Get tough on benefit cheats says Shipley MP Philip Davies

Philip Davies MP

Philip Davies MP

First published in News by

Only three in every 100 benefit cheats convicted of stealing money from the taxpayer is sent to prison, MP Philip Davies has revealed.
Mr Davies discovered that the huge majority escape with a fine or community service and one in five walk away with a conditional discharge, according to official figures for England and Wales he has obtained .
And the Shipley Conservative MP said Government urgently needed to get a grip on the benefit system and judges must use their powers to show that swindlers will be duly punished.
He said: “Theft from the taxpayer is a serious offence and brings the benefits system into disrepute. It should be treated as seriously by the courts as it is by the public.”
Latest figures for 2012 show of the 7,101 cheats found guilty only 250 were sent to prison with the average sentence six months.
In addition 1,351 cheats were fined, 2,947 given community service and 1,447 given a condition discharge meaning they were let off as long as they abided by certain rules.
More than 1,000 were also given suspended sentences – all but walking free from their crime.
Last week Channel 5’s TV programme “Gypsies on Benefits and Proud” saw a 36-year-old father-of-three admitting he wanted to claim £40,000 in one year to build a house back in Romania.
Mr Davies said: “We are giving out the impression that it is easy to cheat the system in Britain.”
In response Justice Minister Jeremy Wright said: “The Government has introduced a tougher loss of benefit penalty to restrict benefits to people convicted of benefit fraud or who have accepted an administrative penalty.
“Judges make their decisions independently of Government based on the facts of each case. The maximum penalty for fraud is ten years in prison.”
A spokesman for the Department for Work and Pensions added: "Our fraud investigation teams work tirelessly to catch benefit cheats, and compile full information and evidence of the acts of these criminals so they can be prosecuted in court. We play no part in their sentencing – that's down to the judge."
e-mail: chris.tate
@telegraphandargus.co.uk

Comments (25)

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8:42am Tue 13 May 14

JAtkinson says...

Unsurprisingly, no comment on the £billions lost to tax dodgers which far, far, far exceeds any losses from benefit fraud.

How many MBEs, OBEs, Lords, Sirs, celebrity singers, comedians, radio presenters and assorted Tory donors have been locked up for their crimes?
Unsurprisingly, no comment on the £billions lost to tax dodgers which far, far, far exceeds any losses from benefit fraud. How many MBEs, OBEs, Lords, Sirs, celebrity singers, comedians, radio presenters and assorted Tory donors have been locked up for their crimes? JAtkinson
  • Score: 13

9:22am Tue 13 May 14

pcmanners says...

Mr Davies is a fine example of what a Conservative politician should be. Benefit cheats are no better than the people who rioted in Tottenham looking for 'free stuff'. It's just that they raid the state, not local shopkeepers. Benefit cheats should always be locked up for the first offence and denied all future access to any kinds of benefits.

I hope the next Conservative Government keeps its promises and stops all benefits. There wouldn't be any cheats then.

Being poor is a life style choice. If people can't survive without tax credits and housing benefit they should be made to go out and find a better job. The state shouldn't be expected to pay pensions, people should learn to save or suffer in their old age.
Mr Davies is a fine example of what a Conservative politician should be. Benefit cheats are no better than the people who rioted in Tottenham looking for 'free stuff'. It's just that they raid the state, not local shopkeepers. Benefit cheats should always be locked up for the first offence and denied all future access to any kinds of benefits. I hope the next Conservative Government keeps its promises and stops all benefits. There wouldn't be any cheats then. Being poor is a life style choice. If people can't survive without tax credits and housing benefit they should be made to go out and find a better job. The state shouldn't be expected to pay pensions, people should learn to save or suffer in their old age. pcmanners
  • Score: -16

9:26am Tue 13 May 14

Not so simple says...

Totally agree. Benefit cheats are an easy target for the governments of recent. I still want benefit fraud stopped but we must remember that the governments play with numbers and use benefits and unemployed persons as an easy visible target.

What about the billions if not trillions not collected due to tax avoidance as per advice of senior ministers as well as joe blog politicians. No MP wants to annoy his sponsors do they'

What about sending all the politicians who forget or make a mistake when claiming their expenses! Mr Davis, there would be a fair few persons from your party who'd get locked up.

Don't forget the various MP's including some Prime Ministers who use their insider knowledge and loop holes to assist their pals to avoid taxes....let's lock these people up.


Mr. Davis: if this is the level you stoop to get votes: you politicians are really out of touch with the public.

History will judge us all and politicians and too big too fail banks and corporations will be seen without the dirty skin of media protecting them from the truth.
Totally agree. Benefit cheats are an easy target for the governments of recent. I still want benefit fraud stopped but we must remember that the governments play with numbers and use benefits and unemployed persons as an easy visible target. What about the billions if not trillions not collected due to tax avoidance as per advice of senior ministers as well as joe blog politicians. No MP wants to annoy his sponsors do they' What about sending all the politicians who forget or make a mistake when claiming their expenses! Mr Davis, there would be a fair few persons from your party who'd get locked up. Don't forget the various MP's including some Prime Ministers who use their insider knowledge and loop holes to assist their pals to avoid taxes....let's lock these people up. Mr. Davis: if this is the level you stoop to get votes: you politicians are really out of touch with the public. History will judge us all and politicians and too big too fail banks and corporations will be seen without the dirty skin of media protecting them from the truth. Not so simple
  • Score: 12

9:31am Tue 13 May 14

Grumpygirl says...

Typical Tory. One law for the poor who cheat on their benefits, and another for likes of the rich Gary Barlow who cheats on his taxes. Why isn't Mr Davies calling for him to be locked up? Or even hand back his OBE? He has cost the state far more than any number of ordinary benefit cheats.

Tory Britain is all about inequality and unfairness.
Typical Tory. One law for the poor who cheat on their benefits, and another for likes of the rich Gary Barlow who cheats on his taxes. Why isn't Mr Davies calling for him to be locked up? Or even hand back his OBE? He has cost the state far more than any number of ordinary benefit cheats. Tory Britain is all about inequality and unfairness. Grumpygirl
  • Score: 20

9:35am Tue 13 May 14

allinittogether says...

Absolute nonsense Davies, custodial sentences should only be imposed on the perpetrators of violent crime the rest dealt with by community service, though stiff community sentences and everyone should know why these individuals are doing it.
Political grandstanding as usual.
Absolute nonsense Davies, custodial sentences should only be imposed on the perpetrators of violent crime the rest dealt with by community service, though stiff community sentences and everyone should know why these individuals are doing it. Political grandstanding as usual. allinittogether
  • Score: 2

9:35am Tue 13 May 14

allinittogether says...

Absolute nonsense Davies, custodial sentences should only be imposed on the perpetrators of violent crime the rest dealt with by community service, though stiff community sentences and everyone should know why these individuals are doing it.
Political grandstanding as usual.
Absolute nonsense Davies, custodial sentences should only be imposed on the perpetrators of violent crime the rest dealt with by community service, though stiff community sentences and everyone should know why these individuals are doing it. Political grandstanding as usual. allinittogether
  • Score: 0

10:04am Tue 13 May 14

allinittogether says...

pcmanners wrote:
Mr Davies is a fine example of what a Conservative politician should be. Benefit cheats are no better than the people who rioted in Tottenham looking for 'free stuff'. It's just that they raid the state, not local shopkeepers. Benefit cheats should always be locked up for the first offence and denied all future access to any kinds of benefits.

I hope the next Conservative Government keeps its promises and stops all benefits. There wouldn't be any cheats then.

Being poor is a life style choice. If people can't survive without tax credits and housing benefit they should be made to go out and find a better job. The state shouldn't be expected to pay pensions, people should learn to save or suffer in their old age.
Keep going pal that's just the sort of slavver that will ensure the Tories don't get in next time.
[quote][p][bold]pcmanners[/bold] wrote: Mr Davies is a fine example of what a Conservative politician should be. Benefit cheats are no better than the people who rioted in Tottenham looking for 'free stuff'. It's just that they raid the state, not local shopkeepers. Benefit cheats should always be locked up for the first offence and denied all future access to any kinds of benefits. I hope the next Conservative Government keeps its promises and stops all benefits. There wouldn't be any cheats then. Being poor is a life style choice. If people can't survive without tax credits and housing benefit they should be made to go out and find a better job. The state shouldn't be expected to pay pensions, people should learn to save or suffer in their old age.[/p][/quote]Keep going pal that's just the sort of slavver that will ensure the Tories don't get in next time. allinittogether
  • Score: 8

10:08am Tue 13 May 14

tanyaloolee says...

pcmanners wrote:
Mr Davies is a fine example of what a Conservative politician should be. Benefit cheats are no better than the people who rioted in Tottenham looking for 'free stuff'. It's just that they raid the state, not local shopkeepers. Benefit cheats should always be locked up for the first offence and denied all future access to any kinds of benefits. I hope the next Conservative Government keeps its promises and stops all benefits. There wouldn't be any cheats then. Being poor is a life style choice. If people can't survive without tax credits and housing benefit they should be made to go out and find a better job. The state shouldn't be expected to pay pensions, people should learn to save or suffer in their old age.
I wonder if this fine example would want all politicians who take backhanders from bookies which they fail to declare also locking up longer? What about expenses cheats? Or tax consessions? All of these are are dishonest and done out of pure greed. To be honest though there is little difference between benefit fraud and people accepting large amounts of cash from businesses for questions or tax concessions or expenses cheats they are all criminals in an honest persons eyes!

davis ought to have lived in the ww2 years in Germany with his views and I'd say a visit or two to a psychiatrist is in order too. This fat umpa lumpa is a hypocrite and a sick puppy and is no better than his father before him. No one likes a cheat regardless of which end of the scale they are cheating on. Also more benefits are lost through dwp error than through the 0.05% of fraud. Already the judges can imprison people for benefit fraud all Davis is doing is trying to fool voters into thinking he is doing something in order to gain votes. If he was really interested in upping the sentences he wouldn't have left it till the elections were looming he'd have got off his fat arrass and changed it in the first 3 years in office. Anyone voting for him or any Tories are useful idiots a bit like pcmanners with his hero worship.

As for bottom huggers like you manners everyone hates a creep who would say anything to please their master and your devotion comes across as sickly. Like a kid sucking up to the teacher. Tory scrum luckily won't be around much longer and then maybe we won't have to listen to Davis and his sickly followers with their deception and lies much longer!

What was you saying pcmanners? A fine what? The only thing fine is he's a fine one in a position to talk about any type of cheat. Another fine example of Tory scrum I'd say!
[quote][p][bold]pcmanners[/bold] wrote: Mr Davies is a fine example of what a Conservative politician should be. Benefit cheats are no better than the people who rioted in Tottenham looking for 'free stuff'. It's just that they raid the state, not local shopkeepers. Benefit cheats should always be locked up for the first offence and denied all future access to any kinds of benefits. I hope the next Conservative Government keeps its promises and stops all benefits. There wouldn't be any cheats then. Being poor is a life style choice. If people can't survive without tax credits and housing benefit they should be made to go out and find a better job. The state shouldn't be expected to pay pensions, people should learn to save or suffer in their old age.[/p][/quote]I wonder if this fine example would want all politicians who take backhanders from bookies which they fail to declare also locking up longer? What about expenses cheats? Or tax consessions? All of these are are dishonest and done out of pure greed. To be honest though there is little difference between benefit fraud and people accepting large amounts of cash from businesses for questions or tax concessions or expenses cheats they are all criminals in an honest persons eyes! davis ought to have lived in the ww2 years in Germany with his views and I'd say a visit or two to a psychiatrist is in order too. This fat umpa lumpa is a hypocrite and a sick puppy and is no better than his father before him. No one likes a cheat regardless of which end of the scale they are cheating on. Also more benefits are lost through dwp error than through the 0.05% of fraud. Already the judges can imprison people for benefit fraud all Davis is doing is trying to fool voters into thinking he is doing something in order to gain votes. If he was really interested in upping the sentences he wouldn't have left it till the elections were looming he'd have got off his fat arrass and changed it in the first 3 years in office. Anyone voting for him or any Tories are useful idiots a bit like pcmanners with his hero worship. As for bottom huggers like you manners everyone hates a creep who would say anything to please their master and your devotion comes across as sickly. Like a kid sucking up to the teacher. Tory scrum luckily won't be around much longer and then maybe we won't have to listen to Davis and his sickly followers with their deception and lies much longer! What was you saying pcmanners? A fine what? The only thing fine is he's a fine one in a position to talk about any type of cheat. Another fine example of Tory scrum I'd say! tanyaloolee
  • Score: 6

10:09am Tue 13 May 14

tanyaloolee says...

pcmanners wrote:
Mr Davies is a fine example of what a Conservative politician should be. Benefit cheats are no better than the people who rioted in Tottenham looking for 'free stuff'. It's just that they raid the state, not local shopkeepers. Benefit cheats should always be locked up for the first offence and denied all future access to any kinds of benefits. I hope the next Conservative Government keeps its promises and stops all benefits. There wouldn't be any cheats then. Being poor is a life style choice. If people can't survive without tax credits and housing benefit they should be made to go out and find a better job. The state shouldn't be expected to pay pensions, people should learn to save or suffer in their old age.
I wonder if this fine example would want all politicians who take backhanders from bookies which they fail to declare also locking up longer? What about expenses cheats? Or tax consessions? All of these are are dishonest and done out of pure greed. To be honest though there is little difference between benefit fraud and people accepting large amounts of cash from businesses for questions or tax concessions or expenses cheats they are all criminals in an honest persons eyes!

davis ought to have lived in the ww2 years in Germany with his views and I'd say a visit or two to a psychiatrist is in order too. This fat umpa lumpa is a hypocrite and a sick puppy and is no better than his father before him. No one likes a cheat regardless of which end of the scale they are cheating on. Also more benefits are lost through dwp error than through the 0.05% of fraud. Already the judges can imprison people for benefit fraud all Davis is doing is trying to fool voters into thinking he is doing something in order to gain votes. If he was really interested in upping the sentences he wouldn't have left it till the elections were looming he'd have got off his fat arrass and changed it in the first 3 years in office. Anyone voting for him or any Tories are useful idiots a bit like pcmanners with his hero worship.

As for bottom huggers like you manners everyone hates a creep who would say anything to please their master and your devotion comes across as sickly. Like a kid sucking up to the teacher. Tory scrum luckily won't be around much longer and then maybe we won't have to listen to Davis and his sickly followers with their deception and lies much longer!

What was you saying pcmanners? A fine what? The only thing fine is he's a fine one in a position to talk about any type of cheat. Another fine example of Tory scrum I'd say!
[quote][p][bold]pcmanners[/bold] wrote: Mr Davies is a fine example of what a Conservative politician should be. Benefit cheats are no better than the people who rioted in Tottenham looking for 'free stuff'. It's just that they raid the state, not local shopkeepers. Benefit cheats should always be locked up for the first offence and denied all future access to any kinds of benefits. I hope the next Conservative Government keeps its promises and stops all benefits. There wouldn't be any cheats then. Being poor is a life style choice. If people can't survive without tax credits and housing benefit they should be made to go out and find a better job. The state shouldn't be expected to pay pensions, people should learn to save or suffer in their old age.[/p][/quote]I wonder if this fine example would want all politicians who take backhanders from bookies which they fail to declare also locking up longer? What about expenses cheats? Or tax consessions? All of these are are dishonest and done out of pure greed. To be honest though there is little difference between benefit fraud and people accepting large amounts of cash from businesses for questions or tax concessions or expenses cheats they are all criminals in an honest persons eyes! davis ought to have lived in the ww2 years in Germany with his views and I'd say a visit or two to a psychiatrist is in order too. This fat umpa lumpa is a hypocrite and a sick puppy and is no better than his father before him. No one likes a cheat regardless of which end of the scale they are cheating on. Also more benefits are lost through dwp error than through the 0.05% of fraud. Already the judges can imprison people for benefit fraud all Davis is doing is trying to fool voters into thinking he is doing something in order to gain votes. If he was really interested in upping the sentences he wouldn't have left it till the elections were looming he'd have got off his fat arrass and changed it in the first 3 years in office. Anyone voting for him or any Tories are useful idiots a bit like pcmanners with his hero worship. As for bottom huggers like you manners everyone hates a creep who would say anything to please their master and your devotion comes across as sickly. Like a kid sucking up to the teacher. Tory scrum luckily won't be around much longer and then maybe we won't have to listen to Davis and his sickly followers with their deception and lies much longer! What was you saying pcmanners? A fine what? The only thing fine is he's a fine one in a position to talk about any type of cheat. Another fine example of Tory scrum I'd say! tanyaloolee
  • Score: 5

10:15am Tue 13 May 14

tanyaloolee says...

pcmanners wrote:
Mr Davies is a fine example of what a Conservative politician should be. Benefit cheats are no better than the people who rioted in Tottenham looking for 'free stuff'. It's just that they raid the state, not local shopkeepers. Benefit cheats should always be locked up for the first offence and denied all future access to any kinds of benefits. I hope the next Conservative Government keeps its promises and stops all benefits. There wouldn't be any cheats then. Being poor is a life style choice. If people can't survive without tax credits and housing benefit they should be made to go out and find a better job. The state shouldn't be expected to pay pensions, people should learn to save or suffer in their old age.
I wonder if this fine example would want all politicians who take backhanders from bookies which they fail to declare also locking up longer? What about expenses cheats? Or tax consessions? All of these are are dishonest and done out of pure greed. To be honest though there is little difference between benefit fraud and people accepting large amounts of cash from businesses for questions or tax concessions or expenses cheats they are all criminals in an honest persons eyes!

davis ought to have lived in the ww2 years in Germany with his views and I'd say a visit or two to a psychiatrist is in order too. This fat umpa lumpa is a hypocrite and a sick puppy and is no better than his father before him. No one likes a cheat regardless of which end of the scale they are cheating on. Also more benefits are lost through dwp error than through the 0.05% of fraud. Already the judges can imprison people for benefit fraud all Davis is doing is trying to fool voters into thinking he is doing something in order to gain votes. If he was really interested in upping the sentences he wouldn't have left it till the elections were looming he'd have got off his fat arrass and changed it in the first 3 years in office. Anyone voting for him or any Tories are useful idiots a bit like pcmanners with his hero worship.

As for bottom huggers like you manners everyone hates a creep who would say anything to please their master and your devotion comes across as sickly. Like a kid sucking up to the teacher. Tory scrum luckily won't be around much longer and then maybe we won't have to listen to Davis and his sickly followers with their deception and lies much longer!

What was you saying pcmanners? A fine what? The only thing fine is he's a fine one in a position to talk about any type of cheat. Another fine example of Tory scrum I'd say!
[quote][p][bold]pcmanners[/bold] wrote: Mr Davies is a fine example of what a Conservative politician should be. Benefit cheats are no better than the people who rioted in Tottenham looking for 'free stuff'. It's just that they raid the state, not local shopkeepers. Benefit cheats should always be locked up for the first offence and denied all future access to any kinds of benefits. I hope the next Conservative Government keeps its promises and stops all benefits. There wouldn't be any cheats then. Being poor is a life style choice. If people can't survive without tax credits and housing benefit they should be made to go out and find a better job. The state shouldn't be expected to pay pensions, people should learn to save or suffer in their old age.[/p][/quote]I wonder if this fine example would want all politicians who take backhanders from bookies which they fail to declare also locking up longer? What about expenses cheats? Or tax consessions? All of these are are dishonest and done out of pure greed. To be honest though there is little difference between benefit fraud and people accepting large amounts of cash from businesses for questions or tax concessions or expenses cheats they are all criminals in an honest persons eyes! davis ought to have lived in the ww2 years in Germany with his views and I'd say a visit or two to a psychiatrist is in order too. This fat umpa lumpa is a hypocrite and a sick puppy and is no better than his father before him. No one likes a cheat regardless of which end of the scale they are cheating on. Also more benefits are lost through dwp error than through the 0.05% of fraud. Already the judges can imprison people for benefit fraud all Davis is doing is trying to fool voters into thinking he is doing something in order to gain votes. If he was really interested in upping the sentences he wouldn't have left it till the elections were looming he'd have got off his fat arrass and changed it in the first 3 years in office. Anyone voting for him or any Tories are useful idiots a bit like pcmanners with his hero worship. As for bottom huggers like you manners everyone hates a creep who would say anything to please their master and your devotion comes across as sickly. Like a kid sucking up to the teacher. Tory scrum luckily won't be around much longer and then maybe we won't have to listen to Davis and his sickly followers with their deception and lies much longer! What was you saying pcmanners? A fine what? The only thing fine is he's a fine one in a position to talk about any type of cheat. Another fine example of Tory scrum I'd say! tanyaloolee
  • Score: 1

10:38am Tue 13 May 14

sorrow&anger says...

Oh no not again. Why is it when a Tory politician feels he isn't getting enough attention he issues a statement bashing benefit scroungers.

These following figures have been rehearsed many times, but, for the benefit of the slow, lets go over them again:

In the year April 2011-2012 £9 million was lost to fraud and error on JSA claims, or 0.3% of all claims. It's down in the noise.

Yet tricksters like Mr Davies keep saying fraud is running at 27% because the DWP published the figures saying fraud was 27%, omitting to say that it was 27% of the 0.3%. The remaining 73% was down to DWP error. What a scam!

Mr Davies also fails to mention that there was £16 million in unclaimed benefits which is nearly double the amount lost to fraud. He also conveniently neglects to mention that the Tories have written off over £500 million in their attempts to get universal credit working. However I can't see Mr Davies calling for Duncan Smith to be arrested and locked up.

Lets try and keep a sense of perspective.
Oh no not again. Why is it when a Tory politician feels he isn't getting enough attention he issues a statement bashing benefit scroungers. These following figures have been rehearsed many times, but, for the benefit of the slow, lets go over them again: In the year April 2011-2012 £9 million was lost to fraud and error on JSA claims, or 0.3% of all claims. It's down in the noise. Yet tricksters like Mr Davies keep saying fraud is running at 27% because the DWP published the figures saying fraud was 27%, omitting to say that it was 27% of the 0.3%. The remaining 73% was down to DWP error. What a scam! Mr Davies also fails to mention that there was £16 million in unclaimed benefits which is nearly double the amount lost to fraud. He also conveniently neglects to mention that the Tories have written off over £500 million in their attempts to get universal credit working. However I can't see Mr Davies calling for Duncan Smith to be arrested and locked up. Lets try and keep a sense of perspective. sorrow&anger
  • Score: 14

10:57am Tue 13 May 14

FinlandStation says...

Tory politicians never change, just the people they blame. It used to be trade unionists and immigrants, then it was single mothers and immigrants, these days it's the poor and immigrants. Since the war the Tories have been in Government for most of the time, so isn't it possible that some of the blame for the state the country's in lies with them.
Tory politicians never change, just the people they blame. It used to be trade unionists and immigrants, then it was single mothers and immigrants, these days it's the poor and immigrants. Since the war the Tories have been in Government for most of the time, so isn't it possible that some of the blame for the state the country's in lies with them. FinlandStation
  • Score: 11

11:00am Tue 13 May 14

Albion. says...

I see a lot of comments here about other examples of wrongdoing with regard to public money, ALL wrongdoers should have to face up to their crimes and one doesn't excuse another! I think quite a few people on benefits are so limp brained and uneducated that it is inevitable that they make mistakes, and that should be considered before they are sentenced or whatever. Those who have been proven to have deliberately cheated, should certainly be considered for imprisonment unless every single penny has been returned, in which case some form of community service would seem suitable, bearing in mind the cost of imprisoning them to the tax payer.
I see a lot of comments here about other examples of wrongdoing with regard to public money, ALL wrongdoers should have to face up to their crimes and one doesn't excuse another! I think quite a few people on benefits are so limp brained and uneducated that it is inevitable that they make mistakes, and that should be considered before they are sentenced or whatever. Those who have been proven to have deliberately cheated, should certainly be considered for imprisonment unless every single penny has been returned, in which case some form of community service would seem suitable, bearing in mind the cost of imprisoning them to the tax payer. Albion.
  • Score: 9

12:01pm Tue 13 May 14

pcmanners says...

FinlandStation wrote:
Tory politicians never change, just the people they blame. It used to be trade unionists and immigrants, then it was single mothers and immigrants, these days it's the poor and immigrants. Since the war the Tories have been in Government for most of the time, so isn't it possible that some of the blame for the state the country's in lies with them.
That's hardly fair. The Country has been in decline since the end of the second world war when the British public were mislead by the lies of the Socialist Labour Party into rejecting Churchill and setting up the something-for-nothin
g welfare state.

In order to make this country great again we must get rid of the cause of our weakness, the welfare state. No more free stuff. People must learn to be responsible not only for themselves but other people too. This is what Mr Cameron means by the Big Society. He doesn't talk about it too much these days, but it is clear that he is following his vision and will totally dismantle the benefit system as quickly as he can. Once people have to pay for their own education, health and save for pensions and periods of unemployment we will have a much healthier, Conservative, society, and the Country will prosper again.
[quote][p][bold]FinlandStation[/bold] wrote: Tory politicians never change, just the people they blame. It used to be trade unionists and immigrants, then it was single mothers and immigrants, these days it's the poor and immigrants. Since the war the Tories have been in Government for most of the time, so isn't it possible that some of the blame for the state the country's in lies with them.[/p][/quote]That's hardly fair. The Country has been in decline since the end of the second world war when the British public were mislead by the lies of the Socialist Labour Party into rejecting Churchill and setting up the something-for-nothin g welfare state. In order to make this country great again we must get rid of the cause of our weakness, the welfare state. No more free stuff. People must learn to be responsible not only for themselves but other people too. This is what Mr Cameron means by the Big Society. He doesn't talk about it too much these days, but it is clear that he is following his vision and will totally dismantle the benefit system as quickly as he can. Once people have to pay for their own education, health and save for pensions and periods of unemployment we will have a much healthier, Conservative, society, and the Country will prosper again. pcmanners
  • Score: -9

12:53pm Tue 13 May 14

allinittogether says...

pcmanners wrote:
FinlandStation wrote:
Tory politicians never change, just the people they blame. It used to be trade unionists and immigrants, then it was single mothers and immigrants, these days it's the poor and immigrants. Since the war the Tories have been in Government for most of the time, so isn't it possible that some of the blame for the state the country's in lies with them.
That's hardly fair. The Country has been in decline since the end of the second world war when the British public were mislead by the lies of the Socialist Labour Party into rejecting Churchill and setting up the something-for-nothin

g welfare state.

In order to make this country great again we must get rid of the cause of our weakness, the welfare state. No more free stuff. People must learn to be responsible not only for themselves but other people too. This is what Mr Cameron means by the Big Society. He doesn't talk about it too much these days, but it is clear that he is following his vision and will totally dismantle the benefit system as quickly as he can. Once people have to pay for their own education, health and save for pensions and periods of unemployment we will have a much healthier, Conservative, society, and the Country will prosper again.
It's about time you put your Biggles books away and grew up
[quote][p][bold]pcmanners[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]FinlandStation[/bold] wrote: Tory politicians never change, just the people they blame. It used to be trade unionists and immigrants, then it was single mothers and immigrants, these days it's the poor and immigrants. Since the war the Tories have been in Government for most of the time, so isn't it possible that some of the blame for the state the country's in lies with them.[/p][/quote]That's hardly fair. The Country has been in decline since the end of the second world war when the British public were mislead by the lies of the Socialist Labour Party into rejecting Churchill and setting up the something-for-nothin g welfare state. In order to make this country great again we must get rid of the cause of our weakness, the welfare state. No more free stuff. People must learn to be responsible not only for themselves but other people too. This is what Mr Cameron means by the Big Society. He doesn't talk about it too much these days, but it is clear that he is following his vision and will totally dismantle the benefit system as quickly as he can. Once people have to pay for their own education, health and save for pensions and periods of unemployment we will have a much healthier, Conservative, society, and the Country will prosper again.[/p][/quote]It's about time you put your Biggles books away and grew up allinittogether
  • Score: 3

2:40pm Tue 13 May 14

pcmanners says...

allinittogether wrote:
pcmanners wrote:
FinlandStation wrote:
Tory politicians never change, just the people they blame. It used to be trade unionists and immigrants, then it was single mothers and immigrants, these days it's the poor and immigrants. Since the war the Tories have been in Government for most of the time, so isn't it possible that some of the blame for the state the country's in lies with them.
That's hardly fair. The Country has been in decline since the end of the second world war when the British public were mislead by the lies of the Socialist Labour Party into rejecting Churchill and setting up the something-for-nothin


g welfare state.

In order to make this country great again we must get rid of the cause of our weakness, the welfare state. No more free stuff. People must learn to be responsible not only for themselves but other people too. This is what Mr Cameron means by the Big Society. He doesn't talk about it too much these days, but it is clear that he is following his vision and will totally dismantle the benefit system as quickly as he can. Once people have to pay for their own education, health and save for pensions and periods of unemployment we will have a much healthier, Conservative, society, and the Country will prosper again.
It's about time you put your Biggles books away and grew up
You may mock. It's all you Socialists are capable of. But the Conservatives are going to win the next election and they will make people rely on themselves. No more welfare state socialist feather-bedding. Everything will be privatised and people will either get a proper job and pay their own way, or go under.
[quote][p][bold]allinittogether[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pcmanners[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]FinlandStation[/bold] wrote: Tory politicians never change, just the people they blame. It used to be trade unionists and immigrants, then it was single mothers and immigrants, these days it's the poor and immigrants. Since the war the Tories have been in Government for most of the time, so isn't it possible that some of the blame for the state the country's in lies with them.[/p][/quote]That's hardly fair. The Country has been in decline since the end of the second world war when the British public were mislead by the lies of the Socialist Labour Party into rejecting Churchill and setting up the something-for-nothin g welfare state. In order to make this country great again we must get rid of the cause of our weakness, the welfare state. No more free stuff. People must learn to be responsible not only for themselves but other people too. This is what Mr Cameron means by the Big Society. He doesn't talk about it too much these days, but it is clear that he is following his vision and will totally dismantle the benefit system as quickly as he can. Once people have to pay for their own education, health and save for pensions and periods of unemployment we will have a much healthier, Conservative, society, and the Country will prosper again.[/p][/quote]It's about time you put your Biggles books away and grew up[/p][/quote]You may mock. It's all you Socialists are capable of. But the Conservatives are going to win the next election and they will make people rely on themselves. No more welfare state socialist feather-bedding. Everything will be privatised and people will either get a proper job and pay their own way, or go under. pcmanners
  • Score: -3

3:03pm Tue 13 May 14

Grumpygirl says...

pcmanners wrote:
FinlandStation wrote:
Tory politicians never change, just the people they blame. It used to be trade unionists and immigrants, then it was single mothers and immigrants, these days it's the poor and immigrants. Since the war the Tories have been in Government for most of the time, so isn't it possible that some of the blame for the state the country's in lies with them.
That's hardly fair. The Country has been in decline since the end of the second world war when the British public were mislead by the lies of the Socialist Labour Party into rejecting Churchill and setting up the something-for-nothin

g welfare state.

In order to make this country great again we must get rid of the cause of our weakness, the welfare state. No more free stuff. People must learn to be responsible not only for themselves but other people too. This is what Mr Cameron means by the Big Society. He doesn't talk about it too much these days, but it is clear that he is following his vision and will totally dismantle the benefit system as quickly as he can. Once people have to pay for their own education, health and save for pensions and periods of unemployment we will have a much healthier, Conservative, society, and the Country will prosper again.
Mr. Manners you are an opinionated Tory twit: you are also a wrongly opinionated Tory twit.

You've been reading the Daily Mail, again. The welfare state isn't 'free stuff'. We all pay for it with our taxes. (Except, of course, for the rich who hide their money abroad or come up with crooked wheezes to defraud the tax man.)

The idea behind the welfare state is the same as insurance. If we pool the risks and all pay into the fund then those who are lucky enough not to be needy subsidise those who do need care. As with all insurance, it's enlightened self-interest.

Apart from the minuscule number of benefit cheats, the problems come from the greedy rich who have cast covetous eyes on this pot of welfare money and demanded that it be privatised into their hands The Tories are only too pleased to help their rich mates, -- and make a few bob themselves. Forget the Big Society, this is the ideology of corruption.
[quote][p][bold]pcmanners[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]FinlandStation[/bold] wrote: Tory politicians never change, just the people they blame. It used to be trade unionists and immigrants, then it was single mothers and immigrants, these days it's the poor and immigrants. Since the war the Tories have been in Government for most of the time, so isn't it possible that some of the blame for the state the country's in lies with them.[/p][/quote]That's hardly fair. The Country has been in decline since the end of the second world war when the British public were mislead by the lies of the Socialist Labour Party into rejecting Churchill and setting up the something-for-nothin g welfare state. In order to make this country great again we must get rid of the cause of our weakness, the welfare state. No more free stuff. People must learn to be responsible not only for themselves but other people too. This is what Mr Cameron means by the Big Society. He doesn't talk about it too much these days, but it is clear that he is following his vision and will totally dismantle the benefit system as quickly as he can. Once people have to pay for their own education, health and save for pensions and periods of unemployment we will have a much healthier, Conservative, society, and the Country will prosper again.[/p][/quote]Mr. Manners you are an opinionated Tory twit: you are also a wrongly opinionated Tory twit. You've been reading the Daily Mail, again. The welfare state isn't 'free stuff'. We all pay for it with our taxes. (Except, of course, for the rich who hide their money abroad or come up with crooked wheezes to defraud the tax man.) The idea behind the welfare state is the same as insurance. If we pool the risks and all pay into the fund then those who are lucky enough not to be needy subsidise those who do need care. As with all insurance, it's enlightened self-interest. Apart from the minuscule number of benefit cheats, the problems come from the greedy rich who have cast covetous eyes on this pot of welfare money and demanded that it be privatised into their hands The Tories are only too pleased to help their rich mates, -- and make a few bob themselves. Forget the Big Society, this is the ideology of corruption. Grumpygirl
  • Score: 6

5:39pm Tue 13 May 14

tanyaloolee says...

pcmanners wrote:
FinlandStation wrote: Tory politicians never change, just the people they blame. It used to be trade unionists and immigrants, then it was single mothers and immigrants, these days it's the poor and immigrants. Since the war the Tories have been in Government for most of the time, so isn't it possible that some of the blame for the state the country's in lies with them.
That's hardly fair. The Country has been in decline since the end of the second world war when the British public were mislead by the lies of the Socialist Labour Party into rejecting Churchill and setting up the something-for-nothin g welfare state. In order to make this country great again we must get rid of the cause of our weakness, the welfare state. No more free stuff. People must learn to be responsible not only for themselves but other people too. This is what Mr Cameron means by the Big Society. He doesn't talk about it too much these days, but it is clear that he is following his vision and will totally dismantle the benefit system as quickly as he can. Once people have to pay for their own education, health and save for pensions and periods of unemployment we will have a much healthier, Conservative, society, and the Country will prosper again.
Oh no its at it again. When in an embarrassing situation blame someone else. The trouble with Cameron and his freaky followers dismantling our services it isnt what the majority want. Only the power hungry far right extremists like pcmannerless above. Only psychos like Hitler would watch the disabled and vulnerable starve and freeze to death out on our streets. Anyway they know they can't do that because of the European human rights act. You're talking bubbles as usual!
[quote][p][bold]pcmanners[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]FinlandStation[/bold] wrote: Tory politicians never change, just the people they blame. It used to be trade unionists and immigrants, then it was single mothers and immigrants, these days it's the poor and immigrants. Since the war the Tories have been in Government for most of the time, so isn't it possible that some of the blame for the state the country's in lies with them.[/p][/quote]That's hardly fair. The Country has been in decline since the end of the second world war when the British public were mislead by the lies of the Socialist Labour Party into rejecting Churchill and setting up the something-for-nothin g welfare state. In order to make this country great again we must get rid of the cause of our weakness, the welfare state. No more free stuff. People must learn to be responsible not only for themselves but other people too. This is what Mr Cameron means by the Big Society. He doesn't talk about it too much these days, but it is clear that he is following his vision and will totally dismantle the benefit system as quickly as he can. Once people have to pay for their own education, health and save for pensions and periods of unemployment we will have a much healthier, Conservative, society, and the Country will prosper again.[/p][/quote]Oh no its at it again. When in an embarrassing situation blame someone else. The trouble with Cameron and his freaky followers dismantling our services it isnt what the majority want. Only the power hungry far right extremists like pcmannerless above. Only psychos like Hitler would watch the disabled and vulnerable starve and freeze to death out on our streets. Anyway they know they can't do that because of the European human rights act. You're talking bubbles as usual! tanyaloolee
  • Score: 3

6:13pm Tue 13 May 14

awasteoftime says...

The benefit cheats most certainly must be punished if nothing else to send out a message that crime and cheating does not pay. However maybe prison at a cost to the taxpayers of £40,000 each prisoner is not good value, so lets wind the clock back and having either public stocks or maybe public flogging. This would not only be cheaper but more effective as well.
As a nation we are too soft on all crimes and maybe give a killer a 10 year sentence and then let them out in 5 years. If we only mean 5 years just say so.
Also we have cheating politicians but they claim it is within the rules so then it is ok. I wonder do these Politicians that cheat still claim a public pension ? Whilst I am not a fan of Islam at least their form of punishments via Sharia Law of wrong doers is tougher than ours.
With regard to those given Community Hours as anyone ever seen anyone doing community hours, I have not, I suspect they only work inside where it is warm with free drinks all day. Maybe people who have never paid into the system should not be able to take any benefits unless they do something for it.
The benefit cheats most certainly must be punished if nothing else to send out a message that crime and cheating does not pay. However maybe prison at a cost to the taxpayers of £40,000 each prisoner is not good value, so lets wind the clock back and having either public stocks or maybe public flogging. This would not only be cheaper but more effective as well. As a nation we are too soft on all crimes and maybe give a killer a 10 year sentence and then let them out in 5 years. If we only mean 5 years just say so. Also we have cheating politicians but they claim it is within the rules so then it is ok. I wonder do these Politicians that cheat still claim a public pension ? Whilst I am not a fan of Islam at least their form of punishments via Sharia Law of wrong doers is tougher than ours. With regard to those given Community Hours as anyone ever seen anyone doing community hours, I have not, I suspect they only work inside where it is warm with free drinks all day. Maybe people who have never paid into the system should not be able to take any benefits unless they do something for it. awasteoftime
  • Score: -1

6:29pm Tue 13 May 14

i'dliketosay says...

pcmanners wrote:
Mr Davies is a fine example of what a Conservative politician should be. Benefit cheats are no better than the people who rioted in Tottenham looking for 'free stuff'. It's just that they raid the state, not local shopkeepers. Benefit cheats should always be locked up for the first offence and denied all future access to any kinds of benefits.

I hope the next Conservative Government keeps its promises and stops all benefits. There wouldn't be any cheats then.

Being poor is a life style choice. If people can't survive without tax credits and housing benefit they should be made to go out and find a better job. The state shouldn't be expected to pay pensions, people should learn to save or suffer in their old age.
Being poor is a lifestyle choice! what utter nonsense. Society requires the bin man to the doctor, the check out assistant to teacher (politicians i'm not so sure). Benefits are needed to help those who need to make ends meet. If eveyone had your ridiculous attitude of just go get a better job, society would grind to halt as no one would do the 'menial' jobs and you'd be shifting your own rubbish.
[quote][p][bold]pcmanners[/bold] wrote: Mr Davies is a fine example of what a Conservative politician should be. Benefit cheats are no better than the people who rioted in Tottenham looking for 'free stuff'. It's just that they raid the state, not local shopkeepers. Benefit cheats should always be locked up for the first offence and denied all future access to any kinds of benefits. I hope the next Conservative Government keeps its promises and stops all benefits. There wouldn't be any cheats then. Being poor is a life style choice. If people can't survive without tax credits and housing benefit they should be made to go out and find a better job. The state shouldn't be expected to pay pensions, people should learn to save or suffer in their old age.[/p][/quote]Being poor is a lifestyle choice! what utter nonsense. Society requires the bin man to the doctor, the check out assistant to teacher (politicians i'm not so sure). Benefits are needed to help those who need to make ends meet. If eveyone had your ridiculous attitude of just go get a better job, society would grind to halt as no one would do the 'menial' jobs and you'd be shifting your own rubbish. i'dliketosay
  • Score: 7

7:48pm Tue 13 May 14

cockadoodledo says...

Calling the kettles black Phillip? Tell me what is the difference between a benefit cheat and an Member of Parliament fiddling his expenses? The MPs get a slapped wrist or a very short. stay in an open prison, perhaps the benefit cheats should have the same treatment? That would be fair wouldn't it?
Calling the kettles black Phillip? Tell me what is the difference between a benefit cheat and an Member of Parliament fiddling his expenses? The MPs get a slapped wrist or a very short. stay in an open prison, perhaps the benefit cheats should have the same treatment? That would be fair wouldn't it? cockadoodledo
  • Score: 6

8:40pm Tue 13 May 14

alive and awake says...

cockadoodledo wrote:
Calling the kettles black Phillip? Tell me what is the difference between a benefit cheat and an Member of Parliament fiddling his expenses? The MPs get a slapped wrist or a very short. stay in an open prison, perhaps the benefit cheats should have the same treatment? That would be fair wouldn't it?
The difference is there are only 650 of the MP's and not all of them did cheat, they also nearly always get caught in the end, then the punishment is huge by comparison. There are millions of benefit cheats, costing us far more, and even more still f we are to punish them adequately, work it out.
[quote][p][bold]cockadoodledo[/bold] wrote: Calling the kettles black Phillip? Tell me what is the difference between a benefit cheat and an Member of Parliament fiddling his expenses? The MPs get a slapped wrist or a very short. stay in an open prison, perhaps the benefit cheats should have the same treatment? That would be fair wouldn't it?[/p][/quote]The difference is there are only 650 of the MP's and not all of them did cheat, they also nearly always get caught in the end, then the punishment is huge by comparison. There are millions of benefit cheats, costing us far more, and even more still f we are to punish them adequately, work it out. alive and awake
  • Score: -1

8:59pm Tue 13 May 14

alive and awake says...

Grumpygirl wrote:
pcmanners wrote:
FinlandStation wrote:
Tory politicians never change, just the people they blame. It used to be trade unionists and immigrants, then it was single mothers and immigrants, these days it's the poor and immigrants. Since the war the Tories have been in Government for most of the time, so isn't it possible that some of the blame for the state the country's in lies with them.
That's hardly fair. The Country has been in decline since the end of the second world war when the British public were mislead by the lies of the Socialist Labour Party into rejecting Churchill and setting up the something-for-nothin


g welfare state.

In order to make this country great again we must get rid of the cause of our weakness, the welfare state. No more free stuff. People must learn to be responsible not only for themselves but other people too. This is what Mr Cameron means by the Big Society. He doesn't talk about it too much these days, but it is clear that he is following his vision and will totally dismantle the benefit system as quickly as he can. Once people have to pay for their own education, health and save for pensions and periods of unemployment we will have a much healthier, Conservative, society, and the Country will prosper again.
Mr. Manners you are an opinionated Tory twit: you are also a wrongly opinionated Tory twit.

You've been reading the Daily Mail, again. The welfare state isn't 'free stuff'. We all pay for it with our taxes. (Except, of course, for the rich who hide their money abroad or come up with crooked wheezes to defraud the tax man.)

The idea behind the welfare state is the same as insurance. If we pool the risks and all pay into the fund then those who are lucky enough not to be needy subsidise those who do need care. As with all insurance, it's enlightened self-interest.

Apart from the minuscule number of benefit cheats, the problems come from the greedy rich who have cast covetous eyes on this pot of welfare money and demanded that it be privatised into their hands The Tories are only too pleased to help their rich mates, -- and make a few bob themselves. Forget the Big Society, this is the ideology of corruption.
what utter tripe
[quote][p][bold]Grumpygirl[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pcmanners[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]FinlandStation[/bold] wrote: Tory politicians never change, just the people they blame. It used to be trade unionists and immigrants, then it was single mothers and immigrants, these days it's the poor and immigrants. Since the war the Tories have been in Government for most of the time, so isn't it possible that some of the blame for the state the country's in lies with them.[/p][/quote]That's hardly fair. The Country has been in decline since the end of the second world war when the British public were mislead by the lies of the Socialist Labour Party into rejecting Churchill and setting up the something-for-nothin g welfare state. In order to make this country great again we must get rid of the cause of our weakness, the welfare state. No more free stuff. People must learn to be responsible not only for themselves but other people too. This is what Mr Cameron means by the Big Society. He doesn't talk about it too much these days, but it is clear that he is following his vision and will totally dismantle the benefit system as quickly as he can. Once people have to pay for their own education, health and save for pensions and periods of unemployment we will have a much healthier, Conservative, society, and the Country will prosper again.[/p][/quote]Mr. Manners you are an opinionated Tory twit: you are also a wrongly opinionated Tory twit. You've been reading the Daily Mail, again. The welfare state isn't 'free stuff'. We all pay for it with our taxes. (Except, of course, for the rich who hide their money abroad or come up with crooked wheezes to defraud the tax man.) The idea behind the welfare state is the same as insurance. If we pool the risks and all pay into the fund then those who are lucky enough not to be needy subsidise those who do need care. As with all insurance, it's enlightened self-interest. Apart from the minuscule number of benefit cheats, the problems come from the greedy rich who have cast covetous eyes on this pot of welfare money and demanded that it be privatised into their hands The Tories are only too pleased to help their rich mates, -- and make a few bob themselves. Forget the Big Society, this is the ideology of corruption.[/p][/quote]what utter tripe alive and awake
  • Score: -2

9:02pm Tue 13 May 14

alive and awake says...

Grumpygirl wrote:
Typical Tory. One law for the poor who cheat on their benefits, and another for likes of the rich Gary Barlow who cheats on his taxes. Why isn't Mr Davies calling for him to be locked up? Or even hand back his OBE? He has cost the state far more than any number of ordinary benefit cheats.

Tory Britain is all about inequality and unfairness.
The Rev Flowers, Ed Balls, Tony Blair, 3 fine examples of the Labour Party.
[quote][p][bold]Grumpygirl[/bold] wrote: Typical Tory. One law for the poor who cheat on their benefits, and another for likes of the rich Gary Barlow who cheats on his taxes. Why isn't Mr Davies calling for him to be locked up? Or even hand back his OBE? He has cost the state far more than any number of ordinary benefit cheats. Tory Britain is all about inequality and unfairness.[/p][/quote]The Rev Flowers, Ed Balls, Tony Blair, 3 fine examples of the Labour Party. alive and awake
  • Score: -1

9:46pm Tue 13 May 14

Alhaurinrhino says...

Anyone convicted of benefit fraud should not be imprisoned at all, that would be just another expense for the taxpayer. What should happen is that anyone convicted of major benefit fraud should have all benefits stopped forever, including access to the health service, pensions and child benefit. A few well publicised cases and the message would soon sink in with the scrounging rabble.
Anyone convicted of benefit fraud should not be imprisoned at all, that would be just another expense for the taxpayer. What should happen is that anyone convicted of major benefit fraud should have all benefits stopped forever, including access to the health service, pensions and child benefit. A few well publicised cases and the message would soon sink in with the scrounging rabble. Alhaurinrhino
  • Score: 0

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