Miles and miles of misery in M62 roadworks chaos costing millions

Bradford Telegraph and Argus: Miles of queues on the M62 have become a familiar site Miles of queues on the M62 have become a familiar site

The true scale of problems caused by major roadworks on the M62 can be revealed by the Telegraph & Argus today.

Since work to construct a managed motorway began a little more than a year ago, highways officials have been forced to remove more than 1,500 broken-down vehicles and deal with more than 100 crashes in the short stretch between junction 25 at Brighouse and junction 27 at Gildersome – a section that includes the M606 turn-off at junction 26 Chain Bar.

The £150 million Highways Agency scheme, due for completion before 2014, will involve opening up the hard shoulder as an extra running lane.

And to allow the ongoing work to take place, the normal width of lanes has been narrowed, no hard shoulder is available to stricken vehicles and a 50mph limit is being enforced by a series of speed cameras.

But the knock-on impact of each breakdown or accident is lengthy jams which haulage firms in the Bradford district say are costing them dear.

Responding to a request for information by the Telegraph & Argus, the Highways Agency revealed that, since construction work started, figures recorded by the Highways Agency for October 2011 to September 2012 show that: l There have been 138 collisions l 1,569 broken-down vehicles have been removed (an average of five per day) between junction 25 and junction 27, eastbound and westbound.

And there has been no let up since.

Last Friday afternoon, an accident involving six vehicles on the westbound carriageway near junction 25 caused traffic queues which tailed back to junction 31 at Castleford, adding about three hours to journey times.

The owner of one Bradford transport firm said the motorway was a “nightmare”, and things would only get worse as winter set in.

Thomas Crompton, owner of Thomas Crompton Developments Limited, said serious delays on the M62 could cost his firm thousands of pounds a day.

He said: “I think I have been affected three times in the last two weeks with serious delays.

“We do a lot of work in the Huddersfield area so we have to get from Chain Bar to Ainley Top. It’s a nightmare.

“It’s turned into quite a black spot at the moment. It has definitely got worse over the past few weeks.”

Malcolm Bright, of Malcolm Bright and Son Haulage Distribution in Bingley, described the M62 as being “hell on earth”.

He said: “You can lose three or four hundred pounds, no problem, sat in queues not getting forward, not getting half your day’s work done.

“You’re sat around doing nothing. Nobody ever looks at the cost of the roadworks being done.”

Mr Bright said there often did not seem to be many workmen in sight.

He said: “You can travel miles and miles and miles and nothing’s being done. You can find it’s been coned off for the last four miles and there’s half a mile where they’re doing work on it.”

Meanwhile, Councillor Robert Light (Con, Birstall and Birkenshaw), leader of the Conservatives at Kirklees Council, has now called for the roadworks to be fast-tracked.

He said although everyone understood why the works were necessary, they were having a knock-on effect on his ward, with queues regularly building up along routes which fed on to the motorway.

A Highways Agency spokesman said: “Work on the scheme is progressing really well, and we would like to thank road users for their patience while we carry out these much-needed improvements to the M62. In order to reduce the delays caused by broken-down vehicles and collisions in live lanes, the Highways Agency has a free, 24/7 vehicle recovery service in operation throughout the roadworks for the scheme, and the entire length of the roadworks is covered both by constantly-monitored CCTV cameras and, as well as traffic officers patrolling the routes, our contractor has Traffic Safety Control Officers keeping an eye out for road users.

“This means that accidents or incidents can be quickly identified and the appropriate help given, with an average response time by our vehicle recovery service of 15 minutes.

“It is not possible to give an estimate of average delay times caused by collisions or breakdowns.

“In normal motorway conditions, queues are monitored through electronic ‘loops’ set into the road surface, but these have been deactivated to allow the construction work to take place.

“As a result, queue data through the M62 works is not routinely recorded.”

Comments (45)

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11:35am Mon 5 Nov 12

vax2002 says...

Bar a few years in the 80's the M62 has been constant road works in west yorkshire for living memory.
The constant one after another after another policy appears to have started around the same time as speed cameras.
The connection is to well made to be anything but.
Perhaps they can not manage without the taxes generated by them.
Just driving along you can be lucky to see a single bloke doing any work for months at a time.
Year after year, motorists have been subjected to a daily drudge of road works on the M62 and there is no end in sight to them.
It can not be anything but purposeful spite to make our economy unattractive to investors.
Would you build here, with the certainty of your goods spending days stuck in traffic jams.
Factor in the over reaction squad if there is a minor bump, closing the motorway for sometimes days on end and to be honest, it's just not worth the risk turning on to it.
Bar a few years in the 80's the M62 has been constant road works in west yorkshire for living memory. The constant one after another after another policy appears to have started around the same time as speed cameras. The connection is to well made to be anything but. Perhaps they can not manage without the taxes generated by them. Just driving along you can be lucky to see a single bloke doing any work for months at a time. Year after year, motorists have been subjected to a daily drudge of road works on the M62 and there is no end in sight to them. It can not be anything but purposeful spite to make our economy unattractive to investors. Would you build here, with the certainty of your goods spending days stuck in traffic jams. Factor in the over reaction squad if there is a minor bump, closing the motorway for sometimes days on end and to be honest, it's just not worth the risk turning on to it. vax2002

12:10pm Mon 5 Nov 12

nowt fresh says...

If the links to get onto the M62 are not improved "re chain bar" what's the point at peak times your backed up to the industrial estate, that's before you hit “hell on earth”,as it has been described above, why the powers that be
can't understand that all motorways require a minimum of 4 lanes in this day and age as people will not use public transport as it is not convenient for most people hence the volume of traffic on the inadequate road system's, hardly "rocket science".
If the links to get onto the M62 are not improved "re chain bar" what's the point at peak times your backed up to the industrial estate, that's before you hit “hell on earth”,as it has been described above, why the powers that be can't understand that all motorways require a minimum of 4 lanes in this day and age as people will not use public transport as it is not convenient for most people hence the volume of traffic on the inadequate road system's, hardly "rocket science". nowt fresh

12:39pm Mon 5 Nov 12

Wanna Have says...

Yes was stuck in this Friday, just yet another jam on this stretch.

150 million is nowhere enough of a spend on the main route linking the major cities in the North of England.

Contrast that with the billions spent on the South East, we're just the poor relations, we pay our taxes in the North and get nothing back.

We probably need a West Yorkshire ring road or tube system to take traffic orr people travelling from Bradford, Huddersfield and Halifax into Leeds without the need to join the motorway -but that would cost so forget it.
We get this pathetic alternative of using the hard shoulder which done on the cheap takes years.
Yes was stuck in this Friday, just yet another jam on this stretch. 150 million is nowhere enough of a spend on the main route linking the major cities in the North of England. Contrast that with the billions spent on the South East, we're just the poor relations, we pay our taxes in the North and get nothing back. We probably need a West Yorkshire ring road or tube system to take traffic orr people travelling from Bradford, Huddersfield and Halifax into Leeds without the need to join the motorway -but that would cost so forget it. We get this pathetic alternative of using the hard shoulder which done on the cheap takes years. Wanna Have

12:52pm Mon 5 Nov 12

MontyLeMar says...

I can't help thinking this is another pile of money wasted. It will no sooner get completed than it will be time to start again because the traffic has unexpectedly grown. Leeds and Manchester are the two booming towns of the north at the moment and in recognition of this the government ought to first of all get the railway upgraded to all electric. If we had a half decent railway instead of the usual cattle wagons this could encourage people to leave the car behind and thus reduce the traffic using the M62.
I can't help thinking this is another pile of money wasted. It will no sooner get completed than it will be time to start again because the traffic has unexpectedly grown. Leeds and Manchester are the two booming towns of the north at the moment and in recognition of this the government ought to first of all get the railway upgraded to all electric. If we had a half decent railway instead of the usual cattle wagons this could encourage people to leave the car behind and thus reduce the traffic using the M62. MontyLeMar

1:17pm Mon 5 Nov 12

angry bradfordian says...

I don't understand what people want as an alternative.
The only alternative to a couple of years of delays in the roadworks is not to have bothered and faced years of delays anyway- the delays in rush hour were already terrible before the roadworks started.
I don't understand what people want as an alternative. The only alternative to a couple of years of delays in the roadworks is not to have bothered and faced years of delays anyway- the delays in rush hour were already terrible before the roadworks started. angry bradfordian

1:46pm Mon 5 Nov 12

octyvrs says...

Not surprised about the amount of accidents on that stretch with the amount of ignorant drivers cutting each other up and no one has a clue what anyone else is doing either as no one has the first clue as to how their indicators work. Just because you know where your going doesn't mean everyone else does too!
Not surprised about the amount of accidents on that stretch with the amount of ignorant drivers cutting each other up and no one has a clue what anyone else is doing either as no one has the first clue as to how their indicators work. Just because you know where your going doesn't mean everyone else does too! octyvrs

2:15pm Mon 5 Nov 12

collos25 says...

An exercise in how not to run a contract they come from all over the world to see how it should not be done.
What a fiasco and to think when its finished and the tolls are in place thats what the gantries are for the A roads surrounding the M62 will be even more clogged up.
An exercise in how not to run a contract they come from all over the world to see how it should not be done. What a fiasco and to think when its finished and the tolls are in place thats what the gantries are for the A roads surrounding the M62 will be even more clogged up. collos25

2:25pm Mon 5 Nov 12

Silsdenman says...

The whole thing is ridiculous, they have no regard whatsoever for the cost and inconvenience to travellers. A good way of making it safer or less dangerous would be to limit HGVs to the inside lane as they often hog both lanes because their speedos are more accurate than a car and so they travel at an actual 50 whilst cars are doing about 45. So they go into middle lane and when it is raining bthis causes an enormous amount of spray. Considering the rules we have to follow for health and safety in the workplace which is on the M62 for a lot of people, travelling on motorway roadworks is a way when everyone's lives are in real danger but the authorities don't care and will close the motorway for hours just to satisfy insurance companies.
They thank us for our patience but being forced to wait is not patience, we don't have a choice.
The whole thing is ridiculous, they have no regard whatsoever for the cost and inconvenience to travellers. A good way of making it safer or less dangerous would be to limit HGVs to the inside lane as they often hog both lanes because their speedos are more accurate than a car and so they travel at an actual 50 whilst cars are doing about 45. So they go into middle lane and when it is raining bthis causes an enormous amount of spray. Considering the rules we have to follow for health and safety in the workplace which is on the M62 for a lot of people, travelling on motorway roadworks is a way when everyone's lives are in real danger but the authorities don't care and will close the motorway for hours just to satisfy insurance companies. They thank us for our patience but being forced to wait is not patience, we don't have a choice. Silsdenman

2:30pm Mon 5 Nov 12

angry bradfordian says...

collos25 wrote:
An exercise in how not to run a contract they come from all over the world to see how it should not be done.
What a fiasco and to think when its finished and the tolls are in place thats what the gantries are for the A roads surrounding the M62 will be even more clogged up.
What are your specific problems with the way the contract is run? It looks like every other roadworks I've ever seen.

Don't know why you think that tolls are going to be introduced. The same type of arrangement has been used around Birmingham for 4 or 5 years and the improvement in flows is amazing.
[quote][p][bold]collos25[/bold] wrote: An exercise in how not to run a contract they come from all over the world to see how it should not be done. What a fiasco and to think when its finished and the tolls are in place thats what the gantries are for the A roads surrounding the M62 will be even more clogged up.[/p][/quote]What are your specific problems with the way the contract is run? It looks like every other roadworks I've ever seen. Don't know why you think that tolls are going to be introduced. The same type of arrangement has been used around Birmingham for 4 or 5 years and the improvement in flows is amazing. angry bradfordian

2:50pm Mon 5 Nov 12

Outraged English Subject says...

Tolls on the M62 are just laughable; you would have to pay me to drive down it, a terrible road. Remember when it first opened and it was said it would never close, then in its first year it closed due to snow! How many taxes do the government expect motorist to pay. In the last fifteen years when I’ve had to use it we make sure we join it via the M606 before 5am, heading to the East Coast and make sure the time of departure back is after midnight, clear roads each way just HGV’s in the left hand lane. My heart goes out to rush hour (HOURS!) commuters, its pure madness at those times, and always shall be!
Tolls on the M62 are just laughable; you would have to pay me to drive down it, a terrible road. Remember when it first opened and it was said it would never close, then in its first year it closed due to snow! How many taxes do the government expect motorist to pay. In the last fifteen years when I’ve had to use it we make sure we join it via the M606 before 5am, heading to the East Coast and make sure the time of departure back is after midnight, clear roads each way just HGV’s in the left hand lane. My heart goes out to rush hour (HOURS!) commuters, its pure madness at those times, and always shall be! Outraged English Subject

2:53pm Mon 5 Nov 12

Outraged English Subject says...

Is the M6 toll now £8 a time? If so thats maybe why, "the improvement in flows is amazing.”
Is the M6 toll now £8 a time? If so thats maybe why, "the improvement in flows is amazing.” Outraged English Subject

3:06pm Mon 5 Nov 12

angry bradfordian says...

Outraged English Subject wrote:
Is the M6 toll now £8 a time? If so thats maybe why, "the improvement in flows is amazing.”
The M6 Toll isn't a 'managed motorway' It's just quiet because it's very expensive to use at £5.50 for a car for each journey.

The managed motorway section is on a stretch of the M42 and the original non-tolled M6 both of which now flow much better in rush hour with hard shoulder running.
[quote][p][bold]Outraged English Subject[/bold] wrote: Is the M6 toll now £8 a time? If so thats maybe why, "the improvement in flows is amazing.”[/p][/quote]The M6 Toll isn't a 'managed motorway' It's just quiet because it's very expensive to use at £5.50 for a car for each journey. The managed motorway section is on a stretch of the M42 and the original non-tolled M6 both of which now flow much better in rush hour with hard shoulder running. angry bradfordian

3:08pm Mon 5 Nov 12

citizen smith says...

Being a regular driver through this section I've found it to be the worst set of roadworks I've ever encountered!

Just about every day the traffic news contains reports of major delays or accidents in these roadworks. Quite often it's "broken down vehicle blocking lane", where on earth do the people managing this scheme expect people to go in the event of a breakdown or accident when the inside lane is bordered by metal barriers and the very narrow lanes would make you seriously think twice about the safety of getting out of a stranded vehicle with trucks thundering past inches away in the next lane?

Hard shoulders were included on motorways to enable safe refuge in the event of breakdown or accident. Taking these away, and as it's proving day after day, it's an accident waiting to happen.

Not long ago there was an incident where emergency services were unable to get to a serious accident because of there being no hard shoulder. Whoever is in charge of this scheme should be held to account for the fatal and serious accidents caused by this dangerously planned and managed scheme.

Yes some drivers are idiots and shouldn't be on the road, but with narrow lanes inches wider than trucks and no safety hard shoulder it was plainly obvious that these roadworks were going to be a safety issue from day one.
Being a regular driver through this section I've found it to be the worst set of roadworks I've ever encountered! Just about every day the traffic news contains reports of major delays or accidents in these roadworks. Quite often it's "broken down vehicle blocking lane", where on earth do the people managing this scheme expect people to go in the event of a breakdown or accident when the inside lane is bordered by metal barriers and the very narrow lanes would make you seriously think twice about the safety of getting out of a stranded vehicle with trucks thundering past inches away in the next lane? Hard shoulders were included on motorways to enable safe refuge in the event of breakdown or accident. Taking these away, and as it's proving day after day, it's an accident waiting to happen. Not long ago there was an incident where emergency services were unable to get to a serious accident because of there being no hard shoulder. Whoever is in charge of this scheme should be held to account for the fatal and serious accidents caused by this dangerously planned and managed scheme. Yes some drivers are idiots and shouldn't be on the road, but with narrow lanes inches wider than trucks and no safety hard shoulder it was plainly obvious that these roadworks were going to be a safety issue from day one. citizen smith

3:29pm Mon 5 Nov 12

Outraged English Subject says...

angry bradfordian wrote:
Outraged English Subject wrote:
Is the M6 toll now £8 a time? If so thats maybe why, "the improvement in flows is amazing.”
The M6 Toll isn't a 'managed motorway' It's just quiet because it's very expensive to use at £5.50 for a car for each journey.

The managed motorway section is on a stretch of the M42 and the original non-tolled M6 both of which now flow much better in rush hour with hard shoulder running.
Thanks,
[quote][p][bold]angry bradfordian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Outraged English Subject[/bold] wrote: Is the M6 toll now £8 a time? If so thats maybe why, "the improvement in flows is amazing.”[/p][/quote]The M6 Toll isn't a 'managed motorway' It's just quiet because it's very expensive to use at £5.50 for a car for each journey. The managed motorway section is on a stretch of the M42 and the original non-tolled M6 both of which now flow much better in rush hour with hard shoulder running.[/p][/quote]Thanks, Outraged English Subject

3:39pm Mon 5 Nov 12

angry bradfordian says...

citizen smith wrote:
Being a regular driver through this section I've found it to be the worst set of roadworks I've ever encountered!

Just about every day the traffic news contains reports of major delays or accidents in these roadworks. Quite often it's "broken down vehicle blocking lane", where on earth do the people managing this scheme expect people to go in the event of a breakdown or accident when the inside lane is bordered by metal barriers and the very narrow lanes would make you seriously think twice about the safety of getting out of a stranded vehicle with trucks thundering past inches away in the next lane?

Hard shoulders were included on motorways to enable safe refuge in the event of breakdown or accident. Taking these away, and as it's proving day after day, it's an accident waiting to happen.

Not long ago there was an incident where emergency services were unable to get to a serious accident because of there being no hard shoulder. Whoever is in charge of this scheme should be held to account for the fatal and serious accidents caused by this dangerously planned and managed scheme.

Yes some drivers are idiots and shouldn't be on the road, but with narrow lanes inches wider than trucks and no safety hard shoulder it was plainly obvious that these roadworks were going to be a safety issue from day one.
The incident where the emergency services couldn't get to the accident (I think it was in the queue during the awful crash where the lorry fell on the car) was caused by the builders blocking their site, not the hard shoulder.

The hard shoulder will only be used during congestion and is closed within seconds when a vehicle breaks down by a person watching from a control room.
On the sections of managed motorway already open, breakdowns are actually safer as more than 1 lane can be closed to avoid colliding and the speed limits on the gantries are not ignored because of the speed cameras in the gantries.
In these days of no blame, no claim there's not a single public body that would sign up to something that's not safe.
It's expensive, but probably more environmentally friendly than bulldozing loads more countryside.
[quote][p][bold]citizen smith[/bold] wrote: Being a regular driver through this section I've found it to be the worst set of roadworks I've ever encountered! Just about every day the traffic news contains reports of major delays or accidents in these roadworks. Quite often it's "broken down vehicle blocking lane", where on earth do the people managing this scheme expect people to go in the event of a breakdown or accident when the inside lane is bordered by metal barriers and the very narrow lanes would make you seriously think twice about the safety of getting out of a stranded vehicle with trucks thundering past inches away in the next lane? Hard shoulders were included on motorways to enable safe refuge in the event of breakdown or accident. Taking these away, and as it's proving day after day, it's an accident waiting to happen. Not long ago there was an incident where emergency services were unable to get to a serious accident because of there being no hard shoulder. Whoever is in charge of this scheme should be held to account for the fatal and serious accidents caused by this dangerously planned and managed scheme. Yes some drivers are idiots and shouldn't be on the road, but with narrow lanes inches wider than trucks and no safety hard shoulder it was plainly obvious that these roadworks were going to be a safety issue from day one.[/p][/quote]The incident where the emergency services couldn't get to the accident (I think it was in the queue during the awful crash where the lorry fell on the car) was caused by the builders blocking their site, not the hard shoulder. The hard shoulder will only be used during congestion and is closed within seconds when a vehicle breaks down by a person watching from a control room. On the sections of managed motorway already open, breakdowns are actually safer as more than 1 lane can be closed to avoid colliding and the speed limits on the gantries are not ignored because of the speed cameras in the gantries. In these days of no blame, no claim there's not a single public body that would sign up to something that's not safe. It's expensive, but probably more environmentally friendly than bulldozing loads more countryside. angry bradfordian

3:48pm Mon 5 Nov 12

Cooperlane2 says...

Why are there so many cars breaking down on this stretch?
You can travel hundreds of miles on motorways and see the odd car, yet this small area has multiple breakdowns per day?
Why are there so many cars breaking down on this stretch? You can travel hundreds of miles on motorways and see the odd car, yet this small area has multiple breakdowns per day? Cooperlane2

3:59pm Mon 5 Nov 12

Mark_b says...

Personally i blame the road tax dodging cyclists - if they all paid to use their fair share of the road network then there'd be more money to invest in schemes like these.

Can't the cyclists see that it's good for them to have more motorways built as it takes cars off other roads!
Personally i blame the road tax dodging cyclists - if they all paid to use their fair share of the road network then there'd be more money to invest in schemes like these. Can't the cyclists see that it's good for them to have more motorways built as it takes cars off other roads! Mark_b

4:14pm Mon 5 Nov 12

BigFigure says...

Silsdenman wrote:
The whole thing is ridiculous, they have no regard whatsoever for the cost and inconvenience to travellers. A good way of making it safer or less dangerous would be to limit HGVs to the inside lane as they often hog both lanes because their speedos are more accurate than a car and so they travel at an actual 50 whilst cars are doing about 45. So they go into middle lane and when it is raining bthis causes an enormous amount of spray. Considering the rules we have to follow for health and safety in the workplace which is on the M62 for a lot of people, travelling on motorway roadworks is a way when everyone's lives are in real danger but the authorities don't care and will close the motorway for hours just to satisfy insurance companies.
They thank us for our patience but being forced to wait is not patience, we don't have a choice.
Not sure HGVs have "more accurate" speedometers than cars.....just that the drivers know you can get away with doing 55 mph and the cameras won't react....some of the worst driving on here is displayed by HGV drivers
[quote][p][bold]Silsdenman[/bold] wrote: The whole thing is ridiculous, they have no regard whatsoever for the cost and inconvenience to travellers. A good way of making it safer or less dangerous would be to limit HGVs to the inside lane as they often hog both lanes because their speedos are more accurate than a car and so they travel at an actual 50 whilst cars are doing about 45. So they go into middle lane and when it is raining bthis causes an enormous amount of spray. Considering the rules we have to follow for health and safety in the workplace which is on the M62 for a lot of people, travelling on motorway roadworks is a way when everyone's lives are in real danger but the authorities don't care and will close the motorway for hours just to satisfy insurance companies. They thank us for our patience but being forced to wait is not patience, we don't have a choice.[/p][/quote]Not sure HGVs have "more accurate" speedometers than cars.....just that the drivers know you can get away with doing 55 mph and the cameras won't react....some of the worst driving on here is displayed by HGV drivers BigFigure

4:29pm Mon 5 Nov 12

collos25 says...

angry bradfordian wrote:
collos25 wrote:
An exercise in how not to run a contract they come from all over the world to see how it should not be done.
What a fiasco and to think when its finished and the tolls are in place thats what the gantries are for the A roads surrounding the M62 will be even more clogged up.
What are your specific problems with the way the contract is run? It looks like every other roadworks I've ever seen.

Don't know why you think that tolls are going to be introduced. The same type of arrangement has been used around Birmingham for 4 or 5 years and the improvement in flows is amazing.
Because they are using under half of the personnel required they are not using plant that would make the work quicker and easier in other words they are doing at cheap as possible.As far as tolls are concerned the gantries are ready to receive the Siemens equipment as used across europe you have already been warned by the government that some roads will be sold off and tolls introduced.
[quote][p][bold]angry bradfordian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]collos25[/bold] wrote: An exercise in how not to run a contract they come from all over the world to see how it should not be done. What a fiasco and to think when its finished and the tolls are in place thats what the gantries are for the A roads surrounding the M62 will be even more clogged up.[/p][/quote]What are your specific problems with the way the contract is run? It looks like every other roadworks I've ever seen. Don't know why you think that tolls are going to be introduced. The same type of arrangement has been used around Birmingham for 4 or 5 years and the improvement in flows is amazing.[/p][/quote]Because they are using under half of the personnel required they are not using plant that would make the work quicker and easier in other words they are doing at cheap as possible.As far as tolls are concerned the gantries are ready to receive the Siemens equipment as used across europe you have already been warned by the government that some roads will be sold off and tolls introduced. collos25

4:31pm Mon 5 Nov 12

collos25 says...

Mark_b wrote:
Personally i blame the road tax dodging cyclists - if they all paid to use their fair share of the road network then there'd be more money to invest in schemes like these.

Can't the cyclists see that it's good for them to have more motorways built as it takes cars off other roads!
Cars that emit low Co2 pay no road tax cycles produce no Co2 therefore they would be tax free.
[quote][p][bold]Mark_b[/bold] wrote: Personally i blame the road tax dodging cyclists - if they all paid to use their fair share of the road network then there'd be more money to invest in schemes like these. Can't the cyclists see that it's good for them to have more motorways built as it takes cars off other roads![/p][/quote]Cars that emit low Co2 pay no road tax cycles produce no Co2 therefore they would be tax free. collos25

4:35pm Mon 5 Nov 12

Silsdenman says...

BigFigure wrote:
Silsdenman wrote:
The whole thing is ridiculous, they have no regard whatsoever for the cost and inconvenience to travellers. A good way of making it safer or less dangerous would be to limit HGVs to the inside lane as they often hog both lanes because their speedos are more accurate than a car and so they travel at an actual 50 whilst cars are doing about 45. So they go into middle lane and when it is raining bthis causes an enormous amount of spray. Considering the rules we have to follow for health and safety in the workplace which is on the M62 for a lot of people, travelling on motorway roadworks is a way when everyone's lives are in real danger but the authorities don't care and will close the motorway for hours just to satisfy insurance companies.
They thank us for our patience but being forced to wait is not patience, we don't have a choice.
Not sure HGVs have "more accurate" speedometers than cars.....just that the drivers know you can get away with doing 55 mph and the cameras won't react....some of the worst driving on here is displayed by HGV drivers
Yes some of them are very bad and impatient drivers but their speedos are calibrated exactly for their tachographs whereas most cars read 10% more than their speed. Therefore a truck may well travel at 56 (their maximum) knowing cameras are probably set a bit higher and cars travelling at same speed would show 62(ish).

Fact is, they should all have to stay in the inside lane through these works and if they are stuck behind a car it's too bad.
[quote][p][bold]BigFigure[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Silsdenman[/bold] wrote: The whole thing is ridiculous, they have no regard whatsoever for the cost and inconvenience to travellers. A good way of making it safer or less dangerous would be to limit HGVs to the inside lane as they often hog both lanes because their speedos are more accurate than a car and so they travel at an actual 50 whilst cars are doing about 45. So they go into middle lane and when it is raining bthis causes an enormous amount of spray. Considering the rules we have to follow for health and safety in the workplace which is on the M62 for a lot of people, travelling on motorway roadworks is a way when everyone's lives are in real danger but the authorities don't care and will close the motorway for hours just to satisfy insurance companies. They thank us for our patience but being forced to wait is not patience, we don't have a choice.[/p][/quote]Not sure HGVs have "more accurate" speedometers than cars.....just that the drivers know you can get away with doing 55 mph and the cameras won't react....some of the worst driving on here is displayed by HGV drivers[/p][/quote]Yes some of them are very bad and impatient drivers but their speedos are calibrated exactly for their tachographs whereas most cars read 10% more than their speed. Therefore a truck may well travel at 56 (their maximum) knowing cameras are probably set a bit higher and cars travelling at same speed would show 62(ish). Fact is, they should all have to stay in the inside lane through these works and if they are stuck behind a car it's too bad. Silsdenman

4:35pm Mon 5 Nov 12

yezboss says...

This section would be eased if they built the link from the M1 at around junction 38? to the M62 around J24?.
Crossing the Huddersfield corridor. Cutting off this corner would be an advantage similar to the M18 M180 function. It was mooted some time ago and could have gone ahead but they decided to spend money on this exercise instead which as stated above is pointless. I neither do recall this ever being anything other than a construction site since the mid to late 80's. A massive FAIL Highways Agency.
This section would be eased if they built the link from the M1 at around junction 38? to the M62 around J24?. Crossing the Huddersfield corridor. Cutting off this corner would be an advantage similar to the M18 M180 function. It was mooted some time ago and could have gone ahead but they decided to spend money on this exercise instead which as stated above is pointless. I neither do recall this ever being anything other than a construction site since the mid to late 80's. A massive FAIL Highways Agency. yezboss

4:49pm Mon 5 Nov 12

Outraged English Subject says...

Mark_b wrote:
Personally i blame the road tax dodging cyclists - if they all paid to use their fair share of the road network then there'd be more money to invest in schemes like these.

Can't the cyclists see that it's good for them to have more motorways built as it takes cars off other roads!
What about the road tax dodging pedestrians’? They are road users also, (sorry just had to say it) think the word motor may have a bearing on whom should pay road tax, and low Co2 producers should be charged accordingly. However all motor vehicle user shall pay outrageous fuel duty prices.
[quote][p][bold]Mark_b[/bold] wrote: Personally i blame the road tax dodging cyclists - if they all paid to use their fair share of the road network then there'd be more money to invest in schemes like these. Can't the cyclists see that it's good for them to have more motorways built as it takes cars off other roads![/p][/quote]What about the road tax dodging pedestrians’? They are road users also, (sorry just had to say it) think the word motor may have a bearing on whom should pay road tax, and low Co2 producers should be charged accordingly. However all motor vehicle user shall pay outrageous fuel duty prices. Outraged English Subject

4:53pm Mon 5 Nov 12

Prisoner Cell Block A says...

The issue is the length of road which is coned off, reduced to 50mph, and has no one working on it.

Why can't mile long stretches be done at one time and then move on and on etc?

In France, roadworks on motorways take place at night, are on limited stretches and have a 100 metre coned lead in and a 100 metre coned lead off, thereby causing little disruption to trafiic at it's heaviest.
The issue is the length of road which is coned off, reduced to 50mph, and has no one working on it. Why can't mile long stretches be done at one time and then move on and on etc? In France, roadworks on motorways take place at night, are on limited stretches and have a 100 metre coned lead in and a 100 metre coned lead off, thereby causing little disruption to trafiic at it's heaviest. Prisoner Cell Block A

5:17pm Mon 5 Nov 12

LovingItLive says...

Mark_b wrote:
Personally i blame the road tax dodging cyclists - if they all paid to use their fair share of the road network then there'd be more money to invest in schemes like these.

Can't the cyclists see that it's good for them to have more motorways built as it takes cars off other roads!
Road tax was abolished in 1937. From then onwards EVERY tax paying UK citizen paid for the upkeep of the roads through general taxation and later through council tax contributions along with general taxation.

Your refering to the Vehicle Excise Duty which motorists pay for. The more eco friendlyt your car, the less you pay.

So to go back to the original point cyclists are not tax dodging, they pay for the upkeep to the highways as do pedestrians...
[quote][p][bold]Mark_b[/bold] wrote: Personally i blame the road tax dodging cyclists - if they all paid to use their fair share of the road network then there'd be more money to invest in schemes like these. Can't the cyclists see that it's good for them to have more motorways built as it takes cars off other roads![/p][/quote]Road tax was abolished in 1937. From then onwards EVERY tax paying UK citizen paid for the upkeep of the roads through general taxation and later through council tax contributions along with general taxation. Your refering to the Vehicle Excise Duty which motorists pay for. The more eco friendlyt your car, the less you pay. So to go back to the original point cyclists are not tax dodging, they pay for the upkeep to the highways as do pedestrians... LovingItLive

5:23pm Mon 5 Nov 12

Another Landless Peasant says...

There are just too many cars now in existence and this madness has got to stop. Crush the lot of them.
There are just too many cars now in existence and this madness has got to stop. Crush the lot of them. Another Landless Peasant

5:35pm Mon 5 Nov 12

Joedavid says...

A better motor network required, first the M65 should be extended to the M1 going north of Bradford and Leeds, is there no plan for the M65 to go somewhere?
Another link for the M6/M1 should be south of Manchester to join M1 around Sheffield.
A better motor network required, first the M65 should be extended to the M1 going north of Bradford and Leeds, is there no plan for the M65 to go somewhere? Another link for the M6/M1 should be south of Manchester to join M1 around Sheffield. Joedavid

5:47pm Mon 5 Nov 12

spinnekop says...

I would'nt fret. In ten years only the rich elite will be able to afford fuel and insurance.
I would'nt fret. In ten years only the rich elite will be able to afford fuel and insurance. spinnekop

5:49pm Mon 5 Nov 12

SBrough says...

citizen smith wrote:
Being a regular driver through this section I've found it to be the worst set of roadworks I've ever encountered!

Just about every day the traffic news contains reports of major delays or accidents in these roadworks. Quite often it's "broken down vehicle blocking lane", where on earth do the people managing this scheme expect people to go in the event of a breakdown or accident when the inside lane is bordered by metal barriers and the very narrow lanes would make you seriously think twice about the safety of getting out of a stranded vehicle with trucks thundering past inches away in the next lane?

Hard shoulders were included on motorways to enable safe refuge in the event of breakdown or accident. Taking these away, and as it's proving day after day, it's an accident waiting to happen.

Not long ago there was an incident where emergency services were unable to get to a serious accident because of there being no hard shoulder. Whoever is in charge of this scheme should be held to account for the fatal and serious accidents caused by this dangerously planned and managed scheme.

Yes some drivers are idiots and shouldn't be on the road, but with narrow lanes inches wider than trucks and no safety hard shoulder it was plainly obvious that these roadworks were going to be a safety issue from day one.
Totally agree with you! I think it is outrageous that the hard shoulder be unavailable for miles and miles. More care is given to the workmen than those travelling. My clutch broke on the M62 at Junction 26 two weeks ago, I was in the middle lane with no hard shoulder. I am a young girl who immediately started to panic! I managed to get my car into the first lane and put on my hazards before coming to a standstill where I ran out of my car and jumped over the barriers. I would honestly describe it as one of the worst experiences of my life. Alls I could think was that someone was going to go into the back of me at any second. I am now traumatised, afraid of motorways and attending hypnotherapy weekly (very expensive) to try and resolve this so that it does not affect me for the rest of my life. I would really love to talk to the person in charge of this mockery - more trouble than its worth in my eyes! I would rather put up with traffic, as long as I am safe.
[quote][p][bold]citizen smith[/bold] wrote: Being a regular driver through this section I've found it to be the worst set of roadworks I've ever encountered! Just about every day the traffic news contains reports of major delays or accidents in these roadworks. Quite often it's "broken down vehicle blocking lane", where on earth do the people managing this scheme expect people to go in the event of a breakdown or accident when the inside lane is bordered by metal barriers and the very narrow lanes would make you seriously think twice about the safety of getting out of a stranded vehicle with trucks thundering past inches away in the next lane? Hard shoulders were included on motorways to enable safe refuge in the event of breakdown or accident. Taking these away, and as it's proving day after day, it's an accident waiting to happen. Not long ago there was an incident where emergency services were unable to get to a serious accident because of there being no hard shoulder. Whoever is in charge of this scheme should be held to account for the fatal and serious accidents caused by this dangerously planned and managed scheme. Yes some drivers are idiots and shouldn't be on the road, but with narrow lanes inches wider than trucks and no safety hard shoulder it was plainly obvious that these roadworks were going to be a safety issue from day one.[/p][/quote]Totally agree with you! I think it is outrageous that the hard shoulder be unavailable for miles and miles. More care is given to the workmen than those travelling. My clutch broke on the M62 at Junction 26 two weeks ago, I was in the middle lane with no hard shoulder. I am a young girl who immediately started to panic! I managed to get my car into the first lane and put on my hazards before coming to a standstill where I ran out of my car and jumped over the barriers. I would honestly describe it as one of the worst experiences of my life. Alls I could think was that someone was going to go into the back of me at any second. I am now traumatised, afraid of motorways and attending hypnotherapy weekly (very expensive) to try and resolve this so that it does not affect me for the rest of my life. I would really love to talk to the person in charge of this mockery - more trouble than its worth in my eyes! I would rather put up with traffic, as long as I am safe. SBrough

6:12pm Mon 5 Nov 12

ravacity says...

Joedavid wrote:
A better motor network required, first the M65 should be extended to the M1 going north of Bradford and Leeds, is there no plan for the M65 to go somewhere?
Another link for the M6/M1 should be south of Manchester to join M1 around Sheffield.
like your idea for a m6/m1 link road straight through the peak district national park
[quote][p][bold]Joedavid[/bold] wrote: A better motor network required, first the M65 should be extended to the M1 going north of Bradford and Leeds, is there no plan for the M65 to go somewhere? Another link for the M6/M1 should be south of Manchester to join M1 around Sheffield.[/p][/quote]like your idea for a m6/m1 link road straight through the peak district national park ravacity

6:15pm Mon 5 Nov 12

nowt fresh says...

spinnekop wrote:
I would'nt fret. In ten years only the rich elite will be able to afford fuel and insurance.
I'll go along with the petrol arguement spinnekop but there are plenty running cars "now" without insurance as may honest drivers find out every year on renewal of their car insurance, when they ask their insurance companies "why have my premiums increased" stock answer to cover claimes against uninsured drivers in BD2,BD3,BD8,BD9,!!.
[quote][p][bold]spinnekop[/bold] wrote: I would'nt fret. In ten years only the rich elite will be able to afford fuel and insurance.[/p][/quote]I'll go along with the petrol arguement spinnekop but there are plenty running cars "now" without insurance as may honest drivers find out every year on renewal of their car insurance, when they ask their insurance companies "why have my premiums increased" stock answer to cover claimes against uninsured drivers in BD2,BD3,BD8,BD9,!!. nowt fresh

6:16pm Mon 5 Nov 12

Prisoner Cell Block A says...

The consideration for co2 emissions is a recent addition and an attempt to persuade people to drive more efficient and less damaging vehicles, it wasn't as part of the swtch from road tax to vehicle excise.
The consideration for co2 emissions is a recent addition and an attempt to persuade people to drive more efficient and less damaging vehicles, it wasn't as part of the swtch from road tax to vehicle excise. Prisoner Cell Block A

7:12pm Mon 5 Nov 12

Silsdenman says...

There is a good website called patheticmotorways http://pathetic.org.
uk/unfinished/ which tells us of projects that were abandoned.

One is a motorway from Sheffield across to M67 to M60 and then straight into Manchester. The M67 is an unfinished dead end just west of Glossop and you can see the intended other end of it which is junction 35A on M1 just north of Sheffield. The A616 Stocksbridge by-pass from there has been clearly built to be a motorway, look at the width of the bridges. As it is a massive amount of heavy vehicles trudge across the Woodhead Pass with obvious consequences.

In many other countries in Europe a civil engineering project across so called beautiful areas is something to be proud of.

The M606 can clearly be seen as unfinished with sharp bend at the top, that was supposed to join A650 near bottom of Wakefield Rd and then go right across to M65 at Colne, another bottleneck, but is then a quiet under-used motorway.to M61 and M6.

Both of those projects would have made a huge difference to reduce the volume of traffic on M62
There is a good website called patheticmotorways http://pathetic.org. uk/unfinished/ which tells us of projects that were abandoned. One is a motorway from Sheffield across to M67 to M60 and then straight into Manchester. The M67 is an unfinished dead end just west of Glossop and you can see the intended other end of it which is junction 35A on M1 just north of Sheffield. The A616 Stocksbridge by-pass from there has been clearly built to be a motorway, look at the width of the bridges. As it is a massive amount of heavy vehicles trudge across the Woodhead Pass with obvious consequences. In many other countries in Europe a civil engineering project across so called beautiful areas is something to be proud of. The M606 can clearly be seen as unfinished with sharp bend at the top, that was supposed to join A650 near bottom of Wakefield Rd and then go right across to M65 at Colne, another bottleneck, but is then a quiet under-used motorway.to M61 and M6. Both of those projects would have made a huge difference to reduce the volume of traffic on M62 Silsdenman

7:15pm Mon 5 Nov 12

Silsdenman says...

Prisoner Cell Block A wrote:
The consideration for co2 emissions is a recent addition and an attempt to persuade people to drive more efficient and less damaging vehicles, it wasn't as part of the swtch from road tax to vehicle excise.
Yes but they don't reduce the amount and cost of traffic. If everyone got such vehicles we would have worse congestion as there would be even less money to spend on improvements and we would have the nightmare of inept Prius drivers everywhere slowing everything down.
[quote][p][bold]Prisoner Cell Block A[/bold] wrote: The consideration for co2 emissions is a recent addition and an attempt to persuade people to drive more efficient and less damaging vehicles, it wasn't as part of the swtch from road tax to vehicle excise.[/p][/quote]Yes but they don't reduce the amount and cost of traffic. If everyone got such vehicles we would have worse congestion as there would be even less money to spend on improvements and we would have the nightmare of inept Prius drivers everywhere slowing everything down. Silsdenman

8:27pm Mon 5 Nov 12

the Laird says...

This has to be the worst mis-managed motorway "improvement"ever.
I drive this stretch of the M62 regularly, often at 11pm at night. Of course work is virtually non-exsistent at that time, the motorway is virtually empty, but the ridicilous 50mph average speed cameras still in operation, and if you stick to 50 you will certainly have trucks inches from your bumper and drivers door.
If the job had been sectioned off into smaller sections, rather than mile after mile of it that wasnt all being worked on at the same time, then it would have been much better.
And theres at least another year of this hell to suffer!
This has to be the worst mis-managed motorway "improvement"ever. I drive this stretch of the M62 regularly, often at 11pm at night. Of course work is virtually non-exsistent at that time, the motorway is virtually empty, but the ridicilous 50mph average speed cameras still in operation, and if you stick to 50 you will certainly have trucks inches from your bumper and drivers door. If the job had been sectioned off into smaller sections, rather than mile after mile of it that wasnt all being worked on at the same time, then it would have been much better. And theres at least another year of this hell to suffer! the Laird

10:01pm Mon 5 Nov 12

BigFigure says...

Silsdenman wrote:
BigFigure wrote:
Silsdenman wrote:
The whole thing is ridiculous, they have no regard whatsoever for the cost and inconvenience to travellers. A good way of making it safer or less dangerous would be to limit HGVs to the inside lane as they often hog both lanes because their speedos are more accurate than a car and so they travel at an actual 50 whilst cars are doing about 45. So they go into middle lane and when it is raining bthis causes an enormous amount of spray. Considering the rules we have to follow for health and safety in the workplace which is on the M62 for a lot of people, travelling on motorway roadworks is a way when everyone's lives are in real danger but the authorities don't care and will close the motorway for hours just to satisfy insurance companies.
They thank us for our patience but being forced to wait is not patience, we don't have a choice.
Not sure HGVs have "more accurate" speedometers than cars.....just that the drivers know you can get away with doing 55 mph and the cameras won't react....some of the worst driving on here is displayed by HGV drivers
Yes some of them are very bad and impatient drivers but their speedos are calibrated exactly for their tachographs whereas most cars read 10% more than their speed. Therefore a truck may well travel at 56 (their maximum) knowing cameras are probably set a bit higher and cars travelling at same speed would show 62(ish).

Fact is, they should all have to stay in the inside lane through these works and if they are stuck behind a car it's too bad.
Yeah...think that's what I was trying to say! Some pretty scary moments when lorries come hammering up lights blazing behind when you are doing 50 boxed in the middle lane.....
[quote][p][bold]Silsdenman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BigFigure[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Silsdenman[/bold] wrote: The whole thing is ridiculous, they have no regard whatsoever for the cost and inconvenience to travellers. A good way of making it safer or less dangerous would be to limit HGVs to the inside lane as they often hog both lanes because their speedos are more accurate than a car and so they travel at an actual 50 whilst cars are doing about 45. So they go into middle lane and when it is raining bthis causes an enormous amount of spray. Considering the rules we have to follow for health and safety in the workplace which is on the M62 for a lot of people, travelling on motorway roadworks is a way when everyone's lives are in real danger but the authorities don't care and will close the motorway for hours just to satisfy insurance companies. They thank us for our patience but being forced to wait is not patience, we don't have a choice.[/p][/quote]Not sure HGVs have "more accurate" speedometers than cars.....just that the drivers know you can get away with doing 55 mph and the cameras won't react....some of the worst driving on here is displayed by HGV drivers[/p][/quote]Yes some of them are very bad and impatient drivers but their speedos are calibrated exactly for their tachographs whereas most cars read 10% more than their speed. Therefore a truck may well travel at 56 (their maximum) knowing cameras are probably set a bit higher and cars travelling at same speed would show 62(ish). Fact is, they should all have to stay in the inside lane through these works and if they are stuck behind a car it's too bad.[/p][/quote]Yeah...think that's what I was trying to say! Some pretty scary moments when lorries come hammering up lights blazing behind when you are doing 50 boxed in the middle lane..... BigFigure

10:01pm Mon 5 Nov 12

lazybeat says...

dont forget to mention the deaths that have occured on that stretch.
dont forget to mention the deaths that have occured on that stretch. lazybeat

10:20pm Mon 5 Nov 12

octyvrs says...

Another Landless Peasant wrote:
There are just too many cars now in existence and this madness has got to stop. Crush the lot of them.
50 years ago people walked to a factory at the end of their street to work. Factory's no longer exist so people have to travel miles at all times of day and night to get to work to places of work not on public transport routes. We need our cars.
[quote][p][bold]Another Landless Peasant[/bold] wrote: There are just too many cars now in existence and this madness has got to stop. Crush the lot of them.[/p][/quote]50 years ago people walked to a factory at the end of their street to work. Factory's no longer exist so people have to travel miles at all times of day and night to get to work to places of work not on public transport routes. We need our cars. octyvrs

12:14am Tue 6 Nov 12

Shelfrhino says...

Silsdenman wrote:
Prisoner Cell Block A wrote:
The consideration for co2 emissions is a recent addition and an attempt to persuade people to drive more efficient and less damaging vehicles, it wasn't as part of the swtch from road tax to vehicle excise.
Yes but they don't reduce the amount and cost of traffic. If everyone got such vehicles we would have worse congestion as there would be even less money to spend on improvements and we would have the nightmare of inept Prius drivers everywhere slowing everything down.
Well said, I don't believe in all this reduced tax shizzle.
Why should I have to pay a fortune in road tax, just so some tree hugger in it's Prius can be exempt, whilst my car although hungry in town beats one of these heaps hands down on a long journey, Madness.
[quote][p][bold]Silsdenman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Prisoner Cell Block A[/bold] wrote: The consideration for co2 emissions is a recent addition and an attempt to persuade people to drive more efficient and less damaging vehicles, it wasn't as part of the swtch from road tax to vehicle excise.[/p][/quote]Yes but they don't reduce the amount and cost of traffic. If everyone got such vehicles we would have worse congestion as there would be even less money to spend on improvements and we would have the nightmare of inept Prius drivers everywhere slowing everything down.[/p][/quote]Well said, I don't believe in all this reduced tax shizzle. Why should I have to pay a fortune in road tax, just so some tree hugger in it's Prius can be exempt, whilst my car although hungry in town beats one of these heaps hands down on a long journey, Madness. Shelfrhino

6:29am Tue 6 Nov 12

Cooperlane2 says...

lol...I love my £10pa road tax.
oh, and did I mention 50mpg+ round town?
Most of the VED isn't spent on the roads anyway.
lol...I love my £10pa road tax. oh, and did I mention 50mpg+ round town? Most of the VED isn't spent on the roads anyway. Cooperlane2

9:35am Tue 6 Nov 12

billy8antam says...

angry bradfordian wrote:
collos25 wrote:
An exercise in how not to run a contract they come from all over the world to see how it should not be done.
What a fiasco and to think when its finished and the tolls are in place thats what the gantries are for the A roads surrounding the M62 will be even more clogged up.
What are your specific problems with the way the contract is run? It looks like every other roadworks I've ever seen.

Don't know why you think that tolls are going to be introduced. The same type of arrangement has been used around Birmingham for 4 or 5 years and the improvement in flows is amazing.
I agree with your comment ,as I regularly travel to Kidderminster and travel through the managed section of the M6 ,which works very well.
[quote][p][bold]angry bradfordian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]collos25[/bold] wrote: An exercise in how not to run a contract they come from all over the world to see how it should not be done. What a fiasco and to think when its finished and the tolls are in place thats what the gantries are for the A roads surrounding the M62 will be even more clogged up.[/p][/quote]What are your specific problems with the way the contract is run? It looks like every other roadworks I've ever seen. Don't know why you think that tolls are going to be introduced. The same type of arrangement has been used around Birmingham for 4 or 5 years and the improvement in flows is amazing.[/p][/quote]I agree with your comment ,as I regularly travel to Kidderminster and travel through the managed section of the M6 ,which works very well. billy8antam

9:58am Tue 6 Nov 12

Prisoner Cell Block A says...

Shelfrhino wrote:
Silsdenman wrote:
Prisoner Cell Block A wrote:
The consideration for co2 emissions is a recent addition and an attempt to persuade people to drive more efficient and less damaging vehicles, it wasn't as part of the swtch from road tax to vehicle excise.
Yes but they don't reduce the amount and cost of traffic. If everyone got such vehicles we would have worse congestion as there would be even less money to spend on improvements and we would have the nightmare of inept Prius drivers everywhere slowing everything down.
Well said, I don't believe in all this reduced tax shizzle.
Why should I have to pay a fortune in road tax, just so some tree hugger in it's Prius can be exempt, whilst my car although hungry in town beats one of these heaps hands down on a long journey, Madness.
Not considering the 'carbon footprint' of the Prius also. It uses Nickel in it's batteries and that is from Canada, which gets shipped to point of manufacture, the whole car then gets shipped from the far east to Europe, which overall will make the total emissions of one of these cars a darn sight more than a European built car which can be driven to a port or transported on a multi vehicle carrier
[quote][p][bold]Shelfrhino[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Silsdenman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Prisoner Cell Block A[/bold] wrote: The consideration for co2 emissions is a recent addition and an attempt to persuade people to drive more efficient and less damaging vehicles, it wasn't as part of the swtch from road tax to vehicle excise.[/p][/quote]Yes but they don't reduce the amount and cost of traffic. If everyone got such vehicles we would have worse congestion as there would be even less money to spend on improvements and we would have the nightmare of inept Prius drivers everywhere slowing everything down.[/p][/quote]Well said, I don't believe in all this reduced tax shizzle. Why should I have to pay a fortune in road tax, just so some tree hugger in it's Prius can be exempt, whilst my car although hungry in town beats one of these heaps hands down on a long journey, Madness.[/p][/quote]Not considering the 'carbon footprint' of the Prius also. It uses Nickel in it's batteries and that is from Canada, which gets shipped to point of manufacture, the whole car then gets shipped from the far east to Europe, which overall will make the total emissions of one of these cars a darn sight more than a European built car which can be driven to a port or transported on a multi vehicle carrier Prisoner Cell Block A

11:22am Tue 6 Nov 12

Silsdenman says...

Cooperlane2 wrote:
lol...I love my £10pa road tax.
oh, and did I mention 50mpg+ round town?
Most of the VED isn't spent on the roads anyway.
You're just not paying your way, simple as.
[quote][p][bold]Cooperlane2[/bold] wrote: lol...I love my £10pa road tax. oh, and did I mention 50mpg+ round town? Most of the VED isn't spent on the roads anyway.[/p][/quote]You're just not paying your way, simple as. Silsdenman

9:23pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Shelfrhino says...

Cooperlane2 wrote:
lol...I love my £10pa road tax.
oh, and did I mention 50mpg+ round town?
Most of the VED isn't spent on the roads anyway.
You may end up not spending much motoring wise , I assume you're skint. I can well afford to run my car, my point is why should we have to pay for all you weirdo's who actively think they are doing some good.
Also you may think you are paying a small price for your motoring, but the price you pay for having no cred is immeasurable.
[quote][p][bold]Cooperlane2[/bold] wrote: lol...I love my £10pa road tax. oh, and did I mention 50mpg+ round town? Most of the VED isn't spent on the roads anyway.[/p][/quote]You may end up not spending much motoring wise , I assume you're skint. I can well afford to run my car, my point is why should we have to pay for all you weirdo's who actively think they are doing some good. Also you may think you are paying a small price for your motoring, but the price you pay for having no cred is immeasurable. Shelfrhino

10:26pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Ian H 1971 says...

@ Shelfrhino

LOL! I cannot argue with what you have said and although I struggle to afford mine at the moment, I would rather die than have a 'tree hugger car' or any other 'Noddy Car' like many of the so-called Super Minis.
@ Shelfrhino LOL! I cannot argue with what you have said and although I struggle to afford mine at the moment, I would rather die than have a 'tree hugger car' or any other 'Noddy Car' like many of the so-called Super Minis. Ian H 1971

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