Bradford University student figures reduced by 10% (From Bradford Telegraph and Argus)

Thanks to the disgusting Tories and their ineffectual Liberal lapdogs, education is once more the reserve of those born with a silver spoon. A plague on both their houses.

A Casual Observer wrote:
Thanks to the disgusting Tories and their ineffectual Liberal lapdogs, education is once more the reserve of those born with a silver spoon. A plague on both their houses.

Good! There have been too many going to universities to gain degrees that are of no use to the world of commerce.

A Casual Observer wrote:
Thanks to the disgusting Tories and their ineffectual Liberal lapdogs, education is once more the reserve of those born with a silver spoon. A plague on both their houses.

You do realise that they only implemented recommendations outlined in a report commissioned by the previous, Liebour, government don't you?

A Casual Observer wrote:
Thanks to the disgusting Tories and their ineffectual Liberal lapdogs, education is once more the reserve of those born with a silver spoon. A plague on both their houses.

Remind me again: Which party was it that originally introduced tuition fees, despite the fact it wasn't mentioned in their previous manifesto?

Exactly what Albion says. Maybe people are thinking twice about doing expensive degrees in prestigious subjects such as peace studies.

A Casual Observer wrote:
Thanks to the disgusting Tories and their ineffectual Liberal lapdogs, education is once more the reserve of those born with a silver spoon. A plague on both their houses.

But then in many cases, you have a person upto his eyeballs in qualifications that really don't mean much (unless he's going to become a doctor/teacher etc,) and they can find someone who left school at 16/18 managed to get straight into the same field and has nearly 10 years experience in it already.

Rambo wrote:
Exactly what Albion says. Maybe people are thinking twice about doing expensive degrees in prestigious subjects such as peace studies.

I would have thought that in this day and age Peace Studies above all things is one of the most prescient of subjects one could study. If only it was a mandatory part of every school curriculum the world might be a better place.

Bone_idle18 wrote:

A Casual Observer wrote:
Thanks to the disgusting Tories and their ineffectual Liberal lapdogs, education is once more the reserve of those born with a silver spoon. A plague on both their houses.

You do realise that they only implemented recommendations outlined in a report commissioned by the previous, Liebour, government don't you?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the report Labour commissioned didn't technically explicitly recommend tripling fees, but it did recommend increasing fees as a way of increasing funding.

The Tories tripled fees so they could cut Higher Education funding by 80% to contribute towards reducing the deficit. It was a trade-off that left universities no better off, which wasn't the case under previous settlements since fees had been introduced. This is just my understanding though!

My understanding is that if we (Labour) had stayed in government we would probably have doubled them to £6,000 to help maintain Higher Education funding at a more reasonable level.

Also, you misspelt Labour. ;)

Albion. wrote:

A Casual Observer wrote:
Thanks to the disgusting Tories and their ineffectual Liberal lapdogs, education is once more the reserve of those born with a silver spoon. A plague on both their houses.

Good! There have been too many going to universities to gain degrees that are of no use to the world of commerce.

To helll with the world of commerce.

Rambo wrote:

A Casual Observer wrote:
Thanks to the disgusting Tories and their ineffectual Liberal lapdogs, education is once more the reserve of those born with a silver spoon. A plague on both their houses.

But then in many cases, you have a person upto his eyeballs in qualifications that really don't mean much (unless he's going to become a doctor/teacher etc,) and they can find someone who left school at 16/18 managed to get straight into the same field and has nearly 10 years experience in it already.

There's more to doing a Degree than getting a job.

Alex_Ross-Shaw wrote:

Bone_idle18 wrote:

A Casual Observer wrote:
Thanks to the disgusting Tories and their ineffectual Liberal lapdogs, education is once more the reserve of those born with a silver spoon. A plague on both their houses.

You do realise that they only implemented recommendations outlined in a report commissioned by the previous, Liebour, government don't you?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the report Labour commissioned didn't technically explicitly recommend tripling fees, but it did recommend increasing fees as a way of increasing funding.

The Tories tripled fees so they could cut Higher Education funding by 80% to contribute towards reducing the deficit. It was a trade-off that left universities no better off, which wasn't the case under previous settlements since fees had been introduced. This is just my understanding though!

My understanding is that if we (Labour) had stayed in government we would probably have doubled them to £6,000 to help maintain Higher Education funding at a more reasonable level.

Also, you misspelt Labour. ;)

No he didn't!

Alex_Ross-Shaw wrote:

Bone_idle18 wrote:

A Casual Observer wrote:
Thanks to the disgusting Tories and their ineffectual Liberal lapdogs, education is once more the reserve of those born with a silver spoon. A plague on both their houses.

You do realise that they only implemented recommendations outlined in a report commissioned by the previous, Liebour, government don't you?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the report Labour commissioned didn't technically explicitly recommend tripling fees, but it did recommend increasing fees as a way of increasing funding.

The Tories tripled fees so they could cut Higher Education funding by 80% to contribute towards reducing the deficit. It was a trade-off that left universities no better off, which wasn't the case under previous settlements since fees had been introduced. This is just my understanding though!

My understanding is that if we (Labour) had stayed in government we would probably have doubled them to £6,000 to help maintain Higher Education funding at a more reasonable level.

Also, you misspelt Labour. ;)

You are quite right, he actually said they should be no cap on fees, from BBC "Lord Browne's review calls for the £3,290 cap on fees, which students borrow in loans, to be scrapped.

Instead it proposes a free market in fees - setting out models of charges up to £12,000 a year for a degree course."

But, don't let the facts get in the way of highlighting Labours failings!

Depends on how you define failings - we got more numbers of working class students into university, so I wouldn't consider it a failing myself!

All education should be provided free of charge by the State, paid for via taxation. It is the fairest method. You who object to paying taxes can relocate to Somalia if you wish.

Don't suppose the gunfights at the Gt Horton corral will help recruitment

Alex_Ross-Shaw wrote:
Depends on how you define failings - we got more numbers of working class students into university, so I wouldn't consider it a failing myself!

they'd have undone all that when they acted on Lord Brownes report though!

A Casual Observer wrote:
All education should be provided free of charge by the State, paid for via taxation. It is the fairest method. You who object to paying taxes can relocate to Somalia if you wish.

do you pay tax? Is it actually fair?

the people who pay the most tax, generally get the least benefit from it.

Why should students have the privilege of higher education, but the school-leaver who decided to get a job or start a business not?

what about people who haven't been to uni and have no intention of having kids, should they pay for others?

I think the current system is fair, you don't have to pay the loans back until you reach a certain income, if you don't then they get written off after a number of years.

BTW, is there easy access for everyone to higher eduction in somalia? In fact, have you seen the list of countries that provide free post secondary education? there's not that many!

Bone_idle18 wrote:

Alex_Ross-Shaw wrote:
Depends on how you define failings - we got more numbers of working class students into university, so I wouldn't consider it a failing myself!

they'd have undone all that when they acted on Lord Brownes report though!

I'm afraid I can't remember where I read it (which is always irritating so sorry about that), but early indications are that the fall in student numbers has come from kids from middle class backgrounds, not working class ones, but I'm not sure if Bradford will share that trend. I'd be keen for the university to publish some more stats on it.

The abolishing of the EMA is something that will more certainly effect (affect?) working class kids more than putting up tuition fees.

You have never had to pay back your loan until you reach a certain income - I must admit I've never quite understood why the media continue to speak about that aspect as if it's a new one. I went to uni when fees were introduced and didn't start paying back my loan until I hit something like £17k a year.

the £9000 limit was supposed to be for TOP universities, not the second tier ones, but it seems nearly all decided that they could cash in and charge top whack!

If Bradford uni want more students, then they need to lower their prices and stop competing with the blue-chp uni's!

Albion. wrote:

A Casual Observer wrote:
Thanks to the disgusting Tories and their ineffectual Liberal lapdogs, education is once more the reserve of those born with a silver spoon. A plague on both their houses.

Good! There have been too many going to universities to gain degrees that are of no use to the world of commerce.

Why should a degree relate to the world of commerce?

allinittogether wrote:

Albion. wrote:

A Casual Observer wrote:
Thanks to the disgusting Tories and their ineffectual Liberal lapdogs, education is once more the reserve of those born with a silver spoon. A plague on both their houses.

Good! There have been too many going to universities to gain degrees that are of no use to the world of commerce.

Why should a degree relate to the world of commerce?

Because that is what we need.

Albion. wrote:

allinittogether wrote:

Albion. wrote:

A Casual Observer wrote:
Thanks to the disgusting Tories and their ineffectual Liberal lapdogs, education is once more the reserve of those born with a silver spoon. A plague on both their houses.

Good! There have been too many going to universities to gain degrees that are of no use to the world of commerce.

Why should a degree relate to the world of commerce?

Because that is what we need.

No what we need are well educated, critical thinkers who excel in their area of study.
If that has an economic benefit so be it.

allinittogether wrote:

Albion. wrote:

allinittogether wrote:

Albion. wrote:

A Casual Observer wrote:
Thanks to the disgusting Tories and their ineffectual Liberal lapdogs, education is once more the reserve of those born with a silver spoon. A plague on both their houses.

Good! There have been too many going to universities to gain degrees that are of no use to the world of commerce.

Why should a degree relate to the world of commerce?

Because that is what we need.

No what we need are well educated, critical thinkers who excel in their area of study.
If that has an economic benefit so be it.

Too often it doesn't.

Albion. wrote:

allinittogether wrote:

Albion. wrote:

allinittogether wrote:

Albion. wrote:

A Casual Observer wrote:
Thanks to the disgusting Tories and their ineffectual Liberal lapdogs, education is once more the reserve of those born with a silver spoon. A plague on both their houses.

Good! There have been too many going to universities to gain degrees that are of no use to the world of commerce.

Why should a degree relate to the world of commerce?

Because that is what we need.

No what we need are well educated, critical thinkers who excel in their area of study.
If that has an economic benefit so be it.

Too often it doesn't.

So at the University of Albion would there be an students of English, History, Art, Philosophy etc? Or would it be a Gradgrind Uni dealing solely with facts?

allinittogether wrote:

Albion. wrote:

allinittogether wrote:

Albion. wrote:

allinittogether wrote:

Albion. wrote:

A Casual Observer wrote:
Thanks to the disgusting Tories and their ineffectual Liberal lapdogs, education is once more the reserve of those born with a silver spoon. A plague on both their houses.

Good! There have been too many going to universities to gain degrees that are of no use to the world of commerce.

Why should a degree relate to the world of commerce?

Because that is what we need.

No what we need are well educated, critical thinkers who excel in their area of study.
If that has an economic benefit so be it.

Too often it doesn't.

So at the University of Albion would there be an students of English, History, Art, Philosophy etc? Or would it be a Gradgrind Uni dealing solely with facts?

Of course there would, I said "too many" not all.