Restaurant’s bid to beat smoking ban
A restaurant owner campaigning for the right to serve shisha pipes on his premises appeared in court accused of ignoring the smoking ban.
Markaz Restaurant and Shisha Lounge owner Shabbir Mer Ali wanted the case deferred yesterday because Bradford West MP Marsha Singh is calling for a Government debate on whether shisha lounges should be exempt from the regulations.
He claimed if the Government were to act then it would leave Bradford Council, the organisation bringing the prosecution, in an "embarrassing dilemma".
But Bingley magistrates said the trial should go ahead.
Mr Mer Ali and his wife Syima face three charges of ignoring the ban, which has prevented people lighting up in enclosed public spaces from July last year. If guilty, they could face fines of more than £5,000. They relate to failing to stop customers smoking on two dates in August and failing to display the required No Smoking signs since September.
Richard Winter, representing the Council, told the court there had been considerable thought by the Government prior to the law being introduced about which premises should be exempt - and shisha lounges were not included.
And he added that, in fact, the Council gave Markaz a grace period' of about two months.
He said: "It isn't disputed by Mr Mer Ali that smoking has taken place on the premises. But the court cannot create an exemption to the smoking legislation."
Two of the Council's environmental health staff gave evidence at the trial and spoke of a number of occasions they visited Markaz and saw people smoking shisha pipes - which gives off a mix of tobacco and charcoal smoke. Mr Mer Ali, who admitted instructing staff to continue serving shisha pipes, said he was part of a national campaign to Save the Shisha' and its lawyers had even written to the Council and other local authorities calling for them to delay prosecution while they attempted to call for a judicial review.
"It was not the intention of the Health Act 2006 to put businesses out of business. It was to protect the health of passive smokers," the court heard.
Outside court, Mr Mer Ali said: "If we do not win this case, it will be a victory for absurdity and a defeat for common sense.
"We allow smoking in the reasonable belief that the Government will either give shisha establishments an exemption, a concession or at the very least financial compensation for the loss of our livelihood. If we stopped allowing shisha it would be economic suicide for us."
The trial was adjourned and is due to continue on March 7.
10:29pm Thursday 7th February 2008
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CommentPosted by: Eddie D, Scotland on 10:39pm Thu 7 Feb 08
Shisha smokers and owners of Shisha cafe's and bars you are not alone in your fight against this ban.Visit http://www.Innthecol
d.com and also http://www.Freedom2c
hoose.info
Shisha smokers and owners of Shisha cafe's and bars you are not alone in your fight against this ban.Visit http://www.Innthecol
d.com and also http://www.Freedom2c
hoose.info
Posted by: mandy vincent on 11:20pm Thu 7 Feb 08
Why have the government forced this ban, yet pay no-one compensation? A blanket ban was NOT wanted by the majority, this ban is based on lies and misinformation.
8th August 2006 the HSE in the document OC 255/15 article9 state
for some strange reason hmm it has been changed to OC 255/16 Paragraph
14
" HSE cannot produce epidemiological evidence to link levels of exposure to second hand smoke to the raised risk of contacting specific diseases".
We need to get this ban amended to include ventilation,
freedom2choose.info -- need your support
Warning: Anti-tobacco activism may be hazardous to epidemiologic science
http://www.epi-persp
ectives.com/content/
4/1/13
http://petitions.pm.
gov.uk/smokinglicens
es/ ends in October 2008
These could do with some support please,
http://www.innthecol
d.com 1000 Pubs in 90 days, can you help with this one?
http://uk.youtube.co
m/watch?v=Bn6zye0nh8
w
http://uk.youtube.co
m/watch?v=mN-xDlsNXI
I Hamish Howitt Publican
Why have the government forced this ban, yet pay no-one compensation? A blanket ban was NOT wanted by the majority, this ban is based on lies and misinformation.
8th August 2006 the HSE in the document OC 255/15 article9 state
for some strange reason hmm it has been changed to OC 255/16 Paragraph
14
" HSE cannot produce epidemiological evidence to link levels of exposure to second hand smoke to the raised risk of contacting specific diseases".
We need to get this ban amended to include ventilation,
freedom2choose.info -- need your support
Warning: Anti-tobacco activism may be hazardous to epidemiologic science
http://www.epi-persp
ectives.com/content/
4/1/13
http://petitions.pm.
gov.uk/smokinglicens
es/ ends in October 2008
These could do with some support please,
http://www.innthecol
d.com 1000 Pubs in 90 days, can you help with this one?
http://uk.youtube.co
m/watch?v=Bn6zye0nh8
w
http://uk.youtube.co
m/watch?v=mN-xDlsNXI
I Hamish Howitt Publican
Posted by: World Nation, Bradford on 11:23pm Thu 7 Feb 08
Get a grip on your weakness to addiction and STOP SMOKING.
Get a grip on your weakness to addiction and STOP SMOKING.
Posted by: james, birmingham on 11:44pm Thu 7 Feb 08
12 million in the uk smoke. We are being DICTATED to by the government about how we socialise. Bring back CHOICE, there is no reason for people to be hanging about outside smoking when modern air management systems can remove more than 99% of all air pollutants.
freedom2choose.info
12 million in the uk smoke. We are being DICTATED to by the government about how we socialise. Bring back CHOICE, there is no reason for people to be hanging about outside smoking when modern air management systems can remove more than 99% of all air pollutants.
freedom2choose.info
Posted by: John, Bradford on 1:11am Fri 8 Feb 08
Labour need to make their mind up about the smoking ban.
The government pledged in their manifesto to allow smoking in bars and clubs not serving food, but that didn't happen.
In August 2007, my MP, Marsha Singh, wrote to me stating "There is no possibility at all, of this ban being reversed, partly because of the very strong health lobby." He is now asking for exemptions.
How about making a decision now, and allowing smoking and non-smoking establishments, or even separate rooms for each within individual bars and clubs, to keep everyone happy?
Incidentally, the "health lobby" are just that - there is no genuine scientific proof of any harm caused by passive smoke...
Labour need to make their mind up about the smoking ban.
The government pledged in their manifesto to allow smoking in bars and clubs not serving food, but that didn't happen.
In August 2007, my MP, Marsha Singh, wrote to me stating "There is no possibility at all, of this ban being reversed, partly because of the very strong health lobby." He is now asking for exemptions.
How about making a decision now, and allowing smoking and non-smoking establishments, or even separate rooms for each within individual bars and clubs, to keep everyone happy?
Incidentally, the "health lobby" are just that - there is no genuine scientific proof of any harm caused by passive smoke...
Posted by: World Nation, Bradford on 1:38pm Fri 8 Feb 08
I have no opposition whatsoever to smoking only venues, but then I wouldn't have to work in one. I also would never go in one.
Regardless of the health issues (inhale your smoke, then exhale through a white handkerchief for an indication of the poisons that you're pumping out, let alone what comes unfiltered from the burning end of your fags), smoking is now universally accepted to be a dirty and anti-social habit, and a return to having the noxious environments of the past inflicted upon us is never going to happen.
I have no opposition whatsoever to smoking only venues, but then I wouldn't have to work in one. I also would never go in one.
Regardless of the health issues (inhale your smoke, then exhale through a white handkerchief for an indication of the poisons that you're pumping out, let alone what comes unfiltered from the burning end of your fags), smoking is now universally accepted to be a dirty and anti-social habit, and a return to having the noxious environments of the past inflicted upon us is never going to happen.
Posted by: Mr T, Bradford on 2:35pm Fri 8 Feb 08
If the Law says ban then ban it. Nobody should be exempted from this. Sisha or ciggerates doesnt make a difference
If the Law says ban then ban it. Nobody should be exempted from this. Sisha or ciggerates doesnt make a difference
Posted by: albion, west riding on 4:26pm Fri 8 Feb 08
There wont be any going back whatever anyone says, infact the same laws will probably apply in all EEC countries in the next few years.
There wont be any going back whatever anyone says, infact the same laws will probably apply in all EEC countries in the next few years.
Posted by: John, Bradford on 4:58pm Fri 8 Feb 08
Almost a quarter of the population of this country smoke, and therefore I would assume they don't consider smoking "to be a dirty and anti-social habit". I would also assume that not all non smokers feel the same way either. However separate premises /rooms would accommodate those people who do not like smoking.
I would also suggest "what comes unfiltered from the burning end of your fags" is nothing in comparison to the diesel fumes around centenary square that come unfiltered from the back of cards vans and buses.
Finally, a lot of other EU countries do now have smoking bans - and except for Ireland all allow separate indoor smoking areas.
Almost a quarter of the population of this country smoke, and therefore I would assume they don't consider smoking "to be a dirty and anti-social habit". I would also assume that not all non smokers feel the same way either. However separate premises /rooms would accommodate those people who do not like smoking.
I would also suggest "what comes unfiltered from the burning end of your fags" is nothing in comparison to the diesel fumes around centenary square that come unfiltered from the back of cards vans and buses.
Finally, a lot of other EU countries do now have smoking bans - and except for Ireland all allow separate indoor smoking areas.
Posted by: Al Spade, Bradford on 4:58pm Fri 8 Feb 08
No exemption to the law, I'm afraid. No smoking means no smoking. Having said that I fail to see why pubs, clubs, etc cannot have a totally separate smoking area inside with no serving access to the bar. If smokers want a drink they will have to go to the main bar to get it thereby keeping bar staff away from the smoke. For the record, I do not smoke.
No exemption to the law, I'm afraid. No smoking means no smoking. Having said that I fail to see why pubs, clubs, etc cannot have a totally separate smoking area inside with no serving access to the bar. If smokers want a drink they will have to go to the main bar to get it thereby keeping bar staff away from the smoke. For the record, I do not smoke.
Posted by: born n bred, Bradford on 6:49pm Fri 8 Feb 08
the law is the law, whether you agree or not. personally i think it was badly concieved, and I don't smoke either.
But that said it is the law. Why make an exception for one venue over another. i would suggest that the Shisha finds another venue and builds a smokers terrace as a lot of other business have done. Or apply for cafe style status, put tables and chairs outside and use that area
the law is the law, whether you agree or not. personally i think it was badly concieved, and I don't smoke either.
But that said it is the law. Why make an exception for one venue over another. i would suggest that the Shisha finds another venue and builds a smokers terrace as a lot of other business have done. Or apply for cafe style status, put tables and chairs outside and use that area
Posted by: World Nation, Bradford on 7:21pm Fri 8 Feb 08
For centuries it was permissible to smoke in the presence of non-smokers.
Non-smokers suffered the stink in the air and in their clothes, irritation to their eyes, sore throats, burn holes in clothing, yellowing of anything that was touched by smoke and inhalation of poisonous chemicals throughout.
Any complaints were met with a shrug from smokers.
It's now unlawful. Get used to it and get over it.
Nobody should have to walk into a stinking smoke stained and smoke infected room after smokers have been taking their poison in order to clean up after them.
Smoking in a workplace is unlawful. No air conditioning or filter system can remove all the poisons from the air, they just give the impression that the air is cleaner.
Stay at home, invite your smoker mates round, break open a few tinnies and consider why the hell you're actively engaged in ending your lives early.
For centuries it was permissible to smoke in the presence of non-smokers.
Non-smokers suffered the stink in the air and in their clothes, irritation to their eyes, sore throats, burn holes in clothing, yellowing of anything that was touched by smoke and inhalation of poisonous chemicals throughout.
Any complaints were met with a shrug from smokers.
It's now unlawful. Get used to it and get over it.
Nobody should have to walk into a stinking smoke stained and smoke infected room after smokers have been taking their poison in order to clean up after them.
Smoking in a workplace is unlawful. No air conditioning or filter system can remove all the poisons from the air, they just give the impression that the air is cleaner.
Stay at home, invite your smoker mates round, break open a few tinnies and consider why the hell you're actively engaged in ending your lives early.
Posted by: born n bred, Bradford on 7:27pm Fri 8 Feb 08
totally agree with the above
totally agree with the above
Posted by: Eightieswiffy, Bradford on 6:29pm Sat 9 Feb 08
Good luck Markaz! Hope your fight suceeds and you get the law changed to pass exemptions - which is long overdue judging by the amount of businesses doing badly.
Bradford Council & HMG - please give non-smokers some credit! Why would they wiilingly walk into a shisha lounge knowing full well that it does what it says on the tin ie. smoking shisha pipes is happening on the premises. Non smokers do NOT need to be protected in this instance.... they simply would not go! The Markaz is a fabulous example of social cohesion in a city who has had bad press in the past. Long may it continue.
Good luck Markaz! Hope your fight suceeds and you get the law changed to pass exemptions - which is long overdue judging by the amount of businesses doing badly.
Bradford Council & HMG - please give non-smokers some credit! Why would they wiilingly walk into a shisha lounge knowing full well that it does what it says on the tin ie. smoking shisha pipes is happening on the premises. Non smokers do NOT need to be protected in this instance.... they simply would not go! The Markaz is a fabulous example of social cohesion in a city who has had bad press in the past. Long may it continue.
Posted by: albion, west riding on 12:30pm Sun 10 Feb 08
[quote][bold]Eightieswiffy[/bold] wrote:
Good luck Markaz! Hope your fight suceeds and you get the law changed to pass exemptions - which is long overdue judging by the amount of businesses doing badly. Bradford Council & HMG - please give non-smokers some credit! Why would they wiilingly walk into a shisha lounge knowing full well that it does what it says on the tin ie. smoking shisha pipes is happening on the premises. Non smokers do NOT need to be protected in this instance.... they simply would not go! The Markaz is a fabulous example of social cohesion in a city who has had bad press in the past. Long may it continue.[/quote] Yes and its trying it on! "good luck" no chance.
Eightieswiffy wrote:
Good luck Markaz! Hope your fight suceeds and you get the law changed to pass exemptions - which is long overdue judging by the amount of businesses doing badly. Bradford Council & HMG - please give non-smokers some credit! Why would they wiilingly walk into a shisha lounge knowing full well that it does what it says on the tin ie. smoking shisha pipes is happening on the premises. Non smokers do NOT need to be protected in this instance.... they simply would not go! The Markaz is a fabulous example of social cohesion in a city who has had bad press in the past. Long may it continue.
Yes and its trying it on! "good luck" no chance.
Posted by: Mazza, West Yorkshire on 2:14pm Tue 4 Mar 08
Everyone keeps going on as to why shisha smoking should be exempt but i found some interesting details from the World Health Organisation that the government has quoted on their reply to the e-petetion...[bold].http://www.pm.gov.u
k/output/Page12856.a
sp[/bold. [quote]"second-hand smoke from water pipes is a mixture of tobacco smoke in addition to smoke from the fuel, and therefore poses a serious health risk for non-smokers"[/quote]
Everyone keeps going on as to why shisha smoking should be exempt but i found some interesting details from the World Health Organisation that the government has quoted on their reply to the e-petetion....http://www.pm.gov.u
k/output/Page12856.a
sp[/bold.
"second-hand smoke from water pipes is a mixture of tobacco smoke in addition to smoke from the fuel, and therefore poses a serious health risk for non-smokers"
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