulnearbale citizen to remain in thier home with heating on. These people could lead to all forms of health difficulties. I fully support the Bishop's call.

webess wrote:

kully wrote: The coalition goverment has no idea what povert is and how families are managing in these difficult times. Winter fuel allowance goes then how do you expect penioners, who are our most vulnearbale citizen to remain in thier home with heating on. These people could lead to all forms of health difficulties. I fully support the Bishop's call.

Winter fuel allowance would be paid to millionaire living in Monaco - time it was cut back and given to those genuinely in need. By the way, many pensioners are very well off and can cope without winter fuel allowance.

Albion. wrote:

Andy2010 wrote: Also interesting to note the Church chipping in isnt it with their Billions in cash assets and literally trillions they own in land. Why dont they do their bit as well

My own thoughts entirely.

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:

webess wrote:

kully wrote: The coalition goverment has no idea what povert is and how families are managing in these difficult times. Winter fuel allowance goes then how do you expect penioners, who are our most vulnearbale citizen to remain in thier home with heating on. These people could lead to all forms of health difficulties. I fully support the Bishop's call.

Winter fuel allowance would be paid to millionaire living in Monaco - time it was cut back and given to those genuinely in need. By the way, many pensioners are very well off and can cope without winter fuel allowance.

I would guess that many who get winter fuel allowance just spend it on other things, there will be some who need it but like mentioned millionaires get it. A working man will have to force out for his own heating bill to keep his child warm during the winter.

thruth9211 wrote:
The benefit system should be changed, to promote work and not just to rely on state benefits

The bishops argunment is pointless.

It seems better not to work than working in this country

Those that dont work get free money, medicine and treatment, and those that work hard every **** day have to pay for their daily living

Food vouchers should be given to those on benefits, as it seem that they have enough money to spend on fags and alcohol

So why should we feel sorry for those on benefits, go to any other country and you wouldnt get benefits like the uk

The NHS is falling apart because people aged 16 + and under 60 will not pay for their medication, but pay for fags. There is no justice for the rest of us

Change the system i say. Those on benefits WORK WORK WORK and repay us back through you TAX

People are born idel, why work if the government pays

Any one who disagree with my statement, are mainly on benefits

"NO SUPRISE THERE"

dellorri wrote:
Boy, you can certainly see who the Con/Dem supporters are on this subject can't you, and of course in their opinion their right, because none of the cuts are going to affect them......yet. But what happens say, when 2015 comes along, and the government goes ahead with its plan to axe housing benefit for under 25's, and your children who are students away from home have to come back to your house and can't stay at uni anymore. What happens when the elderly neighbour you know, who ISN'T a millionaire pensioner (there aren't that many) can't afford her heating and dies of hypothermia. what happens when you need emergency surgery and you're left on a trolley in the corridor for hours waiting and they tell you "sorry it's because of the cutbacks in our finances." these are all thing's which I've seen espoused in the above comments. What happens if one of you god forbid should lose your job through no fault of your own and you consequently can't keep up the mortgage, you lose your house and have to depend on benefits.......But they aren't there??? What then??? think about it. In this day and age of uncertainty. It could quite easily be you.

dellorri wrote:
Boy, you can certainly see who the Con/Dem supporters are on this subject can't you, and of course in their opinion their right, because none of the cuts are going to affect them......yet. But what happens say, when 2015 comes along, and the government goes ahead with its plan to axe housing benefit for under 25's, and your children who are students away from home have to come back to your house and can't stay at uni anymore. What happens when the elderly neighbour you know, who ISN'T a millionaire pensioner (there aren't that many) can't afford her heating and dies of hypothermia. what happens when you need emergency surgery and you're left on a trolley in the corridor for hours waiting and they tell you "sorry it's because of the cutbacks in our finances." these are all thing's which I've seen espoused in the above comments. What happens if one of you god forbid should lose your job through no fault of your own and you consequently can't keep up the mortgage, you lose your house and have to depend on benefits.......But they aren't there??? What then??? think about it. In this day and age of uncertainty. It could quite easily be you.

pellethead wrote:

thruth9211 wrote:
The benefit system should be changed, to promote work and not just to rely on state benefits

The bishops argunment is pointless.

It seems better not to work than working in this country

Those that dont work get free money, medicine and treatment, and those that work hard every **** day have to pay for their daily living

Food vouchers should be given to those on benefits, as it seem that they have enough money to spend on fags and alcohol

So why should we feel sorry for those on benefits, go to any other country and you wouldnt get benefits like the uk

The NHS is falling apart because people aged 16 + and under 60 will not pay for their medication, but pay for fags. There is no justice for the rest of us

Change the system i say. Those on benefits WORK WORK WORK and repay us back through you TAX

People are born idel, why work if the government pays

Any one who disagree with my statement, are mainly on benefits

"NO SUPRISE THERE"

total maximum benefits for a single male looking for a job under 25 living in bradford. JSA £ 56.25. housing benefit £57.73. Council tax benefit assuming living in band a property £ 12.27. total weekly maximum £126.25.

Minimum wage assuming 37.5 hours is £232.
dont tell me most people claiming benefits dont want to work. you are deluded fools.

dellorri wrote:
T.V.O.R. Thanks for the acknowldgement, yes I do tend to harp on about us "spoonies" as some people are now calling us (lovely name eh?) but I can't help it. Now then you assert that HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS are on the fiddle eh? ok, well like I posted on the forum, you may have missed it, here are the official figures from the DWP for the period 2011-2012 for over and underpayment of benefits due to FRAUD and CLAIMANT OR DWP ERROR. The figures dont exacly amount to the colossal figure you claim, please also note this does not include DLA which is widely acknowledged now as having the LOWEST fraud figure of 0.3% annually. you will need Adobe reader to check it but heres the link to the report anyway. dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd2/ fem/nsfr-final-29111 2.pdf

dellorri wrote:
Boy, you can certainly see who the Con/Dem supporters are on this subject can't you, and of course in their opinion their right, because none of the cuts are going to affect them......yet. But what happens say, when 2015 comes along, and the government goes ahead with its plan to axe housing benefit for under 25's, and your children who are students away from home have to come back to your house and can't stay at uni anymore. What happens when the elderly neighbour you know, who ISN'T a millionaire pensioner (there aren't that many) can't afford her heating and dies of hypothermia. what happens when you need emergency surgery and you're left on a trolley in the corridor for hours waiting and they tell you "sorry it's because of the cutbacks in our finances." these are all thing's which I've seen espoused in the above comments. What happens if one of you god forbid should lose your job through no fault of your own and you consequently can't keep up the mortgage, you lose your house and have to depend on benefits.......But they aren't there??? What then??? think about it. In this day and age of uncertainty. It could quite easily be you.

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
Stop the rich parasites from stealing all the wealth. Put a stop to b'stards like Lord Ashcroft, multi-Billionaire who pays no tax. Stop chucking Millions £££ into the pockets of Benefit Scroungers such as Emma Harrison who paid herself £8.6 Million of YOUR money for doing NOTHING. These scroungers are ruining our country.

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
Emma Harrison was paid £8.6 Million as her annual wage, NOT £2.2 Million. She did NOTHING to earn it.

richard grant wrote:
Why is this country giving millions away in foreign aid, and when we are up **** creek without a paddle, and people are relying on food banks, and sleeping rough on the streets? Look at the cost for staying in the EU. Barmy Britain. Wake up.

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
We need an all-out National General Strike. If you have a job then for God's sake JOIN A UNION and GET OUT ON STRIKE BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE !!!! Those on Benefits, DO NOT COMPLY. BOYCOTT THE WORK PROGRAMME !!! END THIS TORY MADNESS !!! RISE UP, PEOPLE OF BRITAIN, RISE UP AND FIGHT FOR YOUR RIGHTS !!!!!

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
Andy, you are a prize pillock. people like you are the problem.

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
Here's some wholesome songs to inspire you: http://youtu.be/qzXk bV4lEKU http://youtu.be/xhjp FBGbtvY Stand up, all victims of oppression For the tyrants fear your might Don't cling so hard to your possessions For you have nothing, if you have no rights Let racist ignorance be ended For respect makes the empires fall Freedom is merely privilege extended Unless enjoyed by one and all. So come brothers and sisters For the struggle carries on The Internationale Unites the world in song So comrades come rally For this is the time and place The international ideal Unites the human race. Let no one build walls to divide us Walls of hatred nor walls of stone Come greet the dawn and stand beside us We'll live together or we'll die alone In our world poisoned by exploitation Those who have taken, now they must give And end the vanity of nations We've one but one Earth on which to live. So come brothers and sisters For the struggle carries on The Internationale Unites the world in song So comrades come rally For this is the time and place The international ideal Unites the human race. And so begins the final drama In the streets and in the fields We stand unbowed before their armour We defy their guns and shields When we fight, provoked by their aggression Let us be inspired by life and love For though they offer us concessions Change will not come from above. http://youtu.be/T2Mp X2GhPZA You can fool some people sometimes, But you can't fool all the people all the time. So now we see the light, We gonna stand up for our rights! http://youtu.be/q7iX cKKpdx0 VIVE LA REVOLUTION !!!

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
Emma Harrison was paid £8.6 Million as her annual wage, NOT £2.2 Million. She did NOTHING to earn it.

Andy2010 wrote:

richard grant wrote:
Why is this country giving millions away in foreign aid, and when we are up **** creek without a paddle, and people are relying on food banks, and sleeping rough on the streets? Look at the cost for staying in the EU. Barmy Britain. Wake up.

I concur

I would suggest voting UKIP (even though i dont)

RollandSmoke wrote:
There's a theme in a lot of posts, I know this bloke, or at least I claim to, and I'm going to use him as an example so as to make a sweeping generalisation about people on benefits. I'm allowed to be a hateful as I want when I'm kicking these people who are down and if I can I'll chuck a bit of racism for good measure. The reason there are SOME people who are better off on benefits than in work is that the wages are crap and fall well short of a living wage leaving many workers still relient on benefits. Until this addressed the walfare bill will continue to rise, not as a result of those out of work but through the increasing numbers of low paid workers who's wages are subsidised by the taxpayer.

RollandSmoke wrote:
There's a theme in a lot of posts, I know this bloke, or at least I claim to, and I'm going to use him as an example so as to make a sweeping generalisation about people on benefits. I'm allowed to be a hateful as I want when I'm kicking these people who are down and if I can I'll chuck a bit of racism for good measure.

The reason there are SOME people who are better off on benefits than in work is that the wages are crap and fall well short of a living wage leaving many workers still relient on benefits. Until this addressed the walfare bill will continue to rise, not as a result of those out of work but through the increasing numbers of low paid workers who's wages are subsidised by the taxpayer.

Andy2010 wrote:

RollandSmoke wrote:
There's a theme in a lot of posts, I know this bloke, or at least I claim to, and I'm going to use him as an example so as to make a sweeping generalisation about people on benefits. I'm allowed to be a hateful as I want when I'm kicking these people who are down and if I can I'll chuck a bit of racism for good measure. The reason there are SOME people who are better off on benefits than in work is that the wages are crap and fall well short of a living wage leaving many workers still relient on benefits. Until this addressed the walfare bill will continue to rise, not as a result of those out of work but through the increasing numbers of low paid workers who's wages are subsidised by the taxpayer.

eh?

I fail to understand your point. Are you saying some workers arent paid enough money?

If this is the case could they not do two jobs ? Could they not retrain or educate themselves to have a better earning potential.

With the recent cut backs on the Tax credits system this has addressed the balaqnce you are stating so I fail to see your point

pellethead wrote:

thruth9211 wrote:
The benefit system should be changed, to promote work and not just to rely on state benefits

The bishops argunment is pointless.

It seems better not to work than working in this country

Those that dont work get free money, medicine and treatment, and those that work hard every **** day have to pay for their daily living

Food vouchers should be given to those on benefits, as it seem that they have enough money to spend on fags and alcohol

So why should we feel sorry for those on benefits, go to any other country and you wouldnt get benefits like the uk

The NHS is falling apart because people aged 16 + and under 60 will not pay for their medication, but pay for fags. There is no justice for the rest of us

Change the system i say. Those on benefits WORK WORK WORK and repay us back through you TAX

People are born idel, why work if the government pays

Any one who disagree with my statement, are mainly on benefits

"NO SUPRISE THERE"

total maximum benefits for a single male looking for a job under 25 living in bradford. JSA £ 56.25. housing benefit £57.73. Council tax benefit assuming living in band a property £ 12.27. total weekly maximum £126.25.

Minimum wage assuming 37.5 hours is £232.
dont tell me most people claiming benefits dont want to work. you are deluded fools.

RollandSmoke wrote:

Andy2010 wrote:

RollandSmoke wrote: There's a theme in a lot of posts, I know this bloke, or at least I claim to, and I'm going to use him as an example so as to make a sweeping generalisation about people on benefits. I'm allowed to be a hateful as I want when I'm kicking these people who are down and if I can I'll chuck a bit of racism for good measure. The reason there are SOME people who are better off on benefits than in work is that the wages are crap and fall well short of a living wage leaving many workers still relient on benefits. Until this addressed the walfare bill will continue to rise, not as a result of those out of work but through the increasing numbers of low paid workers who's wages are subsidised by the taxpayer.

eh? I fail to understand your point. Are you saying some workers arent paid enough money? If this is the case could they not do two jobs ? Could they not retrain or educate themselves to have a better earning potential. With the recent cut backs on the Tax credits system this has addressed the balaqnce you are stating so I fail to see your point

You're not going to make yourself look stupid again are you Andy? Too right I'm saying some workers arn't paid enough. If someone is working full time and the company that employs them is turning over a profit why the hell should he have to be subsidised by the taxpayer or take on a second job? Retraining or education requires a level of education to build on that in many cases our schools have failed to equip them with. They are however easily exploited by the capitalist psychopaths who wouldn't know empathy if it slapped them in the face. In many cases the massive salaries paid at the top pale into insignificance when compaired to their earnings from playing around with accumulated wealth, little of which will ever be scrutinised by the revenue and customs. The average worker has every right to be disgusted at the level of tax they are having to pay but they are miss directing their anger and failing to see the real causes.

undercliffebantam wrote:
Yes Im the problem for working and paying my taxes and bills out of my pocket I think maybe you are right....maybe I am a prize pillock as clearly I would have less hassle in life if I just signed on JSA, claimed housing benefit, Had a couple more kids, claimed Council tax benefit, got free school meals for aforementioned children, free school uniforms and not to mention free medical prescriptions. Dont forget Child Tax Credits.!!!!

Shelfrhino wrote:
Who cares what a bishop, or any other religious leader thinks. Religion is for the weak willed and desperate and their opinion has nothing to do with what goes on in the real world. Here's a few things that should help the country save a few quid for the hard pressed taxpayer. Family allowance should be limited to two kids, if you want more than that, you pay for them. Housing benefit should be slashed, if you can't afford to put a roof over your families head, don't have a family. Disability cars should be done away with, seems like everybody who is related to anyone with a limp is entitled to one. No IVF or other vanity treatments on the NHS. No foreigner who has contributed nothing should be allowed benefits or healthcare. All foreigners convicted of a crime should be deported immediately. All foreign aid to cease immediately. All substance abusers to have all benefits stopped.

Andy2010 wrote:

RollandSmoke wrote:

Andy2010 wrote:

RollandSmoke wrote: There's a theme in a lot of posts, I know this bloke, or at least I claim to, and I'm going to use him as an example so as to make a sweeping generalisation about people on benefits. I'm allowed to be a hateful as I want when I'm kicking these people who are down and if I can I'll chuck a bit of racism for good measure. The reason there are SOME people who are better off on benefits than in work is that the wages are crap and fall well short of a living wage leaving many workers still relient on benefits. Until this addressed the walfare bill will continue to rise, not as a result of those out of work but through the increasing numbers of low paid workers who's wages are subsidised by the taxpayer.

eh? I fail to understand your point. Are you saying some workers arent paid enough money? If this is the case could they not do two jobs ? Could they not retrain or educate themselves to have a better earning potential. With the recent cut backs on the Tax credits system this has addressed the balaqnce you are stating so I fail to see your point

You're not going to make yourself look stupid again are you Andy? Too right I'm saying some workers arn't paid enough. If someone is working full time and the company that employs them is turning over a profit why the hell should he have to be subsidised by the taxpayer or take on a second job? Retraining or education requires a level of education to build on that in many cases our schools have failed to equip them with. They are however easily exploited by the capitalist psychopaths who wouldn't know empathy if it slapped them in the face. In many cases the massive salaries paid at the top pale into insignificance when compaired to their earnings from playing around with accumulated wealth, little of which will ever be scrutinised by the revenue and customs. The average worker has every right to be disgusted at the level of tax they are having to pay but they are miss directing their anger and failing to see the real causes.

well seen as you clearly should work as an Economist

So your point is (just so I understand as you try and make yourself appear to be educated)

1) Workers arent paid enough
2) Schools have failed the aforementioned workers so they have no ability to educate themselves further
3) You claim CEO's or similar standings in companies are overpaid
4) You claim that in your words "the average worker is disgusted at the levels of tax they pay"


Ok lets look at your points

1) Like I said earlier if you are on a low wage you are subsidised by Tax Credits. Most people including myself would agree this is fair as at least they are contributing in one form or another. Now that the scales have also been lowered although not "fair" to some "average" workers I wouldnt say many have a problem with this

2) You claim education has ruined low earners ambition. Sorry but that is complete b0llocks. Everyone in this country gets educated for free to a standard most countries could only dream of. If these students then choose to not build on this this is there problem not the governments or anyone elses.

3) I would argue the point that a lot of high paid executives have worked hard to achieve their standings in a company. Anyone can go into a company and through hard work and training work their way up should they have the will and desire. So I will ask again why shouldnt they be paid more if at the end of the day its them running the business and employing how ever many people.

4) I think most "average" workers arent really disgusted in paying tax. I would argue that the vast majority accept they contribute to society. The welfare state is a great thing and most will agree with this but you know what your "average" worker is sick off...People not pulling their weight because they think the state owes them a living.

Your stance on things just demonstrates you are representing the bone idle of society

Andy2010 wrote:

undercliffebantam wrote:
Yes Im the problem for working and paying my taxes and bills out of my pocket I think maybe you are right....maybe I am a prize pillock as clearly I would have less hassle in life if I just signed on JSA, claimed housing benefit, Had a couple more kids, claimed Council tax benefit, got free school meals for aforementioned children, free school uniforms and not to mention free medical prescriptions. Dont forget Child Tax Credits.!!!!

Sorry forgot that

Oh and also

Expenses paid travelling to and from interviews

Social Fund grants

"Decorating" grants

Legal Aid

Free Dental

Free Vetcare (although why you shoudl have pets when you cant afford it I dont know)

hell I can even get the social to pay for my funeral !

To name a few

Shelfrhino wrote:
Who cares what a bishop, or any other religious leader thinks.
Religion is for the weak willed and desperate and their opinion has nothing to do with what goes on in the real world.

Here's a few things that should help the country save a few quid for the hard pressed taxpayer.

Family allowance should be limited to two kids, if you want more than that, you pay for them.
Housing benefit should be slashed, if you can't afford to put a roof over your families head, don't have a family.
Disability cars should be done away with, seems like everybody who is related to anyone with a limp is entitled to one.
No IVF or other vanity treatments on the NHS.
No foreigner who has contributed nothing should be allowed benefits or healthcare.
All foreigners convicted of a crime should be deported immediately.
All foreign aid to cease immediately.
All substance abusers to have all benefits stopped.

RollandSmoke wrote:

Andy2010 wrote:

RollandSmoke wrote: There's a theme in a lot of posts, I know this bloke, or at least I claim to, and I'm going to use him as an example so as to make a sweeping generalisation about people on benefits. I'm allowed to be a hateful as I want when I'm kicking these people who are down and if I can I'll chuck a bit of racism for good measure. The reason there are SOME people who are better off on benefits than in work is that the wages are crap and fall well short of a living wage leaving many workers still relient on benefits. Until this addressed the walfare bill will continue to rise, not as a result of those out of work but through the increasing numbers of low paid workers who's wages are subsidised by the taxpayer.

eh? I fail to understand your point. Are you saying some workers arent paid enough money? If this is the case could they not do two jobs ? Could they not retrain or educate themselves to have a better earning potential. With the recent cut backs on the Tax credits system this has addressed the balaqnce you are stating so I fail to see your point

You're not going to make yourself look stupid again are you Andy? Too right I'm saying some workers arn't paid enough. If someone is working full time and the company that employs them is turning over a profit why the hell should he have to be subsidised by the taxpayer or take on a second job? Retraining or education requires a level of education to build on that in many cases our schools have failed to equip them with. They are however easily exploited by the capitalist psychopaths who wouldn't know empathy if it slapped them in the face. In many cases the massive salaries paid at the top pale into insignificance when compaired to their earnings from playing around with accumulated wealth, little of which will ever be scrutinised by the revenue and customs. The average worker has every right to be disgusted at the level of tax they are having to pay but they are miss directing their anger and failing to see the real causes.

RollandSmoke wrote:

Andy2010 wrote:

RollandSmoke wrote:

Andy2010 wrote:

RollandSmoke wrote: There's a theme in a lot of posts, I know this bloke, or at least I claim to, and I'm going to use him as an example so as to make a sweeping generalisation about people on benefits. I'm allowed to be a hateful as I want when I'm kicking these people who are down and if I can I'll chuck a bit of racism for good measure. The reason there are SOME people who are better off on benefits than in work is that the wages are crap and fall well short of a living wage leaving many workers still relient on benefits. Until this addressed the walfare bill will continue to rise, not as a result of those out of work but through the increasing numbers of low paid workers who's wages are subsidised by the taxpayer.

eh? I fail to understand your point. Are you saying some workers arent paid enough money? If this is the case could they not do two jobs ? Could they not retrain or educate themselves to have a better earning potential. With the recent cut backs on the Tax credits system this has addressed the balaqnce you are stating so I fail to see your point

You're not going to make yourself look stupid again are you Andy? Too right I'm saying some workers arn't paid enough. If someone is working full time and the company that employs them is turning over a profit why the hell should he have to be subsidised by the taxpayer or take on a second job? Retraining or education requires a level of education to build on that in many cases our schools have failed to equip them with. They are however easily exploited by the capitalist psychopaths who wouldn't know empathy if it slapped them in the face. In many cases the massive salaries paid at the top pale into insignificance when compaired to their earnings from playing around with accumulated wealth, little of which will ever be scrutinised by the revenue and customs. The average worker has every right to be disgusted at the level of tax they are having to pay but they are miss directing their anger and failing to see the real causes.

well seen as you clearly should work as an Economist So your point is (just so I understand as you try and make yourself appear to be educated) 1) Workers arent paid enough 2) Schools have failed the aforementioned workers so they have no ability to educate themselves further 3) You claim CEO's or similar standings in companies are overpaid 4) You claim that in your words "the average worker is disgusted at the levels of tax they pay" Ok lets look at your points 1) Like I said earlier if you are on a low wage you are subsidised by Tax Credits. Most people including myself would agree this is fair as at least they are contributing in one form or another. Now that the scales have also been lowered although not "fair" to some "average" workers I wouldnt say many have a problem with this 2) You claim education has ruined low earners ambition. Sorry but that is complete b0llocks. Everyone in this country gets educated for free to a standard most countries could only dream of. If these students then choose to not build on this this is there problem not the governments or anyone elses. 3) I would argue the point that a lot of high paid executives have worked hard to achieve their standings in a company. Anyone can go into a company and through hard work and training work their way up should they have the will and desire. So I will ask again why shouldnt they be paid more if at the end of the day its them running the business and employing how ever many people. 4) I think most "average" workers arent really disgusted in paying tax. I would argue that the vast majority accept they contribute to society. The welfare state is a great thing and most will agree with this but you know what your "average" worker is sick off...People not pulling their weight because they think the state owes them a living. Your stance on things just demonstrates you are representing the bone idle of society

You truely are a clown 1, if you are in a lowpaid job that leaves you relient on any subsidy from the taxpayer you are clearly underpaid. 2, Again with the generalisations, even with the best access to education there will be significant numbers of underachivers who fail to learn. There is now a £9k a year disincentive to expanding on what education you left school with. 3, I would argue the point that a lot didn't and have got into positions through nepetism or membership of the right Lodge. Your definition of hard work isn't one most workers would recognise especially as you claim that's what you are doing now. Delegating responsibility and raking in a fortune to do it isn't what I call hard work. A real days work would kill them. 4, If they arn't disgusted they should be as the reason they pay so much is so as those with real wealth don't have to.

Parz wrote:

RollandSmoke wrote:

Andy2010 wrote:

RollandSmoke wrote: There's a theme in a lot of posts, I know this bloke, or at least I claim to, and I'm going to use him as an example so as to make a sweeping generalisation about people on benefits. I'm allowed to be a hateful as I want when I'm kicking these people who are down and if I can I'll chuck a bit of racism for good measure. The reason there are SOME people who are better off on benefits than in work is that the wages are crap and fall well short of a living wage leaving many workers still relient on benefits. Until this addressed the walfare bill will continue to rise, not as a result of those out of work but through the increasing numbers of low paid workers who's wages are subsidised by the taxpayer.

eh? I fail to understand your point. Are you saying some workers arent paid enough money? If this is the case could they not do two jobs ? Could they not retrain or educate themselves to have a better earning potential. With the recent cut backs on the Tax credits system this has addressed the balaqnce you are stating so I fail to see your point

You're not going to make yourself look stupid again are you Andy? Too right I'm saying some workers arn't paid enough. If someone is working full time and the company that employs them is turning over a profit why the hell should he have to be subsidised by the taxpayer or take on a second job? Retraining or education requires a level of education to build on that in many cases our schools have failed to equip them with. They are however easily exploited by the capitalist psychopaths who wouldn't know empathy if it slapped them in the face. In many cases the massive salaries paid at the top pale into insignificance when compaired to their earnings from playing around with accumulated wealth, little of which will ever be scrutinised by the revenue and customs. The average worker has every right to be disgusted at the level of tax they are having to pay but they are miss directing their anger and failing to see the real causes.

"a level of education to build on that in many cases our schools have failed to equip them with"... Utter ****. I attended the school that was where the Bradford Academy is now (it was at the time BCCC, some people will remember it as Fairfax) which was repeatedly condemned as one of the worst schools in Bradford, if not the country. Yet I came away with a decent job. why/ Because I worked my arse off through school and afterwards to makre sure I did. You can't blame schools for the legions of feckless layabouts we have scrounging a living off my taxes. These sorts of people are the ones that did absolutely f**k all when they were growing up to ensure they had a secure future and now they expect the state to provide for them. Before anyone rips my head off, I'm not talking about people who are genuinely unable to work (through disablility etc) OR people who have lost thier jobs due to the economic climate and are searching for another. The people I'm talking about are the ones who would rather live off the state than drag thier sorry backsides out to a job because it's hard work. or the types who decide they don't want to do the jobs that are there because they're too good for that job. There is no reason why these people can't re-train for a profession other that utter bone idleness. Start putting some effort in and improve your life yourself.

RollandSmoke wrote:

Shelfrhino wrote:
Who cares what a bishop, or any other religious leader thinks.
Religion is for the weak willed and desperate and their opinion has nothing to do with what goes on in the real world.

Here's a few things that should help the country save a few quid for the hard pressed taxpayer.

Family allowance should be limited to two kids, if you want more than that, you pay for them.
Housing benefit should be slashed, if you can't afford to put a roof over your families head, don't have a family.
Disability cars should be done away with, seems like everybody who is related to anyone with a limp is entitled to one.
No IVF or other vanity treatments on the NHS.
No foreigner who has contributed nothing should be allowed benefits or healthcare.
All foreigners convicted of a crime should be deported immediately.
All foreign aid to cease immediately.
All substance abusers to have all benefits stopped.

I wonder what that rant would sound like in German? Is this your final solution or just a work in progress?

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
No matter what all the Right-wing reactionaries and materialists rant and ramble on about, the fact remains that the good Bishop is entirely justified in his scathing criticism of the Tory-lead shambles of a Coalition and their evil and entirely vindictive attack on the poor. After all, Jesus was the original Socialist, and as it says in the Bible; "man cannot serve two masters...Ye cannot serve God and mammon." ( KJ Matthew 6:24) So a big well done and thank you to Bishop Baines for remaining loyal to his Christian beliefs and bravely taking a firm and righteous stance against the Beast that is Capitalism.

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
Andy, there is no "pretencve" about the existence of God, as I have informed you previously when I revealed to you the proof.

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
I feel sorry for the poor Council workers, those who have already lost their jobs and those who are left behind somehow running the show whilst worrying about their jobs too. The Tories and their Lib counterparts are causing absolute chaos in this country. They have a lot to answer for already, but no one will forget this criminally insane Government for a very long time to come. This is probably THE worst government in England ever, or at least going right back to King John and his Norman Barons. They are pure evil and we must all do our bit to resist them at all costs. The very future of England depends upon it.

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
Andy, there is no "pretencve" about the existence of God, as I have informed you previously when I revealed to you the proof.

cheeky1 wrote:
All the people who hate paying taxes for people on benefit...does this mean you also hate paying taxes to keep one of the biggest scronger and her family? The queen?

Andy2010 wrote:

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
Andy, you are a prize pillock. people like you are the problem.

Yes Im the problem for working and paying my taxes and bills out of my pocket

I think maybe you are right....maybe I am a prize pillock as clearly I would have less hassle in life if I just signed on JSA, claimed housing benefit, Had a couple more kids, claimed Council tax benefit, got free school meals for aforementioned children, free school uniforms and not to mention free medical prescriptions.

Indeed each day I think I made the wrong choice in life to work hard and provide for my family when clearly I could have acted like yourself, just churned out loads of kids, claimed everything under the sun, voted Labour and then spent most of my days moaning that I wanted more

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
Brannigan says...

"There is no-one actually living in real poverty in the UK except for the rare occasion when someone slips the net."

WRONG, very wrong. There are many thousands struggling to exist. People I personally know, often myself included, do not have sufficient food to eat or money to pay for gas/electricity. It is YOU who are completely out of touch, not the Church. You don't have a clue mate.

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
"Are there no Workhouses, are there no prisons?"

SHAME ON YOU WHO DENY THE TRUTH.

Brannigan wrote:
The church leaders are well meaning but woefully out of touch. The UK is the world leader in welfare provision. No other country provides such welfare support for their own citizens and certainly not for migrants. There is no-one actually living in real poverty in the UK except for the rare occasion when someone slips the net. Just because you cannot afford cigarettes and beer every day and you haven't got the latest 50" plasma tv does not mean you are in poverty. There is only so much money in the welfare purse. The real problem is the number of people who are cheating and taking more that their fair share. Spare a thought also for the people who do not claim any welfare benefits and support their own families. In these times of austerity they are also finding life difficult but who is going to speak for them or give them any support.

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
"And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."

Matthew 19:24


Plea for food aid as child poverty soars in Bradford

http://www.thetelegr

aphandargus.co.uk/ne

ws/9932227.Plea_for_

food_aid_as_child_po

verty_soars_in_Bradf

ord/


Sunday Times Rich List suggests UK's wealthiest defy recession

http://www.bbc.co.uk

/news/uk-17883101


The Sunday Times Rich List

http://www.thesunday

times.co.uk/sto/publ

ic/richlist/

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
Oh, and...just LOL @ Shelfrhino !

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
Oh, and...just LOL @ Shelfrhino !

Shelfrhino wrote:

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
Oh, and...just LOL @ Shelfrhino !

Hopefully plenty to smile about on Wednesday when George slashes a few more billion off the welfare bill and give us hard working tax payers a break.
When the welfare state first came into being it required 5% on GDP to provide for it, now it is nearer to 15% and it's about time the balance was redressed.

Shelfrhino wrote:

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
Oh, and...just LOL @ Shelfrhino !

Hopefully plenty to smile about on Wednesday when George slashes a few more billion off the welfare bill and give us hard working tax payers a break.
When the welfare state first came into being it required 5% on GDP to provide for it, now it is nearer to 15% and it's about time the balance was redressed.

undercliffebantam wrote:
What a complete barsteward has he ever tried existing on £71.00 a week its no joke, I can tell you I hope he and the rest of them rot in hell. How long will it take the British public to say this is enough, and do something about it where’s the labour party when you need them?

I suppose the answer is to go and get a job. Of course, those who have actually bothered to look recently will have found THERE ARE NO JOBS

I wonder when the Workhouse will rear its ugly head?

allannicho wrote:
Child benefit and housing allowance
Must be a tidy sum in Bradford?

markjoe wrote:

pellethead wrote:

thruth9211 wrote:
The benefit system should be changed, to promote work and not just to rely on state benefits

The bishops argunment is pointless.

It seems better not to work than working in this country

Those that dont work get free money, medicine and treatment, and those that work hard every **** day have to pay for their daily living

Food vouchers should be given to those on benefits, as it seem that they have enough money to spend on fags and alcohol

So why should we feel sorry for those on benefits, go to any other country and you wouldnt get benefits like the uk

The NHS is falling apart because people aged 16 + and under 60 will not pay for their medication, but pay for fags. There is no justice for the rest of us

Change the system i say. Those on benefits WORK WORK WORK and repay us back through you TAX

People are born idel, why work if the government pays

Any one who disagree with my statement, are mainly on benefits

"NO SUPRISE THERE"

total maximum benefits for a single male looking for a job under 25 living in bradford. JSA £ 56.25. housing benefit £57.73. Council tax benefit assuming living in band a property £ 12.27. total weekly maximum £126.25.

Minimum wage assuming 37.5 hours is £232.
dont tell me most people claiming benefits dont want to work. you are deluded fools.

Out of that £232 you've got to take the Tax & NI off, then there is travel to and from work, council tax, rent/mortgage, prescription charges, dentist charges.

Shelfrhino wrote:
Who cares what a bishop, or any other religious leader thinks.
Religion is for the weak willed and desperate and their opinion has nothing to do with what goes on in the real world.

Here's a few things that should help the country save a few quid for the hard pressed taxpayer.

Family allowance should be limited to two kids, if you want more than that, you pay for them.
Housing benefit should be slashed, if you can't afford to put a roof over your families head, don't have a family.
Disability cars should be done away with, seems like everybody who is related to anyone with a limp is entitled to one.
No IVF or other vanity treatments on the NHS.
No foreigner who has contributed nothing should be allowed benefits or healthcare.
All foreigners convicted of a crime should be deported immediately.
All foreign aid to cease immediately.
All substance abusers to have all benefits stopped.

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
@ SinnerSaint

Up yours, moron.

RollandSmoke wrote:
The solutions offered by the rabid cap doffers would create work. More work for the NHS as they deal with the problems caused by malnutrition and bad diet. More work for the police when some refuse to starve and turn to crime. More work for the funeral directors and grave diggers when people either starve or freeze to death. It wouldn't get many unemployed into work however although more would end up on the sick and the jobseekers that remain would not have the fitness levels to take on much work. All the services that would see an upturn in their workload are taxpayer funded so the policies they advocate would actually see them paying more tax. Their total inability to see this bigger picture just goes to show that the rabid right are thick as.... although some are perfectly aware that all that would happen is that some would suffer extreme hardship and it amuses them because they are sick in the head.

RollandSmoke wrote:
The solutions offered by the rabid cap doffers would create work. More work for the NHS as they deal with the problems caused by malnutrition and bad diet. More work for the police when some refuse to starve and turn to crime. More work for the funeral directors and grave diggers when people either starve or freeze to death. It wouldn't get many unemployed into work however although more would end up on the sick and the jobseekers that remain would not have the fitness levels to take on much work. All the services that would see an upturn in their workload are taxpayer funded so the policies they advocate would actually see them paying more tax. Their total inability to see this bigger picture just goes to show that the rabid right are thick as.... although some are perfectly aware that all that would happen is that some would suffer extreme hardship and it amuses them because they are sick in the head.

Andy2010 wrote:

RollandSmoke wrote:
The solutions offered by the rabid cap doffers would create work. More work for the NHS as they deal with the problems caused by malnutrition and bad diet. More work for the police when some refuse to starve and turn to crime. More work for the funeral directors and grave diggers when people either starve or freeze to death. It wouldn't get many unemployed into work however although more would end up on the sick and the jobseekers that remain would not have the fitness levels to take on much work. All the services that would see an upturn in their workload are taxpayer funded so the policies they advocate would actually see them paying more tax. Their total inability to see this bigger picture just goes to show that the rabid right are thick as.... although some are perfectly aware that all that would happen is that some would suffer extreme hardship and it amuses them because they are sick in the head.

You like really pushing the boundaries of reality dont ya

You make it sound like with these cut backs and future ones people are going to be starving and everyone out of work is going to be sleeping rough..grow up

Top and bottom of it even on the basic £70 a week handout thats plenty to feed yourself and pay for utilities. If its not please show me how not

Im sure the real starving people in parts of the world would be insulted at your suggestion that those in the UK who get a house, taxes paid and money every week for doing nothing are suffering

RollandSmoke wrote:

Andy2010 wrote:

RollandSmoke wrote: The solutions offered by the rabid cap doffers would create work. More work for the NHS as they deal with the problems caused by malnutrition and bad diet. More work for the police when some refuse to starve and turn to crime. More work for the funeral directors and grave diggers when people either starve or freeze to death. It wouldn't get many unemployed into work however although more would end up on the sick and the jobseekers that remain would not have the fitness levels to take on much work. All the services that would see an upturn in their workload are taxpayer funded so the policies they advocate would actually see them paying more tax. Their total inability to see this bigger picture just goes to show that the rabid right are thick as.... although some are perfectly aware that all that would happen is that some would suffer extreme hardship and it amuses them because they are sick in the head.

You like really pushing the boundaries of reality dont ya You make it sound like with these cut backs and future ones people are going to be starving and everyone out of work is going to be sleeping rough..grow up Top and bottom of it even on the basic £70 a week handout thats plenty to feed yourself and pay for utilities. If its not please show me how not Im sure the real starving people in parts of the world would be insulted at your suggestion that those in the UK who get a house, taxes paid and money every week for doing nothing are suffering

Do the regular stories about the food banks seeing more and more people being refered to them pass you by? Do the ever increasing costs of basic utilities and food have no effect? As I've said to you before you arn't paying for them to have any sort of life you are paying so as they can hand their money over to utility companies in order to survive and that money goes into the pockets of shareholders. I won't waste any further time responding to you Andy as your blinkers are on way too tight and it's restricting the blood flow to your brain. There is one word to describe the mindset of yourself and others on here, evil, and I'm not going to remain silent while people like yourself call for children to be made to suffer for the failure of government and the safety net to be pulled out from beneath those increasing numbers of people who are falling, again due to a sick ideology that see people as nothing more than a commodity to be traded as cheaply as possible. You might be an "I'm all right Jack" but your not right in the head.

Andy2010 wrote:

RollandSmoke wrote:

Andy2010 wrote:

RollandSmoke wrote: The solutions offered by the rabid cap doffers would create work. More work for the NHS as they deal with the problems caused by malnutrition and bad diet. More work for the police when some refuse to starve and turn to crime. More work for the funeral directors and grave diggers when people either starve or freeze to death. It wouldn't get many unemployed into work however although more would end up on the sick and the jobseekers that remain would not have the fitness levels to take on much work. All the services that would see an upturn in their workload are taxpayer funded so the policies they advocate would actually see them paying more tax. Their total inability to see this bigger picture just goes to show that the rabid right are thick as.... although some are perfectly aware that all that would happen is that some would suffer extreme hardship and it amuses them because they are sick in the head.

You like really pushing the boundaries of reality dont ya You make it sound like with these cut backs and future ones people are going to be starving and everyone out of work is going to be sleeping rough..grow up Top and bottom of it even on the basic £70 a week handout thats plenty to feed yourself and pay for utilities. If its not please show me how not Im sure the real starving people in parts of the world would be insulted at your suggestion that those in the UK who get a house, taxes paid and money every week for doing nothing are suffering

Do the regular stories about the food banks seeing more and more people being refered to them pass you by? Do the ever increasing costs of basic utilities and food have no effect? As I've said to you before you arn't paying for them to have any sort of life you are paying so as they can hand their money over to utility companies in order to survive and that money goes into the pockets of shareholders. I won't waste any further time responding to you Andy as your blinkers are on way too tight and it's restricting the blood flow to your brain. There is one word to describe the mindset of yourself and others on here, evil, and I'm not going to remain silent while people like yourself call for children to be made to suffer for the failure of government and the safety net to be pulled out from beneath those increasing numbers of people who are falling, again due to a sick ideology that see people as nothing more than a commodity to be traded as cheaply as possible. You might be an "I'm all right Jack" but your not right in the head.

I would agree food banks are on the increase but look closer at their "customers". 90% of food handed out at food banks goes to families where 1 or more have substance abuse problems so the money they receive from the state is being used not as intended.

I fail to see your arguement about benefit money being spent on Utilities...so what ? Are you suggesting that all benefits claimants shoudl now get free gas, electric and water ?

I think the amount you smoke has clearly effected your judgement when it comes to day to day life. I would try going sober for a bit and clear your head. It might give you the enthusiasm to make something something of your life

RollandSmoke wrote:

Andy2010 wrote:

RollandSmoke wrote:

Andy2010 wrote:

RollandSmoke wrote: The solutions offered by the rabid cap doffers would create work. More work for the NHS as they deal with the problems caused by malnutrition and bad diet. More work for the police when some refuse to starve and turn to crime. More work for the funeral directors and grave diggers when people either starve or freeze to death. It wouldn't get many unemployed into work however although more would end up on the sick and the jobseekers that remain would not have the fitness levels to take on much work. All the services that would see an upturn in their workload are taxpayer funded so the policies they advocate would actually see them paying more tax. Their total inability to see this bigger picture just goes to show that the rabid right are thick as.... although some are perfectly aware that all that would happen is that some would suffer extreme hardship and it amuses them because they are sick in the head.

You like really pushing the boundaries of reality dont ya You make it sound like with these cut backs and future ones people are going to be starving and everyone out of work is going to be sleeping rough..grow up Top and bottom of it even on the basic £70 a week handout thats plenty to feed yourself and pay for utilities. If its not please show me how not Im sure the real starving people in parts of the world would be insulted at your suggestion that those in the UK who get a house, taxes paid and money every week for doing nothing are suffering

Do the regular stories about the food banks seeing more and more people being refered to them pass you by? Do the ever increasing costs of basic utilities and food have no effect? As I've said to you before you arn't paying for them to have any sort of life you are paying so as they can hand their money over to utility companies in order to survive and that money goes into the pockets of shareholders. I won't waste any further time responding to you Andy as your blinkers are on way too tight and it's restricting the blood flow to your brain. There is one word to describe the mindset of yourself and others on here, evil, and I'm not going to remain silent while people like yourself call for children to be made to suffer for the failure of government and the safety net to be pulled out from beneath those increasing numbers of people who are falling, again due to a sick ideology that see people as nothing more than a commodity to be traded as cheaply as possible. You might be an "I'm all right Jack" but your not right in the head.

I would agree food banks are on the increase but look closer at their "customers". 90% of food handed out at food banks goes to families where 1 or more have substance abuse problems so the money they receive from the state is being used not as intended. I fail to see your arguement about benefit money being spent on Utilities...so what ? Are you suggesting that all benefits claimants shoudl now get free gas, electric and water ? I think the amount you smoke has clearly effected your judgement when it comes to day to day life. I would try going sober for a bit and clear your head. It might give you the enthusiasm to make something something of your life

Ok one last reply. Back up your slanderous claim that 90% of food bank clients have substance abuse problem as I think you've pulled the figure from the same orifice that you talk out of. You fail to see anyones point but I think that reflects more on you than it does the posters making the points. Your assumptions about me are way off the mark but who can begrude you your prejudices? These low blows are merely a sign that, on a subconscious level at least, you realise your loosing the argument.

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
WHERE IS YOUR COMPASSION? WHERE IS YOUR EMPATHY FOR YOUR FELLOW MAN? ALL YOU RIGHT-WING NUTTERS SHOULD HANG YOUR HEADS IN SHAME, YOU ARE A DISGRACE TO MANKIND. GOD BLESS THE BISHOP FOR SPEAKING OUT AGAINST THIS WICKED GOVERNMENT.

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
BOYCOTT WORKFARE: http://www.boycottwo rkfare.org

Andy2010 wrote:

RollandSmoke wrote:

Andy2010 wrote:

RollandSmoke wrote:

Andy2010 wrote:

RollandSmoke wrote: The solutions offered by the rabid cap doffers would create work. More work for the NHS as they deal with the problems caused by malnutrition and bad diet. More work for the police when some refuse to starve and turn to crime. More work for the funeral directors and grave diggers when people either starve or freeze to death. It wouldn't get many unemployed into work however although more would end up on the sick and the jobseekers that remain would not have the fitness levels to take on much work. All the services that would see an upturn in their workload are taxpayer funded so the policies they advocate would actually see them paying more tax. Their total inability to see this bigger picture just goes to show that the rabid right are thick as.... although some are perfectly aware that all that would happen is that some would suffer extreme hardship and it amuses them because they are sick in the head.

You like really pushing the boundaries of reality dont ya You make it sound like with these cut backs and future ones people are going to be starving and everyone out of work is going to be sleeping rough..grow up Top and bottom of it even on the basic £70 a week handout thats plenty to feed yourself and pay for utilities. If its not please show me how not Im sure the real starving people in parts of the world would be insulted at your suggestion that those in the UK who get a house, taxes paid and money every week for doing nothing are suffering

Do the regular stories about the food banks seeing more and more people being refered to them pass you by? Do the ever increasing costs of basic utilities and food have no effect? As I've said to you before you arn't paying for them to have any sort of life you are paying so as they can hand their money over to utility companies in order to survive and that money goes into the pockets of shareholders. I won't waste any further time responding to you Andy as your blinkers are on way too tight and it's restricting the blood flow to your brain. There is one word to describe the mindset of yourself and others on here, evil, and I'm not going to remain silent while people like yourself call for children to be made to suffer for the failure of government and the safety net to be pulled out from beneath those increasing numbers of people who are falling, again due to a sick ideology that see people as nothing more than a commodity to be traded as cheaply as possible. You might be an "I'm all right Jack" but your not right in the head.

I would agree food banks are on the increase but look closer at their "customers". 90% of food handed out at food banks goes to families where 1 or more have substance abuse problems so the money they receive from the state is being used not as intended. I fail to see your arguement about benefit money being spent on Utilities...so what ? Are you suggesting that all benefits claimants shoudl now get free gas, electric and water ? I think the amount you smoke has clearly effected your judgement when it comes to day to day life. I would try going sober for a bit and clear your head. It might give you the enthusiasm to make something something of your life

Ok one last reply. Back up your slanderous claim that 90% of food bank clients have substance abuse problem as I think you've pulled the figure from the same orifice that you talk out of. You fail to see anyones point but I think that reflects more on you than it does the posters making the points. Your assumptions about me are way off the mark but who can begrude you your prejudices? These low blows are merely a sign that, on a subconscious level at least, you realise your loosing the argument.

I didnt realise we were having an arguement but clearly that is your understanding

My point is and will remain the same is that and as you will see from other posters that the majority of hard working people not just in Bradford but in the UK are sick the back teeth of people taking quite frankly the p1ss with the benefits system. Im sure Im not alone in thinking that some (yes some not all) benefit claimants think it is their right to live off the state with zero input into the system. For the rest of us that work extremely hard to provide the basics for our families Im sure even you can understand our grievance here. No-one will dispute that the benefit system is needed for short term help only but some who have lived this way for many years are the element of society we are sick of.

On the original story though do you honestly expect sympathy on the basis that benefits may be cut? You sweeping statements about people dying of starvation of becoming homeless are quite frankly ridiculous in this country as simply does not happen.

I like many others think benefits should not only be cut but also should be given in form of food vouchers to make sure are spent for what they are intended. Maybe then and only then will these claimants realise that they will be better off working and pull their weight

Of course feel free to disagree that is your right but dont knock myself and others down for simply having a different view of the benefit system

RollandSmoke wrote:

Andy2010 wrote:

RollandSmoke wrote:

Andy2010 wrote:

RollandSmoke wrote:

Andy2010 wrote:

RollandSmoke wrote: The solutions offered by the rabid cap doffers would create work. More work for the NHS as they deal with the problems caused by malnutrition and bad diet. More work for the police when some refuse to starve and turn to crime. More work for the funeral directors and grave diggers when people either starve or freeze to death. It wouldn't get many unemployed into work however although more would end up on the sick and the jobseekers that remain would not have the fitness levels to take on much work. All the services that would see an upturn in their workload are taxpayer funded so the policies they advocate would actually see them paying more tax. Their total inability to see this bigger picture just goes to show that the rabid right are thick as.... although some are perfectly aware that all that would happen is that some would suffer extreme hardship and it amuses them because they are sick in the head.

You like really pushing the boundaries of reality dont ya You make it sound like with these cut backs and future ones people are going to be starving and everyone out of work is going to be sleeping rough..grow up Top and bottom of it even on the basic £70 a week handout thats plenty to feed yourself and pay for utilities. If its not please show me how not Im sure the real starving people in parts of the world would be insulted at your suggestion that those in the UK who get a house, taxes paid and money every week for doing nothing are suffering

Do the regular stories about the food banks seeing more and more people being refered to them pass you by? Do the ever increasing costs of basic utilities and food have no effect? As I've said to you before you arn't paying for them to have any sort of life you are paying so as they can hand their money over to utility companies in order to survive and that money goes into the pockets of shareholders. I won't waste any further time responding to you Andy as your blinkers are on way too tight and it's restricting the blood flow to your brain. There is one word to describe the mindset of yourself and others on here, evil, and I'm not going to remain silent while people like yourself call for children to be made to suffer for the failure of government and the safety net to be pulled out from beneath those increasing numbers of people who are falling, again due to a sick ideology that see people as nothing more than a commodity to be traded as cheaply as possible. You might be an "I'm all right Jack" but your not right in the head.

I would agree food banks are on the increase but look closer at their "customers". 90% of food handed out at food banks goes to families where 1 or more have substance abuse problems so the money they receive from the state is being used not as intended. I fail to see your arguement about benefit money being spent on Utilities...so what ? Are you suggesting that all benefits claimants shoudl now get free gas, electric and water ? I think the amount you smoke has clearly effected your judgement when it comes to day to day life. I would try going sober for a bit and clear your head. It might give you the enthusiasm to make something something of your life

Ok one last reply. Back up your slanderous claim that 90% of food bank clients have substance abuse problem as I think you've pulled the figure from the same orifice that you talk out of. You fail to see anyones point but I think that reflects more on you than it does the posters making the points. Your assumptions about me are way off the mark but who can begrude you your prejudices? These low blows are merely a sign that, on a subconscious level at least, you realise your loosing the argument.

I didnt realise we were having an arguement but clearly that is your understanding My point is and will remain the same is that and as you will see from other posters that the majority of hard working people not just in Bradford but in the UK are sick the back teeth of people taking quite frankly the p1ss with the benefits system. Im sure Im not alone in thinking that some (yes some not all) benefit claimants think it is their right to live off the state with zero input into the system. For the rest of us that work extremely hard to provide the basics for our families Im sure even you can understand our grievance here. No-one will dispute that the benefit system is needed for short term help only but some who have lived this way for many years are the element of society we are sick of. On the original story though do you honestly expect sympathy on the basis that benefits may be cut? You sweeping statements about people dying of starvation of becoming homeless are quite frankly ridiculous in this country as simply does not happen. I like many others think benefits should not only be cut but also should be given in form of food vouchers to make sure are spent for what they are intended. Maybe then and only then will these claimants realise that they will be better off working and pull their weight Of course feel free to disagree that is your right but dont knock myself and others down for simply having a different view of the benefit system

Yes at the moment it doesn't happen often but when you cut away at the small amount that people do get to survive it will. Now if the news was full of stories of vast numbers of jobs being created as apposed to vast numbers being lost then yes I could understand your constant attacks on benefit claimants. I'm sure there are a few examples where there are people who take the P but the generalisations thrown at ALL benefit claimants are akin to the other lie that we hear on here regularly that ALL Muslims are extreamist terrorists that mean us harm.

The Hump wrote:
A family friend we have known for years was claiming incapacity benefit, he suffered abuse as a child and he was left very traumatized and had some severe mental health problems, we looked after him visiting him and taking him on shopping trips and doing what we could to help,if we didnt he would literally never have any human contact with any one, he was a nervous wreck, he got called to the medical and failed because the questions dont cover mental health, he was found hanging last week.

RollandSmoke wrote:

The Hump wrote: A family friend we have known for years was claiming incapacity benefit, he suffered abuse as a child and he was left very traumatized and had some severe mental health problems, we looked after him visiting him and taking him on shopping trips and doing what we could to help,if we didnt he would literally never have any human contact with any one, he was a nervous wreck, he got called to the medical and failed because the questions dont cover mental health, he was found hanging last week.

I wish this was an isolated incident but it's not. Here are the governments own figures. This is what ATOS is getting paid £100m a year for. "In total, between January 2011 and November 2011, some 10,600 claims ended and a date of death was recorded within six weeks of the claim end". http://statistics.dw p.gov.uk/asd/asd1/ad hoc_analysis/2012/in cap_decd_recips_0712 .pdf

Andy2010 wrote:

RollandSmoke wrote:

The Hump wrote: A family friend we have known for years was claiming incapacity benefit, he suffered abuse as a child and he was left very traumatized and had some severe mental health problems, we looked after him visiting him and taking him on shopping trips and doing what we could to help,if we didnt he would literally never have any human contact with any one, he was a nervous wreck, he got called to the medical and failed because the questions dont cover mental health, he was found hanging last week.

I wish this was an isolated incident but it's not. Here are the governments own figures. This is what ATOS is getting paid £100m a year for. "In total, between January 2011 and November 2011, some 10,600 claims ended and a date of death was recorded within six weeks of the claim end". http://statistics.dw p.gov.uk/asd/asd1/ad hoc_analysis/2012/in cap_decd_recips_0712 .pdf

Numbers and stats can mean anything..note the below from the report

"The analysis below covers all cases where a date of death is given, whether or not the cause of death is related to the health issues leading to the incapacity benefit award. It would be expected that the mortality rate amongst those on incapacity benefits recipients would be higher than that in the general population as some people receive incapacity benefits due to life-threatening conditions or terminal illness."

Those statistics are actually in line with the norm and nothing to do with withdrawal of benefits if you look into it closer

I wonder how many people also died whilst were employed?

Bet it was a hell of a lot more therefore this actually means nothing

RollandSmoke wrote:

Andy2010 wrote:

RollandSmoke wrote:

The Hump wrote: A family friend we have known for years was claiming incapacity benefit, he suffered abuse as a child and he was left very traumatized and had some severe mental health problems, we looked after him visiting him and taking him on shopping trips and doing what we could to help,if we didnt he would literally never have any human contact with any one, he was a nervous wreck, he got called to the medical and failed because the questions dont cover mental health, he was found hanging last week.

I wish this was an isolated incident but it's not. Here are the governments own figures. This is what ATOS is getting paid £100m a year for. "In total, between January 2011 and November 2011, some 10,600 claims ended and a date of death was recorded within six weeks of the claim end". http://statistics.dw p.gov.uk/asd/asd1/ad hoc_analysis/2012/in cap_decd_recips_0712 .pdf

Numbers and stats can mean anything..note the below from the report "The analysis below covers all cases where a date of death is given, whether or not the cause of death is related to the health issues leading to the incapacity benefit award. It would be expected that the mortality rate amongst those on incapacity benefits recipients would be higher than that in the general population as some people receive incapacity benefits due to life-threatening conditions or terminal illness." Those statistics are actually in line with the norm and nothing to do with withdrawal of benefits if you look into it closer I wonder how many people also died whilst were employed? Bet it was a hell of a lot more therefore this actually means nothing

"It would be expected that the mortality rate amongst those on incapacity benefits recipients would be higher than that in the general population as some people receive incapacity benefits due to life-threatening conditions or terminal illness." So what the hell is ATOS doing finding these people "fit for work"? If your going to throw figures about please quote your sorces preferably with a link as it stops you getting the repeated accusation of making it up as you go along as in the case of the 90% of food bank clients that you claim have substance abuse problems. How many deaths do you see as acceptable?

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
The so-called 'austerity measures' and Welafre reforms are all about population reduction. The Powers that Be want to kill off as many poor people as possible. The people in power serve the Anti-Christ.

Albion. wrote:

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
The so-called 'austerity measures' and Welafre reforms are all about population reduction. The Powers that Be want to kill off as many poor people as possible. The people in power serve the Anti-Christ.

Do you mean the Pope?

Andy2010 wrote:

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
BOYCOTT WORKFARE: http://www.boycottwo rkfare.org

Yes boycott work

Lets all just sit on our 4rses watching tv all day

Thats how to sort out the economy

Idiot

Andy2010 wrote:

RollandSmoke wrote:

Andy2010 wrote:

RollandSmoke wrote:

The Hump wrote: A family friend we have known for years was claiming incapacity benefit, he suffered abuse as a child and he was left very traumatized and had some severe mental health problems, we looked after him visiting him and taking him on shopping trips and doing what we could to help,if we didnt he would literally never have any human contact with any one, he was a nervous wreck, he got called to the medical and failed because the questions dont cover mental health, he was found hanging last week.

I wish this was an isolated incident but it's not. Here are the governments own figures. This is what ATOS is getting paid £100m a year for. "In total, between January 2011 and November 2011, some 10,600 claims ended and a date of death was recorded within six weeks of the claim end". http://statistics.dw p.gov.uk/asd/asd1/ad hoc_analysis/2012/in cap_decd_recips_0712 .pdf

Numbers and stats can mean anything..note the below from the report "The analysis below covers all cases where a date of death is given, whether or not the cause of death is related to the health issues leading to the incapacity benefit award. It would be expected that the mortality rate amongst those on incapacity benefits recipients would be higher than that in the general population as some people receive incapacity benefits due to life-threatening conditions or terminal illness." Those statistics are actually in line with the norm and nothing to do with withdrawal of benefits if you look into it closer I wonder how many people also died whilst were employed? Bet it was a hell of a lot more therefore this actually means nothing

"It would be expected that the mortality rate amongst those on incapacity benefits recipients would be higher than that in the general population as some people receive incapacity benefits due to life-threatening conditions or terminal illness." So what the hell is ATOS doing finding these people "fit for work"? If your going to throw figures about please quote your sorces preferably with a link as it stops you getting the repeated accusation of making it up as you go along as in the case of the 90% of food bank clients that you claim have substance abuse problems. How many deaths do you see as acceptable?

Urm my quote came from the report you linked above so your source not mine

Or do you do what so many do and just cherry pick information without looking into it

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
New figures from Crisis show the number of homeless people in England has risen by 23%. "Homelessness in England has risen by almost a quarter, according to the charity Crisis. They say unemployment, the housing market and welfare cuts are to blame." http://www.bbc.co.uk /newsbeat/20603206

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
"Sell your possessions, give the money to the poor, and come follow me"

Jesus Christ

Albion. wrote:

Another Landless Peasant wrote: "Sell your possessions, give the money to the poor, and come follow me" Jesus Christ

And look what happened to him!

Cityman23 wrote:
In the present circumstances a British govt. coul instead:

For example:

*Put its best 'minds' to work in thinking of ways to close down tax loopholes-make those getting away with paying little/no tax pay their 'share' eg Vodaphone, Starbucks, Google, Amazon etc

* Bring in a financial transactions tax of 0.02% on each/every financial transaction re: banks/financiers. It is reckoned this could bring in £100 billion.

* Set to work on a programme of building social-housing for the one million homeless in Britain.

* Scrap the expensive Trident replacement missile programme which is both immoral/useless (worth £75-100 million.

* Cease getting involved in foreign wars-we've wasted £billions on these over the last 20 years!

* Invest in green technology in a serious manner

Yet, this government WON'T do any of these....WHY...becau

se these suggestions won't work? No..because it goes against the right-wing neo-Liberal 'mindset'!

Cityman23 wrote:
In the present circumstances a British govt. coul instead:

For example:

*Put its best 'minds' to work in thinking of ways to close down tax loopholes-make those getting away with paying little/no tax pay their 'share' eg Vodaphone, Starbucks, Google, Amazon etc

* Bring in a financial transactions tax of 0.02% on each/every financial transaction re: banks/financiers. It is reckoned this could bring in £100 billion.

* Set to work on a programme of building social-housing for the one million homeless in Britain.

* Scrap the expensive Trident replacement missile programme which is both immoral/useless (worth £75-100 million.

* Cease getting involved in foreign wars-we've wasted £billions on these over the last 20 years!

* Invest in green technology in a serious manner

Yet, this government WON'T do any of these....WHY...becau

se these suggestions won't work? No..because it goes against the right-wing neo-Liberal 'mindset'!

dellorri wrote:
Boy, you can certainly see who the Con/Dem supporters are on this subject can't you, and of course in their opinion their right, because none of the cuts are going to affect them......yet. But what happens say, when 2015 comes along, and the government goes ahead with its plan to axe housing benefit for under 25's, and your children who are students away from home have to come back to your house and can't stay at uni anymore. What happens when the elderly neighbour you know, who ISN'T a millionaire pensioner (there aren't that many) can't afford her heating and dies of hypothermia. what happens when you need emergency surgery and you're left on a trolley in the corridor for hours waiting and they tell you "sorry it's because of the cutbacks in our finances." these are all thing's which I've seen espoused in the above comments. What happens if one of you god forbid should lose your job through no fault of your own and you consequently can't keep up the mortgage, you lose your house and have to depend on benefits.......But they aren't there??? What then??? think about it. In this day and age of uncertainty. It could quite easily be you.

Cityman23 wrote:

webess wrote:
The welfare bill is spiralling out of control and does need to be curtailed unless we want to end up like Greece minus the sunshine.

It isn't a 'welfare bill spiralling out of control' it's a Conservative- dominated coalition government determined to push neo-liberal policies, on the pretext of bringing the deficit down.

These policies, pushed hard also in the USA since circa 1980 are all about:

*Cutting taxes for the rich
*Cutting benefits for the poor
*Cutting /Privatising as much of the Public Services as possible
*Keeping wages low
*keeping workers fearful of losing jobs/maleable
*Cutting workers rights eg health/safety etc
*Transferring the 'blame' for the financial 'crash' from those REALLY responsible ie bankers/financiers/p

oliticians (all conservative in nature!) TO those who are unemployed, poor, immigrants etc!

This present British govt. has been very successful in pushing this 'big lie.'

It is of course all ultimately aimed at transferring wealth from the majority (ordinary people) to the most wealthy and, at the moment this policy is succeeding. Hence the gap between rich/poor is wider now than for many, many decades.

In Greece, Spain, Portugal and Italy, the people have got wise to the Neo-liberal 'game' and have taken to the streets.

In Britain, we have been largely passive, docile up to now! (NB: Even the Gov. of Bank Of England spoke out recently, to say hewas surprised there hadn't a greater public outcry/response.

Yet, the worst of the cuts have not truly 'bitten'. When they do....

Thee Voice of Reason wrote:

dellorri wrote:
Boy, you can certainly see who the Con/Dem supporters are on this subject can't you, and of course in their opinion their right, because none of the cuts are going to affect them......yet. But what happens say, when 2015 comes along, and the government goes ahead with its plan to axe housing benefit for under 25's, and your children who are students away from home have to come back to your house and can't stay at uni anymore. What happens when the elderly neighbour you know, who ISN'T a millionaire pensioner (there aren't that many) can't afford her heating and dies of hypothermia. what happens when you need emergency surgery and you're left on a trolley in the corridor for hours waiting and they tell you "sorry it's because of the cutbacks in our finances." these are all thing's which I've seen espoused in the above comments. What happens if one of you god forbid should lose your job through no fault of your own and you consequently can't keep up the mortgage, you lose your house and have to depend on benefits.......But they aren't there??? What then??? think about it. In this day and age of uncertainty. It could quite easily be you.

You come out with the same on the forums, but once again just to confirm it for you.

You will find that everyone believes that the elderly and those who can't look after themselves deserve to be looked after.

You'll also find that those out there that fall on hard times through no fault of their own deserve to fall into the safety net of the welfare system for the short term till they get back into work.

The thing is we aren't talking about these people, we are talking about those with many kids who don't work but have their houses and such paid for them by their very neighbours who go to work, pay through the nose in childcare and are struggling to make ends meet.

I know some people who say they don't require the winter fuel allowance but still accept it, after all they paid into the system all their lives, they could happily live without it. And thats the problem because there are many out there like this, in theory the winter fuel allowance is a good idea but in reality many need it but equally others don't.

Like I said above there will be families who probably need it more even after working all day long still struggle to heat the house.

Don't kid yourself that there aren't hundreds of thousands of people playing the system.

If these people were dealt with and weren't playing the system those that do need it wouldn't end up under so much scrutiny, so lay the finger of blame at them.

bradfordian wrote:
The majority of people on benefits have paid their tax and national insurance. One Mr Cameron claimed Disability Living Allowance for his son, not because he need the money, he is a multi - millionaire but because he was entitled. Is there one law for them and another law for the poor?People claim benefits because they need them. Oh I forgot compassion has flown out of the window. Sad state of affairs when a country panders to the elite and dismisses the poor. Very judgemental.

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
I bet David Cameron doesn't wake up in a morning to mfind his electricity has run out and he can't light the heating, or know what it's like to have to use the toilet by candle light, to not afford to take a shower everyday, in 21st Century Britain. Is this the land fit for heroes that our forefathers fought for?

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
I bet David Cameron doesn't wake up in a morning to mfind his electricity has run out and he can't light the heating, or know what it's like to have to use the toilet by candle light, to not afford to take a shower everyday, in 21st Century Britain. Is this the land fit for heroes that our forefathers fought for?

Albion. wrote:

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
I feel sorry for the poor Council workers, those who have already lost their jobs and those who are left behind somehow running the show whilst worrying about their jobs too. The Tories and their Lib counterparts are causing absolute chaos in this country. They have a lot to answer for already, but no one will forget this criminally insane Government for a very long time to come. This is probably THE worst government in England ever, or at least going right back to King John and his Norman Barons. They are pure evil and we must all do our bit to resist them at all costs. The very future of England depends upon it.

So how come every morning when I walk down the road I pass large houses costing anything up to a million pounds,and all of them occupied, and when I get to the main road there are stream after stream of twenty thousand pound plus cars (BMW series 3 is in the top ten sellers in this country) and I get into Leeds and it's absolutely heaving with shoppers and all the trains arriving at the station there are full?
You want to try mixing in better company instead of hanging out with the "lets bemoan our lot" brigade.

thruth9211 wrote:
I found out that when on benefits, courses at college are totally free, but a person like me who is on a low wage, has to pay over £1500 for a part time course

What a non sense, i say all should pay for a course,

Its getting beyound a joke now

grow up and tell people to work, even for £2

Oh yeah and get taxes from dirty tar ts on thornton road

Every bit helps

thruth9211 wrote:
Roman Copija had a 'bad temper' when drinking, says witness Amazing how drinking is implicated in many ways to justife actions Simple alcohol is worse that CLASS A drugs, but the government support the drink for TAX scheme Also like to mention, T&A allows for comments against muslims, but when like is said about christians, the comments are removed Propoganda my media to incite aggression

thruth9211 wrote:
Roman Copija had a 'bad temper' when drinking, says witness

Amazing how drinking is implicated in many ways to justife actions

Simple alcohol is worse that CLASS A drugs, but the government support the drink for TAX scheme

Also like to mention, T&A allows for comments against muslims, but when like is said about christians, the comments are removed

Propoganda my media to incite aggression